#why did they end it with mizi and not ivan

[till-to-the-end-and-back]

Till's gaze soften and he leads Ivan's hands into his, linking their fingers together. "Look, Ivan. I should come clean.... That day we tried to escape-" He had to stop for a moment, his lips was moving faster than his brain for once. "-.... I did want to run away with you. I really did... But I cared about Mizi and felt bad about leaving her and Sua here. I couldn't bring myself to leave them."

He had to sort his feeling and thoughts for a moment. "I like Mizi..... But it's a shallow kind of love. I don't honestly know her, and I know she only loves Sua. I'm not ignoring that, that's why I never pushed. But the love I have for Mizi is nothing like the love she has for Sua. Mizi was just easy to like, to admire. .... It was a safe kind of love, one I could handle."

He looks up at Ivan, slightly tightening his grip on the other's hands. "But this is different, this isn't surface level. I know Mizi will always just be a friend, and I'm fine with that. Friendship is love too. But this.... Us... It runs deep. That's why I was so aggressive. If I lost Mizi, it would crush me. But if I lost you, it'd kill me." There it was, the truth. Till still didn't fully understand why he loved Ivan like this. But he learned long ago that the heart was a unreasonable wicked thing.

"This love still hurts me, but it hurts so good. Just like you, I don't want it to end. Beacuse it's a reminder that I'm still human, still alive and still whole. I don't really mind you being aggressive.... and childish. But chill on the violence. If you still wanna fight, let it be a sparring match, not an argument. I know we all deal with our cruel reality in our own ways, some more extreme than others. But I'd rather avoid the stress... at least here.... with you."

"Motherfucker! What are you trying to pull!?" Till hissed with a deep blush covering his cheeks. "I know you like to mess with me, but fuck, man!" Till huffed and tried to push Ivan away from him.

@till-to-the-end-and-back

Ivan grinned at Till, only to hold onto his shirt with a resistance of his own, pushing forward even when the grey-haired boy attempted to shove him back. “Till!” He exclaimed, voice full of unadulterated glee, “I have no idea what you’re on about—“

Even as he said that, there’s a knowing glint in his eye because he, quite frankly, did know what the other boy is talking about. Though, Ivan can’t help but notice how much more flustered Till looks as opposed to his usual anger and frustration.

“What, did you like it? You’re blushing more than usual…”

[ivanttakethis]

Do you think Mizi had a higher intimacy rating with Ivan (75%) than with Till (30%) at least in part because of their conversation in the True Face comic?

Like, Ivan is nice to her and they talk and hang out sometimes, which I’m sure is on par with other students, but unlike other male students (sorry to put you in this group Till), he doesn’t “like” Mizi that way.

He doesn’t want anything from her. He doesn’t even want to watch her from a distance like some sort of goddess (so sorry again, Till).

There’s no ulterior motive for him to be friendly to her.

Maybe Mizi could sense that?

She could be friends with Ivan without having to worry about him taking the things she said or did the “wrong way.”

He wouldn’t misinterpret her taking a nap on him or asking for a piggyback ride as something romantic.

She was comfortable around Ivan.

Maybe Mizi even felt like she could trust him? Or at least not have her guard up.

Now that’s not to say that she distrusted Till or thought he would act like the blond guy did, however—

I can see why she would feel less fond of Till versus Ivan.

And the fact that the first thing he said when she asked why he liked her was because she was pretty made things worse.

Till didn’t like Mizi because of her personality.

He liked her because she was pretty.

Shallow. Surface level.

He built up this fantasy of her in his head and that’s what he loved.

Not her.

Just like all of the other boys “circling around her all the time.”

This is my favorite panel in the comic, because it says so much about what Mizi’s thinking without her having to say a word.

The dull look in her eye.

“I see. You’re just like all of the others.”

An invisible string between them is severed.

Mizi is the only one who notices.

This conversation also recontexualizes a lot of other art we’ve seen of Mizi and Till interacting.

She’s not oblivious to his blushing or how he stumbles over his words when talking to her. She knows what it means and is purposefully ignoring all of that because he’s her friend and she wants him to stay that way. Nothing more.

This is the second time Mizi is shown telling Till directly and in no uncertain terms that she likes/loves Sua, and I can imagine the fact that he doesn’t seem to take the hint would make her keep some distance.

It’s her way of protecting herself.

She doesn’t want him to be angry.

Saying no could be dangerous.

The last time she rejected someone it ended in violence.

(Again, not saying Till would do this, but Mizi doesn’t know that for sure.)

She has to be kind and sweet.

She has to let him down gently.

She has to say no in a roundabout way.

She has to tread lightly. Watch her words. Her physical contact. Even how long she looks at a boy so they don’t get the wrong idea.

And if they do, it’s her fault.

Whether or not Mizi knows Ivan is gay doesn’t really matter either.

It’s about the security of knowing you can just be yourself around someone.

It’s about feeling safe.

Safe enough to take a nap, even.

[bluemoonscape]

To me, this is the thesis of Alien Stage. For each duo and in more ways than one.

For Ivantill, Till might never have loved Ivan romantically, though we do have indications he may have. Either way, he didn’t love Ivan the same way Ivan loved Till. He didn’t obsess over Ivan the way Ivan did Till. He didn’t want to accept Ivan’s sacrifice the way Mizi accepted Sua’s sacrifice, but Ivan forced it on him. Till’s love was different from Ivan’s, but does that really matter? It was love, too.

Interestingly enough, Luka has both Hyuna and Hyunwoo’s hearts. Despite everything, Luka lived. Hyunwoo initiated the fight between them, and Luka reacted violently, which led to Hyunwoo’s death. Luka was shot at, and Hyuna took the bullet, killing her. Luka has lived in spite of everything because of their deaths. Hyuna loved Luka, but her sacrifice was one made partially out of revenge. Luka may have loved Hyunwoo when they were friends as kids, but he still killed him. He may have loved Hyuna, but he still hurt her. But it was love. Nonetheless, it was love.

And, of course, Mizisua. Mizi didn’t love Sua in a way that propelled her to sacrifice herself for Sua. Sua’s love was the kind that made it impossible for Sua to live without Mizi. If you recall their mental strengths, Sua’s is extremely low while Mizi’s is strong. Mizi knew Sua couldn’t handle if Mizi died. Mizi underestimated just how much Sua’s death would ruin her, but she was willing to bear it so Sua didn’t have to bear losing her. She might not have been willing to die for Sua, but she gave Sua a gift, too. She let Sua give Mizi her sacrifice. And that’s love. That was love.

Even Mizi’s monologue about Hyuna is riddled with the weight of this theme.

Mizi is bitter because Hyuna fought for so long for humanity—a wider concept than Mizi can perhaps even comprehend, having lived isolated and then in ANAKT her whole life. She fought for something that seemed to mean so much, and then she threw it all away for Luka, a man who Mizi seems to loathe and whom she thought Hyuna loathed too.

Mizi is angry because Hyuna’s love, Hyuna’s sense of justice, required sacrifice. For humans, and for Luka. Mizi’s lingering bitterness over Sua’s decision transfers to Hyuna, because why? Why does your love demand you to die for it for nothing?

But it wasn’t for nothing.

Because even though Sua sacrificed herself for Mizi, and Hyuna risked her life to save her and then died for Luka only ended in Mizi’s death by her own hand—Luka either dying and being replaced or continuing to be imprisoned by the aliens for entertainment—

Even if Hyuna’s love for humanity and belief in their freedom only led to children in museum displays rather than stages—

It mattered.

Mizi still destroyed the competition that ruined her and Sua. She still cemented Ivan’s sacrifice by saving Till.

Hyuna still got her justice. She stopped running. Even if Luka remains trapped, his life still means something.

They all loved each other and the world differently, but it was love too. And it’s never for nothing.

[deadwizardsoci]

i bet the "till was completely fine with everything ivan did and reciprocates his feelings fully, he was just surprised when he was kissed which is why he reacted the way he did" alnst fans clutched their pearls watching karma (if those fans have any media literacy like at all)

i absolutely love my miscommunication tropes. delicious.

i saw someone say that till started to love-admire mizi because they were friends and had a good bond together while, in contrast, his bond with ivan had always been somewhat of a rollercoaster, and i 100% agree with that. ivans inability of expressing his feelings in a healthy way and tills obvious rebellious nature aswell as impulsivity resulted in useless and meaningless fights. then, all of a sudden they were all buddy buddy and hanging out like friends do. it was all obviously incredibly confusing for till, seeing as he bases and diminishes his feelings on someone from what their general relationship looks like (like we see him doing with mizi). obviously, he wouldn't know how to classify his and ivans bond, because as i said some days there was affection, some days there wasnt. because of ivans lack of social awareness, there were some obviously uncomfortable elements in their time together aswell, even if they werent being hostile with one another at the given moment.

this in no way goes to say ivan is "the bad one". all of his issues, aswell as tills, result from a lack of understanding of basic human emotions and needs. having grown up as literal pets for a species that is nowhere close to relating to their issues (and even if they were, unwilling to get all touchy and vulnerable with them and solely treating them as nothing more than what they see them as— entertainment), they'd certainly have trouble dealing with it when their complex emotions inevitably surface. they live and grow with no validation of their feelings, no instructions, nothing, therefore, how could we blame either one for how their relationship turned out?

i personally think till did reciprocate ivans love, maybe even as fiercely as him, but while he tried showing it and, as seen in karma, quite literally pushed his love down till's throat, till decided to keep the distance because he couldn't understand it, didn't know how to deal with it. this of course also doesn't mean he was fine with being kissed. he still didnt know what his feelings for ivan looked like (he had no time to even process them as they'd been so complicated for so long, and he obviously avoids being vulnerable, even within himself), he was in an extremely sensitive place, grieving mizi and on top of it all was the natural panic and fret of his fight or flight to stay alive in such a situation, where death is looking you straight in the eye.

perhaps it was hard to realise seeing as the music and his lyrics kept going, but till's exhaustion (a natural grieving response) overcame him and he eventually gives up. he knows he could die. he knows he will die. but he is simply too exhausted to continue.

ivan notices, and goes over to him not because he sees an opportunity to get revenge, but to lower his own score so till can win either way. he sacrifices himself for his sake. he goes over and forcefully kisses him, even as till pulls away, he keeps going, making the audience think he wants to hurt him. he goes as far as putting his hands on his neck to give the impression he's being strangled aswell, and in the end, his sacrifice is worth. he's not doing it because he wants to, he's doing it so till can win because he loves him.

also would like to say, for the other side of the fandom thats like "ivan is a monster! he made till uncomfortable and wanted to hurt him because he was rejected!", NO BUDDY. ivan's hands are shaking as he goes on to grab him, he's even pressing on the sides of his neck, not forwardly blocking his airway, and even if you missed all of that, HE QUITE LITERALLY GOES ON TO STARE AT THE SCORE AS HE DOES IT. he braces himself to be shot and PULLS AWAY FROM THE KISS AS TO NOT HURT TILL ASWELL. he lets go the very moment blood spills from his mouth, at peace with the thought that till survives. and yeah, obviously till is grabbing at his own neck after 😭 while not fatal, the discomfort was still there, and mixed with the previous panic, it was much more intense.

then, gazing down at ivans body, he understands what his intention truly was.

in the next round, till avenges ivan by trying his best to beat luka. we can see this from his physical desperation, both in body language and expression

he is also on his mind CONSTANTLY. he is grieving a love he didn't even realise he had until it was too late. he quite literally hallucinates luka as ivan the whole time, finally understanding how he loved him.

wild that i have to make this post. its so clear. everything is SO clear. if you paid slightly more attention you could tell so too 😭😭😭

[tillsfan]

Why Till HAS to be alive.

hello everyone!! warning this is REALLY long (specifically as you get to the end). i hope you enjoy my in depth theorizing.

The flickering of his picture.

At the end of round 7, his picture lingers and flickers after Luka moves up the ranks. In all the previous rounds, the loser’s picture faded out before the winner moved up. People are saying this is a reach but I believe this is the most obvious hint. Vivinos’ details are always intentional and significant.

His earpiece falling out.

His earpiece falls out after he gets shot. We are shown that these earpieces detect the wearer’s heartbeat. They couldn’t detect his heartbeat disappearing because it fell out. Due to his picture lingering and then flickering, I assume the flickering was as his earpiece fell out.

When you think about it, why else would they show us this teaser image? This teaser pushed it into our faces that the earpieces are heart monitors. I think it’d be a little too coincidental that till’s earpiece fell out after this.

How he was shot.

The gunshots came from the audience. Meaning that where Till got shot, it didn’t go through his neck, and only grazed it.

This injury isn’t as fatal as Ivan’s and Sua’s. He also didn’t bleed out as he got shot, while Ivan and Sua bled out all over the floor.

This shows that his injury wasn’t bad enough to be fatal. He’s definitely severely hurt, as he coughed up blood, but he’s salvageable.

The way his body is lying.

Till’s arm went limp, yet his leg was still staying up. If you’re dead, you physically cannot support any part of your body. His leg would’ve fallen. I believe he DID pass out, though. I see people saying he’s pretending, and honestly I don’t believe he’s in the right headspace to think of faking he’s death. He’s tired, exhausted, he was clearly stressed throughout the round.

The fact that he’s still able to support his leg up shows that blood is still actively flowing through him. If he were dead, it’d be pretty much physically impossible for his leg to stay propped up, as blood would’ve stopped flowing.

Also the way he’s positioned to the audience, his leg is covering up where aliens would be able to see the injury, same with Mizi’s arm. This is definitely more of a stretch, just a detail I noticed

His All-In cover art.

In his cover, he has red tape over his neck. I think this is too significant and OUT as a detail to not mean anything. Although it’s on the opposite side of where he actually got shot, bandaging his neck in general seems too big of a detail. None of the other characters had a detail like this in their cover arts.

It could be said that he has the tape due to being a rebel, which made sense before Round 7. But if we used this logic, wouldn’t Hyuna have some significant detail in her cover art?

We also know that red equals rebellion in Alien Stage. It signifies fighting back. As I said before, this COULD be said because he’s a rebel, but I think he’d be fighting back despite his injury. It wasn’t a fatal wound.

His character is unfinished.

His death doesn’t make sense compared to the other characters that died. Ivan’s death was easier to accept because we knew his motives, his story. For the entirety of Alien Stage, he was the narrator in his and Till’s story. There wasn’t any mystery surrounding his character, so it made sense to kill him. Sua’s death was easier to accept because her death did something for the narrative, as her death started this chain of events and continued to haunt the narrative. We also eventually learned her true motives.

But Till’s death? It does nothing. You could say his death is to build Mizi’s character, but I think it’d make more sense if he LIVED for Mizi’s character. Her motivations would change, it’d be easier to move on from events if she had someone with shared trauma with her. In general, Till’s death makes no sense compared to the other deaths. He didn’t have any motivations at this point besides living. Sua and Ivan’s goals were fulfilled, which was protecting their loved ones. But Till’s wasn’t. His death is significantly different from the other dead contestants.

His story is also just.. not done at all. He was just beginning to develop as a character. Mizi grew after Sua’s death, her character developed significantly. Till didn’t develop as a character after Mizi’s disappearance, and he didn’t have the chance to develop after Ivan’s death, even though it was significant to him. We also got literally NOTHING from his POV besides around 2, which was just him adoring Mizi and a little peek at the abuse he’s endured. Also his death is just a waste in general—I don’t believe they’d tell his story AFTER he died. It just makes no sense to kill off his character after questions were just being raised.

How the creators are treating his ‘death’.

The way that Vivimeng are treating his ‘death’ feels so especially different to me. Ivan’s art after his death was a bittersweet art, and he was resting. he was okay with his death, and we were forced to accept that reality. Plus the "thank you for being the victim of my shallow emotions" comic. That concluded his story, we learned his motives and it was easier to accept he died after. But Till? We never got his POV on anything. We never got his final thoughts like we did Ivan and Sua. Till’s story was never told through his OWN eyes. Vivimeng are GATEKEEPING till's perspective like their life depends on it. My theory as to why? His character isn't over. His life isn't over, there's so much missing about him and the dots aren't connecting in the same way they have for the previous deaths

Till’s comic and art were happy. Bittersweet pieces. You knew there was a tinge of sadness, yet I can't help but feel these last till arts are pushing hope onto us. Ivan and Sua’s comics ended with their deaths, Till’s ended with 4nakt all together. it brings the theme of hope. Of love prevailing. I feel we can't look over the fact that Till’s comic is so vastly different than the others.

I should also note that they are going out of their way to hide details of his neck in all official arts after Round 7. He’ll have his branding hidden, or just straight up gone. Also in the recent official art of him, Ivan and Sua, his art is significantly different. He’s the only one facing away from us, the blood on him not visible, and his injury is also facing away from us. There’s a lack of branding on him as well. I feel this is the most obvious piece we’ve gotten signifying that he’s going to be alive, they’re deliberately hiding any way for us to see the aftermath of his injury. Unlike with Ivan and Sua, where they made their aftermath very obvious. (I would add images but I reached the image limit. Crying.)

TLDR, there’s too many details.

Vivinos excels too much at writing to fail his character like this. To kill him off as his story just started. I believe him finally being able to tell his own story instead of having others tell it for him will symbolize him breaking free. Breaking free from the restraints. From his status as a prisoner. I think this experience will further him as a character, and not truly end him.

[reomikagekin]

Thanks for the main cast of alien stage think with FEM motherly s/o request thing. But if you don't mind another same but different request this time, can you do the main cast of alien stage on what's their reaction on female motherly figure s/o who holds them like a mother before their last breath was taken? & Luka & Mizi thoughts on fem s/o motherly personality. Sorry bad grammar

You feel like home…

Sua

She’s fading fast. You’re covered in blood — hers — and your voice shakes as you call her name. Sua, loud and proud, fearless even when the world crumbled around her, is now lying limp in your lap. Her breaths are shallow, short, and painful.

You press her to your chest, rocking gently like a mother calming a frightened child. Her fingers twitch weakly against your arm.

“You always…” Sua’s voice is broken. “You always held everyone like this. Even when you were hurt. Even when you were scared.”

You wipe away the blood at the corner of her lips. “I’d hold you through anything.”

She blinks up at you, vision fading. Her expression softens.

“I wanted someone like you when I was little. Someone who stayed. Someone who loved without asking me to change…”

You brush your hand over her hair, quieting your sobs. She dies listening to your heartbeat — a rhythm she never had growing up, but found with you in the end.

Ivan

Even now, Ivan smiles.

But it’s not his usual grin — not the polished, practiced expression he wore for others. This smile is broken. Uncertain. Like a boy caught pretending to be fine for too long.

He’s dying in your arms, and for once, he’s not performing.

“You’re… so unfair,” he whispers, voice trembling. “You always knew how to look at me like I was just a person.”

You cradle his face in your hands and kiss his forehead.

“That’s all you ever were to me. Just… my Ivan.”

He laughs. It’s raw and real — something no one ever got to hear.

“You always gave me a place to return to. Even if I was selfish. Even if I was cruel.”

You don’t scold him. You just keep holding him.

Ivan’s last breath escapes like a confession he never had the courage to say. His fingers wrapped tightly in your sleeve, clinging to the warmth he never believed he deserved.

Till

He’s terrified. His whole body trembles as you catch him, dragging him close to your chest like instinct. He’s small like this. Not just physically — but emotionally. Young. Worn out. Exhausted.

“I-It hurts…!” he cries. “I don’t wanna die!”

You rock him. Slow, steady, whispering words you don’t even register anymore.

“It’s okay, baby. It’s okay. I’ve got you. You’re safe now.”

He sobs like a child.

“Why does it feel like this? Why does it hurt so much?! Why didn’t anyone stop this?!”

“I’m sorry,” you whisper, clutching him tighter. “I wish I could’ve protected you from everything.”

His hands curl against your shirt, his face buried against your chest.

“Y-You’re warm,” he mumbles, voice weakening. “Like my mom used to be… before she left…”

You press a kiss to his hair, weeping silently as his breathing slows. He passes in your arms — held, soothed, and at peace in a way life never gave him.

Hyuna

She always joked she was invincible. She’d grin at death like it was a rival. But even she looks small now, limp in your arms, blood soaking her shirt. Her smile is faint — still trying to be strong.

“Didn’t… think I’d go out like this,” she laughs weakly. “I thought I’d be yelling until the end…”

You cradle her like she weighs nothing, like she’s not breaking apart in your arms.

“You don’t have to be loud right now,” you whisper. “Just rest. I’m here.”

Hyuna’s eyes flutter. “You always sound like my mom,” she murmurs. “I hated it, y’know? That gentle voice. But… I get it now.”

You press your forehead to hers.

“I'm proud of you,” you whisper, “for surviving as long as you did. For never giving up.”

Hyuna’s lips part in a trembling breath. “Then… hold me a little longer…”

She dies smiling — curled into your warmth, face pressed against your neck like a child who finally lets go.

Mizi’s Thoughts on Motherly Fem!S/O

She didn’t know how to react to you at first. You were gentle, soft-spoken, always looking after the others — even when no one returned the kindness. She thought it was weakness. A delusion.

But the first time she collapsed into your arms after Sua’s death — shaking, sobbing, unable to breathe — and you just held her, said nothing, and let her cry...

That was the first time Mizi realized what safety felt like.

You didn’t judge her. You didn’t ask for strength. You let her be small. Human.

And she came to you again. And again. Even if she never said it out loud, you became her peace.

Sometimes she’d pretend to fall asleep beside you, just to feel your hand in her hair. She needed you. The warmth. The quiet.

Mizi never had a mother. But she found something in you that stitched the wound closed — even if only temporarily.

💭 Luka’s Thoughts on Motherly Fem!S/O

Luka didn’t believe in softness.

He grew up believing love came with conditions. That vulnerability was a weakness that got you hurt — or worse, killed. So he watched you carefully.

Why did you help the others when they couldn’t help you?

Why did you love them, even when they broke down or lashed out?

It didn’t make sense — until he broke down in front of you once. He had a nightmare. You found him alone, crying silently.

You didn’t say anything. Just pulled him into your arms and hummed softly, like he was a child who deserved gentleness.

He never forgot that moment.

Even after, he refused to speak of it. But he sought you out more. Sat near you. Let himself be touched, comforted, known.

You were the only one who saw past the walls. You saw the scared little boy beneath all that ambition and calculation.

You didn’t save him with words. You saved him by simply being there. And that… that terrified him.

Because losing you would be the one thing he could never recover from.

[geospiral]

I've seen before people say that one of the main reasons Mizisua often gets mischaracterized as being the only “healthy” couple in the series is because people take Ivan’s, a character who tends to have a very unreliable perspective, admiration and jealousy of their relationship at face value, and while I do agree with this on some level, I think it's more people misunderstanding why Ivan feels that way about them and especially Sua.

To put it bluntly, Ivan feels that way because Sua had with Mizi what he couldn’t have with Till. Yes, in part because he wants the same closeness that the girls had with each other, but also, most crucially, because Sua was able to have that kind of relationship while hiding the more “twisted” parts of herself. The Confession comic and the untitled comic where Ivan antagonizes Sua about her choice to sacrifice herself are both the best sources of showing this and also what I think people are referring to when they talk about Ivan’s venerative perspective on Mizisua. 

Starting with that untitled comic, while I think that Ivan always intended to die instead of Till, I don’t think he necessarily believed that he would have to “sacrifice” himself in order to do that, so while he is a hypocrite, I don’t think he was when confronting Sua here (I’ll talk about this more with the Confession comic). He’s not relieved here because Sua’s going in with the same selfish plan that he has for Alien Stage; what he’s relieved about is finding that her relationship with Mizi isn’t infallible, that despite what good intentions Sua may have, she is still capable and willing to hurt Mizi in part due to a selfish desire (she doesn’t want Mizi to die but also doesn’t want to live with the burden of being in a world without her).

He relates this selfishness to how he is with Till because while Ivan may not want to actually hurt him, he does so because he thinks that's the only way to get Till’s attention, to be close to him (ex: fighting as children and stealing his things), but also it seems that he ends up hurting him even when he has no intention to do so, like with the Cheer Up comic.

(translations by sorrowcure)

Now talking about the Confession comic, Ivan says again that Sua is “twisted” when listing their similarities with the “When I found out that wasn’t true…” line referring to their differing situations regarding the person they adore.

He sees that she can be selfish like him (the sacrifice, Sua hiding the truth about the world from Mizi) but that she never hurts Mizi directly while the two were still alive and that they were always happy.

Going back to what I said about Ivan not planning on sacrificing himself, I think he believed that it wouldn’t be necessary and that Till would be the obvious winner of their round whether he pulled the same move he did with Acorn or if they performed in a straightforward manner like Ivan previously did in the third round. It doesn’t seem that Ivan accounted for how bad Mizi’s disappearance would affect Till and that he might try to throw the round himself (stopped singing), but besides that, Ivan’s logic doesn’t seem that baseless given that Till has basically always been more popular than him and is viewed as being an artistic genius.

The panels where he realizes that he was being hypocritical towards Sua in that untitled comic is what solidify this idea in my mind.

(translation by WhataFruit)

Basically, I don’t think those two comics and that Ivan in general necessarily glorifies Mizisua as a whole but as what he wasn’t able to achieve and desperately craves.

[cta-nagito]

A conversation with a friend made me think that many (not all, I'm not saying that everyone does this) are trying to portray Ivan as some kind of obsessed stalker-maniac who will do anything to possess Till.

And I'm not trying to close my eyes to Ivan's dark side, he is prone to doing dubious things (all of them, by the way. Conditions in which they grew up is a separate topic for discussion). Buuuut…

Ivan fell in love with Till for his freedom (well, first of all, for the fact that he communicated with him xD, but for that as well). Don't you think it's strange if Ivan tried to suppress what Till always symbolized for Ivan himself?

You who shines, I stand next to you

We know from Vivinos that Ivan considered himself unworthy of love and gave up the fight for happiness. From the lines of Nowhere we can guess the source of this belief: faced with the extremely harsh life in the slums, Ivan's defense mechanism was to deny the possibility of any of his dreams for something good, because it was easier to forget about it when it once again turned out to be in vain. Sending to Anakt, being different from his peers, the incident with the meteorites - all this only reinforced Ivan's complex.

Although on the other hand, apparently he was really worried that Till, being a rather willful stubborn person, would provoke the Segeins and tried to reason with him to be more reasonable, but Till, of course, didn't give a shit about it. But there is a big difference between worrying about Till killing himself and wanting to tie him to a radiator.

Ivan really did a lot of strange things and invaded Till's personal space again and again. Officially, his desire was to take up as much space in Till's head as possible, he wanted Till to remember him. And Ivan did it as best he could, convinced that it was the only way. At the same time, I think that by the time he graduated from Anakt, Ivan already guessed that he had a very real chance to get closer to Till (and he did, but never realized it…).

I see Ivan as a rather unhappy, depressed and detached person, who at the same time treats his sufferings quite simply, considering it "superficial" and accepting everything as it is, considering this course of things to be right. In general, I think Ivan could be greedy, possessive and demanding, but the problem is that too much has to happen for him to show himself as such.

In the "normal" conditions of their existence, Ivan is too convinced that possessing Till is a priori impossible for him, since no one will ever love him, especially Till. Therefore, he most likely did not even allow fantasies about it, in his world it simply does not exist. He was not even (canonically confirmed) jealous of Till for Mizi. It was natural for him, no matter who Till would love, because in Ivan's world there is no chance that he himself will be loved for who he is.

Ivan did many questionable things, but he never crossed the line with Till. If he had no boundaries, he could have forced Till to kiss him long before he graduated from Anakt. But Ivan did not do that.

That is another reason why his kisses in Round 6 are so desperate. It was the first and last time he allowed himself to do such a thing. Only because he knew that this was the end.

[shakethediseeas]

ALIEN STAGE CHARACTERS WITH AN ALIEN READER

alien stage x reader

maybe ill make more (ivan, hyuna and sua)

CHAFACTERS: TILL, LUKA, MIZI

On your 15th birthday your parents decided to give you a planet as a gift, they took over and made a stage to keep you entertained! its so fun! its humans trying to survive by performing music you've never heard of before.

One day, you decide to visit the garden to take one for yourself and when you saw that figure running by, you knew you want that one.

heads turned at the sound of children going 'woah' as you twirl and walk past them, looking at them as if they were animals in a zoo. two aliens behind you as you keep searching and start getting frustrated-- no one was appealing for you.

just when you were about to turn and head home to complain you finally spot one. they were running after someone with flowers in their hand, and more kids chasing after them.

they stopped when the kid bumped into you, and it went silent. They fell to the floor as you brushed your outfit clean of their filth before pointing down at them.

"i want this one."

to take them of the joy and friends they had in here didnt really matter to you. to you its like picking an animal from a shelter, bringing them to a better home where the only one they would rely on would be you.

that smile you saw before you picked them no longer existed. They were quiet and nervous of getting any negative reaction out of you which only made you mad but you had to be patient with them in order for them to be happy!

'first few months'

how come these humans dont come with a manual because this human was shattering things in rage when they thought you werent home and they hide in a corner so they dont get caught.

You heard of their behavior problems before picking them up, but you didn't care as long as you got to see that smile they had—but since they weren't smiling, you'd have to fix that.

you took Till to visit the garden for a bit, even though your guards were against the idea but who were they to tell you what to do?

He was so happy—the happiest he's ever been since you took him away. When you came to pick him up, he shyly asked if he could ever visit again, to which you nodded.

'you werent THAT bad' is what he thought after you gifted him a custom guitar. you noticed he played with an imaginary one so you decided to build trust and gift him a fancy new electric guitar!

and you still took him constantly to see his friends even though he heard you being scolded for it, that fake argument made him feel more appreciated.

'a few years later'

he jumps to sit down on your bed before demanding to visit a friend who was with their owner, you half listen, too busy painting your nails and kicking your feet in concentration.

mid rant you push the nail polish to his face and say "paint my nails first then ill think about it"

and he does so with a red face.

'first few monthd'

you were pretty sure you were speaking their language so why the hell was this human just staring off into space while drool escaping its mouth. you recoil in disgust and start regretting your decision a bit.

it took you a lot of patience and time to figure out what he likes, you ended up spending a lot of coin on the human for him to at least look at you with stupid big eyes.

you had to spoon feed luka unless you wanted him to starve to death, he couldnt sleep or change properly without you there glaring at him before reluctantly helping him.

you suppose it was okay, if he relied on you too much that would mean he couldn't really leave you, you were in charge.

'.....' though you wished he was a bit more vocal, you thought about it for a long time, if he didnt have the brain capacity to say a nice thank you maybe he could sing for you.

so he did. you bought him whatever you deemed necessary, and he sometimes mentioned another small thing and u gave it to him.

'a few years later'

you dont know why he wanted to sing for anyone else other than you but you allowed it. ever since you took him to see the stage in the VIP section he finally voiced out 'i want to do this' well not really but his face said it.

you get back home, a bit tired and hes tailing behind you as always. you land on the bed exhausted before flicking your hand in the air to signal him 'sing me a song'

after hes done he asks if you requested anything else, noting how tired you looked. but you just shook your head and tell him do whatever you want.

what you didnt expect him to hug you from behind. you couldnt see his face but youd assume its that blank face as always. only he knew that you were wrong.

it was face of pure adoration, a face that said 'you will never leave me' and he held tighter before saying to himself 'im in charge'

oh how you jumped around excitedly at this well behaved human! so sweet, like a cherry, they tried to have a conversation with you by asking "do you like making flower crowns?"

of course you havent who those this human think you are? but instead of saying something like that you shake your head and deny, before asking if they would teach you.

you make flower crowns with Mizi. you demanded to your guards any flowers she would ask for and bring batches of them to her before saying 'where do we start?'

shes happy at first but then you notice that she starts looking a bit sad, you ask her whats wrong and she looks at you with big eyes and says "when will i see my friends again?"

oh well with that sweet face how could you not take her to see her friends every day. and with a big smile she cheers and every day she makes new flower crowns or crafts for them.

'a few years later'

you start thinking 'maybe i spoiled her too much. maybe listening to her every request was a bad idea' as you cross your arms, on your custom designed chair in the center of the audience, the VIP section.

you stare as shes almost shot down by soldiers. you stare as shes taken away from you. you stare at the 'MISSING' message with her face plastered on it.

of course, you knew where she was. you had a tracker on all your pets. but for some reason, you let her run around. it wont be long until she realizes she wont have anyone left anymore.

it wont be long till she realizes she has no one else but you.

[fallloverfic]

I get why a lot of people are jumping on the, "At least Ivan's sacrifice wasn't in vain", train, but I think y'all are maybe misunderstanding what he was doing.

So far as we know (and especially confirmed by Sua in Karma), the characters were all very aware of their inevitable deaths during the contest. Certainly they would have been after the first round. Ivan already survived a round, he saw the results of other rounds. They knew at least one person was not walking off that stage alive, and that the statistical likelihood of any of them - human toys sold as pets, whose continued living relied on having a nice owner who didn't strangle them to death, toss them off a building, or otherwise abuse or neglect them - making it out alive was low, especially when the death match was meant to have one winner.

Personally, I doubt Ivan believed Till could win the whole thing. Not because he doubted Till's ability, but because he was somewhat realistic. Statistics were against him. If anything, if Till made it, he'd be going against Luka, and Luka has a strong track record. Even if Ivan believed in Till, he was likely aware there was still a chance Till wouldn't make it in the end. Certainly, Ivan saw Till unraveling after Mizi disappeared. He likely knew things weren't looking good for the future.

What Ivan bought Till through his own sacrifice was a little more time, and that is invaluable. Ivan died on that stage so that Till didn't have to. Even if Till was shot the next day for losing, that was one more day than he would have had if he'd lost to Ivan. And that little bit is everything when that's all you can do.

Sometimes it's not about the end results. None of us get out alive in the end, after all. But if you hold on - or make it so that other people, particularly folks you care about - can hold on, even for a few moments more, that can be everything. That's love. That's devotion. That's an ultimate sacrifice. It's, to quote Hamilton, "planting seeds in a garden you never get to see." Ivan saved Till's life for at least a small amount of time. Even if Till really was dead after his match with Luka, what Ivan did never would have been in vain. The story in general deals a lot with making it through each individual moment, doing what you can with what you can in horrible systems where most outcomes are bad to some degree, but still fighting until the bitter end. Ivan embodies that. Ivan likely looked at the situation as doing the best with what he could. And that's worthwhile. It's hard for people to buckle down to fight for small victories often obtained with great sacrifice. But it's worth it.

Like yes, the fact that Till seemingly (until Karma) died an apparently short while after Ivan sacrificed himself was part of the tragedy of the story. And it really is wonderful that Ivan saved Till's life for longer than a short amount of time - that's his garden blooming in ways he likely never imagined. I just think coming out of this with, "Ivan's sacrifice wasn't in vain," kind of undermines why he did what he did. Some fights are worth fighting even if they don't ultimately end well. Some things, no matter how small (and Till getting to live for even a short while longer in a contest where he has little agency and a high chance of death is hardly small), are worth dying for. Life (and love, and the life of those we love) is worth it. It's part of what makes us human. It's what the whole thing is about.

[icyboineptune]

Mi Vida Loca and why it's about Ivan

(editor's note: this post started being made the day before Karma but since I've seen it, I've added lil things)

Vivimeng, you've done it again. Broken my heart. I'm terrified for tomorrow with Karma, but hey, what better time to go on an ALNST rant.

(Look at my boy. I love him.)

First off, my delusional ass wants you to take note of the Ivan written in the large, leftmost heart.

And then, the shirt of Till. Normally, it's covered in a mixture of Mizi and Ivan's signatures, but not today! Rather, that cat with an eye mimics when Ivan is portrayed as a cat chasing Till in official art.

The background colour is Paratise's blue, inverted. In fact, whilst the preview was the inverted colours of the Unknown Till The End, the actual album doesn't fit into the same colour scheme at all. It's... well, I'll show you.

Remind you of anyone’s colours, hmm? Look how little pink and green there is (Mizi colours) compared the overwhelming red/white/blue/black representing Ivan.

Now onto the lyrics! See, as of right now I'm unsure whether Till meant the song directly for Ivan, or whether he meant it for Mizi and Ivan snuck in there. Regardless.

"I feel so pathetic whenever I stand in front of you/I can't say a word, I turn back around every day"

Do you remember in Black Sorrow that scene where Till and Ivan were so close to escaping Anakt. Till hesitated and turned around to head back for stability in the form of reliable faces and reliable punishments in the garden since he couldn't face the unknown of freedom like Ivan could?

He is expressing his guilt here over not taking the opportunity now that it is much too late. He wants to turn back around every day that he did not, back to Ivan. But just as he couldn't say a word back then to explain himself, he cannot say a word even in this hypothetical idealised world he wishes to have made.

Doomed yaoi, am I right?

"Scenario: CRUSH"

Remind you of a certain pink-haired lady's desire to crush, anyone?

It's similar perhaps to 'error: no better options' which refers to how the deep idolisation and love for Mizi Till felt was a product of his socialisation, deeper than anything he could say in words (hence his performance of Unknown to show that no, it was much more than her being 'pretty' that meant he cared for her)

I think this demonstrates a sense of awareness from Till that he is susceptible to crushes, without the agency to act upon them the way he wishes.

"My stimulating love explodes"

There's not as much to note about this line yet imo other than the idea that his feelings are kept so badly in check due to how earnest he is in essence that they will always build up and explode out of him, thanks to this lack of self-regulation he has.

"Open up your ears, please understand me"

Ivan does not listen to any sign that he could be genuinely happy around anyone, I don't think. He doesn't pay much mind to the people that admire him for his princely persona, he's put off by Mizi's false optimism, and he's jealous of Sua's reciprocated love.

The latter makes me laugh in hindsight because Mizisua has just as many issues in their relationship. If anything, the perspective that it's better not to tell a loved one your feelings till the end (get it?), though it made Ivan deeply unhappy and ended up with the mess that was round 6, turned out to be a lot kinder on Till than Sua's love was on Mizi. [post-Scars pt 1: NEVER MIND GUYS NEVER MIND HE WAS HAUNTED TOO]

But yeah Till asking him to listen and understand instead of 'shaking it off and stand(ing) tall' like Ivan sings despairingly about in Nowhere feels very purposeful in recontextualising unrequited love as miscommunicated requited love, something I will defend with my life

"Don't you leave me"

Till has never once shown himself to be demanding of Mizi like this, even in Unknown he innocently 'want(s) to know all about (her)' rather than ever make a demand about her presence.

Rather, this is a call to Ivan, an urgent demand for him to return and explain himself. He doesn't want to be a victim of Ivan's 'shallow emotions', goddamn it, he wants him back! The biggest constant in Till's life cannot simply just up and leave to the Great Anakt after throwing the competition and a tantrum by unexpectedly kissing and choking him. He can't leave him, not like this.

It reads almost like a plead to which he'll never know: if you loved me, why did you leave me?

"I'll probably get it across to you for sure"

*klaxon noise*

press X to doubt

There have always been little signs that Till cares for Ivan, even if we have been robbed of a Till POV comic so far that depicts his side of things. But not enough for Ivan to notice.

"Close the distance between us/To be inside your heart"

Up until now, the main one to be mentioning being 'inside' another person as a representation of their desire to forever occupy a space in someone's life is Ivan!

Though 'to live in you like parasite', works as a parallel in that they both wish to be within each other, 'bury my secret deep within my heart' captivated my interest because it feels as though Till is saying to Ivan what he was initially to Mizi: he wants to know about Ivan through his heart, his love, his secrets, everything.

One of Till's love languages seems to be the wholehearted desire to acknowledge and accept a person and all their hidden facets, and part of his frustration thus stems from the fact that he ironically cannot seem to fully break past the masks people hide behind until it's too late.

"Do you love me? I do" AND "Don't you hate me"

Ivan and Till had a love-hate relationship in their lives, and too often I see people disregarding one side of their relationship simply because the hate is more easy for Till to express than his love.

See, while Mizi is more someone to uplift Till, or at the very least make him flustered enough to not express himself properly as seen in the comic where he could say nothing but "you're pretty", Ivan called Till a loser. Like, literally called him a friendless loser that he plays with and Mizi doesn't.

That will hurt coming from someone you spend a lot of time with, especially Till who has - as far as I know - barely any other people who actually like his presence to converse with, save for his bisexual awakenings.

Ivan beats him up and teases him a lot in general tbh. They had to stop because Ivan and his '4 hours of sleep for the GAINS' scheduling meant their physical difference was too big.

"I get scared again like an idiot/Widen the distance between us"

The meteor scene is going to actually kill me. The meteor scene is going to kill meeeee aughhhh

Till once again lamenting for what could have been in his life had the mutual awful communication skills and fear inherent to their beings as pet humans not widened the gap between what is done and what is meant, driving a rift between them.

"Mi Vida Loca"

Damn, boy, your life do indeed be crazy

"They say this is a beautiful song/And they open their arms wide for me"

Till has a 2.5 vocal skill rating (absolutely FOUL, Akugetsu is Ado's brother from another mother and deserved 5/5) but still made Alien Stage because he has prodigy level musical talent. He was stolen from Io because he genuinely liked singing and they took notice of that. I have the feeling aliens don't like the rock-ish genres as much as others, hence All-In being how it is. Mi Vida Loca being loved since it's a pop song thus makes sense, and Unknown skyrocketing him to Top 3 status is because of his performance and stage presence.

His rebelliousness is commoditised despite its existence causing him suffering; he is only conditionally 'loved' by alien society, directly contrasting Ivan's love for his authenticity.

"But more than the countless spotlights I want you/My light is born from you"

OHOHO. Tasty line, this. Light is born from shadow, one cannot exist without the other. Well, Ivan describes himself as Till's shadow: 'What's closer than light is shadow'.

Till's connections with the people around him are the things that keep him going, in essence, which is something I truly admire about him.

"You(r) smile that doesn't love me"

This can apply to Mizi and Ivan to be honest. Mizi smiles and fawns as a way to dissociate from her reality, and Ivan practiced fake smiling in front of puddles to the point of it being one of two expressions he allows himself to show (the other being apathy).

Till's unreliable narrator shows again though, because both of the two definitely cared for him. It's the classic self deprecating thought process of: I really hope they care for me -> of course they don't, just look at me -> but what if I did something new, maybe I would have a shot then -> they're pretending to but they actually hate me, etc etc it goes on forever

"I'll also smile at me that doesn't love myself"

My son has self-expression and self esteem issues. No wonder, what with literally everything that has happened to him in his life. I'd have issues too, gawd dayum.

Why I wrote this is not out of malice for my girl Mizi (girl you're not a witch ahufwdfggsobbinf).

It's because Ivan makes me a sad little man since every one of his songs, original or covered, is the most fucking depressing piece of music to analyse the lyrics of from his perspective. Whether the fact Till loved him back is a win or not is debatable, because that means he hated himself so much he doomed his own relationship (TvT)

Anyways. I DEFINITELY didn't cover everything, but here. My two cents! :D

Yours sincerely,

a guy who submitted an essay analysis of Ivantill to be graded and got a Distinction.

[sadokasochism]

For me, the most heartbreaking aspect of Ivan is that the poor clueless bastard didn't have the tools to express his affection in any way that didn't involve violence or manipulation, or weren't too inscrutable, quiet, or unseen to be picked up by Till.

I definitely interpret Ivan as autistic for several reasons, a big one being their Segyein teacher's notes about him:

It's just. Classic ND behaviour to me.

Not only does expressing emotion and communicating the way other kids do not come naturally to Ivan, but it's not as if he's been given a great example of coping with this from the Segyein.

Ivan managed to mask in a way that made him popular with other students, and got him in the good graces of their captors. He did everything expected of him to survive and thrive in this environment.

Then he meets Till, inscrutable and very different to the other kids, just like Ivan is. Except, Till doesn't mask. He doesn't change or try to endear himself to their captors, and he doesn't bend to anyone, no matter how much he is hurt and punished for it.

This is a new situation for Ivan, and he's never had anything to compare his feelings to. He also can't figure out how to communicate with Till, every interaction, no matter how well meaning, seems to end in failure.

I bring your attention to the cheer up comic, and how, again, autistic this interaction feels:

There could be many reasons why Ivan chose to say what he did, but to me it feels like ND bluntness not being received well. And that's fair! From Till's perspective Ivan is being a jerk for no good reason.

Instead of responding with glee towards Till laying him out (as we see from Ivan when they're a bit older), Ivan justs seems... really confused. Like he didn't expect that statement to upset Till that much, and he didn't expect Till to respond in the way he did. Everything was fine a second ago, what went wrong?

Then, Ivan uses the phrase he learned from Till in an attempt to self sooth. It might have been the first example of comfort after an injury/hurt he had ever seen, given how he defaults to it. And it was from Till trying to cheer up a flower.

This also shows some of Till's blindspots. He has grown up having to be vigilant, because violence and hurt have been a core part of his upbringing. This leads to anything he doesn't immediately, clearly understand being perceived as a threat or a slight, and so he reacts violently to Ivan's statement.

I'll also draw your attention to this comic where, as far as we know, Ivan is simply stating a true fact in a blunt manner:

In my interpretation, these types of interactions keep adding up, and Ivan is grasping at straws the whole time, trying to be closer to Till and failing every time.

Eventually, the only surefire way to get Till's attention is to piss him off, provoke him, manufacture scenarios to talk to him. I'm not excusing this behaviour, but I understand where Ivan could be coming from, from the perspective of both an emotionally immature/stunted child and/or an ND child.

Despite how much they fight and bicker, at every moment it really mattered, Ivan was there for Till. It was always Ivan coming to free him, to take off his collar or gag, and it was Ivan who led their escape.

Ivan couldn't leave Till behind when he went back for Mizi. Even with the confirmation that Till would choose Mizi over Ivan every time, Ivan couldn't leave him.

The miscommunication goes two ways though. It's insane to think that Till didn't care about Ivan at all. They were close as kids, and I doubt Till ever forgot about the escape he gave up.

We have the graduation messages, where Ivan is able to write something that could be reasonably interpreted as affectionate or fond towards Till.

Meanwhile, Till's message-

If we're being charitable with our interpretations, we can say this was Till's way of saying 'of course I remember you' and attempting to communicate that Ivan HAD left a lasting impact on him.

However, how could any reasonable person be expected to get THAT out of 'you stole my fucking pencil'? Ivan could have taken this one of two ways:

1) Omg he remembers me 🥰

2) he leans into his 'i will never be loved back' bias and thinks that Till really doesn't care about him at all

Who the hell knows what goes through that weird little brain of his. But given how Round 6 went, and what Ivan had to say in the confession comic, he obviously didn't think his impact was significant enough.

Then Alien Stage happens, and in Round 3 Ivan is FINALLY communicating his feelings in a way that is vulnerable and might even have a chance of being understood as love and yearning!

Till is unconscious through it until the very end.

Then in the next round, Mizi goes missing, and Till can't care about anything anymore.

Ivan finds him after the private performance, takes off his gag, and just holds him. Again, Till is unconscious for all of this.

Then, in Round 6, not only is Till distraught from the disappearance of Mizi, but he's given no time to process what the fuck is going on before Ivan is dead at his feet. Till might have finally had a chance to really understand where Ivan was coming from, how he really felt all this time, and Ivan DIES.

And still, Ivan's most transparent act of affection? It's delivered with violence. He's kissing a distraught Till who tries to push him away, and neither of them are happy. He puts his hands around Till's neck, not really hurting him, but it's enough to look convincing for the cameras, and it's enough for Till to go limp and wait for death. Ivan's final loving act is to give Till a soft look with blood pouring out of his mouth, that Till still does not see, and then let go before falling to the ground.

It's just a collection of failures. We see from Ivan that he truly loved Till, made a lot of selfless decisions for his sake, was filled with so much longing and affection, but he just couldn't get it across in a way that doesn't seem fucking deranged from an outsider's perspective. And when he DID manage to communicate his feelings more clearly, it was to a Till that was unconscious, or too distracted/dense/traumatised to see Ivan's actions as ones of love.

There's no guarantee that Till would have reciprocated even if Ivan had managed to communicate his feelings in a healthier way, but there was at least a CHANCE. At least Ivan could have gotten some closure, even if he was rejected.

Instead Ivan died thinking he was completely unloved by the person who he cared about more than anything else, and his last ditch effort to make Till understand was deeply flawed and uncomfortable.

If these kids had grown up any other way, maybe they could have had a chance. Unfortunately, the world they were in didn't equip them to not hurt eachother in their attempts to grow closer.

[adamantmaimai]

I can't say all of Mizi's actions are justified,

Edit: She throw hands at Hyuna and Luka (the one she protected with her own body, even if she also wanted revenge too), shot Isaac on the leg and directly sabotaging the rebels plan, setting the stage on fire.

but I also can't say I don't understand her & her reasons.

Living in a cruel world, with fictional walls as a home and violence everywhere. That feeling of emptiness, you're lacking something that makes you human, even if you are not considered one anymore.

That's what most (if not all) of the ALNST cast and human pets feel: the need, the yearn for "love" and "devotion." Warm affection and smiling aren't common. Innocence is a luxury there, you're corrupted the moment you're born. But these emotions mean something: their 'love', what they considered 'love', was reserved for their beloved. Until the very end, until their breath.

Ivan with Till, him with Mizi, and her with Sua, her god & universe.

Hyuluka's case, in my point of view, is different. Luka begged for love and to feel that sensation he makes others feel, with his songs and innocent/sweet appearance. That emotion, that "fire" was given to him on a silver platter by Hyuna. Because as much as she hated him, resented him for what he did, she knew his love would keep him close to her. Their relationship was an on-and-off, and now, with Hyuna gone, Luka's love has withered because she, his fire, is no longer there. And he has to live without it.

That's why I love how Vivinos portrays love. I should say that I don't have any close experience with it (hopeless romantic core), much less can I understand all the religious references and symbolism in all their videos... 😔 But I can say that their work is impeccable, and I could spend hours and hours talking about the chemistry of their characters and how complex they are.

Especially Mizi being the center of EVERYTHING along with Sua and her character & purpose. Even Ivan (bc wtf he's beyond complex) I would write more essays than Hamilton if I have to talk about his whole chemistry with Till, his love, and way of seeing life. (Don't even make me yap about Hyuna/Hyunwoo/Luka bc I won't shut up)

I don't know if ALNST has already ended with KARMA, and if it did, it’s the perfect end to a masterpiece. I have to stand up and applaud for hours bc I've been able to see this masterpiece since 2022. I enjoyed it, I got angry, I cried hours on the songs lyrics and heartbreaking edits on tiktok, but the best of all is that I was able to connect with them, with their music, and with the hard & gorgeous work that the team has done.

Tysm ALNST, for altering my brain chemistry in many ways I can’t describe, and for making me try *try bc it lasted less than a week* to learn Korean to understand the beautiful, meaningful and full of life lyrics. <3

[ayakashiz]

Alien Stage R6 Analysis

VERY LONG compilation of my interpretations, impressions and unanswered questions about Round 6 of Alien Stage. I just wanted to write this to put all my thoughts in one place so I can finally rest (in pieces). TW for mentions of suic*de/suic*dal ideation.

The most debated is no doubt the kiss/choking scene and Ivan’s motivation for doing so in the first place. 

I think from the very beginning, even before R3, Ivan was planning to go out with a bang. That’s the immediate impression I got from the comic where he mocks/criticizes Sua for planning to “selfishly” die for Mizi and feel good being the “heroine” rather than having to deal with the trauma of being the one left behind. 

(I'm too lazy to edit the whole translation as of now, but might do so when I have more time.)

Ivan tells her how he’s “relieved that he’s not the only who’s that twisted” = He’s comparing himself to Sua. He thinks they’re both ‘twisted’ for planning to do the same thing, but from Ivan’s perspective, he at least isn’t fooling himself into thinking his motives are altruistic. He tasted the feeling of being ‘abandoned’, and he knows he doesn’t want to experience it twice. 

He also probably thought that his death wouldn’t be as impactful on Till as Sua’s death on Mizi, and therefore his own selfishness is more justified in his mind. This most likely plays a role in how cold and biting his words are towards Sua –he’s jealous of that difference between them.

I hadn’t noticed this detail the first time I watched the video: Not only did Till look absolutely miserable and defeated from the get go, but he completely gave up and stopped singing at some point. If you look at the video, we can hear the audio that was supposed to be sung, but Till is quiet and still, and THIS is the moment Ivan chooses to act.

Although they do not show the votes at that particular moment, stopping mid song would have definitely taken a hit to Till’s score as it’s basically forfeiting –a huge contrast to his previous match where he didn’t even let his opponent utter a single line.

In response, Ivan doesn’t just walk towards him but throws his microphone to the ground, explicitly forfeiting as well in order to then pull a drastic move like it was foreshadowed in his interview.

The kiss itself imo was the less calculated/arguably unplanned part. He could have just choked Till from the start and it would have gotten him the same if not better results (since it was the act of violence against another contestant that ultimately lowered his score and got the counter to stop). 

That kiss was authentic and for himself entirely, both as a last desperate attempt at conveying his feelings and a selfish way of leaving a strong impression on Till that he wouldn’t be able to forget (a hypocritical move going back to how he criticized Sua). In that sense, I don’t think Ivan was seriously trying to take Till down with him –although that’s up to interpretation. As I see it, that would contradict his actions up until that point.

Till was VERY CLEARLY suic*dal (once again, he gave up singing), and after the initial shock of Ivan squeezing his neck, this fiery, rebellious man who is KNOWN to fight tooth and nail, simply closed his eyes and relaxed his body, waiting for Ivan to end him without fighting at all. 

The thing is, no matter how suic*dal one may be, the fighting response when being actually suffocated is automatic and completely involuntary. People mention there not being marks on Till’s neck but I think the most telling sign is him not going red, not squirming, not struggling or holding onto Ivan’s wrists (again, expected involuntary responses), his eyes not watering or having blurry vision while we see Ivan from his POV, not opening his mouth even a little to gasp for air and not coughing or gasping either when he was finally released.

Ivan definitely had him in a strong grip, might have even made him a bit lightheaded, but the reason why Till could look so relaxed in the first place is because he had given up and was waiting for Ivan to go ahead. If his closed eyes and limp posture were due to the choking itself, he would have fallen or stumbled when being let go, but we see that his eyes open as soon as he feels Ivan’s hands slipping away and he looks shocked instead.

So then what was Ivan’s motivation, if not to kill him? Yes, there’s the already discussed plan to get himself disqualified. But Ivan glances at the screen only a few seconds after he starts the choking, confirming that the voting had in fact stopped with Till having the higher score. He then goes for one last ‘goodbye’ kiss before continuing to choke him, holding his grip even as he starts getting shot.

We see a closeup of him, his eyes and hands trembling, looking more frustrated/emotional than in Till’s first POV where he looks rather stoic. It makes me think that the reason he refused to let go was simply because he wanted Till to look at him. 

They strongly imply throughout the whole video that being annoying or mean or violent was the only way Ivan learnt how to make Till focus his full attention on him, but now even as he’s threatening his life, even as he himself is dying, even after that kiss, Till wouldn’t look. 

It took him getting fatally wounded and realizing there was no turning back to reach a state of acceptance. His bittersweet expression here reminds me A LOT of his smile after Till runs back during the meteor scene, although this one seems a lot more tender. He seems to accept the fact that Till will never love him back, but Ivan cannot stop loving him anyways and he at least got to put his feelings out there. 

(The parallels here are driving me insane. The way there is light in his eyes in both instances as he looks at Till even while 'losing him' in a way. The struggle between wanting to posses him yet realizing his free spirit/strong will is part of what he loves about him. That last genuine gaze from a character who spent his whole life putting on a mask. Yes I am very normal about this.)

Until then, Ivan’s more tender/vulnerable side is only shown while Till is unconscious or looking away.

(That soft, loving nuzzle to Till's face has me in SHAMBLES.)

But ironically, it’s only when he releases him and shows him this vulnerability without a mask that Till really looks at him for the first time. I’d go as far as to say that it was this moment, and not the kiss, that finally made Till understand Ivan’s feelings. And in turn Ivan gets that little shot of euphoria as he falls to the ground.

Going back to the survivor’s guilt… I can only imagine it’ll go completely downhill for Till from now on. Not only does he already think Mizi might be dead and is angry at himself that he couldn’t save her (as seen in the shot where he punches his own picture), but now he has most likely realized that Ivan intentionally fumbled their match for his sake –which would lead to the realization that he was the reason why Ivan chose to run back to Anakt Garden after him in the first place, and that choice ultimately lead to his death. 

Even though we see them fighting a lot as children through the videos and comics, it’s also implied that they were always together and they shared some quiet moments –the “Mizi didn’t play with you, I played with you” art, all that art of the main 4 playing together, those bright smiles as they ran away together during the meteor shower scene and Till looking so guilty when he let go of his hand. 

There are a few cute doodles of them for those who are on Patreon, and some more lore in the Anakt Garden kit –so they were at the very least friends in their own way (as best as 2 very traumatized and abused children could), constantly fighting and making up. Which God… it shows that despite appearances Till must have actually had the patience of a saint when they were little lmao.

But what I’m trying to say is that despite what Ivan may have thought, his death will most definitely have an impact on Till and the narrative going forward, and I’m excited to find out how that reflects in the final round (if the resistance doesn’t manage to get back up in time to disrupt it). 

Despite how much I adored (and SUFFERED WITH) this round, I still have MANY questions that were left unanswered, both about Ivan and Till, and the lore in general, and I wonder if there’ll be time to answer them all, as I can imagine the next MV will be focused on Luka’s perspective, the only one we haven’t been presented with.

One of the most pressing questions being: What’s the relationship between Ivan and that alien dog? Did he tame it? It is implied that it was Ivan who somehow led Till and Mizi to it in the first place in that one scene, and if so I wonder what his motivation was? Normally jealousy would be the first thing to come to mind but Ivan wasn’t interested in Till until AFTER he saw him stand up to the beast to protect Mizi, so it couldn’t have been that. 

This is something that was also teased on Patreon and I was looking forward to the explanation on the MV, but it never came, and now Ivan is dead, so the next video will most likely not be too concerned with his backstory any longer. (Which, also, I was really curious about his life in the slums before being captured, auctioned and brought to Anakt, as that would have played a huge role in his twisted personality/dark tendencies –once again teased on Patreon very briefly, but not explained beyond that frame of him looking famished.)

The second is, how is Ivan able to open Till’s collar/muzzle so easily? This is a question I’ve been having since R3, but chalked it up to Ivan being sneaky and figuring out some kind of code to the cell door and that somehow automatically deactivating the locks on the restraints… or something. But with how many times he does it in R6 with just a touch it’s very clear that that isn’t the case and also imo they’re trying to point this out as a significant detail. 

It may turn out that I’m just looking too much into it, but I find it really curious and interesting. Not only is he the only child without a collar (Mizi and Sua still had them despite being just as well behaved as him), but he seems to be the only one able to take them off –or at least Till’s. I’m pretty sure the children wouldn’t normally be able to remove them by themselves as it seems to be a control mechanism. So how can Ivan? This might explain a lot about how they were able to escape, and also add a layer of tragedy knowing that Ivan could have chosen to escape by himself at any point, but refused to leave Till behind.

Last but not least there’s all the human experimentation Till was subjected to, which was the main topic of the teaser and we see the same images show up in the very beginning of the MV. They help emphasize Till’s suffering and distressed state of mind, but then they’re never expanded on or mentioned at all for the rest of the video. That’s a huge piece of lore that I also hope isn’t forgotten.

I mean, I really doubt it will. So far VIVINOS & co. have been incredible with their ability to hold back information and release it at the moment where it’s the most impactful, which is refreshing to see. So I trust we’ll get some answers eventually. 

Really curious to know why they would experiment on an ALNST contestant in the first place, especially one that is undoubtedly talented and described as a musical genius (aka. has good odds of doing well on stage and earning the segyein revenue). A very plausible theory might just be that he was just getting constantly drugged to make him less of a threat/more submissive –like we see on the karaoke room scene. But it might as well be something bigger.

As for my expectations for the next round… I’m still just trying to process this one, as you can see by the sheer amount of text. There are many things left to address, and the Hyuna/Luka confrontation has been strongly teased. I wonder also, if the round goes on without interruption, what would Luka’s strategy against Till be? Would he go for provocation again, trying to imitate Mizi/hint to his recent trauma with Ivan? It probably won’t be that simple.

I mean, VIVINOS has been known for subverting our expectations with each round:

The ominous/callous framing that was given to Ivan by the end of Black Sorrow and the art that followed, making us suspicious of his intentions, only to have him die for love. The lifeless/doll-like framing given to Luka, vulnerable and cornered by flashing lights, only to have him be the cruelest/most calculating one (that we know so far). The rebellious, rowdy, willing to do anything to survive framing given to Till, only to have his fighting spirit completely break and willingly waiting to die by Ivan’s hands. The naive, complacent and passive image given to Mizi, only to have her snap, beat the shit out of Luka and join the rebellion –and with how things are going (and her being the protagonist) I wouldn’t be surprised if she, and not Hyuna (the one who was framed as the most strong and reliable, giving us a false sense of security going into R6), is who will have to try and rescue Till (and Luka???).

There are still a ton of things that keep me awake at night about R6 –my favorite character dying aside. I could talk about it forever, but I’ll leave it here. 

Feel free to share your theories, delusions, interpretations or any detail I might have missed with me. God knows we need group therapy after this as the cute chibi keychains can only heal us so far. Thanks for reading my rambles if you made it this far. :’)

[cat-giraffe]

hey is it crazy that Mizi is all alone, left with only the memories of Sua a person she loved and cherished deeply the same person with which she had the most fucked up toxic relationship with. A relationship where Sua made Mizi purposefully act oblivious and push down her trauma essentially putting Mizi through her death not only on her death day but everyday leading up to it.

And then Sua dies and Mizi has no one to understand her. And why would they? She's just a pretty face who's always happy, a person who brings you up, a person to idolize.

And i genuinely thought the ending would be Mizi living a good life for the sake of Sua, to keep her memory alive, to not waste her sacrifice.

But turns out that was till, not her.

Because how can u live a good life after this?

Suas sacrifice wasn't out of last minute noble desperation like Ivan, something unplanned and selfless. It was born from a selfish desire to end her own suffering, her own depression, wanting to continue basking under mizis light with no consideration to how mizi would feel cos her life is better and she can survive without her right?

But mizi doesn't get to live on like Till does, finding another meaning and purpose to life. The way that sua and all the fans were convinced she would. If anyone could find a new purpose it would be our innocent yet resilient Mizi right?

The revenge mizi got did absolutely nothing.

The aliens aren't dead.

The rebellion didn't win.

It was hardly a revenge more like a mental breakdown.

And all she's left is a burnt, barely functioning body, all alone in some place no one knows about. Hated by her own kind even though she did nothing but share kindness.

The moment she stopped being a beacon of hope everyone shunned her and deemed her a witch.

How can she even love her beloved Sua after all this? All her sweet memories will now turn sour. While till gains newfound appreciation for Ivan, Mizi will be left with resentment and hate.

how the heck did it turn to this

[tillsfan]

new official arts analysis..

i really like how. doll-like sua looks here. i love when vivimeng depict sua as a husk of a person, dehumanizing her because she really had nothing without mizi.

the sua on the right seems very content, leaning into her reflection. she honestly seems kind of proud in my opinion. this is her satisfied with her decisionto sacrifice herself without mizi’s knowledge, content with the happy lives they lived while they could live it. sua was accepting of her death, happy it would be her and not mizi, because she KNOWS she wouldn’t survive on her own. mizi is strong, sua isn’t. we also know sua is very selfish. maybe she looks so content because she knows mizi will continue to think of her? maybe she’s aware of the impact this would have on mizi, how she will never leave mizi’s mind, making it easier to accept her own sacrifice.

the sua on the left is creepy, soulless. i always imagined this version of sua is mizi’s current perception of her.. sua was still an angel in her eyes, she was literally mizi’s god, but mizi didn’t know as much about sua as she thought. she knew nothing at all. the sua she knows now is not the sua she knew previously, the innocent and happy sua she grew up with. she’s a shell of a person now, haunting mizi’s mind. did sua plan this? how did she know this would happen? why didn’t she tell me? why did she lie to me? i’m sure questions like these are circling in mizi’s mind, never to be answered.

ivan looks. deranged. to start. he’s way more focused on the camera than sua, looking down on us. also unlike sua, he’s sweating and crying(?), and is leaning away from the reflection. this immediately pushes the fact that ivan didn’t exactly plan his death like sua did hers. we’ll never truly know what was going through his mind, but i always felt like his lash out at till was an impulsive decision. he knew one of them was going to die, and when he saw till no longer fighting, he realized the reality that he wouldn’t be able to keep on going without till. so he ran, letting out all his emotions in his final moments. he is also a very selfish character, so i feel he’s ecstatic that in the end, he got to leave a lasting impression on till like he wanted. either that, or he’s grateful he finally got to let out all his emotions towards till, making till suffer yet saving him in his final moments.

another detail i noticed is that the ivan’s hands aren’t touching each other like sua’s, his hands have their backs faced to each other. the ivan on the left isn’t ivan’s true nature, it’s the facade he’s known to have showed those around him. he’s detached from this persona he put up, therefore not touching his palms. he’s also looking at us like he KNOWS something we don’t. unreliable narrator ivan strikes again.

okay so till’s is SIGNIFICANTLY different than both ivan and sua’s. he’s the only one facing away from us, the blood on him not visible. the side of his injury is also facing away from us. there’s also a lack of branding on him. i feel this is the most obvious piece we’ve gotten signifying that he’s going to be alive. they’re deliberately hiding any way for us to see the aftermath of his injury.. vivimeng has been treating till’s supposed death So much more differently than they’ve treated the other characters deaths. in his final comic, his post ‘death’ official art, and now this (which i will elaborate more on in a different post. i have an 10+ paragraph long analysis on why i believe till is alive LOL..)

his reflection is also not a normal mirror—it’s a true mirror. the hand placement isn’t mirrored like ivan and sua’s, it’s as if he’s directly holding out to the till in front of him. i believe he has a true mirror because he has always been true to himself. he never put up a facade or lied like ivan and sua did, as he never needed to. he was always his most authentic self, not only living for another person like the other true, but also for himself. we don’t see the mirror till’s expression, but we can see his mouth. he’s frowning, showing a lack of acceptance to his fate. i genuinely think he’s going to be okay. he’s a fighter, even in this photo, he’s still fighting. he refuses to accept that it’s his time to go, not sparing us a mere glance of assertion regarding his death.

note that i’m not saying these are the true meanings! just how i interpreted it. <3