#yamato era

[shironezuninja]

I grew up with the animated Mulan movie. The first thing that came to my late teenaged mind was that Tengu Shredder had concubines in his palace during the Yamato era.

[uh-oh-its-bird]

There are so many naruto time travel fics out there but what I need SPECIFICALLY is an ANBU era team of Kakashi, Tenzo, Itachi, and Shisui getting flung into the founders era.

Like. Ok just looking from the political side of it that's;

A) 2 very young and VERY powerful Uchiha's (one of which is the future clan head!! Politics!!)

B) A very fucked up baby mokuton user who's still in the middle of being deprogrammed and can totally pass for Senju

C) The free wild card that is Hatake clan lore on top of having a stolen sharingan. On top of *that* him being the team leader of a team of kids who, in the time period context, should both be at eachothers throats and probably not be expected to obey the commands of someone not only from another clan but a way smaller one

Theres SO much potential there!! So many political implications in virtually ALL of the directions!!!!

Yk what as I'm typing this out I'm having ✨️ideas✨️ so let's make some story points to sort those out:

• I think itd be neat to have this happen like. A year? Ish? Before the massacre? So age wise, and full disclaimer I'm referencing Google and Wikipedia rn so I could totally be wrong, I think that's :

Kakashi (18)

Tenzo (17)

Itachi (12)

Shisui (15)

Could be wrong about the ages but honestly it's my world you're just living in it, so.

Then me going totally purely off of my own headcannons, were going to say they came in a about a year before Izuna died and place the founders ages as:

Madara (23)

Hashirama (23)

Izuna (19)

Tobirama (18)

Big fan of Tobirama being the youngest between the 4 but projecting the aura of someone as old as like. Idk, however old Madara is. Very funny to me, 10/10

• I'm personally a big fan of dogteeth kakashi so we're running with that all the way home. Also a huge fan of the "Hatake's are a distant, more feral cousin of Inuzuka clan" hc along with some sprinklings of "back in the day they had a bit of a Reputation(tm) for being a 'lill wild, and everyone generally tries to avoid them. Which isn't too much of a problem because theyre a very small out of the way clan from Iron, they just have a big reputation in contrast to their size.

In more modern times tho, along with (obviously) having dwindled down to a single depressed teenager, they've become a lot tamer over the years due to village life. Kakashi is a Hatake, 100%, but he is NOT up to the standards of this time. Which becomes a bit funny when people see him, go "oh FUCK it's a Hatake" and then start edging slowly towards the door like he's about to rip their throat out with his teeth. Meanwhile he's standing there like 🧍‍♂️"am I that ugly."

Give me a scene where, finally used to this reaction to him from the general shinobi population, the team starts to use it to their advantage.

"Give us the scroll or we'll let the Hatake off the leash to have his fun with you. He's been awfully hungry latley you know, hasn't had fresh meat in days"

Kakashi, feeling kind of stupid, gave his best growl.

It caused an almost immediate, embaressed flush to rise to his face, but he didn't let up. It sounded more like an almost pathetic puppy growl than anything to his ears, but apparently it was enough to convince the trembling enemy nin because he slowly lifted the scroll up in offering.

Wow. Now he couldn't tell if he was embaressed for himself or for this guy.

Probably both to be honest.

• So like. Itachi is the clan heir. That's big. That's important. Let's do something with that.

First off, I had a great time reading this one fic (tho I don't even remember what the fic itself was about now, oops) where a plot point of it was how Sasuke is just a walking stereotype of main house Uchiha. Like people look at him and they don't just go "oh that's an Uchiha." They go "oh fuck that's an UCHIHA Uchiha." He's so fucking painfully, obviously related to the very tippy top of the clan that anyone not blind can tell. It's in the way he looks, it's in the way he talks and treats those around him, it's in the way he fucking holds himself. You look at him and every other stereotype about the Uchiha clan is there in big, bold letters. (On top of that he's also a dead wringer for Izuna, which I'm such a sucker for and desperatley wish people would do more with)

So like let's give that to Itachi here because it's so fun for several reasons.

First off; Sasuke in this is like. Straight up a doppelganger of Izuna, just a few generations apart. They could be twins. Itachi, as I'm sure you are aware, is Sasuke's big brother. So let's take some liberties and say that Itachi could absoloutley pass as a blood sibling to Izuna and Madara.

He is however 12, so we're also going to say that the only people who get to make this connection is anyone who's seen the siblings when they were also at a similar age.

On top of that however he has the 'walking amalgamation of all the stereotypes of the main Uchiha house' so anyone who isn't blind will look at him and assume he's somewhere in the sphere of 'important main house person' tho who really knows how distant the relation may be exactly. No one !! That's who !!!

Second; He's the fucking clan heir!! What the fuck!! This bit would have the most impact after all the messy time travel reveals when things have settled down a bit, so it'll sit in the back pocket for a bit. Save it for some fun shaking up later down the line so we don't run out of all the fun reveals too fast and bore the readers, yk?

When it is brought up tho it'd be fun to maybe have some fucky Itachi and Madara mutual understandings of the way things work.

• So. Madara is like a bit of a scary bed time story to Uchiha children, right? Like. "Ooo make sure you don't get too obsessive or fall too deep into your grief and always stay loyal to the village or you'll end up just like Madara!!"

Something something Uchiha-Village relationships are tense as hell, something something Madara fucking over a lot of the clan with his whole. Everything., Something something scapegoat and old stories, something something 'people have probably been talking a lot more about how "god dammit this all started with Madara" in recent years.'

Now with that in mind let's take a look of what our time travelers think of Madara:

Itachi is a good Konoha soldier. Itachi (as has been very much fucking proven) would rather beat a possible problem before it even exists with a hammer till it dies an ugly bloody death than even RISK it blossoming into a proper problem. Itachi does not like Madara. Itachi personally, quietly thinks they should maybe wait till the village is formed then carefully arrange a little accident for him before he goes off the rails. He, even more quietly, maybe even thinks it would be a kindness. Allow him to be remembered well by the village instead of scorned.

Shisui I think is cautiously optimistic about him. He's the kind of guy who gives the benefit of the doubt, who weighs the options, risk and reward, but includes things like hope and compassion in his calculations. Yes, Madara was a uhh. Thing. That happened. But in every story his big blow up always come from one specific event; Izuna's death. So if they stop that from happening, wouldn't it secure both a better future for them and Madara? The history books never went into detail about Izuna, he doesn't know what he's like, but maybe his involvement in the future, on Konoha's side, could lead to even more profits for them long term. At the end of the day he's not against killing Madara (though to be clear, they are at first operating on trying to avoid all interactions with historical events and return home without touching things) but it'd be nice, to manage to get a happy ending for everyone. Unrealistic maybe, but nice.

Mmmm hear me out actually, maybe Shisui, after interacting with him a bit, finds that Madara reminds him of Itachi too. They definatley both have that "I would do unspeakable things to even dream of my loved just one more time" energy, if you know what I mean

Anyways; Kakashi and Tenzo are both neutral on Madara. Yes, they learned about how he betrayed the village when young just like everyone else, but they weren't getting the bed time stories and "do this and you'll end up just like him" warnings like the Uchiha's. They're possibly leaning into negative but are detached from the situation enough to just go "well he hasn't done it yet and his brother is still alive so he won't any time soon" and be done with it

• Now, on the the total opposite side of the spectrum you have Hashirama and Tobirama. People are brought up in Konoha to fucking IDOLIZE these guys. You can not tell me our team of time travelers wouldn't be at least a little awed to speak with them.

I think Tenzo would be the most wide eyed about Hashirama, both for the baseline "holy shit that's the Shodai Hokage" and also that fun juicy mokuton user imposter syndrome he has going on for him. That guys DNA is inside his body!!! Holy shit wait does that mean if someone did a blood relation test with them he might read as being related to him?? Fuck were gonna pocket that for now but like. Mmmmm potential.

I'd say Itachi is the most hesitant about Tobirama but again, village loyalist, so.

You know what tho maybe Shisui is the most hesitant about him (though still largely positive) he both def grew up looking up to him but can also see the anti-Uchiha policies people inact now with the implications that Tobirama would have approved of it. He doesn't know if he would, but like, he has to wonder.

Kakashi is probably the most normal about them (and also has experience in being close to a hokage (Minato) to know that at the end of the day they are painfully human) Don't get me wrong, he's still in some sort of awe! He might get a little lightheaded at the thought of seeing the God of Shinobi in proper battle, or the possibility to see the famed genius of Tobirama with all the different jutsu's he's invented. You can't tell me Kakashi didn't spend a little extra time reading about him when he was trying to make Chidori. Honestly I'm gonna roll with that and say he had a bit of a phase as a kid where he was a total fan boy. Maybe sprinkle in the good old HalfHatake!Tobirama hc to add some faint daydreams a lonley babykashi had after his father's death, about getting to meet him as family. Like cmon, little genius idolizing and projecting on some big history figure only to find out they're actually related? Can you say potential?

Anyways he did eventually grow out of the phase, probably got unattached to it all and lost interest after the whole "losing everything he loved" bit of his life. And at the end of the day, he doesn't have any real complex personal hang ups on the founders like the others do. Thus, most normal.

• And then my favorite most special boy, Izuna !! He's for sure the one they're all most neutral about. He's not actually taught about in the academy? There's probably some throw away line about him in some history books somewhere, but he died young and was quickly buried by the looming shadow of Konoha. The only real knowledge had about him in modern times is just a vague "Yeah he got killed by Tobirama which lead to peace being made but also lead to Madara losing his shit"

Poor Izuna he's the linchpin for it all but was left an unremarkable footnote of history. My boy deserves so much better

Tenzo doesn't actually even know who he is, that boy got bare minimum education under Danzo and Izuna was NOT included.

Itachi and Shisui mmmaybe have some small little fun fact here or there buried in stories from the older members of the clans but like. It's gonna amount to just "yeah he had a great katon" and thats about it.

I WILL SAY HOWEVER. Itachi sees him and instantly is that one PTSD dog meme. Sasuke is a BABY but holy shit Izuna looks exactly like he'd expect him to grow up as and it's making him FEEL THINGS. Also he's so bratty little brother coded !! He's an entire 7 years older than Itachi but Ifachi keeps fucking up and trying to big brother him it's embaressing.

And ofc Itachi didn't go into the first meeting thinking he'd see some weird older mirror version of his beloved baby brother who he misses and worries about very very much. So like. There's for sure going to be some conflict there. If their first meeting is a scuffle (which it probably will be) I think Itachi would keep hesitating to attack. On full run away mode. Which is probably for the best bc he shouldn't try to fight Izuna anyways honey he's like double your bodyweight and you're strong but you aren't THAT strong.

• Pointing back at both the 'Itachi does not like Madara and has quiet thoughts about how it'd possibly be in everyone's interest to just kill him' and the 'Itachi and Madara quietly bond over being clain head/heir during stressful times (w pressure from the elders especially)

I can see 2 outcomes of a potential bonding conversation with them:

1) They come to understand eachother better.

Madara wants to be on good terms, he looks at this kid and sees one of his brothers eyes and the others quiet determination. He can tell Itachi doesn't like him for some reason, and it's frustrating because he doesn't know why. He wants him to like him. He wants to be able to offer his hand and have it taken. It hurts, to be looked at with such suspicion from a face that has traces of Izuna's.

Meanwhile Itachi . . . Itachi looks at Madara and he sees someone who gets it. Gets it like no one ever has. It scares him. He looks up at this man, this horror story he's been told to fear becoming, and he sees himself. And this realization shakes him. It makes him think, makes him wonder. He's so, so sure of his loyalty to Konoha. More sure than he is of anything else in the world. But . . . But if something happened to Sasuke, if he had to choose—

And maybe it softens something in him too, along with the (honestly healthy) dose of fear. It forms a little crack in his shell, just enough to maybe, maybe let Madara through. Just a hair.

Or 2) we pull one of those "The conversation ends with them agreeing verbally but mentally they're on 2 VERY different notes."

Madara, nodding and looking at Itachi meaningfully: "Yeah it can be hard, but all we can really do is try to make the world a safer place for the ones we love. (To create Konoha, to keep my clan safe. Izuna safe. And now to keep you safe too.)

Itachi, nodding slowly: "Yeah. No matter how hard it is (even though I think I understand you more than anyone else Ive ever met) we have to try to make the world a safer place (by killing you in your sleep once Konoha is formed) for the ones we love (My clan. My village. Sasuke.)"

• Also pointing back at the 'Hatake warring clan era reputation,' the 'Tobirama is half Hatake' and also now pointing at Tobirama's title as the White Demon. Small thing but it'd be neat if there was some small throw away line that the nickname lowkey started in part because of the absoloutley terrifying reputation of the Hatake combined with Tobirama's own Everything(tm) like it just had some influence on how some view him. Give me Uchiha's making dog jokes ab him it'll be funny

• Ok but now the actual plot thoughts. Yeah I know I kept you waiting sorry about that.

So time travel! Probably due to a mission gone wrong. Some ruins or some ancient crumbling scroll that wasn't even supposed to do fucking time travel but was so old and corroded that it somehow managed to transform into a whole other seal by pure bad luck. Or good luck I guess, considering it could have just turned into a nuke.

Our favorite team of disasters are very very alarmed !!! What the fuck !!! Obviously they don't default to thinking time travel, but they immediatley know something is wrong. The landscape has changed, though the big landmarks are still there. The mission was complete anyways with no injuries so they just retreat to Konoha. Only oops !! It's not fucking there!!!

Queue alarm.

Shisui is the first one to suggest time travel because he's quirky like that. And there's a very easy way to confirm this theory.

(Also we're going to say that Konoha's location is a valley a few miles out from the Naka River that borders the Senju / Uchiha territories.)

This is convenient because that verification method involves checking in on where Itachi and Shisui know the old Uchiha compound should rest.

They do it in full stealth mode, the second they saw Konoha was missing Kakashi as team leader decided they'd treat the land as enemy territory. They all agreed ofc, for all they knew this WAS enemy territory now.

And, ofc, yeah!! There's the old Uchiha compound!! Being active!!! There are people there!!!

"What are the odds Fugaku-sama decided to have the clan return to their homeland for ahh, cultural enrichment?" Kakashi asked weakly.

"Time travel." Was the only reply he got from Shisui, whispered reverently as the boy vibrated with excitement on the branch.

Itachi just gave him a look, radiating a level of dissaproving disbelief that no normal 12 year old should be able to make. Kakashi would know, he was that not-normal 12 year old once.

From there they decide a no interference policy. Hands off guys!! They probably debate it tho, like, a good amount. They all have ✨️opinions✨️ except maybe Tenzo who's lowkey still in the middle of trying to learn how to be a person and is following Kakashi's lead 99% of the time. Especially since they're still in mission mode and this is like a super serious discussion and he really does know the least ab the founders overall.

They probably debate the merits of going to Uzushiogakure bc seal help but it's really far and they don't actually have like, just any leverage with them. They already decided not to fuck with the future so it isn't like they can trade secrets and warnings. At least if shit happens here they have some plausible deniability, being, yk, 2 uchiha's and a senju-passing guy with Mokuton. Kakashi's kinda fucked tho in that regard but he isn't going to be doing the party ANY favors with his clan heritage.

Which means it's time to potentially get desperate enough to interact with Tobirama !!! Which will inevitably lead to them bumping into a Uchiha patrol or something!!! I don't know honestly

• Anyways want Hashirama and Tenzo to interact. He has so many issues like holy shit. Let Hashirama give him the hug he deserves. I want him to violently adopt him. New brother acquired!!!

I said before but Tenzo is still reprogramming from ROOT. Let Hashirama impact that! Let him help! They can make flower crowns and photosynthesize together idk

Hashirama would be so happy to have another mokuton user, I think they should be able to sense eachother extra strong and like 'ping' off of eachothers chakra, it'll be fun

▪︎ I'm not thinking toooo hard about power scaling and this is fanfiction so a) don't quote me on this and b) for the love of all that is holy don't take my words as gospel

But for this fic specifically I'm ranking the founders and Team Ro, weakest to strongest (in a clean, fair fight head on w no time to prepare) :

Itachi (he's fucking 12 guys. But also he is like. FRACTIONS under Tenzo and Shisui. If he were 13 I'd let him be above or at the same level but like. He's 12. Cmon.)

Tenzo - Shisui (they're like JUST under the next 2 tho like seconds behind)

Izuna - Tobirama

Kakashi ( by the skin of his fucking teeth and the advantage that is his stupid amount of jutsu's and lack of self preservation)

Madara - Hashirama

And again that's not counting like. The specific situations, time given to prepare, potential dirty tricks they could play (I think the Konoha tricks would play a fraction dirtier than the others, who are slightly more used to big open battles vs the ANBU squad who does all sorts of shit in all sorts of places) plus like. Mental state and team ups.

Tenzo or Shisui couldn't take down Izuna or Tobirama but if they teamed up I'd allow it. Kakashi would get his ass kicked by Hashirama or Madara but he could survive a minutes longer than the others would

Itachi is doing his best

But like

He's 12 guys

I love him and he is terrifyingly competent but he won't win 1 on 1 with anyone unless he has some sort of advantage. Minus Shisui and Tenzo who he does have the advantage of regularly fighting, so.

• I think they do get to go back home in the end. It takes a ton of work tho and they probably do need to get Mito's help with it, Kakashi can show them the seal they got brought here with but it's an ACTUAL one in a trillion miracle it didn't fucking atomize them. So it needs a lot of touch ups

Anyways !!!

I have a little more rattling around in my brain but I'm really tired and also starting to think about other things now so I'm gonna stop here. Might come back and add to it later so stay tuned if you're into that

Full disclaimer I'm not gonna write this. I don't have the proper energy and it'd probably end up being too ambitious of a project if I tried. I'd love to see it happen tho, so like !! Big open invitation to absoloutley anyone who might want to take even a fraction of the ideas I've listed.

@ me if you do tho I wanna see the final product

[yaoiconnoisseur]

yeah but like imagine if kakashi’s trauma manifested like this

instead of becoming angry, cold, and distant during his ANBU years

[oh-no-its-bird]

Been thinking about your team ro time travel and team ro defect crossover and I just. I've been rereading keanblade's stuff recently so i have a very specific tobirama in my head and the idea that he'd take one look at this group of sad dissilusioned young adults/children and be like guess i'm a father of 5 now and rewrite his entire priorities around that. Like, you mentioned in the of team ro time travel you liked the idea of having half hatake tobirama in the mix and i'm an enjoyer the idea hatake tend to just adopt children wily nilly like oh look more pack, I think i will thank you very much. Just tobirama absconding with this entire group that has no incentive to return to their own time and being like i'm the dad now (yes some of them are barely younger than him, no that doesn't change that he's everyone's dad fuck off). He gets to teach kakashi all kinds of hatake things! Show him how to be a little wilder like the hatake of the warring states! If you subscribe to the theory he helped hashirama learn how the mokuton worked he could tenzo with his mokuton. The funniest option is that somehow all of this leads to peace without izuna dying and they werent even trying for that. Like, tobirama just straight up ditching everything to take care of a bunch of depressed teenagers and a kid, over half of which are uchiha, and being SO fiercely protective of his little pack of murder children and the uchiha seeing this and being like. Huh. I thought that guy hated us? He just. Is living in the woods with three uchiha and treating them like his specialest little guys. An uchiha patrol runs across them and tobirama is patting itachi on the head for a good job learning whatever insane jutsu he's currently teaching team ro because those are his kids and of course he'd teach them to be as strong and terrifying as he could. Makes them think. Bonus points if this also somehow leads to madatobi and/or when the village does get built tobirama always looking to team ro before agreeing to any plans cuz they know what didnt work the first time, having not only been affected by it in the worst ways but left because of it in their time. Does this make the village better? Who knows. But they're certainly trying.

Sorry for the long thing, this has just been plauging my thoughts. I dont even know if i explained my idea well it's just been banging around in my brain for too long and i needed it out

Based off [THIS] au about Team Ro defecting from Konoha after Kakashi, having been told the truth of his fathers sabotaged mission and the slander campaign against him by Orochimaru, interrupts Shisui's murder at Danzo's hand, leading to the entire team + Sasuke to flee Konoha-- and then accidentally time travel into the warring states era, years before Konoha was set to be founded.

(This is already long, so the reply is below the cut ->)

OK FIRST OFF IM SO SORRY IT TOOK ME SO LONG TO REPLY TO THIS OOPS I HOPE I DIDNT KEEP U IN SUSPENSE

Woahh Keanblade mention !!! I love their stuff, they have some great fics and I love their brain. I haven't read their fics in a while actually, I should like go brush up on my keanblade lore / characterization at some point

IM YELLING THO IM SO ?? HONORED ?? TO HAVE SPARKED SMTHN IN UR BRAIN ACTUALLY, IM EATING THIS UP I LOVE IT THANK U SM FOR SENDING ME THIS I HAD SO MUCH FUN READING UR IDEAS !! AND YOU SENT ME SO MUCH TOO, SO MUCH FOOD TO DEVOUR ! Thank you for sending them to me I am giving you a little kiss right on ur brain

Tobirama really said "wow I can't believe I have to adopt these guys now"

Hashirama, probably: "Otouto you really dont have to--"

"I can't believe the world itself is making me adopt these sad, lost children."

"Children? Otouto, they aren't exactly--"

"I MUST take them in. I'm FORCED to, even."

"Tobi, no one is saying you--"

"I really have no choice in the matter. There are NO other options for them."

"Tobirama, please--"

The fact that Tobirama is like literally the same age as Kakashi and then they're just barely older than Shisui and Tenzo makes the whole thing so much funnier. It's probably for the best that he didn't try to dad them fr fr bc Im pretty sure the only one here without some form of daddy issues is like. Sasuke. Who is also 7.

(Which could be argued against tbh just depending on ur specific interpretation of Fugaku's dynamic w his kids on any given day)

So I imagine trying to actually parent various members of team ro comes with the risk of accidentally stepping on a landmine and potentially causing incredible violence and years of baggage to explode outward. I love my traumatized shinobi boys !!

Big brother Tobirama my beloved tho !!! Do u think he has complexes about being a big brother I think he has complexes and also that we should totally explore that, send tweet

Tobirama cave hermit arc !!! Madara had his turn, now it's his!

Team Ro really showed up, immediatley got thrust into an (unwilling, unwanted) custody battle, then got fucking SNATCHED by Tobirama before they could try and make a run for it, and just kinda,, decided to go with it? I guess? Fucking gold, actually. How the actual fuck did Tobirama convince them all to stay with him, the world will never know.

The man teleported the group of them into a forest alone, (instantly outnumbering himself) and went "this means I won the custody battle btw." and team Ro just went "I mean its better than being stuck with Uchiha Madara I guess." and went with it

Im not going to lie I fucking pictured Madara stumbling across the cave and team ro yapping at him like little chihuahuas and fucking lost my mind actually, needed to take a second to regain my sanity (in a good way)

Do u think Hashirama yells at Tobirama when he comes back home for publically kidnapping some mystery uchiha (plus others who were not very recognizable and thus do not matter as much) in front of the uchiha clan. Does Tobirama come back home? Does he just decide to become a cave hermit somewhere in the woods with his hashtag found family who may or may not fully want to be there? (they must, to some degree, want to be there-- if only because Tobirama Senju might be talented but he is also 18 at the time and nowhere near the height of his power. And Team Ro is many things, but unskilled is NOT one of them)

I forgot Tobirama knew ab the time travel for a sec and pictured him looking at Sasuke, this little clone of Izuna, and going "Hmm. You look exactly like my rival does and no doubt belong to the Uchiha main house."

"Does this mean you'll give us to the uch--"

"No."

(Finders keepers !!)

"Madara, the most uchiha uchiha in who knows how long before itachi and sasuke came along to give him a run for his money" is so fucking funny actually, I am internalizing that line and will probably suddenly think about it later at work and giggle to myself, I can already tell

If Izuna and Hashirama are both being little bitch boys in this I do need to advocate that they should totally get to kiss and be little bitch boys ✨ together ✨(the hashiizu agenda never dies) (let them begrudgingly get a drink together--though its Izuna who does most of the begrudging--get drunk while whining about their brothers, and then share a very ill advised kiss or two that Izuna will now deny ever happened till the day he dies)

I still think Tenzo should get to bond with Hashirama bc I love them getting to interact, but Im hearing your 'bad brother Hashirama' vibes for this spin off and nodding respectfully, so like. Maybe Hashirama can be sad about Tobirama monopolizing Tenzo, literally THE only other Mokuton user in the world's time, and be mad ab that too? I dont usually write explicitly bad brother Hashirama so I'm not too good at proposing how that could go tbh but I love the soap opera / dogblood drama vibes, it's so fun

I do think that some of team Ro could be useful at the peace talk / village planning meetings if they spoke up !!

Itachi may be young but is clan heir, and no doubt knows most of the modern day clan laws that Konoha would one day put in place, so he can suggest those knowing that it's what they'd eventually land on anyways.

Meanwhile Kakashi is the student of a Hokage, who watched over the shoulder of two different Hokage's, from ages 13 to present, so he absolutely knows a thing or ten about politics and running a village (at least from an outsiders perspective) Which. Actually technically makes him the most eligible / knowledgeable person like. In all of the peace talks when it comes to running a village which is fascinating. I'm jotting that one down to reference later in my original team ro time travel fic actually, there's a lot that can be done with that

ALSO !! If this is the 'team ro time travels to warring states era' au but like, with the team ro that defected from Konoha, they totally have Opinions(tm) about Konoha, which is so fun. I feel like Shisui has the sort of personality where he might actually be vocal about things when it comes to founding Konoha.

The way that the team stood whenthey left the village, Shisui and Itachi were both still majority village loyalists (though their loyalty had been deeply shaken)

Tenzo was high key "whatever my teamamtes say I will follow" but still has Konoha's roots buried deep into his heart.

Kakashi was the most complex-- the only one who it could truly be said was against the village, and for that I think he's interesting to play with and has motivation to get inolved in village making-- or the opposite; Want nothing to do with it.

IM YELLING ACTUALLY AT TEAM RO GENRE CHANGE THTS SO FUNNY

It was actually never time travel, it was straight up dimension travel. They fr went from a grimdark angst fic to a silly fluffy cracky fuckin, blessed eyes au where Tobirama is actually secretly a Good Boi(tm) and his indescribable riz and way with children make Madara forget about the whole mutual genocide thing

(Plot twist: Izuna and Hashirama arent actually bad brothers, they're just not aware of the genre they're in and reacting accordingly to their brothers doing a sudden 180 and ending the war with the ✨power of love ✨ and also adopting several teenagers (some of which are literally their age) who appeared out of nowhere, have no credentials, two of which are technically CONFIRMED BLOODLINE THEIVES (Kakashi willing and Tenzo unwilling, lab grown mokuton stolen from Hashirama's dna is STILL BLOODLINE THEFT, thanks Orochimaru) and are losing their GODDAMN MINDS over the turn of events)

Anyways this whole thing was a riot, I loved it and u are a master at silly fluff and comedy, I had a lot of fun reading what you sent me !!!

Ik u were aiming for silly fun so I hope my additions didnt take anything too seriously, I am in my shinobi politics 'writing everything as being played straight' era, so tried my best to stick with silly fluffy fun time comments instead of tripping and falling into the political implications of, like, a disillusioned with Konoha nukenin Kakashi, at the age where he was near his most depressed and apathetic, who is also technically the most qualified person in Fire to discuss making a village, being let in on village planning with implicit backing from both the Uchiha head and Senju heir. Or how itachi in the original (non nukenin) au was down to kill Madara, but the him in this au now has even more motivation to do it. N other fun implications like that

BUT LIKE I LOVE THE FLUFF I LOVE THE SILLY

politics free zone !!! we are not making eyecontact with the drama bc this is team Ro's vacation, actually

anyways THANK YOU FOR SENDING ME SUCH A WONDERFUL AND DETAILED ASK !!! UR BRAIN IS SO BIG FOR IT, I HAD SO MUCH FUN READING IT AND THINKING ABOUT IT AND IM SORRY IT TOOK SO LONG TO REPLY TO AND I JUST HOPE I REPLIED WELL ENOUGH SDKFJHDSFJKDSHFJSDk

umm and then they all lived happily ever after, the end

[deus-and-the-machina]

you know the contrast between how Vergil is presented vs thinking too hard about Vergil’s story is pretty funny. Man’s reputation is this iconic badass, the pinnacle of what video game rivalries can be, the coolest guy to play as, the guy who breaks every game he’s added to,

and then you go to the story and like. man’s lost his free will and autonomy at 19 and then came back a fractured man half of which was a lovecraftian eye beast the other half of which was a chronically ill goth man. and then he reunites and hes in like his 40s now I believe but legit the last time he was actually in a game where he wasn’t being mind controlled when he was 19 which is both sad but also thinking about how this guy who’s considered one of the top badasses of gaming has never really lived life outside of being a teenager.

Anyways this is the secret comedic potential of post DMC5 for Vergil because not only has the human world probably changed a fair bit in terms of technology, if he’s sticking around Dante he’s gonna actually have to learn in depth how taxes and grocery shopping work. Amazing.

[robinchan-hananomi]

Wano

[ashxketchum]

YAMATO HAS AN EARRING OH WE ARE SO BACK BABY

Suddenly the Teenage Wolves album makes soooo much sense 😆

[hychlorions]

well anyway this was supposed to be susato in the style of baro't saya/filipiniana popular in the 1880s around when dgs took place

[janeyshivers]

how Mobile Suit Gundam SEED and SEED Destiny misunderstands eugenics (and how 0079, Zeta, and ZZ nailed it)

(note; unless i specify otherwise, i'm using 'Gundam SEED' as a catch-all for the combined 100 episode run of both Cosmic Era shows)

Gundam SEED is built around the idea of genetic modification on steroids, where huge populations of Coordinators (Spacenoid stand-ins, living in the Cosmic Era's equivalent of the Sides, the PLANTs) are genetically modified in-vitro to be immune to disease, to be stronger, smarter, and kind of better at everything than unmodified Naturals (Earthnoid stand-ins who are just normal-ass Earth people). i feel like this core setup, and the way the show handles it, falls into the trap of treating the arguments of eugenicists seriously, when there's absolutely no reason to give them an inch on anything, something that the early UC understood all too well.

for one thing, Gundam SEED fails to actually address any of the really pertinent questions gene therapy raises, especially since SEED doesn't just feature genetic engineering as a plot device like G-Witch and ZZ, it bases an entire faction around its use and makes it the driving force of the show's core conflict. the show does not, for example, broach the extremely thorny topic of how genetic modification will affect the marginalised. many current pushes for genetic modification are pushed by insane eugenics groups, and the show never addresses whether, for example, the PLANTs try to gene edit out autism, or screen for any kind of genetic markers for being gay or trans. it doesn't ask whether there is any validity to the search for genetic explanations for these things, as contemporary eugenics organisations such as Autism Speaks insist. would non-white Coordinator parents be pressured to bump their kid's skin up a couple of shades to reduce the impact of racism and colourism on their lives? we see from the forced-labour camps the Alliance sets up in North Africa during Destiny that the CE is a world where racism is still very much a cultural force, and yet SEED never addresses how that interacts with Coordinators, despite a lot of the roots of modern genetic research (undoubtedly something that has led to a lot of positive medical advances) nonetheless lying in the 'scientific racism' of the early 20th century. an unfavourable reading might even point out that since we never see any of this stuff addressed or treated as a problem (for example, we don't meet any queer or neurodivergent Coordinators), SEED accepts that these are indeed qualities for which there are genetic markers, and it's not worth examining that the PLANTs bin them. that is a slightly unfair reading because the lack of those kinds of characters among Naturals suggest it just wasn't something the writers felt they could include for whatever reason, but then I would argue that if you're not able to address these things then you have no business writing a science fiction story where an entire core culture is built around genetic modification in the first place.

i'm not arguing that any stories about genetic modification are, by definition, eugenicist; G-Witch features it in the form of Suletta herself, and Notrette's patented brand of Tasty Tomatoes. the difference is that the show doesn't feature an entire society built from the ground-up around genetic engineering, which makes the comparisons to fascists less immediate, and even then G-Witch takes the time to address that Suletta herself feels like her only value is as a tool, precisely because she was genetically engineered to fulfil a specific purpose. it comes closer to grappling with the real dark side of these ideas in a 25 episode run than SEED did in 100.

instead, the framing of genetic modification in SEED as creating people who are, unambiguously, better at absolutely everything, and whose main obstacle is jealousy from unmodified people, accepts at face value the premise that to be superior due to your genetics is possible. by doing this, and also ignoring any of the real concerns marginalised people had at the time, and continue to have to this day about the possible uses of genetic modification, the show comes off as validating eugenicists. while SEED hedges on the details, i would argue that by accepting this as a basic premise to begin with, the show has already validated an extremely noxious worldview.

that being said, the Coordinators do experience significant problems with fertility, with birthrates collapsing in the third generation and requiring interbreeding with Naturals to sustain their population. the show does not assert that genetic modification makes the Coordinators into flawless ubermensch, and clumsily attempts to argue for a middle ground between fascistic genetic purity and a degree of equality between Naturals and Coordinators. imo the issues the PLANTs end up having is because SEED isn't like, actively trying to write a treatise on why eugenics is good, instead, the writers chose a hot-button issue to address and then badly fumbled it, in the process treating seriously and partially validating ideas that are in the real world just a flimsy cover for racial hatred and other bigotries. to my mind, it's saying that eugenics works to a point and then starts to break down, but i think the idea that it can work up to any kind of point is giving it a lot more credit than it really deserves.

my core frustrations with that are a) that SEED is actually pretty good when it shunts that stuff into the background, e.g. in the first half of Destiny, and it's frustrating watching the show fall back into being about this shit and neglecting the stronger elements like the solid character work with Shinn and Athrun, and b) previous Gundam shows already staked out a strong position that what SEED takes as a given is actually total horseshit. the show's themes would be frustrating enough if they didn't exist as part of a franchise which has previously gotten this issue more or less right, with the highly combat-effective Coordinators being an obvious stand-in for the UC's Newtypes. the Zabis hijack the idea of Newtypes from Zeon Deikun and treat being a Newtype as a matter of genetics because it made their fascist spacenoid supremacy sound semi-legitimate and scientific. meanwhile, the text of 0079, Zeta, and ZZ insists that to be a Newtype is something almost impossible to define quantifiably. characters who are stated in-universe to be Oldtypes nonetheless experience Newtype visions, and the defining factor in developing Newtype abilities is nothing to do with being a pure-blooded Spacenoid, but about the simple fact of existing in space and allowing that to change the way you interact with the world. to my mind, the early UC's position is that while capable of providing miracles like the Sides, science is also too often invoked as a rhetorical device to retroactively justify existing dehumanisation and hatred by making it sound objective and logical, leading to Zeon seeing Earthnoids as so inhuman that killing billions of them in Operation British was acceptable to them. SEED doesn't just lack an interesting take on this core element of the UC (like Iron-Blooded Orphans' focus on how this creates avenues for labour exploitation through the stigmatisation of the Alaya-Vinjana system), it fails to understand it by accepting such a retroactive justification as part of its core premise, something that sticks out really badly because the CE shows are so interested in being a modern update of 0079 and Zeta.

my animosity towards the character of Kira in particular is that he's emblematic of these thematic and worldbuilding fuckups, cut as he is from the eugenic cloth. SEED Destiny's best moments were early on when Athrun seriously questioned Kira on his beliefs for the first time, after Kira insisted that Athrun betray ZAFT over nothing more than a hunch. and yet, Kira is vindicated, and his worldview of peace at all costs, while initially challenged by Shinn and Athrun in Destiny, is treated seriously by the show's end. Destiny's conclusion is that Kira, due to his superior genetics, simply knows better, and that we should sit down, shut the fuck up, and let our families be vaporised by nuclear murderbeams if that's what our genetically pure overlords think is best, even if the best evidence Kira has to support his worldview is little more than a hunch, wisdom granted by his superior genes. again, i don't think SEED understands that this is what it's saying; Kira talks the talk about equality between Naturals and Coordinators, it's just that the text of the show is so muddled and poorly written that it ends up saying the opposite. taken along with all of the other ways in which his character ends up screwing with the elements of SEED that i find legitimately compelling and interesting, it's difficult not to really hate him, and to find SEED as a whole deeply frustrating and disappointing.

SEED Freedom does so little to develop any of these ideas that it's honestly barely worth mentioning. having spent 100 episodes ceding ground to the eugenics shit, Freedom mostly just plays in the space that was created for it. it's much more concerned with bullshit comphet and assassinating the blackened, charred remains of Shinn's character than it is with grappling with the fact that "hey the show kept saying eugenics works do we maybe want to examine that a little in our legacy sequel". bad movie for a variety of reasons, but mostly unconnected from what im on about here.

[seeddarkpassion]

[brightblurr]

Most improved Gundam SEED FREEDOM Character...

Hands down has to be Shinn Asuka. His character improved in every single aspect. Even though I love what they did with Athrun (having him grow into being confident in what he is doing, without being influenced by someone else, settling with Cagalli, being the legendary pilot he has been from the beginning, being absolutely CLUTCH), I know Shinn stole the entire movie because the theatre I was in erupted when he was on scene in the Destiny.

I think the movie did an amazing job of showing that Shinn was actively trying to change, and for the better. In GSD Final Plus, we know Kira invites Shinn to work with him. This is enough to make Shinn join COMPASS to work with Kira. He keeps saying he wants to help Kira shoulder the burden he has. Kira constantly eclipses Shinn's potential as a pilot.

The movie does a fantastic job of showing Shinn in the Immortal Justice, a Gundam that runs on a battery that is acceptable in a non-nuclear world, that is built with Athrun Zala's piloting style in the Infinite Justice in mind. This machine, while symbolically the partner to the Rising Freedom, is not meant for Shinn. It symbolizes that while Shinn wants to work with Kira, his machine isn't meant for him. Shinn not only doesn't like the armaments on the Immortal Justice (his mobile suits, especially the Destiny, seem to have mid-range options, while the Immortal Justice is very much close range), it also runs battery operated. Shinn is one of the only Cosmic Era pilots to drain batteries quickly. In the Impulse, he drained them and needed replacements fast. He isn't like Kira, who can work under constraints.

The moment Shinn receives the Destiny, he gets access to his preferred armaments, to a nuclear powered pack (something that he benefits from immensely), AND to the symbolic power he gave up. The Destiny was his final, all powerful suit, and it was misused in GSD. He was panicky, angry, emotional and unfocused because of what he was doing. He didn't have the backing he did now. The thing I enjoyed the most is that we have not one, but two uses of Shinn's music in GSF. There is the use of Kakusei Shinn Asuka from Gundam SEED DESTINY in parts of the theme while Shinn is in the Destiny Spec II. There is the use of Impulse! Shutsukegi while he is taking off in the Destiny. There is no shortage of callbacks to the Shinn in the beginning of Destiny who was the hero. The music is symbolic that Shinn has gone back to being right. He knows the course he's on.

We have the ultimate tell-all when Meteor by T.M. Revolution, a theme meant for Kira when he is heroically charging into battle, ends with Shinn's Destiny destroying three Black Knight units. Meteor is still the theme of the hero flawlessly saving his allies. But it isn't Kira's, because Kira doesn't flawlessly save his allies. It becomes Shinn's because he is. Shinn is positioned again to be the hero that he didn't get to be in Destiny.

On the far left, we have Kira and Athrun, who win against their enemies with cinematic backdrops. Their choices in music highlight that their battled were difficult. Athrun had meticulous planning and Cagalli's support. Kira needed the Mighty Strike Freedom to fight Orphee, and Lacus's psychic powers. The only person who didn't need anything, who essentially did what Kira did when he received his new Freedom units during SEED and DESTINY, is Shinn.

I was amazed, absolutely amazed, at how Fukuda somehow redeemed a character who we left off with as a childish, angry villain. Shinn had no personality traits that made him likeable at the end of DESTINY. Having him show up with the one thing he could find - wanting to work to a better world with Kira - and highlight how his change in mindset essentially made him better, was genius.

It gets even more intense when you read the novel. You have Aura Maha Khyber constantly going on and on about Durandal, how she was influenced by him. The Black Knight squad constantly goes on about how much Durandal was like a father to them too. But they degrade Shinn, who was Durandal's ace pilot. They look down on him, berate his skills, assume he's no good. When reading all of the above in that context, the added layer that Shinn destroys them in the Destiny Spec II, a machine that Durandal originally made for Shinn, is the best storywriting possible. It shows that they underestimated Durandal's own discovery. Durandal, who might have been wrong about everything, was not wrong about discovering Shinn. Shinn did turn out to be a gem of a pilot. He needed the right armaments (something Kira needs too, fyi), the right motivation, and the right people supporting him.

I really like that Shinn found his support group in Kira and Lunamaria. I like that he grew from where he ended off in Destiny into a dependable ally to Kira. Where Athrun always had the confidence as a pilot, Shinn needed to show that he was always good. That he was the "Freedom Killer" for a reason. He was Durandal's ace pilot for a reason.

Never in a million years would I have thought that a movie titled Gundam SEED FREEDOM would make me love Shinn Asuka and the Destiny more.

Another important thing I think needs to be said is that Durandal also had something correct about Athrun. Athrun is able to pilot anything. He pilots Goufs, GINNs... He pilots the Z'Gok. He pilots the Aegis (basically a mobile armour). He was meant to pilot the Legend. Ironic name aside (Athrun is basically a legend in GSF, with every single villain going on about how good he was), the DRAGOON system in the Legend should have been hard for him to use. In Gundam SEED FREEDOM, Athrun uses the Strike Freedom, with its much more difficult DRAGOON system, and he does it so well that Shura doesn't even realize it isn't Kira.

Durandal knew his pilots and their capabilities so well. How insane that he knew Athrun could handle a DRAGOON system.

[silkquake]

Let's be alone together.

[hotsuinyamato]

.

[oh-no-its-bird]

Speaking about au crossovers, suddenly absoloutley infected w the idea of a team ro time travel au + the team ro defects from Konoha to join sound au mashup

So many time travel to the warring state aus hit the beats of "oh yeah were from the future village u made, which btw is awesome" but what happens when that diverse team of clans, that team of mismatched uchiha/hatake/suspected senju that people of the time gape at seeing work so smoothly together, instead of vouching for the village condemn it?

But there's also an added layer of like— some of these characters still care about the village. Honestly all of team ro does on some level.

Itachi and Shisui are still village loyalists, just forced to leave for their own self preservation when Danzo would have them killed

Tenzo is still struggling with his own brainwashing and even tho he may have chosen the team and his friends over konoha, he still has that "you live for the village you die for the village" mentality implanted deep in his heart. He may actually try to compensate for it by being vocally against konoha when given the opportunity (lying to himself ab it)

Kakashi is complicated. He's probably the one among them who it can truly be said is against konoha— for a refresher on the detector au, he left after finding out Danzo had his father killed, then walked in on him trying to kill Shisui + this was around the time where Danzo was trying to get him to kill Sarutobi (and he was straight up willing to do it too) so there's a LOT going on in that head of his. I think he considers Konoha to be it's people— and unfortunatley he has very little people left there to truly care about. Doubly unfortunatley (for Konoha) a chunk of the people he finds himself willing to "allow" himself to care for have also come with him in this defection. So.

It's complicated.

Anyways, all of this is to say is that these guys have some seriously complex thoughts on Konoha and whether it's truly "good" or not, and I think that'd make for an interesting read when they eventually meet the founders

Also like. There's a pretty heavy Uchiha bias among them, let's be real.

Tenzo may have the Mokuton and may or may not be some sort of Senju bastard, but his education wasn't shit. He has absoloutley no opinions on the Senju in general but his only friends in the entire world are 2/3rd uchiha, so.

Shisui and Itachi are literally Uchiha. Itachi is the fucking clan heir. I don't even need to elaborate.

Kakashi is the only one who could claim to be any sort of neutral (hes even distantly related to Tobirama, though he doesnt even know it) but it was also established in the detector au that he has some sort of positive relation to Mikoto. I like to HC that Tsunade was a good friend of his father and even babysat him when he was younger tho, so there's that. But like. Still. There is a much bigger Uchiha influence on (literally his entire) life than Senju.

Anyways I don't really have any specific thoughts for this one? They don't have the same konoha loyal motivations as the original team ro time travel au, but they also don't have any motivations to like, STOP the founding of Konoha itself. They're smart enough to recognize it was a net positive for all of shinobi kind. But they don't wanna be involved.

If Orochimaru came with them maybe they can try to create sound way back when? That could be cool

Call up the Hatake and the Orochi of the warring states and see if we can make a new first ever shinobi village with a different image in mind

Fucking Orochimaru headed medical revolution 100 years earlier than it has any buisness being ,,,

Mmm this is just making me think ab an Orochimaru time travel fic actually and that's not what I want with this specific thing so let's shelve that for later maybe

But like. Team Ro time travels to the warring states but it's the team Ro that defected from Konoha

OH FUCK THAT MEANS SASUKE IS WITH THEM TOO

Rip Sasuke, my favorite little Izuna look alike. He's like 8 and the second any Uchiha see him they're going to have a stroke and go tell Madara and Izuna they might have stumbled upon something seriously sinister

Oops <3

[love1kimono]

The Geisha HAMAYUU -- A Meiji-era Beauty from OLD JAPAN

"….Hamayuu (濱勇) of Shinbashi.

A Meiji period junior Geiko (Geisha) with the Yamato geisha house in the Nanchi hanamachi (geisha district) of Osaka and a Taisho period Geisha with the Shinbashi hanamachi in Tokyo.

There are several contemporary postcards and references in the literature to her under the name Hamayuu [Hamayū], both as a junior geisha in Osaka and later as a geisha in Tokyo, but none that account for the name Hawaryu. Perhaps it is a title or a nickname (Tokyo Dragon)?……"

[thepastisalreadywritten]

By Justin McCurry in Osaka

1 Apr 2024

1 April 2024