#which is wrong and weird but at least draws an incorrect conclusion from something real (eats weird things and is weird about it)

[blujayonthewing]

why wouldn't he. what about his characterization could possibly indicate otherwise. y'all really just went 'I get it! he's STUPID' and called it a day I hate it here

[silverraindropliliacsky]

For @k0k1ch1111

‘Why me of all people?’ Ouma thought to himself, to his dismay he could come to no immediate conclusion. ‘What does Saihara have to gain by this lame attempt to get to know me. Is he serious? Maybe he’s trying to stake me out, catch me off guard by pretending to be my friend so that I’ll “trust” him like all the other delusional members of this class’ It was no good, every train of thought was met with a counter option that seemed equally as likely. The real issue here was that Kokichi really didn’t know Shuichi all that well yet. On one hand, he had saved everyone's life by outing Kaede as the culprit, ‘easily explained’ he thought to himself. ‘Detective boy just wanted us to think he was on our side and felt no issue about revealing Kaede because he was lying about their friendship. Similar to why he would be lying now… Yeah okay sure he ditched the hat, that could mean nothing.’ He didn’t want to believe it could be Shuichi if he was being honest with himself (he wasn’t) because his instinct was telling him the hunch was incorrect. ‘If Shuichi is the mastermind here then I can’t trust my own instincts!’ No use, Kokichi had been deliberating this idea back and forth in his mind for what seemed like days now, he really had no leads at all. With woe he gazed up at his whiteboard across the room and let out a dramatic sigh as he flopped onto his provided mattress to examine his prospects.

“Well…” he started out loud, despite being alone in his room. “I know it least can’t be these two.” As he spoke he walked over to the board and moved the cutouts of Kaede and Rantoro to the left top corner drawing a sharp arrow from Kaede to Rantoro with his black expo marker. “Because it turns out Kaede had it in her afterall.” There was a pained bitterness in his voice as Kokichi spoke, a long past realization that the situation he… everyone… was in, is real. People are actually going to start killing each other, playing right into Monokumas hands. With desperation daring to hint in his otherwise neutral expression he diligently looked over his other classmates' photos. He had questions, particularly around these three individuals he set over to the far right side of the white board. “Something isn’t right about this one, she’s clearly lying about her ‘Ultimate Talent’ but what’s her motive? It’s suspicious.” Which he was sure to note as such by writing the word suspicious aside Maki’s photo. He nodded in approval as he compared the word to her face. “And you..” Ouma started, his eyes shifting over to Kiibo’s portrait. “Are weird.” The statement was made plainly and with a certain matter of fact quality that Kokichi felt no need to further elaborate. It should be obvious, why the hell is there a robot amongst us. ‘Most likely a spy of some kind’ Kokichi thought flippantly. ‘The only other robotic beings we’ve seen are Monokuma and his annoying cub henchmen.’ There were no inner protests as he marked the word ‘Weird' beside Kiibos' photo. For good measure he also added the word ‘Annoying’ above the photo cut outs of cubs.

“And you.” As he spoke he could feel his resolve faltering slightly, which was irritating him but he continued nonetheless as he observed Shuichi’s photo and attempted to remain critical. Kokichi crossed his arms and raised his thumb to the space between his chin and lower lip as the same questions came flooding back into the teens brain, causing Ouma to bite his lip in frustration. “I need more information.” A simple declaration.

…

Kokichi squatted down by the greenery beside the dormitory building and began his stake out. His objective? Hiding in plain sight. If anyone approached him he could easily say some lie about wanting to find a bug to prove Gontas' no bug theory wrong. Or he could tell the truth, they’d probably assume he was lying either way so there was no need to sneak around. As if on queue Saihara exited the building, noticing Kokichi squatting in the grass immediately. The two boys stared at each other momentarily with blank expressions. The exchange lasted only a mere two seconds but it felt like a thousand words could have been exchanged between the two. It was Shuichi who broke the silence, “Ah, Kokichi, hello what are you up too?”

Kokichi immediately stood up straight and threw his hands behind his head leaning backwards in an incredibly nonchalant manner. He let out his signature laugh and responded, “Nyhehe! So you wanna talk to me, eh? You must be pretty reckless, Shuichi! I'm the Ultimate Supreme Leader, y'know?”

“So you’ve said…” Saihara’s expression was challenging yet sympathetic, as it often is. Kokichi really disliked the way Shuichi looked at him sometimes. As if he could see through him. As if, maybe, he knew more than he was letting on. Well Kokichi wouldn’t give him the satisfaction and retorted back, “Oh wow, y’know Shuichi if I were you I’d probably have come here to beg for my life.” Kokichi spoke plainly, as if what he was saying could have merit. Shuichi sighed looking a bit defeated and thrown off at the same time, “H-hold on now, why would I do that?”

“Huh? I told you already last time, remember Detective? I have to keep my Organization a secret! No one from outside the syndicate can know about us, soooo… I’m probably gonna have to kill you.”

Shuichi didn’t respond, he just looked at Kokichi with an unknowing expression, probably deciding whether or not to take Kokichi seriously. Quickly Kokichi spoke again, “Weeeell, do it already! Get on the ground and beg like a dog! Ooooh, I wanna see you slit your stomach too! C'mon! Do it, pwetty pweeeease!?” Kokichi exclaimed with stars in his eyes as he made an over dramatic pose to express his enthusiasm to the idea.

“Kokichi!” Shuichi firmly exclaimed, “If I did that, then I would definitely die!“

“Aww booorning, you’re no fun I guess you caught me, okay how about this then: If you wanna live, you have to complete my quest”

Again Shuichi looked at him with uneasy sternness. “A quest?”

“Nyehehe! I knew you’d be up for it! Okay ready? Your quest is��� Make me Dinner!!!”

Shuichi visibly relaxed, getting the sense that maybe that’s what Koichi had wanted all along?

“Kokichi, can’t you make your own food?”

“Nyu-uh! I’m used to having food always available being served to me whenever I need it! It’s been a big culture shock coming here, I’d normally ask Kirumi but she told me she was busy.”

“... Is that why you were waiting out here in the grass? Were you waiting to ask me to make you food?” Shuichi spoke with disbelief but this was still the lie he was choosing to believe so Kokichi just laughed in response. “Kyhahaha, y’got me! “ Shuichi rolled his eyes but did agree to go to secure a meal for his classmate, even if he didn’t exactly believe everything Kokichi had just said. The second Shuichi had left his sight, Kokichi snuck into his room, picking the lock to get in. (This would be the first of many times this would occur.) He quietly shut and locked the door behind him and examined the room. The first thing he noticed was that it was incredibly clean and organized, the bed had been made, no clothes, no decorations, no trinkets or anything at all except for the shelves of Monokuma figurines. There were only a few on the shelf but it was clear the intention was to fill it up. A chill went down Kokichis spine, this room was too suspicious. There’s no way the real mastermind would be so blatantly stupid to advertise their devotion to Monokuma in their own bedroom… would they? Maybe a hiding in plain sight situation? Kokichi walked up to Saiharas desk and flipped through his note book, pausing on a page that happened to be about him,

Kokichi Ouma and I grew a little closer today… I don’t know what it is about that guy, I don’t understand him. It’s like everything he says has a hidden meaning, It can be so exhausting talking to him. In a way, I actually think I enjoy it, he isn’t easy to read, he’s challenging. If we weren’t in the situation we were in, he and I may have even been friends, if he would just take the situation seriously and stop messing with everyone's heads. How can we trust someone who is like that? I want to keep talking to him, to see if I can get a better understanding of him. He told me he was the leader of an organization known as “D.I.C.E.” and they control the underground and all major crime syndicates, however, something tells me this isn’t the entire truth. I don’t think Kokichi is dangerous, His actions so far have led me to suspect he isn’t the murdering kind. He just wants us to think he is… why I wonder?

Kokichi scoffed and shut the notebook, ‘Friends? He seriously thinks we can be friends?’ Despite his thoughts he couldn’t fully ignore the way his heart rate had increased upon reading those words. ‘Friends… seriously?’

He was struck from thought by the sound of the door unlocking. If his heart hadn’t been racing before he definitely couldn’t deny it now as he rushed to hide, immediately deciding on the closet out of instinct alone. As soon as he was securely hidden the door was already open and Shuichi had walked into his room and laid down on his bed with a certain harrumph. Kokichi could catch glimpses of Shuichi’s figure through the cracks of the closet and choose to quietly observe his classmate. He noticed how Shuichi had brought his hands to his face and was sighing, no maybe he was shaking? Then he heard it, he was crying. Shuichi seriously came back to his room in the middle of his quest to … cry? Kokichi remained neutral as he watched Shuichi sit up on the bed and wipe his tears away. He walked to his desk and sat down to begin writing. After about 6 minutes or so Shuchi had gotten up again and walked into the bathroom. ‘This is it’ Kokichi thought as his muscles tensed up readying themselves for movement. The moment Shuichi had shut the door Kokichi had opened his. He quickly and quietly left the room and as much as he wanted to see what Shuichi wrote he would have to hold off for now or risk getting caught. He quickly left the room and dashed over to his door carefully watching to make sure no one saw his escape. Upon arriving at his door he noticed a small box on the floor with a tiny white note attached to the top. Ouma swiped the box from the ground and brought it into his dorm, locking his door behind him. ‘What is this’ He grabbed the note card first and read aloud

Sorry I couldn’t find you, hope this means we’re even now.

- Shuichi

Kokichi examined the note thoroughly and then set it aside, he carefully opened the box and inside he found a plate of sweet and spicy curry. ‘It could be poison’ It could… Kokichis stomach growled in response to his apprehension. Reluctantly he sat down and stared at the food, and at the note. He recalled what he observed in Shuichi's dorm. Suddenly and without warning his hand raised a spoon full of his favorite meal to his mouth.

He audibly gasped, “My own arm, betrays me!... Okay fine I’ll try it.” He hesitantly took the bite and….

“And…”

and…

“And…”

…

“and nothing”

Kokichi sighed in relief and finished the whole plate. Thoroughly satisfied he walked back over to his white board and hesitantly added “Trustworthy??” beside Shuichi's photo.

He then collapsed onto his own bed and curled himself into a ball of sorts, as he sorted through all the information of the day his mind (and heart) continued to land back on shuichi. ‘Maybe…’

[tanadrin]

@bpd-anon:

I think I agree on some points and disagree on others but mostly I would love an expansion of this part: "I don’t think he actually understands fantasy as a set of generic conventions as well as he thinks he does." Can you explain the parts that he is misunderstanding and what true understanding looks like?  

For some context, I have never seen GOT. I read the first book and it's tied for my favorite book ever but then college and its stress hit and I mostly stopped reading (same reason Blindsight is another favorite book ever but I haven't read Echopraxia). I mostly read science fiction books and I haven't even read the all-important LOTR (mainly because I hear there isn't any moral greyness, sounds boring). 

Martin has said things like this:

“I admire Tolkien greatly. His books had enormous influence on me. And the trope that he sort of established—the idea of the Dark Lord and his Evil Minions—in the hands of lesser writers over the years and decades has not served the genre well. It has been beaten to death. The battle of good and evil is a great subject for any book and certainly for a fantasy book, but I think ultimately the battle between good and evil is weighed within the individual human heart and not necessarily between an army of people dressed in white and an army of people dressed in black. When I look at the world, I see that most real living breathing human beings are grey.”     

“Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?” 

“By the time I got to Mines of Moria I decided this was the greatest book I’d ever read… And then Gandalf dies! I can’t explain the impact that had on me at 13. You can’t kill Gandalf… Tolkien just broke that rule, and I’ll love him forever for it. The minute you kill Gandalf, the suspense of everything that follows is 1,000 times greater. Because now anybody could die. Of course, it’s had a profound effect on my own willingness to kill characters at the drop of a hat.” 

Taken together, Martin is one of the people I’m thinking most of when I say things like “nobody reads Tolkien, only their caricatures of Tolkien.” About the only thing I can say for him is that he’s right on Tolkien being about an external battle of Good versus Evil a lot of the time; though for my part, Martin’s world doesn’t come off so much as Gray versus Gray as Evil versus Evil, and a lot of what he seems to take for “moral ambiguity” to me is perfectly unambiguous: they’re all (or mostly) villains, doing villainy things to each other. Sometimes for quite human reasons; but the best villains have comprehensible motivations beyond pure evil. Doesn’t make them not villains.

First of all, he’s simply nakedly incorrect that Tolkien never considered the difficulties of rule, or never looked at the practical aspects of his worldbuilding. They don’t come in much for emphasis, but they’re absolutely there (most notably in the scenes set in Minas Tirith, in the run-up to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields), and indeed the moral nature of the Orcs, and therefore the correct stance to take toward them, was of deep concern to him, and subject to a lot of later revision as he struggled with the idea of what we would now refer to as an Always Chaotic Evil fantasy race.

Tolkien certainly critically interrogates the morality and moral authority of rulership. In the Silmarillion, he has plenty of figures who cut heroic profiles but make bad (or at least ambiguous) kings, with much resulting conflict; and indeed, that ambivalence is something he’s in part borrowing from his medieval sources! To say that the medievals had a totally black-and-white view of kingship is to betray a lack of familiarity with actual medieval writers, who even (especially?) in the Early Middle Ages are adept at portraying leaders with powerful qualities that turn against them in the wrong situation. Beorhtnoth, the heroes of Njal’s Saga, and Beowulf would have all been extremely familiar to Tolkien, and are good examples I think. Tolkien absolutely understood that people come in shades of gray, and there are various admixtures of light and dark in almost all his characters. Even Frodo for Chrissakes puts on the Ring at the end--and Gollum redeems him. Like, come on! That’s one of the most memorable parts of the main trilogy! But from Galadriel right down to the Sackville-Bagginses, Tolkien is intensely conscious of the moral complexity of everybody in his stories, he just doesn’t need them to say “fuck” in order to express that.

What Martin seems to have confused for Tolkien is, like, the semi-mythic style of Arthurian romance (which... is still not always super black and white?), which is only a small part of the generic conventions Tolkien is drawing on. Tolkien is much more steeped in the conventions of the realist novel, with its penchant for psychological complexity, even as he’s borrowing the setpieces of older literature. I think that’s important because it’s what marks Tolkien out as a fundamentally modern writer, despite his sources; yet people skate over this and like to pretend he was some kind of reverse Connecticut Yankee who stumbled out of the 13th century with medieval sensibilities intact. Which is... weird.

The quote about Gandalf is especially telling. Gandalf’s death happens for extremely clear structural reasons: it provides a climax to Book II (if you’ve never read LOTR: each volume is divided into two “books”; the three-volume split was a post-writing publication decision, LOTR was originally written as a single continuous unit, and the “books” are like mega-chapters), much like, but stronger than, the Flight to the Ford at the end of Book I; it sets up the sojurn in Lorien (recovering from the trauma of the loss of their nominal leader); it helps the narrative transition from the low-stakes, bucolic setting of everything west of the Misty Mountains to the high-stakes dangers of the rest of the story; and it serves the conclusion of the story because without Gandalf’s sacrifice (plus many other events), the Ring never would have made it to Mount Doom. Also, not to put too fine a point on it, but Gandalf comes back, in a way that feels sensible within the world Tolkien has built, and which sets up further development of both the main plot and the the themes Tolkien is concerned with.

If Martin had written Lord of the Rings, Gandalf would have died to a random Orc arrow, would never have come back, and the Ring wouldn’t have made it to Mount Doom at all. And you’d be left feeling like Gandalf dies for basically no reason--and you’d be right. The suspense in Lord of the Rings doesn’t come from wondering who will die (the only major named characters who die permanently are Boromir and Gollum; both similarly serve important thematic and plot functions when they do, but by Martin’s standard, Tolkien isn’t even trying), or wondering how things will turn out--does anyone ever doubt that the good guys will win?--it comes from seeing how they get there, from wanting to experience the emotional and narrative beats of the story, wanting to see the narrative logic being brought to its conclusion. It’s why it’s a good story even if you know the ending! And all of Tolkien’s work is like that: a well-constructed narrative that is perennially satisfying is far better than a one-off surprise that can never be repeated. That’s a mistake a lot of modern media is making right now, which the rise of undue emphasis on spoilers isn’t doing anything to reduce.

More generally: there’s nothing wrong with high fantasy externalizing the conflict between good and evil. That is in fact one of its functions, as a kind of moral metaphor or moral proving ground in the same way that, say, science fiction often serves as moral and philosophical proving ground for ideas around technology or exploration or the alien. It’s not obligatory, but to cite that as an insufficiency of any work in the genre is to fail to understand the genre. Tolkien specifically provides some arch moral figures (Morgoth, Sauron, Manwe, Aragorn), but he also provides some much more mixed ones: Denethor, Saruman, Grima Wormtongue, Boromir, Gollum, etc. (also Thorin, Feanor and his sons, and in fact just like a huge chunk of the cast of the Silmarillion in general), and gives his characters plenty of opportunity to reflect that, even in a conflict with a literal evil spirit, there is room for ambiguity (cf. Sam’s meditation on the Haradrim in Ithilien). And the sum total of the effect in Tolkien’s work is that it actually feels like something is at stake. I don’t feel like that in Martin’s world. I feel like if the Night King were just to destroy all of Westeros that would make as much sense and be about as satisfying as any other outcome, because there’s nothing that feels especially worth preserving there.

In discarding everything about both the moral and narrative structure of high fantasy, Martin’s world leaves nothing for one to hang one’s hat on, nothing to use as a fixed point of reference when it comes to orienting yourself in it; he is writing a critique against many things, perhaps, but not an argument for anything. The result leaves me quite cold.