#you believed everything Aaravos said at face value

[lawchan89]

A lot of you just instantly forgot that Aaravos is a master manipulator and blindly believe that he told Claudia the whole truth and nothing but the truth huh

[beautifulterriblequeen]

Hello I really loved your big long response to someone asking about your thoughts on Viren and I hope you don't mind me throwing some thoughts your way that it stirred up in me. All your talk about how he doesn't love himself, is constantly seeking to be validated, be useful, and can't see anything past if something is useful or not got me thinking... Is this why he seemed to trust Aaravos so easily once Aaravos was actually able to start Talking to him? Seriously, Aaravos starts talking to (1/2

him and his first words are "how may I serve you", that has GOT to be an ego boost to him with his fragile values towards himself. I haven't rewatched the season in a bit so forgive me if I get details wrong, but Aaravos is a force that seems to really grab onto Viren’s weakest points (his lack of self love and desire to be useful/powerful) and just use them to Aara's full advantage. Sorry I want to say so much more but the dang word limit on asks is annoying as heck. Just food for thought! (2/2)

Hi yes you want to talk more about Viren and Aaravos? Well, my good anon, I am very here for that conversation. 

I think you’re touching on the critical nugget of Viren and Aaravos’s relationship right here: 

he seemed to trust Aaravos so easily once Aaravos was actually able to start Talking to him

“Seemed” to trust him. Viren is a genius pragmatist. He craves what Aaravos says he’s offering--and what Aaravos himself represents--so badly he can taste it. But he reins himself in and take precautions. He literally walks away from the sparkliest elf on the planet because he wants to do things his own way if he can, and he only comes back when he’s failed to be useful by uniting the Pentarchy. Viren gets really thirsty for power, but only if he’s the one controlling it.

Viren saw this mirror in the Dragon King’s lair, and he recognized it as a magical artifact. He absolutely looted that place for everything magical he could carry, because, as I mentioned before, Viren just wants to be useful, and power lets people be useful, so he collects useful things. He’s been said to collect Primal Stones. His creepy dungeon lab is nothing but useful magical items that he may one day need. 

Aaravos’s mirror began as nothing more than another stolen relic from a fallen king--but that made it very important. Did the King of the Dragons use this mirror to hold onto his power? To gain more power? To punish? To extend his reach? Viren doesn’t care what the mirror can do. It’s enough for him that Thunder seemed to have found it useful. To Viren, the mirror is a talisman of Thunder’s power. But he still needs to figure out how to use the thing to feel better about himself.

After Thunder killed three human queens in the span of five minutes, Viren is Very Motivated Indeed to making sure he and his allies are never handed such a crushing blow ever again. One way to do that is to kill Thunder--directly eliminating the threat. Another is to take all of Thunder’s magical stuff and figure out how to use it--indirectly preventing future threats. (Another is to grab his egg while no one’s looking, hatch it, and train it to fight on your side, all of which Viren was absolutely trying to do, because pragmatism)

Viren may or may not have anticipated that there was a person on the other side of the mirror before he turned it on. However, Viren gets people to do what he wants (almost) all the time. It’s one thing to find a way through the mirror and spend ages studying all those books in the library. It’s another entirely to find someone familiar with their contents, actively engaged in research, and claiming to be interested in a service role. He absolutely does not trust Aaravos, but he wants what Aaravos is offering so badly that he keeps ooching closer to him (metaphorically) until he’s perched on Aaravos’s finger like a tired bird, exhausted and needy but ready to fly if he must.

Viren needs Aaravos (or so he believes). But he does not trust Aaravos. Not yet, anyway. They’re both using each other for their own ends, but only one of them is foolish enough to say so out loud (Viren I mean Viren). Every step of their relationship is unbalanced, but it shifts in circles as a kind of drunken dance. Well, VIren shifts around Aaravos. Aaravos is standing perfectly poised in the middle, highly entertained at Viren’s antics as he reels around him. Run away, come back, beg, demand, threaten, comply, growl, smirk. Slowly, slowly, Aaravos is drawing him closer to the center, to his point of balance, instead of allowing Viren to step back and find his own balance. Aaravos wants Viren in his arms as a willing dance partner, but he’s got to teach Viren the steps first. Luckily, Aaravos is endlessly patient and Viren is a motivated learner. 

It’s an entertaining dance, but it’s still a toxic one. There is no trust in their relationship at all. But that could change--Viren is only human, after all. I think S3 may very well give us a moment where Viren finally breaks. Where we may get a glimpse of his backstory, his hurts, his deepest motivations, and where Aaravos will get to choose whether to crush him or protect him. I think Aaravos will choose to protect Viren, and Viren will finally, truly trust Aaravos, as he’s never trusted anyone in his life. Not even Harrow--Viren’s first powerful friend can’t hold a candle to the sparkly power that Aaravos wields.

But Aaravos will have to step up beyond being the most impressive person Viren have ever met. He’ll have to truly show compassion for Viren in a weak moment, or Viren won’t understand the lesson. Aaravos can probably level entire armies, sure. But make him soft, make him whisper words of worth in a broken mage’s ear, make him truly believe them, without smirks or teases, and Viren will fall utterly in love. Mostly with Aaravos, but also with himself.

TDP, managing this “two negatives make a positive” story arc would blow my mind. In my other ask answer, I mentioned not being sure if Viren would choose to be redeemed in his character arc. I think the only person who could convince him to do it would be Aaravos. And only once he trusts the Star Touch with his life and soul.

Just look at this totally trustworthy face, Viren. You know you want to.

[exotic-panda]

While I do like Viren, he is still abusive. Just cause you like a character or they have one good moment doesn't mean they're not a shitty person. Abusive parents can have a favorite child. This is very common. My sister was abused but I wasn't because I was favorited, idk why, but it was sad to see her facing it while I wasn't. It was hard for me to believe it happened since I was never mistreated, but that's cause abusive parents can be incredible deceptive. Sometimes they might not like a quality of one child or find them weak enough to dump their frustrations on them. This isn't acceptable even if they adore the other child.

Viren at some point did seem to care for both of his children, but overtime he grew to care for Claudia more because she was basically his successor. Soren wasn't and didn't come off as bright, which disappointed Viren. After he too the egg he grew more paranoid about a war, thus his relationship with everyone was affected. He and harrow never really got friendly anymore, he feels more cold toward his children, and he was even willing to kill the kids of his best friend. Something is definitely off.

But in s3 we see another bad side to viren. He is incredibly condescending and values intelligence over everything. That's why for a moment he favored Kasif over Soren, since he was the "smarter" version of him. When Soren exposed Viren he gaslit his to gain CLAUDIA'S favor, not both his children. He even told Claudia to let Soren die if it meant saving the egg.

I can't convince me that's not fucked up nor him not mistreating Soren.

Yes, Viren adores Claudia and even argues with aaravos (the ONE time he disagrees with the elf), but it is evident he doesn't value Soren as much and even mistreat him. If Soren admits his father isn't a good father, then that's a done deal.

Like I said, a parent treating one child nice is still abusive if they mistreat the other. He shows no regret nor worry about his son's possible death or injury, but Claudia? He argued with his sugar daddy to leave her alone.

I forgot this scene existed and now I need several moments to recover, this is completely unprompted, how can people say Viren abuses his children...