#yes I think she's the best option for Zuko objectively speaking

[seyaryminamoto]

Hey! Do you really like Zuko and Suki together or you just ship these two just so you can ship the best and hottest ship ever aka Sokkla? In any case, why do you think Zuko is better off with Suki out of all the avatar characters? Thank you and pls stay healthy.

XD well, it’s a mix of both, I guess.

The truth is, I read the comics and I sensed the romantic vibe between Zuko and Suki because I don’t think anyone who has had much experience with romantic fiction could see those scenes and not think there’s SOMETHING going on there. I mean, seriously, the hand reach in The Promise, Suki unnecessarily correcting herself in The Search to say EVERYONE is worried about Zuko, not just her, their moonlight conversation in Smoke and Shadow…? Come the heck on. If neither one was in a relationship, most people would be reading all those scenes as blatantly romantic.

Still, I stayed neutral as far as Zuko ships were concerned until I met a Zuki shipper who read my first story, The Reason, and roped me into Zuki without much trouble :’D (if you’re wondering, that was @jordanalane). It didn’t take her too much work to convince me to ship Zuki, because yes, it was convenient as heck to have Zuki happen when you ship Sokkla, but I was already half-on-board with it as I was…

Now then, if you’d like to know my actual, rational reasoning for why I’d ship it, the truth is that I’m not exactly the biggest Zuko fan (as some archive diving in my blog would show…), and most the ships I’ve seen for him seem to exacerbate what I really don’t like about his character. Meanwhile, Suki seems to do the exact opposite thing…

Mai is Zuko’s canon girlfriend, and I was more or less neutral towards this ship at first… but upon further reflection, I found I didn’t enjoy their relationship that much. Maybe they could work well with each other… if they were more mature and less impulsive :’) but Zuko’s behavior with Mai through most of Book 3 only convinced me that he’s absolutely not grown enough to have healthy romantic relationships with anyone (and seeing as Mai was pissed at him 9 times out of 10 throughout Book 3, I think my perception isn’t exactly off). Both have their faults, and boy, in the comics Mai is a much worse offender than Zuko if you ask me, but the point is that, while canon certainly has been very realistic by not turning their love story into the perfect, smoothest fairytale, I really don’t think they’re much good for each other as they are, and the only way they could get better in the future is if they grow a LOT, on their own, before trying their luck at being together again. The likelihood of that, however, isn’t exactly great :’D

Then there’s the most famous pairing for Zuko, Katara, who actually feels wrong to me for the exact same reasons as Mai would, despite Katara is on the opposite end of the spectrum Mai is, character-wise: the thing is, both Mai and Katara have a ton of things in common with Zuko, but not necessarily good things. If Zuko and Katara were, as well, less impulsive and more mature, they might make a decent enough match. But as they are in canon? They’re every bit as likely to self-destruct and tear each other down as Mai and Zuko were. Where Mai and Zuko share a jaded, gloomy perspective of the world, Katara and Zuko share a hot-headedness that means every tiny thing could easily lead to catastrophic, world-ending arguments between them. I mean, if Zuko could have huge arguments with someone as cold-blooded as Mai… just imagine with someone as hot-blooded as Katara :’) And I DO see the virtues of this ship, namely the ones that resemble, to a fault, my particular OTP… but I honestly can’t see Zuko and Katara being good influences on each other, romantically. Friendship-wise they could be healthier, but romance means expectations and complications that, like I said, I don’t think Zuko, as we last see him in canon, is prepared to deal with.

There’s other Zuko ships, naturally, and I won’t get into all of them, I just bring up these two because they’re the biggest ones… and so, why would I ship him with Suki rather than with Mai or Katara or anyone else? What exactly could make her a better match for him?

Suki has a few things in common with Zuko… but they’re not the things Mai and Katara have in common. The first, and most important of them for me, is that Suki (in her initial episode) seems to put a lot of stock in honor and duty as a Kyoshi Warrior. I’m not at all in the “Zuko is the most honorable man in the Avatar world!” camp, if anything I believe he needs to learn a LOT to really understand honor, even at the end of the show and at this point in the comics… whereas I don’t have the same feeling with Suki. Not only did she fight for her people, defending them from any threat even if she might die for it, she also was inspired by Aang, Sokka and Katara to travel the world, not with some angry intent to defeat the Fire Nation and end the war, but…

And while “changing the world” could easily be interpreted as “she wants to defeat the Fire Nation at any cost!”, what do we know Suki was up to between Books 1 and 2? 

Suki wanted to HELP people. Compare this to the banished prince who stole from them instead… :’) Suki didn’t have an Avatar leading her group, telling her this was “the right thing to do”, she simply does it because she believes it is, deep down, and she doesn’t just wait around for someone else to step up, she chooses to take action by her own volition. She doesn’t need anyone telling her what’s right or wrong, she has strong enough principles that she can tell what is and what isn’t, all on her own :’) Doesn’t THIS sound like honor? Duty? Doesn’t this sound like someone who actually sets a great example, as far as these concepts go?

Compare this to Katara, who was easily influenced by Zuko into wanting to kill a man, who shifts between “I want to steal things because I feel I need them” and “OMG Toph how dare you scam people that’s so unethical” at the drop of a hat? Yes, Katara’s heart is in the right place, but Katara is highly emotional and hot-headed… so as many good intentions as she may have, she can do pretty awful things without even realizing how awful they are (as in the case of the theft, she doesn’t even blink about stealing clothes from people in The Headband and then is utterly aghast about what Toph is up to merely a few episodes later… come the heck on). Compare it, too, to Mai, who apparently loves her baby brother so very much (according to her fans and to Smoke and Shadow, at least…), but didn’t even blink when Azula decided they couldn’t trade a toddler for a king, and declared the deal was off without betraying the slightest hint of remorse? Do we really know that Mai has decent principles at all? She doesn’t exactly betray Azula because she ideologically disagrees with her, she does it to save Zuko. Which leads me to wonder, what on earth are Mai’s morals? What does she value other than Zuko? If she values Zuko more than anything… heh. Yikes. Definitely sounds like theirs will be a healthy relationship if that’s the case, huh?

I can’t imagine Suki being swayed easily by any wild or stupid ideas Zuko gets if she knows they’re stupid AND wrong. She’d put a stop to him where Katara or Mai could get swept into whatever he’s up to (whether out of excessive empathy or apathy, in either case), and she’d be likely to set him straight before Zuko can take anything too far. As far as morals go, I will always hold that Zuko leaves too much to be desired… but Suki really doesn’t. Could be because we don’t know Suki as well as we know the other characters, but what little we do see of Suki, she doesn’t do anything that merits much reprieve. Most importantly, she never needed, like I said, Aang or Sokka or anyone else to tell her what she had to do, to correct her morals or anything of the sort. This by itself already makes her, in my opinion, the best possible character, in canon, to stabilize Zuko and temper his most chaotic impulses while teaching him, by example, what honor really looks like.

Now, that’s not all: Suki is highly independent and has experience as a leader. Zuko has always tried to be independent too, succeeding in some situations, failing in others. Of course, there’s a stark difference between independence and loneliness, and Zuko does have tendencies to isolate himself from others whenever he gets stubborn and wants to prove himself… fortunately, that’s one of the things I do think the show helped him with, as he did learn there’s nothing wrong with asking others for help. Still, I’m sure Zuko would like to handle things on his own, without needing everyone to help him… and once again, Suki can set an example for him in that sense. She makes her own decisions, fights for what she believes in, follows her heart and such, and never self-destructs in the process… all of which must sound idyllic to Zuko, who I’m sure has always wanted to be like that, too.

Maybe it sounds confusing for me to advocate for a couple while saying the characters ought to teach each other to be independent :’D but the way I see it, this is, if anything, a good thing: Zuko shouldn’t be in a co-dependent relationship, not unless he’s HIGHLY developed, far more than canon and most fics allow. Being with someone who doesn’t need him 24/7, who respects him and knows how to give him space, who wouldn’t be invasive and who would teach him not to be invasive too… through a relationship with someone like Suki, Zuko could genuinely learn to respect someone else’s independence fully, and figure out how to be like that, too.

As for the leadership, Suki has only led Kyoshi Warriors, a small group… so it may sound like something that can’t be compared to leading an entire country. But that’s REALLY part of my problem with Zuko… I’m sorry, but the point at the finale where everyone looked to him as though he’d lead them into finding Aang was absolutely absurd to me. The argument that he’s the one experienced at figuring out how to track down Aang DID make sense and salvaged the scene for me, but as far as leadership is concerned? Sokka by far outdoes him in that area, he literally led a goddamn military invasion and later in Sozin’s Comet he’s seen strategizing and leading Toph and Suki as he orchestrates the downfall ofthe worst of Ozai’s conquest/destruction force. I mean, seriously...

… Anyways, got sidetracked :’D the point is, Zuko hasn’t really been much of a leader in canon. Has he been in a position of command before? Yeah, he was in Book 1. But does this mean he’s a LEADER? A born leader? Yeah, we didn’t see remotely enough of him in a leadership position that could have convinced me of that.

Hence, Iroh theoretically should be a great influence for him in those regards, because Iroh not only was raised to be Fire Lord for well over 50 years, Iroh has been in positions of leadership before, he’s even apparently the leader of the White Lotus. Therefore… Iroh is a good idea. But what did canon do? They sent Iroh on a retirement plan to a teashop in Ba Sing Se and Zuko had to fend for himself! :’D fascinating, right? 

While of course Sokka could be a great influence and help Zuko too, as far as leadership is concerned, canon chooses to keep him chasing after Aang and Katara without any aim or purpose… whereas it chooses to send Suki to Zuko as bodyguard and eventual confidante. Like I said, Suki does have experience as a leader, even if only on a small scale: couldn’t she be eligible for helping Zuko figure out how to lead the Fire Nation, through sharing some of the lessons she learned as leader of the Kyoshi Warriors? It even offers the possibility of Suki and Zuko learning side by side in some regards too, since this whole royal mess isn’t at all what Suki would be used to… so that allows interesting dynamics and complications to arise too, and they can both grow and learn a lot together.

Point and case being, I just can’t imagine these two ever getting into a fucked-up toxic romance, whereas I absolutely can see something of the sort with virtually every other Zuko ship I’ve known. Granted, the whole “But Sukka and Maiko are canon so they’d be cheaters!” side of things can lend towards an unhealthy situation, but I’d honestly rather not portray these two as cheating on their current love interests for each other…? Anyone who wants to is free to do as much, of course, but it’s barely necessary if you ask me :’D people can break up, and get together with other people, without needing a Days of Our Lives-sized drama along with it.

So, in short, I really think Suki is the healthiest possibility for Zuko. Pretty much every harmful thing I can think of in any other Zuko ship is ruled out with Suki. Even as friends Suki would be a great influence on Zuko for all the reasons I said above, but the reasons I mentioned above are also why I think that, if Zuko got to know Suki better, he might find himself smitten before he knows what’s going on: she basically embodies everything he ever wanted to be. He’d be full of admiration for her, and she’d probably be utterly clueless over why x’D and that even offers interesting romantic dynamics to the two characters. I can imagine Zuko being a bit of a tortured old-school romance hero who feels Suki is absolutely magnificent and wonderful and perfect… while she’s like “so is he ever going to pin me to a wall or is it all in my head?”, and frankly that’s about the best possible idea I can imagine in a relationship involving Zuko x’D

I do ship Zuko in a few other ships, I’ve mentioned before that I like Toph and Zuko, but I like Toph and Zuko as a temporary thing (and ONLY with a fully developed Zuko too, once they’re both around 20-30 too). It’s a cute enough ship, but I don’t really think it could last, and I don’t think they could offer each other nearly enough of what Suki and Zuko can offer each other. Hence, I’ve always envisioned Toph could be more of a casual love interest for Zuko (a big reason why is because I can’t imagine Toph consciously settling down with anyone…), and I’ve seldom written it into anything because I lean harder towards Zuki. Gladiator-wise, Toph and Zuko would have been AWFUL together, no matter if I had a few people asking if I could make them a thing :’D hahaha, nope. I like the ship plenty, but it would have been dreadful.

Anyways, yes, Zuki is highly convenient and compatible with Sokkla, but that’s far from the only reason to ship it. Canon may go in whichever direction it wishes, I’m pretty sure they won’t find anything better for Zuko than what they already toyed with in the comics with him and Suki.

Granted, a few of these arguments aren’t exactly suitable for Gladiator’s Zuki, but there are many other arguments to be made there (I actually leaned very heavily into the honor side of things when Zuko first saw her in the Arena, precisely because I think that particular side of Suki would be one of the first things to appeal to him about her). Either way, be it in canon-based settings or in my own particular AU, I’m pretty sure Zuko’s best match would be Suki.

[zuko-always-lies]

Unpopular Opinion: Zuko’s treatment of Mai is deeply toxic.

Mai is a character who is often maligned in the fandom, with it even occasionally being claimed that she was “abusive” toward Zuko. Any objective analysis of Mai’s behavior in her relationship with Zuko will instead find that she was, in fact, a shockingly good romantic partner, generally treating Zuko very well and being loyal to him far beyond reasonable expectation.  Claims that Mai behaved toxically toward Zuko seem to be instead founded in misogynistic expectations that women be perfect caretakers for the men in their lives.

That is not to say that the Zuko-Mai relationship isn’t still deeply toxic. However, its toxicity stems from the manner which Zuko badly mistreats Mai, often in ways which devalue her. Much more under the cut.

Our story begins in the first half of Book 3.  The vast majority of episodes there don’t show anything particularly toxic going on in the relationship. The most you can say is that they suggest that Zuko tends to dump his problems on others and doesn’t have best understanding of his girlfriend.

However, inevitably we must turn to “The Beach,” the episode which, by far, gets the most into the Zuko-Mai relationship. To say that Zuko doesn’t behave well toward Mai in this episode would be an understatement. I don’t speak here of Zuko’s unsuccessful attempts to please Mai early in the episode, but instead how badly he starts treating her beginning at the party:

Ruon Jian: Hey, first ones here, huh? Zuko: (cut to shot of Zuko and Mai walking side by side) Pft. He thinks he's so great. (to Mai) Well, what do you think of him? (they stop walking) Mai: I don't have any opinion about him. I hardly know him. Zuko: You like him, don't you? (Mai sighs and walks away, as Zuko looks angrily in the direction of Ruon Jian. The camera zooms in on Ruon Jian)

And

(Cut to shot of Ruon Jian leaning over Mai. Zuko rushes toward them angrily and pushes Ruon Jian away from her. Cut to shot of Ruon Jian straightening his hair.) Ruon Jian: Whoa. What are you doing? Zuko: (close-up shot of Zuko, angry) Stop talking to my girlfriend! Ruon Jian: (Ruon Jian approaches Zuko) Relax, it's just a party. (Zuko pushes Ruon Jian hard, sending him flying across the room, breaking a giant vase.) Mai: (Mai stands up and grabs Zuko's shoulder. He turns towards her.) Zuko, what is wrong with you?! Zuko: What's wrong with me?! Mai: (angrily) Your temper's out of control. You blow up over every little thing. You're so impatient and hot-headed and angry. Zuko: Well, at least I feel something...as opposed to you. You have no passion for anything. (raising his arms is the air) You're just a big "blah". Mai: (turning away from him) It's over, Zuko. We're done.

 And:

(Zuko follows her and the camera pans down to the handprint, left alone on the porch. Cut to wide view of the camera panning down Ember Island Beach. Zuko and Azula are walking side by side toward Mai and Ty Lee. Close shot of Zuko looking toward Mai and then looking away. Close shot of Mai looking angry and a bit sad.) Mai: Hey... (Interrupted) Zuko: (close shot of Zuko) Where's your new boyfriend? (Mai turns away angrily. Zuko comes and sits next to her) Are you cold? (he puts his arm around her, but she slaps it away)

Zuko is acting in a massively controlling fashion toward Mai, motivated by his violent and rage-filled jealously.  She literally can’t talk to a boy without Zuko flying into a jealous rage, trying to separate her from the person she’s talking to, and accusing her of emotional infidelity. In real life, this is considered a warning sign for an abusive relationship(although I don’t think Zuko has crossed the line into abusive yet).

“The Beach” also gives us this:

Mai: Oh, well, I'm sorry I can't be as high-strung and crazy as the rest of you. (Cut to over-head shot of the four teens. Zuko walks closer to the fire and Mai.) Zuko: I'm sorry, too. I wish you would be high-strung and crazy for once, (Close shot of Mai looking away and Zuko standing over her) instead of keeping all your feelings bottled up inside. She just called your aura dingy. Are you gonna take that?

Zuko tries to provoke Mai into having a fight with her best friend Ty Lee just so he can watch her express strong emotions.  Zuko very much wants to Mai to be and act like someone she’s not, which has its own issues.

Overall, Zuko treats Mai quite poorly in “The Beach.” The episode ends with this:

Mai: I know one thing I care about... (Cut to shot of Mai smiling at Zuko) I care about you. (Mai and Zuko kiss. Azula claps, causing them to separate and turn toward Azula. The camera pans left to include her.)

Mai forgives Zuko and accepts him back without him acknowledging his behavior was wrong, apologizing for it, or giving her any guarantee that he will treat her better in the future. That’s unfortunate, as Zuko soon ends up treating her far, far worse than he ever did in this episode.

Zuko’s disregard for Mai cumulates with the manner he commits treason on the Day of Black Sun. Let us start our understanding of what he did wrong from the beginning. Breaking up with Mai via a letter which didn’t give her a real explanation was a real asshole move, but it’s not at the core of what he did wrong.  For that, we need to turn to this conversation from “The Headband”:

Zuko: Can't you see we're busy? (He and Mai resume their "business".) Azula: (not to be put off) Oh, Mai... Ty Lee needs your help untangling her braid. Mai: (complaisantly) Sounds pretty serious. (She gets up and leaves. Walking past Azula, towards the camera, she shoots the princess a quick, poisonous glance behind her back.) Azula: So...I hear you've been to visit your Uncle Fatso in the prison tower. Zuko: (standing, incensed)��That guard told you. Azula: (smugly) No, you did. Just now. Zuko: (sitting back down) Okay, you caught me. What is it that you want, Azula? Azula: (solicitiously) Actually, nothing. Believe it or not, I'm looking out for you. If people find out you've been to see Uncle, they'll think you're plotting with him. Just be careful, dum-dum.

Zuko has proven his loyalty to the Fire Nation beyond doubt, yet Azula is still very worried that him spending time with Iroh will get him accused of treason, because having a close association with traitors puts oneself under almost automatic suspicion of treason.

“Day of Black Sun, Part II”:

Zuko: First of all, in Ba Sing Se, it was Azula who took down the Avatar, not me. Fire Lord Ozai: Why would she lie to me about that? Zuko: Because the Avatar is not dead. He survived. Fire Lord Ozai: (alarmed) What?!

Zuko deliberately throws Azula under the bus, hurting her and reducing her status with Ozai as much possible while effectively accusing her of deliberately committing treason. He also deliberately pisses off Ozai as much as possible.

So where does this leave us? Mai is Zuko’s known girlfriend and extremely close associate. Automatically, the suspicion of knowing of Zuko’s treason ahead of time or being involved falls upon her. She’s in grave risk of being imprisoned, tortured, or executed, especially since Ozai seems not the type to be strictly concerned with ensuring those he punishes are guilty beyond reasonable doubt. The Fire Nation seems like a society which might have collective punishment(as historical East Asian societies, Nazi Germany, and the Stalinist Soviet Union did), and Mai might be under risk from that direction.  Finally, Ozai might hurt her simply as way of retaliating against Zuko.

Normally Azula would almost certainly be able to protect her friend, even under these trying circumstances, given Azula’s prestige and accomplishments.  However, Zuko has deliberately undermined Azula as much as possible and effectively accused her of committing treason herself, dramatically reducing the probability that she will be able to protect Mai.  In fact, Mai stands risk of being accused of being involved in Azula’s effort to “conceal the fact that the Avatar survived,” given Mai’s close association with Azula and her close involvement in the events where the Avatar “died.” She’s thus under danger from two different directions.

“But Zuko had to betray his father and become good through aiding Team Avatar.” Yes, it’s a good thing he did so. But Zuko had other options than the course he adopted. He could have avoided confronting Ozai at all and instead focused on rescuing Iroh(interesting AU idea right here).  He could have confronted Ozai but not thrown Azula under the bus, and that alone would have vastly reduced the risk to Mai(and also made Zuko out to be a better person, because deliberately throwing your younger sister under the bus and then abandoning her to the mercy of your abusive father is not a good look).  Zuko could have killed Ozai right then and there during the eclipse.  He even could have tried to lead Team Avatar to the bunker and tried to end the war right then and there.

“Zuko didn’t understand that he was placing Mai in danger.” Quite possible, but Zuko being so self-centered that he is unable of understanding that his actions can have negative effects on other people is a mark against him, not for him.

Now we turn to the Zuko’s behavior toward Mai in the rest of the third season.  Let us start with “The Boiling Rock, Part 1”:

Sokka: (emphatically) I think your Uncle would be proud of you. Leaving your home to come help us, that's hard. Zuko: It wasn't that hard. Sokka: (Cut to a side view of the basket) Really? You didn't leave behind anyone you cared about? Zuko: Well I did have a girlfriend. Mai. Sokka: (He goes closer to Zuko with a surprised look on his face) That gloomy girl who sighs a lot? Zuko: (Cut back to show Zuko grinning goofily) Yeah. (his face turns serious) Everyone in the Fire Nation thinks I'm a traitor. I couldn't drag her into it. Sokka: (Cut back to Sokka who leans back on the basket) My first girlfriend turned into the Moon. Zuko: (looks up) That's rough buddy

There are two things to unpack here. First, Zuko claims he “couldn’t drag her into it,” yet he already did, as I’ve illustrated above. Second, Zuko seems to expect that Mai would have followed him into treason if he asked her, that she would be willing to betray her nation, ideology, family, and friends just for the sake of her love for him. That’s an insane and pretty toxic expectation for Zuko to have for her relationship with him, especially since he wouldn’t do the same for her.

We also get more confirmation that Zuko doesn’t care at all about Ty Lee or Azula.

I don’t have a lot to say about the Zuko-Mai conversation during Boiling Rock, Part 2. The only things I would like to note are that Zuko is not very sorry for what he did, not very empathetic toward Mai’s pain, and doesn’t give Mai a real apology for his actions.

Of course, Mai proceeds to save Zuko’s life through committing treason in front of dozens of witnesses at Boiling Rock, something which places her own life in serous jeopardy. How does Zuko react to this?

Zuko: (Cut to a shocked Zuko) It's Mai. Azula: (Cut to a furious Azula) What is she doing?! (Cut to the backs of Azula and Ty Lee as Ty Lee shrugs and makes a "I don't know" noise. Cut to the gondola as it reaches the outer part of the crater. Cut to the inside of the entrance tower as the door opens and Suki rushes out followed by Sokka, Zuko, Hakoda and Chit Sang. Hakoda turns towards Chit Sang and points to the inside of the gondola. Chit Sang proceeds to throw the warden back in.) Hakoda: (Cut to the back of Hakoda's head looking at the warden lying on the floor) Sorry Warden, your record is officially broken. (Hakoda walks off screen while the warden continues to struggle on the floor. Cut to a front shot of the group as they run up a rocky incline.) Suki: Well, we made it out. Now what? Sokka: (Sokka stops and looks back at Zuko who pauses in his tracks, thinking) Zuko, what are you doing? Zuko: My sister was on that island. Sokka: Yeah and she's probably right behind us. So let's not stop. Zuko: What I mean is she must have come here somehow. (He runs to the edge of the rocks and looks down) There. (Cut to an area looking up at the edge of the cliff) That's our way out of here. (Camera pans down to reveal a Fire Nation zeppelin docked at the shore.

Zuko says Mai’s name once and then abandons her (to die?) with zero hesitation.  This is probably objectively the correct decision. It would probably be extremely difficult and dangerous if not outright impossible to save Mai.  The prison-break crew do have access to an airship, but it’s difficult to fly an airship over the lake’s thermals.

Yet that’s not my point. Zuko abandons Mai with zero hesitation, with zero anguish, with zero angst. He doesn’t even to seem consider the possibility that he should save her.  Something tells me if Iroh had just saved Zuko’s life under identical circumstances and then was in imminent risk of harm, Zuko would act very differently, that Sokka, Suki, and Hakoda would have to drag him off that island.

Zuko’s complete disregard for Mai continues for the rest the series. Remember this exchange from “The Cave of Two Lovers”?

Zuko: (losing his patience) We're not taking any more chances with these plants! We need to get help. Iroh: But where are we going to go? We're enemies of the Earth Kingdom, and fugitives from the Fire Nation. Zuko: (musingly) If the Earth Kingdom, discovers us, they'll have us killed. Iroh: But if the Fire Nation discovers us, we'll be turned over to Azula.

Zuko considers being captured by Azula a worse fate than death!

But do we see Zuko worry once about Mai’s fate? Do we see angst about what might have happened to her? Do we see him make any effort to even discover her fate, much less rescue her?

No. In fact, Zuko launches a sophisticated operation to infiltrate a Fire Nation information center so that he can gain intelligence in order to help Katara murder someone so that she’ll like him, but he doesn’t even consider doing the same to find out about Mai’s fate so that he could potentially rescue her. Zuko doesn’t even mention Mai once after Boiling Rock until the very end of the series finale, even though she sacrificed herself to save him. Remember this exchange(“Sozin’s Comet, Part 3”):

Zuko: Sorry, but you're not going to become Fire Lord today. (jumps off Appa) I am. Azula: (laughs) You're hilarious. Katara: (standing beside Zuko) And you're going down. (The fire sage motions to crown Azula, but she raises her hand, signalling him to stop.) Azula: Wait. You want to be Fire Lord Fine. Let's settle this. Just you and me, brother. The showdown that was always meant to be. Agni Kai! Zuko: You're on. (Katara turns to Zuko, surprised. Cut to a close up of Azula's lips as the curls into a smile. Cut back to Katara and Zuko.) Katara: What are you doing? She's playing you. She knows she can't take us both so she is trying to separate us. Zuko: I know. But I can take her this time. Katara: But even you admitted to your Uncle that you would need help facing Azula. Zuko: There's something off about her, I can't explain it but she's slipping. And this way, no one else has to get hurt. (Fade to a shot of the courtyard from the side. The camera pans from Zuko kneeling on the right end to Azula kneeling on the left end. Cut to a shot of Zuko rising and turning around, then cut to a shot of Azula rising. Each can be seen behind the other. Cut to a shot of Azula from the front turning and removing the Fire Lord robes.) Azula: I'm sorry it has to end this way, brother. Zuko: (in his stance) No, you're not.

Notice something? Zuko doesn’t demand to know what happened to Mai! It’s almost like he forgot she existed!

Now we turn to the final infamous exchange(“Sozin’s Comet, Part 4”):

Mai:(off screen) You need some help with that? (He looks up surprised and moves aside to reveal Mai leaning against the doorway. Cut to a close up of Mai as she walks towards Zuko.) Zuko: (Cut to a delighted Zuko) Mai! (Walks off screen) You're ok. (Cut to an area behind Mai's back as Zuko opens his arms out in a hug) They let you out of prison? (Mai walks behind Zuko and lifts up his empty robe sleeve.) Mai: My uncle (Zuko puts his arms through the sleeve) pulled some strings, (she proceeds to fasten his robe) and it doesn't hurt when the new Fire Lord is your boyfriend. (She walks in front of Zuko and places a hand on his chest) Zuko: So does this mean you don't hate me anymore? Mai: (she blushes) I think it means... (Cut to a close up of the couple) I actually (places a hand on Zuko's cheek) kind of like you. (They lean in for a kiss and part a fewseconds later, looking into each other's eyes happily) But don't ever (She jabs a finger into Zuko's shoulder and Zuko's eye traces the movement of her finger) break up (She lifts her finger into the air and Zuko's eyes still follows it) with me again. (She jabs her finger into Zuko's shoulder one last time and Zuko smiles goofily. They embrace and the camera zooms out slowly.

Zuko seems surprised to learn that Mai is OK, almost like he made no effort to find out her fate once he took charge of the Fire Nation. And indeed, his first acts as leader of the Fire Nation were not to find out what happened to her or, if he actually knew, to get her released from prison.  Mai only got released from prison when her uncle and his connections got sufficiently confident that Zuko had been completely accepted as the new leader to release a massive traitor completely on their own initiative.  This was quite possibly weeks after Azula-Zuko Agni Kai, yet he made no apparent effort to get her released. It’s almost like Zuko completely forgot about Mai, even though she sacrificed herself to save him.

And, of course, Zuko doesn’t accept responsibility for any of the awful ways he treated Mai, much less apologize to her or offer any guarantee he will behave better in the future. Mai still forgives him anyways, just like she did in “The Beach,” only for Zuko to continue to screw her over. There is something deeply depressing here, as there’s every reason to believe that Zuko will screw over Mai over, devalue her, and disregard her well-being, desires, and interests again the moment it’s convenient for him to do so. He certainly has not recognized that his toxic behavior here is something he needs to stop doing. Ironically, the comics get this right by having Zuko try to use his power as Firelord to order Mai to stay his girlfriend.

Ultimately, Zuko loves Mai and cares about her deeply, yet he still treats her as a tool and acts like she exists to serve him. It reminds me how show! canon Ozai genuinely loved show! canon Ursa, but still used her as a tool and threw her away.  Honestly, I doubt 16-year-old Zuko is really ready for any romantic relationship at all, given his often toxic behavior, his trauma, and the incredibly stressful position he’s placed in at the end of the series.

[solerey]

Some initial TROS thoughts, unpolished and rambling. Feel free to come chatter.

So...”Rey Palpatine” is kind of stupid, but also kind of the best option that they had available to them short of just...doing to TLJ the same thing that TLJ did to TFA and just kicking it apart and tossing the pieces out the window. And I guess JJ and the other folks working on this movie weren’t that level of asshole, okay.

How the hell does Poe being a spice smuggler fit his backstory? Was it a Resistance mission and he didn’t want to spill those beans in front of everybody mid-mission? Because seriously, how the hell is that supposed to fit even time-wise into the history we’ve been given, let alone personality-wise? Was JJ just trying real hard to make Poe “this movie’s Han” or something? Because I hate to break it to him but Poe is the new trio’s Leia and he’s the one who established that fact so he really should have remembered it okay. I mean...at least we do have the canon of Han Solo being a spice smuggler, so we can kind of say it’s not as bad of a Bad Racist Stereotype as it would be to pull the equivalent shit in our world...but at the same time, smuggling space under the Empire is rather different from smuggling spice under the New Republic, which is not a horrible totalitarian government...and for that matter, Poe had nice loving parents and a good childhood, unlike Han, so how the hell did he even end up starting that in the first place? It must have been some kind of undercover mission. It must have. Nothing else makes sense.

OH GODS THAT KISS ASJLK:SGOIWEUGHUAKBN:KNSFN WHYYYYY. I legit let out a noise of involuntary disgust and horror that was some kind of scream-turned-into-a-gurgle that I really, really wish I could duplicate but I don’t even know how I got my throat to issue that sound omg. Made half the theater giggle though whoops. Thank every power in the ‘verse that he died then, at least; if Kylo Ren had not only gotten a “redemption arc” but also lived I don’t know that I could have stomached it...

P.S. “I realized that I’ve been a complete monster and have murdered tons and tons of people for bad reasons and now I feel bad about it, so I’m going to go kill some of my old allies now and then give my lifeforce to someone who’s actually a Good Person so they can survive in my place and improve the galaxy in ways that my shitty whiny evil ass never could” is not the kind of “redemption arc“ that actually turns someone into a good person. Just like with Darth Vader, none of the horrible deeds that Kylo Ren did were erased by the fact that he had a last-minute epiphany and actually killed a few of the right people at the end. He is still a villain -- still a mass-murdering monster. He just managed to do one right thing before he died. He is not Zuko. But gosh, am I looking forward to watching the fandom elevate him to Character Sainthood for that. What is it with people and their inability to enjoy a villain without painting him as some Innocent Woobie? In my day, we could look at our Magnetos and our Doctor Dooms and say “oh yes he’s such an interesting character, I love reading about him, definitely a favorite!” without also convincing ourselves that he was a Good Person who Never Did Anything Wrong Ever...I say, grumbling, from my rocker on the porch of The Fandom Elders.

He’s worse than Kyp Duron and tbh I think Kyp Duron should have gone to jail.

Anyway...I kind of hated the Han scene? And not just because it was part of the “absolve Kylo Ren’s horrific crimes” subplot, but because it just didn’t make sense.

SPEAKING OF...what the hell was up with the “we can teleport objects across massive distances with the Force” nonsense? And people were upset that Leia used the Force to pull herself through vacuum okaaaaay...

Oh Leia. Oh Carrie. At least we got something. Thank you. Thank you to everyone who gave us that; to everyone who salvaged that. Thank you.

Also I really really wish that someone writing for the New Canon would go back to watch the first movie and figure out how hyperspace works. Ughhhh...

Not a lot of Rose in this movie, alas -- I guess she was “the Lando” of the films, huh? Shows up in the second movie and is awesome (really the only good thing to come out of TLJ wasn’t she?) but then gets pulled back to supporting-character role in the third... Hopefully the new expanded universe will do a better job of keeping her around and engaged in the further stories than the original EU did with Lando!

Even less Connix, which is sad. I wonder if it was hard for her, coming back to Star Wars without her mom? Oh Carrie. My princess eternal.

What was the point of the new droid? Don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t annoyed by it or anything -- I just didn’t get what he was actually there for? Whatever.

THANK THE FUCKING FORCE THEY DIDN’T KILL CHEWBACCA. I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO EVAPORATE RIGHT OUT OF MY SEAT WHEN THAT SHIP BLEW UP.

So I’m guessing “Junior” is a baby Ackbar, right? Too bad they didn’t go with Jesmin.

WEDGE. WEDGE. WEDGE. WEDGE ANTILLES!!!!

Thank the Force they didn’t kill Wedge, either. (They didn’t, right? I mean, I was watching, but things were kind of chaotic, and I only found out that they’d killed Ackbar in TLJ because they fucking said it afterward, since there had been nothing to indicate he was there before that...but they wouldn’t kill The Survivor, RIGHT?)

Oh man it was so nice to see Lando. I kind of wish he’d been in it more, but at the same time, the bits he was in were so perfect. I hope we get a book about him helping Jannah and the other former stormtroopers tracing their origins.

So real disappointing that we didn’t get to see Finn inspiring any stormtroopers to defect, huh? When they got surrounded on the Star Destroyer, I was so hoping that the stormies were going to suddenly recognize him and lower their blasters...SIGH.

Still, at least Finn is going to be Rey’s first New Jedi Student now, right? Right?

I did really like the group of defecting stormtroopers in general, though. That was excellent. They make me want to actually read a New Canon book although it’s a shame Aaron Allston isn’t here to write one about them because his style would be a kickass fit for that story, wouldn’t it? Whoever they get, I hope someone writes it.

I’m still torn on whether or not I like that it was Luke who lifted the X-Wing out. I do know that I don’t like the Force Ghosts Can Interact Tangibly With The World idea.

JEDISTORMPILOT hug at the end? HELL YES. That is the only ship I want to see in this movie. Okay no that’s a lie I would have also been delighted with Finn/Poe and happy with Finn/Rey but since they didn’t want to give us anything more than bait-and-switch bullshit in this trilogy, I will just sit back and be thrilled by the lack of (likely heteronormative) Mono Ship Resolution and enjoy the fact that the closest we come to actual canon is this charming polyship. Even though all these of these characters deserved BETTER than the weird quasi-love triangle/whatever the fuck was going on there...and we’re not talking about the kiss again ever yuck.

I really wish they hadn’t opened Zorii Bliss’s helmet. UGH.

Speaking of: disappointed that Phasma didn’t come back again lol. Could have gotten her ass kicked again by Finn...only better this time, like the deleted version.

Also why are all of the main characters humans? Come on man...the Resistance is not the Empire (or the First Order, or Final Order, or whatever they’re calling themselves; it’s just a fresh coat of paint on the same old xenophobia). There should be way more non-humans in the ensemble scenes...and a few more aliens as full characters. Someday we’re going to get someone who actually understands the world building of this universe to write a SW movie... You couldn’t even paint Zorii Bliss a different color? Ugh. All we really got was Chewie and a few background extras/jokes/one-liners...and Chewie was pretty underutilized too, imo.

SPEAKING OF, WHY WASN’T THIS MOVIE DEDICATED TO PETER MAYHEW?