#wolf von uberwald

[bobellafofella]

"Vimes! Mister Civilized! Ankh-Morpork! You will run!"

been reading the fifth elephant and really enjoying angua's fucked up psycho brother. here's a take on him!

[dimity-lawn]

[twasjane]

So, yeah, y'know that bit in the Fifth Elephant where Angua makes Carrot promise he would be the one to kill her if she ever became like her brother Wolfgang?

So.

There's a line in Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man that I think Terry Pratchett was referencing either directly from that Universal monster classic or because it also comes up in again in American Werewolf in London*.

“He must be killed by a silver bullet; fired by the hand of someone who loves him enough to understand.”

Oh fuck. The only way to end a werewolf's suffering is at the hands of someone who loves them. Someone who knows they are beyond saving.

God it hurts so good.

*David in American Werewolf in London wrongly attributes the sentiment to The Wolf Man

[klinefelterrible]

Does anyone else cry at the last meeting with the King in Fifth Elephant? I was reading it at work yesterday and lucky me noone was around because fuuuuuck. Every single part hits hard

[ellieloves2read]

inspired by @ilexdiapason :]

not tagging anybody; this is for anybody who wants to! if you do, tag me! i wanna see your women

[mywingsareonwheels]

In which I get very feral about Angua von Uberwald, as I sometimes do

(Below is a quote from The Fifth Elephant, it contains some spoilers...)

""Carrot! I've got to know something."

"Yes?"

"That might happen to me. Have you ever thought about that? He was my brother, after all. Being two things at the same time, and never quite being one... we're not the most stable of creatures."

"Gold and muck come out of the same shaft," said Carrot.

"That's just a dwarf saying!"

"It"s true, though. You're not him."

"Well, if it happened... if it did... would you do what Vimes did? Carrot? Would it be you who picked up a weapon and came after me? I know you won't lie. I've got to know. Would it be you?"

A little snow slid down from the trees. The wolves watched. Carrot looked up for a moment at the grey sky and then nodded.

"Yes."

She sighed. "Promise?" she said." * * * * * * * * * * *

PRATCHETT HOW ABSOLUTELY DARE YOU.

How am I supposed to be normal about Angua, the most all-round competent pretty much of all the Watch (and definitely the most alarming fighter), cynical and self-aware and judgemental and brilliant and passionately loyal and very compassionate at times, saying that to her boyfriend. An intensely idealistic and kind and simple and terrifyingly (no, truly terrifyingly) good man. It's implied that their relationship has an inevitable slight d/s-y element, because anything halfway between a human and a wolf is rather a dog, and she is absolutely aware that when he calls, she will come running. Even while she is continually the only person (other than Vimes) who gets seriously snarky about him and isn't easily influenced by his extreme levels of charisma.

And her sheer damn relief in this scene. They've just buried her other love interest, who died trying to save Carrot from Angua's horrifying brother Wolfgang. And Carrot's the only person she trusts this much. This is just the absolute classic monster x human relationship, there is so much going on with them over the course of the several books in which they both appear (though this is the one in which they are both the most in focus) and I am still waiting for any adaptation to do it full justice.

I do not usually get this intense about any m/f relationship, but FUCK.

I also note: we learn in The Fifth Elephant that Angua has another brother who is unable to change shape to looking like a human, and who got out of the family (and away from Wolfgang) too, to work as a sheepdog in Borogravia, where he wins prizes at agricultural shows. Carrot is clearly deeply proud of potentially having a prize-winning sheepdog brother-in-law. Angua finds this extremely irritating. :D

But Vimes and Angua are based in Borogravia in Monstrous Regiment, only a few books later, so I am working on the assumption that Angua visited Andreyi while she was there. :) :) :) I hope they had a good time together. I also wonder whether his human shepherd boss has any idea of his species. :D (I bet Granny Aching would have worked it out, but Granny Aching doesn't live in Borogravia. ;-) )

[princess-of-the-corner]

Because I'm such a big Discworld fan, and the recent topic is werewolves, let me tell you and monster-au-anon about the werewolves of Discworld!

The first two we meet aren't quite like the rest, Lupine is a wolf that turns into a humanoid at the full moon. He's quite annoyed at this because it's really hard to keep a pair of trousers that he only wears one week a month. The other is Ludmilla Cake, who is a wolf-person at the full moon, but otherwise merely quite hairy.

Then we meet Angua von Uberwald and (eventually) her family, all of whom are werewolves. They can transform at will, but find it very very hard to resist being a wolf at full moon. Her father actually spends so much time wolf-shaped that, when we meet him, he's nearly forgotten how to act human. Her brother, Wolfgang, is a fascist werewolf who is very dedicated to werewolf supremacy.

An interesting addition is that of these natural born werewolves, there's a chance for them to be born without the ability to change. Angua had a sister who was permanently human-shaped (until Wolfgang) and a brother who is permanently wolf-shaped (he ran away and became a champion sheepdog). They're still werewolves, they just can't transform.

Every single thing I learn about Discworld is the wildest fucking thing I could ever imagine (I say this with all the love in my heart, but the attention span of a cocker spaniel)

[incomingalbatross]

I think Murderbot would vibe with Angua von Uberwald. I think Angua's "you know what's halfway between a wolf and a human? a dog" line would resonate with Murderbot's own issues of "I don't want to be treated like a machine and I don't want to be treated like a human and I definitely don't want to be treated like the thing halfway in between those two"

[flaggermousseart]

Angua von Überwald

[benevolenterrancy]

Gaspode glanced sideways. Angua was sitting on her haunches, staring.

“Yer tongue’s hanging out,” he said.

@meso-mijali suggested I draw a werewolf, so have an Angua

[wendynerdwrites]

Okay but seriously

Think of all the things Bigby Wolf and Angua von Uberwald would have to talk about.

[morporkian-cryptid]

Re- Lupin III Discworld AU

Thank you all for the feedback!!

#oh gods Lupin AND Moist von Lipwig?? How is the city still standing? #Lupin tries to steal from the Witches. it Doesn't Go Well at all #jigen's response is 'that's what you get for going up against Weatherwax!' #that's her name right? it's been so long since i've read the books #Does this mean Cagliostro is some small offshoot of Uberwald? The Count is a vampire don't @ me #i should reread the discworld books

(via @saphura)

The only reason Ankh-Morpork is still standing is because Lupin has no interest in destroying his main source of income, and Lipwig is trying not to piss off Vimes and Vetinari too much.

Lupin vs Granny Weatherwax is something I would pay good money to see. What would he even try to steal from her, though?

ÜBERWALDIAN VAMPIRE COUNT CAGLIOSTRO YESSSSSS!!! Would that make Clarisse also a vampire (Überwald League of Temperance probably), or is she from the human branch of the family?

this. this is a magical gift i love everything about it though listen im not sure theyd have to blackmail ridcully into magicking the carriage like im pretty sure promising to let ridcully take a spin in a BRIGHT YELLOW FUCK-YOU-FAST SPORTS CARRIAGE is enough incentive for him to do it for a laugh they go careening over the hills - crossbows out - on one absolutely batshit insane hunting trip and ridcully is pleased as punch as for lupin and moist interacting god thatd be amazing and goemon having a really obnoxious talking sword that he actually likes is hilarious im sure thats fun to share a (fiat) carriage with aaaaaaah this really is just fantastic thank you for sharing discworld lupin

(via @carriagelamp )

You are entirely right, Ridcully would give his right arm for the opportunity to mod the shit out of Lupin's BRIGHT-ASS YELLOW CARRIAGE (I didn't think about it being yellow, but it's perfect)

Jigen: So, my friend has this funky carriage he needs to repair, and- Ridcully, already taking out his staff with a knob on the end: SAY NO MORE.

(also, I just realized Lupin would know al the lyrics to "The Wizard's staff has a knob on its head", "The Hedgehog Song", etc, and he'd be fucking insufferable when he's drunk. When he's sober too.) (he'd get along awfully well with Nanny Ogg, to Granny Weatherwax and Magrat's gret despair) (also Jigen and Nanny drinking contest) (Nanny flirts with Lupin and nobody knows how to react to that, least of all Lupin) (until he just goes "fuck it, might as well flirt back with the cheery eighty-year-old witch"

Sentient!Zantetsuken doing constant commentary about "filthy morporkian technology". Jigen fucking despises it. Lupin only tolorates it because it pisses Jigen off. Fujiko probably got the horse golem only so she could escape the carriage rides with the sword.

///

Also I have more to add about werewolf Jigen (not much, but):

Imagine Angua passing him in the streets and doing a double take because 1) there aren't any other werewolves than her in the city and 2) this guy isn't even überwaldian??? are there werewolves in Agatea??? What the fuck?????

Lupin would def give Jigen one of those custom watches that tells the phases of the moon, like Carrot gave to Angua. Completely useless of course because Jigen can feel his fucking hair growing out when the full moon is coming, but it's still a thoughtful gift.

I was gonna say Goemon probably kept some silver around in the beginning, but then again, no werewolves in the Agatean Empire, so how would he know about silver.

Also, think of the angst and hurt/comfort potential of Jigen having always seen himself as a monster and a danger to other, but now having companions who don't see him as such, support him and value his gift. (having a guy on the crew who can literally smell the cops coming would be incredibly useful. Unfortunately they can't use smell bomb against Angua because that would hurt Jigen as well.

I'm imagining Jigen being really secretive about his "problem" and refusing to let anyone know about it, until the moment when he has to tell Lupin because he can't leave in the middle of a heist prep and he's worried he'll hurt his friends, so he gives him all the instructions on "how to deal with a feral wolf in the middle of the fucking city". Then the full moon comes, and Lupin's reaction upon seeing Jigen in wolf form is "OMG PUPPY!!!" and to immediately cuddle him. Jigen is too flabbergasted to even think of hurting him.

[takivvatanga]

“Wolves hate werewolves.' 'What? That can't be right! When she's wolf-shaped she's just like a wolf!' 'So? When she's human-shaped she's just like a human. And what's that got to do with anything? Humans don't like werewolves. Wolves don't like werewolves. People don't like wolves that can think like people, an' people don't like people who can act like wolves. Which just goes to show that people are the same everywhere.' said Gaspode. He assessed this sentence and added, 'Even when they're wolves.”

Terry Pratchett – The Fifth Elephant 

I need to talk about ANGUA.

I need to talk about Angua’s background.

Angua, essentially, was raised in a family that considered themselves superhuman. The von Uberwalds are werewolves, in Discworld canon being a werewolf is not a matter of curse or disease but of species (a subset of Undead, to be exact). Angua’s family were speciesist AS FUCK, considering themselves so highly superior, everyone else lesser. It is such a very clear code for white supremacism, it could not be any more obvious. On top of that, they are nobility.

So Angua grew up having her head filled with all this supremacist nonsense, she watched and she listened and she absorbed until eventually she started to question.

Angua’s brother killed one of their siblings purely for the fact that she could not shift shape – she was a yennork, a werewolf by blood but stuck in one form (in her case, human). And Angua’s father let it happen.

I think Angua likely questioned the status quo before – she is intelligent, she has an innate moral compass, but losing her sister and watching her family not just stand by but low key approve of this happening for reasons of racial purity – that was the push Angua needed to break away. Because FUCK THAT. 

Angua, by nature, is a social beast. She is meant to run with a pack, being alone will always be uncomfortable to her on some degree – hence, I think, her decision to join the Watch – Angua did her time as a lone wolf but she needed a pack to thrive. Although she would have rather spent her whole life being miserable alone than to ever go back to that family. Having no pack is still better than running with one that is morally so corrupted, so conceited, so absolutely vile. Angua would have rather died than go back to that family. 

The amount of guilt and shame that Angua carries regarding her background is UNREAL.

It’s interesting, actually – one would think that her internal conflict would be the whole human vs monster thing but given where she’s come from and having seen that high key fascist, supremacist side of people  - that is the conflict. Knowing that she has to some agree absorbed that ideology (she was a child, that was all she knew!) and having to constantly monitor how that might unconsciously affect her thoughts, her actions, her views of other people. Having to question herself constantly. Wanting to be a better person than that, and standing up for those who have been wronged by that kind of ideology.

Angua is not ashamed of being a werewolf as such - she’s ashamed of what it implies morally, about the connotations of it, about all this brain rot fascist bullshit that she associates with it by default. She’s so ashamed, and she very much wants to do better. 

[rosepinkkate]

I was tagged by @montanabohemian, thanks buddy :)

Rules:  tag nine people to get to know better

Relationship status:  married to work/career/school rn... so... single.

Favorite color:  This Red [A81407, rgb(168, 20, 7)] and this Teal [005B29, rgb(0, 91, 41)] 

Lipstick or chapstick:  Chapstick, but that’s only because I drink so much throughout the day, lipstick NEVER stays

Last song i listened to: Lol this is funny... “What would you do with a drunken sailor” by the Irish Rovers 

Last movie i watched:  Moana (btw amazing soundtrack)

Top 3 TV shows:  Hmmm... Johnathan Strange and Mr Norrel, Sense8, and my guilty pleasure Supernatural

Top 3 characters:  Childermass (JSaMN), Granny Weatherwax (Discworld), Luthien (Silmarillion)(btw such a badass)

Top 3 ships:  I am so vanilla here lol... LuthienXBeren (Silmarillion), ZeldaXLink (Legend of Zelda), and MerryXPippin (Lord of the Rings)

Books I’m currently reading: Whoops I’m accidentally reading a lot :/

The Lone Ranger and Tonto Fist-Fight in Heaven - Sherman Alexie Reaper Man - Terry Pratchett The Financially Confident Woman - (I forget this author rn) The Magicians - Lev Grossman (I haven’t gotten very far in this one)

As for tagging people, IDK who hasn’t done one of these memes, but sometimes they’re fun... so last few people in my activity feed are: @amy-ghost @rainelily @wolf--shadow @the-tao-of-fandom @angua-von-uberwald @thesaucyninja @vaityadil @pipuhattar @glorfy-the-bright-haired-ellon

[incorrectdiscworldquotes]

Wolfgang, you were named not after one wolf, but after a whole gang of wolves.

Baron von Uberwald, probably.

[zenosanalytic]

Discworld: The Fifth Elephant

This one’s another theme title, like Jingo, and the theme THIS time is unstated/invisible/minor/ephemeral/unknown/dead/nonexistent things that, regardless, happen to VERY important, and to influence events and behavior deeply.

Though, tbf, what Uberwaldians might call a “fifth elephant”, seems somewhat like what we readers might call “the elephant in the room”. There’s a nice irony in that, though, since “the elephant in the room” is a huge and obvious problem no one wants to deal with or acknowledge, whereas a “fifth elephant” is an invisible or unknowable influences everyone acknowledges. I’m basically just going to list and discuss the “Fifth Elephants” that jumped out at me while reading.

The Fifth Elephant itself. It’s mentioned as a dwarven myth near the start of the book and not really mentioned after, yet it is the source of Uberwald’s mining wealth, thus the draw of of the outside world’s attentions, thus the impetus for the weres’ plot, the dwarves’ civil strife, and the main action of the text. It also rears up again at the end as the true reason for the visit, during Sybil’s negotiations with the Low King. As an aside, I just want to say how much I LOVE the idea of fat, treacle, and other such “organic” mines, as a Fantasy Worldbuilding decision :] Particularly given the geological approach Dwarves take to bread and other confections :] :]

Candlefat. Fat is sort of looked down on by most of the characters in the book when put next to Uberwald’s gold, iron, and other mineral wealth, but it’s what A-M, and A-M’s “progressive” society, run on. And it is, literally, running under the surface of the whole place, erupting at point like Yellowstone geysers. As the setting for Vimes’ final fight with Wolfgang’s ...wolf gang(well, were gang)... it enacts a quite direct and literal influence over the plot. And, returning to the above para, it’s the final prize for Vimes’ efforts, and reward for A-M’s diplomatic victory in the region.

Silver. This is a lesser and more subtle example, but I think that actually makes the fit better. It’s very rarely mentioned -once to say that it’s banned under the Diet of Bugs, once again at the end- but its value is keenly felt by the reader through its lack and all the fighting against werewolves. Which is pretty cool from a meta standpoint, too, as it turns a necessity of the story -not having any silver around so that the werewolves provide a serious threat to the protags- into a tool for increasing the reader’s emotional engagement, and does it with a plausible in-universe justification. More prosaically the absence of its use and the license that gives the weres emphasizes it’s importance. The reader is shown, directly, how the prohibition on silver mining allows the current power-structure to exist and keeps the peace, and by closing the books with the Dwarves reopening their silver mines in response to the weres’ violation of the Diet, declares the collapse of that order and the rising of a new one, more in-line with A-M’s industrial, commercial, “civilized” worldview.

Vampires. We only see ONE vampire, and she’s sworn off blood, but we know from the Diet, and Uberwaldean architecture, and the decisive role Lady Margolotta repeatedly plays in the story, and her patronage of the Igors(and how we’re introduced to them through her) how powerful, influential, and important to Uberwaldean society vampires are. And, through the unnamed and unseen members of her Recovery Group, we know not only that there are more vampires, but that there are also unreconstructed ones. Which leads to a sort of second-tier Fifth Elephant re: Lady Margolotta’s power: there are other vamps but they don’t interfere in Vimes’ mission, despite the importance of it to Uberwald’s future, suggesting that crossing Margolotta, despite her non-traditional choices which MUST annoy some of this, is not something other vamps feel willing or able to do.

Wolfgang’s plot. Its fullness is not revealed til the end though it, and thwarting it, forms the main-action of the book.

Angua’s past, and particularly her family politics. Wolfgang’s motivations are not entirely political but also personal(a nice riff on Carrot’s “Personal isn’t the same as Important”); Angua was the only one who could stand up to and defeat him, and he resents this, and that she left, and that she is romantically involved with a particularly tall dwarf. Serafine’s shared anger over this, which she sees as an abandonment and repudiation, is how she justifies giving Wolfgang his head. One can also take this into more pretentious territory :p Angua, through her place in the A-M City Watch, represents and is creating a world in direct opposition to the one Wolfgang represents and want to bring into being. So, in both a familial and philosophical sense, the font of Wolfgang’s actions, the plots which drove the main-action, are founded in his antagonism with Angua.

Dee, Dwarf Gender, and Cheri. This is another one, like Silver, that flies low under the radar but ends up having played a huge part in the story. Dee went along with Wolfgang’s plan, and destroyed the Scone, primarily in an attempt to halt the changes in Dwarven society Cheri had, by having the courage to be herself, set in motion. Dee wanted to stop these changes out of projected self-loathing and frustration over her own inability, as a deep dwarf, to express her feminine identity. So, without Dee’s envious anger at Cheri’s freedom of identity, Wolfgang’s plan would have come to nothing.

Carrot’s feelings for Angua. Until now, we’ve always only seen Angua and Carrot’s relationship from her perspective, and even here Carrot’s feelings, in true Fifth Elephant style, go unspoken. However we do see them, quite explicitly, put into action. Angua always feared Carrot cared more for the city and the Watch than for her. Carrot resigns his commission and abandons the city to the tender mercies of a fright-mad Fred Colon to pursue her. He chases her through winter cold, hunger, and exhaustion without once mentioning any of it. In fact, in a rather excellently explicative literary move, Pratchett leaves all of this to be mentioned by Gaspode, and described by Angua, after she had saved him from his own poor decisions. We also get to see more hints at Carrot’s hidden depths in general; not only through the immediate leap to resigning his commission(suggesting a guilty jump to self-blame, via his love for the City and the Watch and the alienation and insecurity it caused her, in Angua’s departure), but also through hints at his perception, his capacity for cruelty, deception, and manipulation, and even, through his frightening smile, the brittleness of his usual “civilized” behavior.

The lives and world of wolves. Through the Howl, Gavin, and Angua/Carrot/Gaspode’s travels, we see how complex and influential the lives of wolves on the Disc can be.

Gaspode. This is a rather direct one. Gaspode convinces humans to do what he wants them to by exploiting the fact that they, knowing “dogs can’t talk” will rationalize away his arguments and demands as their own thoughts. He’s a literal, doggy embodiment of the entire Fifth Elephant concept.

Sybil’s pregnancy. It is the unspoken, but rather obvious from even the beginning, motor of her actions in the book; a situation not mentioned til the end, but constantly important both for why she was there and, more metawise, for making the dangers Vimes’ faces more suspenseful for those readers who realize what she’s trying to tell Sam for most of the book. Without the pregnancy she might not have insisted on coming, and those wouldn’t have been there to seal the deal, either.

History. Much of the behaviors of the Uberwaldians towards the characters is influenced by the history of Dwarf/Troll/Human/Undead violence there. Detritus alludes to this once when confronted with the troll head in the embassy, it is referenced a second time in the clear absence of mounted(presumably human and dwarf) heads from the von Uberwald’s wall, and there is a constant reminder of it in the treatment of Detritus by the Uberwaldians Vimes’ group encounters. I AM kind of disappointed that Cuddy, maybe via the helmet he gave Detritus, didn’t turn out to be a Chekov’s Gun for this book though, at it would have fit really well thematically for his friendship to Detritus to pop up again and be important in this book.

Vetinari’s past. There’s barely any discussion of it, but what there is assures us that it is one major reason why Margolotta is interested in Vimes in the first place. She acts, to help or hinder, in response to her past with Vetinari, and her relationship to him, whatever that is.

Related to the above, Margolotta’s interests, which are never directly mentioned or addressed, but which we know also motivate her actions, and thus influence how the book plays out.

The Beast. This is a great, though direct, example of a “Fifth Elephant”. It’s what Vimes calls his desire to do violence, to act reflexively on hate, to just burn the whole stinking rotten world down if he can. He describes it directly as an internal motivation that is always there, always threatening to get out, always trying to influence his actions, but which he keeps contained, controlled, and never mentions. It is, literally, an unmentioned influence he is always having to deal with and work his way around.

The Igors. They are a background to Uberwaldian, and particularly Noble-Uberwaldian, life, taken as a given and rarely mentioned, but always there, managing the health of the people in the region through their mysterious medical expertise. Where they come from and what, exactly, they do isn’t precisely known, and yet they are incredibly important to the Uberwald.

Networks and Communications, both of which are invisible, non-corporeal, yet very real, things. The Howl, the Clacks, Dwarf Rumor, the Igor Organ Donation service, Margolotta’s informants, the Black Ribboners, Copperness; as themes, Networks and Communications come up again and again and again.

Unspoken Rules. The Lore, Hot Pursuit, the 12 Steps, Wolf social cues, Dwarven law, the nuances of Command and Rulership implied through Colon and Vetinari’s parts in the story, probably lots of stuff I’m forgetting.

Wallace Sonky, referenced directly as an unsung, little recognized hero for his prophylactics and how they’ve slowed A-M’s population growth.

Knockermen. Unseen, considered dead by their families, working in the dark of new delvings, covered head to toe in armor which obliterates their private identities, and the absolute heart of dwarven identity, mythology, belief, and politics since their leaders are almost exclusively chosen from this class. And of course, knockermen also form the core of the “Deep Dwarves”, essentially a priest-caste who deliberately eschew sunlight and the surface, making them an “invisible”, underground, influence.

Natural Gas. It’s invisible and without scent, but it will most certainly “influence” anyone who comes into close contact with it in a whole host of ways.

The Scone of Stone. Most Dwarves, even underground ones, will never see it, yet who sits upon and protects it arbitrates their entire world. Its power and influence comes not from itself, but from the place it holds in their culture and mythology through B’rian(sp?) Bloodaxe and the opera/stories/myths revolving around him.

Ideas. The current Scone is not THE original Scone in a physical sense. And yet, in a very real and practical sense, it carries the concept of the Scone with it, and so all the believe and functionality the original Scone carried, and so it IS “The Thing and the whole of the Thing”. This idea comes up in one other major way through Rhys Rhysson’s explanation of “Family Tools” in the dwarven mindset. Tools get old and worn and they break, and when they do the broken piece is replaced or repaired. After a certain point the tool is no longer, physically, the same tool that it once was, and yet it remains “the Family Axe”, or whathaveyou, because it continues to carry the idea and identity of the original. Basically Ideas, which are formless and metaphysical and exist only within the brains of living creatures, persist beyond the death of those who hold them and even the destruction of those objects they were invested in. They exist and influence without any real existence. Ideas are “the Thing and the Whole of the Thing”.

Culture. The Fifth Elephant is a story of cultures in conflict. A-M, and it’s culture of innovation, “progress”, and openness, is drastically changing the Disc, and other cultures, whether that of the Dwarves, the wolves, or the Uberwaldeans, are forced to respond to it. The influence of culture is shown not only through the actions self-conception brings out in others(Dee’s destruction of the Scone, Wolfgang’s plot to keep A-M out of the Uberwald, the peculiar individuation within the corporate identity Igors share), but also through this direct clash of cultures, most visibly displayed through Vimes’ interactions with Uberwaldean figures.

Choice. Albrecht(and any number of Dwarves before him) chooses to keep the secret of the Scone’s true nature. Dee chooses to destroy the Scone. Vimes chooses, again and again, to be civilized and rule-bond. Skimmer chooses to stay at the tower, and to check the door.  The Igors choose their calling, and the good it can do for others, over their own lives. The Dwarves choose to believe in “Dwarfishness”, even when they live on the surface, in the light, in A-M. Choice, that ephemeral, invisible, here-and-gone thing, again and again shifts the story, and makes the world it takes place in.

Discipline. Margolotta and the Black Ribboners. Vimes. Angua. Gavin. Cheri. These characters stick to their choices, no matter what it costs them, and live authentically, and in doing that they, without really meaning to, drive the story and change the Disc.

Belief. This is probably the biggest and most central Fifth Elephant of the book. Through Wolfgang’s philosophy and Dee’s internalized self-hate, it drives the main-action of the plot. Through Vimes’ dedication to Civilization it informs all his choices in the book. Through Dwarfishness, the Low King(basically a Dwarf Pope), and the Scone of Stone, it is the motivation and central suspense(the possibility of civil war in Vimes’ fails) of the book.

Ok I think that’s everything. I know some of these are more cursory than they deserve, but I was kinda getting tired of writing there at the end -__- Also: for IRL reasons I wrote this over the course of about a week, and read the book two weeks ago, and I was much clearer on the book when I started writing it than when I finished it just now -__- -___-

All in all I really liked this book and its focus on politics. I also thought it did a great job of showing how the personal IS the political and vice versa, and how pretty much everything is “political”. Comments and questions welcome, though it may take me awhile to respond. If you read all of this Good on You :p