#why is the dragon warrior title something Po can pass down‚ even???

[mechieonu]

just binged the entire trilogy and. yeah. i honestly don't understand what left of Po's story needs to be told

[justanotherwriter140]

Kung Fu Panda 4 - Edited

A really, really long discussion post.

It’s been a hot minute since I’ve expressed an explicit opinion on anything, hasn’t it? Actually, I don’t think I’ve ever done a hot-take post. I guess now is as good a time as any to write my first one, given our current situation...

So, the elephant (panda?) in the room: CinemaCon.

While we’ve hardly even had twenty-four hours to process this new information, I know that there are already a lot of strong opinions out there, and many of which are displeased. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone who’s necessarily happy about the news we received yesterday, and while everyone has differing reasons as to why they’re not thrilled, I think there are a lot of common factors among the skeptics. IMO, all of the concerns I’ve heard since the announcements have been understandable. Here’s a list of the most significant concerns:

Chen/Fox Warrior

A replacement for the Dragon Warrior

A villain whose “power” is (potentially) resurrecting past villains from the dead

The Furious Five and their relevancy

Director Mike Mitchell

Many fans are finding themselves confused with this alleged plot, mainly because (to put things bluntly) it doesn’t make any sense. I have a plethora of questions in regards to the second bullet alone, imagine how many I have in total!

You won’t have to imagine, actually, because I’m doing you all the favor of writing down my every thought. Strap in, folks!

First of all, who is Chen (?) and why is she relevant? While these are things that will, without question, need to be answered in the upcoming film, I’m still feeling apprehensive. Why would Po choose her as the next Dragon Warrior, a title that for three consecutive movies has been regarded as the highest possible title that any living being in this universe can achieve? What makes Chen the next Dragon Warrior, what makes her eligible? The Dragon Warrior is essentially OP at their full potential, and if we’re assuming that this title can in fact be passed on, why would Po give this power and influence to someone he meets in the same movie in which he makes the life-altering decision to seek out an heir? Why wouldn’t he at least choose someone he knows closely, rather than someone he initially doesn’t get along with (as stated in the plot description) and likely doesn’t trust? In my mind, the movie could only justify that choice with some sort of “message from the universe” making itself known to Po and telling him to choose Chen as his successor, but if that’s the road the writers end up going down, then I’d have to reiterate: why?

Backtracking for a second. We have never had any reason to believe that “another” Dragon Warrior existing is even a possibility, forget the concept of them co-existing with the current and original Dragon Warrior. Didn’t the initial significance and nuance of the title come from the fact that there is only one person who can be the Dragon Warrior, because the concept of the “Dragon Warrior” isn’t so much a title as it is Po himself? The universe (Oogway) must choose the Dragon Warrior because they are a singular being of legend. It is one person, and that person is Po. Wasn’t the point of the first film that the title ultimately doesn’t really matter because there is no “secret ingredient,” so to speak? The title doesn’t actually give Po anything. “It’s just you,” Po says, and that was the resolution.

Let’s set all of that aside for a moment, because I have a follow-up question: why in the world would Po be finding a replacement so soon? Yes, the alleged plot states that he’s been given a promotion and therefore wants someone else to fill in for him as the Dragon Warrior, but that doesn’t make sense to me. Why would Po’s new status (as something along the lines of the “Spiritual Leader/Master” of the Valley of Peace) hold him back from being the Dragon Warrior? If there’s something else behind him wanting to leave the role behind, I’m listening, but right now it feels very unbelievable. Why is he doing this so early in his life? He’s been the Dragon Warrior for four or five years at most, why is he throwing in the towel so soon? He’s young and has so much ahead of him, especially after all that he’s done. He’s built prestige and respect over the years and he’s so proud of his role as the Dragon Warrior. I’m confused!

One could make the argument that Po wants to settle down, which I’ve seen a few times on different social sites as a suggestion. However, he has shown no interest in such things in the past. He’s always excited to travel and see new things, so to see such a sudden change in attitude and priorities would likely have to be the result of a drastic occurrence. Po is not giving up his title as the Dragon Warrior, at least not with the way things are now. I’m not necessarily adverse to bold decisions being made in sequels, but this is probably too sharp of a turn for me to be okay with it. 

Is it even possible for Po to no longer hold the title? If we reference what I stated earlier, about the title being not so much a title but rather just Po himself, could we even consider that Po can just spontaneously decide to not be the Dragon Warrior anymore? He was chosen by the universe; can he UNO reverse card the universe? 

So many paragraphs, and I haven’t even gotten around to discussing the villain or the Furious Five. Let’s see how long I can write before my passion-induced rant starts to fizzle out!

In regards to the villain, I’m conflicted. 

On the bright side, I’ve been rooting for a female villain for as long as I’ve been in the fanbase. A female villain could add something really new and fresh to the series, giving fans a new perspective and experience altogether. The only canonical female villains in the KFP universe as of right now are the Wu Sisters, who are some of my personal favorite villains to ever come out of the franchise.

Additionally, rumors suggest that the chameleon can shape-shift. The idea of a shapeshifting villain (who potentially possesses dark magic, or something similar) is admittedly really cool. In an unreleased (unfinished) discussion post, I go into detail regarding the advantages of a manipulative villain. If the chameleon is as manipulative as her shape-shifting powers suggest, she could actually be pretty interesting to watch. Of course, being me, I’d prefer emotional manipulation over anything else, but that’s still a possibility!

In the plot description, it’s stated that the chameleon has the ability to “summon” villains from Po’s past. While it’s been assumed that this is in reference to full on resurrection, there’s still some wiggle room for speculative variation. There are disagreements and conflicting information on whether or not the chameleon can actually revive Po’s former adversaries, as some claim that she has the ability to resurrect the dead (perhaps via dark magic), while others state that she simply takes on their form to mess with Po.

Let’s assume that the chameleon is legitimately able to bring back villains that Po has done away with in previous movies. Isn’t that an incredibly easy way to make it seem like Po is going to experience difficulty in defeating this movie’s opposing force? While I’ll admit that coming up with someone/something that will make Po falter and struggle was never going to be an easy task, especially at this stage, I can’t help but feel as though there’s a bit lacking in the creative department. It’s also a bit insulting, to be honest, because if this new villain has to rely on the reputations and powers of previous villains to put up a fight, then is this a villain worth paying any real mind to? Does she pose any kind of true threat?

Personally, I hope that the whole resurrection theory is false. I don’t think it would be in the best interest of anyone if the past villains were to come back in any way that’s not a flashback (even then, I’m not sure I’d see the point). In all honesty, I thought that the whole point of the villains was that they died and stayed dead. They were defeated by Po once and for all as a testament to the idea of establishing Po's character growth and journey as a person through the bad things he’s able to overcome. It’d be highly contradictory to the messages of the other films if these villains were to suddenly come back.

For a while, there were theories floating around that suggested that Kung Fu Panda 4′s villain would have some significance to Tigress. The thought process behind this follows a “villain formula” of sorts; each movie villain so far has been connected to a main character through that respective character’s past. Tai Lung was Shifu’s failed prodigy; a fallen angel archetype. Shen killed Po’s mother and led a genocide on his people in a feeble and desperate attempt to save himself from his own fate. Kai was Oogway’s former fellow warlord and brother-in-arms, seeking revenge for the betrayal he felt had been enacted upon him.

I am a full-fledged supporter of the next villain having a connection to Tigress. Unfortunately, though, it doesn’t seem likely given the information we currently have. This chameleon, from what we know at this point in time, has absolutely no connection to Po or anyone in the main cast. I’d even go as far as to say that there’s more of a reason to believe the chameleon will have a connection to Chen; mainly because I think that if Chen needs to be integrated into the main cast, that’s the way the writers are going to go. The problem with this, however, is that it doesn’t make that much sense given how significant of a character Tigress has become in the franchise.

Take everything I say with a grain of salt, though, because in truth, we really don’t know that much about our new villain. This chameleon could very well have a connection to Tigress! We won’t know until the time is right, I suppose.

I’ll use Tigress as a segue to talk about the Furious Five, because unlike in the third film and god-forsaken TV shows, they’re actually relevant here! Personally, I think that the Furious Five still have a bit to offer as characters, for found family feels and to act as nostalgic plot devices if for nothing else. I love the five, and while I can understand if the upcoming film's story doesn't call for their involvement as frequently as in KFP 1 and 2, I would still very much appreciate their presence throughout the movie instead of being totally cast aside like in the third movie.

That said, though, I have a different opinion regarding Tigress. She has always stood out as the most significant member of the Furious Five (to both the audience and Po) and has been very impactful to Po and his journey; she was especially important in Kung Fu Panda 2, during which she was shown coming out of her shell and showing something akin to affection towards Po. Their interactions were later described by Guillermo del Toro (who I believe worked on the movie as a creative consultant) as possessing “the hint of a romance.” Whether or not the fourth movie will decide to capitalize on this idea is fully up in the air. It’s been stated by former directors that the theme of romance in KFP would only ever be applied in a comical fashion, but those directors may no longer be involved at all. I’m a Po and Tigress enjoyer, but I’d much rather KFP 4 be a good, solid movie than it being weak and trying to hold itself up with a shallow romantic subplot with Po and Tigress. I would also hate (with the fury of a thousand suns) to see Tigress’s character reduced to that of a love interest; she’s strong, capable, independent, and totally awesome. If she has a larger role in the fourth movie, I’d watch her being a cold-hearted badass a thousand times over before I sit through two hours of her being overtly out-of-character for the sake of a “classic romance” with Po. A relationship between them could work, and I’ll be supportive of it if it’s done well, but it doesn’t and shouldn’t have to happen for the movie to be emotional and impactful and mean something.

I have an unfortunate yet strong suspicion that the Furious Five will be tossed to the curb in this movie, and I really hope I’m wrong, because they’re fun characters that help encapsulate the original feel of the franchise. They’re a key part of what gave Po his beginnings in the world of martial arts, and they’re also the people he desperately wanted to be like throughout his childhood (and young adult years). They’re his best friends, and while I want Po to have adventures of his own, I don’t want his origins to be forgotten in favor of new characters. I want the nostalgia, alright? Is that wrong? No, and if it were, I wouldn’t want to be right. Speaking of long-time characters, what about Shifu? I can’t help but wonder what he’ll be up to during this whole debacle. Meditating, perhaps? I hope nobody in the writers’ room decides it’s Shifu’s time to go, which has been a growing concern of mine since learning of Po’s ambiguous “promotion.”

The movie’s director, Mike Mitchell, has been involved with KFP before, but not to the extent of previous directors. While I know little information about him, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and I’ll maintain that sentiment until the movie releases. A potential (confirmed?) co-director is Stephanie Stine, the director of Raya and the Last Dragon.

Final thoughts, summarized:

The plot is kinda off and contradicts both Po’s character arc and the other movies

A female chameleon is the villain, which is maybe the only aspect of the movie I can get behind

The Furious Five and Shifu may be completely ignored (again)

The whole “passing of the torch” storyline does not work given Po’s situation

Chen’s character doesn’t make sense

I’m not familiar with the director(s) 

If you took the time to read this post, kudos to you. I hope I was able to help you arrange your thoughts regarding this news, because I’m still a bit scatter-brained myself (which is a feeling that I think we can all relate to at the moment). I’ll likely add more to this post over time, whether it be via re-blogs or simple edits. I think of something new to add to this post every few minutes, which I’ve been doing for a few hours now...

Let’s end on a positive note, because I know I was a bit of a downer here:

The title looks pretty cool, I’m not gonna lie. I like the scale texture!

[little-bunny-with-purple-stinger]

I just watched Kung Fu Panda 4, and I feel that it was so close to being a really good movie with a satisfying end to the series, but there were just too many little things holding it back, as well as some inconsistencies during the movie that made no sense for why some characters should've been where they were at certain times and it just felt slightly rushed and a touch too compressed, especially near the end of it all. I'm fine with the idea of passing on the title of Dragon Warrior and stuff, but I feel that it could've been handled better. But you best bet I am agreeing with anyone who says that Li and Mr. Ping are a couple and have gone on at least one date where they kept fumbling around, but that's not why I'm here. The Chameleon. Great design. Great power. Brilliant visuals. But not being able to get into any Kung Fu schools because she's too small? Then what's this little green stick bug here for then?! And this fangless snake that everyone kept making fun of? Or the bird built like a twig?! Literally Tigress is the only one who was really strong from the get go and fit the description The Chameleon was saying could be the only ones who could learn Kung Fu. And where was Oogway? Where was he when spirits kept getting yoinked? And shouldn't Kai be, like, not there? Like, I'm pretty sure he got turned into universe dust by Po, unless I remembered something wrong. Tai Lung was cool though, though I feel like his battle scene was a bit underwhelming for who he is. Made into disappointment when I realized that the lizards were still alive at the end of it. Like, Tai Lung doesn't show mercy. He's more than capable and has killed any who stood in the way of his goal. Of course, I am okay where at the end of the movie he accepted Po as being the right choice in the end. AND WHY ARE THE CRIME LORDS THERE?! THIS IMPLIES THAT THEY DIED AT SOME POINT, BUT WHY WOULD THE CHAMELEON BRING THEM BACK FOR THIS?! WHAT MANNER OF KUNG FU WOULD MAKE THAT WORTH IT?! And also, the thieves guild, what are they doing. They don't act like thieves except when showing that they are, in fact, supposed to be thieves. They're just a bunch of psychopaths that live in the sewers with how much they talk about and show how much they enjoy violence. I would've loved to see more interactions and reconciliations between Zhen(I only learned that was her name from the credits) and the pangolin dude(forgot his name). Like, that would've been so nice to see rather than "Hey there, we're going to kill you now" "Oh no, don't do that. Why kill now when you can do that later" "Oh, darn, you make a good point there. I shall leave you alone now and help you even though I want to kill you." Like, come on! The soundtrack was also kinda crazy at times, the last song felt really out of place with what was happening and the montage felt a touch unnecessary, which left a slightly bad taste in my mouth to wrap the movie up with. But for as much as I am complaining about it, it had a really solid concept and idea that was perfect for wrapping the series up. Po passing on the torch to someone else while becoming the new leader for his people, Zhen learning to trust and rely on another person was a beautiful thing to see that I feel was done pretty good. I loved the pangolin's design, and The Chameleon's transformation animations were so fluid and disturbing each time until the ultimate form one that felt kinda weird when you saw it moving and like just a dragon, but the Po form and execution was so scary and well done. And Mr. Ping and Li were a joy to watch bond and talk and bicker like a married couple(which they definitely are). Overall, it was so close to being a great movie with just too many small things bogging it down.

When I tried to talk to my brother about this we spent two hours complaining about the Project Monarch universe and how a lot of stuff that happens in it is dumb and how so many ideas and things are thrown out of the window. And where's Mothra? Where's my girl Mothera? Godzilla in that universe is nature's wrath, and apparently Mothera is supposed to be the nice part of nature or something like that it's been a while since I watched the movies okay, but like, where is she? I know she died or something, but a big part of what makes Mothera Mothera is that she is constantly being reborn, so where the freak is she?! My brother had a lot of other complaints that I forgot already, but I have to agree with him. The Monarch universe, while interesting concepts and other things that it started out with were good, has thrown far too many things out of the second story window and rewritten so many facets of itself and only ever implied, never saying or showing many things, implied so much that you would need a bulletin board to explain everything. And I only just learned tonight that there is an official Monarch series that has so much freaking stuff in it that explains so much that they never really advertised. And who is this angry red monkey playing with bones? I haven't yet seen the new Godzilla vs Kong movie, and I don't plan to, but who is he and why is he there?

AND WHERE IS MOTHERA?!

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. Please let me know your thoughts and feelings in the comments and tags and whatever else I may not know of since I am still new to this land of Tumblair, and have a lovely rest of your day.