#why tf would she tell him that the baby might not be rick's??? like???

[birbfeeder2artisticboogaloo]

damn they really pulled a 'not now, honey, the Men are talking' on andrea 👀👀

OOH NEVER MIND THEY'RE DOING A ZOMBIE KILLING CONTEST!!!! that's WAY cooler than boring negotiations :D

[whateverisbeautiful]

Reveling in Richonne

#136 The Right One (9x03)

Y��all, if anything Richonne related was recorded and released then I gotta break it down. That’s just the rules. 😂 And there were three deleted scenes from this episode that didn’t make it on the air but were still filled with Richonne goodness so I definitely gotta break it down and revel in it.

So the first deleted scene is with the Grimes Family visiting Siddiq. Judith is looking at Siddiq like doctors visits are not her favorite and Rick and Michonne sit next to each other on the side, trying to be as positive as possible so that Judith will be down to get her check up. 

R&M look adorable as they so easily go into this parent role of encouraging Judith. ☺️ Like I love that they’re the kind of parents who both will feel it necessary to take time off to take their daughter to the doctor together as a whole family event. 

So Siddiq suggests to Judith that maybe her dad can go first and Rick’s all cutely nodding and willing to do this for his daughter and then he reassures her “And Family Fun Day right after, I promise.” as Michonne nods in agreement. My face hurts from smiling like a dork lol. I love that “family fun day” is the coined phrase for them and that Rick is so eager to give Judith (and Michonne) (and him) this Family Fun Day. I could listen to Rick refer to the three of them as family all day. 💯 

So Rick gets up and he and Siddiq demonstrate the whole breathing thing which is cute and Judith smiles very entertained, which is even cuter. And then Siddiq mentions that Judith’s file doesn’t have a family history. 

And Rick looks over to Michonne cuz they both know why this conversation is a bit awkward. I’m glad Rick confided in Michonne about that whole Lori and Shane moment in season 7 cuz now he has someone who can be on the same page with him about this kind of stuff.

Siddiq asks if there are any conditions that run in the family like allergies and chronic conditions and all that.

Both Rick and Michonne share a knowing look like, “Look our daughter has a very complicated family history” lol. 😬 Like look at their faces and tell me that’s not a direct quote from their mind.

It’s so interesting tho to have a moment in season nine that alludes to stuff that went down in season two. Again, Michonne never even met Lori and Shane but I’m glad she knows enough to be able to share an understanding and supportive feeling with Rick here, rather than this being something Rick has to carry alone. 

And Rick seems very happy to sort of look at Michonne throughout like “well ain’t this a little messy situation cuz of messy Lori & Shane”. Direct quote from Rick’s mind. 😂

But Rick plays it off saying, “I can’t remember much.” I feel like this really does cement that Rick has reason to be sure Judith isn’t his. Cuz I feel like if it was just a “feeling” that she’s not his biological daughter then he would’ve at least tried to think of some family conditions he might have, but Homeboy’s certain so he’s like nope I did the math and you don’t have to worry about my family history here.

I know for R&M, Judith is their daughter period so I feel like that’d be why they don’t clarify to Siddiq that her parents aren’t actually alive, cuz as far as anyone is concerned Rick and Michonne are her parents.

Rick then quickly changes the subject and asks about Aaron and then they talk about the missing savior and all that. Michonne’s a bit concerned about the fact that a savior was sent packing by Rick and left at night, but Rick is fairly certain it’s nbd. 

And I wish it was no problem. I really do. Cuz then that perfect family fun day wouldn’t have had to end so abruptly. But I just have to note this scene for being yet another glimpse into the lives of the Grimes mom and dad. 😊

The next deleted scene is on the picnic blanket. I wanted this picnic blanket scene to be it’s own episode/spin-off series lol. 😂 But I’m glad that since it was only a clip in the montage, that there was at least a deleted scene with them in this moment.

The scene starts with Rick and Michonne watching Judith in this quiet peaceful environment. Judith coughs and Rick is quick to assure both him and Michonne, “It’s just a cough, nothing to worry about.”  

Michonne agrees and says, “Yeah. Still I’m glad we checked cuz you never know.” Mama Michonne’s saying it’s better to be safe than sorry which I’m sure she feels strongly after losing both her sons so suddenly.

There’s something deep about this moment between them because of course they’re caring parents so that’s why this cough is of note to them, but also as of now this is their last remaining kid. And I know they are both so resolved to never lose her or let anything bad happen to her, whether it be something big like a walker and outside threats or something seemingly “small” like a cough and potential sickness.

Rick gets closer to Michonne and says, “If we could just have a few more years like this; quiet ones. For her sake and ours.” 

I really love that it’s been made clear multiple times throughout this series that Rick’s ideal life would consist of just getting peaceful time with Michonne and their family. 

Just like he wanted a few more days in 7x12, here he expresses wanting a few more years to have beautiful moments like this family fun day. The type of day they’re having and have clearly had in the last year and a half is the type of life he wants Judith to grow up with.

It’s sweet that he says for her sake but also for theirs. Of course they want Judith to have the best and happiest life possible, but I appreciate that Rick wants that for him and Michonne too. “And ours”. They’re married, y’all. 🙌🏽💯

I feel like this line is also meant to allude to the fact that raising a new baby in a world that can finally be quiet and tranquil would be great for them and their expanding family. Like he’s saying, if we can have peaceful years like this, then our babies (plural!!) will really be able to thrive.

I’m just glad Rick was written to be so expressive of loving his time with Michonne and their family this season. Like any chance he gets he’s giving her his focus and expressing his love and appreciation both verbally and non verbally. 

It also just makes me think about how, in Carl’s final moments. Carl shared his vision of the future with R&M and one of the things he envisioned is that “Michonne is happy.” That’s something that was important to Carl and has been important to Rick for a long time too. Rick promised Carl he’d make everything in Carl’s vision real and I feel like making Michonne happy has been a priority to Rick this season, after having to go on his own grieving journey last season. 

With this deleted scene, I love that Rick somewhat randomly brings up how what he wants is to live out his years just like this with them. Years, y’all. 🙌🏽 That’s significant cuz in the past nobody had the luxury to think in terms of years, TF was just trying to survive and make it to the next day. But this really does show how sustainable life’s become, that Rick can now talk in terms of years and that he wants that much time to not just survive but really live and enjoy life with his family.

Michonne of course agrees and says yeah. And it’s emotional cuz this is all both of them want. As hard as they’ve fought to survive and as much as they’ve been through, all they want is to be able to put that aside and live life as a family.

And then as they both smile watching Judith, who is their little light, Rick takes Michonne’s hand. I absolutely adore this. 🥰 

One; I adore that they hold hands any chance they get and two; just the act is so sweet, especially because I feel like this is Rick at his most happy and content. And I feel like him taking her hand emphasizes the “and ours” part cuz he’s like this right here, watching our daughter is perfect and also this right here being with you is what makes it perfect too. So he wants Michonne to know that she’s his light and hope in this as well. 😌 

He takes her hand also to just serve as yet another reminder that no matter what happens they’re in it together. The world has a tendency to scream at them a lot but they know they can withstand whatever would come at them in these coming years. 

And this couple is balanced cuz he takes her hand in this moment to offer comfort and then as we saw in the actual episode, Michonne does the same when she takes his hand to offer comfort before he goes. I love the parallel of that cuz it illustrates how they both equally offer each other this comfort and unity. 

I was just looking at Rick and Michonne and Judith together at this picnic like...

Like Rick knows he’s got the best wife and that with all the work the two of them have put in to making this world civil again, he believes they’ll be able to rest and enjoy it. 

He also knows that they’re taking a huge step and investment in believing this world will be at peace, by agreeing to bring a kid into all this. I love that in this moment it’s the two of them, as this unbreakable unit and as this unmatched love, ready to take on the future together. 👏🏽👏🏽😊

So the final deleted scene from this episode is one with Rick and Carol. They all split up with people they trust so Rick pairs with Carol. As they walk Rick notices Carol’s engagement ring and says, “It looks good.” And I was like, Rick there’s another woman who a ring would look real good on too. 👌

Rick goes on to tell Carol how he’s happy for her that she found a good person and the right person in all this. And it’s sweet that he’s taking time out to address this and express his fondness for Carol and Ezekiel. He personally knows how fortunate finding that someone special is, so he’s happy Carol’s experiencing some of what he’s gotten to experience. 

And Carol’s a real one cuz she tells Rick, “You too.” in regards to him finding Michonne. I seriously love that she tells Rick he found the right person for him cuz...

And Rick also was thinking in his head “facts” at the moment, cuz he just looks so proud and certain when he lifts up his head and shoulders and confidently says, “Yeah, I did.” 😋

I’m beyond here for this moment and I really wish it would’ve made the cut. It’s already nice to cement he found a good person in all this but the part I love most is “the right person”. Rick knows he is with the right person. He’s with the one. 

I also wish this scene had made the cut because one thing I had been wanting is for outside characters to acknowledge Rick and Michonne as a couple more. It really hasn’t been since 6x11 where characters really made note of Richonne. And granted it’s not like it has to be the talk of the town but still. 

And it means a lot for Carol to be the one to say this cuz Carol was in season one. She’s known Rick a long time and she knew Lori. So for Carol to be like “Rick, we both upgraded in this apocalypse” is great and it’s true. 💯😋 

I love that Rick gets to acknowledge to someone that he found the right person. He found the person he was meant for and who was meant for him. And he proudly knows it. 

Him and Carol know he’s got the baddest chick in the game. Amen. So Rick says “Yeah I did” but y’all that translates to...

#DirectQuote from the famous Rick Grime’s mind lol.

This moment also reminds me of when Morales ran into Rick in season eight and was surprised to learn that Glenn had found a wife in all this. And Rick was able to acknowledge both there and now how that’s possible, because he’s living out a story where he found his soul mate in all this too. 

It’s great that he so happily and naturally expresses this, especially after the day he’d had with Michonne. Like this is coming off of the beautiful morning he’s had with her and the family fun day they spent together and so he’s especially thinking about how he’s got the right one and the best one and is proud to declare it.

And then Carol smiles and says, “Who’d have thought?” cuz it is quite a whirlwind to think one could find the love of their life in all this, especially after such a tumultuous first relationship, but for Rick that’s exactly what happened.

(Side note: I miss seeing Carol with this haircut. Hopefully she goes back to this style cuz if they’re going to take down Alpha then…they betta call Carol with the short hair 😂.)

In the part of this scene that did make the cut, Rick confides in Carol and tells her that every morning he wakes up and has this moment of wanting to walk down and kill Negan and just finish off the saviors and how in that moment it’s all he wants. I like the significance of this line because we saw what he actually did in his morning which is connect with his family. 

It shows that while he may wake up with a rage towards Negan, he instead turns his attention towards all the good in his life. He turns to Michonne, and Judith, and Carl and then he’s reminded of what’s more important than killing his enemy. His family brings him back. 😌

Rick says he thinks about everyone they’ve lost and how he has to honor them. (Although call me crazy but I low key think Abraham and Glenn would be honored to have someone kill Negan and keep him from messing with anyone else lol. 👀) And Rick says he knows it’s time to build life not take it which is exactly what he and Michonne are doing and have done. 

I appreciate that 9x03 was such a blessing, even the deleted scenes had prime Richonne content. 🙌🏽

And it’s great hearing Rick verbally confirm what we all been knew and that’s that; Rick and Michonne got the right one. 😊💯🎉

gifs source: @michonnegrimes

[thegloriouscollectorlady]

well, post mid season finale, what are your thoughts concerning daryl's arc that you previously laid out? did we hear/see enough to think he is done "going rogue"? his comment to dwight about going to hilltop "all together" possibly signals he has learned his lesson? his holding judith melted me---i would love to be done with rogue daryl :) thoughts on beth's return? did we have to fall even lower to appreciate "hope" when she arrives? do you see carl's death as demise of show as some do? tks!      I am very sorry to whoever sent this in for not getting to this ask sooner and also I apologize because I had some technical difficulties with the tagging and accidentally deleted the original ask. Thankfully I still had the text from the ask in my email inbox so I could copy it into this response . I saw it and really wanted to respond but life has been very hectic with work and the holidays coming and there just haven’t been enough hours in the day. But I am hoping to have some free time this weekend to address this and so much more having to do with the MSF because I actually have a lot to say about it. 

     Okay so for the first part of this what are my thoughts concerning Daryl’s arc? As far as Daryl goes I honestly think it will be very interesting to see where he goes from here. Some positives from the MSF. . . he got his vest back (yay!) , he didn’t kill Dwight on sight when he had just vowed to do so, and he was holding Judith again which to me signaled some very important things about where Daryl’s head is. Remember back to when the group arrived at the ASZ and Daryl was so defeated. He was barely hanging on and he told Deanna that he was going to try to make the ASZ work because of the boy and the baby. They became his reason to persevere after losing Beth. I think that we can assume that Daryl’s love for those children is multifaceted because of course Rick is his brother and he loves them for that reason but Daryl also has a very unique bond with Judith and was well aware as was everyone of Beth’s love for the little girl. So I think we can’t discount that connection and what it means to Daryl so to see him holding Judith again after such a long time of not doing so was very moving. Also the context of the moment is very telling and suggests a lot of things. Then of course Daryl does indeed say that they need to go to the Hilltop “all together” suggesting that he has most likely learned his lesson about going rouge. He’s also probably anticipating that Rick is going to need him and in true brother fashion he is going to be there for him no matter what differences they might have had to this point. The seismic shift that we see happening in the MSF is either going to do one of two things. It’s either going to bring all of TF together like the shift we saw after losing Tye and Beth in Them (5.10) or it’s going to drive an even bigger wedge between members of the group. I think given Gimple’s style that this change will serve to bring the group together for the final parts of the war. I think we will have to wait and see what this means for Daryl’s overall emotional state but I think the last episode or so has drawn Daryl back from the ledge enough that he realizes he can’t just keep acting on his own. We saw his kill them all on sight mentality tempered a bit in his response to Dwight so I think overall we may be headed in a better direction for Daryl. 

     Now on to the second part of this ask which has to do with the direction the show has taken in the MSF and what that means for the show overall. Do I think that Carl’s death heralds in the end of the show? What does this all mean for Beth? I have lots of thoughts on this and I am hoping to post more on it later today but overall in summation I think that Carl’s fate has had an interesting effect on the audience. I’ve listened to lots and lots of people talk about this and write about this and the overall attitude of most people is that the show is in trouble and this last twist in the narrative is a death knell for the show. The fascinating thing to me is that people don’t seem able to actually verbalize why they feel this way beyond general statements of everything about the show has become about being hopeless and about death and suffering. Now I actually agree with this because thematically this has been a thing for a while on the show. I started to think back over the last few seasons and I realized something. This theme of hopelessness and darkness and loss has been a steady ongoing pervasive part of the show since a specific point in the story and that point can be related directly back to Beth. Season 4 had its low points it did. After all this is an apocalyptic drama but overall the general theme was one of hope and perseverance. There were many tiny moments of triumph most of the characters experience dynamic and rewarding growth. Then we moved to 5A and again there was still hope. Even at Terminus TF was sure they would overcome. It wasn’t until Coda that we began to see this dynamic shift in a marked way. Beth’s death heralded in a whole new theme. Think back to the final scenes of Coda when Daryl is standing in the courtyard of Grady and the camera pans back and opens up (in an eerily similar shot to what we just saw in the final moments of 8.8 but in reverse) leaving Daryl and Beth sort of the focal point at a distance with storm clouds gathering in the background. This is the point where thematically the show shifts to a much darker place. After this point the losses just continue to pile up for TF with one after another and while there are small moments of triumph overall the theme becomes much darker. I think that is what the audience is picking up on and can’t verbalize. That pervasive and suffocating feeling of loss that started with Beth and which has continued. The interesting thing to me is that thematically 8.8 was the darkest episode to date. The lighting was even dark and they chose to do it at night in the absence of light and it is during this time that the characters are dealt their biggest blow in the inevitable loss of Carl. For TF this has to be the darkest moment that they’ve faced in possibly ever and with this writing choice Gimple has brought the audience emotionally to the same place the characters are at. Rick, Michonne, Daryl, C@rol, Maggie this final loss is guaranteed to bring them to their lowest darkest place and because of the writing and the way Gimple and his team set this up they’ve managed to do the same to the audience. They’ve made the audience feel what the characters are feeling. What are most people saying about the show? Most commonly what’s the point, why bother watching if there is no hope, it’s too depressing to keep watching, they have no future now so how can this show even continue, how can the show recover from such a low point. The thing is that the writers have presented a lot of those same questions to the characters with this loss so they’ve managed to elicit in the audience a lot of the same feelings the characters themselves would be feeling.       It’s something I find absolutely fascinating and I wonder if they will be able to capitalize on. Done correctly this could be a huge moment for the show. We saw tons and tons of tunnel symbolism around Carl in 8.8 and upon examination Beth and Carl’s stories are too similar for it to be a coincidence. It’s also my personal opinion that this change in the story was something Gimple was planning all along or at least was planning as an option all along. There are hints as far back as S4 that the show might be headed in this direction eventually and there have been subsequent scenes since then that hinted at this outcome. So I don’t believe this was in any way a last minute choice. That’s just my opinion though and I understand that not everyone feels that way. But where do I see the show going from here? Well here’s what I hope to touch on in later posts this weekend to give you an idea of what I am thinking. First of all the tunnel symbolism we’ve seen since S5 with Emily and Chad’s title card was thrown at us hard and heavy in 8.8. I think the thematic darkness we’ve seen since 5.8 with Beth’s death is related to this tunnel and I think that Carl’s death in 8.8 is the completion of this theme and the last we will see of the tunnel symbolism. This is the darkest moment TF has ever faced and after this they will come out of the tunnel into the light. All the deaths and things we’ve seen related to the tunnel symbolism since S5 can be connected through the completion of Carl’s arc in 8.8 and what I expect we might see in 8.9. Gimple is a master story teller when it comes to pulling these story threads together so I think 8.9 might reveal some very interesting things. Given that I believe the tunnel symbolism began in 5.8 with Beth and will end because of what was revealed in 8.8 I think it’s interesting to consider that there are a lot of similarities between Carl’s arc and Beth’s arc. Too many similarities for it to be a coincidence. Then of course there is all the foreshadowing that has been happening since S4 and what exactly does that mean for the future of the show and the passing of the torch? So I think there are still a lot of things to discuss.      Overall though I personally am very intrigued to see where the show goes from here. I know there are a lot of people who are no longer enjoying the show or want to watch it. That’s of course their prerogative. I’ve always said that this show is meant to be enjoyed. That all fiction is meant to be enjoyed and that if you’re no longer doing that maybe it’s time to move on. Good fiction and literature is meant to be a respite from real life. It isn’t intended to make your real life more stressful or miserable. Therefore if you’re no longer enjoying something you shouldn’t continue to engage with it. However, I see this change in story as possibly opening up so many doors that haven’t previously been options. Such a radical change in direction will allow Gimple to do things with the television show that could not be done in the comics. Gimple is a very different type of story teller than Kirkman. Not that one is better than the other they are just different and I think this change allows Gimple to pursue the story he wants to tell which I think could be very exciting. I think we’ve seen enough hints for where this might be headed that I want to see what the actual outcome is. Hey maybe we are wrong and it has nothing to do with what we think it does but maybe we are right too and I want to see what actually happens moving forward. After all this is fiction and anything can happen in fiction so I am excited to see what Gimple does with the possibility of anything can happen from this point forward because the roadmap has been set on fire. Everything we the audience thought we knew and assumed had to happen has changed with this pivotal change in story and it’s opened the door to possibilities most people never even considered. One thing I am sure of is that Gimple has a plan for those possibilities. You know what maybe it’s a horrible plan. I concede that’s totally possible but maybe it’s a genius plan too. Gimple is the man who rewrote Andrea’s pointless death and turned it into a meaningful story, Gimple is the man who wrote episodes such as 18 miles Out, Clear, The Grove, “A”, What Happened and What’s Going on, The First Day of the Rest of your Life, and Mercy, Gimple is the man who orchestrated the conclusion of major arcs such as Tye’s, Abe’s, Sasha’s. These are beautiful and intricate stories and while I don’t know this for sure and I am not sure anyone does yet I would bet that Gimple will have a hand in writing 8.9 and the conclusion of this arc as well. I don’t know what Gimple has planned exactly but in my mind his past planning and writing has earned my respect and my trust in where he is going to take this story. But of course as I’ve said these are just my feelings and I respect that everyone has the right to their own and I would never fault them for that.      But do I think that Carl’s death is heralding in the end of the show? No I don’t. I think it might actually be creating a future for the show a future most can’t imagine that will reinvigorate the show and bring it back to a place of light and hope. Am I still here for Beth? Yes I very much am still here for Beth. Episode 8.8 thematically had so many links to things related to Beth and those things have piqued my interest in regards to the story. Plus there’s this and it’s what I’ve always said. Daryl’s story was intrinsically and purposefully linked to Beth’s in S4. So until we see a resolution to that through Daryl much as we saw with Sasha and Abe I am here to see where it goes. Because Gimple doesn’t leave loose ends so whatever that conclusion is one way or another it’s coming and until we see it I am sticking it out to see what happens. Plus I genuinely enjoy the show. I enjoy complex characters who are more grey than black and white and I enjoy the moral questions the show examines. I also sort of enjoy the way the writers can bring a character to their knees and make you despise them and then later redeem them in a way that has you rooting for them (cough cough Dwight). You don’t see that much on television anymore and I enjoy the complexities of the human interactions examined in the context of what would happen if the world no longer had any rules or social norms. That’s the crux of dystopian literature and it’s something I’ve always enjoyed examining and I think TWD does it in a more down and dirty way than most people dare to. Because in TWD world are there really any good guys or bad guys or are they all just people trying to survive in whatever way they know how?

[remedieschronicles-blog]

Red Robe Chronicles( Part 1)

Red robe chronicles

"You know I like you"

"The fire and desire that I feel when the adrenaline it rushing through me all because you touched me. In ways that made my temple complete.

in the midst of this moment,  you make me, 

I feel at peace

your love is as sweet as the peaches 

that use to grow on my grandfather's tree

 A man with a plan that takes a stand,                                                               each chance he gets while the wisdom,

 knowledge and security increases. 

Yet I have to keep these feelings discrete 

don't make me feel like I need to retreat.

 I want to Be like you.

You know I like you.

 All in one your exactly what I need"

-Jae P. 3:00pm

Chapter 1: Jazzy

"you's a dumb ass bitch!  your one bum ass bitch! I shoulda been left your goofy ass  " is all I heard coming in one ear and out the ear from rocky. Them words did low key slit a piece of my heart coming from somebody I'd take a bullet for but I wouldn't let no nigga see me fold.

 He just sitting in the living room with his legs kicked back like he Pablo. I had got so fed up with the shit what's the sense of arguing about the shit the whole reason why I packed my shit in the first place. I knew better I knew I what I was worth. I just knew if I let the nigga just talk maybe then he would just shut up!  I

 I saw his phone ring and a few missed calls. he has the audacity to answer the phone  "What's up baby"  everything I had in my hand instantly dropped including my feelings and was replaced with a hand full of Dreads and punches followed right after.

This the last time this nigga had me fucked up is all I heard in my head all kind of wild thoughts like I really wanna fuck this nigga life up for fucking up mines!  After a few face shots, the rocky yells "bitch Ima fuck you up! This that nigga Pete on the phone I was just playing” 

wore out from fighting, but still had a hand full of dreads in my hand pushing his face to the floor rocky said aggressively “Damn bitch when you let me up  I should really fuck you up.”

Honestly, I felt so stupid but now that I got in my savage character I didn't know if I should hop off him and take that risk to run to the door or sit there and get my ass beat since the damage was already done.

 Everything happened so fast before I knew it my sew in got snatched so quick and slammed to the ground. My face meeting the bottom of his snake dress shoes. 

Although this was the only fight I came out with no busted lips and black eyes this was the turning part of my life.

After I left Rocky spot My phone starts vibrating I see it's my cousin Zah as I'm driving off I'm bumping” Tynisha Keli mistaken”  in my feelings than a mutha. smoking my blunt downing the bottle of absolute I just got from the liquor store.  I can't believe I wasted 4 years with rocky.Zah calling my phone for the 4th time  I might as well answer cause she know how I and rocky get down

"Jazzy bitchhhh why the Fuck you ain't answer bitch I'm thinking the nigga took care of you like the mafia, " Zah said loud as hell jokingly through my speakers.

“Bitch why the Fuck would you say that now if I really die I'm going to feel like y'all set me up cause Y'all already be too buddy- buddy and shit,” I said rolling my eyes.

“Hoe you play, anyways bitch I need help with this baby shower and you ass been mia, you know pregnant bitches hormones and I just cannot deal right now so pull up. Zah said sounding dramatic. 

"Girl I got way too much going on myself I'm sorry cuzzie love you ask the lame bitch Sasha she be thirsty as hell to be at all the functions anyways, "I said rolling my eyes.

Zah took a deep breath and said "You and rocky need to just get it together Y'all is too cute together he like your soul mate, And it ain't nothing you can't get from that nigga he just got issues like every other hood nigga do. It's either him or the other no good niggas or the low key gay ass niggas. choose your pick cause none of these shit if you ask me so yea Ima call you later boo Ima finish this later I just pulled up at the salon and them hoes be nosey "

Zah walk in the salon and gets a text (TEXT MESSAGES)

Rocky: “you tell her yet?”

Zah: “nigga nah is you still going to give me the money for the baby”

Rocky:  “HOE is it even mines!!!”

Zah: “why tf would you ask that when you know you the only one I been fucking for the past 2 years you got me so fucked up !”

Rocky: “Rs What you gonna’ do shorty I don't got  no time to playing with y'all dumb  goofy ass bitches”

Zah: “Ok come to the shop when we close. Please let's just talk.”

Rocky: “Ight what time you off”

Zah: “8:30″

Zah went into the bathroom and burst into tears. Talking to herself ” FUCK!!! Man, I should have never let this get this deep.”

Poem Title: “ No Trust”

I don't trust these bitches

Nor can I trust a nigga

They are scheming

 yes i be peeping they will  be playing 

you then play the victim

then Get aggressive when you don't follow 

through with certain decisions in certain situations

Is it the control that keeps it going

Is it the strong love is the mission

I saw love destroy souls so I just stay up out the business

I don't wanna be the witness to love gone wrong so later you play victim

Jae p. 6:27pm

I haven't seen rocky since the fight the other day but he just keeps calling me all of a sudden so I finally answer "What rocky"                                                    “ “Baby stop playing and come home you gone just let us go off that little ass fight I love you just come home, " he said while begging.

Man rocky it's always the same shit dude you go out of town come back I'm tired of fighting with you then I'm tired of these random ass bitches hitting me up like I'm a side bitch or something play with them bitches don't play with me.  

“Baby, I know I been fucking up but I ain't been fucking with no hoes lately let me make it up to you I wanna take you to take spot they just built by the mall. “ he said pleading even more.

“You lucky I need to smoke and after that, I'm gone have the munchies so Ima go ahead and take your offer on this food but we will talk  but I need to be at the shop later I gotta  appointment with Zah.”

Rick said “Bet. That's all I wanna hear baby I'm about to come get you so get ready” He pulled up to my apartment 30 minutes later. I jump out the shower while he rings my bell obnoxiously. I wrap my red robe around me, to make sure he see’s what he been missing.

When I open the door he grabs my throat and kisses me. he knows sometimes the rough shit turns me on.  Then he starts grabbing my ass, licking my titties sucking, my neck just being everything I need at the moment.

Then lifts me on the kitchen counter and stuck his thickness inside of me grabbing my ass I'm feeling every inch  him touch my backbone as he spread my cheeks how can I say no to the way he controls my body

As TLC said " a good man is so hard to find and a hard man is so good to find"

Once again I fell for his trap I should have known better.

Poem Title:  Innocent

It was the midst of the moment

that I loved you, and you loved me back

it was the midst of the moment

when it did matter. the past never lasted

it was the moment

When the present aligned  and the future felt on track

it was the midst of the moment

where I fell back. 

I remember innocent

I remember when life was pure

I remember before the pain endure

I Remember everything wasn't anything

I remember when nothing was really clear

I remember before you turned insecure

And I remember

anything wasn't everything  

I remember when we were in love

I remember before love is the opposite of what it seems

Now that we're out of love what do we do

ole dear innocent, what you mean to me

go back  out and get your confidence

and follow your dreams

Take me back a few years ago

when you said what you mean

-Jae p 4:32am

Zah sends a text to Jazzy(TEXT MESSAGES)

Zah: “Bitch I know you fucked up about rocky crazy ass but today Ima give you make over you know that always makes us feel better slide by after 9 I close today plus I got some tea bihhhh”

Jazzy:” iight’ “

Rocky still thraxing me from the back but I keep hearing his phone. and I hear his phone steady buzzing. while the sex getting so amazing, something tells me to lean over to see who blowing up his line like this.. he got somebody name bitch saved as “stupid hoe” and she keeps calling and texting. 5 missed calls and he gets another text. 

(TEXT MESSAGES)

Stupid hoe: babe is you still picking me up from  work

Stupid hoe: ?????

Stupid hoe: wtf dude

After we finished he goes to the bathroom and I sneak and get that “stupid hoe” number out his phone.

He comes out the bathroom. Bae I know I told you I was going to take you out today but I gotta make some runs  here take this money and just shop or something find something nice for me then he hands me, 3 bands,

 I just rolled my eyes everything was too good to be true. “ You always bail out with money. it never fails, does it “ I said annoyed. 

But on the inside, I'm still plotting on finding out who this stupid bitch is.

When he leaves the room I text that number but I noticed the number popped up and was already saved on my phone.

Poem Title: TOXINS

why are into this, 

its a curse less of a blessing

lust and lies, with never the less no confessions

all the secrets, and the box that they were kept in.

the cycle of us, the drift I should have been catching. 

I shouldn't have been stressing

I should have never let you in

all the shit that you put me

never in love, more like in toxin

you told me I wasn't when I was popping

you hated on me then tried to keep me boxed in

drag me through the dirt

I'm so tired of the hurt

all these shattered glass pieces

(TEXT MESSAGES)

Rocky: I'm outside

Zah: okay I'm coming out

I know on the inside I'm wrong as hell for not telling my cousin the truth about me and rocky but I can't piece it together I'm the one that introduced them I feel like I should have had him from the jump anyways.             

I always was in love with him I just didn't think he would take my jazzy seriously. Jazzy had a boyfriend when she and rocky first met. Me Pete her and rocky partied hard a lot of the weekends.Jazzy’s ex-boyfriend ended up taking a job offer in Atlanta and she didn't want to relocate with him.                                          She went MIA for a while after that.  next thing I know her and rocky had a spot together, I find out about them moving in together after our flings so he was definitely playing both sides. 

One night I go to Rocky's main Pete’s party they have every Saturday at the club. They got me so wasted we turned up so hard.                                     I wake up at a hotel the next morning and I see Rocky laying next to me. 11 weeks later I found out I had a baby. I'm not sure how I'm going to tell her..          I don't know how but I'm going to tell her the truth.

I walk outside and see Rocky in his Benz looking all scrumptious. I hopped in the car I instantly see rocky have an attitude.                                                        "Damn Zah why you gotta blow my phone up and shit damn what we gotta talk about you good and shit?"

Zah I'm sorry let me make it right

He whips out his inches and sticks it in. my mouth instantly start watering I just want to please him I just want to be everything to this man, Especially With these pregnancy hormones I didn't care where we were I just needed him.

I'm second guessing maybe we should have pulled off first

When I saw Jazzy pull up my heart dropped she's a little too early she hops out the car and sees rocky Benz and starts to walk toward the car...

Poem: Betrayal

Betrayal is worse than a enemy

I'd expect it from anybody

but some kin to me.

Especially the ones I love so deep

Betrayal stay away from me

Please

You will take my life

or make me take a life

out of spite and that ain't right

you took my heart and slit my pride

that fucked up betrayal never thought you would come around

and turn my world upside down. 

turn my soul inside out

in less than seconds without a doubt. 

Jae P. 3:06am

Jazzy screams " bitch really fucking really my nigga out of all these cheating niggas no good as niggas though.  right hoe you ain't family you a hoe!"         Zah said "bitch, first of all, I knew him way before you know him bitch be cool with all that extra shit"

" Zah be easy with that shit fam you been’ knew this was my nigga period but whole time he been your nigga fuck on some where that's low as fuck zah even for you g my blood though Really” i paused and flinched at her Zah fuck do you mean if you weren't’ pregnant I woulda took off period "

yea ok Bitch I'll light yo ass up stop playing with me then Zah pulls out a 9mm from her oversized handbag

Jazzy yells

bitch do what you wanna do peri.. few shot goes off

Poem Title: LEFT

You tried to leave me with nothing left, 

you got me cold i should have been left, 

you gave me something i never felt

gave me love and looked up i  had no more left

i knew right instead i went left

momma always said 

dont get it in your ass

 keep it all in your head

before you went ahead made things go left

she told me right but i always went left

i put up a fight and had no air left

use to roll the dice and had nothing left

if you love me like you say

why i havnt seen it yet

Hello welcome to WBC newsroom  my name is Andrew our story tonight a double homicide we are going to investigate a double homicide and a suicide the victims have not yet been identified the suspect was the initial suicide shooter in this case

Three victims died around 8 after a couple of calls to 911 for gunshots near the area

There was a note left on the suicide victims windshield saying I couldn't live with without them.

Case still being investigated

[twdmusicboxmystery]

How Scars MIGHT Relate to Leah and Daryl

Okay Everyone, this is a post that I wrote like 6-7 months ago. It was after we learned about Leah and 10x18, but before the episode actually aired. It was really just conjecture on my part. Me, trying to connect patterns and similarities I was seeing.

Why didn’t I post it back then? Because we decided we thought Leah was a hallucination, and at that point, I thought this less likely to pan out.

What I’ll say now is that, if she IS real, this may still be true. And if she isn’t, this pattern may hold but it might be about some other character, other than her. 

Even if it turns out to be completely untrue, just see this as patterns I’m seeing that may come into play in the future. And I wanted to post this today, before ep 1 airs and ep 2 shows up on AMC+.

Also, someone sent me this yesterday:

Norman saying there’s some double agent stuff going on DOES suggest she might be a villain. It’s hard to interpret exactly what he meant by that, but this is one possibility. So here’s what I wrote to my fellow theorists several months back:

Here’s what I have to say about Scars, and I’m still grappling for how best to frame this, so I’m sorry if it meanders a bit. And honestly, it’s nothing super ground-breaking. It’s a lot of what we’ve already talked about concerning Leah, and it comes from what you found about the “masks” lines in the Michonne/Zeke convo, as well as between Daryl and Michonne in Scars. I’m really just giving more evidence for this and predicting a future storyline. You know, like I do. ;D

And one thing I will say is that, while I WANT to tie this to Leah because both her storyline and Jocelyn’s happened during the 6 year time jump, I’m not 100% sure this even has to do with Leah. It might, but it also might not. So, I think this is a coming storyline one way or the other. But it may have to do with Leah or may be completely independent of her. No way to tell, yet.

So, in both conversations (both between Michonne and Zeke and Michonne and Daryl on the swings) they talk about people wearing figurative masks. Daryl specifically talks about someone who has so much evil in their hearts that they actually lie about who they are and present themselves in one way, as one type of person, when really they’re the opposite. 

We see this theme played out all through Scars, because obviously Jocelyn did that. But now that I’m alert to it, I’m seeing it a lot. Even in 10x17, the Sniper fell under this theme. Mostly literally in his case because he was wearing camouflage (a kind of mask) to hide out and kill people. But figuratively, that’s kinda what Jocelyn did, too.

Okay, so let me start at the beginning. I’ve watched Scars twice now and I’m thinking more and more that the thing with Jocelyn happened BEFORE Leah. Now that we know Daryl’s story spans 5 of the 6 years, I think Leah must happen after Jocelyn. Michonne is big and pregnant, so Scars can’t be more than 6 mos after Rick disappeared. 

Michonne asking Daryl if he’s okay being alone definitely hints at the Leah storyline (another reason to link Leah and Jocelyn). But I think it’s a jumping off point for his story. Because he tells Michonne he’s okay being alone, and in that moment, I think he really is. Or at least he really believes he is. The story with Leah will be him realizing he really doesn’t want to be alone. Romantically or otherwise. Which pushes him back toward TF when Carol comes knocking with Henry.

But let’s get to the good stuff.

After Jocelyn shows up, she tells Michonne that some of her kids aren’t with her and she wants to go get them. Jocelyn is hurt and Michonne’s about to pop, so neither of them go. But this is interesting. The three people who go to get her kids in the one building are Gabriel, Aaron, and Eugene.

It was Eugene that really caught my eye. I started going, “hmm. What could this foreshadow?” And I don’t know the answer in detail, but I think it may foreshadow his entanglement with Beth’s return in some way. And of course Aaron and Gabe are both major proxies for Beth, with Gabe being the resident Sirius character. So yeah, kind of side-eyeing that.

The next thing is that we see two hand-drawn posters detailing, through pictures, how to skin and drain both a deer and a rabbit. These are things Jocelyn has obviously made to teach the kids to survive. And I know we noticed them before, with the deer and rabbit being big Beth symbols. But I’m seeing a much bigger theme, having watched the episode several times.

The poster of the deer shows the deer strung up by its legs (head pointed down, I assume). Then, after they bring all the kids to Alexandria, we see several deer strung up this way, and Michonne comments that Jocelyn’s kids are amazing hunters. So, we learn that two of them, Winnie, the blond, and Linus, one of the boys, killed the deer and even prepared them for everyone at Alexandria.

But here’s where it gets more interesting. When Jocelyn captures Daryl and Michonne, she strings them up over pipes in exactly the way the deer being slaughtered are strung up. And of course she brands them like animals. So, in a way, they’re meant to be the deer that she’s going to slaughter.

And I’m not even sure exactly what to make of that where the deer symbol is concerned. I thought about how killing the deer does keep people from the danger of starving to death, so it fits with Deer = Tractor = getting rid of the threat, as I discussed HERE. But I also wonder if deer is synonymous with captivity in some way.

Then there’s the rabbit. I have less to say about it except that the biggest place we saw rabbits were around Lizzie and Mica. And the poster specifically lays out how to kill a rabbit, which is what Lizzie did to Mica. And I think it works here because we’re dealing with evil kids. Like Lizzie. (I will have more to say about the rabbit theory next week. We’ll see them in a big way in 11x01.)

This is where I’m going to link it to the good twin vs evil twin theme. Remember I talked about this with Noah’s twin brothers and of course Lizzie and Mica, even though they aren’t twins. I don’t think we have to have twins or even siblings for this theme, though it’s common for them to do it with siblings like Lizzie/Mica and even Daryl/Merle. Back in S4, there was Pete and his brother as well.

It occurred to me that we have a representation of it here, with Michonne/Judith on one side and Jocelyn/Winnie on the other. Sorry to go racial, but even the ethnicities match up. Michonne, a black woman with a Caucasian daughter (Judith) who isn’t biologically hers (good). And Jocelyn, a black woman with a Caucasian daughter (Winnie) who isn’t biologically hers (evil). See what I mean?

One scene that really jumps out at me is when Michonne and Jocelyn talk in the kitchen. Jocelyn goes out of her way to REALLY earn Michonne’s trust in that scene. Michonne even says, “I’m so glad you’re here,” so she’s obviously fully trusting and loving having her friend around. This is the biggest place where we see Jocelyn’s “mask.”

Then, when Michonne and Daryl are on the swings, Michonne says, “she was a friend. Like, a real one.” She talks about how they’d been through a lot together before, like heartbreak, losing parents, etc. And then she says, “I wanted it to be that way again. I believed her. I let my guard down. I should have known. Should have sensed something.”

Okay, so many ways I could go with that. First of all, it’s REALLY close to what Carol said about Lizzie. “I should have seen it. It was already there.” So, another link to Lizzie/Mica.

But I was also thinking that I can see Daryl thinking this about Leah. Like, he wanted to believe that she would stay with him, that he could love her, but it was all just a mask.

Okay, that may feel like it came out of left field, but it’s essentially where I’m going with this. Let me keep going and I’ll circle back.

When Scars first aired, I said I thought Jocelyn was an anti-Beth parallel. I don’t think many people agreed with me, but I believe that more than ever. And @wdway​’s X/Chevron stuff actually backs it up. My biggest reasoning, originally, was just all the child/baby stuff around Beth. I can see her doing something similar to this—raising an army of mini-Daryls—but of course she would be good and raise them with good values. Jocelyn will be a foil to her.

Watching it again, there are SO many Beth symbols around this Jocelyn story. There’s the deer and rabbit, which I’ve mentioned. At one point, Gabriel is telling a story to all of Jocelyn’s kids, and he covers one of his eyes, showcasing only his Sirius eye. We have Eugene going to find the kids. And of course, the X-shaped brands in Michonne and Daryl’s backs, which is where the Chevron stuff comes in.

So, one way or the other, I feel like this is a foreshadow of something to do with Beth and/or her return.

Then, at the end, I paid close attention to what Michonne says to Judith, and I picked up on a few things that had never registered for me before. Remember that, in this episode, they juxtapose these Jocelyn flashbacks with Daryl coming to Alexandria with Lydia and Henry, and Michonne doesn’t want them to stay, but Judith does, etc. And at the end, Judith takes off on her bicycle and Michonne has to go find her.

So, at the end, they’re sitting on the rock together and Michonne is telling Judith about the Jocelyn situation. She says that when Judith came out of the trailer, it “was like you were looking right at me and didn’t know it was me. I thought you’d changed, or that I’d lost you.” (Emphasis mine.)

Think about that. It’s a really odd thing to say about a two- or three-year-old kid. Like she thought Judith had turned evil or something. And I think plot-wise, she means that she thought Judith would think differently of her because she’d just killed all these kids. Michonne had a lot of guilt about that. But it’s a really odd wording, and kind of hearkens back to the mask symbol. People wearing masks, appearing to be something they aren’t.

We’ve also discussed extensively the idea of Beth’s memory loss: (X, X.) Maybe her seeing Carol but not knowing who she is, or Daryl seeing or hearing Beth but not believing it’s really her. It just sort of plays into the whole hallucination theme obliquely.

Judith then says that Michonne just didn’t look like herself because of all the blood, but after a moment, she saw it was her. So, more masks. And Michonne was kind of right. At first, Judith really didn’t recognize her, or at least thought she looked like someone else. More of the same theme.

But that bicycle is a big deal. It’s showcased obviously in the episode, and bikes almost always represent kidnapping or captivity. We saw them around Glenn in S1 when he was taken by the Vatos gang. We saw one outside the Claimer house when Rick got away. I feel like this foreshadows Judith being kidnapped. She already was once by Jocelyn. But Michonne sees that bike in the present-day scenes, which makes them a foreshadow, not a callback.

So, I’ll be the first to admit that this is mostly speculation and at least half head canon, but I’m really wondering if Leah and Beth will be the good and evil to one another. (This is obviously going to be the case in terms of a good/healthy vs unhealthy romantic relationships. And if Leah is a hallucination, and Beth will obviously be real, you can already see how they’re doing this with Beth and Leah.)

Leah is wearing a mask when Daryl is with her. And once again, she may not be totally evil like Jocelyn was. But she may be misrepresenting herself in some way. Toxic at the least, evil at the most. But maybe the reason she’s practically wearing Beth’s clothes is that she’s a foil or anti-parallel to Beth.

And you see what I mean about how, if Leah turns out to be a hallucination, clearly this won’t apply to her in a literal way.

I still think there’s a good chance she’s a hallucination, but I think this still applies. It wouldn’t be literal or physical if that’s the case, but she’s still the “bad” relationship as opposed to the good one Daryl will have with Beth. We all talked extensively about how unhealthy the relationship was right after 10x18 aired. How Leah gave him an ultimatum, didn’t seem to want to meet his family, etc. So, you can see that, real or not, the relationships will be juxtaposed, with one being good and the other, bad.

The other thing want to mention is that it’s interesting that they did this story (Scars) with Michonne instead of Daryl. It makes me think that something about Michonne and Rick’s reunion story might follow this template as well.

We’ve discussed how Leah might be part of the New Mexico symbolism, and I’ve had people message me that they’re afraid that when Daryl and Carol take off together for the spinoff, he’ll be looking for Leah. Now, I obviously don’t think he would be looking for her in a romantic/looking-for-Beth sort of way, but it’s possible that she may be involved.

And like I said at the beginning, I think there’s a good chance of parallels between Leah and Jocelyn, because they both happened during the 6-year time jump, and then there’s all the other ties like, “are you okay being alone,” the mask theme, and that Carol knew about her/the acorn conversation.

I’m actually thinking this less and less, now. I really don’t think the New Mexico symbolism will be fulfilled until the spinoff, and we already know Leah will be in s11. So, I suppose if she survives S11 (and depending on whether she’s real or not) she COULD still be involved, but the timelines just don’t seem to match up to me. At least, not right now. This may change depending on what S11 brings us.

So, total conjecture here, but I’m really wondering if Leah (or if not her, someone else Jocelyn foreshadowed) will kidnap Judith, and that’s why Daryl and Carol leave to go after her. It would fit with the TWB template for Daryl and Carol (Felix and Huck on TWB) to be following Judith (Hope and Iris on TWB). If so, Daryl might really might be following Leah to New Mexico, but not out some romantic inclination, but rather because she took the kids.

Another possibility, of course, is that Leah is real, but Daryl was drugged or is just remembering things wrong. If that ends up being the case, then this could still happen. But again, we’ll just have to wait and see.

So yeah. Let’s just say I have plenty of head canons filed away in which Beth kicks some evil Leah butt. I would enjoy that very much. :D Granted, it probably won’t play out quite that neatly for us, but that’s what head canons are for, right?

And as I said, I can’t be sure this has to do with Leah. It’s possible this storyline is completely independent of Leah, and she’ll be something else entirely. But I think something like this will happen either way. And I’m sure I’ll recognize it as fulfillment when it does.

Any thoughts?

[twdmusicboxmystery]

Hints of Beth and the CRM War in 5x09

So, after I re-watched 6x08 and 6x09, which I posted last week, I also decided to re-watch 5x09. I did so for various reasons, including a comment I received on an old theory. But mostly, I’d been wanting to rewatch this episode for a while. I had a hunch that there might be hints toward the CRM war in it that we couldn’t possibly have known about or recognized back in S5. I was not disappointed.

Tyreese, Lizzie & Mica:

So, in this new comment I got, this commenter said she thought Ty was likening the twin boys to Lizzie and Mica. And I’m sure this has been discussed in some iteration, but I sat and thought about it in a way I hadn’t before. I know I’ve discussed that it seems, from the photos, that there seemed to be a “good” and “evil” twin, and obviously that has ties to Lizzie and Mica. But just think about it this way. Ty was obviously present for the Lizzie/Mica tragedy. Then, he’s killed by one of these twins as a walker.

A random line from 5x04, 4 Walls and a Roof, came to my mind. After Abe and co get on the short bus to go to D.C., Ty is digging graves (for the Termites they killed) and Rick goes to help him. Rick asks him something about what happened on his way to Terminus or something like that (can’t remember the exact question) and Ty answers that what happened “killed me.” Rick, looking a little annoyed, says, “No, it didn’t.” And that’s it.

 But it occurred to me that Ty’s line is a foreshadow. He was speaking about Lizzie and Mica, saying that their deaths killed him (emotionally) but it was a foreshadow that another set of siblings would actually kill him a few episodes later. I don’t have a whole lot more to say about this particular thing, though I’m going to talk more about Ty in a minute.  

The thing is, I really don’t think we understand the point of Lizzie and Mica, yet. We’ve had lots of theories, talked about how they impacted Carol, the ways in which they could be Beth proxies. But I don’t think we understand their significance in the grand scheme of things, and I’ve never quite known what to do with them symbolically. But given that they’re in Ty’s hallucination WITH BETH tells me we will probably figure it out when she returns.

Hints of the CRM in 5x09:

Several years back (like during S6) I tried so hard to figure out what the radio messages in 5x09 pointed to, and couldn’t really come to any solid conclusion about them. Of course, back then we knew absolutely nothing of the helicopter people, so how could I?

We’ve definitely seen some of the things they talk about come to pass, both before and after this episode. They mention prisons (prison fell before this) and setting people on fire (Carol did that both in S9 and also to Karen and David in S4) and of course they mention machetes (Red Machete). All important symbols.

But these messages also tell a story. Look at what they say:

“At least 68 citizens of the Republic have been killed in four deadly attacks along the main coastal district. The group has continued their campaign of random violence, moving across the countryside unfettered, with the Republic’s military forces in disarray.”

Okay, so I’m assuming the “republic” is the CRM. This suggests a different group performing guerilla warfare against them. Think about all the symbols these lines encompass. We have a group of rebels attacking the CRM, the COASTAL district, and of course the CRM itself. So it’s talking about some rebel group that will be fighting against the CRM.

I think that’s super significant, especially because of the TWB template. Remember that we saw a group of rebels, perhaps led by Will, though it’s a little unclear as yet, who is Beth’s proxy in that template. And they’re outside the CRM and, presumably, because they saw the slaughter at the college, going to fight against it. So I’m seeing this as a huge hint for Beth’s return.

The other thing to bring into the mix here is the Wolves. Because all of this in 5x09 definitely foreshadowed the wolves, and it’s where we first saw their “WOLVES NOT FAR” signs. And where did we see TONS of Beth symbolism: around the wolves.

Second message: “…then terrorizing the village by night, carrying out revenge attacks which include hacking innocents with machetes, and in some cases setting them on fire.”

Okay, so I get that this isn’t flattering for Beth or her group if she’s with the rebels, but it is really hard to know what they’re talking about here, since we don’t get the full sentence. The point is, these are acts of war, and even if this is talking about the rebel group doing this (and I think it probably is, given that wolves did all of these things a few episodes later in 6x02) it’s no worse than what we’ve already seen the CRM do.

But I can also see that if Beth is with or leading this group, this is a very Grady-like issue to be dealing with. Are we killing these people for the greater good, because the war needs to be won? You can see how Grady could easily have been a setup for what she’d be dealing with later on. And maybe she’s the “new sheriff” because she has to police her own people and not let them get too blood thirsty. Or maybe I’m reading into this WAY too much and the point is simply that there will be a violent war. ;D

There’s only one more message that comes out of the radio. So we had the first one, talking about the CRM war and a rebel group attacking the CRM. Then talk of wartime violence.

The third message is Beth singing her song. That’s super on-the-nose, if you ask me. No more clear way to say that Beth will be part of the conflict the radio voice was just talking about. See why that made me happy?

Tyreese…Again:

I’m gonna make a sweeping claim, here. I think the themes around Ty’s death are pretty much the point of the entire series. Yes, I know that’s a tall order. Let me explain. It does tie heavily into Beth’s return, but it encompasses other things as well, and I think it’s a huge part of the current Negan/Maggie/forgiveness story line.

So, when I first went to watch 5x09, I pulled up S5 on Amazon and it shows all the episodes, the first one, of course, being 5x01. And the little picture it had for that episode was Ty in the cabin with baby Judith. I sat and thought about that and that there’s the picture of a cabin in 5x09 that gets blood on it and it occurred to me that those two things are probably related.

So I watched 5x01 after watching 5x09. I’ll admit I didn’t see tons of smoking guns that haven’t already been discussed at length in 5x01. The biggest thing is simply that it was a setup for Ty’s death themes in 5x09, and I definitely need to revisit my cabin theories. ;D

So, if we look at the people Ty hallucinated, there’s the Gov, Lizzie, Mica, Beth, Bob, and Martin, right? These are all obviously people and events Ty feels guilty about. Bob’s death, because he lied about Martin and that sent the Termites after them. He feels guilty about being duped by the Gov and not realizing what a bad guy he was. Lizzie and Mica for obvious reasons. And Beth.

I honestly don’t think Tyreese did anything to feel guilty about with Beth. Not in the same way we think Sasha might have (Sasha/Tyreese Theory). But based on what the Martin hallucination says, I think he’s just really broken up about it and wondering if he could have done anything to change it. Just my opinion, though.

So, if you listen carefully to who is saying what in the hallucination, we have two different representations of good and evil. There’s 1) Bob vs. Martin and 2) Beth/Lizzie/Mica vs. the Gov. In each case, they’re like good and evil angels sitting on Ty’s shoulder and they’re arguing.

So, for example, Martin says the thing about Ty lying about his death and how, maybe somehow, if Bob hadn’t died, it would have changed things with Beth. Domino shit. And then Bob says [paraphrasing] “No, that’s bullshit. I got bit at the food bank. It went the way it had to. The way it was always going to.”

And we have the same thing going on with the Gov. He’ll basically tell Tyreese what an idiot he is, and then one of the three (Beth/Lizzie/Mica) will say, “No. It’s all right. It’s better now.”

So, you can see that Ty is really at war with himself internally.

It’s important to note that one big thing that’s mentioned is that he forgave Carol for Karen’s death. The Gov actually says that Ty is weak and ridiculous because he sat across the table from a woman that murdered someone he loved, and he actually forgave her. The Gov really razzed him about that.

And this is one of the things I mean about over-arching themes. Carol killed Karen and David in S4, which we all know was one great big foreshadow of arcs to come, and Ty forgave her.

I really think this was probably meant to be a foreshadow of Negan. Negan’s story, killing Glenn, was a way bigger deal and way more front and center, mostly because no one really knew Karen except for an episode or two and Glenn was such a beloved character.

Now, we have this redemption arc for Negan and Maggie is going to have to decide if she’ll forgive him, moving forward. We could apply this to plenty of other story lines where Rick took the violent route or forgiveness wasn’t had, and it leads to trouble and death. So, I think this is pretty huge for the overall show.

And I really think it points to Negan doing something to save TF in some way. Because they forgive him and he’s allowed to live, that will save lives. We’ve talked about this with Daryl showing Dwight mercy as well.

My Biggest Beth Takeaway:

As the episode progresses, before Rick and Michonne come to get him, Tyreese does finally stand up to the Governor. He says that the Gov was a bad guy, and that wasn’t his (Ty’s) fault. He says what he talked about with Noah: that he never turned off the radio. He always faced it, and did what he could to help. He said he forgave Carol specifically because “it’s not over.” Which I take to mean that he has hope for the world’s future, and forgiveness is the only way forward. Being angry and holding a grudge only brings death.

And then he said the thing that jumped out at me most: 

“People like me CAN live.”

Okay, so what does he mean by ‘people like me?’ Because obviously Ty didn’t live, so this doesn’t apply to him directly. Or if it does, he means that he’ll die, but people like him CAN live under some circumstances.

To figure this out, we have to go back to his cabin in 5x01. During that entire scene in No Sanctuary, Martin was giving him crap about being a “good” guy. Ty answers, “you don’t know what I’ve done.” And Martin looks at baby Judith and says, “no, you’re a good guy. You save babies. That’s a little like saving an anchor when you’re without a boat in the middle of the ocean.” (Total boat/water reference.)

So, when Ty says “people like me,” he means those who choose to be good. Who choose to be hopeful and moral, rather than violent. There’s a long-running theme in the show that Chris Hardwick mentions a lot, that people who function as the moral compass of the group often die. And that’s true.

But here, Ty says, “people like me” (meaning the moral compasses) CAN live.

And Beth is in the room with him when he says that.

She’s looking at the clock radio that simultaneously reads 5:10 (music box) and also 8:22 (Resurrection).

The skeptic might argue that all these other people are in the room too, and how can we be sure he means her? Well, putting all the mountains of TD evidence aside, they do have a point. After all, all the “good” characters Ty hallucinates (Bob, Beth, Mica) are moral compasses and fit the criteria. There are plenty of others not represented here (Hershel, Dale, Glenn, Denise, even Abraham to an extent) but these are the ones Ty felt particularly guilty about.

But I would argue that we only heard one person’s voice come through the radio: Beth’s.

So once again, look at this from a bird’s eye view. Talk of the CRM and a coming war. Then Beth’s voice comes through that same radio, suggesting she’ll be part of it. And later on, “people like me CAN live.”

See what I mean? As I told my fellow theorists, this episode really had all we needed to predict Beth’s return. We just couldn’t have understood the meanings back then.

And honestly, this may be the explanation for the Lizzie/Mica thing I mentioned above. It’s a representation of the evil killing the good, which is super traumatizing and messes everyone up because as humans, we’re hard-wired to believe good will win out.

So, we had Lizzie/Mica, Noah’s brothers, and then the good vs evil hallucinations I already talked about. And we might even have a representation of this at Grady because of evil officer Bob.

We had good Bob who died in 5x04, and then Evil Officer Bob, who directly led to them only having two prisoners, which directly led to Beth getting shot. And I remember when it aired, the show brought a lot of attention to it by doing clickbait articles about why there were “two Bobs.”

So, it’s something they wanted us to notice. And then we see Bob in Ty’s hallucination here. I gotta think that Sasha and Ty’s sibling relationship plays into this in some way as well.

Okay, I’ll shut up, now. But re-watching this gave me tons of hope. We can’t say for sure that we’ll see her in the bonus episodes (though obviously I hope we will) but I’m more sure than ever that she’ll be part of the CRM war. And we’re kind of on the cusp of that. We just have to sit back and wait. ;D

[twdmusicboxmystery]

8x15: Worth - Re-Watch

This episode focuses on Eugene and him making bullets for Negan. This is when Daryl and Rosita try to go get him, but that doesn’t go so well. I’ll also talk about Aaron and Oceanside, and this is where Negan kills Simon. This is also where Negan reveals that he knows Dwight is the traitor and takes him prisoner.

So, first we have this scene where Michonne is lying on her bed, in the exact same pose as in 5x15 with Noah’s T-shirt. I told myself I was gonna pay attention to this and figure out what the connection was. And then I totally, um, forgot. Lol. The only connection I’m seeing is that (due to the turnip and all the other stuff) this may foreshadow Michonne going to search for Rick, right? Well, right after she lays on the bed this way in 5x15, she and Rosita go outside of Alexandria to search for Sasha. So maybe that foreshadowed the same thing? I’m not sure. We may not entirely understand this until we see more Rick/helicopter stuff play out.  

For the Eugene stuff, it’s all pretty interesting, but I don’t have to say too much about it, because it just points to what I keep saying about him. Up through this episode, he’s still determined to help Negan bring Rick and co under control. 

Here, Rosita and Daryl sort of kidnap him and Rosita gets in his face, telling him TF won’t kill him, but she’s pissed at his betrayal, and they’ll force him to do something meaningful with his “pathetic life.”

That really gets to Eugene and he decides here that he’ll sabotage the guns, which ultimately helps TF win the final battle against Negan. So, this probably foreshadows him doing this again against the helicopter people. Sabotaging the guns so they backfire probably foreshadows him doing something much bigger to help TF win against the helicopter group.

And of course we have the part where he hides in the ashes and then pops up from them after Daryl and Rosita run by. That definitely screams phoenix/Beth/probably helicopter group.

I could say more about specific symbols and interesting sequences (including cars, walkers, serious references, etc) but most of them ultimately just point to what I’ve already said. (Or, I don’t know what they mean, but would just say they point toward something in the future with the helicopter group.)

Let’s talk about Aaron and Oceanside. They spread his whole Oceanside thing over like six episodes, so it feels really random and disjointed. After watching the whole thing and putting it together, well, it still doesn’t make a lot of sense for S8. It’s another one of those story lines that really doesn’t go anywhere. But, after looking at the whole sequence, I have a better idea of what it means.

So, it starts with Aaron and Enid going to Oceanside, several episodes past. The basic gist is that I do think the two of them represent Beth and Daryl, with Aaron representing Beth and Enid representing Daryl. I don’t have to explain to you why Aaron might be a Beth proxy here (he often is). As for Enid, keep in mind that she lost Carl, her soul mate, this season, much as Daryl lost Beth. And Carl often = Beth, so it works.

So, they first go to the distillery to get alcohol to take to Oceanside and bribe them. I have two possible ways to interpret this sequence. They really end pretty much the same way. The difference is in the beginning part.

So, maybe them going to the distillery represents Beth and Daryl’s arc in S4. It’s just a very subtle nod to the moonshine shack. The other interpretation is that this represents something that will happen in a future season that has to do with alcohol, and the moonshine shack foreshadowed THAT.

So, then there was the whole sequence, which made very little sense, about them sitting in their car in the dark and the Oceansiders show up and Enid shoots Natania. I thought that perhaps this COULD represent Beth getting shot (Enid is quite distraught about it) but admittedly that’s a bit weak. More likely, it represents some future arc we can’t guess at, yet.

Enid and Aaron are taken prisoner at Oceanside, but Cyndie says she isn’t willing to kill them and just basically tells them to get out. She’s definitely not willing to help in the war against Negan.

This was the first part that confirmed for me that this was Beth/Daryl thing. Cyndie tells her people to un-handcuff them and Enid gets scared that Cyndie might be intending to execute them. She says, “You’re taking us to the beach?” Which is weird because no one said anything about the beach. At all. But it hearkens back to Abraham’s “battlefield to beach” line, which is definitely a Bethyl thing.

(On that subject—don’t you love when I interrupt my own interruptions, lol—Eugene also had a line about Alpha to Omega. It just made me realize that all the Alpha to Omega references, including Paula’s in S6,  probably point to the final battle with the helicopter people. Omega means the end so it probably all points the final, big battle of the series, which I think will be against them. But anyway.)

So then Enid and Aaron end up outside of Oceanside and he tells her to return to Maggie and he’ll stay and try to change Cyndie’s mind. This is the next part that really caught my attention. We have the hug that is reminiscent of the Bethyl hug, even if it’s from the front rather than the back. (That sounds twisted, lol.)

But we also have some more interesting dialogue here. He tells her that she specifically needs to tell Maggie not to come rescue him, which seems purposeful to me. Some future arc involving Beth, Daryl, and Maggie. Then he starts saying things like, “It’ll be okay. I’ll be okay. No matter what, I’ll be okay.” (More Beth proxiness.) And then Enid says, “Promise me I’ll see you again.” And they hug.

So again, two possibilities. This might represent Beth and Daryl separating in S5. Even though that wasn’t intentional and Enid and Aaron’s is, it might represent that Beth (Aaron) lived and Daryl will see her again. Not to mention, if you remember, Aaron spends the next little while alone out in the woods, away from TF, and there’s a lot of water involved.

The other option is that this entire thing represents something we haven’t seen yet. After they reunite and come back together, at some point in the war, they’ll have to go to different places to handle different things, and they’ll have a conversation similar to this. Which would be really sweet and romantic. And again, this seems to be tied to the whole idea of Daryl drowning on the beach that @angelthefirst1​ talked about.

So then, as I said, Aaron spends a lot of time outside Oceanside. First, he starts to pass out because he’s had no food or water. Cyndie, Rachel, and Beatriz find him, but basically just step over and ignore him. Beatriz tells him to find himself some water. (Beth and helicopter group anyone?)

Then it starts raining, which really mirrors what happens in 5x10, and that was probably a foreshadow of the same thing.

He then gets really water-logged, fights walkers, passes out. When he awakens again (this is in 8x15) the Oceanside women are standing around him. He speaks to them and finally convinces them to help against Negan.

They then show up at the end of the war in 8x16 and throw Molotov cocktails at the Saviors. And there are some interesting things in that scene (Gracie is a baby and is crying throughout it; Tara wants to stay behind to slow down the Saviors because she’s afraid they’ll hear the baby crying. That all feels really symbolic to me.) But overall, while they helped Tara’s group, Oceanside’s contribution to the war was really minimal.

Which means it foreshadows something. (Setting bottles of alcohol on fire and using them is bombs definitely smacks of the moonshine shack.)

So, after Enid and Aaron split up, the two ways I was interpreting the sequence kind of meld into one. It basically just foreshadows Beth talking some group of people into coming to help in the bigger war, and they will. In fact, we’ve talked about whether Beth is with Stefanie’s group, and whether they’re part of the helicopter people, or part of the Commonwealth, or neither. 

And there’s no way to know how it will all play out. But I was thinking that if the Saviors represent the helicopter group in a future war, this suggests Beth talking a different, smaller group into coming to help. Which is something many of us have theorized for a long time.

That’s it for today. I’ll go over 8x16 tomorrow. Stay tuned! ;D 

[twdmusicboxmystery]

TWD 10x01: Lines We Cross - First Thoughts

Today I’m going to talk about the big things that jumped out at me. Tomorrow, I’ll do Details, which will be longer and focus in on the nitty gritty symbolism. Throughout the week, I’m going to try and do posts on the structure of the episode (the headings throughout), the opening credits, and the radiation reference. Wish me luck in getting all these written. But let’s dive right in!

***As always, spoilers for TWD 10x01 abound below! Don’t read until you’ve watched! You’ve been warned.***

Plot Recap:

 TF trains on the beach against walkers and shows off their mad skills. It’s obvious that in months since The Storm, they’ve realized the Whisperers are no longer in the area. The kids recover a skin mask, which makes everyone think the Whisperers might be back. Michonne leads a group to look for more signs of the Whisperers’ return, and she finds some. Daryl and Carol hang out together. Meanwhile, back at Alexandria, Eugene, Rosita, Father Gabriel, and Siddiq raise baby Coco with some mild hilarity. People still discriminate against Lydia for being a former Whisperer, but she and Negan seem to be forming an understanding because they’re both outcasts. 

Then a Russian satellite falls from the sky, causing a fire where it touches down. TF has to cross Alpha’s arbitrary border to put it out. They decide it’s something they have to do because the fire threatens their homes and food supplies. They work all night together to put out the fire and succeed. In the morning, Eugene wants to harvest parts of the satellite to use in the communities. Daryl takes Carol to where he and Alpha looked out over the walker herd and talked, before the heads on the pikes were discovered. It ends with Alpha herself emerging and looking at Carol, which means she knows they’ve crossed her borders.

Biggest TD Symbols:

In general, there were about a billion dog, ocean/sea, and bird references. I’ll mention a few today, but get into them more in tomorrow’s detail pos. But I felt like not a single minute went by when we didn’t get one of these references, either in things we saw or in dialogue. I had to keep pausing the episode because I had so many things to write down, and that honestly doesn’t happen to me often.

Today, I want to focus a few in particular, because these are the ones that jumped out at me in a big way. 

1. The first happened before the episode even began. You know how they always show text on the screen, even before the recap, that says, “This program contains violent content…parental discretion…yada yada?” That text has always been shown against a black or perhaps grey screen. Well, they suddenly decided to put it against a picture of a dog.

The shot I got of it isn’t great. It’s actually a dog looking at an orange lamp shade. It shows a lot of the lamp at first for like half a second and then the black outline covers it. It zooms out a little and we get a piece of the lamp again. I mean…why suddenly put a black and white dog there this season? (Sirius/return symbolism.) I’m telling you, this is our season.

2. The second is one that @frangipanilove pointed out. The scene that includes Daryl, Connie, and Dog. Connie brings Dog to Daryl and holds up a sign that says, “I think you lost something.” 

So, dog? Lost? Something Daryl lost that is being returned to him? That’s a super-obvious Sirius/Beth reference. And it involves Connie. Much like last season, she’s being set up as a Beth stand in. Not so much a direct proxy, but we’re seeing Beth callbacks and symbols around her. (Incidentally, I think that’s why tptb pushed the idea of Donnie so hard; they aren’t advocating for these two characters specifically, but rather it’s a clue (albeit very misdirectional) about who Connie represents.)

Let’s consider the scene setup.

Connie was already on the beach working on a net with some others (including Kelly). Then Daryl and Dog show up. Dog runs up to Connie because they’re pals. And Daryl waves at Connie but doesn’t come over. He goes up the beach to the dock where Carol’s boat is about to come in to meet her. Then a few minutes later, Connie walks onto the dock as well, bringing Dog with her and says the thing about him having lost something.

So, think about it this way. Daryl and Dog go their separate ways (just for a few minutes) and then Daryl LITERALLY goes up the road a bit, (as he said to Beth in Alone) and then Connie shows up and returns Dog to him. A very obvious Sirius reference if there ever was one. But I think it’s important that it’s Connie that brings Dog back.

If I were to try and interpret this sequence beyond just being an obvious Beth/Sirius reference, I would say Connie is going to have something to do with returning Beth to Daryl. I have a LOT more to say about how I think this is going to go down. I’ll talk about it later in the week when I do a predictions post based on what we’ve learned from this episode.

3. Luke and Jules’ hot dog conversation. At first, I didn’t know what to make of this, but they focused on it and it’s too random to not mean anything. @frangipanilove helped me figure it out. Obviously a hot dog is a different thing than a dog (Sirius/Dog Star symbolism) but even so, this is a dog reference. I thought the “hot” part might refer to fire (like Beth and Daryl burning down the moonshine shack). But @frangipanilove tells me that Sirius actually means “scorching” or “glowing.” So to call Sirius a “hot” dog star wouldn’t be incorrect.

But this is even better than just that. It takes place around a budding romance *coughs Bethyl* and even has an obvious romantic/sexual angle. So I figure, since Luke is the musician (think Stradivarius from last season) he probably represents Beth in this analogy. Which means Jules would be Daryl. She “found” a bunch of “hot” dogs at sea. See what I mean? To me this is an obvious Bethyl reference and it’s setting up that in this next arc, not only will Beth return to Daryl, but we’ll finally see their romance take place.

4. Callback to the Claimers. You know that part where Daryl and Carol were hunting walkers? Yeah, major callback to the Claimers. To Daryl and Lennie shooting the same rabbit with their two arrows. And then Daryl says to Carol, “You’re supposed to call it.” She says, “you didn’t call it.” And he says, “I don’t want to play with you anymore if you’re going to cheat.” They both laugh, but calling it is just like when the Claimers “claimed” things.

I’m honestly not sure exactly what to make of this yet. The last time we saw the Claimers wasn’t in S4 but in The Red Machete with Legs. So it’s definitely calling back to some things that make me happy, but I’m just not sure how to interpret it yet.

Other things:

I’m not sure entirely what’s up with the Russian satellite, but let me say for now that this is a VERY significant development. Again, I can’t be sure exactly what they’re setting up with this in the plot, but symbolically, it’s huge. I’ll talk about this later in the week in conjunction with the radiation reference. I’ll also talk about Ezekiel coughing and wheezing. I know there are lots of theories floating around about that, and I have a lot to say about it, but I’m saving it for the radiation post. Bear with me. (There’s SO much to talk about from this episode! Dah!)

We get a bunch of cool character references. One to Tara, several to Rick. Also Jesus and Eric. I really liked those.

Setups:

I always say that the premiere episode sets up what will happen throughout the season. But because we also have some changes to the opening credits, this is not only the beginning of a new season, but the beginning of new arc. So these may be setups for the season, or for a much larger arc. No way to tell for sure yet. 

1. The most obvious is the Whisper War. Alpha knows they crossed the border and that will probably be the kickoff of the official war.

2. Aaron is sick of being the “nice guy,” and Negan wants to lay low and avoid getting his hands dirty where the Whisperers are concerned. All those who think either of things will lead to a peaceful life, raise your hands.

In the CBs, Negan gets involved in the Whisper War in a big way, and while it will probably be different in show, I think that’s what they’re setting up here. I have a lot to say about Aaron, but for now, just revisit THIS POST where I talk about how he will probably be involved in Beth’s return as well.

3. Siddiq is having serious post-traumatic stress over the killings he witnessed in 9x15. That can’t be good. 

4. The stuff with Eugene, the satellite, and the radiation reference are all important and probably setting something up. Again, more detail on where I think it’s going to come, but just keep it in mind for now. They went out of their way to emphasize these things in the premiere, and that’s significant.

5. Daryl and Carol. Shipping wars aside, their conversations together probably had more TD symbolism and references than any other in the episode. For the most part, I found it to be very inline with what I said in THIS POST about them taking off together and how it follows the template from S5. More details to come on this as well, but the two of them finding Beth together (as they did in S5) would explain why they have all these references. I’ll illustrate more over the next few days. 

6. Coming Drought. We’ve been talking a lot about water scarcity that’s coming because of Fear. We saw references to it here because when they were trying to put out the fire, people were constantly saying, “I’m out of water.” That’s a dialogue foreshadow, y’all. And it’s in conjunction with the satellite and radiation references. So just keep it in mind.

7. Beth! The last is the best. Between Connie bringing Dog to Daryl and the Luke/Jules/Hotdog reference, I feel like this is setting up that Beth will return to Daryl sometime during this arc. New Opening credits show that we’ve entered a new arc. One in which Beth will return.  

Unfortunately, I can’t say for sure that it will happen this season. I’ll talk more about the structure of this episode and how it foreshadows what we’ll see during this arc in a day or two, but sometimes these arcs can last multiple seasons. So I’m not going to say that I think for sure she’ll return in S10 (though I certainly hope she will) but rather than it will be in this arc, which could possibly be several seasons long.

Shipping:

I’ll end by mentioning the Connie and Carol situations. Only because I know there’s a lot of meltdowns happening in various fandoms right now. Just know that there’s nothing to worry about. 

I know people have noticed the Kelly eyebrow raise. I did too, Obviously Kelly thinks there something going on there, but that doesn’t mean there is. At first, I thought maybe Connie’s reaction was one of embarrassment, which might show that Connie is crushing on Daryl. Even if that were the case, Daryl is much more focused on Carol than on Connie, so I think it’s safe to say he doesn’t return it.

But upon watching it again, I think Connie’s reaction to Kelly was more annoyance than embarrassment. Which suggests there isn’t anything there and she’s annoyed at Kelly for suggesting it.

Daryl is much more focused on Carol than Connie right now. Evidenced by the fact that he waved to her at the beach but didn’t bother to approach her. MUCH more focused on Carol. Which precludes a Donnie romance in my view.

But of course we also know Carol and Daryl are a mother/son relationship that will never be romantic. AK pretty much confirmed that a month or two ago in an interview where she said (and I paraphrase) “we know about the shippers, but even if it doesn’t go where they want it to, it’s still fun to have Daryl/Carol scenes in the show.” Yeah, really nothing to worry about there. So don’t.

Overall, I feel like the writers are pushing Connie and Carol equally as possible love interests. I already said this to my group, but my feeling is that they’re kind of saying, “Who will Daryl be with? Door #1: Carol? Or Door #2: Connie?” And it will actually be “hidden” door #3: Beth.

So I guess my point is that they’re teasing both so heavily, I don’t think either will happen. Yes, the shippers are gonna freak out. Nothing we can do about that. But that doesn’t mean they’re right.

Okay, I’m gonna stop there for today. More coming tomorrow. And a TON more coming over the next week. 😉

[twdmusicboxmystery]

TWD 10x01: Lines We Cross - Details

Training Day:

Okay, let’s talk details! I mentioned how during Training Day, the boat reminds me of Beth and what happened to her. It’s half-buried in the sand, which may be part of the “what is hidden” theme. 

We also saw a walker impaled on an X-shaped piece of wood floating in. It reminds me a lot of the bear Cyndie and Rachel found in S7. It represents something floating in from the ocean that’s important. (Another set up for that happening in this arc.) And we’ve always associated the X with Beth. (X Theory).

We also hear Judith singing a song with the lyrics, “15 miles on the Erie Canal.” Yeah, that’s super important. It’s part of the bridge symbolism. I looked it up and it’s from an old song called “Low Bridge.” I don’t want to go into all the details now, as that’s a post unto itself, but I’ll try and get a post about it together soon. (Seriously guys, I’m going to end up with seven or eight different posts from this ONE episode!)

Then the kids dump out their buckets and find the skin mask. Notice the star fish, Xs in the buckets (X Theory) and the colors of the buckets: red and blue.

I don’t have a whole lot more to say about the context of these details than what I’ve already said. Judith’s song, Low Bridge, may represent all the bridges we’ve seen thus far, all the characters and arcs and death fake outs. And now, we’ve arrived at the Whisper War.

Skins:

Michonne tells Daryl to tell Carol not to leave again without saying goodbye. Definitely callback to Beth hating to say goodbye. But @frangipanilove pointed out something I hadn’t even thought of. By extension, Michonne saying this tells us that Carol DID leave without saying goodbye the first time. That makes her an obvious Beth proxy. Because at some point, she left Daryl and TF without saying goodbye. To be on a BOAT. Under the STARS (all details they felt the need to have Carol let the audience know about). And now she’s returned to him. Just saying.

When Michonne’s group (on the horses) split up, she and Aaron end up on a bridge. She says she lost Rick on one, which I said the other day probably foreshadows her leaving to find him soon.

When Magna’s group shows them the camp where the skinned walker is, it keeps showing skeletons with their rib cages showing. 

That always reminds me of 5x09 because one was featured so prominently there. 

Not sure exactly how to interpret it, though. Was 5x09 a foreshadow of the Whisperers? Definitely could be. Especially with the “Silence the Whisperers” graffiti looking so much like the “Wolves Not Far” graffiti from that episode. Or it could be the opposite: that this is a callback to 5x09, an episode in which Beth was featured. Either way works for me.

Also, this camp has a lot of Bethyl callbacks. Cans strung up and used as alarms, a blue sleeping bag, etc.

Then we also have Judith telling RJ about Rick, only disguised as the “Brave Man” in a story. I want to say two things about this. First, it kind of shows that every story they tell or read has a mirror reflection in something to do with the show. So, The Wizard of Oz, The Little Prince, Crime and Punishment. These are books we’ve seen on the show and have said we ought to be reading into them. This is proof of it because Judith is telling Rick’s story disguised as a different one.

The other thing that struck me about this is that Judith actually says Rick is dead here. Sort of. RJ asks if the Brave Man lived and went to see his friends afterward. Judith says no. He died and went to heaven. We KNOW Rick isn’t dead and Michonne is going to go find him. So, there goes the argument that just because Kirkman once confirmed Beth is dead, that means she is. Nope. Not necessarily. 

I also think Michonne’s line about how there are some people you would do anything for is a foreshadow. She names Judith and RJ as the ones she’d do anything for, but then RJ asks, “And my dad?” And she says yes. So obviously, she’ll go find him. We already knew that.

Bird Wisdom:

Okay, lots of bird references in this episode, which is important given that Beth is the song bird, and all other bird references we’ve had (Phoenix, Heron, Yellow Wagtails, black and white birds, the bird in 9x05 that pulled the worm out of the walker’s ear while Daryl watched, etc.).

This was the somewhat humorous part where Eugene measured Rosita’s baby, Coco. A lot. We saw paper birds being used for Coco’s crib mobile. Not unlike Gracie’s back in S10. The suns on the blanket covering her window. The suns may be part of the ABIBEL theory. The blanket itself looks like the one we saw in Beth’s cell in 4x01.

Couple of Beth callbacks I noticed. The baby likes music. When Eugene turned it off, the baby started to cry. Rosita turned the radio back on, and the baby was happy again, lol. But definitely a pro-music reference. Maybe Coco represents Daryl crying when he loses his songbird. He’ll be happy when she returns. Okay, kind of a joke, but it works, right?

Also, Eugene tells Siddiq to warm the baby’s bottle for exactly 5 minutes and 16 seconds. 5x16 was Conquer (end of S5) where we first saw the wolves (foreshadow of the Whisperers) kill someone in a red poncho. I think this is a significant reference as the Whisper War kicks off.

Actually, my fellow theorists and I were discussing this just last night and @frangipanilove gave me some insight into it. 5x16 was the first episode where we saw the wolves in a big way. And remember that I think the wolves foreshadowed the Whisperers. When Aaron and Daryl found the Wolf trap with all the trucks, many of them said “how the harvest gets home.” TD has long thought “the harvest” represented Beth. She’s definitely connected to the “home” theory. (Remember Carl telling Judith in 6x10 about using the North Star to find your way home?) So this is probably yet another way, just like Connie returning Dog to Daryl, of saying Beth will “come home” in this arc. Probably via the Whisperers in some way.

Also, later in the episode, Daryl mentions the home theme. He says to Carol, “why don’t you come on home, now?” I think that is for Carol and part of her arc, but it might also indicate that someone else will finally come home to Daryl.

It’s also been noted that Eugene’s chart of the bay’s growth and patterns looks like Morse Code.

Lydia and Negan strike up a conversation, which is kind of interesting. I noticed that they said everyone was on yellow alert. Aside from a Star Trek reference, it’s the yellow that caught my attention for obvious reasons. It’s also important to note that Negan is picking tomatoes. His job seems to be vegetable collection, much as it was in Carl’s vision of the future. That much of what he wanted has come true. I’ll talk about the significance of this a little more in my predictions post in a day or two.

Siddiq is going through some pretty serious PTSD in the wake of the beheadings. And there’s a new doctor in town named Dante. He’s super arrogant and I found him annoying. Yet, I had to laugh that they gave him that name. Super-significant given how many times they’ve used Dante templates for the story (The Divine Comedy and The Inferno). AND he’s a doctor? Not even sure what to say about this, but I’m side-eying it hard.

Negan and FG’s talk is very significant, but it’s hard to say exactly how yet. The reason being, I don’t think we’ve actually seen the entire foreshadow yet, and it’s hard to say what it will lead to if we don’t have the full sequence.

I’m sure that just confused everyone. Let me explain. Negan says he’s afraid of people lumping him in with the Whisperers and thinking of him as the bad guy again. He also says just being “on alert” feels to him like indecision. There needs to be a show of strength so people feel secure and don’t panic. Initially, FG rejects this, as he doesn’t want to lie to people. Negan says it would be manipulation, but may ultimately keep people safe. And then we see FG taking Negan’s advice by telling them to lock the gates and double the watch. He’s giving a show of force to try and make people feel more secure.

Now, I don’t think doing either of those things is necessarily bad when they think the Whisperers might be in the area again. But in the show, it’s being billed as a manipulation. And the fact that they’re addressing this at all tells me that something is going to go wrong. It’s probably going to backfire somehow. But without knowing how, it’s hard to know exactly what this is heading toward. That’s what I mean when I say we don’t have the full sequence. It ends after Gabriel tells the people to lock the gate. We certainly don’t see it backfiring here. So I’m waiting to see what happens with this.

That said, I do think they’re setting up an interaction between Negan and the Whisperers. In the CBs, he goes over to Alpha’s camp, not because he’s defecting, but to help Rick’s group. He ends up beheading Alpha. The show rarely follows the CBs very closely and I don’t think this will happen in the show. If anything, I think Carol will be the one to kill Alpha, whenever that happens. But given that Negan is talking about his disdain for indecision and needing a decisive show of force, I think they could be setting up something where he still goes over to the Whisperer camp, as he did in the CBs. I just don’t think it will end up the same way. (Incidentally, check out THIS POST for one possibility for the scene when Negan is in the Whisperer’s camp and how it might possibly involve Beth.)

I will also say that I think Negan’s interaction with the Whisperers may lead to Beth in some way. I’ll get into the symbolism that’s telling me that, later. Just know that I think what they’re setting up for him here is important from a TD perspective. And the Details we see in this conversation support that.

FG has “seriously” reference. So we have some Sirius/return symbolism. They talk about baby birds, etc.

Sea Dogs:

Connie and Kelly are helping to haul in a net from the sea. We learn the interesting fact that Kelly is losing her hearing. I don’t know about anyone else, but I always assumed Connie was born deaf. Yet, Kelly’s hearing seems to be degenerating, so maybe Connie’s did at one time as well. This, of course, is when we have the Connie/Daryl/”You seem to have lost something” reference, which I’ve already talked about.

Before she brings Dog back to him, Daryl and Ezekiel have a funny little conversation about bird shit and guano & whether seagulls taste like chicken. I suspect this may have to do with foreshadowing Ezekiel’s death fake out arc. Funny story: I totally thought bats were included in this convo because “guano” is technically bat shit. It can be used as a term for the excrement of sea birds as well, so the convo isn’t incorrect, but I just assumed Ezekiel mentioned bats, too. But he didn’t. Still, seagulls are white and bats are black. Similarly, bird crap is white and bat guano is black. (Yes, I totally googled that, lol.) I think the writers are having a little too much fun with this.

But just as we saw black and white around Beth’s fake out (her laces at Grady before and the ties on Daryl’s legs after) I think this foreshadows Ezekiel’s coming death fake out. I also think Daryl is involved in that death fake out somehow. We see more evidence of this in Daryl and Carol’s scene together. I’ll get to that in a minute.

There is also an artificial “guano” that is made from fish. So it’s all about the ocean theme, isn’t it?

Next, we see Daryl and Carol killing walkers together and get the Claimers callback. I’ve thought a lot about why they chose to use this exact callback here. I’m seeing two possibilities.

1. The Death Fake Out Sequence. Daryl met the Claimers in S4 after he was separated from Beth (their trial separation) but before the actual death fake out happened. Carol and Ezekiel are in that same place in the sequence. Carol leaving Zeke at the end of S9 was the beginning of their trail separation. And I do think his fake out is coming soon. (Perhaps in the MSF?)

In fact, you could think of Carol and Zeke’s brief hug on the dock as a mirror of Daryl briefly finding Beth in the hallway of Grady. Then the death fake out happens. Obviously, it happened in the same scene for Beth, and Ezekiel’s didn’t, but the sequence is the same, even if the exact timing is not.

2.    The second thing I’ve thought about is The Red Machete. We saw the Claimers there, as well as the machete traveling a long distance. So this could be yet another foreshadow of an upcoming journey for Daryl and Carol. That might result in them finding Legs. I mean Beth. ;D

New Mexico:

Daryl and Carol hunt a DEER together. We know the deer represents either a death or someone who should have died and didn’t. When the deer dies (5x10 for Beth; 7x12 for Rick) the person lives. When the deer lives (4x14 for Lizzie and Mica) the person dies.

But keep in mind that the deer doesn’t HAVE to be present directly at the death fake out. Again, we saw Rick’s in 7x12 and his actually death fake out didn’t occur until S9. We didn’t see Beth’s deer until two episodes after Coda. But, on the other hand, Carl’s deer (2x01/2x02) and Lizzie and Mica’s were both present when the actual death or almost-death happened. So it can be either.

So, here’s the gist. I’m fairly certain this deer foreshadows Ezekiel’s death fake out. The deer ultimately dies, which means Ezekiel will live, but Carol will be upset, because she thinks he’s dead.

Let’s look at the symbols in this scene. First, there’s this. This looks EXACTLY like the place in Inmates. 

Why is that important (other than a general callback to Beth, I mean)? Well, in this scene from Inmates, Beth sees the disembodied shoe. That’s another sign of the death fake out. They don’t use the exact same symbols for each death fake out, but several that are similar. So, for example, Rick pulled the shoe/foot off a walker in 7x12, which was also a symbol of his coming fake out.

So even though we don’t specifically see a shoe/foot thing here with Carol, I still think it’s important that they’re calling back to that scene in Inmates. It’s to hint that this is a foreshadow of the coming fake out arc.

I also said above that I thought Daryl would be involved somehow. This is why. At first, I thought maybe Daryl would stop Carol from going somewhere or doing something and that would lead to Ezekiel’s death fake out and she would be angry with him. But I’ve revised my opinion on that. I think the deer itself represents Ezekiel. Because we have the deer being eaten by walkers. And that’s exactly what we think happened with Beth. (Not that she was actually eaten by walkers, but that TF thinks she was.)

I think it’s more likely that, as with our other three death fake out characters (Beth, Glenn, Rick) Ezekiel will become surrounded by walkers and it will look like he’s going to die. As with the deer in this scene, she’ll want to run in and get Ezekiel and keep insisting there’s still time and they can help Zeke, but Daryl will hold her back, for her own safety, saying, “Stop. It’s too late.” And of course she’ll be angry and upset, probably more with herself than him.

Notice how it’s not until after that that she and Daryl start talking about leaving on the motorcycle.

I’ll lay this all out in a less convoluted way in my Predictions post, but I think this signals that Daryl and Carol will be prominent figures in the Whisper War. Ezekiel will have his death fake out, and sometime after that they’ll leave together. There’s a specific reason I think they’ll be leaving together, and no, it’s not because they’ll just be running away together. Even though they say that here, it’s just a foreshadow, but it won’t actually go down that way.

The show actually has a precedent for doing this. I’m having a hard time coming up with a stellar example. Here’s a semi-good one: Lizzie and Mica were heavily compared to Sophia through Carol’s dialogue with Lizzie. If I’d been interpreting symbolism back then, I might have said Lizzie and Mica would die, exactly like Sophia did. Now, they did die, and they were more children Carol lost, so the parallel is there. But they also didn’t die EXACTLY like Sophia, who died from a walker bite. Mica was killed but Lizzie and Lizzie was killed by Carol. So while they DID die, much like Sophia, what led up to it was different than how it was with Sophia.

Similarly, Daryl and Carol will leave together, but not for the reasons they lay out here. More on that to come.

The other thing I find interesting here (that I haven’t talked about yet) is that when Daryl says, “New Mexico” (which, let’s face it, is a pretty random suggestion) Carol asks what’s in New Mexico. He answers, “people who weave bracelets.” 

I had to sit and think about what this meant. Carol doesn’t question it (these two don’t question one another’s random lines much, do they? ;D) but it doesn’t make a ton of sense, and he doesn’t explain what he means.

Watching it several times, I think he just means them. Since Carol wants to weave the friendship bracelet for him, if they go, they’ll be in New Mexico. They’re the people who weave bracelets. (Yet more evidence that they will go there together at some point.)

But, extrapolating from their conversation, people who weave bracelets = friends. Daryl is implying they have friends in New Mexico. Yeah, that’s totally symbolic/foreshadowing. And of course we could point to Morgan for the fulfillment of this, given Fear, but I like to think Beth and Rick are there also.

Lines We Cross:

Let’s talk about Ezekiel coughing and wheezing. I know there are theories out there about it pointing to his death. I’m not completely opposed to that theory, but I’m not completely convinced of it, either. I even think he could be sick, but ultimately won’t die. But, if he is dying, or it foreshadows his death, I don’t think it’s happening just yet. I don’t see it happening until after the Whisper War. This COULD be foreshadowing his death, though. I’ll explain more about my theory on this tomorrow when I finally get to my radiation post.

Embers:

In this section, they finish fighting the fire. Luke asks about radiation. I don’t have tons to say about this part but I’ll mention it more tomorrow.

Carol and Daryl go to where Daryl and Alpha talked last season. Daryl says, “You still want to run away together?” Carol says, “Yeah. Tomorrow.”

Daryl says he needs her to stay. He might have to punch holes in her boat.

Then he walks away and Alpha appears and looks up at Carol.

This little conversation between them is really significant. In the short term, it simply shows that she will stay and help him fight Alpha during the Whisper War. But it was the “tomorrow” that really caught my ear. First of all, it’s more foreshadow that they will leave together at some point, but not just yet. They have Alpha to deal with first.

But it’s much more than that.

I don’t know if you guys remember this, but during S8 (All Out War) we identified a theme of “tomorrow.” They kept saying things would happen tomorrow, or they’d deal with something tomorrow. Stuff like that. We came to realize that it wasn’t only literal. It also referred to some future time and it was often paired with Beth symbolism. So, we came to believe that “tomorrow” was a term for when Beth would return, sometime in the future.

In 5x16 of FTWD, Ginny says, “Goodbye Yesterday, Hello Tomorrow!” I firmly believe Morgan’s group has reached the part in the narrative where they’ll run into Beth. Of course, we won’t see anything like that until at least next season. 

Then here, Carol says they’ll run away together “tomorrow.” Again, it’s some undefined period of time in the future, but you all know I think they’ll leave together and when they do, they’ll find Beth. So it, once again, ties Beth to the “tomorrow” theme.

And of course we end with Alpha seeing Carol, which I’m sure will kick off the Whisper War. Phew! If you’re still reading this, you’re a rock star! I’ll finally get to my radiation post tomorrow and my Predictions post on Saturday. Stay tuned! 😉

[twdmusicboxmystery]

TWD S10 Trailer: Analysis

Okay let's dive into this trailer. Lots of great symbols. I’m basically going to list everything we see (because many scenes flash by so fast that people miss them without realizing it) and make some observations along the way.

The first thing you see is the ocean and water. Obviously, Beth = water, so this would make me excited one way or the other. But it also shows that some of the symbolism we saw clear back in S4 is being fulfilled now. I talked about this recently (X) but there's the picture above Hershel which shows a ship on the ocean. We been predicting things that are ocean related (shipwrecks, etc.) for a long time. That’s why we were so excited when Oceanside became a thing in S7. Nothing much has come of it yet, but it may this season. Spoilers tell us that there's going to be a ship wreck this season and a lot of stuff happening with Oceanside. The very fact that it’s the FIRST thing in the trailer is significant.

Perhaps more importantly, we see a walker impaled on some wood. I can’t tell if this walker is bobbing in the water or if he's actually walking through the surf. It could be that the camera is low and he's actually walking. Doesn’t really matter, but he's impaled on the wood piece of wood that looks like a cross (or an X). So, this is pretty much a Christ symbol walking up out of the water. That's kinda huge in terms of symbolism.

Then there’s a group of people riding horses. Nothing huge there. We could mention the Horse Theory but these aren’t black and white horses or anything.

Then we hear Alpha talking. I mentioned this in an Ask on Sunday but she says, “There's only one rule. We are always watching.” 

One reason that's important is because many of us have noticed a theme of TF being watched from afar over the seasons. I don't think it was always the Whisperers doing the watching. It might've been the helicopter people. But if you've been keeping up with my posts, you know this theme is coming together in a big way. So, if they’re reiterating the idea of someone watching TF, that's important. We also see Michelle with binoculars to reinforce the theme.

Negan talks about the skin-colored bogeyman arriving, by which he means the Whisperers.

We then see Eugene running toward a radio. I think that's important given voice we heard in 9x16 and the radio stuff we've seen in Fear this season. We see Rosita with what I'm assuming is her baby and Luke looking scared. Judith holding a walker face, obviously from the Whisperers.

Then Michonne speaks. She says, "Fear is dangerous. It can drive us apart again." While Michonne speaks, we see Siddiq looking ill and then his face is plunged into water, almost as though someone is holding him under. I don't know what that means but it could signify Siddiq’s death.

Then we get something interesting: a hooded person painting, "silence the whispers," in different places around Alexandria. No idea why they would be hooded, but it's interesting.

Then we see Lydia practicing with a quarter staff (Morgan would be so proud) and obviously she and Daryl will have a lot of scenes together. 

Then Daryl challenges Negan, saying to them have never gone toe to toe before. Maybe that will happen in the season. It would be interesting.  

Michonne and Father Gabriel peer at each other from opposite sides of the fence. Later in the trailer, we also see FG in what looks like a jail of some kind. Not sure what that portends, but the interesting thing is that he’s sort of imprisoned a lot in this trailer and, because of his one eye, he’s a walking Sirius symbol, which makes him a Beth proxy. She had a lot of imprisonment symbolism around her because of Grady. So, as with so many things here, I don’t know what it means, but I’m side-eyeing it.

Negan says, "If you don't protect what belongs to you, soon it will belong to someone else." While he says it, there are a lot of family-and-friends shots: Aaron with Gracie, Siddiq holding his and Rosita's baby, Daryl and Connie and Dog, and then horses riding into Oceanside.

Next, Father Gabriel tries to get Negan to fight. Negan says he doesn't want to do anything but pick tomatoes. That's a nod to Carl and Carl's vision of the future where Negan literally picked tomatoes. Father Gabriel insists that Aaron needs fighters and Negan can fight. Then he says my favorite line in the entire trailer, "Peanut butter, meet jelly." 

(Quick refresher: this is a Beth and Daryl symbol. X At the funeral home in Alone, Beth at peanut butter and Daryl ate jelly.) FG points to Aaron when he says peanut butter and Negan when he says jelly. How many times have we said Aaron is a proxy for Beth? Even had a lot of her dialogue in 5B. So, Aaron represents Beth, and both of them are peanut butter. Negan represents Daryl, and both of them are jelly. Very nice!

Next are lots of scenes of people killing walkers in different ways and locales. Rosita punches a punching bag. Then Carol says, "Do you ever wonder if this is all there is?” Daryl answers, 

"Sometimes I think we’re just surviving one fight to the next." During this part, we see people fighting on the beach, Daryl and Carol hugging, a lot of stuff with boats, such as Ezekiel and Jerry trying to keep walkers inside a boat.

Then Daryl says, "No more fighting. Just get on the bike and go." And it shows him and Carol on his motorcycle. Then Carol says, "Head out west." And Daryl says, "See what's left." And then more beach stuff.

Okay, let’s talk about this for a minute. First, it’s worth noting that conversations in the trailer are often spliced together in a deceiving way. These lines may be (and probably are) parts of several different conversations rather than one as we har it in the trailer.

That said, I know this worries many people and a certain ship is going nuts. But there’s no reason to worry. I actually find this very intriguing. First of all, they went out of their way to define Carol and Daryl’s relationship in this trailer, and it’s still one hundred percent platonic and mother/son.

In terms of what they’re saying, Daryl implies that sometimes he wants to leave, get on his bike and ride. But it's interesting that they say “head out west.” Because, where are Morgan and his group? They’re in Texas, which is far southwest of Virginia. And then of course there's Carol. We think she's going to get on a boat at some point and take Michonne’s comic book arc. So, if anything, I think this is a foreshadow. Nobody freak out. I don't think Daryl and Carol will run away together and abandon the rest of the group. I just think at some point, this may come into the story. But I can see Daryl heading west in some way to find Beth over even Rick.

And remember that last year, both Melissa and Norman were seen in places that suggested they were filming scenes for FTWD in Texas. Obviously, we haven't seen either of them on that show and, much like Beth’s missing scenes from S5, I think they filmed this far in advance to try and minimize spoilers. But at some point, one or both of them may end up in Texas. So again, I think this is a foreshadow, but not one that any of us should be worried about. If anything, I kinda like it.

Next, Rosita and Father Gabriel, lots of people fighting, babies. Eugene seems to be measuring what I assume is Rosita's baby. Kind of funny. No idea what's going on there. Yes Eugene, babies do grow.

Daryl hugs Lydia and Magna and Kelly have a romantic moment.

Michonne says, "Somehow, it's harder the second time around. You get used to having someone there. A partner in crime." During this voiceover, we see Judith and Luke together; Daryl and Connie at the head of a group walking through the woods, Carol, and a shot of the H coin from last season. Right after Michonne’s line, we see her kiss Ezekiel.

I talked about this on Sunday as well, but I feel like this is mostly misdirection. Think about what Michonne says here. It’s harder the second time around without the loved ones she misses. Without a partner in crime. She's either talking about Rick or possibly Carl. About how much she misses them. And then it shows her kissing Zeke as though it’s about him? It’s clearly not. So that alone tells me they’re being deceptive.

And yes, I suppose it might be some sort of rebound relationship with Ezekiel, but it’s a little too convenient in my mind. So again, I think this was just put in to get a rise out of the fans. Even if she and Ezekiel are in a relationship, I don't see it being anything long-term or very important.

Then we get into some more Whisperer stuff. Magna says, "If we get caught on their side of the border, that's it. That's war." Right then, Daryl crosses the border. 

So obviously the Whisper War is about to begin in earnest. Alpha says, "What did I tell you about crossing my border? You’ll have to be punished." Then Carol says, "Bitch has to die."

Then more shots of people running, fighting, raising weapons in quick succession. We get a quick shot of Earl fighting. He’s Tammy's husband from last season. I was happy to see him.

We also see a lot of flames. We actually see a lot of fire throughout the trailer. Much of it seems to be at Oceanside. So again, if Oceanside burns in some way, it will mean what happened with the Oceansiders at the end of S8 was a foreshadow. At the time, it seemed really random, and I think I even suggested then that because it was so random, it was probably a foreshadow something. Now we’ll probably see it’s fulfillment.

Next, Alpha has a line I can’t quite make out. Maybe someone can tell me if they can hear better than I can. She says, “This is my ??? now. You'd better run." I’ve listened to it thirty it times and can’t understand what she says right there. And yes, I obviously checked out the subtitles, but they’re translating it as “This is my that, now.” which obviously isn’t correct.

Michonne says, "It's going to get worse before it gets better, but we aren't going to get through it at all if we do not act as one."

Alpha then says, "You should fear me."

Finally, it cuts to the humorous scene with Daryl and Carol when he says that he didn't want his best friend spend the rest of her life on a boat. Carol razzes him, saying, "What are you, ten?" Then she says she could make them matching friendship bracelets. She keeps going, teasing Daryl about the comment until he says, "I got an idea. Let's just eat and not talk."

Naturally, certain shippers are pouncing all over this like it's a marriage ceremony or something. But if you think about what they're saying here, there is no more clear way to define their relationship as a friendship. Not only because she offers to make friendship bracelets for them, but because when she asks if he's ten, it's very much a throwback to Carol thinking of Daryl as little as a little boy. As her son. So this clearly defines the relationship this as a mother son relationship as well as a platonic friendship rather than romance. I thought it was a fun and humorous scene.

It also illustrates one of the major differences between Carol and Beth. Carol is utterly unsentimental. Don’t get me wrong: she can be sentimental sometimes, and she was with Ezekiel and Henry, but she's never been that way with Daryl. 

Actually, this reminds me of the scene on top of the bus in 3x01, where she said, "You want to make out?" And then they both laughed. It had that same ambience. And remember that right after that in 3×01, Daryl stared at Beth while she was singing. By contrast, Beth would've been much sweeter and more sentimental about what Daryl said. It’s not a bad thing on Carol’s part. It simply shows the difference in Daryl's relationship to Carol versus his relationship to Beth.

Finally, there’s a mini coda where Michonne holds Negan’s bat. Honestly, I’m not sure what to make of that. They've been foreshadowing something that has to do with Michonne and Negan for a while now. Last season, remember she went out and found his bat and saw a guy hanging, which was a lot like Librarian the Saviors hung over the bridge at the end of S6. I don't know if this portends something literal that Michonne and Negan will be involved in, or if they're trying to say that Michonne is becoming Negan in some way? That doesn’t seem particularly plausible to me, but as I said, just not sure what to make of this yet.

And this coda was super short and vague, which is different than past trailers. Maybe that’s because AK is showrunner now. It will be interesting to see how this coda plays out in the season.

Okay, some closing, overall thoughts. We see a few shots of Daryl and Connie together, but nothing about them suggests a romance to me. He hugs both Carol (mother) and Lydia (daughter) more than he does Connie, who he doesn't hug at all. We do see the two of them hanging out in various ways. So, I think he's developing a friendship with Connie, much like he has with Aaron or Tara or any other member team family. Honestly, that doesn't bode well for Connie.

If you're worried about Donny being a thing, consider this. At SDCC this past weekend, they announced that Lauren Ridloff (who plays Connie) is going to start filming a Marvel movie. And congrats to her. But in my mind, there's no clearer evidence that she won’t be playing a huge role in the show moving forward.

I don't know they’ll kill her off, or just take her away for a while, like they did with Maggie. But from what we know about TWD actor contracts, they’re ironclad. The actors have to be 100% loyal to the show and often have to get special permission to do other projects. So, if Lauren Ridloff is doing something as big as a Marvel film, it must be with AMC's blessing. That tells me that either her character will die, or she's just not going to play a very big role in the show moving forward, which frees her up to do other work. If someone's going to be Daryl's love interest, that's going to be a huge role in the show. So it's already looking like those of us who assured everyone Daryl and Connie would not be a thing were correct.

The only other observation I have from the trailer is that we didn't see Lauren Cohan at all. No Maggie yet. Not a particularly big deal. The commercial tends to only cover the first handful of episodes anyway, so maybe Maggie won't be back until late in 10a or even 10B.

Overall, I'm seeing a lot of Beth symbolism. No smoking guns about her appearance, but I wouldn't expect there to be. For the most part I really loved the commercial and I'm excited for S10.

[twdmusicboxmystery]

9x15: The Calm Before - Details

Okay, let's go through the pleasing nuances of this episode. Going to attempt to divide all my observations into categories. Bear with me.

***As always, spoilers abound for 9x15 in this post. Don’t read until you’ve watched! You’ve been warned.***

Whisperers = Wolves

Probably the most important thing that jumped out at me from this episode came during Daryl's conversation with Alpha, when she took him to see the big walker herd. Both of them used metaphors during that conversation that named Alpha and the Whisperers as wolves.

Alpha said the way Daryl's people lived was a shrine to a long dead world. He basically called her on her crap, saying that was just bullshit she feeds to her sheep. So, we have a reference to the sheep and the wolf metaphor. I’ll come back to that.

Then alpha more or less agreed to the way Daryl labeled her. She said her people followed her because she was the Alpha and the people trusted her leadership.

Now, many types of animals follow this dynamic, with a strong leader being in charge of the pack. In fact, the leader of any particular group, including humans, can be referred to as the alpha. But this analogy originally came from wild wolves. They have one strong leader, who generally uses violence to enforce their leadership, which is called the alpha. It's not even uncommon for the alpha of a wolf pack to be a dominant female. So, this fits the Whisperers very well.

The wolf and the sheep analogy often refers to a “wolf in sheep's clothing.” In a way, that fits the Whisperers too. They put on masks (sheep's clothing) and hide among the walkers.

Jesus's death was definitely a “wolf in sheep's clothing” situation. Most of us don’t think of the walkers as weak, innocent sheep, but most of the people still alive in TWD world have learned how to kill the walkers with relative ease. Unless they get overwhelmed with numbers, the walkers are less of a threat now. People are strong and know how to kill them. As we saw in this episode with Daryl's group, very few strong fighters can take out quite a few walkers. But when humans who are still alive and can think and improvise hide among the walkers, they become wolves in sheep's clothing.

Why is this important? I mentioned it yesterday. Because of Up the Wolves, which played at the end of Still. The chorus says, "There's gonna be a party when the wolf comes home."

So, this is another reinforcement of what we've said all along: Beth’s arc is tied up with the with the Whisperers (symbolic wolves).

Anyone who’s followed me long knows that, for a long time, I wondered if they wouldn't do the Whisperers at all, but would simply bring back the wolves and put them in the Whisperers role. Obviously, that hasn't been the case. My group has also wondered if perhaps the wolves are part of the Whisperers and simply broke off from them. That could still be the case, and I still sincerely hope we see the wolves again. They had such potential to be great villains and I felt like we didn't see enough of them or learn enough about them.

All that said, I'm officially leaning toward the wolves being a symbolic foreshadow of the Whisperers. That's why we saw lots of Beth symbolism around the wolves. It foreshadowed that she would return with the symbolic wolves (the Whisperers). So, when we heard Alpha and Daryl referring to the Whisperers as wolves, we might have had a few mini-meltdowns in my group. 😉

It's just a confirmation of stuff we’ve believed since Beth first disappeared in S5: that she’ll return with the wolves.

Another great point made in my group made is that another line from Up the Wolves talks about, “we’re going to commandeer the local airwaves.” Meanwhile, we have Eugene and Rosita trying to set up a radio that will do just that. It feels like the writers are taking lines from the song and making them come to life in the show. It makes me very hopeful because that song ends with the wolf coming home and everyone having a party or reunion.

TD/Grady Parallels:

During the fair, we saw lots of water symbols. Water barrels, Eugene’s dunking booth, etc. Henry changed back into his compass shirt, and the Highwaymen donated mannequins so Enid could do her CPR booth. (The mannequins remind us of the Rich Bitch mannequin/walker in Still.)

There is also constantly music playing at the fair. Even before we saw Luke and Alden singing, there was constantly people singing in the background and playing guitar music. There are also candied apples (Apple theory).

Lots of interesting dialogue as well. This is part of the tragedy of Henry, but he asked Carol when she was leaving and she said, "I won't leave without saying goodbye." Obviously a call back to Beth saying she hated goodbyes and that she was glad she didn't get to say goodbye. But of course Beth didn’t get to say goodbye to anyone, and neither did those who died and were piked, so there’s a parallel there.

Luke and Alden:

While we’ll always relate anything musical to Beth, I thought it was interesting that Luke played the guitar, which is the same instrument she played in 5x09. I also like that, while trying to convince Alden to sing with him, Luke kept saying of Enid, "Sing for her!" It just reminded me of blessing for Daryl in her own.

Luke said he didn't want a mid-tempo ballad. He wanted something more upbeat. That would give people hope. Luke and Eldon collectively represent Beth. It seems to me that a mid-tempo ballad (which Alden wants) is more like the kind of music Beth likes. Yet Luke says people need hope. A very Beth-ish thing to say. So they represent her collectively.

Connie Stuff:

Connie and Kelly’s conversation struck many of us as something that could have been said between Maggie and Beth. Kelly lamented that Connie left without saying goodbye. Check out this dialogue. "You left without saying goodbye… Any goodbye could be the last…What if you die?" Again, that could practically have been said between Maggie and Beth, and Beth and Maggie really didn't get a goodbye. Between this and Henry/Carol’s convo, there was definitely a “getting to say goodbye” theme going on in this episode, and that traces directly back to Beth.

At the end, Kelly says, “It’s okay. I get it.” Two very iconic Beth lines from Grady.

On a more plot-related note, it sounds like Connie might've lost a baby at some point. And this finally made it clear why she went with Daryl to begin with. She couldn't stand that the Whisperers were going to let that baby die. Obviously, she had a very personal connection to that issue, perhaps because she lost a baby herself. She told Kelly all about feelings that she hasn't dealt with yet. On the one hand, this is obviously a Connie thing. It tells us her motivations and also shows why she still alive. Many people predicted her death this season, but obviously she's got more story to tell.

Because she’s had some Beth parallels, we might also connect this to Beth and the Child/Baby symbolism.

Daryl leaves Dog with Connie. I know a lot of the shippers are making a big deal out of this, but the biggest thing I see here are Beth parallels.

First of all, there was really no reason for Daryl to leave dog behind. He's never not taken Dog with him before and he didn't give a specific reason for it. I'm kind of thinking this was a convenience thing for the story. If Dog had been with them when the walkers attacked, one of two things would've happened. Either Dog would've died because there were too many walkers and he would been bitten, or, had he lived, he would've talked attacked Beta and the Whisperers and might have helped TF escape. So, in terms of the story, having Dog there would have been a problem. They had to invent reason for Daryl to leave him behind.

But we’re also seeing strong symbolism here. They very specifically emphasized that, when Daryl was a prisoner a the Sanctuary, they only fed him dog food. We've seen cans of dog food many times. Here, he specifically asked Connie to feed the dog, so this is part of the dog food theme.

The thing is, we can relate this specifically back to Beth in Alone. Daryl wanted to bring the one-eyed dog into the funeral home so they could feed him. He specifically tried to get the dog to come in and eat. That’s when the walkers busted in and Beth disappeared. So again, feeding the dog is something we can relate directly back to Beth. It's yet another Beth/Connie parallel.

When Daryl's group is captured, shows up, shocking Daryl, who doesn't didn't realize until now the Beta had survived. He says that all Daryl had to do was give him Lydia and no one else has had to die. He then says, "But that deal is done." That is EXACTLY what Rick said to Dawn at Grady. "The deal is done." Beta didn't do the head tilt, but whatcha gonna do?

Rosita and Eugene worked on the radio. I won't say too much about this except that it's part of the Communication Theme and as I said the other day, everything around the radio smacks of Sirius/Dogstar symbolism. And Eugene specifically said he was looking for “ham” radio parts.

When Carol, Father Gabriel, and Rachel were all talking, Tara mentioned training new fighters and specifically training facilities. Rachel offered the beach. I'm not sure what's gonna come out of this, but it made me think of Abraham's line. "From Alpha to Omega, battlefield to beach.”

Alpha meets Ezekiel. She says she looks forward to meeting Carol, so obviously they are setting up an Alpha vs. Carol thing. It also stood out to us that Alpha mentioned it being “sweater weather” soon. This is something I haven't really thought about too much before, guys.

Sweater weather made us think of Beth’s sweater. My group tried to relate it to her through that. I think the parallels deeper here. We don't see cold weather very often on TWD. In a few seasons, we’ve seen TF start wearing long sleeves and jackets more, but it doesn't usually go too far beyond that. I was thinking that maybe that's very purposeful.

We definitely saw " sweater weather" in S4. In Still, Beth and Daryl wore T-shirts and sweated a lot. It was obviously very hot outside. It was obvious there was a few weeks’ time jump before Alone, because Beth was suddenly wearing her signature sweater and Daryl had a jean jacket on. But it occurs to me that, while we HAVE seen the weather cool slightly in other seasons, it hasn’t been every season, it hasn’t always been logical, and I think it’s almost always synonymous with Beth symbolism.

For example, Daryl and Aaron wore cool-weather jackets at the end of S5. That's when they came across the wolves and saw the blonde girl tied to the tree. S6 started only days after S5, but we saw no cold weather in S6. From there, we have the infamously slow-moving seasons. From S6 to the end of S8 only a few months passed, and we never saw any cold weather.

Now, Alpha mentions sweater weather again and of course are going to see snow in the next episode. I’m thinking this might be very intentional. Like maybe they were never going to show bad weather on the show until Beth came back. If so, mentioning sweater weather and that winter is coming soon could  almost be another way of saying Beth is about to arrive.

Henry goes to fix the water pipe again and that's when he disappears. Obviously, he's had a lot of Beth parallels this season and it occurred to me that he was trying to fix a water problem when he disappeared, and then died. (Beth equals water.)

Then there was the movie shown at the Kingdom. In it, we watch a duck vs. a fox. That's very important because @frangipanilove has found evidence that the fox is part of the Sirius/Dog Star symbolism. There was even a part where the duck pulled a mask off the fox.

Obviously another analogy for the Whisperers. They wear masks and so, kind of like the “wolf in sheep’s clothing” analogy, it's about them hiding behind the masks. We also saw this theme when Daryl said something similar to Michonne last episode about people wearing hatred like a mask.

More than all that, if this is part of the Sirius symbolism, it may point to the returning dog star character (Beth) wearing a mask too. In other words, she might be hidden in general, or she might be one of the Whisperers. Fascinating stuff. @frangipanilove is working on a whole post about all of this. Coming soon. 

Now, at first we thought the thing in the cartoon was a wolf, not a fox, and it was pointed out that the wolf/fox came home. (Again, “there’s gonna be a party when the wolf comes home,” even if it’s a fox instead.)

Also remember that in Still, Daryl’s story about Merle and the tweaker included a cartoon about a talking dog. Now Ezekiel is specifically showing a cartoon that could fit that mold.

Alpha tells Daryl's group, that Lydia is weak and never lived up to expectations. When it flashes back to Alpha and Lydia's face-off, we saw parallels to Dawn and Beth at Grady. Not only does Lydia stand up to Alpha, much as Beth did to Dawn, but Alpha keeps telling Lydia she's weak. At one point, Lydia even holds up her arm to show off her scars, kind of like Dawn grabbing Beth's arm and looking at the suicide scar on her wrist.

Alpha made Beta leave when she cried. That's a direct callback to Beth and Daryl. It’s sort of a parallel to Beth saying “I don't cry anymore,” but Beth also didn't mind if Daryl saw her cry. In this case, Alpha makes Beta leave because she's crying and doesn't want to appear weak in front of him. Then she kills the guy who was saw her cry. Yeah, never walk up on Alpha when she’s crying.

I noticed the guy she killed was holding a dead blackbird. Kind of interesting. We saw white doves (usually a symbol of peace) released at the fair. So the black bird just before a brutal death contrasts to that. It’s also part of the black/white symbolism, which we’ve seen a lot around Beth and Daryl. It’s also interesting to note that black and white birds are a big part of the new opening credits sequence for this arc.

Another piece of foreshadowing I noticed was when Ezekiel said, "Eat, drink, trade, and be merry." I thought it was kind of an odd thing to say. The reason being that it's a line from the Bible but it's actually a very negative line. It’s about people being carefree and not thinking they’ll have to deal with the consequences of frivolous living. The entire line says, “Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die…” And basically they think everything will be fine no matter what, but it won’t. So, it doesn't seem like a particularly appropriate line at a fair that’s about being positive and getting people to come together.

Then it occurred to me that it's something of a foreshadow. It literally happened in this episode. Everyone ate, drank and was happy at the fair. Then people died. ☹

Did you notice the sunrise in this episode? Ezekiel called the fair, "A Fair of New Beginnings." The new beginnings was a hint of the new arc and then when Alpha took Daryl to see the walker horde, the sun was coming up. So, we’re moving into a new sub-arc.

One thing I was wrong about: I really didn't think Henry would make it back for the fair. The way spoilers originally reported events, it sounded like Henry would be killed on his way to the fair, so I assume he wouldn't make it. But he did, and that was a good thing. It was good that he got see Carol again one more time. It was good that was Michonne and Tara made up before tragedy struck. Naturally, all the reunions had to happen to make the tragedy of it more potent.

Hilde:

Let's talk about Hilde for a minute. There were a lot of things that we could parallel between her and Beth. She’s the one who makes the H coins, which have a parallel to Beth’s spoon. There's the fact that she's blonde. She wears a green dress with pink flowers on it (Pink Theory). All symbols of Beth. Having Alpha put them on just lends more credence, in my mind, to Alpha being a foil to Beth.

Another thing that stuck out to me was that Alpha scalped her *shudders*. If you watch as the camera pans away, Alpha makes a cut on her forehead and then we don't see the rest of the scalping. It reminded me of the walker in the movie theater in episode 9x11. I said that was a parallel to Beth because Beth had a head injury and the cut was made in forehead (where Beth was shot). I still think that, and I think Hilde’s death here is a parallel to with Beth’s too, but the move theater walker was also a foreshadow of this.

We also heard Alpha sing the Lydia song here again. It’s kind of amazing how much Alpha sings, given the only other person who sang a lot. Again, Alpha = Foil of Beth.

Siddiq:

There's been a lot of talk about whether Siddiq is a traitor of some kind, who gave Alpha information about the communities. We don't really know for certain yet, but on TTD, they did seem to tell us that was not the case. I’m 50/50 on this right now. I sincerely hope Siddiq isn’t a traitor and I don't want him to be, but I thought something was going on with him in this episode. And it will may not be a plot thing. It really might be more of a symbolic thing.

As soon as I heard people talking about Siddiq maybe being a traitor, I actually thought that could work out well for one of my theories. Back in S8 when Carl died, I talked about how I thought something about Siddiq would lead to Beth. The reason is because we saw so much Beth symbolism (like the Phoenix) around Carl’s death. I think they were trying to say that something about Carl's death would lead to the Phoenix (Beth) rising. We haven't seen that yet because Beth hasn't returned. But I still think something about Siddiq will lead to her. That would mean Carl bringing Siddiq into the community, and dying because of it, would lead to Beth. Kind of like one sheriff dying for another.

I still think that's true and I thought if Siddiq betrayed TF in some way, that might be a clue to how this would play out. Which is not to say that Siddiq HAS to be a traitor for it to play out that way. I was just eyeing him suspiciously in this episode. He obviously has a significant role in this episode, and where Alpha is concerned in general, so I’ll be keeping a close eye on him moving forward.

There’s also the fact that Siddiq was tied to a tree. Granted, it doesn’t look quite the same as the blond walker tied to the tree in 5x15, mostly because he was sitting, but we know the Whisperers do this, so it’s still a parallel to that blond walker. Another way to associate Beth with Siddiq. Just kinda interesting.

I also wrote in my notes that the scene where Ozzie takes Daryl’s group to Hilde’s wagon reminded me of when Daryl and Aaron came upon the wolves’ destruction and the blond walker in 5x15. The reason being, Ozzie said something to the effect of, “the dead didn’t do this; the living did.” 

In this case, the Whisperers. But Daryl and Aaron said much the same thing back in 5x15 about the wolves. The reason I mention it is that Daryl and Aaron said that and then came upon the blond woman tied to the tree right after that. Here, Ozzy says the same thing and, though it doesn’t happen right away, Daryl’s group eventually finds Siddiq tied to a tree. Just saying.

Another evidence that something’s up with Siddiq, at least symbolically? Ezekiel’s speech at the beginning of the fair/episode was all about honoring Rick, Carl, and Jesus. (In other words, two sheriffs and the Christ figure?) And the episode where Carl found Siddiq and brought him into the community was called Honor. See what I mean? I'm not sure exactly how or what it means yet, but somethings’ up.

Questions:

Rachel seems to be leading Oceanside, and we still don’t know what happened to Cindy. Yup, the Rachel who signed the charter for Oceanside is little homicidal Rachel that kept trying to shoot Tara in S7 when she first discovered Oceanside. And remember Sydney Park is now on a different show. So I really don’t think Cyndie is alive anymore, but they haven’t told us why or what happened to her. But Oceanside does seem to be alive and well and thriving under Rachel.

I also questioned why, in terms of the writing and story, Yumiko went with Daryl's group. She didn't serve much purpose except to help them fight walkers and look vaguely horrified most of the time. So, I'm not sure why they had her go with them. It could just as easily have been just Daryl, Michonne and Carol who were captured and then found Siddiq and the pikes together. I'm sure there's a reason Yumiko being there, but we don't know what it is yet. Could be symbolic or could be that this affects her moving forward in some way

Things TD was right about:

I'll update the official post about this soon. For now, we can officially say that Ezekiel did not get his comic book death. Yes, it's possible he could still die during Whisperer war, but you all know I think he’ll get a death fake out. S, he may "die," but not for real.

Guys, I've been saying Ezekiel won’t get his CB death since S7. It was partly gut feeling but mostly because of precedent the show has set. Other than Glenn, not a single character on the show has gotten their exact CB death, and specific reasons were stated for why they kept Glenn’s the same. None of them applied to Zeke. Plus, if you look at symbolism around him and Carol, it’s obvious that there’s more story yet to play out for them. So again, TD was right about this, and it’s not wishful thinking or a wild guess we just so happened to be right about. It shows that generally do read the symbolism correctly and that’s why we’re correct about stuff. And then there’s Beth…

Enid and Alden: I didn’t by any means predict Enid’s death—I was surprised to find out she’d be one of the pike victims when I read spoilers—but I did sort of predict this in a round about way that even I didn’t realize would happen.

When we found out Enid and Alden were an item, I had lots of people asking me about the Entwined Fingers Hand-hold Theme. The reason being that Enid and Carl did the entwined fingers hand hold, which showed they were soulmates, so I had a lot of people asking what Enid’s relationship with Alden meant for that theory. In truth, I didn’t know for sure until things played out further, and told everyone as much. I offered a few weak theories, such as that maybe the handhold was for Carl rather than Enid. Like, she was his only love (because he died so young) but maybe he wouldn’t be hers. If that had turned out to be the case, it would have sucked because it would have weakened the entire theory, and sort of leaned toward Daryl possibly getting a new love interest at some point.

The other option I offered was that, more likely, Enid and Alden’s relationship wouldn’t be long term. Either they would break up or—more likely as this is TWD—one of them would die. And what do you know? Like I said, I didn’t at all predict Enid’s death. Honestly, my money would have been on Alden being the on to go. But they really emphasized in this episode that Enid and Alden were still a new and developing thing. (This was apparently the first time she’d called him her boyfriend) so, tragic as it was, they weren’t in love, they weren’t soulmates, and they certainly never did the entwined handhold that we saw. So the theory stands.

In terms of foreshadowing, the two of them being involved in the Grady-like prisoner exchange was probably meant to foreshadow one of their deaths. We can compare them to Bethyl because it was the man (Daryl/Alden) that lost the woman (Enid/Beth).

I also think there could be something to the fact that the one who sings (Alden) is the one who lived, while Enid died. (☹)

Ozzy’s Death:

Most of us are a little mystified about why Ozzie died. It’s just surprising that they introduced him and then killed him so quickly. I don't think it changes anything I’ve said about him, even though I thought he would play a bigger role in bringing Beth back. The symbolism still stands.

Watching a second time, I noticed when Siddiq told the story about what happened in the barn, he says Ozzie found and tried to rescue them. I’m not even sure exactly where I'm going with this, but it's kind of interesting that these guys, who we saw a lot of Beth symbolism around, attempted to to rescue everyone and were killed in the attempt. It just feels like a slightly skewed call back to Daryl trying to rescue Beth and her being killed in the attempt.

Random and Tragic Observations:

Henry had a crush on Enid at the beginning of the season, and, while he ended up cultivating a relationship with Lydia instead of her, he and Enid died together. Maybe in some way, his crush on Enid foreshadowed this?

Siddiq told the crowd that the victims died as heroes. He said, “That's the story I want us all to remember." I thought that could be the theme for the entire series. The writers are telling us that this is the main point. We lose characters often and it sucks. The thing to remember is that they died heroes, fighting for and defending one another.

Of course, Carol finding Henry was a total replay of Sophia. Even Norman confirmed that on TTD.

And finally, Lydia visited the pikes and left her H necklace there as a memorial to Henry. This was an obvious call back to Alone. Not only because of Lydia/Beth parallels and H necklace/spoon parallels, but putting it at the base of the stake felt a lot like Daryl putting yellow flowers on the “Beloved Father” grave. Then he and Lydia walked off together, much like Beth and Daryl left the graveyard together.

And this is actually more North Star stuff. Hilde said the H stood for “hope” and “home” among other things. So Lydia put a symbol for hope on Henry’s grave (who had insane parallels with Beth this season) and it just happened to be at the northern border (North Star) which Carl told Judith in S6 was how one finds their way home. Exciting stuff. The North Star/Sirius symbolism is directly tied to Beth’s return.

Okay, I think it's all I have to say for today. I’ll do predictions tomorrow. I'll talk more about what was said on TTD (because it's huge) and also what we’ve already seen from 9x16. If you haven't yet, get on the app or YouTube and watch the opening minutes of 9x16 and the sneak peaks. I’ll be referencing them. I’m seeing something awesome that makes me feel very hopeful that we could see Beth next episode. Stay tuned.

[twdmusicboxmystery]

Mailbag Fan Question and Oh the Possibilities!

Okay, this came out the week before the finale aired but I never got around to posting about it. There’s the obvious suspicious stuff, which I’ll point out, but doing research on the details, I also found some interesting connections.

So part of the Mailbag Fan Question post for the finale was, “What happened to the remaining hospital staff at Grady Memorial?”

Let's appreciate the fact that I don't think this came from a TD-er. It probably came from someone in the GA, which means we’re not the only ones who’ve noticed the oddity of Grady being left standing and what to know what’s up.

Why include this in the fan mailbag right before the finale? Obviously we didn’t see Grady in the finale or anything about it. So why put this here? They get thousands of fan questions and generally only include the ones that are asked the most or are super relevant to the upcoming episode. And of course thy don’t reveal any spoilers. So again, why have this question?

You could argue it’s to remind us of Grady's unfinished story line. Between this and all the suspicious tweets the Grady actors have written over the years, it’s obvious Grady will become relevant again at some point. That alone doesn’t prove we’re right about Beth being alive, but let’s be real. She was the ONLY character that had a meaningful arc at Grady. The ONLY one privy to all the things going on there or who learned anything meaningful from it. If Grady is going to become relevant again, then Beth is going to become relevant again.

But again, why give us a Grady Update now? Again, the actors have tweeted things out over all the seasons, so why is AMC choosing this moment, this finale to post this?

Obviously we can’t say for sure, but I think it’s just more proof of how close she is. They post this before a finale that had Alone parallels, a blond walker who got an icicle in the eye, Christmas themes, and Daryl staring at Beth’s picture. Not at all what I would call a coincidence. I’m thinking more and more that we’ll see her early in S10 (kinda like we saw Morgan early in S5). I think all of this points to that. While we may have a long hiatus ahead of us, I think we’ll see Beth in the next handful of episodes which, in the scope of the show, really isn’t far away at all.

Now let’s look at the answers. First, let me credit those in my group who hashed all this out for us. They include @frangipanilove, @bethgreeneprevails, @thegloriouscollectorlady, and @wdway. This is a collection of their thoughts and mine.

First of all, it says that the Grady people perform an apocalyptic musical. Do you really think “music” is a coincidence? Even putting Beth aside, the last episode the Grady staff were in is called Coda, which is a musical term. But we can't really put aside Beth because she was the songbird on the show. The only one who literally sang.

They also say the musical is called Mammalton. I would've known that reference but luckily other people in my group did. It's a play on the show, Hamilton which is a famous off-Broadway musical. More on that in a minute.

Then it says Mammalton is the story of mammals taking over and forming their own democracy following the collapse of society. That strikes me as pretty much exactly what was happening at Grady. Society collapsed and this group of people was trying to create a new society on all their own. Of course, it was extremely flawed and not much of a democracy, but still. So perhaps this is a way of saying that Grady is still standing, and that maybe it created a better society after TF family left. Hmm. Wonder who could be leading that.

I also had the thought that it might be a play on the word, Slabtown. Even though Mammalton is a play on the name, Hamilton, it sounds a little like “Mammaltown.” In a way, that might give some insight in the title, Slabtown. If the “town” part simply represents a particular society, then Slabtown signified that this society bread only death, rather than hope, and was a subtle clue to Beth’s fate in 5x08.

Then there's the songs that are mentioned. "Stay Alive," "The Dead Commandments," and "The Gory of Tonight (reprise)." These, too, are plays on titles of songs from the musical Hamilton. The songs from the play are called, “Stay Alive,” “The Ten Duel Commandments,” and “The Story of Tonight.” 

Come on now. Stay Alive? Can we get any more obvious than that? The Dead Commandments. Obviously, it's a biblical reference to the Ten Commandments, but remember that we saw pictures of baby Moses and the burning bush on Father Gabriel's wall in Strangers. You know, right before we saw Beth on the Grady story line?

And it strikes me as a progression. Moses was separated from his true people and family as a baby. The same thing happened to Beth back in S5. She became separated from TF. Now we have reference to the Ten Commandments. Moses didn’t bring the Ten Commandments to his people until years later (*ahem* time jump *ahem*) after he’d reunited with his real family. So seeing Baby Moses pictures in 5x02 foreshadowed Beth’s separation from TF, and Ten Commandments referenced before the finale may foreshadow…her return.

The Story of Tonight has less obvious ties to TD, but the “gory” part is obviously a general TWD theme. I did look into what the song is about and it’s about revolution and fighting for what you believe in, even when it’s not by far the easiest thing to do. So it works well with TWD.

So this “Grady Update” would be super suspicious just with what I’ve said so far, right? But naturally, there’s more. As I looked into the musical Hamilton, something else occurred to me. Another connection between this and something else AMC put out this season.

They’ve used two real paintings as part of their promotion this season. There’s this Thanksgiving picture, and then this Crossing of the Delaware picture. In both cases, they superimposed TWD characters onto the faces in the picture. I’m going to reference the Crossing the Delaware picture today. 

Our group has discussed it back and forth quite a bit and tried to read TD stuff into it. We’ve been moderately successful. But reading through the plot of Hamilton, the musical, I made a huge connection.  

So, a little background for those who aren’t familiar. This painting depicts a famous event during the American Revolution, when George Washington crossed the Delaware River (an extremely dangerous crossing) on Christmas Eve and surprised his enemies at dawn. It was a major victory because they took the enemy's camp while the enemy were still asleep and half drunk on Christmas wine and were able to completely overtake the camp without a single loss of American life. I think a few of the enemy were killed, but not many. It's a very famous story.

In my group, we found this interesting anyway because of the Christmas references here, the river (water) and of course the founding fathers suggest DC. And of course in the finale, TF did cross a river, albeit a frozen one.

So what does this have to do with this mailbag fan question?

Well, the plot of the musical Hamilton is basically about Alexander Hamilton. It's a play that tells the story of his life through true historical events and the eyes of other founding fathers, who are all part of the play. I connected it to the painting of George Washington, because during the famous Crossing of the Delaware, Alexander Hamilton was Washington's aid-de-camp, which means he was Washington’s right-hand man.

So this reference to the musical Hamilton and the picture of George Washington crossing the Delaware on Christmas Eve are connected.

Reading through the plot of Hamilton in more detail, there’s a few suspicious things. Rick’s face is the one on George Washington’s in the picture, right? Well, if Hamilton was Washington’s right hand man, who does Hamilton represent in this analogy? You’d think it would be Daryl because Daryl has always been Rick’s right hand guy. In short, it’s not. Hamilton is Beth. Let me explain why.

1. Hamilton isn’t actually present in the famous painting. Most of the others in the boat with Washington don’t represent real historical figures. They’re more like composites of people involved in the American Revolution in some way. Many of them have varied cultural clothing to represent different countries and factions who took part. So Hamilton, though he was there historically, is not actually represented in this famous painting. (Beth is not there with TF right now.) Plus, Daryl’s face is on another character in the boat, (the one near the front) which specifically is NOT Hamilton, so Daryl can’t be Hamilton.

2. Reading through the synopsis of the play, there’s a whole section about a man named Charles Lee who is granted a command by George Washington, but turns out to be a terrible field commander. After Washington fires him, Lee goes on a tirade against Washington, claiming that he’s an unfit leader. Hamilton wants to challenge this man on Washington's behalf, but things get complicated. I was just thinking that sounds an awful lot like what happened at Grady with Dawn and Capt. Hansen. Unfit leaders, challenges, duels? Major parallels there.

3. When Hamilton dies near the end of the play, he’s shot in a duel. He ends up in musket duel with someone he truly doesn’t want to kill. So when they turn and fire at one another, he misses on purpose (kinda like Beth stabbing Dawn when she must have know that wouldn’t kill her) and is in turn shot himself (just like Beth.) Interestingly, the final musical number in the play is called, “Who lives, who dies, Who Tells Your Story.”

In short, I think it’s safe to say that Beth = Hamilton in this scenario, which makes even more sense because Hamilton was used to answer a question about Grady. If the musical is about Hamilton’s lives and battles, then applied to Grady, it pretty much has to mean Hamilton = Beth.

So the short of this is that both these things—the Grady Update and the Crossing of the Delaware picture—point to Beth’s imminent return.

The long of it is that this has me spinning in tons of directions. It’s all just conjecture and head canons and predictions I have absolutely no way of verifying right now, but I can’t help myself. Given that Hamilton is Washington’s right hand man (Rick in the picture) and that I’ve always compared the Dawn/Hanson dynamic to a Beth/Rick dynamic (details HERE) and the fact that Grady was practically part of Rick’s hallucination right before he disappeared… 

And then there’s THIS POST I made a million years ago about how this shot from Coda shows that Rick, Daryl and Beth will be on similar leadership levels…

I’m just thinking more and more that it makes sense that Rick and Beth will end up in the same place. That would make all their parallels make perfect sense. And while I 100% think she’ll be a leader in her own right, wouldn’t it be super cool if she met up with Rick and sort of stepped into Daryl’s shoes as Rick’s right hand person for a while? That would REALLY put her and Daryl on the same level, wouldn’t it?

Not to mention…Legs? Beth? Red Machete? Rick?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Okay, okay. Again, this is all conjecture and my imagination is running away with me. Just wanted to point all this out because I think they’ve give us some heavy foreshadowing here and even if I’m not interpreting it entirely correctly, it’s super-important for S10. Thoughts?

[twdmusicboxmystery]

9x10: Omega - Details

Okay, let's talk details. I’ll put these in three major groups: Lydia-related details, a few Carol details, and general/Alpha details. Some of these will touch on the things I said in my First Thoughts post yesterday, but with little more detail.

***Once again, spoilers abound for episode 9x10. Don’t read until you’ve watched! You’ve been warned!***

Lydia details:

My group has talked a lot about the strangeness of Lydia's ear condition. In 9x06, Daryl watched a bluebird/Songbird pull a worm out of a walker's ear. It then fed the worm to its babies. My theory with the worm is that it represents something negative that's being taken out of someone. Like negativity or negative belief of some kind. Now, in this episode, we saw both Lydia and Henry eat worms, and we also saw that she had some sort of pain or medical condition associated with her ear. Could be something as simple as an ear infection that’s gone untreated.

In truth, we’re not sure exactly how all of the stuff fits together, but here are a few ideas we’ve brainstormed. 

1) Naturally we’re relating it to Daryl eating the warm in 5x10 and Beth in general. 

2) Several of my fellow theorists have suggested it shows Daryl becoming a father figure and protector to Lydia. 

3) I would go so far as to say that, if the worm represents something negative, and it's being taken out of the year, then maybe it represents him showing Lydia how she's been thinking wrongly about things. About how her mother is crazy and abusive, and revealing the lies Lydia has believed all these years.

Even those I’m not completely satisfied with. We’re fairly certain the walker on the tree in 9x06 represented Daryl himself. So, it feels a little backwards as of right now. We’ll definitely be keeping an eye on this as the arc progresses.

Daryl offered Lydia water several times. First of all, Beth equals water. So there’s that. Another parallel to Beth. And what did Daryl use to give her water? A Big Dipper. Or Little Dipper. We can relate that to the North Star and Sirius/Dog star symbolism. I know @frangipanilove is working on a new post about this. The symbols are definitely important.

Some interesting dialogue.

At one point, Daryl says to Lydia, "You don't know shit about me." That really jumped out at me because it's exactly what Noah said to Beth at Grady. So, we’ve got some Grady stuff going on here.

Lydia also use phrases like "she's a good person," or, "they were good people." Obviously, that dialogue is the same Beth used.

Lydia was convinced no one was coming for her. This parallels her strongly with Beth at Grady. Beth specifically said to Dawn, "No one’s coming." 

She wasn't really talking about herself being rescued so much as about Dawn's misguided belief that the army or FEMA would show up to rescue them. Beth meant the world had pretty much ended and they were on their own. 

But even so. We have Dawn's misguided belief and Beth telling her that no one is coming. Then we have Lydia, whose also has misguided beliefs, and she tells Daryl that no one's coming for her. 

In both cases, this person's family turned up at the gates, and a prisoner exchange took place. At Grady, obviously Rick and Daryl showed up to collect Beth and Carol and there was the prisoner exchange that went very badly. Here, Alpha and the Whisperers, Lydia’s family, showed up to get her. We haven't seen it yet, but it's obvious that a prisoner exchange is about to take place. I'm actually very excited to see how this plays out because I'm anticipating a lot of Grady parallels.

It's also important to notice that things are kind of opposite from what they were at Grady. As I said yesterday, Lydia is actually being heavily paralleled Daryl. So in S5, Beth was the one who was the prisoner and TF came to get her. Here in S9, the Daryl figure (Lydia) is the one who was imprisoned and her family, who we know are villains, have come to her. I'm thinking the prisoner exchange will go well, specifically because the Grady didn't. But that remains to be seen.

After re-watching, I was also very intrigued by the baby references. When Henry got Lydia out of her cell, she reached for a hammer and was going to hit him with it and run. She didn’t know Daryl stood a few feet away watching.

When the woman from Hilltop came outside with her crying baby, it really freaked Lydia out. It made her want to go back into the cell. 

Not sure what that means, but now we have the Whisperers at the gates and one of them has a baby. I've read spoilers about what will happen with this, and I won't go into them here, but it's obvious the Whisperers aren’t big on babies.

As I've mentioned before, in the CBs there’s a major rape culture among the Whisperers. And we know Alpha abuses Lydia to keep her in line. This is complete conjecture on my part, but I'm sort of wondering if maybe at some point, Lydia got pregnant and had a baby, but Alpha forced her to give it up. That might explain why she had such a visceral reaction to hearing the baby cry. It also might play into the other worm/Songbird/babies in the nest symbolism going on in 9x06. Again, we’ll just have to wait and see.

With stuff like this, I immediately start developing head canons about it. Like maybe Lydia did something to try and save her baby, and Beth ended up with it. Maybe Beth will show up with Lydia’s baby, which would explain the child/baby symbolism around her. I even wondered if Gracie could be Lydia’s baby, but I don’t think the timeline works. Based on her age, Lydia would have only been ten when Gracie was born, so probably not. 

Daryl brought in the branch of a birch tree when he confronted Lydia about her abuse. This is super important because we’ve long thought the trees in the plate glass picture in FG’s church, which Sasha shot in 5x16, were birch trees. We couldn’t be sure, but they look like they were. Birch tree symbolism points heavily to Beth, and the fact that that picture was shot with the bullet suggests a retelling of Beth being shot at Grady. Don't forget, that's the scene where FG says all kinds of things about them sacrificing their own that makes absolutely no sense. Again other theorists are working on metas about the birch tree, so I won't go into it further except to say we’re glad they specifically named it as a birch tree because it validates a lot of our earlier theories.

As a child, Lydia had a stuffed rabbit. They said in TTD it was a nod to Judith's rabbit from Carl’s vision of the future. That’s significant because it could show that this war with the Whisperers will in some way lead to Carl’s vision of the future. I think, especially in terms of Negan, that's probably true. But we’ve also seen rabbit symbolism around Beth before. There are pictures of rabbits in 4B, and then there were the rabbits Lizzie killed.

I started to wonder if maybe we should look for some Lizzie/Lydia or perhaps Lizzie/Alpha parallels. I honestly haven't thought about that too much, but Lydia is pretty messed up, and Lizzie was he was pretty messed up. Lizzie killed a bunch of rabbits and Lydia had a stuffed rabbit. Carol mothered Lizzie, and we’re starting to think this whole Lydia arc is going to end up having to do with Carol. I get to that in a minute. So just some food for thought.

In terms of eating worms, we’ve talked about a few different ways to interpret it. @wdway suggested maybe we could parallel it to Beth and Daryl eating snake together. 

Yes, we know they’re two different species and even symbolically, they generally mean different things, but they’re both long and skinny and slither on the ground, right? All that aside, I think we can read into Beth and Daryl eating snake together at the beginning of their journey, and now Henry and Lydia eating worms together at the beginning of theirs. I think that's too close a parallel to ignore.

 @rabia___81 (IG) also suggested something I thought was really beautiful and wanted to include. She said she believes Henry fell in love with Lydia when they ate the worms together. I think that’s valid, as right after that we see them holding hands. So, she suggested perhaps Daryl eating the worm in 5x10 shows it was then, after he lost Beth, that he realized he'd been in love with her. All together now: 

 Carol stuff:

Henry, talking about Carol to Lydia, said, "She's tough." This is exactly what Daryl told Carol of Beth in S5. Actually, he said it to a few people. So, I wondered how we should interpret this. Does that mean Carol will be missing and presumed dead, much like Beth? Possibly, but I think it's more complicated than that.

Several of us during the episode last night started to get the vibe that they might be juxtaposing Carol and Alpha. This came in several different forms. When we first started seeing the flashbacks of Lydia's father, and she presented him as being a being somewhat abusive, we made comments that he seemed a lot like Ed, Carol’s first husband. 

Of course, as we move through the story, we find out that the opposite was true. Even though Lydia remembered certain things that way, it was only because her mother brainwashed her. In each of those scenes, it was really Alpha who was abusive and the father was the more loving one. So, we have a reversal from Carol and Ed. Carol was the abused and Ed, the abuser. In Alpha’s case, she was the abuser and her husband was the abused. Now, Alpha abuses her daughter, where we know Carol protected Sophia from Ed as best she could.

Then there’s the hair thing. I said at the beginning of the season that her long hair probably reflected that Carol was so happy with Ezekiel, and I was willing to bet something would happen down the line, some tragedy, and she’d cut it off again. The first part of that was confirmed by Henry in this episode. He said the reason she cut her hair short was because Ed used it to grab her by and summer against the wall. When she finally found love with Ezekiel, she finally felt happy enough and safe enough to let her go wrong again.

It’s super interesting that they chose this episode to put that story in, because Carol wasn’t even in this episode. But we saw an iconic scene of Alpha, completely bald, showing up at the gates. So, it may be a juxtaposition there between long-haired Carol and bald alpha. 

And there's the fact that this arc is about parents abusing children. Obviously, Daryl has a huge link to that because he was abused as a child, but Carol was abused as an adult and if they are heading toward a Carol/Alpha showdown, we’ll have a woman whose fought abuse her entire life and fought to protect her daughter against a woman is been abusive all her life and specifically abuses her daughter. That’ll be a pretty epic showdown. I think it’ll be a really great story. Obviously we aren't the only ones thinking this as the caller on TTD last night asked the same question. So, people are definitely picking up on this vibe.

And that’s what I mean about not being sure about the whole "she's tough" line. I think it will end up playing into this entire arc, but I'm not sure exactly how yet.

We also have an anti-parallel in the reason behind the hair length. We can surmise from Lydia’s flashbacks that Alpha only ever kept her hair long to please her husband. She cut it off for selfish reasons. (“I’m doing what I want now.”) Carol cut her hair off specifically as a way to fight against her abusive husband, and she kept it long because SHE was in a good emotional head space.

I kind of hope Carol doesn’t cut all her hair off again. I mean, she probably will, but it would be nice to see some growth in her by having her not cut it off when her losses start piling up again. And it’s interesting that Daryl knows this about her now, because if she does cut it off again, he’ll know why, and it will make him sad. 😥

Aside: someone in my group also made the very good point that Carol never felt safe enough to grow her hair long before Ezekiel, and that includes with Daryl. So in terms of proving Carol and Daryl aren’t romantic...just thought I’d point that out. 😉

Miscellaneous:

In one of Lydia’s flashbacks, she and her mother played checkers, and Alpha said checkmate. Obviously, a chess reference. My post on the chess game is HERE, but remember we saw the Governor playing chess a lot in S4. During that time, he was very heavily paralleled with Beth and they used his episodes to foreshadow her arc, so that's important. Perhaps we could argue that seeing chess again might suggest that this is when the resurrection arc will finally come back around.

I also think they use this to foreshadow the bad guy TF is now faced with. The villain is overly confident and thinks they’ll win easily. This was definitely true of the Governor who I believe said “checkmate” more than once. He felt confident he could take the prison down. Of course he didn't, which I suppose we could see as a foreshadow that eventually TF will beat Alpha as well. (Of course, most of us figured that anyway.)

I think this is especially interesting because we now know it was Lydia’s father who said this, not her mother. But we never saw him saying it. It’s like the writers came up with an excuse to specifically show Alpha saying it. That’s obviously intentional.

Another parallel: the Governor attacked the prison and took it down. Lydia keeps saying that this place, meaning Hilltop, will fall, just like every other place. It just feels like a call back to the Gov bulldozing the prison.

They emphasized a 23 in Lydia’s flashbacks. We saw it on the wall, and then we heard her parents talk about it at least twice. It seemed to me that we’d seen this number before, but I couldn't remember where. I looked into my old theories, and I found it. We saw it prominently in episode 5x11, directly after the music box woke up, when the TF goes with Aaron to Alexandria for the first time. He tells them to take Highway 16. The reason is that it's been cleared of walkers and they’ll get there safely. Rick doesn't trust Aaron because he doesn't know him. He says that they're going take Route 23. Aaron warns them heavily against that, saying it hasn’t been cleared and it's a bad idea, but Rick does it anyway. Sure enough, they run into walkers.

Originally, I tried to use these numbers as a way to point S7 or S8 for Beth’s return. Obviously not. But the meaning hasn’t gone anywhere. Route 16 (a multiple of 8, btw) led to a smooth journey, life, and safety. Route 23 (2+3 = 5 for S5?) on the other hand, led to death and separation. TF got all split up and ended up having to reunite at the end. It was especially significant that there was a flare (fire) and a water tower (Beth equals water) that were present were TF reunited. So, I always saw this as a Beth parallel.

We could argue the 23 here might be a Beth thing, but I think it's more likely that it shows that in TWD symbolism world, this is just a very negative number. It will always result in death and familial separation. This definitely happened with Lydia. We saw day 23 and the sequence that followed led to her father's death. It also could foreshadow that the war with alpha is going to be long and deadly.

We later saw the number 43, after more time has passed. Episode 43 of the show was Too Far Gone. And its when this number is shows that we see Alpha kill Matias. Kinda interesting and another parallel to the Governor.

In closing, I wanted to touch on the Omega title. I’m not clear yet why they called this episode Omega. Alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet, and of course it's Lydia’s mom's name. Omega is the last letter of the alphabet, and the title of the episode. 

I think this could be a Carol/Alpha thing. As in, if Carol equals Omega, then Carol will be the end of Alpha? I'm not positive about that either. Because Carol wasn't in this episode and I'm not sure that it makes sense to think Omega equals Carol.

Of course, in terms of TD, the title “Alpha and Omega” is one of the best known titles for Christ, so we can’t help but think this might be a Beth thing. But again, even if that’s the case, I’m not sure how to specifically interpret the title of this episode.

This was essentially the beginning of the war with the Whisperers, as they are at the gates. This is the first real encounter with them. But I’ll keep an eye on this symbolism as we progress.

Okay, that's it for today. I will talk about all the musical references in this episode tomorrow. Can't wait to hash that out because they’re really good! Stay tuned!

[twdmusicboxmystery]

9x03: Details

Okay, let's talk details. This may be a little bit lengthy.

***As always, spoilers abound for 9x03. You’ve been warned!***

Anne/Jadis and Father Gabriel. 

I probably should've talked about this yesterday in my post about plot points, but I didn't want to make that too long.

What we learned in this episode about Ann is a huge deal, at least where Rick is concerned, and possibly where Beth is concerned. We finally got answers to some questions we've had since S7. Remember that in 7x16, when Negan had everybody in the lineup and was going to kill Carl, and right after Jadis betrayed Rick's group, she wanted 10 of something from Negan. He said eight. She pushed for 10, but Negan glared at her and she conceded.

We didn’t know what she wanted, or why. People made the most sense, but we couldn’t be certain. Then of course there was the helicopter. Jadis was getting supplies from someone, but we didn't understand all the logistics behind it. Then, she captures Negan and tries to offer him to the people in the helicopter. It's interesting because he was freaking out at that point. We assumed he didn't know what was going and just wanted to get away. I don't know if anybody linked the helicopter to their conversation about Jadis wanting something from him.

But in last night’s episode, Anne admitted to FG that she was trading people for supplies. Whoever is in the helicopter is engaged in human trafficking. So, confirmation Anne wanted people from Negan to trade for supplies for the Scavengers. And that means that when she tried to get him to the helicopter people, he probably knew exactly what was going on and that's what he was freaking out. Negan has never mentioned any of this to Rick, I'm sure, and neither has Anne.

This is a very interesting development. First of all, the closest we’ve come to human trafficking on the show in the past is Terminus. So it feels like an adjacent callback to that.

This picture has been circulating on social media. 

The camper Tara and Heath took is at Jadis’s junkyard. This is pretty much confirmation that Jadis’s people took Heath, but they don't have them anymore. They didn't have him by the time Rick met Jadis. They'd obviously traded him already to the helicopter people. Of course, this hasn't been officially confirmed or anything, but given all the clues, this makes the most sense.

Why is this a big deal for Beth? Well, we’re not sure that it is. It's another possibility for where Beth might be. If she's there, she very well could return with Heath.

The reason this is a big deal for Rick is that this might explain how we could return to the show. Think of it this way. I stand by what I said before about him disappearing into a walker horde and, as was foreshadowed in 7x12, Michonne thinking he was eaten by walkers and is dead. But, as in 7x12, he’ll find a random escape and get out from under the walkers. TF wouldn't know unless he showed up at the gates of Alexandria again.

So maybe he escapes the walker horde, but then these human traffickers get a hold of him. Hell, it might even be Jadis that gives him to the traffickers. She pretty much admitted to FG that that's what she was doing when she kidnapped Rick and held him hostage in S7. Remember, she also put in A on the outside of his cell. It might've been a foreshadow that she would eventually give him to the traffickers.

Depending on where these people are and how hard it is to escape, it really could take years for Rick to make his way back. So again, none of this confirmed, but it’s super exciting.

Side note: I thought it was interesting how deeply hurt Anne was by Rick's suspicion. She mentioned it more than once to Father Gabriel, and it was that, more than anything else, that drove her to leave the group. She felt like she wasn't trusted, and anytime anything went wrong, she would be blamed for it. Given her past, you can hardly blame people for that. I'm not sure where this is heading, but I'm sure it will be a big part of her arc moving forward. Mostly, I just thought it was interesting how much value she places on Rick's opinion of her.

A/B symbolism.

@thegloriouscollectorlady made the comment that maybe A and B stand for alpha and beta. I think there's something to that, or at least to the general idea of it. 

Anne asked FG to follow her somewhere. She said that there was another place they could go and they would have lives he couldn't imagine. I kinda don't think she was talking about where the traffickers are. Maybe she was going to take him there, but it sounds like maybe there's yet another community somewhere she knows about. Or she could just be talking about where the traffickers are. Either way, we’re dealing with another place, which presents another possibility for how Beth could emerge.

Anyway, she asked him to follow her somewhere and he refused. She then replied, "and all this time I thought you were a B." I think A represents alpha, or more specifically, a leader. A very strong person. Beta could represent a follower or someone who's not quite as strong. Anne thought Gabriel was a follower and would do as she asked. As it turns out, he does have a mind of his own and is loyal to Rick, so she realizes now that he's not a follower. She's going to trade him to these human traffickers as an A or an alpha/leader.

So, I started thinking about this in terms of all the A's we've seen since season for the prison. Remember that we didn't see any Bs at the prison. Guys, this is actually confirmation of @thegloriouscollectorlady’s 4 Arcs for 4 Communities theory.

Perhaps we saw the A's at the prison to show that all the people at the prison would end up being leaders. All those still alive are. Even the A on the back of Daryl’s shirt at the Sanctuary may have been to show that what he learned while in prison would eventually lead to his leadership. After all, we saw him actually the Sanctuary in 9x01.

On TTD, Pollyanna McIntosh revealed that she does know what the A and B stand for, but couldn't tell anyone yet. She did say she’s excited for everyone to find out. So, they mean something specific in the whole human trafficking dynamic, but this is really interesting symbolically and a great way to help us understand all the A's.

Onto some other details.

We start school that we’ll eventually end at with Cindy executing Arat. Even them showing this first is interesting to me. The beginning mirrors the end, but it's also a clue about where were going to end up. A foreshadowing even though we couldn’t understand what it meant at the time.

We see Justin reanimate as a walker. The camera really focuses on his legs here. At first, I thought these were a random pair of walker legs without a torso attached. That's not the case as it’s Justin, they focused heavily on the legs. It reminded me of 4x01, where Bob saw legs outside the Big Spot. Then, when he's almost bitten, the walker with only one foot crawls toward him. That walker obviously has a torso, but it focused on the walker's legs, too.

We learn that Judith has a cough. We knew from 9x02 there’s a bug going around Alexandria. Another call back to 4a and the virus at the prison.

Also like in 4x01, Rick wakes up and walks through his garden. Specifically, Rick wakes up before everyone else (Michonne is still asleep) and works in the garden. I even think in the 4x01 sequence, we saw him glancing at the graves of the prison. Here, we see him visit Carl's grave with the tomato.

I said yesterday that this is a major turning point. I think that's the reason for all the 4x01 callbacks. This will be the final sequence leading up to Rick's departure. So, they’re putting all these callbacks in.

Michonne is leading! That made me so happy to hear. Rick tells Michonne that she's been leading at Alexandria by herself because he's been working on the bridge. The reason that made me happy is because I've been saying for a long time, since I figured out the 4 Poker Queens theme, that these four ladies that Beth mentions (Michonne, Carol, Maggie, and herself) will have to be leaders in the Apocalypse. We’ve finally reached that point.

Maggie is obviously leading at Hilltop and has been for a while. Michonne is leading Alexandria jointly with Rick, but she's been specifically overseeing Alexandria while he works on other things. And obviously when he leaves, she will be the sole leader there. Carol is definitely leading with Ezekiel. I mean, obviously, we figured that. But Jerry calls Carol “Boss Lady.” It shows that she is an equal leader with Ezekiel. So, we have Carol, Michonne, and Maggie all leading here in the Apocalypse. The only thing missing to fulfill that symbolism from Still is Beth.

They talk about a Richonne baby. I know it's upsetting some people because if Michonne does get pregnant, Rick won't be around for it. But it actually makes me super happy. You all know I’m positive Rick will be back eventually, even if it's not for a few seasons. So, I think it would be awesome if he came back to another child, which is biologically his. But, in a lot of ways, I also hope Michonne doesn't get pregnant before Rick leaves. The reason being that it would be another way to confirm that Rick will be back.

They wouldn’t put this in the show for no reason. It's a definite foreshadow of a Richonne baby. So, if Rick leaves, and they do have years-long time jump, and there's no baby, we can point to this and say, “Hey they specifically foreshadowed a Richonne baby. It's going to happen at some point.”

Everybody notice the anti-Glenn next to Maggie? I saw jokes about this in the fandom, even before the episode aired, and it made me laugh. This guy is super-angry and calling people assholes, so he really is an anti-Glenn, LOL.

We had Richonne family fun day, which was super cute. It's also parallel to Carl spending the day with Judith once he realized he'd been bitten. You could say this is a foreshadow of Rick's imminent departure. Like Carl, he's getting some family time in before he departs. The only difference is that Rick doesn’t know he'll be going, where Carl did.

Rick read Judith The Wizard of Oz! Oh, that made me so happy! I talked about the Dorothy/Wizard of Oz template at Grady HERE. The fact that we now actually have them reading it shows to me that they’ll be returning to Grady and/or Beth soon. Also, the specific part he read was interesting. If listen to the words he read (keep in mind they didn't have to tell us what part of the book he was at; they could have just showed the cover or something) it's when the twister is happening at the beginning and Dorothy is laying on the bed in fear, not sure what to do. 

Rick reads, “As the hours passed and nothing terrible happened, she stopped worrying and resolved to wait calmly and see what the future would bring. At last she crawled over the swaying floor to her bed and lay down upon it. Todo laid down beside her. In spite of the swaying of the house and wailing of the wind, Dorothy soon closed her eyes and fell fast asleep.”

So, we have the dog lying beside her (Sirius/Dog Star symbolism) and when she goes into the dream, she wakes up in a totally new place. In terms of template, Beth went to sleep (when she was taken from Daryl at the funeral home) and woke up in a new land (Oz/Grady). It’s a great thing for TD because Dorothy doesn't die at the end of the Wizard of Oz. She has a long journey, a lot of adventures and a lot of obstacles to overcome, but she eventually makes her way back to her family. (Oh, and her shoes are red. At least in the film version.)

I think it's interesting Rick read the part of the story where Dorothy is on the cusp of leaving her home and waking up in a new land, away from her family. On the one hand, this really could represent Rick’s arc. This is why I waited to talk about this until after I talked about Heath. In terms of Rick's arc mirroring Beth’s, if he's going to do a kidnapping arc, then that suggests he's about to go somewhere—as in, be kidnapped—wake up in a new community, like Beth did. That's super important. But, by extension, when he leaves, that's when the new sheriff in town should finally make her way home.

This episode featured the Richonne handhold that we saw in the trailer and in promo pics. It struck me as immensely important, though. Think of it this way. They held hands just like Bethyl in Alone, and we’re only two episode out from Michonne losing Rick in much the same way Daryl lost Beth.

We noted that they had lots of shots of axes in the show. The camera focused on them and we’re wondering if that's some sort of Red Machete reference. (Like Legs, the gal who picked up Red Machete, is about to appear, perhaps?)

Rick mentions leaving Merle behind in S1. Because we think he’s the one who ultimately left Beth behind, that’s important.

Daryl mentioned Glenn, Abraham, and Sasha. I could go a lot of different directions with this. Daryl wants them to be avenged, just as he avenged Beth by shooting Dawn. But then there’s the fact that he mentions them, but still not Beth. We’re getting callbacks to the deaths caused by Negan, which is also just part of this revenge arc. See what I mean? I could say a lot about this, but I don’t think I need to. You get the gist. (Sorry. Trying to breeze through some of the more obvious stuff because this post is already long.)

We had Maggie and Cindy at the cabin in the woods. More of the cabin in the woods theme. They also said on TTD that having the walker fingers coming out between the boards was a direct call back to 1x01. Once again, we could argue that going back to the beginning, new sheriff is about to wake up and find his (or her) family.

I thought Cindy falling through the porch was kind of interesting. It reminded me a little bit of the Hole in the Roof theory, or maybe falling through a bridge? I guess I'm not sure exactly how interpreter it, but it strikes me as symbolically important. I suppose it could also foreshadow Cindy's death in some way.

While fighting the walker, Cindy’s wound reopened. 

I talked after 9x02 about how they might be foreshadowing Aaron's death because all the emphasis on the possibility of infection setting in, right? @wdway suggested that perhaps, because they talked about this first with Cindy, it actually might be her death they’re foreshadowing.

T-Nonny in my group also pointed out that, even if they are foreshadowing Aaron’s death, they usually do those kind of foreshadows at least one season in advance, if not more. So, we may lose Aaron at some point, but probably not until at least S10.

So back to Cindy. When Daryl asked if she was all right, she said the wound had simply opened up again when fighting the walker. It reminded me of Rick's hand being bandaged in 4a and how he kept hurting again and having to re-bandage it. We also saw something similar with Abraham in S5. So, this really could foreshadow Cindy's death. If her wound was open while she touching walker guts, there's a very huge potential for infection there.

The other thing I thought about is the possibility that this is merely symbolic. Abraham's wound kept reopening because there was something emotional that he simply couldn't get past. It just wouldn't heal, because he hadn't faced his emotions and dealt with his past. You could say the same of Cindy here. Her wound is reopening because even after all this time, she still decided to get revenge on the people who killed her family. She hasn't healed or faced her wounds.

That led me to think that this could be a show-wide theme. Will all the members of TF heal? Yeah, if they can keep infection from setting in. Unfortunately, we’re seeing infection take hold in a big way in this episode. We’ve got fighting, revenge, the saviors walking off the bridge project, people not working together, and Daryl Maggie taking things into their own hands with Negan. And this will probably lead directly to Rick's “demise.” The infection is definitely setting in, and chances are the repercussions will be tragic.

Beatrice did a small fake out. I don’t know that it’s super significant except that it was a fake out. She pretended to have been hit in the head, but really it was elaborate scheme to keep the Oceansiders’ plan from being discovered.

I noticed when Daryl and Maggie were talking the woods, they found this walker.

It's one of those things that was a little bit random because it wasn't a big deal on the show. They heard something, Daryl lifted his is crossbow, sees the walker, and Maggie shrugs and goes to kill it. They focused on it quite a bit, and it was missing a foot. So more of the missing foot symbolism.

I don't have a whole lot more to say about the end than what I said yesterday. The school community that the Oceansiders used to live in was a parallel for the prison. You could also argue it was a lot like the school we saw with Father Gabriel in Coda. It reminded me of both those things.

It was mentioned in my group that this school the Oceansiders stayed at could also parallel the school scene we saw with Rick and Shane in S2. Perhaps something of foreshadow of Jon Bernthal’s return?

There were also a lot of street signs on the gates when Daryl and Maggie got there. I mentioned this before, when we saw this in trailer, a lot of them say things like no U-turn, Road Closed, Pass With Care, etc. I think they symbolize that, now that the Oceansiders have decided to do this and get their revenge, there's no turning back. This is probably going to divide the communities in a way that cannot be easily healed. And that includes Daryl and Maggie refusing to stop it, and the fact that they're going after Negan. Obviously, they’re making decisions that they won’t be able to backpedal from.

 I know a lot of people didn’t appreciate Carol saying every life counts, because she's obviously not had that philosophy in the past. But honestly, I think it shows her growth. It's very true that it's a little hypocritical coming from her, given what she's done in the past. But now that she's happy, with Ezekiel, and mothering Henry, her philosophy has changed. She and Morgan would be BFFs now. ;D

There is also a big X behind Daryl and Maggie here.

At the end, Daryl is carrying the ethanol. Interesting, given that it could be used as fuel for a fire. Daryl’s carrying it on his way to conspire with Maggie to kill Negan. Kinda reminiscent of The Arsonists Lullaby from S6.

Okay, I think that's all my details. Anyone see anything I missed?

[twdmusicboxmystery]

8x16: Analysis and What We Can Expect for S9

So I finally had the chance to rewatch and get my thoughts together about this last episode. Everyone should read @thegloriouscollectorlady’s post from yesterday. (X) I won’t go into as much detail about the arcs as she did, because she did a great job covering them and I agree with all her conclusions. Basically, I’ll go over details and hints they gave us about what to expect next season.

***As always, spoilers for 8x16 abound, so don’t read if you haven’t watched yet.***

There was definitely a theme about leading walkers way. First, we saw Alden and the other saviors lead walkers away from Hilltop. Then the huge herd that TF saw from the hill. Someone asked if Rick had ever seen a herd that large and he said no, so we can assume it was bigger than the one at the quarry. That doesn't bode well.

Baby Gracie made an appearance, wearing pink and with the yellow blanket, which we always tied to Beth. They also brought out parallels between Carl and Siddiq. The fact that they both lost their mothers and were good people who were trying to honor them. I also think it might be important that Siddiq is the kind of person who believes in killing the dead. He talked about his mom believing they had souls and so it was important to put them down. We’ve seen similar themes in the past.

Siddiq talked about how all that's left of the people we lose are their ideas. It’s basically the same thing that Glenn said to Enid in S6. That jives well with what @thegloriouscollectorlady said about Maggie’s arc and how Glenn will “find” her.”

The flash of Beth running in the opening credits is still there. If nothing else convinces you that her arc is still going, just remember that.

Eugene said they would “alpha to omega this thing less than 10”. Lots of symbols there. 

I also think it's important that Negan was willing to sacrifice his own people. Granted, Rick killed the saviors in the bar, even after they helped him. That was wrong, and not at all justified. But one thing you can say about Rick is that he's never willingly sacrificed his own people. He's more loyal to them than that. That I think is the line we can draw between Negan and Rick. He is willing to sacrifice good people if he feels it necessary. People are a resource to him, but also a means to an end. Rick has never viewed his people that way.

Morgan slitting the Savior’s throat at the beginning was a foreshadow of Negan getting his throat slit.

I'm pleasantly surprised that we didn't have any character deaths. I thought there might be up to three, and I'm genuinely relieved they all survived. Eugene did get his Sampson -like moment of redemption. The only difference is that he didn't die, which Sampson did. The redemption is very similar because Eugene saved his people and killed his enemies in one fell swoop, just like Sampson did. Will Eugene die soon? Possibly. They could always kill him off near the beginning of S9. It's also possible that while they use the Sampson template for his arc, if he has further to go, the difference will be that he doesn't die as Sampson did. I think it could go either way.

Someone pointed out to me that Father Gabriel wore the exact same color of blue that Beth did at Grady. I think he was something of a parallel to her in this episode. First, he was with an enemy (parallels between Negan and Dawn) and he tried to escape. He was caught and dragged back. Then later he was used in a hostage situation. So I guess the biggest thing we can take from this is that he survived. Which is good. ;D

Let's talk about the fight between Negan and Rick.

Two plate glass windows hung from tree. It doesn't make any sense for them to be hanging there and the show doesn't give us any explanation, so they must be thematic. They have crosses on them. Remember Beth wore a cross when she got shot.

What stood out to me is that Rick, firing at Negan, shoots a hole in one of the plate glass windows. 

It was very similar to the scene where FG and Sasha fought over the gun in 5x16 and shot the picture of the birch trees. 

I think the theme is the same. The camera focused on the hole in the plate glass window several times, which means they really wanted us to notice it. And I really think it comes back to the brutality theme.

When the leadership is being brutal, using violence to solve problems, people die. That was definitely true of Beth getting shot. Not only was TF being brutal, but Dawn was too, and it resulted in Beth (and Dawn) being shot. So we had the FG/Sasha sequence where glass was shot, and we’ve always thought that was an analogy for Beth being shot. Now we just saw a similar scene happen again. I'm not entirely sure what to make of that, unless it's to say that Beth arc is what's coming up next.

Think about it: the last time we saw the sequence was in 5x16. That was the last time that we saw the music box and it's almost like the two sequences are book ending what came between S5 and S9. Perhaps the sequence in S9, and the music box, was sort of a sendoff. Like saying we wouldn’t see this stuff again for a few seasons. I'm hoping it being present here shows that Beth’s arc will come next. The music box will return.

Small details from the scene:

Negan counts down from 10. He only gets to 8. That's exactly what happened with Joe Claimer in 4x16. At this point, I think this probably has more to do with Rick than anything else. Joe claimer stopped on 8, and Rick killed him in a very brutal fashion. He did still slit Negan's throat here, but then he saved him as well, which is what the opposite of what he did with Joe Claimer. It shows a change in growth on his part.

I couldn't help but be reminded, when Rick slit Negan's throat, of the walker he killed in Coda. When chasing Officer Lambson, he slices its abdomen open and its guts spill out. That was very much the height of Rick's. Once again, we have him saving Negan, where he didn't save Lambson. And I even think that, like the broken glass window, it could be indicative of a return of the arcs we saw in Coda.

When Maggie starts yelling about wanting to kill Negan, she uses the phrase, "we have to end it." It reminded me of something Crazy Walker Chick said in 4x01. She tells Rick not to put her down when she turns into walker. "Don't end it after." Really interesting foreshadow. Rick had to reach a point where he didn't end life after the battle. As he said many times, there has to be something after. So I think Clara’s line was always a foreshadow of S8.

Rick lets Negan live:

I’ve seen a lot of discussion about this around the fandom. Overall, I agree with those who say Negan should have been killed. In terms of justice, he really should have been. He really does need to pay for the things he’s done. And just like the Gov, I really think Negan’s too far gone. They can never trust him in the way Carl wanted, to be part of the community without doing something bad. Negan even told Rick that in the episode. One of the last things he says before Rick cuts his throat, in response to Rick saying, "you're beaten," he replies, “I'll get out of it. I always do." So he's always going to be trying to get the upper hand somehow.

On the other hand, it's also important to understand that keeping Negan alive was not about justice. Rick didn't do it because he thought Negan deserved to live. It's about society, as @thegloriouscollectorlady explained. I also think it's about Rick's mindset. He couldn't separate putting away his brutality and killing Negan. The two had to go together. In his head, to honor Carl, Negan had to live. Rick tells Negan that in the infirmary. He says, "this is not about who you killed."

Narratively, I see now why they kept him alive: to cause conflict and kick us into the next season. Maggie, Daryl, and Jesus don't like that he's being left alive, so this is going to inform the arcs moving forward.

Most of us picked up on the Daryl and Dwight scene as super-important for TD. I completely agree with everything @thegloriouscollectorlady said. The fact that Dwight is leaving, which means he could end up being yet another character out there whose fate we don't know, is no small thing.

Another important thing: while Rick said, "my mercy prevailed over my wrath," he wasn't the only one that was true of. It’s true of most of the characters. Morgan got to a point where he didn't kill people, thanks to Jesus. Carol’s evolution to this point has taken a long time. Remember, she killed Karen David in S4, and now she seems very happy, and is showing a lot more mercy. Over time, her mercy prevailed over her wrath as well. We saw it happen with Daryl as well. He took Dwight out to the woods with every intention of killing him, but then ended up letting him live. Daryl’s mercy prevailed over his wrath as well.

Some details about the scene.

Symbols were strong here. When he let him go, Daryl threw Dwight a set of keys. (Key theory).

Dwight said, "I'm a piece of shit." That's exactly what Tara said to Glenn when she first met him after the prison fell. She was acknowledging the wrong she done by being with the Gov and how guilty she felt. So another theme from S4.

Finally, I hope it wasn't lost on anyone that Dwight found the key to finding Sherry inside a small, white cabin. We’d seen this cabin before. It's part of Dwight’s story, but I think Beth is inside a cabin somewhere. They’re paralleling Dwight and Sherry heavily with Beth and Daryl, and we know Emily filmed in that cabin for S5. None of that is a coincidence. It will lead to something.

Dwight finds a note from Sherry, which harkens back to Beth’s thank you note. Inside was a an eternity sign. We can only assume what she wrote is a clue to where Dwight can find her. He smiled, which probably means he understands and knows where she is. (Wherever they took their honeymoon.)

So the question is, was their honeymoon in Atlanta? Could he be going back there? Could they have taken their honeymoon in the same cabin Mandy and her family stayed in? Could Dwight meet Legs somewhere around when they get there? Okay, maybe that's taking it a bit far, but I'm just asking. ;D

I also think another possibility is that perhaps Dwight could go to Texas. It depends on how soon they merge the two series, and I'll talk about this more tomorrow when I talk about TTD and FTWD, but there were some interesting themes going on in Fear, around Morgan, that make me think it's still possible Beth could show up there. Just one possibility, of course.

I also want to point out a dialogue parallel. As he's walking away, Daryl says, "Find her." We specifically heard that phrase back in S4 with Glenn and Maggie. Every time I think about it, I hear in Abraham's voice. "I get it. (Beth line) You have to find her." TD has said many times that Maggie and Glenn's reunion in 4B is a foreshadow of Beth and Daryl's reunion. Plus we have the inherent dark tunnel symbolism, as it happened inside a dark tunnel. Now they’re using the exact same phrasing, talking about Dwight finding Sherry, who’ve been heavily paralleled with Beth and Daryl. I’m just saying it all works together.

Also, this convo is pretty much proof that Daryl was talking about Beth in 7x03. Of course, TD never needed any proof, but even so. This confirms that everything Dwight did, he did for Sherry. Daryl understands that. The fact that Dwight and Sherry are being heavily paralleled with Beth and Daryl, shows that Beth is the only one he could possibly have been talking or thinking about in S7.

Dwight says, "It doesn't matter why." Can't you just hear Beth's words echoing after that? "It does matter." I'm sure Daryl did. I'm sure he was thinking about her when listening to Dwight grovel. That's why he let Dwight go. It really wasn't out of the goodness of his heart. It was for Beth.

 Let’s appreciate that this episode ended with the sunset. We can see sunrises and sunsets in the show and have them not be the beginning or ending of an arc. But any time an arc closes, they specifically show a sunset. (Such as when Sasha died.) This episode ended with a sunset. I think we can expect sunrise next season and the beginning of a new arc.

Okay so let's talk about what we can expect next season.

They gave us a lot of hints at the end of this episode for what we can expect moving forward. Mostly everyone his friends now. Dwight and Rosita made up. Carol, Ezekiel, Henry and Jerry all went back to the kingdom together, looking very happy and peaceful. I think it's safe to say we can expect more Carzekiel in S9.

Tara seems to be taking up residence at the Sanctuary. Perhaps she will become a leader there, which I think is cool. I noticed that when she arrived in the truck, she said they brought glass to fix all the windows. So we have an opposite of broken glass here: the glass being repaired.

The Maggie/Jesus/Daryl thing. Nobody saw that coming. Nobody. It's disturbing, but also just the conflict that will happen next season. The question I have is why Jesus is involved. After all his arguing with Tara about saving saviors, I wonder why he would conspire with them to kill Negan. I guess we won’t know until next season.

Probably the most telling line to me came when Rick and Michonne talked to Negan. They talked about rebuilding and Rick talked about what Negan did to everyone and what he took from them. Rick says they're going to rebuild,

"Something like what we had. Something were going to get back."

Things really clicked for me when I heard that. Next season is going to be about getting back things that they've lost. Only after the war, will they get back what they lost.

Then there’s this dialogue parallel:

Daryl didn't really get back what he lost back in S5, but I feel like this is a hint that he will in S9.

S9 may be a replay of S4:

Here's the other thing we talked about briefly in my group. Even though everything we’d predicted about Rick’s arc came true (he really did have a chance to integrate the communities and made it work this time, rather than what happened on the prison with the Gov; so the opposite happened, including leaving Negan alive vs. killing the Gov), this episode actually felt a lot like the end of 3x16. Remember that in that episode, they took the people of Woodbury, brought them to the prison and integrate them into their community. At that point, the Gov was also alive, but no one in TF knew where he was.  Here, of course they know where Negan is, but he’s staying alive for the time being.

So if narratively this episode represents 3x16, it would make sense that Beth will appear next season, perhaps as early as 9x01, to parallel her coming front and center in 4x01 (Bethyl hug) and to go back to that arc. I even wonder if they’ll do something with Negan to parallel the Gov, and there will be some big confrontation in 9x08 where he’ll die. Of course that remains to be seen.

In terms of Beth, everything seems to be coming together for her to show up either in FTWD or S9. We have Dwight going somewhere, we don't know where. We had the mysterious Legs in the Red Machete. I think they have to show us who that is, because what would be the point of showing the legs and not the face, and then just ending it there?

I remember during S5, one of tptb—Greg Nicotero, I think—said something about how if there's romance for Daryl, it's not going to be for really long time. I don't even remember if he said that before or after Coda. Probably after. Well, it's been a really long time. Meanwhile, Norman’s hinted at a romance for Daryl after AOW, which is now officially over. And now these rumors that they might be filming at Grady.

This is why I can never quite answer when people ask me if I'm going to give up after a certain season. I always say it depends on how the season is and what we see in the show. With all this stuff coming together, I just can't. I think we'll see her in S9, and I do think now that perhaps Dwight will have something to do with that. It would create a really beautiful symmetry to have Dwight bring Beth to Daryl. It would be yet another reason why we saw so much Beth symbolism in 6x06.

Meanwhile, did everyone see what Norman posted on Monday? Pretty sure it’s a fan edit, but he reposted it and said they were getting back to it, meaning the start of S9 filming. Could it be that the wolves will appear in season 9? ;D (”There’s gonna be a party when the wolf comes home...”)

Thoughts?

[whateverisbeautiful]

Reveling in Richonne

#102: The Alarm (8x03-8x07)

I mentioned how in 8A there was good, bad, and heartbreaking things to discuss. Well the premiere provided a lot of the good and the mid-season finale provided a lot of the heartbreaking. So in the episodes in between, while there definitely was some good (I thought 8x04 and 8x05 were really well done) there was also some bad too. (looking at you, Garbage Pail Kids)

And while Rick and Michonne wouldn’t be reunited until the mid-season finale, there’s still some nice Richonne connections in the episodes in between the premiere and msf.

(Side note: This post is long cuz it covers about five episodes, so just wanted to say thanks in advance for reading this!)

The first connection comes from Rick’s interaction with Morales. As Morales aims a gun at Rick, cuz he’s “Negan” now, Rick tries to relate to him by letting him know the people he lost, that Morales would know. He lists Lori, Shane, Andrea, and then Glenn. (RIP to the forgotten T-Dog lol👌🏽)

And then Rick details how heinous Negan is when he tells Morales about how Negan is the one who killed Glenn and bashed his head in right in front of him and Glenn’s pregnant wife.

Hearing this is the first thing to make Morales drop the tough guy front and he asks, “He had a wife?” And Rick responds saying, “Not before. He met her.”

Morales asks, “In this?” cuz this seems to really have Morales shook lol. Like he can’t seem to wrap his mind around it. 

And, when I thought about it, I realized that it actually is pretty significant to find a spouse in this new world.

Like sure people might couple up, but to feel like you found someone who you legitimately consider your wife? That’s rare and really special. 😊

And then this becomes a Richonne moment cuz the way Rick reacts to that question, you know he is thinking about how he too found a wife in this.

So he pauses for a moment and then says, “Yeah. In this.” 

I love it. ☺️😭 I always like moments that indicate R&M acknowledging their relationship.

It’s also just such a super sweet thing to think about cuz, to Morales and most people, this is a world that is just bleak and dark at all times and all this world ever does is take from you. But for Rick, as much as he’s lost, he gained something so valuable in finding and falling for Michonne. 🙌🏾

And for Rick and Michonne to find the type of golden relationship they have, even in this, it really shows not just how fortunate that is, but also how resilient their bond must be that it could withstand all the craziness this world throws at them.

Like this is a world designed to break them, and yet they only grow stronger together. 👌🏽

It’s interesting that Morales tells Rick that all the people he listed are dead “and somewhere along the way Officer Friendly died with them” it’s a cool line as a season 1 callback, but lucky for Rick he found someone to bring him back to life. 😌

So while Rick def isn’t the person he was in season one, unlike Morales who lost a family, Rick gained a family. Like, since these two last saw each other, Rick has a daughter and a legit soul mate and that’s a big part of what’s kept him from not completely losing himself.  

And, as you know, this conversation doesn’t go on too long cuz Daryl shows up and takes Morales out, no questions asked. It’s the necessary approach imo. 👌🏽

In 8x02, there’s that scene where Rick is fighting a guy who Rick thinks is trying to keep him from guns but, after killing the guy, Rick finds that this man was actually trying to protect a precious little baby.

That was such an eye-opening moment cuz it really put some perspective on this war and how Rick isn’t the only one fighting for his kids.

It was tough to see Rick have to realize that he’s just taken away this girl’s father. 😥

The minute I saw the baby, I was like “Rick, this baby is apart of TF now so you know we gotta bring her home.” Like I was so serious that he better not leave without this baby. And I’m glad that we see in 8x03 that he does in fact go back for the baby.

So then there’s 8x06 and that week there were two holidays, Thanksgiving and “Michonne’s finally back on the screen” day. 😋

I was def excited cuz this was Michonne and Carl’s long awaited return. Their absence was definitely felt while they were gone, cuz they really are apart of the fabric of what makes TWD, TWD.

Also I kept thinking that if Michonne was with some of these groups during these outpost missions there would probably be a lot less of the shenanigans going on lol.

Like I feel like she would have been a great asset to that team with Morgan, Jesus, and Tara cuz they needed someone to be the leader and guide them and shut down Paul’s horrible idea to take a boatload of Saviors back to Hilltop. 🙄

I feel like she could’ve been a perfect fit to offer up some wisdom on that whole situation and they would’ve listened to her. Cuz despite what Tara said, Rick listens to Michonne first and foremost lol. 💯😂

And Michonne’s presence also would have been very helpful if she was with Rick and Daryl when these two decided to full on brawl and blow up the guns they just worked so hard to get. 🤦🏽‍♀️

Which btw, when I saw them fighting I was legit like…

Lol I felt like a mom who was waiting for her kids to get it together cuz ain’t nobody got time for that. 😂

But Rick and Daryl are very much brothers and they always end up wildin out when they’re together which is entertaining.

All I’m saying tho, is I highly doubt they’d be pulling all that if Michonne was there. And it’s not even cuz she’s like some no nonsense dictator or anything, I just think her presence helps people stay focused.

So she’s back for 8x06 and the first time we see her is when Carl opens the gates to ASZ as the cars return from their outpost excursion.

I love that, even tho she’s still not completely healed, she made sure to be there at the entrance when her people returned.

And then it’s sweet that both Carl and Michonne are given letters cuz,from what we see during this letter segment, all the leaders are the ones getting letters; like Carol, Maggie, and Rick. But of course Carl and Michonne get some too cuz that’s the royal family, y’all. 😋👑

I love seeing Michonne and Carl together as they read this letter and you can see just from Michonne’s expression, as she watches bodies be removed from the cars, that she’s really aware of the weight of this war and it’s hard for her to only be able to see the end results and not be there on the battleground with them.

It’s a super subtle but nice touch that during the more vulnerable part of Ricks letter, where he talks about it being scarier than he thought, the focus is on Michonne and Carl.

And then this cold open wants to try me by ending with Jadis and her trash henchman doing arts and crafts in nothing but an apron. 🤨

Y’all, you already know what happens when I feel tried. May we go on a gif journey about how I felt about this whole trash people storyline? 🙃

So, first of all, lets go back to 8x03 real quick cuz that’s when I realized that Rick was even thinking about going back to them.

Daryl sort of ambiguously asks if Rick is sure about a visit and that’s when I was like wait please tell me Daryl is not talking about who I think he’s talking about. Is Rick seriously about to willingly go to the Trash Folk? There’s zero reason to do that so I was like...

And I knew Jadis and the junkyard people would be returning for season 8 from seeing the trailer, but I didn’t think it would be because Rick willingly goes to them for a deal. I was so not here for it. 😒 Cuz, even aside from the fact that I don’t like Jadis’s thirstiness, it’s just such a bad idea. 🤦🏽‍♀️

These junkyard people have proven to be snakes. Snakes are almost worse than outright villains cuz as least with outright villains you know where they stand. 

But with snakes, their “yes” and their “no” mean the same thing; nothing. Cuz they’ll turn on you at the drop of a hat and they’ve shown that they have zero interest in cooperating multiple times so I just could not understand how returning to them for help was an actual part of the plan.

It’s one thing if they only decided to go to the trash people as an absolute last resort, once they learned that the majority of the Kingdom has been completely wiped out, but instead, this seems to be apart of the original plan, which baffled me. It just was not a good look for Rick to think this was a reasonable idea.

I also have a tough time believing that Michonne would’ve been cool with this cuz she’d know that these trash people’s word can’t be trusted. So even before Rick steps foot into the junkyard I was already just like… 

So then, Rick shows up to this place alone, and I feel like low key part of his reasoning for feeling confident enough to do that was because he knows Jadis is feeling him, to which I was like…

 And y’all, even Jadis is confused as to why Rick thought this was a good idea. 😂

Like she keeps reminding Rick that she shot him but Rick’s consistently like nah you grazed me, which...

I was like “shot, grazed, looked at the wrong way, I don’t care, either way we shouldn’t be here”. Cuz these trash people are the reason he nearly lost half his family in one day. 😠

Their betrayal threw everything off and it caused Michonne to be badly beaten and Carl to be seconds away from being Lucilled so, to me, the only business we have left with the trash people is to just take them all out and then bounce. 

I remember telling my brother before this episode that they better have a really, really great explanation for why Rick is going back to this place. Like it can’t be a good reason, it has to be great and necessary to the point where there was no other way but this way, cuz otherwise nothing explains why this would be happening.

The only other way this wouldn’t be totally nonsensical, would be if this storyline was included so that Michonne could go break Rick out of there and then proceed to give Jadis a very nice and thorough lesson on the golden rule.👌🏽

And I think I saw that Lincoln thought that was going to be the route it would go as well cuz that really would have been the natural next step. Like Michonne coming to get him would have been the better storyline imo, so when that didn’t even happen I was like…

In this exchange, Jadis is convinced this must be a trick cuz that’s the only thing that makes sense. You know your plan is illogical when even the person who betrayed you is like “...yeah bruh, you wanting to work with us doesn’t add up cuz we’ve shown you firsthand that we’re trifling.” 😂

Rick holds up the polaroids to show them the pictures and that also had me like…

Cuz one; I felt like finding out the reason Rick was taking photos was to convince people who don’t deserve convincing was sort of lackluster. And two; I was like Rick pass those photo around cuz ain’t nobody can see those little things when you’re holding them up like that lol. And three; I felt bad cuz, little does he know, his own people are headed off to completely change the plan and compromise the very advantage he’s telling these trash people they have.

And y’all, I’m mad at the line “switch sides again.” 🤦🏽‍♀️ If that has to be said, there’s already a problem lol. They shouldn’t have switched sides in the first place.

I feel like the show should have gave Rick more credit cuz he would know by now that if he can convince them to switch sides that easy, then clearly they can turn on him again just as easily. 

Rick also says that his people know he’s here but I was like, apart from Daryl...

Cuz no one seemed to be ready to go retrieve Rick from this place if things went South. In fact, it was sort of odd that Rick’s whereabouts were barely brought up with the other characters while he was gone.

And sure enough, 8x06 ends with Rick locked up cuz that’s literally the only way a plan that faulty would go.

I felt bad too cuz Rick’s all looking out of this tiny little hole in the bin and probably thinking someone is coming to break him out but I was like...

Cuz his son is out helping a stranger in the woods, self aware that it wouldn’t be honoring him. And his friends are headed to put a hole in the Sanctuary despite the fact that the walkers surrounding the place was working.

And the Kingdom went from being stacked with fighters to having literally less than five left. And Maggie has to deal with the POW’s cuz Paul was so convinced that she would like that idea but, because she has common sense, she does not like that idea and has to figure out what to do. 😕

So when it comes to executing the plan, all the characters were pretty much just like…

So Michonne’s storyline in 8x06 was just okay imo. It was hard not to feel like they just put this storyline in to give Michonne and Rosita something to do and not cuz it was particularly important to the story. And some stuff felt ooc for Michonne. But luckily, because Danai is such a good actor, she was still able to sell it. 👏🏽

It starts with Michonne putting stuff in a car as she gets ready to leave ASZ. Rosita walks over and tells her, “Rick said stay put.” And you know my extra self found that pretty interesting.😁

There’s a lot of different ways Rosita could have told Michonne she probably shouldn’t be heading out in her condition but she chooses to bring up Rick cuz one; she knows that’s Michonne’s man and two; I feel the fact that they’re implying Rick said this shows that Michonne staying and resting was something important to him.

Michonne quickly replies that she’s, “Just gonna look” and Rosita reminds her that she’s still healing and she should get some rest so that she’s ready for the next fight. But Michonne is pretty set on going so she tells Rosita “I’ll be back soon.”

Rosita gets in the car and I love that Michonne low key has a reaction like “girl, let me live” lol. 😋

Michonne reminds Rosita that she too is still healing but Rosita says she’s been shot worse than this and then she tells Michonne to drive, to which I was low key like...

Lol I needed Rosita to check her tone real quick cuz she’s dealing with the queen now. And Michonne sees that Rosita is now set on going too so they drive off to go on this road trip together.

So on their car ride, Rosita asks Michonne, “Why did you need to come out here?” 

Michonne tells Rosita, “The second they rolled out of the Sanctuary and I wasn’t with them…it’s like this sirens been going off in my head and I can’t turn it off.”

Now that’s deep. That’s how you know that interconnection is so real, when being apart literally sends an ongoing siren off in her head.

I also think those sirens are going off cuz she can sense that her man is in a trifling situation right now lol. Like I wanted Michonne to turn the car around and go to the junkyard so she could #ringthealarm and shut Jadis’s extra-ness down. 😂 

She goes on to say, “I helped get this started. It’s been a day and a half and I have felt every second.” 

Y’all, I know it’s the overall war that’s made her feel this way, but low key it’s also totally the fact that she’s had to be apart from Rick this long that’s caused her to feel this so heavily. Lemme say it again; magnets. 😋

She says, “So I just need to see it.” Which I was like, but you don’t tho cuz your man has pictures. 😂

And then she says, “And turn that alarm off in my head and turn around and go home.”

This felt significant to me for two reasons. One; cuz this just goes to show how Michonne has such an innate need to go see for herself, but again because she has a full on family now she knows she has to adjust a bit. 

So she wants to see in order to stop the sirens but she also knows that just as important as that is to her, it’s also important that she turn around and go home after cuz she has people at home who need her. So again, it’s her trying to find this balance of who she was before her family and after.

And two; The “turn that alarm off in my head” stood out to me cuz not only is it really telling that when Rick is away a full on alarm goes off for her, it also reminded me of Rick’s little happy place scene where in Rick’s head, Michonne is the one to literally turn the alarm off for him.

So hearing that I was like...

I felt like that was just an interesting parallel cuz it’s like they both are so integral to each others lives, and it’s their presence that helps to turn off those alarms for each other and give them a sense of peace. 👌🏽

Rosita hears this and gets on board cuz again Danai sold that and made that motivation believable. And then Michonne hears something so they stop the car and go check out this Savior’s cache.

Rosita and Michonne spot two Saviors inside and one of them does not have very good things to say about Rick. Michonne and Rosita overhear this lady dissing Rick and I love that Michonne’s expression when she hears that is just so casually like “alright lemme handle this”. The second this Savior decided to insult Rick I knew this was about to be her last day on earth.

Michonne accidentally kicks a tennis ball which blows their cover and it leads to Michonne having to fight this chick. And, in this fight, Sis is struggling cuz she’s still not fully recovered yet. Like she’s supposed to be at home resting, not in a full on sword fight.

The lady gets away and starts driving the Fat Lady but, with some very convenient timing, Daryl and Tara’s truck comes and rams into the car. Rosita mentions how that was too close and Michonne agrees as she seems to be realizing that they’re definitely not healed up enough to be out here like this.

Rosita and Michonne talk with Daryl and Tara as they both wonder why the other is out here. When Rosita asks Daryl he says that “They have a lot more work to do.” And then he says, “All of us” and I was like…

Cuz Sis does not need to be going with them and getting involved with this recklessness. Plus she already had her rogue storyline in season 7 and she learned from that. But this season wasn’t as adamant about character consistency, so she goes with them.

And then they drive to a spot where they can see the sanctuary and Michonne is able to see that the walkers are surrounding the building just like Rick said and detailed in his letter.

I think what made this whole storyline of her “just needing to see” feel a little ooc is cuz last time she headed out like this was when she had that red head savior take her to the Sanctuary in season 7. And while yes, Michonne is someone who’s always willing and ready to go and see, that’s often met with some sort of action too. Like she didn’t just want that Savior to take her to Negan, she wanted to try and do something but then she saw how stacked Negan’s team is and realized it wasn’t a good idea.

But this time, she literally just wants to go and look with no real action behind it so that’s what made this motive feel a little weaker this time around. Especially cuz her and Rick had that whole conversation in 7x08 about wanting to do this the “me and you” way so you’d think that would have made her feel less inclined to go along with Daryl and Tara too.

And then there’s 8x07 and this rogue crew is huddled as they discuss what Daryl and Tara want to do. And watching them discuss this I was just like “Michonne, this isn’t you, boo”. 

Like these other guys have shown to not always have the best judgment, but she knows better. And don’t get me wrong, it’s not like Michonne has to be perfect, she can make mistakes just like the rest of them, but this particular mistake just didn’t feel like one she would make.

And she does express that it’s risky, but Rosita is the one who more vocally expresses the common sense approach that this idea could go wrong and she asks why they aren’t just waiting it out like they planned which I was like...

Rosita also says, “I believe in Rick Grimes” which I’m glad someone said it cuz I was really starting to wonder if people remembered who he was lol. 

I also was like how are the writers not going to have Michonne respond or co-sign that lol? It’s like they forgot that she’s “belief in Rick Grimes” personified.

I’m happy that Rosita says she’s not doing it and seeing that she was wise enough to walk away I was like...

Before leaving, Rosita asks Michonne one more time if she’s good with this and Michonne responds saying she helped get this started so she’s gotta see it through. But I was like Sis, following the plan is seeing it through, it’s the rogue stuff that could jeapordize it all.

Rosita tells her, “You think it’s easier to come out here and risk, then stay back there and wait.” And Michonne did think that…in season 7. A season ago, she literally learned what Rosita is telling her about how sometimes you don’t get to know and you can’t always go rogue, so that’s why this arc is a little frustrating cuz, unless I’m missing something, her character went through this already but instead she was painted like that never happened. 

Despite Rosita’s wise words Michonne still gets in the car so I was just like...

They drive closer to the Sanctuary and then Tara gets out and Michonne has an expression where I was like that’s the look of someone who is remembering they did this storyline already lol. 

Daryl asks if she’s up for this cuz it’s clear she’s having second thoughts. And y’all, I low key wanted Michonne to turn to Daryl and tell him, “Look, I didn’t want to say this in front of company, but now that it’s just us, if you don’t turn this car around right now cuz we are not about to do this and risk messing things up.” 😂

I especially wanted Michonne and Daryl to not go through with this cuz seeing these two together, it got me thinking about how, in this car, is Rick’s wife and best friend. 

And at the beginning of this whole tv show, Rick had a wife and best friend, and they seriously let him down. So I felt it was important to show how Michonne and Daryl are different and they would stand by Rick rather than go against him.

And luckily, Michonne does end up deciding to stand by Rick and the original plan, which I was like...

She tells Daryl, “I came here to see things for myself. I wanted to know that things were gonna work. But you know what? I don’t get to know that. None of us do. What I do know is that things are working now. So maybe we just need to trust that things are going to keep working” 

And this all felt very reminisncent of her speech in the cell in 7x08. I appreciate that she basically lands on knowing she should trust both the plan and trust Rick. 👏🏽

So then she ends with saying, “Because this, what we’re about to do, it’s not worth risking us.” I heard that and I was like there she is. That’s the common sense Michonne that I know lol. 😋

Daryl says that it is worth the risk for him and it’s sad cuz you can tell there’s a lot of guilt and PTSD that he’s carrying so he’s acting emotionally. But they can’t afford to act emotionally or selfishly cuz that literally could be life or death. 

Acting on a pretty reckless impulse is dangerous to the people he wants to protect and so I feel like Daryl needs someone to just adamantly and compassionately tell him...

Michonne lets Daryl know she really hopes it works but she can’t do it which I’m very glad she comes to that conclusion. 

Would it have been nice if she realized that sooner or if she made more of a case for Daryl to not do it either? Definitely. But, at the same time, Daryl’s a grown man who was gonna do what he wants and I’m just glad she came to her senses before getting actively involved in this messy plan.

Daryl understands and so Michonne gets out of the car and walks away. Tara is still hopeful so she tells Daryl they can still do this and I was like “Y’all really might want to reconsider” cuz once Michonne decides it’s not a good idea, that’s when you know you have to throw the whole plan away. 😂

So then with Rick’s whole trifling storyline in 8x07 he’s had a day. 

It starts with him being photographed and sketched by these sketchy people. And I was just like why is this even a storyline lol? Like why are we here? 🤦🏽‍♀️

This could have been valuable time spent with Rick and Carl but instead Rick’s over here having to play the trash folks reindeer games. 🙄

He has to fight yet another one of their armed walkers and because he’s Rick to the Grimes he manages to find a way to make it work and when Jadis sees that he’s winning she steps in and so now they’re fighting and he’s able to pin her down and the whole time I was just watching this thinking “So this is what y’all wanna do TWD? This is what we’re doing now?” and this was my legit reaction during all this…

Needless to say I wasn’t amused lol. I just felt like this was an unnecessary mess.

(Side note: If I was Rick I’d low key be in my feelings that no one came to get me cuz he had to finesse his way out of that whole situation on his own. I’d be showing up to ASZ looking at each person like..

But, even with no one coming after him, Homeboy stayed confident that he would walk out of there the whole time 👏🏽)

Rick asks Jadis if they’re done and then when he helps her up this was me...

Jadis says they’ll join him which literally means nothing cuz they’re the type to change their mind at the drop of a hat. 

And then this chick has the nerve to ask for all the Saviors stuff after. And if that weren’t enough, she then asks to sculpt Rick cuz Jadis is the queen of taking trying it to the highest of heights. 

Basically to sum it up; I was and am so ready to be done with these trifling Garbage Patch Kids. 😑

And then of course Rick’s not having her requests, so he demands his clothes back and it’s clear he’s over this too.

Then he takes the whole lot of them with him to that water tower where he finds that, while he was out, his group done changed the whole plan. 😪

Homeboy was gone for a day and a half and in that short time his whole plan just unraveled. And not even by Negan, but by his team. Rick’s just trying to make a way for people but nobody was putting any respek on his name. 

And what’s sad is that, while he was gone, not only did his whole plan unravel but his whole world was about to be shaken as well. Cuz it was in 8x06 where in one quick moment, his son’s days became marked.

It’s crazy that in these episodes there was a scene that seemed so simple but would change the course of this entire show. And that’s Carl going out and helping Siddiq.

Looking back now, Carl’s reaction after that scuffle with the walkers makes it pretty clear that something went really wrong. But, just like Rick and Michonne, we wouldn’t find out how wrong it went until the msf. 😢

I’ll talk more about this whole situation soon, but for now, one line that stands out is when Carl tells Siddiq that, “Sometimes kids have to find their own way to show their parents the way” 

And one thing I’ll always appreciate is that Carl definitely showed Rick and Michonne the way to each other. 👌🏽😭