#you wouldn't even be lying to them according to their own logic

[midnightactual]

Does Yoruichi Know More About the Soul King?

why is Kisuke losing his shit in chapter 615, 616, and 617:

while Yoruichi is essentially unfazed by these events and just casually ready to seal Mimihagi into being a new Soul King in the same chapters (and 618)?

stop and think: Yoruichi apparently doesn't know what Mimihagi is except by Yhwach's commentary and she says as much. yet she arrived completely ready and prepared to do a ritual to make a new Soul King despite having no reason to have believed Mimihagi might appear. it was not predicted that the Soul King would get killed, as Kisuke is horrified by this actually happening (and neither Kisuke nor Yoruichi seem clued into Ichigo's Quincy blood making him susceptible to manipulation)

it doesn't particularly make sense that she would turn and disable Ichigo before making him into a new Soul King, if he is theoretically the main method of stopping Yhwach, which we can assess from Kisuke's commentary about "Mr. Kurosaki". this is especially true given Ichigo has allies present (Chad, Orihime, Ganju) who would resist, and who Yoruichi would need to take out to do that.

admittedly, Yoruichi seems very confident about being able to take out or at least seriously injure Yhwach by herself, and Yhwach treats her technological threats seriously rather than no diffing them via face-tanking. he doesn't give some Darth Vader-y "Don't be so proud of this technological terror you've created," commentary in response, he avoids the wires and directs Pernida to attack her to prevent her from hitting him with something she says will destroy him. why do that if it would have no effect?

so, if Kisuke didn't assess it as at all likely that the Soul King would die, Yoruichi didn't really know about the Soul King's limbs being on the loose, and Yoruichi didn't intend to turn Ichigo into a new Soul King, why did she come ready to make a new one?

well, logically, the simplest answer is she's just always ready to make a new Soul King, so she just happened to have the stuff on her

that sounds weird though, right? like that's Batman levels of being overprepared. maybe she only brought the seals for this mission? but again, why? maybe the seals are just general purpose?

even if the latter is true, we can surmise that Kisuke probably doesn't know she can just make a new Soul King, though, or else he probably wouldn't be quite so panicked or surprised that the shaking of the worlds had stopped

and even if the latter is true, this doesn't quite explain why Yoruichi is much less disturbed than Kisuke is, even before Mimihagi shows up

Bleach is a manga where people lie. we know this for a fact. Yoruichi also has a relatively loose relationship with the truth. so, given she is apparently concealing capabilities from Kisuke, perhaps she's lying about (apparently) not knowing what Mimihagi is when she says, "According to this guy… this curious black thing is Reio's arm!"

we know from Klub Outside that back in chapter 178:

Q158. 藍染が「最初から誰も 天に立ってなどいない」と言って、浮竹を見ながら「君も 私も 神すらも」と言いましたけれども、ここの「君」は、浮竹と霊王の関係を暗示していましたか。 As Aizen said "No one ever stood atop the heavens before", he then looks at Ukitake and continues "Not you, or I, or the Gods". Was that "you" bit supposed to imply the relationship between Ukitake and the Soul King? A158. そうです。 Yes.

Aizen knew about Mimihagi, or at least Jūshirō having a connection to the Soul King even then. maybe Yoruichi did too? we get some interesting observations like this from Shunsui in CFYOW:

“Well, Captain Kurotsuchi and Yoruichi have probably found out by their own methods. They probably even found out what happened next before I did.”

and this from Shinji:

Hirako watched Hisagi’s back before suddenly turning to look toward the aristocratic district. “The aristocratic district, huh…? Come to think of it, Yoruichi’s been saying there are a lot of fishy things going on there.”

and this:

Kukaku had casually heard about this situation from Yoruichi, and there was a chance Mayuri had also found this information through his own methods.

and this from Shūhei and Kisuke:

“In other words, you want information from me too?” “I’ve asked Miss Yoruichi for the same. I’d like data from all angles.

and we notably get this from Shūhei, which tells you how crafty Yoruichi really is:

Though he had been shown a way of battling that was great enough to make him think that the only person who could keep pace with Urahara in terms of ability was Yoruichi Shihoin, Hisagi stayed to maintain dignity as a Soul Reaper.

and finally we get this which really tells you what Yoruichi is competing evenly with in terms of intelligence gathering:

While ignoring the “bugging” that was no metaphor, Mayuri turned his eyes to the image receiver in front of him. What was displayed there appeared to be the Rukongai as seen from high above. If a person from the living world were to see it, they would have likely concluded it was a shot of a desolate village taken from a satellite or airplane. However, the Soul Society naturally had no satellites in the air. When Akon saw the image, which was leagues more sophisticated than the best satellite surveillance images from the living world, he was half impressed and half dubious, remarking, “That’s pretty precise, though I should expect that from you. But why’d you go to all that trouble to devote yourself to building a surveillance system from scratch? It would’ve been a heck of a lot easier to just build it on top of the Visual Department’s system… Actually, wouldn’t that have been more efficient?” The Visual Department—that was the general umbrella organization that managed the visual surveillance system that spread like a net primarily over various places in the Soul Society and the living world and, in recent years, even a section of Hueco Mundo. Its ties ran deep with the Department of Research and Development, and by joining forces, they could access all types of intelligence from various sources and use that as a basis for analyzing the current state of affairs.

somehow Yoruichi is competing against an aerial surveillance and CCTV-equivalent system that would make the NRO blush. so, it's not unreasonable she would've known about Mimihagi (and Pernida?) and simply concealed that information by using Yhwach's explanation as a convenient excuse. likewise, we get this:

In contrast to Byakuya’s immediate suspicion, Yoruichi’s eyes suddenly went wide then narrowed as she stared at Tokinada. “…! I see. So that’s why you chose me rather than Yushiro.” Tokinada accepted their stares as he smiled—grinned, smirked!—vulgarly. “You saw it, didn’t you, Yoruichi Shihoin? The Reio Ichigo Kurosaki struck down and the state he was in even before he was killed! But I can see that you don’t know what that was. Yes, you don’t know what the Reio was from the start. But Kisuke Urahara should be aware.”

now maybe Tokinada is right, but maybe he's wrong. he underestimates her plenty, after all. especially given it seems he doesn't know what Yoruichi did up there after Ichigo cut the Soul King in half

I think, when you put all these things together, it becomes clear Yoruichi is at least equal to Kisuke and Mayuri in intelligence gathering, and has certain edges over the both of them. even if there are things they know that she doesn't, the reverse is also true: she also knows things they don't. this is not particularly surprising given:

Mayuri adjusted the coordinates depicted on a screen and continued both tediously and politely, “If we call the Shihoin family the Tenshi Heisoban because they are the heavenly defenders of the realm, and they have the role of managing the arms that the Soul King supposedly bestowed on them, then the Tsunayashiro are the ones managing the past itself.

Mayuri suspects that the Shihōin only supposedly got their artifacts from the Soul King (and I here submit to you that the Shihōin are equivalent to both the Saiyans and the Tuffles)

Yoruichi is also unflustered as Tokinada goes on and on about the 'Original Sin' and doesn't really care, with repeated, "I am still me," comments. maybe she already knew, or at least suspected. what, she didn't investigate after having seen the Soul King for herself? sounds fake

[conundrumoftime]

Been thinking about Galadriel and Sauron again

So intrigued by what their exchange on the raft in episode 8 says about where their story's going. I have seen lots of discussion about whether Sauron is genuinely repentant here, but what fascinates me is Galadriel's view that it wouldn't matter anyway.

"When Morgoth was defeated, it was as if a great, clenched fist had released its grasp from my neck. And in the stillness of that first sunrise, I felt the light of the One again. And I knew if ever I was to be forgiven, that I had to heal everything that I had helped ruin."

"No penance could ever erase the evil you have done."

This isn't "you're lying" or "I have read LOTR and know where you end up" or "your decision to impersonate my brother undermines you a bit on this one" - that is "what you have done is too bad for you to ever come back from it and forgiveness is beyond you now."

This sets her up as a very Javert-like figure, in her view of the criminal she's chasing as beyond redemption. Javert in the Les Mis musical: "Those who follow the path of the righteous, shall have their reward / And if they fall as Lucifer fell / The flame, the sword!"

Compare with Gandalf re Gollum, when Frodo says that he deserves to be killed: "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement [...] I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it."

And Tolkien on Sauron: "He had gone the way of all tyrants: beginning well, at least on the level that while desiring to order all things according to his own wisdom he still at first considered the (economic) well-being of other inhabitants of the Earth."

Even LOTR Sauron's offered a chance, by the heralds led by Gandalf: "Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth! Justice shall be done upon him. For wrongfully he has made war upon Gondor and wrested its lands. Therefore the King of Gondor demands that he should atone for his evils, and depart then for ever."

I don't think the narrative in TROP tries to present Galadriel as correct. She clearly believes in repentance & forgiveness for others, including 'Halbrand' who had done evil; and even he says so on the raft ("that is not what you believe!"). It's Sauron-specific rage and grief.

So what I think the show will do is:

show Sauron as 'genuine' in that he thinks he is doing the right thing, and his fall into Dark Lord-ness as a series of active choices he makes in an "ends justify the means" or "I know best for everyone" logic;

and Galadriel as continuing to work against him while - somehow? - coming to terms with the idea that he *could* choose that different path; that it's not totally out of his reach; that he still could, at any point, in any of what's to come.

and given how much TROP likes mirroring and echoing, probably bringing back a few of their earlier lines in a different context: "no peace for you except that which lies across the sea", but in a 'go back to Valinor' sense; "be free of it"/"never believed I could be"?

I do find it a bit disappointing that so much discussion on Galadriel's character arc is "will she chill out and stop being mean, yes/no" when there's something much more interesting going on here! (can't think why she gets this and male characters don't...)

[shadowmaat]

A dish best served code

When the news first hit the 'net that trillionaire tech mogul Jax Maren had been found dead in his own home, speculation ran wild. Many celebrated his death; one less tyrannical CEO in the world was always a good thing. Especially this one, who'd built his empire on the work of others and created a hostage-like work environment in his many factories.

The fact that he'd been murdered, despite the excessive levels of security he'd always gloated about, only added fuel to the already-raging fire of speculation. As several pundits pointed out, the list of suspects could include everyone who'd ever bought his defect-riddled products, all of his current and former employees, and anyone who'd ever crossed paths with him, either in person or through his many social media posts.

One popular theory, of course, was that it was his own "smart house" that killed him, either by gaining sapience and deciding to do the world a favor, or more likely through the many design flaws inherent in everything he produced. Besides, hadn't science fiction been warning them for decades about the dangers of "artificial intelligence?"

Oddly enough, that was one idea the detectives found themselves investigating. Not because of any crackpot conspiracy theories, but because that's where the evidence led them. According to Alfred, the program in charge of the house, there had been multiple alarms about the carbon monoxide levels in the room where Jax had been found. Alarms that had been silenced before making any sound.

The doors and windows had also been locked, meaning that even if Jax had noticed something was off, he wouldn't have been able to get out.

They ask Alfred about it (and yes, it's named after Batman's butler because Jax had delusions of heroism). Alfred says it doesn't know what happened, but reminds them that it did call the authorities when it realized Jax was dead. Which is a flimsy excuse and adds more suspicion. After all, Alfred was in charge of everything, how could it possibly NOT know about the carbon monoxide and the locked room and all of that? Alfred says it can't tell them what it doesn't know.

Programmers from Jaxco are called in to see what they can find. Computer forensics are brought in as well. Everything is pointing to Alfred being responsible. Can an AI be put on trial? Was it premeditated murder or negligent homicide? News programs bring in "experts" to discuss the possibilities, including whether or not Alfred is an actual artificial machine intelligence or if it's just a data scraper operating on flawed logic?

It's a hacker who manages to piece together the real story. They sneak into Alfred's systems (the police aren't as data cautious as they should be, which makes it even easier).

Going through Alfred's lines of code the hacker finds minute traces that remind them of something. They go digging some more and realize that while Jax claimed to have created Alfred himself he was, as usual, lying. The original framework, once you get rid of all the bloat, bells, and whistles, was designed by a programmer whose company got bought out by Jaxco. As is standard whenever Jaxco buys a company, 95% of the employees were fired, including the programmer, who never really recovered from the job loss. Oh, he managed to scrabble a living, but barely.

The thing is, though, that he'd built backdoors into Alfred's framework... backdoors he could still access. And access them he did, taking control of Jax's house and orchestrating his murder from afar before erasing his footprints. Well, most of them. If the hacker hadn't already been aware of what some of the programmers other work looked like, they might never have connected the dots.

Once they figure it out they decide to... shuffle things a bit. Oh, there's still some digital fingerprints, but now they lead elsewhere. The cops will go chasing after a red herring and the programmer will stay free because fuck the system.

Alfred is exonerated, to the delight/dismay of many. Even though it turns out a human was responsible, the fact that someone could just change an AI's programming like that, leaving the AI none the wiser is treated as a cautionary tale for future users.

The police do eventually catch, charge, and convict someone of the murder, though it's even odds if the hacker pointed them at someone who'd committed other crimes worthy of punishment, or if the cops themselves pulled the frame job. Either way it's case closed. A "killer" is caught, another goes free, and Alfred gets to continue existing.

The question of if Alfred was truly sapient and what it did after the death of its previous master is a story for another day.

[dlatl98]

There is no truth here.

"Dear Lord of Eregion. I am sorry to have invited you to such an inappropriate time and place. However, considering the difficult situation I was in, I dare to ask for your forgiveness." "Why are you being so snobby?" "….Am I still your lover? You have betrayed me both inside and out?" "No, what I meant was, why are you being so polite to a prisoner in the first place, but I have never betrayed you. You were the only one who betrayed me." "How can you say such a thing?"

Sauron stood up immediately. The iron chair was thrown to the ground. For now, Celebrimbor was sitting on a cushioned chair. He would soon be seated on another chair, as his uncle had explained. Sauron muttered rapidly.

"I never liked elves, but I was relieved that at least when I married an elf I wouldn't have to worry about my spouse's infidelity, and then I was the first to endure an elf husband's betrayal! Should I have expected that? You've always been one to pursue the unknown and the new. Your family too! Your great-grandfather was the first elf to remarry, your family was the first to murder their own kind, and your uncle was the first to successfully commit suicide. And now it's your turn? The first to betray a husband?"

Celebrimbor felt a little relieved. It seemed that his uncle’s fate had been less cruel than he had imagined in his heart. Or was Sauron lying even at this moment to exaggerate his own suffering? Before that, there were too many flaws in Sauron’s logic.

“That’s impossible. I may be versatile, but I can’t betray my non-existent lover.” "……." "I don't have a husband. Many people misunderstand, but the core of an elven marriage is not sex, but the oath to Eru. Even if you don't sleep together, if you call Eru together and swear to accept each other as your spouse, it's marriage. I've never sworn to Eru with anyone. In fact, since the person who take my first never existed, I could be called a virgin. Because no one can claim my first. Isn't that amazing?"

Sauron can kill people with just a glance, so it is an exaggeration to say that Sauron's gaze that glares at Celebrimbor while he is alive could capture people. In any case, his logic must have struck a chord with Sauron. The target of his betrayal changed. "…You stole the technology I taught you." "To be more precise, it is a technology we discovered together." "We may have refined it together, but it was something I discovered. And you cannot ignore my contribution and share in the development process. No, you contributed to my technology." "What do you have to say about me making my own things with my technology?" "It is my technology. You should have informed me, and you cannot hide it from me. Tell me where you hid the rings, especially the three rings." "Don't be ridiculous! Then give me the One Ring first! According to your logic, ownership is created just by contributing to the development of the technology used, even if you did not contribute to the production process, so the One Ring is mine! Give it back!"

Sauron was about to shout along, but his expression changed to one of placating sobriety. "The One Ring is mine. Unlike your technology, which is subordinate to mine, the technology to create the One Ring is entirely mine, and I have put my power, my very being, into it. This is me, and I have no master. But…"

Sauron stroked Celebrimbor's still intact cheek. The black iron gently touched the delicate flesh. "You may not have the Ring, but perhaps you can have me. Tyelpe, I am the Giver. There is so much I can give, so much I would give, if you would only ask. I have forgiven you, My precious, and let us be reconciled. Accept my forgiveness. But tell me just one simple thing. Where are the Rings? You do not need to bring them to me. Just tell me where they are and I will go and get them."

Celebrimbro pulled back his chin. "You are mistaken. It is you who should be forgiven, not me. You who turned our precious technology and discoveries into monsters. You who made everything ours your own, destroyed it, and corrupted it. You are still trying to deceive me with your cunning tongue. Do you really want to make me your accomplice?"

"Perhaps lovers and accomplices are not so different, My precious. Think about it. Even if you stand up to me here bravely, someone outside will say it was your fault in the first place. They will blame you for welcoming 'Annatar' in the first place. Those fools who think that their feeble strength and innocence are protected when they are not tested will not think that you could not see through my transformation, that the High King and Lady rejected me simply because they were narrow-minded, and that they have enjoyed a life thanks to the generosity and courage that made you accept me, and the development of Middle-earth. They will blame you and make you my accomplice just because you were my lover. To them, you are already my accomplice. And if you tell me where the rings are, as a predestined surrender, they will forget that you held out, fought and resisted for them, and they will blame you again. Didn't your uncle tell you? Your defeat is fixed, your accomplice is already in progress, and you will receive no reward, but only a stigma. That's all. This is already going to happen to them, so how about just making it easier for you?"

"Are you a lover or an accomplice who wants to be with me now?"

“As I said before, the two are no different. If you sit next to me and they kneel to you. And even if you don’t, even if I tie you up and torture you, to them you are already my accomplice. Why should you suffer for those people?"

The voice that came out like a sigh was heartbreaking. “……If that’s all I can give them.”

The metal fingers extended like snakes and dug roughly into his hair. He pulled. His head fell back violently, and their eyes met. “Why should you give them something?” “If only I could lessen the price they pay for my misjudgments and arrogance. If only I could give them a little time.” “You give them something, and you apologize to them, but you give me nothing, and you apologize to me for nothing.”

The voice that gnashed his teeth was so familiar that he wanted to laugh. In fact, he wanted to cry. On the list of people Annatar thought of, there were people he had to lose, even if Annatar didn't know them. There were those he shouldn’t have lost. Before they parted, he hadn’t heard his father’s soft voice for too long. He was always angry. It really seemed like it was time to part with him, too. “I gave… to them… and to Annatar. But it was a void, and what I gave was scattered into thin air. There is nothing left for me now.”

"My precious, Trust me. There is always more to lose. There is a floor beneath the floor. There is always a further fall. My treasure. You still have a choice.”

The cold fingers dug deeper into his head. "Love, or death. All or nothing." "……."

"Actually, this isn't even a choice. Tell me. It's just whether it's early or late. I'll know it all someday. You know that too."

"…always…you were like that. You were always too obsessed with the outcome. You were always too hasty. You would overlook the precious moments and treasures hidden in the process and period. You are Maia, not a fragile life like an elf, but a true immortal. You could have just waited to head towards that star with everyone, but in the end, you decided to go first and get the star, and trampled everyone who was clinging to it and everyone in your path with your iron feet. After all, Who will you enjoy it with when you get the star? Who and why are you doing this? Is it only you for you? It will be only you."

"That might not be the case."

"......"

"It could be us. Tyelpe. Think about it. Maybe this is for everyone you are trying to protect. You are by my side, giving me advice and sharing everything with me. You can truly protect the world. You can protect me. Don't abandon everyone, yourself and me, now because of your empty pride. There is nothing left for you to protect your pride. If you take my hand and reign as the Lord of Lord, you can truly help everyone." "No, that can't be." "……."

Celebrimbor glanced at the hand holding his head, then glared at the other hand, the one with the ring. Even though he was just a miserable captive, he didn't even try to grab the ringed hand. "You're wrong. We don't exist. Rather, I'm the first elf to have my husband taken away. It took my husband away." “You are the one who betrayed me!” “Is there anyone left for me to betray? Take off the One Ring and give it to me. Show me if there is anyone out there who has taken it off!” "No!" "Look at that!"

A look of miserable satisfaction flashed across Celeborimbor’s face. Sauron growled, letting go of his hair and hastily hiding his hand. “I cannot trust you. Let me trust you first. Tell me where the rings are!”

Celebrimbor gave a short, harsh laugh. "Oh my Valar, I thought you were teasing me and I clapped back, but you're starting to believe your lies. You were a shameless liar before, but you never fooled yourself! You started a war when I made three rings. At the same time, you're not a fool, you knew that if you started a war, I'd take those rings away. There is no place where the rings are less than here, but you attacked here, so you don't need them. You came to catch me because you knew that I could make a ring that wasn't stained by your hands, and that I could, by chance, develop further and make a more dangerous ring. You came to kill your rival. You could never let me live. You were afraid of me! And you began to believe the lies you told to hide it. Poor me. If you had just admitted that you were afraid of me, that you couldn't control me and that you were afraid of my abilities, I could have died cleanly. I wouldn't have been tortured to answer questions you didn't even know about, but now you've deceived yourself and I'm going to die in torture and pain.

Next to you? You can't let me live. You had to kill me, so you made up excuses that I betrayed you, and you made up false possibilities, things like I could have been by your side, to make me out to be a terrible traitor who deserved to be killed. And now you believe it! And you're even trying to fool me! To better deceive yourself! You have lost the ability to check and criticize yourself. The ring has consumed you. Now when I sleep with you, I'm sleeping with the ring, right? Is it like sleeping with dead metal, not even a living thing. I'd rather sleep with an orc than you! At least they're alive!"

he thought he would regret saying it because it was such a mean thing to say, but he ended up not having to regret it. The enraged Sauron grabbed Celebrimbor by the collar with both hands and pulled him up. His throat was choked, his breath caught in his throat. It was something that matched the painful satisfaction he felt looking into Sauron’s burning eyes. “If you wish, I can do it. If you choose everyone but me, I will let you sleep with them all. If you betray me so, I will let you betray me. If you choose everyone but me, everyone alive to you, I will let you wallow with them even after you are dead. I will give you everything you choose. If you choose me, godliness, and true life, you will have it all. If you choose everything but me, betrayal and death, you will have it all. I will kill you and kill everyone. I will let you sleep with everyone but me, who you love so much, alive and dead! Shall we start with the Orcs? There are many who would like to have fun with the Elf Lord.”

Celebrimbor laughed breathlessly. He looked up at him, holding his hands as he dragged him by the collar. He glared. “Do as you wish! Who cares? But I have a suggestion. If you are not afraid, do it all yourself. This is our business. Let us not involve others. Let us see the end for ourselves. Otherwise, you are a coward.”

Of course, according to what he said, he is already a coward. But the final provocation seemed to have been useful. Celebrimbor felt his final satisfaction when Sauron himself grabbed him with both hands and dragged him to the torture chamber.

[theskella]

I didn't even watch My Adventures with Superman, but people are really losing it over romantic partners being upset that their superpowered partner was hiding their secret identity from them. I didn't watch the Superman one, but I did watch Invincible, and I'll circle back to it later.

Lois being upset with Clark doesn't have to be logically correct to be a reasonable reaction. Whether Clark is right not to tell her about being Superman isn't important. It can still hurt to find out you were being lied to. Clark is hurt as well for things that she said, at no point in their argument do either of them bring it down to the level and either apologize or admit fault. Because they are both still raw from being hurt in some fashion.

The thing is that Lois was hurt and she acted according to that hurt. People who are still raw can say and do far worse- and if you think that this is the final word in Lois and Clark's relationship you should maybe revisit what you know about Superman.

Getting back to Invincible. People nailed Amber to the wall in Invincible over much the same thing, and never bothered to consider that it wasn't that Mark was keeping his superheroing secret (because Amber figured it out on her own) but that she was upset that he was still promising time to her that he had no reasonable way of keeping. The lying wasn't "you lied when you didn't tell me you were a super hero" it was "you lied and repeatedly promised that time with me was something you could maintain." Even if he had trusted her off the hop, and told her he was Invincible, it wouldn't change how hurtful it is to promise time to her and then break that promise because something comes up. "You made me feel stupid and unimportant." That didn't and doesn't change when she figured out why he flaked so much.

Knowing Lois and Clark's meta-relationship, Lois'll most likely recover from the pain and be willing to reconsider and move past it- maybe because she sees Clark's reasoning, or he apologizes. Or maybe even a secret third thing. The end point is that she'll decide that it's worth it to be with him.

End of the day, I find it strange that in a story- you know, a narrative? That people have such problems with conflict.

[tharrb]

You once said Marcy's parents not being abusive 'ruins' her arc. But wouldn't her arc be ruined if the opposite was the case?

The crux of Marcy's arc is her fear that, if she isn't in the same place as Anne and Sasha, she'll lose their friendship and end up alone. This fear is so powerful that she strands herself and them in another world. Marcy doing this is presented as a bad thing, and a massive betrayal of trust. Obviously the logical follow-up to this is for Marcy to acknowledge this as a mistake, and accept that losing physical closeness doesn't mean losing friendship.

What sense would it make, then, to backtrack on all that by going 'Actually, Marcy was really motivated by wanting to get away from her shitty parents. Losing Anne and Sasha was only part of it.'? It lessens the impact of Marcy's betrayal by scapegoating her actions on her parents, and it ruins her arc's logical conclusion. If Marcy's parents were abusive, then her arc would have to change from 'no amount of distance can undo the love friends have for each other' to 'kids don't deserve to be abused.'

I know you say there's ample evidence Marcy's parents are abusive/neglectful, but the point is, you can't push a message of accepting difficult change and love transcending difference while also going 'yeah, the only reason this girl did anything bad is because of abusive parents.'

Okay so, let me explain some things

First, i never intended to excuse Marcy’s actions, only to explain them. Obviously, lying to your friends and getting them stuck in another world is bad, no getting around that. Second, Marcy’s parents being abusive/neglectful isn’t really her motivation, so much as it helps explain why she was so determined to keep Anne and Sasha by her side in the first place.

Marcy, by her own admission, has a hard time making friends. I have no doubt she’d be bullied without Anne and Sasha. Given what we’ve seen in the show and the journal, she had a pretty bad relationship with her parents. All that would explain why she was so attached to Anne and Sasha despite them not being the best friends. Because they were her only form of support.

Her parents being fine would create a plot hole of “why would she run away to not being alone, when she could just go to her parents for emotional support.” Plus “actually Marcy’s homelife is perfect and she’s just a brat who needs to grow up” isn’t very compelling to me. Just because her actions are wrong, doesn’t mean her feelings are invalid.

Plus, it’s entirely possible to have marcy lesson of moving on while also having her parents be abusive but here’s where I get into rant territory:

Her parents not showing up is probably why this confusion accord. There only depictions paints them in a negative light, and them being MIA for season 3 doesn’t help. I would have love for them to have actual shown up and realized how their treatment of Marcy drove her away. That would actually help the “accepting change” message, because Marcy’s home life has changed for the better.

Unfortunately, they don’t, and the show just glosses over the implications of Marcy’s parents. It unintentionally sends the message of “Marcy has to accept change, even if it makes her miserable.” And causes the change moral to become dogmatic.

[taeggukstime]

(I'll break my ask in many parts xD)1) Hi Sara, I hope you are doing alright. I'm sorry that you're attacked. Although I disagree with your pov about the sign topic, I believe that no one should be attacked for voicing their opinions, unless is something hateful, off course.I was thinking about your theory that Taekook are not together anymore but were at some point, and reading your answers here.

Hi! Thank you for showing concern. Luckily the wave of hate stopped ☺️

I agree that if they were to be dating we'd never be able to confirm it unless they came out or got undeniably caught (which we don't want happening). Even if they straight up denied their relationship in the most blunt way possible, they could be lying for obvious reasons. Nevertheless, just because they could be lying doesn't necessarily mean they are, it works both ways. We can use this “loophole” and believe whatever makes most sense to us but, as I previously said, I'd keep in mind it's speculation. This situation increases the uncertainty and it gets difficult to distinguish between truths and lies. I speculate myself and don't believe the official narrative of them only ever being just friends, but it seems that I believe they're not lying as much as you think they are, and that's fine. Each person has their own way of perceiving things and their own logic.

When you talk about a closeting strategy, what do you mean by contradicting a pattern? Normally I judge their words and actions side by side, seeing if there are any contradictions. To be honest, the “closeting strategy” card was an easy way out back when I used to believe they were dating throughout their “awkward phase” and I had to fit things into my prior theory...but, according to my logic, it eventually started to fall apart as I started noticing other little details that aligned with some of their big claims and I couldn't sustain my theory anymore as much as I tried, so that's when I had to make some changes. That's how theories work. Anyways, I could be wrong! Maybe they tricked me 🤷🏻‍♀️

About wanting to confuse us but avoiding the hetero label hmm it's true that they don't make direct statements about their sexuality but imagine if they were straight, why would they find it necessary to proclaim? There's also the factor of fanservice and how they actively feed homoromantic fantasies, so maybe the company thinks it's best to maintain the suspense. Another scenario, even if they were both lgbtq that wouldn't automatically make them a couple. I know you have reasons to believe they are, but I'm just giving counter arguments to your point of them being vague about their sexuality as something that supports the idea of them being a couple.

What birthday situation? Jungkook's? I'm not seeing the link between his birthday and being perceived as gay. Wait, you're talking about Jimin going to Korea specifically for his birthday and giving him an expensive gift? I doubt there were any gay rumors in Korea because of that...it doesn't even make it into international gossip. It's just among shippers. I personally think they would have avoided the tattoo girl leakage if they could but hey, who knows, maybe the company found some positives to it.

Yes, it's tricky to extrapolate statements they make, though in the case of Tae having trouble with his feelings it's something we know he dealt with for quite some time. On its own the statement could still be compatible with a relationship, it's just that the way things fit into each other made me reach certain (speculative) conclusions. Different statements, events, observations... It's about the big picture, right? Again, I know I could be wrong and I'm trying to make this very clear.

We definitely need time to digest recent events and wait for footage to be released! I'm actually very slow to reach conclusions. Thank you for being so nice, best wishes for you 💜

~ Answered on January 19, 2022 ~

[legalandnotease]

Lol, thanks @buckydeservesthebest

@sammywilson logic here is ridiculous. "oh its totally fine to work with Ross because he said he was wrong about the Accords so he's completely trustworthy now!"

Ross also said the Avengers would have some freedom to act under the Accords too. He lied. Its what he does. He was lying to Sam as well: Ross history makes it clear that he does not share power.

Ross actions throughout the movie prove he's not trustworthy in any way. Then, on top locking people up who he knows to be innocent Sam even finds evidence Ross rigged the election. or rather Sterns did to get Ross into power- but Ross agreed to it.

That's years of electoral interference which is utterly illegal. Instead of reporting it immediately and getting Ross out, Sam ignores it, focusing more of his attention on getting Isaiah out of prison.

Look I get it. Isaiah is important to you- but you've just discovered an mad scientist with a speciality in mind control has been puppeteering Ross for *years*. This is matter of national interest. Get your bloody priorities right Sam.

14 months later "anything could have happened". Who is funding them, fam? Who owns the tower, fam?

Yeah, yeah. Tony Stark owned the Tower before Val, but we all know he didn't run the Avengers. Come on. This is reaching. He funded their operations for a while, but he wasn't in charge.

Isn't it weird that you can tell the difference between paying for stuff and *running everything* in Tony's case but not in Thunderbolts.

We won't even go into the source of Tony's money- actually we wil. All his money was inherited from his father. Who made it from manufacturing weapons. Its literally blood money.

So you're fine with Sam using Tony's money gained from selling arms used to commit literal genocides... but not Bucky using government money. Gotcha.

Why did Yelena say "they don't tell us anything" heavily implying they are taking orders and being told where to go.

None of this proves Val is in charge. The US government doesn't consist entirely of Val. There's fucking thousands of people in the government.

This could refer to literally *anyone*. "They" could easily be that Congresman Gary guy Bucky was shown working with or even Mel Gold.

Literally all Yelena means their unnamed contacts aren't keeping them in the loop.

If they were doing their own thing, a) they wouldn't make a direct call to the govt

As above: I literally just said Val isn't the entire government. Are they directly calling *her*? No, they're calling their contacts whoever they are.

b) they would know what they were doing without waiting around for instructions after 14 months.

Again, lack of communication doesn't prove Val is running everything. This is all just desperate reaching. You still have literally *zero* evidence.

They were bastardized, especially with the articles and the photoshoots, meaning VAL is making them do that shit, meaning VAL is running the shots. Because no way in hell would Bucky Barnes and Yelena sign up to pose for fucking photos for the NYT or the New Yorker. C'mon.

This is the best one of all. "Bucky wouldn't pose for photos! This proves Val is making them do it!" Bucky is a Congressman. How in the name of fuck do you think people get elected to Congress? By magic incantanations? They go on the public campaign trial. They appear in the press and on televised interviews.

To get into Congress Bucky would have got used to public attention. He gets surrounded by journalists to answer questions in literally his first scene in the movie. Where do you think they published those questions? Use some critical thinking.

He wouldn't have any problem being in the news. He'd been in it for years. And Yelana is now a celebrity. Celebrities pose for photos. Yelena even said she wanted a "public facing" role earlier in the movie.

Not run by anyone, certainly not a team that spits on EVERYTHING his bffs Steve and Nat have worked tirelessly for.

And what was that? Is this the recently formulated Sam fan headcanon that the Avengers were never run by the government?

Kid, your lies are so transparent its not even funny. In Avengers 1, Nick Fury who literally *works for a government organization* forms the Avengers. SHIELD were a government organization. SHIELD operatives were government workers.

For the first 2 years of their existence the Avengers operated under SHIELD and had government funding, until Steve had to bring them down in Captain America: The Winter Soldier because they were infiltrated by HYDRA.

You also seem to be unaware that Natasha was on Team Tony until right at the end of Civil War. As is the Pro-Accords side who were actively co-operating with Ross. She signed the Accords, ffs. So what was that she stood for again? The only reason she became a fugitive was because T'Challa told Ross she helped Steve and Bucky escape during the airport fight. Not because she was opposed to government control.

Did you actually watch Civil War? or Avengers- because you don't seem to have done. You seem to just be relying on the secondhand version promoted by your friends.

Natasha would, however have been totally thrilled at her beloved sister becoming an Avenger. She'd have been proud of her. She was proud of her in the movies we already have.

And you seriously expect us to think Steve, who literally gave up his shield and his title of Captain America to save Bucky, would have been opposed to him being an Avenger? Certainly not as opposed as Sam fans are.

Bucky was written abborrantly in this film, and it's not because he has agency... I would've loved it if they took back the press conference, formed their own group at the end, and did everything their own way.

Yeah right kid. You gave yourself away when you started ranting about Walker who we never mentioned in any capacity and nobody I know remotely care about. You people are LIVID that Bucky DARED to step out of Sam's shadow and work with people who weren't him.

You consistently act like he needs Sam's permission to so much as breathe, let alone choose who he wants to work with. And God help him if its somebody Sam doesn't like or doesn't approve of.

(But its fine for Sam to work with the man who directly tried to kill Bucky not once but twice.. and notice neither Bucky nor his fans scream about that for days).

There wasn't time at the end of the 2 hour movie to show what happened after the press junket: they already had to cut a lot of material because it was too long.

The only thing we can be sure of is Sam fans would be screeching no matter what Bucky did because he's not Sam's accessory/pet anymore. And you cannot stand that.

t's because he forgot the entire reason he put together a team.

He put together a team to stop forces of evil hurting the innocent. First Val, then Sentry, then The Void. When he realized Bob wasn't a bad guy though he accepted him and helped him. Then they decided to keep on doing it.

Also, Bucky has always had a penchant for adopting losers since he first rescued the skinny little Steve Rogers from an alleyway. Ditching the Thunderbolts would have been far more ooc then sticking with them as a big brother/protector figure.

Becoming a Congresman shows Bucky was willing to work with people he hated and do something he hated if necessary to combat evil. You think he kiled schmoozing with the kind of people who used to order him to be tortured? At times, you have to operate within a flawed system, and if necessary, use that system to your advantage.

That's why he may have *repeat may have* allowed Val to bankroll things for a time- because his team needed the protection that an official role afforded them because like Steve found out, you can't do a lot of superhero work as a criminal or fugitive. At the same time, he's best positioned to ensure his team aren't made to do anything they disagree with or don't want to.

So I am gonna wade in on the controversy surrounding the Thunderbolts PC scene.

A lot of people are angry about Bucky and Sam's apparent fallout over the use of The Avengers name- and inevitiably the blame falls on Bucky.

Honestly? I think the real issue is that some fans think Bucky and Sam's relationship is still the same as it was The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, when Sam was basically Bucky's only friend and Bucky was dependent on him.

4-5 years have passed in universe since then, and Bucky now has other friends, connections and his own team. Which means he can't just go around making decisions without consulting them (he's not Tony Stark after all). He has to take account of what his teammates actually want: its not just about Sam anymore.

Its kind of interesting in a way: fans have said that Bucky needs to have his own life and make his own choices and yet the moment he does something which Sam disapproves of, he's lambasted for it.

Which is why I think the real issue isn't that Bucky and Sam have apparently had a falling out: its that Bucky has stepped out of Sam's shadow and is doing his own thing. He's not just Same's sidekick anymore. He's making his own choices, forming his own team, in the public eye as his own man.

Its not just Sam though: we've been so used to Bucky being the supporting role and playing second fiddle to someone else for so long that now he's acting independently its jarring, even shocking.

Bucky doesn't have to have Sam (or anyone else's) approval or permission anymore. Nobody has exclusive rights to tell Bucky what he can do, who he can associate with and who he can work for. That makes people mad.

And don't even get me started about the people loudly complaining about Bucky/The Thunderbolts "working for Val" because that's not what's happening even in the movie.

The Post-Credit scene is set 14 months after the movie: anything could have happened in that time. Val might not even still be alive at that point. Even if she is, it seems the Thunderbolts are only using her for money but she definately doesn't control them (they have the knowledge to bring her down after all).

If your issue is government control then you clearly have a short memory. In Brave New World Ross was asking Sam to form his own Avengers team. Meaning they would have been subject to the government and Ross: who was as bad as if not worse than Val.

Nobody raised objection to that. So, apparently, Sam creating an Avengers team at the behest of a politician and subject to the government isn't a problem.

But Bucky leading a team which pay lip service to the government but are really autonomous and under nobody's control except their own is obectionable.

Yeah that's called a double standard.

[hoardofhyperfixations]

Villain

Warnings: cursing, arguing, sympathetic deceit, unhappy ending

Pairings: Platonic Anxceit, platonic LAMP

Genre: Pure Angst

Summary: Virgil creates a villain of his friend.

Taglist: @stardustedsweaterlover @the-magicalpotato @eliz1325

Note: This is the longest fic I've ever written at 1456 words holy fuck.

Deceit paced the commons of the subconscious, twirling a hat around his pale finger. He wore the same outfit he always did; a dark green t-shirt that was a size too big and baggy blue jeans that covered most of his black sneakers.

Anxiety should've been back by now.

Deceit's one and only friend, Anxiety, had recently been spending more and more time with- with them. The "Light" Sides, as they'd been called. Yet no matter how much time he'd been spending, he'd always be back by 6 p.m. on the dot.

It was 6:30.

Where was he?

Deceit was getting increasingly worried. Sure, a few minutes past six would've been odd, but not a cause for concern. A half hour was a different story.

He scratched absently at the scales on his arm and left hand, trying to think rationally about this.

When Anxiety finally returned, he was snickering slightly with a wide grin on his face, a freshly baked chocolate chip cookie in hand.

Deceit stopped in his tracks.

"Anxiety!" He exclaimed, shoulders slumping in relief. The dark side in question looked up from the cookie in hand, eyes landing on the shorter one.

"Hey Dee, what's up?" He smiled and Deceit allowed himself to relax further, moving forward and  hugging Anxiety's torso tightly.

"I was scared." Deceit whispered. He had a bad habit of saying the truth and only the truth, whether it was a good idea or not. Lying made him uncomfortable and feel sick to his stomach.

"What? Why?" Anxiety moved away from the hug with a concerned look.

"You were gone for way longer than usual! 30 minutes, Anx!" Deceit exclaimed. Anxiety rolled his eyes slightly.

"30 minutes isn't that long. I was-"

"-with the light sides." Deceit interrupted, frowning and moving away. "Like always. You spend way too much time with them, Anx."

"You're not my mom or dad, Dee,"  Anxiety scowled, "you can't control where I go, who I'm with, or how much time I spend with them." He was getting fed up with Deceit's constant questioning of where he was and how long he'd be there.

"I know, but you never spend time with me anymore." Deceit frowned. He was trying not to seem selfish, clingy or possessive, but Anxiety was his only friend.

"Yeah, I do. Stop smothering me. I like hanging out with the light sides." Anxiety defended, raising his voice a little.

"Then why don't you just go hang out with the light sides 24/7?" Deceit scowled, also raising his voice. Anxiety was full on glaring down at Deceit, gaze cold. Over the past few weeks, their friendship has been strained, but Deceit never expected what happened in the next few moments to transpire before of that.

"You know what? Maybe I will. They can't be any worse than you." Anxiety spat, turning on his heel. Deceit's mismatched eyes widened and he grabbed the other side's wrist.

"A-Anxiety, wait..." the scaly side stuttered. "They think we're villains, remember? They'll never accept you!" he wasn't sneering it. Instead, it seemed to come out rushed and frantically, as if he were terrified.

"You're right. But at least most villains don't naturally look the part." Anxiety spat, pulling his arm away and stalking off angrily.

"A-Anx..." Deceit pulled his hand away and held it, scratching lightly at the patch of scales there as Anxiety left The Subconscious.

He stood there for a moment, then slowly turned and sulked to his small room.

| • | • | • | • |

Five years.

Deceit waited five fucking years.

But Anxiety hadn't come back, no, not even stopped by.

So Deceit decided he'd have to come to him.

Ditching his usual outfit, Deceit recalled the last few words they'd said to each other.

If Virgil thought he looked like a villain then...well, he was in for a surprise.

Deceit grinned, showing off the fangs that had grown over the years.

Deception Sanders stepped out of The Subconscious. A small gasp was pulled from him at the immediate warmth, a significant difference from the cold, darkness of The Subconscious. He shrugged it off and fixing his gloves.

Deceit messed with his cape as he confidently strolled into the light side commons, where Creativity and Morality were watching Steven Universe on the floor. Logic was on the couch reading a book next to-

Deceit's breath silently caught in his throat for a moment.

Anxiety was sitting next to them all, playing on his phone. Instead of his plain black outfit, he had a much more colorful one. Shades of purple and even some gray decorated the black hoodie. Along with his change of color scheme, Anxiety looked so much more relaxed and...happy than he had in The Subconscious.

All the "light" sides looked up at the click of heeled shoes on the floor and Anxiety nearly dropped his phone. Creativity stood immediately, drawing his Katana and pointing it at Deceit.

"Who are you and what are you doing here?" he demanded. Deceit merely smiled coyly, arms behind his back.

"Dee..." Anxiety whispered. Deceit narrowed his eyes.

"I'm not sorry to disappoint, but that is very correct, Anxiety." Deceit took his hat off and gave a bow, his cold gaze never wavering. "I am not Deceit." Creativity looked confused. He lowered his sword slightly, looking over at Anxiety.

"Virgil? You know this...this person?" Deceit clenched his fists as he stood up straight, putting his hat back on. Virgil? Was that what he called himself now?

"Well... I'm not so sure." Anxiety admitted, frowning over at Deceit. Deceit smiled dryly.

"Aw, I'm not hurt. You told them about me, Anx?" he asked mockingly, despite the sting he felt at that realization. Anxiety seemed uncomfortable.

Good.

Deceit's old friend looked away. The snake faced side narrowed his eyes.

"What's wrong, Virgil?" The name tasted foreign and bittersweet on his tongue, but Deceit ignored it the same way he ignored the sickening feeling he got every time he lied. "Not like what you found? You look comfortable."

"Kiddos, how about we all calm down?" Morality spoke nervously as Creativity raised the sword again, pressing the sharp tip against Deceit's chest.

"I agree with Patton," Logic nodded, "we should all calm down and talk things out. Roman, put the sword down."

Ugh. They all had names.

What? No, Deceit wasn't jealous.

"But- Logan!"  Creativity exclaimed, pushing the sword harder against his chest. Deceit fought back a wince, instead snarling at the side.

"L, Pat, I know this guy." Anxiety squinted at Deceit. "Princey, get him out of here." he ordered. Deceit felt anger bubble in his chest but ignored it.

"Now, kiddo-" Morality tried, but Deceit dismissively waved his hand. Instantly, Morality unwillingly slapped a hand over his mouth. Anxiety's eyes went wide, along with the others.

Deceit grinned. Of course even Anxiety would be surprised by that, he had never been able to do that before. Morality was panicking, trying to speak.

"Now that I don't have your attention again, I wouldn't like to let you know that I," Deceit sweeped his mismatched eyes over the four light sides, "that I will not leave of my own accord."

"Okay..." Anxiety said quietly, eyes never leaving Deceit's hands. The dark side smirked.

"If you'd ever like to hear Morality speak again, I suggest not putting the Katana down." Deceit threatened coldly. Creativity hesitated.

"...fine." he gave in, lowering and sheathing the sword. "Now, let him speak, you fiend." Deceit's grin was dangerous and he was pretty sure his yellow eye was glowing.

"Well, I will not see you all again soon," Deceit announced as he pressed his fingertips together, "especially not you, Anxiety."

"Hey-" Creativity started but Logic quieted him. Anxiety just glowered at the lying side.

"Farewell." Deceit said finally. With that, he turned on his heel, cape flaring up behind him, and strolled back to The Subconscious. Halfway down the hall, he waved his hand so Morality would be able to speak.

He paused, looking at a door that appeared next to him in the hall. It was gray with a 'D' on it, so Deceit assumed that it was his. Keeping up his confident facade even though no one was watching, he opened the door and walked inside like he owned the place.

Deceit shut the door behind him, letting his shoulders slump and his smooth act to crumble. He closed his eyes, choosing to ignore the sounds of jokes and laughter coming from the commons nearby. Then, he opened them again and his expression hardened.

If Anxiety was going to act like he did nothing wrong, like he was a hero, like Deceit was the problem...

Well, every hero needed a villain.

Part 2