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chrollc · 8 days ago

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too many girls who like snoopy and poetry and healing. personally I never heal and all I think about is the flaming skull

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chrollc · 10 days ago

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“some wounds that cannot be wholly cured”

What will be the most likely consequences of Morgoth’s crown wound on Galadriel? Let’s us explore the possibilities, clues and foreshadowing:

The parallel between Galadriel's series arc and Frodo's arc as well, and you can look at... you know... a couple... sort of commoneries they have. You know, Frodo getting stabbed by the Morgul blade and Galadriel getting stabbed by the crown of Morgoth. And you know, his, sort of like, push and pull relationship with the Ring, her push and pull relationship to Sauron, which is basically the Ring personified. Hum... there's some interesting things to look at and unpack there across the series. - J.D. Payne

Galadriel/Frodo and Sauron/One Ring parallels in “Rings of Power”

At the same time he struck at the feet of his enemy [Witch King of Angmar]. A shrill cry rang out in the night; and he felt a pain like a dart of poisoned ice pierce his left shoulder […] With a last effort Frodo, dropping his sword, slipped the Ring from his finger and closed his right hand tight upon it.

“I fear, Sam, that they believe your master has a deadly wound that will subdue him to their will […] He is not slain, and I think he will resist the evil power of the wound longer than his enemies expect. I will do all I can to help and heal him. […] Findol will lead you onward, he shall see you safely to Rivendell.”

“What happened at the Ford?” said Frodo, after they had recovered. “It all seemed so dim somehow; and it still does.” […] “I don’t know.” Frodo answered. “They [the side and shoulder] don’t feel at all: which is an improvement, but” -he made an effort- “I can move my arm again a little. Yes, it is coming back to life. It is not cold,” he added, touching his left hand with his right.

In “Fellowship of the Ring”, Frodo is injured by the Witch King of Angmar, using a Morgul blade. In spite of being physically healed by Elrond, this wound never fully heals, not even after the One Ring is destroyed and Sauron is defeated. And on its anniversary, Frodo becomes seriously ill.

In Two Towers, Frodo can sense the wound whenever the Witch King is nearby:

a Rider, all black, save that on his hooded head he had a helm like a crown that flickered with a perilous light. Now he was drawing near the bridge below, and Frodo's staring eyes followed him, unable to wink or to withdraw. […] Here, yes here indeed was the haggard king whose cold hand had smitten down the Ring-bearer with his deadly knife. The old wound throbbed with pain and a great chill spread towards Frodo's heart.

Frodo also got a nasty scar for life:

One evening Sam came into the study and found his master looking very strange. He was very pale and his eyes seemed to see things far away. “What’s the matter, Mr. Frodo?” said Sam. “I am wounded,” he answered, “wounded; it will never really heal.” But then he got up, and the turn seemed to pass, and he was quite himself the next day. It was not until afterwards that Sam recalled that the date was October the sixth. Two years before on that day it was dark in the dell under Weathertop. Time went on, and 1412 came in. Frodo was ill again in March, but with a great effort he concealed it, for Sam had other things to think about.

“Alas! there are some wounds that cannot be wholly cured," said Gandalf. “I fear it may be so with mine," said Frodo. "There is no real going back. Though I may come to the Shire, it will not seem the same; for I shall not be the same. I am wounded with knife, sting, and tooth, and a long burden. Where shall I find rest?” Gandalf did not answer. Return of the King

This wound forever changes Frodo, and it’s only a blade forged by Sauron, what consequences will Morgoth’s very own crown, a object filled with dark magic, have on Galadriel?

If Frodo’s wound is anything to go by, the hypothetical consequences will be it will never heal; and, straight out of “Harry Potter”, the wound will hurt whenever Sauron is near.

And can 2x08 already have provided us with some foreshadowing on this?

Galadriel's case

First things first: Morgoth’s crown is not a Morgul blade, per say. “Morgul-knifes” were dark magic weapons forged by Sauron in Minas Morgul, to gift the Nazgûl. This is necromancy, and they, indeed, turned victims into slave wraiths to the Nine and to Sauron himself (and this was the goal in stabbing Frodo, for him to surrender the One ring).

The difference here is: the tip of the Morgul blade would remain inside of the victim to complete this wraith-transformation process (this happened to Frodo, and the tip had to be removed); and the sun would vanish/destroy them (this also happens in “Fellowship of the Ring”, when the Witch King leaves the blade behind).

We know neither of these things happened with Morgoth’s crown (which was forged by Morgoth, and reforged by Sauron, to fit himself). And I highly doubt Morgul-blades had the power to destroy Sauron’s physical form, either (this is another misconception: he lost the ability to take on “fair form” after the Fall of Númenor, not physical form).

Unless we are assuming Sauron “took notes” from this event with Galadriel, and perfected the method with his own Morgul-knives, but his overall attitude and his smile of victory seems to imply he knew exactly what he was doing in this scene.

Which leads me to the next theory: blood binding. The entire fighting sequence appeared to be a charade building towards one moment: Sauron binding Galadriel to him. He did, after all, stabbed her with a dark magic object infused with his own blood (Adar used it to destroy his previous physical form, in 2x01).

2x01 / 2x08 parallels: “Only blood can bind.” (Adar; 1x05)

We saw Sauron mind-communicating with Galadriel after the stabbing. To me, this scene marks the beginning of his grouping of her mind, for thousands years to come (because we haven’t seen this in the show, yet).

Visually, we have some clues that seem to indicate this, indeed, happened:

These shots can imply blood binding theory is correct, and Sauron might have transferred some of his powers to Galadriel. This is not mere “camera work”: in the first screenshot it’s Sauron looking down at Galadriel, and the second is Galadriel waking up. The effect on both is the same; hinting a sharing power between them.

And Sauron didn’t do this “by accident”; not only he’s been a master in blood magic for over thousands of years (probably for longer than Galadriel herself has been alive), but this was his intention ever since 1x08: “you bind me to the light, and I bind you to power.”

Then, "Rings of Power" appears to have taken some inspiration from these dark veins on Galadriel's chest in her "elf-witch" form in Peter Jackson adaptation of "The Hobbit", for Sauron's wounds from Morgoth's crown in 2x01:

We can see the dark veins appearing on his neck, face and forehead:

Interestingly enough these are the same veins on Frodo’s wound from the “Fellowship of the Ring” adaptation (2001), so I’m not sure why Peter Jackson decided to place them on Galadriel’s chest, in 2014.

Anyway; can this be a clue towards something? Will we see this version of Galadriel in “Rings of Power”?

In Tolkien lore, Galadriel is a powerful “elf-witch”, an Elven queen of great magic and power, however in "Rings of Power" we haven't seen her either dealing nor displaying any kind of magical abilities. Yet. Having her blood bound with Sauron can be the show’s explanation for her source of magical power, as well as to why she never faces him directly, working against him from afar, and why Sauron couldn’t conquer Lothlórien unless he went there, himself; as well, as for Sauron’s grouping of her mind for thousands of years into the future, and how Galadriel is able to see into his mind, as well.

The Unexplicable Wound on Galadriel's Face:

A mysterious wound appears on Galadriel’s face, and some fans seem to think this might have been an error in editing. But, is it, really?

We know, for a fact, Sauron didn’t cut her face; he didn’t had time for that. Galadriel cuts his face, he turns around and goes for the stabbing in the next minute. But, in the meantime, the wound is already on her cheek (and is the same as the one she cuts on his face):

However, there’s another character with the same wound:

And this wound isn’t meaningless, because the scar is still visible on Galadriel’s face, even after her healing by Two of the Three Elven rings of power. She had several cuts on her face, but they were nearly gone but this one (besides the obvious camera focus).

And this scar looks off, because it doesn’t look like a cut scar, but a burn mark, almost.

Even stone cannot hide the mark of one whose very hand is flame unquenched. He was here... Sauron was here. Galadriel arrives at Forodwaith, 1x01

But what does this mean? When did Sauron ever touched Galadriel's cheek? He touched her chin, in 1x08. And how is Elrond connected to all of this? Why do these three characters share the same scar, in the same place?

Because the "Elrond in the tent" in 2x07 was not Elrond, at all. It was Sauron. Context: here, here, here, and here.

#absolutely incredible analysis as always

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chrollc · 13 days ago

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chrollc · 17 days ago

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For all the cries of "live and let live", it apparently doesn't apply to letting Haladriel fans have an opinion on Celeborn differing from your circle's.

You all could take your own advice and and live and let live. But instead some of you sent your friends to @apoloadonisandnarcissus and made posts in a flurry because of Celeborn. You do care people don't like Celeborn. You do care that there are Haladriel fans outside your little circle who aren't dying to have him back.

I've watched this silently but you're not more mature if you can't read a speculation post, roll your eyes, and move on.

This speculation post about Celeborn's future on season 3 didn't require you applying bully tactics: https://www.tumblr.com/apoloadonisandnarcissus/766210225174953984/once-in-a-while-i-have-to-address-the-elephant-in?source=share

The only reason @apoloadonisandnarcissus post (excerpted a bit below) would upset you is it felt it could apply to you. If it doesn't apply to you, why are you all screeching at the poster and in the tag?

While some of you might truly mean well, by wanting Celeborn to return and make an appearance as soon as possible in “Rings of Power”, this overall discussion is so riddled with antis and so anti-Sauron x Galadriel coded (and anti-Galadriel herself), it usually gives me the yikes. Antis and the “dudebros” want Celeborn to return to “tame” Galadriel (stay in Lothlórien barefoot and pregnant), to sideline her in her own story, and to wreck Sauron x Galadriel. So, when you make the case for Celeborn return and if you do mean well, be mindful of this, because fellow shippers might not take you seriously due to the whole context around this debate.

I've seen this little group gang up on people for Celeborn before under the guise of live and let live. They've shut down Haladriel fans criticisms of S2. Now, they're posting their Haladriel fan and Tolkien credentials to try to beat down other Haladriel fans when it comes to anything Celeborn. Haladriel fans aren't a monolith; you've got that right.

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chrollc · 17 days ago

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For all the cries of "live and let live", it apparently doesn't apply to letting Haladriel fans have an opinion on Celeborn differing from your circle's.

You all could take your own advice and and live and let live. But instead some of you sent your friends to @apoloadonisandnarcissus and made posts in a flurry because of Celeborn. You do care people don't like Celeborn. You do care that there are Haladriel fans outside your little circle who aren't dying to have him back.

I've watched this silently but you're not more mature if you can't read a speculation post, roll your eyes, and move on.

This speculation post about Celeborn's future on season 3 didn't require you applying bully tactics: https://www.tumblr.com/apoloadonisandnarcissus/766210225174953984/once-in-a-while-i-have-to-address-the-elephant-in?source=share

The only reason @apoloadonisandnarcissus post (excerpted a bit below) would upset you is it felt it could apply to you. If it doesn't apply to you, why are you all screeching at the poster and in the tag?

While some of you might truly mean well, by wanting Celeborn to return and make an appearance as soon as possible in “Rings of Power”, this overall discussion is so riddled with antis and so anti-Sauron x Galadriel coded (and anti-Galadriel herself), it usually gives me the yikes. Antis and the “dudebros” want Celeborn to return to “tame” Galadriel (stay in Lothlórien barefoot and pregnant), to sideline her in her own story, and to wreck Sauron x Galadriel. So, when you make the case for Celeborn return and if you do mean well, be mindful of this, because fellow shippers might not take you seriously due to the whole context around this debate.

I've seen this little group gang up on people for Celeborn before under the guise of live and let live. They've shut down Haladriel fans criticisms of S2. Now, they're posting their Haladriel fan and Tolkien credentials to try to beat down other Haladriel fans when it comes to anything Celeborn. Haladriel fans aren't a monolith; you've got that right.

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chrollc · 17 days ago

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Folks, we know our fandom is growing when antis create accounts to pretend to be shippers and go around, attempting to troll us, and stir trouble.

Their blogs are usually very generic, reblogging our meta, and when they create content is either extremely over the top, or sarcastic, and, once in a while, there’s the occasion full anti post. Others, are entirely pro-Saurondriel/Haladriel on their blogs, but full anti on their comments on the actual shippers posts, calling us “delusional”, our theories and speculation “fanfiction”, etc.

B*tches: we know who you are. We know you are antis. We are not entertaining your nonsense. Go find something else to do with your free time instead of trying to mess with other people’s hobbies.

Fellow shippers: don’t engage with these people. Block and ignore. They want the attention. They want to stir trouble, and troll us. Don’t let them.

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chrollc · 17 days ago

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Once in a while I have to address the “elephant in the room”; Celeborn. I don’t usually talk about his character because I know that’s inviting trouble and I risk upsetting fellow Tolkien fans.

While some of you might truly mean well, by wanting Celeborn to return and make an appearance as soon as possible in “Rings of Power”, this overall discussion is so riddled with antis and so anti-Sauron x Galadriel coded (and anti-Galadriel herself), it usually gives me the yikes. Antis and the “dudebros” want Celeborn to return to “tame” Galadriel (stay in Lothlórien barefoot and pregnant), to sideline her in her own story, and to wreck Sauron x Galadriel. So, when you make the case for Celeborn return and if you do mean well, be mindful of this, because fellow shippers might not take you seriously due to the whole context around this debate.

Sauron and Galadriel connection is the core of “Rings of Power”, the showrunners have already told us this, so why are so many choosing to ignore it, over and over again? Probably antis masquerading as shippers, who actually believed Galadriel really “closed the door” of her mind to Sauron using meaningless words. As if. I guess you miss the scene where Sauron stabbed her with Morgoth’s crown and was mind-communicating with her, next? So, no, the door is not closed, it’s wide open, and Galadriel will have to become the powerful elf-witch we know her to be, before she’s able to actually “close the door” of her mind to Sauron.

Many are probably not aware of this fact but Amazon needs Tolkien estate to approve their scripts, and greenlight everything they pull off to the public. And if Simon Tolkien happens to share his late father, Christopher, opinions on Galadriel and Celeborn story, don’t expect his character to make an appearance anytime soon. Because no one wants to deal with that mess of inconsistencies and plot holes, so ignoring it seems to be the popular course of action in all adaptations so far. You may not like it, but it is what it is. Celeborn doesn’t need to be there for Galadriel’s elf-witch or Elven Queen arcs, really, and his plot can be easily replaced by any other Elf soldier in “Rings of Power” (like Arondir, I have a feeling he’ll end up in Lothlórien).

If the show keeps the dynamic they established with S1 (Galadriel) and S2 (Sauron), Season 3 will be Galadriel season, and Season 4 Sauron-centered (Fall of Númenor), and the last season Galadriel again (War of the Last Alliance). This make sense with Tolkien’s story, because Sauron will lose the ability to take on fair form (not physical form, mind you) after Eru sinks Númenor, so Season 4 it’s the show’s last opportunity to really explore Charlie Vickers’ physicality and bodily appeal as Sauron. In Season 5 he’ll be a shadow rebuilding itself, and appearing in full armor.

Back to Celeborn, everyone is absolutely sure he’ll return in Season 3. I highly doubt that, myself. Because Season 3 will be the war of Sauron and the Elves, with Sauron wanting to take the Three rings of power for himself and wagging war on Lindon. Galadriel will be dealing with the consequences of Morgoth’s crown wound (because the show can’t possible introduce something this massive and ignoring it next; apparently everyone conveniently forgets about Frodo and his Morgul blade wound).

I’m almost certain the show introduced this wound as an explanation to Galadriel powers and for Sauron’s grouping of her mind for thousands of years into the future. Because we haven’t seen her dealing with any kind of magic in “Rings of Power”, so that plot has to be introduced somehow, and this wound is probably how they did it. This means, Sauron has an open line of communication with Galadriel, now. The show not use that for his plot of getting the Three would be nonsensical. And since Galadriel will most likely start her elf-witch arc in Season 3, if any character is to be introduced it’s Gandalf, and not Celeborn.

You need to think about the story. What’s the point of having Celeborn, there? He’s of no consequence to Galadriel magical and Nenya arc, we know this from the legendarium. So, he returns and he’s… just there? Fights battles and that’s it? Because that’s pretty much his character arc in Tolkien lore. So, yes, I’m not apologizing for my opinion on this, because it does reek of anti-Sauron x Galadriel, really. I can’t take you seriously on this one. Unless you openly admit you want Sauron x Galadriel to be over. At least, that’s being honest.

Then we have the “soap opera” scenarios with Sauron x Galadriel x Celeborn happening all at once. Because dealing with Morgoth’s crown wound and possibly spiralling down into darkness isn’t enough for Galadriel’s arc in Season 3. Sauron doesn’t need to use Celeborn to mess with Galadriel, he can just use Elrond; a character that’s already there, with whom Galadriel has an emotional connection and who’ll have a major role in Season 3 (building Rivendell and becoming a Elf-lord of his own right).

Same vibe; another parallel between these two characters; the red herring ending in the Season finale. In Season 1, Sauron looked as if he was ready to take over the place or even forge the One Ring; in Season 2 Galadriel appears all in white, victorious over the darkness.

You need to understand that the casual viewers don’t know who Celeborn is. He was mentioned once in Season 1. His character has to be properly introduced, and his return prepared for the general audience to recognize him when he does arrive to the show. He’s not showing up out of nowhere. This is why those theories of “Sauron will impersonate Celeborn” in Season 2 finale were always nonsensical to me. Because the casuals wouldn’t know who the hell he is, or why was Sauron impersonating him in the first place. I think this theory is now translating into this wishful thinking of “Celeborn in Season 3 and Sauron shapeshifting into him to mess with Galadriel”. Don’t buy it, personally. And, honestly, that would be distasteful. And create a rabbit hole of problems story-wise. Unless the show actually wants to go with the wild “Half-Maia Celebrían” theory (I joked about this, but I don’t see the show going there).

I’ll stand by my opinion. Celeborn should return in Season 5, alongside Glorfindel, after Galadriel has truly closed the door on Sauron. To make it otherwise, it would be too much “soap opera” for my taste, and completely wreck Galadriel and Celeborn marriage. Yes, they are lukewarm to say the least in Tolkien legendarium, but let’s not push it. Celeborn should provide Galadriel with some inner peace and stability after the being ravished by Sauron/darkness, not another source of trouble for her character.

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chrollc · 21 days ago

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