#yeah do we wanna talk about the implications of doing that as an android

[shepscapades]

@cringe-control I wish you could see the look on my face right now

[the-hidden-writer]

And Into The Fire

Chapter 6: Robo-bonding

Summary: Months after the Mitchells saved the world, Linda gets a phone call asking if she’s seen two defective Pal MAX bots. Powerful people are after Eric and Deborabot 5000, and it’s up to the Mitchells to protect them.

Check reblogs for AO3 link!

Robo-bonding

Rick usually loved the sound of crickets at night. On camping trips, he’d make it his mission to get his family to sit outside and appreciate them for at least one night. Truly, the aura of peace and serenity they brought was unmatched.

But now, he’d give anything for them to shut up and stop adding to the awkward atmosphere.

It was their first stop after a full day’s worth of driving. The route to Silicon Valley would take at least two days and the Mitchells had decided to break the journey.

Usually they’d stop at a motel for the night, but ever since they’d technically been harboring fugitives that was no longer an option. Or at least that was the case for the moment, since Rick was happy to leave the bots in the car overnight as long as they were both awake and feeling responsible.

His wife and son were currently in the backseat together, curled up closely against one another as they slept. Monchi was snoring away on his back beside them. Rick had quickly pulled out his camera and snagged a quick photo of the heartwarming sight.

They’d put Eric (actually, Deborahbot had since he was much too heavy for any of them to lift) into the trunk. Deborahbot himself had sat in silence next to his robot friend for most of that first stretch of the journey. He’d only spoken when Linda had asked him directly if he was alright, and once again when the family were saying goodnight to each other.

But when it was clear that Deborahbot wasn’t going to sleep (or go into rest-mode or whatever those robots did) when everyone else was, Rick had listened to his inner Linda and asked him to join him in the front.

Even without his wife’s guidance, Rick knew deep down that it wasn’t healthy to not take a break from watching his brother like a hawk.

So that’s where they were. Rick sitting in the driver’s seat, Deborah sitting in the passenger’s seat, and between them only the crickets had something to say.

“So, uh,” Rick eventually began in a low voice, knowing that the android wouldn’t start a conversation himself, “this is all kinda sudden.”

Deborahbot didn’t reply.

“...Right.” Rick was at a genuine loss for words. He’d obviously talked to the bots before, but never really talked to them. They came as a pair and were always sort of doing their own thing. You could guide them and give them instructions and stuff, sure, but they only really got into deep conversations with each other or maybe sometimes Linda. And even then, it was Eric that tended to do most of the talking.

“It must be hard, huh?”

Deborahbot did not lower his voice when he replied. “What do you mean?”

“SHHH!” Rick pointed at his sleeping family.

Deborahbot 5000 hung his head slightly. “Apologies, Mother’s Husband.”

“No no, you’re good.” Rick wished he’d stop calling him that, though he couldn’t think of an alternative.

“But I mean, um…” he continued. “You bots never leave each other’s side. It must be tough with him gone.”

“But he is not gone.” Deborah said. “He is in the trunk.”

Rick sighed. “That’s not what I…”

The problem with robots is that they weren’t great with picking up on subtext. But to be fair, neither were the Mitchell family.

“Still, you’re worried, right? About him? Heck, even I’m worried and I barely know you guys. I can’t imagine how you must be feeling. If you do... feel.”

There was a short pause. Rick had never realised that robots needed thinking time. Or maybe it was just a defective robot thing.

“I am worried about us, yes.”

Us..?

“Aw shoot I totally forgot they’re after you too!” Rick exclaimed quietly. “Have you had any more attacks since, or..?”

Deborahbot turned his head to face forward before answering. As far as Rick could tell, he didn’t have any cameras on the side of his head so the gesture must have just been for dramatic effect. “Not since this morning. Now that my brother is turned off, they can access him without resistance.”

Deborah said it so casually that Rick almost missed the implication of the words.

“Wait, wait wait wait, hold on,” he said as he shuffled to face Deborahbot better, “what does that mean? You mean they can still get to him when he’s like this? They’re, what, doing stuff to him as we speak?”

“Yes.” Deborahbot answered bluntly.

This was bad. All this time, Rick had assumed that the reason Eric was switched off was to stop Pal Labs from hacking him (or whatever the technical term was). But if that just made it easier for them…

“So then why are we even doing this?” He asked, his voice raising a little. “If he’s just gonna get mind-controlled anyway, why are we taking you guys right to them?!”

Deborahbot’s head turned to face him again. “We are going to ask them to stop.” He said it firmly but there was an edge of doubt creeping into his voice.

“But that was to stop them before they took over Eric, wasn’t it? What if they can’t change back what they’ve already done or something? It might already be too late- I don’t know how this works!”

“Wh-What if…” Deborahbot’s voice was barely audible.

“Yeah, man, what if?!” Rick whispered angrily. “You should’ve thought about this beforehand! We should’ve thought about it before we went along with this spontaneous plan!”

“What if…”

It was then that Rick realised what he’d said and who he’d said it to.

“Oh, Deborah, I-”

“What if they delete his memory?” Deborahbot started to speak faster. “What if they reset him? What if they fix him? What if they break him completely? What if-”

“Deborah…”

This was a mistake. Rick shouldn’t have brought it up, or at least not in front of the poor android. The two were like twins, practically joined at the hip, and were so childish at times that catastrophizing in front of one of them regarding the other was probably the worst thing he could've done. Even though his own concerns about Eric were very real and genuine, Deborahbot didn’t need to hear them.

It had taken 18 years to start getting things right with Katie. He wanted to have another chance to get it right with the bots.

“Listen, that’s not what’s happening.” Rick said, putting a lot of effort into sounding as convincing as possible. “They probably just want you guys back. But once we get there and show ‘em you’re harmless, they’ll let you go! Don’t listen to what I said, you know how I get angry for no reason, haha.”

Deborahbot seemed to think it over. Sometimes, Rick wished that they had proper faces so that he could gauge their expressions properly. It would make his life a lot easier.

At some point during that conversation, the crickets had stopped chirping. He hadn’t even noticed.

“...Do you really think so, Mother’s Husband?”

Rick smiled reassuringly. “‘Course I do, Deb.”

They sat in silence for a few minutes. Rick sincerely hoped that he’d mended the pit of fear he’d opened within Deborahbot. It was funny, the rift that had once been between him and Katie was caused by technology. Now he was trying to fix a rift with a piece of technology itself.

Deborahbot seemed content to just sit in silence like that for the rest of the night, but Rick wanted to get some sleep.

He nodded toward the trunk. “Hey, you might wanna get some rest. Don’t stay up all night thinking about this.”

“But-”

“Ah ah, no buts.” Rick waggled his finger. “That’s an order.”

“Ok!”

Dangit, for a moment there it had felt so much like he was talking to another human being that he’d completely forgotten to mind his language. He didn’t want it to seem like he was forcing him.

Deborahbot had already opened the door to move back into the trunk with Eric. "Goodnight, Mother's Husband."

“Deborah! Before you go-” Deborah stopped mid-motion to listen to him- “maybe cut it out with the whole ‘Mother’s Husband’ thing.”

Rick couldn’t believe he was about to do this. It was a step that Linda wanted him to take but he’d never quite felt ready for. But the bots needed family now more than ever, and who else was going to give it to them?

“Just call me ‘Dad’.”

Deborahbot cocked his head for a second (long enough for Rick to consider backtracking) before he exited the car and stood up straight.

“Goodnight, Dad.”

Comments make my day! :)

[unproduciblesmackdown]

also i’ve been mulling over the “we’re Living ex machina!!!!” line and like, it still doesn’t make sense Really, but here’s my Afternoon Musings i guess

i’ve only actually seen ex machina once like 3 years ago but as i remember it goes a little something like This: some rando white-collar programmer guy has like, won a contest where the prize is to go hang out for maybe a few days or a week or so with this ~visionary genius~ tech dude played by oscar isaac at oscar isaac tech dude’s off-the-grid reclusive mansion or whatever.......i thiiiink the Protag Programmer won b/c his programming submission was Really Good but also maybe there’s a [randomly selected] element to it, or maybe we Think it was partly random selection but then learn it was actually All “yeah i chose you b/c your coding was the Best,” idk. doesn’t really matter but anyway yeah protag guy gets helicoptered in to the oscar isaac genius bro’s secret mansion 

oscar isaac soon reveals he has this advanced ai android whomst he wants the Protagonist to study / turing test, and the protagonist does that, but during one Conversation Session with this android (who is named ava i think? and designed to Look Like a Woman oo) like the lights turn off and ava-i-think informs the protagonist she’s found a Weakness in the mansion’s security system and hackt it so that the power (and thus the Security / Monitoring Systems) shut down for a minute like this but could feasibly be thought of as a glitch and anyways she’s like yeah i have feelings and thoughts and i want to Not Be Trapped here, ya gotta help me out here buddy, and then yknow ooh the systems come back on, oscar isaac can Observe them again, intrigue.....tl;dr protag and ava keep having these short secret convos and Do plan to break her out, there’s this dramatic moment where oscar isaac (who’s natch been acting weirder and more erratic as the plot unfolds) confronts the protag after the protag has just like, tried to get him blackout smashed by Hanging Out With Him lmfao and oscar isaac is like “ooh i knew you were planning to break her out, i’m gonna stop you guys though haha pwned” but then oh further twist, turns out ava and protag Knew that was the case and were thinking one step ahead and idk but yeah they break her out and oscar isaac dies but ooh further twist!!! ava locks the protag (or well, just Does Not Unlock, As Planned) in some room and leaves the mansion and gets on the Helicopter meant to take the protag back to wherever after the planned end of his stay. and the protag is just stuck there b/c everyone else is dead and presumably he dies as ava gets to exist in the outside world now, idk, we don’t need ex machina 2 where he’s escaped or smthing lmao

and i do NOT get what winston is comparing their situation to lmfao. like, oh rian is like an advanced ai android??? if anything, her being the more like ~true believer in High Finance as a means of socially beneficial effect~ vs winston like, having the supposedly cutthroat and cold Math approach would make Him more of the ~oh no more a robot than a person~ (though i think it’s Ambiguous whether we wanna judge ava as more Scary Bad or Sympathetic).........you can’t even really make the connection that “oh no we’re being deliberately Replaced!!” b/c if winston is [protag programmer rando] and rian is [ava] and wendy is, i guess oscar isaac then, uhhhh oscar isaac most definitely did Not intend to ~replace~ the protag with ava, he very much wanted her trapped in his mansion still........and the protagonist Only got “replaced” by ava in the sense that she took his place on the helicopter out of the reclusive secret mansion. i really doubt she planned to, or would even be able to, like take over his identity/life beyond that.....certainly not his job lol like, coworkers are gonna notice you’re a different person, there was no implication the androids can like oh shapeshift their appearance or whatever, and no implications about what ava even intended to do in the Outside World which is kind of bemusing b/c like, what of the Practical Questions of being an android and needing whatever Fuel Source a robot does, idk that might’ve been addressed or smthing like “oh yeah they can just Eat,” also she clearly does not Trust People considering her only company was evil oscar isaac creator and she wasn’t interested in bringing the protag along, plus yknow the fact that she Did deliberately manipulate the protag into thinking that she wanted to escape into the world With him........but not like i guess she has any choice for any other world to escape into but the one with all the people where she pretends to be an organic human

like there is just NO point of comparison where these situations line up unless you get soooooooo like broad strokes about ex machina that you’d do better to compare your experience to Anything else lmao. like, does winston think she’s some like, ideal advanced version of him?? like you might consider a crafted AI android to be?? i don’t know but i mean i think we have a more feasible explanation for why he’s so Insistent about this totally being Ex Machina, if only b/c as a straightforward comparison i swear to god it doesn’t work lmfao None of these points line up at all with any significance that’s worth insisting on

given that winston’s Apparently Canonically meant to be crushing on rian, and we have his example of ribbing her by calling her “gal gadot’s quirky sister” which is like, okay so the dunk is “you look similar to this famous a-lister who everyone thinks is pretty” and “also you’re quirky, boom” like, i think that could easily be meant as like, a Tell that winston already ~likes~ her.............aaaand it’s also somewhat ~ambiguous~ but i mean i think it’s safe to say that in Ex Machina you may understand the protag as having Fallen For the ai android lady. so maybe we can Understand this invocation of ex machina as being like “ooh person meant to replace me is Attractive but ultimately i think this Overall Situation is a bad thing i shouldn’t feel this way i resent it” like, a bit of a Reach, but honestly it’s way more of a reach to think about applying anything else about this scenario to ex machina, so i could v much believe that the thought that went behind writing this is once again, like, “okay winston’s invoking one thing on the surface level here, but simultaneously he’s already (inadvertently probably) acknowledging like oh also i have a crush on her already”

between this episode seeming to be Setup and the [winston has a Canon crush] and the fact that it probably seems like They Will Fuck A Nonzero Number Of Times or Make Out At Least But It’s Billions So, Might Get A Humorous Cut To [Postcoital] Or A Scene Where They Arrive At Work Together Short Of Breath With Messy Hair  And Hickies And Winston’s Got A Hoodie W/ “Property Of Rian” On It Until He Goes "Oh Shit Woops” And Hands It To Her And She’s Like “Oh Btw You Forgot Your Glasses.....Uh You Left Them Here On Your Desk Yesterday I Mean Of Course” And Hands Them To Him And An Unnamed Character Stands Up And Asks “Daily Poll: Who Had Sex With A Coworker Last Night” And Rian And Winston Raise Their Hands Before Going “Oh Wait” And Lowering Them With A Shake Of The Head And A Nervous Cough and i’m exaggerating but you know, the equivalent of the billions writing saying “wwinnnk” at us. i am fine with them having an unsolemn like, quasi-rivals-to-lovers (or -And-lovers) dynamic, even with it being a bit messy in like, still an overall Fun way, where yknow it doesn’t have to be peak epic romance cuz a) that’s just Always true and yet it can still be overall an okay thing even if they don’t quite get it together / mostly just trade sparks and sometimes hook up and b) idk seems like mayybe rian’s character isn’t meant to go beyond this season, so, an inherent limit there if true

i’m like Apologetic for being like “already i like their dynamic even as Romantique and it’s kinda cute and fun and i’m willing to continue to be engaged w/ this as long as the writing doesn’t completely fuck it up” lmao like, i guess i Did inadvertently give myself time to prepare for this exact eventuality b/c of wondering if this exact character would have A Thing w/ winston whenever she showed up and even if i was like “haha the character could show up Anywhere and do Anything and what are the odds, right” i was also like “hmm but i’m going to really think about it though” like, as always, didn’t think i was cassandraing that hard, but truly did do it 4x03 style where everyone else can be like “you never [made the text post or gave any indication you were thinking about “what if whoever she plays and winston have some kind of romance thing going on”]” and i can go “i only thought it but didn’t say it....doesn’t count” but well. i did think it lmao and why would i make it up.......sorry i had such a head start on Getting More Used To This Notion.......some crimes can never be forgiven.meme.......

anyways natch “intense horrible passionate” seems a little foreboding but maybe she was talking about it relative to [any Normal show] rather than the standards we’re used to on billions, where this was all but a Meet Cute, and a kind of quasi coworker rivalry where nobody’s taking it *that* deeply seriously and they also seem to mutually like each other by the end of 5x05 already so how not-amicable can it get. and re: Intense like, maybe the writing in future episodes will totally upend this, but i’d say rian and winston in 5x05, even when “clashing,” was like damn near laidback and chill. neither of them seem at all that pressed, but maybe even a sorta-playful Friendly Rivalry is more “intense” than, say, a dynamic that involves no rivalry at all. imo “Passionate” is just like, okay, so they’ll fuck or at least make out? sure. not sure what to make of “horrible” lmfao maybe again it’s addressing like “this is a lil messy and they’re kinda rivals!!!” like, certainly not an ideal start, except by billions standards it IS weirdly great. rian seeming good-naturedly amused by winston is something we didn’t get from his longtime-coworkers until like, now, sort of, and still not to the degree that anyone has smiled at him as many times as rian did in like that course of [1 min long First Scene Together] wherein also winston always gets off to a way worse start with people lmao............like everything about this seems Way Better And More Dialed Back And Grounded than usual, actually. but it’s that like, point of reference of “what’s Usual for winston and, more broadly, Billions” that maybe explains this weirdly strong language when all in 5x05 seemed chill actually

anyways like i said Sorry For Already Liking Rian/Winston This Much with my head start and all where like, i’m even tentatively looking forward to seeing where this goes, by “tentative” i also mean going [”i’ll kill you” the office.jpg] at billions where i am fully aware that maybe where this goes *is* a mess and not in like, just kind of a fun, non-melodramatic, not-treated-like-a-total-joke-but-also-not-that-big-a-deal way, where 5x05 could seem like Those Halcyon Days b/c everything from here out just devolves into an unappealing disaster.......but this is an unexpectedly solid start imo and like. even if this doesn’t become like this epic romance where they officially date and if rian does eventually depart the show by the end of the season, it can still just be Enjoyable and Fun for the characters and, god forbid, the viewers, where like, you don’t have to demand we be desperately invested with our entire life in this deadly serious heartwrenching epic romance, they can just kind of mess around and enjoy having a mutual attraction w/ this mathy rivalry and etc and it’s neither a tragedy of “the greatest love story of all time torn asunder” Or, truly god forbid,” this is a Whole Mess In A Bad Way b/c winston’s involved and ugh who could Really like him, being at all romantically entangled is an embarrassing mistake surely, ew cringe we hate him............like, cautiously optimistic in how like i always say that a Romantic Arc is just an easy/efficient way to develop both characters and it could certainly humanize winston an ounce in a show that treats him more like a walking algorithmic plot device and the thoughts of any viewers but us are limited to “winston annoying” basically........the show doesn’t seem to treat rian as a joke, so it seems possible that their mutual Romance in whatever way it unfolds could also be Not A Joke, which means winston’s part in it isn’t a joke, so that’s Some aspect of him for people to take seriously, for once..........like, the way his apparently-already-official crush played out in 5x05 *was* funny but it also didn’t seem like oh it’s a joke b/c his feelings are a total joke......it might seem that way if this *was* totally unrequited and going nowhere, but i somewhat get the sense that the interest is mutual even by the end of the ep, that didn’t strike me as a “shove off, it could Never Happen” shutdown from rian there, just like, hold off on that for rn maybe cue to rein it in a little, not just yet........anyways lmao i’m like “oh yeah i started this post about the baffling ex machina thing” but yeah the point is i think so far it’s pretty solid and i like it and am cautiously but [relative-to-billions level of Hopeful] about whatever developments we’re surely gonna get b/c it def sounds like this has Not ended with 5x05, but seriously @ billions i swear to god. yes so far the approach to winston’s crush here and even their unfolding mutual dynamique and dare i say, romantic interest, is being handled with an encouraging level of “this is Humorous but the characters / their feelings are not what’s being treated as A Total Joke or anything,” but who knows what will come next, this is billions and you can’t predict anything. fingers crossed about it all, though

[tigerlover16-uk]

If you’re open. For one, japanese polls show fans wanted Yamcha for the tournament. Super had filler mocking Yamcha as a loser who Gohan & Co try to prevent from learning of the tournament. The latest Herms translation on a Q&A for the Anime on why Yamcha wasn’t at the tournament, gave Goku's reason as he(Goku) thought little of Yamcha. I'd call that a dig, personally. If I was writing Super's I wouldn't do stuff things like that as they further divide, anger, or alienate the fandom for Super.

Hmm, okay I see your points there, and it’s understandable that Yamcha fans are upset.

Okay, for one thing though… how do you know the stuff with Yamcha in the saga isn’t Toriyama’s idea? The whole thing with him just expecting to be recruited and going home to wait seems more like an excuse to keep him out of the plot than a dig at the fans. And while I get taking issue with that idea… let’s think about it from a creative standpoint.

The tournament only has ten spots available. Extending the rosters to include more members would put a lot more work on Toriyama, Toyotaro and any other character designers at Toei to come up with that many more characters from other universes, of which this saga basically has close to a hundred new ones.

Each character is there for a reason. Goku and Vegeta can’t not be on the roster. Gohan’s been set up for his comeback for a while, and Piccolo can’t be passed up. Krillin is Goku’s best friend and the strongest earthling, so he has to be there. Android 18 is the only high tier action girl in the Z fighters, and Android 17 was brought back because he’s underdeveloped and hasn’t been seen since his cameo at the end of the Buu saga. So this was the perfect opportunity to use him, since this whole tournament setting benefits from teamwork between the warriors. Majin Buu was initially chosen to fill out a spot because he’s the most powerful non-saiyan. Master Roshi is on the roster because a running theme of this saga seems to involve experience and skill at fighting being often more valuable than raw power, and master Roshi is the wise old master character. He fits with that better than anyone else.

Tien is really the only one without a clearly definited role or reason for being here other than that he’s strong and fans love him. His role from what we’ve seen and the synopsis for the next episode seems to mainly be about supporting the other characters. A role Yamcha could have easily filled too, but then you’d have Tien fans angry that he was being excluded to service Yamcha, so either character gets the short end of the stick however that played out.

Frieza taking up Majin Buu’s spot seems to be a major plot point for the saga, because Toriyama wouldn’t bring him back again unless he has a good reason. But of course, Toei needed an excuse for why any other character couldn’t have been brought up by the Z fighters when Majin Buu started hibernating, because seriously, that’s a huge risk that’s not worth taking if there’s a better option.

Goten and Trunks were explained away because they’re too young, inexperienced and uncoordinated for this kind of tournament. Not unfounded, given how they handled fighting Majin Buu as Gotenks.

Yamcha though, he was an obvious back up choice for if one of the other characters couldn’t compete, and obviously viewers were going to notice that. And even if he wasn’t written as wanting to get back into fighting, he would never refuse such an offer knowing the universe was at stake.

So an excuse had to be made, since Toriyama wanted Frieza for some yet to be reached plot reason (Notice that character’s like Jaco weren’t even acknowledged and they skipped out on the chance to canonize Pikkon aswell, like some fans wanted).

And there was a way around it. Yamcha had already retired from fighting back at the Cell saga, Goku knows this by now and so wouldn’t expect Yamcha to still be in fighting shape by this time. Keep in mind, back in the Champa saga he initially turned down Vegeta’s suggestion to recruit Gohan, not because he thought he was a bad choice, but because he knew Gohan was rusty and not really a fighter anymore, and they needed someone who could already fight at their best for the tournament. As soon as Goku learned that Gohan had been training with Piccolo and he asked Goku if he could compete, Goku was more than okay with it until the conference thing came up.

Same thing probably would apply to Yamcha in this tournament. Goku didn’t even know who he wanted for the tenth member until Oolong told him Roshi was with Tien. He had no real reason to assume Yamcha would have wanted to join the roster, since he’d been out of fighting so long. And the only chance he would have got to recruit Yamcha was at Bulma’s place, and as soon as the tournament came up Yamcha was all like “Hey, I wanna join too!! But wait, maybe I should wait for them to ask me? Yeah, that’s it, I’ll go home and wait, then turn em down, and then make a grand entrance at the last minute”

It was silly and a bit weird since Yamcha’s not one for showboating usually (Though not necessarily above doing silly things), but it got him out of the way long enough for Goku to recruit a full team and then Frieza. It’s not clear if this whole situation was Toriyama’s or Toei’s idea, but Toriyama was definitely the one to decide the roster and who was going to do what in this saga. So he would have been responsible for Yamcha not competing anyway, so I wouldn’t put the situation above him. Heck, it feels like something he probably thought up on the spot while he was writing the outline, wrote it down real quick and didn’t too hard about it before handing it off to Toei and Toyotaro, who were stuck with it at that point. We’ll know for sure what exactly the situation is when the manga’s a bit further ahead and we see what Toyotaro’s excuse is. If it’s more or less exactly the same, then we can safely say it was Toriyama’s idea and thus not filler by Toei.

Also, where did Gohan or anyone try to hide that the tournament was happening from Yamcha or demean him over it. Goku and co mentioned the tournament was happening right in front of him, that’s what caused him to suddenly run off the way he did. No one ever said he couldn’t be in the tournament, nor did they mock him over it. They just didn’t think to ask him, because again, Goku and the others knew he was supposedly retired and thus didn’t immediately think of him as a candidate any more than they did Videl. Everyone acted pretty normally around him, the only exception being Vegeta showing annoyance when Bulla started crying, but the same thing had just happened when Mr Satan tried to make her laugh so that wasn’t anything against Yamcha. Just a throw away gag.

Oolong is the only character who tried to dance around the subject, and that was when Yamcha directly asked him if the others might recruit him after the roster had already been filled, and Oolong didn’t want to disappoint him. Otherwise, there’s no implication anybody would have turned him down or derided his fighting ability if he had just openly asked about the tournament when he had the chance. They didn’t think twice about having Yamcha play baseball with them, because they all knew he was great at that and he would have been the most useful person to help out.

It’s sad that Yamcha ended up screwing himself out of a place on the team, but that was more due to his own ego, not because any of the other characters thought badly about him. Nothing about his scenes really paints him as pathetic or a loser, just that he had gotten ahead of himself and made a silly mistake.

I don’t think this running gag was meant to deride or attack the character. Otherwise the writers would have had the characters openly mock him a lot more, turn him down when he asked, and have him end up feeling dejected. But he wasn’t especially upset at all when the others left to fight in the tournament. He was sheepish and embarrassed with himself when Puar expressed sympathy for him being left out, and he looked rightfully suspicious about Frieza, but he ultimately laughed it off as one of those things, and when everybody did leave he got serious for a moment and wished them luck, saying that they had to win. Which goes to show that Yamcha has his priorities straight and that the fate of the universe matters more than him getting a chance to strut his stuff.

This entire situation could have definitely been handled better and wasn’t a funny joke, but honestly I don’t get the feeling that Yamcha was being intentionally derided or mocked by the writers. If anything, the joke seems to be that he could have probably avoided the situation he made for himself and got what he wanted if he stopped being silly and just asked Goku directly if he could be on the team. Which, again, dumb joke. Not necessarily an attack at the character, or his fans.

The thing with the Q & A sounds suspicious, I agree, and I can’t really say too much without knowing the full context. It could be just the one person doing the interview giving it his own two cents and not really talking for Toriyama or the writing staff, in which case shame on him. Or maybe the intention was lost, and he’s just meaning that in the sense that Goku didn’t think of Yamcha because he’s been out of the game so long that he’s probably very out of shape, similar to his reasoning with Gohan for the U6 tournament. Which, that’s not too bad, though not exactly fair on Yamcha either. I dunno, feel free to be annoyed with that one.

I get being upset with how Yamcha’s been treated. I’m not really happy with it either, I’d love to see more done with Yamcha because I do love his character, I’m just not offended or angry because I don’t think there’s any intentional disrespect towards him. Just that the writers aren’t sure what to do with his character, since Toriyama clearly isn’t giving them anything for him to do in the main stories. Which, yeah that’s not a good excuse, but it’s one I can live with, and it’s what feels like the case rather than them having it out for the guy.

It’s good to hear that Japanese fans wanted more of Yamcha. Maybe that’ll encourage Toei to push Toriyama to do something with him in the future, or maybe give him his own story’s or character arc in a breather episode or two after this saga wraps up. Maybe finally give him a girlfriend that doesn’t treat him like Bulma did. For all we know, Toei and Toriyama might just not have considered that he had so much support while planning the saga.

Although, a lot of Western fans wanted Cell on the roster instead of Frieza, and that wouldn’t necessarily have been for the better in terms of the story. Sometimes what fans want isn’t always going to be in the best interests of the story. We already had two characters, Krillin and Gohan, who’s had to have character arcs developed about them wanting to pick up martial arts again and get stronger leading into and during the current saga, three if you count Master Roshi given his interaction with Ganos in today’s episode and the “secret training” he’s apparently been doing for a while for years now to be able to fight fairly in the tournament of power.

Having the last remaining character besides Videl who had given up being a martial artist and more active member of the Z fighters, and that might start feeling redundant or pushing things too far, having so many characters suddenly getting stronger again so soon to the level that they can seriously compete with the warriors from the other universes. I mean, look around at how many people are outright angry for some reason that Krillin was able to put up any kind of fight against people at all.

And none of this is to say that leaving Yamcha out and have him play so little a role in Super so far is justified or that you can’t be disappointed and annoyed over it as a fan of the character, or how it’s been handled. Feel free to do so. And you have a point being concerned that this might make the divides in the fandom even worse, though that’s more down to the idiots in the fandom being stupid and fueling their own confirmation biases than anything. Same reason I don’t truly hate TFS for the problems they’ve caused, because at least several members like Kaiserneko acknowledge their bad influence and they never meant to create such levels of toxicity in the fandom. Careless fans who can’t understand that something is a parody are responsible for that.

you have a right to be mad. But personally, I don’t think any of these things are intentionally digs at fans so much as they are ignorance on Toei’s part. Who knows, maybe Toriyama actually has a plan and this thing with Yamcha this saga is actually leading to something down the line, won’t know until we’re a lot further into Super. Things could improve, but it is frustrating the way things are going so far and I don’t blame you for being in a bad mood.

I don’t think the situation’s as bad as you do, but then again maybe I’m just not as passionate about Yamcha as you are and I see things from a different perspective. This is all I can really say on the subject, I’m sure I can’t really do much to change your mind and you do have some good points and reasons to feel the way you do.

Let’s both just hope that things start looking up for Yamcha in the future, and that Toyotaro doesn’t actually have the characters directly insult Yamcha for wanting to compete or something like that when he gets further ahead in the manga. Because honestly with his writing, I wouldn’t put it past him to do exactly what you think the anime is doing.