#yeah ok thats it i think
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obligatory beach divorce doodling
bonus rough cover redraw of x-men #41 (1995) But Beach Divorce below cut
#mcu#marvel cinematic universe#xmen#xmen movies#xmen first class#cherik#charles xavier#erik lehnsherr#professor x#magneto#snap sketches#'snap i thought you were drawing old cherik this weekend' so did i but i was inflicted with visions sorry </3#i have my lil 92 comic sketched so ill do that tomorrow. not finish it but ill work on it 💀#i wsa just gonna draw the first thing but then i figureed i might as well draw Most of the beach-divorce-related things i want to#just so i could put it all on one post. however this is a lie and i know ill wanna doodle more beach stuff#the first drawing Unsurprisingly was motivated BY the xmen 41 legion quest cover- at the very least the total blackout of erik's face#i wanna draw more of erik using his powers .. i wanna figure out how i wanna draw the effect etc etc#i was just gonna redraw the cover but i already liked the sketch i did of the first thing so. here we are#plus i figure someones already done a redraw of the cover but if anyone cares ill finish my version ig LOL#as for the comic ermmm it was just an excuse to draw erik with glowing eyes </3 and fading-glowing eyes </3#thats why i didnt draw the whole. Choking Moira bit. but i wouldve if i was redrawing the whole scene#kinda wish i did now that i think of it cause it coulda looked cooler prob but oh well maybe in like. three months when i redraw this#for exactly five cents ill redraw the whole beach divorce erlkjealkaje i can see it so clearly in my mind#what if first class was a comic drawn by a freak thatd be wild#but yeah thats why everything look rough as christ these were just supposed to be silly lil thangs#'silly things' and its beach divorce OK.#ok bye im gonna do my homework
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i've been thinking about exactly why people portraying one of the other crew members successfully killing Jimmy as a "for what you did to Anya" kind of thing rubs me the wrong way a bit and it's because like..... this is just another form of taking agency away from Anya, in a way. it's kind of framing her as some meek, shivery woman-thing who's entirely at the mercy of the men around her, either to hurt her or save her.
(i understand these are mostly for wish fulfillment on the audience's behalf because everyone would like to see Jimmy pay for his crimes. whether or not this is the intention of the person writing it isn't really relevant, characterization happens with or without intent. i feel like it misses the point by portraying it as an 'ideal ending'.)
because... Anya is a capable person. she takes things into her own hands when she can. it was partially(?) her idea to get into the cargo,
(before he interrupts her.. remember when she interrupted Curly in the dead pixel segment?)
it was her idea to get the code scanner from the cockpit,
it was her idea to get the medication from behind the foam.
(the chance to do these things herself is not given to her.)
she'd been keeping Curly alive for months in a critical state somehow, her psych evaluations at the start are only so useless because Jimmy refuses to take it/her seriously and Curly is obviously biased when he puts it into his own hands. he's known him a long time, like he said. "I'll just put good for that one."
there's not a lot of material to work with because of how the game is framed, but it's there. we are working with two very biased perspectives and neither one lends Anya what she deserves
there's significant changes in how she speaks post- and pre- crash, and depending on who she happens to be talking to. i recommend re-reading her dialogue, because the difference is drastic
she acts the way she does around Jimmy because he has tangibly done horrible things to her, is actively hostile, and physically could not escape him by any means. she can't take away Curly's agency herself, in my eyes. you have to remember that Especially in the post-crash segments of the game, it's entirely from Jimmy's POV, and he obviously does not (and has never) thought very highly of her or treated her with a shred of respect
i've seen a general idea that she can't bear to hurt other people for any reason, but that doesn't really track to me. this is the real point of the post by the way
it seems based on the parts where she says she struggles to give Curly medication. "It just hurts him so much, I can't stand the noise." "It makes me nauseous."
it's not really the same thing as, say, hurting someone in self defense
this sounds like she did want the gun itself. this never felt worded like someone who would refuse to, at very least, threaten Jimmy with a gun, with violence. if she had been given the agency to make that decision on her own. she wasn't though
she still tries to reclaim some of it even as she's denied it
by the end she's still trying to keep that gun out of his hands
i think some people overly soften her, for similar reasons the game itself is trying to comment on. she's not a tender victim who couldn't cause pain to another out of the softness of her soul, she's a person who's had every last bit of agency ripped from her repeatedly until she couldn't take it anymore. that's the point. that's why framing her that way, "needing" someone to save her, is odd to me
she didn't need Curly to save her, she needed him to take responsibility
she didn't want to escalate things, but she's not an idiot. self defense was absolutely on her mind
but who knows im just saying shit *smiles serenely*
#dib noise#mouthwashing#sorryyyyyyyyy lol#i will defend you anya o7#its been fun to roll this game around in my brain. gives me something to do#long post#could be reaching though. it's unfortunate so much of her screentime is hammering home how poorly jimmy regards her#or her being scared/nervous in his presence#or trying to placate him#yes i know that's the point#are my feelings on how anya is treated by the the characters the fans and the game itself weirdly personal? yeah sorry#unfortunately i do think they didn't get the anya parts as solidly as the rest but oh well#everything has flaws#i've gone through a playthrough of this game like 10 times for this#you KNOW im sourcing my claims!!#not really an attack on the people who made the stuff i mentioned at the start#more of a commentary on how they relate with the source material itself#yes yes i know giving a crewmate a lethal weapon is probably not the best idea to curly#does that make this situation any less horrifying?#remember: these aren't real people. everything they do was written on purpose for a reason#i still need to write down my general thoughts on the game as a whole..#also not about one specific person post image writing ect it's a collection of things and ideas thrown onto one post#I'm not any good at ending posts like thase it kind of devolves by yhe end but thats ok
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#1 like a prayer fan none of you understand (insane)
#the movie was made for me thats why like a prayer by madonna is there and thats why ryan reynolds went to madonna's house to ask for permiss#ion yeah#(delusional)#deadpool#wolverine#poolverine#cassandra idk her last name#ive been dreaming for 500000 years for SOMEONE to use like a prayer somewhere Thank God.#almost cried during the choir version in the movie oh my glob#i heard it in a trailer it was barely discernible i think i used that word right#anyways you could barely hear it in the one trailer i saw on tv (i wanted to go in blind) and i was like LIKE A PRAYER ???? BY MADONNA ??!??#like girl u have no idea#anyways ermmm the yappsterrrrrr#deadpool and wolverine#forgot this tag#i love you like a prayer by madonna#controversial music video but DAMN its a good song Ok Bye#yknow i used to associate the song with pucci from jojo idk i think i was in my jjba era anyways Byyyeeeeeeeee ^_^ bye bye (bye bye)#I LOVE MUSIC#1 MUSIC LOVER
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its true!!
the original. well link to knowyourmeme but yanno. wahoo !
#in stars and time#isat#isat mirabelle#ummm thats it i dont think theres anything spoilerly???#i want to make special note of the note to myself i did live on stream#which is verbatim:#i habe the power of hod AND anime on my sife!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#Aaahhhhhhh#Mira#im proud of myself of being coherent in notes given the stream theme that day ASFASDASFAS#it couldve been much worse#but yeah !! i did a thing past me asked me to do thank you me thank you me#i may or may not have given up on the background midway thru and just started semi winging semi painting over the original image#it was going to be lined!!! but then i went nvm LOL#and i got so far into it and maybe messed up the layers so i couldnt go back and not do that ASDFASDA#but i like how it turned out overall :]#ok tag talk over#okay into q u go sleep time wahoooooooooo !
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N tries to tell another joke (gone wrong)
Sequel to This
#if you see any mistakes uhh no you don't#yknow i am a huge multishipper and i love almost every ship in this fandom#but id be lying if i said i didnt find envy to be like one of the most romantic relationships in MD#like??#"Loving you is so fundemental to who I am that even when my brain is digitally lobotomized and I can't even remember why#like hello Liam Vickers yeah its me again why the FUCK would you DO THAT#I think even if envuzi wasn't actually canon. I entirely believe that you can't actually seperate them anyway#like it kills me that the entirety of Murder Drones. N and V are in love with eachother. like mutually#and they still are. and thats just how things are.#I'd go further but this is literally a shitpost and I don't wanna make the tags a mile again#I'm just a yapper ok. I yap abt the robots#anyway uhhhh this comic isnt even super envuzi but since its a sequel to the last one ill tag it. why not#murder drones#serial designation n#serial designation v#uzi doorman#murder drones lizzy#md lizzy#nuvi#violentbitingbiscuits#envuzi#vuzin#nvuzi#thank you to the person that made we aware of all the different varients of these threes ship name sdlkfjsdf#kinda in love w/ nvuzi cuz it doesnt look good as a word but it funnier to me cuz of that dslkfjsdf
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MHA ships and the "All Might Blessing"
Save to Win, Win to Save
The All Might doll
The dynamic duo
The one missing AM hoodie of his collection
#you know its gonna be so real when all might is somehow in there-#i am just. partially joking here. ngl.#tgck and koichi x pop where all might isnt exactly there but just his merch is hilarious to me#he influenced so many ppl it even influences their relationships to an insane depth#ok yeah this is just so incredible and insane to me yeah#evelynpr bnha#bnha#mha#my hero academia#izuku midoriya#bakugou katsuki#ochako uraraka#toga himiko#shoto todoroki#tenya iida#koichi haimawari#kazumo haneyama#pop step#bkdk#dkbk#bakudeku#dekubaku#tgck#togachako#todoiida#crawlstep#i think thats that their ship name should be lmao#do i even really ship them? honestly not that much but theyre like. canon anyway so i cant do much abt that#its alright rlly
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the best part of rvb is when they refer to tex by he/him pronouns for like 2 episodes and church just rolls with it
#im ignoring the part where after church says she everyone freaks out bc shes a girl thats not canon. to me.#they're just like “he's so badass i can't believe he stole your girlfriend church he's so cool” and church is just like yeah ok sure#he was playing the pronoun game just thinking “did she change her pronouns???”#bisexual church has been canon from day 1 fight me about it#rvb#red vs blue#agent texas#leonard church#rvb chex
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heathcliff is it okay/normal if our evil mirror selves are doing um. something
#ishmael lcb#heathcliff lcb#limbus company#ishcliff#heathmael#ok yeah thats what im saying. untapped toxic yuri potential.#i am just shoving them together liek dolls but you understand......#i think altcliffs self loathing is so strong he would be such an easy target for ahabmaels thing sorry#if the world is against toxic yuri then i am against the world...#canto vi spoilers#<- i guess?
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they should get to kill each other at least twice .i think
#gravity falls#stanford pines#stanley pines#lg doodles#i drew this a few days ago but im so tired after work ngl . sittingnin bed like =__= ..#and im visiting family this weekend so idek if ill get to it until next weekend#but ya i love them i loge them so much#i love the tension in atots right after stanford comes back#and hes like writing sll this shit ab stan in the journal#while learning that he stole his identity and so on and stans like hey so i did this rly selfless thing for u can you at least#acknowledge it and they r just stewing in their own anger 😭#actually i love their dynamic so much . the arguing as they mimic each other 1:1 and rhe animosity and#ykw im gna make another post but the grammar stanley scene is my favorite#magbe its not post worthy nvm idc but thats probably one of my fav interactions in the whole series#its so stupid that u know its real HELPPlike yeah that rly isnjust how it is . in fact ive done more over less 🫶#HAHAHAHAH#ugh.love . lovee i wish#i dont think gf needs a continuation im totally in the 2 season boat here#but if they ever did a post series stan and ford exploration ohhh believe . trust tht i would not shut up ab it ever#i want to see them talk so bad . im so greedy bc i feel like they didnt talk enough in the series bc im partial 2 them i just want them in#everything .#i think their personalities are so fun esp bc ford isnt the annoying nerd archetype i like that hes a cocky bitch#and i like that stan is an equally cocky bitch and they both have too much pride that they butt heads over literally everythjng#but they also recognize how ridiculous it all is like 😭. even when theyre fighting over the journal they both r like ok pause r u ok#hmm.. so many ppl here capture their dynamic well too.😭at least the people who dont generalize either into a single personality trait yk#imso tired im tired#but guys i love talking ab ford and stan theybr so everything to me in ways i dnt think incould ever articulate like u see them and u just g#get it . ugh. turning my head and passing out . ford is so funny hes so stupid i love him i cant bekieve i was a ford hater im sorry ive#atoned im changed im a changed oerson i didnt realize the magnitude of his serve .but stanley as my day 1 will never change . just know .(k#idk if anyonf ever reads this fsr down but if u r here say cheesee📸📸
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Q: juno why havent you been posting art
A: I got really into dc comics and its been the only thing I can think about. sorry! blame my friends
(as one image under the cut)
#whoops!#i dont control the hyperfixation the hyperfixation controls me#anyways if anyone wants to hear me sob about cass cain. i’ll do it#between cass and New Beloved Oc Killshot i’ve been drawing a lot of asl and honestly its really fun#i think im gonna try to learn it#my art#dc comics#dc#i don’t actually know how to tag these guys#batfam#? idk#barbara gordon#duke thomas#cassandra cain#cass cain#damian wayne#damian al ghul#tim drake#steph brown#stephanie brown#jason todd#dick grayson#yeah thats good enough#anyways peep my headcannons#dc take notes you CAN give characters noticeable melanin its ok
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meet cassian :]
close ups and more info under the cut!
gloomiest guy you’ll ever meet
pathetic loser
he’s an artist
comes from a rich family
he barely leaves his house, he stays inside a LOOOOOT
insane attachment issues
clingy and dependant yandere
he guilt trips a lot (isn’t really aware of it lmao) can be really manipulative without trying unfortunately
texts you constantly but if you don’t answer back in like 5 minutes he starts freaking out
sometimes he’s normal enough but if you take too long he WILL lose it
doesn't like it when you talk to other people, why can't you just talk to him? is he not good enough for you? what's so interesting about other people anyway?
he hates stairs (he's fallen down and up the stairs WAYYY too many times)
shy (lmao ok) and introverted (has a really hard time talking to people)
has a mascot! (his name is PopUp :] he made him for a school project and just ended up liking him a lot lol)
sopping wet cat
don’t be mean to him, he doesn’t like it, even as a joke
doesn’t get much social interaction cause he stays inside a lot
WAYYYY more comfortable texting, he’s like a totally different person when you’re texting him
spams a lot. like a lot
used to be a lot more outgoing and social
wishes you could be by his side 24/7
he’s sad a lot of the time
feels unloved, please shower him in love
really pessimistic when it comes to himself
he’s really passionate about art
you and art are the two things that make him extremely happy
if you thought nox was tired, meet cassian! he has an even worse sleeping schedule than nox
he’ll do ANYTHING to keep you by his side
so he can and will kidnap you! lol!
is also a stalker… great..!
has probably installed a camera somewhere in your room (um??)
you’re probably one of the only people that can convince him to leave his room
really loves shoujo manga, has fantasized about being the perfect male lead for you (he really wants a romance like that, only with you)
he's a huge romantic, he wants the two of you to have a happy life together
so please don’t leave him. please
takes a lot of walks at night, don’t worry he doesn’t spend ALL of his time inside (he wishes he could tho.)
he wants to have his happy ending with you <3
#num draws#cassian posting#<- hehe#yandere oc#male yandere#yandere male#oc art#yandere#original character#digital art#guys meet my sopping wet cat of an oc! i love him dearly!#also. i think i said this before but i put a lot of my own traits into my ocs#this fucker has the most of my traits. i wonder what that says about me#NONE OF THE YANDERE STUFF THO THATS ALL HIM!#i wanted to include more info but if i do ill just keep going and going and going and i dont think anyone is gonna read all that anyway </3#btw PopUp is a character that i made for a school project so yeah he's stealing him from me (and im ok w that. was supposed to happen lol)#i mean ive shown PopUp on the blog before just didn't tag it (bc i was just yapping and complaining about my project.)#this is my first time posting a full body (and like its the first one ive drawn in a while) pls be kind. im so scared to post this.#i worked really really hard on this so im excited to share this with you!#also this is my 1000th post. hell.#i still need to add him to the relationship chart n everything.#also i think ill do proper ref sheets for them bc. i cant just leave them as busts.#and ill rework rowan's too bc he deserves my love
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you open my Super Important Documents and its just pictures of charles xavier
#xmen#mcu#xmen movies#xmen first class#charles xavier#professor x#snap sketches#todays schedule has been ruined by my ever occurring need to practice drawing movie charles its horrendous#i started this sheet last night but then i kept adding to it and i keep wanting to add to it but i MUST stop myself#in an ideal world i get paid to draw charles xavier and erik lehnsherr but no i live in this baka society#sleepless charles WAS inspired by me starting this at 1AM and forcing myself to sleep at 4AM#and then here i am picking i up still later .... i need professional help i fear but i aint got time for that#NEVERTHELESS I THINK IT GOT IT NOW. I THINK IM OK. i think i know how i wanna go bout drawing him now ...#chat can i confess that like. .5% of the reason i barely draw FC charles i because of his hair#for some reason some demonic entity prevents me from drawing it easily i am in STRUGGLE CITY#the only thing that gets me is that whenever i draw him i can only think of the likes of a disney prince but man thems the strokes ig#i also drew a quick dark phoenix charles but i figured id just keep this first class oriented#anything else i want to say ? uh. hm. its funny i never do any of these sheets for erik#genuinely On My Life made One (1) sheet and was like 'no yeah i got it. i got it down'#literally not my fault his head is So Shaped and defined but anyways. this aint about him.#i mean it could be. i still wanna do a doodle page concentrated on drawing how his powers show#more specifically how do i wanna draw the glow cause i cant decide on it ... also i wanna draw the 'levels' ...#but thats for another time. for right now i should probably eat i havent eaten all day#bye bye !!!!!! here's to hoping i draw something thats not a doodle sheet one of these days
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thinking about orvs metatextual engagement with its genre and specifically how that interacts with its women again. kim dokja is a self insert for the reader - what he thinks is largely meant to represent what we think, especially in the beginning before sing shong really fleshes out his character. kim dokja sees the world through tropes, directly acknowledging the genre around him and the cliches we expect e.g. the overpowered mc, the scheming villain, the beautiful heroine.
but a major part of his arc is deconstructing this reductionist view of the world in a way that parallels the author's deconstruction of the genre, and that plays really well with the way orv writes women. yoo sangah is perhaps the best exanple - shes introduced as the heroine, a one-dimensional pretty girl who in any other novel would become kim dokja's love interest. but the authors allow her to be her own character, directly challenging the stereotype of the heroine and calling attention to the genre's typical lack of depth for such a character. i think this undercurrent plays in the background often but really comes to the forefront when yoo sangah reminds kim dokja of her putting pepper in their bosses' coffee, a memory kim dokja had supressed because it didn't fit with the pretty girl persona he made for her.
i interpret that moment as yoo sangah pushing her way out of the mold of heroine often found in these stories, demanding a depth be added to her character, asking kim dokja - and thus the reader - to see her in her entirety, to see the heroine archetype for what she could be. orv is at all times in conversation with its genre, and its simultaneous writing of female characters with agency and depth and acknowledgement of the tropes these women are expected to fulfill is undeniably a part of that. and its a part i enjoy. most of the time.
#ok trigger warning for discussion of sa in the tags#ive been thinking about this in context with my discomfort with sa in orv specifically#i think its sort of related to this i think sa happens in orv not because sing shong is at all interested#in exploring that topic or discussing its place in this genre#i think its one of those things that 'happens because it happens' if that makes sense#and like i dont blame sing shong for not wanting to explore that topic#but i think it does stand out to me#especially in contrast with orvs usual depth and it's willingness to engage with heavier topics#like its implied that if kim dokja wouldn't have saved her han sooyoung would have been sexually assaulted possibly to DEATH!!!#and its so brushed over she never expresses any real feelings about it#honestly im just rambling in here but like. yeah.#thats why we have tags babyyyytt#anyway. coughs.#orv#omniscient reader's viewpoint
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prohibitedwish enemies to lovers but prismo is into scarab in the enemies part just as much as in the lovers part
refs
btw i never watched the original souce material of any of these so dont read too deep into it, i just found them outta context on pinterest and thought "damn thats them" and passed out and woke up with this
#prohibitedwish#prismo#prismo the wishmaster#scarab#scarab the god auditor#fionna and cake#adventure time: fionna & cake#fanart#arkos draws#prismo's taste in men did a 180 after jake#god he's such a bottom#he thinks scarab's anger is the hottest thing ever#rip him fr#what a freak (lovingly)#they deserve each other#ok im done i just needed to get these out of my system#me trying to draw something thats been on my mind for literal months: hmmm maybe tomorrow#also me immediatedly after: [drops everything im doing to badly draw these]#i dont control the hyperfixation#yeah the one thats been on my mind for months is the cowboy one#yall are gonna know what im talking abt#hopefully soon
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(regular disclaimer that I will exaggerate big feelings for effect but at the end of the day this is fandom and in the grand scheme of things Just Ain't That Serious good? good)
okok look while I am obviously SOOO into where Arcane went with the Machine/Arcane Herald, I can get why gamers who liked og LoL Viktor would be Big Annoyed at him being totally retconned and overhauled in game. That is undeniably a totally different guy there and yeah it would be shitty to have the guy you like completely swapped out. I can especially get it if they liked the mechanical cyborg engineering aspects of his character!
BU T I keep seeing iterations of "he didn't choose anything for himself he just had things happen to him" or "he just went mystic. he used to be someone who used his genius to remake himself and now he just meditated himself into a wizard" and I am so so down to meet in the pit on those takes!! I get people not liking the less mechanical aspects of him but hhhhhhohmygod do not be taking my guys agency and genius down like that
Yes the initial full fusing with the hexcore is something that happened to him, that someone who loved him maybe too much did to him (almost like Arcane has themes of people being launched down dark paths by things that happen to them beyond their control hMmMmmmmmm!!!) And btw I still hold that while his brain got changed by trauma (bc trauma DOES THAT) and the hexcore helped amplify and empower him leaning into his worst traits, after Jayce forced that initial fusion everything Viktor did was a choice.
But also!! Jayce used Viktor's notes. Viktor was the one who went down and got shimmer, who lied and experimented in secret. He stumbled into noticing the hexcore responding to biological material but then he pursued that avenue (because LIFE is a lot of stumbling into things and then deciding what to do from there), figured out what interdisciplinary collaborations he needed to make, figured out on his FIRST TRY what runes he would need to put where.
And while they don't lean into the mechanical engineering genius as much as the OG Viktor like...guys that's a software engineer with a big scoop of magic theorist on top of it (who then started a pivot into biomechanical arcane theory like THAT). He made a magic AI! Don't go telling me he didn't use his genius to become the Arcane Herald when he made a magic AI and then I got to watch the hexclaw grabbing and programming runes into spells like the coolest shit ever!!
That man figured out how to make Jayce's ideas into reality. He then used the scant knowledge of the arcane that still exists to figure out and recreate, using technology, what mages do by instinct. He made a MAGIC AI HOLY SHIT. Jayce is STILL referencing Viktor's rune theories to figure out the anomaly!!
He did not use the same type of genius to become the same type of Herald, but my guy invented being a technomancer so hard that he turned himself into a magical supercomputer and was so good at THAT that he made himself a robowizard god and I will not be hearing anything belittling how nuts that is!!
#arcane#arcane spoilers#arcane meta#i get being unhappy that they did retcon him so hardcore!! i just! get annoyed at comments acting like he didnt make himself!!#'he had help from singed and jayce' yeah science is at its best when its collaborative!!!!!!#thats how it works!!!!#ok fine if you think he was controlled by the hexcore yeah that ruins any agency but good thing i dont think that!!!#viktor arcane#Viktor meta#he turned himself into a wizard using software engineering and theoretical physics and if you dont think thats the raddest shit#then idk i guess we all have different ways to interpret media but!! i think youre wrong!! so MLEH
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i love it when a tv show has lows that are so low you're so ashamed to ever show it to anyone ever but then highs that melt your brain a bit, like, "good fucking god, this is genuinely such an astounding piece of craftmanship... my perception of the medium, and perhaps of myself, has been challenged/changed in 40 minutes" but you cant even express that to ppl without feeling like youre fucking deranged bc my god the lows .....
#Egg.txt#sorry i saw gar watched Hush recently and like#my god thats such a good episode of television . like sincerely fucking solid. like damn man.#and theres other eps of buffy i'd rank among that i.e a certain s5 episode that just still gives me chills to think about#but this also goes for trek + doctor who + farscape + and any and every lame little campy show out there#that just needs to fuck your head wide open sometimes#maybe that why i have enjoyed bsg but i havent like fucking Melded with it yet because its highs and its lows are both there but it doesnt#ever touch the extremes of either#i need something so so bad and so so good at once that makes mefeel like im insane#god i might go rewatch some tos soon#but yeah ok abt bsg maybe its alsojust#laccking a sincerity to it sometimes#and not just in how its a darker/grittier#but just in general i feel like .........hm. idk..#let me ponder
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