#winona has something to say

[yourknightinshiningplastic]

trying to summon dan and phil back by starting dan's book at the family gathering

[starkwlkr]

Hii!! I had one for the Marvel!Actrice stories.

Can you make one where she gets her hollywood star on the walk of fame the same day that Kevin Feige gets one and Hugh makes a whole speech about her? Thought it would be cute to fit in :))

hopelessly devoted to you | hugh jackman

an: was about to make this hopelessly devoted to hugh.. lol get it? to you? to hugh… I’ll go home (again, reader has no faceclaim so you can imagine anyone you want <3) there’s a big fish and sebastian vettel quote in there so enjoy <3

The day of the walk of fame ceremony was here. It was a hot sunny day in Los Angeles, but you were keeping positive. You were finally joining the walk of fame.

Your whole family was there to witness the moment. Olivia even brought her Polaroid camera to take photos. She had a whole scrapbook filled with Polaroids. Your family was seated in the front row as the ceremony started. Several of your past costars like RDJ, Elizabeth Olsen and Winona Ryder were in attendance to celebrate the milestone.

The presenter started of by giving a speech about your accomplishments while you stood to the side. It felt like forever but eventually the first speech was about to be said by none other than Hugh.

“Twelve years ago, I was here receiving my star. My family was there and it was one of the best days ever. I remember you, my love, saying something in your speech that had stuck with me ever since. She said ‘you are, and ever shall be, my greatest delight’ and that’s what you are to me. We met when we were young. When I first saw you, the world around me had receded into a blur and all I saw was you. To quote one of our favorite movies, ‘they say when you meet the love of your life, time stops, and that’s true’. You have given me the best family and so much love. Also I quickly want to say that if anyone here thinks love at first sight is bullshit, I’ve got my proof right here,” he gave you a quick kiss on the lips as the crowd cheered. “I’m just happy that I met her so early so I didn’t spend a great time looking for her. And to wrap things up, because I can see our daughter shooting glares at me . . . My love, your star here is not just a mark of your achievements, but a symbol of the love and respect you’ve earned from all who know you. I love you, forever and always.”

And with that Hugh and the rest of the crowd clapped for you. You were practically in tears listening to Hugh’s speech. You were definitely going to scold him later for making you cry.

“You deserve this and more.” Hugh whispered to you as he gave you a hug and a kiss on the forehead.

“I hate you right now, you made me cry,” you wiped away a tear. “I love you.”

[impactrueno]

i keep getting amazed by how starkly different betelgeuse and lydia’s dynamic is in the movie versus the cartoon. what do you mean one was based on the other? how did we get “that WAS you stalking me!” from the same source material as “you’re one of a kind, beetlejuice. don’t ever change.”

yeah it happens

it seems like they decided on making a beetlejuice animated series first, and then they tried to figure out how to make it kid friendly. there's this interview that says stephen ouimette's first beetlejuice voices were very close to keaton's in the movie, but that they felt there was something very off about having an "evil creepy guy with a goth girl in the attic" and that was when they decided to soften the character. ouimette did a lighter and funnier voice and that alone was enough for them to feel like he wasn't a threat and the goth girl was safe around him. and i guess things just took off from there as they figured out the characters. it IS a children's cartoon, and being ran by abc at the time they had to keep things cute and wholesome. tim burton was very involved in the creation process (as much as he could while working on batman) so having bj and lydia be friends instead of enemies was pretty much his choice. but again, kids cartoon ran by abc. and that's why we have sugary sweet quotes like the one you said.

seems like even back then tim has always preferred a more amicable dynamic for those two. we already know him, michael, winona, everyone in the cast wants them to be together to some degree thanks to recent interviews. and i think that is why beetlejuice's character was slightly changed in the sequel, from an evil creepy guy to just....a creepy guy with a crush i guess. point is, they don't want him to be The Bad Guy anymore and that's why the sequel is the way it is.

BUT they can't just make him "not evil" and expect it to work, that would make no sense, he still needs to have this creepy and wrong edge to him, and lydia's not gonna just forgive and forget what happened in the first movie. so, combining allllll these elements, we get this brand new dynamic between them: creepy guy in love with the woman he's been stalking for 30 years (pure insanity but not exactly evil) and woman who's like "ugh not this fucking guy again" but still goes to him for help, begrudgingly. she can't quite get rid of him. they're obviously not enemies anymore and they're not friends either. but now it's a bit more believable for them to reach some sort of amicability, eventually.....perhaps in the third one.....we shall see

AND THAT.......is how we got from this concept

to this concept

and finally this concept.

three entirely different dynamics. three three three. rule of thirds, you know i love it. it's a crazy journey but i think it makes more sense when broken down like this.

musical stuff isn't really part of this journey BUT the musical did help soften people's perception of beetlejuice even MORE, so now pretty much everyone can buy into the idea that he can be more than just an "evil creepy guy," to the point where soooo many people were actually dying to see the two team up and be friends in the sequel.

and now the original movie feels like the outlier. oh the IRON-E ok sorry im not using that pun again

[mildy-vibing]

@calamaroo I know you know who this is, our favorite baby boy

NEW/OLD OCTO-OC, ARTHUR GRIZZLY

I've introduced him a long time ago but now he has official art and refs! Though he originally started out being modeled off numerous characters, he's grown beyond that into his own thing. Calamaroo certainly knows as they're my co-creator for him (60/40 custody).

So, who is he?

Early Life

Arthur's early life mainly follows that of all grizzlies. Staying with your mother and following her every move so that one day you may survive on your own. Nothing truly great or memorable came from this time, say for Arthur meeting a certain polar bear cub.

Early on in his cub years, Arthur was constantly traveling up and down the Alaskan wilderness with his mother, sometimes going too far south and sometimes too far north. On one occasion, where they went too far north, Arthur encountered a polar scout. Though it wasn't common for both solitary species to be friends, cubs do as cubs do and became best friends over the course of Arthur's stay.

Arthur was the trouble maker and "bad influence" of the duo, always finding himself knee deep in trouble. Barnacles was always the one to get him out of trouble. But still, they did everything together. There was many play dates, days exploring the frozen coast line, and days spent sitting around fishing or playing in the sea.

Teen Years / Early Adulthood

Arthur stayed up north longer than one would expect. Food was just enough for his mother to settle there, so the friendship laster for years more.

Barnacles joined the scouts, Arthur got better and better at surviving alone, the years went on. During this time, their bond peaked. However, it all came crashing down when Barnacles eventually left for better job opportunities down south, leaving Arthur behind. They hoped to see each other again soon, though that wasn't gonna happen for a long while.

In the meantime, Arthur spent his early adulthood surviving on his own (mother kicked him out as soon as she could). He spent his days traveling and wandering, eventually settling upon the American Northwest as his home. Along the way, he found new company in the form of Winona, a wild mustang. Next to Barnacles, Winona is the closest friend he has.

Later Years / Octoagent Era

When Barnacles managed to track him down and find him, both were beyond overjoyed at seeing the other alive. Barnacles was glad to see one of his oldest friends still alive, while Arthur was glad to see his at all. Following this, the friendship rekindled, and they went on like there wasn't a separation at all.

To avoid Arthur disappearing into the wild again, Barnacles strongly "nudged" for him to join the octoagents. It took some time, but Arthur eventually did, being hired on as an "expert explorer." It was mainly an excuse to keep in touch, but somehow, Arthur actually was good at his "job" as he managed to discover and catalog many environments, animal populations, and changes relating to Northwestern American ecosystems So, Arthur's pretty good at something. That and also serving as a good guide for emergencies in places where not even gups can reach.

As for Barnacles, he's just happy to go on any mission with his old "friend", no matter how mundane it is.

Smaller Bits

- Arthur is a certified horse girl, as he loves his horse more than he loves most things.

- There is some beef between him and Kwazii, mainly starting as arguments of "who is actually the captain's best friend" which usually extends to personal blows due to contrasting personalities. Barnacles can not keep these two together for long.

- He is more of a nomadic type, chosing to live with nothing but a tent and some supplies than in a proper den or home. Makes it kinda hard to have company over.

- Despite being in a job that requires social interaction, he isn't the most social of people.

- Winona is too smart to be a normal non sapient horse, and no one really believes Arthur when he says they've had many "conversations" together. Most believe he's off his rockers already, but Barnacles believes him (only a little).

[herefortheships]

On media portrayals of older women

Commentary on Lydia's characterization in Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. 🕷

This post was originally a response to a post from two months ago, but it got so big (and also I kinda moved away from the topic a little), I decided to make it its own post. It's a long ramble, basically, about my feelings around how women over 30 tend to be written and how disappointing it often is, especially now that I am a woman over 30 myself.

Before I get to Lydia and my issues with how she was written in BJBJ, I just want to say something. There is a blatant unwillingness to represent an older woman who isn't a mother or, at the very least, married or divorced, and often those women who are depicted as individuals outside of these roles, tend to be either toxic or unhappy characters (Cruella De Vil totally came to mind when I just typed that 😆 But even Cruella is married in the original story). As a matter of fact, the ex-wife or divorced older woman is often depicted as a cruel, bitter, or even evil woman (Miranda Priestly form "Devil Wears Prada" came to mind. Hey, another iconic fashion industry character lol). Single older women are often also depicted as "ugly", or flat out scary characters (Miss Trunchbull in Matilda came to mind).

It's like for many screenwriters it's impossible to visualize a mature woman who isn't or hasn't been married, and is childless.

The issue is not that they are given these roles; the issue is that their character arcs often seem to revolve around these roles and their identity is very focused on being either the mom, the wife, or the ex-wife. More often than not, female characters over 30 that are good are usually moms or struggling wives, and their identity is confined or greatly centered around her role as the mother or the suffering wife. (Chances are, if she's happily married, she's either not the protagonist or the story is over 💀). And if it is not centered around these, then motherhood is something adjacent to the story in some way, shape, or form.

Using the first "Beetlejuice" movie we have an example of a happily married woman in a leading role, Barbara Maitland. She's not an older woman, per se, but she is a happily married woman in a leading role. But what is one of her main concerns as a character? She can't have children. So she does have a motherly-adjacent struggle. At least Adam accompanies her in this story thread and it isn't just a struggle Barbara alone is facing; both of them are pretty balanced as far as their struggles go in "Beetlejuice". (I could have also used Delia as an example here, but she isn't exactly the main character as Barbara was in "Beetlejuice". That said, she is both a mother and wife.)

I'm pretty new to the Beetlejuice fandom (as in I was a fan who watched the movie a few times a year around Halloween, but never actually interacted with fandom or analyzed anything, until I watched BJBJ and became totally obsessed), and as a relatively new fan who has been here since September 2024, I'm not sure what the expectations around Lydia's future were throughout the years in the fandom. But, I'm positive a lot of fans never considered Lydia would choose to get married and to a pretty regular guy at that at some point and become a mother. I'm sure many fans shared Winona's idea of older Lydia being a goth spinster, living a pretty unconventional, but happy life, just doing her thing. She might have gone into photography and kept interacting with the dead and being her goth, "strange and unusual" self.

So it must have been pretty shocking to see that older Lydia is not only a struggling mother, but she is also anxiety-ridden and in an abusive relationship with some normie guy.

Lydia at least has something that separates her identity as an individual from her identity as a mother, in her show, but it's made clear that getting into making the show was considered by her as "selling out", a sentiment that came up in her conversation with Delia. I wish they would have gone into that a little bit more, because it's not entirely clear how Lydia felt about the show exactly and what her reasons were to do it in the first place. Lydia's interest in photography from the first film, and subsequently from the animated show as well (meaning this was an inherent and very characteristic part of her), is non-existent in the sequel.

While it's understandable that "life happens" and people just change over time, and a life of seeing and interacting with all sorts of ghosts must have taken a toll on her, Lydia's characterization was considerably far from the person she used to be, and it feels like a lot of it had to do with her mother role.

I know a lot of fans also appreciate this, too, don't get me wrong; Lydia as she is now is relatable to many women's experience, but what I'm getting at is that a choice was made to write older Lydia like this, and that choice is the same treatment that's given to too many older female characters in the media. They chose to make her a struggling mother, is the point I'm trying to make.

Her character has also become more reactionary; she isn't exactly in control about anything. Even making her show appears to be a reactive decision, too, rather than something she did because she genuinely wanted to. She's even taking medications to get through the day when she starts seeing ghosts (Nadja disappears after Lydia takes the pills, so one can assume she takes these pills to quiet down her psychic abilities and stop seeing ghosts; Rory's comment in the bathroom also supports this).

Lydia is indeed, overall, unhappy, and she has been for a long time. Not saying this is a bad thing; stories need conflict, and it would have been strange if she was living her best life at the start of the film. After Charles funeral we confirm that she wasn't exactly happy when Richard was around, either ("our relationship was over long before the accident", strange thing to say to Astrid when she's questioning her about why she cannot see her father). Things seemed to have ended amicably between them, but it looks like Lydia was not happy in that relationship by its end.

Lydia only seems to take control when her daughter is in danger, so that which spurs her into action is more linked to her mother persona over any other conflict that's more directly linked to her as an individual. If it wasn't for Betelgeuse's intervention, she might have even ended up marrying Rory, who, not only did she not love, he was also using her and being emotionally manipulative and abusive.

I know Lydia at some point became affected by seeing ghosts every other day through her life, as evidenced by the pills, but (and this is something I talked about before here) the way they ended the previous film, there was nothing to indicate that Lydia was in a downward spiral or that seeing strange things and dead people affected her negatively in any strong, life-altering way (unless Lydia was pretending to like the dark stuff before, and by the end she's more herself and admits to not like the creepy stuff; she does reject dissecting the frog in her science class, but then again, she asks the Maitlands to levitate her and pretty much do a ghostly possession in the house for the "Jump in the line" scene. But I digress. Lydia's character arc in the first film is an analysis for another post).

Moving on, Lydia's brief experience with Betelgeuse in the first film also does not justify her current emotional state for the reasons stated above and in that post I linked. Losing Richard also doesn't seem to be enough of a reason to have created the emotional issues Lydia is struggling deeply with in BJBJ, and it does seem that the movie pointed at that, but it was poorly done, when Lydia told Astrid she didn't have a relationship with him long before he passed away; she also didn't have a strong reaction to seeing Richard in the afterlife.

Whatever happened to Lydia that led her to this current state wasn't properly explored, is what I'm getting at, because the film decided to focus her character struggles mostly on her relationship with her daughter, over her own personal conflicts as a separate individual. Lydia as the suffering mom, struggling to connect with her daughter was the focus of her arc. Did we ever get to know exactly why she was willing to marry Rory despite clearly not loving him? (she even seemed disgusted by him kissing her and when he tried to kiss her lol).

Was it because she thought he was her only chance at being happy again? Was it because she thought she needed to be married for Astrid, to rebuild their family? Lydia's actions were entirely steered by Rory; he emotionally manipulated her so much, he made her believe she had feelings for him and start a relationship with him, even. Maybe it was him, the one who convinced her to start the show in the first place, to take advantage of her psychic abilities (which he totally believed to be bullshit, anyway, but he thought he could use her delusions/fake claims to attract fame and money), he was her producer, after all. (Actually I think it was him who convinced her?? Was she making her show before meeting him? Lol I totally forgot this bit. Fill me in because I've only watched the movie twice.)

By the end of the film, ironically, Lydia takes more control for herself when she sends Betelgeuse away (and I say "ironically" because, without Betelgeuse she would still be stuck in the same toxic situation she was with Rory. In fact, things would have gotten much worse as Rory would have gotten away with his plan. She also had no issues handling Betelgeuse during all scenes they had together; she would even raise her voice at him and act exasperated with his behavior--that is not typically how a person who is terrified or traumatized by someone acts around them, but ok...), and she makes a choice to be more focused in her life, assuming she did quit her job, which is up for debate, depending on when the dream sequence started.

Without Betelgeuse, Lydia would be stuck in a terrible relationship, where her life would have been ruined, and she would have also lost her daughter on Halloween night when Jeremy used her to get his life back. So it's really strange a choice (and poorly executed, again) to have Lydia's character resolution be sending Betelgeuse away like she's finally confronting some deep-rooted fear or trauma, when her character really wasn't explored individually all throughout the movie to showcase in what way exactly did her brief interactions with Betelgeuse over 30 years ago might have crumbled her emotional stability to that degree. The movie isn't clear if her depression and anxiety are related to losing Richard and therefore that's what she needs to heal from; or if it's more related to her past trauma around Betelgeuse, and then, that's what she needed to heal from.

There really should have been more of a focus on her as an individual apart from her struggles as Astrid's mother for her character to really have a good payoff at the end. And truly, if facing Betelgeuse was going to "fix her", then she's back at square one when he shows up on her bed at the end. Lydia's character and story are incomplete. More reasons why we need a BJ3.

What's truly going to heal Lydia is her finding herself again, as just Lydia; not the mother or the TV presenter. And she must get there herself, not have it all fixed for her by Betelgeuse yet again or another external force. She has to make a choice for herself. They need to show her picking up her camera again, and yes, enjoying the "strange and unusual". She needs to embrace her otherness and be herself again.

(And if she doesn't want to be alone... she shouldn't go after a guy like Rory or a normie. She needs another weirdo like Richard who loved scary movies, or, ahem, Betelgeuse, who has already proved he loves her more than any normie ever could.)

I can't stress enough how disappointing it is that mature women are mostly presented as moms or wives or even grandmas, without dreams and motivations of their own that are entirely separate from their (societal) roles. Mature men can be out there living adventures and doing all sorts of things, like James Bond for example. Meanwhile women are either divorced, mothers, wives, grandmas, aunts, etc and these roles are a huge part of what defines them as characters. And if it doesn't define them, they still are moms, wives, ex-wives, or grandmas. It's rare to see a single older lady doing her thing and being just a character and like, falling in love and going through a satisfying arc that has nothing to do with having kids, or dealing with estranged kids, etc. At least Delia was out there doing her thing in BJBJ; she was doing what she loved, while still being a mother and a grandmother, and a loving wife/widow to Charles. She was a realized character. And that's what I want to see, you know? I don't mind seeing an older female character who is married with kids (and even grandkids!), as long as she is also a fully realized individual when her character arc is wrapped up at the end.

If Lydia being behind the camera instead of in front of it in BJBJ is representative of her feeling lost in life, and her being in a toxic relationship and almost saying yes to someone she doesn't love or even remotely fit in with, then healed Lydia should be behind the camera again in BJ3, and saying yes to someone she does love and fits in with by the end.

I definitely want to see a Lydia who is more than Astrid's mom in BJ3; a Lydia who isn't easily manipulated and stepped on, and who has a firm grasp on who she is and a love for who she is. Yeah, I totally want her to end up with Betelegeuse (edit: And I am writing a post about why they are perfectly matched to complete each other's character arcs), but I also want to see her fully realized outside of the mother and (potential) wife roles.

[the-entity-down-the-street]

Okay so. The New Beetlejuice Movie.

I have thoughts about Lydia and Beetz, and how Beetlejuice's feelings developed for her.

Yes. I ship them. I don't think I've come out and said it yet, but yeah I'm one of those. Block me if it bothers you. Winona and Micheal ship it, too. For the record.

Analysis under the cut

Okay folks. So, I don't believe for a second that Beetlejuice loved her in the first movie. He doesn't know her, barely interacts with her, doesn't care about her outside of having a means to an end. You can see this in how he treats the wedding, too. He rushes it and does everything in his power to stop everyone from saying his name. I don't even think they had a cake?

Now, this isn't to say he isn't intrigued by Lydia.

"I think I could get along with Edgar Allen Poe's daughter, she gets me."

Let's be real, though. He's a scumbag and a sex pest in the first movie.

This is in stark contrast to the sequel. He calls Lydia the love of his life, keeps a photo of her on his desk, fulfills all his promises to her, helps her get revenge on Rory *after* making him tell the truth about his motivations, and the DANCE SEQUENCE?? If his goal was just to escape the Netherworld, he'd have rushed the wedding vows and gotten it over with as quick as possible. And considering he has *more* motivation to get out than the first movie-- Delores coming to kill him, for real, permenantly-- that makes the second wedding even more romantic. He is down BAD bad.

So, how did we get here?

That's what I've been puzzling over for past couple days. I think it has something to do with the psychic connection Beetlejuice mentions to Bob.

@herefortheships has an excellent post that helped fill in the "why" of the psychic connection. Lydia can see all kinds of ghosts. What makes Beetlejuice different?

It's because they almost completed the wedding in the first movie. Sure, Lydia never said "I do", but they were almost there, and with this marriage ceremony being so powerful as to bring the dead back to life, even an interrupted wedding forms a link between them. Beetlejuice being such a powerhouse himself, and Lydia being naturally psychic, probably strengthens it. The closest comparsion I'd make is never closing out with a Ouija board. A very powerful, horny Ouija board.

So, this gives Beetlejuice a chance to get to know Lydia over the years. He watches her grow up, with a set of ghost parents no less. He sees her powers strengthen, and how she goes on to start a show utilizing her gift. I wonder if the show inspired Beetlejuice to start his own business?

She becomes a wife, a mother, a fully rounded adult who never loses her adoration of the macabre. I think he sees what he originally saw in Delores, and it ignites something, for lack of a better term, long-dead within him. Lydia is a much better person than Delores, too, and Beetlejuice knows that. After all, she originally agreed to marry him to save her (already dead) friends.

No wonder he's fucking smack dizzy in love. He softens, becomes a marginally more respectable person. Keeping a picture of teenage Lydia on his desk is objectively creepy, but that's also when he saw her in person last, so it makes sense.

Something else I noticed, and this kind of a tangent, but it's interesting.

He only started appearing to her again recently. Like, she'd felt him around the corners, but it's only around the start of the film that he tries to actively get her attention. I have a theory as to why. In part, he wanted to make himself better for her before making a grand entrance (reputable businessman and all), but there's something else that's more obvious.

Rory. He knows Rory's bad news, and I wouldn't be surprised if he used his connection with Lydia to spy on him. Beetlejuice probably knew he was planning to marry Lydia for her money soon. Now, he couldn't talk to her properly due to her blatantly trying to push him out, but he could still be loudly present.

Notice how when Rory summons him, Beetlejuice presents as a relationship counselor. He even says "I think there's an enabler here, but we'll talk about that later," which I think is because he wants Rory to know he sees through the emotionally manipulative bullshit.

I think he also knows Lydia was not going to believe him if he said Rory was a creep. I mean, why would she? Beetlejuice bides his time with gross out gags and other typical Beetlejuice antics. It's only after he's proven himself honest enough to stay true to his word by saving Astrid and sending her boyfriend to hell that he gives Rory the truth syrum.

He's really, really grown to genuinely love Lydia, way more than he ever loved Delores I'd say, and it's because he's fallen in love with the woman he got to watch her become.

[elderwisp]

◁ || ▷ now playing

Frances: You guys need any extra boxes?

Winona: Probably. Nona has all of these mugs like do we seriously need all fifty million of them?

Aponi: I heard that!

Winona: [ grumbles ] You were supposed to. Lady needs an intervention.

Frances: I think it’s nice to collect little things.

Winona: Are you admitting to me that you’re a hoarder?

Frances: I’m not! So are you excited?

Winona: Sort of. I mean it’ll be cool to have my own bathroom but I dunno. All my friends are here.

Frances: Felt that.

Winona: Frances, are you sure you gotta leave? I could pack you in one of these boxes.

Frances: [ giggles ] Sounds uncomfy.

Winona: I’ll add pillows and blankets.

Aponi: Winona, we’re not putting them in a box. 

Winona: Awh. Fine.

Aponi: Well, it’s that time. Thank you for everything.

Frances: Do either of you need anything from me before I go?

Aponi: No, you’ve been quite the help. Make sure you eat good food, no more ramen packets.

Frances: I promise.

Frances: Take care.

Winona: I’m gonna miss you.

Frances: Me too. Bye now.

[ low rumbling ]

Frances: Icarus? I thought you were working late tonight.

Icarus: I’ll be back. I told them I needed to take care of something first. 

Frances: Everything’s fine. Winona-

Icarus: I’m not sure if I’ll ever see you again and I wanted to… I needed to say bye.

Frances: I-I don’t want to go. 

Icarus: It’s okay.

Frances: I can’t do it.

Icarus: You’ve got big dreams waiting for you, Frances. I’m not gonna hold you back.

Frances: Icarus, please.

Icarus: [ whispers ] Don’t be a stranger.

Frances: I won’t. 

Dan: [ emotionless ] Rough day?

Frances: [ sniffles ] Mhm. You?

Dan: Incredibly rough. 

Frances: Wanna talk about it?

Dan: Not really, you?

Frances: No.

[moonsceptre]

What is your opinion on the Beetlejuice 2 Dream Theory?

This theory?

My opinion is that it's very likely to be true. I walked away from the cinema extremely happy with all of the shippy moments—so happy I hadn't even considered theorising anything yet, however my first thought about the ending was, So it was all Lydia's dream?

I read through the post and was blown away by how much sense it made, but I think it helped push me to believe it when my friend sent me this

My friend is not interested in theorising or shipping, and has no connection to the BJ fandom, he's just a horror fan. Yet his interpretation of the movie's ending was a summarised version of the whole dream theory. Isn't it far more romantic to imagine Lydia having spent her life with Betelgeuse, and he's indulging her with a dream of her own child? Considering they both have a 'psychic connection', I'm not convinced that Lydia hasn't been thinking about BJ just as much as he's been thinking about her.

This user pointed out both of Betelgeuse's love songs are by artists named Richard, conveniently the name of Lydia's previous partner. The same partner who was described as a horror fan that loved playing pranks, and dressed as a Beetlejuice lookalike for Halloween.

Looks like Beetlejuice, acts like Beetlejuice—either Lydia is equally obsessed, or it's BJ projecting himself onto Lydia's human lover within the dream. Watching the movie with new eyes, I noticed in the "Later, fucker" scene that BJ is sitting in the same place Richard sat while working at the border control. "Astrid" herself has a name related to the celestial bodies, much like "Betelgeuse". You can either take this as a romantic parallel, or Tim is trying to show us that Richard's creation is based on Lydia's fixation with Beetlejuice.

Dream sequences often use characters to represent something within the dreamer's psyche. It's like an abstract analysis of the way that character thinks and feels. Astrid's sequence within the dream shows Lydia's material desires—it confirms everything was based off of what Lydia wanted, which included getting married to a 'monster' (in the sequence of events, Astrid marries a guy dressed as a vampire), and then gives birth to the Beetlebaby. I know in the first movie there is a reference to the horror movie "The Fly", so I imagine this was too.

Did anyone notice the dream sequence watching Astrid didn't actually have a clear indication for when it began? It transitioned from the movie as if everything was a dream right from the start.

Let's not forget BJ straight up looking into the camera and saying "I love a good dream sequence". Lol.

My other reasoning for believing the dream theory is what Winona said about Lydia. Winona and Tim are close friends. Winona pitched the idea of having Betelgeuse and Lydia be the endgame ship in her words, and she happily took part in this movie. If Tim had rejected the idea, why would Winona reprise her role for a story she didn't agree with? Winona knows that Lydia is Tim's self insert (Tim has said many times he relates the most to Lydia), so why would Tim approve of all the shippy moments if he opposed Winona's pitch? No one knows Lydia like him!

Winona said in this interview that she hadn't imagined Lydia ever becoming a mother, but that after a while it started to make sense. She does not elaborate on that, but explains her idea for Lydia was that she would end up a spinster in the attic. If you read the dream theory, it highlights how the movie begins with Lydia in the attic, and then transitions to Lydia's TV show, but the background is still the attic. I found the whole film very dreamlike in this way, and I think the fact that Tim has said Wizard of Oz (a movie where the girl wakes up after a dream, in which those she knew acted as characters within the sequence) is one of his favourite movies helps to put it into effect.

And finally...

It's Lydia Deetz. Lydia loves the strange and unusual.. do you really think she wasn't curious enough to contact Beej again?

[yourknightinshiningplastic]

should I listen to original happiest nuclear winter first or no? (also can I have a link to do that)

[carigm]

MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILERS/LEAKS REGARDING S5 (WARNING)

Last Spring/Summer, a semi popular fandom account on Twitter got sent some leaks about S5, focused on the first half of the season. At this time, many fandom accounts were receiving supposed leaks, so our attention was a bit scattered and we didn’t focus on any of them too much. A popular leak account on Twitter (unrelated to ST) also mentioned that they had gotten the first half of S5 leaked, and that this source is “never wrong”. Now, it is hard to tell if these leaks are the same as the ones that the specific fandom account I’m talking about received, but something to keep in mind. Her leaks were given to her by a person named James (which I assume is a fake name). These leaks were also posted on Reddit, last year, by her (the person in the fandom that got the leaks from James) but some major things were omitted in that post. I’m gonna leave a link here in case you guys want to read the discussion.

I’m sharing these leaks with you because some things from them are kinda lining up with what we’re seeing from S5 production. Keep in mind that these could be fake/wrong, and James himself said he didn’t have info on the last couple of scripts.

According to James, Mike dies in Ep. 3. I’m adding more screenshots later for more context, but the gist of these leaks is that Mike bites it, mlvn never breakup nor do they get a resolution, and Byler is left up to interpretation but never really happens. (I don’t really need to get into how shitty this all is writing wise)

Let’s go over the things these leaks might have potentially gotten right, according to what we know so far.

1. James said that the time jump would occur in ep. 1, after an establishing scene where S4 left off. He said the time jump would place us in late 1987/early 1988. He also mentioned there would be a series of flashbacks showcasing stuff from before the time jump. The dates he gave do seem to be accurate, and David Harbour had a shaved head right before they went into filming, which could imply pre time jump scenes.

2. According to him, after Mike dies, they find a letter he had been writing. Some of us were theorizing Finn had a letter in his back pocket in those rooftop pics. Could’ve also been Finn’s script and he just stuck it there (who knows).

3. He said that Joyce gets badly injured in ep.3, and since there’s speculation Winona was seen filming at the hospital, some people think that means she was taken there because of her injury. It’s important to notice that Natalia, Cara, and Finn were also supposedly seen filming at the hospital, and that the production called for many extras for nurses and paramedics. So whatever they’re filming at the hospital, it might be bigger than Joyce getting injured in her leg. Let’s remember Max is at the hospital too. I’m not 100% sold on this part of the leaks.

4. Today it was revealed that they’re setting up to film at Stone Mountain. (This is where they filmed UD scenes for S4)

Apparently production might have purple tentacles out already. (UD vines?)

Cara Buono mentioned, in that video shared by Ross Duffer, that she was filming stuff from Ep.2. This was around 2 days ago.

The people that know about the leaks think this is where Mike dies in ep. 3. Here’s some further context:

Here’s some stuff he said about mlvn:

Which is just….meh, because like I said, it doesn’t look like him and El ever breakup before his supposed death. Plus Byler never gets any resolution.

Now some things that might disprove the leaks (I’m trying to be impartial here)

1. These leaks mentioned Argyle a couple of times, saying he has a hero moment at some point. Eduardo made it sound like he’s not coming back to the show, but tbh he could just be lying. He’s listed for ep.2 on IMDb (and yes I know anyone with an account can edit that site)

2. These leaks say that Mike is very insufferable for the 3 episodes he’s alive, basically lashing out at everyone, specially El, and just overall behaving like an asshole. I really didn’t get that from the ElMike rooftop scene, in fact he seemed very gentle with her. People that know about these leaks think that the rooftop scene is Mike maybe apologizing to El and them having a heart to heart, right before he dies (no comment).

All in all, if Mike is dying this early, I’m sure we’ll know soon enough. The rest of the cast is gonna be filming for like a year, and Finn will be done in like two weeks 💀

I also hope there’s more leaks soon (on Reddit) so that we might compare them to these and see wtf is up.

I know someone is gonna inevitably ask why leaks would be out almost a whole year before they started filming when we usually get them during filming or post production, but I’ve been told these leaks happened around the time the writer’s strike began, which is when they were originally gonna start filming. I was also told other shows had issues with leaks around that same time.

I don’t want to get too much into the truly awful writing we’re facing if these are real but…First, I believe it’s a total disservice to Mike’s character. One of your mains since S1 and you don’t even offer him the option of dying towards the end of the season? Even fucking Eddie got that. Two, it seems like a very easy cop out for not having to make Byler canon. Let’s just have neither ship be endgame and that way we don’t get queerbaiting allegations. It also stands in a zone too close to torture porn for my liking, because sure let’s kill the character two of the most traumatized characters in the history of TV love most. And yes, it’s also a disservice to El and Will’s characters. And lastly, if that supposed letter vaguely alludes Mike having some sort of sexuality problems (we don’t know atp) it is pretty fucked up they just killed him off like that. Sure let’s not explore any of that, but give a half assed explanation via letter ex machina. This is looking like Supernatural finale levels of bad to me.

Another point, I distinctly remember the Duffers saying, after S4, that they could never kill off a character like Mike because it would be too painful, and that ST would cease to be ST and lose its identity. They didn’t want to be like GOT. I sincerely hope they actually meant this and were not trying to be cheeky or whatever the fuck.

It would be genuinely insane, and quite frankly, a highlight of their lack of writing abilities.

I hope the leaks are wrong, but I felt like it was necessary to warn everyone just in case. I know I’m not watching something this awful.

[insistonyourcupofstars]

something something all boyd ever wanted from raylan was an admittance of what they had. a moment of truth that existed without deep subtext or euphemism or what have you - just an acknowledgment of what "we dug coal together" actually meant. a moment where raylan wouldn't repress the raging sea of emotions that he holds within himself and give boyd a sign, a true acknowledgment.

and the tragic thing is, boyd gets that. but not at the very end. when he gets what he wants, it's to coerce him into helping raylan take down a man who hurt his family. of course, not only was boyd accused of being involved in the hostage situation with winona, but when raylan goes to him to get his own form of justice, what is it raylan says to boyd?

boyd's not going to help raylan out of protecting ava from him. nope, boyd's going to help raylan because he's. his. buddy.

and what does boyd do? he drives raylan, in the middle of the night, to murder some big-shot mob boss to give raylan a sense of vengeance.

I was rewatching the final episode of s4 a while back, and this moment just hit me like a truck. the way raylan so casually and poignantly tells boyd that he will go with him because they're friends and he does it! because raylan just pulled the uno-reverse card on his ass!

it's such good writing because not only does it shine a light on how far boyd is willing to go for raylan - and this deep-seated feeling of need of validation that he desires from him (raylan did leave him in harlan supposedly not too long after the mine collapse, and they were so young that it definitely would cause limgering feelings of abandonement) - BUT ALSO it shows the depth of raylan's character because HE KNOWS.

raylan knows what boyd wants. he has always known, but like he does with almost everything that elicits an emotion other than "anger" and "sarcasm," he puts it away in a locked airtight box that no one, including himself, ever has to see. and yet, when push comes to shove, raylan is not at all above using this as a way to further his own goal. it's not a good light to cast on his character despite all lighting looking good on his character but it makes his character sooo much more juicy.

[impactrueno]

I don't think the crew's comments about Lydia and Beetlejuice being endgame should be taken seriously. If that was seriously considered I feel like the movie would have gone on a different direction, they were pretty consistent with Lydia being disgusted by Beetlejuice and he's the villain all the way to the end

yeah that's kiiind of how i feel too. i would not say he's the villain though? i think he's more of an anti-hero type of character in this one. definitely not a good guy though lol not by a long shot

ultimately the cast isn't the one who's making the story here, however they do have some insight the audience might not have. like i feel like they know something we don't and that's why they feel that way, because they were all VERY sure about it.

this is just my guess so take this with a grain of salt, but i feel like the cast might be a little biased because they know michael personally and he's nice to everyone behind the scenes, you can tell everyone has a lot of love for him. i don't like assuming stuff like this so AGAIN don't take this as fact, but i remember winona saying something along the lines of like, him making sure she wasn't uncomfortable while filming the first movie, so maybe that kinda stuck with her and she conflated it with beetlejuice's character. she speaks of the whole thing in a very shy fangirl manner (which is honestly kind of adorable winona youre 52 and acting like this) like she knows it's silly and she knows she shouldn't want them to be endgame but she does anyway. so THAT feels like it really is her own personal opinion that hasn't much to do with what's planned for them (if there's anything planned at all because we don't know anything for sure, we can only guess and hope there'll be a third one)

tim burton has talked about how he wanted the whole macarthur park scene to be straightforwardly romantic and emotionally intimate, in its own fucked up beetlejuicey way of course. i think it can be all that and still be pretty one-sided idk i personally enjoy the one-sided aspect? macarthur park IS a breakup song after all. so i think i kinda see where he was going with that. it's uh. kind of an enigmatic scene once you stop laughing at the ridiculousness of it all and try to analyze it lol

sorry i lost my train of thought there i got interrupted many times while typing this

i think what i was trying to say is that, even with the one-sidedness and breakup song and all that, there could still be a possibility that things take a strange turn in a third movie if it happens. it's just. wow. how would they even make THAT work, you know? because this movie didn't push hard enough in that direction. it's not impossible but if they do go for it, it will be insanely hard to pull off successfully. fics are one thing, you can do whatever you want in fanfiction, but canon can't be approached like that.

who knows man. lately i've been thinking about how i would've reacted to learning about the events of the sequel if i hadn't been eased into it with trailers and promos and through the movie and its storytelling, and i just know i would've thought "that's insane and would not happen, ever, come on" and now here i am. accepting it. breaking it down and analyzing it. enjoying it! i love this crazy ass movie.

at this point i think anything could happen even if i'm also very skeptic about everything. i won't believe anything until i see it.

[thebleedingalien]

Bunch of DST headcanons for WX-78 cause I adore this automaton way too much and gotta ramble about them ⚙️🧡

Under Cut. Pretty long post there's honestly quite A LOT.

Never truly lost any of their memories from before they became an automaton, just suppresses them REALLY hard.

Massive cat person, one of the few living creatures they got a soft spot for. Too embarrassed to keep any though.

Absolutely can't cook for shit, really bad at it and barely tries. Tied with Willow for most kitchen fires.

Enjoys baked goods a lot! Got a bit of a sweet tooth. It's the real reason they love butter muffins so much.

Has two different types of laughs. One being a sarcastic very monotone “HA HA HA” they use just to mock others, and a genuine more “human” like chuckle they’ll make when they actually find something funny. The genuine one however also sounds really jank and glitchy though cause their voice wasn’t built for it.

Uses binary code as a second language of sorts. Switches to it when they wanna say something but don’t want the others to actually understand them. They also tend to switch to binary involuntary when they are either really excited or incredibly anxious.

Suffers from Talassophobia (fear of large bodies of water). They’re ironically fine with water itself, but are terrified of things like being in the ocean, and had this issue even back when they were still human. They are actually really good at hiding it though, unless they KNOW they are gonna fall in.

Was actually sent to The Constant back around when Maxwell was still on the throne. They ended up becoming a pawn and got the same treatment as all the others when they antagonized and pissed Maxwell off while he interrogated them.

They were never actually designed to do human like things such as eating or sleeping, nor should things like getting sick or healing from food/medicine be possible for them. They got no idea where these abilities came from and it WORRIES them. Blames it on The Constant’s weirdness to ease their mind.

They didn’t really have much of a family when they were human, which led them to grow a habit of labeling their fellow machines as family. They didn’t have a mom at all growing up, which is why they insist on viewing the science machine as their mom instead.

Back when they were human, they used to consider Wagstaff as their only real friend, which makes the betrayal hurt so much more.

Is the most fond of Winona out of the whole camp. She's the only one they will even slightly admit to care about, but would never say it out loud. (She can tell ❤️)

Also decently gets along with Willow and Wendy quite well. Willow cause of her destructive and chaotic nature, and Wendy due to her more downer look on life/living and being the most chill out of the children.

Ironically, their love language (as in how they SHOW love) is actually act of service. If they genuinely like/care about you enough they will be willing to tackle certain tasks for you (though they'll deny it and get a bit snappy if you even point it out).

Asexual, but not necessarily aromantic. They actually could feel romantic attraction in some rare situations, but they are very romance repulsed and will likely never act on those feelings even if they have em

[littlexdeaths]

it’s a recipe for disaster headcanons

below you can find a bunch of headcanons for this little au.

i’ll definitely be adding some more as they come to me <3

enjoy my loves xx.

• set in the summer of 1991 and onward.

• mouse is 20 and eddie is 25.

• sid works at sam goody in the starcourt mall.

• gareth is the assistant manager of upside down comics. (where they host hellfire club meetings every saturday)

• keith (unnamed freak) is a line cook at benny’s.

• jeff works with eddie at the sinclair’s auto shop.

• sid and eddie have been friends for the longest out of the group, they met in fifth grade.

• mouse has had a crush on eddie since middle school. and while he was totally oblivious to it at the time, he can’t stop teasing her about it every chance he gets now. “oh so you liked me, liked me, huh?”

• corroded coffin has started getting gigs in indianapolis and is slowly starting to gain traction in the underground music scene.

• sid is the lead singer of corroded coffin, i picture his voice as chino from the deftones. and his style is very reminiscent of matthew lillard’s character in senseless.

• mouse’s style is very much inspired by a combination of jennifer connelly and winona ryder in the late 80’s and early 90’s.

• robin figures out mouse and eddie are dating almost immediately. i mean she did crack a russian code in another lifetime.

• eddie has literally had to hide in mouse’s closet and under her bed multiple times in the very beginning because he couldn’t help but want to sneak in a quick make out session. he also definitely teased her about her collection of cabbage patch dolls that she has hidden away in her closet.

• mouse made eddie watch my girl with her and he absolutely cried like a baby.

• eddie gives mouse a stick and poke tattoo of a heart on her hip.

• wayne catches eddie trying to sneak mouse out of the trailer before he wakes up one morning but all he has to say about it is, “about damn time, boy.” and rolls over to go back to sleep.

• robin has to go in and erase the security camera footage of mouse and eddie when they got a little too frisky in the adult section of family video. she’s scarred for life.

• when eddie finds out argyle has been supplying mouse with weed for several years now, he’s very offended. “you mean to tell me you’ve been willingly paying for weed, when you could’ve gotten it for free?” but it’s not something a couple kisses can’t fix.

• series masterlist. •

[jazy3]

Filming for Season 5 of Stranger Things has officially wrapped!!! Filming wrapped the week of December 16th and lucky for us the Broadcast Channel as well as several cast members shared BTS photos to celebrate!

First up, we've got a black and white photo of Finn, Winona, Noah, and Caleb in costume goofing around on a couch at the radio station set. Caleb's holding a sleeping pillow here so someone or multiple someones are definitely sleeping at the radio station this season! Maybe they're keeping watch over something?

We got a colour photo of Charlie, Natalia, and Joe in costume standing in a field next a blue car that’s got a bicycle in the back seat. To me this is one of the more interesting photos! Nancy is wearing her candy striper outfit so she’s presumably come from a shift at the hospital. We haven't seen Jonathan's car in any of the BTS pics so I'm wondering if maybe he got a new one and this blue car could be it?

I really like their outfits here and I'm excited to see what the aesthetic for each character looks like in Season 5 compared to Season 4. I'm curious to know whose bike is in the backseat. We've seen Dustin, Mike, and Lucas biking in the BTS footage so far so it could be one of theirs. I'm also curious as to why they're biking as at least some of the younger teens would be old enough to drive by the fall of 1987 so I'm interested to see what the deal is with that.

Then we've got a colour photo of Gaten in costume wearing another radio station t-shirt and laughing with Shawn Levy. In it Gaten is pointing a flashlight at something and there are vines on the walls behind them. I feel like at this point it's all but confirmed that Dustin is working at the local radio station in Season 5. Apprently he's made that his whole personality because he is repping those t-shirts hard! Or maybe they're just free and super comfy! Who knows?

Clearly our band of heroes will be spending a lot of time in the upside down this season apparently without masks or protective equipment on. I really hope they address that change this season. Cause it was super weird that they referenced how toxic the atmosphere in the upside down is in Season 4 and then went back in there with no masks or PPE. Is it toxic or isn't it?

We got a colour photo of Maya Hawke and Brett Gelman in a red truck driving somewhere. Honestly, I'm excited for this team up! I think this could be really interesting. I feel like the two of them would bond over a love of conspiracy theories and the supernatural. We've also seen BTS photos of Winona and Maya together so Robin's getting some interesting pair ups this season!

We got a black and white photo of Millie in costume and one of the Duffer Brothers in what looks like some sort of storage room or warehouse. We've gotten a few different angles of this scene already so I'm curious to see what the final version looks like.

Then we got a colour photo of Winona Ryder and Cara Buono in costume rehearsing a scene at the Wheeler House kitchen. I think this is one of the most interesting photos in the set. While Joyce looks like herself, Karen eyes look really glazed over and she seems almost doll like in this photo. And there appears to be a flask in the pocket of the apron Cara is wearing so people have speculated that this could be a Vecna vision or some kind of trance.

I'm excited that we're going to get some quality Joyce and Karen scenes this season but the implications of these photos are rather alarming for the Wheeler family. It appears that Holly has most likely been abducted but this point, that Vecna is messing with Karen somehow, and we haven't seen any photos of Ted thus far so I think it's safe to say that something has probably happened to him.

We’ve got a colour photo of David, Winona, and Millie in costume at the junkyard talking to the Duffer Brothers. I'm not crazy about Hopper and El's looks this season based on the BTS footage we've gotten so far, but I'm hoping they look better in the final version than the BTS content suggests. I'm excited to see the Byers-Hopper family in action though! Like a lot of fans I thought we'd get more of that in Season 4 and was super sad that we didn't.

Then we've got a colour photo of Priah Ferguson in some 1950’s-esque clothing sitting at a dinner table examining a piece of pie on a fork with the episode’s director Frank Darabont. My first thought when I saw this photo was that Erica's family was sitting down for Thanksgiving dinner because she's all dressed up. But then a friend pointed out to me that her clothing is more fifties than eighties and that you can see what looks like the sleeve of what Holly was wearing to her left.

The room she's sitting in also looks a lot more formal than what we've seen at the Sinclair's house so far. I've seen people speculate that this could be a Vecna vision or that maybe Holly is abducted at the beginning of the Season and then Erica is abducted later on and that the gang is going to have to get both of them back. Either way I'm very excited to see this scene on screen and to find out what's actually going on here!

[herefortheships]

Things I would love to get in BJ3, in no particular order of importance.

Ok so this post has been in my drafts for a while 😂 Enough time to make this a pretty long post. Some of these (or, maybe all of these 😆) are unlikely to happen, but I'm just sharing my little hopes and fangirl dreams. I decided to share the things I do NOT want as a separate post, because then this would be way too long (spoiler alert: it already is too long 😅). I will just link this post to the other one, and vice versa, when I post it.

Here we go, things I would love to get in BJ3:

The return of the line "I myself am, strange and unusual". Doesn't necessarily have to be the full phrase as long as "strange and unusual" is used to describe Lydia or something related to Lydia. Bonus points if Lydia calls Betelgeuse "strange and unusual". Extra bonus points if it's part of her reasoning to fall in love with him or explaining to Astrid why she's even attracted to him. Because he's strange and unusual. lol

Lydia taking up photography again. I wanna see her walking around with her camera taking photos again.

Betelgeuse either being set loose, or returning to life again for act three. It can be for a brief portion earlier in the movie, too; like as part of act two, and then he goes back to being a ghost for whatever madness happens in act three. (But, for act three it feels more fitting. It'd be cool if part of act three had Betelgeuse able to walk freely in the world of the living for only one night [on Halloween], bonus points if he's in the flesh, like, alive for one night. Cool idea, but unlikely. Yet, this girl dreams).

Betelgeuse and Astrid bonding. I want to see them interact and get along better than anyone would have expected. She can hate him at the start of the movie, but then grow fonder of him as the events in the movie unfold.

That said: Stepdad Betelgeuse! Lydia, Betelgeuse, and Astrid becoming a family by the end. We all know how in love I am with the idea of them all becoming a family. If the movie ends this way, they can even continue the series as an animated show about their odd little family! I dream. It'd be sweet to see Beej actually try to be a good dad to Astrid because in life he never got the chance to be a father, or even decide if he wanted to be one. Now that he gets a chance he wants to be the best dad. 🥹 (Making myself emotional with an unlikely scenario. But again, I dream 😌). It would also be funny if he's trying to be a good dad and kinda failing because, he's a ghost and also he's Betelgeuse 😆, kinda like him trying to reach out to Lydia and romance her, and instead scaring her in BJBJ.

Lydia saying "Though I know I should be wary..." before summoning Betelgeuse. She doesn't have to say the full chant, but it'd be cool if she said those words as a shout out to the cartoon!

A totally wild (and possibly whacky) Betelgeuse and Lydia sex scene. 🤭 Bonus points if it starts with a wild make out session. Extra bonus points if Betelgeuse is a ghost (i.e they don't have him be alive and all cleaned up for it lol I'm sorry, Winona, but you'll have to eat up that stage makeup off of Michael's face. Oops). Extra extra bonus points if Lydia accidentally banishes him saying his name during the act, just because that'd be a hilarious way to end the scene 😂.

Lydia having a hard time accepting that she has feelings for Betelgeuse at first.

I would also love to meet Lydia's real mom.

Delia and Astrid being team Betelgeuse and supporting Lydia being with him.

Delia must be in BJ3 of course. She did say she was gonna stick around until Lydia begged her (and Charles) to move on, so we'll definitely be seeing her again unless they forced her into the Soul Train.

It'd be cool if Astrid is the one to summon Betelgeuse this time, at first, actually.

The story ending with Betelgeuse taking the Soul Train to the Great Beyond next to Lydia, if they don't end it just with them married and starting their married life. Even though Betelgeuse has been freed of his burdens and owes no more time as a civil servant (think loophole, or just as a result of having been freed of his curse by Lydia [see my Betelgeuse and marriage theory; that's how I'd like it to go, personally 💜] which resulted in allowing him to finally pass on) he'd stick around and wait for Lydia. So yes, *Not saying Lydia has to die in this movie, but when it's her time, it'd be sweet if Lydia and Betelgeuse take the train together. Even if they end the third movie with Beetlebabes married, and we don't get to see the end end of their story together, I want to imagine that at the very end they're taking that train together, even if one of them has to wait for the other to be able to pass on.

The return of "Jump in the Line". It would be a dream if BJ3 ends with "Jump in the Line" or includes it at some point in the movie. Bonus points if Betelgeuse and Lydia dance to it. Extra bonus points if it's their wedding after-party song! And Astrid and Delia join in the dancing. How cute would that be (man this list is getting more and more unrealistic, but this would be so perfect to me, if it happened lol 😭🥹💕).

Now that we're at the Harry Belafonte music part of this wishlist, another song I would like is "Sweetheart from Venezuela" lol. I understand if they don't want to include these songs though, since Harry Belafonte music in the first film is more connected to the Maitlands. Even though the lyrics of "Sweetheart from Venezuela" make me feel like the song was picked to be be in the movie because of the Betelgeuse x Lydia marriage situation 😆. If you don't remember the lyrics, they start "Juanita, my darling, you sure you love me? Sí, señor! You feel in your heart you will marry to me? Sí, señor! You promise to love me the rest of you life? Sí, señor! I love Juanita! My sweetheart from Venezuela." So as you can see, the song is about getting married, and specifically about marrying someone from another country, in Beetlejuice's case, Lydia marrying Betelgeuse, someone who is dead. So I feel like the movie starting with that song it was alluding to that. But this isn't what this post is about! 😂 Anyway they can include his music; in a way, his music is also connected to Lydia. It's part of her teen years and probably reminds her of the Maitlands, whom she must still love very much.

The movie needs to include another Betelgeuse and Lydia dance scene.

Also the wedding scene (there HAS to be a wedding, ok) should be more intimate. I don't think Tim Burton should try to top the epicness of the McArthur Park scene, unless he has something absolutely crazy and even more beautiful in his mind. So maybe it should be more lowkey. Even if he tries to top the BJBJ wedding scene and fails, I'm sure I will still love whatever he comes up with, as long as the wedding succeeds this time around.

Did I already mention a Beetlebabes kiss? There has to be a kiss.

The return of Delores as a proper villain.

The return of Wolf Jackson! I just really liked him.

If only it was possible, the return of Bob. I understand if he's not coming back, though. But I wish he would. He was Betelgeuse's friend (Beej has to appreciate him more if he does come back, though...)

A cute family scene with Lydia, Beej, and Astrid.

And finally, a proper ending that closes the story in a satisfying way, but that also leaves it open in a sense that the story is not over-over, so it could potentially continue as a series (even if animated) eventually. But even if it's kinda open, it has to be satisfying. Like, it ending with Beetlebabes married and all of them living together as a family, that'd be a satisfying ending that's still pretty open to continue the story as a series. If they do decide to make the story fully over and done with, though, then I already wrote up there what I'd like: for Betelgeuse and Lydia to pass on to the Great Beyond together.

These are my wishes. Of course, realistically I know a lot of this or all of it may not happen, but it's what I'd like to see. And I'm sure I'm gonna keep having ideas of what I'd like to see, so I will STOP this post here or I risk this becoming a mammoth post of unrealistic expectations. 😅 I feel like some of these are possible, but ofc I'm biased. The thing it all boils down to, what I want the most is a happy ending for all the main characters, and for that happy ending to involve canon, fully reciprocated, Beetlebabes. 💕

Next post: the things I do NOT want to see and my fears for BJ3.