#you had a good story going on in the ot and the pt movies with Luke and Anakin as the leads

[intermundia]

the thing i love about how lucas designed obi-wan as the 'good father' and vader as the 'bad father' aka two opposing and complementary halves of a single archetypal figure, it means that in a way, anakin made himself into vader. not just that he chose to fall, but also that he chopped himself into pieces and set himself on fire. he fought against the good part of himself and both won by losing, and lost by winning, you know? he was irrevocably damaged by the fight and the good part of himself withdrew, leaving him as vader ascendant, which is what he wanted, but god at such a high cost.

it's just that narratively anakin HAD to either kill or remove the obi-wan part of his character during his fall, or else he would never be free to be vader, but you cannot destroy a part of yourself without consequences. so he suffered a painful echo of the damage he'd done to the galaxy and his own soul for the rest of his life, courtesy of obi-wan's violent departure. luckily that rejected part of himself left mustafar to go hover around luke (his legacy) instead, guiding the son figure who would ultimately return his goodness and heal the divide in his character.

idk man obi-wan is just such an interesting figure in the tragedy of anakin skywalker, so deeply interwoven in his entire life, from childhood to death, like there's a reason he's in all 6 OT and PT movies, even death can't remove him from the story. he is wherever vader is, in vader's mind, in his words! they can't escape each other, and don't even want to. obi-wan gives luke anakin's light in the narrative (and his lightsaber) and then lets vader kill him, waiting in the force for anakin to die so they can reunite forever. they're two halves of a single character and i'll never be normal about it.

[gffa]

The latest ending of Ahsoka really made me realize one of the big problems with Felony's writing and why so much of the Masndo-verse and Felony's modern writing falls flat compared to OWK and Andor. Shock value. A BIG twist cliffhanger that leaves us all mouth open and HYPING up the next episode in hope and filling the forums with discussions in anticipation. Understandably, he can't write what we wrote in our heads for 7 days and top that. 1.

2. But once that shock is gone when the story has moved onto the next big thing, or you watch it again when you know what it pays off in, or watch the whole series or season again, it just doesn't hold up. It's empty. Vapid. Because it's all about the shock. The twist. The discussion. The hype fodder. It's not saying anything or adding anything. OWK and Andor was a lot better at that, without the use of the nostalgia baiting that Felony relies on. 3. It becomes an endless circle of low lows and high highs, while OWK and Andor both slowly built up to the crescendo of discussions and speculations and both have stayed in the fandom consciousness alot longer thanks to that. And because they have something to say, both to the world and to the viewer. While with the Felony and the Fraudrou verses, it's just a constant barrage of oh wow, moving on, what's next? ehh, it's over, let's move on.

I feel like one day I'm going to do a longer analysis on why exactly Filoni's writing feels weak to me (where I try to be more fair than I'm usually feeling about his writing), because I don't think he's without a lot of talent and there's certain things he really does get about Star Wars, but I think so much comes back to that he's a writer who is caught in a difficult position--playing in someone else's sandbox but has to now establish his own new corners of that sandbox and I'm not sure he's strong enough to be a big picture kind of guy when he works better in smaller focus. His work on TCW and Rebels is content that we do come back to again and again for analysis, during my rewatches of both those series, those shows hold up! But I think they're ones where he had stronger guardrails up, and he was forced to stick to things in one place. I think live action has been bad for Filoni's writing because of the way so much is structured, that there are multiple series going on and I feel like his writing doesn't have the patience to actually tell a story in a single space, that's why we get Grogu's story being split between The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett, that's why we get Mandalore's story being splintered across Rebels, The Mandalorian, The Book of Boba Fett, and now Ahsoka. We still haven't even seen half of the events that happen in the Mandalore bigger story! And you're right that he and Favreau both lean too hard on the cameos and echoes/rhymes for nostalgia's sake. And those reference points are often extremely fun in the moment! And I'll grant that the Luke episodes are ones I go back to fairly often, because I think there's some really good content in there about what attachment actually means. But I don't think it's that surprising, looking back, how quickly the Favroni shows fell apart for us and how it doesn't feel like they're establishing anything that can support a bunch of books and comics. I suspect that Disney's not allowed to have books/comics/etc. based on Favroni's shows because they want creative control over those characters while they're still actively writing for them, but also I look at the OT and the PT and look how much was built off those movies+TCW as a foundation, I look at how much you're able to still watch those and find new things to analyze, and I just don't feel that with Filoni's writing anymore, not since Rebels, not to that level, anyway. (I'll grant that I've been a lot more excited about the Ahsoka series and what we can say about it/find in analyzing it than I expected, I expected nothing but shitposts like we did with Mandalorian s3, but I've had fun with serious meta in Ahsoka! I was genuinely excited to come on-line after episode 4 and talk about themes and structure and how well Filoni did with that there!) Ultimately, I think Filoni (and Favreau) both have a lot of talent, but I think they're being pushed too hard to make too much too quickly and that it shows that they're making this up as they go along, rather than that they had a vision they've been crafting for years and any kind of idea of where they want the end goal to be. Like, yeah, Lucas wrote some stuff on the fly, he changed his mind about things along the way, but he had an end point in mind for his story, so the echoes/rhymes felt more resonant for me. Favroni don't feel like they have any idea where they're going and so much winds up feeling like shock value and self-reference for nostalgia bad for me instead of something that's Going Somewhere.

[jedi-enthusiast]

Debunking the "The Jedi are Evil" Theory Made by The Film Theorists PT 1

Back when I was a little baby Star Wars fan and I had only ever watched "Star Wars: Rebels" and I didn't really have any opinions of my own--let alone informed opinions--I watched this video:

I had generally really liked the theories made on Film Theory and Game Theory, and I hadn't watched enough SW media to poke holes in this theory (or a more fitting metaphor would be "blowing a giant hole through it" because it's inaccurate), so needless to say my reaction could be summarized as-

"Wow, I can't believe how evil the Jedi were! No wonder Anakin killed them all!" - baby Jedi-Enthusiast, who didn't know any better and was very stupid and ill-informed.

But now that I'm a little older, I've actually watched almost all SW media, and I've actually figured out my own opinions (namely that I'm an Anakin hater and Pro-Jedi), I'm going to go through this entire video and debunk the whole thing and/or provide context to show that the Jedi are, in fact, the good guys and trying to make them out to be some "evil repressive cult" only makes you seem ignorant.

(and yes, most points will be made into their own posts, because some of these get really fucking long)

----------

Point One - George Lucas is Wrong About His Own Characters

One of the first things Matthew says in the video is this:

"I want to look back at these older movies and show that things have always been this way-" [always been morally grey, things not being cut and dry good/evil] "-in the series. That, despite George Lucas's not-so-subtle costume choices from the original movies and the blatant good versus evil storylines that all of these films purport to have, the heroes aren't always the heroes these stories make them out to be."

Now, it's very clear here that Matthew subscribes to the "death of the author" viewpoint of Star Wars, where the intention of the creators doesn't matter, so I'm primarily gonna argue my point without bringing up a bunch of Lucas quotes and commentaries, just so the playing field is even. However-

I do want to make it clear that Lucas is the creator and he had a very specific vision and purpose for the Jedi.

Lucas did not subscribe to the "morally grey heroes/villains" idea that's gotten so popular lately, the Jedi and Rebellion are meant to firmly be the good guys and the Sith/Separatists/Empire/etc. are meant to be the bad guys. There are no "if," "ands," or "buts."

The Jedi are good. Period.

(if they weren't then it'd be framed as a bad thing throughout the OT and every other post-prequels show/movie that the Jedi are still alive/coming back, but that's another thing)

[meta-shadowsong]

An Argument With a Particular Word of God Quote

Note: I wrote this essay a while ago--several months ago--and then just kind of sat on it; but the quote it focuses on has been crossing my dash again the last day or so and it popped back into my head and I decided to go ahead and share.

So. There is a George Lucas quote, I believe from the Attack of the Clones commentary. And I have. Extremely Strong Negative Feelings About It.

The quote in question:

“[The fact that everything must change and that things come and go through his life and that he can’t hold onto things, which is a basic Jedi philosophy that he isn’t willing to accept emotionally] and the reason that is because he was raised by his mother rather than the Jedi. If he’d have been taken in his first years and started to study to be a Jedi, he wouldn’t have this particular connection as strong as it is and he’d have been trained to love people but not to become attached to them.”

Okay. To be clear, my problem here is not with the attachment definition/philosophy that’s being posited here, nor with the description of Anakin’s attitude towards it. The first half of the first sentence, the part that’s bracketed--that’s all completely reasonable/true enough and I don’t have a problem with it.

It’s everything after that.

TL;DR: I think it undermines other key themes and conflicts with certain story/dialogue points in the rest of the saga (meaning episodes I-VI); and I feel like it says some pretty uncomfortable and/or negative things about emotional growth, childhood trauma, Shmi, and the Jedi Order.

Let’s break it down.

First, this only works if you look at the PT trilogy, Anakin’s fall from grace, in a complete vacuum, and ignore the OT and Luke’s journey. Because guess what? Luke was also raised outside the Order, to an even older age than Anakin, and while he struggled in ESB and he did in fact have to learn the hard way, he did learn. (Also, I haven’t rewatched ANH recently, and it doesn’t tend to get referenced much in these discussions, but I think it’s worth nothing that--yes, everything in that movie takes place over like three days and he doesn’t have a lot of time to think/process/start wallowing in his grief; but when you compare the way he handles things there with the way Anakin reacts in similar situations, and he’s already working from a more solid foundation, one that had nothing to do with being raised by the Jedi.)

Second, it’s a…weirdly deterministic take for a series that otherwise places a lot of emphasis on choice. On people choosing to do better (or to not do better). Again, that’s all over the OT, particularly with Luke and Han and again with the second half of Anakin/Vader’s journey. So this particular quote undermines that broader theme/message in a big way.

Third, it completely ignores the fact that this concept, about change being inevitable and you have to be able to move on and let go? Is articulated first and (arguably) most clearly by Shmi. Right there. In the movie just prior to this. That this man also wrote. (“You can’t stop the change, any more than you can stop the suns from setting.” That entire scene.) The mother whose parenting Lucas is essentially blaming for Anakin’s tendency to codependency/unhealthy obsession in relationships.

I am. Really not okay with Shmi being thrown under the bus like this. And, like, there’s probably a broader cultural whatever about how motherhood is simultaneously idealized and ignored in modern (Western) culture and art, and how that influences the way Shmi is portrayed and used and eventually fridged, let alone how she’s talked about outside the text itself. But like. She did in fact say this. The fact that Anakin didn’t grasp it and internalize it is not her fault.

Which is sort of tangentially related to a sort of…broader issue I have with the worldbuilding, especially when it comes to this idealized philosophy, which is that…yes, of course the Jedi are the Good Guys, and the philosophy they live by is a good one (and also acknowledging its real-world Buddhist roots). I am not in any way disputing either of those points. But the idea that only the Jedi, and only by accessing Jedi training/philosophy/etc. through this pretty narrow set of idealized circumstances, can allow you to be a good person in this specific idealized way/to follow this philosophy of non-attachment and learn how to love without codependency, leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. Especially when you have the same lesson/philosophy/ideal coming from a completely different angle in the same goddamn film. In short, the Jedi aren’t wrong, but they don’t have a monopoly on being right.

Okay. Uh. So those are (that last tangent aside) the writing/structure problems I have with this quote. Namely, it doesn’t entirely line up with the themes and storyline of the six films as a whole, and it doesn’t even mesh with the prior movie in this same trilogy.

But there are other issues here, too.

For one thing, this is…this really doesn’t paint the Jedi or their teachings in a very positive light.

Like…this is basically saying, “of course the Jedi can teach people how to love appropriately and avoid attachment/codependency/obsession/dangerous emotional tangles, that’s What They Do, after all--but only if the student starts as essentially a blank slate and has nothing to unlearn.” That’s…not a good look.

Also, it’s kind of a shitty take on childhood trauma? Yes, it’s hard to learn and grow past these things, but the idea that it’s not possible, aside from the implications about the Jedi Order’s pedagogical abilities, is super discouraging for people who come to this path/philosophy later in life than the Ideal. It implies that emotional growth and healing aren’t really feasible and, again, the only way to be capable of this kind of nonattachment is to start from a blank slate. Which a) I don’t think that’s how people or emotions work; and b) again, a super shitty and discouraging thing to say to anyone who might want to try.

(And before anyone comes at me with ‘there is no try,’ that quote taken at face value has the same issue; but if you look at it in context, it’s about committing to a course of action and knowing what you’re capable of, especially in a fairly simple situation/when faced with a fairly straightforward problem. When you also take into account the later conversation about trying to reach Vader, there’s also an acceptance of the fact that there are other factors that are completely out of Luke’s control here, that all he can do is put his commitment and genuine good faith effort and make the attempt to the best of his abilities, but he can’t simply ‘do’ without the other party meeting him halfway. But that’s another essay for another time.)

Lastly, and this is a much more…it has as much to do with modern fandom discussions as with what Lucas specifically said twenty years ago. But there’s this tendency to use entry into the Jedi Order as analogous to adoption. And that’s not wrong! It’s in fact a pretty good analogy! Even before it got reinforced by certain conversations in the Obi-Wan series! But quotes like this highlight the problem with that analogy, especially when coupled with the age restriction on entry into the Order.

Look. There are a lot of issues with the modern adoption system. I’m not nearly qualified to comment on all of them, beyond acknowledging that Some Shit’s Fucked Up. (Not all of it! But Some.) And one of those issues is that, unless the child in question is a [healthy, white] infant, the chances of them getting adopted are extremely slim. Because there’s this attitude that they won’t really belong, they won’t really be a part of their new family, they won’t really bond/bond properly with their new parents, unless they’re brought in as a blank slate. That the (perceived) greater Difficulties in taking in an older child are Too Much/Not Worth It…that kind of attitude.

And, I mean, I’m not a parent, adoptive or otherwise. I’ve never been fully responsible for raising a child (or for any other human being), and I know that it’s a complicated and difficult decision/task even under the most ideal of circumstances. But the idea that older kids aren’t good enough/don’t count/will never really be the children of their new parents is something I know I’ve seen broken down as a toxic mentality before.

Especially in a culture (fandom) that places such a huge emphasis on found family/family of choice and the bonds that grow from there (aka, the refutation of that idea), why is it that, in certain Jedi-positive circles and when looking at quotes like this one from Lucas, it’s just accepted at face value when it comes to the Jedi Order and their adoption/recruitment practices?

Full disclosure, the age limit is basically The Problem I have with the PT-era Jedi Order’s general practices and the one thing that I genuinely think does at least as much harm as good (or the harm it does is significant enough) and should be re-evaluated when Luke (or Rey, or whoever) rebuilds; I’ve written about this before, but, among other things, this idea tends to become a feedback loop which sets the few exceptions up for failure, which then reinforces the idea that older students will fail, and on and on*; this aside from the issues it presents to the people who aren’t lucky enough to be found in the right age bracket or have the combination of Circumstances working for them that Anakin did to become one of the exceptions; the fact that there are no viable alternatives for training and/or support for said potential latecomers is also a huge part of the problem. Anyway, that’s definitely coloring my views here, especially when we look at the Implications rather than the parts where it’s contradicted by other points in the text itself.

I’m going to sort of wind up here by saying that…after all of that, I don’t think that this quote is entirely wrong, exactly. I’ve written about this before (although maybe not posted it, haha), but I do think that the Order’s habit/background of generally not accepting latecomers, combined with Anakin’s particular background and issues, mean that the Order as it stands in the twilight of the Republic was not necessarily a good fit for him when he was brought to their attention, and that he might have been more stable/successful if he’d been brought in earlier, or if the initial refusal had stood and he’d found a different path for himself.

But boiling that down to, essentially, ‘Anakin Wasn’t Raised Right,’ and in so doing a) ignoring the entire other half of this saga/some of the key themes of this saga as a whole; b) forgetting what Shmi said in the last movie/throwing her under the bus; and c) making everyone involved in this situation look bad…I don’t know, that’s really not the way to do it.

*To avoid yet another long tangent…there is an interesting essay that could be teased out about that one line in the mantra, ‘there is no ignorance; there is knowledge,’ and how it relates to the idea of preconceptions. We see this in this particular discussion, both in a sort of positive light (when someone with no preconceptions approaches the Jedi path/philosophy, there is a strong tendency for them to succeed at it), and in a negative light (the feedback loop re: nontraditional students I mentioned). But it also comes up in other areas--look at how Force Ghosts are handled, for example. How much effort it takes for Qui-Gon to connect with Yoda; how the first assumption is that Yoda is hallucinating. Compare that to Luke, who has absolutely zero preconceptions/prior knowledge about how the Force works and how it relates to death, so that when he starts hearing (and later seeing) Ben, his response is ‘this makes as much sense as anything else I’ve learned in the last week sure let’s go with it.’ And, of course, Yoda that line about how wonderful the mind of a child is, uncluttered by such things. Not to mention the bit I mentioned earlier, about raising the X-wing from the swamp, and how that relates to preconceptions and expectations; also related is one of my favorite Qui-Gon quotes, “Your focus determines your reality.”

Anyway, I just think that’s interesting to contemplate--Jedi are people, after all, and this is a very People problem to have.

[justiceforc3po]

ANDOR is great, but not like that

Ok, here we go. I need to talk about Andor - I love this show so much, and so I've been watching lots of content about it, especially analysis videos. And while I would technically immediately join in on praising this show into absolute oblivion, I often find myself disagreeing with one specific idea - that Andor is "The Best of Star Wars".

When I first heard someone say that, I didn't know why I hesitated to agree. After all, technically, I'd say they're right - Andor is brilliantly written, has great dialogue, beautiful practical and CGI effects, incredible characters, acting, themes, etc. But I realised, there's a few reasons why I do not think that Andor is or can be called the epitome of Star Wars. First of all - I don't think there can be such a thing as "The Best of Star Wars". The franchise is far too massive and varied to pick something out as the best thing. You simply can't compare Andor, a live-action show with a very dark story and incredibly tragic characters, to The Clone Wars for example - an animated childrens' show that will simply have different restrictions (and benefits!). But secondly...while I adore Andor, I think that it does lack something important to even be considered the best of Star Wars specifically for me. Quite simply, Andor is just too different from the rest of the franchise. It isn't Star Wars enough. Does that make it bad? Oh hell no. They shouldn't be trying to make it more Star Wars! It's perfectly fine as it is! But I think that while it is better on a technical level than most other Star Wars media, putting it on a pedestal over the rest of the franchise is doing a complete disservice to what made SW so popular in the first place. Because no, the OT and especially the PT are not better stories, or movies, than something like Andor. They're kind of cheesy, sometimes a bit muddled, and campy as hell. But I also wouldn't change them one bit (ok, I do have some bones to pick with the PT but shh)! Luthen's speech is amazing, it's beautiful dialogue, nothing in those movies comes close to it on a technical level! But Star Wars didn't get popular through dramatic speeches. In fact, the sometimes stilted dialogue is part of it's charm as a series. The campy sci-fi elements, the humour, it's all part of what makes Star Wars what it is. Andor is excellent at highlighting the more gritty part of the story, and executes the political themes wonderfully. But in Star Wars, for me, it will always just be showing one side of what the franchise has to offer. This isn't a bad thing. I'm glad Andor does its own thing. But it simply isn't close enough to the heart of this franchise to be the best part of it. And now, here we can argue all day, but for me, the core of Star Wars is and always will be the OT and the PT combined. While I might enjoy the OT more, the PT is undeniably incredibly important to what the franchise is today and so so much to the table. I don't think I need to mention the sequels (but jar-jar binks had more goddamn plot relevance than several sequel characters. just saying.) But, what I will say, it is the best of what Disney+ Era Star Wars has to offer. Because shedding the classic Star Wars feel for Andor was a decision that makes it a little less Star Wars to me - but it also makes the show work better in its own merit. And at the end of the day, no lightsaber battle, no cute reference, no beautiful scenery will EVER make up for how much these shows are simply empty husks lacking any real passion or fresh ideas for the franchise. And it's a real damn shame, because they could all have been beautiful. But Andor works - not even because of how damn good it is, but honestly because there has to be someone who truly makes us want to love these characters, because they cannot rely on us simply knowing them already. And that's when Star Wars is best! When someone makes something new, and you can just feel the passion and love for the world and the story and characters through the screen. And wether that be through how much George Lucas filling the PT with bad CGI just because he CAN, or through how beautifully tragic Cassian Andor's story is, I truly do not give a fuck.

I went a bit off-topic there lmao, but TL;DR: Andor is brilliant, and better on a technical standpoint than most other SW media. But not only is the franchise too vast to have a "best" part, Andor only shows a very specfic facet of what the franchise can be, and that's completely fine. It's definitely better than all other live action Disney+ SW shows though.

[redrascal1]

Still some interesting comments coming out of the JCF...

Whatever the issues are with this film, I’m sure they’ll be more driven by the fact that they sacked the writer several weeks before script submission deadline, and not the director per se. Sacking the writer, whom we are led to believe created an original story from the ground up (and at such a pivotal time), always results in a better film… said no one ever.

Precisely. Colin Trevorrow was fired before shooting started on Episode IX, and we got TROS.

I don't think Disney has ever said they have expectations that their characters will be just as beloved as the OT characters were. That idea has always been something fans gossiped about than anything based in reality. Nothing in Star Wars has come close to the popularity of the OT characters and don't think there is any intention to try to duplicate that. What is more of a reality though is that there is enough of an interest in the 'Rey' character to make more movies about her and that is what they are doing.

Is there? Are that many people really invested in Rey as a character to want to see another film all about her?

She was the protagonist of the ST, but supported by Adam, Oscar and John, all with their own fans. It wasn’t until TROS that she really took centre stage...and the film was a disaster. It was panned by critics, didn’t perform as well as expected, and the fallout from it is still going on almost four years since its release. The fact that DLF waited this long before announcing a new film speaks volumes. 

As the above poster says maybe the new characters won’t be as loved as Han, Leia and Luke...but there is a different between being ‘not as loved’ and ‘hated.’ And sadly post TROS hardly anyone had a good word to say about the Rey character. Oh, she has fans on the SW forums...but even there she has her critics. And the GA voted Ben/Kylo as the person they ‘wanted to see the most’ - not Rey.

To make matters worse, the choice of director shows that DLF have learned nothing from their mistakes. Rey’s detractors were actually vindicated by TROS. Those of us who tried to defend her were left with egg on our faces...and in my case the complete loss of affection for Rey. She went from a human being into an icon for religious dogma - because let’s face it, the Jedi from the PT were borderline religious fanatics, as even Lucas, their creator, showed. And instead of having the Order ‘evolve’, as Rian was clearly heading with TLJ, as even Lucas hinted at with ROTJ...all DLF did was throw everything away to recycle old ideas, trash any real advancement in the franchise and promote their tedious man hating agenda.

Will Rey be able to carry this film? I think not. With Adam’s screentime chopped down, John and Oscar reduced to comedy sidekicks, Rey was given the lion’s share of TROS...unlike in ROTJ where everyone had their chance to shine. And...the film was awful. Truly, embarrassingly awful. As was Rey.

I’m sorry...but this film might attract plenty of viewers on opening night but I expect takings to drop dramatically afterwards. We have had Rey the Magnificent, Saviour of the Galaxy quite enough with TROS, thank you. 

[kyluxtrashpit]

Tbf to my friend, they very much agree with my points, they just don’t enjoy internet arguing as much as I do lmfao and they had just made a silly little post about their own opinion and nothing more

Personally, I am a sequel lover despite the flaws. The characters are brilliant, TFA is a solid if a bit nostalgic movie, and the whole trilogy could’ve been incredible and game changing if only someone had sat down and actually planned the whole story at the start (and, you know, done it well). Alas, that is not what happened and now we live in a reality where we’re forced to discuss which movie it went wrong in (tlj or tros – haven’t met anyone yet who actually loved all 3 movies, but I’m sure they exist too)

I don’t know you, so I don’t mean to make assumptions, but I’m sure you and everyone else reading this have encountered the people I mean (and if you haven’t, check out twitter about once every six months cause damn, they really are out there shaming people lmao). I see what you’re saying, I just don’t think ‘objectively good movie that I personally didn’t enjoy’ applies to tlj

So here we go

I don’t actually disagree – maybe I’m strict lmao. I don’t think many movie trilogies actually would fulfill what I think makes a solid trilogy (books are better at it, some 3 season TV shows that could count as trilogies as well depending on plot structure do it well, but I digress)

Of the star wars trilogies, from the standpoint of ‘structural connections between the three’, I actually think the PT is the best, despite some flaws within the movies themselves. The OT has its flaws in this respect, but they make sense when you remember that the first movie was made without knowing if a trilogy would actually happen. GL has changed his story over the years as to exactly how much he planned from the start, but the general consensus is that the original movie was hoping to get a sequel, even if it had to be low budget, and the wild success is what allowed a trilogy to come into being. Given it was the first attempt and there were so many unknowns at the time of release, I’m willing to give them a pass on that

I will also say here that I think you’re misinterpreting what I mean by ‘gaining information’ as being part of a character arc. The information itself is not what constitutes an arc, it’s the character’s reaction to that information, how it changes their worldview, and how they come to terms with it and what they learn about themselves (and potentially others) in the process. For example, in star wars, a character learning they have the Force is not in itself something that moves the story forward. What they do with the Force, how their perceptions of themselves and the world around them and their place in it change, is the character arc. A training montage, for instance, isn’t about the physical skills, either, it’s about the emotional shifts that becoming stronger brings, the increase in confidence in themselves (or increase in fear of themselves, or doubts about the trainer, etc.) that comes as a result. Gaining information or skills are catalysts for emotional development, and it’s those emotional developments that constitute a character arc

See, I would say Luke’s arc is not quite complete at the start of rotj – because there is another goal that he now has, and that is saving his father. He knows that Vader is his father, which is revealed to him right at the end of the previous movie and confirmed in this movie so this is a clear thread of continuation, and he wishes to turn him from the dark side. The question no longer is ‘can Luke become a powerful jedi’ but rather ‘can Luke turn Vader? Or will Luke himself turn instead?’ And there is a moment when Luke falters, when he attacks in anger, but he manages to get it under control and remain the jedi he wished to be. And, ultimately, in the end, he does end up turning Vader, even if only for a few moments before his death

I discussed the ‘gaining information’ bit above, but I don’t disagree that beliefs play heavily into it. I myself define a story as there being a change from the start to the finish – something is different for the characters at the end than it was at the beginning in terms of their emotional development. It’s just that one can’t really have their beliefs changed without gaining the appropriate information to make them question their initial beliefs in the first place, can they?

Yes, but Luke does gain information that affects his development – is the reveal that Vader is his father not something that has a massive effect on his development as well as help drive the rest of his plot from then on? Is that not a piece of information the emotional climax of the movie depends on?

But I would ask again, how does one get from Belief A to Belief B? What is the process? Well, step 1 is having reason to doubt Belief A. Then interrogating it, confronting it. You also need to have reason to think Belief B might be the real truth here (and sometimes it takes a few interim beliefs to get there). And then you need to do the final steps of fully rejecting Belief A and settling into Belief B. But what else is the catalyst for any of these steps outside of ‘receiving information’ or  ‘growing skill-wise to the point where now you need to grow emotionally as well’? Growing in skills and knowledge are the vehicles through which characters can grow emotionally and thus change their beliefs

Well, tbf, I don’t expect any part of a trilogy to fully stand on its own and tell a fully complete story. Then it’s not really a trilogy lmao. What I meant was I want it to follow its own rules. For example, let’s take zombie movies. Zombie movies tend to have the rules be ‘if you get bit or scratched by a zombie, you will also become a zombie’. That then has to remain consistent throughout the movie and you can’t have people getting chomped on and not turning unless you give a reason why it’s different now. This is the minimum I expect from any movie ever, regardless of what it’s meant to be, and it’s something I discuss in the final 2 points of my initial argument (the ship chase and the little ship escape)

I see your point about ‘how far’ not being relevant, because yes, that’s true in real life, but also when you’re planning a story, it’s not a great look to have the third part be notably shorter and emptier than the rest – pacing is a skill that is very quickly being lost in modern media. But I’ll play along for the sake of not getting too stuck on the specifics

Rey

Off the bat, I don’t disagree – yes, she is very much telling herself her parents are coming back. Her inner self knows the truth, but she’s not ready to accept it yet, and her outer self is stubbornly insisting that yes, they’ll be back, I’ll be happy, everything will be good. Denial is a hell of a drug. But I don’t think she’s close enough to acceptance yet that it makes a meaningful difference in terms of her behaviour

So in terms of Big Name, I think she is thinking in terms of Big Important People. Han Solo – a hero, famous. Luke Skywalker – a hero, famous. Kylo Ren – well, not a hero, but he’s so connected and clearly powerful, he could do it if only he could be convinced. Finn and Han coming back for her and that meaningful connection they share is unrelated to who she thinks can go stop an oppressive regime a second time. You have to remember, living in the star wars universe, someone like Luke Skywalker is literally a being of legend. Rey herself thought he was a myth – in TFA she learns that he is in fact real and so is everything he did. This isn’t just A Guy, this is A Guy who has powers you can only dream of and was a huge part of what destroyed a huge oppressive government. Sure, he didn’t do it alone, we have Rogue One to prove that, but Cassian’s and Jyn’s and the others’ names aren’t the ones the galaxy at large knows about. No, they know about Luke, Han, and Leia plus maybe a few others. I can’t even think of a real life example to compare to tbh because we just… don’t have heroes on that scale. It’s more like living in the MCU and meeting Captain America. Of course, he’s going to be the one to go stop the bad guy, not you, random orphan who just happened to be in a certain place at a certain time, whether or not you may have some powers of your own

See, I don’t disagree she’s looking for belonging, but I think it’s very much divorced from her idea of ‘who needs to change the world’. She’s not going to Luke for love and acceptance, she’s going to Luke for the sake of Finn and Han and Leia and the people she does care about and who care about her in return. If only she finds Luke, as they told her, then things can start to be better. Then it doesn’t need to be like this and the First Order can be stopped because Luke Can Do That. It’s a practical connection – she wants Luke to go get a laser sword and make the FO go away forever like he did with the Empire

Now, her connection with Kylo does end up being more emotionally-based than practical, but it comes about accidentally, through the bond. She’s feeling despondent because she believes Luke is the only hope for the galaxy but he refuses to help, and Kylo just. Ends up being there and the forced proximity means talking and they bond. But I think when she realizes Luke is not going to join the fight, she then also transfers her belief of ‘who can save the galaxy’ onto him. Oh, Great Man Luke refuses, but Kylo, well, he’s of the same stock, Luke himself said he’s powerful – he could do it too. Rey would just have to convince him to but they have a connection now, she’s sure she can do it

This is what I mean by Big Name – Rey is, for lack of better terms, seeking a superhero to destroy a supervillain, without realizing that she herself has the power to be that kind of hero until she runs out of options when both of the ones she tried to convince refused. Then, well, that’s when she starts to think that hey, maybe she can be the hero after all. Maybe the galaxy doesn’t need Luke or Kyloben to become better – maybe she is enough to make a difference, maybe anyone who is willing to try is, and it’s not just about Big Heroes with Big Names and their laser swords

See, I agree overall on Rey, in terms of the broad strokes. But I also showed above that the tension of Luke coming to terms with Vader being his father and choosing to try to save him is the part of Luke’s story that is continued and becomes the central focus of rotj, therefore the OT does not fail the criteria while Rey would need a similar kind of bombshell to come to terms with and then act on in the third movie to make it work. Which is why I think the parental reveal should have been kept till then, as it would give her an emotional arc to go through with it while tlj, I mean, she was really just told and didn’t really struggle with coming to terms with it at all (sure, you could say it’s because she did already know on some level and this is the final acceptance stage, but the specific reasoning as to why her parents weren’t coming back wasn’t hinted at in any way in either movie before the reveal, so it should shake her yet it never did)

Finn

I’m not sure what I’m misunderstanding here, cause you seem to be saying largely the same things I am re: Finn in TFA. The thing is though I don’t believe that fighting for the sake of your friends, which yeah, okay, if you spin it that way it can be read as selfish (not derogatory, but rather just for the sake of yourself), but it is still the greater good imo to protect another. Who isn’t fighting for the sake of those they care about? The entire Resistance is, pretty much, though I’m sure there’s a few there fighting for revenge because they’ve already lost everyone they love (star wars usually doesn’t get quite that dark outside of Andor though lmao). That’s the thing about ‘fighting to save what we love’ – from the pov you’re arguing here, I’d argue he was already fully doing that during the snow fight. Was he trying to kill Kylo? Yeah absolutely, but he was doing it in order to protect Rey, unconscious in the snow nearby. Fighting what he hates and saving what he loves are one in the same during this fight

So sure, let’s run with what you’re saying and continue the theme: he went from running for the sake of himself alone, to fighting for those he specifically cares about, to running for those he specifically cares about, to fighting for… well, “saving what we love” – how is that a meaningful difference from ‘those he specifically cares about’? He’s still in the same place at the end of tlj as he is at the end of tfa. It’s a repeat with slightly different steps

The freeing the horses vs destroying the city – yeah, I get it, there’s a good point in the scene. TLJ has many individual scenes I think are good, even great, but all of the above is why it still doesn’t work for me. That would’ve worked had tlj been the first movie, or if it had’ve happened with different lead up and a different ending point, but I still do not see a meaningful difference between Finn’s overall arc in tfa vs tlj in terms of Belief A to Believe B, as you put it

Poe

See, I’m gonna have to disagree right off the bat cause probably about 70% of star wars canon takes place outside the films themselves. Anything canon is fair game imo, and a good portion of the overarching story takes place in the side media. Like, the entirety of Ben turning to Kylo happens outside the films. Anything that happens in the films where the specifics are left up for debate but is explained in canon side material is no longer up for debate. Canon is canon and that is what we are discussing here, so imo any comics, novels, shows, etc. that are relevant do factor in

Yeah, I just can’t agree. Think of it realistically: Leia gives him a mission to retrieve an extremely important and sensitive piece of intel. So Poe says cool, this is clearly important, I will bring the whole team to make sure nothing goes wrong. And Leia says no, please be discrete and Poe agrees. Nowhere do I see hero obsession, I just see logical trains of thoughts from both characters

See, now this is where I think you’re applying some unfair standards with respect to Finn and Poe. Finn fighting Kylo to protect Rey is selfish, because it’s coming from a place of his own personal care for her. It’s not for the greater good. But Poe deciding not to run but rather stay and fight to try to save the villagers (some of whom are also fighting, he’s not alone in it) that he doesn’t know and doesn’t care about is also selfish, because he’s chasing some “victorious hero moment”. What is the greater good then? He’s ready to give his own life to save the lives of strangers while still protecting the information by sending BB-8 away with it – this is self-sacrifice, not glory-chasing. How does one fight for the “greater good” if it doesn’t mean fighting to save people, either ones you care about or complete strangers who are innocent?

Tbf his plan is not great lmfao, he greatly underestimated his adversary and quite frankly I don’t think Poe expected to come back alive at that point (though again, he’s not alone, some villagers are fighting too). But he wanted to save the villagers, trying to save lives is not seeking a big hero moment. This is in stark contrast to his actions in tlj, where he sends his own people to their deaths without a moment of hesitation

I do agree he doesn’t have much of an arc in TFA though (probably cause his character was originally written not to survive the TIE crash at the start)

Kylo Ren

Okay so. Before I go anywhere else, let’s start with the Snoke influence lmao. So yes, Kylo still made his own choices, but to say Snoke was not a significant factor is… like Snoke is to Kylo as Palpatine is to Anakin. Kylo followed the path of his own volition, but it was Snoke who lit the neon sign pointing at it (I’d reference the Rise of Kylo Ren comics here, because they show it quite skillfully despite my quibbles with the rushed ending, but I suppose you wouldn’t count those either, even though they are once again canon. Also, in other comics, Snoke backhands Kylo to the point of drawing blood and drops him off a cliff with no care for whether he survives or not so. There is more than just manipulation at play here, so yes, I’d call that fairly sadistic treatment that is also canon). Kylo’s arc cannot be resolved without recognizing both that he chose this and that he was influenced to do so. Same with Anakin

Thing is though, an audience can forgive a character who chose evil for understandable reasons (such as manipulation or being in a difficult position, both of which apply to him). But if you had the choice to break out of it and chose to just double down and get eviler? Then what happens is the audience starts to decide that actually, no, you suck, you had your chance and you’ve decided to continue to be terrible, so I don’t want to root for you anymore. Is it a truer redemption? Sure, you could say that. But is it possible to achieve in a way that is convincing and satisfying to the audience in less than 3 hours when there’s several other characters who’s arcs also need to be completed? Good luck lmfao

Like part of the problem is the limit of the format – it’s a movie, it can only be so long. A TV show, you often have more time (though the short ass seasons we see these days are starting to have the same problems). Redemption arcs are hard to pull off because they take time and the further the character is at the start of the movie, the harder it’s going to be due to the runtime limit. That’s what they’re up against and why Kylo’s position as Big Bad at the end of tlj makes it extremely hard to redeem him in a way that doesn’t feel rushed with so little time (not impossible, I’ll give you that – but it becomes much more difficult to pull off)

Thing is though, if tlj had gone differently, the second movie could’ve given us the information on Snoke that would’ve made him a compelling threat. He is mysterious in tfa, sinister in how unknown he is. We don’t know what he’s capable of, who he is, where he comes from – all things I thought would at least begin to be revealed in Movie 2. Then in tlj, well, he’s not nearly as threatening as he initially seemed. Movie 2 could’ve given us all the information we need about him to make him more compelling in Movie 3. It just didn’t because Snoke died

I mean. If you don’t believe the OT was improved significantly by the context the PT gave us, we will quite frankly never agree and should probably just shake hands and call it a day lmao. Palpatine was never threatening to me as a child watching star wars – that was Vader. But watching the PT then seeing the OT again – palpy is terrifying. It adds so much to him and to the movies to have that additional context. So having Movie 2 add context to Snoke that makes him truly pants-shittingly terrifying in Movie 3 would’ve been the way to go imo

Two More Parts

I mean though. There is a reason for the eagles not to take the ring. This is not at all the point lmao but the eagles would not agree to, they’re too proud – there’s a characterization of them that explains it and is clearly shown in the lore

My preference tbh is stories that are largely accurate – so if there’s going to be a war, I want logical military strategy or a reason why these characters wouldn’t follow it. So possible explanations could be Hux toying with them, but then why doesn’t Snoke order him to do it (and maybe Hux refuses to follow the order cause fuck Snoke)? Or maybe Hux wants to but Snoke orders him not to or something like. It’s a fillable plot hole, but it’s a very large plot hole to me because it breaks my suspension of disbelief without any additional canon lore to fix it (like with the eagles). Maybe it didn’t for you, that’s great, but it did for me

I mean though. Why would Poe assume the plan is to just get in these tiny ships and, what, drift forever? How could they be going anywhere but a nearby planet (heavily armoured base or not)? His assumptions make no sense imo, and once again is creating conflict out of characters being unrealistically stupid. Characters make mistakes, they should, that’s what makes them interesting, but they also have to be mistakes that doesn’t make me put my hands up in disbelief because how lmao. It's just such an unnecessary thing, I feel like there were better ways to spark a disagreement

I still disagree on the hero moment thing following at all from TFA but I’ll leave that in the Poe section lmao

Anyway, I also appreciate the civility and well-thought out responses, let’s see what happens next

Idk how TLJ can be viewed as a continuation of TFA when it barely keeps the same themes, all the characters act differently, and it barely picks up on any of the story threads TFA left off

[themoonking]

sorry not sorry but if you were ever a prequel hater i'm gatekeeping you from being a prequel lover now that it's popular to do so. you don't get to shit on the prequels for no reason only to turn around and be a prequel stannie (ESPECIALLY a hayden christensen stannie) now that kenobi is the hot new star wars thing. obikins don’t touch my post, i am also gatekeeping you <3

[gch1995]

"how much of a sellout George Lucas is" I mean me personally, I do find it weird how the fandom has done a total 180 in their attitude towards him and generally treat him like a saint, but what do you mean by sellout?

I mean, the Disney Star Wars sequels are the biggest insult to the lessons of the first generation into the second generation of the Skywalkers. The Republic and the Jedi Council started off as a corrupt system. They had good intentions, but they enabled slavery in impoverished communities. They treated their Jedi soldiers like emotionally repressed cult members who were allowed no personal lives or close connections outside of their organization. They took in infants they started training at 4 as recruits in the Jedi. They had the shady Emperor Palpatine under their nose for 14 years as a politician and suspected nothing when fully experienced masters who’d been with the Jedi for a long time turned to the dark side, like Count Dooku. The Jedi Council had no idea how to raise these children to be emotionally/psychologically healthy functioning adults at all, and they weren’t trying to. They were grooming them to be compliant soldiers to their Order.

While all of the members in the Jedi were mistreated by the elders in the Council because of Yoda’s system, they particularly emotionally/psychologically abused and neglected Anakin Skywalker because he was older than their other recruits when they took him in at 9 years old. He came from a traumatic background of slavery and oppression, they treated him like the black sheep of their cult, he got the brunt of the council’s abuse because he was ambitious and emotional, and they didn’t do anything to help free his his mother and the other people in his home planet from slavery. This gave him completely valid feelings of anger and fear that they kept telling him to just get over because they made him “dangerous” for having, rather than encouraging him to talk about before handing him a lightsaber. They allowed Palpatine access to Anakin Skywalker alone from the age of 12 for “political reasons,” giving him opportunity to groom this kid for the dark side from right under their noses. This all culminated in Anakin Skywalker finally losing his shit at 23 years old by turning to the dark side and pledging himself to Sidious in his desperate fear over losing his wife.

Was Anakin a very selfish man in his fear who holds a level of responsibility for the terrible choices he made as an adult in his intense desperation to avoid potential abandonment? Absolutely. Did he become an addict who gave up fighting when offered the chance for redemption by Padme in his fear of abandonment and blind anger at a misperceived sense of betrayal when he saw Obi Wan walk out of that ship with a look on his face that made him sense he was ready to kill him? Absolutely. He may had untreated trauma, mental illness, and it is understandable why he got addicted to the high of the new dark power. However, that still doesn’t make it okay to murder children, destroy the majority of the Order/Republic, or to recklessly force choke Padme in a blind rage and frantic effort to avoid abandonment. That is still not an excuse to not even try to take the risk to stand up for himself and make the right choice out of fear and uncertainty of unknown from the beginning of ROTS when faced with the choice between Mace and Palpatine, though. I understand why he felt like he had little to no better choice in his desperation when his support system and options for escape from such a toxic environment were pretty limited to nonexistent, but he still ultimately realized that choosing Palpatine over Mace was a bad idea.

That being said, I also can’t completely hold all accountability on Anakin for his fall to the dark side because the level of privileges he held to escape out of the Republic safely were so limited to nonexistent since he had no fortune, family, friends, or connections outside of the Republic and the Jedi Order. He came from slavery and poverty. His wife had a job as a Senator in the Republic. The Jedi Council were shitty parents/guardians and shitty at their job as “space therapists.” Yes, absolutely meditation can be helpful as therapy for BPD and C-PTSD sufferers, which are the mental illnesses that Anakin Skywalker has the most symptoms of, but you also need to know that it’s okay to talk about those negative feelings without being judged. You need to know that people will allow you catharsis to deal with those feelings. You need to know that you have a shoulder to cry on and a sympathetic ear to listen if you open up. You need to know that your negative feelings are going to be heard without being told you’re “evil” or “dangerous” for having them.

Anakin really only got that from Padme in the prequel movies. At least, somewhat. She was willing to give up that life to run away with him because she loved him. However, she was also a senator of the Republic, who never really tried to do much to help the poor, or understood just how rough it was for Anakin to constantly feel terrified about being forced into poverty and slavery again.

Obi Wan tried better than most of the Council, particularly in Revenge of the Sith, but he still victim blamed him for Palpatine grooming him, even though he was the adult with primary care of Anakin who allowed for them to speak alone as a child in the first place. He usually just blew off Anakin’s fears as insignificant when he tried to open up to him about them. He was still a member of an emotionally/psychologically abusive, oppressive, and repressive cult who had been indoctrinated into it from birth. Obi-Wan wanted to let Anakin know he cared, but he was way too dedicated to the Order. He saw this boy as a little brother, rather than the father figure Anakin expected him to be. In AOTC, Anakin tells Obi Wan how he’s the closest thing to a father he’s ever had and he loves him, but Obi Wan says nothing in return. Then in ROTS, Obi Wan tells Anakin “You were my brother Anakin. I loved you.”

Padme was too dedicated to the Republic, and rather naive.

Obi Wan Kenobi and Padme were the only two somewhat healthy emotional support systems that Anakin had in the prequel movies and their roles were still both planted in the broken and toxic system of the Republic, so they couldn’t really be healthy and objective enough for Anakin.

The Republic and Jedi System were overall abusive, classist, corrupt, and hypocritical systems, in spite of its good intentions, that prophetically needed to fail Anakin Skywalker, so he would feel influenced to turn on them to become Palpatine’s accomplice and help him destroy it as Darth Vader because he had this really cataclysmic strength in his power with the force. Did all those innocent people actually deserve to die? No, of course, not. It should have gone far better than the near-extinction of the old Jedi and Republic. Everyone should have been less afraid to speak up for what was right, rather than enabling and perpetuating the wrong things for “the greater good” out of a fear of losing security. However, this kid growing up to help the Sith destroy the Jedi Order was the only thing that finally made most people realize that they fucked up in their negligence and complacency with a system that was messed up, in spite of its good intentions.

So for the next two decades, the Empire terrorize the galaxy with Darth Sidious using Darth Vader as his killing machine. We meet Luke Skywalker, and he’s the neutral good hero everyone needed to save the galaxy all along. Unlike his father before him, he had a good childhood, he had a healthy support system that’s fostered a strong sense of faith in his moral compass, so he is not afraid to stand up for what he believes in and fight for what he knows is right in regards to other people, no matter how much Obi Wan Kenobi, Yoda, his father, and Darth Sidious all try to convince him otherwise. He’s willing to murder a lot of people in self-defense. Luke’s biological father kills his aunt and uncle in cold blood, he hurts him, his friends, stalks him, kidnaps him, cuts off his hand when he refuses to join the dark side recklessly, and offers Luke up to Sidious to kill when he continues to keep refusing to join the dark side. Luke would have absolutely every reason to despise his father Anakin Skywalker, and want to kill him in vengeance or self-defense.

However, much like his father before him, Luke does really value close attachments, family, and friends so much so that he is willing to believe there is good in them and sacrifice his life for them, so when he has a force vision that Han Solo and Leia are in danger he lets Obi Wan and Yoda know that he’s leaving training to go save them. When Darth Vader tells him that he is his estranged biological father Anakin Skywalker, he’s rightfully angry, in denial, and terrified at first. Then, he confronts Yoda and Obi Wan about not telling him that Vader is his father Anakin Skywalker, and refuses to kill him. He can now recognize in that moment in ESB when Vader kidnapped him, told Luke that he was his father, and asked him to join him so they could kill the Emperor and rule the galaxy together, that in his own broken, dark, and twisted, way the good man that Anakin Skywalker was beneath the mask of Darth Vader was trying to reach out for his son’s love and companionship for help because he was tired of being Sidious’ slave to darkness after so many years. He only wanted power to rule the universe if he had someone from his family he felt he could love and trust to do it with him because he was afraid of being abandoned and lonely.

This is what gives Luke the empathy and strength to keep insisting that he knows the good man Anakin Skywalker is still under the dark shell of Vader in there in ROTJ, even after every awful thing that Anakin has done to him, his guardians, and his friends. He doesn’t have to feel afraid anymore, and he can make the choice he knows is right by just being true to what he believes to be right as Anakin Skywalker, not a Jedi, not a Sith, just the man who loves his family enough to turn back to the light to free himself from all the darkness, fear, anger, and self-hated consuming him, so he can save them instead. Thus, Anakin finally does find this inspiration to do so through Luke’s compassion and empathy for him by sacrificing his life to save him from Sidious after offering him up to him at the end of ROTJ because he realizes he’s tired of living in constant fear, anger, and self-loathing.

However, while Anakin Skywalker finally dies happily at peace with himself after years of being a slave to someone else with authority over him in his fear, the legacy of Vader lives on for pretty much everyone else, but Luke who knows that his father died by turning back to the light to save him because he offered him compassion and understanding when Anakin was lost in the darkness, rather than killing him, or turning against him in hatred.

Thus, the cycle of abuse and corruption in the galaxy is finally broken after two decades of the Empire ruling through Luke Skywalker convincing his father Anakin Skywalker to turn back to the light and kill Sidious by pretty much doing what he knows is right, rather than deferring to anyone else who tries to make him compromise his morality.

We didn’t need more of a story to tell after the OT and PT movies. We really didn’t. Yeah, there were certainly parts of the PT movies that could have been a bit more fleshed out, such as Anakin’s and Padme’s romance, Anakin’s childhood of slavery, and Anakin’s days in the temple as a Jedi padawan. However, I don’t think we needed to spend seven seasons focused on the Clone Wars with Anakin. I really don’t. Then, there’s also the fact that Anakin, Padme, and Obi Wan aren’t even the same characters anymore. Anakin’s more endearingly awkward, boyish, conflicted, emotionally unstable, and traumatized side have been undercut. He seems to act more like a man in his 30s. His, cocky and possessive side have been flanderdized. He doesn’t strike me as much as that emotionally vulnerable and sincere 19-22 year old young man he was in the prequel movies, which makes him less sympathetic. Padme is a snarky two-faced bitch, rather than kindhearted and loving. Obi Wan is too much of a hypocrite. Ashoka makes no sense as Anakin’s padawan when taken in with his reaction to the Council rejecting him the position of master as a knight after four years on it in the context of ROTS.

He’s not nearly as intelligent, nor does he look or feel sincere anymore when he says anything, whereas with Hayden Christensen’s Anakin I did get a sense that he still expressed his feelings and reacted genuinely. Those occasional outbursts he had before going to the dark side sincerely felt like someone who was slowly breaking from the inside out after being told over and over again to get over it every time he had valid feelings of anger and fear that he never got encouraged or taught how to release healthily.

While not an excuse for his crimes at all, part of what made Hayden Christenen’s version of Anakin (you know, the one that George Lucas originally envisioned) so tragic was that this young man still felt like a boy who was way out of his depth and trying his best to stay afloat for 14 years with the limited resources he had to survive in such a toxic environment. Then, he finally went haywire when he realized how easily this new power could be used as a release for all those pent up negative emotions of anger and fear recklessly in the heat of the moment because he couldn’t handle dealing with the guilt and shame of the horrible choices he had just made to try to learn that new power to save his wife. We know that Anakin has always been triggered by fears of abandonment.

After cutting off Mace Windu’s hand in a selfish impulse to learn this new dark power that Palpatine who has groomed from the age of 12 says can be used to save his wife, he’s like “What have I done?” He looks fucking exhausted! He looks broken. He looks physically ill in his submission towards Palpatine now that he realizes this guy is a Sith Lord, but he’s willing to sell his soul to him because the odds are against him trying to do the right thing anyway. He is afraid, he is tired of trying to fight to be good in an order that has always treated him like a black sheep of their cult since day one and offers little to no emotional support when he tries to reach out most of the time, anyway. His impulse control over his emotions had been weakening since slaughtering the Tuskens in AOTC for killing his mother, and after getting this new dark power he gets high on the feelings of false invincibility it gives him, and snaps.

Anakin came on rather awkward and too strong with Padme at first in AOTC, but it didn’t seem like he was intentionally trying to be cringey or too forward. It’s just that he lived in a cult with emotionally repressed monks who never let him talk to form relationships with other people outside of the temple. He was socially less mature for his age as a result. He still allowed for Padme to make her own choices, though. I do not understand how people don’t have the ability to get this.

TCW’s and Disney’s version of Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader were written to appease the venomous and entitled fanboy bullies in the fanbase who could never accept the fact that this character got written to be emotional, relatable, and sympathetic. They are the same ones who constantly bitched about Luke Skywalker being too much of a soft, emotional, and moody teenager, unlike the gruff, rugged, and emotionally reserved swashbuckling Han Solo action hero type. Sure, Luke and Anakin had angsty teen moments, though I’d argue that Anakin had more valid reasons to complain about life sucking than his son when he was growing up because his life genuinely was a constant tragedy with little to no relief in between, but their relatability and strengths were in how emotionally driven these characters were. They were led by their emotions of compassion, anger, love, naïveté, deference, and fear, for better or worse, and fanboys can’t stand that in action heroes. They weren’t driven by rationality, duty, or a desire to push away love.

These were the types of male lead characters that George Lucas originally envisioned for Luke and Anakin to be, but he sold them out to appease the entitled fanboys who kept bitching that Darth Vader needed to be this entity of pure evil who was completely responsible for his fall to the dark side, was always destined to be that way because he wanted to be, and keeps choosing to reject redemption for twenty three years every time a retconned survivor of Order 66 shows up who offers him compassion after recognizing him, he confirms he’s Anakin, has a brief flash of humanity, and then mercilessly slaughters them because he likes being evil, enjoys staying with his abuser as his killing machine. The strength of Luke’s character in his father’s redemption arc now has been undermined in Disney canon and TCW since he’s no longer one of the few people out there to recognize that Darth Vader was a shell of a monster that everyone else saw to cover up the deeply broken and twisted man Anakin Skywalker underneath it all.

My point is that if George Lucas really had any integrity at all, he wouldn’t have signed over his franchise to writers who he knew wanted for Anakin, Luke, Leia, and all these other characters to be more one-dimensional tropes. He wouldn’t have caved in to the bullying of the whiny fanboys in the fandom who kept insisting these characters had to be generic action movie heroes and villains by letting them be rewritten.

[the-moonlightwitch-official]

reveal pt.1

SUMMARY: You have been kidnapped and will remain captive until you fall in love with your kidnapper. You wake up with zero memories of who you are and how you got there. Overtime you gain memories that will unlock the emotions and experiences that you’ve had with your very eventful life, and the role that your captor has played in each of those past memories. 

NOTE: This story is loosely based off of a movie called HIPPOPOTAMUS. take note that the story is somewhat like the movie, except the captor is Aizawa. and the story will have some of its own twists, and the memories will be a little different than the ones in the movie. You can watch the movie  HIPPOPOTAMUS for free on TUBI

 SERIES WARNING: KIDNAPPING, MENTIONS OF DROWNING, MEDICATIONS, MENTIONS OF CUTTING A LIMB, BLOOD, EVENTUAL SMUT, TRAMUA, MENTIONS OF RAPE, PHYSICAL FIGHTING, MENTIONS OF DEATH AND LOSS, MINORS DNI, 18+ ONLY. 

You can't breathe. You feel heavy, like chains are pulling you down. The more you move, the heavier they feel, the faster you're dragged down. It gets harder and harder to reach the surface.  Flailing your arms and kicking your legs do you no good when you're drowning. The cold water causes goose bumps against your skin. 

Air bubbles escaping your mouth as you scream as hard and loud as you can. Nothing, Nothing, is coming to the rescue. The mucky, dark gray water consuming you and your memories. You gather all the strength you could possibly have left and push yourself to reach the surface. It’s working. You're so close. You kick your legs and feel the heavy weight on your ankles release. Furthermore, you feel lighter. You finally feel an escape. Your fight or flight kicks in hard. You're closer to the surface, you can just feel it. You can just smell the cool, fresh air already. Likewise, you reach your left arm up to touch the surface. Right before your fingers could touch the surface, everything fades to black. 

Blinking open your eyes, you see the color white surrounding you. Eyes fully opening and looking around. You notice that you're in a room, an old looking white room. Ice-cold, white floor tiles, white brick walls, old white door with deep cracks and chipping paint. To your right was a tiny window all the way up the wall. Way out of your reach and barred. To your left was a white toilet and sink. Above the toilet was a large drawing of a pink brain and next to it, above the sink, was the drawing of a side view of a blue chair tipping backwards. In front of you was the old white door, and on the left of the door was an old brown chair. On top of it sat a purse, a tan one. 

You were sitting up with both of your legs straight out in front of you. You were wearing a white tank top and gray shorts. Your hair was pulled up into a neat ponytail. Your head felt a bit tight. You reached up and noticed a white bandage wrapped around the middle of your head. A Blood stain on it. You gasped and moved to get up, but was quickly stopped by the sharp pain that ran through your calves and hamstrings. You let out an audible groan of absolute pain, and that's when you noticed white bandages wrapped around your knees, and a blood stain on the bandages where your leg ligament is located.  

Suddenly you can hear footsteps creaking on the floorboards above, and then they could be heard going down some stairs. The thumps of footsteps are heard coming closer, and it snapped you back to reality. You looked up from your legs when the old white door opened with a loud creak, and in shuffled a tired looking man with long black, unkempt hair. He was wearing a dark navy blue long sleeve shirt, the sleeves rolled up to his elbows, Black sweatpants, and gray slippers. He was nursing a cup of coffee. Not only that, but he was obviously toned and muscular. The long sleeve navy blue shirt hugging his biceps tightly. His forearms were muscular as well. He looked you over and shuffled over to the toilet and closed the lid and sat on top of it. One leg rested on the other as he sat back and sighed loudly. And looked back at you while taking a long sip of coffee. 

“Who are you, where am I?” He took another sip of coffee before answering your questions. “My name is Shota, and I have kidnapped you, and you're going to be held captive until you fall in love with me.” You looked at him confused, and he just looked amused as he took another sip. “Why?” was all you could ask. “Because I said so.” he answered. “Why can't I remember anything, why can't I remember who I am?” you asked. “Because you’ve been in an accident and lost all your memories.” you looked towards the ground in confusion and defeat. “Your name is Y/n, you're 28 years old, you are an only child,  you're still afraid of the dark, Your favorite color is f/c (f/c stands for your FAVORITE COLOR.) You will be served 3 meals a day with water to stay hydrated. I will give you a wash every other day. You are being given pain meds, and meds to stop your menstrual cycle. You're taking pain meds because your legs are in great pain, because I cut your leg ligaments.” you looked at him in absolute horror before he continued talking. 

He stalked over to you and crouched to your level. “Running away would be useless, as would standing or trying to walk. Trying to do any of that would result in agonizing pain, and it would take longer for your legs to heal. You might even possibly fuck up your legs permanently. If you need to go to the toilet, I will assist you. Do not try to do this yourself.” You looked at him, trying to process things. Because honestly, what the fuck. You watched as he stood back up and spoke again. “Lights on at 7:00 a.m. and lights out at 11:00 p.m. and do not try to escape. We’re 10 miles from the nearest household, and your legs won't work.” 

“Over there on that chair is your purse. I have not gone through it, for it is none of my business and your personal belongings.” You stared at the purse, before he started speaking again. 

“ If I were you y/n, I would listen to me and follow directions.” He said before turning around to walk out. Once he reached the door and opened it, you stopped him. “Wait!” he turned towards you. You played with the hem of your shorts nervously. “D-did you rape me?” he looked at you and honestly answered. “No.” before walking out. The door closed with a loud groan. 

You leaned your head against the wall and stared up at the ceiling in defeat. The occasional sound of footsteps going up a staircase and a loud door creaking open and closed a floor above the ceiling.  You looked down at the silver bracelet on your right wrist, thinking deeply. It read your name on it. 

~TIME SKIP~

 A red tray sat next to you. On it was a white plate with brown crumbs on it. A fork and knife laying on the plate. Next to the plate was a clear glass face down, and beside the glass was a tiny paper cup filled with a couple of meds. You ate the food and drank the water, but didn’t take the meds. 

You looked up nervously as the door crept open and in came shota. He stalked over to the tray next to you, taking a peek at it and looked up at the ceiling letting out a large sigh. He turned towards you and bent down to your level again, reaching to the tray and grabbing the small cup of meds and sliding it close to you. You stared straight ahead, refusing to look at him, before he spoke.  “The pain will only get worse, y/n, if you don't take your medication.”  Your kidnapper was met with silence for a few moments before he spoke again. “Please y/n.” You looked away from his direction and served him with more silence. He sighed again and turned towards the tray, grabbed it and stood up straight before heading towards the door. “Why are you doing this?” you asked. He ignored you and walked out, closing the door behind him. You let out a scream, and then a louder one. “HEY” “HEY” you screamed.

~TIME SKIP~ 

The lights in the room turned red, which filled the room with a ruby red color. You were asleep, your body sitting upright with your legs out in front of you.  Another tray sat beside you. On it is a white plate with a fork and knife on it, besides it was an empty clear glass. Next to the other side of the plate was a tipped over, empty medicine cup. Indicating that you took your meds this time. In front of you was your kidnapper, shota. Still wearing the same outfit he was wearing earlier that day. He stood closely in front of your unconscious body, his feet planted on either side of your legs as he stared down at you. He slowly picked up his right foot and moved it closer to you, and then his left. The slippers he was wearing on his feet, only made soft sounds as he was trying to be quiet.  

He bent down the upper part of his body and gently grabbed both of your arms, and laid you down sideways on the ground, he took a small step back before moving your legs as well. Trying to put you in a more comfortable position. 

~TIME SKIP~

The sun came through on the upper window on the wall and bathed your body in soft light. You're still fast asleep and laying in the same position Shota had moved your body into. The door creaked open and in came Shota carrying a tray with your breakfast on it. His gray slippers made soft sounds against the floor as he quietly shuffled in and sat the tray down next to you. Shota turned towards you and crouched to your level. He looked at you in admiration. Before, he pulled a tissue out of his pocket to blow his nose. Afterwards, he stuffed it back into his pocket and grabbed your arms to pull you back up into a seated position, and extending your legs outward. He Then knocked on the wall a couple of times above your head. You startled awake. He took a step back and watched as you looked around.

 “Breakfast is served y/n.” The door shut, indicating that he left after saying that. You looked up immediately, as if you had a plan. 

Calming down your heaving breathing was easy. Everything you just did made you feel like a kid that got caught with their hand in a cookie jar. The door opened and in came shota with another tray of food. He crouched down and sat it in front of the tray he gave you earlier. Right as he was about to grab the tray from earlier and leave, he looked at you and grabbed your chin, moving your head left to right and inspecting you. Your face was a flush red and your breathing was heavy. He sighed, standing up and facing away from you. “You're in pain, y/n, you should have told me.” He reached into the right pocket of his sweatpants and pulled out a dark brown pill bottle. He twisted open the bottle cap, tilting the bottle, and began to gently shake the pills out into the palm of his hand. “Now I have to up the dosage.” 

You struggled to scoot across the room and tried to keep the groans of pain quiet. Likewise, you finally made it somewhat close to the chair near the door, before giving up scooting because of the pain and just reaching as far as you can for the purse. You successfully grabbed it after a few attempts and flipped the top of it open and immediately began rummaging through it, trying to find something that could get you out of here. You dropped items from the bag onto the floor as you looked, such as a tampon bag, a pen, chapstick, gum, and a yellow tennis ball. You lost hope. Your hand hit something in the bag before you grabbed it and took it out. It was a small makeup mirror.

Something else collapsed out of the purse as you took the mirror out. You looked down. It was your ID. You held up the mirror and ID. You looked at your picture on the card and then at yourself in the mirror. Looking at the information on the card, you could tell that he was telling you the truth about your name and age. You closed the mirror and put it back in the purse along with your card. You grabbed the tennis ball and held it close to you as you pondered things, but your train of thought was quickly broken by a loud footstep upstairs. The footsteps making the light flicker.

From your short time here, you quickly learned that a loud footstep that makes the light flicker is an early sign that he’s on his way to your room. You shuffled everything back into the bag and threw it back onto the chair, before scooting as fast as you could back to your original space. Never noticing that the tennis ball rolled out of the purse. Once your back hit the wall, you looked to your right and noticed the ball before reaching over to grab it and putting it in the back pocket of your shorts. 

He put the cap back onto the bottle and put it back into his pocket. Crouching down to your level, he grabbed the unfinished water from your breakfast tray, and held his hand up that was full of the pills. His hand was in a soft fist to protect the pills in case you lashed out. “Open your mouth now.” You hesitated before opening your mouth. He smiled, very pleased that you didn't fight him. He gently put all the pills into your mouth. Once the pills were in your mouth, He raised the water to your lips. “Swallow.” He tilted your chin up as you gulped down the water. “Good.” 

You looked up at him. His long, raven colored hair covered most of his face. He wiped some hair out of his face, and you noticed the scar under his right eye. He looked back down at you. “Show me.” He gently grabbed your chin as you opened your mouth again to show that you swallowed all the pills. Furthermore, he patted your head and took the breakfast tray and left the room. 

You watched as he shuffled away, He opened the door and turned towards you with a soft smile before closing the door. You rested your head against the wall. 

“Holy shit, that was close.”

[nobodysdaydreams]

Katie I do love your thoughts. The sentence “I was 9 when TFA came out”, was painful to read, but it is nice to hear the opinion of someone who was younger when they first saw the movies. I’ll put the rest of my thoughts on Rey’s lineage under my “Keep Reading” but boy do I have thoughts™️ on that too.

For Rey’s parents, my controversial take is that it doesn’t matter whether Rey was Ben’s sibling, a Kenobi, a nobody, a Palpatine, or anything else. No matter what option they chose, there would always be parallels for people to make gifs out of and there would always be someone out there to give their thoughts on why another option would have actually been better, according to them (biggest criticism of Rey and Ben being siblings is it’s a rerun of the OT twist and also implies Han and Leia abandoned or lost their daughter, people don’t like the idea of Kenobi breaking the Jedi code and having a kid, etc.) Any of those options would have worked with the dyad too. Making her a nobody from a sand planet and Ben a ruler from a powerful family would have paralleled Anakin and Padme. Making her a Kenobi or a Palpatine would again call on those prequel era parallels, and making her and Ben siblings would have paralleled Leia and Luke (and although there are logistical issues with that one, like how she would get separated from Leia and Han, I agree Katie, that is an intriguing option).

But at the end of the day, I don’t think the critical failure lies in which option they went with. The flaw was in the execution. Sure, you can go back and say her connection with Ben was “a clue”, but you could say that about any of these options. If they did plan it out from the beginning, they then did a bad job of executing it. For both Rey and the audience.

For Rey, they did have her struggle a bit with the dark side and mystery of her past, but the fact that the scene with her and Kylo was “you’re a nobody, but I care about you, join me” and not “you’re part of this evil family, but I care about you, join me” doesn’t really set that up. She also only has one movie to emotionally wrestle with the fact that this is what her lineage is and so much plot is being thrown at you, it’s hard to take the time to really follow those emotions they way they deserved to be followed.

For the audience, it’s really bad. Let me explain why. I saw this movie with my family, who were not Star Wars fans, but they had seen TFA and TLJ. And they were super confused throughout the movie. Why? Because they had no idea who Palpatine was because no one in the previous two films ever used his name when recounting the story of Darth Vadar. Fans who have been Star Wars fans their whole lives tend to overlook this issue, but you see the problem very clearly when you look at the other trilogies. You can start Star Wars with the OT or PT and not be confused about the plot. Sure, you’re missing some information, it’s not the full story, but it’s a part of the story you can follow as a starting point. If you try to start your intro to Star Wars with the ST, you are gonna be so confused when this Palpatine guy shows up out of no where. And you’re not gonna care at all because you don’t know who he is and the movie goes into it with an attitude of “you should know this. When you liked TFA you should have had enough time to go back and watch the other movies. If you just didn’t have the time to do that, then sorry, but we’re not explaining anything”. TFA did such a good job giving something that brought in new fans and TROS did the exact opposite. Sequel fans who didn’t know who Palpatine was weren’t introduced to him in a way that made them excited to go back to see the OT and PT, they were introduced to him in a way that felt like being scolded for not doing their homework earlier, and that’s an awful way to appeal to new fans. He could have come back, Rey could have been a Palpatine. Not everyone is gonna agree that that’s the best option, but that itself isn’t the issue. The issue is how it was presented. There was a way that new fans could have followed and enjoyed but this was not it.

But I’m saving my TROS thoughts for later because… wow. There’s a lot there.

Since posting on the potential for the Sequel Trilogy (especially in regards to Leia and Ben's arcs between TLJ and TROS), @myfairkatiecat has asked me for my thoughts. I apologize in advance. There's so much I don't even know where to start. I suppose the best place to start is my thoughts on TFA and TLJ:

I liked the force awakens. It was the first Star Wars movie I'd ever seen. I wasn't planning on getting into Star Wars, because like most people who didn't grow up with the movies, I still knew all the twists, all the memes, and all the quotes. What was the point in seeing it? I knew it was good, but it was hard for me to feel the magic of seeing it for the first time when I'd seen so much out of context already. But the force awakens was new. I know a lot of fans at the time were like "this is a cheap new hope remake" and sure, it had a similar plot structure, but it also introduced a lot of new ideas, characters, and concepts, and I think it succeeded in it's two goals: 1) Offering the beginning to an excited new story that could go in a number of interesting and cool directions. 2) Capturing what was so good about Star Wars in a way that would bring in new fans. It not only succeeded, but it completely knocked it out of the park, at least for me. I remember sitting in the theater, before the movie was even over, and thinking to myself "Dang it. They did it. I didn't think they'd do it, but they actually did it. This is the start of another hyperfixation. Maybe one of the worst I've ever had." I knew 100% that the moment I had free time that this was going to take over. And it did. I appreciated the other movies so much more after having had the experience of watching a Star Wars movie unspoiled that captures that feeling. This brought me into the fandom. It might not be everyone's favorite movie, but I loved it.

The Last Jedi was actually good, but it made one fatal mistake. Two if you count the fact that they skipped all the Ben and Leia stuff, but I forgive them for that because it's not like they could see the future and knew Carrie Fisher was going to pass away. If they knew that, I think they would have written a different script. But I liked most of it. The force dyad stuff was incredible. I was in that theater completely in awe because I gotta hand it to them: I would never in a million years come up with the force dyad stuff, and it's better than anything I could have thought up with on my own. 1000/10. Amazing. Fantastic. So what then is my problem with TLJ? Finn. Especially because he was right where he needed to be. They could have even done his arc in a lazy way, and I would have still accepted it. All they had to do was have him panic and rescue Rose from Hux, accidently connecting him to the force, and then he could suddenly be like "woah I'm force sensitive." All they had to do was have him find some files on where he came from and info on all the stormtrooper brainwashing so that we could continue to explore the mystery of his past instead of pretending like it doesn't matter. For heaven sakes, he was right there on the ship. We saw a hologram of child Finn in Force Awakens when they were going over his file. Phasma could have offer him information about himself or his past in exchange for his freedom or betraying the rebellion. Not to mention Finn's discovery his force sensitivity would have parallel Rey discovering she's a dyad AND her not receiving any answers about her past, which would that tied the movie together thematically. That plotline was right there on a silver plater, it was the obvious choice, the easy part, it baffles me that they fumbled it, especially when the stuff they did with Kylo and Rey completely knocks it out of the park. I've probably watched the scene of the two of them fighting in the throne room the most of any Star Wars scene. But I don't think I've ever gone back to rewatch one of Finn's scenes from TLJ. But I could have and that frustrates me so much. I left the theater of TFA being like "Dang. They got me. I'm hyperfixated now.", and I left the theater of TLJ feeling kind of conflicted. On the one hand, the force dyad stuff was one of the best things I'd ever seen. But on the other hand, I wanted more out of Finn. The Rose and Finn kiss came out of nowhere for me, and it made me worried they were gonna waste time in the third movie with an unnecessary Rose, Rey, Finn love triangle then ended with Finn and Rey together (turns out I did not need to worry about that. They had plenty of other ways to waste my time. But I'll put my thoughts on the romance plotlines in another post because...romance wasn't the biggest draw for me anyway, and my takes on it are a tad more nuanced than "love it or hate it with everything in my soul" which seem to be the only two options). But my other worry was that they didn't seem to know what they were doing with Finn. They also have a lot of "Main characters" to keep track of now. The OT trilogy had the classic "Leia, Luke, Han". Now we have Rey, Poe, and Finn, but Rey and Poe didn't meet until the end of the second movie, and also we have Rose now, and then we have Kylo/Ben and his whole dyad bond, he's much more of a main character than dark mysterious villain. In the OT trilogy, was Vadar conflicted? Sure, but we as the audience didn't fully know that until the end, we didn't need to spend a ton of screen time following his internal journey. But we did need that for Kylo/Ben because of everything they set up for him. With all of that, plus Carrie Fisher dying (which would likely force them to rework a lot of their plotlines), I did have concerns going into TROS. But, since they blew me away with the force dyad stuff, I held out hope that they wouldn't fumble it. Sure, I saw the negative reviews. But everyone was crying about TFA and TLJ too, and I enjoy those. So I held out that hope until the end.

And...well... I have thoughts on TROS too. But I'll save those for another time. Also: I know things can get heated in the star wars fandom, and while I welcome engagement and it's totally cool if you hated TFA, loved Finn's TLJ arc, and hated the force dyad, (different opinions are fine!) please don't hate on my posts and please be respectful. Thanks! 🥰

[this-acuteneurosis]

Part of the reason Anakin's characterization is so varied is probably because the clone wars had a bunch of different writers who all wrote Anakin differently but it is safe to say that your Anakin is one of my favorites! Can't wait to see how things go with him!

I mean, multiple writers certain can explain why TCW Anakin is internally inconsistent.

But I don't think we can dismiss the influence of the Cold War and Vietnam War on shaping the Empire and its military, and Darth Vader's character, in comparison to TPM being released in 1999, and AtoC coming out the year after 9/11. Like...geeze, where do I even begin. I am not a history buff, but having lived through 1999-2002 and the culture shift that happened then, uh. Yeah. I'd argue that Anakin's path to evil, and the shape that evil took, was strongly impacted by the world events that were going on. (Anakin killing the Tuskens has received a lot of critique generally, but uh, yeah. That? In 2002? Correlation is not causation, but...)

And that's before I swallow a repeat rant of adding "The Chosen One" to Anakin's backstory in the PT.

Which was always the risk of telling the story backwards. Consistent characterization is hard enough in linear, forward moving stories.

As a result, in much of the fic that I've read about Vader, there are lot of interpretations of the character with a compulsive lack of control, and a delight and interest in violence and pain, that doesn't ring true for me personally. The first example I can think of where someone deliberately and successfully reconciled the active, aggressive, impulsive Anakin of the PT to the cold, looming (but still kind of impulsive) Vader of the OT is @chancecraz in Of Queens, Knights, and Pawns, where (spoilers for fic) events from the PT and Rebels were used as a through line to get Vader to a point where he had sort of burned himself out into being suicidal. (Double Agent Vader starts with a still pretty young, already burned out, depressed, apathetic Anakin, so while I love it, it's not a good example.)

I didn't like RotS initially because I didn't see a strong connection between the Anakin/Vader of that movie and the Vader/Anakin I remembered from a pre-PT era. And I know there has been a bunch of back filling of those years, but every time I'm reminded there are games and books and additional shows I could consume that would "fix" it, I just...

I remember that I'm really an outsider to this fandom. And that was a huge worry for me when I started writing fic for it.

(Kinda still is, so I'm glad you like this Anakin, anon.)

[juuls]

Reylo The Last Jedi & The Rise of Skywalker fics and AUs that were far better than the movies! ;)

Look, okay. Here's the hard truth: A lot of us wish the series was cancelled after The Force Awakens because what in the actual hell was all that nonsense that followed? Anyway, I was in the mood for TFA or TFA-like fics and my readers responded!! I received TLJ and TRoS fics that are actually quite good, so I'll be addressing those in this post! Thank you everyone for contributing! This is almost entirely a crowd-sourced fic rec list from one of my other posts.

Just in time for reading season (keep an eye on @fanfic-reading-challenge for this and next year’s challenges!) and revisiting some of the best fics from or relating to fixing two of the sequel trilogy fiilms (sigh). There are a couple that delve into the OT and PT but are rare, and there are a few ships other than Reylo, which will be clearly marked, don’t worry!

Fics will be alphabetized by story name, and may need to be broken into a couple posts, which I’ll link together here at a later point.

The point of my fic rec requests were for that old-school, fight-me bro. proud to be a reylo feeling and the sigh we all inevitably let out. There was just something so magical about TFA stories, really….

I’m a Millennial but I’m going to say something really Boomer: I wish for the good ole’ days!! :’(

Included are classics, hidden gems, very… unique fics, some that were written post-TFA and then others that were written post-the other movies because we all just miss TFA too much, hahaha. There are also AUs that fit TFA-themes or were written in the pre-TLJ years.

TFA-related Part One | TFA-related Part Two | TLJ-related & TRoS-related

Dates are posted as Y/M/D. Coloured titles are non-Reylo (or at least not just Reylo) Please ignore them rather than making a deal out of it!

***Fics recommended almost exclusively by stranger submission with a few thrown in from my bookmarks!***

Beautiful images gifted and also commissioned for me with @pandacapuccino the wonderful lady she is!

_~_

Fics that make The Last Jedi far more satisfying.

a promise of grace (under silver-grey skies) by meritmut

First day of posting: 2018-02-24

Ship: Reylo

Rating: T

Total word count: 47,388

Chapters: 10

Summary: After the war, he's shipped off to Ahch-To to live out his days in exile among the seabirds and the ghosts. Every six months, someone will visit and make sure he's still alive. /// At least, that's the plan. /// (Or: the war for Ben Solo's heart, featuring an immanent cosmic entity, an island where time is wonky, and a stubborn twentysomething from Jakku.)

As Stars Through Our Souls by LadyRhi

First day of posting: 2020-06-04

Ship: Reylo

Rating: E

Total word count: 201,472

Chapters: 20/34 (last updated 2021-05-18)

Summary: Rey is the bright hope of the Resistance, but as loss piles upon loss she feels herself begin to crumble beneath the weight of their expectations. More lost than ever, Rey feels a growing desperation to find her place in all of this, heartbroken at the thought that it could mean going on alone. One night, when her sorrows allow the Force to reach out across the galaxy and through her tattered barriers, she rediscovers that sense of connection she'd felt so briefly months before... and turned away from. When she dares to offer a second chance, Rey learns the man she failed to cut out of her heart still longs for her with equal intensity. Now, Rey and Ben Solo have a secret. Each committed to opposite sides in a war tearing the galaxy apart, they nurture the unusual Bond they share in stolen moments that grow more meaningful each time the Force draws them together. As the stakes rise ever higher, they learn just what it means to have a love worth fighting for. What is this, Ben... what are we?

Burgeoning Hope by crossingwinter

First day of posting: 2018-02-03

Ship: Reylo

Rating: T

Total word count: 14,162

Chapters: 9

Summary: When word gets out that Rey is pregnant, the Resistance is startled. Had she really slept with Luke Skywalker during her mission to bring him back from his seclusion? He’d been isolated for so long, but then again he had never seemed to have any interest in that particular pleasure of the flesh. But who else could have fathered her child? (Spoiler alert: It wasn’t Luke Skywalker) (Spoiler alert #2: It was Kylo Ren)

Constellations of You by ebongawk (makeshiftcandy)

First day of posting: 2018-03-12

Ship: Reylo, background FinnRose, implied Stormpilot

Rating: E

Total word count: 181,298

Chapters: 39

Summary: Four months following the Battle of Crait, Rey has closed off her side of the Force bond between her and Kylo Ren, but not without consequences. He's taken on the title of Supreme Leader of the First Order, putting an insurmountable bounty on her head for the murder of the former Supreme Leader. Leia has grounded Rey, keeping her confined to the new Resistance base on Barkhesh. Despite her protests, Rey falls into a boring routine, until she's given a Force vision urging her that the answers she seeks are on Tatooine. /// She follows her intuition, running to Tatooine; running inexplicably to Kylo Ren.

Everything In Between by Polkadotdotdot

First day of posting: 2018-06-18

Ship: Reylo

Rating: E

Total word count: 110,680

Chapters: 32

Summary: Ben loves Rey. Rey loves Ben. If only it were that simple. /// After Crait, what's left of the Resistance go on the run. With Poe trying to win Rey's already stolen heart and Rey and Ben acting like stubborn fools over joining the other, Leia just wants to know why Rey is talking to herself...and how she ended up in the family way. /// Redemption is a beautiful thing.

Exile by Ernzo

First day of posting: 2017-12-25

Ship: Reylo

Rating: E

Total word count: 25,506

Chapters: 11

Summary: The war is over and the First Order has fallen. Ben has returned home to face his consequences. /// A story of Rey and Ben finding peace in the aftermath of war as Ben accepts his punishment.

Footnotes by Camucia

First day of posting: 2017-12-18

Ship: Reylo

Rating: E

Total word count: 121,823

Chapters: 22

Summary: Rey is having an incredibly difficult time deciphering the Jedi texts, much less actually gaining any meaning from them. In a moment of frustration, she knocks over the final, unopened volume, discovering that someone has left some very insightful commentary - and poetry.

Free to Fall by uselessenglishmajor

First day of posting:

Ship: Reylo

Rating:

Total word count:

Chapters:

Summary:

Hand of Fate by Sweetestcondition

First day of posting: 2017-12-18

Ship: Reylo

Rating: M

Total word count: 101,235

Chapters: 33

Summary: Rey is offered a choice at the end of Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi. This time, she takes the hand of Kylo Ren, grasping at the chance to transform the First Order from the inside. She hopes to create a Resistance from within, starting with the heart of Ben Solo.

No Rest For The Wicked by Avdal

First day of posting: 2017-12-22

Ship: Reylo

Rating: E

Total word count: 111,555

Chapters: 24

Summary: No one said being a Jedi was going to be easy… /// The sneak attack had come out of nowhere. Kylo had boarded her ship and the battle that followed should have sealed both of their fates. /// Except that it hadn’t, and now they’re both stranded. Trapped on a strange and remote alien world with only each other to depend on. Good thing they didn’t just have sex only an hour before, effectively ruining both their chances at behaving like reasonable and rational force-wielding adults…

Not Alone by rightforlife

First day of posting: 2021-01-28

Ship: Reylo, Leia & Ben Solo

Rating: E

Total word count: 72,008

Chapters: 12

Summary: For balance to be achieved, the Force required a union of light and dark. Fortunately for the Galaxy, it accomplished this quite easily. Unfortunately for the scions of light and dark, they didn’t exactly have a choice in the matter. Or: When Rey finds herself inexplicably pregnant, she has to learn how to deal with morning sickness, an overly doting sort of mother-in-law, and a supremely overprotective baby daddy who would tear down the Galaxy if anyone dared tried to hurt what was his.

Powerless by Perry_Downing

First day of posting: 2018-03-27

Ship: Reylo

Rating: M

Total word count: 212,944

Chapters: 68

Summary: She looks down at the floor and whispers, “I’m pregnant.” There’s no thought as he rushes to her, towering over her smaller frame. He grabs her face and holds her firmly as he forces her eyes to his. “Whose is it?” he hisses. Mine, mine, it should have been mine! Her startled eyes go wide and fill with confusion. “Is it FN-2187’s?” he growls. She looks at him like he’s speaking Huttese. “Tell me!” Kylo bellows. He can barely hear her when she stutters out, “Y-yours.”

Safe Harbor by ItsALilah

First day of posting: 2018-04-02

Ship: Reylo

Rating: E

Total word count: 193,465

Chapters: 51

Summary: After the ultimate betrayal, Rey flees to the only person she knows she can still (kind of) trust. But as she spends more time with Kylo Ren, she begins to understand just what kind of future he was offering in the Supremacy's Throne Room. /// She really doesn't hate it. At all.

Saving the Last Hope by Aaveena

First day of posting: 2020-05-23

Ship: Reylo, background HanLeia, Big Ole Happy Skywalker Drama Family

Rating: T

Total word count: 262,160

Chapters: 46

Summary: “Rey, I’m not – I’m not delirious. That -” He points towards the blond boy on the other side of the rocky enclosure, still passed out but now stirring fitfully. Kylo’s hand is shaking as he gestures desperately towards his young uncle. “That’s Luke.” He chokes out past the lump in his throat.  --- Kylo Ren and Rey find themselves in the desert on Tatooine in 0 BBY. When Obi Wan Kenobi dies long before he is supposed to, it is up to Kylo to make sure the timeline stays the way it should, or else risk never being born. Of course, Darth Vader, who has sensed not only a great disturbance in the Force, but also the death of his former master, is not going to make things easy for Kylo. How will Kylo deal with being forced to work against his beloved grandfather? Super fun and non-traumatic family reunions, time travel hi-jinx, and confusion ensue! E-Rated chapters linked as separate parts.

saying your names by neonheartbeat

First day of posting: 2018-12-15

Ship: Reylo & just about all of the awesome Knights of Ren, plus a wild Poe appears

Rating: E

Total word count: 93,709

Chapters: 28

Summary: The Supreme Leader calls back his Knights of Ren as a preemptive measure against a suspected plot to overthrow his rule. The Knights are not what they might appear to be, however, and after a Resistance pilot is unexpectedly taken prisoner, things get complicated on every side. -- "To truly judge the character of any ruler, one must turn one's attention to those he surrounds himself with..." -A Treatise On Monarchy and the Conduct of the Prince, Chandar Voss, Alderaan

Sealed To Me by glitter_reylo

First day of posting: 2017-12-15

Ship: Reylo, implied Stormpilot

Rating: E

Total word count: 152,077

Chapters: 50

Summary: Rey turns around again, starting to descend the steps, leaving him alone in the temple. ‘You can’t be here. Go back to your sycophants.’ He stands up abruptly and she flinches, shying away. ‘Have we really regressed back to being enemies now? After all this time?’ He motions between them, to the ephemeral, unbreakable bond. Rey faces him, her hazel eyes so full of sorrow; it pierces straight to the core of him, an arrow to the heart. ‘You made your choices. You chose the Dark, Ben. You chose to kill the rebels rather than help them. There’s nothing I can do to help you anymore. So yes, you’re my enemy. And you need to leave.’ She turns away again, starting down the flight of steps that lead away from the cliff. The water in the pool undulates as her footsteps peter out, and Kylo stares into the pool, at his reflection, the scarred, damaged face that doesn’t even come close to portraying the conflict within. The face of the First Order. He hates it more than he ever has. You're no Vader. You're just a child. In a mask.

Songs of Innocence, Songs of Wisdom by Cosmogonika

First day of posting: 2017-12-21

Ship: Reylo

Rating: E

Total word count: 217,247

Chapters: 36

Summary: Only days after their defeat on Crait, Rey and Leia embark on a secret mission to find an old ally. Kylo and Rey are faced with more questions than real answers.Being on opposite sides of the Force and sharing a bond is not an easy task, and both of them are faced with more contradictions and conflicts than clear routes to follow, while their cat-and-mouse chasing will shape their destinies. From Innocence to Wisdom there is a long path. Between political plots and old allies and enemies emerging from the past, the new teachings of the Force will unveil ancient hidden secrets. From their interpretation rests the fate of the whole galaxy. How will the future unfold?

Tactical Surrender by destinies

First day of posting: 2017-12-28

Ship: Reylo

Rating: E

Total word count: 155,839

Chapters: 23

Summary: “It was foolish of you to come here,” he says. “You won’t escape this time.” Rey looks at him, at the Stormtroopers, at the combat walkers. She gives the illusion of thinking it over, and then says, “You’re right." She presents her wrists to him. “I surrender myself to the authority of the First Order.” -- Three years after the Battle of Crait, Rey, Resistance hero and teacher to a budding new Jedi Order, once again delivers herself into the hands of the enemy. To provide cover for a maneuver that could deal a serious blow to the First Order, she must gamble with the thing she knows its Supreme Leader wants most: herself.

Thankless by Lyledebeast

First day of posting: 2018-08-20

Ship: GingerRose

Rating: M

Total word count: 48,847

Chapters: 17

Summary: Rose takes on a duty that no one else wants. Hux can't make any sense of his life. Both think they have the other all figured out, but what will happen as they get to know each other better?

They Don't Have A Word For What We Are by andabatae

First day of posting: 2019-02-21

Ship: Reylo, background FinnPoeRose

Rating: E

Total word count: 183,096

Chapters: 69

Summary: After Crait, Rey retreats to Jakku to grapple with her past... and her unwelcome attraction to Kylo Ren. -- Kylo Ren was a monster. A murderer. So why couldn’t she stop thinking about him? Rey was already a bad Jedi, so in the dark of the AT-AT that had sheltered her during her vulnerable years, she gave in to the allure of the fantasy. Kylo Ren’s tall frame and big hands, his dark hair and hungry eyes. His desperation as he’d said “Please.” The sheer size of him, combined with the peek at his vulnerabilities she’d gotten from this strange, antagonistic Force bond. As if she’d summoned him, his consciousness brushed against her own, dark and tempting. You hate me, he said in her mind. There wasn’t a word to encompass how she felt about him. Yes, she agreed, ignoring the twinge of guilt.

Unbidden by Perry_Downing

First day of posting: 2017-12-15

Ship: Reylo

Rating: E

Total word count: 183,798

Chapters: 62/64

Summary: "I'll destroy her," rings in his ears and he's shocked by how shamed he is he ever said those words. He’d meant them, oh how he’d meant them. He’d been lost to his rage and he’d thought he could … he knows now that he could never hurt her. Rey ... Then Kylo pulls himself to his full height. She rejected him. Met his offer with going for a weapon. Like she always does. She always, always strikes first. Shooting at him on Takodana, attempting to on Starkiller Base … she was even the one to ignite her blade in those snowy woods. --- Kylo struggles with Rey's rejection and a new threat pushes them together again.

World In My Eyes by sasstasticmad

First day of posting: 2017-12-17

Ship: Reylo

Rating: M

Total word count: 96,457

Chapters: 22

Summary: "The bond should be dead," Rey says through gritted teeth. "Just like you.” /// "The bond is only this strong because of you," Kylo Ren tells her. "You're the one who touched me. You took my hand and let me hold yours. This is your fault, not mine. /// (A post-TLJ force bond fic)

Written in the Stars by ReyloRobyn2011

First day of posting: 2018-04-24

Ship: Reylo

Rating: E

Total word count: 89,961

Chapters: 42

Summary: He felt an emptiness in his heart where Rey belonged. It left him feeling dark and cold. He wasn’t sure how he was supposed to go on in a galaxy where Rey wasn’t in his arms. /// Kylo supposed they were destined to be on opposite sides of a war. They were destined to be nothing more than enemies. /// Yet he knew, if the time came… he wouldn’t be able to kill Rey. He would happily die by her blade if it meant he didn’t have to live in a galaxy without her presence.

/*\

Fics that scrub The Rise of Skywalker right outta your brain.

and if I live, I want to live for you by LordReborn

First day of posting: 2020-03-04

Ship: Reylo, HanLeia

Rating: M

Total word count: 89,704

Chapters: 12

Summary: Months since Exegol, the sudden stir of their bond brings with it a staggering amount of hope and, after a disheartening amount of research, Rey stumbles upon a possible way to bring Ben back. On the other side of time and space, Ben wakes up to a world he, by all means, shouldn't be alive in anymore. Both are resolved to find a way back to each other. Now if only the Force will stop flinging them around...

Benimina Solo's Late On-Set Force Ability by MissCoppelia

First day of posting: 2021-02-14

Ship: Reylo (fem!Kylo, male!Rey)(it's less weird than it sounds :P)

Rating: E

Total word count: 19,771

Chapters: 7

Summary: Benimina Solo has never, not even once, had an ounce of Force Sensitivity. She's done a great deal to move on with her life after failing out of her uncle's Jedi training school. So when Rey Palpatine comes into her life and suddenly everything changes, she's not a happy camper.

Ben Solo and his Midwife Crisis by Ray_Gosh

First day of posting: 2020-07-22

Ship: Reylo and secondary GingerRose

Rating: M

Total word count: 26,544

Chapters: 11

Summary: Nurse Ben quits his job to become a full time natural childbirth educator and doula. He is empathetic, dependable, calm and professional, that is, until he is hired by a very pregnant and very nervous, single mom Rey, who is a student midwife. He can’t stop thinking about her after their first class, and he knows it’s SO wrong. Until he realizes she’s a surrogate for her best friends, Rose and Armitage Hux. /// Ben becomes her birth doula and then her postpartum doula. Will he manage to stay professional or will he ruin his reputation and career by his inability to remain level headed around her?

come down from your mountain by HalfwayThrough

First day of posting: 2020-02-24

Ship: GingerRose

Rating: E

Total word count: 48,737

Chapters: 19

Summary: A group of rebels took their position, blasters at the ready surrounded a single prisoner. The Resistance wasn’t exactly known for taking prisoners, but they seemed to have made an exception. His black coat was torn at the shoulder and blood dribbled from his pale lips. But it was the red hair, loose from its carefully glued style that made the air in her lungs freeze. The last time she’d seen him she’d been on her knees, hands shackled, with a stormtroopers weapon at her neck.

Darkness, Take My Hand by kathyswizards (counts as post-TLJ too)

First day of posting: 2018-04-03

Ship: Reylo

Rating: M

Total word count: 245,958

Chapters: 65

Summary: If Vice-Admiral Holdo had rammed the Raddus into Snoke’s flagship five minutes sooner, before Rey had a chance to reject Kylo Ren's offer... The Force is determined to make the galaxy whole again, however unlikely the means. Forging a bond between the dark and the light is one thing, but finding a path to trust, balance and a shared future is a lot more difficult. ~~~ OR ~~~ The way TRoS should have gone.

Hiraeth by TheOriginalSuki

First day of posting: 2020-03-02

Ship: Reylo

Rating: M

Total word count: 47,894

Chapters: 18

Summary: "I don't want to use you." "You wouldn't be using me. You'd be letting me love you. Please let me love you." --- Rey uses the World Between Worlds and the Force bond to go back to a time before Kylo Ren, hoping to try and prevent the events leading up to Ben's fall to the Dark Side.

i kill giants by diasterisms

First day of posting: 2019-12-20

Ship: Reylo

Rating: E

Total word count: 84,301 so far

Chapters: 23/35

Summary: In the end, she has to hand it to him— he'd always been an expert in taking her by surprise, and it would appear that he's chosen not to shake the habit even in death."Rey Skywalker?" There's a vaguely sardonic twist to the corner of his mouth. "Does that make you my cousin now?" "It seemed like a fitting tribute," she says in wooden tones. Be it dream or vision, she might as well play along— draw this out until reality comes crashing back. Who knows when he'll come to her again as solid and as vibrant as this? "I see." Suddenly he's leaning into her, their faces so close together. "Tell me," he murmurs, his lips almost brushing against hers, "have you ever heard of the term kissing cousins?" She registers the smell of alcohol on his breath at the same time that his eyes flutter shut and he slumps face-down into her lap, snoring softly. You're alive, is all she can think at first, staring down at his head of lush black hair. Ben Solo is alive. Alive and very, very drunk.

Shattered by rightforlife

First day of posting: 2021-03-28

Ship: Reylo

Rating: E

Total word count: 8,557

Chapters: 1

Summary: The revelation of her heritage doesn’t go over well with the Resistance and Rey is left feeling more alone than ever before. /// Until a concerned hand reaches out to her, and this time - she doesn’t hesitate in taking it. /// Based loosely on that prompt where the hero falls into the villain’s arms after having nowhere else to go.

Star Wars IX: The Fallen Knight by AKyloDarkly83 (ksquared83), KR Krause (ksquared83)

First day of posting: 2018-07-06

Ship: Reylo, but also easier to just post the other relationship tags [[Finn/Rose Tico, BB-8 & Everyone, Bastila Shan/Revan (Star Wars), Kaasha Bateen/Lando Calrissian, Malak Ren/Shira Ren, Kylo Ren/Lucia Bonterri (OC), Hondo Ohnaka & Rey, BB-NX/BB-8 ]] --- this is still Reylo!

Rating: E

Total word count: 226,757

Chapters: 60

Summary: A rebellion reborn. Having escaped the First Order assault on Crait, the brave resistance survivors have established a new hidden base and grown their insurgency against the rising darkness. With the aid of a mysterious source within the First Order itself, the rebellion, led by Poe Dameron and General Leia Organa, have been able to acquire much needed supplies and weaponry from secret First Order depots. Rey of Jakku, continuing to develop her skills as a Jedi despite having no master, struggles to keep secret the existence of the mysterious bond she shares with Supreme Leader Kylo Ren through the Force. Fearing the loss of her friend's trust if the bond is known as well as her conflicted emotions toward him, she holds on to what hope there is that Ben Solo could be turned back to the light and become an ally in their struggle against the First Order. As the rebel attacks against secret military installations continue with the aid of an anonymous source within the First Order, Kylo Ren has been forced to dispatch the Knights of Ren to track down and crush the rebels once and for all.

The Bulge That Separates Us by Celestial_Mess1

First day of posting: 2020-11-14

Ship: GingerRose

Rating: M

Total word count: 16,106

Chapters: 5

Summary: Rose Tico was tired. No, it wasn't due to her job at Snap's Auto-parts shop. It was because of the baby growing inside her. It squirmed, kicked and tired her out on a daily basis. The only thing that made any of this bearable was her aggravating, snobby, hot neighbor, Armitage Hux. He was checking off everything on her ideal man list, too bad he had to speak and ruin the illusion. What's a pregnant, horny girl to do?

the heartbreak prince by diasterisms

First day of posting: 2019-12-14

Ship: Reylo

Rating: E

Total word count: 229,160

Chapters: 48

Summary: Rey notices him the moment she walks into the Great Hall with the rest of the seventh years. In her defense, he's hard to miss.

the kingdom of dirt by juniorstarcatcher

First day of posting: 2020-01-25

Ship: GingerRose

Rating: M

Total word count: 47,468

Chapters: 14/26 (last updated 2021-05-08)

Summary: General Armitage Hux didn’t just want her for one night. He wanted her forever. /// Rose Tico works as a repair woman at a bordello frequented by members of The First Order. But despite the fact that she's never taken a client in her entire life, when General Armitage Hux comes in search of a mistress, she's the only one he wants.

The Patron Saint of Lost Causes by ElfMaidenOfLight

First day of posting: 2019-12-30

Ship: GingerRose, background Reylo and Stormpilot

Rating: E

Total word count: 98,081

Chapters: 17

Summary: She'd been his contact, his handler, and if he had to admit, not much had changed. Except now she was his jailer, his benefactor; despite all his protests and, admittedly, her better judgment. Surviving the Steadfast, Hux's only hope was to barter his First Order knowledge for his life. It's not a trade the Resistance wants to make. He's a killer of almost unimaginable magnitude, and if he'd been a turncoat once, he'd be a turncoat again. Only Rose, who had been coordinating with the spy unaware of his true identity, believes he deserves a second chance, even if Hux himself disagrees. Buried under all the pain she's endured, some at the hands of Hux himself, is her belief that he can help rebuild a galaxy he once tried to slaughter into submission.

/|\

And that's it for now! I could've gone digging for some of the other best TFA fics, but I keep getting some suggestions so I'll likely release another TFA rec list similar to the other recent ones. :)

[samaspic31]

More seriously.

Art is a product of its context and subject to the available technologies at the time of its creation. No piece of art is ever perfect (and lots star wars is far from it, lol) and wanting to go back to make as good as possible is an understandable urge, but on the other hand, we all have to learn to accept that we will never reach perfection and to deal with that frustration. Lucas' constant tampering of the effects with the newest technologies (that were not able to give a result that wouldn't age badly) and erasing the signs betraying that a lot star wars plot is improvised rather than very carefully planned (which doesn't even work because he very clearly only had the vague idea of leia and luke being siblings while writing esb at the earliest, thought he would let live their mother a few years after their birth so leia would have known her before changing his mind writing revenge of the sith for example, and it is my belief he hadn't originally intended to commit to Vader being Luke's father which is why obi wan does nothing but speak borderline lies in the ot and has to explain himself in rotj) shows his inability to accept his own limits and work with his past self’s decisions. I would understand adding scenes he had to cut for theater release or because of fox's executives, I cannot sympathize with him using movies he considered up to his standard to play with his new toys because cgi impresses him more

Besides, the ot and pt have quite a few racist tropes (ewoks treating c3po as a god, tuskens as mindless monsters and mishandling of metaphors for indigenous people in general, jar jar speaking in a caricature of a Caribbean accent, I could go on) and lots of cultural appropriation from leia and padme's hairstyles, clothing design that heavily copies Japanese culture, the whole orientalism of slave leia, to borrowing philosophical concepts off Islam, buddhism and the Sikh religion. And that's not mentionning the sexism of carrie having to forgo underwear for filming (btw did you know she was sent to a "fat farm" to lose 10 pounds or couldn't get the role ? I hate lucas), anyways I could go on about bigotry in star wars in canon and behind the scenes forever but that's not the point. And whenever these issues are brought up, some fans are quick to shut it down because "people didn't know better at the time". But if lucas can spare so much money and energy to go back and correct so many effects and actors that entire scenes look nothing like their original version (see sy snootle's show in Rotj), and new projects recreate constantly OT sets (diplomatic shuttle in rogue one, jabba’s palace for tbobf, etc) and use deepfakes to make characters whose actors cannot play them anymore appear and intervene, it's sending the message that all the rest is his choice to keep intact, that he has no desire to make these parts less awful and he was still proud of it as of 2011

Also pet peeve of mine but if I have to have my star wars movies heavily edited, why isn't the soundtrack modified too to include relevant themes that were not composed yet like the imperial march in a new hope or battle of the heroes on the last Vader-obi wan duel (btw im still mad the kenobi series didn't use it or leia's theme it's such a waste)? Why isn't the awful cgi of AOTC and rots getting fixed too? it sure hurts my eyes more than the few vfx of the ot that didn't age very well

The worst part is definitely that once these edited versions were made that's all Lucasfilm commercialized from that point forward, making the original versions hard to find. My villain origin story.

Only alteration I'm not mad at is tem redubbing the OT boba scenes but that's just me wanting more tem in star wars lol

I hate all of george Lucas' alterations of the original trilogy so much. The cgi and actors. This idea of "updating" the effects (looks weightless and barely like a modern video game, no shade to the vfx artists) and retroactively correcting casting that worked fine, and making these versions the mainly sold ones and easiest to access ? Kill him with fire and give me back my old vfx, commit to the casting, I should be able to easily buy a DVD of what the movie looked like when it came out in theaters actually

[frumfrumfroo]

Just out of curiosity, Who do you think is mainly responsible for the failure of the Sequel trilogy aka episode 9?

It seems like it's probably Bob Iger, because he would have been the one ultimately making the call not to push the release date. If it's true that Rian would have done it if they'd given him enough time and Kennedy wanted that- then you can lay an enormous amount of the blame directly at Iger's feet.

To what extent it was Kennedy's decision to bring in Colin and then Jjerrio, I don't know, but allegedly she was the one who wanted Rian to come back. So immediate responsibility might not have been hers, but she'd still be to blame for creating the situation in the first place.

Shifting away from whomsoever allowed the massive overflowing dumpster full of oily rags to become situated next to the fireworks factory back to the person who okayed soaking rags in oil in the first place, it's the fault of the LF executives for not having a thematic outline and not knowing what they were trying to say before they started. A plot outline wasn't necessary, but understanding how this was going to be part of and reaffirm the existing saga was. Rian pulled their asses out of the fire and created the illusion of competence at LF by making the ST seem like it genuinely wanted to tell a story and TFA wasn't just a soft reboot slash Disneyland Area Tour of ANH in a trenchcoat made of modern blockbuster cliches. He followed up on all the shit TFA threw at the wall like a writer and asked all the questions the LF executives never asked.

No one thought about idealism, redemption, family, compassion, etc. No one thought about the impact of making the only genuine throughline which connects the ST to the OT and PT, the only character the audience will have a preordained investment in, into an antagonist. No one thought about justifying their choice of protagonist. No one thought about the original characters as characters who needed to have arcs and emotions and comprehensible motivations. No one asked 'what did the original ending leave unsaid or unresolved?' 'How can we reiterate the same message but add something that was missing?' 'How are our new characters commenting on this existing world and what is their place in it?' That they didn't know these answers before anyone ever started writing is nothing short of irresponsible and incompetent.

It is absolutely staggering to me that a bunch of professionals didn't see this as a conversation they needed to have. It's the FIRST conversation they should have had.

But as far as tros just being a shitshow of a film without taking into account the garbage script or the fact that it destroyed SW, that's on JJ Abrams. He clearly runs his sets like a summer camp, is incompetent and unprofessional, can't make decisions, and has zero creative vision. Another director would never have been able to make a Terrio Episode IX into a good film, but they could shoot one (1) consistent movie with enough coverage to avoid cannibalising itself to create KEY SHOTS and no need to loop pivotal dialogue a month before the premiere. They could probably avoid the entire plot being leaked months ahead of release and deliver an actually finished film.

Was some of the haphazard production nightmare due to the rush and executive meddling from Disney and not really Abrams fault? Probably! But he's got a fucking track record and I'm super comfortable at this point saying his productions are unprofessional and he's very bad at many important aspects of his job.

[gffa]

Hello there I read a post of your and you mentioned the star wars comics Can you please suggest some good ones to read about the prequels or the original trilogy era? I would be most grateful

Hi!  BOY, I CAN I.  :D PREQUELS COMICS: - Obi-Wan & Anakin by Charles Soule.  This is probably my favorite prequels comic, for both iddy reasons (the art is gorgeous, there are some joyfully extra Jedi shenanigans, Obi-Wan & Anakin’s relationship is darling, etc.), but also because it’s really, really good when you read the whole thing and look at what it’s saying about the plot, the Jedi and their view of their relationship with the Republic, their relationship with Anakin and his relationship with them, and why everyone views things the way they do, right down to Palpatine poisoning everything for everyone. - Age of Republic by Jody Houser.  This is a series of oneshots (don’t let the numbers fool you) for various hero and villain characters and all of them are really good.  My favorite is the Obi-Wan one (obviously) because it’s so good at exploring his relationship with Anakin, but the Padme and Anakin and Maul ones all have really excellent character moments as well. - Star Wars Adventures by various authors.  I enjoy pretty much all of the Adventures comics, no matter what era they’re in!  I don’t remember specifically which numbers the prequels ones are--there aren’t very many, but I’m recommending the whole run because there’s a lot of OT comics in there as well and the ST comics are really, really cute ones.  They’re light-hearted but have some great worldbuilding bits and have some amazing Padme moments especially.  (SWA #12-13 have the Anakin/Padme date episode that’s hilarious + the 2019 Annual has an amazing story about Breha telling baby Leia about her friend Queen Padme Amidala.)  There’s also a story about Mace helping a young Twi’lek girl somewhere in that run that’s WONDERFUL. - Clone Wars Battle Tales by Michael Moreci.  It’s a kids’ series (part of the Adventures line) but it has so many great moments for both the clones and the Jedi.  Both hilarious and with some touching moments (oh my god, Plo & Wolffe’s interactions got me right in the feelings and Obi-Wan is my fave forever, as always) and it’s a nicely done 5 issue mini-series. - Jedi of the Republic - Mace Windu by Matt Owens.  Don’t let the art put you off (it is an acquired taste, if that) because the story itself is really worth digging into, a great look at Mace and the Jedi and their struggle with their role in being warriors in the Clone Wars, as well as their capacity for compassion and care when someone is deeply unfair to the people around them.  It’s an excellent Mace story but also has Kit Fisto being amazing in it, so it’s also worth reading for that. - Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith vol. 2 by Charles Soule.  Set in the immediate aftermath of Revenge of the Sith, this is a phenomenal look at Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader and how they are absolutely the same person.  The bigger arc of this story illustrates all these various Jedi that Anakin meets, showing him paths he could have taken instead of the one he did--he could have went on sabbatical, he could have left the Jedi for a family, he could have found other paths, he could have helped even while falling to the dark side--and he rejects every single one of them because he refuses to believe there were any other options than the one he has.  Add in some incredible worldbuilding and this is the comic for understanding Darth Vader, for me. - Kanan: The Last Padawan by Greg Weisman.  Another must-read, for the stunningly gorgeous art, for the amazing cuteness of baby Jedi, for the incredibleness of everything of Depa Billaba, and for the heartbreak of watching Caleb Dume become Kanan Jarrus after the Jedi Purge.  The worldbuliding is amazing (the look at the Jedi is so satisfying!) and the deeper understanding of Kanan’s origins and heartbreak at watching how much he suffered through all of that, it’s just gorgeously done. ORIGINAL COMICS: - Darth Vader vol. 1 by Kieron Gillen.  It’s best to read this concurrently with the Star Wars ongoing (from 2015 by Jason Aaron) because the first 6+ issues overlap with each other, but after that, read in whatever order you like.  This series is amazing and I would probably say, if you’re going to read one Darth Vader comic, it should be this one (even though the Soule one is my favorite), because Gillen really nails that balance of keeping him something of a mystical figure while also exploring the character.  There are so many absolutely iconic moments from this run that are Must Reads. - Darth Vader vol. 3 by Greg Pak.  While I almost put this in the prequels second, because while it’s set between ANH and ESB there are a lot of flashbacks and aftermath of prequels era stuff.  It’s less than 10 issues into its run yet, but every issue has been grabbing me by the throat and really giving us another entire comic full of gut-punches about what a shit lord Anakin Skywalker chose to be while also breaking our hearts for him. - Star Wars vol. 1 by Jason Aaron.  While the main series has been rebooted and is now being written by Charles Soule, the Jason Aaron one is absolutely worth reading, it’s centered around the time just post-ANH, where Luke and Leia and Han are having adventures and it does the brilliant job of exploring the characters in meaningful ways while working around the framework of the original movies and adding onto them to make them even better, imo.  Plus, there are some Obi-Wan issues in there that are absolute heartbreakers. - Star Wars vol. 2 by Charles Soule.  We’re only on the second arc at this point, but the first arc with Luke recently wrapped up and it was really amazing, Soule is really good at drawing connections between the character arcs of both the PT and the OT,  ones that may not always occur to me on the first read, but once I go back, it really feels it’s deliberate.  Luke struggling with the dark side in the aftermath of ESB and the revelations there and how he deals with it?  Incredible. - As mentioned above, the Star Wars Adventures comics have a lot of OT ones (anything with Leia tends to be my favorite) and they might be aimed at a younger audience, but they are often gorgeously drawn and have either really iconic moments or are just really feel-good reads. - Shattered Empire is a four-issue mini-series that’s basically the aftermath of ROTJ and setting up a lot of stuff that’ll happen in the years between the OT and the ST.  The art is absolutely stunning, you will fall in love with Poe Dameron’s mother, and there’s some great nods to what the original trio was up to.  It’s great for connective tissue, but also I just genuinely enjoyed it for itself. HONORABLE MENTIONS: - It’s been awhile since I read either of the Maul comics (the one by Cullen Bunn I remember really enjoying, and I haven’t read Son of Dathomir by Jeremy Barlow yet) but they’re worth picking up, if you’re enjoying SW comics. - The Adventures comics had a Tales from Vader’s Castle + Return to Vader’s Castle series released near Halloween for some cutely spooky stories that I really loved, if you like the Adventures comics.  There’s a hilarious one with Dracula!Dooku references as a nod to Christopher Lee’s portrayal of the character that absolutely delighted me. - If you enjoy her introduction in Darth Vader vol. 1, the Doctor Aphra comics are excellent reads as well. I also loved the Princess Leia mini-series by Mark Waid