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besaidcafe · 5 months ago

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A continuation of my observations of the Octo2 traveler's weaknesses from here, now with fun visual diagrams! The above diagram shows each character's "base kit" (the weapons and elements they have access to w/out a secondary job) on the top row, and their weaknesses from the Dolcinaea fight on the bottom row.

Note that Agnea can't be charmed in this fight, so we don't actually know what her weaknesses are, but given that she has wind as her main element and how the elemental weaknesses tend to work (fire and ice are strong against each other, wind and lightning are strong against each other, and light and dark are strong against each other--based on the other Octo2 cast's weaknesses, and on how CotC usually handles elemental weaknesses, and using Tressa's weaknesses for reference), we can assume Agnea has at least a weakness to lightning. (CotC specifically seems to support this, since one of Agnea's passive skills gives her a buff to her lightning defense, and most characters in CotC who have access to only one element tend to get passive skills that buff their defense against their element's weakness, so I feel confident in saying Agnea should have a weakness to lightning).

As I observed in my first post, all the characters' weapon weaknesses tend to be the "opposite" of whatever their base kit weapon is (in type, i.e. long-range weapon users tend to be weak to close-range weapons and vice versa). The sort of exception to this is daggers, which get treated as both a long- and close-range weapon (the dagger attack animation has a character throwing a dagger--ranged--but it can also be used to stab someone, which we see multiple times in various cutscenes across Octo1, Octo2, and CotC). This means it's hard to figure out what sort of weapon weakness Agnea might have because she only uses a dagger as her base kit weapon.

Now I already discussed patterns in weaknesses and other observations in my first post, so I won't reiterate anything here (although I will quickly add some very astute people noted in their tags that Hikari being the only one we know for sure is weak to lightning is probably a reference to the thing with Rai Mei, which I missed initially but makes so much sense). But I wanted to take a look at who could break who in the party to see if the battle mechanics tied in with characterization, and set up the following diagrams for each character, so I could really dig into weird details.

(Under the cut bc this entire post is so very long, and there are more diagrams; ALSO SPOILERS, I do talk about a few endgame spoilers)

We'll start with Ochette who's actually capable of breaking the most other travelers at six. The only person she can't seem to hit (by herself) is Partitio, which is an interesting detail.

It makes a lot of sense that Ochette is the best at breaking other characters, given that she's a hunter (needs to be able to find critical weak points as part of her job). I've also written in the past how I think Ochette is actually one of the most emotionally intelligent characters in the group, and that she's probably way more aware of what's going on with the other travelers than she lets on--and way more in-tune with them than even they realize--but her ability to break most of them actually seems to support that as well.

I feel this gets reflected in her interactions with the other travelers, since Ochette is one of the few characters Throne and Osvald are pretty open with from the get-go, despite both being a bit closed off to the other travelers at first; the same goes for Temenos, although he tends to mask the fact that he's closed off, so it isn't as obvious at first glance.

Ochette is also the only traveler who ever comes close to finding out about Hikari's Shadow, since she can smell it "in" him. Likewise for Castti, in their second crossed paths the Shadow is able to capture and almost kill Castti, but not Ochette--Castii has a connection to the Shadow due to her exposure to Trousseau's rain (and a mental weak spot from the trauma of loosing patients in the past), and therefore is weak to the Shadow, so it seems fitting that Ochette is the one to "break" Castti free from the Shadow's trap.

As for Agnea, there is the sense that the two are opposites in their athletic abilities, given that Ochette is a very athletic and sure-footed hunter, whereas Agnea, while certainly athletic, still stumbles on occasion despite her years of work.

It also makes sense that Partitio is the only one Ochette can't break, since Partitio's name is also the only name Ochette struggles with, and she doesn't ever use his full name. Despite having a nickname for every traveler except Temenos, in battle Ochette uses their full names after they break an enemy, with the exception of Partitio. After Partitio breaks an enemy, Ochette uses the nickname she gives him ("Good hunting Pardy!") which is, if I recall correctly, unique to Paritio. His job and the entire concept of money is also baffling to Ochette, despite Partitio's best efforts to explain it to her.

It's interesting to note as well that even Ochette's two starting partners, Akala and Mahina, can each break 6 of the other travelers on their own (Akala can break everyone--assuming Agnea does have a weapon weakness we don't know about yet--but Akala can't break Hikari, who's a master of combat; Mahina can break everyone except Osvald, who's a master of magic). By the end of Ochette's story when she has the creatures of legend, she can actually break everyone (Akala + Tera and Glacis who each have elemental attacks that Hikari's weak to), and while Mahina + Tera and Glacis can't break Osvald still, if Ochette were fighting alongside them rather than just provoking with them, she herself would be able to break Osvald.

Given that Ochette is one of the best characters for breaking enemies just from a game mechanics standpoint, it's neat that this is reflected in her ability to apparently break nearly all the other travelers.

Castti can only break four of the other travelers, which is on the lower end (although not the lowest), but this seems to fit since story-wise she's a healer first, a fighter second (despite making an excellent damage-dealer).

The characters she can't break are people she treats like kids (Ochette and Agnea), and Osvald, who's one of the characters to tell Castti to take care of herself. Osvald's also arguably her peer, in that he's the oldest of the group and occasionally a parental figure to the others in some sense, the same way Castti takes on a pseudo-parental role on occasion, so she can't really "parent" him because Osvald is both literally a parent and, to some degree, figuratively the group's parent.

Likewise, all the characters she can break are characters who either get into lots of fights (Paritio and Hikari), or characters who would probably pretend they're not as hurt as they actually are when they do get hurt, or otherwise mask their pain a lot (Throne and Temenos). We see this in some of Castti's banters where she chides Partitio for getting into fights (she also tends to tease him relentlessly, and he's one of the only characters she teases), or how she worries after Throne, giving her check-ups out of the blue in one of their banters. Castti also has a banter with Temenos after the events of his Stormhail chapter where she checks in on his wellbeing, and while he sort of manages to redirect her attention away from him by complementing how well she looks after people, the fact remains that she did know he needed to be checked in on.

Castti really said none of you are getting away with not getting treated for your hurts or so help her.

Throne, surprisingly, only can only break four of the other travelers. Despite being raised and trained as a deadly assassin, the low number of travelers she can break might reflect her narrative "aversion to blood and killing". Throne is, after all, able to non-lethally knock people out as her nighttime path action, so her unwillingness, and inability, to hurt her allies does make sense for her characterization.

The people she can't break make a lot of sense--Throne's unable to sneak up on Ochette in their banters, and is always open and kind with Ochette. She and Hikari share shadowy ancestry, and he's a skilled warrior, so it might be harder for her to find and opening and get the drop on him (esp. considering how his Shadow might react to their shared blood ties to D'arqest).

Agnea's entire character arc is more or less centered around trying to inspire hope in everyone she meets, and Throne herself hopes to be free, so it'd make sense for Throne to follow after Agnea's hope rather than trying to fight against her.

The people Throne can break are interesting as well, especially since she is the most effective against Temenos, covering 3/4 of his weaknesses with her base kit. Temenos really isn't able to hide any of his weaknesses against Throne, which makes sense given their interactions and teamwork in their crossed path story arc.

She's also one of the only characters to throw Castti off a few times (i.e. the banter where Throne almost talks Castti into letter her steal stuff from Timberain's royal family bc Throne thinks Castti would look pretty in the jewelry).

Throne also has a banter with Partitio where she gets him to realize how over-trusting he can be by talking him into letting her take the check from Alrond--which she doesn't do, but she definitely exploited a few of his social weaknesses and could have stolen the check from him easily, in front of his face no less. (Although if I recall correctly, Partitio then has her hold onto the check for safekeeping anyhow, just because he trusts her that much).

Osvald is a bit of a surprise, given how few weaknesses he has and how vigilant he seems to be, but Throne is a professional and given that Osvald was unable to escape prison without Emerald's help (who also seems to be a thief, given that he uses a dagger when playable), it makes sense that Throne could potentially get the better of him. There's also the fact that she's the granddaughter of D'arqest, and Osvald has spent his life investigating the source of D'arqest's magic, the answer to which eludes him till the very end of his story.

Osvald can break five of the other travelers, which is the second-most after Ochette. This matches well with his ability to scrutinize people, and his general observant nature.

He can't break Throne, which as noted previously, may be due to how close her blood-ties are to D'arqest. Studying the Pit of D'arqest and trying to figure out what the source of his magic was is Osvald's life study, the answer to which eludes him most of the story, so it does make sense that Throne, the granddaughter of D'arqest, would also elude him (esp. considering that while Osvald does learn about the Shadow, the answer he finds to the One True Magic is entirely separate and opposite to the Shadow). Hikari has the same blood-ties, but it's strongly implied he is a much further descendant of D'arqest than Throne is, so even though Hikari literally has the Shadow living in him, he's not tied to D'arqest the same way Throne is (as she's the daughter of Vide's "perfect vessel" and was raised in hopes that she could succeed as a vessel instead, even if this ultimately fails).

Osvald also can't break Temenos, which actually does reflect their general relationship well. In one of their banters, Osvald makes a note of how much Temenos talks without ever saying what his point is, and generally seems to find Temenos's whimsical façade to be a hassle to deal with on occasion. It's funny, in a way, that Temenos is one of the few people Osvald can't seem to figure out, but also speaks to each of their personalities--Osvald is honest bordering on rudeness, and always straightforward with how he speaks, whereas Temenos keeps a great deal of his inner thoughts and feelings to himself while speaking in a roundabout way, hiding what he actually wants to say behind stories from the scriptures or lighthearted jabs.

That Osvald can break everyone else reflects his observant nature, for sure, but it's also interesting that he can break characters like Agnea and Ochette, both of whom he treats as surrogate daughters to some level or another...though perhaps the fact that he can break them reflects his parenting style, wherein he wouldn't want to hold back any important lessons, even if they were somewhat unpleasant.

As noted before, Osvald's one of the few characters who points out how reckless Castti can be with her own health, so it makes sense he'd be able to break her. Hikari makes sense, given that he's trained in martial arts rather than magical arts, so Osvald and Hikari are strong in what the other is weak in. And, Partitio is open and honest, almost to a fault, which, like how Throne can get a good read on Partitio, probably makes Partitio fairly easy for Osvald to get a read on as well.

Like Osvald, Partitio can break five of the other travelers. This, paired with his distinct lack of weaknesses, does seem to reflect the fact that, despite being sincere and a starting off untraveled, Partitio is wicked smart and very aware of what's going on around him, skills he needs to be a successful merchant.

Partitio can't break Agnea as far as we know, which seems to reflect their banter where Partitio nearly gives her his money after she explains how she raised enough money to start traveling (Angea notably has enough money for her travels, it's Paritio who needs to come up with more money, but here he is trying to give her more money anyhow).

Partitio being unable to break Temenos may have to do with Partitio truly not being able to get a good read on Temenos because of how Temenos is (re: puts up a façade, keeps his feelings to himself, etc.), but there's also the shared banter between Castti, Partitio, Temenos, and Agnea where, a bit drunk and therefore letting his guard slip a bit, we see that Temenos can be rather cynical, as he shoots down the idea of new paper plays about their travels rather quickly. This puts his personality at odds with both Partitio and Agnea, who are unfailingly optimistic (and optimistic enough they eventually convince Temenos their idea isn't that naïve).

The fact that Partitio can break the rest of the party is just testament to his astuteness and flexibility as a merchant, since he can break more stoic characters like Osvald and Throne (Partitio hits it off pretty quickly with both, not even giving Throne a hard time for her thieving habits and instead bonding over their shared love of fashion, as any merchant good at networking might do), while also finding a way past Hikari's defenses (although Hikari's usually pretty straightforward on matters not related to his Shadow, so Partitio's able to connect with him pretty easily as well). As noted earlier, Partitio is the only character Ochette cannot break without one of her partners, and his name is the only one that really trips her up.

Partitio being able to break Castti comes as a bit of a surprise, given that the majority of their banters have Castti teasing Partitio or chiding him for his reckless behavior. There is the sense that Partitio respects Castti a great deal and is still paying attention to what she does, as seen in their banter during her Timberain chapter, where Paritio reminds Castti that her ability to convince the soldiers to get the people indoors to safety was due to her hard work, and that while it's true there's more for her to do, she shouldn't undersell the worth of all that she has already managed to achieve. From this, we get the sense that teasing and chiding aside, Partitio is still keeping tabs on Castti and is clearly able to get a read on her, even if he doesn't intervene as often in her personal affairs.

Despite being the only one whose weaknesses we don't know for certain, Agnea can break five other travelers as well. This makes sense from a game mechanics standpoint, since Dolcinaea is Agnea's boss fight and Agnea can't be charmed during the fight, so she ideally has to have a chance to break whoever Dolcinaea does charm. But this also reflects well how Agnea is able to win over so many people throughout her travels, as her pursuit of hope and desire to bring joy to people never wavers and inspires others.

The only two she can't break are Partitio and Throne. Given the infamous peaches banter, it makes sense Agnea can't break Partitio, since she didn't realize he was talking about the basket of peaches she was literally holding until the very end of the banter, and by then was too flustered to stick around (Partitio is, notably, clueless to the fact that Agnea thought he was talking about some entirely different peaches).

Throne makes sense as well because she's a slightly older, and definitely more experienced, woman than Agnea. As a country girl coming to the city, Agnea is ignorant to all of the dark things a city could hold, while Throne is a city girl who grew up literally in the shadows of all the wicked things in a city. Agnea's general ignorance puts her at a slight disadvantage to Throne's knowledge, although it should be noted that Throne is also inspired by Agnea's kindness and hope, and supports Agnea rather than looking down on her ignorance and naivety.

While we can assume that Agnea can break most of the other travelers for battle mechanics purposes, and to make sure the player has a chance to retrieve the charmed character even if Agnea is the only character they have to do that, it is interesting that she can break most of the characters from a narrative standpoint.

Characters like Osvald and Castti treat Agnea like a kid (Agnea seems to be a surrogate daughter to Osvald specifically), so it could be she's able to get to both of them because they want to dote on her a bit like a parent might (although for Castti, the resident healer, the fact that Agnea can break her might be due to Agnea's habit of occassionally rushing into things that causes some vexation to Castti).

Temenos notably has a difficult time communicating with Agnea, so Agnea's ability to break him could have something to do with the fact that Temenos is never able to get his point across to Agnea in a few of their banters (i.e. when Agnea forgets that he's the inquisitor and thinks his job is that of a detective or a paper play artist, and all of Temenos's attempts to correct her fail; likewise his attempt to get Agnea to take care of herself--before helping Laila get new shoes--via a story of Aelfric goes right over Agnea's head). It's not so much that Agnea is that naïve, but rather Temenos's roundabout way of doing things seems to make it more difficult for him to communicate clearly with her.

Agnea being able to break Hikari could be explained as well by her unwavering optimism and journey for hope. Compared to Hikari's childhood, Agnea hasn't experienced the same hardships, so her belief in bringing joy and happiness to people may seem naïve at first. But Hikari's entire end-goal for Ku isn't that different, as he wishes for peace and prosperity and an end to the bloodshed and war that's plagued his country and torn asunder his family and the families of his people. So despite the fact that Agnea's coming from an entirely different set of life experiences, her desire to bring about a more hopeful, brighter future aligns with Hikari's own desire for a better future, so it makes sense then that Agnea could break through to Hikari because he believes deeply in her vision even before he meets her. (This is also somewhat reflected in Mikka and Pala's side story in the postgame, as it's Pala who's able to break through to Mikka).

Ochette's the most surprising, although Agnea is one of the first travelers to share cooked food with Ochette in one of their early banters, so in the realm of food at least Agnea knows ways to prepare it that Ochette loves (even though Castti also later cooks for Ochette but can't break her). There's also the banter in Agnea's final chapter where Ochette talks about how much she loves Gil's piano playing, and she mentions several times how much she enjoys Agnea's dances and singing, so it could be that Ochette is weak to the performing arts.

Temenos has the fewest number of travelers that he can break, making him the opposite of Ochette. Now, technically he could break every traveler with his latent ability, but without putting in the extra effort he's not able to break most of the others. This is interesting considering his entire thing is being able to get information by talking with people (the coerce nighttime path action, despite being a battle, is probably supposed to be a metaphor for the "mental battle" waged when trying to get information from someone). Despite his acuity with detective work and unravelling mysteries, he has quite the difficult time unravelling his traveling companions. It's possible that, like Castti, this actually reflects the fact that he is a healer technically (even if, in Temenos's shared banter with Castti and Partitio, Partitio suggests that Temenos's "healing" style focuses more on the spirit, rather than physical wounds the way Castti's healing does).

Who he can break are interesting choices. Throne is the least surprising, since the two are opposites while being quite alike, although Temenos notably can only hit one of Throne's weaknesses while she can hit most of his.

Meanwhile, Ochette is probably one of the least deceptive travelers, never hiding much of anything, so it could be Temenos has an easier time reading her because she's straightforward with her thoughts and feelings pretty much all the time. This might explain why Temenos can break Partitio as well, since while Partitio is capable of using his merchant's gift of rhetoric to inspire people to his cause, he is incredibly honest, straightforward, and open about himself as well, and very trusting of other people (the opposite of Temenos's innate doubt).

If we work off the idea that Temenos has an easier time reading Ochette and Partitio because of their openness, then most of the characters Temenos can't break make sense. Hikari, while not outright deceptive, never tells any of the other party members about his struggles with his Shadow (although he comes close and talks about it indirectly with Temenos and Castti in one of their banters), and therefore we can say that Hikari is somewhat secretive and very good at keeping his secrets.

Castti likewise, while she's not trying to keep secrets intentionally and also isn't deceptive, suffers amnesia and can't remember much of anything of her past at the start of her story (Temenos can't inquire about something someone doesn't know). Even after she regains her memories, it's hard to say how openly Castti would discuss her experiences or not, since we don't see them brought up in detail during her travel banters often.

Osvald doesn't keep anything secret, on purpose or accident, and is very straightforward when he speaks, but he's also taciturn and prefers not to chat, so it makes sense Temenos would have a hard time breaking him since Temenos can't learn something from someone who won't talk to him, and there's the general impression that even Osvald's body language is a bit withdrawn (I say "general impression" bc despite the limits of sprite art, Osvald doesn't move around as expressively or actively as other characters like Ochette or Angea, and even his unique Bewildering Grace dance is the most restrained of the eight).

As noted earlier Temenos also has a difficult time communicating his point to Agnea in several of their shared banters. It should be noted as well that Agnea is the youngest character in the group, and Temenos tends to be "weak" to children, with how he lets Ochette talk him into reading Acta a story because Acta is a baby, or with the children of his church teasing him for his mistakes in his paper plays (although I think his mistakes are intentional, as I explained in this post here, but Temenos does seem to have something of a soft spot for children, possibly because they tend to be more honest or possibly because he takes his duties teaching/guiding them more seriously than he lets on).

Surprisingly, despite his martial prowess, Hikari can only break four other travelers. Like we see with Throne, this could speak to his nature, as Hikari is very kindhearted and values his friends dearly, and his desire not to hurt anyone but especially the people he cares about is what allows Hikari to stave off, and eventually defeat, his Shadow. Indeed, like how Castti is a healer first, fighter second, there's the impression that Hikari--despite being a warrior--is a protector first, and a warrior second.

Hikari can't break Castti, which is interesting, because Castti was "infected" by Trousseau's poison rain and carried a bit of the Shadow around with her, it's possible Hikari couldn't break her even if he wanted due to his blood curse. Likewise Hikari can't break Throne, just as she can't break him, and with their shared blood ties to D'arqest and Vide, and I wonder how much of the Shadow being something of an offshoot, or "servant", to Vide, alongside Throne being the daughter of Vide's intended perfect vessel, potentially has to do with this.

Hikari's Shadow, and Castti and Throne's connections to it, don't explain why he can't break Agnea, but it could be that Agnea's earnest journey for hope and continual optimism even in the face of darkness is something he respects enough that he would never and could never bring himself to harm her, since he believes deeply in her vision of hope.

It's interesting then that he can break Ochette, who is canonically the character who seems to be closest to the Flame, but at the same time both are warriors of a sort, so it could be more of a friendly sparring thing. Osvald makes some sense, in that Hikari is a master of physical combat and Osvald is not, so naturally they're both weak to what the other is skilled in.

Partitio is a bit surprising, but if we take into considering that it's implied Partitio gets into fights on impulse due to being a bit hot-blooded, it does make sense that Hikari, who's always cool and calm under a fight (when he isn't staving off the Shadow) could get the upper hand on Paritio if they sparred.

Hikari being able to break Temenos makes sense in regards to his shared banter with Temenos and Throne, where the three play poker and try to needle each other into giving up, with Throne and Temenos failing to throw each other off, before Hikari ultimately gets them both to give up the game, potentially getting Temenos to cry in the process (which is an incredible feat on Hikari's part, given that Temenos is never shown or implied to cry during the events of his story despite two people he cared deeply about being murdered, and just how careful Temenos is in general with keeping up a certain façade around others).

One last thing I'd like to talk about is the number of other travelers each traveler is weak to, which I think has more to do with game mechanics than with characterization. Every character is weak to five other characters, with the exception of Throne and Partitio who are only weak to four. This is really excellent in terms of mechanics balancing, since the only reason these weaknesses exist is because characters can be charmed during the Dolcinaea fight, so it makes sense that the player should be given a fair shot to break the charmed character with whichever team setup they went into the battle with, especially so for players who go in blind.

Agnea obviously is the major exception to this, being unable to be charmed means we can at best guess at her weaknesses. Which is fitting because the player wouldn't have to worry about losing Agnea in the battle (and generally speaking, in my experience Agnea's usually able to output enough damage by this point in the game that she can retrieve the charmed character with a fully boosted attack without even needing to break them, meaning I, as the player, didn't even have to really worry about who Dolcinaea charmed in terms of strategy). In theory if she could have been charmed, I imagine she would have had 4-5 characters who could break her with their base kit, just for gameplay balancing purposes.

Aaand, that's...all I think I wanted to jot down for my continued observations. With the bonus battle updates to Octo2, I plan to put together a similar post (or two) for the Octo1 travelers, since we now have access to their weaknesses as well. I'm still not trying to make any point per se, just rambling on things I observed and how the game mechanics seem to tie in with story characterization, which I always think is a neat thing when it occurs in games. Thanks for reading if you made it this far, bc this got way longer than I was expecting!

#octopath traveler 2

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besaidcafe · 7 months ago

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the ritsu mishuyo post

AKA how the english localization fucked ritsu over and made him much more unlikable than he was supposed to be

this is a really (i mean really) long post detailing out what i view as the most significant differences between the english localization and the original japanese (technically i used the korean one as a main reference, but i cross-checked the japanese and i will mention if there are discrepancies between the two) for ritsu's dialogue. spoilers for hikari's entire story

firstly, i want to lay out the different ways hikari's NPCs call him because i feel like it's a good way to see what their relationships are like.

benkei uses hikari-sama or denka, with -sama being a honorific indicating a higher rank, usually royalty. denka is just "your highness"

kazan uses hikari-dono, with -dono being a polite honorific that does not necessarily indicate a higher rank. the literal meaning is "lord" or "master", which does apply to kazan's role here

finally, ritsu calls him ouji-dono or simply hikari, with ouji-dono being a combination of prince and -dono (from above) but it is notably different from the usual ouji-sama used for princes and based on the contexts ritsu uses the nickname in, it seems to be a tongue-in-cheek way for ritsu to point out hikari’s lineage. ritsu is also one of the few characters in his story who call him by his name without an honorific (the only other exceptions are his family, all older than him) which indicates closeness.

also my korean translations are closer to literal translations than localizations because... well. that's exactly the difference i'm trying to show. so some sentences sound a bit awkward in english to retain the original meaning but i'm not saying literal translation is better!!! it's just essential to demonstrate my point right now!!!!

chapter 1 (red is hikari, orange is ritsu)

i actually need to begin by talking about hikari's lines here because i feel like the english actually made him sound more blunt than the original (i didn't know this was possible) i think english hikari sounds quite... dismissive of ritsu's words here and "YOU'LL have a place by MY side" feels vastly more self-centered than the original "I'LL always be beside YOU"

i don't like the way ritsu puts himself down so heavily in english ("all i could hope for to be allowed in your presence") vs. him simply pointing out that he's always viewed hikari as someone who's far above him in both status and ability...

there are also a couple of phrases that persist throughout ritsu's screentime; one obviously being the reference to the clouds/sky which is still present in the english but was understandably downplayed, and another being ritsu "following vs. chasing" hikari. i'll get back to the last point later in chapter 5

the above exchange is earlier in chapter 1, but it feels appropriate to bring it up here because it's another example of ritsu's constant comparison of the dirt/ground where he resides compared to the skies/heavens where he places hikari. i quite like the english translation for his line here because references to 天 (heaven) and 地 (earth) tend to sound awkward in english because the concepts aren't as present in the language but the english remedied that by making it heaven and hell. very cool

when the two of them meet again 3 years later, ritsu ONCE AGAIN makes a reference to heaven and earth which was, again, understandably downplayed in english but i feel like it's a nice thread that really exemplifies the way ritsu thinks.

yeah i'm sure it's getting redundant already but i can't stress enough how many times ritsu brings up the heaven and earth thing. also i am not really a fan of how aggressive some of ritsu's accusations tend to be in english ("you never did take me seriously") because it makes him seem even more ungrateful for the times he was actually friends with hikari...

another part of ritsu's core interactions that i think was written off in english is his hyperfixation on lineage and birth. the fact that he's a commoner is still brought up several times, but there are a few moments where you can see that one of ritsu's driving forces behind opposing hikari is proving his worth as a commoner, that hikari wasn't simply born better than him. no matter how high he rises in mugen's army, we see that this train of thought never leaves him.

chapter 3

since this is a translation blog, i feel the need to point out this first line that ritsu says... it's a little different in each of the languages i looked at:

JP: ...their deaths won't change this inequality.

KR: ...their deaths won't change the state of our lives.

EN: ...that won't bring my father back. won't stop this from happening again.

i think they're all interesting versions of the same line but honestly i particularly like the korean one here because it feels very ritsu-like to say that hikari's attempts to help them will not in fact do anything for them... the JP and EN imply the same thing but the phrasing is more general? like he's talking about the general inequality that commoners have to face while KR is much more personal.

i really like this scene because it adds another layer to why ritsu is so obsessed with aiming for the heavens... there isn't much that's different enough to point out but i just wanted to show it

this is also chronologically the first time ritsu uses the "ouji-dono" nickname for hikari! you can see that he's being just polite enough to not get his ass smacked but he's definitely saying it in a way that implies that he doesn't believe in the hierarchy where hikari is above him.

back to the present! i'm really not sure why english decided to translate his line this way because "grr" (angry, sounds like a brat) and "heh" (confident, looking for a fight) give off very different impressions imo... english ritsu seems a little too eager to blame everything on hikari and the idea that hikari is trying to hinder HIM specifically while JP/KR ritsu feels much more pleasantly surprised that he's given another chance to cut hikari down, to make up for his past mistake.

this conversation between ritsu and rou is probably the one i'm most angry about LMAO i really think it's much more effective for ritsu's response at the end to have been disbelief and frustration at the mere notion that hikari might have yet another edge on him thanks to his bloodline, while the english version just had him dismiss rou's words for no reason. when rou is first introduced at the beginning of this chapter, he also points out ritsu's commoner origins and i think ritsu's desperation to prevent this from being a failed mission on his part is at least slightly driven by his frustration towards rou's words... both at the beginning of the chapter and him revealing clan ku's curse here.

chapter 5

another point to note here is that when ritsu lists out all the things he's bought for mikka, the original japanese text literally says "these are all things that were beyond the clouds"... this obviously comes full circle by the end of hikari's story

i was also never a fan of how mikka's last line here makes it sound like she's deferring to ritsu when in actuality her worries haven't been lifted at all...

another example of english ritsu being needlessly self-deprecative when it comes to hikari's opinion of him like "reckon you never thought i'd be general" is so much more aggressive than the original line and i also like hikari's response to it... he acknowledges ritsu's achievement but also the fact that the higher ritsu rose, the more likely he was to be cut down by hikari...

i also think that ritsu's remark at hikari's ambition is very different between the two versions? just like the conversation with rou, in english he seems to dismiss it for no good reason but in the original you can see that ritsu doesn't see the point in trying to rock the boat and only seeks to better life for himself and mikka (his "one precious thing" line also makes it very clear his intention here is protecting mikka...)

this is another exchange that i think was very nerfed in english in regards to hikari's last line... english hikari just says "suffer any loss" but the original clearly says that he would endure the same kind of misery that ritsu did growing up if it means achieving his dreams. i also think hikari saying that he would suffer any loss makes it sound like he's very ready to kill ritsu here which... as you can see in the later dialogue during this battle, is just not true

i feel like my main gripe with the way english ritsu words his lines is how it seems to put the entire blame on hikari ("you're still better than me") while the original has a tone of putting himself down ("i can't reach higher than you") in the same vein i think it makes hikari's response sound a lot less confrontational...

ritsu's last line here... i really wish was translated differently... english ritsu seems very fixated on this path because it's something that he chose but in the original you can see that to ritsu, other paths simply don't exist anymore. joining hikari isn't even an option and it isn't because of his stubbornness, he simply doesn't see another way out of the situation...

i also prefer hikari's original like "so long as mugen stands, this fighting will never end!" because the english version is simply an invitation to defeat mugen together but the original is hikari saying that even if ritsu were to kill hikari here, the fighting would never end (and mikka would never know peace...) "don't spill any more needless blood" follows up on this, because hikari isn't just talking about the battle between him and ritsu right now, he's talking about the path that awaits ritsu if everything goes as he (and mugen) planned. instead of being singularly focused on victory, hikari worries for ritsu even in the event that he ends up being defeated...

the "following vs. chasing" that was initially brought up in chapter 1 comes up again here...

i think there is a huge difference between the wording on ritsu's part, because "follow" implies that he would always be behind hikari while "chase" implies that he will outrun hikari someday... similarly "keep up" and "catch up" also give off a very different impression. ritsu always viewed hikari as a rival and while a part of him thought/knew that he would never be better than hikari, i don't think it makes sense for him to refer to himself as "following" hikari.

and lastly, the final conversation between hikari and mikka... all the sky and clouds talk really pays off here in the original (the absence of clouds = the thing that ritsu was always reaching for is now gone because hikari has torn down the hierarchy)

phew ok i know this is really uselessly long but i wanted to make a big post for ritsu one day because he's my favourite NPC and it's sad how misunderstood he is in the english community because of a few tweaks in the localization... once again i don't think it's a bad localization but given how many people i've seen who were confused by ritsu's character while the japanese fandom seems much more endeared to him, i think that's... saying something....

if this is something that interests you, i highly recommend checking out the japanese voice acting as well! dubbed voice acting is a whole other beast in addition to localization and there are definitely times when i don't agree with the delivery of certain lines, especially if it wasn't even necessarily laid out by the localized text.

anyway i hope i was able to at least change someone's impression of ritsu even the slightest bit through this!! ritsu mishuyo you will always be famous

#ritsu mishuyo #hikari ku #octopath traveler 2 #localization

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