#with being left out of Joker's narrative

[psalmsofpsychosis]

You know, i've been thinking about the way Batman keeps danger and weapons so close to his body, so tight to himself, practically tied around his neck, that joker often has no way left but to grab for him if he wants something Batman has. Batman does not want to be left out of Joker's plans, his story, he wants in on Joker's narrative by any means he can make it happen. It's such particular "you take me with you wherever you are, it's your punishment, just as it's my punishment to take you with me wherever i am" statement. Batman actively leaves no choice for Joker but to get very very close to him and claim him as part of his win or his loss. I mean,

he didn't have to. he could've put the key in one of his waist pouches, push it into the back of his left boot, he could've tied it around his bicep, i dont care— he could've done whateverthefuck with it. But he had to put it around his neck, and intentionally invite Joker to "come and get it". Something something classic cliche of the way lovers' bond is signified by a necklace-adjacent item and the way they interact with it; hold unto it, toss it, tie it around their necks, giving it back, not giving it back, necklaces as items of reverance and revenge. Something something a tie around neck being a sign of being claimed and owned,

[distort-opia]

I JUST FOUND OUT THAT JOKER AND SUPERMAN SWAPED BODIES?? (it's a very yaoi plot wtf) HOW IS IT POSSIBLE?? HOW DID BRUCE REACT??WHY DOES IT SEEM LIKE SUPERMAN AND JOKER HAVE A KIND OF UNCLASSIFIABLE TENSION BETWEEN THE PAST FEW YEARS?? 😭 (sorry, just wanted to know if you know which comic that happened in, you don't need to answer the rest, XOXO)

Hah. Yeah that is a thing that happened, in General Mills Presents: Justice League (2011) #9. Fortunately we do see how Bruce reacts, because Bruce swaps bodies with Lex Luthor. It's a fun little issue with some interesting tidbits:

Love how Bruce is like "Joker's got ADHD on steroids, my guy. He can handle your powers." But also, seeing as Joker had no issue with controlling Superman's body, he could've easily done more damage-- but he only chooses to do some ultimately harmless pranks.

Actually, there's been more Superjokes crumbs recently, most notably in Action Comics. In a story arc that has a magic spell turn everyone into a Bizarro version of themselves, Joker is obviously... the only truly sane one left, because he got reversed. Clark goes to him for help in order to stay lucid, to be able to fight Bizarro within his own mind. He dies over and over (a cheeky reference to Emperor Joker, methinks), and seemingly Bizarro has won, when Joker pretty much saves the whole planet by talking Clark back into sanity:

Action Comics (2016) #1063

Did I mention this is some of the most nuanced Joker writing I've seen in recent years? :)

It's all very sad, Clark even calls Bizarro Joker a "friend" afterwards.

I do agree there's a kind of tension between Superman and Joker, simply because they're both important people to Bruce. There's similar narrative tension between Joker and Dick, for instance. Or Joker and Selina. All of them play different roles in Bruce's life, but something Dick, Selina and Clark have in common is tethering Bruce to the light; keeping him sane, helping him walk the line between the best and the worst of himself. It's obviously interesting to put them in relation to Joker, who's... well, trying to make Bruce worse, but also representative of Bruce's darkness, a twisted mirror of him. This is why the premise of Injustice: Gods Among Us is so good, too-- it's literally the product of a Superbatjokes triangle. Bruce thinks Clark is so inherently good and infallible in that goodness, that it pisses Joker off and makes him jealous, so he goes out of his way to prove that Superman can be broken. So then Superman kills Joker, who Bruce cared about, even "loved" (to quote what Clark himself accuses him of). And Bruce can't get over it, despite having excused murders from loved ones before, being quite unreasonable in his treatment of Clark and arguably pushing him further into becoming the worst version of himself... when he could've tried to help. (It kinda sends me that Batman/Catwoman also had Selina kill Joker. But only when Bruce was dead because otherwise Bruce would've been mad. Do you see the pattern here, lol.)

Sorry, ended up rambling. But yeah, Clark and Joker have had some interesting interactions for sure!

[quacktities]

I feel like the appeal of C! Quackbur (to me at least) is just how versatile it is as a ship and the range it has.

You want a subtle rivals to lovers, mutual pinning and longing but one of them is repressing his own feelings because he hates himself too much to let someone get attached to him ship dynamic with a political backdrop? You want longing gazes, knowing looks and the unspoken truth that, maybe, just maybe this relationship and understanding between them goes deeper than either of them let on or want to admit? BOOM. Lmanburg election arc Quackbur!

You want all of that but with more tension, high stakes, mental illness, a very "forbidden romance" vibe with an enemies that have been in love with eachother for a long time but can now finally be on the same side and possibly act on their feelings dynamic (but theyre doomed by the narrative so it was never going to work out. Or maybe it will, who knows. Maybe this time they find solace in eachother. Maybe this time Quackity stops him before its too late. Maybe this time it doesnt end in flames. Who knows. Its up to you really, if you keep telling the story over and over again, maybe this time they get their happy ending here and it doesnt have to be a tragedy. Your choice really). Pogtopia era C! Quackbur!

You want fucked up grief and angst and reminiscing on the past and being haunted by what could have been? You want seeing the spectre of your dead friend (if he was truly your old enemy, why does he feel like a past lover to you) and wondering if maybe he remembers everything you both went through the same way you do and if maybe his heart aches when he sees you the same way yours aches when you see him but you know he isn't the same and you'll never see the old verison of him ever again... but hes here... as a ghost.. and that has to be worth something right. (Is it a miracle you can still see him or are you forever being tormented by what you can never have?). BOOM, Butcher arc C! Quackity and Ghostbur (or Aftermath C! Quackbur as I call them)

You want all of that, but hey. What if we brought back the guy. What if it didn't have to end in death? What if they could reunite and speak again after everything? Would they even get along? You want the culmination of years of pinning, grief, hurt, and mutual obsession? Do they truly love each other, or have they fallen in love with the idealised verisons of each other they have in their own heads? Maybe this time, they'll actually get their shit together and talk. There really isn't anything stopping them now, other than themselves and each other. Maybe C! Quackity finally finds someone who respects him, is dedicated to him, and can engage with him on the same intellectual level in C! Wilbur. Maybe C! Wilbur finally finds someone who makes him feel human and can challenge him and his more self-destructive behaviours while still loving him in C! Quackity. Maybe this time, they get to understand each other, and they get to heal. Maybe this time, it's not too late, and sure, they dont have the healthiest relationship, but they're working on it, and they're okay for once. Just this once. Maybe. Or maybe you don't want that. Maybe it is too late for them. Maybe they'll never have what they once had, and they're both left with bitter hatred and longing for the past that grows weaker by the day as the rose tinted filter starts to fade. Maybe they make each other worse. Maybe the closest they ever get to being close to each other is by hurting each other. Maybe the only times they hold hands are when they're catching each other's bloody fists. Maybe they're both too far gone now. Maybe they've hurt each other too much to ever be vulnerable with each other. Maybe it's just too late for them. Maybe it was never meant to be. You want a joker card ship dynamic that can either end in healing and a happy ending or in an even more fucked up tragedy? Or both! Why not. BOOM. Post revival C! Quackbur

[boyfridged]

it's been a while since i posted about it but i do have a whole tag #the worst thing about love dedicated to that theme and i will always treasure the idea (supported by canon) of jason being cursed with accurate memory over the jason-with-varying-forms-of-amnesia fanon. rhato (2011) #3 might be the only good thing written by lobdell in how it aligns with it... jason's fond memory of bruce staying with him instead of going to patrol is a curse to him because it singles him out in a world that has forgotten. in aditf, bruce chooses following the joker instead of going after jay -- and we now know that jay's bitterness irt that matter originated from his expectations built by bruce himself, who was earlier ready to forgo vigilante responsibilities to take care of him... and as i said before, for jay post-res, aditf lasts forever: he's still daring his father to choose him, even if he does not realise it, even if his own identity is too melted into the mask, even if what he wants is bruce sitting on the couch next to him still in costume and not in civvies. he cannot explain it even to himself. and the world in which that was an option- in which there were no repercussions for bruce choosing jason, is long gone. bruce had his part in it. the narrative was already reshaping itself to expel jason early post-crisis, and his death only cemented it-- more than that, bruce's grief did it, it reshaped his own memories of jason as angry, of his expectations as illogical and even petty. jason comes back to a world that others him. and in order to come back to it, he strikes a miltonian pose-- playing the role of a villain since there is nothing else left, no other way to reintegrate himself into this new fabric of universe. but the dissonance between that pose and his memory will only isolate him further, making him hope. hope is a hostile thing for jason todd. so in rhato (2011) #3 he chooses to forget. forgetting does not stick. it never does. the memory will be back and incline him to reach out again, uselessly. the worst thing about love is that he remembers it.

[umbrellajamming]

*steeples fingers and stares at my tablet with gimlet eyes*

so. Road to NML. You mean to tell me that the reason the rest of the country, Congress, and the President himself decided to write Gotham off, blow the bridges, and isolate everyone left - all criminals and asylum lunatics and 'undesirables', of course - was in large part due to *checks notes* a satanic rock star's unnatural, irresistible charisma and cult-like media manipulations aimed at dooming the city for his own benefit?

and that in order to find out what actually happens to this villain, who disappears from the Batman and 'Tec storylines...I'd have to *checks notes* read Azrael's event issues?

....yeah, PASS. I only included JPV's book on my reading list when I absolutely had to (*cough* whenever Cass pops up *cough*), so it's off to the wiki summaries for me!

...but okay, on the one hand I find it very funny how thoroughly fandom has excised this demonic media influencer aspect from the collective consciousness of NML - or at least it had never made its way to me via either fic or fandom posts. I know how few people read comics in general in this fandom, and even for those who do, NML is a Beast that only a percentage have tackled (see: me just starting to pick away at it!), so honestly it's not that surprising.

and like it can easily be left out of the story and still leave it coherent lmao!! One can certainly argue things are in fact neater that way; certainly it's not something that would ever be kept (or at least not in the same form) if NML were adapted to another medium, except as perhaps a normal media demagogue (or a montage of them).

but on the other hand...hmm. Thinking about Hurricane Katrina hitting all of six years after the NML storyline played out. And the debate over whether funds should be used for reconstructing New Orleans and other massively damaged areas. And people around the country wondering if New Orleans would or should be rebuilt at all. Or if a vibrant, historic city would just be basically wiped off the map.

I know this is a conversation that happens everywhere and every time a major disaster wrecks a city. There are always huge fights over disaster aid and funding allocations of any kind.

but man. It's something to see this fictionalized depiction in such close proximity to a real life disaster that paralleled it so strongly, and to know that - yes, there are always people who Do Not Abandon Their Homes and work to reclaim them. Yes, massive amounts of aid (federal and otherwise) and federal reconstruction funding did get dispensed. Yes, people cared, and yes, we rebuilt.

so...maybe we do actually need the demonic social media influencer's evil powers in order to comic book logic explain how everyone in the country turned their backs on Gotham and created No Man's Land.

like - no, it's not necessary. the narrative would work without it. and yet...

the premise imagines - requires? - a significantly more callous, selfish populace. Still plausible and compelling! Possibly even stronger as a story since the turnaround for No Man's Land still hinges on winning the country over to open Gotham back up, let aid in, and rebuild. But. You do have to start from - kind of a bleaker take on humanity?

it also kind of reminds me of what scintillyyy pointed out a few weeks ago about Dick killing the Joker, and how actually there's an important comic book superpower interaction going on there, too, with Rancor present massively amplifying Dick's hate and anger to push him over the edge.

but so few people ever notice or remember that and it certainly isn't one of those things that gets transmitted via fandom osmosis. (It was news to me!!) People focus on Dick breaking down and letting loose solely due to being pushed too far.

and that's extremely compelling on its own! It is! Just like the no-satanic-Nick-Scratch NML.

just thinking about fandom's tendency to ellide the supernatural or powered influences that are canonically affecting a situation, in order to explore/focus on more purely humanistic explanations or motivations...that actually end up being darker than what we might reasonably expect from real life, or from a character's typical values.

like it's part wanting to brush off comic book nonsense, part wanting to dive into gritty realism (that's not always realistic), part not having all the information because of learning things secondhand so you construct the most reasonable explanation...idk it's just interesting.

anyway.

more importantly: Dick and Tim are adorable in 'Tec 727-729!! Especially love them trading off yelling each other's names in fear/alarm, and also trading off protecting each other - Dick's "You hurt that kid and you're gonna be eating through a tube!" and Tim's clever solo rescue of a thoroughly captive Dick via clever use of a voice modulator and a two-way radio. The Boys 😊

[goingbuggy]

thank you, you’re the best. I will keep it short.

I wrote this to someone because I disagree with shuggy being great story in canon. But I thought longer and it turned out into more thoughts. First I do enjoy shuggy. I like them more as brothers and I like crocbug more. But I do like shuggy art sometimes.

Most of the story of shuggy is buggy being constantly angry at shanks. Every scene is just him being bitter, while shanks is chill. He’s angry because he’s not like shanks and blames himself for it. But shanks can’t help with that. It’s not abusive but you know how some DC fan are saying how joker is not harley LI but her origin story? I think it’s shuggy. Shanks is buggy begging. The have this bond but it’s over and not useful. What is left is buggy obsession which has to end. It’s without shanks reaction.

And both of those characters have more interesting and impactful relationships with other characters around them. Mostly shanks. He has people around him that are not jealous of him and are EQUAL. And buggy been replaced I think on purpose. Benn Beckman is there to be this close support that buggy could never be. Mihawk is rival, like buggy was in younger years but he’s meaningful to challenge shanks with respect and push him forward. Both of them make shanks better and fill those roles buggy couldn’t.

Buggy is just starting his bonds. He now has cross guild. And we know they’re gonna be for buggy in the future.

What do you think? I read OP many times and I think it does make sense and that is how the story will go. But you can call me out if you disagree. I respect you.

Woah, this is a long one! I just want to say, firstly, that you are entitled to your interpretations of Shanks and Buggy's relationship. However, I think you are going about this in a strange way. A bond is not measured by its usefulness, and claiming that Buggy has been "replaced" shows that you are viewing their dynamic from a distanced, almost utilitarian perspective; this isn't wrong, per se, but you are talking about characters who are meant to be people. And most people are irrational, emotional creatures who don't view their friendships as something profitable or disadvantageous. Buggy cannot be replaced by anyone, because Buggy is not a role to be filled in Shanks' life. Buggy was always just Buggy to Shanks. They were not friends because they only saw each other as useful. I think their interactions during the Wano flashback show that pretty clearly.

To address your point about Shanks and Buggy not being equals, though, I think this is a topic Oda has intentionally laid out, as it directly relates to Buggy's narrative. Buggy is someone who yearns to be seen as an equal -- just look at his reaction in Marineford when Whitebeard addresses him. (The blush is so cute, lmao.)

Buggy's insecurities are also the reason I believe he chose not to follow Shanks; my post here elaborates, but to sum it up neatly, Buggy immediately assumed he'd be working "under" Shanks, when Shanks only asked for Buggy to stay by his side. I truly think Shanks has always viewed Buggy as his equal -- it's just a matter of Buggy realizing that.

At this point in the story, they are more balanced than ever: both emperors with massive influence, albeit in different ways. As Buggy says himself, they are "on equal footing again." So, when you say their relationship has been unequal in parts, I don't disagree -- but that's not a flaw. That's intentional. It's an explicit aspect of the way their dynamic is written. It's a major source of their miscommunication.

Cross Guild is also currently a relationship in Buggy's life, but we don't exactly know where it's going. I would absolutely love it if Mihawk and Crocodile began to believe in Buggy and support him -- mostly because it would be hilarious -- but as of now, it is nowhere near a genuine bond. It is strictly business, and ironically, deeply unequal in terms of power dynamics. Buggy has only flipped the script on them recently, starting in chapter 1082, so we have to wait and see how that progresses.

At the end of the day, it's your opinion -- you can view Buggy's relationship with Shanks as uninteresting, and that's totally fine! But the lens with which you view their dynamic could use some adjusting. Your complaints stem from personal tastes, not fundamental problems with Shanks and Buggy's narrative.

[thefrogsennaneverfound]

let's not forget that ricciardo once made a bet with helmut marko back in 2018 that bottas would lose his seat by the end of the season. all purely for his own shits and giggles.

fed the narrative that red bull were doing him dirty causing a load of hate to be sent to verstappen by his pack of rabid fans, when in reality verstappen was just better than him.

was happy to let his rabid stans mock esteban ocon's ability all across social media when they were teammates at renault and made a few sideways jabs egging them on, because esteban was losing to him.

spent the months before joining mclaren making digs about norris's age and experience, disguised as jokes but clearly mind games, and spoke about norris like he was a child who needed to be shown by the master (him) how to drive. (boy did karma bite him on that one)

egged on the interviewers making mugging jokes and then pretended to grab norris's new watch off his wrist during an interview just days after norris had been held in a chokehold and mugged, then laughed like norris was being a bad sport when he understandably didn't find the jokes funny and walked out of the interview.

put out that pr statement about being committed to mclaren purely for pr purposes, bringing a deluge of hate onto the team when it was announced they'd dropped him. later came out he already knew the writing was on the wall at that point so clearly did it just to try to turn the narrative into a pity party for him before word got out.

he/his team also deliberately fed misleading information to espn during his time at mclaren saying that norris was only beating him because it was the only car he had ever driven in f1 and it was tailored around him and implying norris was overrated, only for him to be forced to admit when directly asked in an interview once he had left the team that the car hadn't suited norris either and that he was frequently baffled by the things he could see on the data that norris was able to do with the car that he just wasn't able to.

agreed pre-race in baku 2022 to the strategy of the two mclaren's holding station in whichever order they were at the end of the first lap in order to work together to use drs to keep the alpine of ocon behind, only for him to then get on the radio knowing it would be broadcast to whinge about how unfair it was that lando was holding him up from getting past alonso, forcing the team to tell him no they weren't swapping them and making the team look bad. he was pissy he hadn't been the lead mclaren at the end of the lap so had to hold behind and knew exactly what he was doing with that radio message. admitted after the race that the strategy had been arranged beforehand and that he wouldn't have got past alonso either as the mclaren was so slow on the straight, but by then the damage was done and norris and the team were being dragged all over social media by his rabid dog-pack.

never once condemned his fans for bullying his mclaren mechanics on social media (to the point one of their wives was posting begging the staniels to stop because it was having an adverse affect on the mechanics' mental health), didn't condemn them sending death threats to his engineer after the radio in baku when tom stallard asked him if the car was okay (he didn't realise ricciardo had crashed at this point, he thought the car had broken down), made digs that fed into his stans mocking norris's very real mental health struggles, and didn't condemn them from sending hate to a mental health charity that mclaren work with.

took visible pleasure in being undeservedly handed de vries's seat on a silver platter last season.

he is not mr nice guy at all. he is incredibly manipulative and good at playing the pr game. he also gets away with some really cruel jokes and jabs by putting on the 'joker' smile and playing the it's only banter card.

egged on the interviewers making mugging jokes and then pretended to grab norris's new watch off his wrist during an interview just days after norris had been held in a chokehold and mugged, then laughed like norris was being a bad sport when he understandably didn't find the jokes funny and walked out of the interview.

Another very salient point I'd forgotten about. Thanks for pointing out this and so many other examples of his nasty behaviour.

he is not mr nice guy at all. he is incredibly manipulative and good at playing the pr game. he also gets away with some really cruel jokes and jabs by putting on the 'joker' smile and playing the it's only banter card.

Absolutely; this takes us right back 'round to the 'charming bully' analogy. The likes of Tsunoda don't make a fuss about his bullying so he gets away with it. Norris does make it clear that he doesn't think it's in the least bit funny (it was downright fucking cruel to bate him like that) so he twists it to make the victim look bad. Utterly vile behaviour and, sadly, Ricciardo is a long way from being in a minority of people who get away with it.

I really do appreciate you taking the time to add to the ever lengthening list of why that obnoxious twerp is such a wrong 'un. It's likely that some folks reading our descriptions of his behaviour will recognise people in their own lives who've been getting away with treating them badly just because they know they can get away with it. Maybe it'll give them the courage to be a Lando rather than a Yuki (although I don't mean to disparage Tsunoda) and make a stand.

[moominvalleysunset]

Jack & Joker episode 10 thoughts on P'Oh's death

I saw a poster who said they were abandoning the show because of their treatment of Trans characters (Their examples: making P'Saran's character Nulek the butt of a joke and killing off P'Jennies character P'Oh quite gruesomely.) And while I completely understand that this is a sensitive topic, especially right now, where Trans rights are being attacked in many if not almost all parts of the world and the result of the US-election does not bode well for a fair and inclusive future (and as you don't know me, let me emphasize: Trans rights are human rights, end of story!), I cannot agree in this instance. Loooong-ass Essay under the cut, be warned!

First of all, Thai culture is a special case as far as gender, gender identity and gender expression goes, both historically and in the progressive movements that are happening both in Thai society and in the entertainment (specifically the BL) industry. You simply cannot judge it solely by Western (or even other Asian) cultural conventions and standards, and by viewing it even more exclusively through an USA-centric perspective you are not doing anyone any favors.

I think that everyone watching Thai BLs regularily at least knows a little about the underlying cultural issues and practices, but for those who would like to learn more, I would recommend reading Dr. Thomas Baudinette's extremely fascinating and well-researched book Boys Love Media in Thailand (https://thomasbaudinette.com/boys-love-media-in-thailand-2022-3/) , where he also touches on the development of presenting trans and genderqueer characters in Thai TV and film (though only up until 2021/22, and the last two years have seen significantly more progress, diversity and inclusivity in Thai media both in front of and just as if not more importantly, behind the camera.) It's a great read, and I'm looking forward to the updated edition coming out next year. Or at least read a Wikipedia article or two about the subject if you haven't already, it's extremely interesting!

Now secondly, I want to take a look at the narrative. First of all, the two trans/genderqueer characters mentioned above are not the only ones in the show. We have Nulek's friend Pharao, Joke's disguise as Jessie (not a girl but a genderqueer person in drag, and emphatically NOT a caricature), Arun as a femme character and not to forget P'Oh's business – and maybe life – partner, a Trans man. Neither of them has been singled out, ridiculed or punished for their not conforming to any hetero- or cisnormative standards in the story (except for Arun by his dad, and nowhere is this presented as anything but reprehensible behaviour by a father). They are normal people struggling with social injustice and mundane problems, like anyone else. Which brings me to the first of the two instances mentioned, Nulek. While I understand that leaving them at a trash heap (I think we all can agree that getting them out of the way was just a plot thing that needed to happen) might raise some hackles, they are not the only one left there. The – very cismale – driver that Joke impersonated was also left at the landfill, so it is maybe not all that symbolic? Especially because Nulek and Arun's other subordinate Pharao get their comeuppance later on when they get their wonderfully petty revenge on their fallen boss. They have gained agency, rightfully enjoy their upper hand and are again not being ridiculed by the narrative.

And now P' Oh, played by the wonderful P'Jennie. I am horribly saddened by her senseless death, angry and frustrated, because it was so preventable and unfair, but her being Trans is not the most important part here IMO. She was trying, she was struggling, she was failing, she was succeeding, she was funny and sassy and beautiful and a smart businesswoman, and she was the only character apart from the mains, Toi Ting and Ama (who were not spared, either), whose death would send a big enough shockwave through the community to finally rattle them into fighting back  (but also leave the mains able to function and not utterly paralyse them in grief). That's why neither Toi Ting's dad nor Tattoo's mom were viable options. P'Oh was respected and liked in her community. Having her die was dark as fuck, but narratively speaking IMO necessary, and she didn't die because she was Trans. She died because she was the only character whose death would have the right amount of repercussions. So I cannot agree with the other poster that killing her was "shitting on Trans women". Really not.

Thirdly, we have to leave the show and look beyond, behind the camera. These people are longtime collaborators and by all accounts great friends and business partners. P'Jennie is a star who has written lakorn and BL history with her roles. There is nothing but love and respect for her from the makers of the show, you can be sure of that. And I would really like to hear her speak about her character and her role here. And Nuleks actor P'Saran and their friend Pharao have been collaborating with War, Yin and their managers since the first En of Love Anthology in 2019/20. YWPBs managers P'Go and P'Aun themselves can be read as femme. YWPBs work environment and the people they choose to collaborate with seem to be progressive, inclusive, diverse and definititely neither cisheteronormative nor tone-deaf to social issues, as we can see in all their works and public presence. Even more so in War and Yin themselves and in what they choose to say, do and stand for publicly. Are they all perfect? No (who is?), but it seems to me that they are trying really hard to do what's right.

So while I of course understand why someone could be triggered, angry and disappointed at what they see as yet another instance of a Trans character being treated unfairly, I would argue that here this anger might be misdirected and this reading neither does justice to the characters, the narrative, the actors and makers of this show nor to the very real issues Trans and genderqueer people still face in Thailand and around the world.

If you made it this far, thank you for reading my essay/rant and I would be extremely interested in what you have to say in return!

[darkshadow90]

I Didn’t Like Joker 2 (Spoilers Mentioned)

Hey guys. I’ve wanted to post my thoughts on Joker 2. I’m still having trouble putting all my thoughts together especially since I’m really tired, so bear with me. First off before I start my rant, I just want to say to those of you that enjoyed the movie, that’s fine. I’m not trying to take that away from you. Nor I’m I telling you you’re wrong for liking it. You can like whatever you want. That being said, I didn’t like it all. I found it to be really upsetting. I have a lot of similar feelings that other people who didn’t like it have, so I’m probably going to come off as parroting points that people have expressed. But I really do feel the same way.

So when I hear people say, people didn’t want to see Arthur, they wanted to see Joker, yeah, in my case they’re not entirely wrong. Listen, I knew this isn’t supposed to be Clown Prince of Crime Joker. I knew it’s a different take on the character. I didn’t necessarily need to see him going up against Batman. I’m okay with different takes on the Joker. That’s what makes this Joker special. I found him to be unique and his story compelling. If they were going to make a sequel, I wanted to see more of this Joker. I wanted to see more of a continuation of where the first movie left off. But as the previews came out, I realized I might not be getting that. I was still willing to give it a chance. I thought maybe this could be a unique take on the Joker and Harley relationship. Instead I felt like I got slapped in the face and curb stomped.

The sequel basically retcons Arthur’s whole transformation into the Joker. Like, I’m sorry, am I supposed to forget the final scene in the first movie? It’s never mentioned. It was heavily implied he killed the psychiatrist in cold blood, but I guess that guy never existed? So we’re back to Arthur being like he was at the beginning of the first movie. Okay…still gonna see what happens. At least he might get to have some people in his life, like Harley or make friends with some inmates and have some happiness? Nope.

Arthur just gets used and abused by everyone around him and his life is hell. He doesn’t get to have any happiness. Sure it happened in the first movie, but it had the narrative pay off of Arthur becoming Joker and the people who treated him badly getting their comeuppance. Here we’re just watching Arthur’s and essentially Joker’s whole story being destroyed, and him having his dignity taken from him. There’s one scene where we get some of Joker with Gary. I loved it but then it’s completely undercut later on. Also like I said earlier, the Joker at the very end of the first movie wouldn’t have cared that he ruined Gary’s life. At that point, he was completely a monster who didn’t care whether someone was good or bad. He basically gave up on everyone and society and said “Fine, they want a monster? I’ll give them a monster.” The first movie was all about how a person can become a monster from a society without empathy. This movie completely undid all that.

After a little bit of Joker comes out in the scene with Gary, and Joker talking shit about the guards in Arkham, when Arthur is taken back to Arkham, the guards sexually assault him. It’s so unnecessary and really disturbing and upsetting. It didn’t need to be in the movie. At this point Arthur decides he doesn’t want to be Joker anymore, that there was never a Joker, just him. What the fuck, that just shits all over the first movie then. Then at the end of the movie, Arthur gets killed by some random guy who doesn’t even have a name. So basically fuck me and the rest of us who found Arthur to be an interesting character and this Joker’s story compelling. The guy at the end of the first movie who killed a psychiatrist in cold blood? Never existed. He’s a nobody.

It really does feel like this movie was made out of spite for DC fans or really anyone who enjoyed the first movie and resonated with it. I don’t mean to parrot what other people have said, but it does feel like they set out to destroy everything the first movie built up. I guess the message was we shouldn’t like the Joker because he’s bad or whatever. Okay, but like, it’s too late. People liked this take on the character and his story. What, were a few edgelords like “Yeah I feel like Arthur does and I think he’s a hero and I wanna be like him.” Or something? Is that really what Todd and crew took away from people who said they empathized with Arthur and resonated with his story? That they idolized the Joker and wanted be like him? No one was saying that. People can empathize with a villain and not condone their actions.

I guess the joke was on me and a lot of other people the entire time. We got clowned. We had all these theories about the guy in Arkham at the end of the first movie. We wondered who he was or if Arthur ever even existed and the whole story was made up by the Joker to get sympathy from the audience. Turns out it doesn’t matter because that guy never existed and Arthur is nobody. I’m not gonna let it ruin the first movie. I hate this movie. I wish we never got a sequel. Once again, if you like this movie, more power to you. I’m gonna pretend it doesn’t exist.

[trying-out-stuff]

Today's batman issue came out and I'm gonna focus on damian and what might happen and why I'm not happy at all .

My main problem is damian is being left alone with zur (see panels of today) the child here and not with the batfam (minus bruce) the adults... as we see them being together talking without Damian which makes it look as if damian didn't reconnected with them since gotham war (not counting the other books I'm only focusing on the chip run).

Last we saw damian, he was alone helping defeat the villain army in gotham with cass, duke and tim. Since then we had Bruce disconnected from the batfamily and the bat computer while looking for joker. We know Bruce left Dick and Barbara in charge of the family and act as parents for the rest (which kinda weird since all of them not counting Damian are adults with their own personal lives).

Zur decides to upload himself into failsafe and emprison Bruce with joker and other crminals in blackgate and acting out as batman from this issue.

Jason meets up with zur and doesn't really believe it's Bruce while talking to Barbara. My first issue is when Damian shows up to meet up with zur it looks like he isn't connected to oracle (this might end up wrong but for the moment it is) and all the rest of the batfam met up with oracle at her tower.

Which weird, why is Damian alone going to see zur ?

Is he playing double agent ? maybe but I wouldn't be so sure...

We know chip zdarsky likes to uplift Tim by downplaying or denigrating the other robins including Damian (see Tim towards Damian in batman #138). And chip doesn't seem to like Damian all that much.

So narratively speaking, If anything happens to Damian for being with zur I'm gonna blame the batfam and bruce not even joking, Damian is a 14 years old teen who can make choices but isn't supposed to be alone to decide (like hello he was alone during the lazarus tournament and the period when he was excluded from the family and they weren't there for his 14th birthday).

What might happen ?

We know in batman #147 that zur will have a sidekick and I'm very worried it might be Damian...

If it's Damian, I hope it isn't willingly and if it is, he better be a double agent or else...

[fractualized]

Zdarsky’s run on Batman ends soon, thoughts? 🎤

lmao I feel like I could either toss out a dismissive one-liner or rant for like a dozen paragraphs. Guess I'll go with the latter.

We'll, I'm certainly not going to miss him at the helm. I read Batman: The Knight, and even though I agree with the criticism of the end, it showed competent storytelling with a good emotional core, which is the most basic of standards, but let's be real, this is comics, I'll take competent any day. And when his Batman run started, I had caught up on Snyder-King-Tynion Batman and was excited to follow a run in real time.

I'd say I stopped having a good time when Bruce got sent to the alternate universe. Penguin faking his death was fun. Bruce being pursued by a dramatic robot version of himself was fun. Bruce again fretting about protecting the family was… par for the course. Calling back to Zur-En-Arrh didn't bug me because I hadn't read that full storyline yet, so it felt like a gateway to digging back into lore. Bruce surviving a fall through the Earth's atmosphere was too fucking ridiculous but the kind I can look past. (Imagine you're a DC writer. You have the idea: lol what if Batman got out of this by surviving a fall from the moon. You have opened that door in your mind. Do you have the will close it or would you be like FUCK IT LET'S DO IT?)

The Red Mask universe, however, dragged any momentum at that point to a stop, and I honestly don't care enough to dig deep into all the reasons why, which I guess gets at the core of what was wrong with the Red Mask universe. (Skeleton Jim Gordon was the most interesting thing but he was just a temporary side effect or something? Whatever.)

But, of course, since I'm a Joker fan, Darwin Halliday was a major sticking point as the most boring Joker to never joke. Nearly everything Zdarsky did with Joker was a major sticking point.

It still drives me crazy that from Snyder to the Zdarsky run, we had a Joker who tried to force Bruce both away from the batfam and Selina and back to basics multiple times, so their battle could be one-on-one again. We had a Joker who, after Bruce left him to die, was notably depressed and suicidal at the end of Joker 2021. He is still that way at the start of The Man Who Stopped Laughing.

And you could follow from that with the basic beats of what Zdarsky did. You could say Joker is disillusioned with his relationship with Batman, and that's why he turns to Zur-En-Arrh, a real Batman. But no, everything has to be too fucking complicated. We have do yet another retcon of so much other stuff and say that Joker always was looking for Zur. And we have to a weird take on Three Jokers because people were really biting at the bit to get a real answer within canon like a decade after Johns wrote that nonsense?? I don't know, I don't do marketing research, but I'm pretty sure if they just quietly never addressed it, it would be fine.

And the freaking Captio stuff. Ugh. UGH. I really just. I feel like this is a product of overthinking. "Well, Batman is so thoroughly trained, it only makes sense that Joker had at least some of the same training to beat him." No. Fuck that. We don't need that. Joker rivals Batman out of sheer audacity. I like that it doesn't really make sense that a clown pushes him to the limit. I like the juxtaposition of Bruce having to do so much training and learning to survive, but Joker is a cockroach revived by the narrative. I like Joker being a plague and a mystery that Batman cannot resolve. I like Joker being essentially absurd. No, it doesn't make sense, but he's here to stab you out of love and you better know how to dodge.

So much of Batman comics now are not about telling a fun Batman story. They're stories about Batman stories, just circling back and cannibalizing each other into a total fucking mess, and putting the city on the brink of destruction so much that those stakes no longer have meaning. There has to be a writer out there who wants to get back to just telling a smaller action/detective story that makes the reader give a shit about what's happening instead of feeling like maybe they're just not getting it, like they missed homework.

And I say that as someone who started reading Morrison's full run when Zdarsky's started so I could have the Zur background. I had to pause when Morrison's writing got to be too much (for the bad reasons!). I intended to jump back in again, but then Zdarsky's run nosedived and the effort no longer seemed worth it.

Especially when everything paused for Gotham War. Jesus Christ. The only good thing to come out of that was Rosenberg's second Red Hood issue. But speaking of Gotham War, I do wonder if there'll be an article years from now that will reveal Zdarsky had to deal with too much editorial fiat. He had to interrupt his Zur story not only with the badly executed Catwoman plot and the Knight Terrors, but cram in a Three Jokers explanation.

And speaking of Rosenberg, I can't end without mentioning that because he started TMWSL around the same time Zdarsky started on Batman, and they both had their protagonists dealing with other versions of themselves, man, there was such potential for a crossover event. Me and my pals had lots of fun theories about how these series would converge, because the idea that they wouldn't seemed ridiculous. There were two Jokers in TMWSL, and at the same time in Batman #131, Halliday seemed to have created three of them. I didn't like Halliday, but still, what did that mean? It would be ridiculous for those developments to be unrelated, right? RIGHT?

Joke's on us, as usual. 🤪

[weloveakechi]

Here’s the thing about why I think Akechi’s alive and why his return on Christmas Eve is really him.

He shows up to take Akira’s place testifying against Shido. As a simultaneous thank you to Akira and one last fuck you to Shido (Seriously the satisfaction he’d get by being the reason Shido’s crimes stick is not explored enough). It’s great, good for Akira and good for Akechi.

It’s also a thing that is only required because of the deaths and chaos caused in the Metaverse.

But in Maruki’s reality, Shido’s in prison for trying to overthrow the government. That’s it. No Metaverse murders have happened to charge anyone over.

So Akechi showing up to testify and turn himself in makes no sense. To Akechi it does, he still remembers said crimes, but if Maruki’s world were settled? Sae wouldn’t even be there asking the question.

And if Maruki’s very first act after gaining massive powers is to make Akechi stroll back into Akira’s life on Christmas Eve, why not do it in a way that makes it so they can be together right away?

It’s because Akechi is alive and well on Christmas Eve.

It’s him standing there, ready to pay back his debt to Joker and the Thieves in the only way he has left. Maruki has no idea this is happening. He’s still probably reeling from the sudden influx of power streamed over to him post Yaldy going down.

Leaving Akechi just enough time to well and truly assert himself into the narrative and screw with any neat and tidy plans Maruki might be dreaming of.

Maruki steps in only after Akechi’s gone and tossed himself in prison, effectively ruining any chance for Akira and Akechi to spend time together happily. And Maruki can’t have that, he needs to properly thank Akira for all his help (and all that godlike power he’s suddenly got).

So he’s scrambling, and wipes everyone’s records by removing the Metaverse crimes. (It also conveniently means Okumura and Wakaba are back too). And boom happy ending for everyone right? Right? Why aren’t these boys living their happy lives?

It’s the funniest possible reason to have Akechi alive and well. It’s hilarious if Akechi’s alive and the first thing any of us see him do next is becoming an absolute menace to the next godlike being that rolls up threatening to assert control over him. He’s really out here living up to his full potential and creating chaos for everyone (including himself). Truly some Wild Card behavior

[themattress]

Arcane's second season was shakier than the first, but still hit way more than it missed.

With that said, there is one part of it that I am really, really disappointed in.

(SPOILERS BEHIND CUT)

Jinx.

So, the concept for Arcane and whatever shows follow it is that it's the reality behind the world and characters seen in League of Legends. Legends have to come from somewhere, after all, and we see how they came to be in Arcane. And that works...except for Jinx.

In the first season, there was no such problem. It was masterful in being an origin story for Jinx, concluding with her choosing her path and becoming the nihilistic, psychopathic terrorist that would become legendary for her evil deeds. But similarly to Joker: Folie a Deux and how it handled its title character, the second season displayed great narrative cowardice by backtracking on this. It didn't do it immediately, mind you - Act 1 still had Jinx as she was where we left her, someone whose sole motivation in life is to "watch it all burn". She's not pure evil, as displayed by her bonds with Sevika and Isha, but she's also not redeemable.

Yet then Act 2 starts and she's suddenly become this inspiring symbol of resistance for Zaunites even though her actions have made things objectively worse for them by every metric. She resists this label only to later embrace it, becoming a "big fat hero" as she puts it. Then we get the revelation of Warwick being Vander, which is followed by Jinx reconciling with Vi and basically becoming Powder again, which is followed by her heroically saving Caitlyn's life, which is followed by her losing Isha which turns her suicidal only to be talked down from it by Echo which is followed by the finale where....well, if you're reading this far you probably already know. And all of this is executed pretty well, but it begs the question:

"How the fuck did any of that result in THIS being the public perception of Jinx!?"

How did the legend of Jinx become her as a villain and not her as a hero? She had already become viewed as a hero by Zaun even when she technically wasn't one, and then she played a huge and very flashy role in saving Piltover during the final battle, meaning they should also see her more positively now! There is no logical reason that the narrative of her as a loony terrorist who blows shit up for the lolz should be the one enshrined into legend.

And what hurts is that no other character has this issue. Vi, Caitlyn, Jayce, Viktor, Ekko, Heimerdinger, Singed, Warwick, not to mention the inevitable Mel legend that's going to be added to the game like her mother was...you can totally track how their legendary characters were shaped even if it's not wholly reflective of reality with a lot of nuances missing. But Jinx now has a huge disconnect between the person and the legend that doesn't make any sense.

Like I said, it feels like narrative cowardice. The ending of Season 1 had Jinx choosing the "Jinx" chair over the "Powder" chair, telling Vi things can never go back to how they were between them, and then has her let out a scream as she fires her bazooka at Piltover which was clearly meant to symbolize Powder's death cry; through committing this act, Jinx is killing what was left of her old self. The natural follow-up to this was for her to stay as she was presented in Season 2's Act 1 - no morality, no grander purpose, just living for chaos. But Jinx became popular, including with the writers, and they didn't want to commit to the tragedy they'd so excellently built up. It's such a letdown. Arcane and Jinx both deserved a lot better.

[analviel]

Civilian Tim shoots Joker on live television.

It's a whole daydream thing that started with Joker Junior though actually in this AU, there was no Joker Junior, it's just comics Wayne major-shareholder Tim Drake picking up a gun, Joker grinning at him, opening his mouth, and Tim just shoots him.

Something about 'not Robin so does not compromise the symbol and standards the Bats and Birds should always uphold' and it's just ineffecient to let him keep running around.

Like Joker being killed by a 'random Gothamite', which Tim Drake is. No personal grudge, no close family victims more than the usual Gothamite, just some guy in a shirt and pants and a gun on the ground, the Joker in front, and enough 'whatever' vibes. Just another case of, someone has to do it and if no one else is going to be that someone, then yeah I guess Tim can be.

Like, seems like no narrative theme or reason, no poetic justic or irony or a punchline for the Joker, he doesn't know this boy and he couldn't be Batman's civilian ID, was he even old enough for facial hair, just a boy out of the left field.

But ALL the consequences and after effects of it.

[distort-opia]

Do you think giving rise to the Joker would ruin his character?Honestly, in my opinion, it would completely ruin his character. I think the Joker not having a definitive origin is what makes me love the villain. The aspect of him being mysterious, and an unstoppable chaos is absolutely amazing. I honestly lose all desire to read any Joker comics when they create a definitive origin for him. And honestly, I hated that the three jokers were canon.

Myeah, I feel you. There's a reason I haven't kept up with comics recently (besides real life sucking out my soul with the amount of work I have to do). I just don't like what they're doing with Joker, ever since the idea of multiple Jokers resurfaced. Zdarsky and Rosenberg are good writers, but not even them could overcome my utter dislike at the idea of multiple canonical Jokers... I mean it's not their fault, it's fucking Geoff Johns' fault, but still.

I do agree that delving into Joker's backstory so much takes away from his character, although I can't say I am entirely opposed to stories hinting at it or exploring it. It's such an interesting aspect of him, the way he rebuilds himself and his past and his whole personality-- so I don't think this should be left untouched. It should just be done well. The thing about Joker is that he's Batman's narrative foil and parallel; if Batman is human, Joker is human. They both want to be more than that, but at the end of the day they're two human beings, and that's the appeal. If Joker is honestly depicted as an almost supernaturally evil monster whom Bruce cannot defeat... it completely undermines the dynamic. What's interesting is to have Bruce believe these things, and even Joker himself desperately try to leave humanity behind, but then have the story point out that it's just not possible (like Snyder did, God bless). That Joker is still a person, who despite the mystery and the subterfuge, does have a past. But turning that past into a certainty traps the character into a box, when versatility is one of his core traits. Not to mention how badly it fucks him up to imply he never had agency in his becoming as Joker (like in the Multiverse arc with Darwin Halliday).

To sum up, I don't think stories touching on Joker's past entirely ruin him as a villain. I think it very much depends on the capacity of the writer, to handle a character of Joker's complexity.

[mogoce-nocoj]

Spent some time compiling my favourite bokris fics and here they are! This turned out to be rather long because I wrote little descriptions for every fic as well as why I liked them <3

Kisses by applegrass23 I think the first fic on ao3 that solely focuses on Bokris and the one that got me into this ship because while it's angsty and unrequited, I loved the focus on Kris and it's so well written. My heart broke but I loved it so much.

Pink by cursed_throwaway Explicit. Power dynamics and humiliation and a focus on Kris's 🍑. Definitely not everyone's cup of tea, I liked it though.

we don't talk about it anymore by vanvanvanvan Bokris get-together fic with eventual breakup (their “creative differences”) only they don't get back together as a band afterwards. They meet up again eventually and try figuring it out, loved their dynamic and the focus on early bokris.

measured intervals of absence by Anonymous Fell in love with this one. I'd call it a rather experimental narrative, with Bojan trying to negotiate his changing feelings toward Kris and the anxiety he feels. Beautifully written. Very poetic.

(go on) Leave me breathless by Anonymous Explicit. Choking kink negotiations. One of the best bokris dynamics. They're just so loving and the trust they have is beautiful and also, yeah, the choking kink.

Release from the What happens on the bus stays on the bus - Tour Drabble Collection by Anonymous Explicit. Kris has a rough time, Bojan makes him feel better. Sweet and full of comfort and trust.

Ko me tvoj objem zakriva (When I'm in your arms) by Anonymous Longfic, finished. Favourite bokris fic I've ever read but be prepared for a 60k slowburn. Follows Kris from first meeting Bojan to meeting Jan, joining Joker Out and falling in love with Bojan along the way. Includes a lot of references to the band's history such as Kris and Bojan's first meeting, their break, writing vse kar vem, Martin leaving etc. Has my absolute favourite Kris characterisation, addresses his need for control and anxiety moments. His eventual realisation that falling in love with Bojan was inevitable for him as well as him and Bojan figuring out what to do with it really hit me hard, personally. If you like slowburn you will be rewarded with the most beautiful scenes at the end because they're SO sweet to each other and made me cry. If you mention this fic to me I probably won't stop talking about it.

Breakfast by ludolefebvre Coffeeshop AU. Trigger for Kris depression episode. Bojan is the cute server who tries to get through to him. Loved the focus on Kris and Bojan's puppy behaviour, even if it's an AU.

I've never seen you looking so lovely as you did tonight by JuliaBaggins @occhi-verdi-come-il-mare Perfectly encapsulates the post-Stožice high everyone was feeling. Mentions our favourite Kris Stožice outfit and Bojan and him working out their feelings for each other. Their dynamic is beautifully written and I particularly loved how Kris acted in this one <3

Interregnum by Nothing_Rhymes_With_0range Deals with Bojan trying to deal with his feelings after Martin has left the band and finding his solution in Kris. They're so unsure in this but also very sweet and yeah. They'll figure it out, as long as they have each other.

K is for Kind by Calli_Thaala Bojan and Kris finding adjectives for each other. Short, sweet, captures their dynamic perfectly.

Be My Baby by zojassparkle Longfic, finished. One of the best bokris longfic out there, following a pining Kris discovering himself and eventually realising that his feelings might not actually be unrequited after all.

Slap Your Tall Friend Day by Calli_Thaala Peak annoying Bojan. Joker Out's dynamic is also absolutely hilarious. Enjoyed reading it a lot.

that song doesn't have distortion by honey_and_venom 5+1, Soulmate AU, ongoing. Kris is Bojan's soulmate but they Do Not Talk About It. Loved the idea of their first words being their soulmarks and how sometimes you need a lot of time to really see one another because life and relationships are difficult.

The Space Between by SamePlaceandTime @reserved-fruit Post-Thailand fic dealing with all the Bokris moments we've seen lately. It's them slowly discovering that they might be ready to push their boundaries a bit further than just friendship and it's full of sweetness and comfort <3

Speaking of, special shoutout to @reserved-fruit's bokris fic prompt series, here on tumblr and here on ao3. I haven't managed to read all of them yet but I particularly liked Eat the Damn Soup and The One Where They're Found Out.