#which. maybe towards the end is middle aged man yaoi. but I’d still just call that yaoi honestly

[seilon]

im glad I haven’t seen anyone calling jayvik old man yaoi on here yet. not just cause its not really accurate but also because that’s disrespectful to silco and vander. like they’re literally right there

[pekorosu]

Interview Translation

Taken from “Akimi Yoshida A to Z: Special Talks and Interviews” pg. 45–54

The World of Yoshida Akimi

From the magazine “Queer Japan” which discusses matters of sexuality and gender.

An interview held by author Fushimi Noriaki is included in this special feature: “The Sexuality of Expression.”

Here, Yoshida Akimi’s works are examined from a different perspective thus far.

(Yoshida Akimi’s “Yasha” was in the middle of serialization in the year 2000)

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First publication: 2000, “Queer Japan” Vol. 2 (Keiso Shobo)

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Am I hurting gay people by drawing about homosexuality?

Fushimi: It’s good to see you again. The last time we met was about 8 years ago, wasn’t it?

Yoshida: Fushimi-san, you’ve aged a little, haven’t you? (laughs) You were more of a lively young university student back then.

Fushimi: I was only in my 20s at that time, after all. I’d just made my debut as a writer, and being an up-and-coming young gay man was basically my selling point (laughs). But more and more youngsters are showing up after me now, so within queer circles1 I’m like that old hag from your in-laws’ family that won’t shut up. Anyway, the reason we got to know each other was because I received a courteous letter from you after sending you a copy of “Private Gay Life.” 2

Yoshida: It was a very interesting read.

Fushimi: I was so surprised, I thought, “Why is such a big shot even replying to someone like me!?”

Yoshida: I think you must be mistaken. Within the manga industry, I’m still considered fresh from the country. I’m pretty much smaller than a small fry (laughs).

Fushimi: What are you saying, sensei? In last year’s manga feature of “Da Vinci”3, “Banana Fish” took first place in popularity polls and even beat all-time classics like “Phoenix” and “The Poe Clan”!

Yoshida: Wasn’t the selection for “Da Vinci” biased to begin with? (laughs)

Fushimi: No, I’m sure everyone in this country has read “Banana Fish”!

Yoshida: That’s not true. I mean, none of my relatives have read it (laughs).

Fushimi: Ahaha, is that so?

Now then, going back to the topic of how we met. In the letter that I received from you at that time, you mentioned that you were worried about being hurtful to gay people because you were drawing about homosexuality in your work. I was surprised to hear that you had those kinds of feelings while drawing.

Yoshida: I’m not gay myself, so while I think that the oppressive weight of falling in love with someone of the same sex is something incredible, it’s not like I understand it in an intimate way. So when people read my works, they might go, “It’s not like that.” There are times when I’ve felt apologetic, thinking about if there are gay readers who’ve found my works offensive.

But the tough part is the other side to it, that is, there just has to be some level of embellishment when it comes to expressing things to the general public, even if it hurts the people in the core group. Somehow, the depiction will always end up exaggerated in some way and because of that, there will always be someone who will get hurt. It’s extremely difficult to strike a balance there, isn’t it?

Fushimi: There’s also the reality of the story’s setting that we have to consider. For example, in “A California Story,” the people who live in New York, they say things like “You shitty faggot!” in their conversations, don’t they? Those are slurs of course, but I think it’s necessary for it to be expressed that way in order to adhere to the story’s reality. It’s to be expected after all, since the intention is to portray those characters realistically.

Yoshida: There’s that too… And there are very basic things like how I might be writing gibberish when portraying how it’s like to fall in love with someone of the same sex, and things like that… Of course, it’s not like I’m drawing it with the intention of hurting people, but I think that saying “I had no bad intentions” is just an excuse to escape responsibility.

Fushimi: It’s the opposite for the Yaoi crowd, isn’t it? Their perspective is that they don’t mean to depict real gay people, so their depiction of “homosexuality” is ultimately imaginary or just a fantasy that exists only in their minds. Have you ever thought of it that way?

Yoshida: Within myself, I have my own yardstick and I split these things into “lies that are okay to tell” and “bad lies.” But I feel like this is an issue that’s going against morals, or rather, maybe it’s reached the point of “a lie that strays from the right path.” I do have a “things I can definitely lie about” category inside myself as well, though.

Fushimi: I’ve had the chance to speak with not just manga artists, but also people who express their creations in various ways. But this is the first time I’ve met someone like you, who is in a sense, extremely proper when it comes to the issue of discrimination. No, I get the feeling that this is probably the first and the last time (laughs).

And so it was after receiving your letter that I was invited to a roundtable with “June.” 4

Yoshida: Right.

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“Banana Fish” is a version of a girls’ soccer team

Fushimi: Within our line, there is a word called “homophobia” which refers to the feeling of hatred or abhorrence of homosexuality. However, when I’m reading your works I sometimes feel a sense of heterophobia, or something like a loathing of heterosexuality, instead of homophobia. Sexual relationships between men and women tend to have a secondary position within your works, don’t they? Even though that’s supposed to be the main theme when it comes to shoujo manga. Is there perhaps something you feel like you want to eliminate when it comes to heterosexual relationships?

Yoshida: Hmm, I’ve never examined myself so I’m not too sure either… For me, I think of action-centric works like “Banana Fish” and “Yasha” which I’m currently working on, as a “version of a girls’ soccer team” (laughs). Girls wanna play soccer too, and outwit their opponents and make a run into space with the ball, that kind of thing (laughs). During my school years, when the guys get to have fun kicking balls and stuff, we girls were made to do some nonsensical creative dance. I was thinking, why do we have to do this sort of ridiculous thing? So maybe this is just a result of all that pent-up resentment (laughs).

Fushimi: You just said “girls’ soccer team” but the central characters in your works are mostly guys, aren’t they? If it’s connected to the idea of a “girls’ soccer team,” why aren’t they girls instead?

Yoshida: That’s because, something just didn’t feel quite right when it came to characterising girls back when I first started out drawing manga. After all, girls were kind of passive, right? Not so much anymore these days, but that was why I had to twist another aspect in order to make that “version of a girls’ soccer team” a reality.

Fushimi: You made your debut in 1977, so it’s been about 20 years since then.

Yoshida: That feels like an eternity ago… ah, I don’t wanna think about it (laughs). But at that time, people like Ms. Takemiya Keiko and Ms. Hagio Moto were drawing about relationships between boys, so it felt like that was an acceptable way to go about it. The manga field is just like the legal field in the sense that, it’s okay as long as there’s a precedent.

Fushimi: Ms. Takemiya and Ms. Hagio used that setting of a relationship between boys within a purely aesthetic world, but in your case, you went for a “girls’ soccer team” vibe (laughs).

Yoshida: That’s how it is when I’m making it into a manga. But the main reason I came to want to draw stories like this was because… back in high school, I saw a revival screening of “Midnight Cowboy” starring Dustin Hoffman. The impact of that movie was astounding. In the same way that a baby chick thinks that the first thing it sees is its mother, I think I now have the tendency to keep trying to replicate that pattern. That movie was really shocking. I can’t forget it even now.

Fushimi: “Midnight Cowboy” is less “aesthetic” and more “dirty” (laughs). It’s a story about the bond between two not-very-beautiful men, isn’t it? It’s not exactly a clear-cut homosexual love either.

Yoshida: That’s right. But, they had a connection that felt like, without each other they would drown and their souls would die, right? It just so happened that they were guys, so I get the feeling that the imprinting has caused me to keep replicating that sort of relationship between men whenever I draw as well. If that had been a movie about two women, maybe I would’ve been drawing about women instead. I don’t know.

Fushimi: That kind of connection… doesn’t it appear in heterosexual, or rather, in romantic and sexual love between men and women as well?5

Yoshida: When it comes to men and women, their romantic energy or their motivations towards each other felt a little different. Even when it’s based on my own experiences. As far as I’m concerned, I think shoujo manga are fundamentally stories about relationships. I think that’s where it differs greatly from shounen manga.

Fushimi: Speaking of relationships, do you perhaps feel that setting it as male/male instead of male/female makes for more interesting drama? Since there’s a barrier against homosexual relationships born out of societal taboos, and it’s precisely because they’re both men that there will be backlash against it.

Yoshida: I think there might be something like that.

Fushimi: Currently within the sociology field, it is said that this is the era where sexual love reigns supreme. However, in your works, sexual love (including heterosexual) seems to take a backseat. More than romance and sex, the connection between souls is of higher priority for you, isn’t it?

Yoshida: I think so. But, I also get the feeling that there’s love and eros and all of that inside a soul.

Fushimi: But in your works, sex between guys don’t get depicted explicitly, yes?

Yoshida: That’s because John Boyd and Dustin Hoffman didn’t have sex. The first thing I saw was like that, so (laughs).

Fushimi: It’s already fixed, like grammar rules (laughs).

Yoshida: It is. It always stops at the very edge (laughs).

Fushimi: By the way, I’m still in a relationship with the same guy as when I met you 8 years ago.

Yoshida: I’m still married too, not divorced. As always (laughs).

Fushimi: At that time, I was interested in sexuality, eroticism, why do people get drawn to each other, why do people have the urge to have sex, and things like that. Lately, I feel like that has already concluded inside me. Instead, what I’m most interested in now is: regardless of whether sexual love has ended, exists or doesn’t exist—do people have a partner that they can never let go of? It’s no longer about why people get drawn to each other, but why can’t they let go? Maybe it’s because I’ve become an old lady (laughs).

Yoshida: I feel the same way too (laughs).

Fushimi: It’s not about sexual love when it comes to long-term connections with people, isn’t it.

Yoshida: It’s not just about sex, but I think it’s definitely there.

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Banana Fish was about to be laid off!?

Fushimi: Your works span all the way from science-fiction stories like “Yasha” to daily life stories like “The Cherry Orchard.”6 You sure have drawers full of stories to tell!

Yoshida: I wonder about that. It feels more like I have lots of shallow, wide but tiny little drawers (laughs).

Fushimi: Shallow? That’s nonsense. All your stories are very deep and meaningful!

When coming up with those stories, do you first decide on things like the characters’ personalities and upbringing, and make plenty of notes as you’re drawing?

Yoshida: Actually, I’ve never made notes. Out of 100 manga artists, there would probably be 100 different ways of drawing manga and I’m sure there are those who are very meticulous about their characters’ backgrounds. But I don’t really do that. Of course, I do sketch out the designs for the characters and show them to my editor before serialisation begins, but I don’t make detailed notes or write out the story. I just get a blank piece of paper and start drawing off the cuff.

Fushimi: For the real thing itself!?

Yoshida: I do sketch out storyboards and stuff, but mostly I just look at the paper and go, “Alright, time to draw!”

Fushimi: Are you able to see something on that blank piece of paper?

Yoshida: Hmm, I’m just getting out whatever’s inside my head. Kind of like downloading.

Fushimi: So you don’t come up with the whole story before drawing it, but instead let the story develop as you’re drawing it?

Yoshida: I do come up with a bit of it at the start, but anything after, I leave up to instinct.

Fushimi: Taking “Banana Fish” as an example, did you not think of the story from the start to the end? Did you not have a fixed composition of the story before starting serialization?

Yoshida: Nope. My thought process was like, “It’s probably something like this” (laughs). In the middle, it became “This way? Or that way?” and that’s how I proceeded.

Fushimi: I believe you’ve been critically acclaimed as a creator for your amazing sense of composition, but it turns out that you don’t draw only after making sure decisions?

Yoshida: Not at all.

Fushimi: In other words, the deadline for “Yasha” that you had been working on until late last night was all based on instinct?

Yoshida: Only instinct (laughs).

Fushimi: Don’t you get scared? Not knowing if you’ll make it to where you need to get to, not knowing if you can fold up the wrapping cloth that you’ve laid out?

Yoshida: Things will work out somehow. That’s just how it is.

Fushimi: So then, “Banana Fish” was in serialisation for about 9 years, but have you ever felt worried or wondered “Is everything going to be okay?” in the middle?

Yoshida: Not at all. The one thing I did worry about was whether it would get discontinued. It’s mostly just that (laughs). My works tend to do badly at polls, so it’s not very good for the magazine.

Fushimi: Huh? Your works? That can’t be true...

Yoshida: It’s true. I’ve almost gotten laid off a few times.

Fushimi: Unbelievable! But your works are all bestsellers!

Yoshida: Sales of the magazine and tankoubon are completely different, so in my case, it’s tough because I do noticeably worse in the magazine department. Even now, I’m working with this constant suspense (laughs). I’d be like, “Editor, please, just one more!” Every time the editor gets changed, I wonder if this is when I’ll get sacked for real. Up until now there have been a couple of times it almost happened.

Fushimi: Whoa, do they just come up to you and say, “I think it should be about time to end the story”?

Yoshida: It’s not even “should be about time,” it’s straight up, “You can stop any time now. It’s just not doing very well.” (laughs) I got told that about twice during “Banana Fish.”

Fushimi: !! No way…... Even though it’s such a famous work that would go down in history…... Absolutely unbelievable…...

Yoshida: Oh no, it happens all the time.

Fushimi: The shoujo manga industry is so harsh, or maybe, they just don’t understand what’s truly valuable.

Yoshida: But that’s how it’s like for everyone in the manga industry. It’s like soccer; the moment the coach gets changed, the fates of the players are changed as well. The players get transferred around based on the coach’s ideal composition.

Fushimi: Huh…… I guess it’s because it’s so unforgiving that good quality works will spring up again. The pure literature world is the complete opposite. We’re not exactly doing important work but the authors are all pampered, so good quality works don’t get produced as much.

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“Lovers' Kiss” is a favourite

Fushimi: This is probably a given, but is the main character your favourite whenever you’re drawing a story?

Yoshida: Hmm, it’s not about like or dislike… but I do feel like they’re the one that I work the hardest on.

Fushimi: I get the feeling that you add more venom when you’re drawing female characters compared to male characters. To quote an example, characters like Sayoko from “Kisshou Tennyo.”7 Or, side characters like Toshi-chan’s sister in “Longer and Slower than a River.”

Yoshida: I wasn’t really aware of that myself.

Fushimi: Do you not like that naggy side of women?

Yoshida: On the contrary, I think I do like it. It’s not so much “venom,” but a deeper, darker side. I don’t actually hate women who are like that.

Fushimi: Who’s your favourite character out of everything you’ve drawn so far?

Yoshida: I like them all in their own ways. After all, they did come from within me. I think it’s hard for me to say who I like best, but… among what I’ve drawn so far especially the more recent ones, personally speaking, it might be those from “Lovers' Kiss.” That’s if I were to disregard popularity. I grew up in Kamakura, so I’ve always wanted to draw a story that’s set there.

Fushimi: I wanted to ask about that too. I think, even if we were to go as far as to consider “Banana Fish” a same-sex love story, it would just be a fanciful depiction. But in the case of “Lovers' Kiss,” it feels like it’s dealing with real life same-sex love. Plus, it’s a work that properly parallels its depiction of homosexual and heterosexual love, isn’t it?

Yoshida: I was sort of conscious of that too. That series does have love as its main theme. “Banana Fish” or my current work “Yasha” are power game stories. Those have “power game” as its main theme, while this one is “love,” so naturally my stance would be different. It becomes a more personal story. When you fall in love with someone, you start to grow afraid of many things, right? That feeling of confusion and hesitation in one’s heart… I find that sort of thing very endearing.

Fushimi: That series is quite popular in the gay community.

Yoshida: Really? That’s nice to know (laughs).

Fushimi: It seems like a real tough feat to come up with just the romantic correlation chart for the characters. Did you think that up at the very beginning?

Yoshida: I actually like that sort of story composition. I did it in “The Cherry Orchard” and even before that. I like the idea of setting a specific location or a world, and then compiling everything that has been captured through different cameras into one story.

Fushimi: It’s such a tender story. You’ve mentioned splitting your works into “power game” and “love” but the characters in either of them are always people who have been hurt, who are trying to figure out how to mend their injured hearts. They’re ultimately stories about self-acceptance, aren’t they?

Yoshida: Yeah, that’s right. People hurt each other, but healing each other is also what people do. Or at least, that’s what I think. Things like pets and music don’t really heal; they merely offer temporary comfort and distraction. I strongly feel that the only thing that can truly heal a person is another person. That’s something I want to believe in.

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Thanks if you’ve read this far! I hope you’ve found it an interesting read, just as I did the original :)

Final disclaimer: I’m not a professional and I’ve translated this to the best of my ability, so please forgive any inaccuracies or mistakes!

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Footnotes that are not marked with "T/L note" are translated from the original interview.

T/L note: ヘンタイ業界 (hentai gyoukai): “Hentai” is probably being used to mean “perverted/abnormal” here, so I’m making an assumption that it’s reclamation of a term used to disparage LGBTQ+ people and went with “queer (circles).” But… now I’m wondering if it’s actually closer to something like “freak industry”? ↩︎

Private Gay Life: Author Fushimi Noriaki came out as gay in this book. It is a book that had a huge impact on the gay movement in the 90s. ↩︎

Da Vinci: A monthly general literature magazine published by Media Factory, beginning in 1994. ↩︎

June: A magazine that published stories and manga based on the theme of “homosexual love between boys” which is called “tanbi.” It was published by Magazine Magazine up until its 87th issue in 1996. Kurimoto Kaoru’s stories have been illustrated by Yoshida Akimi as well. (T/L note: To be clear, June was a BL magazine. Check out the wiki for additional reading.) ↩︎

T/L note: This bit sounds strangely redundant, doesn’t it? I’m not sure why he rephrased “heterosexual” as “romantic/sexual love between men and women” either. It’s possible that I’m missing out on some background context or something, but anyway I tried to keep it as close to the original phrasing as I could. ↩︎

The Cherry Orchard (Sakura no Sono): A short series depicting the daily activities of an all-girls high school drama club that is preparing to put on the play “The Cherry Orchard” for the anniversary of the school’s establishment. Serialised from 1985 to 1986 in LaLa. ↩︎

Kisshou Tennyo: An ambitious work depicting human passion and karma, centering a mysterious girl named Kanou Sayoko. Serialised from 1983 to 1984 in Bessatsu Shoujo Comic. Received the 29th Shogakukan Manga Award. ↩︎