#why did they end it with mizi and not ivan

[sayumikemi13]

BIGGEST SPOOK THIS OCTOBER???

BOO!

Till is dead

Vivinos gave us both the trick and the treat, New Update, Hot Outfits, and Dead Till, had to rub him dying in our faces..

Watch Alien Stage y'all, I need someone to cope with.

[mizinthropy]

HELLO YES I TOTALLY AGREE THIS IS THE BEST GODDAMN TAKE ON LUKA i am going a little insane

8:48

Always thinking of my tags I did on that one post

(under tags cuz of abuse/mentioned distorted eating, and cannibalism for the lyrics in the second picture)

[sadokasochism]

For me, the most heartbreaking aspect of Ivan is that the poor clueless bastard didn't have the tools to express his affection in any way that didn't involve violence or manipulation, or weren't too inscrutable, quiet, or unseen to be picked up by Till.

I definitely interpret Ivan as autistic for several reasons, a big one being their Segyein teacher's notes about him:

It's just. Classic ND behaviour to me.

Not only does expressing emotion and communicating the way other kids do not come naturally to Ivan, but it's not as if he's been given a great example of coping with this from the Segyein.

Ivan managed to mask in a way that made him popular with other students, and got him in the good graces of their captors. He did everything expected of him to survive and thrive in this environment.

Then he meets Till, inscrutable and very different to the other kids, just like Ivan is. Except, Till doesn't mask. He doesn't change or try to endear himself to their captors, and he doesn't bend to anyone, no matter how much he is hurt and punished for it.

This is a new situation for Ivan, and he's never had anything to compare his feelings to. He also can't figure out how to communicate with Till, every interaction, no matter how well meaning, seems to end in failure.

I bring your attention to the cheer up comic, and how, again, autistic this interaction feels:

There could be many reasons why Ivan chose to say what he did, but to me it feels like ND bluntness not being received well. And that's fair! From Till's perspective Ivan is being a jerk for no good reason.

Instead of responding with glee towards Till laying him out (as we see from Ivan when they're a bit older), Ivan justs seems... really confused. Like he didn't expect that statement to upset Till that much, and he didn't expect Till to respond in the way he did. Everything was fine a second ago, what went wrong?

Then, Ivan uses the phrase he learned from Till in an attempt to self sooth. It might have been the first example of comfort after an injury/hurt he had ever seen, given how he defaults to it. And it was from Till trying to cheer up a flower.

This also shows some of Till's blindspots. He has grown up having to be vigilant, because violence and hurt have been a core part of his upbringing. This leads to anything he doesn't immediately, clearly understand being perceived as a threat or a slight, and so he reacts violently to Ivan's statement.

I'll also draw your attention to this comic where, as far as we know, Ivan is simply stating a true fact in a blunt manner:

In my interpretation, these types of interactions keep adding up, and Ivan is grasping at straws the whole time, trying to be closer to Till and failing every time.

Eventually, the only surefire way to get Till's attention is to piss him off, provoke him, manufacture scenarios to talk to him. I'm not excusing this behaviour, but I understand where Ivan could be coming from, from the perspective of both an emotionally immature/stunted child and/or an ND child.

Despite how much they fight and bicker, at every moment it really mattered, Ivan was there for Till. It was always Ivan coming to free him, to take off his collar or gag, and it was Ivan who led their escape.

Ivan couldn't leave Till behind when he went back for Mizi. Even with the confirmation that Till would choose Mizi over Ivan every time, Ivan couldn't leave him.

The miscommunication goes two ways though. It's insane to think that Till didn't care about Ivan at all. They were close as kids, and I doubt Till ever forgot about the escape he gave up.

We have the graduation messages, where Ivan is able to write something that could be reasonably interpreted as affectionate or fond towards Till.

Meanwhile, Till's message-

If we're being charitable with our interpretations, we can say this was Till's way of saying 'of course I remember you' and attempting to communicate that Ivan HAD left a lasting impact on him.

However, how could any reasonable person be expected to get THAT out of 'you stole my fucking pencil'? Ivan could have taken this one of two ways:

1) Omg he remembers me 🥰

2) he leans into his 'i will never be loved back' bias and thinks that Till really doesn't care about him at all

Who the hell knows what goes through that weird little brain of his. But given how Round 6 went, and what Ivan had to say in the confession comic, he obviously didn't think his impact was significant enough.

Then Alien Stage happens, and in Round 3 Ivan is FINALLY communicating his feelings in a way that is vulnerable and might even have a chance of being understood as love and yearning!

Till is unconscious through it until the very end.

Then in the next round, Mizi goes missing, and Till can't care about anything anymore.

Ivan finds him after the private performance, takes off his gag, and just holds him. Again, Till is unconscious for all of this.

Then, in Round 6, not only is Till distraught from the disappearance of Mizi, but he's given no time to process what the fuck is going on before Ivan is dead at his feet. Till might have finally had a chance to really understand where Ivan was coming from, how he really felt all this time, and Ivan DIES.

And still, Ivan's most transparent act of affection? It's delivered with violence. He's kissing a distraught Till who tries to push him away, and neither of them are happy. He puts his hands around Till's neck, not really hurting him, but it's enough to look convincing for the cameras, and it's enough for Till to go limp and wait for death. Ivan's final loving act is to give Till a soft look with blood pouring out of his mouth, that Till still does not see, and then let go before falling to the ground.

It's just a collection of failures. We see from Ivan that he truly loved Till, made a lot of selfless decisions for his sake, was filled with so much longing and affection, but he just couldn't get it across in a way that doesn't seem fucking deranged from an outsider's perspective. And when he DID manage to communicate his feelings more clearly, it was to a Till that was unconscious, or too distracted/dense/traumatised to see Ivan's actions as ones of love.

There's no guarantee that Till would have reciprocated even if Ivan had managed to communicate his feelings in a healthier way, but there was at least a CHANCE. At least Ivan could have gotten some closure, even if he was rejected.

Instead Ivan died thinking he was completely unloved by the person who he cared about more than anything else, and his last ditch effort to make Till understand was deeply flawed and uncomfortable.

If these kids had grown up any other way, maybe they could have had a chance. Unfortunately, the world they were in didn't equip them to not hurt eachother in their attempts to grow closer.

[ayakashiz]

Alien Stage R6 Analysis

VERY LONG compilation of my interpretations, impressions and unanswered questions about Round 6 of Alien Stage. I just wanted to write this to put all my thoughts in one place so I can finally rest (in pieces). TW for mentions of suic*de/suic*dal ideation.

The most debated is no doubt the kiss/choking scene and Ivan’s motivation for doing so in the first place. 

I think from the very beginning, even before R3, Ivan was planning to go out with a bang. That’s the immediate impression I got from the comic where he mocks/criticizes Sua for planning to “selfishly” die for Mizi and feel good being the “heroine” rather than having to deal with the trauma of being the one left behind. 

(I'm too lazy to edit the whole translation as of now, but might do so when I have more time.)

Ivan tells her how he’s “relieved that he’s not the only who’s that twisted” = He’s comparing himself to Sua. He thinks they’re both ‘twisted’ for planning to do the same thing, but from Ivan’s perspective, he at least isn’t fooling himself into thinking his motives are altruistic. He tasted the feeling of being ‘abandoned’, and he knows he doesn’t want to experience it twice. 

He also probably thought that his death wouldn’t be as impactful on Till as Sua’s death on Mizi, and therefore his own selfishness is more justified in his mind. This most likely plays a role in how cold and biting his words are towards Sua –he’s jealous of that difference between them.

I hadn’t noticed this detail the first time I watched the video: Not only did Till look absolutely miserable and defeated from the get go, but he completely gave up and stopped singing at some point. If you look at the video, we can hear the audio that was supposed to be sung, but Till is quiet and still, and THIS is the moment Ivan chooses to act.

Although they do not show the votes at that particular moment, stopping mid song would have definitely taken a hit to Till’s score as it’s basically forfeiting –a huge contrast to his previous match where he didn’t even let his opponent utter a single line.

In response, Ivan doesn’t just walk towards him but throws his microphone to the ground, explicitly forfeiting as well in order to then pull a drastic move like it was foreshadowed in his interview.

The kiss itself imo was the less calculated/arguably unplanned part. He could have just choked Till from the start and it would have gotten him the same if not better results (since it was the act of violence against another contestant that ultimately lowered his score and got the counter to stop). 

That kiss was authentic and for himself entirely, both as a last desperate attempt at conveying his feelings and a selfish way of leaving a strong impression on Till that he wouldn’t be able to forget (a hypocritical move going back to how he criticized Sua). In that sense, I don’t think Ivan was seriously trying to take Till down with him –although that’s up to interpretation. As I see it, that would contradict his actions up until that point.

Till was VERY CLEARLY suic*dal (once again, he gave up singing), and after the initial shock of Ivan squeezing his neck, this fiery, rebellious man who is KNOWN to fight tooth and nail, simply closed his eyes and relaxed his body, waiting for Ivan to end him without fighting at all. 

The thing is, no matter how suic*dal one may be, the fighting response when being actually suffocated is automatic and completely involuntary. People mention there not being marks on Till’s neck but I think the most telling sign is him not going red, not squirming, not struggling or holding onto Ivan’s wrists (again, expected involuntary responses), his eyes not watering or having blurry vision while we see Ivan from his POV, not opening his mouth even a little to gasp for air and not coughing or gasping either when he was finally released.

Ivan definitely had him in a strong grip, might have even made him a bit lightheaded, but the reason why Till could look so relaxed in the first place is because he had given up and was waiting for Ivan to go ahead. If his closed eyes and limp posture were due to the choking itself, he would have fallen or stumbled when being let go, but we see that his eyes open as soon as he feels Ivan’s hands slipping away and he looks shocked instead.

So then what was Ivan’s motivation, if not to kill him? Yes, there’s the already discussed plan to get himself disqualified. But Ivan glances at the screen only a few seconds after he starts the choking, confirming that the voting had in fact stopped with Till having the higher score. He then goes for one last ‘goodbye’ kiss before continuing to choke him, holding his grip even as he starts getting shot.

We see a closeup of him, his eyes and hands trembling, looking more frustrated/emotional than in Till’s first POV where he looks rather stoic. It makes me think that the reason he refused to let go was simply because he wanted Till to look at him. 

They strongly imply throughout the whole video that being annoying or mean or violent was the only way Ivan learnt how to make Till focus his full attention on him, but now even as he’s threatening his life, even as he himself is dying, even after that kiss, Till wouldn’t look. 

It took him getting fatally wounded and realizing there was no turning back to reach a state of acceptance. His bittersweet expression here reminds me A LOT of his smile after Till runs back during the meteor scene, although this one seems a lot more tender. He seems to accept the fact that Till will never love him back, but Ivan cannot stop loving him anyways and he at least got to put his feelings out there. 

(The parallels here are driving me insane. The way there is light in his eyes in both instances as he looks at Till even while 'losing him' in a way. The struggle between wanting to posses him yet realizing his free spirit/strong will is part of what he loves about him. That last genuine gaze from a character who spent his whole life putting on a mask. Yes I am very normal about this.)

Until then, Ivan’s more tender/vulnerable side is only shown while Till is unconscious or looking away.

(That soft, loving nuzzle to Till's face has me in SHAMBLES.)

But ironically, it’s only when he releases him and shows him this vulnerability without a mask that Till really looks at him for the first time. I’d go as far as to say that it was this moment, and not the kiss, that finally made Till understand Ivan’s feelings. And in turn Ivan gets that little shot of euphoria as he falls to the ground.

Going back to the survivor’s guilt… I can only imagine it’ll go completely downhill for Till from now on. Not only does he already think Mizi might be dead and is angry at himself that he couldn’t save her (as seen in the shot where he punches his own picture), but now he has most likely realized that Ivan intentionally fumbled their match for his sake –which would lead to the realization that he was the reason why Ivan chose to run back to Anakt Garden after him in the first place, and that choice ultimately lead to his death. 

Even though we see them fighting a lot as children through the videos and comics, it’s also implied that they were always together and they shared some quiet moments –the “Mizi didn’t play with you, I played with you” art, all that art of the main 4 playing together, those bright smiles as they ran away together during the meteor shower scene and Till looking so guilty when he let go of his hand. 

There are a few cute doodles of them for those who are on Patreon, and some more lore in the Anakt Garden kit –so they were at the very least friends in their own way (as best as 2 very traumatized and abused children could), constantly fighting and making up. Which God… it shows that despite appearances Till must have actually had the patience of a saint when they were little lmao.

But what I’m trying to say is that despite what Ivan may have thought, his death will most definitely have an impact on Till and the narrative going forward, and I’m excited to find out how that reflects in the final round (if the resistance doesn’t manage to get back up in time to disrupt it). 

Despite how much I adored (and SUFFERED WITH) this round, I still have MANY questions that were left unanswered, both about Ivan and Till, and the lore in general, and I wonder if there’ll be time to answer them all, as I can imagine the next MV will be focused on Luka’s perspective, the only one we haven’t been presented with.

One of the most pressing questions being: What’s the relationship between Ivan and that alien dog? Did he tame it? It is implied that it was Ivan who somehow led Till and Mizi to it in the first place in that one scene, and if so I wonder what his motivation was? Normally jealousy would be the first thing to come to mind but Ivan wasn’t interested in Till until AFTER he saw him stand up to the beast to protect Mizi, so it couldn’t have been that. 

This is something that was also teased on Patreon and I was looking forward to the explanation on the MV, but it never came, and now Ivan is dead, so the next video will most likely not be too concerned with his backstory any longer. (Which, also, I was really curious about his life in the slums before being captured, auctioned and brought to Anakt, as that would have played a huge role in his twisted personality/dark tendencies –once again teased on Patreon very briefly, but not explained beyond that frame of him looking famished.)

The second is, how is Ivan able to open Till’s collar/muzzle so easily? This is a question I’ve been having since R3, but chalked it up to Ivan being sneaky and figuring out some kind of code to the cell door and that somehow automatically deactivating the locks on the restraints… or something. But with how many times he does it in R6 with just a touch it’s very clear that that isn’t the case and also imo they’re trying to point this out as a significant detail. 

It may turn out that I’m just looking too much into it, but I find it really curious and interesting. Not only is he the only child without a collar (Mizi and Sua still had them despite being just as well behaved as him), but he seems to be the only one able to take them off –or at least Till’s. I’m pretty sure the children wouldn’t normally be able to remove them by themselves as it seems to be a control mechanism. So how can Ivan? This might explain a lot about how they were able to escape, and also add a layer of tragedy knowing that Ivan could have chosen to escape by himself at any point, but refused to leave Till behind.

Last but not least there’s all the human experimentation Till was subjected to, which was the main topic of the teaser and we see the same images show up in the very beginning of the MV. They help emphasize Till’s suffering and distressed state of mind, but then they’re never expanded on or mentioned at all for the rest of the video. That’s a huge piece of lore that I also hope isn’t forgotten.

I mean, I really doubt it will. So far VIVINOS & co. have been incredible with their ability to hold back information and release it at the moment where it’s the most impactful, which is refreshing to see. So I trust we’ll get some answers eventually. 

Really curious to know why they would experiment on an ALNST contestant in the first place, especially one that is undoubtedly talented and described as a musical genius (aka. has good odds of doing well on stage and earning the segyein revenue). A very plausible theory might just be that he was just getting constantly drugged to make him less of a threat/more submissive –like we see on the karaoke room scene. But it might as well be something bigger.

As for my expectations for the next round… I’m still just trying to process this one, as you can see by the sheer amount of text. There are many things left to address, and the Hyuna/Luka confrontation has been strongly teased. I wonder also, if the round goes on without interruption, what would Luka’s strategy against Till be? Would he go for provocation again, trying to imitate Mizi/hint to his recent trauma with Ivan? It probably won’t be that simple.

I mean, VIVINOS has been known for subverting our expectations with each round:

The ominous/callous framing that was given to Ivan by the end of Black Sorrow and the art that followed, making us suspicious of his intentions, only to have him die for love. The lifeless/doll-like framing given to Luka, vulnerable and cornered by flashing lights, only to have him be the cruelest/most calculating one (that we know so far). The rebellious, rowdy, willing to do anything to survive framing given to Till, only to have his fighting spirit completely break and willingly waiting to die by Ivan’s hands. The naive, complacent and passive image given to Mizi, only to have her snap, beat the shit out of Luka and join the rebellion –and with how things are going (and her being the protagonist) I wouldn’t be surprised if she, and not Hyuna (the one who was framed as the most strong and reliable, giving us a false sense of security going into R6), is who will have to try and rescue Till (and Luka???).

There are still a ton of things that keep me awake at night about R6 –my favorite character dying aside. I could talk about it forever, but I’ll leave it here. 

Feel free to share your theories, delusions, interpretations or any detail I might have missed with me. God knows we need group therapy after this as the cute chibi keychains can only heal us so far. Thanks for reading my rambles if you made it this far. :’)

[sword-bunny]

Unpopular opinion: I don't think Luka is actually that bad

(Casual reminder first that all of the unwilling participants of this death match are slaves who were essentially raised from childhood to compete in Alien Stage. None of them are competing by choice, and this is Luka's second time being forced through this nightmare, and he will probably be made to do it a third time.)

"But he's enjoying this!"

Is he, though?

I don't feel like this moment gets talked about enough. Obviously we don't get to see the actual match so we can't say anything about it, but Luka kissing the dead girl's hand afterwards was important enough that some of the very limited time this series has was used to show it.

Here, he's not smiling, he's not making a show out of it. The show is already over. His back is to the audience, and he isn't even on stage. He lived, she died, and to me this read as a gesture of respect.

"What about him purposefully invoking the images of Sua and Ivan to make Mizi and Till lose their shit?"

Yeah, he definitely did do that, and I'll get back to that. But take a look at his face during his duet with Mizi:

It's shockingly different from the smug, smiling face he has for the rest of the song. From the background behind him, we can tell that Mizi is blocking the view of his face from the audience.

In comparison, the bit where he rolls his eyes, he isn't even looking at her. He's looking at the audience, making a show of his lofty condescension.

Look at the way he's portrayed in the "promotional footage" we see in Top 3. He's the "Ruler of the Stage", the elegant personification of victory. In other words, it's a stage persona.

We got this new expression in Blink Gone, and I did think he was laughing at first! But why would he be hiding that? He certainly never has before. There would be no point, he'd be playing it up, even. But the more I look at it, the more I think he's covering up something else.

Luka has outlived a lot of his opponents, some of whom very likely were people he grew up with, and I think he's starting to crack.

This leads us back to the tactics he uses to win.

Luka is undeniably ruthless! You could definitely make an argument that he goes beyond what's necessary to win.

But remember, he's trying to survive. I don't think he can reasonably be called a sadist for trying his best not to die, even if his methods are underhanded. Is he a good person? I wouldn't even try to argue that. Is he a bad person? I genuinely don't think so.

The situation he's been forced into is unimaginably cruel, and I genuinely believe it doesn't make someone a bad person to try to survive, even if it means someone else doesn't.

Imagine a modified version of the trolley problem: you and a person you do not know are each tied to separate tracks. You get to choose whether the train kills you or the other person. In this situation where you are not there because you want to be or because you're experiencing any kind of consequences for your actions, is it morally acceptable to choose not to die?

Anyways, that's my rant about why it's been getting on my nerves to see Luka constantly getting called a sadistic psychopath. Feel free to make counterarguments, just please try to be chill about it if you do✌️

Edit: I totally forgot about the Alien Stage promo video, which pretty clearly shows that Luka is having a Less Than Stellar time (pun intended)

This is the first shot we ever get to see of Luka, and I've left the lyrics on because I think they're pretty important since Luka is the contestant that's been in this situation the longest. He won and it's still not over. I'm not surprised he feels like it won't ever end!

Then there's this shot. Hooooooo boy this shot makes me feel a lot of things. It's so clear that Luka is even less than a pet, barely more than a toy to his "fans".

Finally, there's this bit where he hides his face behind his arms like he can't bear to be looked at any longer.

Your honor I'm so normal about him I swear

[sunfish5149]

After rewatching round 6 for the nth time I just realized Till Win is reflected in Ivan's blood and OH. MY BMFUCCKIGBGOOOODDDD I HATE THEM I HATE THEM O HATE TJEM they could never make me hate you ivan.

Till standing next to Ivan while his body is still cooling feels awfully a lot like how a person would mourn at their loved one's grave, but I think that there's a lot more going on inside Till's head, and this just saddens me. I would crumble personally if I was him, because to me, Ivan's death also feels like a slap to the face I guess? Because until now his crush on Mizi allowed him to be selfish, to believe that once she was gone, he would be left all alone. He gave up his will to live, accepted defeat without further struggle, because he idolized and idealized Mizi to a point where his whole life depended on her existence. Perhaps he does have a crush on Mizi, but I fully believe that it partly stems from the love and adoration he saw Mizi offer to Sua, almost like "what if I could have that too?". He could not bear to part with the love and salvation he saw within Mizi, to the point where he gave away his freedom just to be near her, just for the chance that maybe he'd finally know what it feels like to be wanted, to be loved. He selfishly cut away at all the bad parts in this picture that he did not want to see, the worthless parts, the painful ones, the suffering he has endured at the hands of his captors, and ended up cutting away at the people that might've cared for him, that still do, until nothing but Mizi remained, who he foolishly believed to be able to offer him what he so desperately wanted. He made himself believe that he was alone, up until he truly, truly was. Until when can a man doggedly chase after one person until the death of what I dare call " the closest thing to family he has ever had" drop like flies around him? Round 6 offers us an answer.

I believe that part of the reason why he stood there as Ivan bled out is him processing that someone actually cared about him, loved the parts of Till that he saw to be loveless. It also feels like a wake-up call, the cut up picture that he has constructed his life around has finally been proven as the lie it is. He can no longer be selfish enough to close his eyes on reality, on his obsessive idealization for someone who will never, who cannot save him, on the fact that Mizi already loves somebody else so dearly, because the love he was searching for in someone, to be returned, was right next to him all along.

Too bad he only noticed Ivan when he was bleeding out at his feet. This is the closest thing to salvation Till will ever get from someone, to love so dearly one would give away their life without hesitation, to throw away their freedom, to not cut away at the corners of this picture, but to see it and love it and do everything to preserve it. Should Till look at such a picture, he would find the pieces of paper he has cut of himself which he believed to be loveless, reflected back at him in that puddle of blood. (I wrote this part fully relying on the muscle memory of my keyboard because my tears were deeply obstructing my vision)

This sacrifice will either ruin Till or give him motivation to live and the tenacity to fight back and free himself from the prison he has willingly walked in, and to finally accept that Mizi is a lesbiab and a ferocious grieving woman kisser. oh my god.

Edit: I JUST REALIZED MIZI ALSO IDOLIZES SUA THE SAME WAY TILL DOES WITH MIZI I HATE THEM I HATE TJEM J HATWHENM

Edit 2: this rant is lowkey outdated because first of all, I feel like I insulted Till's love for Mizi. Just as Ivan loved Till for his tenacity and fighting spirit, and whatever else he saw in that wet cat of a man, so did Till love Mizi, for her innocent happiness and love that poured out of her. She was the only one out of them who was blissfully unaware to the pain and suffering of the humans, and the shit the aliens put the rest through, the fact that Till was attracted to her partly because of that makes me feel miserable. I do wonder what he will think, should he survive and see just how much Mizi has changed, how she has grown to fight for what she wants to protect.

I also feel that I have underestimated Till's relation to Ivan, he truly did care for him, Ivan was just too cryptic to express himself

[muchanmocha]

According to the information released about the segyein, Guardian Shine respects Mizi's choice in whether or not she wants to participate in Alien Stage. Looking at this tidbit again, new questions popped up for me. More specifically — one question.

Why didn't Sua convince Mizi not to participate?

Alright let's back up a bit.

What do we know about Alien Stage and its relationship with the Anakt Garden kids?

From the magazine interview and old stream commentary, we know they've been brainwashed from childhood to believe participation in Alien Stage is an honor. They're fully aware that losing means death, but that itself is taught to be yet another privilege.

Mizi vs Sua, Ivan, and Till

It's generally accepted that among our cast, Mizi is the most sheltered one — the one shielded the most from the horrific side of the post-alien apocalypse world, whereas due to the abuse from their respective guardians, Sua, Ivan, and Till do not have such a rosy outlook.

Sua and Ivan in particular appear to be jaded and much more in tune with their place in this system. So if they didn't buy into the propaganda, if they were fully aware of the implications of death and the worthlessness of receiving such an "honor" on stage, why didn't they convince Mizi to step out of it?

Ivan's reason is easy — simply, why would he?

But Sua? Why... wouldn't she? Surely she would want Mizi to avoid Alien Stage at all costs, when she is not as naive as to believe they'd be able to tie all the way to the finals?

Let's take another look at Sua's interview responses.

Sua and Mizi both share a dream, and in a world as small and enclosed as theirs, that dream is enough to be their everything.

Mizi may have had a chance to opt out of AS, but Sua doesn't. Her guardian, Nigeh, has always intended for her to participate, going as far as to build up her fanbase before Season 50 even started to tip the odds in favor of her victory. Sua has been prepared her whole life for Alien Stage, whether it ends in her victory, or her death.

She goes in knowing her life will likely end there.

Perhaps it was to indulge in the one selfishness of her short life — in the dream she and Mizi cherished above all.

Perhaps it was because she has absolute, unshakable confidence in Mizi taking the throne of Season 50 for herself.

Perhaps it was because a small part of her believed in Mizi's optimism — that they really can make it to the top together.

I think all of these possibilities are valid interpretations of what may have gone on inside Sua.

But here's a thought —

Sua, like Mizi, was unfamiliar with the true nature of death.

Sua's loss was Mizi's first, intimate encounter with death. Death was supposed to be a glorious thing, a blessed thing on Alien Stage.

It is not.

It's gruesome, and ugly, and she can still feel the hot blood splatter on her.

Anakt Garden is toted as a kindergarten that can provide your pet-humans with the perfect environment to thrive, looking after your pet-human's health not only physically, but psychologically!

Sua, like Mizi, has been raised in such a curated environment. Even under Nigeh's care, she was simply one of many dolled up pet-humans. Whether she was taking lessons in Anakt Garden, or left to sit in the corner in her ill-fitting doll outfit, we have not seen any opportunities for Sua to come in contact with "death." (Ivan, on the other hand, came from the slums. He may be the only one of the four who was intimately acquainted with death.)

Hence, I propose — Mizi was not the only one who went in without actually grasping the concept. Perhaps Sua too, while having an inkling of what's to come, did not truly understand what death entails either.

(But yeah possibility number 1263 why Sua didn't tell Mizi not to do the murder survival show)

-

Edit 10.02.24 — Debunked by this comic

[dropswand]

MIZI IN ROUND 7 MY BELOVED

She is Till's ray of hope on this round. He resigned himself to dying, he gave up practically. Choked in regret and misery, he was alone- Mizi was missing, likely dead and is dead.

The way his eyes light up ans he regains vitality. He was overwhelmed and felt truly alone, like in Rouns 6 he resigned hinself to dying. But this time, it felt like he was mentally at the brink too, because of round 5 and 6.

Seeing Mizi was like a wake up call to him- a spark and miracle. The push he needed to snap put of it.

He loves Mizi.

It may not be reciprocated, romantically, but the care is mutual.

The round is practically over though, but Till has regained his spark- the same spark that makes him able to fight aginst aliens and win for a few seconds before they put him on a leash again.

And Luka realises this.

Till is driven by emotions, and in the blink of an eye can drastically change actions and make multiple moves when motivated and charged.

This scene shows how Mizi and Till are eachothers final hopes.

This round is called Final, not for it being the end of this alien stage- not with out special guests here. But it's the end of what these 2 jad left.

Alien stage is cruel, and it presented multiple instances of false hope. It repeats again and again.

With tbe aliens believing Ivan would win, until he gave it up and in a blink was gone.

With Mizi and Sua beleiving they could tie, and the brief second they felt they did, until in a blink Mizi got 1 more point and Sua was gone.

For Hyuna, who once had both her brother and Luka one moment and seemingly the next lost it all, and by the hands of someone she trusted. Evrrything she had, gone seemingly in a blink.

Hope is fleeting in alien stage. And I feel like it's why the things in the back are also temporary means of happiness shown repeatedly- such as the shooting stars Ivan enjoys and finds peace in, and the flower crown that had its own background story in the mvs with Mizi and Till. Thsy taper off and die or pass eventually. But they're watched carefully by wide eyes.

It repeated, that joy and hope lost in the matter of seconds.

Blink, gone.

Except, Mizi and Till didn't blink. They watched, eyes wide and focused, and perhaps its thar focus and consumation of hope and emotion that doomed them to barely meet eachothers hands and escape the shot in the crowd.

There is no hope, in a cruel alien stage.

And it's ironic that as always, Till feels like he's won for a few seconds when acting against the aliens, only to lose to them a moment later. This time it's permanent.

[tillyaoi]

Why I think Till is alive

complitation of stuff i noticed + stuff i saw on twitter that did make sense

#1. It just doesn't make sense. From the main four, we've seen ivan and sua and mizi's perspective on most things, mostly Ivan. but till?? NONE. the only thing we get from him is mizi flashbacks. I know mizi's the main MAIN character but till surviving until round 7 is pretty main character energy too. so it just doesn't make sense why they'd kill him off just like that. also. round 6. yeah, his best friend died for him so if he really is dead then ivan just died for nothing.

#2. In the all-in (till ver) album cover, he's the only one shown with another color in his art. and knowing vivimeng this IS a very important piece. cause all of the anniversary album covers have consistent patterns, all of them are just one color. except Till. not even HYUNA the og rebel has it. — and the 2nd color is red. which usually means or shows 'rebelling' in all of alien stage. Also. The red tape is covering where he got shot, which is also where his branding is. this could be a sign that he's getting revived or is just severely injured and is not ACTUALLY dead.

#3. In his flashback when he "died", he was with mizi. of course he would remember mizi at his final moments, she was the last person he saw and he loved her. and in that flashback, the two of them were hiding from aliens. but he had many moments with mizi as shown in the alien stage friday official arts. he could've remembered other ones but why THAT specifically? BECAUSE! it could symbolize them hiding the fact that till is alive from the aliens.

#4. AFTER that scene, it shows till dying on mizi's lap. it zooms out and we can see that till's leg is still up even if his arm already lost consious. (there was also xylophone music symbolizing till's heart beat, it stopped when his arm dropped) So if he was already dead and lost consious, his leg would also fall over cause it DOES take effort and strength to do that.so basically what im saying is he's still alive. maybe they had a plan and he faked his death.

"but their microphones can monitor their heartbeat." yeah. which leads me to no 5. #5. @pixelifiedcation's post talking about how till's microphone fell off when he was on mizi's lap, which was the end of the round so they wouldn't know if till really was alive. giving them the chance to fake his death

#6 now this the thing i noticed immediately while watching the premiere. if you rewatch all of the rounds and skip to the end, you'll see the screen where they show who the winner of the round is and who the loser is, the loser's light always fades out first before they show who the winner is fighting with next. ALL rounds except 7. they showed luka being the winner BEFORE till's light faded out. and it faded out SLOWER and even glitched, the other rounds just straight up faded out. This shows us that the aliens probably didn't know if till was alive or not since his earpiece wasn't connected.

#7 this ones just my opinion but tills death was kinda anti climatic like dont get me wrong i loved this round but its like they just brushed over his death and then showed us luka's reaction to seeing hyuna.

anyways, till is alive

[polycharismas]

oh right remember when i said something about how i wanted a round focused entirely on representing how little the aliens understand the humanity in the participants and simply use them as a means of entertainment. this round fucking DID IT. THEY FUCKING DID IT. a comment on how ultimately meaningless all of their lives actually are when its not with the very few people they had growing up. that at the end of the day they were born raised and left to be nothing else but a spectacle. luka understood this at such an early age and thats why he didnt lose. but till's love was ultimately what led to his demise. ivan didnt want him to care about his death but he did. because till loved him. and till reached out for mizi's hand also because of his love. ultimately forgetting that the most important strategy to survive alien stage is to leave out any humanity for the sake of entertainment. in this world there's nothing for anyone who dares have hope.

[alltheothercoolnamesaretake-blog]

Why I think Till will be rescued before Round 7 (and why Ivan might survive)

Till WILL NOT compete against Luka. At this point, he's too weak of an opponent to even stand against him.

INSTEAD, Hyuna will be the one to compete against Luka. First of all, Hyuna and Luka are one of the main partnerships in Alien Stage. Sua and Mizi have already competed against each other, and now Ivan and Till.

Having Till compete against Luka has nothing inherently interesting in it. Luka with Mizi had ties together because of their longing for their respective partners-Hyuna and Sua. Luka was also established there to be extremely dangerous and manipulative, making him a genuine threat.

What would a Till and Luka matchup do, except be a miserable beat down that would end in Till's death?

At this point, Till has already lost all of his fire, and it's doubtful he'd be able to get it back. If the matchup happened, I feel like it would be too easy of a win for Luka.

HOWEVER, we can see that Hyuna and the gang are once again at Alien Stage. (or at least I think they are) Hyuna is already injured, and it seems like they've been found out. I think that Hyuna will tell the others to leave her behind and have Mizi lead the mission to save Till. This would be a great moment for Mizi's character arc, showing that she has fully come into her own.

Judging by the fact that there also seems to be time between each round (based on the Karaoke scene where Till is being forced to sing My Clematis), it lends more credence to the idea that they would want to do the rescue now instead of later even though Hyuna is hurt.

((This could allow for Ivan to possibly be rescued too, since it doesn't seem like he was hit anywhere vital. All the gunshots are mostly at his back. It's the future, there's probably good medicine))

Also, Round 7 is the final round of the entire show. What other chance would there be for a Hyuna and Luka matchup?

I think that in the next video, we will see the rescue scene play out and in the end see Hyuna's picture replacing Till on the scoreboard. They are forced to leave her behind, and Hyuna will finally be able to confront Luka over what he did.

Edit:

NOT ONLY THAT, WE CAN ALSO SEE HER IN WHAT IS MEANT TO BE THE TRAILER FOR ALIEN STAGE!!!

She’s handcuffed and in some sort of alien compound. Her clothes also look very similar to what she’s wearing in Round 6.

Some of the most damming evidence is that we also see a shot of her in a special performing outfit holding a microphone! She’s also right next to Luka, showing how she will be his opponent.

Ultimately, she’s the best opponent because Luka will be unwilling to hurt her. It’s also a great way to further explore their shared backstories as well.

Can’t wait for Round 7!!!

[mirjtsu]

About ROUND 7: Ivan was both right and wrong...

This is about my fresh thoughts on ALNST ROUND 7, so if you haven't watched it yet I hope you do before continuing reading since there'll be spoilers ahead.

I'll keep it short, because I still need to process the whole thing and maybe I will change my mind in the future (I also need to rewatch it a few times).

On one side, when I say "Ivan was wrong", I mean that, as we saw, his memory became a haunting one for Till, to the point that Luka could exploit it to make him loose focus and cool. He wasn't someone Till didn't care for: we don't have his pov about their relationship, but it's clear that Till feels guilty and hurt by what happened. So yes, in the end Ivan was wrong, since he ultimately contributed to Till's downfall and became the last thing he wished to be to Till, another trauma (I still have to rewatch it and see if Mizi's arrival too contributed to Till's defeat, as he was probably blinded by the happiness he felt seeing his loved one - I just checked, I think he stopped singing at last... argh, I can't!).

On the other side, when I say "Ivan was also right", I'm referring to what happened after Luka made resurface Till's still fresh and traumatic memories from R6. The moment Till spotted Mizi in the croud, his motivation to go on living came back and he was finally able to smile and be genuinely happy in a long time. We see him blush and be pleasantly surprised, to the point he tried to reach to her. So yes, (thanks to Mizi being alive) Ivan was right, Till could have lived without him, if only he had managed to escape the Alien Stage with Mizi and Hyuna.

This is not to blame Till or to say this is not an expected outcome. I think we all know that Mizi was his light and savior in many ways.

At the same time, I think he didn't even have the time to reflect on what happened with Ivan and why he did what he did, which definetely makes me sad.

[timmie-p]

guys. guys. guys. !!!!

Ivan: Pfft

Ivan: Ah, sorry, I didn’t mean to…

.. but it doesn’t matter because you’re not going to see me anymore. Seeing you like this makes me feel relieved, like I’m not the only one who’s twisted.

Sua: What..?

Ivan: You don't want to be the tragic heroine who sacrifices herself for her, do you? Are you feeling miserable and sorry for yourself?

Hypocrite~ All you do is avoid responsibility, blame it all on your opponent and run away

Ivan: You’ll be nothing more than a left behind trauma to Mizi.

Sfx: Urgh!

Sfx: Flick

Ivan: See, in the end it’s all about yourself

👀‼️⁉️

this is massive characterisation moment besties !! what is happening!!!!!!!

i wonder what sua did to get a red collar and psychoanalysis from ivan ‼️⁉️ and why doesnt ivan have a collar! is this being a good obedient child special privileges..

so it looks like to me: sua took the fall for something related to mizi and got punished (red collar) —>

ivan comes to be smug, says she’s twisted because she doesn’t actually want to sacrifice herself for mizi and is just putting up an act —>

she’s feeling sorry for herself because she’s being punished for something she didn’t do, ivan says she’s a hypocrite that doesn’t take responsibility —>

implies that she’s going to die (?) and will be nothing but a trauma in mizi’s past —>

sua is hurt by his words and runs away, ivan takes her non-rebuttal as proof that he’s right and she’s selfish

i think sua tearing up is supposed to mean she does care about mizi and is offended ivan would say such a thing (but also maybe internally admitting to some of it?? idk)

i think this is the most sua focused extra info we’ve gotten so far 🤯 hope someone else can actually figure out whats going on lol my mtl translations are in the flop era 🙏 i do not know what theyre talking about just making guesses out here

+ extra thought what does ivan mean by not going to see him anymore… was sua moved to isolation or something??

[sadokasochism]

I am destroyed over the whole god/worshipper dynamic and have no idea how to adequately put it into words.

I mentioned in another post that Mizi could not fathom Sua ACTUALLY dying, or comprehend what death really meant, and attributed this to her relatively comfortable and sheltered life as the pet of Shine. She was not taught to conceptualise death as a loss, and she never faced any opposition to that world view. From what we know, she might have never really known true, lasting pain or loss before the end of Round 1.

However, her reaction could also be due to her placing Sua on a pedestal as her personal god and universe. She viewed Sua as her absolute everything, and why would any faithful worshipper believe their god could be killed? Only, while Sua was everything to HER, that perception did not carry over to their captors. Mizi's love and devotion was not enough to save Sua. Forces stronger than them both took her away like she was nothing.

How must Mizi have felt, having her perception of Sua as the centre of the universe shattered that way? Coming to the violent realisation that Sua was just another human, and that humans are indeed that vulnerable and disposable? That Sua could now only exist in memories and in the visions that haunt her? That Sua is not a god, but a ghost?

Now we look at Till's perception of Mizi. Again, in an earlier post I mentioned the tragedy of Till falling for someone who did not have a reason to leave. He had a lot of blind faith in Mizi, and it could be said that he idealised her as a paragon.

It's not hard to see how he reached this point. The poor kid had not been shown a lot of kindness in his life, and so meeting someone who was genuinely good and so full of joy must have had a huge impact on him.

However, his faith is still a blind one, but in a different way to Mizi's blind faith in Sua. He is happy to endure any amount of horrible treatment and does not expect anyone to help him. He doesn't resent Mizi for being so close to their captors, for her dreams stopping at Alien Stage. He doesn't resent her after he gives up on his chance at freedom and is subjected to who knows how many more years of pain and torment at the hands of their captors (Not that Mizi is at fault, Till made his own decision that Mizi likely never even knew about).

He sees Mizi's innocence and ignorance to the cruelty of their reality as something wonderful instead of a character flaw that prevents her from saving herself or her loved ones.

Sua has the same issue, seeking comfort and bliss within Mizi's brightness instead of acknowledging the cruel reality of their world. Maybe she felt sharing her perspective with Mizi would dim Mizi's bright spirit, and so she was more than content to wait out the clock with her god.

Maybe Sua felt that meeting Mizi, loving her and being loved by her in return, was nothing short of a miracle after the life she had lived before Anakt Garden. Maybe she felt in light of that, aspiring for something like freedom or a long, long life of happiness with the person she loved the most was asking far too much. The time she got with Mizi was already a miracle, why expect or demand anything more?

If Sua was afraid of Mizi losing her brightness, no wonder she was so affected by Ivan's lecture about becoming a source of trauma for Mizi after her death.

Ivan's view of Till as his god is a bit different. He is similar in that he doesnt seem to demand his devotion be reciprocated, he just wants his god to acknowledge him as a person, as someone that is at least PART of Till's universe, if he can't be all of it.

He is also very willing to become a martyr for his god while expecting nothing in return but Till continuing to live. He acknowledges Till as vulnerable and falable in a way that Till doesn't with Mizi, and Mizi didn't with Sua. He knows damn well that while Till is the centre of HIS universe, their captors certainly do not hold Till in that same regard. He knows that love and devotion in a vacuum does not save anyone.

Which is why he was always the one to free Till, to try and escape with him, and why he pulled the stunt he did in Round 6. Ivan knew that actually making an impact in this world required personal risk and sacrifice, because their captors don't give a fuck if you're in love or if that other pet-human they're about to kill means everything to you.

Till knew this too, but his idealised version of Mizi is too perfect to be broken and beaten down by this world the same way the rest of them have been. So he's still shattered by Round 5, seeing how far Mizi has fallen and then not knowing if she's alive or dead, but knowing for sure she is far out of reach. I wonder, did he regret not running away with Ivan at that point? Did he wonder what all those years of suffering were for, if he was just going to end up losing Mizi anyway? If this world was able to break her too, no matter what he did?

Mizi is gone and changed forever, and nothing he did could stop it. His love and devotion and sacrifice wasn't enough. He failed his god.

In Round 6, Ivan is faced with the same thing. His god has lost his fighting spirit, is changed forever, and Ivan's love and devotion wasn't enough to save him. The last thing he can give is his life, and hope that will be enough. Just like Sua. But he was never Till's god, was never even part of his universe, he probably won't even leave a ghost behind. So, the choice is obvious, really.

They're all so desperate for hope and connection in this lonely, painful existence that they make a person their entire universe, and then are repeatedly crushed when they are shown again and again that their soul-consuming love for one another is seemingly meaningless in a world that views them as infinitely disposable.

[cum-villain]

(Just gonna copy-paste the thread here)

One thing that's kind of going through my head is what I've heard is in the recent patreon post. To Till, Mizi is his god, his kind salvation, while Ivan is someone he feels a range of love and hate and deep emotions

In other words, the unrealized ivantill truthers are right; Till did love Ivan, but the love was mixed with hatred, complicated painful emotions. With Mizi, it wasn't the same kind of love, I suppose more shallow, but in a safer, less painful way. A distant kind salvation.

Shallow is kind of the wrong word to use here though, it's not that they don't have a connection. They very much were friends, as shown in the mizitill scene in the end of round 7. But while his love for Mizi cradles his heart, Ivan's pierces and threatens to consume it.

So, while he did have a connection with Ivan, that connection wasn't as safe. Mizi was his god, not because he was closer, but because she was the figure of light that shined in his dark world, an idol he could worship and feel happy worshiping.

So. Ivan was someone he felt a range of emotions about, sweet and bitter, painful and kind. But more of the bitter, more of the painful. It really does make sense, Ivan doesn't emote normally, his kindest, tenderest moments were when Till wasn't looking.

But despite that, Till still cared. He didn't see everything, but it's not as though he was always turning his head. There were plenty of times Till cares and Ivan had his head turned, like when Till was hesitant about going back to anakt, but all Ivan saw was Till's leaving him.

It isn't that Ivan was in love and Till loved someone else, it's that they both cared, but could never find a way to bridge the gap. Ivan could never show his love in a way Till understood, and so Till could never feel safe putting his emotions in Ivan's hands.

And so, round 6 was Ivan trying one last time to show his love, but just as always, it was damaging, and Till couldn't truly understand it. (We all have to understand, kissing as romance really isn't something in the alnst world, as a certain comic explains.)

So, now we get to round 7. We all saw how Luka pretended to be Ivan to make Till despair, and that seeing Mizi again made Till break free and smile again but in a way that spelled his doom. I really think that encapsulates his whole deal honestly.

Because, the love he has for Mizi was doomed from the start, for several reasons. And, I kind of think he knew that on some level. The obvious thing is Sua being Mizi's god, but there's also the 'shallowness' I mentioned above.

Mizi was someone he cared about, certainly a friend, and he liked her in a certain way, but it was a comfortable love. A love he felt good about. And, certainly the love he felt was real. But the /connection/ they had would never be as strong as what he could have had with Ivan.

However, in Round 7, he had no time to process how he felt about Ivan's death, no time to process the feelings unrealized that now would never have a name. And Luka's manipulation took advantage of that turmoil. The mimicry of the kiss directly mocked it.

I agree with what a different user said, that what Luka takes advantage of isn't love, but loss. But, what is grief but love persevering? And what do you call it when you don't understand that it was love after all, what is it that perseveres?

That lost connection, that never truly blossomed and stayed sheltered in its bud, is what Luka was mocking. "Remember these sensations, remember what happened to this person? Remember the person who died in front of your eyes? What's in your head now? What do you feel now?"

Honestly, the question Luka is asking to provoke him is the same one we all have: Who was that person to Till? Sua was Mizi's god and love, Till is Ivan's love and obsession, but what was Ivan to Till? Come to think of it, that may be why we only see a flashback of the kiss.

Because the question asked is, "What do you feel about this?", but Till's head definitely isn't in the right place to think about it. He's blocking out any thoughts of what it might be, but the question itself makes Till pained enough for the provocation to have worked.

And, just in time for Till to not have to think about it. Just when he almost had to think about his complicated bond with Ivan, Mizi appeared, his god, his salvation. He smiled, not thinking of the question at all. Which is why Luka was upset, Till ignored the question.

But, in the end, that shallow connection wasn't enough; if he had sang with that deep connection in mind, he might have conveyed something that was enough to win points. But he sang with something more shallow in mind, something that wouldn't earn enough points. So he died.

[rotkad]

little ramble bc it's late at night and i don't have my meds yet

the IvanTill my clematis cover is so. interesting. to me.

i feel like till was just singing it on a whim at the beginning but started getting more into it when ivan joined him.

do you think the reason ivan does mizi's monologue and sings the ending is because he kinda knew that's how it was in mizi's head? as opposed to till who was just singing what he heard on stage that night?

till doesn't understand but ivan does

did you notice how soft till's voice got during his final verse in the song after he was intercepted by ivan? do you think it was sincerity or understanding?

till is a very hotheaded person we know this well, but for some reason, his reaction to ivan's interception felt like it was lacking? like he reacted, yes, but something about it seemed like it was something familiar to him or at least something that didn't bother him as much as he was letting on

isn't their duet itself just interesting as a concept? even if it's just a cover. the story behind it would be so interesting.

why would till let ivan sing with him?

why did till begin to sound genuinely calm and at ease midway through?

did you hear how shaky ivan's voice got at the end?