#yes i'm talking about the oceangate thing

[dimonds456]

guys.

there are no "good guys" and "bad guys" in real life. with a scarce few historical exceptions, no one is purely a monster because why the hell not.

every conflict has grey area. every morally "correct" choice has nuance.

we like to pretend that things are black and white since it makes things easier in our own heads to get to a good conclusion, but that's all it is; an evolutionary shortcut our brains like to take. humans are naturally rigged to be "us" and "them" since that's what allowed us to survive for so long (and for religious people who don't believe in evolutionism, it's the same with you; your religion has "good and evil" which results in that same "us vs them" attitude as the rest of us).

in real life, it's not that simple. all "good" choices have negative consequences, even if they're unforeseen or small. "bad" actions may ultimately have positives or good intentions behind them.

us vs them leads to hatred in the end. hatred of fellow man.

see the nuance.

[hasufin]

Skill issue

So, this is a take which I know a lot of people will hate.

It's not enough to be right, you also have to be able to convince people you're right

I got to thinking about this with the anniversary of the OceanGate tragedy. I've seen all these documentaries with various engineering types giving themselves strain injuries from patting themselves on the back about being Right that the Titan wasn't safe.

And exactly zero introspection about how being right did not prevent the disaster.

And look, Stockton Rush was arrogant. Well, okay, we call him "arrogant" because he was extremely confident and wrong. If he'd been extremely confident and right he would have been "determined".

But watching the videos with him, talking about how he'd been told his plan was dangerous... and I get it. He'd been told that his ideas wouldn't work, yes - in the most condescending, uncommunicative, dismissive way possible. He'd been told that his new idea was different from what works so it's Bad and Wrong. He felt that he wasn't being listened to, that all the testing they suggested was just meant to put more hurdles in place to keep him from doing something different, and Fuck That Noise.

And, again, he was wrong. But I understand why he chose to ignore the people who are congratulating themselves for being right. Because, let's be honest here.

First, engineers can be terrifyingly conservative. They can be absolutely phobic about trying new things, because the old ways work and anything else, they're Just Not Sure. You don't build a bridge - or a submersible - on Just Not Sure.

Second, engineers are absolutely terrible at communication. Just, the worst. They can be rude, dismissive, condescending, and if they've categorized you in their head as not being Also An Engineer, they just won't listen to you.

This is not a formula to successfully communicate things. Right now there's all this talk, and effort towards, closing regulatory loopholes. Which probably ought to happen, yes, but you can't make regulation tight enough, ever. He'd have tried to find a way around those.

What would have worked, is if someone had actually convinced him to do the necessary tests. That the risks were real. And maybe that wasn't possible - maybe he was just that stubborn. But damn, someone should be asking "What if I had explained it better?" and not merely "What if he'd listened to me?"

And I'm sorry to say, this is true about a LOT of things.

You can be right as much as you want. You can be objectively, provably right. But the human is a social animal, and communication is probably the most important skill there is.

[dmitri-smerdyakov]

I know one of your special interests is the Titanic, so have you heard about that submarine?!?

Hi, anon. Yes, I know about the submarine - I haven't been on this blog since last weekend but I posted about it on Monday (I think) when the news first broke on my other blog @alwaysahiccupandastrid (that blog is the one I'm logged into on my phone whereas this one is the one I'm logged into on my iPod and laptop). Obviously since then the news has been a huge deal, it's been all over the news, so it's been pretty strange to log onto social media and see "titanic" trending so much.

I want to be clear that I don't wish death on anyone, I truly don't, and also that two of the people who were on that submarine actually lived a 15 minute walk from me, and I only found out because it was posted on facebook on my village's community group/page - they were the father and son, Shahzada and Suleman Dawood, who were onboard. All of this said, I'm sorry but it's really hard to sympathise with billionaires who were basically trespassing on what is a grave-site for 1500 people. If they had been researchers then I might hold a little bit more sympathy, but these people...with the exception of the 19 year old who apparently only went because of his father because it was Father's Day last weekend, I struggle to understand why those billionaires were going down there.

Here's the thing: as you said, the Titanic is one of my special interests - I am literally obsessive about not only the film made by James Cameron but also the ship itself, the history behind it, the stories of the people who were onboard etc. In fact, the reason I love the film as much as I do is because James Cameron had an obsession with the wreck too and went out of his way to be as truthful to the tragedy as possible - he even went down to the wreck for hours and hours recording footage, and even after the film came out he's continued to dive not only down to the wreck but also even further down into the ocean (I will talk about him and his dives in a moment).

All of the above in mind, would I want to go down to the wreck myself? Probably not.

A part of me would in fact want to do it because of my special interest, to see that once beautiful and magnificent ship in person, while being respectful as possible and taking the time to remember the people who suffered - but the other part of me would not because firstly, as I've said, it's where 1500 people died and trespassing on the graves of 1500 people just seems incredibly fucked to me. It's not a tourist attraction, for fuck sake, it's the site of a horrible tragedy. It's also important to note that because of all of the deep sea dives down there, because people keep disturbing the wreck, it's making the ship start to disappear - yes, part of this is due to it being 111 years since it sank, but submarines constantly disturbing it are not helping preserve it quite frankly. The man who discovered the wreck, Robert Ballard, has even said that he wished he hadn't told people he'd discovered it because of the way people have desecrated it. (side note: I borrowed his book on the Titanic from my local library in February and only gave it back last weekend because I ran out of renewals)

All of that aside, however, serious questions need to be asked about that submersible because the design of it was clearly not appropriate for that dive, and it's clear the people who made it wanted to cut corners and save money when they created it. We've all seen the memes about the fact it was being steered by a remote control you can literally buy on Amazon (the one that looks like a video game controller), and the fact that the submersible was so small it would have been like being shoved into a Pringles can. While I find the memes insensitive, it can't be denied that OceanGate have a LOT to answer for when it comes to that submersible and the design of it.

As for James Cameron, before anyone starts asking why I'm not criticizing him, the thing is that he went down to the wreckage on an actual submarine with an actual crew who do this for a living - these people were on a submersible, not a submarine. He's also made 33 dives, not just to the Titanic but also to the Mariana Trench and other deep parts of the ocean; he also designed a 24-foot submersible called the Deepsea Challenger, which took 10 years to build at a cost of $10 million, and is made of principally from syntactic foam, a high-strength, low-weight material which enables it to withstand the huge pressure exerted on it by the ocean. He has literally done his research of the ocean, his research of submarines and submersibles, and it's very clear he holds respect for not only the Titanic but also for the ocean as well. He did an interview recently about the Titan submersible, criticizing the choice of carbon-fibre composite construction of the pressure vessel, saying that it has "no strength in compression" when subject to immense pressures at depth; he also criticized Stockton Rush, the chief executor and co-founder of OceanGate who was on the submersible, and Rush's real-time monitoring of the submarine's hull as an inadequate solution that would do little to prevent an implosion.

To sum it up, while I'm personally not celebrating anyone's death in this situation and I think the memes aren't strictly appropriate, I don't feel a lot of sympathy for them - for their families who have been left behind, maybe, but it's difficult to find sympathy for a group of billionaires fucking around and going to the wreck for...for what? Shits and giggles? Because they could? As Jeff Goldblum's character said in Jurassic Park, "your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should" - and that's exactly what I feel about these people and a lot of billionaires, quite frankly, that just because they have money to do shit like this, it doesn't mean they should. I especially can't find a lot of sympathy for the co-founder who was on that submersible because, quite frankly, if he and his company hadn't been so tight-fisted and cheap when making their submersible, this might not have happened.

As a side note, I've seen people asking the authorities about recovering the bodies, and I don't think people are understanding that there are no bodies to recover, no remains, not even a single bone - there's quite literally nothing left of those people anymore. The submersible imploded, and the people inside would have literally been turned to mist at that pressure, like they would have literally disintegrated. I hope that the families of the people on that submersible can find some comfort, if nothing else, in knowing that the death of their loved ones was probably quick, that they didn't suffer - it's likely they didn't even know what was happening because of how quick the implosion would have been.

[clorofolle]

I'm seeing so much oceangate stuff on my dash. I can understand why the media got obsessed with this story, but not why everyone on tumblr did. I'm seeing a lot of posts about the 19 yrs old for example - and yeah, of course I'm sorry for the kid. It sucks. And I get the compassion fatigue. I get not being able to be empathetic and grieve and be mad all day for every single disaster that happens. But I feel like the kind of things you choose to pay more attention to, and why you choose them, should be examined more carefully.

Yes, that kid was 19 and scared shitless of the trip, and it sucks he had to die. But... this was one person, who took a bad decision. You remember the boat full of migrants that capsized off the coats of Greece? There were... hundreds of people there, many of them children. And they were also really scared, and died an horrific death. That's without even taking into account the kind of life they had to endure before, if they thought this was a chance worth taking for something better.

Please, do reflect on what kind of tragedies you see talked about more often. And ask yourself why that happens. I tried giving myself answers - I'm still not sure what's the right one. Is it because tumblr is quite americanocentric, and usually uninterested with events happening in other parts of the word? Is it simply because those were rich people who died, and thus they got more coverage, and people tend to only comment whatever headlines they see that are bigger? Or is it some kind of almost on-purpose turning away from actual, preventable tragedies, ones that are symptomatic of bigger than life societal issues - and instead choosing to focus on what amounts to "rich people drama"? Because, let's be honest: 750 migrants left to die on a boat is just heart wrenching, and makes us feel hopeless and powerless. But four millionares dead for their own stupidity? That stops being a simple tragedy, and starts being entertainment.

If you read this post - if nothing else, I hope it could've helped you reflect on why you engage with the sort of news that you do, and if there's any news that you tend to ignore on purpose instead. I know I do. I'm trying to change.

[a-student-out-of-time]

Oh yeah. The whole titanic sub incident. It's actually really tragic those 5 guys died because the guy who orchestrated it decided to Penny pinch on the sub. It's even more tragic that people are cracking jokes about their deaths. Like I'm all in for dark humor, but there's a thing in comedy called "timing". And making fun of 5 people who aren't even evil the moment after they died is pretty fucked up.

//I don't mean to be contrarian because of my own hatred of billionaires, nor do I like bringing current events onto the blog if I can help it, but I'll say a few things about this:

The reason people are making jokes is because this situation was completely avoidable. The guy in charge was a billionaire who built his own submarine that violated basically every safety standard imaginable, because he thought safety regulations were a waste of time and made things less fun. His company, Ocenagate, has made multiple submarines like this, which brings me to my next point:

The Titan submarine they used was basically a coffin already. It was so small that you couldn't even stand up inside of it, the doors were impossible to open from the inside, and it was decided it would be cool to pilot the thing using a goddamn gaming controller. Even ignoring that, actual experts pointed out that there was no sufficient stress-testing for the vessel going down beyond 1 km, far past the point where the Titanic sank. It didn't even have a warning beacon.

The billionaire asshole who built the thing actively lied about both the Titan's integrity and where he got the materials to make it. Companies like Boeing had to repeatedly deny that they ever worked with Oceangate. There were problems reported with the thing even as far back as 2020, yet they were all ignored or downplayed.

Even after losing radio contact with the surface team multiple times, they still kept going.

The men involved had massive amounts of disposable income, and instead of helping people who actually need it, they waste it on self-indulgent activities like this. Jeff Bezos going to space while his employees die in shittily-made warehouses during a tornado is another such example.

The news media was glad to talk about how much of a tragedy this was, but completely ignored the far more costly and tragic sinking of a ship in the Aegean carrying a group of Pakistan refugees. I didn't even hear about it until after the news of the implosion.

//I don't celebrate their deaths, but I only feel bad for the kid onboard. One guy dragged his 16-year-old son down there, despite his son protesting that he didn't want to go, so they could spend time together. He didn't even want to be a part of this mess.

//In short, literally everything about this situation was completely avoidable, and yet it happened because the people involved were grotesquely arrogant. They spent thousands that could've been put to better use, used a vessel that was not properly built or tested, and ignored all the warning signs on their way down.

//Is it a tragedy? Yes. Did they still earn their Darwin Awards? Also yes.

[pseudolife-archived3]

Well, this is it; The last Friday in 2023. The next time I come to you will be in a whole new year!! I think I can speak for everyone when I say that this year had a whole lot of downs and some very surprising ups. But, as a whole, we're all thankful to see 2023 walking away. You did it, though! You're so very close to making it one full trip around the sun. And I want to say this; However you chose to survive, I am SO very proud of you. And you should celebrate that fact. Things are quickly rolling to an end with a new beginning on the horizon with opportunities and joy coming (And yes, some frowns as well). Thank you for allowing me to share this year with you in a small way. Whether you've been here from the very beginning, or only a few days; Thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing your time with me. I can't wait to see you in 2024! I'm cheering you on! -- 💜💜 Victoria

“Life is about change, sometimes it’s painful, sometimes it’s beautiful, but most of the time it’s both.” —Kristin Kreuk

Well this is it, the final day of 2023 and I just want to talk about how fantastic a person you are. Your card is permanently on my fridge, like that bracelet is permanently on my wrist. uwu

But on a serious note - 2023 sucked, I think we can all agree on that. however YOU were a highlight for me. Whether we were conspiracy theory'ing over a fucking shitty submarine, or sighing over that weird ass cosplayer, it was an amazing time and I love, love, love you. I can't wait to see what shit we get to gossip over next year.

Here's to another year of our friendship, another year of you being the sweetest person I know, and another year of some of the weirdest.. I dont know, wharever the fuck that Oceangate saga was! 💕💕

[55ludovicoplace]

Several of these are just outright not true

To the best of my knowledge Stockton Rush never called the Titan indestructible and this is probably a misattribution of Doug Virnig, a subcontractor who worked on Titan, referring to the titanium dome lid of the sub as indestructible. This quote is actually from after the sub vanished as well.

The 77-year-old submariner who has been on repeated trips to the Titanic is their "content expert", Paul-Henri Nargeolet. The CEO, Stockton Rush, is the one piloting, and he's 61 years old.

The Parasite in Chief and Dawood weren't just friends, they were business partners. This did result in the incredibly hilarious public statement made by the King of England that stressed his concern about getting his investie back without mentioning that a citizen of his country is also on board.

The "My Heart Will Go On" thing is a joke and it also just doesn't make sense unless the proposed scenario is that they were listening to just this on loop throughout the entire trip and nobody installed an off button. Also really baseless assumption that this duct-tape-and-gluegun carbon fiber tube has a safety demo of any kind.

This is kind of the one I felt the need to correct. The others are silly minor details that don't matter but this one is sort of just meaningfully factually wrong about a subject that does matter outside of this situation. A submersible isn't a submarine which doesn't meet safety standards, it's a different thing used for different purposes which has different safety concerns. Good luck getting a submarine to the Challenger Deep! A submersible and a submarine actually aren't even certified by the same authorities because one is treated like a type of ship and the other is its own independent type of object. It's a bit like saying something is a crane because it didn't meet safety standards to be classified as a bus. They just aren't even the same type of thing.

It also wouldn't apply in this case because it implies that Titan underwent some sort of safety classification process; it didn't. In fact Oceangate did everything it possibly could to skirt them by launching in a place that technically counts as international waters, classifying what are obviously passengers as "mission specialists" and thus crew members, refusing to submit to optional tests, and outright lying about what tests had been run. There are multiple classes of submersible, and when people talk about Titan not being classed what they meant is that it does not have one of these existing classes because Oceangate claims it's simply too advanced. It is classified as a submersible because it fits the definition of a submersible, not because it's a bad submarine or even because it's a good submersible; it is neither of those things. Yes, though, Stockton Rush did say that safety regulations "needlessly prioritize[s] passenger safety over innovation".

I can't find anything about them needing to buy their own lunch. I did see someone saying that when going on Titan you bring a bottle of water and a sandwich, but they were at sea for around a week beforehand so I see no reason to think those sandwiches were like, brought from home in a lunchbox. You just don't need a lot of food to spend a few hours in a small tube where using the bathroom is ideally to be avoided! This is probably the least strange thing about the way this program is run.

I have no idea where you got the cannibalism thing. We have no reason to think that. I'm sure people have made offhand jokes about it but we don't actually even know if the submersible is still intact or if they were all killed in one single catastrophic event. A few days is not a long enough time for hunger to be an actual threat to survival, and I'm honestly not sure there's even the tools to kill and butcher a human in there.

And, again, there is no way to be sure that the sub is in one piece and they're all still alive, never mind cannibalism. The submersible very clearly had issues with its pressure hull and potentially the window, so it's extremely plausible that it just popped like a balloon and everyone inside was vaporized instantaneously. If the sub is largely intact but the pressure hull is flooded hypothermia or even drowning could have gotten them. We just literally have no idea what happened beyond the fact that whatever it was must have been stupid and preventable. If the hull is intact we will probably never know what happened between the occupants due to the lack of recorders.

Just because people think it might be someone alive in the sub making noises, and one person suggested Nargeolet in particular, doesn't mean that's true. We learned this during the MH370 search - all sorts of things make noise underwater and it's incredibly plausible that something else is making those sounds. Everything that happened after the sub lost contact is uncertain.

Anyway most of this is some degree of pedantic and doesn't matter beyond this one specific news event but please take at least one thing away from this: a submersible is not a worse submarine. They are different things that accomplish different goals. Submersibles are very safe when rules governing them are actually followed. Titan is the Christmas Bullet of submersibles. It is not to be taken as an example. Don't confuse accidents involving submarines, like the Kursk, for submersibles either. Prior to this the last fatal accident involving a manned submersible was in 1974. You practically have to try to make a submersible as unsafe as Titan.

My favourite things about the whole OceanGate disaster, in no particular order

That the vessel was originally named Cyclops II but the CEO renamed it to Titan, so it’s even BETTER than the Titanic

He also called it indestructible

The guy piloting the vessel is an ex-naval captain who has been on several titanic manned trips. But the guy is 77 rn

The billionaire from Pakistan is apparently friends with King Charles. You’d think for someone who’s besties with a guy whose job was literally being born, he’d care more about protecting his bloodline. Instead, he brought his 19 year old with him

Meanwhile, the stepson of one of the other billionaires (I think the British one named Hamish) went to a Blink 182 concert. When questioned about this, he basically went “my family would want me to go to the concert”. Today, minutes after posting about asking for thoughts and prayers, he @‘ed an OF model on Twitter, asking her to sit on his face

Bc it’s part of the safety demo & music track list for the trip, there is a VERY good chance that if there’s still some power left in the sub, it’s playing an instrumental of My Heart Will Go On on loop

Also, the vessel is a submersible bc it doesn’t meet literally any of the safety regulations to be called a submarine. Which the CEO knew, because he’s blatantly said that safety regulations get in the way of progress

The CEO once stated that he thought the future of humanity was not in space, but in the ocean when the surface becomes uninhabitable

Apparently the controller he’s using has REAL bad reviews because the connection always fails

These idiots paid $250k EACH but they had to pack their own lunch. Not even a damn charcuterie board

The pilot’s seat is on the toilet. So whenever someone needs to go, the pilot needs to move

There’s 1 window looking out. That’s it

It’s about the size of a minivan

The sub uses texts (but only to the CEO’s phone) to communicate, as well as StarLink, but they can only access that if they surface

The door literally cannot be opened from inside

There is a decent chance that at least 1 person has been cannibalized (my bet was the pilot since he’s not rich, but bc of the banging sounds, he’s probs not dead, so it may be the CEO)

They’re supposed to run out of oxygen tomorrow (22/06/23) at 7 am est, but tbh, the CO2 scrubber system will probs fail before that

The toilet is a plastic bag

This is only the 3rd time in 3 years the vessel has gone to the Titanic. Every other time, there’s an issue and they gotta turn back within like 4 hours

A lot of major news networks are trying to remain positive, but it’s a HILARIOUS comparison when you go to social media and every single person is like “yeah that shit is built like a cardboard boat, they’re fucked”

The company’s name is literally called OceanGate