#welp. here I am a firm believer in doing whatever you want with fiction because its fiction and its not real so

[bookwyrminspiration]

you know, I didn’t really know where I was going with that ask. I’ve spent many a day regretting not sending it on anon. I think it was created from my visceral hatred of sokeefe and trying to come up with some other explanation for their sokeef-y behavior in canon. I actually planned out a whole fic for them, but I was terrified of actually talking about it publicly because of how people treat other ships with a dubious age gap.

both had to adjust to the Elvin world, and both are supposed to be warriors. They’re both considered some of the best of their species. I know a lot of people have gotten annoyed by Ro as more and more of her personality becomes Sokeefe- basically, it’s a toxic yuri Sokeefe alternative. I figured it’d be interpreted as a crackship, but now I don’t really know

Ah don't worry, you're good! Well, I can't speak for anyone else in the fandom, but at least with me you're alright. It's fiction. Do what you want; others can chose to block tags/not engage. You don't need to justify it

You bring up several great points! I'd also add that part of Sophie's story is that she's been introduced to the elven world, is trying to adjust, but finds that there are parts she doesn't mesh with. espeically when it comes to matchmaking. Rejecting that total conformity by turning instead to Ro, who would embrace her more for her oddities (though likely with a lot of teasing) could work well for that arc. Though if you're leaning further into the toxic aspect you could use that teasing as a basis. How Ro both understands her better than anyone (for many of the reasons you listed) and yet also never will understand her enough (because Sophie will always be too human).

If we're incorporating the sokeefe aspect into it, you could use that as telling of an unhealthy obsession. Ro getting so invested because she imagines herself as Keefe and wants to live vicariously through them, and ends up overstepping boundaries and making them uncomfortable in her imaginary pursuit. Great basis for a relationship 👍(lying)

There's certainly a lot to work with, however you want to take it! I only asked about the crackship thing because I have been sent several before, but it didn't seem the same, so I just wanted to verify :)

[sage-nebula]

mannnnn thank you for validating my dimitri salt because the fandom take of (usually f!)byleth """saving""" him with their (usually her) """warm hand""" etc. etc. gives me the heebie jeebies. i get that there's a lot of young people in this fandom who haven't necessarily worked out yet that no one should feel responsible for "changing" their significant other! but seeing it everywhere is annoying and i'd rather be over here in my own private salt mine, thank you very much >:(

You are very welcome. Putting the rest of my response under a cut so those who don’t wish to see this don’t have to.

First off, as a disclaimer, I just want to say: I don’t think you necessarily have to be young to be attracted to the “power of love saves all” trope, and I am also a firm believer that you can enjoy something in fiction without endorsing / liking it in real life. I myself am a fan of some dark tropes; I love drama and angst, and I have been known to put characters into downright awful situations that I would never want anyone to suffer through in real life. Fiction serves many purposes, but one of those purposes is to allow people to explore ideas that are dark or terrible in safe avenues that hurt no one. This is why there has been fiction that depicts things like gruesome murders, for example, for centuries. People who write books about murderers (usually) don’t actually murder people themselves, nor do they want anyone to be murdered. They’re just telling a story they thought might be interesting, and others who enjoy that type of story (but also probably aren’t murderers and wouldn’t want to murder anyone in real life) are reading it. So it’s entirely possible that people who are drawn to the idea of F!Byleth “saving” Dimitri from his “darkness” with the power of her love are adults, and are also people who wouldn’t go for that sort of thing in real life. That’s completely possible, and I don’t begrudge those people for it. You do you, and all that. If that’s your type of thing, great. More power to you.

But as you’ve gathered from your posts, I personally don’t like it at all.

I haven’t finished Azure Moon yet, but so far I hate … pretty much everything about the way Dimitri’s character has shaken out, and how his relationship with Byleth is being forced now. Because let’s get one thing clear: Dimitri’s feelings that Byleth “saved” him are almost as much of a 180 as his feelings regarding not wanting to kill Edelgard, with potentially even less explanation if you can swallow that he, for some reason, believed that Patricia was the first Flame Emperor because Cornelia (enemy and known liar) said so as she was dying right off the bat without any proof to back up the claim. When Dimitri first saw Byleth after five years, he at first thought they were a ghost, and then accused them of being a spy, and THEN went on to say that he didn’t really care either way so long as he could keep murdering people (and still later said that he would “use [Byleth] and [their] friends until [their] flesh fell from their bones” so, yikes). It wasn’t until Dimitri saw Dedue that there was any sign of his behavior changing even slightly. Dedue’s reunion got the romantic sounding music. Dedue brought out the softness in Dimitri. Dedue comes across as a far more natural love interest for Dimitri than Byleth ever could. Once Rodrigue kicks the bucket, Dimitri still pushes Byleth away until he breaks down into a Woe Is Me speech and Byleth offers their hand. At that point Dimitri’s gratitude and fondness for Byleth begins being pushed very hard, in a way that feels unnatural and unrealistic given how he’d behaved up until that point. If Dimitri had been more broken up and touched at Byleth’s reappearance after five years, sure, maybe. But as it stands it feels unnatural, and leads me as a player to believe that Byleth flat out just did not mean as much to Dimitri as they meant to Claude or especially Edelgard.

But all of that—the bad writing, of which there are other instances in Azure Moon, to the point where in my opinion this feels like the Conquest of Three Houses—is a minor issue. The bigger issue is the fact that the game pushes that we’re supposed to sympathize with Dimitri and see him as a tragically heroic figure when I … don’t, at all, for multiple reasons.

The first, and perhaps biggest, issue is the way his trauma and mental illness is being used by the narrative as the defining reason for why we should sympathize with him. Dimitri was traumatized when he was about fourteen by seeing his parents, friends, and others killed brutally in front of him during the Tragedy in Duscur. (Note that in this same incident Dedue witnessed GENOCIDE CARRIED OUT ON HIS PEOPLE, HIS FAMILY MURDERED RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM, but the trauma that he should have from this is basically never touched upon, and instead he acts as though people from Faerghus—you know, the kingdom that COMMITTED GENOCIDE AGAINST HIS PEOPLE—should not associate with him lest it stain their reputations. Hmm. Hmmm.) Somehow, at the tender age of fourteen, Dimitri went on a brutal killing tirade during this incident, delighting in bloodshed, which understandably disturbed and traumatized Felix (whose own brother was slain during that incident, mind, albeit not by Dimitri obviously), who then cut ties with him, not wanting to be friends with someone like that anymore. (Note: Everyone acts as though Felix was the bad one for this, rather than thinking it reasonable to not want to be friends with someone who delights in murder and bloodshed.) As a result of all of this, Dimitri regularly hallucinates the ghosts of his dead relatives and friends, and devotes his entire life to avenging them by murdering whoever was responsible for the Tragedy of Duscur, as well as whoever gets in his way of accomplishing that. (Note: “Who was responsible” is something Dimitri will accept with basically no evidence. He believes Edelgard was responsible because she called herself the Flame Emperor and wore a similar outfit to the one he saw back then. Never mind that she is his age and thus was also a fourteen-year-old child at the time; no, he believes she must have magically made herself the size of an adult and was capable of killing not only her own mother, but also his father (who carried a Hero’s Relic!) and countless others. Because that makes sense.)

So. It’s clear that Dimitri has deep-seated trauma, and it’s understandable that he would have trauma from such a grisly, horrible event. It is also true that not everyone reacts to trauma in the same way, and that there is a definite stigma against those who don’t react to their trauma in ways that people can twist to be “cute” or “endearing”. I’ve talked about the Good Survivor vs. Bad Survivor dichotomy among fans on my blog before, and I stand by everything that I said. However, there are several key points to keep in mind:

Not all behaviors can be classed as just “Good” or “Bad”, and furthermore, even if two behaviors are agreed upon to be “Bad”, that doesn’t mean they’re on the same scale. Being asocial and snapping verbally at people isn’t the behavior of a “Good” Survivor, but it’s also not nearly as bad as actually murdering people and doing it as slowly and painfully as possible. Getting on someone’s case because their trauma makes them reluctant to socialize or trust isn’t the same as calling them out for torturing people to death. This shouldn’t have to be said, but this is tumblr, so I’m going to say it.

Succinctly, a shitty past does not excuse a shitty present. Yes, Dimitri was traumatized. No, this DOES NOT justify his actions even before the timeskip, much less after it. Similarly, Dimitri lampshading that his behavior is bad and calling himself ~a monster~ doesn’t make it better, either. If anything, it makes it worse, because Dimitri knows that what he’s doing is horrible and he continues to do it anyway. Just because you’ve been traumatized (rather through a single incident or years of abuse or whatever) doesn’t give you a free pass to do whatever you want. You are accountable for your actions and behaviors, always. Trauma may explain why you behave the way you do, but it does not excuse it.

The problem with the narrative portrayal of Dimitri on Azure Moon (and arguably Verdant Wind as well, since we had an Alas Poor Dimitri moment when he was killed on Verdant Wind despite him literally calling for the deaths of everyone on the field in that path, straight up telling Claude to his face that he was going to kill him) is that the game pretty much flat out tells you that you should sympathize with Dimitri because of his trauma. Oh sure, Felix calls Dimitri “the boar prince” and routinely chews him out, but if you tell Felix that you’re not going to talk to Dimitri shortly after the timeskip, Felix tells you to “not give up so easily” and that Dimitri surrendered his humanity in pursuit of becoming a better killer, as if that’s supposed to make him sympathetic. Rodrigue tells Byleth that he wishes that he had the courage to “scold” Dimitri, but doesn’t actually do anything about it. And every single person present, including both Rodrigue and Gilbert, go along with whatever Dimitri wants, even when what he wants ignores the problem of the fact that Faerghus citizens are starving to death in the streets because of the situation in the capital. Dimitri flat out tells EVERYONE that he is all but abdicating his duties as king in the name of revenge, but rather than Rodrigue or someone else experienced coming to the logical conclusion taht he is therefore no longer fit to be king and relieving him of those duties (not necessarily violently; I doubt he would have put up an argument), they instead just go, “welp, nothing we can do about it we guess” and go along with what he wants, leaving the people to suffer, because Dimitri is of the Blaiddyd bloodline and, well, he’s a sad boy and they feel bad for him.

I shouldn’t have to say it, but I’m going to: This is disgusting. It’s disgusting that Dimitri’s trauma is used as a way to try to make the player feel bad for him despite the atrocities he commits time and again right there on screen. When Byleth first returns to the monastery after five years, it’s to find that he’s decorated the place with Empire soldier corpses. Byleth has to mercy kill Randolph before Dimitri can rip out his eyes, something Dimitri grows angry with them for. Dimitri says, immediately after that, the line that has stuck with me: “I’ll use you and your friends until your flesh falls from your bones.” He’s told that the people in Fhirdiad are starving and dying in the streets and need help and he flat out says he doesn’t care. He relishes in bloodshed and crows at every opportunity about how he wants to kill. While both Claude and Edelgard look regretful about the battle at Gronder Field, Dimitri just once again roars about how he wants his soldiers to kill every single person present. And through it all, we’re told that this is okay and we should forgive and feel sorry for him because he’s traumatized. It’s not really his fault, it’s just, ooh, that darn trauma!

As someone who has C-PTSD from years and years of abuse, I can’t begin to tell you how much narratives like this infuriate me. Those of us with trauma aren’t mindless infants who are unaware of our surroundings and incapable of controlling our behavior. When I say “a shitty past doesn’t excuse a shitty present” and “traumatized individuals are responsibel for their behavior,” I say that from the perspective of someone with trauma that affects me to this day. My abuse was such that sometimes I still have nightmares about my biological mother that leave me dazed and distracted for the whole day. I’ve really been through it. But I’m also 100% responsible for my own behavior. It’s my responsibility, and no one else’s, to make sure that I don’t hurt others. If I do something wrong, that’s on me, and my trauma will never excuse or justify it. 

So for the narrative of Three Houses to act as though Dimitri’s rampant murder, (attempted) torture, and love for bloodshed and violence is excusable and forgivable because of his trauma is infuriating to me. It’s infuriating to me how, after that insipid ~warm hand~ moment, Dimitri launches into constant Woe Is Me speeches where we’re meant to reassure him that it’s okay that he committed so many murders for no reason other than to quench his blood thirst, it’s okay that he wanted to use his former friends as meat shields to get what he wanted, it’s okay he abandoned his people to die in the streets, that he’s still a good and worthy king and ~just what Faerghus needs~. We’re supposed to see his return to Fhirdiad as a good thing, an inspiring moment. We’re supposed to side with him when he (I assume) later acts the hypocrite by telling Edelgard that People Dying Is Wrong and that she should surrender to him instead. (Never mind that deaths caused by Edelgard’s actions were caused as a result of a war that was necessary to take down the Church of Seiros, which actually had been ruling all of Fodlan under the guise of letting the different territories rule themselves for ages, while Dimitri just killed Empire soldiers for his own blood thirst and revenge, but you know. If you ask most of the people in the fandom, Saint Didi can do no wrong.)

But the thing is, all of that is bullshit. It wasn’t okay that he committed so many murders for the sake of his own revenge fantasies and blood lust. It wasn’t okay that he wanted his former friends to be his meat shields. It wasn’t okay that he abandoned his people. None of that was okay. And I don’t want to sit here and console him and make him feel better just because he apologies and cries about how he’s The Biggest Monster Ever as a result of his actions. Because a.) his actions were monstrous, and b.) that’s an emotionally manipulative tactic, and I’m here for none of it.

Before I go any further, let me state flat out: I’m not calling Dimitri an emotional abuser. I don’t think that was the intent behind those Woe Is Me pity parties of his, from a writing standpoint, and therefore that’s not what he’s thinking he’s doing when he goes on them. I will call Dimitri many things, including a murderer, but I won’t call him an emotional abuser because I don’t think that was the intent in the writing. However, regardless of whether that was the intent in the writing or not, it doesn’t change the fact that one of the oldest tricks in the emotional manipulation book is, when emotional manipulators / abusers are called out on their behaviors and forced to answer to the things they’ve done, they’ll flip the script and start degarding themselves and talking about how awful they are so their victims end up comforting them. A very basic demonstration of what I mean:

Victim: “It really hurts me when you act like you can’t trust me and go through my phone to see who I’ve been talking to. I feel like my privacy is being violated and like you think I’m dishonest.”

Manipulator: “You’re right, I know I should trust you more. I just get so insecure and scared that you’ll leave me.” 

Victim: “I know you deal with insecurity, but that doesn’t give you a right to go through my things. It really upsets me when you do this.”

Manipulator: “I know, I’m such a horrible person. I’m the worst partner. You deserve so much better than me, I understand that you hate me, I’m just the worst and am absolutely useless and terrible and not fit to be even your friend, much less your partner.”

Victim: “No, wait, that’s not true …”

And on and on. Even if they pepper in “I’m sorry”s in there, it’s never once a genuine apology, because they spend so much time tearing themselves down in an exaggerated fashion that the victim feels like they have to comfort the person who hurt them. Similarly, when Dimitri goes on his speeches about how he’s ~unworthy to be king~ or a monster or whatever, the answer choices given are Byleth comforting him one way or the other. We’re never given an option (beyond telling Felix we won’t talk to Dimitri right after the time skip) to tell Dimitri that he is awful, that he doesn’t deserve to be king, or really to revoke our support in any way at all. And because Byleth is not given that option, the narrative is telling us that the correct “choice” (because there really isn’t one) is to sympathize with and empower Dimitri despite how heinous is behavior is. Because Dimitri was traumatized, poor thing, and thus it’s okay that he brutally murdered all those people for no reason other than his own satisfaction. 

(Note: The game never once says “revenge is wrong because it just breeds more revenge.” Even though it seemed like they were going that way with Randolph and Fleche, it’s not Fleche wanting to murder Dimitri that makes Dimitri realize that what he’s been doing is fucked up, it’s Rodrigue dying defending him from Fleche. So even if you wanted to say that Dimitri being blood thirsty and out for revenge was meant to teach him a lesson about how he should behave, it’s not, because that’s not a lesson he ever actually picks up on.)

And that finally ties into what I think you were driving at in your ask (boy, I’ve been at this for a long time), which is the narrative of someone “saving” someone else with their love. By telling the player that they, as Byleth, should excuse and forgive Dimitri for his atrocities because he was traumatized and sad, the narrative (and all the characters in the narrative) are basically pushing Byleth to be Dimitri’s therapist. And as I said in the tags on one of my Azure Moon hate posts (or maybe on twitter, I can’t remember, it all blends together), I am not here for that.

Aside from the fact that both Edelgard and Claude seem to genuinely care for Byleth the whole way through, the other primary difference between them and Dimitri is the fact that Byleth doesn’t have to play therapist for either of them. Claude, for the most part, doesn’t have any major traumas; he did have to grow up being outcasted for being mixed race, and that is its own kind of trauma which I am in NO WAY diminishing, but that trauma he faced was the more realistic type of trauma that people in real life face every day. He is still the most well-adjusted of the three. As for Edelgard, she is in my opinion even more traumatized than Dimitri, but not only is her trauma handled in such a way that it’s never used as an excuse for her behavior (the experiences that traumatized her helped her form the beliefs that spur her actions, but her actions always route back to those beliefs, not to “ghosts made me do it”), but she also pretty much keeps her trauma to herself as best she can and never hinges her emotional stability on Byleth. Yes, Byleth’s presence helps balance Edelgard since Byleth is a secondary confidant and can therefore offer counter-influence to Hubert’s toxic influence (not bashing Hubert here, I’m just saying, he is the WORST influence), but although it’s made clear that Edelgard deeply missed Byleth for the past five years to the point of lamenting about it constantly to the rest of the Black Eagle Strike Force, she also kept her shit together and didn’t wantonly murder people as a result of Byleth’s absence. When she comes to Byleth with issues, they’re usually tactics or strategy related. Byleth is only ever able to learn about Edelgard’s past in late night moments of emotional vulnerability, such as after a nightmare. And even then, Edelgard sharing those moments is less “HEAL MY PAST TRAUMA AND MAKE ME BETTER, PROFESSOR” and more “okay, I trust you enough to tell you this.” It’s not about helping stabilize Edelgard, it’s about earning enough of Edelgard’s trust to learn of her past.

This is in stark contrast to Dimitri, who, again, is completely off his shits, and him being off his shits is treated as a problem that Byleth (/the player) needs to “fix.” Felix tells you to do something about Dimitri. Rodrigue asks you to steer Dimitri in a better direction. Gilbert and Dedue both thank you for “saving” Dimitri even before he finishes being off his shits. The Azure Moon route is about forcing Byleth into the position of therapist and having them do emotional labor for Dimitri, which is hilarious if you think about how Byleth didn’t even start having emotions until teaching at the academy, but also unbelievably aggravating to me, as a player, because I don’t want to be a therapist for a murderous sadboy. I don’t like Dimitri. I don’t approve of his actions or behaviors. And I don’t give a shit what his reasons are for it. I’m not here to be his therapist or do that emotional labor, and I shouldn’t have to be. No one should have to be, except a paid therapist, and only because they’re being paid and have agreed to take on the job. But even then, Dimitri is still his own responsiblity. He is a grown fucking man. It shouldn’t be my or anyone else’s job to do this for him. Neither Edelgard or Claude (or Yuri, for that matter, in Cindered Shadows) required this much emotional labor and bullshit, for fucksake.

But of course, in all of this, I think what gets me more than anything present in the entire game is the fact how, from what I’ve seen, people in fandom by and large worship Dimitri and bend themselves into pretzels painting him as heroic while simultaneously spitting bile at Edelgard and making her out to be a villain. The contrast in their respective pages on TV Tropes is stark. I know I shouldn’t be surprised, given that Edelgard is a woman (and a queer woman, at that) and Dimitri is a blond white boy, and that’s just the way these things tend to be, but it still pisses me off and frustrates me to no end. Fandoms are simultaneously the best and worst of times and this will likely never change. (But honestly, if Edelgard’s role was filled by the blond white pretty boy while Dimitri’s was filled by the woman, I guarantee you that reception to them would be flipped right around. Guarantee.)

Anyway, this turned into a huge rant. I didn’t even expect it to be this long when I started writing. But suffice to say that while I’ve not yet finished Azure Moon, it’s currently my least favorite of the routes I’ve played (best is Crimson Flower, then Cindered Shadows because shut up I’m counting it, then Verdant Wind, and then Azure Moon; I’m ignoring the existence of Silver Snow since I cannot imagine ever not siding with Edelgard when I’ve chosen the Black Eagles), and I cannot stand Didi. He is the worst of the House Leaders by far. Considering how much he has in common with Rhea, it shouldn’t be surprising I feel this way about him, but boy, do I feel this way about him. So go ahead and feel validated, anon. You will not find Didi or Azure Moon love on this blog. You are not alone in this, trust.