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I don't like things casually, instead I let it consume my entire being.

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I was thinking about Elain’s book and who the big bad could be, and had a thought. So, I’ve always been torn between it being Koschei and Beron-- but what if it’s the remaining Mortal Queens and Graysen and his family. Think about it: Elain’s in the Spring Court with Lucien. Lucien tries to see his friends whenever he can, especially since Vassa’s freedom is ticking away and the Exiles seem to be the main ones investigating the Mortal Queens. Vassa and Jurian’s estate was given to them by Graysen’s family and Graysen visits them on occasion. Elain, secretly still craving her human life still (and also probably genuinely wanting to help), decides to join Lucien to see his friends-- and to try and reconnect with Graysen. There’s a period of time where it seems like Graysen is genuinely starting to see her again, but it all ends with Graysen and his family selling them all out to the Mortal Queens, and Elain and/or Lucien being captured (would love if Elain goes all scorched Earth to find and save him).

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Elain about the queens:

And it was Elain—Elain—who sighed and murmured, “I hope they all burn in hell.”

Elain to Nesta about Feyre:

“Nesta,” Elain said again, twisting her hands. “If … if we do not help Feyre, there won’t be a wedding. Even Lord Nolan’s battlements and all his men, couldn’t save me from … from them.” / “Feyre gave and gave—for years. Let us now help her. Help … others.”

Elain’s eyes flickered. “Did Feyre pay you, like last year?”

“Please don’t upset Feyre. It’s her birthday, first of all. And in her state—”

Elain to Nesta about herself:

“You think I’m to blame for his death?” Challenge filled each word. Challenge—from Elain, of all people. “No one but the King of Hybern is to blame for that.”

“I am not a child to be fought over.”

So no, I don't buy the "it's clear how Elain feels about Lucien" arguments based on her ignoring him or that "her silence speaks for her" on whether she wants to reject the bond.

Elain is kind and polite but when something is taking place that she feels strongly about, she has no problem speaking up and no problem addressing that person directly. Within moments of meeting Lucien she went from, "you betrayed us" to "I can hear your heart" but I'm supposed to believe that over two years later she can't figure out a way to tell him with words not to come around and that she wants to break their bond? Especially if she knows Lucien's presence bothers Azriel?

That's not to say Elain shows all her cards, she is still a private person, but if she truly did not have any interest in Lucien or their bond and was truly uncomfortable with him being around for the reasons some think, if she truly cared about Az and his feelings on the scent of her bond, she has proven she's quite capable of vocalizing how she feels yet she never has. She stood up to Nesta on behalf of Feyre but has not stood up to Lucien on behalf of Az.

That Sarah has never given her a POV where we're given her true thoughts of Lucien tells me all I need to know. A bonus that could have had Elain ending her bond with Lucien which would then clear her path to ending up with someone else in her book. But instead, it's March 7, 2025 and Elucien are still (and forever) mates.

If Elucien was mated in someone else's book than surely if the bond is such a non issue for her, she can become "unmated" in someone else's book. She was engaged / rejected by her fiance in a POV that wasn't hers so why the need for this particular plotline to happen only in her book if, as some say, it's already a done deal for her? That it's canon she doesn't want him therefore will never end up with him?

Elain has not broken the bond with Lucien when she's proven herself quite capable of telling others off and that also tells me all I need to know.

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Okay but... Lucien respecting Elains strong connection to her human life and courting her like a human man rather than a fae...

Forcing Jurian and Vassa to teach him what to do

Endless studying and reading human books

'Calling' on her and taking walks in the garden

Writing her letters

Getting Papa Archerons approval when they spent time together on the ship

"I can't make you human again, but I can give you the love you've always wanted"

Proposing marriage by getting down on one knee

A wedding and exchanging rings

Caling each other husband and wife

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I'm halfway through Queen of Shadows and bam,

✨the thread✨ appears:

Aelin felt as if she was Rowan.

Sounds familiar, right?

Feysand and the thread (tugged) , Feyre's ability to see through Rhysand's eyes.

Nessian and the thread.

Unfortunately, no info on feeling as if she was Cassian.

Elucien, Elain feeling the pull of the thread tied to a rib (almost middle). Like Feyre.

So no, Elucien's bond is real and described the same as others in SJM books.

Case closed once again.

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When Nessian made their bargain, it was Nesta's magic that chose the Starborn design, but the logo appeared on Cassian's back intertwined with his Illyrian markings.

I didn't think too much about this in ACOSF because I thought the tattoo was in relation to Nesta's training, but HOFAS proved that wrong and pointed towards Nesta being Starborn, with the Dusk Court and Illyria plots potentially being interwoven. The ACOTAR pieces important to the crossover were:

• Nesta & Azriel

• Starborns & Illyrians

• Queen Theia & Enalius

• Gwydion & Truth-Teller

• The Prison & Ramiel

• Dusk Court & Illyria

• The Dread Trove & the Cauldron

Nesta's future storyline lies exclusively with being Starborn/scion of Queen Theia/Gwydion/The Prison/Dusk Court and Az's storyline lies with the Illyrians/Enalius/Truth-Teller/Ramiel/Illyria.

I have no doubt that Nesta will be vital to the Ramiel plot since she's the only one who hasn't touched the stone atop the mountain, which the Daglan were trying desperately to reach. I'm sure when she touches it, it will transport them inside the mountain, and they can see what ancient hands carved up inside, especially since it seems the Illyrians were hiding/protecting the Cauldron in Ramiel.

Some other tie-ins with the Dusk Court and Illyria would be the Valkyries. They're not just Valkyries, but Valkyries reborn, which means they're fighting techniques are a mix of Valkyrie and Illyrian. They were forced to participate in, and won, the Illyrian Blood Rite. There seems to be foreshadowing of a potential upcoming Valkyrie/Illyrian conflict, not including the fact that there will be a conflict if the Illyrians ever find out that Cassian was forced to enter the Rite, even if it was against his will. There may also be some Illyrian/Emerie conflict with her being the first Illyrian woman to be crowned Carynthian, and since I'm sure she'll eventually be getting multiple Siphons to contain her killing power.

The Valkyries are also tied in with the Dusk Court via Nesta. All signs point towards Nesta being a Starborn descendent of Queen Theia, which would make her the rightful heir to the Dusk Court. Nesta and Gwyn are moonlight-coded characters, and both have been seen "glowing" at various times. The original territory of the Valkyries has been subsumed, so when Nesta reawakens the Dusk Court, logically that will become their new territory.

Anywho, these are just my thoughts on how Nessian, Gwynriel, and the Valkyries can be tied into the future Dusk Court/Illyria plots leftover from both ACOSF and HOFAS.

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"Elain has no interest in Lucien"

But that's where the story lies, isn't it? Because you couldn't really say that in ACOWAR. She was a little salty towards him during their first meeting but she quickly followed that up with sharing a very emotional confession with him. Even though she was in love with Graysen and wanted to return to Graysen, she stared at Lucien on a few occasions. She made sure that she went to see him as he departed for the human lands / continent to search for Vassa. She chose to leave her father's grave to walk with both Feyre and Lucien, peering up at Lucien. She was standing close to Lucien at the meeting after the war and did not pull away. Elain only stared at him for a long moment. Before that dark wind sept in, Lucien looked back. Not to me, I realized - to someone behind me. Pale and thin, Elain stood atop the stairs. Their gazes locked and held. And when Lucien turned to signal to Rhys to go...He did not glance back at Elain. Did not see the half step she took towards the stairs - as if she'd speak to him. Stop him. Letting my sisters decide to follow or remain - if they wanted a moment alone with that burnt grass. Elain came. Nesta stated. Elain fell into step beside me, peering at Lucien.

Lucien now stood in the sitting room, close to Elain's side.

Then...... Elain, at least, would be too polite to send Lucien away when he wanted to help. She was too polite to send him away on a normal day. She just ignored him or barely spoke to him until he got the hint and left. As far as I knew, he hadn't come within touching distance since the aftermath of that final battle. So in one book, we have Elain choosing to walk beside Lucien, peer up at Lucien, stand beside Lucien. And in the next, with absolutely no reason given as to why, we have Lucien no longer coming within touching distance of Elain (though he stood close to her after the war), and Elain now ignoring him. For a best selling author, it would be pretty poor writing for her to write them the way she did in ACOWAR then expect us to just accept this complete 180 with absolutely no reason given as to why that's happened and we're just supposed to move on with the story with no questions asked. The fact that there are still lingering questions as to what caused this abrupt change from the end of ACOWAR means there is still a story there. Readers still want to know why Elain suddenly began ignoring Lucien after ACOWAR left them on a positive / hopeful note. We saw something similar to happen between Nesta and Cassian, from ACOWAR to ACOFAS and we were given those answers in Nesta's book so I'm not sure why people would think anyone is delusional for thinking this best selling author is going to give readers the same resolution in Elain's book. The story has always been and will always be about Elain and Lucien's bond and the many ups and downs to a HEA. We had a little glimpse of that possibility in ACOWAR then Sarah snatched it away, which one can use logic to realize it's because she's only biding her time until she's ready to write Elain's story. Nesta's downward spiral was what kept she and Cassian apart in the novella until Sarah was ready to write their journey and for Elain she went the "I don't want a mate so I'll instead fixate on the only eligible guy in my orbit who isn't my mate!" route. But none of those obstacles were things that would prevent the end result Sarah always envisioned for these characters, and in Elain's case it's the fact that she took Sarah and Lucien by surprise by being the one for him.

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I agree with your post that Azriel was an asshole in that scene 100%. But I think making it seem like Elain didn’t have a choice whatsoever in that moment is also why people keep saying the fandom infantilizes her. She was wrong too for thinking it was okay to do that especially when Lucien was there. Again I agree that Azriel acted like an ass there, but Elain wasn’t forced to do anything with him. Let’s start treating her like the adult she is in this fandom. If you want Azriel to apologize to Elain, then Elain should apologize to Azriel too because she was aware she’s a mated female and still chose to accept that kiss.

I actually don't agree with this take and it sounds like you're confusing infantilizing a character with what is you wrongly thinking a female somehow owes a guy something. A guy who, even if she's confused and secretly wants him, has not at this time been giving him any mixed signals therefore her actions were not in any way "cheating" or disloyal.

How was Elain in the wrong for exploring something outside of one likely super serious commitment after she just got out of a super serious commitment when she has currently made no commitment to anyone?

I LOVE Lucien, my heart breaks for Lucien but I also realize how much Elain has gone through.

Lucien lost Jesminda but spent the next how many centuries having casual liaisons with others. Yet for some reason people think Elain has to go from an engagement with Graysen immediately into a super serious mating bond which is a forever sort of thing. Somehow she has to accept her bond with Lucien RIGHT NOW because .....? Why? Why is she not allowed to have a hot girl summer before maybe deciding to explore the thing someone else decided for her. Make no mistake, I am all here for Elucien's story and the reluctant soul mates / arranged marriage trope but that doesn't mean she's not entitled to take time to herself without worrying about Lucien's feelings. Did you forget everything she's been through in the last two years on their timeline? Lost her entire life in the human lands, rejected by her fiance, forced to become a species she grew up fearing, had to stab someone, lost her father and on top of that everyone seems to expect that she focus on Lucien. Everyone but Lucien of course because he's a complete green flag which is why he is her endgame. But she's allowed to be a 24 year old girl processing trauma even if that means having a meaningless fling just to see if she's ready to get back on the dating horse.

Rarely does the fandom fault Nesta for all but confessing her love to Cassian, being willing to die by Cassian's side then turning around and (without any sort of discretion) sleeping with MANY other males, something he was fully aware of.

Elain did not set out to hook up with Az that night, she thought everyone was asleep. And yes, Lucien was in the house but as far as we know he was also asleep and not aware which means she was a lot more discreet than Nesta had been.

Elain does not need to apologize to Az for anything because Az was fully aware she has a mating bond. They both chose not to discuss her mating bond, Az never asked her whether she planned on rejecting it which means he was fine moving forward without those answers. And just because she has a bond doesn't mean she owes Lucien loyalty. Again, Nesta suspected Cassian was something to her yet she still went on to hook up with multiple others.

Infantilizing Elain is when others act like she's the only person who never had a choice therefore she HAS to end up with Az, that somehow ending up with Lucien isn't a choice because "we need to respect what she wants" as if she's not a fictional character whose wants can change from one book to the next.

Acknowledging that Az hurt Elain in that moment and not the other way around is what happened and I think if you somehow think Elain needs to apologize to HIM than that is you infantilizing a 500 something year old guy with communication issues.

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Keep telling me I'm not pro Elain just because I'm not trying to force her into a box that she has never been hinted to fit in— because I ship her with the guy that is canonically the one she is compatible with and who sees her and isn't trying to limit her— it actually just shows how weak your standpoint is. All because "it's what she currently wants," not taking into account how she has— canonically— rejected him, or how she doesn't know that Lucien is the one to advocate for her wellbeing while Az actively goes against her wants.

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You can be pro Elain Archeron and still ship her with Lucien.

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𝑻𝒉𝒓𝒆𝒂𝒅𝒔 𝒐𝒇 𝑭𝒂𝒕𝒆 ⚜️

This commission is so deeply close to our hearts. We wanted to show the threads of the mate bond between Elain and Lucien. Especially since Elain herself described the bond as a “thread tied to a rib” in ACOWAR.

jjflorentina did an excellent job at showing the threads of the mate bond connecting Elain and Lucien; and for creating this sweet embrace between them! Thank you so much jjflorentina It’s always an absolute pleasure to work with you. You’re so kind and talented. You truly created a spectacular piece! It’s so beautiful 💞💞

Commissioned by @amandapearls & @lulufoxlainfawn & @goghwilde Artist is jjflorentina on IG Characters belong to Sarah J Maas

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Thanks again for this thought @acourtdelaluna!

Graysen loved Elain, wanted Elain, until the first true test of his devotion and loyalty to her. She was changed against her will and he gave up on their love.

Azriel wanted to hook up with Elain, he asked why "the third was given to another." Yet less than a day after Rhys called him out, Az backed down. When confronted with the first test to prove he had any real feelings for Elain, he walked away and there is no canon evidence to suggest he still wants her.

Lucien though, has been hit with test after test. First when he found out she was engaged and in love with Graysen. Then after she began ignoring him in the novella. Yet Lucien still clearly wants Elain. The longing is evident on his face to Feyre, to Cassian. No matter what test Lucien has been given, his loyalty has always been to Elain and the only reason he's kept his distance is because he knows it's what she needs / wants right now but he is still there waiting for her in a way that no other love interest has been.

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I fully believe that the reason that Elain just kind of appears sometimes is because she knows how to winnow. When Bryce is talking to Nesta in CC, she asks if Nesta can winnow, and Nesta basically says "I don't know, I've never really tried." I think that specific line is supposed to draw us to wonder if someone whose Made even has the ability to winnow, leading into Elain's book where we discover she not only knows how to, but has for a while.

Maybe she's been teaching herself, because we have seen how observant and curious she is. Or maybe she herself isn't even aware she's doing it, she just thinks "let me go check on Nesta," turns and is suddenly standing in front of Nesta, and she dismisses it as her dissociating. I love the symbolism of her visions and maybe winnowing making her feel out of touch with reality, like she's just a ghost.

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So personally I take Gwynriel's Light and Dark imagery in two ways: sunsets and shallow waters sinking into an abyss. And it had me thinking about cute things revolving around this, like Gwyn swimming to the surface of the ocean as Azriel plunges down from the stars to meet her. They really just give "I love you from the stars to the deepest depths of the sea."

I'm not nearly good enough of an artist or writer to do anything with this but I just thought I'd share.

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I really hope E/riels know that the reason we don’t like their ship is because they have to rely on bad faith arguments to even be taken seriously.When I first joined this fandom I wasn’t anti-e/riel until I saw all of their shitty takes and thought, ‘Oh, if that’s seriously their best points then there really must not be validity there.” Sure enough, I’ve combed through these books twice and have read everything to do with Elain, Lucien, Azriel, and Gwyn countless times and there is always some caveat that weakens E/riel and strengthens Elucien/Gwynriel.

Let me just hit a few of my favorite points here:

“Elain and Azriel are going to get together but then break up because they’re not endgame.”

Yes, because all signs are pointing to them not being compatible in any good way that will sustain a healthy relationship, and I have so much faith in that to the point I can safely say that even if they do try it out it’s not going to work out. Them working out would be the curveball imo. Also, it’s incredibly telling that most E/riels I’ve seen would rather Elain go behind Lucien’s back and break the bond without ever really talking to him than just being open to him directly and deciding on that mutually-- really goes to show how confident they are in their ship that they desperately don’t want them to interact.

“Shadow dance/Spark/Ribbon/Sunshine.”

Literally all of these are completely valid foreshadowing moments the same way the rose symbolism is-- except roses have canonically only ever hurt Elain. It’s not a coincidence that the same book that introduces Gwyn (who’s tied to dancing, singing, and light) we happen to see a more playful side of Azriel (who admits he likes to sing and whose shadows dance to Gwyn’s breath). And there was no reason for the “you’re the new ribbon” line beyond setting up a new dynamic between Gwyn and Az. As for sunshine: Lucien first uses his spell-cleaver gift to save Elain, Elain mentions multiple times craving sunlight, is always looking to sunlight, and although Az and Feyre save Elain from the Hybern camp only Helion could break her chains. You have to be willfully ignorant to not see the dots.

“Elain is a fictional character she has no wants but needs growth.”

Funny how they conveniently leave out that the first half of this statement is the response to certain E/riels literally calling Elucien shippers terrible people for “disregarding” Elain’s wants. And, yes, Elain needs growth because that’s the fucking point of a book and she has unresolved plot points-- points like dealing with her father’s death and being forced into the Cauldron. She wouldn't be getting a book if she didn't.

“It’s just lust for Azriel.”

Personally I don’t think a guy should be jerking off to the thought of a woman he’s not even willing to fight for or advocate for. Maybe if he’s not going to consider anything else with her he should keep his hands to himself (or off himself I guess).

“Elain can’t handle Azriel’s darkness.”

I’ve never seen an Elucien make this point but ironically Azriel himself has-- another example of how little he actually sees her.

I don’t even necessarily think Elucien/Gwynriel is 100% guaranteed to happen, but I think it has way more evidence and when these are the counterpoints it’s hard to see E/riel’s potential.

E/riels are the biggest fans of Gwynriel/elucien theories

So I came across this post where this person is literally giving their own interpretation of WHAT WE THINK ABOUT THESE THEORIES.

Mind you they just WRITE THE THEORY AND PRETEND TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE MINDS OF AN ENTIRE COMMUNITY.

I mean how boring does your ship have to be to actually ANALYSE THE THOUGHT PROCESS of the shippers you HATE.

This person's entire account is just this.

"Elain POV isn't needed"

Then respect her actions of returning the necklace and rejecting Az.

Other two theories I have literally not seen talked in our communities but they do have to make stuff up so they can hate on us.

E/riel isn't predictable it is simply boring.

"its just lust" is literally CANINCALLY WRITTEN LINE THAT SJM WROTE. You going against that is showing little you value Canon.

And obviously the sparks and glows haunt them forever. Like you can put it and spell it in front of them but they will still ignore the evidence and act like a broken record repeating same senseless things again and again.

Elain vomited at the sight of violence so really idk why they are forcing her to be this darkness loving sunshine girly.

Elain WASN'T LOOKING BAD IN NIGHTCOURT BLACK. IT SUCKED THE LIFE OUT OF HER AND THIS IS CANONICALLY WRITTEN. They obviously ignored the canon and wrote their own interpretation.

Gwyn can't heal Az neither can Elain. He is a grown ass man who needs to heal himself.

IT IS A ROMANCE BOOK WITH VERY TRAUMATISED CHARACTERS. THE BOOK IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT BOTH THE CAHARCTERS HEALING FROM THAT TRAUMA.

I will not even discuss the other outlandishly stupid stuff written in this post.

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People dismissing this quote in particular tells me how much they actually care about Elain as a character. I don't even think it has to necessarily be tied to Lucien to matter, it just currently seems to being leaning that way if you're actually analyzing her character. Tarquin in the Summer Court? Would be wonderful because I could see Tarquin matching her compassion and wanting to change the status quo/build more bridges, but obviously this is incredibly unlikely since they've never even met. Being single and High Lady of Spring Court? Amazing! The Court was practically made for her and she doesn't need a man to be happy, but at the end of the day this is a romance series so also unlikely.

Elain and Lucien taking over the Spring Court from Tamlin (who doesn't like to lead anyway), and healing the court both physically and emotionally through courtier-like charm? Just seems the most likely to me. Elain has been hinted to belong there numerous times. And Lucien probably knows the court better than anyone, maybe on par with Tamlin. Also, Helion probably won't die anytime soon anyway, so I don't think his heritage will entirely matter from a heir-stance.

“no matter how much she claimed to be a part of this court…it sucked the life from her.”

no. matter. how. much. she. claimed. to. be. a. part. of. this. court. it. sucked. the. life. from. her.

!!!!!

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“If E/riel isn’t endgame then why would SJM write such a hot scene between them?”

Because the general audience wants Azriel smut. That is literally it. I promise it does not matter who his love interest is, casual fans just want to read his sex scenes. This is blatantly obvious across the majority of the internet— people read these books for the spicy scenes and aren’t invested in particular ships like fans doing deep-dives are. It is literally the same thing as Lucien being hyper-sexualized in the beginning of WaR to build up to his eventual book (which regardless of who you ship everyone agrees he will eventually be a MMC). Last I checked, Lucien and Feyre don’t end up together despite her using him to make Tamlin jealous or even their flirting in TaR. I’m really not trying to be dismissive of these books for their story or anything, because I personally only started reading them because my sister said they were high-action and I’m clearly invested at this point, but I am most definitely an outlier when you look at how people interact with these books and the genre in general. Even the casual fans that say they ship E/riel only really focus on “wingspan” or how he’s probably a freak in bed.