#yes it's still me rewatching s3 and thinking about the implications of a quote (not meant for them) but

[l0veisntbrains]

I'd be thinking about how I want to spend my last night on earth. 3x13 | 7x22

[rupertgayesarchive]

“i think sam would still have his visions, like you said, and then maybe those lead him to dean or to a case that dean is also on? or if angels are more well-known later on, he tracks one down, maybe cas, maybe not (if it's NOT and it's one that works on raphael's side. ohoho. the possibilities...)” YOU MADE ME SO ILL WITH THIS. this is the same anon as before I’m sorry for being like this. i don’t have a google doc open but you are going to convince me to do that unironically.

I think you might be right about the show being different completely if Sam was gone for years and the above quote made me so insane okay hear me out. I’m the gif of the man wildly gesturing at an investigative board right now. okay so in canon the apocalypse starts gearing up. well I mean that starts pre canon but in the context of the show I’d say around season 2 or maybe even 3? I think a lot of dean development regarding Sam happens in this seasons also. i think Gabriel could disappear Sam from THEN but it would be a little different cuz Sam at this point wouldn’t have a ‘normal’ life and is aware of the demon blood and feels inherently monstrous moreso than before so. maybe Gabriel would just stick him in a time loop because that’s just an easy way to keep him contained, but also Gabriel only did his other spike traps to teach the winchesters a lesson he felt would help work in his interest of stoping the apocalypse. and if sam was in a time loop like we saw he would try and get out of it which would mean more maintenance by Gabriel who I assume wants an unalarmed unaware Sam. hm. I think the funnest option here would literally just be he wipes Sam’s memory? like he returns Sam to factory settings and sticks him in one of his pocket dimensions. isont think HED put Sam back Stanford because Sam’s motivations have moved past compulsively wanting a normal life.. OKAY WAIT I just rewatched (sorry in advance I didn’t choose to be like this) s9 and the angel possessing Sam kept Sam locked in his mind by making him think he was on a hunt with dean. obviously Gabriel couldn’t do this cuz he’s not possessing Sam but he would throw Sam in a mundane pocket dimension for however long it takes to stop the apocalypse. so, maybe forever.

genuinely think it’d be so fun if Gabriel died or. wait if this is s6 cas could find him to ask for help against Raphael. i mean working under my previous assumption of Gabriel didn’t stop the apocalypse but just prolonged it leading to a s6 angel war type thing the specifics aren’t important I just want Cas to have some degree of girlboss lying and betraying. i think dean would assume Sam fucking died if he just vanished in s3 which is evil but I think it’d be fun that Sam comes back and dean doesn’t have the same degree or expectation of codepency anymore. like obviously not completely but in canon he did move on somewhat with Lisa and in this scenario it would be more healthy for dean I think because he’s not processing his grief out of obligation. I think Sam would come back and dean would revert immediately back to horribly adjusted before like eventually evening out.

i think it would be fun if Gabriel accidentally got caught up in whatever the fuck cas and or dean is doing which distracts him and Sam figures out what is happening. also it would be sooo fun to me if Sam literally just didn’t know several however many years had passed at this point. like he thinks it’s been a week and HE has discovered angels and is sorely disappointed he’s ready to be like DEAN the lore was wrong angels are evil. all this because... I think it’s fun but also because I think all of them taking pains to hide cas being an angel is hilarious and compelling. dean would probably like.. kind of encouragement through the agreement that angels are dicks after sam is caught up, AND LIKE YOU SAID. Sam should track down an angel who recognizes him and is on Raphael’s side and Sam wants information and is hostile but the angel recognizes him and . wait oh my god angel ruby. not.. not exactly like ruby but the archetype remains I think the angel would reluctantly convince Sam they could be useful and then just subtly manipulate Sam against Cas. like.. unwitting double agent is sooo fun to me. i don’t think the angel would mention cas by name immediately especially if Sam doesn’t know Cas is an angel, mostly because i want them to have the incredibly fun dynamic at first of Sam being just completely confused while Cas is amicable. but I do want Sam to be hostile to Cas sometime because that’s great, and additionally because it’s fun if whatever angel talking with Sam drops progressively larger implications about Cas which Sam just completely buys initially. but then he decides to start like.. talking with dean or bobby or whoever’s around. maybe even Cas. and realizing he’s being played on his own. mostly because I like characters having to admit to their faults but also because I think them deciding to go with the extremely ill advised plan of a triple cross is hilarious.

sorry this is so long and just an excuse for me wanting Sam to have to meet a somewhat less horribly adjusted dean who has like. actual friends and problems not intertwined directly with sam u know?

SORRY i completely lost track of stuff so I'm answering this Now:

anon please open a google doc this could be a really cool idea! i think i only have one series rewrite in me, hfym is IT you know? Anyway yes the idea of Gabe putting Sam in a pocket dimension or a time loop makes ME insane, I remember reading a really fucked up mystery spot au where Gabe accidentally forgot how long he left Sam in that loop and Sam like, lost it? So he shows up after 50,000 Tuesdays have passed or something insane like that. Anyhow I don't think it'd be as stagnant as that but if Sam did end up slowly realizing he was in like, some unreal environment? Maybe either his powers keep breaking through to show him events that he feel should be happening but they aren't? Like a vision about Jenny and her family in the Home ep in s1 but he can't actually get to his childhood home or a different family is in his childhood home? Weird shit like that. And maybe he ends up summoning or finding Gabriel to figure out what the FUCK is happening or another creature tunes into him if Gabriel isn't actively watching him.

Alternatively if you wanted to keep Sam around maybe like, he 'dies' in all hell breaks loose but when Dean sells his soul and Sam comes back Gabe snatches him up? So Dean thinks it was like, a trick or s/t... he tries to find Sam or get his soul back, ends up going to hell anyway, Cas saves him, Sam can't come to the phone rn so the apocalypse doesn't happen as it should... idk idk these are random ideas it's very hot here i can't think.

I also love the idea of another angel helping Sam and convincing him that Cas is the bad evil one that was leading Dean astray while Sam was out of commission that'd be SO fun. And yeah idk if the purgatory/souls thing would happen but angelic civil war is occurring, maybe said angel tries to kill Dean as a way to stop Cas and that's when Sam is like 'oh okay Cas is actually cool'. Maybe... a little pieta? as a treat? Cas cradling Dean's broken body openly crying over him (either dead or just gravely injured?) hm. love that. Sam just sees that sorta thing and is like 'Dean's gay?? is it gay if it's an angel?? Oh fuck I messed up huh' in that order lmao.

[ettadunham]

A Buffy rewatch 2x15 Phases

aka male aggression and the Buffy feminism

Welcome to this dailyish text post series where I will rewatch an episode of Buffy and point out / hyperfocus on one detail in it in 10-3k words. Or maybe go through each and every random scene I choose. Rules are fake.

And today’s episode is one that I enjoy and love immensely, but it’s also the perfect opportunity to talk about the dreaded subject:

Why does Buffy’s feminism feel dated?

But before that, it’s time for everyone’s* (*my) favorite segment - Buffy/Willow out of context.

Buffy:  Meow! Willow:  Really? Thanks. I've never gotten a 'meow' before.

Even Larry’s being gross about wanting ‘some of that Buffy/Willow action’... And like... I know that you’re going through stuff my dude, but still., don’t ruin this for the rest of us.

Willow is also complaining about guys and dudes in general at least three different times in this episode. (Sometimes to Buffy, but sometimes to Cordelia??? I’m definitely sleeping on that ship.) And I’m just sitting here being like... aw, honey... you really don’t need them... trust me.

Anyhow, we could be sitting here dissecting all that, but I set out with a different goal today, and I’m trying to cut it short, so let’s talk.

Buffy feminism.

At this point anyone in and out of the fandom is familiar with the debate of how Buffy’s - and in turn, Whedon’s - feminism has aged, and that while it had a huge impact on its time and laid the groundwork for today’s popculture scene, we’ve evolved since then.

And I don’t think many would negate a lot of that. The Buffy feminism certainly lacks intersectionality and works with a lot of tropes and archetypes that has its fair share of negative elements and implications. And Whedon’s later work have memorably been taken to court by fandom for such cases.

So the question that I ended up on some time ago was a natural result of that trail of thought.

Was Buffy ever intended to be feminist?

Spoiler alert: the answer is both yes and no. It’s Schroedinger’s feminism.

But first, I want to make it clear that I don’t intend to argue that Buffy isn’t feminist, or didn’t influence our culture massively in that direction. In the 90s, a show with a female lead was still the outlier, and the fact that it gained such a universal following is somewhat mind-blowing. Especially if you consider the grudge our culture holds against teenage girls, even today.

On top of that, Buffy’s character concept goes against the idea of the Strong Female Character (often known as Female Side Character With Some Masculine Traits To Show That She’s Not Like Other Girls Who Can Kind Of Hold Her Own Next To Our Male Lead But He’s Still Better At Things Of Course), by being both immensely powerful and unabashedly teen girly. And then only becoming more complex and memorable as the seasons went on.

Not to mention the fact that the show also had an even ratio of female:male co-stars for most of its run. Meaning that there were plenty of other female characters to develop beside the titular lead, making it a largely female-driven series in general.

As a result of all that, it’s no wonder that Whedon gained a reputation as a staunch feminist - and again, he was a trailblazer when it came to female-led television shows... But I think conflating his ideals with the show’s themes is where we fell into a pitfall.

People complaining about diversity in media often cite ‘agendas’ or ‘pandering’. Which is an immensely simplified (and stupid) way to look at things that is meant to paint going against the norms in a negative way. See, if the creators decide to include characters of different backgrounds because it’s important to them, or because they want to talk about their own experiences, then they have an ‘agenda’. The agenda being using art to talk about things they find important, I guess...

And then there’s this idea that studios / companies / creators just want to please an under-served audience, and profit out of their enthusiasm when they make such media. In contrast to pleasing the audience of the status quo 90% of the time otherwise. I guess.

I’m bringing this all up because the argument that a lot of these people bring up is that representation and diversity is okay if there’s a “reason” for it. Which... yeah, we already covered why I think this line of thinking is so incredibly flawed, but on the other hand... I think Buffy actually satisfies that criteria.

Ideas such as gender roles are baked into show’s concept. Buffy is literally fighting the patriarchy and rape culture (among other things), so it only makes sense that she’s a girl. Meanwhile the character who will end up being gay is the one who struggles the most with their identity. These things are literally building into the bigger picture that the show’s attempting to make.

Now, I will say this though - differentiating and drawing the lines between these things (sincere desire for representation vs. financial strategy vs. exploring themes) is impossible. Everything can be a little bit of each or something else entirely. That’s also why debating intent to undermine representation is such a cheap transparent move.

Nevertheless, I have decided to approach Buffy’s feminism and many of its other themes from the angle of thematic intent. And this episode is a prime example of how the heightened reality of toxic masculinity and its deconstruction look like on the show.

Phases is very unsubtle when stating its thesis. All men are beasts (a reoccurring theme for sure). And for that we have three male characters to examine: Oz, Larry and Cain. (And to a lesser extent Xander and Giles)

Cain is pretty much the least complex of all. He’s a misogynistic douchebag who constantly berates Buffy for “being a girl”, while also hunting essentially human beings for money. He’s completely one-dimensional and irredeemable, and the only thing he’s good for is so Buffy could destroy his gun and tell him to get the hell out of town.

I suppose he’s also there to contrast Giles, but there’s not much there to talk about. Giles respects and supports Buffy, I guess.

Now, Larry and Oz - that’s a more interesting contrast.

Larry was previously introduced as Xander’s bully, but this episode goes above and beyond establishing him as an all around creep. He makes gross comments at all the girls and literally gropes Buffy, and it all culminates in the Scoobies deducting that he must be the werewolf for being so aggressive and douchey.

And then it turns out that... no, he’s just gay. Which, like... the Gay Bully is certainly a trope that’s probably died out at this point, but this does make sense in the context of this episode and the show’s tendency to deconstruct. The idea that performative aggression like Larry’s can actually be a sign of an unresolved conflict with ourselves. And once that’s resolved, we can find a way to live without that facade and be our more authentic self.

Which is an interesting way to contrast him with Oz, as he appears to be the sweetest, chillest guy in the whole Sunnydale area. He literally tucks the tag on Willow’s shirt back like??? Too good for this world.

But then it turns out that he’ll now also become a werewolf 3 days out of a month, a creature of pure instinct and aggression. And given how reserved Oz is in his day-to-day life, that’s an interesting dichotomy. Is that supposed to represent him getting his rage on and finally letting loose of his emotions, or does it suggest a more aggressive inner layer of his character in general?

(Future knowledge mostly points towards the former, but I feel like it’d be interesting to talk about Oz from the latter perspective.)

It’s also an interesting tidbit how the episode mentions that the werewolf could be female, but then continues to refer to them as a ‘he’ anyway. It’s as if the episode is self-aware of its own theme.

...But then we get a lycanthropy- period cycle parallel made in the end anyway, when Willow’s like ‘well, I’m not much fun to be around 3 days-a-month either’. So there’s that.

Then there’s Xander. I’ve recently heard about an alleged quote where Whedon apparently said that they considered writing either Willow or Xander as gay at some point. And that was certainly in my head during Larry’s coming out scene, which makes Xander’s intense no-homo reaction much more layered. He’s essentially Larry in that scenario, aggressively trying to ignore his own inner conflict.

...Which also made me think of another coming out scene on the show and Buffy’s initial, if brief reaction to it.

Looking at Xander’s character from this angle also puts his obsession with his masculinity into perspective. Although his character arc, especially given the show’s themes about gender roles, remains interesting either way.

Oh yeah, and he’s super jealous about Willow and Oz. We’ll definitely get back to that in S3.

Buffy’s comment about Oz being the loyal type meanwhile is S4 material.

Onwards!