#wwx doesn't get the entire context behind it (at the time. Now he *does* and it all makes a bit more sense) | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

xiyao-feels · 3 years ago

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In this post I'm going to argue that the common position that LXC did not know JGY was going to kill the Wen he had with him in episode 23 is wrong. I think the evidence that he did know is considerable, and in fact the only evidence against that position is the framing which casts JGY executing them as being extremely evil. Although LXC and JGY's exchange after the sect leader discussion (the "Am I the evil?" exchange) is often taken as additional evidence that this is JGY's moment of no return on his journey to Evil, I think this is due to a misinterpretation of the exchange, which I will also argue below.

In Part 1, I show that LXC has unambiguously agreed to a plan which involves the execution of at least some Wen, and therefore the central question is whether he was expecting the particular group of Wen JGY brings in with him to be spared; I also argue that he has plausibly agreed to have even certain non-combatants killed. In Part 2, I contrast them with the Wen Jin Zixun is killing to argue that they are not, and also present the evidence that LXC has also agreed to the killing Jin Zixun is doing. In Part 3, I consider the lack of motive JGS has for having JGY, behind LXC's back, kill Wen he explicitly agreed with LXC he would spare. In Part 4, I discuss the "am I the evil" exchange, and in particular argue that the "evil" NMJ is opposed to is not JGS, as seems to be a common assumption, but the Wen. I conclude by examining the remaining evidence and arguing that it is insufficient to overcome the rest of the evidence.

Part One: What to do with the Wen remnants?

In episode 23, as WWX and LWJ discuss things, we hear distressed cries accompanied by calls of Kill them! and Kill them all! (This starts at about 17:47.) We are told that people are capturing the remaining Wen, and it is very clear what they are doing with the Wen once they catch them.

The next scene is JGS, NMJ, and LXC discussing what to do with the remaining Wen, joined partway through by JGY. I encourage you to watch it (link); it lasts from 18:09 to about 22:40 on YouTube. I have also transcribed the dialogue (including the dialogue from the 'am I the evil?' exchange), both English and Chinese, in a post here; the post also includes my attempt at summarizing the whole conversation. However, as the conversation does encompass more than just the plan about what to do with the remaining Wen, I am now going to summarize the discussion of that particular issue below.

JGS is initially pro- the capturing, and implicitly the extermination, of all the remaining Wen. LXC argues for letting the defenseless remnants—note, not the ones who can defend themselves—go. NMJ is initially on JGS' side, but relents in the face of LXC's disappointment and also argues they should let them go. JGS counters by reminding them of the threat the remaining Wen would pose should they get hold of the Yin Iron. NMJ bows and says that "Clan Leader Jin has thought about it very thoroughly" (金宗主所虑甚详); to my eyes he appears to be prepared to concede on the matter, but I freely admit that we don't actually know, as the conversation takes a slight detour and this is not resolved. We return to the issue of the Wen when JGY enters with his captured group of Wen and LXC asks him for his opinion. JGY suggests that they confine and monitor "the old, weak, and young"* as long as they stop making trouble, while those who killed a Sunshot cultivator will be executed; at LXC's prompt he provides a possible location for such confinement. NMJ observes brusquely that JGY is "really familiar with it" (你倒熟悉) (in context I think this is about JGY's knowledge of Wen places). LXC announces that they should do as A-Yao suggests; it is somewhat ambiguous in the scene whether he gets agreement, as NMJ leaves angrily rather than reply when JGS and LXC look at him, but as subsequent events seem to follow along JGY's suggestion, we can surmise that agreement was in fact reached.

*老弱妇孺. As ever, I don't speak Chinese; however Pleco gives 'the old and weak' for 老弱 and 'women and children' for 妇孺. In context, I think it is fairly clear that 'women' would not include, say, the Wen equivalent of Madam Yu, fighting cultivators with good cultivation power, who besides would probably have killed a Sunshot cultivator and thus would be sentenced to death.

I wish to point out a few things about this exchange. First, the default plan without LXC's interference is apparently to simply kill them all. Second, at no point does anyone including LXC argue in favour of sparing the Wen who aren't defenseless; if LXC were a Wen, it seems likely that he would be on the chopping block due to his cultivation power and martial prowess. Third, the plan LXC agrees to here /very explicitly/ includes killing some of the captured Wen. There is no way I can think of to interpret the conversation in any other way. At no point does LXC agree to a plan which involves sparing all of them.

I'm hammering this point home because I think it is often overlooked. If the agreement is that all the remaining Wen are going to be spared, then obviously if any Wen are still killed this is a betrayal of that agreement. But that's clearly not the agreement that's reached! The fact that some Wen are killed is therefore not sufficient to constitute a betrayal of that agreement; the question becomes whether the Wen we see JGY kill are in a group protected by that agreement.

Before we look at these Wen, however, I want to look at the scene after JGY kills the Wen. Once again, we see LWJ and WWX discussing things. They are interrupted by cries and pleas from a group of the remaining Wen (at 26:56), who are being chased down and killed by Jin Zixun. It's hard to get a decent picture, but to my eyes they do indeed look like the old, the weak, and the young:

Moreover, WWX explicitly identifies them as such. "These are women, children, and old men. Are they also evil?" he asks, and the phrase is 老弱妇孺—the same phrase JGY used to identify those to be confined and monitored in the previous scene.

Is Jin Zixun's killing a betrayal of the agreement, then? But consider his reply:

It's Clan Leader's order that anyone who has concern with Yin Iron should not be alive. Nie-zongzhu and Lan-zongzhu also agreed. Does Jiang clan have any questions? 宗主有令凡是跟阴铁有关的人一个都不能留聂宗主和蓝宗主也同意了难道你们江氏还有什么疑问吗

Jin Zixun explicitly says that NMJ and LXC agreed to the killing of anyone who "has concern with Yin Iron," regardless, it seems, of whether they have power in themselves or no. It's not impossible Jin Zixun is lying; however, while he is certainly intent on provoking WWX, he does not seem to be worried about being caught in deceit, and indeed LWJ who is right there does not contradict him or seem to doubt him. Moreover, to the best that I can recall this does not come up again, as we might expect it to if Jin Zixun is in fact deceiving them; and while these Wen who know something about Yin Iron may be 老弱妇孺, they are nevertheless reasonably viewed as a threat, and it seems a fairly natural extension of the agreement we see the clan leaders reach. I'm not saying Jin Zixun would never lie, or anything, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that he's lying about LXC's agreement, while there is evidence that he's not.

Therefore, from the evidence available, it is entirely unambiguous that LXC has agreed to a plan that involves killing any Wen who have killed a Sunshot cultivator; I don't think there's any plausible interpretation other than 'execution' of what would happen to the old, weak, and young if they didn't stop making trouble, and again that's part of the plan we explicitly see him agree to; and it seems likely that he agreed to the killing of old, weak, and young Wen who "have concern with Yin Iron."

At this point I wish to pause to make a note. It seems likely that people will feel uncomfortable with LXC doing this and indeed perhaps with LXC in general because he did this; this is entirely understandable, and I'm not at all saying otherwise. However, I think it's important to note that LXC's intervention /is an improvement over the status quo/. If he had not intervened, the Wen would simply all have been killed. Yes, it's an awful and unjust agreement, and you could argue he should never have taken part in the discussion; but if he hadn't, the Wen would all have been killed. It is his willingness to "play the game" that saves lives.

(You could of course argue that he should have devoted himself to saving them entirely, by force if necessary. This has been discussed in other places and by many different people; for here I will simply say I do not think it was a viable option.)

Part Two: Which Wen?

It is clear, then, that LXC has agreed to the killing of at least some Wen. If we accept Jin Zixun's account, then even if the Wen JGY has executed are "the old, weak, and young," then that is not sufficient evidence to say that they were in the group that should have been spared! However, I think we can do better than that. To my eyes, they do not look like "the old, weak, and young":

While it is true that they are not all e.g. wearing Wen cultivator uniforms, from what I can see they all look like strong young men and women. Contrast Jin Zixun's group, which generally looks more elderly and contains a child! Moreover, while Jin Zixun runs his victims down with bow and arrow on the open road, the people JGY kills are heavily guarded, surrounded by men holding swords on them the whole time. I realize this is to some extent a matter of personal judgement, but honestly, especially combined with the contrast with Jin Zixun's group, they do not at all look to me like they are in the group that was agreed would be spared. If you disagree with this, I hope you will at least agree that they are not /unambiguously/ part of the group that was agreed would be spared; that is, it is open to debate.

Part Three: Motive

If the visual evidence is insufficient, let us turn to another question: why would JGY kill these people if he'd just proposed to LXC to spare them? The answer to that is in some sense obvious—he'd be doing it because his father wanted it—but that simply moves the question back another level. Why would JGS want JGY to kill these people, and in such an obvious manner, if he'd just agreed with LXC he would spare them?

I legitimately cannot think of a good explanation. His central goal is to progress on obtaining the Yin Iron, and to make sure no one else gets their hand on it—but the arrangement they agree to serves him just fine for that. We know he does in fact spare some of the Wen, so it's not the case that he is simply pretending to spare any of them while having them all killed. If he wants to reduce the number of people he's sparing for whatever reason, I suppose he might have JGY kill some of them—but we don't have any evidence he does want that, and why would he have JGY do it in such a public manner? They still haven't left Nightless City—they haven't even had the Banquet yet—and it's the middle of the day and there is blood on the steps:

So, what, he wants to come to an agreement with LXC and then betray it immediately for some random reason, and also do it in a way LXC is likely though not guaranteed to find out about??

In the interests of considering all the options, and the recognition that CQL does not always care about logistics when it's hitting emotional beats, perhaps we can say that the easily-discoverable nature of this is not meant to be taken literally. But there's still the problem of what motive JGS has to do this—and more than that, the question of the significant motive he has not to.

Consider the situation at the beginning of the discussion: NMJ is in agreement with LXC, united against JGS. By the end of it, LXC is readily agreeing with JGY, and NMJ is in some disgruntlement - and not even in a way that seems particularly directed at JGS! From JGS' perspective, it's very much a desirable outcome, and indeed we can see he appears quite pleased with it.

Endangering this gain would therefore have to bring some significant gain in return. And… what is there? NMJ might approve of killing the Wen but he wouldn't approve of telling LXC you're going to spare someone and then immediately killing them. If this were found out, it would entirely reverse the effect of the agreement, and you would have Lan and Nie together against the Jin—exactly what JGS doesn't want! And it's worth remembering that at this point they haven't even sworn the brotherhood oath yet, that's a few scenes on, so it would be an extremely stupid time to endanger LXC and JGY's rapport. JGS is absolutely an asshole, but he's specifically a power-hungry asshole, and especially in CQL a clever and focused power-hungry asshole; he's not going to randomly endanger political gain just because he wants to be Evil.

Part Four: Am I the evil?

I think that part of the reason for the belief that JGY killed the Wen is this exchange, or more specifically a common misinterpretation of this exchange. You can watch it here, from 22:39 to 23:45 (to 24:08 If you want to watch the blood on the steps); I have also transcribed the dialogue, both the Chinese and the YT English subtitles, into another post here.

In this exchange, LXC tells JGY not to take NMJ's behaviour to heart; it's simply that he "resents the evil and favours the good,"* and that he's simply worried that JGY has "made the wrong choice." It's honestly not clear to me if this is supposed to hit in English quite the way it does—is LXC talking about a specific, individual wrong choice JGY has made? However it does seem to be usually interpreted as this, and moreover, specifically as NMJ thinking JGY has made the wrong choice /in becoming JGY/, in becoming Jin Guangshan's recognized son and aligning himself with the Jin. In this understanding of events this criticism of JGY is then validated by his killing the Wen—look, he's being evil, just as NMJ said!

There is a problem with this version of events, however. NMJ dislikes JGS, to be sure, and disapproves of him and so forth, but I don't think he thinks he's evil or particularly disapproves of JGY working for his dad JGS qua JGY working for his dad JGS. It's worth noting that in MDZS, at least, NMJ releases MY from his obligation to him and sends MY to JGS with his letter of recommendation! But there is someone NMJ hates, or rather someones: the Wen. His antipathy towards JGY at present isn't based on JGY working for JGS; it's based on JGY having recently worked for WRH. Even in CQL, remember, in episode 27 NMJ speaks up against LXC and JC's defense of WQ and WN, notably aligning himself with JGS on the matter (link). Thus his displeasure that JGY is "really familiar" with Wen places. NMJ would not be impressed with JGY executing Wen he had agreed with NMJ and LXC not to execute, but killing captured prisoners, even non-combatants, is not something NMJ considers inherently evil. To be clear, I am not trying to make NMJ out as uniquely bad for this! This is true of most people in his society, and while NMJ is absolutely unusually principled, that doesn't mean his principles are the exact modern-day principles we might like him to have.

When LXC talks about "the evil," he is not talking about JGS; rather he is talking about the defeated Wen. His stutter in response to Am I the evil? makes much more sense in this light. It would be a much more obvious return from JGY, and indeed fairly close to an insult from LXC, if LXC meant that JGS—whom JGY had just aligned himself with, and who also is /JGY's dad who just recognized him/—were evil; on the other hand, if LXC is simply referring to NMJ's well-known hatred of the Wen, then JGY taking it seriously—as either a serious question about his own evil, or a question about whether NMJ now feels the same hatred towards /him/—is more understandably an unexpected conversational move.

Considering the exchange in this light, I think we should not see it as suggesting that JGY's next action is betraying LXC. If NMJ's hatred is based primarily on JGY's previous association with the Wen,† if anything to me the effect is to parallel JGY doing awful things under WRH with JGY doing awful things under JGS; in either situation, he is much constrained. I don't insist on that interpretation, of course, but I do think the "evil" here is very much the Wen and not JGS, and that this complicates the idea that this is the show telling us that JGY is Evil Now.

†There is the captain killing too, but he clearly does not wholeheartedly condemn JGY for it previous to meeting him in Sun Palace, and even expresses some concern for him in the interim; JGY's work with the Wen is much more significant here.

Conclusion

To sum up, then: LXC very explicitly agrees to a plan that involves killing some of the captured Wen; there is also evidence that he may have agreed to killing some of the non-combatants among the captured Wen, and I think it likely. Regardless of this last, I think the visual evidence (especially in contrast with the Wen Jin Zixun kills) suggests that the Wen JGY has executed are in the group LXC explicitly agreed to have killed. Moreover, I think that the common interpretation of the Am I the evil exchange as telling us that JGY is Evil now is flawed, and that it therefore doesn't suggest that JGY's next actions are evil beyond, like, the evil of executing captured prisoners even as part of an approach that saves some of them.

There is the matter of the framing of the execution; it does certainly suggest that JGY is doing something awful. My answer to this is twofold. First, that JGY is indeed doing something awful. Executing captured prisoners is bad! Like, I am not blaming him for not reforming society from the ground up, here, and I do tend to think it's the only option that he had, but that doesn't mean it's not a shitty option.

Second, that the show sometimes frames JGY's actions as Evil in a way that's not really justified by what's presented. If you consider the Burial Mounds flashback in episode 43 for example (link), then we see JGY being presented as evil when he is, objectively, being helpful and helping protect LWJ's reputation. His telling LWJ that LQR is there to pick him up is framed as worse than LQR having LWJ beaten is. I am not, to be clear, saying that framing can't be legitimate evidence; of course it can. Nevertheless, I think it's worth considering the issues around JGY's presentation in CQL more generally, and especially to consider whether the framing alone is sufficient to conclude that he is betraying an agreement with LXC, rather than simply executing captives, especially in the light of the evidence against this.

As a final note, I want to note that I suspect part of the reason for this take is the general reluctance to believe that the characters we like could be doing something bad/something we disagree with. With LXC, this very often tends to result in the belief that he didn't know JGY was doing bad things, despite the mass of evidence against this position; with NMJ in particular, I cannot count the number of times I have seen people simply assume that he is obviously against the destruction of the Wen. This falls into the intersection of both, reassigning the target of NMJ's hatred from the Wen, who have our sympathy, to JGS, who decidedly does not; and making it such that LXC is ignorant that JGY is going to have those Wen executed, because how could he speak with JGY so warmly beforehand otherwise? But NMJ hates the Wen, and will go on to position himself with JGS, against LXC!, against them; and LXC is indeed willing to treat JGY with warmth despite his doing awful things, as in CQL we will see him be warm with JGY at the Phoenix Mountain Hunt despite JGY having (due to the wishes of his father) ordered captured Wen out in front of the targets. Neither of them have, for example, CQL LWJ's exact set of beliefs.

*恩怨分明嫉恶如仇. Generally I hate to post about my thoughts on the translation, but I do think it's worth noting here that from what I can tell this seems to be two phrases, 恩怨分明 and 嫉恶如仇. For 恩怨分明, Pleco gives "know clearly to whom to show gratitude and against whom to feel resentment"; for 嫉恶如仇, however, it gives "hate evil like an enemy; abhor evil as one's deadly foes". This is the phrase that gets translated as "absolutely couldn't stand wrongdoings" in ch 30 (link), when WWX is wondering why LWJ didn't just go kill XY (ER translation):

Wei WuXian found this a bit strange. Although Lan WangJi looked as if he didn’t care about anything, from Wei WuXian’s past experiences with him, he absolutely couldn’t stand wrongdoings, possibly even more than Nie HuaiSang’s brother. Back then, the LanlingJin Sect had some dishonest ways of doing things, and Lan WangJi never bothered to be subtle about them. Even until now, he always refused to go to their sect’s Discussion Conferences. If two cruel massacres happened, the news would’ve probably spread over the entire cultivational world and Lan WangJi definitely wouldn’t have turned a blind eye to them. Why did he not go and give Xue Yang what he deserved?

Taming Wangxian gives it as "he hated evildoers to the core" (link), and MDZS Translation gives it "someone who hated evil with a vengeance" (link).

It's also 嫉恶如仇 that JGY repeats, rather than 恩怨分明. The Viki subtitles, for what it's worth translates this portion of the exchange as follows:

LXC: Brother Mingjue is precisely someone who is clear about kindness and grudges, and abhors evil as one's deadly foe. He's just worried you've gone down the wrong path.

JGY: "Abhor evil as one's deadly foe…" Am I exactly that evil then?

As ever, I am open to correction on this matter.

ETA: on the matter of Zixun, I think madtom's point is right; I replied here.

#jin guangyao #a gentle warmth filling the deepest of needs #more than one tag could contain #the best of men #also!!! once again I am very much obliged to confusion-and-more for their help #this post would not be what it is without them #and I am very grateful for it #long meta

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xiyao-feels · 4 years ago

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So, this started off as a shipping bingo for MDZS nie//lan; I've added the bingo meme above so that you know what you're getting into. What it evolved into, however, is several thousand words of close reading of the NMJ+LXC relationship, getting some into the 3//zun dynamics and comparing it with LXC and JGY's relationship to help demonstrate my point. If that sounds interesting to you, read away! Fair warning: as you might gather from the bingo above I am not very gentle, not only on the idea of a romantic relationship but also on their friendship.

Originally, I imagined I'd be saying something like, while of course they were very good friends and LXC grieves for NMJ, there's no evidence of romantic interest. But I wanted to look over the scenes first, to get a handle on them properly and to pick out some quotes; and what I found, when I looked at it closely, startled me—I couldn't believe how little there actually was.

My methodology for this review, by the way: I searched the entire text for every variation on their name I could think of, and then read over the chapter for chapters they were both mentioned in. I also reviewed chapters where only one of them is mentioned (that's how I caught the reference in ch 16, where NMJ is only referred to as NHS' brother). I might have missed something, or I might have read it and not registered it, etc etc. I definitely don't have JGY's memory XP But I've done my best to be thorough.

Also, a heads up: while I've done a little bit of addressing NMJ's emotions, this is mostly focused on what LXC feels, because otherwise this would be even more ridiculously long and because that's where my interest lies.

I'll state my conclusions up front, in case you just want to know what I think and not have to wade through [mumble] thousand words to get there. But it's far enough off from even the standard non-shippy take on their relationship that I really did think it was worth walking through the evidence.

It seems to me that while NMJ and LXC were to some extent close before the war, they grew apart during the war and very much so afterwards. There are a few moments that suggest NMJ might feel unusually tender towards LXC, there is nothing similar on LXC's part, and frankly their post-Sunshot interactions that we see suggest that—while LXC certainly cares about him—he does not at all feel close to him.

Moreover, his personal grief for NMJ's death, and whatever personal betrayal he may feel about JGY killing his, LXC's, friend, are not the drivers of his emotional difficulties with respect to JGY.

Okay, now the evidence. This has been divided up into two parts, NMJ alive and NMJ dead.

Pt I: NMJ alive

LXC and NMJ were friends before Sunshot; while we don't have a lot of evidence to guess how close they were, we can certainly see signs of long familiarity with each other in their later interactions, and it's worth noting that we don't see either of them having other friends beyond, in LXC's case, JGY.*

*NMJ got along with his subordinate MY very well, but except for one incident it was purely in the context of a superior/subordinate relationship, and he does not seem to have been interested in MY as a person, so I'm not classing them as friends.

Nevertheless, during Sunshot, we can see LXC begin to grow apart from him, and in their post-Sunshot interactions they start not very close and end up quite distant. By the time if NMJ's death, it's clear that while LXC cares about him, he is not emotionally close to him at all.

A brief discussion of NMJ's feelings, before I spend most of the rest of the post focusing on LXC's. As I mentioned above, LXC seems to be NMJ's only friend, and he does react to him in ways he doesn't really seem to anyone else. In the teacups scene, for example, we're told that "while Nie MingJue had never been one for humor," nevertheless "in front of Lan XiChen, his expression eased." Later, towards the end of the stairs incident, LXC is able to dissuade him from immediately pursuing JGY's death, which I believe is as much as we see anyone ever do with NMJ's anger. Finally, in ch 46, when LXC and LWJ are playing music to deal with NMJ's headless corpse, WWX thinks that NMJ might particularly be responding to LXC playing Liebing: "Wei WuXian didn’t know if it was only his imagination, but as soon as the soft, serene tone of the xiao appeared, the corpse’s movement paused. For a moment, he seemed to have stood still and listened, then turned around, as though he wanted to see who was the one playing the music."

If you wanted to say that NMJ has romantic or quasi-romantic feelings about LXC, then I don't think that would be an unreasonable extrapolation from the text, although I also don't think it's a necessary one; friendship and minor romantic feelings are I think pretty much equally fair readings.

Even so, LXC is not his priority; rather, he prioritizes NHS and (probably not unrelatedly) JGY's moral rectitude. In Ch 48, the friendly 3zun conversation only happens because NMJ was seeking LXC out to bring him NHS' saber, which he'd left behind, and when he qi deviates it's NHS and not LXC who manages to bring him some calm just before he dies, and whose features he can recognize (ch 50). At the Phoenix Mountain Hunt (ch 69-70), we see no sign that either he or LXC sought each other out, and on those occasions we do see NMJ initiate discussion with LXC it's usually about JGY's moral rectitude (ch 73, his sarcastic remark about JGY's hard work after the conference about WWX; ch 49, his interjection during the guqin scene; ch 49, the beginning of the stairs incident).

And what about what LXC feels? Let's take a close look at the progression of their relationship.

In chapter 16, when NHS is studying at Cloud Recesses, we see LXC run into him and convey NMJ's query into his studies, having apparently recently returned from Qinghe. While he doesn't say what he was doing there, it seems reasonable to infer that he was either visiting NMJ or at least visited him while he was there. (ETA: NHS also hopes that LXC will put in some good words for him to NMJ, which also suggests that he expects they'll be in contact.) This establishes a baseline of closeness from before the war, however much they drift apart during and after. However, we never see any of their interactions before the war, or anything else about their relationship; this is all we get.

The high point of the NMJ and LXC interactions that we see on page happen during Sunshot, where we see them have three conversations (all in ch 48). High point, however, is a relative phrase. In order, there's the teacups scene; there's their conversation (including MY) after NMJ agrees to release MY from his service, with a recommendation letter no less; and there's their conversation where NMJ recounts what happened with MY in Langya.

Let's start with the teacups scene. NMJ and LXC do talk, but it's part of a group conversation with other cultivators—at least three and as many as six of whom we see interject,* one of whom is another sect leader—and it seems mostly about practical or immediate matters. The exchange on the page isn't long and "Soon afterward, Lan XiChen and the rest stood up" and are led to their resting areas by MY. Moreover, interestingly, it's NMJ who asks all the questions; LXC answers him, but doesn't ask him questions in turn, or comment on his situation.

*there are two separate occasions where there cultivators per chime in

(Note also that the focus of the conversation suggests that NMJ and LXC aren't communicating extensively through letters or anything, as does LXC not knowing MY is NMJ's deputy. I don't think this is hugely significant, given that there's a war on and presumably they don't want information leaking everywhere and LXC doesn't seem to have a fixed address, but it does seem worth noting—as does the implication, perhaps more significant, that LXC only stops at Hejian when he's escorting other cultivators: "Everytime Lan XiChen passed Hejian as he was escorting other cultivators, he would rest shortly[.]")

NMJ and LXC's conversation in the teacups scene stands in really stark contrast to the conversation between LXC and MY that NMJ is about to overhear. That conversation is very much private; it's in LXC's private resting area, and MY is sitting in the presence of Zewu-Jun. The conversation is sort of about the war, but really only as it relates to MY's dream of "earn[ing] a proper place in the LanlingJin Sect" and "receiv[ing] the approval of [his] father." The very first thing we hear LXC say is a comment on MY's situation ("What a coincidence. You joined MingJue-xiong’s force and became his deputy")! He is of course going to go on to raise the possibility of MY going to Langya (to serve his father), and independently volunteer to talk to NMJ if NMJ isn't willing to let MY go. And even after NMJ joins them, some things are kept private between LXC and MY; when he asks them how they know each other, LXC refuses to answer, and then when he asks MY to answer as LXC will not, MY also refuses him, since LXC doesn't want it spoken.

The two conversations are simply very different, in a way that suggests a strong contrast between LXC's feelings for and interest in NMJ and LXC's feelings for and interest in MY. It's also worth noting, as I mentioned above, that it seems that NMJ sought LXC out because he was bringing LXC NHS' sabre, so LXC can bring it on to NHS.

Now, let's look at the conversation the three of them have after NMJ volunteers to give MY a letter of recommendation and send him to serve his father in Langya. This conversation is, I think, the high point of the interactions they have that we actually see. LXC expresses a positive evaluation of NMJ: "Look, I told you that MingJue-xiong would respect your decision." He smiles at NHS' sabre, and responds directly to NMJ. And then of course there's this famous paragraph:

The three chatted back and forth, at times serious, yet at times light. The conversation was much more relaxed than when they had been in the living room. Listening to their chatter, Wei WuXian often wanted to get a word in as well, yet he was unable to do so.

That said...well. Again, there's nothing about anything here that suggests romance, and if you look at the reasons I give for it being the high point, that's not actually very high. As to the paragraph—again, I do think they're friends! But I think it's also noteworthy that the easiest conversation we see/hear about them having is one that is early in the war,* and where MY is also present, and one where NMJ has just done something good for MY.

*MY is noted as having joined the Nie forces "right after" Sunshot begins, and to have been promoted to NMJ's deputy after not many interactions; LXC also seems surprised at least by MY being NMJ's deputy, which suggests that he hasn't stopped there before while this was the case, and he comes by in the paragraph immediately after MY is promoted. Finally, after MY vanishes after his confrontation with NMJ in Langya, we're told that "during the next few years" no traces could be found of him. All taken together, this suggests to me that MY was NMJ's deputy for 1-2 months early in the war, and the conversation of course takes place at the very end of that period

(As ever, I recommend confusion-and-more's close reading of the second scene, here.)

The next interaction that's mentioned in the text is after MY tricks and immobilizes NMJ and flees, when NMJ describes what happened with him to LXC. I think it's worth noting exactly how the exchange is introduced:

Even when Lan XiChen had the time to assist Langya, a few days later, his anger hadn’t died down one bit. As soon as he came, Lan XiChen laughed, “MingJue-xiong, what a temper you seem to be in. Where is Meng Yao? Why does he not come and douse your flames?”

"As soon as he came," note! It seems to be literally the first thing LXC says. And while it is a comment on NMJ's state, its primary function seems to be as a lead-in to asking about the state/whereabouts of MY. Their exchange as the text shows us is /entirely/ about MY, and he's clearly the focus of LXC's interest. We also have this from LXC, which I think is interesting as it shows the contrast between his morality and NMJ's:

"Judging from his words, the person whom he killed had definitely done wrong. However, he should not have taken his life either. We are in harsh times, so it is quite difficult to determine who was at fault."

Their next interaction is in chapter 49, LXC defending MY from NMJ post Sun Palace—and I don't just mean verbally, he's defending against Baxia with an unsheathed Shuoyue through this whole conversation. At this point, he still has some faith in NMJ's ability to act rationally towards MY, as he asks MY if MY hadn't told NMJ about his being the spy, and NMJ displays familiarity with LXC, knowing that he rarely interrupted people. I'll note that unlike in CQL, LXC does not seem particularly angry at this point—MDZS LXC is almost never angry, including at multiple points where CQL LXC /is/—but overall it's hardly an example of particular closeness, and we see that LXC's morality continues to differ from NMJ's: "MingJue-xiong," he says of MY, "he was undercover in Qishan, and sometimes there would be some things that… could not have been helped."

Later in the chapter, just before the Flower Banquet, it's mentioned (possibly as inference from WWX) that LXC brought up the sworn brotherhood to NMJ, "having always hoped that the two [NMJ and JGY] would reconcile." Obviously we can infer things about their closeness from the fact that LXC does in fact swear brotherhood with NMJ, but we have no direct textual statement as to why he wanted to swear /himself/ to NMJ, be that personal or political or both.

Next comes the Flower Banquet. NMJ seeks JGY out, first, for his usual concerns with JGY's moral rectitude. Shortly after, LWJ and LXC come over; shortly after that, JC and WWX come over, though they soon move on. There are two things I want to note here. First, it's the only time we see LXC seek NMJ out (and one of only two times we see one of them seek the other out—the other will be in ch 73, after the conference about WWX, when NMJ comes over to him and JGY talking). Second, this is the only time we see LXC respond to NMJ verbally post-Sunshot in a way that isn't about defending someone, either JGY (the usual case) or WQ (at the conference in ch 73)—although it is to some degree a defense of WWX, and it's not quite directly in reply to NMJ, as NMJ and LWJ have a brief exchange on the subject first. These positive signs will not occur again, and I think it's significant that this is the earliest post-Sunshot scene we see.

The next scene for this analysis (chronologically speaking; it's in an entirely different chapter) is the Phoenix Mountain Hunt. Although we see NMJ and LXC arrive to the hunt in ch 69, NMJ arrives after the Twin Jades have started slowly riding into the distance and we don't actually see them interact at all; nor do we see them together in ch 70, the rest of the hunt. Moreover, there doesn't really seem to be any suggestion that they /did/ interact. When JGY says he's not sure if he'll be able to expand the hunting ground in two hours, LXC asks him why, instead of saying something like "oh right da-ge was doing all that hunting too." Moreover, when JGY answers him ("not only did Young Master Wei keep a third of the prey to himself, our eldest brother has eliminated over half of the fays and the monsters as well"), LXC's response doesn't indicate that he saw NMJ earlier, or knew what he was doing, though it does suggest a general familiarity with Nie Mingjue's character: 'Hearing this, Lan XiChen laughed, “That is how Brother is like, after all.”'

Now, this hardly rules out the idea that they had any interaction, but I think it at least suggests they didn't have any significant interaction, or any interaction after the hunt began. This is in contrast (again!) to his relationship with JGY—he was with him earlier for who knows how long, as they arrive on the scene together, and after this is going to go help expand the hunting grounds. They do have LWJ with them for this last, but he's helping them at LXC's request, and the framing of that request is very—well: "WangJi, should we leave, or would you like to help as well?" So LWJ can come help them, but if he doesn't want to, LXC is simply going to go off with JGY again.

If the Flower Banquet was the high point of their actual interactions on the page, post-Sunshot, then this is I think the most purely emotionally positive we see LXC feel about NMJ post-Sunshot. Significantly, it's based on an apparently older familiarity, and it's when they don't seem to have interacted recently and NMJ isn't even on the page.

The next scene they're in together, again chronologically, is in chapter 73. They're seated together in the first row, but that's explicitly because of their status, and they're grouped with LWJ and JC: "In the front row sat sect leaders and famed cultivators like Nie MingJue, Jiang Cheng, Lan XiChen, and Lan WangJi." During the conference, they have a brief conflict about WQ's culpability, which LXC leaves off explicitly because he's familiar with NMJ's hatred for the Wen. After the conference, we're told "the Venerated Trio gathered," but what this looks like in practice is LXC and JGY talking together and then NMJ coming over. LXC observed that JGY has worked hard, JGY is amused by the destruction JC wrought on his table, and then NMJ interrupts with a negative comment about JGY*: "All clever talk—hard work indeed." LXC smiles but doesn't reply. JGY tries to change the subject by asking LXC where LWJ is, and LXC gestures to the front, where LWJ and Mianmian are finishing up their conversation. NMJ compliments Mianmian, and JGY agrees. That's the end of the scene. I noted for the Flower Banquet that that scene unusually involves LXC replying verbally to NMJ in a way that isn't /just/ about defending someone; here, LXC does not speak a single word after NMJ joins them.

*In the interests of not being unfair I will note that NMJ did observe JGY lie; this doesn't really matter to the NMJ-LXC stuff except that it's a lie that LXC would also have noticed, as it involved contradicting LWJ.

NMJ and LXC are once again in the same scene in ch 78, for the swearing ceremony, and even speak one after the other. However, they don't seem to interact in any way, and their speech seems to be an important sect leader thing; we're told of their responses to JGS' toast, and then JC is explicitly contrasted in not speaking:

Nie MingJue, “May their souls live on.”

Lan XiChen, “Rest in peace.”

Jiang Cheng, however, still had on a darkened expression. He didn’t say anything even after he poured the wine.

Now we're back in the Empathy chapters, after a not insignificant gap: the next scene is the guqin scene, in chapter 49. Although LXC is playing guqin in the Unclean Realm, and is going to offer to teach JGY the Song of Clarity which he can use on NMJ, LXC and NMJ barely interact at all—they only have one very brief exchange, where NMJ objects to LXC teaching JGY the SoC (because it's leaking Lan techniques), LXC defends his decision, and NMJ realizes he's not going to change his mind so he doesn't say anything. Again, in contrast, LXC is very focused on JGY, asking him questions about his background, complimenting his playing, and independently offering to help him improve his guqin and even teach him an "exclusive teaching" of the Lan! The contrast is very noticeable.

A little after this, it's revealed that LXC left a guqin at the UR, apparently for JGY to use to play the SoC to NMJ. This is ostensibly because he is busy with the rebuilding of CR, although WWX speculates that this is just an excuse and that he "simply wanted to give Nie MingJue and Jin GuangYao a chance to ease their tension."

In chapter 30, it's revealed that at a Discussion Conference in the past, NMJ (who we are told otherwise would not have shown up, note, although it would have been an opportunity to see LXC) confronts the Jin about their refusal to sentence XY to death. He draws his sabre with the intent of killing XY, and gives JGY "a harsh scolding," causing JGY to "hid[e] behind Lan XiChen, not daring to say anything else." It seems likely that LXC defends JGY and/or helps to calm NMJ down, although nevertheless the Jin Sect has to (temporarily) give in on the matter of XY's death sentence; nothing about any further interaction they may have is noted.

Their next interaction is at the stairs incident, back in chapter 49. NMJ charges in on LXC and JGY, who are discussing the watchtower plans together, and tells LXC to stay there and JGY to come out with him. LXC's "face disclose[s] his worry," but JGY stops him and follows NMJ out. Some time later, LXC shows up at the conflict, coming to see what's happening, "concerned after having waited for long." He manages to calm NMJ down and prevent him from further trying to kill JGY, by talking about the work JGY has put in with the Song of Clarity, pointing out that he really is in a terrible situation, and urging NMJ to give him more time. Nothing he says particularly suggests that he feels close to NMJ; if anything, he seems kind of in denial about just how much NMJ is set against JGY.

Finally, there is their last interaction, just before NMJ's death. LXC is defending—well, not so much NMJ as the idea that NMJ hasn't rejected JGY completely, to JGY. His arguments are as follows: NMJ chose to become sworn brothers with JGY, which means he approves of JGY; when NMJ included in the oath stuff about "face a thousand accusing fingers, be torn from limb to limb," and so forth, he /also/ included "if one were to think otherwise," and since JGY doesn't think otherwise, he doesn't need to worry about it too much; that NMJ has always cherished JGY's talent and hoped he would choose the right path; and finally, that he's really really troubled by the saber spirit, that "[h]is anger was simply too great for him to have thought before speaking," and that JGY must not provoke him again (presumably by talking back, as he did at the stairs). As shining defenses of character go, this... isn't one. Again, he seems like he's kind of in denial about how much NMJ is set against JGY—notably, he didn't see all of the stairs incident, certainly not the part before JGY talked back—but it also doesn't exactly contain a strong positive assessment of NMJ. Forget his defense of JGY to Wangxian: this doesn't even compare to his confidence in NMJ in the conversation NMJ overhears and then joins at the Hejian front.

I realize all this is a lot, so to sum up their post-Sunshot interactions: we only see LXC seek out NMJ once, early post-Sunshot, and that's at a party. The fondest LXC seems of NMJ is one line during the Phoenix Mountain Hunt, when NMJ isn't even on-page. We do not see them spend any time privately together when JGY is not also there, and every time they interact publically JGY is also present at the party or gathering. When we do see them interact, the only time LXC responds verbally directly to NMJ is in defense of someone; if we include his indirect defense of WWX at the Flower Banquet, then that becomes 'the only time we see LXC respond verbally to NMJ at all.'

This is not of course to say that they don't have interactions we don't see. Given the time gaps, they must! But there's nothing about the interactions we *do* see to suggest that the ones we don't are in any way actually emotionally close, certainly not on LXC's part. Again, a contrast with his interactions with JGY is instructive; as with NMJ, we certainly don't see all of their interactions, but what we do see signals their closeness, mutual respect, and tendency to spend time together.

PT II: NMJ dead

Okay, you say, but wait! What about the depth of his renewed grief after he finds NMJ's body!! What about his deep personal betrayal about JGY killing his close friend!!!

Yes, I say, wild-eyed, having tried to find anything in the text for just that. what /about/ all that.

My problem is, how do I prove a negative? In the chapters with NMJ alive, LXC's presence and his interactions with NMJ are short enough that I could reasonably if lengthily discuss and summarize; that's just not going to work here (there are twelve and a half temple chapters!), not least because some of it is a matter of context or interpretation. So I'm doing two things. First, where we do see him actively upset, I'm going to show you what he seems upset about, and second, I'm going to point out places where we might expect him to react if he's feeling a deep personal grief about NMJ specifically, and instead he does not, or reacts differently.

Let's start with chapter 46, where LXC sees NMJ's moving corpse for the first time. I've seen the idea around that LXC recognized NMJ by his abs, but this doesn't really seem to be the case; it's either the shape of his (headless) body or his saber-fighting movements. Significantly, LWJ also recognizes it at the exact same time: "As they saw the headless shadow, both [LXC and LWJ] paused shortly." LXC's reaction to this recognition is extreme surprise, "almost to the point of shocked," and he takes a bit to resume playing Liebing, joining LWJ on the guqin (to deal with the headless corpse that's going around). 'Shock' is hardly incompatible with immense personal grief, but I will note that in this section he is also not described as anything other than shocked, although it is his first time seeing NMJ's body in ten years.

In a few paragraphs they deal with the corpse, attacking its energy enough that it falls back into pieces. As WWX seals the pieces back into his qiankun pouch, LXC asks him to wait: he wants to look at the corpse first, and he's described as having an "ashen" complexion. In context, though, both of these things seem to me to be about the likely identity of NMJ's killer, rather than NMJ himself; when LXC says he want to look at the corpse, WWX asks him if he recognizes the corpse, but it's not LXC who replies: "Before Lan XiChen could reply, Lan WangJi already nodded slowly." Moreover, as WWX points out, LWJ has already given LXC all the evidence that points at JGY as the killer—and also, after they do start talking about the identity of the killer, LXC shows no further interest in the corpse. This, from WWX, seems to me to sum up LXC's emotional conflict in this conversation: "Sect Leader Lan, you know who is the most suspicious person. You’re just refusing to admit it." It's not about NMJ being the corpse per se; it's what NMJ being the corpse suggests JGY did. ETA: I look at this scene in more detail here.

(I'll also note that the very first time we see LXC have anything to do with NMJ's corpse, it's in chapter 11, in the context of LWJ asking if LXC is visiting JGY "again" and a paragraph on JGY from WWX which includes the revelation that he and LXC are sworn brothers on the one hand, and LXC talking about LWJ being in good spirits and bringing guests home on the other. Meanwhile, NMJ's arm: 'Lan XiChen spoke, “Uncle has taken and examined what you brought back from Mo Village.”'

Now obviously we can't infer LXC's feelings about NMJ from this directly, given that he doesn't know it's NMJ's arm at the time, but it's certainly textually suggestive, and it very much fits in with a pattern of LXC prioritizing JGY and LWJ.)

That's most of the end of chapter 46; the next chapter has LXC, LWJ, and WWX going to the discussion conference at Carp Tower. Again, it's kind of hard to prove a negative, and LXC's reactions aren't really described at great length (though he does of course greet JGY with a smile); the only thing that seems unusual is that he seems "absent-minded."

Chapters 48 and 49, and part of 50, are the Empathy chapters. After WWX escapes from the flashback and returns to LWJ, he and LWJ start causing a ruckus trying to get into JGY's bedchamber (to get to his secret room). An audience is attracted, including LXC. Taking a cue from LWJ, he pressures his way into the treasure room; he seems relieved when NMJ's head isn't behind the curtain WWX lifts. He has—well, he certainly has a few emotional reactions, but at no point does he seem driven by grief over NMJ instead of uncertainty about JGY. At one point he "nod[s] heavily" to confirm to NHS that he's talking about NMJ. Or consider this exchange:

Jin GuangYao’s eyes still held tears, but appeared as if they were red with anger. He clenched his hands into fists and shouted with both grief and resentment, “Dismembered… Dismembered! Who in this world could’ve done such an insane act?!”

Lan XiChen shook his head, “I do not know. When we were searching for the head, the clues disappeared.”

Now obviously JGY is acting—but he's acting the role of someone who /is/ personally mourning NMJ, and he's showing more anger than LXC ever does about it. Now—to be fair, MDZS LXC gets angry even less than CQL LXC, who is hardly an angry person. But there are a few times we do see him angry—certain moments confronting JGY in the temple, in the temple courtyard when he's angry at WWX for how he's treated LWJ—and what happens to NMJ's body, never mind the fact of the death itself, doesn't seem to make the list.

In chapter 63, WWX wakes up in CR, having been recovering for four days. In this chapter and the next two, LXC becomes increasingly distressed as they discover the Song of Turmoil and the evidence seems to weigh against Jin Guangyao, enough that it's not really feasible to review every instance of it. Nevertheless, there are a couple of parts I think it's worth looking at directly.

In chapter 64, we get something extremely valuable: LXC's statement of his own emotional quandary.

Lan XiChen supported his head on his hand. His voice was low, as though he was trying to hold something back, “WangJi, the version of Jin GuangYao that I know is entirely different compared to the version that you know and the version that the world knows! Throughout all these years, in my eyes, he has always been… enduring his suffer, caring for all people, treating everyone with respect. I have always believed, without a doubt, that the criticism he received from others all came from misunderstandings, that what I knew how he truly is. Now, you want me to believe, at once, that everything about this person is fake, that he planned to kill one of his sworn brothers, that I was also a part of his plan and even helped him… Could you please allow me some more discretion before I make my own judgement?”

So, what is he distressed by here? It's quite clearly the idea that he /doesn't/ know JGY, that the JGY he knows is fake, a falsehood, and relatedly that their relationship is not as he understands it ("that I was also a part of his plan and even helped him"). JGY killing NMJ is obviously what inspires this crisis, but it's not at all what's centered in his speech here, and even the half-sentence mention that it gets doesn't frame it at all in terms of NMJ's relationship to LXC. "He planned to kill one of his sworn brothers," he says, not "our sworn brother" or "my sworn brother" or even "my friend."

(The paragraph immediately following reads to me more like WWX's conclusions than narrative certainty, but either way, it's not about his personal relationship with NMJ: "Lan XiChen had taught Jin GuangYao the Song of Clarity, keeping in mind the grudge between Jin GuangYao and Nie MingJue, hoping that they could be how they used to be. He requested Jin GuangYao to help calm Nie MingJue in place of him. Who would’ve known that his kindness made possible Jin GuangYao’s cruelty? How should he face himself now?")

Later in the chapter, there's the famous section where he tells WWX about his and LWJ's parents' story. I do think part of this is about telling WWX something about LWJ (although not that LWJ has feelings for him, which MDZS LXC thinks he already knows), but it's also pretty transparently about his own uncertainty re: JGY.

He paused before speaking again, “Young Master Wei, can you understand why he did such a thing?”

Wei WuXian answered after a moment of silence, “He could neither forgive the one who killed his teacher nor watch the death of the woman who he loved. He could only marry her to protect her life and force himself not to see her.”

Lan XiChen, “Do you think that this was right?”

Wei WuXian, “I don’t know.”

Lan XiChen looked somewhat lost, “Then, what do you think would be right?”

Wei WuXian, “I don’t know.”

A while later, [Lan Xichen speaks again, in a whisper]

He spoke, “Madam Lan must’ve been a very gentle woman.”

Lan XiChen, “In my memories, Mother had indeed been so. I do not know why she did such a thing back then. And, in truth, I…”

He took in a deep breath before confessing, “Do not want to know either.”

It's not what you might call subtle.

But it's also worth noting, I think, exactly what LXC focuses on telling the story. It was one of his father's teachers that his mother killed—and while that is absolutely a very important position, and obviously would have mattered and indeed did matter to QHJ a great deal—that's literally all the information we get about him, that he was QHJ's teacher. He lingers on why QHJ did what he did, and whether it was the right thing; he talks about the crime his mother committed, and his response to that. He does not focus at all on the teacher, the clear NMJ-analogue in this scenario. He's not QHJ's beloved teacher, or his favourite teacher, or anything like that—he's not even just "his teacher," he's "one of his teachers." And maybe that's all the information he has about him, but he doesn't linger on that question either! Again, there's nothing here to suggest that his conflict is about his personal connection with NMJ.

ETA: I actually missed something here. Thanks to some critique in the notes (and which I discuss more extensively in the post linked at the bottom of the page), I looked at the Chinese here, and the word LXC uses for teacher is 恩师, which Pleco gives me as “mentor; one’s kind and respected master (or teacher).” So on the one hand, that's not nothing. On the other hand, the point remains that it's only one word, LXC isn't adding lots of adjectives on to describe the teacher, and as I mentioned in the previous paragraph, simply doesn't linger on the teacher in his conversation with WWX; the focus is elsewhere. I think the point as a whole stands.

Now to the temple chapters. I think it's fairly well-known, at this point, that he doesn't bring up NMJ to JGY in the temple chapters, but I'm going to point it out again—he doesn't bring up NMJ to JGY in the temple chapters! And this is, I feel, even more significant in MDZS, where he's seen NMJ's fierce corpse. That said, there are a few instances where he reacts to NMJ/NMJ's corpse; I'm going to look at all of them.

First of all, in ch 104 when WWX says "Looks like being called the son of a prostitute is really Sect Leader Jin’s weak spot. No wonder you killed ChiFeng-Zun," we're told that "With the mention of Nie MingJue, Lan XiChen’s expression changed." No further details are provided; we don't know what it changes into, and the only hint we have as to what it changes /from/ is that LXC's last described reaction, only two paragraphs previous, was calling "Sect Leader Jin" because he knew JGY was about to fuck with JC. Also interestingly, LXC does /not/ have any reaction described when JGY and JC have the "isn't it hard being your shixiong/isn't it even harder being your sworn brother" exchange, earlier in chapter 101. Perhaps his reaction is simply not noted by the text—it seems unlikely he has literally zero reaction to it—but if we're looking for a difference, it seems like it's either the explicit reference to killing NMJ, or the reminder of NMJ calling JGY the son of a prostitute.

Second, there's the moment NMJ('s fierce corpse) shows up (ch 106). He, JGY, and NHS all say "Brother." JGY and LXC's responses are one paragraph after the other, and the punctuation is the same: "… Brother."* Meanwhile, NHS reacts first, a few paragraphs earlier, and he cries out, "Brother!!!" We're told that "[their] three tones were drastically different," which is interesting as well. NHS seems in the grip of some strong, active emotion—excitement? grief? We're explicitly told that JGY is scared. Whatever LXC's tone is, it's hard to say—but it's not like NHS'.

*(In the original text it looks like LXC's is "…Brother." and JGY's is "…Brother...", but either way they're significantly more similar to each other's than either is to NHS'.)

Thirdly and finally, when the Jin cultivators are fighting NMJ's corpse (ch 107), NHS peers out from behind LXC's back and calls out to NMJ ("both frightened and eager"), leading NMJ to charge at them. LXC stops him by playing Liebing, then then tries to get him to recognize identifying NHS ("Brother, this is Huaisang!"); the latter unfortunately does not work, NMJ being totally overcome by resentful energy. This section does actually have some evidence of grief: when he plays Liebing, it's described as "with a sob of Liebing."

He'll continue to try and deal with NMJ's corpse, notably with LWJ and WWX, but those three moments are the only times he reacts to NMJ (as NMJ, as opposed to as a fierce corpse that needs to be dealt with). That's not a lot, and each moment is very brief, not to mention fairly ambiguous about LXC's emotional reaction. If he /was/ being driven by his grief for NMJ's death, you would think we'd see more of it.

Furthermore, there's one moment I think it's important to pull out as explicitly not about NMJ. LXC tells JGY (and had told him previously) not to call LXC er-ge, /not/ because he killed da-ge (which you might expect!) but because of the second siege: “Sect Leader Jin, I have already said, when you went your own way to scheme such havoc at Burial Mound, that there was no longer the need to call me ‘Brother.’”

Now, to be clear, it's not that LXC's reactions to things just aren't described in the temple sequence in general. Obviously we see him react when he's telling LWJ about WWX's feelings, but even beyond that, even when he's occupying a more background role in the narrative, we're given his reaction quite a few times. He sighs when LWJ seals his spiritual powers (ch 100); he tends to NHS, covering with his outer robe (ch 102), comforting him when he's disturbed at the sight of the coffin (ch 103), protecting him from SMS (after NHS frames him for stabbing him, ch. 107) and from NMJ (ch 107), and comforting him and giving him pain medicine about the wound in his leg (ch 108); along with LWJ, he's distressed by the sound of JC's sword-scraping technique against JGY's music (ch 101); he tries to warn JC a couple of times when JC is fighting JGY (ch 101), cautions JL (ch 101) and later JC (ch 102) about worsening JC's injuries, and along with JL, WWX, and LWJ freezes when JC slaps JL to the ground (ch 102); he asks Minshan why he's being rude to LWJ, and a little later, with SMS and JL, pauses in astonishment when LWJ laughs (ch 100); he averts his gaze from and seems perhaps embarassed by the ghosts that WWX summons (ch 104); he calls out to WWX to remind him that his current body is closely related to JGY, and will therefore attract NMJ's fierce corpse (ch 107). He actually has a couple of entertaining reactions to Wangxian being Wangxian: he coughs and tells WWX it is maybe not the best time and place for this when WWX is about to repeat "I really wanted to sleep with you," and then later he and Jin Ling inexplicably! move their sitting cushions far away from Wangxian's and gaze into the distance (ch 100).

And more than anything else—in what I think is a very instructive contrast—he reacts to JGY, in a way that reflects an ongoing continual emotional investment. He is, quite notably, consistently worried about JGY and unable to stand the sight of him in pain, even when he thinks he shouldn't be. When the coffin trap goes off, and they overhear Jin cultivators wailing and a pungent smoke emerges, there's worry in LXC's eyes; after JGY and Minshan make it out, and JGY takes some medicine against the poison, LXC hesitates for a moment and then asks what happened (ch 103). After LWJ cuts JGY's hand off—which means /after/ he's taken JL hostage, note—LXC "seemed as though he wanted to help him for an instant," though "in the end he dared not" (ch 106). When Minshan asks him for medicine for JGY, seeing how terrible JGY looks, he hesitates slightly before they're interrupted by NMJ's success fighting the Jin cultivators (ch 107). After they've defeated NMJ, he treats JGY's wrist; moreover, "Seeing that Jin GuangYao almost passed out from the pain, Lan XiChen, who in the beginning wanted to use this to punish him, still didn’t have the heart to bear it," and goes for the pain-relief medicine from NHS. And this is all not even accounting for his reactions to JGY either during his questioning of JGY or post-stabbing!

And what about when he's distressed by JGY? When he's reacting with upset or anger? There seem to be two consistent threads: first, that JGY did awful things/hurt people /not/ under constraint, and second, the idea that he doesn't know JGY after all and their relationship was a lie.

For the first, he calls out Sect Leader Jin when JGY starts in on JC after JC calls him the son of a prostitute (ch 104), although notably he does not do the same in their earlier confrontation when JGY is distracting JC in order to defeat him, only warning JC (ch 101); when JGY confesses to having burned down the brothel, he's distressed when JGY says that it wasn't entirely to remove the traces (ch 105); he becomes /less/ angry about the second siege and about QS when it turns out that he was operating under constraint in those conditions (ch 106); and of course, the thing he's angriest about is JGY killing his father, "and even in such a way" (ch 106). In ch 103, looking down at the coffin he is shocked that JGY buried something that caused such horror to its surroundings, but without further information about JGY's reasons this does not metamorphose into anger.

For the second, when WWX him asks why there's no light shining from Shuoyue, he tells him "It's quite a shame," and that he "was fooled by lies" and had his cultivation sealed (ch 99); when JGY assures him that he'll let him and NHS go without harm when the time comes, he asks if he should believe him (ch 100); when JGY asks if LXC isn't going to ask him /why/ he set the fire (since it wasn't entirely to erace the traces), we have this important excerpt (ch 105):

“In the past, it was not that I did not know what you did, but that I believed you had your reasons behind doing them.”

He continued, “But, you have done too much. And I… no longer know if I should believe you.”

Fatigue and disappointment sunk heavily into his tone.

And then after JGY takes JL hostage (ch 106), this one:

Lan XiChen spoke slowly, “Sect Leader Jin, you lied again.”

Jin GuangYao, “Just this once. There’ll be no next time.”

Lan XiChen, “This was what you said last time. I can no longer tell which of your words are true.”

LXC asks him about the letter in the first place because "whenever he heard there might be hiddenmight hidden reasons, he just had to hear it" (ch 105); when WWX challenges him before he tends to JGY's wounds, he says "Many things still remain unanswered" (ch 108).

His upset at JGY "attacking" him is in ch 108, I think, a combination of the two—in CQL, it reads more like he's angry that JGY took an action that made him need to attack JGY than anything else, but in MDZS he experiences it as a real betrayal: "As he saw Nie HuaiSang’s expression along with the warning, he felt something in his heart go cold." Because it would have been one; it's a line that JGY hasn't crossed, and as it turns out it's a line that JGY hadn't crossed, and would never.

And lastly, after JGY's death, we have once again LXC's explicit statement of his difficulties—and while LXC's post-stabbing difficulties could be different from his pre-stabbing ones, it's at least an important consideration, and it is in line with the rest of what we see:

“… Just what does he want to do? I once thought I knew him well, and then I realized I did not. Before tonight, I thought I knew him well once more, but now I do not.” Nobody could give him an answer. Lan XiChen repeated in frustration, “Just what does he want to do?”

Looking over the evidence, he's hurt and angry that JGY would do awful things not under constraint, and about the idea that he doesn't know JGY after all/their relationship is a lie. I do think it's unlikely that he's zero percent upset about JGY contributing to NMJ's death—I tend to think they talked about if offscreen, between LXC leaving with him from Gusu and WWX finding them in the temple, and that's why LXC doesn't bring him up in the temple sequence. But whatever he's feeling, his reactions to JGY don't seem to be about his own personal grief for or relationship with NMJ, and if they /had/ been about that I think there's several moments in the temple that would have played out differently.

One last note: I see often the idea that LXC going into seclusion after JGY's death is for his grief about /both/ his sworn brothers. At this point, you're probably unsurprised to learn that I don't think the evidence supports this. Not only, again, do we have very little evidence of his personal grief for NMJ post-timeskip—ten years past NMJ's death!—even after NMJ shows up again, but there's a distinct change in him after JGY dies. Before that, he's obviously distressed, but he's still tracking and on top of things; afterwards, on the other hand, we're told that "If it were the usual ZeWu-Jun, he couldn’t have failed to fathom [what WWX was suggesting the letter be intended to cause]. But right now, it was likely he had no more space in his mind to think" (ch 109), which tracks pretty well with his absent-mindedness at the banquet a few months down the line (ch 116). Nothing about LWJ's discussion with WWX of LXC's state suggests it's at all precedented (ch 115), and in fact when LQR talks to him immediately after JGY dies, we're told that "Lan XiChen’s face was full of an unspeakable grief" and that "Lan QiRen had never seen Lan XiChen, a child he single-handedly brought up, look so agitated and discomposed" (ch 110). JGY's death is a breaking point; NMJ's death, at the time or now, simply is not.

In conclusion, while he was certainly friends with NMJ pre-Sunshot, and that is genuinely rare for LXC, they began to grow apart during Sunshot; and while LXC continued to care for NMJ, he was not at all intimate with him, and showed no sign of particularly enjoying or seeking out his company. Later, while he is certainly disturbed at the idea that JGY might have killed NMJ, this is because it suggests that he /doesn't/ know JGY after all, and his reactions to JGY then and at the temple are not driven by his personal grief for or relationship with NMJ, nor is his seclusion in any way related to his feelings for NMJ.

ETA: All quotes taken from the Exiled Rebels translation.

ETA: I discuss some critique of this by @/hqfeels here.

#ship negativity cw #ship meme #I'm done!!!#good fucking god this took me a month #that damn bingo post #long meta #profound philosophical differences #anger burned in his heart #the best of men #a gentle warmth filling the deepest of needs

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