#why are you defending AFAB transfem bitches

[lesser-vissir]

Why is it that every time trans women stand up for transfem being a politicized category and not an identity that some intersex moron comes in and talks about how mean "perisex trans women" are.

[mycoins]

Ok, let’s talk earnestly ; Why are you okay with a afab harassing transgender girls? Your bio states you are TMA but you continue to defend and be mutually friendly with a user who hates us, explain.

aite so obviously i dunno who you are and i'm not either of these people and i wanna say come back with a warrant but sure let's have a genuine chat

i know it's considered lame online to ask people to do their own research and actually form an opinion based on the reality of what has happened and whatever power has transacted, but the answer to why i feel the way i feel and think the way i think is just... that.

the trans woman i assume we're talking about lied about a black person online inciting death threats against... the creator of homestuck... when he didn't. she shouldn't have done that, and she really shouldn't have doubled down on the idea that she can't be antiblack (especially in the hilarious way she did it)

what is really challenging to me about this ask is the way it is using its identity markers. you say "afab" like tyler isn't a trans person, you reserve the word "transgender" for the girls you are (i'm assuming, i don't know who you are) are close with or "sided" with. my bio "states" i am TMA because I am. you want a selfie, i'll post a selfie.

i am, also, white, as is the transgender woman i assume we're talking about. an identifier you didn't mention for tyler is that he is black. naturally, as white people it should be our responsibility to listen FIRST AND FOREMOST when a black person tells us we are being antiblack. and yes, that SHOULD trump what we perceive as a transphobic microaggression (obviously violent transphobia we shouldn't ignore it.)

see, if it were as simple as you described it in the ask, i wouldn't be so readily defending someone, but it isn't that simple. because of the way i grew up and the people that taught me to be conscientious and sensitive (all the trans women that personally mentored and supported me were black) i just can't stand the idea of wanton ignorance to the subconscious colorism that informs the actions of people.

i can't really address you, the asker, directly because to me you don't actually exist. the only thing i can tell you is i think the way i do because i love trans people, and i want to be good to people who experience vectors of oppression outside my own lived experience. i find ideas of transfeminine separatism to be contrary to everything i've learned about queer unity and liberation.

do i think tyler shoots his mouth of sometimes? yeah, sure. but that's only an irredeemable crime and "harassment" because he's black and people are willing to ignore his identity as trans. do i think trans women on this site are actively harassed and that this site has a MASSIVE bias against transfem ppl? Duh. But this isn't a symptom of that.

i don't even really know why you want MY opinion on this, i'm just some bitch, but there you go. if you wanna talk more you can dm me as long as its in good faith

[unhinged-transmasc-man]

Most of the underlying logic of who gets targeted is "look at these delusional stupid attention-seeking faker girls who wanna be special". Surprise surprise, it's misogyny, which is part of anti-transmasculinity as well. The idea that womanhood and femininity is "inherently more queer and morally pure" means that anyone afab who has a non-woman or masculine/male-leaning identity (especially trans men) are automatically viewed with suspicion and bigotry for being gender traitors. It's a combination of radfem and exclusivity poison.

There's a reason that trans radfems are taking a slur invented by 4chan incels (theyfab) and using it gleefully, when that wouldn't be acceptable in any other circumstance. They aren't just using it towards afab nonbinary people, they're using "theyfab" (along with this TME nonsense) specifically towards trans MEN as a form of violent defending and misgendering. "You aren't real men, you delusional little bitch, except you are also a dangerous predatory male for existing even while I'm actively misgendering you, and it's actually transmisogynistic for you to oppose me using slurs specifically invented by 4chan incels against you. Don't you know you're stealing transfem valor by saying TMEs face transphobia? Transphobia is a LIE created by trans men to disguise that they benefit from oppressing trans women, only trans women face transphobia." (I've seen this last one practically verbatim, absolute wild).

Afab trans people (specifically trans men), bi people, and ace people are considered both overly powerful and influential and oppressive, and also a tiny minority leeching off the "real oppressed queers" (aka trans women who have chosen the "right gender" and cis fem lesbians for being morally pure and only associating with women and femininity, which is why butches are so demonized for liking masculinity). This is fascism!

In the end, it's just the "whiny sjw blue hair and pronouns" that conservatives do, except reinvented to be about "protecting real queer people".

Every few years there’s a shift in the discourse where someone decides that there’s a group of queers who aren’t “really” queer and for reasons unknown decided that they will focus all of their discourse on trying to discredit that one group.

It used to be “straight passing” bisexuals. Then it was “Theyfabs” and “transtrenders”. Then it was “hetero aces.” Now it’s “transmisogyny-exempt” people. And the thing you find every time is that the people writing angry multi-paragraph screeds about how these “invaders” are “stealing resources” or “silencing people” but they can never actually point to more than one or two examples, at best, of this happening.

But if you repeat something enough with a strong enough conviction in your voice, people will pretty much always be willing to think you’re right, even when you aren’t.

This is the basis of fascism. Exclusionary rhetoric is fascist. No one is immune to this thought process. You have to actively work on avoiding it.

“Did you just call me a fascist because I’m concerned with TME people silencing trans women” i mean, yeah. I did. Fix yourself, and I’ll be willing to talk to you again. I won’t apologize for what I said, mind you. But you can always fix yourself.

I used to think like that. I used to talk about how you “need dysphoria to be trans” and how bi people can “pass as straight” and how trans men “take up our space.” And I was wrong about all that.

There’s enough space in the queer community for everyone. We are always stronger when we understand this. Please, look towards unity rather than division. Fix yourselves.

Being wrong doesn’t make you a bad person. Changing your views is not evidence of weakness. Your friends will still live you if you change. Please.

[velvetvexations]

I'm a trans woman and I'm going to tell you why this is a bad OP and you're not a good transfeminist.

this pretty much entirely dissolved when i began to understand those terms not as obligatorily publicized personal descriptors but as tools with a communicative purpose.

It's too bad everyone exclusively uses them as obligatorily publicized personal descriptors that are synonmyous with "trans AMAB" and "trans AFAB"! In fact, just yesterday I saw someone refer to "tme/cis men" lollllll. Of course, considering terms like "transfem" and "non-transfem" still exist, it would remain stupid as fuck anyway. Indeed, it's almost like the POINT is to define another group of trans people - because it's never used to mean anyone else except when explaining it totally means other people to - as being "exempt" from the only transphobia worthy of having a name!

"transmisandry/transandrophobia" concept were treating trans women like complete and utter shit and then making tgirls out to be the instigators.

When and where and how? I want URLs. I'm a trans woman heavily involved in the transandrophobia community so you owe it to me to tell me who's being transmisogynistic and putting me at risk. Who is it? Who's doing it? I hardly ever see anything like that, and when they do I do they've already been swarmed with a million trans men telling them to fuck off, so I'm really curious about who you're talking about that's using transandrophobia as some kinna bludgeon against trans women and having that rewarded rather than harshly punished by everyone else.

Again, I'm a trans woman heavily involved with transandrophobia people! I'm interacting with them every day! If you've discovered these hidden transmisogyny ninja and you claim to care about trans women and how they're treated by transandrophobia discourse, it's a moral imperative that you back up these claims to me.

for this reason i seriously encourage every transmasc who finds themself feeling riled up against trans women to, like, double check the kind of messages and comments the angry girls are getting.

I've seen a lot of trans men get called bitches and outright transphobic slurs and also get rape threats so idk maybe that's bad of everyone to do? Maybe people who claim to be transfeminists shouldn't be doing it either. I think maybe if we accept this logic we've managed to disprove both transandrophobia and transmisogyny, if you're so sure that mean anons are what matters, because I promise you, that that harassment is coming mostly from one side in particular. I personally got tons of anons calling me slurs for trans men saying I was faking being a trans woman.

i promise you, it becomes a lot more evident why those women are describing discomfort or fear or bitterness around trans men when you see the kind of sexually abusive, misogynistic, violent messages they're getting first.

Hey, do you want me to find you examples of TERFs saying this about trans women with wall-to-wall screencaps of them being told to suck gock? Because I can. That's the argument you're making rn.

no, that doesn't excuse every joke or response, but it makes you understand how disproportionate the transmasc reaction can be.

Not how it is. <3

and if you can't find what i'm talking about, you don't see any examples of trans men being misogynistic, literally just ask and i'll be happy to provide as wide a range of examples as possible

Okay, groovy, so you do have to receipts! But, hey, some ground rules, okay? I get to respond with some really nasty, horrible, just downright disgusting stuff leveled at trans men for every example you give, okay? :) And, because I'm nice, I won't cheat and count the thousands of people reblogging the post about murdering all trans men with a bomb and the thousands of reblogs of posts defending it individually, because that'd make whatever cherrypicked no-note bullshit that probably got called out by other "transandrobros" or went completely ignored look extra weak in a way that just isn't fair to you.

there was a brief period of time when i empathized with transandrobros largely out of my personal discomfort as a nonbinary person with the terms tme/tma - this pretty much entirely dissolved when i began to understand those terms not as obligatorily publicized personal descriptors but as tools with a communicative purpose. perhaps more importantly, i learned that most of the people involved with the proliferation of the "transmisandry/transandrophobia" concept were treating trans women like complete and utter shit and then making tgirls out to be the instigators. for this reason i seriously encourage every transmasc who finds themself feeling riled up against trans women to, like, double check the kind of messages and comments the angry girls are getting. i promise you, it becomes a lot more evident why those women are describing discomfort or fear or bitterness around trans men when you see the kind of sexually abusive, misogynistic, violent messages they're getting first. no, that doesn't excuse every joke or response, but it makes you understand how disproportionate the transmasc reaction can be. and if you can't find what i'm talking about, you don't see any examples of trans men being misogynistic, literally just ask and i'll be happy to provide as wide a range of examples as possible