#which is represented in Quaritch
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We don’t hate Spider because he’s “annoying”. We hate spider because he’s another iteration of a white guy “going native” becoming “native at heart,” unironically cosplaying as native (to the extent he even paints his skin with their NATURAL PATTERNS).
#yes there are complexities with how he wants to distance himself from human atrocities#which is represented in Quaritch#his father#but indigenous people and people of color have. right to be annoyed with or even hate him#he’s been exposed to ‘good’ human’s like the scientists#they’ve shown him how one can move on from their atrocities and become important allies#but no#he ‘absolutely HAS TO’ cosplay as the Na’vi#okay jimbo#food for thought#atwow
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If you think Spider saved Quaritch for no reason you’re wrong, like entirely. Spider is 16. Keep that in mind for all of this. 16. Your brain finishes developing in your mid-20’s, Spider is still a teenager.
More below the cut cause I know people hate scrolling for ages through long text posts lol
Spider is a teenager that has grown up never fitting in, physically he’s human, but he’s grown up with the Na’vi and so the way he acts and thinks is that of the Na’vi. Because of this he simply will never fit in, he will always be an outsider no matter what he does. This is a child that is viewed as different and wrong in many ways, those he looks up to look down on him in all possible ways, quite literally treating him as a stray rather than a child. No, Neytiri and Jake have no obligation to raise or treat him like one of the family but as adults they do have an obligation to ensure a child is being raised right and being treated right, all adults have that no matter who they are.
So you take a child that feels like an outsider, doesn’t fit in, is mentally struggling and you have him kidnapped by the RDA and a man who is technically his father, have a guess what happens. Yeah, he gets more fucked up. I don’t know what the fuck that thought extractor machine thing is but it’s looks horrific, if Spider didn’t have epilepsy before I’m willing to bet he does now. And in this time of torture, imprisonment and fear it’s not Jake or anyone else from the camp that come save him, it’s Quaritch. Quaritch saves him, that instantly creates a bond as Quaritch gives him a freedom and safety he wouldn’t get otherwise.
With Quaritch Spider gets freedom, he can test the limits as all children will, he gets to ride on an ikran right at the front as though he was flying it, Spider gets to see even more of Pandora. Not to mention literally no one came for him, the adults (and I mean all of them not just the Jake and Neytiri) abandoned him despite knowing that the RDA is cruel enough to torture a child, they knew what he might be facing and they just left him. This kid must be in mental hell.
And it all crescendos when Neytiri tries to kill him. I do not care what you say Neytiri was justified in killing every single person on that ship brutally, they all deserved it but not Spider. He’s a teenager and innocent, she was not justified in doing that. I’m not here to shit on Neytiri though, she’s an incredibly complex and deep character written beautifully and I adore her, but that doesn’t mean wrongful actions can’t be recognised.
Which perfectly leads us to the moment. Spider is underwater, there isn’t time to think only time to act and Spider, traumatised and scared, does. And he does the stupid move of saving Quaritch. But as I’ve said he had a reason to do it, a motivation, just as Neytiri had one to put a blade to his neck.
Spider saving Quaritch does not represent the failings of his morals and his character but instead represent the failings of those around him, the scientists had an obligation to raise him and at the very least Jake had an obligation to ensure a child wasn’t being damaged mentally as he grew up, both failed in doing this and as a result a teenager was pushed to the point of breaking and he did.
Spider is not a bad kid. Neytiri is not a bad person. Jake is not a bad father. All of these can be true and so can the fact that they each did the wrong thing, and that’s a fact.
All it takes is:
Jake: Hey Norm, Spiders been hanging around the kids a lot more and I’m worried some issues might start developing, mind checking in on him?
Norm: Yeah sure Jake, no problem.
And then he talks to Spider and they can find a way to help him with his issues. That’s it! Easy.
#avatar the way of water#james cameron avatar#avatar 2009#jake sully#neytiri#spider socorro#norm spellman#miles quaritch#all adults have an obligation to ensure children related or not are growing up in a safe environment#where there mental physical and emotional health are all cared for#it’s not just a ‘kind’ thing to do it’s the morally correct thing#children are innocent by default they shouldn’t suffer#btw this is NOT Neytiri hate#keep that shit off my blog
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I need more theories about Avatar 3 because I'm going to go crazy until the premiere 😭 I'm so curious how Spider will react if Quaritch really joins Ash's na'vi or worse kidnaps him again and forces him to join too
Let me just get my hat on *rustles of foil*
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To put it simply I think if Spider was to find out Quaritch had joined the Ash clans, he’d be a mess of conflicting emotions: both pride at the fact his ‘not-dad’ is capable of connecting with Pandora and the Na’vi like that but also, from the nature of the ash people, be disappointed in who he has decided to connect with.
But for comedic effect here’s the initial reaction:
‘Quaritch joined the Na’vi’
Spider: YES!
‘It’s the Ash people’
Spider: FUCK!
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Quaritch would, in my mind, definitely try to make his ‘totallynotmyson-son’ live with him, because being accepted by a group of Na’vi is what Spider wants right? But of course spider is a gentle person whose closest friend maybe the embodiment of Eywa herself, he wouldn’t want to be apart of a culture that values cruelty like severing and wearing kurus as trophies, or potentially having any affiliation with the RDA/human side of the war - who the ash people may be allying with.
I feel like the Metkayina will be where spider finds himself as a man and their pacifistic way of life being antithetical to his biological father would only attract him further.
The ash people will likely be the Opposite to everything the reef people & tulkun represent, much like their opposing elements - and while spider is a warrior at heart with an ever burning fire that may endear him to the ash people, I just can’t think he would be on board, though he would again feel conflicted if they were completely ready to accept him despite of all his differences. Everything he wants if he leaves behind who he is.
If Quaritch forced Spider to join the ash clans (which I don’t think it’d get quite that far but not for lack of trying on Mile’s part), Spider would resent his father for making him join the clan that’s trying to kill his ‘people’ (kiri, Lo’ak & etc…). It would, from in spider’s point of view, be little different from being forced to join the RDA directly.
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Extra theory:
Themes of this film will likely be about war, forgiveness & rebirth.
War - obvious reasons but specifically about the cycle of violence of being wronged so you must take revenge which then creates the feedback loop of conflict that never ends. The ash people were likely on the losing side of a conflict/ many conflicts a long time ago and they still hold one hell of a grudge - which is why they’ll join the humans to defeat their ‘shared’ enemies.
Forgiveness - this is Neytiri’s theme, she needs to learn to let the past go in order to achieve inner peace and move on in her life without holding onto all that pain and anger. Especially towards Spider, where she’ll see that the ash people are the result of this blind hatred for the actions of one’s ancestors being put upon an innocent party. How petty & pointless it really is, especially how it can poison a person’s soul overtime. She doesn’t need to forget but to recognise that Spider and many humans are not all guilty of the crimes of a few terrible people. Maybe this will even aid in her journey to understanding humanities plight on Earth?
Rebirth - I’ve said before with project phoenix and the cultural symbolism of fire, there are huge indicators for rebirth to be a major theme and I think that will be Quaritch’s theme going forward as he sheds the identity of the human Quaritch and becomes the Na’vi man he lives as now, whether that is with the ash people or not is another matter but I think they will be crucial in finding his connection with Pandora, with Varang as a key point in this journey.
I also think from the leaks of spider that rebirth will be apart of his character arc, overcoming the limitations of his human body to truly be apart of Pandora. And kiri who could be reborn as the Avatar of Eywa herself.
#thanks for the ask!#avatar 3#ash people#avatar 3 speculation#jc avatar#varang#avatar varang#fire na’vi#miles quaritch#recombinant miles quaritch#spider socorro#kiri te suli kìreysì'ite#neytiri#avatar 3 theories#avatar 3 leaks#avatar 3 spoilers#just some ramblings#my narrative compass may be broken#media literacy#it’s an art#that I don’t know if I have#I’m just obsessed with Varang is it too noticeable?
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Avatar fandom on TikTok is scaring me so I am going to teach you all media literacy if it kills me.
I steadfastly believe that the Neytiri/Quaritch/Spider trio is the most interesting and layered character development JC has going for him rn. Ya’ll not having the basic human empathy to understand Spider or Neytiri’s povs is freaking me out.
First, Neytiri. Neytiri is someone who has lost half her family, half her clan, and the only home she’s ever known to an oppressive colonizing force. Quaritch is the physical representation of all that pain and loss. He had not only killed countless Na’vi, killed Grace, tried to destroy their connection to all of their ancestors, and is the person who destroyed her home and killed her father, he is also the person who almost killed Jake. He also in a way, represents Jake’s betrayal. We forget, but Jake did betray Neytiri. He stayed with the Omaticaya knowing what Quaritch and Parker Selfridge had planned for them, feeding them information about their home and their strengths, and she forgave him, but Na’vi mate for life and he didn’t disclose that vital information beforehand. Jake was working and spying directly for Quaritch. He represents that hurt. For her, Spider is like a ticking time bomb. He is around her kids and she can’t ever feel safe with this child, this human child of her worst enemy who has caused all of the worst things in her life, in her life and with her family. She tolerates him for her kids but that’s it. I think her mindset totally makes sense, and I really hope she’s able to see past his parentage and accept him!
Spider is a child. He is not responsible for the actions of his parents, obviously. He has spent his entire life being raised by people that really don’t want anything to do with him. He has been basically a burden his entire life. The scientists were forced to keep him because he was too young to send to Earth, and the Sully’s were not equipped (and did not really try) to take on a human child. They are basically his family, but they don’t treat him as such. Everything that happens with Quaritch is Stockholm syndrome times 10000. And the opposite for Quaritch, which is Lima syndrome. This kid has never had an adult show him care or affection, and now he’s getting it from a weird reanimated clone of his father in a kidapping/hostage situation. Quaritch’s first move is to take Spider from torture. He says you can come with me or you can be tortured. He conditions him from the get go, that’s bad stuff here is good stuff. Even more importantly, in Spider’s eyes he saves his life from Neytiri. I would LOVE to know later if she intended to kill him (pls check out my post on my opinion on the significance of the cut on his chest) but regardless, Spider thinks she did and that Quaritch saved him. Regardless of his motives and how bad of a person he is (irredeemably sorry Quaritch girlies), Spider can’t leave him to die. It’s such a hard decision for him, but he’s a kid and a good person. One who values life like all Na’vi are taught to. And he still leaves him to go back to the Sully’s, who have not bothered to even try to be concerned about him outside of the kids.
I’m not even gonna get too far into Quaritch, because I know there’s a lot of Quaritch stans out there now which does boggle my mind. But, as awful of a person as he is, he is a super super interesting character in this movie. In the first movie, he is a blatant representation of racism and colonialism in the worst sense, in a way that makes him a great villain but not a very layered character. He is a foil for Jake, showing us the worst of Jake in an outside antagonist. It’s easy to forget by AWOW that Jake used to have a similar mindset to Quaritch. Placing Quaritch in the body of those he fears and hates the most I think is a very fun twist. But what I really loved was his fear of Neytiri and how much that is highlighted in the film. The way he looks at her arrows is just spine chilling, and I can’t wait to see her kill him again because I can’t see it culminating any other way.
The other thing relating to this is Spider’s fear of Neytiri. Her mistrust and fear of him had been a block in his life basically since birth. Her kids love and accept him as a brother easily, and Jake keeps him at arms length for Neytiri (which is a whole Jake issue but we can get into Jake another time). Neytiri stands between Spider and the family he’s always wanted, and him seeing her fight and just backing up in fear before she grabs him is so good, just a great culmination of all events. What I’d love to see from it is Neytiri and Spider having to come to terms with their fear of the other in order to move on and create a family unit. A son for a son, right, Quaritch gets Neteyam killed so Neytiri, Quaritch’s biggest fear, gets what he wants right now, which is Spider.
#i love our sully besties but they have very basic storylines rn#come on#30 minutes into the movie it's clear neteyam's dead and loak is gonna have to have a big moment with jake and that kiri is jesus#weve seen those movies 1000 times james#i don't think quaritch would be a good parent but i think he wants spider#and i think that's jsut fantastic if a son for a son for neytiri means she just is like nah my kid fuck u#but anyways#turned into a tiny bit of speculation at the end but mostly#thank you for learning media literacy with me today tiktok u scare me#neytiri#miles spider socorro#miles socorro#miles quaritch#avatar#avatar the way of water#james cameron avatar#james cameron#melissa on avatar (cameron)#melissa og
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The further and further they flew from the forest, the more dread bubbled up within Jake’s stomach. This was the wrong choice, he was suddenly so aware of that, this was the wrong choice. What the fuck was he thinking, letting Spider decide something like this?
That had been the deciding factor on leaving—Spider’s declaration to Jake months ago.
If anything happens, don’t come for me .
Jake should have fought against it more, should have grabbed the boy by the shoulders and refused his request, but it had come after a raid in which five Na’vi had been killed and a single human had been captured—a former soldier who had stayed behind all those years ago to stay with their scientist wife here on Eywa’eveng. It had been the first time a human had been captured and the possibility set everyone on edge until the dam had broken: the RDA had dumped their body on the edge of the forest and had been given no answers from them.
Still, despite the soldier’s resolve, the humans had made a vow to the Omatikaya—they would speak nothing and expected no rescue. They would rather die than give up the people, our people Norm had said resolutely at the time. That had been that, but, then, later, Spider had approached Jake. The idea was ridiculous, foolish as anything. He couldn’t just leaveSpider behind. Couldn’t let him be tortured or killed; though Jake was sure the RDA wouldn’t do such a thing to a child. They were cruel, but Spider was a human child. They would have sympathy for him. It would be hard, but Jake was sure he could find a way to save Spider if it ever came to it.
“Jake, no ,” Spider had practically hissed out, his teeth bared, Na’vi in everything but body as he stared up at Jake. “I will not be the person who causes any Na’vi to be hurt. Promise me, Jake. Please. If anything happens, don’t come for me.”
Jake’s words had come out choked, as though some invisible force had gotten him in a vice grip as he answered, “okay, okay,” just to get the kid to shut up. The possibility of Spider getting caught was—he didn’t want to think it could ever happen. Besides, he couldn’t leave Spider behind. Not when he was like a—
The boy was represented in his songcord, same as Kiri. Same as all of his children.
That meant something.
Spider meant something.
But, Jake had agreed. He had said yes, okay, okay,and when the day finally came, that same gripping fear had overtaken him and he had taken the easy way out: he ran. He listened to Spider’s plea to be left behind and banked on the fact that he was just a kid. He was sixteen, only sixteen, just a boy. He was tough too. Jake had seen the kid fall out of trees and roughhouse with his kids plenty of times. He always got back up again. It would be mentally taxing to be taken prisoner, but Spider was human. He was a human. He was a child. He would be treated fairly.
Jake repeated these words over and over in his mind as his ikran weaved through the air, the creature seeking momentary comfort as it bumped its wings with Neytiri’s ikran. His wife glanced at him, teartracks on her face. They stared at one another for a long moment before Jake reached out his arm, his ikran Bob edging as close as he could to Neytiri. She reached out, their fingers a whisper of a breath away from each other before she was able to cling to his fingers.
There was nothing for them to say. Neither of them were alright with leaving; Neytiri couldn’t bear to leave the forest that raised her and Jake couldn’t reconcile with the fact that he left a sixteen year old boy in the hands of the RDA. With—whatever that resurrected verison of the man Jake knew as Quaritch was. Fuck.
Jake closed his eyes, letting himself feel nothing but the buffeting wind and Neytiri’s hand in his, then let go.
The children were acclimating well to their new environment.
The only one of the children who seemed the most out of place, despite how hard he tried not to, was Neteyam. He attended to his chores and learned with his siblings, but some days Jake would look at his son and see that same sadness in his eyes that Neytiri held. The four of them generally stuck together, but the few hiccups they had were—bad.
The stress of it all made Jake feel at his worst.
Tuk would wake him up in the middle of the night, crying, and trying her best to be as quiet as possible. Lo’ak was getting himself into trouble, what with fighting the Olo’eyktan’s son and swimming around with a banished Tulkun. And Kiri—he could see how hurt she was that Spider wasn’t around.
All he wanted was to keep them safe. He had no fucking clue if, out in the middle of the water, Quaritch would catch up with them. The man was a devil. He had no care for people or children. Besides, while it was clear he had orders to find Jake, his vendetta was personal. Jake didn’t know what this avatar version of Quaritch knew, but it had to be enough to have such a visceral reaction to him and Neytiri. He wouldn’t hesitate to hurt one of Jake’s children, to use them against him. He had already tried.
They had to keep low, keep their heads down, keep the peace.
Jake couldn’t have any more on his conscience. He just needed to keep what was left of his family safe.
It hurt that there was one person missing from them, but Jake had to have faith that Spider was alright. He’s tough , he reminded himself again and again as the days passed, he’s strong. It wasn’t the assurance he hoped it would be. Some days, Jake would sit by himself near the shore and pray to Eywa that She would keep Spider safe. That they would be reunited in some way. He prayed that him leaving the boy behind wasn’t a mistake, that his being ruled by fear hadn’t broken the boy. He would pray and pray until his knees became numb from the weight of his body, the familiar feeling becoming a self-imposed punishment.
He was a coward.
It was during one of those moments that his youngest daughter found him. His legs were nothing between him and the sand, his eyes closed as his lips moved in quiet prayer to the Great Mother. A small hand on his back startled him and Jake turned to see Tuktirey. She was wearing a new top that her brothers had made for her. Shining shells were woven into the top. When the boys had given it to her, Tuk had grinned and held it up towards the sun to see all the colors that emitted from it.
With her toothy smile and shining top, Tuk was too bright for Jake to look at while his sorrow took him over. His daughter tilted her head to the side, watching him for a long moment before settling herself in his lap. “It’s okay to be sad, Daddy,” Tuk said quietly as she soothed at his back. Her hand was so small and her words were a repetition, the very same he would tell her whenever he found her crying. A beat passed before Tuk, all big eyes and with a youngness that Jake never wanted to see taken away from her, asked, “Do you miss Spider, too?”
The answer was easy: “Yes,” Jake replied as all of his regret and fear and sadness clung to his heart. “Yes.”
“It’s okay,” Tuktirey quietly assured him. “Eywa will protect him.”
It was said with the certainty of a child who had never lost a sibling. Jake wasn’t insensitive enough to think his daughter had never lost anyone. No, he knew Tuk had lost people. There had been elders who she had trusted and seen as grandparents, animals she had bonded with and loved with her entire sweet little heart, and people like the boy Spikti who had died before he could complete his Iknimaya. His daughter had lost people she had cared about, but never a sibling. That loss was one both Jake and Neytiri knew intimately. And, fuck, was Jake afraid he had damned his children to knowing that loss as well.
Jake closed his eyes, pictured Spider’s happy grin, and nodded his head. “She will.”
In the end, when Jake saw Spider again, he could not embrace him in the way he had longed to for so many months. The boy, so young yet so responsible and mature in a way that made Jake choke up, helped drag Neteyam up and out of the ocean. Seafoam clung to his skin, the paint on his body was faded and his dreads were matted and—
Jake’s eyes passed over him. His hands clung onto his Neteyam, his boy, his son who had been so out of place, who bore such a heavy weight that Jake himself had pressed onto him, his boy who said the words he hadn’t been able to since they had left High Camp: I want to go home .
Back on Earth, the ocean had been a desolate thing. It was as polluted as the rest of the world was, not to mention hazardous from chemical dumps that tainted the water and destroyed the ecosystem. Wildlife was sparse. The last living whale—a Minke whale—had been beached when Jake was Spider’s age. It was a miserable looking thing, made even moreso when it exploded across the beach that was its final resting place. In all honesty, Jake had nearly forgotten that whole ordeal: the way the news showed it every half hour and Tommy’s loud rants on this and that and this world is ruined . It wasn’t until he had seen Ro’a, dead-eyed, that he had remembered it.
It had taken days for the wreckage of the battle to be cleaned; before the bodies of the dead could be laid to rest, the Metkayina had worked day and night to rid the water of the Sky People’s pollution.
Jake sat on the beach, the tide soft against his feet, as he stared out into the vastness of it. His Neteyam was at peace, he reminded himself. His son, his first baby, was with the Great Mother. There was no more pain, no more loss, only infinite warmth. Telling himself this didn’t take away the immense grief that pressed against his heart. Over all else, there was one thought that came back to him: Why hadn’t he hugged him more?
Movement caused his eye to twitch and, assuming it was Tuk, Jake glanced over his shoulder. Instead of his youngest daughter, it was Spider. The boy wore a pale green tewng, a gift from the kind-hearted daughter of the Olo’eyktan, and fresh blue stripes were painted along his body. Someone had taken the time to help untangle his matted dreads. His hair had been cut to his shoulders and was instead braided. There were beads and shells intwined into his braids. Spider’s eyes grew wide, but before he could open his mouth, Jake held out his hand, palm up, beckoning the boy to join him.
Spider’s steps were careful and measured.
Despite himself, Jake felt a smile tug at his lips. “Not used to the sand just yet, huh?”
The boy’s face twisted in distaste. “It’s coarse and gets everywhere .” Jake laughed lightly and Spider chuckled, glancing down at his bare feet before brushing away at the sand that clung to him. The soles of his feet were thick with callouses. Jake had been afraid of how the Metkayina would take to Spider, whose Sky Person features shadowed the fact that he was Omatikaya at heart, however it seemed he had little to worry about. Tsireya was vocally welcoming of Spider; it was a significant difference from the way the young girl would defer to her mother only weeks before. Experiencing such a traumatic death, Jake knew, could do that to a person.
“I’m sorry,” Spider rasped out, raw and rough, “I’m sorry I couldn’t do more, Jake.”
For a moment, Jake didn’t understand. The boy's words felt disconnected from the truth of the world. Since coming back to them, Spider had done so much. He had been part of the effort to clean the ocean. He had helped food preparers in the mornings and quickly learned how to make the Metkayina nets and other items that were needed in their time of crisis. Spider had done so much. There was no reason for the boy to apologize.
Then, as Jake looked over the boy, so young and small as he sat in the sand, his eyes shining and glancing out to the ocean beyond, Jake realized what Spider meant. Jake shook his head, his breath shallow in his chest as he placed his hand onto Spider’s shoulder. He had lost some weight when they had found each other again, thanks to the less nourishing food of the Sky People, but he had seemed to have gained it back now. When Jake had been able to see straight again, after it all, he had taken one look at the boy and given him as much food as he thought Spider could handle. “There is nothing for you to apologize for Spider. You hear me? Nothing.”
The boy gasped and shook his head. “But—”
“No.” Jake said firmly. He could feel, as though from a distance, as a cold tear trailed down his cheek. “You’re just a boy, Spider. It’s me who has to apologize.”
Spider’s face twisted in confusion, like look familiar as it would be on any other of Jake’s children. The first time Jake had seen that expression had been fifteen years ago, watching as the then-toddler had tried to make sense of the world around him. He thought of how Spider and Neteyam used to cling to each other, babbling in a mix of languages and discovering all of Ewya’eveng together. “Why would you have to apologize?”
Hearts are an easy thing to break. How many times had Jake experienced a pain so profound it broke him? Again and again it happened, a ribboning grief that he was never able to run from. Not even the most beautiful planet in all of space could take his grief away. Here, now, Jake found his already cracked heart form a new fissure as he took in Spider’s innocent expression. How badly had he failed Spider? How could the boy not see it?
“Spider,” Jake muttered carefully as he took the boy's hands into his own. They were so small, about the same size as Tuktirey's. “I’ve failed you.”
“No,” Spider said firmly as he shook his head, trying to speak over Jake as he repeated the word again. “You’ve never failed me. No.”
“I’ve failed you,” Jake said again, hoping to drown out Spider’s words. He needed for Spider to hear this, to understand. “I have, Spider, I have. Listen to me!” The boy hissed at him, but stopped speaking, his chest heaving as he glared up at Jake. There was a spark in him, something so strong it made Jake feel worse than ever. He should have protected Spider, been a better man, a better father. Because that has been what Jake had been hiding from for over a decade. Spider was his son. Not Quaritch’s or anyone from Hell’s Gate. His. But, he’d hidden from that truth when he should have embraced the boy. “You’re just a boy and I’m an adult. I’m someone who should have protected you against all odds, but I ran away. I hid. And I left you behind.”
It was a simple truth, yet Spider shook his head again.
“I didn’t want you to save me. It was my decision. I didn’t want—I didn’t want anyone to be hurt.” His words were broken, his cheeks glinting with tears. The mask on his face began to fog over. “Fuck.”
Despite himself, Jake chuckled. The kids loved swearing in English, something that Jake knew he shouldn’t allow or encourage, but did anyway. “Yeah, kid, but I still should have fought harder for you. Not just when they took you, but before that. I know—Look.” Jake slowly began to untie his songcord from his tewng, the beads clinking together in a soft chime as he did.
Along his songcord was a memory for his life, starting from the moment he lost his brother. It should be longer, but, really, nothing before Tommy’s death seemed to have mattered anymore. He pinched a dark blue bead between his fingers, inches away from the lock of Kiri’s hair, the small amount of blood inside shifting from side to side. “This is you, Spider.”
With careful, nearly reverent, fingers, Spider took the songcord into his palm. Another soft sob left his lips as he stared at it, the bead that had been twisted into his songcord, his life, for fourteen years. “I’ve—I’ve seen this my whole life,” he whispered absently as he traced a single finger over the bead. “I’m not—worthy of this.”
“Love, family, it isn’t about being worthy, Spider.” Jake replied firmly as he closed Spider’s hand over the songcord. “Besides, if anyone isn’t worthy of someone, it’s me. All your life I’ve left you behind. Don’t—I did, Spider. But, I’m done with that. I’m done denying who you are. You’re Omatikaya, a Na’vi, just like me. Better than me. It’s been my fear that’s held you back, but I’m done. I already lost one son, I couldn’t bear to lose another without saying this. I’m sorry, Spider. I’m sorry.”
The words lay bare in between them for a long moment. The soft waves and their quiet sniffles were the only noises to be heard. It was too much, so much, an entire world of emotions untouched for so long. Jake hoped it would be enough, that they could come forward from this. His chest hurt with the weight of all that had been said.
Then—
Spider’s words were a rasp as he spoke: “I pulled Quaritch out of the water.”
Processing the words Spider spoke was difficult. All Jake could hear was the ocean, the push and the pull, the quiet sounds of his Neteyam’s cries as the boy repeated I want to go home , the repeated tone of a voicemail message in his ear it’s your brother, jackass, give me a call . Jake pressed his hand to his chest, right above the place where his broken heart sat. He looked out at the sealine, watching the soft heads of ilu pop in and out as they played together.
“Tell me,” Jake muttered as he watched the creatures, thinking of footage of a dead whale carcass. “What happened. Tell me everything.”
The story was a simple one. Spider spoke in a quiet voice. When he cried, Jake reached out a hand to run it over his braided head. His touch seemed to bolster the boy to continue on. “I don’t know why I did it. I hate him. I hate him so much. I should have let him die.”
Jake smiled tightly and shook his head. The memory of something he long ago wished to bury hooked itself into his mouth, needed to be said. “When I was about a year older than you, my dad called me. He was crying, drunk out of his mind. I hated him. More than anyone or anything, I hated that bastard. He was the reason my mom was dead. The reason I was stuck with nowhere to go. I hated him, but I couldn’t leave him behind. So, he called me, crying, needing me, and I found him and took him home. Bathed him, held him while he threw up all over the goddamn place, hating him. He was so drunk, I thought he could just die. He could choke and die and I would be free. But I watched over him. Cleaned him. Kept him from hurting himself even further. I understand, Spider, hating your father, but feeling indebted to him.”
When he turned to look at the boy, he could see Spider’s surprise at his story. His eyes were shining, his fingers were still gripping Jake’s songcord. Speaking about his past was difficult. It was easier for Jake to leave everything behind him, but some things needed to be said. He wished he said more to Neteyam.
Jake gave Spider a smile. “Don’t worry, Spider. I told you. You’re just a boy. There’s nothing you need to apologize for.”
#neytiri & spider#tuktirey te suli neytiri'ite#neytiri sully#neytiri te tskaha mo'at'ite#neytiri avatar#jake x neytiri#jake sully#loak sully#spider socorro#miles spider socorro#lo’ak avatar#lo’ak te suli tsyeyk’itan#tuktirey sully#tuk tuk#tuk sully#tuktirey#kiri te suli kìreysì'ite#kiri sully#kiri avatar#avatar spider#spider te suli tsyeyk'itan#spider is adopted#Spider is the adoptive son of Neytiri#Spider is the adoptive son of Jake
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I just saw Avatar for the first time since it was in theaters 13 years ago. Some quick thoughts.
1) The CGI (mostly) still holds up. Aside from one sequence near the beginning, I don't think you can really tell this was made more than a decade ago. That's pretty damn impressive since CGI often ages poorly.
2) It's a better film that I gave it credit at the time though it's still quite flawed in some ways (more on that in a bit). But after a decade non stop of Marvel, DC, and Star Wars as the dominant box office brands it stands out a lot more and feels a lot more original.
3) It's hard not to perceive part of the backlash against the film among nerds (which I think the success of Way of Water has shown did not reach into the mainstream) comes from the fact that this film makes the Colonial Marines from Aliens the bad guys. Unequivocally. As someone who thought the Marines were never the most interesting part of Alien or its imitators that doesn't bother me as much.
4) I think another reason people (myself included) backlashed against the movie is that it is overwhelmingly, heart achingly sincere. There is not a sarcastic or self-mocking bone in Avatar's body. Everything it does is done with deliberate, open hearted purpose and frankly a lot of us nerds are uncomfortable with that! But again, after a decade of films aping the wink wink wisecracking of 2012's Avengers, one might argue Avatar's bleeding heart is actually a major plus in its favor.
5) That being said, it's not flawless and one bit of criticism from 2009 remains quite relevant: the film, while unequivocally anti-colonialist, is made with an entirely white lens. The Na'vi are the good guys, yes, but with the exception of Neytiri (and only barely to be honest), they're never the *heroes*. The greatest ass kicking moments, the greatest triumphs and heartbreaking moments belong not to them but to the humans like Jake, Grace, Norm, and Trudy. The Na'vi are sympathetic, but we don't see anything from their point of view: they're accessories to the human characters' emotional journey.
6) That being said, if this was the first movie you saw about colonialism I think you'd be hard pressed to come away from it thinking that was a *good* thing. Cameron is not the least bit subtle about painting Quaritch and RDA as the bad guys nor about drawing comparisons between them and not only historical colonizers but the modern U.S. military (see point 3).
7) One thing I appreciate a lot more now than I did in 2009 is the sheer volume and quality of worldbuilding. It's clear this was a passion project for Cameron and he put every bit of detail he could cram in. It's also a very notable early example of a conlang that isn't either Tolkien or Klingon.
8) Lastly, the movie struck me as faintly religious which is interesting. I don't believe Cameron belongs to any religion but it struck me that Eywa very much represents an idea he would like to believe is true, even if he doesn't actually believe in it.
Anyhow, I might do a more detailed analysis after I watch Way of Water, but for now I'll end by saying Avatar remains a complicated but very well made movie, with a good message muddled somewhat by an exoticizing lens.
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What do you think about Varang, the Ash Clans of Acatar 3? If you can, do you have any predictions on what you think Varang will be like, her relationship with Quaritch - we know for sure from spoilers that they will make some contact as well as if they will mirror a darker side to Jeytiri, and what the culture of the Ash Clans will be like - we just know they’re more hostile than the other clans
Can’t wait for the next chapter!
Hey this a great question and I wish I knew! In fact, my anticipation for the Quaritch dynamic with the Ash People is one of the biggest factors in me writing my story. What's funny is that I was not aware of like leaks and stuff for Avatar 3 or even Varang's name. I only knew based on what Jon Landau shared that there would be "Ash Na'vi," that their elemental symbolism was fire, and that they would represent a "darker" side to Na'vi.
With this information (and being catastrophically down bad for Quaritch lol 😅), in early January I started crafting my own version of the Ash People and created our beloved Zu as a "Varang" stand-in. So in a way my story IS an embellished version of what I think could possibly happen/is at least plausible at a broad theme level (particularly in the earlier chapters). Now for Avatar 3 whether or not the Ash People will have any positive rapport with the RDA is uncertain. However, I think it could be very possible given that it's near certain Quaritch will be working with them, but I imagine he'd keep his loyalty to the RDA for a good bit of time (at least two more movies worth--much longer than I depict in my story).
I also do think the Ash Na'vi in Avatar 3 will potentially exploit Pandora a bit more than what we've seen other Na'vi do. The reason for this is just based on who James Cameron depicts as villains in Avatar. He is very explicit that the bad guy thing in Avatar is exploitation and destruction of nature (and colonization). So I would expect the Ash Na'vi to keep with this theme. And such matches their associated symbolic element of fire-- which burns and was necessary to the industrial revolution. Probably not to an extreme extent, they are still Na'vi, but... it would make sense. This is why I depicted my Ash Na'vi as embracing of human technology and a little more environmentally destructive than other Na'vi. But we'll see!
I have no idea what Quaritch and Varang's dynamic/relationship will be like to be honest, and I think many people (myself included) are making a lot of assumptions that may or may not hold true in the end. But it's just fun speculation! The Quaritch fan in me ships them *very* hard haha as, yes, kind of like this anti-Jeytiri. Na'vi but dark compared to what we have seen. There is an interview Stephen Lang saying:
"Hope doesn't exist without despair. Eden doesn't exist without the serpent. Quaritch is a necessity, he becomes part of the fabric of Pandora, even if it's to test it."
So that vibes with the idea that he's this dark antithesis. In particular, Jake's anti as it seems Cameron has presented him in Way of Water with his uncanny parallels. Regarding a relationship with an "anti-Neytiri" which may be what Varang is, there are set and cast photos of Stephen Lang and Varang's Actress Oona Chaplin looking close and friendly, but eh that could mean SO many things!
Beyond my just liking Quaritch, I personally think it would be super cool and make sense to the story-- I'd love to see Varang help Quaritch come to embrace being a Na'vi and Pandora, but in a dark way, the way Neytiri did for Jake. Because then you also have the unique influence of Spider who will clearly be some helping hand for multiple characters in the films (Socorro means "help" or "aid). Of course, some people don't want this and think it'd be a cheap knock-off of Jake and Neytiri and could make things too messy for Quaritch's as a character given that Spider is already his primary relationship, and I can fully respect that! But James Cameron cooks.
Naturally, I'm just along for James Cameron's Avatar ride. Whatever direction he takes Quaritch (If Quaritch doesn't get a hot bad bitch Ash Na'vi girl in the end or just flat out dies, I still have my story lmao)
I was kind of bummed about the leaks at first because it felt like they took the wind out of my story's sails where it was existing in, at that point, an uncertain Avatar future. Some of the Avatar 3 script leaks even had dialogue that was freakishly close to some I'd written. But ultimately, this kind of worked out so that my stories would just be a reasonable alt-universe from the get-go. Though, I wouldn't be at all surprised if my story has genuine similarities with how some things go down since I think Avatar 2 has done a good job of broadcasting some overt aspects of Avatar 3 (in a good way!) and I worked hard to be keen on them. Many writers have! Anyway, this last paragraph is a tangent.
Sorry for the long answer! Next chapter of Happiness is Simple is up by the way! 💙
#avatar fanfiction#quaritch fanfic#miles quaritch#avatar james cameron#avatar quaritch#colonel miles quaritch#avatar the way of water#avatar 3#avatar oc#varang#ash na'vi#ash na'vi oc#quaritch x oc#recom quaritch#atwow#jeytiri#spider socorro#avatar spider
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Maybe what if Spider had cystic fibrosis instead of asthma? Would that change anything at all? Maybe Quaritch would have decided to make direct contact sooner?
I really like this idea. I haven't really used it or explored it yet, but it's been in my mind for a while. Spider in canon is severely handicapped compared to the Na'vi characters when it comes to breathing. As someone who has asthma in real life, I think it's a pretty decent stand in for representing this, however most asthmatics are not at the same level of threat/danger as canon!Spider is if/when his mask becomes damaged/dislodged. Cystic fibrosis seems like a still elevated disability that perhaps mirrors Spider's struggle a little more that asthma?
This is not a comparison of which-disease-is-worse or anything like that! Asthma can be life threatening, life limiting and debilitating, as can CF. Ultimately, I'd love to explore an au where Spider has the disease. I'd need to do a whole more research first though! In The Cat's in the Cradle, a few things would probably change.
Quaritch would attempt to get to Spider sooner.
He'd pay for all of Spider's treatment from prison, and would have a say in where and who treats him. (The authorities allow his voice to be heard for this because Spider is so sick).
When Quaritch gets out of jail, he'd probably try and snatch Spider so he could take him somewhere there's a better hospital
He'd be even more determined to get Spider only this time he'd be obsessed with finding him the best medical team, even if that meant moving to Canada or something.
So yeah, maybe Spider is walking home from school one day and the next he's waking up in Vancouver being taken to a facility by Quaritch.
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PARKER SELFRIDGE | HEADCANONS
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• Uses others to make himself look more intimidating than he actually is - because of his smaller frame. Pretty much always surrounded by SecOps soldiers to have a sense of control. His very intense and passive-aggressive attitude definitely makes up for his physique.
• Hates seeing blood. Very prone to feeling dizzy at the sight of anything graphic.
• Very cleanly and probably obsessed with disinfectants to some extent. Doesn’t really like meddling with the marines or the jungle because both are absolutely NOT clean in his opinion.
• Almost always cold. Very cold hands.
• Can’t sit still, his brain is always active and he needs to move or keep himself busy in order to stay calm.
• Actually misses life on Earth to an extent - perhaps the golf courses / tournaments in particular - and the thought of being on a foreign planet intimidates him because he feels like he is on his own, and vulnerable at that. His deep emotional connection to the life he knew on earth is represented by the many trophies and trinkets displayed in his office at hell’s gate.
• Won’t easily admit his insecurities and weaknesses towards others because he feels like he has to keep up the image of being a respectable authority figure, which is hard enough given how different he is from all the SecOps soldiers surrounding him.
• Will talk for hours about corporate topics such as money and statistics and interrupt you constantly. Very engaged and emotionally charged when it comes to important conversations. However he is not really used to talking about topics that do not involve work and direct confrontations about more private topics might startle him a bit.
• Hates being touched whenever tense/stressed. Physical actions without permission leads to sensory overloads for him in most cases.
• Incredibly scared of death/dying, and being on a hostile planet doesn’t help lessen said fears.
• Mostly eats his meals on his own because the sheer idea of sharing canteens with both soldiers as well as scientists who all talk over each other is a nightmare for him.
• Very passionate cook, incredibly interested in good cuisine.
• Likes when others bring up his career journey and corporate status. It boosts his ego a lot and he enjoys bringing up his hierarchical position a lot in conversations in a desperate attempt to maintain respect and dominance.
• Deep down he may experience remorse for the actions he decided to support thanks to the pressure Quaritch applied on him before the battle of home-tree but he’ll probably never take the opportunity to express that remorse openly. He will most likely always put the RDA’s interests over his internal conflicts because he feels like he has more control over the administration than over his own mind.
• Quaritch knows exactly what makes him tick - and he uses that knowledge to manipulate a conflicted and stressed out Parker into making the “right decisions”.
• Very known and popular in his work environment but rather lonely and reserved when it comes to his private life. Doesn’t have many real friends. He has a heavily corporate mindset, which he applies to any situation or conversation, which makes him a very difficult personality to remain patient with.
• Easily becomes very teary-eyed and startled whenever he is put into a situation that makes him feel vulnerable, which is a big contrast to his otherwise direct and aggressive nature. This applies to both positive and negative emotions.
#Parker Selfridge#all of these GIFs are taken from deleted scenes that further explored the complexity of his character#so sad they took them all out because they make Parker so much more intriguing and layered#niku30#avatar james cameron#Avatar 2009#giovanni ribisi#RDA#avatar rda#character headcanons#head canon#Parker Selfridge HeadCanon#HCs#avatar the way of water
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Just finished seeing avatar way of water and I both enjoy it but also have some gripes. For context I grew up OBSESSED with the first avatar Movie to a intense amount. This has been my most hyped movie growing up. The visuals are amazing, I was enamored the whole time you would forget it’s CGI. Even better I saw it in 3D and 4D which made it even more immersive. I really enjoyed it even though there was some clear sequel bait in it but whatever. But overall the experience was great and I enjoyed the movie. However there was some parts that really made no sense to me that I can’t shake spoilers below
I
hate how like Jake made his family move from their home?!? Like that’s neytiri whole culture and life. It’s clearly an important part to her and her family but they run away to the metkayina clan. Totally different way of life. Let’s be honest the metkayina clan is supposed to represent Polynesian culture just like how the first movie is Native American culture. like I’m Alaskan native, it’s like I packed up and left behind my family and culture to go live in Hawaii and decided yup I’m Hawaiian now like what?!?! It was also very jarring how quickly they settled in to the clan??? It felt a bit rushed to me. Also the metkayina people are literally built for the water unlike the Omaticaya (Jakes family) and they just magically blend in? it took like one montage for the kids to fit in. It felt so weird to me. How at the end how they say they are sea people now? Why did they bury Neteyam in the ocean? His last words were “I want to go home” he should have a proper burial back with the omaticaya clan. Honestly it just felt like James Cameron really wanted the rest of the series set in the ocean since he’s a huge ocean freak and needed a reason to keep it in that setting.
Also fuck spider he was annoying as shit I can’t believe he saved quaritch that dumb idiot. He saw him ruined so many villages of the Navi, fucking kidnapped and assaulted his friends and more yet still saved him which clearly means quaritch is coming back in a future movie to my dismay. Spider just is a weird inclusion I didn’t like him they didn’t develop him at all and was just there to be there when they needed a way to save the main cast.
#avatar#avatar way of water#avatar 2#avatar spoilers#avatar way of water spoilers#spoilers#I had to get that out of my system lol#bruh does anymore now how to add read more on mobile?#it’s not working for me
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i never said he killed them but it is completely capable and he WAS going to. let’s not forget who quaritch is and what he represents. burning villages and killing an innocent ilu (which quaritch ORDERED lyle to do) was still wrong. spider KNOWS the type of person he is. and again, just because someone treated you right doesn’t mean they are worth saving when they are a danger to everyone else and you’ve seen that first hand. being his father didn’t change anything. quaritch showed no change in his agenda or and proved that once again when he threatened the sullys.
and the navi and neytiri not liking humans and understandable, including spider even though he didn’t do anything. they don’t trust humans and spider is no exception. mistreating or blaming him for what the humans did is completely wrong tho. and what else was neytiri supposed to do in that situation? quaritch had complete control over that situation and literally had kiri’s life in his hands. spider has been through a lot and didn’t deserve any of it, but that doesn’t mean he should be absolved of any hate when he made a very bad and thoughtless decision. you can understand his character and still dislike him.
i think you’re forgetting that Spider is a 16 year old orphaned kid🤷🏻♀️ and completely disregarding my point when i’m saying he’s had experiences with his real father and saw him in a different light than what he was told in story’s. obviously he knows he’s a bad guy, everyone does, but as a child who’s never met his real parents he may just be desperate to see the good and to bond with someone who can show him an ounce of affection.
If spider wanted to leave quaritch there he could, in the movie he was going to, but saw he was alive. Even if he is a bad guy he’s Spiders father, it would be horrible to just leave him there to die when he was obviously still alive, can you imagine just leaving your parent there to suffocate? that’s cruel. And anyway, everyone’s different, some would save Quaritch some wouldn’t in the situation.
“he WAS going to” key word is was. he never did in the end because he was influenced by Soider, he could have easily disregarded the boy and shot them all down anyways, but he didn’t.
Neytiri is a smart warrior, the ship is large and sinking, there are so many other angles that she could have killed quaritch with any of the hundreds of weapons laying around and took him by surprise. It was by chance and choice she came upon Spider, the fact that she was going to kill him was wrong too, he’s a child. I understand her pain, she lost her son, but it’s unfair to kill another innocent kid. And if she did kill Spider Quaritch would have done the same to Kiri easily.
I made it clear people can hate him, and i said i did too at first. But you need to see his point of view on things, this hate that spiders getting is all stemming for what? no reason? loads of people hate the kid just because they want to, not because there’s a solid reason for it. “but he saved Quaritch” is that the ONLY argument people can come up with? i want to see everyone else’s reasons for hating him, anything other than the fact that Spider saved his dad.
#spider haters man#this person is up my ass#avatar the way of water#atwow#spider socorro#miles quaritch#neytiri#kiri
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Everybody saying that one in the back of that concept art is Quaritch. Yes, Quaritch, the Main Overarching Antagonist, sequestered to a blurry, blacked out figure in the back of the shot which is lined with tens of Other similar silhouettes on ikran with guns -- while Lyle gets to flail his rocket launcher, clear as a cloudly day with his bald ass head, under the right-hand side wing of Varang's glorious space dragon.
(Quaritch is going to start getting shifty bc Spider influences + will be tempted to compromise or perhaps even defect [out of love for his son, not necessarily the planet or Na'vi], but Lyle is the DIE-hard colonial loyalist exemplified by what his tattoos represent & his history in the drafts of these films as an example of who Jake might have turned into if he hadn't switched sides. Varang is using them to gain access to the RDA's tools and weapons, so if Quaritch backs out at some point, and the only other Recom left to connect her clan and the humans is Lyle...... 😳)
#avatar 3#horse.txt#me when im connecting dots#that further my own fanficular narrative#i just want Q and Lyle to have a falling out okay
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Avatar: The Way of Water Review
This is my opinionated movie review of Avatar 2 and will contain many spoilers… So, here’s what I got.
For starters, I have been a hardcore Avatar fan from the beginning. The first movie came out when I was in 5th grade! I am now 24 years old and have literally been waiting for this movie for 13 years! And just like the first one, I give this movie a full 5 star rating.
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
I absolutely loved this movie and felt that this one was way better than the first one. The acting was great, the story was great, and as always the world of Pandora was breathtaking. However, with this being said, there were a few things about the movie that frustrated me and left me over all confused. So here some things that I loved and hated about the movie.
Spider/Miles Quaritch - HATED
For me, Spider wasn’t a terrible character. He had the potential to be an amazing character but I almost felt like the writers just didn’t really know what to do with him. In a lot of ways you can’t help but feel bad for him because really doesn’t have anyone and feels connected to the Sullys and is very close to Jake and especially Kiri. He seems to be very kind and understanding and only wishes to be apart of a family but part of me also kinda wished he wasn’t a character. Spider is a little too much for my taste and has too much of a Tarzan vibe. I was rooting for him at first, that is, till he started to “bond” with his father and the other soldiers. Then, when it came to the scene where Spider saves his father from drowning my husband and I just looked at each other and agreed we were done with him. Overall I personally wish they had killed Spider off instead of Neteyam but I guess he’s here for a reason or at least I hope he is.
Kiri - LOVED
There’s so much to be said about Kiri. She is kindhearted, loving, beautiful, strong, and is most definitely my favorite character. Not only do I relate to her on a spiritual level for being strange and different than most Na’vi but I also love what she represents. A lot of reviewers have been referring to Kiri as a “Jesus-like” character which isn’t entirely wrong. While everyone else is confused on who Kiri’s father is and how her mother Grace even got pregnant, I think it’s pretty obvious where Kiri came from- Aywa. Kiri is not only Grace’s daughter she is also the embodiment of Aywa herself just in Na’vi form. I find this to be very beautiful and can’t wait to see what James Cameron has in store for her.
Omatikaya/Metkayina Clan - LOVED
One of my husband’s favorite things about the movie was the beautiful representation of Pacific Islanders. My husband is half Comanche and has always loved the idea of all the different Native cultures put together in the Na’vi tribes and we were both fascinated with how they represented the Islanders. I’m very curious to see what the other clans of Pandora are like and what cultures they will represent.
Neteyam’s Death - HATED
All I have to say is this… Neteyam was a precious boy who deserved better and was taken far too soon and far too easily. His death was a travesty that brought out a barbaric side of Neytiri and I would have done the same.
The Tulkun - LOVED
Despite it being hard to watch at times, I absolutely loved the Tulkun. They were such beautiful and majestic creatures and I hate the way they were so brutally hunted in the movie but at the same time I loved that James Cameron shed a light on the exploitation and near extinction of animals. I’m a huge animal lover and animal right activist and some scenes with the Tulkun were very hard to watch. It’s nothing new to see James Cameron drawing attention to protecting the earth and preserving wildlife but he always seems to do it in a way that really breaks your heart as makes you think about things. This is an important part of Avatar that I hope he continues in the future.
If I had to sum this movie up in one word it would be
Spectacular
So if you haven’t seen it yet, I highly suggest you go see it for yourself. Yes, it’s a three hour movie but if your a true Avatar fan you won’t be disappointed. Also, keep in mind that there are always going to be critics who say the movie is “racist” and should be “boycott” but just ignore all that shit. Avatar was never about “who plays who” or any specific culture, it has always been about how we as humans need to start treating each other as brothers and sisters and start taking care of our planet. James Cameron just wanted to show us this in a really epic way and I think he’s achieved that goal.
#avatar#the way of water#neytiri#jake sully#avatar 2#sully family#tuktirey#neteyam#avatar loak#avatar kiri#Aywa#metkayina#tulkun#omatikaya#avatar the way of water#movie review
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Hey, so I saw your post about some fics demonizing Neytiri. That has actually been one of my major fears as a fic writer, attempting to balance Neytiri's extremely valid trauma and the POV I'm writing from (that is typically flawed in some way). I was wondering, since you seem very well-versed on the topic, what do you define as "demonizing" for Neytiri? Is it ok to write from a perspective where a character doesn't really like or trust her, as long as the trauma is noted? Do you have any resources so I can educate myself to properly write this kind of character?
I really want to make sure I'm doing right by Neytiri and improve as a fic writer overall, so any advice you could offer would be very much appreciated!
Whoa, what a complicated and nuanced question. A great one! And I'm super flattered you came to me! Just one I'm going to try to answer to the best of my ability. I'm assuming you're referring to Norm's pov in your fic?
First of all, I do not want to at all proclaim to be an expert on generational trauma; I am not a person of color, and I have been lucky enough to have a very normal and healthy family. I just had a best friend growing up in an abusive household and took steps to educate myself best I could to understand the situation, which I believe anyone would do. So I'm just gonna try to word vomit out my thoughts for you, please ask questions or challenge any of what I say if any of you see anything you think is incorrect. Buckle in, this will be long.
What do you define as "demonizing" for Neytiri?
Demonizing means portraying someone as wicked or threatening, as evil or worthy of contempt and blame.
For me, demonizing for Neytiri is the trend I've seen lately of portraying her as this unyielding, animalistic type character who's hatred of humans, Spider specifically, goes so far that she gets physically violent with Spider and eventually ends up tearing apart her family. In these fics, Jake is always a sad sack loser bystander, loving his wife too much to step in but of course shamefully knowing how wrong what she's doing is. Infantilizing poor white savior Jake Sully, being brow beaten by his mean indigenous wife into neglecting a child is a weirdly strong take in this fandom. Often Mo'at is a wise elder chiding Neytiri for being unable to get over her prejudice. Mo'at and Jake understand Neytiri as much as anyone would, they wouldn't shame her. To me, it's an extremely reductive and frankly borderline racist characterization. When paired with a sympathetic view of Quaritch, it is at best irresponsible and at worst knowingly dangerous.
Neytiri is representative of an indigenous woman. I feel like I don't have to explain why making her violent, volatile, and completely unreasonable is a little bit of a harmful caricature. In these fics, for me, Neytiri ceases to be a person. She looses autonomy to sort of represent this monolith of hatred and prejudice that has hurt our little baby boy Spider. It's crazy to me that people can't apply the exact same empathy they have towards Spider (saving Quaritch) to Neytiri (not being able to trust Spider). They are the most foil of foil characters. Their storylines are extremely similar, if I'm being honest. Essentially, ignoring the fact that Neytiri is a member of a minority community being actively genocided by Spider's people is intentionally reductive. If you can empathize with Spider, and ESPECIALLY if you find Quaritch sympathetic, finding Neytiri's actions unforgivable is racism, plain and simple.
Also, side note, the lengths people go to where Neytiri just literally will not budge under any circumstances at all is INSANE.
(I read a fic the other day where she gave Spider to child protective services behind everyone's back. That's LUNACY. She only came around after she almost lost Tuk when Tuk was suddenly born prematurely and Mo'at came in and was like "Eywa made it so you can never have kids again because of what you did, have you learned your lesson yet?" Like?? I do not understand the HATRED some of ya'll have for her, the suffering you all think she deserves. She's having an EXTREMELY NORMAL trauma reaction to surviving GENOCIDE? Examine yourselves greatly).
But where I was going was Neytiri is the same character who pushed her parents to let them go to human school, fell in love with human Jake, defended him and trusted him despite her family, mated with him and lost her religious position because of it, and then had a bunch of part human kids with him, and adopted a fully freak of nature kid born of a human she loved and respected. She has human friends, she wears and uses human tech, and she forgave Jake after he had betrayed them. Basically what I'm saying is Neytiri, despite her continuous trauma, is the most open and curious and non traditional Na'vi of all time. Girl is READY to meet new people and learn new shit, and to be open to everyone. Sometimes I think about a no trauma Neytiri and I get emotional. I think it's crazy to say she would never budge on Spider, if it wasn't for his dad I'm pretty sure she would've softened lonnnnng ago, if not having liked him from the get go.
Um, that got way too long I have too many thoughts. Second half of your question.
Is it ok to write from a perspective where a character doesn't really like or trust her, as long as the trauma is noted?
This is a tricky question, because technically there is nothing you can't do as a writer. Of course, it also means there is nothing anyone can't criticize you for writing. Like, Colleen Hoover can say she's writing realistic depictions of domestic abuse until the cows come home, I'm still going to say she's romanticizing and normalizing it in a super callous way. Neither of us can stop the other. So yeah, of course you're okay to write from the perspective of a character that doesn't like Neytiri. I just think the point will be what your prerogative is. One of my MFA professors says it in a way I like and I'm sure I've referenced before, if you aren't trying to make a point about something that might have to have a trigger warning then don't include it. I always say I would take it a step further; if your point is to defend that thing, don't do it. So for me, my big points would be try not to project my own feelings onto the character either way; if the character is wrong about something and the narrative intends to show that they will either learn, or we the reader will grow past them. But to be sure what you feel the takeway of the piece is is what you wanted it to be, I guess.
Do you have any resources so I can educate myself to properly write this kind of character?
Well, I have a few on white writers writing BIPOC characters and the ethics of that if you're interested in that. But I don't have any on specifically writing generational trauma. I guess I'd say reading and absorbing are my biggest tools; so reading books/watching movies or TV that use the speculative to translate generational trauma, and learning about and taking in the real life examples the character is based on. Read up on some genocides, and indigenous people today and how their lives are still affected. Even just watch the news; we're witnessing a very public genocide being pushed right to our attention right now. And of course, that is not the only genocide happening rn, it's just the only one we're talking about, so there's plenty of real world case studies unfortunately right in front of us.
#this got way way too long#it's almost midnight and i still have work tomorrow#i was goING to answer a few asks during amazing race tonight and instead#just this#lol#my bad#hope this helps! feel free to ask or dm with any questions or grievances haha#keep in mind i am not an expert!#i am just someone who likes knowing things and is really annoying about consuming ethically#anyways spider fandom i need u to lay off my girl#fandom criticism of bipoc characters is somehow always a little rooted in racism#but that's because we've all got internalized racism my friends and we cannot escape it without daily intentional thought and conversation#neytiri sully#miles spider socorro#spider socorro#spider sully#jake sully#jeytiri#mo'at#miles quaritch#tuktirey sully#norm spellman#avatar#avatar the way of water#james cameron avatar#melissa og#melissa on avatar (cameron)#melissa is an english major
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What I thought while watching Avatar: The Way of Water … does that make Quaritch King Neptune or Mr. Beeston? I also forgot both Jakes can’t walk.
[Image Description: two hands clasped together, one represents Emily Windsnap, the other represents Avatar. In both stories, a man named jake marries a woman outside his species and has children with her, which makes his own species hate him and hunt him down. End description.]
#avatar: the way of water#avatar the way of water#avatar#james cameron#avatar 2009#avatar 2#the way of water#coincidence#funny#similar#emily windsnap#jake windsnap#jake sully#coincidence i think not#neytiri#mary windsnap#mary penelope windsnap#quaritch#miles quaritch#middle grade fiction#middle grade series#middle grade books
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I know people say the humans of the RDA seem too cartoonishly evil (Quaritch's "shoot that animal over there" line gives this some merit, for example 💀), but if you know like 4 things the American government and CIA has done and kept secret from the public (then fully admitted to later), and how ruthless and exploitive capitalist oligarchs can be against the environment and people, the RDA's evils arent really that far off from reality.
Billionaires and corperations hoard wealth from the masses and are proven to exploit class power dynamics to create monopolies, exploit the poor, kill and suppress worker resistance, and fund massive psy-ops in support of their companies. Capitalism and neo-liberalism erode the morals of those who hoard and perpetually seek out capital because it takes a lack of morality to protect the needs of capital, which is why a dollar is worth more than clean water, air, and even human beings.
Companies fund hits on activists and use police power to violently suppress protests and protect assets to increase profits. CEOs of massive companies and their shareholders openly admit to knowing the environmental destruction of things like plastic and oil, yet open, saturate, and dominate markets to churn out products made from such things (including combustion engine cars and everything plastic) and expand slavery dependent business models to cut costs on production and maximize profits. Monolpolies shape whole economies and structure them to perpetuate production of destuctive, non-renewable products globally.
These neoliberal and capitalist operations of the real world are represented by the RDA's monopoly on unobitanium, a resource Earth relies upon entirely for energy because of market monopolies against alternatives. Its also shown by Earth itself becoming uninhabitable and polluted by consumerism, war, and resource disallocation, and the RDA's exploitaton of benevolent sciences, like xenoanthropology and xenobiology, to open markets for lucrative resources and help preserve the human resources against the Na'vi in diplomatic relations (Grace Augustines school, RDA biologists and lìnguists, etc). Cameron included The Cove inspired scenes of whale hunting and black market trade in AWOW as a specific example of the venture capitalist cruelty and morbidity of whaling, dolphin hunting, and other ocean industries known to cause ecological decay and destruction, which went along his theme of climate change and protecting the oceans.
As for governments, I saw one comment in the Avatar Discord asking how masses of people can be mislead about the violence and failures of such a massively expensive, resource expending project like Pandoran colonization since the visual dictionary revealed that the RDA has been endorsed/funded by several national governments, and all I could think was the blood soaked foerign policy of the U$ federal government and its CIA adjacent NGOs for the past 100 years in the global south, and the CIA's/FBI's ubiquitous and violently successful counter-revolutionary campaigns, psy-ops, and class war operations on domestic soil (like COINTELPRO, "war on drugs", & white supremacist, anti-communist propaganda).
I think its a shame Cameron's "humans vs Na'vi" oversimplified writing overshadows the very accurate portrayal of how reprehensible and morally depraved capitalists/neoliberal governments, companies, and militaries are. Its understandable that a human audience would sympathize with human colonizers trying to seek out ways to keep human life on Earth on life support. And its also understandable for humans to put their species first, since I dont think its necessarily anthropocentric to do so. But Cameron is very explicit in the films about who and what is the enemy and I dont think he means to portray non-humans as "good" and humans as "bad" and indefinitely corrupted.
Although his knowledge and commentary on colonialism, capitalism and imperialosm are very rudimentary (what can you really expect from a rich old white amerikan man lmao), Avatar opens up important conversations about such themes and challenges the audience to ultimately source the root problems on exploitive and destructive systems and ideologies, while supporting actions that would hold those who perpetuate such systems accountabile for their roles in violence and greed. The story isnt about misanthropy but about human accountability, alternatives, and rehabilitation.
Avatar isnt the only story or franchise to expose and criticize the ideologies that led the humans to unsustainable economies, mass destruction, and suppression of alternatives on Earth, and intergalactic search to keep the broken same system going. There are fare earlier and better fictional and non-fictional works exploring these pressing issues told by colonized and Indigenous people that Avatar fans should definitely seek out. Avatar is a palatable yet accessible fictional introduction on conversations many are in the dark about concerning the evils of capitalism, imperialism, and colonialism and the "cartoonishly evil" agents that perpetuate and protect it irl.
#oel.mine#avatar 2#avatar film#avatar way of water#james cameron avatar#avatar the way of water#avatar 2009#RDA#avatar spoilers#avatar 2 spoilers#awow spoilers
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