#what are peoples reactions when minkowski and eiffel talk about their experiences

[nobodysdaydreams]

HILBERT PICKED ONE HECK OF A TIME TO DROP HIS TRAGIC BACKSTORY (or my reaction to Episodes 25-26 of Wolf359).

First off I would like to welcome any newcomers to my reactions, courtesy of my poll about Blessie's name, as well as my post about my unhinged yet, apparently shockingly plausible theory that Blessie was created with DNA from Reneé Minkowski.

You can click the links to view the posts, but in the meantime, I'm gonna get right to the reaction, because I've been studying all day, and want to reward myself with a little treat. Sorry for ranting so much about Blessie, but I find the character extremely compelling. I hope Blessie makes it to the end. He deserves it. If not, you best believe I’ll be writing some crack fic.

Tagging the mutuals who got me invested in this, and if you want to be tagged or untagged from these posts, lmk, or you can follow my blog or simply follow the tag "#bods wolf359 reactions". Anyone who has followed me for a while knows my updates are inconsistent, so I apologize in advance for that and for any spelling/grammar mistakes in my posts. Especially in this one because it is late, and I am tired.

@sophieswundergarten @oflightningandstars @acollectionofcuriousreblogs @herawell

Episode 25: Lame-O Superhero Origin Story

Oh right they are going to Hilbert for help. Bad idea. BAD IDEA.

Hilbert don't try to play therapist. You are NOT in the same boat. You treated him like a science experiment.

Also. This is the same voice actor talking to himself. Pretty incredible. Pure talent. Honestly.

And yeah Hilbert, don't shame him for working with Hera and Minkowski. It's called friendship, something YOU wouldn't understand.

"Ever met anyone who could get things done on their own" "only Lovelace"

...so NOT Cutter then? Hm. I wonder what Hilbert and others have helped Cutter with along the way then. And I wonder what it is about Isabel Lovelace that makes Hilbert so terrified.

Besides, you know, the huge bomb.

Lovelace. Lovelace. You need to be reasonable.

Yeah. HILBERT DOESN'T FEEL GUILT. It's creepy. "Latent, it can be controlled. I've made vast improvements since last round off full scale trials"

...

...

...

Hilbert.

Hilbert.

What happened the last round of trials?

"Command classified you as expendable and gave you exposure samples before I even knew your name"

Oh my gosh I hate Cutter and command so much. And Doug is NOT expendable. Would else is gonna make jokes to lighten the mood?

"They gave orders to terminate your life at Christmas"

^That line is so messed up. Especially since it's also his birthday! I love how hard they rub in how evil command is, like, this could not have waited 24 hours for their evil plans, they couldn't even have that decency, oh no, it had to be on Doug and Jesus's birthday when Minkowski had made them a nice dinner. There was no other way to do this.

They are the worst. They're the worst.

"I did not ask for this hand Eiffel, but I will play it through to the end. For your sake as much as mine."

Hilbert...what hand are you playing? Why do you want to "radically improve human life". And what does radically improve human life mean for you? Does he have a family member that's like...dying of cancer or severely disabled and he's doing this for them or something, because while that's very sad, it does not excuse murder.

"How did they go?" "Slowly..." Oh...huh. Hilbert kinda liked them, but killed them anyway. Why? Hilbert dude, what is your game here?

"What did all that niceness accomplish? You have chance to make a contribution to humanity?"

Hilbert. Two problems with your logic.

So far your contribution has been mostly murder of humanity, so unless that viruses ends up saving millions, you're not really proving your point. Your point only works if there is payoff, and right now, I am really not seeing it, you are MILES aways from Earth and all the people you plan to hypothetically save or sorry "improve" (geez the tmbs comparisons with that one)

Do you HONESTLY believe CUTTER, Mr. "I'll throw you off this building Rachel" is gonna use it for good? Really? You think you get out of this alive? You think you get what you want? You think anything good comes out of this? You're a fool.

EXACTLY! CALL HIM OUT DOUG.

"We can do better"

THERE IS NO WE HERE HILBERT YOU DON'T HAVE A VIRUS IN YOUR BLOODSTREAM. AT LEAST NOT THAT I KNOW OF.

Right! No consent! That's why it's wrong!

Hilbert: "I'm asking you now. At least believe that all I want is positive results".

...are they trying to make Hilbert sympathetic? Because he's still very misguided, and it's gonna take a lot.

Lovelace, Minkowski, you need to work together. There is a middle ground here. One that won't get everyone killed.

"Decima is my life's work but I don't like it." THEN WHY ARE YOU DOING IT.

HILBERT... sister? Why does she need antiradiation meds?

"Ah! Look Monitor! This conversation not productive!"

Hilbert. THIS IS THE ONLY DECENT THING YOU HAVE EVER SAID. But also me when I'm trying to avoid a conversation.

Olga. Nice name.

Aw she had cats.

Oh. He lost his other siblings to radiation poison. He doesn't even remember them.

...

Not that I feel bad for him. He's still an idiot.

When he was four? That's sad.

Huh. Looks like they both have families they'd rather forget. What happened to yours Doug?

Good question. What is his real name. Dmitri what now?

Yeah I wouldn't trust him either. But yeah, he does at least feel like a real person now. Yeah, maybe Doug will "come around". But you know what Hilbert? Maybe you will too. We'll see.

Oh we're getting Lovelace's backstory too I love this!

"Imagine losing him slowly, so he knows there's no hope. Do it four times."

Oh my. Yeah. That would break you.

And yeah: Minkowski DOES care about Lovelace. But we're forgetting the plant monster. Blessie matters too.

Oops. They fixed the ship. Well at least Lovelace trust them now.

More aggressively? What...no, please you guys have trust now, we do not need to pull out the knock out gas! This is a fragile situation. YOU ARE NOT THE ENEMY COMMAND IS. CUTTER IS.

Oh no. NO. NO NO NO NO NO.

DOUG!

HILBERT. I DO NOT FEEL BAD AT ALL. I DON'T CARE WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR SISTER. YOU ARE MURDERING A MAN. YOU MURDERED SO MANY MEN. I HOPE IT WAS WORTH IT TO YOU HILBERT. I HOPE IT WAS WORTH IT.

...but something tells me it wasn't.

Episode 26: Do No Harm

Oh and this episode title. "Do no harm" yeah, they BETTER do no harm. Eiffel can't die now! It's the middle of season two! Not even a season finale! We never got to find out his big secret about his family.

Hilbert you have explaining to do. Lovelace has to recognize the symptoms. Okay it sounds like she's being helpful. This is good. Crisis brings people together.

They better save Eiffel.

Anti-viral agent? Yeah it better work. And Hilbert she does make a point. How can they trust you?

Lovelace please calm down. I know you lost people but EIFFEL IS DYING. Hera please watch her so she doesn't do anything rash.

Oh gosh these gasping sounds... good voice acting but geez...

Ah. So his immune system is reacting to something else, which consequently also leads to it attacking the virus? Then what is this "something else"?

Hera called him her best friend 🥺

Yeah Hera. Call her out...but also, that was a bit harsh. She lost everyone, and she just wants to help you too.

I also love that Hera is willing to acknowledge that Lovelace's plan leaves her behind, but is okay with it, because it will save Doug and Minkowski.

"No one should have to live through that" Hera knows because that's her life. "And you shouldn't do the same to anyone else" GOOD POINT HERA.

"Fear is the only language you listen to you" "you need a better dictionary" oh boy.

I guess they're not getting along anytime soon.

LUNG COLLAPSED?

That's very serious. Hilbert. This is your ONE shot at MAYBE getting any semblance of...well maybe not redemption arc but something.

Oh boy. What do you have to say Hera.

Yikes. Well Hilbert, now you have motivation. I hope you're thinking long and hard about this Hilbert.

INTERNAL BLEEDING?

GIVE HIM YOUR OWN BLOOD THEN.

Oh great they don't have the right blood.

...Lovelace? Please. LOVELACE.

WHAT IS HER BLOOD TYPE?

I don't even know my blood type I should look that up.

...unusual radiological signals from the star? What does that mean?

Hera. Lovelace. Please get along.

"Don't you dare say I don't care about you. I don't say it because I can't" Oh my goodness.

Oh dear someone hug her good lord. And you CAN be there for them. Right now. BY GIVING BLOOD RIGHT NOW.

"The dumbest person I've met, admittedly it's a small sample size" 😂

"Four other people on this station" WHAT ABOUT BLESSIE!

...does...does Blessie have the blood for the job?

YES LOVELACE HAS THE BLOOD FOR IT!

Doug is the one thing holding them together. Maybe they can move forward together from here.

Fair enough. Lovelace is not getting along with Hilbert, but "a man's life is at stake, that is above all else, on this we agree". Huh. Seems Hilbert's coming around. He was trying to kill them earlier. I guess talking about his sister struck a nerve. But I've still keep a gun on him. Just in case.

29%. Those are rough odds, but you don't have any other options so... oh. Doug doesn't want to leave her? 2.7 years left?

"Don't you want to go home?" oh please tell me they don't split up the team. Minkowski is gonna have to go back, she has a husband.

And uh. What happened. That was not a good sound.

Tell me Hilbert didn't open the door.

Tell me the aliens didn't show up.

WHAT.

Well that...is not supposed to happen. SHOCKWAVE?

ALIENS? TIME LOOP? PORTAL?

UGH... it's super late guys and I gotta get to bed, but MAN I hope I can listen to more soon. Thanks for reading!

[triple-a-ace]

i can't sleep and its because of wolf 359

[crossguild]

imo one of the pitfalls of podcast fandoms being so incredibly white is that a lot of people miss the HUGE racial aspect of 'shut up and listen', an episode where lovelace (the only canon woman of color in the podcast) has to initiate a conversation about the way eiffel has been alienating & othering her throughout the entire series-- an episode specifically written by gabriel urbina, a costa rican immigrant to the US

memoria is rightly regarded as one of the most podcast episodes of all time, but shut up and listen is the episode that made me stop and go 'holy shit', because it is a really, really nuanced depiction of privilege & microaggressions that really could only have been written by an immigrant of color

i obviously don't speak for every poc in the w359 fandom, but i can say with a lot of certainty that a lot of us heard that episode, where lovelace, hera and minkowski tried to speak to eiffel about how his shitty behavior has been affecting them while eiffel continually tried to downplay and deflect how harmful his behavior was, and went 'this is exactly what it's like trying to talk to white people'

and that's a person they like, who they've rallied around and have gone to lengths to help and protect despite the way eiffel treated them, because they recognize that his intentions weren't harmful and that he truly did mean well

and after lovelace spoke to him, the first reaction eiffel had wasn't to recognize the harm he was doing or to change his behavior, it was was to immediately reassure himself that he's 'not a bad guy' (something lovelace neither said nor implied), and then to seek validation from minkowski. and the conversation with MINKOWSKI reflects what a lot of fans of color end up doing in primarily white fandom spaces, where we want to participate but in doing so have to tolerate endless microaggressions:

in fandom spaces that are mostly white, where all of the active members are white, and poc rarely speak up or leave very quickly, the reason isn't because shit isn't happening; it's because we've decided that picking those fights isn't worth it, because they don't result in any genuine reflection or change

they'll try to frame the insensitive comments as 'just a joke', without malicious intent-- which lovelace pointed out as well:

the way eiffel immediately took criticism of his ACTIONS as a reflection of his value as a person is pretty standard stuff for white people (and really, for ppl in any position of privilege who want to frame criticism of levers of power and their complicity in them as a personal attack) and that extends to how people engage with characters too

i've had conversations where people project onto characters so much that they take mild criticisms of the character personally, like getting mad when we talk about how jacobi is a condescending asshole and eiffel treats women pretty horrendously, or getting upset when we point out the ways minkowski fell short as a leader while she grew into that role, which was in canon a major part of her development as a character

it's pretty apparent when white people respond to any conflict as though they were being personally harmed by poc asserting boundaries, or they take other people having a differing opinion as an invalidation of their experiences (which weirdly enough only seems to happen when it's poc with the conflicting opinion), and the only solution i've found to all this is really to just curate your own spaces.

relying on other people to genuinely change their behavior when there's no actual pressure, desire, or requirement to do so is just setting yourself up for disappointment, and unfortunately that's been true in every fandom i've ever been a part of! people who don't know how to exist in a diverse space are VERY obvious, and usually weed themselves out, and conversely white people who can handle being in a diverse space are everywhere too

anyway! i think people really need to listen to 'shut up and listen' (a very pointedly named episode) with understanding of its context and intent-- that lovelace, an alien and a black woman, pointed out that eiffel was behaving terribly about her being an alien (which has direct parallels to the treatment she experiences as a woc) and he immediately tried to make it about himself and his value as a person instead of the impact of his actions on others.

hera, whose AI-ness has parallels to disability, and chronic pain, and trans identity, understands that eiffel cares for her but she still took the time to point out that his actions hurt her regularly, yet all that time her asking him to stop was less important than his own cleverness and pop culture references.

and minkowski, whose background as an immigrant (esp an eastern european immigrant during the cold war era) means she has always had to put up with being alienated for her name, her accent, her way of speaking and communicating if it's not exactly the way other people expect her to. she knows eiffel likes and respects her; but his own comfort was more important to him than demonstrating that respect.

and it took him a while, but eiffel DID eventually shape up, he recognized what was expected of him as a friend and a crewmember-- which makes him a whole lot better than most non-fictional people LMAO