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Yang in V5:

Yang in V9:

“Man I sure love Blake and *looks at smudged writing on hand* …Rhubarb?”

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Hey, would you happen to have the template of this meme?

EDIT : THIS IS A MEME DO NOT TAKE IT SERIOUSLY (and seriously just don’t be Rude????? Like wtf lol)

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Ironic it says “sugar Marinette” when she actively chooses to lie to her boyfriend about how his Father was a super villain who tormented everyone, destroyed the world twice, put his life in danger a dozen times and actively beat him up after discovering his secret identity

And then makes him see him as a hero because Gabriel asked her to do it, she actively made him forgive and idolize his abuser to “don’t hurt him” when this will just make things worse when he finds out

"white man perpetuating cycle of abuse"

ironwood???? james "modeled after his asian voice actor" ironwood?

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So someone doing a move to prevent spy’s from a terrorist faction gives him more of the blame when someone instigates a riot, but when someone is actively commanding a group of bandits to attack villages to loot their supplies and leave them with almost nothing and probably will be eaten by monsters then that ones doesn’t have even half of the blame the previous one had

I understand disliking ironwood but Raven is factually a evil person, she might care for one or two people (one of them also being a bandit) her body count is far bigger and crimes are far more selfish and Ironwood’s

RWBY Fans:

Also RWBY Fans:

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The directors commentary:

Kerry: That was just like that’s absurd. Hmm. So it turned into this like, really.. you know I- I though it made a lot of sense for Watts to have this like, overly complex, like swiss army knife of like I have so many different, things he could do with it he could, you know put different d- different types of dust in it its f- along with his, his cool.. Tron rings.. and then of course Ironwood Ironwood now losing.. another part of his humanity. Get it?

Paula: (Chuckles).

Kerry: Oh man. I was.. I lost it.

Miles: (Laughs).

I guarantee you that most of the people who got mad about Ironwood's writing did not gave a fuck about his character until they realized they can use him as an excuse to get mad at The Females™.

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Also there’s Satan who’s been in Tartarus for hundreds of years, im not kidding

(Actually his name is Tirek but that doesn’t change much)

Also there was a Dragon ball Z like fight

And he blew up the MC’s house

This is a honest to god, good fight

Never watched My Little Pony but I found out something fucked up while I was on TV Tropes.

There's an episode where Luna has so much guilt for being a villain that she creates a magical force to mentally punish herself every night. In her own words "to make sure I never forgave myself for how much Equestria suffered because of me."

I have several thoughts

I thought MLP was lighthearted fluff. The fuck is this depressing shit?

I think the writers need therapy.

I feel called out.

I've heard some weird stuff about the fandom and Equestria Girls so it's a nice change of pace to find out the actual show is fucked up as well.

If you gave me a million guesses of what happened in MLP this would not be one of them.

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So

I was scrolling through my page and I saw something which made me reconsider some things about the FNDM (RWBY’s fandom)

For starters, I want to say i completely understand if you dislike the character of Adam for one or two reasons

You don’t like how he’s written

You don’t like how much overshadowed Blake in her debut

You don’t like his design (I personally hate the volume 4-6 design)

You don’t like his personality and think he’s creepy

You dislike his fans since some can be very aggressive

Etc etc etc

But please, if you genuinely believe the following statements, block me, don’t leave your comment and never try to approach me ever again, thank you

“Adam branded himself” and “Adam deserves to be one of the Schnee’s summons”

The first implies a minority branded himself with the name of a company which officially causes the death of minorities (leaving many orphans) for their negligence, are colonizers, and in the comics kidnap members of said minority to work on their mines…

So he could shit on them, their evidence? He’s not mentally stable and knows how to manipulate people

Do I have to discuss why this headcanon/theory is so dumb? I’ll do it just in case

Why would he cover the scar if he scarred himself on purpose? Remember, Adam wasn’t always a bloody murderer who wanted to radicalize the entire fang to make a personality cult but he genuinely wanted to fight back against humanity

And saying a minority branded himself so he could hate on the rich white men is… something.

And now for the later… I’ll give some small context

When a Schnee (for example Weiss) kills a foe which gave her a very big challenge (for example that Nevermore from volume 1) is added to a galley of creatures she can summon, she later on learns to summon the Arma Gigas from the White Trailer, the Boarbatusk & Nevermore from volume 1, the Queen lancer from volume 5, and a manticore from volume 6 (it only appears una film)

This have a certain degree of autonomy since they can act out of the users view, and we are never told is ONLY Grimm which are turned into summons since they only say “enemies” so any being could perfectly become a summon, okey?

Now here’s the thing

they’re Adam, who’s a ex-slave of the SDC and has Weiss name branded on his face, deserves to be turned into a summon which is literally Slaving his soul to work for a Schnee for the rest of eternity

They think enslaving a ex-slave is worthy punishment because he wanted to slave humans for enslaving him… they’re proving someone (who’s super racist against humans) right, because is fitting (their words) and I think they meant is karma/ironic

This Is not karma, is just continuing the cycle of Abuse and proving him right

He was a monster but he was one because he was abused for being a Faunus and ended up thinking all humans deserved to suffer for what he went through, making him into a Slave after death only proves his point

Slaving Adam like he wanted to do with humans for slaving him only proves him right, “humans only enslave Faunus so Faunus should do the same”

Thats’s inhumane, but since is done to him for hating humans then is somehow right?! Slavery is never right, and people who think enslaving others is a fitting punishment then they aren’t better than the ones who slaved them, because I don’t think I should be saying this since this is something obvious every smart human being should know but… SLAVERY IS BAD and NO PERSON DESERVES IT specially since Adam already was a slave

Kill him and burn his body to ass, but making his soul into a puppet is not the way to go

And before you say “oh, him being a child slave is a headcanon” please go read the CANON descriptions of the character in amity arena

“Adam Taurus used to gaze up at the sky with bright blue eyes whenever he could, between shifts in the dust mines, dreaming of the day he would leave the tunnels behind to find his place in the world. But what he found instead was himself... on the ground, staring up at the three letters that damned him now and forever.

Scarred. Despised. Cold. Adam's heart grows black, his hatred red hot. The final traces of love, the beauty he let go, never returns, and as the last petal falls, Adam is cursed to forever remain a beast. Because, in this tale as old as time, there is no happy ending.

In this story... HE is the monster.

Adam Taurus had finally found his place, and he would watch humanity... burn.”

And before you say “oh that’s just form his point of view” you should check his other description which clearly states he’s in the wrong

“With a scar on his face and anger in heart, a wayward boy looked for a home. When he found it... oh, how glorious it was. Accepted and loved, here was his happily ever after.

But Adam was cursed with a gift few others had.

Adam had... talent.

And when Wilt tasted humanity's blood...

Adam realized he was... STRONG.

Now king without kingdom, he wonders where it went wrong.

Coming up with excuses, reflecting the blame,

Coming to a conclusion, all find insane.”

The descriptions are obviously from a narrator and not the characters themselves, so I think the narrator is reliable to some degree and isn’t Adam at all…

I understand not liking a character, but people have to think about what they say since they usually end up saying very racist things like this.

Adam was a villain and a evil one, but dear god, people treat him like he’s worse than Salem and cinder combined

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Don’t forget how they used “loss of limbs as a metaphor for loss of humanity” with Ironwood, who’s already 50% prosthetics long before he loses his arm, and I think Adam’s scar was down for shock value since the SDC or any Schnee character is never faced by what their racism did.

Jacques isn’t arrested for Faunus exploitation, Weiss never finds out about it, we don’t know if they’ll ever mention SDC was a main colonizer of Vacuo, we don’t know Whitley’s opinion on Faunus or if he even has one

So revealing this company did things like marking a race of people like cattle and then doing nothing with it shows they only did it for the shock value of it!

lowkey the grossest thing about adam’s face reveal in v6 (outside of the. you know) is that it so blatantly plays into the “scary disfigured” trope that I see fucking everywhere.

Wow look at how ugly this guy’s face is. Look at how the whites of his eye has turned completely red. Look at that cataract, scary right? Look at how the whole brand & s carrying covers most of his face. Look at how jagged and grotesque it looks. Look at how squinted the eye is because of the burn. He doesn’t even have a second eyebrow anymore. Isn’t that scary?

The reveal is meant to shock you— but not in a “Oh, this guy was branded, that’s kind of sad” way, or even in a “Oh, this guy was branded, that’s kind of scary” way. The reveal is framed to be shocking in a “Oh, this guy was branded and looks dEfOrMeD, he’s kind of scary” way.

It’s a trope I see fucking everywhere. Characters with facial disfigurements/“facial differences” of any sort are 99% of the time used in media as villains who are “more horrific” because of their faces.

I think there’s genuinely one piece of media that has a main character with a facial difference who isn’t either a villain or is portrayed as being “tragically misunderstood” by the narrative (sorry elephant man) and

it’s a kids book. A really good kids book, but a kids book. (said kids book also has one of the few small yet positive representations of tourettes but that’s uhhhh not the point. I just wanted to mention it. Yeah. Wonder should be mandatory reading tbh)

But back on topic. The reveal of Adam’s face is narratively framed as something to make him more evil and scary then he already is. It’s not enough to have him just be an arrogant asshole— let’s give him a purposefully “grotesque” and “discomforting” facial scarring that comes with the implication that he got it while in slavery. And let’s be sure to put in lots and lots of detail when we model it on.

That’ll sure make him more hatable!

For a show that’s been promoted as being “subversive” and not following many common themes seen in media… it sure goes out of its way to make sure a bunch of that media’s worst tropes get included in its narrative.

It’s disappointing.

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thus falling into that Nintendo-style hole of making something no one asked for and then wondering why it didn't sell

I have never seen Nintendo every do that… except for Paper Mario, and even then they still sold very well since the fans kept hoping to go back to the past game styles

Why RWBY can't come back

The last news we got of RWBY was all the way back in July, when it was acquired by VIZ Media.

This much serves as a hard letdown for anyone who was hoping Dillon Goo and his studio could acquire the property, as VIZ Media is owned by freaking Shueisha, aka the guys who run Shonen Jump. It is unlikely to be sold back to a smaller studio.

VIZ Media buying it was a baffling choice to begin with, as RWBY isn't nearly as eternally-profitable as some of the other ventures it's been focusing on, such as Bleach and animating its Thousand Year Blood War arc. I suppose RWBY doesn't make for an ill fit when considering that it can simply languish on a shelf generating endless merch sales at a slow but steady pace over the years--VIZ Media is in charge of many, many series, and all of its biggest properties are surrounded by a haze of particle-sized smaller properties whose only real purpose is to add to the cumulative money flow in towards the studio.

But it does mean that Volume 10 of RWBY, in sharp contrast to what diehards crowed about when the acquisition was announced, is almost certainly not coming. VIZ Media's main practice is taking control of works that start in serialization form, usually manga, and adapting them, not generating whole new content. If VIZ Media even did feel like continuing the RWBY Saga, it would depend on:

other writers being welcomed into the room, because VIZ Media is a large corporation and is very unlikely to adhere to any fandomized purist idea that only Miles and Kerry should write for it and be credited with it,

other writers actually wanting to be associated with a series that is so badly stigmatized on the internet now. If you're Rooster Teeth, it won't be hard, you can pick from a pool of fans who will sell their souls to do so (and who cares about any quality), but VIZ wouldn't even glance in the direction of a tactic like that.

And if so, there's no real telling what it would look like, which is the axe coming down for the remaining RWBY fanbase, who are volatile and hostile and protective of what they think RWBY should be (i.e., Miles and Kerry). If VIZ Media is stupid, they'll plow ahead with this anyway, generating almost no profit because RWBY's tiny remaining fandom won't associate with it and RWBY's very large ex-fandom also isn't interested in it, thus falling into that Nintendo-style hole of making something no one asked for and then wondering why it didn't sell.

It would be much more in line with VIZ' profit-lined goals to maximize the revenue trickling into RWBY with another spinoff series like Ice Queendom or the manga series, which won't actually advance the story forward but will sate people expecting a Volume 10 at some point and merely needing any form of content to assure themselves it's inevitably coming.

Unfortunately, that means RWBY as a rebooted series with actual writers is also probably off the table, because VIZ Media are unlikely to do something they view as risky even if they think profit could be generated from it; the safer option is the trickle rather than hoping to strike a renewed spirit in fans.

And so RWBY is very likely to have the ultimate fate that I had naively thought we'd avoided back in May: spinning its wheels on the shelf of anime limbo for eternity rather than rebooting or dying peacefully.

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1-I complete understand why someone could be embarrassed of liking something, it could be because is badly seen for a person to like it (is for nerds) is badly seen someone of certain race of gender to like it (like when people insulted boys for liking girl shows, which I’ve been a target of) and because some people don’t like talking about their hobbies

2-RWBY doesn’t have a good reputation online, and is not because “popular = bad” since RWBY has been niche for years and its current relevance in pop culture is almost unnoticeable

RWBY has many controversies through its story which are related to one thing, it’s awful parent company, rooster teeth was many things but a d good company was not

They underpaid everyone, let harassment go wild in the office, let their big name have enough money to buy cars and go on planes, messy management in every aspect of every show (specially RWBY which since day 1 has barely been any plan into it since things like the maidens are last minute additions and characters like Neo just exist because they liked a girl’s cosplay of Roman and couldn’t find a voice actor so she came to be, she’s not mute because the writers wanted but because they never found a voice actress with how sudden her apparition was)

After the fiasco of Gen:lock which got Roman’s actor out of Rooster teeth and spending dozens of dozens of bucks in a movie quality series which was just fine before its second season killed most of the good will people had on rooster teeth for being everything wrong about a show and sequel

And I haven’t even talked about the things RWBY did to gain a bad reputation, the bad animation of the first seasons isn’t a good enough reason although the corny and weird writing was really a bit not many could take for long, but the great designs, music, fights and promises of much better things kept the fandom happy

The problems came when the show went on and most fans didn’t like what was happening, characters getting fridge, concepts being abandoned, confusing use of the characters and their stories with a “game of thrones” style writing the writers admitted to take inspiration from, characters arcs most didn’t like, fight scene quality dropping dramatically (rest in peace, Monty) and things fans actually found downright awful like the use of heavy topics which weren’t perfectly handled

Then the fandom… people like canonseeker made most people neutral to RWBY gain a certain amount of dislike towards the franchise (if someone so delusional and obsessive is a fan of this, then I don’t want to be near it) and I know there’s some haters which have no reason but the fandom is aggressive with haters who just hate and people with actual criticism (They tried to ban me from r/rwby for just saying a scene didn’t make much sense to me despite me having 16 upvotes)

I don’t think a person should be ashamed of liking something, but I can UNDERSTAND why they are ashamed of liking something since they are probably hiding from the drama surrounding this show

I am so sick of people, even people who claim to like the show, who act embarrassed or have to make excuses for liking RWBY.

I don't understand that mentality one bit.

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Gatekeeping is so good and important

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I want to add something I’ve seen a lot of people argue and became a very common fake information to hear in the fandom “Ironwood betrayed Ozpin’s and got him kicked out of the Security staff so he could take over and do a military occupation”

But this is false, the show only says they read Ironwood’s report and fans conclude he probably talked bad about Ozpin, but is not like that’s on character (even in volume 7 he seems to hold Ozpin on high regard) and he didn’t even had to change anything to make Ozpin sound bad if you think about it

“The day ## of ## of the year #### Headmaster Ozpin authorized a trip to mountain Glenn under the suspect of white fang activity in it

The operation sent the first year students Ruby rose, Weiss Schnee, Blake Belladonna and Yang Xiao Long supervised by Professor Bartholomew Oobleck (they also seem to have brought a unauthorized animal, a corgi which has been the family pet of the Rose/Xiao long family for # years)

The student Ruby rose Accidentally found the white fang installations after separating from the group, she then was captured and brought to Roman Torchwick, her escape (according to Roman’s interview) was what caused him to start their attack previously

The plan of the white fang was using bombs made from the dust Torchwick stole the last months to make tunnels to the surface to drag Grimm into the tunnel while the locomotive was used as a battering ram to open way for the Grimm into Vale’s capital city

The group successfully took out several white fang members and incapacitated Torchwick but failed the stop the train and The Grimm broke into the city and cornered the students which tried to push back the attack

before the situation escalated all huntsman (including students) and my army present in the zone were successful at closing the breach and exterminating all Grimm without any other damages

Roman torchwick was apprehended by Emerald Sustrai and Mercury Black, and is currently held in one of the cells in my main battleship” (or something along this lines)

By all accounts Ozpin’s plan was a mess, not bad but not very good either since GRIMM broke into the city and attacked civilians

Also I see a lot of people saying it was a “military occupation” but I don’t think they understand what that means (temporary hostile control and possession of hostile territory that enables an invading nation to establish military government against an enemy or martial law against rebels or insurrectionists in its own territory) since Ironwood was the one bringing the amity colosseum (which obviously needed protection to travel through the world) and seemingly wasn’t against what the council wanted since they later on make him the head of security for the festival (actually I think we hear and see people applauding the presentation of Atlasian Knight’s, in vale)

For all things considered it was a military support (the assistance provided by a foreign country's armed forces to another country during times of conflict) made because Vale has gotten a rather large amount of terrorist attacks lately and just heard Salem (basically the devil but he has tangible proof it exists) could be involved

Was Ironwood out of character during volume 8?

Now, this is going to be a bit, wild. This subject have been talked already, but, I think I can give my grain of salt. Let's start. 1. No, he always was sinister.

Since the beginning we could have say that we saw his paranoia. Bringing his army just because a message of Qrow.

"The queen has pawns".

That despite the fear that would bring Grimm. "It's the Vytal Festival. A time to celebrate unity and peace. So I suggest that you not scare people by transporting hundreds of soldiers halfway across the continent."

Even during the Vytal Festival, Ozpin mentions again that that fear would bring the Grimm. "And fear will bring the Grimm. A guardian is a symbol of comfort. But an army is a symbol of conflict. There's an energy in the air now, a question in the back of everyone's minds... "If this is the size of our defenses, then what is it we're expecting to fight?""

So, he doesn't care about the Grimm attacking Vale civilians.

Other matter. We can say he doesn't care about the faunus. He have two seats in the council and never did anything to stop Jacques Schnee and his faunus oppression.

"So, our kingdom's greatest minds, in cooperation with the Schnee Dust Company, are proud to introduce... the Atlesian Paladin!"

He cooperated with them. And never attempted to stop their exploitation. He have 2/5 of the political power in the kingdom.

Nor he have stopped the SDC colonization of Vacuo. This is not something that happened before the Great War, this is something recent as the SDC was created by Nicolas after the war, and since Jacques assumed power, the things have gone even worse.

And even Marrow admits that the law is not equal.

"The law isn't perfect, you know. It's certainly not equal."

"Trust me, I'm well aware."

Later, we have also the fact that he didn't cared too much about Mantle.

The Grimm entered in Mantle during the first episode. And the defenses weren't enough. This is something even pointed out by the characters.

"I guess the city defenses aren't doing much."

"Somehow, that doesn't surprise me."

This wasn't only done by the writers to make a fight scene where Ruby's group show off. It establishes a fact, that ironwood doesn't care about its people.

Think about it, he left them to die.

He also put the close of borders and the embargo, even when that only provoked discomfort in the kingdom.

There is also the fact that he didn't upgraded the security network in Mantle. Consider that the Atlas technology have been previously hacked, so he really needed to upgrade the system.

"Well, if we're dealing with the same enemy from Beacon, hacking into Mantle's system would be easy. Fortunately, the rest of Atlas is running on an upgraded network."

There is also the fact that he haven't been acting legal all this time.

"Yes, which is exactly why we have checks and balances."

"We're supposed to, but lately you've been running roughshod all over them, making unilateral decisions without us."

And let's no forget about how he was willing to declare the martial law. Let's consider that it would only bring more negativity and therefore attract Grimm. Yes, it was to unite the world and restore global communications, but it was at the cost of Mantle.

"What's more important? Establishing communications, unite the world? Or appeasing a few city blocks?"

He only refers to them as "a few city blocks". Nothing more, nothing less.

That and the fact that he was willing to left Mantle to die during As above, so below.

"What we need is to start evacuating Mantle. If it's completely overrun, it's not going to be safe anywhere. Use the fleet to get--"

"If I move the fleet, then Atlas is vulnerable. I… I tried to keep the kingdom safe. And now we're losing everything."

He could have used the fleet to evacuate Mantle to Atlas, but initially he refused because he prioritized Atlas. The city was without heating, and the Grimm have launched an invasion. If he didn't do something, everyone were going to die. Ironwood was already ready to left them to die.

And let's not forget about how he outright admitted that he would be leaving Mantle to die.

"But we're nowhere near finished evacuating everyone! You'd be leaving Mantle to die."

"Yes… I would."

So, if he was already willing to leave Mantle to die, why would it be weird that he threaten to nuke Mantle? Is so different leaving Mantle to die and nuke it?

2. Yes, he was originally a good person.

Despite Ozpin's claims that bringing his army would attract Grimm. At the end, the citizens of Vale weren't afraid, and no Grimm was attracted to the city. I mean, there were Grimm attracted to the city, just not because of the Atlas military... it was because of Cinder's plans and actions.

And, what's more, he used his army to protect the citizens of Vale. He later bring even more troops because he wanted to protect Vale. Of course, he didn't know his army was going to be hacked.

Even during the battle of Beacon, he and his troops fought along the students against the Grimm and the hacked atlesian robots.

He later closed the borders and made the embargo because he needed to make sure no one infiltrates inside the kingdom.

"I needed to ensure Salem couldn't infiltrate Atlas. And I wanted my military here, protecting my people."

His plan of Amity wasn't only to benefit Atlas city, but also to unify the world and joined defeat Salem. He also planned to use his military to help the rest of the world.

"But everything will fall apart. Grimm will be everywhere!"

"You're right, but Atlas is willing and prepared to assist."

According to this card of RWBY Arrowfell, Ironwood is someone willing to help all of the world, not only Atlas.

Other characters have also mentioned about Ironwood's willingness to help the whole world.

"A new communications tower. He's trying to help... everyone."

"I used to think you were hiding something to protect yourself. But I can tell there's something much bigger going on here. Now I think it's to protect something else. Us… Atlas, maybe even all of Remnant. And you're afraid of what might happen if you tell the truth."

There is also the fact that he attempted to protect Mantle. He put soldiers and Atlesian knights. Forces in charge of defending the city. They, along the small manta ships and Penny. Penny isn't there just because she is a robot, as there are also human soldiers there.

He also acknowledge the problems in Mantle and wanted Ruby's group to help down in Mantle.

"No. No, you're right. Things in Mantle have been... hard to manage lately. I'm not blind to its issues. In fact, that's what I want to talk to you about. With the launch of this mobile communications tower and tensions down in Mantle, I think there's a lot of good your teams can do here."

And, there are some missions on the mission board to help Mantle.

"We need someone to escort children to pre-primary school down in Mantle. There's not actually any danger, but the parents fret, and that attracts Grimm."

"A massive Sabyr is loose in the Mantle sewers! We need two brave warriors to flush it out!"

The military, and Ironwood since he is the head of it, was worried about Grimm being attracted to Mantle, and Grimm being a threat to the people of the Mantle.

Later, Ren and Nora were assigned to protect the wall on Mantle.

"Diverting all construction resources to Amity Tower means there are going to be gaps in Mantle's defenses against Grimm. They'll need help on the perimeter."

"But there's still plenty to do in Mantle itself."

Yes, they are helping because of the lack of Mantle defenses. But, they were there ALSO because the military wanted them there, not only protecting Amity tower.

Ironwood also was someone willing to participate in the debates of the council. Of course, it made him mad, but at the end, he was willing to comply.

"I swear if I have to sit through one more council meeting like that…"

"Actually, I've already informed them. As this is now the site of a classified military operation, it didn't even require a vote."

"My father's first act. We've all been invited to dinner where the General will be defending his seat on the Council."

Ironwood was anyway willing to go to a meeting with the council, instead of simply shooting everyone who opposed him.

We also have the fact that, despite initially not being willing to use his fleet to evacuate Mantle, at the end, he was willing to help them.

"All we can do for the moment is what we can to save Mantle. That's what's in front of us."

Ironwood was willing to help Mantle and even focus on it, even after knowing that Salem was immortal. At the end, while he was willing to abandon Mantle, it was because he thought that Mantle couldn't be saved. And that even Salem wanted him to evacuate Mantle to Atlas.

"How do we know they didn't want us to bring people into Atlas by the thousands?"

"We are saving who we can." So, if Ironwood did care about Mantle, but only abandoned the city because he thought that it was Salem's plan... Then, it doesn't makes sense that he later tries to nuke it. Even when he already left Mantle to die. It's different abandoning the city than being the one who pulls the trigger. He was willing to help Mantle till he thought he couldn't anymore. 3. In conclusion. There are two perspectives about it. I think that both perspectives have their pros and cons. I'm not here to tell you which interpretation is correct.

Whether the volume 8 was well written around Ironwood's character, or not. Some might consider his fall into villainy something natural, while others would see it as something out of character. But, I'm not the one with the final word, what do you think? Comment it and leave your opinion!

[egg-crusher]

I agree with most EXCEPT for the last part, the show is well known for making last minute changes (even in latter volumes is well known how much things quickly change behind scenes)

My evidence? Neo’s entire existence was a last minute change

She was inspired by a Woman doing a cosplay of Roman torchwick which then was quickly pallet swapped, then her semblance was chosen specifically so Roman could make a escape after the Paladin fight, and she didn’t have a voice BECAUSE they couldn’t find a voice actress for how quick her addition was

Neo was a last second addition to the plot, and this was half a volume before volume 3

I can 100% see the writers doing a last minute change like this in volume 3 if the life long, ride and die, best friend and partner in crime of the villain we know since episode one who also is the first person we see in the show which is basically in almost all their spin-offs (manga, video games, series, etc) was a last minute addition to the plot

Was Adam's character assassinated or retconned? (Plus, some clarifications)

Something the people tend to say is that Adam's character was ruined. That what he was supposed to be was changed. Some even claim that Ilia's character was supposed to be Adam's. That Adam was the one to originally assume her role. Is it truth?

First of all, while we can say that it was obvious since he beginning that Adam and Blake had some romantic love because "beauty and the beast", we have to understand that Blake was both beauty AND the beast. What's more, RWBY's allusions never were very important for the characters. Where's Ruby's grandmother? Yang never met the full bear family. Weiss never had an evil stepmother (She had an evil dad). Jaune isn't religious. Nora doesn't have brothers.

And so on. So, before it was revealed in Fall of Beacon, we had no reason to assume Blake and Adam used to be a couple.

But, let's go to the proofs. During their first apparitions nothing they do is romantic. Nor Adam is showed as abusive TOWARDS HER. Both even joked.

"Looks like we're gonna be doing this the hard way."

"Don't be so dramatic."

EDIT: We also have him setting up the charges. Which shows that since the beginning of his appearances, he was someone cruel.

There is Adam saving Blake, but that only means that Adam cares about Blake, not that they are romantic.

We have this draw of Blake. It can be an old draw instead of she drawing him now, she doesn't seem to have a pencil in that moment.

Again, nothing indicates that her relationship with him was romantic.

"All my life, I fought for what I thought was right. I had a partner named Adam. More of a mentor, actually. He always assured me that what we were doing would make the world a better place. But of course, his idea of a perfect future turned out to be not perfect for everyone."

While mentioning as a mentor doesn't deny the possibility that he is also a lover, certainly we yet have no established that he was also her lover. She also mention that his idea of a perfect future was not perfect for everyone, she doesn't say "not perfect for no one but himself". Which means that at least for some, his vision of a perfect future was perfect for some.

Though, Blake also mentions that Adam was a monster.

"When I realized my oldest partner had become a monster, I ran!" Well, we also have this.

"Yeah. A lot of Faunus didn't make it out the tunnels. You still think the White Fang's gonna listen to us?"

"No, but they'll listen to me."

Remember that Cinder's and the White fang's plan was to use the Grimm to attack Vale. That would have put hundreds of faunus in danger. And yet, Adam was willing to continue working for Cinder. Then, we have the most famous scene for this study.

"You're asking my men to die for your cause - a human cause. That is not an idea I am willing to entertain."

Adam SEEMED like he cared about his cause and didn't like the idea of his men dying for a human cause.

And, when Banesaw told him that he will go behind Blake, this is what Adam responds:

"Forget it. It's time I returned to Mistral and…"

Adam just decides to not focus on the fact that Blake left him, and focus on going to Mistral. We can say that he went to Mistral because Blake left him, but there is nothing that seem to indicate that. He just seem not interested in Blake.

"I had someone very dear to me change. It wasn't in an instant, it was gradual - little choices that began to pile up. He told me not to worry. At first they were accidents, then it was self-defense. Before long, even I began to think he was right."

Blake mentions that Adam wasn't evil since the beginning. She mentions that he changed with time.

And... then, he appears in Beacon.

"Bring them to their knees!"

He seems excited and willing to participate in the battle. And bringing Grimm. So, let's analyze.

During most of first volumes nothing implied that Adam used to be Blake's romantic partner. Yet, nothing that Blake said seem to deny that either. She is quite vague, and we can even say that it's because of the abusive nature of her relationship with him.

I don't think that there was a change of direction. Let me explain, we have no reasons to think that the writers wanted first one thing, and later they wanted other.

We can say that for example Adam never cared about his troops dying in Mountain Glenn, he only pretended he cared about them. We can say that Blake hide the fact that she used to be in a relationship with Adam because of the abusive nature if her relationship with him.

EDIT: About Ilia stealing Adam's characterization. I read that. That Ilia shares some traits with Adam. Like both like Blake, both can pass as humans, both are empathizable. But, well, Adam have prominent horns, so he can't pass as humans easily. Not sure if Adam was sympathetic or empathizable, he was willing to kill innocent humans in both the train and the breach. That without mention the faunus that might have died during the breach. Yes, it was planned to happen later, but still, it was planned to happen. We can say that Adam was threatened, but he was willing to continue working with Cinder even after the breach. So, that of "Ilia stole Adam's characterization" seem more like a conspiracy theory.

What I think is that the writers should have been more careful in what they established. Adam certainly give some different ideas. Does he care about Blake or not? Is he a lover or a mentor? Does he care about the faunus or not?

There are only two episodes of difference between Beginning of the end (When Adam ignores Blake) and Battle of Beacon (When is revealed that Adam had a romance with Blake). So again, it would be almost impossible a change of direction with the character in a thing of few episodes. The thing is that there was never a change of direction with the character, it's just that the characterization of Adam seem somewhat contradictory.

So, yeah, that is. Adam wasn't retconned. It's just that the writers should have been more careful.

Clarification numer one:

Alright. I'm gonna be brief. Stop using Monty's name. At this point, is amazing I have to give this message but it seems that the people are not understanding something. "Monty had a version of the characters, but RT ruined it" Dude, what do YOU know about what was the version of the story of Monty? We barely have information about what Monty wanted. We have no reason to affirm something like "They are not following Monty's vision". So, please, stop. Clarification number two: Not all the people that criticize Adam's character use the Monty's vision argument. Well, "Argument". Some people tend to generalize and say that the RWDE always use the Monty's vision's "argument". That isn't the case, is just a minority those who use that bullshit.

Clarification numer three: In Twitter I found someone saying something like "What right do the Adam's fans to justify his actions?". I'm paraphrasing. Look, It's simple. The Adam's fans don't defend nor justify his actions. Well, maybe they defend some actions made under Sienna (Like killing the supremacist or his violent actions against the SDC).

But Adam's don't justify him being a pedophile. Nor they justify when he kills innocent people. Neither when he attacks Beacon or Vale with Grimm. Adam fans also DON'T justify his toxic behavior with Blake.

So, yeah, that would be all.

[egg-crusher]

The problem with Adam is… the bare description of the character

Anime swordsman from a group of revolutionaries from a abused racial minority which became violent criminals with time, him being the hero for them but he slowly became hateful and extremist which didn’t care about the deaths of the race which oppressed him…

Now he became Blake’s ex boyfriend which now kills members of his own race and after he tries to self bomb everyone present he kills hundreds of his own race and goes after his ex girlfriend and tries to kill her and her new girlfriend he mangled while saying “WHAT DOES SHE SEE IN YOU”

At this point saying the problem with Adam is him being a villain is null and void, the problem is him being one of the great names from a organization formed by a racial minority to fight against oppression and ending up like Blake’s murderous ex-boyfriend stalker which killed everyone in said organization

Also the fact he had SCHNEE DUST COMPANY written on his face with hot-steel like how cattle is branded (and the fact he never meet Weiss Schnee or Ruby, should prove how wasted he was as a character) and we don’t have anything about how he got that scar except from a scrapped idea we know of because of a director’s commentary (and also a official description in a phone gsmr which implies he was a child slave)

Adam was a wasted character, only interacted with the main characters 5 times through 6 seasons and all of those except for the final fight lasted less than a minute, Roman Torchwick has more screen time and interactions with team RWBY than Adam (and torchwick has been dead for 6 volumes!)

The reason people thought Adam wouldn’t be pure evil is because he’s a leading member of a violent group focused around fighting racism against their race and we didn’t knew anything about him but that and what Blake said, and obviously fighting racism isn’t something people will hear and immediately think “oh he’s a genocidal maniac who wanted to kill all humans while murdering his ex girlfriend and everyone who looks like her!”

And again, all of that introduction to “the real Adam” was done after 3 volumes of people thinking Adam would at least be morally grey characters

Look me in the eye and tell me Monty planned for Adam to become a one dimensional edgelord after having spent three volumes building him up as a tragic, conflicted revolutionary.

Bruh.

Literally the first thing we see Adam do in the series is hijack a train full of innocent civilians and bluntly state he doesn't give a damn if they die because of his actions. He was never a good person.

[egg-crusher]

I like to imagine they have raspy cartoonish voices with their tone being all over the place

But the “TIRRA WEAR ANYTHING BUT WITCH SKULLS” was said in a completely normal voice

getting ready with the girrrlllss

part 1

[egg-crusher]

PREACH!!!

Anyway, you are 500% right, mainly because… that’s exactly what happen! In the season 5 finale the hero and main bad are finally facing off for last time (for the third time, they’ve done too many final battles for me to care) except Adrien isn’t there

yes he’s excluded from the final fight against his abusive dad

Actually he doesn’t get to know his dad was hawkmoth, Marinette gaslights him into believing Gabriel was a good father who was the one to stop Hawkmoth

Also everyone died, I’m not kidding or exaggerating. In “Ephemeral” they say using the miraculous to make a wish will destroy and recreate reality, and Gabriel Won, he took the miraculous and made a wish meaning he killed everyone

Everyone died, now everything is a perfect utopia (I’m not exaggerating either, that literally happen)

that’s literally the finale of season 5

we have to as a society stop the miraculous ladybug writers from cooking bc at this point they've burned the whole fucking kitchen down. i only watched two seasons but every new detail i learn secondhand gives me incredible psychic damage it's like the riverdale of cartoons. every couple of days i see a new design cross my dashboard and it's either the best or worst thing i've ever seen. i still don't know if the main ship is currently canon because they keep doing time travel and mindwipes and alternate timelines to walk it back. their episodes aren't even chronological. in 50 years someone's going to tell me that adrien and marinette are finally dating but still don't know each other's superhero identities

[egg-crusher]

Im not throwing hands either but I want to make my argument (also the original post says people only defended magnífico because he’s handsome which is wrong since I gave dozens of reasons why people side with him)

And while is true villains can be shades of grey nowadays, if we are taking into account only the villains you presented… this jerks are evil, Bellwether is the only one with a reason (but she’s still racist) but King candy/Turbo is genuinely evil, and while Hans does have a sad backstory in side material (youngest brother so he would never be king, etc) that’s still side material which can always change (like the origin of scar’s scar changing every single time. One moment is because he tried to kill mufasa, the next is because he got attacked by a snake) and doesn’t justify his murderous acts

But the movie treats magnífico like other Disney villains like scar and Frollo, but in forgiving magnífico for his one crime since he actually did good. Scar didn’t give housing and peace to the Pride land but destroyed it, Frollo maybe trapped one or two criminals but that’s outweighed by the countless murder of innocents because of his beliefs, comparing Magnifico with Frollo is like comparing Robbie rotten with the devil from the Bible

(Also you specifically said “he was mean to Asha throughout the whole movie”, so now you saying you didn’t meant what you said is kinda weird)

And again, making someone cry and getting mad at Asha for the wish thing are completely understandable, he wants a apprentice but he only gets people who wants to get their wishes granted, so seeing the reasons he gets mad at people through the movie shows he must had a reason to be angry at that guy

And talking about reasons, you mention how he got mad at a guy for asking to change his wish being the reason he got mad which is only downplaying the entire thing. He asks his people for help and they immediately dismiss him to ask about wishes, and you say it was only that when it was dozens of people asking for wish related things when he was asking for help. I would also get mad if I ask someone for help in something serious but ignores me and starts talking about my job and what I can do for them when I’ve done more than enough to get one favor, now multiply that by 200 and you’ll obviously be mad. None of the moments magnífico get mad are moments I can defend the people making him mad (he’s searching for a apprentice after many people only tried used him to get their wishes granted, is asking for help and they ignore him to get their wishes granted) he indeed has a ego but acting like that makes him a villain is dumb since he (as I said before) didn’t commit any crimes besides a small fraud while giving a utopia for free

He doesn’t even threaten to hurt or imprison the person. King candy jailed Vanellope for unknowingly trying to take down his tyranny on the kingdom he took by force, Magnifico is meanwhile threatened with something similar with his pacific kingdom he himself built and he only threatened to not grant that person’s wish

And again, we are treating wishes like the most valuable thing when there’s dozens of other things he gives to his kingdom

And with the way the movie treats him, I don’t see him being let out. He’s still influenced by the book and the characters never think about magnífico being the reason of the kingdom’s stability

And at the end of the day what’s you think could happen, he could be left there forever since there’s nothing implying they’ll let him get out

I’m still baffled by how the ultimate magnifico defense argument aka one of the biggest wish complaints is “I don’t care what the movie says I can’t believe this cutie is a villain🥰🥰 there’s not a single bad thought behind those cute eyes he’s just misunderstood poor meow meow🥺🥺” you wouldn’t have survived 2010’s disney do these look like bad guys to you