#we were expecting a much worse hit than we got im honestly just really glad my house didn't flood

[caeliflammae]

elite hurricane experience (drunk as hell, just finished doing my nails, sitting out on the front porch smoking a cig in the wind)

[kittenchancorruptionarc]

[Clink! The man perks up as he hears the door begin to unlock after what felt like hours of deafening silence, at least back at home when things were quiet he could throw on some music and have it defy the loudness of the silence, but here all he could hear was himself. He tried to remain calm as he watched the surprisingly short man enter, his ears and hair just how he saw on stream. His voice filling the silence as he approaches, trying to keep focused on his face but the cigarettes quickly gaining more of his attention he gracious accepts the one placed in his mouth, savouring his first inhale, inhaling more as the smoke emanating from the Fox’s own cigarette blows over his face, clearly someone who has been itching for this relief.]

eh- i wasnt expecting them to bring me here on a silk pillow and a private jet. that shitty old van needs some new suspension by the way, i could feel every single bump on the way in, it was almost worse than when your bigger guy hit me right in the eye! i hope he wasnt two heart broken with the jab i landed on his gut, heard him coughing a little on the ride here.

[He snickers after his rambling and takes another drag from his cigarette, taking a moment in the silence to eye up the Fox, appreciating some of the smaller details even the camera couldn’t pick up, like a faded scar or some of the aging of his skin, textured tastefully from years of existence.]

yknow, i really appreciate this though. i get it and expected it, you cant treat me too well. but i guess my surrender deserved a little something.. hopefully if i can perform as well as some of your regulars maybe this little exchange can repeat.. maybe a burn per cigarette i know your fans just love burns…

[He rolls up one of his sleeves to reveal a small assortment of round burns, some scarred and some fresher than the rest, on the underside of his arm, turning it slightly to be seen by the Fox.]

wouldnt be anything too new to me!

[Another drag of his cigarette leaves his lips, his finally burnt nearly to the butt with a small ember left, he looks down to his arm and swiftly extinguishes what was left of it onto his arm, letting out a soft hiss as it goes out, leaving a raw red divet where it was shoved.]

guess im not feeling too bad, definitely better now after your gift. im pretty eager to get on camera, honestly its going to be different being on the other side of the screen. never thought id actually do it but uh hey were here now arent we? im glad your excited for it! wouldnt be much of a stream without your enthusiasm would it? sounds like youve already began cooking up a little in your head? do i get a heads up on the plans or am i going into the first round blind?

[He looks up at the Fox, watching his tail sway and ears perk as he listens. Trying to keep a relaxed demeanour as the Fox’s aura fills the room.]

[Fox rose an eyebrow at the comment about the van, he wasn’t very knowledgeable in machinery, especially when it came to vehicles, he usually let Kangaroo deal with that. Nonetheless, he nodded his head at the other man’s comment.]

New suspension, eh? I’ll bring that up with Kangaroo later. I don’t do the machine work around here anyways.

[The beastkin grinned when he heard that the other punched one of his men in the gut, it did explain why one of them was nearly coughing up a lung when they returned with him. He loves when his new stars put up a fight. It’s more fun.]

Ooo!~ I see you like put up a fight, eh? That’ll be exciting.

[Fox was about to talk about how he has multiple different methods of giving people burns, some more brutal then others, but seeing the random man he kidnapped casually roll up his sleeve to reveal his cigarettes burn scars and put another one out on himself like was a human ashtray nearly made the older man’s jaw drop. Oh, he got LUCKY. The man’s words started falling on deaf ears as Fox processed what he just witnessed, his legs shifting around a bit to hide…something.]

Oh? Um. Uh…y-yes. I have SEVERAL ideas in mind for you, little pet.

[Fox then smirked sinisterly as he saw he was at the butt of his own cigarette now, he then, without warning, quickly gripped onto the others still exposed arm with his free hand and used the other to press the somewhat still lit butt into his arm, pushing it nice and deep into his flesh so it’ll hurt worse.]

Feel good, darling?~ This is one of the MANY things I’m going to do to you on stream. <3

[protagonistheavy]

I dont have time to rant much about it but JCA season 5 is off to a sucky start. Im glad there's only a handful of episodes left because man it's really lost the charm at this point.

First off, maybe most important even... why the fuck did they straight up ruin the theme song???? For WHAT reason!! They removed the first few measures of build-up from the song so the intro just BEGINS right in the middle, but the animation still plays from the beginning, so you have this intense music replacing what used to be a snippet of "urgent mystery." And seriously, for WHAT REASON? They don't add anything to the intro animation!! In fact it's actually shorter because they put Jade and Uncle's animations side-by-side rather than separate. Yet not only does it play the whole song, but it has to awkwardly loop one of the parts because it isn't long enough! I think they did this so the intro credits could have a few more seconds to show off a few more names lmao, which is just terrible. It's not like JCA had a boppin theme song but it got me in the mood! And now it just looks and sounds so bad, the action doesn't line-up, ugh.

Drago is an interesting concept for a villain but his ineptitude and attitude as a child/teenager makes him unimpressive as the main villain. Honestly the series has a had hard time since season 2 making new villains feel like proper successors; the move from Shendu to Shendu and his demon siblings was an AWESOME transition of power/stakes, but Daolong and Tarakuda were lackluster. Drago has way too many one-liners for a guy that gets kicked into walls by Jade.

That last point is another problem, which is that the action went back to being lazy again lol. It picked back up in season 4, but it's returned to season 3 levels of "just guys hitting each other," with not enough circumstance and environmental fighting. Jade doesn't have to do any tricks or kiddish maneuvers, she just kicks people around; Uncle zaps people with his magic fish while Tohru becomes less and less competent.

And oh Tohru, god they've made him a giggling child. It's honestly disturbing how little of his old self still seems around. I legitimately wondered if he went back to having Jade's chi like in that vampire episode lol, he's just so childish and naive now. A real bummer since Tohru was for sure one of the most compelling characters.

The Enforcers aren't around : ( Bad move, these are just such good and funny characters, and their replacements are simply not worthy. It IS funny to see Strikemaster Ice make a comeback, I wasn't expecting that lol, but him and his two buds are nowhere near as interesting as the Enforcers. Additionally, their Drago-given dragon-forms are just sooooo ugly, oh my god. Considering we already did the "turning henchmen into super-henchmen" thing once before, this is pretty hard to look at, clearly the inferior take on the idea. It's taken lifeless characters and made them look even more lifeless, harder to tell apart, and with nothing making them unique; when the Enforcers became Dark Chi Warriors, they had individual weapons that made them varied as fighters, but these guys are all just dragon things with fire powers, it's a real downgrade and just straight-up looks worse.

So this might be a disappointing end to JCA. I think what's unfortunate is that the series had so much innate charm that the writers didn't capitalize completely on, I genuinely think they just didn't have the creativity to make strong and emotional episodes that an adventure series like this needs. I think A LOT about one particular quote from Alex Hirsch... a show ten years ahead of JCA lol but still relevant. Alex explained that when writing an episode for Gravity Falls, the episode couldn't just be "evil tooth fairy," it had to be a compelling plot about, like, Mable loosing her teeth, or going to the dentist -- there had to be a human character arc that made the evil tooth fairy aspect have context and relevance. JCA badly needed this sort of emotional touch and thinking, because they clearly understand what COULD make the characters more compelling, but they failed to weave that into the episodes themselves. Take the episode about Jade's birthday -- which has NOTHING to do about Jade's birthday, other than it's something she keeps complaining about while they do typical episode stuff. In a better written version of the episode, the plot of Jade's birthday would be interconnected with things happening, it would serve a purpose -- but it's just a random element here, a random point to put pressure on the characters, that ultimately goes nowhere related to the rest of the episode.

Anyway I do love this show but after watching it almost completely, I suppose I do understand why this show didn't retain popularity. The first two seasons are great, but not so fantastic that it shines through its later, less impressive seasons. My brainrot tells me so many ways this series couldve been way more interesting lol, but something like this is super unlikely to inspire any remakes or reboots, so, it is what it is. A cute toon. The ultimate question I have to ask is: is it better than Kim Possible? It isn't. Kim Possible claims another head.

[enjxxl]

|| jake x reader

genre : angst ; idol

pairing : idol!reader x idol!jake

warnings : crying ; reader is insecure about themselves : fluff towards the end if you squint hehe

word count : 2.2k

note : sorry for any miss spellings, i don't do any proof reading. also this is written to where corona never happened.

you never realized how hard it was after your debut, even harder than your trainee days. especially when you debuted through a survival show.

all throughout the survival show you were nervous if you would even make it to debut as you felt, compared to the other members on the show, you lacked talent. during the last episode of the show you had lost all hope as the members were being announced, your hope slowly going down the drain. and as you stood with one other person you felt it in you that you weren't going to debut. but as the last person was announced it hit with surprise. your name was announced. it all felt surreal to you and you couldn't believe what the judges had said. had they really said your name?

you had looked towards the other members standing to the side, grins on their faces as they motioned for you to join them. when it finally had hit you that you made it, you couldn't help but burst into tears as you thanked the judges for giving you the opportunity to debut and thanking all the fans who had voted for you.

now, as you sit in the waiting room after your debut stage you couldn't help but feel giddy. the sweat rolled down your face and down your back but you didn't particularly care, you were just happy you finally had the chance after the 5 years you had spent training and working for this day.

"how'd it feel, y/n," your manager sat down next to you as they scrolled through their phone, looking at what was next on the schedule.

"surreal," you sighed out, the exhaustion rolling through you in one hit. as much as you loved the feeling of performing and seeing all your smiling fans you couldn't help but loath the exhaustion that came with it.

"glad to hear, next on the schedule is a variety show so get ready for that," your manager walked out leaving you by yourself in the small room. because you were the only girl in your group, you had to use a separate waiting room from the rest of the boys but you were honestly glad as it gave a moment of peace from their loud and bubbly personalities.

you finished getting ready for the next schedule and walked out with your manager when he had come back to get you. you had dressed down in comfier clothing as you knew you were just going to change again as soon as you got to the other building.

"y/n! i can't wait to watch the performance of us tonight!" you met up with the other boys as you walked out of the building and you agreed with the tall boy. jake, the tall boy, was the first person you had made a connection with during the survival show. you were thankful that jake was the first since he had helped you all throughout the show. when you were struggling with anything, jake was always their to help you. you were growing so fond of the boy that you couldn't help but slowly grow feelings for him. of course you would never be able to tell him since you were both in the same group but you couldn't help what your heart was feeling for him. you knew you had a 0% chance with him and as much as it hurt to admit and come to terms with, it was better that way.

"i bet it caught you stepping on my foot, jake," you couldn't help but scold him and slap his arm as during the performance he had stepped on your foot twice.

"it was an accident," he pouted, rubbing his arm. you smiled at him and gave him a side hug while you walked outside the building, not noticing the cheeky smile he had given you as you wrapped your arm around him. however, what you had not expected as soon as you walked out was to be bombarded, the flashing lights shocked you and blinded you for a few seconds as you instinctively hid behind one of your members, burying your face behind his back so as to not be blinded again. you were pushed and pulled from every direction as you tried to hold onto him but you were soon separated from the other boys the only thing holding back the fans were two bodyguards, one on each side. you lifted your head and continued walking, trying hard not to stumble and fall from the blinding lights.

your heart race picked up as you kept walking as it felt like it was taking forever to get to the van which wasn't even parked far away from the building you were exiting. when you finally made it into the car you threw yourself inside and sat next to a worried jake.

"hey, you ok? who would've thought it would already be like this," he looked at you, a worried expression on your face as you breathed a sigh of a relief as you saw all seven of them in the car as well.

"yeah, im fine, i just got lost in there," you sunk yourself into the car seat as the van started driving to the next destination. the other members gave you worried expressions and after reassuring them once more they all either went to looking at their phones or sleeping during the short car ride.

the only one who never looked away was jake. he noticed your shaking hands as you held them trying to not make it too obvious you were so shaken up about what had just happened. he grabbed your hand in his rubbing his thumb across the back of your hand to help calm you down.

"i'm ok, really," you whispered out the reassurance but you honestly didn't know who exactly you were trying to reassure, jake or yourself.

the rest of the schedules wrapped up nicely and as you all arrived at the dorm you immediately went into your room, throwing yourself onto your bed. you were exhausted from the first day of jam packed schedules and all you wanted to do was rest as you had to be up in only a couple of hours. the dorm was filled with busy sounds as all the members caught up with each other before it finally died down as everyone had been tired and wanted to rest.

as exhausted as you were, you were anxious. the debut performance was finally up and you wanted to see what the reactions were so naturally you had searched up the performance. you watched the performance one time all the way through, beaming at your members. they all looked so good and you did in fact notice the camera was able to get in frame jake stepping onto your foot not only once but twice. you giggled to yourself as you saw your face scrunch up slightly in pain and jake showed a shocked expression. it only lasted for a second as the camera cut to a different shot but it was still a funny moment you caught.

your nervousness amped up as you scrolled through the comments, most of them were positive but there were a few that stood out to you.

sh**** commented

why did hybe even let a girl like that debut? she has no talent and she's so unattractive. ridiculous.

ex****** commented

the other members must be embarrassed to have a girl like her in the group, her dancing sucks and her vocals are non existent how is she even a main vocal???

even though there were more positive comments about the performance you couldn't help but let the negative comments get to you. tears welled up in the corner of your eyes and they finally started dropping as you kept reading the comments. all the negative comments were about you. your mind couldn't help but blur all the words together in your mind ; talentless, embarrassing, unfit, untalented. it was all overwhelming and you couldn't help the sob that left your mouth. you covered your mouth, looking up towards the door and waiting in silence for a few seconds to make sure no one was coming and let the tears flow down your face.

thinking about all the events that unfolded earlier in the day, you couldn't help but feel engulfed with all the emotions you had kept inside of you throughout the day. you had looked forward to your debut for years and even though you enjoyed being around your members and you know you had fans that accepted you and loved you but it still hurt to know you had so many who hated you.

a knock at the door halted your running thoughts and put them on pause as you looked up, finding a concerned jake peeking through the door.

"y/n? what's wrong, oh my god are you ok?" you were stilled in shock, not expecting jake to suddenly come knocking at your door. he came in kneeling down to your level and grabbing your face in his hands.

"i thought you were asleep," you muttered up a response as you tried to wipe your tears, failing in the process as even more tears fall down.

"hey hey, you're doing ok. i promise," jake tried wiping your tears but his efforts were in vain as his fingers were being drenched with your tears. as soon as those words left his mouth you couldn't but let out a sob as the weight of his words hit you. you didn't feel like you were doing ok and the thoughts went from still to running again.

jake, seeing that his words only made it worse, wrapped his arms around you whispering even more encouraging words in your ear. you wrapped your own arms around him and crumbled in his embrace.

"they don't like me jake, maybe i'm really not fit to be in enhypen," you stuttered out your feelings. once jake wrapped his arms around you, you knew it was over. jake knew how to make you weak and he knew how to make you vulnerable without him even trying. you hated how he could see through you but you were also grateful. grateful that even if he didn't reciprocate the same emotions as you did, all you really needed was his presence.

"i don't know what's going on behind that pretty little head of yours but i need you to know that you are fit for enhypen. it may not seem like it but we all need you and enhypen wouldn't be enhypen without you. you are perfect the way you are," jake always knew just the right words to make you feel at peace. your thoughts finally stopped and dispersed, his words filling the earlier negative ones.

"thank you, jake i don't know what i would do without you," you hugged him tighter than before and you both finally let go of each other, him wiping the last few tears off of your face.

"how about we get some sleep? we have to be up in a few so let's get as much rest as we can," you agreed with him and you both got up. he left your room not long after and you swiftly got into bed, pulling the covers up to your shoulders, the only thing peeping out from under the blanket was your head. not long after jake had left, he came barging back in, scaring you as you were just about to fall asleep. you watched as he laid a blanket and a pillow down on the floor next to your bed, getting under the blanket and resting his head on the pillow. you looked up at you as you were peeking over the bed and gave you a smile.

"what are you doing?" you whispered.

"im sleeping right here, i don't want you alone on your first night after debut and plus, everyone else has a roomate anyway," he gave you one last glance before closing his eyes and getting comfortable on the floor. why did he always know what to do? why did he always make you feel special?

you ignored your fast beating heart and laid back down in your own bed. after a few minutes of silence you still laid awake, staring at the ceiling of your room.

"jake?"

"hmm?"

"can i hold your hand?" you let your hand rest over the side of your bed as the weight of your words settled into the quiet night and you couldn't help but get nervous. you didn't know why you were getting so bold but you wanted to be comforted and held. and holding hands was close enough.

after a few seconds you finally felt his hands grip yours tightly and you felt his warmth comfort you in mere seconds. it wasn't long before you had fallen asleep, your body shifting closer towards the edge of the bed so you could hold jake's hand more comfortably. jake, however, had not succumbed to the night, him looking up at you as he let out a sigh.

"what do i do, y/n? i really like you."

[beomglocks]

unlikely allies ; txt x reader

part: two ,,,, next chapter / previous chapter

plot: when a zombie apocalypse breaks out in your town, you’re forced to team up with a group of boys from very different social standards in your school.

genre: fluff, angst, horror i guess?, not really that scary but alright, some funny moments

w/c: 4.2K (was in a writing mood)

warnings: blood, gruesome scenes (kind of really detailed), cursing, everyone hates each other, definitely some major injuries, zombies duh, everyone kinda pining for mc

︵︵︵︵︵︵︵︵︵︵︵︵︵

"we're alive, you're alive, it's gonna be ok."

usually, when people say those words, everything ends up going completely wrong. the phrase gets jinked and turned over on its head making the situation worse. in your case, that didn't happen. if anything the situation got better somehow.

"after we met in the hall i headed to the gym to get the bat you suggested," beomgyu explains softly. you and him were seated on one of the benches in the locker room.

after what happened earlier with the zombie, you distanced yourself from yeonjun and taehyun who were currently exploring the locker room for other resources. luckily, none of the other zombies outside knew you all were in here so it was safe to say you were in the clear for now.

"actually if it wasn't for you, i'd probably be dead," he laughs looking down at his hands. you noticed there was a lot of blood on them but didn't bother to ask where it came from. after all, you all seemed to be in the middle of a zombie apocalypse. "i could say the same," you chuckle. you honestly don't have to energy to talk but you figure a new face to converse with who isn't someone you despise is nice.

"no but really," he suddenly turns serious. "if it wasn't for you, i would've never gone to the gym in the first place. i probably would've been turned into one of those monsters while in the hallway, unsuspecting." you don't argue with him. if he thinks you saved his life then so be it. "i'm grateful seriously," he mentions softly. you look up at him bewildered, "you're grateful? if anything i'm the one who should be grateful," you laugh a genuine laugh this time hoping to lift the gloomy mood. "if it wasn't for you i would be the living dead right now," you smile bitterly.

you can feel him staring at you but you don't look at him. you don't want this conversation to turn into a battle of who saved who and thankfully he doesn't continue it.

"uh i-i think just last week we were working on a lab together," he scratches the back of his head nervously. you lean back on the bench, "oh yeah, i remember. wow it's crazy how things can change so drastically in a matter of days." you look around the locker room in thought, "i wonder what happened to everyone else, i mean how can something like this happen?" you continue.

he sighs, "i really don't know...like i said, i headed to the gym after we saw each other. everything seemed normal. i was in the batting room looking for a metal bat then i hear the locker room door burst open. i figured the baseball team was about to start practice so i walked out while trying to hide the bat under my shirt." he looks at you sheepishly as you laugh at his attempt at stealing. "well one of the members of the team was in the corner of the locker room just scratching his arm like crazy! i'm talking deep wounds with blood dri-" you cut him off, grimacing. "r-right well, i asked him what happened and all he told me was not to go out there. i was confused so i look into the gym and see people eating each other than coming back to life and doing the same to others."

he closes his eyes but winces as if remembering a bad memory, "it was crazy, i was so starstruck that i didn't even realize the guy from before had already turned. it's a good thing i heard him making those weird noises or else i would've turned too. unfortunately, i had to kill him using the bat." your eyes fall on the bruised and bloody bat by his side. it must've taken beomgyu a lot of hits to figure out where exactly to aim to kill. "how did that other one that attacked me get in?" you ask.

"well apparently the one that attacked me wasn't the only one to come in earlier. he must've been hiding or something," beomgyu sighs, looking at you again. "look y/n, im really glad yo-"

"we didn't find anything useful other than the bats and some paddings," yeonjun strolls into the main locker room with taehyun looking dejected behind him. you glance at them then look back at the ground. you're not sure why you're angry at them, it's not like they could've done anything at the moment. suddenly the sad realization hits you: yeonjun is a self-centered asshole who doesn't care about anyone and taehyun barely knows you so why would he risk his life.

beomgyu mutters something silently to himself but you don't hear it. "so what are we gonna do now? we can't just stay here forever," yeonjun sits on the bench opposite of yours with his arms perched on his knees. you stay silent, not really wanting to talk anymore. beomgyu ruffles his hair, "let's see... we have bats and the baseball teams protective gear somewhere around here but I don't think going around killing all the zombies in that gym is a good idea. we will definitely not make it out alive."

taehyun sighs angrily, "damn it, we can't just stay here. we're bound to get hungry or worse; wanna use the bathroom. we need to find a way out to find more people. i still believe we're better in numbers." he notices you haven't pitched any ideas yet so he looks at you expectingly.

when you don't answer, yeonjun groans, "cmon y/n how long are you gonna keep acting like this?" you look up and see he's looking at you with a bored expression. "look sorry we couldn't help or whatever but honestly what did you expect us to do? no offense but you're acting like a child." you don't wanna give him the satisfaction of knowing that what he said got to you so you bite your lip and glance at the ground.

"yeonjun when you put 'no offense' in front of an offensive statement it doesn't make it any less offensive,” beomgyu rolls his eyes. "plus, they almost died. do you really not have any empathy oh wait i forgot you're a selfish jackass who probably wouldn't think twice about throwing us to the wolves." in all the time you've known choi beomgyu, which is a couple of months roughly, you don't think he's ever stood up for himself or others for that matter.

"beomgyu," you warn silently. you guys already have enough problems as it is, you don't need a fight breaking out. "oh look who's getting bold," yeonjun chides. "you save one person and suddenly you're the hero of the story," he rolls his eyes. "news flash, y/n doesn't like you."

beomgyu's eyes widen and you see his ears turn red. "shut up yeonjun," he says through gritted teeth. "oh yeah y/n by the way beomgyu has an embarrassingly massive cru-" before yeonjun can finish his sentence he's on the floor with beomgyu on top of him.

"guys!" taehyun shouts. he wanted to break up the fight before the zombies outside were alerted. none of the boys on the floor were listening though and you had a huge wave of deja vu hit you.

unfortunately, this wasn't like the last fight you witnessed because yeonjun was far stronger than his opponent this time. although beomgyu had the advantage of throwing the first punch, yeonjun had the advantage of actually being able to fight. "y/n doesn't like you! they'll never like you no matter what you do!" yeonjun shouts in between punches. "fuck you!" beomgyu retorts, trying to shield himself. you see taehyun conflicted on whether or not he should break up the fight since his wrist is still damaged.

"guys stop!" at this point, both boys are in a blind rage. both shouting at each other and throwing wild punches. you all hadn't heard the banging on the locker room door. until it was too much to handle. the lock was busted open in a flash causing all of you to whip your heads towards the door.

the force of all the zombie's dog piling on the door after hearing the commotion of the living on the other side must've been too much for the door to handle. "run run RUN!" taehyun grabs you and bolts towards the second doors of the locker room leading towards the girl's side. you didn't even have time to look back and see if yeonjun and beomgyu had time to get off the floor and run because before you know it you're in the hallway again.

"we have to get to the first room we see," taehyun pants. you both run past all the strangler zombies in the hallway and you're glad taehyun takes the brunt of the force. since he's the one that picked up some of the equipment his arms are paddled so it's fairly easy to take some force from the zombies jumping at a chance to bite him. you run close behind him grasping his hand tighter than you'd ever held anything.

you suddenly remember all the times you'd scream at a character in a horror movie when they trip and fall. sympathy rushes through you because it definitely wasn't easy.

"in here!" taehyun rushes towards the nearest room and barges through it. it took a bit of force since there seemed to be stuff blocking it from the inside but you both managed to get through it before the horde caught you. as soon as you get in the room you heave for air, you'd seriously never run that fast in your life. you turn around towards the now-closed door and to your dismay, beomgyu and yeonjun are not there.

"damn it we got split up," you mumble through deep breaths. you sincerely hope they're both ok. you turn back around but before you could get a chance to discuss with taehyun you see he has his hands up in surrender. "wha-" that's when you hear a gun click.

your eyes widen when you see soobin appear from the shadows of the room with a gun in his hands. that's when you realize where you are, the principal's office.

"soobin!" you're confused as to why he has a gun pointed towards you guys but you're glad he's alive. "get any closer and you'll end up like the principal," soobin spits. you finally look towards the floor where the principal's desk is located and see what looks like a body but it's unmoving.

"oh my god," you mumble. "dude what the hell," taehyun steps forward and soobin turns the gun towards him. "get away from me! i don't know if you're infected or not!" you're very worried because soobin looks like he's not mentally capable of wielding a gun at this moment.

you finally survey him and the room. his hair is an absolute mess and he has more blood on his face and body then you remember. his clothes look pretty normal except for the scratches and blood on them. they didn't seem to go that deep just enough to rip his clothes. the room on the other hand was a total mess. the bookshelf was on the floor and the chair in front of the principal's desk was flipped over, there were books all over the floor and the couch that was used for lounging was turned upside down. that's probably what was blocking the door.

"soobin," you warn. he points the gun at you. "we're not infected." you hope you sound calm. you don't want to give him a reason to think you're a zombie. "there's no way," he mumbles. "everyone's dead! there's no way you guys made it out alive."

"it's true!" taehyun encourages. "yeonjun, beomgyu, y/n and i are alive from what we know." soobin eyes you both, "where are they then?" you sigh dejectedly, "we got split up."

"look, we promise we're not infected! we haven't gotten bit or scratched or anything, please put the gun down," you step closer to him and when he doesn't wave it at you you grab it from him and throw it on the floor.

soobin steps back towards the wall and sinks down to the floor holding his head in his hands. "damn it! i hate this!" he mumbles. "what the hell happened in here?" taehyun asks. he walks towards the principal's body and cringes.

soobin sighs, "he was already one of those monsters when i got here, it was a struggle trying not to get eaten but i found a gun hidden under the desk. i guess it's a gun meant for self defense so that's what i used it for." you look down, processing his words. he was in here alone with a zombie. you're amazed at his ability to stay alive in such a tight situation.

"do you have any wounds, we have a first aid kit," you motion towards the bag on taehyun's back. he gives you a grateful smile, "thanks." you take the bag from taehyun while he watches you closely. he feels weird but he can't explain it. he doesn't want to watch you patch soobin up but he doesn't say it out loud. he decides to busy himself with looking around mindlessly instead of thinking about that.

in the meantime, you kneel down to help soobin. he watches you take out everything from the first aid kit. "sorry," he bites his lip. you chuckle dryly. this is one of those times when soobin looks and acts soft. you've only interacted with him a couple of times before with the extracurricular activities and fundraisers your school held. you knew he could be nice when he wanted to, he just got into fights a lot.

seeing him up close made you realize why so many people in your school fawned over him. he had looks that could rival yeonjun's. the only thing differentiating them was that soobin was actually kind of nice. "it's fine, you were scared," you say softly. instead of responding he opts for watching you silently. he's seen you around school and during the fundraisers and whatnot but never thought much about it. were you always this cute? sure, you had remnants of blood on your face but it didn't seem to take away from your looks.

he shakes his head at the thought. he shouldn't be thinking that about you, he barely knows anything about you other than your name and that you were seemingly willing to go out your way to help people. you give him a confused face and he just looks down at the ground. you cant tell what he's thinking and don't really dwell on it. you wet the cotton ball in your hand with alcohol, "this might sting." he doesn't say anything seemingly lost in his thoughts.

"god, why are these boys so weird towards you," you think to yourself. you gently dab the cotton ball on the cut on his face and he flinches violently. his hand flies up to grab your wrist and he looks at you with wide eyes. "i told you it was gonna sting," you shake his hand from you and sit back waiting for him to regain himself. "sorry i didn't hear you. i wasn't ready for that," he groans, cracking his neck. "ok now."

after you finish patching soobin up, which including him flinching a lot and you telling him to calm down, you let him rest on the floor. taehyun has been seated on top of the principal's desk this whole time just spaced out, looking out of the window. you join him but wince when you see someone on the floor getting eaten. you turn back to him but he's still looking outside.

"i don't think calling for help is gonna work," he says emotionlessly. you sit on the desk beside him. "hey don't say that, there could be people alive out there." you sound like you're trying to reassure yourself more than him. "what if there's no one?" he turns to look at you. "this is so messed up y/n." you see the unshed tears hidden in his eyes and you wanna comfort him but also don't wanna make it awkward. you opt for taking his damaged hand in yours and rubbing it with care.

"i know the situation is really messed up and everything but so far we've managed to save like three people including ourselves. if we keep going maybe we'll be safe and find anyone out there that can help us," he watches you trace his bandaged wrist like you're in a trance. a sudden realization hits him out of nowhere: you're cute... and super caring. he bites his lip, changing the subject, "sorry for not doing anything, back then."

you look up at him and give him a tight lip smile, "it's fine. i guess i might've been expecting too much from you guys, i mean we didn't even have anything on us. beomgyu was the only one with a weapon." you're not mad anymore since he did manage to get you both to safety afterward. you sigh, letting go of his hand. you don't notice him visibly deflate. "i hope yeonjun and beomgyu are ok. i didn't get to see what happened after the door busted open."

taehyun lays back on the desk and covers his face with his arm, "i'm sure they're fine." you hear a groan from somewhere in the room and you flinch, instinctively shuffling closer to taehyun. he bites back a smile from under his arm. you look around and sigh when it's just soobin trying to stand up again. "what are you guys doing?" he goes to sit next to you but there isn't any more space on the desk since you're sitting and taehyun's laying down. he frowns and goes for the principal's seat instead.

"just looking outside, feeling hopeful...others hopeless," you smile at him, hoping to lift the mood. soobin hums, spinning around in the swivel chair, "i'm pretty hopeless." you frown and suddenly soobin feels guilty that he made you upset. "i mean i'm just saying that since i saw a bunch of innocent people in the hall get eaten alive, that's all. there might be some hope outside of the school."

there's a silence that falls upon you three and you're not sure what to say. thankfully soobin speaks up and he hopes it doesn't sound awkward when he says it, "how long have you two been...together?" this causes taehyun to sit up, "what do you mean by that?" soobin raises his hands in surrender. "i was just wondering when is it that you two met up."

"yeonjun and i found him in the nurse's office. that's when everything went to shit," you mumble. "yeonjun? that prick is still alive?" soobin scoffs. "hey, he may be an asshole but his plan got us out of that office," you chide. taehyun stares at you, "you're standing up for him when he called you childish and started that fight?" he says quietly.

"what's wrong with standing up for yeonjun? i know he's a dick but i think he might actually be helpful. he could've left us back at the nurse's office but he decided to stick around. that's commendable, i think," you don't even know why you're suddenly sticking up for him when he hasn't really given you a reason too. maybe it's because you feel bad that he's not actually here to defend himself.

"great another one," you hear soobin mumble under his breath. "another what?" you narrow your eyes at him. "another person that only exists to suck up to yeonjun. here i was thinking i might actually like you," he chuckles flatly. "excuse me?" you can feel embarrassment and anger bubbling up in you.

soobin and taehyun look at you with wide eyes. "let me get one thing straight, i don't live to suck up to anyone, especially with the way things are. if you have a problem with me sticking up for people who aren't here to defend themselves then i'll leave. i don't care if you like me or not," with that you walk up to the door. the hallways seem pretty clear so you go to open the door.

"y/n," taehyun whisper shouts at you. "don't go out there alone, i'll go with you." he frantically moves to pack up his bag once again. you see soobin move to stand up and walk over to you too but you remember what he said. "i don't want anyone of you around me, i'll find other people on my own. wouldn't want you to think i'm sucking up to everyone who tries to help me."

"that wasn't what i meant, i just- fuck y/n- wait," he reaches out towards you but you close the door quickly. you start walking down the hallway, not really knowing where to go. "this was a very bad idea," you think to yourself. so far there's no zombies in the hall you're currently on but you can't shake the fear that's lingering behind you.

you figure taehyun and soobin didn't follow after you or just didn't get a chance to see where you went. you kind of hope they stay put at the principal's office for when you come back with more people. you're pulled from your thoughts quite literally when you're yanked into the janitor's closet.

you go to scream but a hand covers your mouth. you blink a couple of times for your eyes to adjust to the dimness of the tiny space. this is a tiny closet only meant for brooms and mops so your body is very pressed up against whoever is in here with you.

you look up and see yeonjun smiling down at you. he has blood all over his face from the fight that kind of looks like he tried to wipe it off but failed. "oh my god yeonjun," you whisper. you're not sure why your being quiet but you don't want any potential zombies passing by to hear you two.

"hey y/n," he whispers. "how the hell are you alive?" you ask him. "well considering the fact that taehyun is a baseball player which makes him a fast runner, beomgyu and i couldn't keep up so we went into hiding in the girls locker room since it was dark. the zombies followed you guys so once we heard no more commotion we left. beomgyu didn't wanna hang around me so he went around tryna find you." yeonjun rolls his eyes at this.

"you should've stuck with him asshole. im worried about his wellbeing," you bite your lip in worry. you really don't want anything to happen to anyone you've met so far. yeonjun keeps looking down at you, "y/n."

you look back up at him and see his face riddled with worry, "am i really that unbearable, that people would rather die than be around me?" you shake your head viciously. "what? don't say that! i mean sure you're a dick but anyone can change."

you both don't break eye contact for a moment and it kind of starts to feel stuffy in the closet. yeonjun suddenly speaks up, "do you like beomgyu?" your eyes widen and you start to feel heat rise up your neck and cheeks. "n-no, well i don't know...yet. i-i really don't know. i guess he and i are friends and maybe if we talked mor-" in that moment of you stuttering over your words, yeonjun leans down, as best as he can in such a tight space, to place a gentle kiss on your lips.

your eyes widen and you realize you aren't really doing anything so you decide to kiss back. you're so confused right now but decide to let the moment flow. he nibbles on your bottom lip and you let your mouth drop open for him to use his tongue. he somehow manages to push his body closer to yours and wraps his arms around your waist. the kiss isn't rough or needy and is nice but it feels wrong and weird, especially given the circumstances.

you pull away and lick your lips. yeonjun tries to chase your lips but you push him back gently. "why are you kissing me," you ask him shyly. "do you even like me?" this is the part where he hurts you. you wouldn't say you had strong feelings for yeonjun but you did think he was good looking. even though he was mostly mean to everyone you hoped he would change and be a good link to the tiny group you all formed.

"i think so, i don't really know yet to be honest," he answers you. you nod and sigh, satisfied with his answer towards you for now. "sorry for what i said earlier. you weren't being childish, i'm sorry i couldn't help you back then, and im sorry for starting that fight."

you reassure him that its fine but you still feel a weird pit in your stomach worrying about beomgyu. you hope he's ok.

✼ •• ┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈ •• ✼

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[normal-thoughts-official]

The world keeps spinning (it really shouldn't)

Vance did it. He defeated Josephine, saved his grandpa and Elliot, and saved the town. Everything's fixed.

No. Everything is awful. He failed, and now his friend- now Tom is gone.

And he'd rather fight Josephine all over again, because it'd be easier than what he has to do now- tell Andy about it.

Fandom: It Lives (Visual Novels)

Relationships: Andy Kang/Tom Sato, Danni Asturias/Imogen Wescott, (dannimogen is background and very brief but i couldn't resist), Andy Kang & Ava Cunningham & Lucas Thomas & Lily Ortiz

Additional Tags: tom dies and everything is awful, Angst, Grief/Mourning, Friendship, for basic context im going with the version of ILITW that i got, which is that everyone survived and noah took jane's place, and then for ILB i did the version where tom dies obviously, (which is not the version i got), (everyone survived), (i feel the need to say this for my own ego), but anyway i was like what if tho. andy would be devastated, and then... this happened?, only difference from canon is that ILITW MC told everyone about noah a lot before, also like. imma be real with yall, im physically uncapable of giving my MCs serious names, so ILB MC was named That Bitch and i didnt want to give him a real name, cuz it felt like betrayal, so im just calling him vance for this one, is it his nickname? is he called vance vance? dont worry about it, Anyway that's it, Pining, you know. before the death part. it's mentioned, also we're ignoring the whole richard tries to murder MC thing, cuz i dont have time for that, so pretend ILB ended on chapter 17, Hopeful Ending, considering the theme i mean

Read it on Ao3

The city of Westchester looks exactly the same, but somehow feels a lot less wholesome, now. Vance walks in it and feels like a corpse among the living, like a ghost screaming to everyone that something's wrong. And being ignored.

It shouldn't look the same, without Tom.

But no one knows, yet.

He swallows, running a hand behind the nape of his neck. That's why he's here, anyway - they should know, they deserve to know, and he doesn't want to have the funeral without Tom's friends there.

Which is why he's going to tell Andy. Himself, in person. Because he might not know him very well, but he wants to do the right thing, and that's the least Andy deserves. He knows there's no one Tom loved like he did Andy, and from what he's seen of them together, the feeling was mutual.

He has to do this. But he feels sick, just thinking about that bond, and how it was ruined.

How could he let this happen to them?

He was so cocky, so stupid, so reckless... He thought everything would turn out okay. Assumed it would, even, because it kept getting him through it, to think that everything would turn out fine.

God. What a joke.

He walks into the little diner Andy had recommended. I'm sure you've heard of that place, Tom loves it, he had texted. We always went there to celebrate our wins back in high school. His stomach had churned, but he didn't say anything, because he wasn't going to tell Andy via text. He has to do this right. It's the least he owes him.

So he pretended that everything was fine, and agreed to meet him there. Woke up, and dragged himself to the place, trying to muster up the courage to face the world that seemed to not even care about his mistakes.

When he gets to the diner's door, he takes a deep breath, trying to ground himself for what he's about to do. Face his own mistakes. Face the pain he caused when he failed them both.

He walks in, and to his relief, and despair, Andy is already there. He smiles brightly when he sees Vance, and Vance wants to disappear.

"Vance! Nice to see you, dude. I heard about what went down in Pine Springs, glad you're okay," he says, not giving time for Vance to answer before continuing, this weird sense of calm and sympathy about him. "So, I assume you still need help with that ghost? From what I've seen in the news, it seemed like you handled it pretty well, but it's not like they are giving us supernatural updates or anything, so I figured there were still some loose ends to tie. Are the other guys coming? Where's Tom?" he looks over behind Vance, and Vance wants to die at the question. God, how is he going to tell him? He didn't really think about that, beyond the part where he has to. "I kind of thought you'd come together again. Bad move to come separated, Tom is always late to everything, I swear if it weren't for me he'd have been kicked out of the team for missing practice too many times. And I'm not the most punctual guy in the world, mind you, but I still had to drag his ass there so he'd be on time- is everything okay?"

Vance is a little shocked by the question. It's not, but what is he supposed to answer? "Andy," he says, a little careful, "things… went a little wrong, back there."

"Oh, shoot," he says, "I'm sorry, man, I kinda assumed, when I heard about how the flooding and the animal attacks were in full swing and then just stopped suddenly, that that was when you got rid of the ghost, you know? And seeing you all in one piece… I thought it was over already. Do you need help? I can round up the guys, and we can go-"

"No, Andy," Vance says, "the ghost is gone."

Andy looks at him, confused. "Then what's the problem?"

"Tom," he says, then winces when he sees all the color drain from Andy's face.

Andy waits for barely a second, then breaks into anxious questioning. "Tom? Why? What do you mean? Is he hurt? How bad is it? Did he have to go to the hospital? Where is he?"

Vance wants to cry. God. God. He can't do this. "Andy..."

Andy just looks at him, eyes wild, terrified, and it hasn't even hit him yet. "Vance. Vance. Please. What happened? Does Tom need me? Because if so, we need to go-"

"Tom's gone," he says, and it leaves him in a rush, a whisper, taking with it the last of his energy. He's empty, and somehow, it's still awful. "He's… he's dead, Andy."

Andy looks at him, eyes wide, unfocused, lost. "This isn't funny," he says. "If Tom put you up to this, knock it off right now. Tell him not to ever joke about-"

"Andy," Vance says, then swallows. "Tom wouldn't joke about that. You know that."

"No, he wouldn't, but..." His eyes begin to water, panic settling in, gaze darting across the room as if searching for him, "But… No. No. No, knock it off."

Vance starts crying before Andy does. "I'm sorry, Andy."

--------

Andy is in shock. He freezes in place, mouth hanging open, everything about him completely still except for his eyes, still so damn wide, still searching the place, searching Vance, begging for something, anything. Vance sits him back down on the table, gently, and Andy lets himself be handled back, eyes still not settling on him.

"I'm sorry," Vance says. "I… I promised you that I would take care of him. I tried, but… I'm so sorry."

"How?" he asks, "how could this happen? This isn't… After Redfield, when everyone survived, I just… I didn't think any of us could lose to another monster, I..." He shakes his head, vigorously, desperately. "This was supposed to be over. We were done, we were free, it was supposed to be over, we were all supposed to be safe, it shouldn't..."

"I'm sorry. It all happened so fast, I… If I had been faster, maybe..."

"Well, it's a bit late for that now," Andy snaps, and Vance bites his lip, not recoiling, because he deserves it. Then Andy stops, as if realizing what he had said, and for a second, his eyes seem clear again. He shakes his head. "No. I'm sorry. I… If there's anything I've learnt from everything that happened, it's that we can't point fingers when things get hard." He finally looks up at Vance, shaking, eerily still, nothing like the guy he was just seconds ago. He's wrecked, Vance thinks, and he wants to tear at himself in guilt. "What happened? Did he- did he drown, or… Did the ghost..."

"We were fighting monsters," Vance explains. "There were just… So many of them, and it all happened so fast, I..." he looks away, not daring to look back at the memory, not daring to remember the awful scene. As if he has to. Everytime he closes his eyes, it's back, punishing him. "We got his body," he explains. "Pine Springs is taking the victims to mass graves, but we wanted to give him a proper burial. I thought… You'd want to come."

Andy seems surprised, like that hadn't crossed his mind. "You haven't buried him yet?"

Vance bites his lip. "No. We're doing it tonight. We didn't have the time before, and… Well, I thought you'd want to be there. And I think he'd have wanted his body to be in Westchester, so..." He trails off.

Andy looks at him, hesitant. He bites his lip, looks away, then back at him. "Can I see the body?"

Vance does recoil, this time. He wasn't expecting this question. "I… You won't want to."

"What do you mean, I won't want to? I need to say goodbye to him, I-"

"Andy," he says, as gently as possible, because he deserves Andy's anger, all of it, but he won't let him do that to himself. "You won't want to remember him like that. His body…" He looks at Andy's eyes. He's still furious, livid, shaking, and he's lost, and Vance realizes that he doesn't get it, doesn't understand what Vance is saying, and this might be even worse than having to tell him Tom is dead. "It's torn to pieces, Andy. There's not much for you to see."

Andy freezes, for the second time that day. "Was he- oh, god," he looks at his own shaky hands, somehow even more in shock than before. "Was it… At least, was it quick?"

Vance starts crying again. He opens his mouth to answer. He can't. He chokes on the words, on his guilt, on his uselessness. "I'm so sorry, Andy."

------

Andy throws up. Once, twice. He doesn't insist on looking at the body. Obviously, he can't. Just imagining it- it's too much.

He tries to comfort Vance, because he- he's trying to do better, with his anger, with his impulsiveness, but all he can think about is how much he wants to destroy something, and honestly, the whole conversation is a blur. He punches the wall instead, once he gets home. And throws up. Again and again. Sends his friends a message, letting them know about the funeral. Cries. Punches the wall again. And again, and again, hoping that his hands will start to bleed, that he'll tear himself apart. His mom asks what's got him so angry, and he yells, "Tom is dead!". Her face twists in shock, and he can't look at it. He runs away.

Being back outside is almost worse. Everything- it should be in shambles. The whole town, the whole world should be on fire, fizzling, filled with screams and despair, like Andy is. He's never lived in a world without Tom before, never been away from him his whole life, and it shouldn't look like it's just the same. Everything should be gone, destroyed. And it is, but it doesn't look that way, and Andy wants to tear it all apart until it makes sense, at least.

He hates Westchester now. He hates it. God damn the stupid woods, and the stupid cult, and the fucking Power! God damn Andy for telling Tom about it, for letting him become this sort of- monster hunter, for believing that just because they overcame a ghost once, it would keep happening if they pushed their luck.

This wasn't supposed to happen.

Tom can't be dead. It's impossible.

How can Andy still be standing, if Tom isn't here?

---------

He wanders like that the rest of the day, not noticing the hunger that builds up after going a whole day without eating, not noticing the passersby looking at him worriedly, not noticing the thousands of missed calls from his mom, not noticing anything but this awful despair. He knows the feeling of wanting to claw his chest off intimately well, but it's never been like that before. He wants to carve himself hollow. He wants to scream. He wants to run. And he runs from the all-encompassing nothingness, even though he has nowhere to go.

He goes from angry to empty, and then back to angry, all day long, and the day passes in a blur.

--------

Andy meets up with Vance and two girls from their crew. Their group was pretty small, he realizes. A lot smaller than Andy's was, all those years ago. Three years ago. Forever ago. Another lifetime. Just yesterday.

The cemetery is empty, but there's a grave with a black casket they're standing next to. "I thought all the cemetery crew was helping Pine Springs," he says, like he cares. Honestly, he hadn't thought about the logistics of this at all.

"They are," Vance confirms, serious. "You, uh… You know about Noah, right…?"

Andy nods. "Yeah, we, uh, reintroduced ourselves to him a little after you guys left." It was weird, to say the least. All that anger, all that betrayal, bubbling up again right when they had all started to move on from what had happened, to think that it was over… The urge to scream at him, demand answers… And then seeing all the hurt, and the confusion, and remembering that they had loved Noah, once, most of their lives, and that at the end of the day, the only one who had suffered from his actions was himself.

It wasn't easy to forgive. Not to Andy. Or Stacy. Or Ava. But they had been working on it. Maybe they couldn't forgive, much less forget, but at the same time, they couldn't get rid of that bond, either.

Still… "What does this have to do with… With Tom?" If Noah had anything to do with his death, Andy would kill him all over again. He doesn't care about his freaky powers, he'll die if he has to, but Noah will pay.

"He, uh, helped. Dig the grave and, uh, get a casket. That's how we got everything ready."

Oh. "I… I see," he says. "Is he here?"

"No. I told him you guys were coming, and he said it was better if he left."

"Oh," Andy answers. "I guess that's… Yeah. Still..." he raises his voice a little bit, in the direction of the woods. "Thank you, Noah."

He doesn't see or hear anything, not really, but still, somehow, he can tell that Noah is pleased. He can picture Noah's smile and that fragile little "friendsss..."

He sighs, suddenly exhausted.

Vance seems to notice, god bless his soul. "Are the others coming?", he asks, gently.

"Lily, Lucas, and Ava are," Andy replies. "The rest were out of town, and they… They won't make it."

"I'm sorry."

Andy kicks a pebble. "It's fine," he says. It's the kind of lie that's so absurd that it becomes true. Nothing is fine. It'll never be fine. So it doesn't matter at all, and it ends up being fine.

Vance seems to realize what's going through his head, somehow, because he looks unsure of what to say. Finally, he settles on, "uh, Andy. These are Danni, and Imogen," he says, gesturing to each of them, and Andy musters up enough energy to look at their faces while he does that, at least. Then, his eyes widen for a second, finally taking in what they look like.

"Wait, you're Imogen Wescott?" he says, a little dumbfounded. "When I heard that name, I kinda expected you to be, you know..."

"White and insufferable?" Imogen asks, a little smile directed at him, so gentle he can barely handle it. "Yeah. That's why I'd rather go by Genny, usually."

Danni frowns at her, slightly troubled. "You never told me that."

Imogen's smile turns a little brighter. "Oh, no, not for you, Danni. For you, I'd rather go by 'babe'".

Danni also smiles at her, and they squeeze each other's hands, and the edges of grief seem to turn just a little softer for them both. Andy can tell that things get just a little easier for them, just a little less grim, because they have each other. And he needs to look away, wants to run, because he and Tom… They could've… In a way, they were...

He feels like he's ready to run again. God, he fucked up so bad. What was he supposed to do now, how could he get better when the one thing in the world that always made him feel better was Tom? He lost him, he's gone, it's over, and somehow it hadn't hit quite the way it did at that moment, looking at that connection, that love that showed through grief. He averts his eyes, feeling wild and cornered, and turns back right in time to almost run into Lily - who looks devastated, and reaches out to touch his arm. Which feels crazy, because Andy is raw, and his whole body is bleeding, and rotting away, and who would touch him-

"I'm so sorry, Andy." She says, and Andy finds himself hugging her tight, and he feels like she should wither, die at his touch, suffocate, but she just hugs him back and pats him and Andy cries on her shoulder, and he's never cried in front of her before, much less like this. But he can't stop, he can't do anything, he's so heavy and dizzy and lost-

And Lily is stronger than they give her credit for, because she holds him, this endless weight that is him, even when he shakes and stains her sweater with tears, like it's nothing. She feels so solid, right then, the only solid thing in the world. She's got him, Andy knows, and it's like finally he ran into something he can take shelter in. He takes a deep breath, then another, and holds on for dear life.

"I'm sorry," is the first thing he says, maybe the only thing he knows how to say right now. Maybe this is how Jane felt, in the end - this endless spectre of regret, bigger than everything, than everyone, encompassing her and drowning her until it ate her whole and left her empty, with only the Power and its evil inside her.

He's so tired, but he's not empty, not yet.

He almost wants to be.

"Don't apologize," Lily says, so sad and sympathetic, and it takes Andy a moment to realize what she's even talking about. "I'm really sorry, I..."

It's only then that Andy's eyes focus enough to see Ava and Lucas standing a little after her, their faces twisted with sadness and bodies frozen in place. At times like this, it really is obvious that Lily is the bravest out of all of them, by far. Andy doesn't think he's ever cried in front of any of them, and Lucas and Ava look- completely lost.

Lucas is the first to talk, out of them both. His voice is very soft. "Andy, if there's anything you need..."

Ava interrupts, words leaving her way too fast. "We'll be staying with you tonight." She blinks for a second, frowning at Lucas. "Sorry, I, uh, hadn't realized you were talking." She looks like she just came out of a daze. She probably had been running that in her head for a while. Lucas puts his hand on her shoulder, and Ava runs a head on her neck, embarrassed.

"It's okay," Andy answers, even though her apology wasn't directed at him. "You don't have to, you know, watch over me or..." He trails off.

"We're not leaving you alone," Ava says, resolute. "You know the others couldn't come, but we all agreed that we should be… You know..."

Andy chokes on something he can't quite feel. He looks down at his feet, and he hasn't felt this small in years. "I… Okay."

Ava reaches out to him, hesitant, and gives him a little pat on the shoulder. Lucas starts rubbing his back soothingly, and, very awkwardly, they gravitate into a group hug. Andy can see the nervousness in Ava's eyes, the worry that she's doing this wrong somehow, like a hug is the most complex thing in the world, and he tries to muster up a little smile of encouragement to her, but he's forgotten how to do that. He doesn't know how to do anything, anymore.

Slowly, they separate, and all three of them still keep some sort of touch with Andy - even Ava, with her hand close to his shoulder - like they're trying to anchor him, but he drifts away anyway, lost in whatever it is that's left of himself.

Vance looks down at him for a moment, as if waiting for a signal, but Andy doesn't know for what, so he waits for Vance to figure it out. Finally, he says, "should we start?"

Andy frowns. "Wasn't there some other guy with you? Pork something?"

Vance, Imogen, and Danni all look at each other, uncertain, surprised, for a moment. It's Imogen who speaks up. "He��� He left us."

Ava swallows. "Did he also..."

"No," she says, shaking her head, sadly. "He, uh, deserted the group."

"He what?" Someone asks, shocked, almost outraged, and when Andy sees the looks in everyone's faces, he realizes that it was him.

"He couldn't take it," Vance says, face twisted with sadness. "All the fighting, the monsters… He left."

Andy is shaking. Falling apart. About to explode. "When?"

Vance doesn't look at him. "Right before the final battle."

"He abandoned you when you were going up against the evil ghost?"

"He..." Vance begins, then finds that he has nothing else to say. "Yeah."

"How…" Andy begins, lost for words, and then it happens. He explodes. "How dare he!" He screams. "Tom was counting on him, he trusted him, he needed him, and he just left? He should have been there! He should have been there, he should," Andy looks at his own hands, in shock, watching them tremble and go out of focus, like there are tears blocking his vision, and he feels sick, on the verge of death, and he realizes that he's not talking about that guy at all. "He should have been there!" He slips from his own control, falling to his knees, covering his face, feeling shame, shame, shame, hatred, disgust. "He should… I should… Oh God, I just let him go alone..."

"Andy..." Someone says. Maybe Lucas. Maybe Lily. Maybe the Imogen girl. It sounds so sympathetic. He wants to claw at his own skin and hide.

"I should have been there, I shouldn't… I had experience, what was I thinking..."

"Tom didn't want you to go," someone else says, gently. "I was there when you talked, remember? You didn't abandon him. You said you were going to come, and he told you not to."

"Tom.. Tom is not my damn boss," Andy answers, still covering his face, feeling the tears stop spilling and start to drown him from the inside, and god damn T, the least Tom deserves is for him to be able to cry properly- "I-I should have… gone," he chokes, shaking.

The next one who speaks is Ava. "He wouldn't have wanted you to be at risk, Andy."

"I don't care. I don't care. I'm selfish like that, I'd rather it was me. I could have helped him, I could have saved him, even if I had to- to take his place..."

"Andy..." is all Ava says, sounding shaken, devastated.

"Fuck!" He screams, punching the ground beneath him as if trying to punish the earth for taking Tom. "He would have never left me like that, I could always count on Tom, I could always..." he feels his chest constrict, or maybe burst, with all the tears and horror inside of him, like he's cracking from the inside. "Always..." he can't form the words, can't find the air, and he falls in on himself, more, more, more, closing in, suffocating, "always..." he can't breathe. He can't breathe. He tries to draw it in, to keep himself steady, but every time he tries to bring it in, the air escapes from him again, further, abandoning him, and he wheezes, again, again, closing in further, suffocating, oh God, he's going to die…

"It's a panic attack!" Someone screams, then kneels beside him, putting their hands on his shoulders. "Andy. Andy. Focus on me. You need to breathe. Deep lungfuls. Come on. I'll count to four. Keep breathing in. 1… 2..."

"Can't," he wheezes. It's too strong, like there's something… Something constricting his chest, inside and outside, and then he realizes… "Binder." He sits down straighter, no longer closing in on himself, and that awful vulnerability gets even worse, but it's easier to breathe. He follows the person's counts… 1, 2, 3, 4… Then up to five, then to six, then to seven, then eight… Until finally he doesn't need help, and he opens his eyes and contemplates the absolute mess that he is, and Imogen's kind, relieved face just inches from him.

"Good, Andy, you did well… I have these sometimes, too, I know how scary they are, you were so brave..." Imogen keeps on saying, painfully understanding, and he nods, a bit exhausted to explain. He didn't take his binder off all day, didn't remember… And if he wears it for too long, he's more prone to hyperventilating, especially if he's stressed. Tom knew that. Tom would have known what was going on. Tom… Fuck.

"I'm sorry," he says, to everyone, and no one in particular.

"Don't apologize. We're all glad you're okay," Lily says, and he realizes that, somehow, she had also kneeled beside him and brought him into another hug. He hides his face on her shoulder, shaking his head, trying to breathe. Breathing. She pets his head, a little bit, and he can feel some more touch, too - little pats on his shoulder and back, all gentle, not crowding him, like he's some sort of wild animal they're trying to calm down.

God, what a mess.

He holds Lily tighter, wanting to hide from the world. She lets him, because it's the kind of person Lily is. He feels himself drift away, for a while, but Lily's still petting his head and he can't lose himself completely. He shakes his head, wanting to fight it, almost wanting to get away from Lily, but he can't escape the gentleness in her embrace. He still can't cry, but he feels his eyes water and burn anyway, and he shakes his head against Lily's shoulder. He just wants this to be over. Please, he's so exhausted.

His breaths even, despite himself, but Andy keeps shaking, and he keeps shaking his head slightly against Lily. He wants this to end, it has- has to be a nightmare…

"Shh, Andy, don't hold it in, it's okay," Lily says, slowly, sadly, and Andy shakes his head more vigorously. No. He can't be weak right now, it's only going to make it last longer. He needs to end it, can't be done with this until Tom has gotten his goodbyes.

It's the least Andy owes him, now that there's nothing else he can do.

So, he speaks up.

"We should go on," he says, suddenly feeling resolute. It's easier to do this if he has something to focus on. He needs to see this through the end, for Tom. If he thinks only about that...

"Are you sure?" Vance asks, hesitant.

Andy nods, forcing his vision to focus. "He needs to rest."

----------

Everyone's speeches go by in a blur. Vance talks about how good Tom's heart was, how he was willing to drop everything to go help a bunch of strangers, how everyone could always count on him. He cries, and he says he's sorry, and the girls put their arms around him, tell him that he did his best. Imogen brings up how kind he was, and Danni talks about his strength. They really loved him, Andy notices, and feels his heart settle just a little bit. He was loved till the end. Of course he was.

Lucas talks about how supportive Tom was, how he was always uplifting everyone around him and would let Lucas babble on about conservation for hours. Lily brings up how much he believed in her and supported her when she was making her videogames. Ava says that Tom was the only one who ever saw her looking up Westchester's history and cults and just… Sat down with her and helped, understanding that she needed this to feel safe, to feel ready, and sharing that burden of getting ready for a disgrace, just a little bit. Andy never knew that Tom had been joining Ava for research. He could've helped with that, too. He could have done a lot of things, if he had paid more attention.

He's left for last, and a part of him wants to be a coward, to stay silent, but that was never his style.

"When Tom had turned into a zombie," he begins, "Redfi- Jane made him hurt me. And I wasn't worried for myself. I was worried for him. I wanted him back, no matter what it took, no matter what happened to me," he begins, not looking at anyone in particular, because he knows most of them already know this story, but he's not going to- he's not going to deny Tom the chance to know how he felt about him, before he rests. It's the least Andy owes him.

So, he takes a deep breath and goes on, pushing himself into saying something that matters.

"Then our friends showed up, and they said that Tom was still there. That I had to reach out to him. So I tried. I talked to him about our childhood. About how much he had been supporting me… How he was my best friend. He was hesitant, but so… Scared. I didn't know what to do. Tom and I always got each other..." He loses himself a little, shaking his head, purging the thoughts that were keeping him from going on, "And then someone said, 'Andy's hurt. H-he needs help'." He loses focus for a second, and that can't happen. He takes a breath, tries to make himself talk. "And just like that… Tom came back.

"He extended his hand to me, and helped me to my feet, and suddenly there was color in his face again, and for a second he wasn't even confused as to what the hell was going on, he just wanted to make sure I was okay. He came back because I needed him. Because he couldn't bear to hurt me. He was always there for me, and I… I don't think I ever needed him more than right now."

He stops a minute, to look at the faces surrounding him. There's a grief in them that looks almost like… Pity.

And Andy isn't even mad about it. He feels pitiful.

"I'm not the best guy with words," he admits, "so I don't know how to express how much this meant to me, or how much Tom meant to me. No one understood me like him. Tom is… Was… No, is a part of me. Maybe the best part of me, because I loved him more than anything else about myself. I'll miss him for the rest of my life." He looks down at Tom's grave, carved out of anything else to say. "I love you, buddy."

It's not the greatest speech that's ever been given, but it's what he can say, and at least he's done it. He'll be able to do better, later. He'll come back to talk to him again. As many times as he can, for as long as he can. He swears on that.

Andy steps back from the grave, and doesn't look as they slowly fill it, covering the closed casket with dirt. He finally allows himself to let the exhaustion catch up with him, and is overcome by that blissful, blissful emptiness.

---------

He's fully expecting himself to drop asleep as soon as they get to Ava's place. They decided to stay there for the night, because Andy still doesn't want to face his mom, to see that same grief in her, for her to want to talk to him, to tell him that everything would be fine. He can't do that, not today. At least Lucas had enough foresight to warn her of where they are, so she should leave him alone for now. Lucas is very reliable in a crisis, Andy thinks, making a note to himself to thank him properly later.

But he can't sleep. He's too exhausted to even rest. And for some reason, even though he doesn't want to talk, that's exactly what he found himself doing for the past few hours. Vomiting up all sorts of memories and thoughts, ranging from funny moments he had with Tom to all of his regrets, and Andy's always been kind of a stress-talker, but it's never been like this. He feels like he's been skinned alive; there's nothing to hold himself together, to hold anything at all in.

He cries all the tears he didn't think he had left in him anymore, and he curses himself, and the guy who left them in the end, and Noah, and the Power, and the cult, and himself again. He scratches his own skin until Lucas gently takes his hands in his, stopping him from doing more of it. And he talks, through all of that. Talks and talks and talks.

The words make him drift through memories, through states of mind, and he knows he's so damn volatile today, it's like he can't anchor himself to a feeling, but his friends put up with him anyway.

Finally, he starts to settle into this sort of… Slowness, like his mind is clear, or maybe blank, even as he keeps on thinking. And he keeps talking through it, letting all the minor regrets have their turn after he's too damn done to keep dealing with the worst parts.

"I never told him I was in love with him," Andy says, staring at the three empty mattresses in front of him, because it's easier than looking at any of his friends, who are currently sitting right beside him, as he babbles on. "I was going to, you know? After R- Jane. I had almost died, so I figured, you know- yolo, and all that. And then I told myself, 'I'll wait until I'm out of the hospital.' And then I started to think… What if he didn't feel the same way? What if things got weird? What if I end up losing him? And I never told him," he looks at his own feet, "and now I lost him anyway."

They all just look at him. They used up all the "I'm sorry, Andy"s left in them a long time ago, he thinks. There's only so many platitudes you can muster up when you know they're worthless, when you're just repeating yourself.

God bless them for trying, though. They're sticking with him through their own- everyone's inadequacy to deal with what's going on. Andy can't thank them enough for that.

"He knew you loved him," Ava says, serious, and Andy frowns at her, doubtful. "He might not have known you were in love with him, but… He knew how much he meant to you. I'm sure of it."

Andy laughs, humorless, "did you finally get those mind reading powers you wanted?" he says. It falls flat, but they pretend it doesn't, for his sake.

Ava rolls her eyes. "Don't be an ass, Kang," she says. "No. I just… I can tell. Anyone can."

Andy bites his lip, looking away.

She presses on, as gently as she can. "Besides, you also know, don't you? Regardless of anything else… Tom loved you, just as much as you loved him."

"I still love him," Andy says, before he can think about it, and a weird kind of shame creeps up on him - for saying it, for not saying it sooner, for realizing that this… It'll probably never go away, even now that it's completely pointless, that it's just proof of his cowardice.

"That's… Normal," Lily says, fiddling a little with her sweater. "You don't forget someone just like that, just because something happened. I mean, look at me and Britney. It took me years to get over her, and even then, I had to have supernatural forces show me exactly who she was, first."

"She didn't deserve you," Ava says.

"Maybe not. It doesn't matter now," Lily says. "The point is… It's okay to still love him."

Andy hugs his knees. "I don't think anything is okay, right now."

"That's okay, too."

They stay in silence for a moment, and then Lucas speaks up. "I know 'it gets better' stories don't really help at times like these," he says, "so I won't tell you that, but… I know what it's like, to feel like nothing will ever be okay, ever be enough. So… At least you're not alone, in that feeling."

Andy's mouth does something. It's not a smile, but it's what it can do right now. "Yeah. At least it's not like last time," he says. "With Jane. We all fell apart, and… It felt really lonely, even though..." He chokes up. "I had Tom."

Lucas rubs at Andy's shoulder sadly, and Andy shakes his head.

"It's just that he didn't get it, you know? And I couldn't tell him, about what happened," he says, instead of thinking about how much worse this is, no matter how many friends he has by his side right now. "So I… Missed you guys." He finishes, ashamed.

"We get it," Ava says, solemn. "And we're sticking with you, this time around."

"Yeah," Lucas agrees.

"Yeah," Lily adds.

"Okay," Andy answers. "I… Thanks."

They hug him tighter. It's all they have to say.

[jgvfhl]

Number Lads!!

GUYS I hit 700 followers today?? Amazing. So, I worked extra hard to get this part up and finished for ya!

Part 2/??? Read Part 1 here :) Words: about 4k, no warnings

So I remembered the Battle of Kamino is a thing. And I had just put Sevenset in Rancor battalion. Whoops! But, if you know anything about me, you know nothing really bad happens.

CT-2222 = Do-si-do = Double Trouble

CT-3333 = Trees = Green Bean

CC-6666 = Sixes = DEATH

ARC-7777 = Sevenset = ARCBoiiiii

CT-8888 = Loops = Loopy

Reading the inventory lists from the datapad in his hands was increasingly difficult. Loops rubbed his eyes and shook his head roughly, trying to refocus, to put the overwhelming feeling of helplessness behind him. The whole Wolfpack felt similarly. Every announcement over the PA system made them jump. General Koon was using his limited free time to gather with groups of troopers to help ease their minds, and it was helping, but the general had chosen an uphill battle.

Kamino was under attack. The closest thing any clone had to a home, and the Separatists were trying to destroy it. The Wolfpack hadn’t been called to the front, as was their normal position. When the battle cleared, and the dust settled, they would be there to help pick up the pieces, until another assignment called them away.

So they waited.

Worse for Loops, he knew Sevenset was in the thick of things, following the ARC commanders at the helm of the defensive actions. He knew the ARCs were the best soldiers on Kamino, and he knew the 501st and 212th had boots on the ground as well, and Generals Ti, Skywalker, and Kenobi would be there with them. He knew this. But it barely helped ease his worries.

Technically, the next Numbers meeting wouldn’t be for another three weeks, but Do-si-do had commed everyone to ask if they wanted to move up the date because of the battle. Obviously, they hadn’t heard much from Sevenset. Or from Commander Sixes, but that wasn’t as much of a worry. He was a commander, he had a whole Star Fighter wing to lead into battle. Still, the radio silence only made Loops more uneasy. But Trees and Loops had agreed to meet with Do-si-do, at least, and that would start in about ten minutes.

Pinching the bridge of his nose, Loops tried to put aside the gnawing worry in his mind to finish this inventory before the meeting. It wouldn’t be fair to hand over a half-finished inventory to the next guy on shift. So he slogged through it, walking around the denoted section of the Lightbolt’s cargo hold, reading the crates, scrolling through his datapad, until he was finally done. As he left the hold, he handed off the device to Tanner, one of the officers overseeing inventory at the moment.

“All set, sir.”

“Thanks, Loops. Get some rest.”

“Will do.”

He didn’t rest, not really. When he got to his bunk, he propped himself up against his pillow at the head of his bunk, waiting the last few minutes until Do-si-do sent the transmission to start the meeting.

“Hey, Loops.”

He looked up at the face looking upside down at him from the top bunk. “Hey, Racket.” Loops was always grateful his bunkmate never complained about some of the late-night Numbers Meetings.

“How you holding up?”

“Okay, I guess.”

“I know you’ve got a buddy in Rancor, just wanted to check in.”

The knot of worry in his gut tightened. “Yeah.” His voice felt hollow. “Thanks, Racket.”

“Haven’t heard anything yet, huh?”

Loops shook his head. “Two and Three and I are having a call soon to talk it out.”

“Ah,” Racket said, “I’ll give you some space.”

“Thanks,” Loops said, although his brother’s head had already retreated to his own bunk. Right on cue, his comm blinked its light. He hadn’t had the chance to get a holoprojector today. But he would be able to hear the others.

“Hey, Trees,” Do-di-do’s voice had a smile in it. “Loops?”

“Couldn’t get a projector today, sorry,” Loops said. “I can still hear you.”

“Oh, good.”

“Hi, Loops,” Trees said.

“Hey, Trees.”

“How’s the Pack?” Do-si-do asked.

Loops shrugged, before remembering they couldn’t see him. “It’s… well, you know. Everyone’s on edge. The general’s been helping though.”

Trees agreed. “Yeah, General Unduli and Commander Offee have been holding group mediations for the ones who want it.”

“I’ve heard General Windu’s working on that too, but…. He’s busy as all hell.”

“Yeah, High Generals usually are,” Loops said.

“Anyone else… find it kinda weird, though?” Do-si-do furthered.

“What do you mean?”

“Like… I dunno. I didn’t expect the Jedi to care this much.”

“Oh,” Trees said flatly.

“I mean--obviously, they care if Kamino is attacked,” he went on. “Because it’s producing the whole damn army, but I never thought they’d… do all this.”

It was a fair reaction. Most clones, upon encountering their generals, were a little unsettled at how… human they were. Loops had certainly had a learning curve when he’d joined the 104th. General Koon was… amazing. So, honestly, Loops hadn’t been surprised when he had offered to help his troopers through the stress of the Kamino attack. But, Do-si-do had always been a bit skeptical of the Jedi, even though, from what Loops had heard of General Windu, he would regularly go out of his way to defend his men.

“I’m not complaining,” Loops said.

There was a longer than normal pause afterwards. He eyed the blinking light on his wrist comm, wondering. It wasn’t uncommon for the signal to get interrupted by space travel.

“What are you boys gossiping about now?” Ah. Not space travel. Just Commander Sixes. His brain did a mental double take as that thought formed. Just Commander Sixes.

“Oh, uh…” Do-si-do searched for words. Trees was probably frozen again. “Just… thought some of us could use the conversation. With Kamino under attack. And all.”

There was a gruff, nonverbal reply from the commander.

“Don’t suppose you got any updates we laymen didn’t, sir?” Do-si-do asked cautiously. Loops couldn’t help leaning towards his comm. Even a little news would help…

“None any of you have clearance for.”

Loops rolled his eyes, falling back against his pillow. He should have expected it. But that didn’t make it any less disappointing.

“Sir, you know the point of this call was to ease stress, not make it worse?” Do-si-do replied.

“Armor up, shiny, we’re at war.”

_____

ARCBoiiiii: Guess who’s not dead!!!!

Loopy: kriff is it over???

ARCBoiiiii: Yep! Sent the clankers running and the Hairless Harpy and Evil Spider Legs too

Green Bean: did you just nickname… Grievous and Ventress?

ARCBoiiiii: what’s it to ya?

Loopy: are you okay sevens?

ARCBoiiii: aw loopy were you worried?

Loopy: get karked

Loopy: ...but yeah

ARCBoiiiii: where’s do-si-do?

Green Bean: dunno. might be on the wing.

Loopy: sevenset. are. you. okay.

ARCBoiiiii: ah okay. and yes! i am okay, loops. little sore, but i’m not hurt. Rancor’s casualties weren’t bad.

Double Trouble: SEVENSET YOU SONAUVA HUTT HOW ARE YOU

ARCBoiiiii: Do-si-do!!!!!! im okay :D

ARCBoiiiii: Cmdrs havoc + colt in medical tho… colt had a run-in with ventress i guess

Loopy: oh kriff--

DEATH: he’s alive after that?

DEATH: … really, boys? the name?

Double Trouble: Sevenset’s idea sir

ARCBoiiiii: Do-si-dos idea

ARCBoiiiii: kark dammit

Double Trouble: beat u haha

Loopy: lol

Green Bean: How ironic. He survives Kamino only to be reaped by Death later

DEATH: ha

Double Trouble: 0.0

ARCBoiiiii: i feel unsafe

Loopy: trees where has that biting wit been hiding my friend

ARCBoiiiii: WAIT I ALMOST FORGOT SOMETHING IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!

Double Trouble: ??????

ARCBoiiiii: I FOUND NUMBER FIVE

Loopy: Yay!! He was the one in 501st right?

ARCBoiiiii: yeah! pretty damn good sniper too from what i heard. AND GUESS WHAT ELSE

Green Bean: There’s more?

ARCBoiiiii: He and his batcher got promoted to ARCs so THEY’RE STUCK WITH MEEEEE

DEATH: I almost pity them.

Green Bean: ha

Loopy: wait what’s his name??

ARCBoiiiii: fives

Double Trouble: oof unoriginal

DEATH: Oh really, Do-si-do?

Double Trouble: wait no

Loopy: do-si-do it’s been nice knowing you

Double Trouble: nO WAIT it’s hardly fair, you’ve got Death as a name too

DEATH: Sure thing. Anyway, Fives and his batcher are Rex’s freaks, and he always takes his ARCs with him. They’ll be gone after graduation.

ARCBoiiiii: aw shucks :(

Double Trouble: that’s still like… almost three months tho

ARCBoiiiii: yessssss i’ll drag em into the next couple holos

Green Bean: But… it’s just Fives that has the repeating number, right?

ARCBoiiiii: well yeah but they’re practically inseparable, i’d feel bad

DEATH: that’s pathetic

ARCBoiiiii: one of these days we’ll find a recruit you actually like

DEATH: No

Double Trouble: speaking of, did you find number nine? Isn’t he in the 212th?

ARCBoiiiii: no… I’ll ask around, the orangios are still planetside for a bit. and i’m still on the lookout for a cadet 1111!

Loopy: glad you’re alive

ARCBoiiiii: *mwah*

Loopy: aaaaand now I’m not

-----

For the second time in about two minutes, Fives once again lagged a step so he could reach back and tug Echo along by the sleeve. “Keep up, will you?”

“Fives--”

“I don’t want to hear it, Echo, I told you already.”

His batchmate wasn’t going quiet without debate. “But we’re supposed--”

“--to be doing something very boring, now quit complaining.”

“It’s ARC training, Fives,” Echo hissed, yanking his sleeve away, but keeping pace with him behind Sevenset. “It’s all important, even if it’s boring.”

Their leader turned around, walking backwards as he said, “Well… I mean, I’ll be honest, I’ve never used the desert field training once, so…” He shrugged.

“Yeah, because you live on an ocean planet,” Echo pointed out.

“Pays off,” the ARC trooper grinned.

“Doesn’t it get kinda boring, though?” Fives asked. “The same planet over and over?”

“Boring?” Sevenset turned briefly to avoid a squad of junior cadets being led by medic. “Nah, not boring. Maybe the scenery leaves something to be desired, but hey--so did Coruscant. But helping to train brothers like you two? Never boring.”

“I think Fives would have to try to be boring.”

“I’m boring when I sleep.”

Echo turned a skeptical look on him.

“What?”

“What do you mean ‘what?’ you snore like a rancor--”

Remembering who was walking with them, they both looked at Sevenset to add, “No offense.”

And then Fives cut right back in with a rebuttal. “Well maybe I wouldn’t snore if I didn’t have your entire weight on top of me?”

Echo waved a hand dismissively. “Oh, no no no, don’t you pull that argument--”

Fives scoffed. “I am absolutely pulling that argument--”

“You snored on Rishi, and we all used our own bunks.”

That was true. They hadn’t had a reason to share until after…. “Okay, but how do you know that wasn’t Cutup?”

“Cutup--!” Echo’s incredulous tone was somewhat marred by the smile creeping onto his face. Their arguments could never keep a serious face for too long. “You don’t snore in a kriffing accent, Fives!”

Fives could no longer keep the smile off his face either, and he gave Echo a gentle shove with his shoulder. “Okay, you got me.” The gesture was returned a little more violently. Then they noticed Sevenset had come to a stop by a door, and they pulled themselves together to face him.

“You guys were on Rishi Moon?” Sevenset asked, passing his vambrace in front of the control panel to open the door. He gestured them in.

It was a small meeting room--very small, from the others Fives had seen. The holotable jutting out from the far wall probably left room for about seven people. He and Echo stood to one side of the door, hands behind their backs. Fives decided against asking why Sevenset had access to to this place.

“Yessir, we were the last men stationed there.” Echo’s answer was curt, almost blunt, but kept carefully under the veneer of professionalism he managed so much better than Fives did. It had become their standard answer for Rishi questions.

Sevenset glanced over at them from where he was typing at the holotable. “Echo, buddy, I just commandeered you from under your CO’s nose. You can drop the ‘sir.’” He looked back to the blue holograms in front of him. “So were you the ones who blew up the all-clear signal? Saved us a hell of a lot of trouble around here, I’ll tell you that. Should be thanking you.”

“There’s… no need for that.” Echo’s voice shrank slightly, his eyes dropping towards the floor. Fives sighed as quietly as he could, silently bracing for the unpleasant exchange that was sure to follow that deflection.

“Really? I hope you got medals or something, though,” Sevenset replied. He finished typing and stepped back from the table, facing them. “How’d you do it, anyway? Not easy to blow a base like that.”

“No…” Fives agreed hollowly, hoping the ARC would eventually get the karking hint and change the subject. There were already a half dozen scenes of memory playing through the back of his mind as he did his best to pointedly ignore them.

“Liquid tibana.”

He turned to look at Echo, who caught the unasked question in his eyes.

“He asked,” his batchmate shrugged helplessly, now looking anywhere except at their faces.

Sevenset’s eyebrows rose, crinkling the tattoos on his scalp, and he nodded. “Yeah, I guess LT would do the trick, wouldn’t it?”

Nope. Not getting the hint. And Echo--Maker bless him--would keep answering his questions even if it gave him a panic attack. Maybe ARC training could help him kick that habit.

“Did they really send commando droids--”

Fives didn’t let him finish. “Look, Sevenset, we don’t really like talking about Rishi.” Next to him, he noticed some of the tension leave Echo’s shoulders. “Our whole batch was stationed there, and, aside from Commander Cody and Captain Rex, we’re the only ones who survived that attack.”

Sevenset blinked, realization hitting like a splash of cold water. “Oh. Yeah, of course,” he looked down, scuffing one of his boots on the floor without much enthusiasm. “Sorry about  that. Should’ve realized.”

Fives dipped his head, acknowledging the apology. He knew Sevenset hadn’t meant any harm by asking, but at least he’d apologized. The holotable made a noise, and Sevenset practically flew to answer the incoming transmission. Fives couldn’t blame him for wanting to dissipate the uncomfortable silence that had followed his apology. He nudged Echo with his elbow, and they moved closer, still shoulder-to-shoulder, as the first two holograms appeared.

The first clone they saw sat in what looked like a cockpit, although “sitting” was a generous term. More like lounging. His head was shaved on the right side, and the long curls left were bleached and dyed a cold white. His face lit up upon recognizing Sevenset.

“You are alive!”

“Of course I’m alive, Do-si-do,” the ARC replied, once again all smiles. “I am almost offended you thought my first fight with Rancor would finish me.”

The second clone--in recognizably 104th gear--gave a tiny smile. “Here I am surprised Do-si-do hasn’t gotten a surprise visit from Death after his remarks about originality in the chat.”

The pilot, Do-si-do, made a show of looking under and behind his seat. “Nope, all clear. Sorry to disappoint, Loopy.”

“My name’s not Loopy.” He turned to look at Fives and Echo. “My name’s not Loopy, it’s just Loops.” Kind of a fun name, really. Fives wondered what his number was. Eight, probably?

“And for once you beat Trees here,” Sevenset remarked. Another hologram appeared. “Ooh, but not by much.”

Trees, by the looks of his armor, was in the 41st. But, unlike the others, he looked downright regulation, like Echo. “Sorry, I got stuck behind a gonk droid in the hall.” Catching sight of Fives and Echo, he added, “Oh, are these the new guys?”

“Yep!” Sevenset looked to them.

Without warning, Echo’s hand appeared, grabbing Fives by the jaw and turning his head to the left. “And you’ll never guess which one of us is named Fives.”

Fives swatted his hand away, Echo ducking the half-hearted attempt to put him in a headlock. “I am going to kill you,” he growled at his batchmate’s stupidly smug expression. So he liked the number; he had a good reason to like the number!

“Hey, there’s nothing wrong with it, come on,” Sevenset smiled. “You and Loops can match.”

Loops turned his face so the tattoo on his right cheek was visible. An infinity symbol? Stylized number eight? “First thing I did when I got the chance.”

“How’s ARC training treating you two, then?” Do-si-do asked with a smile.

Fives glanced at Echo. “Not too bad,” he answered with a shrug.

“Yet,” Echo added.

Sevenset smirked and nodded knowingly. “Emphasis on ‘yet,’” he agreed. “Right about the three- or four-week mark, you’ll really start regretting some life choices.”

“You survived, though,” Trees pointed out. “Can’t be that bad if they managed to drag you over the finish line.”

“I do have more than one personality trait, you know.”

“Whaaat?” Do-si-do shook his head. “Can’t believe you’re more than your carefree facade. Actually upset now.”

Sevenset raised an eyebrow at him, but Do-si-do ignored the silent challenge and just blew him a kiss through the screen. Sevenset had mentioned he and “number two” had started this group, and now Fives could indeed understand they knew each other pretty well.

“Wait,” Loops spoke up. “What’s your name?” He gestured a little vaguely towards the two batchmates.

“Oh.” Echo straightened up a bit. “I’m Echo.”

Loops waved at him.

“Is this everyone?” Fives asked, looking to Sevenset. He had mentioned the group wasn’t “complete” yet, but he hadn’t expected it to be this small.

The other four shook their heads. Sevenset answered. “No, there’s still the commander, but we don’t pretend to know when or if he’s gonna show. The others--number one, number nine, number four, and zero--we haven’t found yet.”

“And Commander Fox wants nothing to do with us, thanks to Sevenset,” Do-si-do added.

“Also true.”

Echo’s confused expression matched the questions Fives had in mind. He didn’t know Commander Fox’s number off the top of his head. Echo probably did. He’d known the captain’s and Commander Cody’s like that. But… there was another commander? They turned to look at Sevenset together, although two different questions came out of their mouths.

“What commander?” Fives asked.

“You asked Commander Fox?” Echo said at the same time.

They didn’t get answers. Well. Not explicitly. A fourth hologram appeared beside Loops, Trees, and Do-si-do. The single pauldron denoted rank. The full kit of black armor, helmet included, didn’t give many other details. So. That commander. Whoever that commander was…

Next to him, Echo tensed, just barely, but Fives could read him too well to miss it. He looked over. Fives recalled his batchmate’s reaction to meeting the captain and Commander Cody for the first time. They had reputations, they had stories, and Fives had been right with him in that sense of awe--aside from the whole… being invaded by commando droids… thing that had been happening at the same time. And right now Echo kind of looked like that. But his expression had none of the subtle reverence Fives remembered. More… fear? Not quite. He’d seen Echo scared. Who was this guy? And why couldn’t Fives place him?

“Hey, Commander,” Do-si-do greeted, like there was nothing strange about a commander in all-black armor appearing on their holotable. None of them had even gone to attention. That was a little odd.

The commander folded his arms across his chest and grunting a nonverbal reply. His visor landed on Fives and Echo. Again, Fives saw Echo’s whole body stiffen in his periphery. “New guys?” the commander eventually asked, his voice sounding an awful lot like Alpha-17’s gruff speech.

“Yep,” Sevenset nodded, not even addressing him as sir. “This is Fives, that’s his batcher Echo, and you have magically chosen to appear right when they started asking questions about you.”

“These the inseparable ones?” This man had absolutely no variation in tone, and it was going to get creepy.

“Looks like it,” Loops replied.

The commander stared at them for a few more seconds, before giving another wordless huff and looking away. “No one’s inseparable.”

Fives did not like the chill that sent down his spine, despite the words having, as before, no discernible emotional tone. Behind his back, his hand tightened around the opposite wrist, the dull pain momentarily distracting his mind from the commander’s implication. Glancing to Echo, he saw his brother’s jaw clench, his mouth pressed into a line as he stared down the holograms. Fives shuffled closer until their shoulders and arms touched, feeling his brother lean into him.

Sevenset looked between them and the holotable before taking half a step sideways towards them. “Okay, Commander Dark and Angsty, maybe don’t scare away the new guys? Thanks.”

The commander’s helmet tilted up ever so slightly--probably rolling his eyes--but he stayed quiet.

“And that,” Sevenset went on, turning to Fives and Echo, “is Commander Sixes, AKA Commander Death, and yes, he is always like that.”

Finally, it clicked in Fives’ mind. He knew about Commander Death, he just hadn’t seen any images of him. Sithspit, no wonder Echo had reacted like that. The Death Wings were downright terrifying by word-of-mouth, and that--that was their commander.

And these guys were just… chatting with him. They chatted with him… regularly. Sevenset didn’t even call him sir. What in the nine hells…?

The commander’s visor went to Sevenset. “How are Colt and Havoc? Haven’t had a chance to comm them.”

“Mm? Oh. Commander Colt’s just got out of medical. Commander Havoc got out a couple rotations ago.” Sevenset shrugged. “That’s all I’ve got.”

Fives had seen Commander Havoc during training yesterday. He’d walked a little stiffly, but from what he’d heard about his injuries, walking at all was pretty damn good.

“Did you ever find number nine?” Loops asked. “In the two-twelfth?”

“Eh…” Sevenset held up a hand palm-down and tilted it back and forth. “Sort of. I got confirmation he is in with Commander Cody’s boys, and that his name is Nines, but that’s all. Never got eyes on him or a frequency, or I would’ve patched him in.”

Echo opened his mouth, then closed it. Fives nudged him to speak. He’d already drawn attention from Loops, Trees, and Do-si-do anyway. “Well, just--Torrent works with Commander Cody’s men more often than most. We could keep an eye out for him.”

“Once we’re back with the company,” Fives added.

“Oh yeah,” Sevenset nodded. “Totally. Thanks.”

“Any word on the others we’re looking for?” Trees asked.

Sevenset shook his head. “No luck with number one over here. Still haven’t found any cadet with that number.”

Do-si-do added, “The ninety-first has leave in three weeks. My company will be on Coruscant for about a ten-day. Anyone else?”

“I’ll check,” the commander said, reaching out of frame for something.

While he was silent, Loops put in, “Well, the Wolfpack won’t be off for another month and a bit.”

Trees nodded. “The forty-first is still on for another two months.”

“And obviously the three of us aren’t going anywhere,” Sevenset said, tilting his head towards Fives and Echo. “Gotta say, that is one thing I miss about being in the Guard. Can’t see everyone when they’re on leave.”

“The one-eighteenth has leave in about a month,” the commander finally reported. “Should overlap with the ninety-first for a few days. Maybe you can find zero in there. My fighters have a mission with the Nova Corps coming up, too. I’ll see if I can find number four.”

A smug smile appeared on Sevenset’s face. “I thought you once said you weren’t our recruiter, Commander.”

The commander stared at him for half a moment, then answered, “The Marines won’t have leave for another six months. You want to find number four? This is how you do it.”

The ARC nodded, his smile never changing. “Okay, alright, I get it. We won’t tell anyone you like us.”

The commander huffed quietly, then muttered, “I’m still surprised Alpha-17 didn’t beat that attitude out of you over there.”

Echo smirked. “Well, at least that means there’s hope for Fives.”

Fives shouldered him. “Hey, I haven’t done anything.”

“Yet.”

Sevenset grinned at Fives, who found himself returning a small smile. Trees pinched the bridge of his nose. “Maker help us, there’s two of them.”

“Something wrong with that, Trees?” the ARC replied with mock severity. Fives would admit, he did like Sevenset. He liked seeing a higher ranking soldier maintain a lighter sense of humor. Most of the Teth survivors in Torrent had a dark streak--Coric might have it the worst, actually, and it was rubbing off on Kix.

“Nothing wrong, just means I’ll have to explain to my medics why my blood pressure’s so high.”

Do-si-do and Sevenset laughed, and Loops smiled. The commander just shook his head. Yeah, Fives could get used to this.

-----

Edit: I FORGOT TAGS @nl13 @darth-void @glubtheflyingfish (sorry i missed you in part 1) @blsmjoon @23-bears @theultimatesandwich @peacefulwizardfox @alamogirl80

[sanstropfremir]

kingdom episode 3 baby!!!!

listen. i’m not gonna lie i was nervous as hell for this episode. i saw that preview like everyone else and unfortunately i have ears so i was convinced the ateez stage was going to be a trainwreck. i was absolutely banking on sf9 and skz to do something even mildy interesting to save me from the ear damage and having to talk to extensively about why that disaster happened. but somehow i woke up in an alternate universe and you know what? with the exception of that high note the ateez stage fucked. i know. i don’t believe it either. i think i’m still in shock.

i’ll do individual breakdowns in order of favourites within the episode and then at the end i’ll put my personal ranking of all six. thank god i don’t have to do a stage breakdown again; if they change it again for next week i will scream.

ateez

a miracle happened. i don’t have to fight any of the staff at kq. i don’t understand either. jongho is so fucking lucky that the rest of the group pulled all that energy out of their asses because if they had been even a single iota less serious about it that stage would have flopped worse than a dead fish. i can’t believe we got this level of camp b movie schlock in the first full stage, and they stuck the landing. incredible.

fine i’ll address the elephant in the room. personally, i don’t think jongho is that good of a vocalist. he’s not bad, and he does have the potential to be a good vocalist, he just doesn’t have the training, and this is the issue with all of ateez. hanya talked about this before and i’ll say it again: he can’t switch to his head voice and he’s destroying his vocal cords by attempting to hit notes in his mid range that he should just jump to head voice for. frankly i’m surprised he got anywhere close to that note in his mid, but his technique is just not there and he’s gonna do some real damage to his voice if he doesn’t take a break and also get a good vocal coach. you can already hear the degradation in sound from their debut stage to now, and that’s in less than three years. ok i’m done talking about vocals that’s hanya’s turf, i’m pretending that that high note doesn’t exist and we’re moving on. also im in love with btob’s reaction it was fucking priceless.

costume

look, i have a one track brain and that brain can only think about seonghwa corset. seonghwa corset? seonghwa corset.

i know it’s not a real corset nor is it properly laced and i know this would never happen in a million years but a kpop mr pearl trend? i would die. just fully expire. there’s no coming back from that for me

yes i have laced boys into proper corsets before and yes it is as hot as you think it is (when it’s not work related, obviously)

ok now that i’ve got that out of my system for the moment, the costumes are actually pretty good. i’m a little obsessed with hongjoong’s coat although I know it’s stupid. fur? always, I love it, you’ll never change my mind it makes everything better. i own a lot of it and i wear it all the time. this is also a pretty good example of how to do a more modern styling within a very specific and recognizable genre.

i don’t hate the backup dancers’ costumes either, even though they would look a lot better in a not-pirate themed hiphop stage. because there is already a modern tint with the boys’ costumes, it’s not that much of a leap to the dancers, and they actually use the dancers and the camera really strategically to not put much focus on them.

the only real standout issue is the blacklight/contortionist moment, which is too gimmicky for me and doesn’t fit the rest of the theme. i do understand the purpose of them: you need a transition point from the upper deck to the more fantastical inner ship area, and blacklight paint is a really easy, cheap, and fast way to get four new costumes instantly. do i think they could have done something better though? yes.

set

this was actually a smart reuse of that pirate ship set. i know i clowned on them in the first stage that they could move on from the pirate gimmick but honestly? i’m glad they didn’t. this was fun as fuck. but also two stages was enough you can move on now.

i love how they actually used the weird double stage function that the false prosc creates for an actual architectural and narrative effect, instead of just sort of operating as though it’s just another place to travel just because you can. we are on the deck of the ship, and then we go inside the ship. it’s simple and effective. you don’t need to do a crazy amount of crossover to establish a dynamic sense of place.

i hate the ateez kingdom logo. i hate the ateez logo in general. get it out of there, at least you could have made something more fun and pirate themed.

would have loved to have seen them return to the hourglass at the end, especially if they got one that was specifically set for 4 minutes. would have been a nice bit of symmetry but i suspect it was struck before the kraken bit.

the kraken bit??? i was not at all expecting that and honestly? dope as hell. that big tentacle is just a custom inflatable santa claus that you see around christmastime and what a brilliant use of such a simple mechanic, especially to have it come through that weird little triangle arch they have upstage. smart way to use the existing architecture.

yes it is a gimmick but here’s why it works rather than just looks tacky like every other gimmick we’ve seen so far: it had a function within the narrative. this is so important. show us there’s a reason it’s there!

lighting

i didn’t love it but they did actually make some smart choices. the outer deck is warmer toned and has some good atmospheric effects, and the inner deck is cold tone and specifically lit with pin lights to imitate the light coming through portholes in an actual ship, which is so smart thank you lighting designer

also a very clear arc with the lighting, blue -> orange -> blue/red -> orange/multiple -> blue

sound

i actually kinda liked this remix? it fit theme and had a very clear dramatic arc. also i like wonderland, so sue me.

staging

WE DID IT, WE FINALLY GOT A CLEAR NARRATIVE FROM AT LEAST ONE GROUP! wonderland was actually a great choice for them because it’s a really good indicator of exactly how hungry they are. i was a bit worried that it would fall flat because it kinda rides on mingi but they actually pulled it off. i have literally no idea where they pulled all that energy from but holy shit you can practically lick the attitude off the screen. i’m also very impressed by the amount of information they managed to fit into that four minute narrative. we had a full conflict/climax/resolution, as well as a really clear understanding of the tenacity and drive of the group, as well as the desire to support one another in achieving their goals. bravo.

ok so like i said in the set section, they used that pirate ship bridge really effectively to create two different but connected spaces. this is a really smart way to make it seem like you have two spaces while having to only build one set. it was also one of the best ways to utilize this dumbass stage so it doesn’t just look like you’re running arbitrarily from area to area because you can.

also levels! levels are so important for staging but also hard to do in this context because you have to be able to move really quickly in and out of full group formation, but I think they did a really good job here.

continued point: the kraken arm worked because it was the conflict they needed to overcome in the narrative, so it had a function within the performance. also related: all the tricking and jumping also served a purpose within the narrative too. it was either used for fighting (yeosang kicking all those dancers on beat) or a demonstration of teamwork (jongho flinging yunho around on the floor). also frankly excellent use of choreographic formation with the backup dancers, each formation had a specific function and was meant to highlight ateez without being overbearing.

not a whole lot of camera choreo, but a fairly good long take at the beginning and the editing wasn’t too obnoxious which I think was more chance than intent, but i’m not gonna look a gift kraken in the beak.

sf9

i actually really liked this stage, and i really like that sf9 has established their colour as effortlessly elegant, which does set them apart from the rest of the groups. this stage was really choreographically complex and they made it seem so easy, so real props to them. however, like with ikon’s stage, there were a lot of good ideas that just weren’t followed through enough for me.

like ateez, song choice and theme were very well intertwined with this one, there was a lot of thought put into this stage. the pun with ‘jealous’ and ‘jilleosseo’ and having a fairytale/magic mirror narrative? fuckin GALAXY BRAINED. incredible. the implication that not only taeyang but the entire group is the evil queen from snow white? chef’s kiss. should have committed harder and put one of them in massive cloak à la king taemin mama 2020. instead it was subtle enough to not try to step on ateez’s schlocky camp toes but still just as serious and i love that. do i wish they pushed it farther though? also yes.

costume

not gonna lie, i had my reservations on the costumes when we saw the previews of them in the waiting room, but the thing about stage costumes is that they always look bad when not on stage. if they look good in the waiting room you’ve done something wrong. and i loved them on stage. big fan of that quilted vest/pseudo stomacher. please can we have a corset trend? y’all already adopted bondage harnesses, c’mon a little corset won’t hurt. also a good example of a modern spin on a recognizable genre.

i wish the backup dancers weren’t in all black but i am fighting single person battle against the entire entertainment industry on that one.

set

extremely simple with a few smart utilizations. had a feeling this might have been a budget thing, as it had a similar kind of vibe with ikon’s stage, but the use of the mirrors was smart and a fun device that served the purpose of the narrative.

working with mirrors on stage is really fucking hard, so kudos to them for giving it a go. for the most part it was pretty effective. especially with the combo of moving mirrors and moving lights AND moving camera, you’re kind of asking to either blind your audience or at least give them a headache. i once saw a production of the magic flute that had a rotating mirror setpiece and i swear i nearly went blind due to the constantly flashing reflections. you have to really be careful with directionality and reflection, especially with the added element of a camera. also you never use real glass mirrors on stage, it is unbelievably bad luck and theatre people are the most superstitious demographic on the fucking planet.

i kinda loved the draped gold dais. i have nothing else to say about it other than fun!

lighting

a lot of this was very weirdly lit and i’m not sure why. the quality on youtube is terrible and cameras already have trouble picking up detail in low light, and throwing a whole bunch of primary red over that (the colour with the longest wavelength and therefore disappears the easiest in the dark. also human eyes are not very good at distinguishing variations in the red spectrum) and the red costumes made it extremely difficult to tell what was happening.

i will give them props for dramatic lighting usage, especially for the two way mirror trick and for using the floor as a primary lighting source at the end, which i think groups should be using more of. how often do you have a lighting source in your floor!!! almost never!! use that opportunity!!

sound

i actually enjoyed this remix too. it was well suited to the dramatic nature of the stage. i think the sound byte at the beginning is ‘mirror mirror on the wall who’s the worthiest of them all’ but it also could be ‘who’s the worst of them all’ and that would be also fitting and kinda funny.

staging

again, not a lot of consideration for camera choreo in a meaningful way, and like the tbz stage I think the clarity in the actual choreo got hampered by the editing. because there was a lot of choreographic precision that went into making this work and it wasn’t totally obvious from the way mnet edited it.

a lot of them are actors so it works that they’re leaning more towards dramatic stages rather than the sort of performance type stages we’ve seen so far. i like this choice for them as it gives them a very obvious colour but they’re almost on the verge of making it look too easy, which does them some injustice.

next to ateez, using that long uninterrupted traverse was my favourite use of this stage. doubles as an easy way to build the atmosphere of a palace corridor/throne room with the rug, and to feed the drama of the piece.

skz

ok i have some…..things to say about this stage. so far i have not been kind to skz which makes me look like i hate them and i don’t, i promise. there were a lot of really interesting things happening in this stage and there some really successful ones, and i liked this a whole lot better than their intro stage, but their overall choreo and thematic dedication is really killing me. i’ll explain.

costume

I don’t hate them but also…….why? I got the good self vs evil self/internal struggle theme but the costumes don’t really have anything interesting to say about that. as far as modern style costuming goes i think they’re on the more interesting end, but they don’t push it far enough. there’s a few western art history visual motifs and honestly? they should have gone whole hog and whited out their faces/hair and made them look like classical sculptures. that would have been hella fun, especially with that little statue and marionette sequence, plus the shadow/leash manipulation.

this time it was actually intentional that the backup dancers were in blacks and i appreciate that.

why on EARTH did they have that ridiculous makeup that didn’t read on stage? theatre makeup and tv makeup are different, you can’t just do a light purple eyeshadow and expect to read under blue and red light. someone needs to bring an actual theatre makeup artist in and get these boys in some real crazy looks. see previous point about full-face white pancake. more extreme makeup please and thank you!

set

i liked the use of internal architecture within this massive weird stage space and they used the corridors quite well. i didn’t really like the mix of baroque scrolling and also graffiti, it wasn’t quite connected for me. this has been a common theme among this round and i think it comes from budget/props pulls rather than anything else.

also there was a distinct feeling of trying to fill the main stage space with bodies as opposed to atmosphere. this can work in some specific cases but the intent wasn’t strong enough for me. it just felt like a lot of people on stage, especially in the end choreo.

lighting

the general lighting was fine but not particularly inspired. the low light in the beginning was actually quite well done, especially combined with the fog, but in my opinion was not dramatic enough. you have a pseudo art history theme happening, pump that contrast and push the chiaroscuro!

ok stay with me, i’m gonna say something extremely controversial that might actually get me cancelled. s*per j*unior’s burn the floor did everything this stage was trying to do on a smaller scale and better. look i know ok, this is a like, a double atom bomb hot take. just forget everything you know about them and watch the performance video. tell me that’s not some of the most interesting choreo you’ve seen in kpop. if you’re going to work with practical light you need to COMMIT. not just steal the solar lanterns out of my mom’s back garden.

i have a lot of opinions on using practical light and alternate light sources in performance because it’s a huge part of my practice and this just....wasn’t interesting enough for me. push it further!

(I will wait for the subs on the full episode because there has to be a reason they chose that specific shape of lamp. if not i gotta ask jyp why he’s raiding my mom’s garden)

sound

god’s menu has such specific imagery associated within the lyrics and choreography that this stage was a bit dissonant for me. especially when seen in conjunction with two stages where the narrative was tied explicitly to the lyrics of the songs. i think maybe if it hadn’t been grouped with these other two stages i would have felt differently. the other groups chose to do songs were a little more abstract and allowed for more visual experimentation, but to go so blatantly against the food metaphor didn’t really work for me and i had a tough time divorcing the association. I found the arrangement to be a little lacking in energy for me towards the end but otherwise it was pretty interesting.

staging

Definitely a better performance overall that the intro stage. almost all of the gimmicks this time had relevance to the theme which i appreciated. the marionette bit and the shadow/mirror were probably the most interesting but i wish they were better lit.

 there was a lot of back and forth in the blocking that made the stage feel repetitive and also aimless? like there wasn’t a very clearly established directionality within the internal space, so it felt like treading over the same ground for no purposeful reason. and again, not a lot of intentional camerawork.

i really liked having the dancers under the big sheet, it fit well enough within the ‘war between internal selves’ theme, but also had a loose tie to the art imagery. again, i really wish they had stuck to a clearer visual theme. it makes them stick out especially in this grouping of stages, but also across all the groups as whole because almost everyone had a clear(ish) visual idea.

holy shit that’s a lot of backup dancers. i don’t really feel like that many were necessary and the sheer number of them took away from the emphasis of the group. with all of the other stages (except for tbz) it was very clear who the centre of attention and emphasis was, and with both skz and tbz they got swallowed by the sheer scale they were trying to operate at. bigger is not always better.

---

this is a tough round to rank because none of these stages are bad, there’s just some that are, in my opinion, more successful than others. all of these stages do very well in specific elements but fall short in others which also makes this ranking difficult. i’m evaluating these based on whether they were successful to me, as i’m pretty sure this ranking will probably not all be popular opinion, but whatever i like to live on the edge.

btob – visuals, vocals, narrative, swords? what more do you want me to say? also i watched the full episode and minhyuk did rehearsal with a real bokken and i think i am in love with him now.

ateez – honestly not sure if i would have ranked this first if that high note hadn’t been a mess. i love camp nonsense and i genuinely think this was a well designed stage. i can’t believe i keep saying that but it’s true.

sf9 – this stage was really solid, just could have been pushed farther. i think it has a really good sense of drama and it’s a pity that sf9’s colour is more subdued, because i think they’re going to be stuck around the 3rd/4th position for the rest of the show.

ikon – ikon is only ranking this high because although i am disappointed in the wasted potential of this stage, they NAILED the camerawork and actually brought in someone to block the steadicam into the choreo. also they’re incredible performers. i say this every time, but their stage presence, although maybe lower energy that they normally would be, is still not to be fucked with.

skz – i think this one is the most ‘meh’ for me. while i liked a lot of the elements here they just didn’t push it far enough and the lack of narrative and general aimless choreo led to me not having any strong feelings yea or nay.

tbz – to be quite honest the lack of costume unity is a big hit for me. all elements of design are equally as important but because of my personal practice and experience i tend to put a lot of weight on good costume and spatial design. i don’t actually like game of thrones also, so I feel mildly offended on behalf of michele clapton, who had did a fucking incredible job and doesn’t deserve to be slandered like this. also the lack of cohesive choreography and the overblown lighting made this difficult to watch, no matter how good i thought the rear projection/stretch fabric dance was.

 any questions or opinions you wanna share hit me up! see you next week!

[snkpolls]

SnK Episode 65 Poll Results (for Manga Readers)

The poll closed with 318 responses. Thank you to everyone who participated!

Please note that these are the results for the Manga Readers’ poll. If you wish to see the results for the Anime Only Watchers’ poll, click here.

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RATE THE EPISODE 309 Responses

Overall the episode was a hit with viewers, with the majority ranking it a 4 or higher. Over half of all respondents rating it a solid 5. The hype is real!

I thought this was a great episode. A lot of hype moments and the CGI worked for me, for the most part. Looking forward to the next episode!

All around exceeded my expectations if mappa keeps this up this will go down as the best anime in history

Chef's KISS!!! 10/10 episode, i was extremely hyped the entire time. 

It was amazing and I hope MAPPA keeps up with the same quality for future episodes

Amazing episode really hype

I thought the voice acting was amazing! :)

Great episode, not perfect but neither was WIT. No adaptation is perfect. This was fantastic.

It was pretty good just maybe good have been done better but I’m just happy it was done at all.

I’ve lowered my expectations to rock bottom at this point

An enjoyable time.

I think it was great! I was very excited and left me wanting more tbh

It was a very good episode!! I'm so happy to see the survey corps again!

WHICH OF THE FOLLOWING MOMENTS WAS YOUR FAVORITE? 310 Responses

Mikasa’s reintroduction to the series takes the largest piece of the pie, with 31.6% enjoying the scene the most. In second comes the coordinated attack from the Survey Corps against Porco, with 14.8% feeling that scene really brings the hype. At 10.3%, Levi’s first appearance in the season takes 3rd place, and with 9.7% is the overall fight between Eren and the War Hammer Titan.

Ackermans ran this episode as they should. They're on a whole different level. 

Why isn't the Sasha-Gabi moment in the list of favourite moments? That's my actually favourite moment. Gabi seeing Sasha through the fire and smoke, Sasha's reflection in her eyes...chilling.

THE CGI CONTINUES TO BE A POINT OF CONTENTION. BE HONEST, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE EXECUTION OF CGI SO FAR THIS SEASON? 309 Responses

In general, the fandom appears to be understanding of MAPPA’s usage of CGI, with 38.2% being completely unbothered by it, 20.1% feeling that while it’s not ideal, it could be much worse, and 18.8% not particularly caring for it but not faulting MAPPA for it either. A handful of people just wish that there would be more appreciation that it’s getting animated at all, while others continue to be a bit salty about the usage of CGI this season.

Did people forgot the god-awful Colossal titan's CGI from WIT? Well, I didn't so I wasn't surprised by the same level of CGI in Eren's scene (thankfully just one of them). I rarely have issue with CGI in SnK except for truly awful looking ones so like couple of times in the season, usually. 

I honestly wouldn't even know there's CGI if everyone wasn't complaining about it. I honest to god can't see where they use it.

It's mostly fine

I thought the war hammer titan looked AMAZING, the only CGI that looked odd was the scouts in the background, but that’s really it...?

A few sore spots (e.g. Erens titan looked kinda off this ep), but it's not season-ruining yet. 

CGI Titans >>>>>>>> CGI Survey Corps

It works fine for titans that already look somewhat mechanical (Armor, Jaw), but it looks incredibly awkward for the others, to the point of taking me out of the story. 

Sometimes great sometimes shit

Maybe I've been spoiled by studio orange and the previous seasons, but I know for a fact that they can do better. This is not a new anime, this is the final season of one of the greatest anime of all time, so yeah I expected much better CGI, it was poor and unecessary.

i think it’s gr8/unnoticeable,,,,,like we all put up with the colossal titan in s1-3 lmao

Some Titans like Eren and Beast look a little weird but I just really like how they made effort to make it blend with the art style. Maybe if they had found a way to cut the animation down to 12fps it might not look so bad? Anyways I think it’s good for what it is, MAPPA is doing their best!

I barely noticed it. The animation looks BOMB. Top 5 episodes of the whole series for me and BEST action episode of AOT easily.

I'm always going to prefer 2D but I understand why they're using it. Still sad about what could've been if they were given enough time to work on the season. Definitely going to lower my expectations.

My dumbass wouldn't even notice, I just want to see the pretty people

I think the CGI for the Titans is completely fine. It's the CGI for the Scouts that was a bit off putting for me. Still, not enough to ruin the episode. And if we continue to get animation of this standard I will be fine with it. 

At this point after episode 7 onward eventually AOT CGI is going to be worst than EX-arm's CGI 

I love it because it makes the titans scarier and more eerie? I also miss the 2D ones because they feel more natural. Overall, I think it's fine!

I think the CGi is well executed (for the most part), I just don't like that they had to use it so much.

It's a great job. They manage to execute it very well and go to a normal animation when it's needed. It doesn't bother me tbh

HOW WAS EREN’S ROOFTOP SWAN DIVE? 309 Responses

Eren’s dive in the anime was a bit different than in the manga, but it seemed to get a few laughs out of the fandom, so we asked you all to rank it. 58.3% felt it was the most beautiful dive to have ever dived, while only 5.5% think Eren really needs to work on his form. He did his best.

WHICH RETURNING CHARACTER’S ENTRANCE WAS YOUR FAVORITE IN THIS EPISODE? 310 Responses

Mikasa stole the show this episode, with 53.5% enjoying her entrance the most. Levi wasn’t too far behind though, with 29% of respondents hyped over his return. 11.6% were very happy to see Sasha again, while smaller chunks were glad to see Jean and Connie.

They massacred my Jean-boy’s entrance 🥲

WHICH RETURNING CHARACTER HAS THE BEST MAPPA-STYLE GLOW UP? 304 Responses

We got a more colorful and evened out pie for this question. Overall the largest chunk, at 24.3%, are enjoying MAPPA’s take on Eren’s iconic “hobo chic” look. 21.1% think Sasha looks the best out of all of them, while Mikasa trails just behind her at 20.1%. 16.1% are grateful for Connie’s design, leaving 9.5% favoring Jean, and smaller handfuls appreciating MAPPA’s take on Levi and Floch.

Chubby Floch

Here I am watching the trailer all over again because that's probably the only way to see Jean animated handsome and with his actual manga face. MAPPA what happened?

Levi has a thicc ass

I’m a big fan of all the time skip character designs, it was hard to pick just one favourite :) 

Jean looked stupid... Floch too but that's not important.

OG characters designs feels a bit off to me. I understand why they use CG for some parts and I have mixed emotions about it. I hope they won't rely on it too much on the upcoming episodes.

#ITSTIMEMIKASA WAS TRENDING ON TWITTER BEFORE THE EPISODE AIRED. ON A SCALE OF 1-5, HOW MUCH DID IT LIVE UP TO THE HYPE? 304 Responses

One of the most anticipated scenes of the Marley arc was the return of the Survey Corps and the way Mikasa paves the path for their reintroduction. The fandom appears to be very happy with MAPPA’s execution of the scene, with 60.9% of respondents rating it with a 5, with 27% rating it a 4. 

EEEEEEEEEEK MIKASA

Mikasa! Mikasa! Gosh love her!

im so glad mikasa is back owfejgrnrkdfs

MAPPA INCLUDED FILLER AT THE BEGINNING OF THE EPISODE OF WILLY HESITANTLY DEPARTING FROM HIS TEARFUL FAMILY. WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE ADDITION? 310 Responses

The series isn’t known for having too much filler, but typically what filler does exist seems to be appreciated by the fandom, and this was no exception. 56.8% of respondents were happy for a little more fleshing out of Willy’s character (also learning that those kids were his!) and being able to sympathize more with him. 19.7% appreciated the more sympathetic addition until they remembered he was willing to throw Liberio under the bus for his plan. 13.5% are appreciative of any and all additional Willy content. A small amount didn’t like the filler and would rather have had MAPPA put their effort into other things. 

I liked it. Got to see more of his fine ass. lmao

Don't add extra 2d animation if You can't even handle what's in the manga

It would've been better to show before he was dead. Fleshing him out after the audience already know he's dead doesn't hit as much imo

Wasn't one of the scene itself, but then again I'm always interested in scenes I haven't seen yet.

I am so grateful, willy for is one of my favourites and omg we got to see his family and how is he a lovely papa 😭💕 I can't ask for more bless you MAPPA🤘

fuck them kids

Why should we feel bad for him? He tried to unite the world against Paradis. He got what he deserved.

this was a benefit. as manga readers, we had time to know willy. anime onlies will only ever have these 2-3 episodes and it was very humanizing

How is that possible that Tybur little kids in few seconds were louder nad more chaotic than THE WHOLE CITY DURING THE ATTACK??

It's very regrettable he left so many children fatherless because of what he chose to do. Really saddening..

I’d have rather seen more of the manga animated 

I knew why they added it, but I (personally) think willy is crud. Not mad it's there tho!

He did his duty as a Tybur to the very end. Honestly I wish he could have lived longer, he’s a really compelling and interesting character.

I feel like some viewers have carelessly misunderstood Willy because of that scene in the carriage. They're like 'wow, he really hates and shames his own people huh?' but at the beginning of the episode we all saw his abundance of children. Would it not have been extremely contradictory if he had truly wanted the extinction of all Eldians and then at the same time did the complete opposite by mass-reproducing a small army of Eldian children? Maybe that's why that scene was added to the start of the episode, to keep people away from mischaracterising him. Unfortunately, this may have simply been missed or overlooked by some. 

they should had polish the damn episode instead of fillers.

Loved it! Mappa is killing it with the episode additions 

Reading the manga, I truly didn't even consider the possibility that these were Willy's children because he is so obviously a ~*bachelor*~. Like, it didn't even cross my mind that those children weren't his little nieces and nephews because he is suuuuch a Theater Gay. Nothing can change my mind.

Wait a minute, are these the kids in that ending slide from season 3?

IN THE ORIGINAL CHAPTER 101, MAGATH IS THE ONE WHO ADVOCATES FOR KILLING EREN INSTEAD OF EATING HIM (IN CONTRAST TO HIS SUBORDINATE KOSLOW) AND NOTES THAT “THE AGE OF TITANS IS OVER.” IN THE ADAPTATION, MAGATH INSTEAD ADVOCATES FOR EATING EREN, NOTING THAT KILLING HIM WOULD ONLY PROLONG THE PROBLEM. HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE CHANGE? 305 Responses

A minor dialogue change didn’t seem to have much of an effect on nearly half of respondents, with 47.5% saying they’re indifferent to the change. 43.3% like the change much better, feeling that it works a lot better with future story developments and makes more sense. A handful didn’t care for the change and felt it tampered with Magath’s overall characterization. 

I think the change was logical and more consistent with the story, but I'm naturally skeptical of any AOT manga-to-anime change.

I forgot this.

It ovewrites the flaw of Magath's original plan. Even if I think its unfitting of him, it makes sense.

I'm not sure what I feel about it. Kinda like how they added Falco having a dream back in episode 1. For now, let's just see.

I suppose the new change is a little contradictory because Magath dislikes Marley’s reliance on Titan power and rather just wishes th ey had prowess in other ways. 

Realistically eating him makes more sense for them to eat Eren so they gain control of the Founder but I think Magath accepting the age of Titans is now done for is more in character.

It obviously makes more sense logistically, but I think it's important for Magath to stand opposed to Marley national policy on this front, like, symbolically.

BETWEEN UDO AND ZOFIA, WHO WOULD YOU HAVE LIKED TO SURVIVE TO RECEIVE MORE STORY IN THE MANGA? 304 Responses

Though they are minor characters, the anime seems to have made some of the fandom a bit more fond of them. Still, 38.5% wouldn’t change anything about their fates, stating that they were necessary for Gabi to develop further as a character. 28% would rather neither of them died and are curious about how they would have developed if they lived to see another day. 23.7% say if they had to pick only one of them, it would be Udo due to his relevant commentary. A handful leaned toward Zofia, wishing they could have learned more about her. 

Udo. But at the same time Isayama can barely handle all the characters that are still alive so Udo probably wouldn't get a lot of screen time anyway.

Zofia. I didn't care about her while reading the manga, but in the anime she was more unique. I liked her stoic voice a lot. Zofia and Gabi should have switch the places. 

None cus i don't like Gabi

Both or neither. One would be just a third wheel to Gabi and Falco. I would love to see more of Udo and Zofia but I think their deaths were important

Udo and zofia's deaths hurt so bad. I didn't particularly care for either of them when reading the manga but i grown attracted to them in the anime. Udo's in particular breaks me. He was such a energic kid and he... got trampled to death. I'm just...

Neither. Both were serving an enemy nation and deserved what they got.

They weren't important to me so I don't really care

OPINION ON HOW THE ATTACK ON LIBERIO WAS PORTRAYED? 306 Responses

47.1% of respondents didn’t want to pick sides, stating that the attack was tragic in both mediums of the story-telling. 25.8% felt that it was much more devastating in animated form alongside the sound, music and voice acting. 18.3% felt a bigger impact while reading the manga. 

Both versions are devastating, but Manga hit harder bc I just was so confused and couldn't stop trying to figure out wtf Eren was doing and why. Watching it knowing what I know made it somehow more devastating and yet also more palatable (bc I have a better understanding.)

It was more devastating in the manga. Especially Udo's death scene 

I think I have to wait until the battle is over. So far it's alright.

Loved it

It gave me more emotions in the manga. 

They got what they deserved

It was far more devastating in trailer 🙄

WE FINALLY HAVE A NAME FOR LADY TYBUR - LARA! THOUGHTS? 307 Responses

One of the few characters left with no name after the large guidebook released a few years ago, Lady Tybur was all we could call her (aside from fan-given names). Now she has an official name! 26.7% found it neat that we finally got this official detail. 25.4% feel that now they can finally sleep at night. 17.6% are forever grateful for the name drop and hated waiting so long for it. 15.3% don’t care at all and 11.7% feel this confirms that Isayama is a fan of Tomb Raider.

Not what I was expecting and wasn't expecting her to get a name. At least people can stop calling her Emma or those other dumbass meme names.

Cool. Next up: names for the Blouse kids, right? Right right?

I'm not kidding when I say I literally jumped up and screeched "SHE HAS A NAME!!!"

she didn't need it. she was the mysterious lady t. 

Lara was more lucky than Traute, who got more panels in the manga but her name was mentioned only in the guidebook. 

Still died

WHICH SCENE FROM THE PREVIEW ARE YOU MOST LOOKING FORWARD TO? 306 Responses

Of all the shots in the preview, 45.1% of respondents were most looking forward to Levi’s staged attack on Zeke. 17% favored seeing Mikasa assist Eren, 15% were most looking forward to seeing Falco emerge from the basement to see the carnage outside. 10.1% were stoked to see Pieck enter the battlefield. The episode has aired as of the publishing of these poll results - we hope these scenes lived up to the hype (even though we guessed one wrong lol).

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS ON THE EPISODE?

I enjoyed the episode very much. I felt that the CGI was handled fairly well given the time restraints. However, there were a few instances where it was a bit jarring like Eren eating Willy, Eren pulling the WHT's cord, Mikasa landing on Eren, and Jean climbing up on the roof. Also some of the CGI models looked a bit weird for the scouts. I'm hoping some of these issues can be improved on in the Blue-ray version. Overall, these issues were noticeable but didn't take too much away from my enjoyment of the episode.

As much as I don't like the CGI, episode was great.

Just that it was fantastic and I can't wait for the next one!

The music is top notch. I love it. Especially the new version of XL TT near the end

After re-visiting the trailer we got for this season, it's just....saddening. Everyone was wondering how Mappa was gonna animate AoT and after seeing that trailer, all that effort by the animators, I thought "it's in good hands!". Now that we're getting the episodes and it's underwhelming. I don't blame the Mappa animators at all and cgi is unavoidable at some moments. But whoever are the higher ups who said "animate this in the shortest amount of time" ARE the assholes. It's so upsetting for this anime and the workers of it to be brought down like this :'(

Continuing to enjoy the pictures on the page come to life in the anime.

It was pretty amazing, I was waiting for so long to see this part animated! Aaand I'm so happy I got to see again the scouts! (expecially Connie, my personal fav)

Erwin should had lived instead of Armin, so Erwin can nuke Marley dropping from a blimp

I really liked it! I don't understand all the critics about the animation. It looks really neat and smooth

the SC backlit in that final scene was sickkkkk

It was different from the manga, but all the differences just improved the storytelling and fleshed out the people in Marley. Well done, MAPPA!

aaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

I’m just grateful Mappa actually gives a shit about adapting the story properly. That alone makes this season a 9/10 for me cause that’s rare to see in the anime industry these days.

THE OST WAS FIRE

Gabi's voice acting was amazing this episode ! Also, it feels good to hear the ODM gear sound effect again. The CGI didn't keep me from enjoying the fight, we got awesome camera movements and good choreography, I'm very hopeful for next episode ! Also best boy Onyankopon might appear soon ?

I seriously do not know why people are complaining. It was amazing! Can't wait for the next episodes, it's going to be action-packed and intense!

I don't know if I liked the episode or not. I usually prefer manga so even episodes I like I prefer their manga versions but there is something in off with the episode and usually, Titans fight are more excited but this one Nah it was not at all. War hammer was great in animation it served a better understanding of its powers but the fight, in general, was like boring?? idk maybe because I am a manga reader so the titan power/character's introduction was not as thrilling as they were when I've read the chapters. anyways, there is still more of the attack on liberio in the next episode so I'll give my final thought when we conclude the arc

I really enjoyed and the CGI doesn't bother me.

I think the reason Attack Titan looks a bit off is it looks a bit thinner! Warhammer looks amazing because it's a true copy of the manga. If Attack Titan was a bit buff, I think nobody would have that much of a problem. Overall the chapter is amazing!

as much as i adored everything else i must admit... what is wrong with the character design? what happened to everyone's jaws?? i think jean, mikasa and pieck were the worst drawn. in the manga, they look flawless. 

I just hope we would get actual discussions in the sub instead of circle jerking or bitching about the cgi/ost etc.

The soundtrack was epic as hell

Mappa is doing a good job, with the little time they had. But sadly, they had the capacity to do way better and I will always regret this situation. And the Jojo memes on Mikasa are on point: in that specific panel, she looks ugly and unlike her cute face in the manga. For the rest of the episode, she's well portrayed

I think this episode is a taste of what is to come. It’s one thing to read still, silent pictures of complete devastation, and it’s another thing to hear the explosions, the screaming and crying. Seeing the blood painted red instead of black and white. When Eren rumbles the world, more people will realize how evil it is, how completely irredeemable. Less people will be #teameren once they get to see it in the anime. I can’t wait to see what MAPPA has in store.

So many nice details in the battle that weren’t there in the manga, the war hammer animation was particularly great

I feel bad complaining, but this was the first episode of the season that has disappointed me at all. Every other episode I feel has elevated the manga. I don't want (and never expected) to be that person, but the CGI, especially on the humans (WHY??) was so awkward it was distracting. We also lost a little bit of expressiveness from Eren, which is kind of a big deal when there's so little from him to begin with. 

Soundtrack was lit!!!!

It is what it is. But after I finished the episode I went back to watch the trailer and got sad that the season just isn't going to look like that. It's not bad by any means and I understand that these are people, not robots working on this with an extremely tight schedule. This entitled fanbase is super embarrassing with it's behavior and harassment of the people working on it. I kind of hope the final arc doesn't get animated now because these people don't deserve it. 

Awesome! I was a bit distracted how the pacing was, cutting a bit weirdly from one episode to another, but I really enjoyed it!

That closeup of Eren's Titan after he nom'd Willy is NUTS. 

It was emotionless and almost boring. The sound director keeps fucking up big time. I didnt feel anything close to the hype I felt watching the Armored/Colossal reveal animated. There were no exciting goosebumps, or tears. Nothing. Also the CGI was terrible. There were good things, but I expected much more for suck a climatic episode

It was a good episode after all, graphic was ok but i think that if they continued with the same titan 2d animation of first episodes and maybe changed a bit some sound it would have been waaay better. Still a good episode imho

The episode was very average. I'm not trying to complain, I know that the anime is mostly for anime-onlines, while we have a manga, but I expected better. I imagined the titan fight to be smooth, but in reality both - WHT and AT - moved like two, fat elephants. In the manga I felt that WHT was fast like a wind. In the anime Lara was slow, she looked like she had a hard time to even hold her hammer. The moment between Eren and Mikasa was disappointing. In the anime when Mikasa was upset about Eren's actions, he was completely unfeeling, while in the manga we see him being full of emotions and almost crying. I know he will turn into a cold bastard but MAPPA shouldn't dehumanize Eren so much now. I was surprised by Connie's glow up. MAPPA has done better job with him. In the manga he still looks like a kid, while MAPPA made him more mature-looking and masculine. That's good for underrated Connie. I'm grateful for the scene between Willy and his children. This way he feels more sympathetic and isn't ""just a guy who declared a war and was eaten by Eren"". 

I really like how the warriors and Marleyans seem to be getting a somewhat equal amount of screen time as the scouts have gotten after they've come into the picture. I hope this helps to make clear for the anime-onlies that understanding the experiences, emotions and the development of the other side is just as important as understanding those of the scouts/Paradis.

WHERE DO YOU PRIMARILY DISCUSS THE SERIES? 279 Responses

Thank you again to everyone who participated!

[shoyodon]

𝟓𝟎𝟎 𝐅𝐨𝐥𝐥𝐨𝐰𝐞𝐫 𝐂𝐞𝐥𝐞𝐛𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧!

Hi! oh my gosh It feels like my blog grew really fast? I’m really grateful to every one of you and I’m so glad that I get to do what I love while also making you guys happy! My 500 follower celebration may not be the most exciting or original but I wanted to do something different for the occasion! Im putting my WIPS on pause and opening up prompt requests! 

Send an ask with a number w/ 2 characters max and I’ll write a short fic or HC (depending on prompt) about it!  Both HAIKYUU! and BNHA characters are available!

*depending on amount of requests, I will cap the amount of requests I take on, sorry 🥺

Requests closed!!

The prompt requests will be open until tomorrow at 6pm CST so send them in! below is the prompt list, all credit for this list goes to @marauder-exe​ !

Angst

“I love you ! Is that what you wanted to hear ?”

“I love him/her, and I know that I shouldn’t.”

“Can you just shut your mouth ?”

“wHY DO YOU KEEP LYING TO ME ?”

“We both know that I should walk away, but I can’t.”

“Wait, he/she has a girlfriend/boyfriend ?"

“I lo—-” “No, please… Don’t say that. You love her/him, not me.”

"Could you just take this pain away ? It hurts, so much… Help me.”

“You’re safe here, I got you.”

“Don’t ask her out again, please… You’re killing me, every single time you ask that.”

“Look, he/she wants you, just make him/her happy.”

“If you go, I’ll know that you never loved me.”

“We never were just friends, and you know it.” “I know it, but you deserve someone better than me.”

“SHE WAS CRYING BECAUSE OF YOU!!!”

“You love me like I’m the person who actually deserves your love.” “But you are the only one who deserves it.”

“I know for a fact that you’re not “fine”.”

“You’re looking at me like.. you’re disgusted. What did I do? Just tell me what I did, please!”

“What happened between us?”

“Nothing has changed!” “Yes it has, and you know it.”

“Love isn’t supposed to hurt this badly.”

“You said you needed space. You were 5,000 miles away for a year, and you’re still unsure. I’m starting to think that an entire universe apart wouldn’t be enough space for you.”

“I remember when he/she/they used to look at me that way”

“I want you to list every lie you ever told me. Then I’ll forgive you.”

“I don’t hate you. I hate that after all of this, you’re still trying to lie to me”

“I can’t keep this secret for you anymore.”

“I’m sorry I’m not what you signed up for.”

“Why she/her/them? It could have been anybody, and you chose to betray me with her/him/them.”

“This will be the last time you lie to me.”

“You never loved me, did you?”

“You made me miserable and I still loved you.”

“Everytime something goes well, I momentarily forget how much I despise you.”

“We’re never going to have a happy ending, just remember that.”

“Don’t pretend like you’re not happy to see me like this.”

“Your mind must be a horrible place.”

“Hand me the gun and I’ll kill him myself.”

“And I thought you loved me."

" And I thought I loved you."

" Aren't you even going to cry?"

“I didn’t expect you to wait forever. I just hoped…”

“Did you always know that you were going to leave?”

“If you cry, I’ll stay, and if I stay that will just give you another reason to hate me.”

“I’m addicted and at this point I don’t think anything could make me stop.”

”If you wanna know, then ask.”

“You never asked because you knew I wouldn’t tell you what you wanted to hear.”

“We grew apart, and at this point I’m glad.”

“Find somebody else to kiss your ass.”

“When are you going to stop clawing for something that’s never going to happen?”

“What you’re doing is going to kill you one day.”

“It was easier to believe that the you I knew was dead than deal with the fact that I still have to see you every day.”

“What you’re doing is going to kill you one day.”

Fluff

51. “You’re hair is really soft after you wash it.”

52. “Ssh. Stop fussing. I’m just braiding your hair.”

53. “You smell really nice.”

54. “Would it be all right if I borrowed your sweater? It smells like you.”

55. “I might have slept with your robe when you were gone.”

56. “If you steal the blankets, I am going to put my cold feet on you.”

57. “Here, let’s share the blanket.”

58. “You’re comfy.”

59.“You are very endearing when you are half-asleep.”

60.“But I want to hear you sing.”

61.“Don’t get up - I’ll do it.”

62.“Care to give me a back scratch?”

63.“I think I love you.”

64.“Your bed head is really cute.”

65.“How about a kiss?”

66.“You made this for me?”

67.Aw, you’re blushing.”

68. Uh oh, I know that look. What do you want?”

69. “Let me help you with that.”

70. “I don’t want to forget this moment.”

71.“Are you really flirting with me right now?”

72.“I like the way your hand fits in mine.”

73.“You have something in your hair, umm… Do you want me to get it out?”

74.“It’s nice that your voice was the first thing I heard today.”

75.“This movie is really scary, but you’re into it so I’m trying not to cover my face the whole time, but- WHAT IS THAT?”

76.“Wait, don’t pull away… Not yet.”

77.“Half the time I get too embarrassed to say anything”

78.“No, it’s fine.  I can wait until you’re done talking to them.”

79.“No, like…. It’s just, I can’t believe you’re actually wearing my clothes.”

80.“You’re a big piece of inspiration for this, honestly.”

81.“I’ve been trying to get ready for like an hour and a half, because I know you’re going to look so good and I need to try and match up.”

82.“I wanted to say “I love you” for the first time without stuttering, but that failed.”

83.“My friends get so annoyed by how much I talk about how sometimes.”

84.“No, mom, don’t tell him/her I said that about him/her!”

85.“I can’t get over how a few months ago I wanted to learn your name and now you’re having breakfast with me in my sweater.”

86.“ You are so beautiful — So fucking beautiful. “

87.“And just WHERE do you think you’re putting your hands?”

88.“Wow, you look even better in the daylight.”

89.“I don’t remember ever having this many hickeys. But I don’t mind.”

90.“We could order pizza and just stay like this all day.”

91.“It was always you.”

92.I love you in every possible way.”

93.“I didn’t mean to love you so much.”

94.“Don’t you hurt a single hair on his/her/their head.”

95.“Duck, you idiot!”

96.“Hey. Pal. I’ve got a wand and I’m not afraid to use it.”

97.“Shh, you’re safe. I won’t let you go.”

98.“It’s not a double date. We’re just third and fourth wheeling.”

99.“Look, I know we don’t know each other that well, but I’m still worried about you. No one deserves to be alone.”

100.“I remember practicing how to ask you out in the mirror..”

Sarcasm

101.“Define normal.”

102.“Do I get bonus points if I act like I care?”

103.“Just remember if we get caught, you’re deaf and I don’t speak English.”

104.“Don’t look for any redeeming qualities. I don’t have any.”

105.“It’s amazing how fast the world can go from bad to total shit storm.”

106.“I love you. You enormously stubborn pain in the ass.”

107.“And you wonder why you’re still single.”

108.“Remind me to kill you. Please.”

109.“That’s a little melodramatic, don’t you think?”

110.“She’s crazy. And just when you think you’ve reached the bottom of her craziness, there’s a crazy underground garage.”

111.“She may seem like lollipops and rainbows but I bet behind close doors she’s latex and whips.”

112.“If my day gets any worse, I’m asking hell if they’re having an exchange program.”

113.“Sorry. I don’t speak skank.”

114.“My middle finger salutes you.”

115.“I don’t have enough middle fingers to let you know how I feel.”

116.Somebody’s cranky.” “Somebody needs to shut up.”

117.“Oh darling. Go buy a brain.”

118.“Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn.”

119.“All due respect, but that’s a bunch of crap.”

120.“I am one of the few people in the world who can murder you and leave no forensic evidence behind.”

121.“Excuse me. I have to go make a scene.”

122.“What did I tell you about calling her/him the devil?” “That it’s offensive to the devil?”

123.“I heard that!” “You were supposed to!”

124.“I need therapy after this.”

125.“You didn’t get in trouble for lying. You got in trouble for lying badly.”

126.“I turned out liking you a lot more that I originally planned.”

127.“I think you’re weird.” “I think you’re boring.”

128.“I’m afraid I’ve been thinking…” “A dangerous pastime.”

129.“Wow, there’s a big surprise. I think I’m going to have a heart attack and die from surprise.”

130.“I’m gonna hit you so hard, it’ll make you ancestors dizzy.”

131.“Sarcasm is the body’s natural reaction to stupidity.”

132.“Well, excuse me, psychic wonder!”

133.“Don’t look in her eyes, she might steal your soul.”

134.“She’s hot, but she’s evil.”

135.“Do I regret it? Yes. Would I do it again? Probably.”

136.“I already know that I’m going to hell. At this point it’s really go big or go home.”

137.“I’m not a damsel in distress. I’m a damsel doing damage.”

138.“So stick that in your juice box and suck it.”

139.“Never take life seriously. No one ever comes out alive anyway.”

140.“Sometimes I question my sanity. Occasionally it replies.”

141.“Why should we date?” “Because we are attracted to each other.” “I am attracted to pie, but I do not feel the need to date pie.”

142.“Neither one us is drunk enough for this conversation.”

143.“You’re questioning my methods.” “I’m not questioning it, I’m saying it’s stupid.”

144.“Wow, somebody needs a Happy Meal.”

145.“I didn’t do it!” “Then why are you laughing?” “Because whoever did it is a freaking genius.”

146.“Idiots. I’m surrounded by idiots.”

147.“You couldn’t handle me even if I came with instructions.

148.“Obviously you have mistaken me for somebody who gives a shit.”

149.“Rule number one: don’t bother sucking up. I already hate you, that’s not going to change.”

150.“You make no sense to me.” “Welcome to my life.”

Drama

151.“Can you stop thinking about yourself for once?”

152.“Can you stop thinking about yourself for once?”

153.“Don’t think I forgot about what you did last time.”

154.“I know you lied to me.”

155.“I’m not even sorry.”

156.“You backstabber!” 157.“I never want to see you again.” 158.“You never mattered to me.”

159.“I knew this was a bad idea.”

160.“Rot in hell.”

161.“It was supposed to be a secret!”

162.“No one loves me.” 163.“He/she/they is/are so petty…” 164.“You made me cry.” 165.“I don’t know who you are anymore.” 166.“How DARE you?!” 167.“I know you’re not talking to me…” 168.“I SAW you with him/her/them!”

169.“Just leave me alone.”

170.“What did you do?!” 171.“I told everyone that I didn’t want to talk but I’m actually dying for attention.”

172. “Just admit that was extra…”

173.“I forgive, but I don’t forget.” 174.“Did you see what he/she/they was/were wearing?” 175.“So what if I had sex with your ex?” 176.“There’s something I have to tell you…” 177.“I can’t do this anymore.” 178.“You weren’t there for me when I needed you the most.” 179.“I never loved you.” 180.“It’s too late.”

181.“Quit ignoring me.”

182. “Don’t you get it? It’s because I love you!”

183.“I love you. I’m sorry.”

184.“I don’t want to be friends.”

185.“Can we please pretend I never said that?”

186.“Friendzoned again.”

187.“You should’ve loved me when you had the chance.”

188.“Fuck you for toying with my emotions like that.”

189.“I was there for you when no one else was!”

190.“Alright – I can tell a ‘no’ when I hear it.”

191.“I’m sorry I acted so creepy.”

192.“Fuck. It’s like what they say – nice guys finish last…”

193.“I’m tired of keeping this secret. Even if you don’t love me back.”

194. “I knew that’d be your answer. That’s why I never told you before.”

195.“When I said I loved you, I meant it.”

196.“Is there any part of you, deep down, that might love me back?”

197.“You were the one that left all those notes for me?”

198.“You’re in a relationship with another person – you know this can’t end well.”

199.“We agreed this was just physical!”

200.“I love you. I know you don’t love me, so don’t say it back.”

[barnesandrogersfanfics]

Saving Grace - Part 8

Summary: Steve leaves you and your son to go back to Peggy unaware your pregnant.

Your heartbroken and struggling without Steve until Bucky Barnes steps up to help you out. With you and Bucky growing closer everyday will he be your saving Grace?

"Steve....."

"Hey sweetheart" he said smiling at me and all i could think was...."That fucker is actually smiling at me as if i should be happy to see him!!!".

"You girls okay out there?" I heard Bucky call through teasingly, unaware of what fresh hell we were about to face.

"Is that Buck?....." Steve asked trying to look around me into the house.

"No Buck everything is not okay out here...." i called back shaking my head.

"Ain't you gonna invite me in? Or give me a hug a least?"

"Are you out of your fucking mind???!" i said quietly so Harrison wouldn't hear me "why would i ever do that???"

"I thought you'd be happy to see me..."

"Hey doll, whats wrong?" Bucky came marching through from the kitchen but stopped when he saw his old best friend stood in front of me "What the fuck....."

"Hey Buck"

"You have got some fucking nerve showing up here Steve" Bucky said stepping in front of me at the door.

"I just wanted to see my family..."

"The family you left you mean?"

"I made a mistake...."

Before i even realised what happened Bucky lunged towards Steve punching him in the face, it took Steve by surprise so much that he fell back on his ass.

"I would've done that sooner but i couldn't hit an old man"

"Okay.... i deserved that" Steve nodded getting to his feet brushing himself down "Y/N.... please can we talk?"

"I've got nothing to say to you Steve"

"What about Harrison? I wanna see my son"

"Tough shit! You need to leave, you shouldn't have come here Steve..... haven't you hurt us enough"

"Baby I'm so sorry, please..." he reached for me but i shoved him back as hard as possible.

"Don't!....don't you touch me. And don't call me baby!" I said through gritted teeth as i poked his chest "you should go before Wanda gets here, trust me when i say Bucky went easy on you compared to what she'll do"

"Too late" Bucky chuckled seeing Wanda pull into the driveway.

"Oh shit..." i heard Steve mumble under his breath as the red haired woman practically flew out of the car.

"What are you doing here!!!!.... you have got some nerve Steve Rogers!"

"Wanda i just wanted my family back"

"YOUR FAMILY!??..... you mean the family you abandoned for some piece of ass you liked a 100 years ago?!!!"

"I know. I know i fucked up...."

A flash of red suddenly hit Steve in the chest sending him sprawled across the lawn.

"Wanda.... Wanda stop" i said stepping up and taking her hand "his not worth it, go inside and see the kids"

"Your not wanted here" she said to Steve looking at him in disgust before disappearing inside.

"Just go Steve" i said shaking my head as i turned to go inside.

"She said kids....what did she mean by that?...."

"Nothing that concerns you"

"Peter told me you were pregnant" Steve said quickly making me turn to face him again "is it mine?"

"No she's not"

"She's mine" Bucky stepped up pulling me into his side to hold me close.

"What?? Are you telling me you two are together???" Steve asked sounding winded by the blow he received from Wanda.

"Yeah we are"

"How could you?! His my best friend!!....Bucky you went after my girl?"

"I cant even deal with you Steve...... you have no right what so ever to get pissed at us!! YOU LEFT US!!!" I yelled.

"Mama?" I heard Harrison say from behind suddenly, followed by Wanda who was holding Grace "Sweetie come back inside please" Wanda said to him but he was stood staring at Steve.

"Wow.... his got so big.... hey pal" Steve smiled at his son who was clutching his dinosaur teddy close "Why don't you come give your dad a hug huh?"

"No!" Harrison said before rushing to Bucky who scooped him up in his arms.

"Its okay buddy, lets go inside" Bucky rubbed his back gently. Steve looked heart broken at the rejection of his son but it was no one else's fault but his own.

"Go home Steve" Bucky said before leading us all back inside.

I was pacing the kitchen feeling the rage coursing through my body, Wanda was sat with the kids in the living room while Bucky stood looking out the kitchen window with his arms crossed over his chest.

"Is he still out there?"

"Yep, just leaning against his car" Bucky grumbled "i just wanna go out there and smash his face in!"

"I know but its not worth it Buck" i said walking over to him, i pulled at his arms making him unfold them so i could wrap myself around him, his arms automatically pulling me against him.

"You okay doll?" He asked pressing a kiss to the top of my head.

"Not at all.... but being in your arms helps" i sighed "Opening that door and seeing him looking like that.... was like a punch to the face"

"I bet, i can't believe he had the nerve to show up here unannounced expecting you to be happy to see him.... always was a punk" he said as his hand stroked up and down my back.

"Somethings never change huh?"

"Well, somethings do.... how does he even look like him again anyway?"

"If i had to guess? The Quantum Realm...."

"But how? I thought they used that for time travel"

"Yeah but when they were first trying to work out how to travel back in time, before Tony showed up and saved the day, Bruce got it wrong.... ended up pushing time through Scott instead of Scott through time. Its all really complicated trust me.... long story short he turned Scott into various different ages"

"Wow...."

"Thats the only thing that makes sense to me"

"But why now...Why has he only done this now?"

"Because Peggy died?.... his all alone again.... maybe he wants to see how different his life would be with us now his experienced his dream life with her!"

"Maybe" he nodded suddenly looking more concerned than angry.

"What is it Buck?"

"Its just.... Steve's back now and i..."

I looked up at Bucky and smiled, reaching up on my tiptoes i kissed him.

"I love you Bucky, him coming back doesn't change anything with us"

"You sure doll?.... what about Harrison and Grace?"

"You saw Harrison's reaction to seeing Steve, he run to you Buck. And Grace is yours remember" i shrugged "i wont let Steve tear this family apart"

"Me either".

After sharing a deep and passionate kiss i reluctantly pulled myself out of Bucky's arms to go check on the kids and Wanda while Bucky called Sam to get him to come get Steve. Harrison was sat next to Wanda on the sofa watching his cartoons while Grace was sleeping in her arms.

"Hey Wan, thanks for watching them" i smiled at my friend sitting down in the armchair next to her.

"Its not a problem, how are you doing sweetheart?"

"Okay considering" i scoffed "why couldn't he just stay away? Does he enjoy messing with my head?"

"I don't think Steve even knows what he wants" she said sadly.

"Thats the problem really isn't it, its always what Steve wants. He wanted to be with her....so he left us. Now He wants us so he turns up expecting a warm welcome???.... I'm so angry Wanda. I think I'm more angry now then when he left us"

"Thats understandable"

"Things are so good with Bucky at the moment as well.... i can see his worried that I'm gonna go running back to Steve now his back" i said wiping a tear from my face "id never do that, i really do love him Wan. I thought i loved Steve but what i feel for Bucky.... god its so much more.... and thats even before the sex"

Wanda chuckled "i honestly love the two of you together. Your relationship is stronger on an emotional level, but im guessing your looking forward to the physical stuff huh?"

"Wanda!" I laughed gasping in shock.

"What? Have you forgotten what you told me that day at the BBQ....not only did you tell me but i got a look inside that dirty mind of yours Y/N....and let me just say, wow!"

"Believe me i haven't forgotten!" I threw my head back with a moan "Its so much worse now!"

"Oh really?"

"So much worse!" I laughed looking over at her "I'm so glad your good with the kids because as soon as I've recovered from giving birth, you are babysitting so i can have some alone time with that man of mine"

"Just say the word and I'm there!" She smiled.

"What are you ladies gossiping about now?" Bucky came walking into he living room and perched on the arm of my chair.

"Nothing...."

"Oh really?" He raised his eyebrows teasingly making me blush.

"You heard all of that didn't you?"

"You bet your ass i did, i didn't mean to its just I've got good hearing"

"Hmm okay"

"I want to hear more about what happened at the BBQ though"

"I'll tell you later"

"You better!" he smirked before reaching down to kiss me.

"Fine. So is Sam on his way?"

"Yep he wont be long"

"Good, i want him gone. Its weird that his just standing there, I'm not letting him in so I'm not sure what his doing".

"Probably hoping you'll feel bad for him and let him in" Wanda said rolling her eyes.

"Not gonna happen!" I scoffed, why would i feel sorry for him.... he made his bed now he had to deal with consequences.

Tagging: @jennmurawski13 @kenzieam

@captainchrisstan @s-t-r-i-k-e-us

@lets--be-honest @ms-betsy-fangirl

@damnaged-princess @farfromtommy

@disneylovingal @lbuck121

@billweasleey @rynabarnesrogers

@heathens-takeitsl0w @lacontroller1991

@supervengerslock @barnesandrogersworld

@mariswritingforfun @perpetually-tuned-out

[that-weird-fandom-girl]

Prompt List And Who I Will Write For

When requesting a oneshot you can but are not required to choose a prompt off this list (which is one of @marauder-exe‘s prompt lists that im using because i physically cant produce prompts lol) and just tell me what character you want it with (i will list characters and ships that i write for at the end)

Send requests here

Angst 

1. “I love you ! Is that what you wanted to hear ?”

2. “I love him/her, and I know that I shouldn’t.”

3. “Can you just shut your mouth ?” 

4. “wHY DO YOU KEEP LYING TO ME ?” 

5.“We both know that I should walk away, but I can’t.” 

6. “Wait, he/she has a girlfriend/boyfriend ?“

7. “I lo—-” “No, please… Don’t say that. You love her/him, not me.”

8.  "Could you just take this pain away ? It hurts, so much… Help me.”

9. “You’re safe here, I got you.”

10. “Don’t ask her out again, please… You’re killing me, every single time you ask that.” 

11. “Look, he/she wants you, just make him/her happy.”

12. “If you go, I’ll know that you never loved me.” 

13. “We never were just friends, and you know it.” “I know it, but you deserve someone better than me.”

14. “SHE WAS CRYING BECAUSE OF YOU!!!” 

15. “You love me like I’m the person who actually deserves your love.” “But you are the only one who deserves it.”

16. “I know for a fact that you’re not “fine”.” 

17. “You’re looking at me like.. you’re disgusted. What did I do? Just tell me what I did, please!” 

18. “What happened between us?” 

19. “Nothing has changed!” “Yes it has, and you know it.”

20. “Love isn’t supposed to hurt this badly.”

21. “You said you needed space. You were 5,000 miles away for a year, and you’re still unsure. I’m starting to think that an entire universe apart wouldn’t be enough space for you.” 

22.“I remember when he/she/they used to look at me that way” 

23. “I want you to list every lie you ever told me. Then I’ll forgive you.”

24. “I don’t hate you. I hate that after all of this, you’re still trying to lie to me”

25. “I can’t keep this secret for you anymore.”

26.. “I’m sorry I’m not what you signed up for.” 

27.“Why she/her/them? It could have been anybody, and you chose to betray me with her/him/them.” 

28. “This will be the last time you lie to me.” 

29.“You never loved me, did you?” 

30. “You made me miserable and I still loved you.” 

31. “Everytime something goes well, I momentarily forget how much I despise you.”

32. “We’re never going to have a happy ending, just remember that.” 

33. “Don’t pretend like you’re not happy to see me like this.” 

34. “Your mind must be a horrible place.” 

35. “Hand me the gun and I’ll kill him myself.” 

36. “And I thought you loved me.” “ And I thought I loved you.” 

37. “ Aren’t you even going to cry?”

38. “I didn’t expect you to wait forever. I just hoped…”

39. “Did you always know that you were going to leave?” 

40.“If you cry, I’ll stay, and if I stay that will just give you another reason to hate me.”

41. “I’m addicted and at this point I don’t think anything could make me stop.” 

42. ”If you wanna know, then ask.” 

43.“You never asked because you knew I wouldn’t tell you what you wanted to hear.” 

44. “We grew apart, and at this point I’m glad.”

45. “Find somebody else to kiss your ass.”

46. “When are you going to stop clawing for something that’s never going to happen?” 

47. “What you’re doing is going to kill you one day.” 

48. “It was easier to believe that the you I knew was dead than deal with the fact that I still have to see you every day.” 

49. “What you’re doing is going to kill you one day.” 

50. “Why do you have tO BE SUCH A HYPOCRITE ALL THE TIME” (this is my prompt bc the numbers were being weird)

Fluff

 51. “You’re hair is really soft after you wash it.” 

52. “Ssh. Stop fussing. I’m just braiding your hair.” 

53. “You smell really nice.” 54. “Would it be all right if I borrowed your sweater? It smells like you.” 

55. “I might have slept with your robe when you were gone.” 

56. “If you steal the blankets, I am going to put my cold feet on you.” 

57. “Here, let’s share the blanket.”

 58. “You’re comfy.” 

59.“You are very endearing when you are half-asleep.” 

60.“But I want to hear you sing.” 

61.“Don’t get up - I’ll do it.”

 62.“Care to give me a back scratch?”

 63.“I think I love you.”

 64.“Your bed head is really cute.”

 65.“How about a kiss?” 

66.“You made this for me?”

 67.Aw, you’re blushing.” 

68. Uh oh, I know that look. What do you want?” 

69. “Let me help you with that.” 

70. “I don’t want to forget this moment.” 

71.“Are you really flirting with me right now?” 

72.“I like the way your hand fits in mine.”

 73.“You have something in your hair, umm… Do you want me to get it out?” 

74.“It’s nice that your voice was the first thing I heard today.” 

75.“This movie is really scary, but you’re into it so I’m trying not to cover my face the whole time, but- WHAT IS THAT?” 

76.“Wait, don’t pull away… Not yet.” 

77.“Half the time I get too embarrassed to say anything” 

78.“No, it’s fine.  I can wait until you’re done talking to them.” 

79.“No, like…. It’s just, I can’t believe you’re actually wearing my clothes.” 

80.“You’re a big piece of inspiration for this, honestly.”

 81.“I’ve been trying to get ready for like an hour and a half, because I know you’re going to look so good and I need to try and match up.”

 82.“I wanted to say “I love you” for the first time without stuttering, but that failed.” 

83.“My friends get so annoyed by how much I talk about how sometimes.” 

84.“No, mom, don’t tell him/her I said that about him/her!” 

85.“I can’t get over how a few months ago I wanted to learn your name and now you’re having breakfast with me in my sweater.” 

86.“ You are so beautiful — So fucking beautiful. “

 87.“And just WHERE do you think you’re putting your hands?” 

88.“Wow, you look even better in the daylight.” 

89.“I don’t remember ever having this many hickeys. But I don’t mind.”

 90.“We could order pizza and just stay like this all day.”

 91.“It was always you.” 

92.I love you in every possible way.” 

93.“I didn’t mean to love you so much.”

 94.“Don’t you hurt a single hair on his/her/their head.” 

95.“Duck, you idiot!” 

96.“Hey. Pal. I’ve got a wand and I’m not afraid to use it.” 

97.“Shh, you’re safe. I won’t let you go.” 

98.“It’s not a double date. We’re just third and fourth wheeling.”

 99.“Look, I know we don’t know each other that well, but I’m still worried about you. No one deserves to be alone.”

 100.“I remember practicing how to ask you out in the mirror..” 

Sarcasm 

 101.“Define normal.” 

 102.“Do I get bonus points if I act like I care?”

 103.“Just remember if we get caught, you’re deaf and I don’t speak English.”

 104.“Don’t look for any redeeming qualities. I don’t have any.” 

 105.“It’s amazing how fast the world can go from bad to total shit storm.” 

106.“I love you. You enormously stubborn pain in the ass.”

 107.“And you wonder why you’re still single.” 

108.“Remind me to kill you. Please.” 

 109.“That’s a little melodramatic, don’t you think?”

 110.“She’s crazy. And just when you think you’ve reached the bottom of her craziness, there’s a crazy underground garage.” 

 111.“She may seem like lollipops and rainbows but I bet behind close doors she’s latex and whips.” 

112.“If my day gets any worse, I’m asking hell if they’re having an exchange program.”

 113.“Sorry. I don’t speak skank.” 

 114.“My middle finger salutes you.”

115.“I don’t have enough middle fingers to let you know how I feel.”

 116.Somebody’s cranky.” “Somebody needs to shut up.” 

 117.“Oh darling. Go buy a brain.”

 118.“Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn.”

 119.“All due respect, but that’s a bunch of crap.”

 120.“I am one of the few people in the world who can murder you and leave no forensic evidence behind.” 

121.“Excuse me. I have to go make a scene.”

 122.“What did I tell you about calling her/him the devil?” “That it’s offensive to the devil?”

 123.“I heard that!” “You were supposed to!” 

124.“I need therapy after this.” 

 125.“You didn’t get in trouble for lying. You got in trouble for lying badly.” 

 126.“I turned out liking you a lot more that I originally planned.” 

 127.“I think you’re weird.” “I think you’re boring.” 

 128.“I’m afraid I’ve been thinking…” “A dangerous pastime.” 

129.“Wow, there’s a big surprise. I think I’m going to have a heart attack and die from surprise.” 

130.“I’m gonna hit you so hard, it’ll make you ancestors dizzy.” 

 131.“Sarcasm is the body’s natural reaction to stupidity.” 

 132.“Well, excuse me, psychic wonder!” 

 133.“Don’t look in her eyes, she might steal your soul.” 

 134.“She’s hot, but she’s evil.” 

 135.“Do I regret it? Yes. Would I do it again? Probably.”

 136.“I already know that I’m going to hell. At this point it’s really go big or go home.”

 137.“I’m not a damsel in distress. I’m a damsel doing damage.” 

 138.“So stick that in your juice box and suck it.

” 139.“Never take life seriously. No one ever comes out alive anyway.”

 140.“Sometimes I question my sanity. Occasionally it replies.” 

141.“Why should we date?” “Because we are attracted to each other.” “I am attracted to pie, but I do not feel the need to date pie.” 

 142.“Neither one us is drunk enough for this conversation.” 

 143.“You’re questioning my methods.” “I’m not questioning it, I’m saying it’s stupid.” 

 144.“Wow, somebody needs a Happy Meal.” 

 145.“I didn’t do it!” “Then why are you laughing?” “Because whoever did it is a freaking genius.” 

 146.“Idiots. I’m surrounded by idiots.”

 147.“You couldn’t handle me even if I came with instructions.

 148.“Obviously you have mistaken me for somebody who gives a shit.”

 149.“Rule number one: don’t bother sucking up. I already hate you, that’s not going to change.” 

 150.“You make no sense to me.” “Welcome to my life.” 

 Drama

 151.“Can you stop thinking about yourself for once?” 

152.“Can you stop thinking about yourself for once?” 

 153.“Don’t think I forgot about what you did last time.”

 154.“I know you lied to me.” 

155.“I’m not even sorry.” 

156.“You backstabber!” 

 157.“I never want to see you again.”

 158.“You never mattered to me.” 

159.“I knew this was a bad idea.” 

160.“Rot in hell.” 

161.“It was supposed to be a secret!” 1

62.“No one loves me.” 

 163.“He/she/they is/are so petty…” 

164.“You made me cry.” 

 165.“I don’t know who you are anymore.” 

166.“How DARE you?!”

 167.“I know you’re not talking to me…” 

168.“I SAW you with him/her/them!” 

169.“Just leave me alone.” 

170.“What did you do?!” 

171.“I told everyone that I didn’t want to talk but I’m actually dying for attention.”

 172. “Just admit that was extra…”

 173.“I forgive, but I don’t forget.” 

174.“Did you see what he/she/they was/were wearing?”

 175.“So what if I had sex with your ex?” 

176.“There’s something I have to tell you…” 

177.“I can’t do this anymore.” 

178.“You weren’t there for me when I needed you the most.” 

179.“I never loved you.” 

180.“It’s too late.” 

181.“Quit ignoring me.” 

182. “Don’t you get it? It’s because I love you!” 

183.“I love you. I’m sorry.”

 184.“I don’t want to be friends.” 

185.“Can we please pretend I never said that?” 

186.“Friendzoned again.”

187.“You should’ve loved me when you had the chance.” 

188.“Fuck you for toying with my emotions like that.” 

189.“I was there for you when no one else was!” 

190.“Alright – I can tell a ‘no’ when I hear it.” 

191.“I’m sorry I acted so creepy.” 

192.“Fuck. It’s like what they say – nice guys finish last…” 

193.“I’m tired of keeping this secret. Even if you don’t love me back.” 

194. “I knew that’d be your answer. That’s why I never told you before.” 

195.“When I said I loved you, I meant it.” 

196.“Is there any part of you, deep down, that might love me back?” 

197.“You were the one that left all those notes for me?” 

198.“You’re in a relationship with another person – you know this can’t end well.” 199.“We agreed this was just physical!”

 200.“I love you. I know you don’t love me, so don’t say it back.” 

Characters/people i write for 

Marvel

Steve rogers 

Clint Barton

Scott Lang

Tony Stark

Sam Wilson 

Thor Odinson 

Loki Laufeyson 

Bucky Barnes 

Peter Quill

Peter Parker

Pietro Maximoff

Bruce Banner 

Stucky (ship)

Criminal Minds

Spencer Reid

Derek Morgan

Aaron Hotchner 

Greys Anatomy 

Alex Karev

Mark Sloan 

Andrew Deluca 

Actors

Matthew Gray Gubler

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[comicteaparty]

November 9th-November 15th, 2019 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from November 9th, 2019 to November 15th, 2019.  The chat focused on the following question:

How do you deal with a lack of engagement from your audience, both emotionally and physically?

IzzyNinjaMaster

Oooo now that's a good question. If my online audience doesn't respond, I personally always show any new page updates to my family and friends and get feedback and comments from them. Really great for support. But sometimes their not available or I don't have anything new to show them. When this happens, I just look to myself for support. I know that doesn't really make sense or sounds kinda cheesy but it's what I do. I get myself pumped up and excited for what I can do next in the story and how awesome it will look all drawn out. And I go from there, I'll start drawing out ideas or writing out new chapters. So just be your own hype man, not just with your comics either but with everything. Great for self esteem.

Sorry went on kind of a rant right there

carcarchu

I prepare myself emotionally to not have any expectations. If you expect nothing and receive something you'll always be happy!

IzzyNinjaMaster

Lol true very true XD

Deo101

I'm not completely sure what this question means by physically, but I just kind of keep making art to move past it. Something that has helped me a TON is to make art that's just for me (like, that I don't post anywhere). I think that if everything is made to be shared, then we get a little too used to trying to find validation with engagement. With comics, specifically, I try to make none of my goals relate to engagement. I only have goals for myself and what i'm producing. If I'm hitting all of my goals, then I feel good about what I'm doing! No one engaging with it is just kind of like "okay!" Another smaller thing that helps me is getting my work done well before I upload it! for some reason just getting a bit of time distance between when something is done and when I post it I dont feel so bad if people don't engage.

Cronaj

I'm fairly lucky that I have a small following on one of the sites I post on, so while some weeks might be slow with feedback or engagement, I'm usually not completely devoid. I also have some very supportive family members who read my comic and often comment or text me after I update. As for what I do personally when I don't have a lot of engagement? I do a lot of self-reflecting, which is probably not the healthiest of practices. I question what I'm doing, trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong and how I could improve. I also try to understand other external factors at play, such as my readers' personal lives, jobs, school, holidays, that might have delayed them from engaging with my work. For example, I know that during November, as we get closer to Thanksgiving, there is going to be a huge drop in readership, because a lot of my younger readers will be preparing for school finals and visiting with family. By knowing this, it helps me cope a lot better. And if all else fails, I vent to my fiance or my little sister. It really does help to have someone to whine at for a bit

khkddn

If I were to get completely zero engagement on something I'd do what I'd always do, message people I know irl like "validate meeeeeeee"

In general I just take a step back from what I've posted and focus on something else. That way I remember webcomics isn't everything, and by the time I check up on things again there might be some sort of audience response.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I kept my work hidden for the first few years I was working on it (wanted to iron out any wrinkles before I was comfortable sharing) so in comparison, any engagement afterward - even a tiny amount - is pretty great! And even now, some updates get more traffic than others, for a lot of different reasons. Luck, timing, quality, etc. I always keep in mind that this project is - at its heart - for me and my own enjoyment/fulfillment. And if I’m pleased with where it’s going, that’s a win.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oof, that question really hit me where it hurts. Over the years I’ve lowered my expectations, because while I used to have an active audience in the ‘00s, I’ve rarely gotten any engagement on my comics in the ‘10s. It’s definitely made me feel depressed and like a ‘failure’ to put heart and soul into my comics and art and get 0 reaction online. I honestly don’t have any way I ‘deal’ with it. I make something, hoping to get some comments > I get no comments > I get depressed about it and feel like my work is garbage. Rinse and repeat several hundred times. I keep going because I just love to create, but it’s like an actor trying to put on a performance and no one shows up to the play. It has gotten better lately and I’ve started getting some engagement for the first time in many years, but I honestly don’t have a good answer for how I handle that emotional reaction to reader silence.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Also good to keep in mind that lots of people may read without commenting, and still enjoy it! I did a poll wondering who would be interested in doing guest art, and way more people responded than I expected. It opened my eyes! Sometimes you just can’t tell until you outright ask for feedback

keii4ii

There's definitely a risk to that, though. You ask and still get nothing. Or worse, you ask and get negativity. Asking is a worthy gamble, but it takes courage! Sometimes when we don't have enough courage, we gotta find it elsewhere first, before we can try that gamble...

I lost that gamble one too many times and need more Courage Fund before I can try again, lol

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

True true! It was a gamble I had no real expectations/assumptions about, so I didn’t have much room for disappointment. Even getting one person who says “This is cool!” is enough to fuel me for days. But I know that’s not how it is for everyone. Once you’ve been disappointed once, it can take a while to get the urge to try again. I can’t imagine getting negativity, though... I think THAT would wreck me.

keii4ii

Sometimes I don't even ask and someone just randomly drops negativity off at my doorstep... I need to remember that I have also had wonderfully positive responses, that it wasn't all negative. But it can be hard to remember that on bad days.

Deo101

Yeah, negative comments always seem to be the loudest ones... They can drown out dozens of good ones if they hit you right.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I did develop a pretty thick skin for negativity in art school, which was really fortunate because my comics garnered a lot of negative attention at first. Though thinking back on it, I was making very androgynous and gender non-conforming characters (even though I never stated anywhere that they were queer) in a time when the public attitude towards such things was far less kind than it is today. At the time it was draining to get so many trolls, but unless I was already having emotional difficulties in other areas of my life, I was able to let it roll off.(edited)

keii4ii

The weirdest thing with my negativity is 99% of them come from actual readers who mean well. So I have a hard time dismissing them like 'oh they're just haters.' It's not necessarily harder than dealing with blatant trolls, but it is an entirely different beast.

Deo101

Sometimes I go and reread positive comments when I'm down about things

Yeah I'm not sure that I've had any trolls tbh... Its all readers saying what they think

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Avid readers who give backhanded compliments and ‘well-meaning’ but very subjective critique can definitely be detrimental.

keii4ii

In Korea, I dunno if they're still a thing, but 1-2 decades ago there was this type of theft called slash theft. It's a type of pickpocketing, done on the street while walking by. They bump into you, briefly and lightly, but you don't think much of it because Seoul is a crowded city and you brush against other people all the time. But during that brief bump, they manage to slash open your purse and take all the contents. It's an amazing ninja level skill for sure. I know people who had their stuff stolen that way. Back to the Courage Fund analogy, sometimes a negative comment isn't just a normal theft of your Fund. The comment slashes your purse open, and now your bag can't contain Fund even if you put more and more into it.

It can take a long time and lots of support to sew your purse back.

Deo101

Idk if other places to slash theft, im sure they do, but im pretty sure historically its been a big thing. The term "cutpurse" comes to mind

keii4ii

(:o I didn't know that was a term! The more you know)

Deo101

(some book i read (wasn't great but you know) used the term a lot and i was like "ok wtf is this")

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

That’s a very good analogy for it, and I definitely understand what you mean. I had to take a three year hiatus from one of my comics once after a IRL ‘friend’ ripped the comic apart and called me a terrible writer in less-than-kind words. I had already been going through some very bad things with my health and family and it hurt me far more than it should. It took some encouragement from some very dedicated readers to convince me to pick up the comic again.

Deo101

(so i associate it with pirates now)

That's really terrible lee... Om glad you picked it back uo though!!!

keii4ii

I can super relate to harsh comments hurting way more than they should, when you're already in a bad state. >_<

Deo101

And also it is a really good analogy keiiii

Yeah things just kinda get harder to deal with in general when you're more tired/upset in other areas

keii4ii

The most devastating feedback I've got would have done far less damage if I weren't in a fragile state at the time.

Deo101

Like you can't go be safe elsewhere if everything is a source of stress...

keii4ii

(For all we know those slashers in Korea could be pirates )

Deo101

:o

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Does Korea have pirates? If so, I’m moving to Korea.

(Sorry, we’ve probably gone way off topic for the discussion)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I got antsy when someone made a small critique of my lettering (rightfully so, though - lettering is hard and I’m still learning) so a proper heart-stabbing, bad-faith critique might sideline me for a while. Gotta be prepared for that someday

Deo101

Its weird, it really seems to be mostly about how I'm doing elsewhere in life now that im thinking about it. Also being further along in the comic helps cause I've got years of support and "just keep chuggin" under my belt

Like the other day someone critiqued me randomly and called my characters stupid and i was like "dam ok, your comment getting deleted then" but a year or so ago a comment like "I'm sorry im a little confused..." Made me second guess everything for weeks

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Ohhh Maybe the obviously mean/troll comments are easier to deal with, than feeling you let down a reader who was genuinely trying to understand the story. I would definitely react similarly.

Deo101

Iunno, the big old critique was a normal reader who has left other comments he jusy kinda randomly did it. But yeah I think it can be easier to shrug off things that are CLEARLY antagonistic versus someone being harmlessly confused

Because confusion can mean I'm not being clear enough and need to change things and whatever. Its vague in a way that hits your anxiety

keii4ii

Yeah, when someone is obviously being a jerk, you know it's on them

omg... reader confusion has been the bane of my existence

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I dunno, man, art school just toughened me up to most negative comments. If one person out of five is confused, I don’t take it personally and just explain it to them to clear up confusion. If everyone’s confused I think ‘Hmm, maybe I should retcon in some dialogue to make it more clear’. I guess art school really teaches you to distance yourself from your work and be very objective about it. BUT as I said, I’m not immune when other bad things are going on and it becomes the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Deo101

Though THEN you kinda get like "why am I being a target???" And its very frustrating, at the very least, and it does definitely still hurt... (Wrt trolls)

keii4ii

It's hard to tell who's confused and who isn't sometimes

Deo101

Yeah Lee im in art school right now, but for me its different when I make something to be critiqued versus a passion long term project

If I am asking for critique too, im braced for it in a way I'm mentally prepared for. Im not always braced to have someone be like "its pretty good buuut..."

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Ahh, I can understand that. I guess I’m able to view my passion projects the same way I did my school projects. It took time, that’s for sure. It’s a process of desensitisation, and was something I had to build up over years.

keii4ii

I'm disproportionately sensitive about reader misinterpretations/confusion. I'm 95% sure it's because one bad experience. Someone thought my main story was garbage, but they liked parts of it, so they told me to basically make a different story using those parts. After that, every time a reader didn't recognize the main story (I got a very prominent B plot, so it's kinda understandable that some people mistake it as the A), I got vivid flashbacks of that one bad experience. Every time someone said they liked [this character that The Other Person liked], I got flashbacks. Took me good 2-3 years to get over it.

Deo101

Its also a lil different when it's like.. i wont be changing these pages so unless it's a critique for moving forward its kinda pointless and i cant really apply it

Damn keiiii that's really rough

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, that sucks.

keii4ii

Yeah, it's hard to be motivated when the underlying message is "your first 100 pages are hot garbage, but you can still improve........ even if readers will give up long before they get to the decent 101st page!"

Deo101

RIGHT...

I don't want to have to preface "check out my comic!" Wirh "i promise it gets better..."

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

COUGH That’s exactly why I’m reduxing Eryl’s hot garbage beginning right now COUGH

Also because I’m a masochist and perfectionist.....

keii4ii

I think "it gets better" is fine when it's a reader reccing it. (I remember some of my friends reccing multi-season anime series to each other, going, "it gets better after season 1") But yeah, as the author we can't be the ones saying it.

Deo101

Mhm.

And I'm still hapoy with my old pages. I know I could do them better now but they're perfectly fine and they get the job done so... Idk its just hard when someone is like "wow two years ago you made a mistake, :/"

Like. Yeah, duh... I've spent like a thousand hours on pages theres gonna be some mistakes

keii4ii

It took me a long time to realize that Flaws =/= Problems

Deo101

I'm learning and getting better youre gonna have to bare with me here

Nutty (Court of Roses)

are you kidding i still get crit on stuff i made TEN years ago

Deo101

Mhm

keii4ii

omg

Deo101

Well its not a competition

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Same, Nutty

Nutty (Court of Roses)

True sorry ;;

Deo101

Ur name just changed colors keiiii

You: flaws =/= problems Your name: im ascending

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think...learning how to like not be bothered by negativity that much is a skill. Super freaked out one time when someone said they didn't know what's going on when reading HotV whoops

(turned out they just had to re-read a bit and it was just webcomics being webcomics)

Deo101

I had a group of readers say they were co fused and one person asked me to explain the last 2 chapters and i was like "holy shit am i being this unclear????"

Its stressful for sure

Nothjng wrong with being concerned with ut

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Keiiii has reached a new plane of existence. The blue is unrefutable proof

Deo101

Its something you're passionate about and you want to be as good as it can be

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah...

Deo101

So any critique, regardless of validity will be something you WANT to consider

Which is fine and theres nothing wronf with taking things to heart like that

But also if youre Happy with it that's all that matters

You gotta be your #1 fan kinda thing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I'm personally super uh...yeah I am having a hard time dismissing criticism

even if it's in bad faith, haha.

keii4ii

The #1 fan thing sometimes reminds me of that scene from Lilo & Stitch

The scene of Lilo's rag doll. It's been years since I watched it, so memory's a bit fuzzy, but I think all the kids were showing off their dolls, and Lilo wanted to show off hers too

but the other kids didn't like her homemade-looking doll, and it made her sad, almost not like her doll for a moment

but she picks up the doll again afterward

There are days where I relate to that. I never not-love my story and my characters, but sometimes I feel like everyone else has a low opinion of it, you know?

and I'm like lonely Lilo hugging her rag doll in the sad corner

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah I totally get that and...loving what you do first and foremost is really important. I don't think in a medium like webcomics you would be able to keep going

keii4ii

I'll always love my Doll but I do wish this little corner weren't so lonely, kinda thing

Deo101

I feel that keiiii

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmm

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

When the ‘critique’ is detrimental it does become a problem. Like that ‘friend’ I was talking about earlier who bashed Eryl to bits. He told me to ‘read some Stephen King’ to learn how to write. I was making a high fantasy story, not a horror story. The writing of a horror author is simply not applicable to building a good fantasy adventure story. That’s when I knew he was full of shit. But the damage had been done, and I lost all motivation for the project for years.

keii4ii

uuugh, I'm so sorry that it happened to you D:

Deo101

Also this story is one that i have dropped and picked up SO many times, and its wildly changed over and over, and so i worry a lot im not making it in its final form, i suppose. I worry i started it too young, and so critique of the older parts hits that anxiety

Wow lee that's terrible...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Gosh...

Deo101

Also you can't really compare Novel writing to comics imo. The structure can be compared but...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think HotV is like a project I've worked on since...2008? And it changed with me and I feel pretty confident that it's in its final stage.

keii4ii

and not every story needs to be a Stephen King story

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

But yeah, you can really not compare writing for novels to writing for comics wth

nah

tbh it's weird (I like King personally) but his stories and also his writing do have flaws too so

what

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I actually do use novels as a source to study how to construct my comics. But! Studying the right genre is important. I’ve the feeling the only books that guy read were Stephen King, so that’s the only kind of story he was familiar with.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

God when I was still developing a picture I did got featured somewhere and someone criticised the way I did knees and linked to the picture of another artist going: Hey draw knees like that

Deo101

Every story will have flaws, its impossible to make one that is perfect. Well. Its impossible to make a story thats perfect for everyone. So alk you can do is try to make a story thats perfect for you!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Agreed, Deo

keii4ii

^ THAT REMINDS ME

Deo101

Omg

keii4ii

(going back to the original question) With no response, or negative response, one thing that helps me is hearing other people gush about their beloved unpopular stories!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmmm

Deo101

!!!!!! Me too!!!!!!!!!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I am having this problem and went to ask on twitter what ppl loved about their projects

and that's really uplifting somehow

Deo101

I LOVE reading other comics and just seeing how much passion is in them its like a light

keii4ii

I need to remember that just because someone, or even a lot of someones, thinks a story is trash, doesn't make it the universal truth

Deo101

^^^

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I WILL GUSH ALL DAY BOUT MY BELOVED UNPOPULAR STORIES and once you open that damn I am unstoppable. You will regret it, trust me.

keii4ii

And people gushing about their unpopular favorites is an excellent way of reminding myself

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hehe

Deo101

I have been very lucky and have had a few incredibly kind people who i can remember fondly when i worry my story isnt reaching people. I Know it has touched a few lives, and if it makes even ONE person happier (even if thay person is me) then im doing my job and its worth all the time and effort.

That was kind of off topic i swear it connected in mt mind

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Absolutely

I feel it's connected

Deo101

Phew

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

bc hmm it's a way to deal with times when there is not much engagement?

Deo101

Aha! There we go yes :)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I do generally write very off-beat, unpredictable stories because I like reading / watching those kinds of things. A lot of my favourite movies bombed at the box office because they weren’t formulaic, which was what I loved about them.(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Remind yourself that there is people who enjoy what you do and who are happier bc of it C:

Deo101

Mhm ^^

Also i have my characters on a shirt so i can just wear that and be like "fuck yeah. I have a shirt. It cant be a bad comic if I've got merch babeyyyy"

Which admittedly is a very odd way of dealing with anxiety

But like.... You should get your Characters on a shirt.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

dfhwioufheuf Deo that's cool tho

I made so many like...background designs and posters for HotV and some of those I WANT ON A SHIRT

Oh I think what also helps me is to find a friend and just talk about the comic?

Deo101

The place i use lets you get up to 6 items a month as a sample order and it's severely discounted my shirt was like $15

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I should do that. I have designed some T-shirts but that wasn’t for personal stuff.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

omg

keii4ii

I'm actually in the (long) process of re-learning how to talk about my comic

Deo101

And yeah for sure having people i csn talk with/joke with about my comic helps soooo much

Like the fact that i know these 5 people will get my jokes like this

THAT helps a TON

These people actually are the reason I was confident enough to be able to start after having a bad friend drive me to almost drop the story for good

So having their support is probably one of the biggest things thst helps if no one else engages.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Okay, so on the original subject of ‘How to deal with no feedback’ I do talk about my stories a lot with my two best friends. They are my biggest fans and my sounding boards. They let me go on and on about plot threads in my comics and it’s one of the main reasons I keep going. Even when I get 0 reaction online, I still have two people who I know are reading the comic and think I should keep going.

Deo101

Or like, when my family is being homophobic about my work kinda thing. Friends are good for that...

Yessss lee having people you can talk with about it is SO good

keii4ii

ngl, I'm jelly of those of you who have go-to support friends who are genuinely into your story! That's something I hope to have some day, myself

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t know whether to give a sad react for homophobic family or a happy react for supportive friends

Deo101

Happy react ^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Still sorry about your homophobic family tho, but your friends sound awesome

Deo101

Yeah but :> I know I'm doing good work. Again those few people who i know my story has touched.. i know I'm doin good work.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

@keii4ii Just know I’ve been an acid fan of your comics for over 10 years and honestly think they’re some of the best comics I’ve ever read

AVID

NOT ACID(edited)

keii4ii

Hey acid is important too

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

GOD MY PHONE

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hiodcnioefwe acid

love this

I have one friend who has supported me since 2007 and I can always count on her freaking out about my comics Y_Y

so when I feel especially bad I turn to her

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My phone is old and the keyboard lags and autocorrects like AAAAARGH(edited)

Deo101

Its okay same here lee

Typo club babeyyyy

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have to edit almost every comment I make THANKS A LOT PHONE

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

shakes fist at ur phone to be more kind

I can't type on phone at all so...

keii4ii

Yeah, swipe-typing is high level sorcery to me

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

As someone who’s normally a grammar freak it causes me great pain that my texting is a syntactical disaster.

Deo101

I've been doing swipe a bit lately so it doesn't hurt my hands to text (I Tex too much)

keii4ii

This actually makes me wonder

What are some good, safe(ish) ways to reach out to people who may be 1000% willing to become that Support Pillar for your comic?

Deo101

I just straight up start doing it

keii4ii

For all I know they exist. But.. Schrödinger's pillar

Deo101

And gague the reaction

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

As an antisocial gremlin who hides under a rock, I have no idea.

Pakky

never hurts to ask

keii4ii

@Pakky You would be surprised

Deo101

Start sharing art, see if theyre curious, get deeper if they're good with it, kinda thinf

I've got friends who like to see my art but don't really care about my comic, and you kinda just gotta take it case by case

Pakky

mm fair enough, i always try to be supportive of content creators mostly because i would hope for the same in return. theres a lot of bluntness in my industry so if you do well you get praise but if you do poorly, you very well know it :/

keii4ii

Me: "Thank you for supporting my humble comic!" (this wasn't even asking, just thanking) Reader: "Well, your comic isn't that good." Me: "?????????"

Deo101

Wh

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’ll be honest, on the rare occasion a reader starts trying to get really close to me, my dumb brain freaks out and I put some distance in because I have Issues for days.

Pakky

thats just rude on their part

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

what

holy fuck

keii4ii

I've Been Burned

omg, that question mark react is so appropriate

Deo101

I've chatted with some readers here or there but I don't know if id wanna use them as a support pillar

I kind of have trained myself to think readers as fickle.

If they get sick of my story, theyre allowed to leave

They dont owe me their time or energy and them being here is a gift

So I'll chat and stuff and answer questions but unless someone is my friend i will not lean on them for support.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Honestly it’s happened that I’ve gad readers try to get really close or be my sounding board, and I think they were just trying to be enthusiastic and supportive but my stupid broken brain always panics and goes WARNING STALKER ALERT WARNING ABORT ABORT.

Deo101

Hey better safe than sorry

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

juppp

Deo101

I'll chat but i wont give personal information and im not gonna like, get all into spoiling everything im planning lmao.

If someone asks me a question thats a spoiler ill answer it in private

But bringing raw ideas up for help... I need very specific people for thst.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

The thing is they weren’t even being creepy or trying to get really personal. They were just very friendly and I apparently can’t handle that. ><

Deo101

The friend group i get writing helo on are all writers, and they all understand my vision. They don't write stories like mine, i dont write stories like theirs, and we all fully understand our suggestions may go unfollowed.(edited)

Also whoever put the eye emoji yeah if u have a question straight up dm me and I'll answer.

keii4ii

It's okay, your comfort is important. If you want to be more open, you can work on that. But not everyone has the same comfort level and that's okay too

Deo101

Yes! Its all about what you're comfortable with

But I've personally got a small curated group of writers/artists who all circulate our work between eachother

Which i know is very rare.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Same, Deo...helped me a lot and I also know who to turn to when I'm down about engagement

Deo101

Mhm ^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(also they are all perceived better than me so I believe them if they say sth nice)

Deo101

Omg

That group of people have done SO much for me honestly. Im thinking about them. I love my friends.

Also dont worry its nit all about me they also talk about and we help their work too i wanna be sure thats clesr

keii4ii

I figured it was all mutual! but now that you've said it's not all about you I'm suddenly imagining The Cult of Deo

That is 10000000% wonderful though

Deo101

I walk in and I'm like "y'all check out this new millennium lore" and they all take their hoods off and start scouring it for plotholes

keii4ii

Whilst sitting in a circle (a magic circle to be exact)

Deo101

Of course of course

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Damn, that’s awesome! I only see my friends every few months so I dump a lot of plot on them all at once, and it’s harder for them to give really detailed critique. XD

Deo101

Oh, I do this all online

Irl I sit down with my sister and we talk for 4 hours and Lose our voices LMAO

Cronaj

Good convos literally ALWAYS happen while I'm at work

keii4ii

I'm still here

Cronaj

Good, because it made me sad when you said you didn't have a support pillar

And that readers are fickle (which can be true)

But I don't think you know how much I love your comic

keii4ii

I'm seriously honored! I still fear that maybe people are not seeing the story I'm trying to tell, and are following the comic for some other reasons (which is valid, just not what I'm trying to achieve). But hey, I'll never find out if I don't keep going, right?

kayotics

keiiii, i love your comic and i think it's beautiful in many ways, not just the art

but also, on the topic of lack of engagement... I'm pretty fortunate in that my spouse is always really supportive of my comic, so when I need a little pep talk I can always ask them

sssfrs

I’m trying to collect as much negative feedback as I can so that I’ll know my comics strengths and weaknesses and I’ll be prepared to take criticism as it comes in the future. It is pretty frustrating having no response or fanbase right now but I started my comic pretty recently and theres still time for growth

Glowbat (Aloe)

when you're collecting feedback be mindful that there's a difference between constructive criticism and people being unhelpful and simply telling you they don't like your work

the latter wont do anything but bruise your self confidence(edited)

keii4ii

Yeah, and sometimes even well-meaning critiques can miss the point too, like if it comes from someone who thinks your work should be X, when it is intended to be Y. Easy example: My previous comic was a depressing drama centering around a terminally ill young woman and her doctor, and once someone told me I "needed more fight scenes." It wasn't even an action comic! In that case, the lack of fight scenes was not a weakness. It simply meant the comic wasn't for that person.

DanitheCarutor

On the topic of lack of engagement. My answer is really boring, but I just keep working on my comic regardless of how much/little engagement it gets. I never intended or expected to have an audience to begin with since my comic has sooo many problematic elements in it, whenever I get feedback it's super nice! Always a surprise, like seeing the machine light up when winning $500 on the penny slots! (In a way, getting engagement is kinda like gambling. You post a page and you may or may not win some comments in return... Not equating real people to items to win, of course!) Admittedly, if there is a page I feel would cause reaction but I get nothing, it is a little sad. It's not the end of the world, though! I got a story to tell, and as long as I can still draw I'm content.

kayotics

i relate to that a lot, Dani. I also never intended to make the comic for anyone but me, so the fact that anyone reads it is really exciting to me.

Cronaj

@keii4ii (Potentially off-topic, but is there somewhere to read your other comic(s)? Or are they all in Korean?)

DanitheCarutor

@kayotics Every so often I look at my reader base and think "Man, there are people into this kind of stuff??" It's an almost surreal feeling.

kayotics

Yeah I get it! I wouldn’t say mines too out there but there’s so many other fantasy dnd inspired comics out there that they could read that I’m surprised they even glance at mine.

AntiBunny

How do I deal with it? Usually experience a series of emotions such as "how hard is it to leave one little comment you losers?" Then "Who am I kidding, no one is reading this, I'm creating into a void," and finally pry a few comments from people who know me personally, reassure myself that I create out of a compulsion to tell my stories even if no one's reading, and start the process all over for next week. Not exactly a healthy method I admit.

keii4ii

@kayotics There is only one Toivo out there

@Cronaj aaaa the previous one was in English. But I would not recommend it It's unfinished (though it does have more than 600 pages IIRC) and honestly really rough.

kayotics

@keii4ii true....... one weird wizard boy

Cronaj

Dang... I LOVE medical stories. I'm seriously addicted to them. @keii4ii

keii4ii

I enjoy them too and I appreciate your interest!

Cronaj

scours the internet for the lost records

keii4ii

The site layout is also broken so yeah...

I guess another thing I do is try to comment more on other people's comics, to rec them publicly, etc. Being the change I want. I don't do this as often as I want, but I think/hope even the little bit I do counts.

mathtans

Heh, I'm basically with Cap'n Lee in terms of a cycle. I think part of my issue is I won a fanfic competition in 2004, and it's kind of been downhill since. I've posted regularly to a serial site for over 4 years, accumulating 300 posts, and last month it had 100 total views... there's been 2 comments since March.

On the actual comic side though (not serial) I've relaunched it more than once, and tried to flag the more recent index as a starting point. And yeah, just hold on to the few good comments, like the guy who applauds me for continuing to post even though I only have 10 people following on Tapas.

These days, of course, I'm too darn BUSY to really think much about the lack of engagement. So one solution might be to get married and have a kid. Then you're just happy when you manage to get content out, never mind if anyone remarks on it.(edited)

Mharz

Popping here just to answer the question becos it's interesting. The lack of engagement was a bane in my existence and honestly one of the factors why I had to see a psychiatrist. My doctor told me I have self-esteem issues which leads me to seek validation from strangers. This is the first thing I work on. I have to be confident enough to not break even if nobody likes my stuffs. Which means I have to love myself first. (People prolly see me as vain at this point) Second thing I do is keep a mentality of "nobody has to care. They have things going on as well" which helps me appreciate the small percentage of people who actually took the time to engage, talk, and be friends with me. I also try to put a positive spin on it. "Nobody cares therefore I can make as much noise on my social media as I want and no one will bother criticizing becos nobody cares." If people unfollow, it's on them. It just means they're not really a fan of my work and I shouldn't waste my time. And if my mental illness is too much, then I will disconnect from the online world a bit. Treat myself. Do something fun like gaming and baking and hang out with friends IRL if possible.

Mharz

I sometimes think it's karma on my end becos I'm so vain, I rarely get interested in anything so I'm not really a fan of many stuffs so that is something I accepted as well.

AntiBunny

Perhaps being a webcomic author sort of goes hand in hand with needing validation.

MJ Massey

OH BOY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT A LACK OF ENGAGEMENT?!

over the past week, I got 24 users. Granted, I didn't update, so that's probably why

So this is a four month overview of my website traffic. I hit a high of 184 unique users in August, and after that it plummeted to just barely over 100. And I hadn't really done anything different

I have never really gained a lot of traction with my comics. I'll admit that Black Ball definitely has more appeal than my last comic, so I have slowly been building an audience with it, but it's still been very slow. Sometimes it feels like I have to adhere to some extra set of rules while others can just throw up their comic on Tapas and have instant success. Of course, that's not the case at all

the key is to remember "why am I doing this? isn't it because I love making comics?!"

and to keep on pushing, keep up that hustle, and enjoy the ride. Make great content and it will be rewarding in and of itself

carcarchu

I'm not really sure it's as simple as simply throwing something up on tapas and getting instant success. there's a lot of work that goes behind every comic even if you don't perceive it

MJ Massey

well yes of course, I'm just saying sometimes it SEEMS like that

I'm a marketing professional, so I know there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes

Glowbat (Aloe)

theres, i think, a lot of factors in certain comics gaining traction faster than others that are mostly out of a creator's control. on mirror sites like webtoons or tapas you have to factor that more attention is given to certain genres and art styles over other because of what that crowd likes. if they're into slice of life romances in anime-esque styles then someone who writes fantasy mysteries in a more western influenced style may not get as much love as they deserve

its tough out there

ive been fairly fortunate to gain a steady bit of followers on tapas but on webtoons my reader engagement and subs are significantly lower

Glowbat (Aloe)

i chalk it up to the type of crowd

MJ Massey

I've been analyzing my audience and my work and have a hypothesis that my work just works better in bulk format. I think 2020 will be a year of transitioning into bulk distro instead of the page at a time format

and see if that helps. As well as some new marketing techniques and getting back into the con circuit

Kabocha

A lack of engagement... This is definitely... a topic. I feel like, sure, one's general marketability in any given platform will definitely make it easier or harder to attract an audience, but on the other hand? It's also worth making sure you kinda figure out what you want out of webcomics. Some people have been working on their projects (or existing within a fandom) for years - decades, even at this point, which can be a big boost to initial readership on a new project! Other people just have the advantage of being able to sit down and advertise, or having someone do that for them. Personally, though. I went in not expecting to get an audience, and for a long time, actively avoided even having a comment section on my site. I just enjoy making comics and creating things - and if it happens to make someone happy, that's awesome. But comics and art aren't the only thing I do in my life that make me happy, and I've found engaging other people directly about things like comic craft and resources to be about 100x more fulfilling than posting comics themselves. (And it is fun, sometimes, to gush about my OCs and how dumb they can be.) But how do I cope with it? Eh, it's honestly not a big deal to me. It feels less stressful in some regards, because the dayjob can get hella hectic, and trying to balance "OH GOD COMICS" with "OH GOD THE SERVERS NEED PATCHED ALL NIGHT TONIGHT" can be.... interesting.

(But oh god, I will admit, having someone come up to me and say, "I read your thing or used your photoshop/csp brushes" can be incredibly motivating. But other days, I have to be my own motivation, so...)

kayotics

Sometimes it’s helpful to keep a list of really nice comments or to write down memories of when someone told you they like your work. This can take a while to gather but if someone says something nice about your work, keeping it somewhere safe for a day you’re feeling bad can help boost that morale

It also helps me sometimes to think about how there’s a TON of people who never comment on things, but they’re probably regularly reading.

MJ Massey

Totally! I was building a landing page for my email subscription, and I was able to go back and find old reviews from my last comic, and it really got me pumped

Kabocha

Yeah! When I worked in a call center, the metrics on calls in -> surveys was something like... At best, you get 10% of your callers leaving surveys. And it's usually because you left an impression (good or bad). Usually the reality was at best, you'd hear back from about 2% of your userbase unless you gave them an incentive them to say something.

Mharz

re tapas and other platforms: I have to agree that certain genres really are more appealing there. I have two comics with different genres that I regularly update and the numbers are literally like night and day. It's a sad truth.

Mharz

I also love getting notifs on tapas when a person is binging my comics and liking every update. It means I got them hooked. :'3(edited)

nice reminder that there ARE people who like my comics.

Kabocha

Well yeah - even in traditional publishing, some genres generally get larger readerships than others (and higher advances) because they're more easily marketed. There's a reason why some publishers will categorize what's basically a fantasy story with romance subplots as a "romance" overall for a relatively unknown author (it's because they're more likely to attract more readers because romance is HUGE)

MJ Massey

true that

and you have to find where you audience lives as well

Kabocha

Yeah... I have some readers who only engage when they come back to catch up, which can be every 6weeks or more. Some only read when a chapter is done being posted, which is about every six months.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Re: Tapas. Yeah, Tapas especially has very particular styles and genres it likes (anime style + romance, especially BL). I posted Children of Shadow there for six months and had 20 total subs before taking it down. A while later I tried posting it on Webtoons and got 60 subs in one week. That level of engagement slowed down considerably almost immediately though, because the prologue episode is in colour and the main series is greyscale - and I discovered the hard way that the majority of Webtoons’ users do not like greyscale (I even got rating-bombed over it). My second comic is doing much better on Webtoons since it’s in digital colour rather than pencil like Children of Shadow. Each platform has its specific interests and it can be a struggle to get noticed if you’re not making something that falls into its normal styles and genres.

Glowbat (Aloe)

both tapas and webtoons really dont push their scifi comics hardly at all. Tapas' top scifi section is littered with discontinued stories (at least theyve abandoned tapas at any rate idk if theyre for sure no longer continued) which means that because i update weekly and sorta fall into a semi-anime inspired style i get some decent traffic from the small demographic who go hunting for a scifi comic

RebelVampire

That's not that surprising, tbh. Even in the realm of novels sci-fi is more of a hunt for where the audience is sometimes.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Scifi is an under-appreciated genre, imo. Unless you’re Star Wars, Star Trek or a Marvel comic, it seems like people don’t talk much about scifi.

It might help boost views if you rework your genre labels on places like Webtoons. Like, have Adventure or Drama as your main genre tag and Scifi as your secondary genre.

Glowbat (Aloe)

actually ever since avas demon went on webtoons ive been getting about 10-15 subs a week there

for a while i had listed aloe as drama first but the results werent fantastic as i think that genre has been flooded over there

keii4ii

I think sci-fi has some very prominent associations with the genre that don't apply to every sci-fi story -- e.g. the first thing a lot of people immediately think of is spaceship explody battles. So if someone sees sci-fi and they're not into spaceship explody battles, they won't read.

Glowbat (Aloe)

i may try adventure though if scifi doesnt pan out

keii4ii

Alternatively, if someone sees sci-fi and they ARE into that... and only that... they will leave once they find out the comic is not about that

Glowbat (Aloe)

thats also a good point

keii4ii

I've had similar difficulties even though fantasy is more widely accepted these days as a more varied mega-genre

People expect X, comic contains only a sprinkling of X and is about Y instead.

Glowbat (Aloe)

in my personal case, i've alienated potential readers i feel sometimes simply by having the cast be primarily lgtbq with an agender lead. but i dont regret that and im happy to have it deter people who arent down for that

RebelVampire

That is definitely true about sci-fi. Film has really biased people as to what fits sci-fi, where in reality sci-fi is a really wide genre. So a lot of stuff never gets a chance cause it confuses people.

Nutty (Court of Roses)

Yooooo i feel that, glowbat. On one hand, I want ppl to know that my comic is a safe read for LGBT, but at the same time I know that announcing it as such will deter others on principle.

The Q - working on WAYFINDERS

I feel the same way. The whole cast of Wayfinders is some form of lgbt+, but we don't actually adress it much, because it's an adventure story moreso than a romance. So it's like.... how do we tell the readers it ain't straight

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Fantasy does seem to get drowned by numbers. Eryl gets about 5 new subs per update and Children of Shadow only gets 1-2, and I think they’re just getting lost in the crowd.

Nutty (Court of Roses)

Two of my characters jokingly told each other their identity through bard puns, plus I keep pushing for gay ships within the story, so I'm pretty overt with my readers about it ahaha.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

@The Q - working on WAYFINDERS I’m having some difficulty with that dilemma, too. Both my comics feature large LGBTQ+ casts but romance isn’t the focus of either. It often feels like there’s no good way to bring it up naturally until the romance threads surface very far into the story, and I’m always worried about homophobes lashing out when they eventually discover the comic is G A Y

Glowbat (Aloe)

in my descriptions i describe the comic as a lgbtq+ themed scifi flat out

keii4ii

Early in HoK, one character embarks on a journey for a personal reason, and the MC tags along. I've semi-recently heard from an American friend that she didn't really get the character's reason. He wanted to take a younger family member away from a bad living situation, but to the friend, the situation didn't seem so bad. After some talking, we realized it was a cultural thing. The situation was very obviously bad to Koreans, but it didn't/doesn't seem like a far departure from the range of normal life in the US, for cultural/societal reasons. I suspect that was a big part of the reason why people kept pegging my comic as a "fun adventure romp" despite the lack of fun adventures (it has elements of adventure, but is not that as a whole). The reason for the journey seemed superficial, like the author (me) just needed an excuse to start the Fun Adventure-Filled Journey. Whereas Korean readers, back when I was publishing it in Korean, immediately understood it was an intensely personal, difficult task that the shy boy decided to accept for the sake of love.

And yeah, LGBTQ+ as a tag/ part of the description seems like a good option to me too!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

But then I’m also anxious that LGBT folks will think that’s false advertising because the characters’ labels aren’t mentioned until really far into the story (and it’s no where near that point yet). Aaaagh maybe I just overthink everything.

Glowbat (Aloe)

its really interesting to hear the difference in reception HoK gets

keii4ii

Yeah and the setting itself apparently feels different, too! To Koreans, it evokes secondhand nostalgia. But some non-Koreans have told me it feels fantastical and Ripe For Adventures

Glowbat (Aloe)

I feel you Lee- almost none of my chars have mentioned or done anything to illustrate their identities yet

keii4ii

(I also feel the need to mention, there have been non-Korean readers who got what HoK was about. Those readers mean so much to me! But I don't know if they understood that particular detail about Danbi's motivation for the journey early on.)

The Q - working on WAYFINDERS

(I'm gonna put so much lbgt+ love in the background of the story everytime they get to a new city ahahahaha >:) )

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

To me, @keii4ii HoK is very reminiscent of Studio Ghibli films because I get similar whimsical vibes. But Studio Ghibli has always been more about emotional journeys so after a couple chapters I was like ‘Ah, yes, I think this comic is about the characters’ emotional growth’(edited)

Holmeaa - working on WAYFINDERS

(muhahhaa, also just let Sallly flirt with all the ladies in the BG)

Glowbat (Aloe)

yesss flirt with ladies

MJ Massey

I'm worried that my comic is not "gay enough" to warrant the LGBT+ label. The character's sexualities have very little to do with the actual story, and one character is actively hiding their identity

The Q - working on WAYFINDERS

SAME

keii4ii

I'm aro/ace/agender and I don't really feel "LGBTQ+ enough" so I can't really use the LGBTQ+ label for my own comic, even though I know the label isn't exclusively for ownvoices stories.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I admit I’m not sure I ‘got’ Danbi’s motivations on a cultural level, but I felt like the tone being presented in that scene made it pretty clear she was in a bad situation?(edited)

Holmeaa - working on WAYFINDERS

but... we have calculated a total of 1 straight character in our whole comic.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

‘She’ as in the niece, not Danbi. XD(edited)

MJ Massey

that's what it seemed like to me too, or at least that by leaving their village they were going to a better situation

Glowbat (Aloe)

first of all- high fives keii because agender solidarity and second of all if you have chars who identify as either not straight or not cis or both rolled into one then its gay enough to have the lgbtq label

to heck with gate keepers

there are plenty of queer peeps who just want to read stories that casually include people like themselves

but if you dont feel its needed you dont have to either

MJ Massey

I guess there is a certain expectation when you say "I make an LGBTQ+ comic" of how that comic will be, and I don't want to disappoint people or set them up to expect something different

I just figure that all kinds of people exist in the world, so I should include as many different kinds of people as I can in my work

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I probs should just put LGBTQ+ labels in the descriptions and be like ‘this is genre fiction but almost everyone’s queer even though you can’t tell yet’. XD

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I use the term "LGBT-friendly" to indicate that they're present, but might not be the full focus

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I write genre stories because I’m not that into romance-centric stories myself. I want queer heroes in the kinds of stories I like to read without the entire focus being on their sordid love-lives. I just want to read about the hero who slayed a dragon to rescue his prince instead of his princess, lol.

Glowbat (Aloe)

lol im in a similar position where i'd rather see the hero befriend the dragon

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have plenty of that in my comics, too!

There’s some nice dragons and some very-not-nice ones. XD

Glowbat (Aloe)

(im insufferable in d&d i was a bard who tried to be friends with everything)

eryl is on my lisssst <3

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

This is why I love bards

Glowbat (Aloe)

hehe

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I'm always happy when people mark their stuff as LGBTQ+ if characters are present tbh Y_Y

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Also agreed with everything said above

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

All right, now Imma definitely have to add the LGBTQ+ labels to my comics next time I do website maintenance.

Glowbat (Aloe)

yay!

Nutty (Court of Roses)

Aw ye aw ye

Join the brigade

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yiss

I feel a bit bad bc I rarely read sth that's not clearly marked as LGBTQ+ or where I know the authors are part of the community whoops

But it's mostly the fact that I consumed hetero-focused media my whole life and now I can...choose.....

the dream

Glowbat (Aloe)

heck yes

im way more drawn to stories that are marked lgbtq+

keii4ii

Don't feel bad, because seriously, even if you exclusively read LGBTQ+ marked stories? There ain't enough time in this life to read every good story that fits that bill.

There are too many good stories out there and we do need to choose.

Glowbat (Aloe)

its just nicer because then i can enjoy the story without having to worry that in the middle of it im going to get a rude wake up call from an off colour joke or somethin at my expense

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that's true

keii4ii

Sometimes we miss out on stuff that we may have fallen in love with, but that's the name of the game, the game of not having enough time

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Webcomics feel a lot safer than other media in that regard atm

Jupp especially if you're also working on your own stories

Glowbat (Aloe)

it sucks thinking theres a bunch of stories out there that im sure id love if only i had the time or mental fortitude to sift through a bunch of others.

keii4ii

(OTL that reminds me... there is one instance of trope use in an early chapter of HoK that falls into that 'off color joke' category. I don't have any excuses for it, just 'I just thoughtlessly parroted a trope that I saw elsewhere.' I regret it and hope to figure out an elegant way to rewrite that one scene.)

Glowbat (Aloe)

i dont have the energy to be burned so often by stories that seem good and then hit me with random transphobic bs or using slurs as jokes

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, as someone who grew up in a time when no one positively portrayed queer folks in mainstream stories (and there was no internet and living out in the boonies made it impossible to discover underground cultures) I love that now I can seek out tonnes of LGBTQ stories and drown myself in the gay every day.

Glowbat (Aloe)

yesss

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

jupp ;;

Glowbat (Aloe)

man if i could give ten year old me printed copy of paranatural and turn to the pages with rj's identity being explained? that kid would have grown up way happier

living in small towns aint great for queer peeps

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Nope it’s not. I was badly repressed until honestly only 3 years ago when I suddenly asked myself why I loved reading about and writing so many gay characters. And then suddenly my whole life made sense.

Glowbat (Aloe)

im so happy for you<3

Glowbat (Aloe)

its a heck of a thing thinking back on things and realizing why you do certain things

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Honestly there were giant clues from when I was still a little kid and I can’t believe it took me so long. XD But I’m digressing from the comic talk, lol.

Glowbat (Aloe)

haha i understand what you mean

i think its why its so important for comics to be inclusive

spare some poor kids the heart ache and confusion

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yes! The internet has created such a boom for indie comics and that huge variety of voices has been so so important.

Glowbat (Aloe)

as much as comics are an art, they're extremely powerful as a vehicle for teaching and generally conveying ideas

FeatherNotes

Can i just say how happy i am that y'all are making LGBTQ+ comics that aren't just romance tho? I'm pretty indifferent and on the ace spectrum for sure, so its so refreshing that we can have a queer cast just being cool and not hurt by identities. I wish i had that as a kid

Also no shade on romance but there's def a lot and lgbtq+ isn't just for that genre

So yes yall are 'gay enough' lol

Glowbat (Aloe)

i agree! queer peeps shouldn't be squared off in romance, which unfortunately i think is a result of people's gross misconceptions

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Admittedly, I use my comics as a vehicle to work through my own issues, so there are scenes planned where the characters have to deal with transphobia or homophobia. But I will always counterbalance that with other scenes that validate the characters’ identities.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmhm my story also deals with transphobia and dysphoria bc I'm working through own issues. I don't think that's a bad thing though

generally I think it's pretty ok if the story is not a constant misery train

(even those can be written well, but they are usually not my cup of tea)

Glowbat (Aloe)

i think its perfectly acceptable to use comics as a vehicle for that lee

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeahh tbh

MJ Massey

there's no wrong reason to make comics/create a thing

Glowbat (Aloe)

youre a queer creator and you're working with what you know so why not

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I know focusing on queer suffering has been criticised a lot but I feel there's more nuance to it. Especially if it's a LGBTQ+ person writing about it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah. I’m a miserable emo and I write miserable emo stories, but I try to inject some hope into it, because I think that the majority of humans are good and/or want to be good.

Glowbat (Aloe)

theres this comic called dropout that does a wonderful job exploring the grittier truths of being queer

its a fairly short read but its super good

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Hmmm, I may look that up

Glowbat (Aloe)

i can dm you the link! no pressure to read it tho

twothirty

gosh, i just want to chime in because i really relate to earlier comments around labelling comics. I'm bi, but i don't wear it on my sleeve, and my own comic has like...1 straight character. I feel like there is an expectation for comics labelled as lgbtq+ and i don't want to disappoint people who are really looking for that content to be directly addressed.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Tbh I feel many people are just happy, if there's queer characters doing cool stuff (at least that's how it's for me).

Glowbat (Aloe)

i label my own comic as lgbtq+ and the plot hardly hinges on that being the central theme

just a bunch a gay scientists and robots in space

...i swear its way more interesting that that lol

man i wish i could get more of my comic out faster so i didnt have to worry about spoiling basic things geeze

twothirty

haha im into it! Ahh, well probably a big part of it is my own insecurities, but what are webcomics for if not... for figuring out your own crap (edited)

keii4ii

I feel that X'D

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

juppp...I get the anxiety tho

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Mess of anxiety solidarity.

Glowbat (Aloe)

oof yeah

also hey while we're at it with the queer biz in here:

aro/ace/bi peeps are all gay enough full stop

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

YES

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

jupp

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

As a demi-bi dude I fully endorse that all labels are valid.

And that gatekeeping sucks and helps no one

Glowbat (Aloe)

yeah anyone who makes you feel like you dont belong under the lgbtq+ umbrella isnt doin right by you

and your comics should be allowed to be considered as queer as you want them to be

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Also all gender identities are valid and don’t hinge on having a physical transition. You’re valid as trans whether you change your body or not.

Glowbat (Aloe)

^^^

YES

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

YESS

Glowbat (Aloe)

all our experiences are valid and the comics we make because of those experience are beautiful

Deo101

Oh man I missed a huge convo, but I love y'all and it's wonderful seeing so many kinds of comics out there and seeing people make their own content

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Yo, nothing "gross" about romance, and the reason people flock to it is because romance with same-gender couples and/or trans people has been treated as "deviant disorder that needs to be cured and cleaned up, or at least kept far away from polite society" for so long (and still is, in many places)

All queer stories are valid, queer characters don't need to be in a romantic storyline to count, but please let's discuss that without echoing homophobic rhetoric about queer romance being "gross", yeah?(edited)

MJ Massey

I don't think it was meant gross as in queer romance itself being gross, but more in the finding a general distaste for romance tropes and romance as a genre

but I agree, that we should be careful about implying those sorts of things with our work

keii4ii

Romance as a genre is valid too; the consensus was just that there's a lot of it, and other genres are valid too. That every genre is valid

MJ Massey

true, but people might just feel strong distaste for certain genres from a personal point of preference

it's part of what makes the fabric of human existence so fascinating, we all have different opinions, likes, dislikes, viewpoints...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

tbh I love romance stories but the thing that disheartens me is that the queer stories people take most serious are romances

keii4ii

The pigeonholing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Can you elaborate on that Keiiii?

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Those are the stories that get repressed and erased the most, is the thing, so it takes more effort to get them produced and shared, and that makes people extra-happy

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t think anyone said romance stories were gross?

Just that it’s not necessarily our jam.

keii4ii

Oh, I meant that's what people are doing when people start exclusively associating a very diverse experience/ group of people with ONE thing, to a point where the people in that group are not allowed to be anything other than That One Thing

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I was reacting to "queer peeps shouldn't be squared off in romance, which unfortunately i think is a result of people's gross misconceptions"

keii4ii

and it's a really unfair, inaccurate restriction

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Ahhhh

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

OH okay, thank you for elaborating, Keiiii. I couldn't really associate anything with the term at first!

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Misconceptions are the reason queer people have been excluded from most romance for so long

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think in that case it was more about people's misconception of queer identities being inherintly sexual and/or romantic though?

and not about queer romance being gross

DanitheCarutor

Huh, I thought 'gross' in that context was more akin to 'outlandish' or 'exaggerated', but I could be misunderstanding.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I think it means more that a lot of people fetishise queer relationships when there’s only representation in romance.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Associating "queer people being sexual and/or romantic" with "gross" is still hella dicey

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

the misconception is what's gross, not the queer people or their romance?

Glowbat (Aloe)

re: gross misconceptions :Oh! i think i said that Erin- i don't think i did a great job of explaining my thoughts on that. on sites like tapas and webtoons its fairly common for gay couples to be exploited for an audience thats less interested in representation than fetishization(edited)

MJ Massey

yes I think there was some lamenting that it could be difficult to show queer characters without an element of romance to make their identities apparent?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t think they meant gross as in disgusting but gross as in ‘far off the mark’

MJ Massey

because some people wanted to have queer characters but not focus on a romantic plot

@Glowbat (Aloe) I know what you are talking about I think

Deo101

Yeah, though I'd like to add on as someone who is writing LGBT romance, I get lumped in with fetishization content a lot and that is very frustrating for me, too

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

And it does take a lot of digging to find respectful representation in romance instead of stories made by and for straight people that use bad stereotypes to fetishise queer relationships.

Not that all romance by and for straight people does this.

But it’s a problem in the genre

Deo101

I work very hard to portray healthy loving relationships and people lump me in to their hatred of romance in general or categorize my work as bl or discount it for having that. It gets fetishized or dismissed an awful lot and that's very frustrating for me to see happening

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

If you want to talk specifically about something you feel is stereotypical or fetishizing, I wouldn't object to that, it's the broad swipes at all romance that become a problem

Glowbat (Aloe)

agreed

queer romance is very important to represent

i dont think anyone here would imply otherwise

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And, hey, sometimes queer writers/readers also enjoy a romance that's unrealistic or trashy or silly or melodramatic, I don't want to dismiss "all romance that wouldn't represent a healthy and respectful relationship IRL" either

Glowbat (Aloe)

very true

Deo101

Yeah, not what I was trying to say.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Idk if anyone was saying that tbh

Glowbat (Aloe)

i think our initial conversation though boiled down to that we were happy to see stories with queer people being allowed to just be people doing things that didnt focus on romance

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I'm personally very glad that we are getting a wider variety of queer romance now

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

What we were discussing earlier is more that it’s important to portray queer protagonists in all kinds of genres, instead of only romance. Which doesn’t mean romance isn’t also a valid genre.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Sure, and part of my discomfort is that queer characters have already been "allowed" to do non-romantic things in mainstream media for a long time -- it's being "allowed" to have an explicit romance that's new and different

keii4ii

^ I don't know about that. It probably depends on where you are, both IRL and part of the internet?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I never saw a queer character that wasn’t either tragic, a deviant, or the butt of a joke in media until the late ‘O0s(edited)

MJ Massey

both views are valid--it's good to both want explicit queer romance and to also just want to see queer people doing a wide range of things

DanitheCarutor

@Glowbat (Aloe) Yeah, to parrot what you said. I just chalked the convo up to seeing queer characters expand into different genres, and being happy that queer fiction is starting to be known for more than just romance.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

There was no positive representation in any genre in the media I had access to for most of my life(edited)

Deo101

It helps with the normalization of stories like that, but I also think it makes homophobes be "more comfortable" with gay stories sometimes in a way that bothers me

I have had someone say that my story is the only bl they can stand so I'm sensitive about this subject though

Cause there's a lot to unpack there

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

The "if there has to be a queer romance, at least make it awful and tragic" trope was absolutely true in my area too

yikes, I can see being sensitive about that

Deo101

Like me writing something that primarily isn't romance and just has a romance b plot is making homophobes and fetishizing people read my work and that's frustrating for me in a way I can't articulate. I'm very happy within the LGBT+ community to have these works be made but among the straight people I know it's uncomfortable when they start saying things like "oh yay finally some gay stuff that isn't romance" kind of thing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that makes sense

Deo101

From other gay people I get it, it makes sense and I'm the same way! Especially with the oversaturation of bl

DanitheCarutor

@Deo101 Gah I got a comment like that before, it was a weird situation because not only was it unnecessary but... TGtaHR isn't even a romance...

Thinking about it, that's actually kinda worrying.

Deo101

But it's important to remember that the LGBT+ community is a bubble and though it's safe to explore all sorts of stories here, it's not safe outside of our bubble

Or, not necessarily safe

Like a homophobe reading a gay story with an unhealthy dynamic could just bolster their bad opinions about gay people even if it's exploring it in a healthy way

I have a hard time explaining what I'm thinking and I really hope this all makes sense

keii4ii

I get you

Glowbat (Aloe)

(i get what youre saying deo <3 )

Deo101

And its not something we can really change but I think it's important to remember with regards to society at large and how our stories are percieved outside the community

Phew lol

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I get what you're saying, although in that case, the homophobe was probably going to think that no matter what, and if it wasn't the story they'd find some other "evidence"

Deo101

Yeah absolutely

And I think it's important to remember that when talking about exploring stories that have unhealthy Dynamics and things other than romance and whatnot. I don't want those things to become safe for cishets to exploit basically

Like "oh great now I don't need to write them kissing so I can access BOTH the LGBT and everyone else!"

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Ah, you mean like "the author says they're gay, so that counts as representation and LGBT people should buy this, even though there's never anything explicitly gay in the story"

right?

Deo101

Yeah

Deo101

Which again within the community I get and it's important to explore things like that for sure

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think the important difference is, writers within the community are going to do something to indicate the queer identity, even when it's not "having an on-screen romance"

And that's something that, say, your average JKR doesn't bother doing

Deo101

Again I have a hard time explaining myself and I might be tripping over my words a bit here

Yeah that's true as well

I trust LGBT people to be navigating stories with an inherent nuance

For the most part

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

That, or (I think people were talking about this upthread) we don't advertise a story as "look at all this representation!" while the characters' identities haven't come up in the comic yet

Deo101

Yeah I know I didn't say my story was LGBT til I had the married couple kiss cause I was worried people would think I was gaybaiting

I know I'm not but it feels wrong to me like I'm trying to rally up readers kinda thing...

But also if you know you're planning to do it I feel like you can say it'll be there

I just have anxiety LOL

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

No, I get you. Even if it's definitely going to happen in the future of the comic, it'll disappoint readers if you rally them up for something that isn't there yet

That would happen with anything, not just queer identities

Deo101

Yeah I also don't tag my pages or whatever for disability if a character isn't disabled on the page

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Like if it was "read my comic for cool space battles!" when you had only posted the 5 pages of setup with characters having a chill talk in a field

sssfrs

I think what bothers me about lbgtq focused romance stories is that they’re often centered on how ~scandalous~ the relationship is and how the characters have to overcome personal biases or homophobia/transphobia as the central struggle

Deo101

I don't want the wrong audience. I mean I also could probably slap bl on my cover and I feel like I'd get a lot more readers but they're not the readers I want

sssfrs

Or at least I dont enjoy reading stories like that

Deo101

Yeah that frustrates me too, personally

But some people like seeing that overcoming idk

sssfrs

My comic has at least 2 visible prominent gay relationships but its not about romance at all

I guess thats personal preference(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think a lot of the time you also know what intentions the person behind telling a story like that has? I have a straight aquaintaince writing BL and it's totally clear that she thinks the whole ordeal is kinda cute and endearing when it's pretty...harsh for actual queer people

Deo101

Mines got 5 and it is about romance cause I absolutely love romance and I love love, but I am overly frustrated with romance as a genre. Which is why I write my own

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think that goes back to the "talk about a specific trope that bothers you, don't treat it like the whole genre" thing I was saying

Deo101

Yeah I think there's a lot of nuance to it that cishet people largely don't have

sssfrs

I feel like it makes the romance into a statement about how society is bad and its not interesting or groundbreaking to represent that bigotry in your media without adding something new

Deo101

I'm frustrated with the often unhealthy Dynamics and the frequency with which homophobia and transphobia are shown.

I live in a homophobic household I don't want it in my romance cause it hurts to see

But, I don't think it's bad to tackle those issues it's just hard for me personally

sssfrs

I like pairing up side characters but only 2 pairs are going to have an Arc. so far....

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I...feel for many cishet authors it's also a good excuse to not have the characters get together right away without actually thinking about why they would not for other reasons (like personality based). So there's a lot of "I'm not gay!!!" type of thing

Also totally understandable Deo :C

Deo101

Yeah absolutely.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It’s also valid, as a queer author, though, to show characters that do have to overcome their ‘gay panic’ when they first realise they’re gay. It’s something a lot of us have gone through, but it’s important to show the comfort you finally feel in yourself when you come out the other end if it.

sssfrs

Why should fiction include all the shitty parts of real life

Deo101

I think straight people see LGBT authors tackle these issues and go "oh so I can too!!!"

And yeah this is why I'm largely drawn to sci-fi and fantasy, I get to entirely remove all the things that hurt me about reality. Dude can just use a cane and everyone is like dope

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Because sometimes fiction helps us process all the shitty parts of real life. Both happy stories that take away shit and gritty stories that acknowledge shit are valid and important

Deo101

Ppl can just be trans and it's fine

I agree they're all important

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(I think I'm just super bitter bc here I've seen cis and straight women get awards for their queer romance stories which just hmm)

Deo101

^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I agree it's a super nuanced topic

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

...I feel like you've also gotta make some allowance for bad writing. Like, maybe someone's not getting a lot of nuance in their story because their skills aren't sharp enough to handle it yet.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Agreed, Erin!

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And one of the ways they'll get good enough to write better stories is by working out issues through writing the worse stories.

sssfrs

My main character is a butch lesbian gnc completely androgynous person and no one is ever going to say anything nasty to her about it

Deo101

I feel you sssfrs lol(edited)

Deo101

I thirst for gentle, nice LGBT stories. I just crave them

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I feel that. As I build Prismal and decided to include lgbt folks in it, my first thought about it was "would there be any reason for them to be hated in this society? No? Then why would I include that theme?"

Deo101

And yes it's important to delve into the harsher realities and I think it's good to use fiction to explore and work through those themes, definitely, but personally no thx

sssfrs

I like where ppl are just all expected to be pan or bisexual by default

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

heh, I literally have 2 comics and one of them is "real world where characters struggle with realistic prejudices" while the other is "fantasy world with 0% homophobia/transphobia."

Something for everyone!

sssfrs

Nice

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’m too goddamn miserable to write such nice stories, lol. But writing gritty stories where my characters go through hell helps me process the stuff I go through in my life. But I love reading those nice stories where we can forget racism and queerphobia exist.(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hehe...I've decided to go into some queerphobia in my next comic only bc I want to...explore historical queer spaces and the kind of space does not make sense in a world that's 100% accepting

Deo101

Yeah it's just all about that nuance babeyy

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeahhh

Deo101

I think that's also why we see so much more LGBT content of all kinds in indie media

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Absolutely

Less gatekeeping, less opportunity for homophobes to shut it down

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

No big boss complaining it’s not ‘marketable’ to be inclusive

Deo101

And I worry that mainstream stuff will be like "ohoho, so that means I can do it too" *stumbles and sets gay people back 10 years in the eyes of the general public *

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

YEEEEEEAH there’s that

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think the mainstream is going slow enough that that's far from my biggest worry

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

But change never happens smoothly

Sometimes it goes up and down before society evolves into a better mindset

Deo101

Well yeah ofc, but even on a smaller scale of bad people reading good works it is kinda happening I feel like

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So there’s gonna be periods of shit before being queer is faithfully represented in the mainstream

Deo101

Yeah for sure

It helps normalize things but it also can do it in an unhealthy way and it's frustrating

As in people going "yes let's include gay romance *it's just bl tropes *"

And things like that

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think the best way to counter that is by producing & supporting more stories of all kinds -- the more complex and multifaceted a view people get, the better

Deo101

Yeah

From people who are handling those stories well, too ^^^

Which is subjective of course I know that

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Also, something nobody's mentioned that I think should come up...a lot of times you don't know who's straight/cis and who's not. Like, if it's Famous Mainstream Author JKR, you can be pretty sure, but with small-scale indie creators, how much can you tell the difference between "straight/cis artist who thinks BL tropes are how all real gay relationships work" versus "gay/bi/trans/etc artist who understands IRL fine, but it's fun and self-indulgent for them to write those tropes"?

Especially since the artist could be actively in the closet. Or could still be on their own journey of self-discovery and not know they aren't straight and/or cis yet. All the more so since indie creators are more likely to be younger than well-established mainstream standards.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t know about you guys, but it’s always BLATANTLY obvious to me by how they’re writing.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

How did you confirm it? Did you ask them?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Call it intuition

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I don't think it's always confirmable tho :C

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Granted, sometimes a person writes with enough nuance that I can tell they're queer, but how do you tell a straight writer from an awkward/inexperienced/clunky queer writer?

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I know a lot of authors thinking they were cishet and later on realizing they were not

and some of them wrote a lot of "yikes"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

There’s writing patterns and use of tropes that signal whether the person is actually respectful if the queer community or not

Deo101

Also just cause you're working through things doesn't mean it's a healthy exploration that is good for the community at large

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Even if they’re queer and self-indulging, there’s a lot of tells both in the comics and in their commentary

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

tbh I think some tropes are fair to criticise no matter if the author is queer or not but there are also queer authors writing disrespectful tropes

it's not sth that I see a lot, but I've seen it

Deo101

^ yeah this

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

All questions of their writing aside, there are definitely queer people who don't respect the community IRL, either...

Deo101

Like it's not good to write glorifying rape fic of pedophilia no matter who you are or how it's helping you work through things. I mean you can write it but then to share it is something else entirely

Not saying those are common things but they're pretty very much "bad" things

And actually glorifying rape is something I do see much more than I would have expected

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

And that’s problematic, too. When you’re part of a community but not respectful of it, that’s just as bad as a straight person being homophobic. Sometimes the worst homophobia cones from within the community, but that doesn’t make it okay or healthy.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

If you share a dark story behind accurate warnings and labels, then it can reach other people who are working through something by reading it, and be avoided by people who don't.

Deo101

Yeah there's a lot of lateral agression within the community

Okay but glorification of it isn't a healthy way to work through those things it's not a dark story

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'm not saying homophobia from within the community is okay or healthy, I'm just saying it doesn't have to indicate that the person is straight/cis.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have a lot of dark themes in my comics. There is rape, but it is never shown on panel and never never glorified. I think it’s a subject that’s important to talk about, but I find it extremely disturbing how much it’s romanticised in fiction.

Deo101

^^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah...

DanitheCarutor

Huh, this convo reminds me of an article a friend sent me from someone's Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/posts/25994657 It talks about creation policing, and problematic fiction. You all proooobably won't agree with it given the direction of discussion (which all points of view are totally valid), but this whole subject is super interesting.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

All right, true, you can’t always know if an author is queer or not. I should have been more specific in whether an author has a healthy view of the LGBTQ community or not.

Deo101

So you might not be able to tell if someone is gay by their writing, but there are certain trends that gay people do not generally fall into that MOSTLY indicate someone is straight, though there's no way to know for sure.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

THAT is always obvious to me.

Deo101

And like def there are bi women who fetishize gay men, and there is transphobia and biohobia and everything within the community

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

If they’re being homophobic or just don’t ‘understand’ the queer community, I mean

Deo101

Etc etc, so even if you can't tell whether a harmful representation is written by someone who is LGBT it's a harmful representation regardless

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

^^^^This

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah. I'm always very hesistant on how to address things like this

Deo101

Me too esp since I have such a hard time saying what I mean

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'm not saying it's impossible to write harmful representation, but "this is harmful!" gets used as a cudgel against any representation, so often that I'm wary of talking about it as a vaguely-defined blanket category.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It’s hard to articulate things clearly when in fast-paced chats like this

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah, haha

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

At least it's good for leveling people up, huh?

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

eifhiuef pfft

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Lol. ‘You levelled up talking about homophobia!’

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(I feel we're all respectful and try to explain ourselves and give others the chance to do so too)

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

At least it's good for something??

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(so that's good haha)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yes. Talks like this are super important to help see each others views on tricky subjects

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Yeah, I feel like we're making good-faith attempts to understand each other, which...is not something you always get in internet discussions

To put it very very mildly

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

We all have our own stories and unique perspectives, and that’s important to share both in the fiction we write and in discussions with each other

DanitheCarutor

@Phin (Heirs of the Veil) The subject is pretty sticky. On one hand artists should be allowed to create whatever they like, on the other if that work can perpetuate harm for a certain community should it be allowed? There is a lot of this going around right now where people want sanitization in media, and what works of art are and are not allowed to exist. Not saying it's bad, but it is fascinating. I'm not fully getting into the convo because I'm honestly super neutral.

kayotics

I’m definitely watching the convo play out, it’s interesting to see a chat like this develop

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

yeah I'm taking notes this is not my area of expertise, and it's all good stuff to keep in mind

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'm okay discussing & criticizing specific examples (which is probably why I keep bringing up Dumbledore...), but I don't like being critical of broad categories, because they can be so ambiguous & easily misused.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

@DanitheCarutor I think it is very hard to differentiate between people who want difficult subjects to be explored (which is valid) and people who don't want to be called out for certain kinks for example and a lot of the times stuff like "purity policing" gets used to shut legit criticism up. On the other hand there are a lot of examples of callout culture gone wild and honestly ??? Idk anymore.

Deo101

Its very frustrating

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

But I'm also at a point where I'm getting super tired of constant discourse so

Deo101

Yeah I've literally had to block words like "ace" cause it's just so often discourse from either side and I'm just so tired of it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Plus there’s always going to be stories that help one person work through things but that are very toxic and upsetting to someone else. Just like there’s people who are toxic to one person and important to someone else.(edited)

Deo101

I've also blocked LGBT and "feminism" kinda things

I JUST see cats and memes now thank you

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Lee: absolutely, which is why accurate labels are important

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Eyyyy, it's my turn!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yes

kayotics

I think it’s important to curate your online experience, and sometimes NOT curating your experience leads to purity policing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

HMM

kayotics

But yes tagging is really important!!!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think there is the creation of a lot of anxiety in what and what you can't tell in stories

Deo101

Tags are super important but also when someone doesn't think or realize they're doing something harmful they might not tag it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Warning labels all around are always a good idea

Deo101

Like if someone is being a homophobe just cause etheyre homophobic they're not gonna tag that

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

True

Deo101

Why tag it's glorifying abuse if they think it's hot or reality and don't realize that's bad

Etc etc

kayotics

There’s definitely a lot of creator anxiety lately, I’ve had a lot of friends come to me with anxieties about not wanting to start a project they love because they’re afraid of who might attack them online

Deo101

^^^ I've been scared about this

kayotics

Me too, honestly

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Same honestly

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

There’s always the issue if ‘should harmful ideas be given a platform’ vs ‘stifling voices you just don’t want to hear’ it’s a fine line.

Deo101

I once got all in a tizzy cause I was like "oh my god my planet of women is asking a man for help"

Yeah cause some free speech silences other's

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Same

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And sometimes you get people thinking "if I label this with a warning that it contains Bad Content, the internet police will come after me," so they don't use warnings for that reason, and then it's just bad times all around

Deo101

Yeah.

And also there are things no one thinks to warn about, like some very specific triggers

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah...

Deo101

Its just all around a very difficult to navigate space

DanitheCarutor

@Phin (Heirs of the Veil) Right? People do that with anything, if it's not the "purity police" excuse it's "my style", or "I'm friends with -insert minority here-!" I don't bother with the arguments anymore since I've been pushed into them enough, I'm more into seeing opinion on general art policing, or what is and isn't allowed to exist in art. Sorry, I'm being slow at typing again.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Heck, if we're talking about actual psychological triggers, most of them are going to be super-specific

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I have a trigger for fungal growth on bodies now bc I have 3 people who either have probs with plants growiing on bodies OR funghi lol

Deo101

Ya I have a "someone watching someone else sleep" trigger which people use a surprising amount

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

...wait, Phin, now you have a trigger, or now you use a warning for it?

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

@DanitheCarutor srsly don't worry about it, haha. It's a nuanced topic and I think generalizing is pretty bad when it comes to what you can and can't portray

I use a warning for it, sorry Erin, wasn't clear

I had multiple people approach me so I warn in update posts and should probs also do it on the website

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

no worries, just wanted to be sure

kayotics

I do have an extreme phobia of needles and you’d be surprised how many news sites use active needle shots for vaccination stories

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

GOD I KNOW

I am not afraid of them but like once they are near skin

I don't wanna see...these shots

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have a deathly phobia of vomiting and there are NEVER warning labels for it.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah I think most people don't regard it and sometimes it's hard to get everything...

a friend of mine, Eli, creates a very gory comic and they put all their warnings on their update post images

and I kinda wanna try to be similarly mindful?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

(I’m okay if it’s in a comic and off-panel or the gross part is not shown but the sound and sight are crippling for me and shows and movies just SHOW it all the time)

kayotics

That’s true. Not a vomit fan.

DanitheCarutor

Ah I've thought about using page by page TWs, and I tried it out with one page, but with the amount of triggering thing in my comic I decided on a general warning. (since almost every page would get a warning) A few of my readers also said they preferred not to see them due to possible spoilers.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmm...I have a list of possible triggers in my about section

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I probably should start doing that bc my comics get very bloody

kayotics

I know I’ll have a scene eventually that I’ll want to have a warning on, but I’m not sure how to warn for it without spoiling?

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I installed a spoilertext plugin on one of my comics for that! Now I can put specific warnings at the front of a storyline, and readers who don't have triggers & don't want spoilers can leave them hidden.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

OHH that's a cool idea

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, mine is like a general pop-up that you have to click on to proceed to the comic.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’m going to have to look at that plugin. Potential spoilers are the only reason I don’t have really detailed warnings on my comics

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Here's the one I use: https://wordpress.org/plugins/inline-spoilers/

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah I'll look into it too. It seems super useful.

Heck thanks Erin!

DanitheCarutor

I don't know how you could make a warning without spoilers, @kayotics! I mean, you might have to if you want to do a page specific one.(edited)

Sorry, my cat sent the message for me.

kayotics

I was thinking a page specific one for the upcoming scene.

So I’m glad that doesn’t seem weird

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'd say super-general warnings are mostly not spoilers. A movie will say "contains graphic violence", and that doesn't tell you who's being violent, or why, or how it's resolved.

DanitheCarutor

^^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah, I think that's not a spoiler, especially if the comic was already violent

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah. I have warnings for things like ‘graphic violence, blood and gore, nudity, etc. But some chapters or pages probably warrant more detailed TWs.

Deo101

Yeah I'm gonna put in my a/n for a few updates before like "hey there are some spooky scenes comin' up!'

kayotics

I wouldn’t say my comic is already violent, so it’s more applicable for this one scene

Deo101

And yeah things like "watching someone sleep" is gonna be at least somewhat of a spoiler...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hmhm

DanitheCarutor

@kayotics I think it really just depends on the person too. Some readers like page by page TWs, and don't see them as spoilers, others are the opposite. Your readers might appreciate a warning more than mine since your comic isn't overall super graphic.(edited)

Gah I can not type today!

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I put "this will get bloody" before some of the vampire storylines, not spoiler-cut -- because it's not a given, but shouldn't exactly be a surprise, either.

Deo101

I also do not mind spoilers whatsoever and I WILL spoil to anyone who asks as I've said many times, but I know not everyone is like me and spoilers are a big deal to many people

"i don't mind spoilers" i love them and they make me enjoy things more for many reasons

DanitheCarutor

Ah same! I'd love to just spill everything!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(Deo high five bc same)

Deo101

My people

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

tbh spoilers got me interested in many comics and I actively spoil myself

like getting into new comics and reading the updates before jumping to the beginning haha

kayotics

I’m very much the opposite

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I don't want to spoil anything, I want to keep people guessing! But sometimes you gotta.

Deo101

Yes. I get incredibly stressed about whether or not things will work out and spoilers relieve that. Even if it doesn't work out like at least I know

I get so so sooo stressed about it

kayotics

Whenever people tell me spoilers I actively like content less

DanitheCarutor

I don't mind them myself. My mom absolutely hates them, and used to make me spoil every movie if I saw it before her, so I'm pretty alright with it.

Deo101

Yeah ik many people are that way

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah I also think that's fair

DanitheCarutor

Also spoilers don't affect me either since it's not the content that means anything, but how it's used. Imo

kayotics

Usually for me it’s like. “Ok you spoiled a major character death/reveal, that’s not fun for me anymore”

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

OH yeah Kay! Tbh

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

If there's a big twist, I want to be unspoiled the first time I watch/read/etc the thing. If it's handled well, I can always rewatch it again with the knowledge.

kayotics

Because then I don’t get to experience that anymore

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

that's sth that can also ruin a story for me

kinda didn't get into the current season of CritRoll bc of such a spoiler

with comics it's kinda like...I see them on twitter, read along a few updates and then jump to the beginning so there I don't mind spoilers at all

it's more scoping out if the story's for me

Deo101

Oh man I sometimes only get into things because of spoilers LOL I know I'm weird with this but genuinely I love spoilers so much they make me comfortable with what I'm watching. I love rewatching things cause I know how it goes down and I'm not stressed by it

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I sometimes have troubles to deal with...raw emotions towards media so spoilers help me with that too

like preparing myself for it to hurt

(not always tho)

Deo101

Right yeah for sure

Even if I know it won't work out I KNOW and I don't put energy into getting my hopes up

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I hate spoilers, personally. I love going into stories completely blind or with just the bare-bones ‘genre, overall theme’ because I LOVE being shocked and surprised and have plot-twists thrown at me, so that’s what I do with my own comics(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that's also fair. Right now my brain's not in the mood for that so I gotta play it save hehe

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I still don't like saying "here's what the Beings are" in ads or sales pitches for BICP, even though the page where it was revealed is several years old by now

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

But everyone likes different things so there’s nothing wrong with giving spoilers for your own stories if people want them(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah it depends honestly and that's pretty okay.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Everyone’s different and everyone’s valid

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I don't spoil my own story, except with artworks and mostly it's without context or cryptic enough that it's not...a real spoiler

yeah!

in that regard, it's just a huge matter of taste

twothirty

i also jump into webcomics, read them backgrounds for a bit then realized im actually into it and read it properly haha

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hahaha yes

If I get invested without context I know it's good lol

Deo101

I don't spoil on public platforms cause I know people don't wanna necessarily see that (unless it's in an ama but I try to avoid spoilers still) but in private? I'll spill whatever tf u want like

I have and I will again!!!! Lmao

I know no one is gonna write it like me and also it's p linear so the only spoilers people really ask are Character things not plot things, anyways

So I'm not worried about theft im not doing anything super wild or original lol

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

all my favorite panels I've done are all the most spoilery ones, so... whether I share them or not, I lose

Deo101

Aw man

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

SAME

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

nooo

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

but it makes sense! I put all my effort into those moments where the story twists and turns

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Some of my fave panels or pages are when big reveals or plot twists happened

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

and it shows

so meh, I'll live

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So I can’t share them to people who haven’t read my comic yet XD

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

luckily they don't make a ton of sense out of context, but... as soon as people start reading they might be like OHHH I know what's coming now

but it got them reading so shrug

I guess all mileage varies

Deo101

I feel like even the way I talk about my comic spoils it LMAO whoops

I'm made out of spoilers I can t hold them all in very clumsy

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

haha

I feel the same a lot

(But I also just wanna scream 24/7 about my stories whoopsie)

Deo101

I once had readers asking me to sum up a chapter caus ethey were confused and I just waited til someone else did it cause I was worried I'd spoil Something in trying to sun it up

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Linear stories are good too, though! Just reading a satisfying, well-written story is great; there doesn’t really NEED to be twist and turns for it to be food.

Deo101

Who doesn't wanna scream all the time and their stories hahahahha

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

GOOD

NOT FOOD

GAH

Deo101

Millennium is yummy yummy yum

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

...for the in-universe version of spoilers, I just had a moment of "hang on, this scene could've been way more dramatic if this one character hadn't already been given a certain reveal last chapter"

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

good food, agreed

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Normally I get away with not having a long buffer prepped ahead of time, but for once I wish I could still change this

Nutty (Court of Roses)

i spoil a lot about my characters more than i do the plot lol

i mean except their backstories sometimes

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Oh :C sometimes it's like this, Erin. Reasons buffers are good, but when do you have the time....

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I've tried putting this one on hiatus to prep a buffer, but it turns out I need the deadlines and the regular feedback to push me through making the pages...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

oh I see. Understandable though...the only time I create real buffer is when I finish a book for print and have a deadline there.

(I wanna try to actually...get better though, since I wanna start a second comic project)

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I mean, sometimes if there's a process that works for you, you gotta just go with it and not waste energy fighting it. Even if it's not the Best or Most Professional way.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that's true. It's just frustrating when you compare the work you get done in these phases vs. every other time.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Clearly the solution is to split it up into smaller books, so you have more print deadlines!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

haha, that might be!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I need buffers or I get super stressed. Unfortunately I also find them difficult to keep up.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Buffers are very hard to keep up. I'm running out of mine next week, whoops

But I've already started working on new pages

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I have...a half-finished, past-deadline page open in another window right now, lol

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I haven’t been able to draw for about a month, so one comic’s buffer is getting low and the other’s going to either miss this week or be late.

And I’m stressing about it. -_-

sssfrs

I’m so excited for my story to progress. I’m tempted to talk about it but when I am I think that nothing I say casually will be as impactful as just letting the story actually play out

Desnik

I deal with lack of engagement by throwing my ideas (or myself) at people. I learned that keeping secret twists as spoilers was inhibiting my growth as a writer, so instead I talk through my plots with my writing group and I often walk away with much better ideas to write

We're a kidlit/MG/YA group and I'm writing in a similar fashion, so we usually don't have to warn each other about anything we're writing, which is its own kind of freedom

if I can get the content to be good enough, and land in front of someone who'll help me take it further, then the engagement will follow

keii4ii

(This the right place?)

Deo101

Speaking of a lack of engagement, i feel like my engagement rates are incredibly low. I get a good bit, i get comments on every page and im very happy with that, but it's odd that i dont get more given my amount of readers and I wonder if some comics just aren't the kind of story people feel a need to say anything about, or what?

I think so?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My engagement rates are... almost nonexistent.

keii4ii

I TOTALLY GET THAT DOUBT

When my anxiety is bad, it gets... really bad. "Maybe my story isn't worth commenting/ there is nothing to talk about it." I know that's just anxiety, so I try my best to not listen to that voice.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Although I think my audience is just not there? My page-views are pretty low, too, so maybe I just don’t have enough readers to comment (outside of you awesome SF perps)

PEEPS NOT PERPS

MY GOD THIS PHONE

keii4ii

Yeah, my views are fairly low too, considering the sub count I have on platforms

Come on, phone. We're not criminals. (Probably. )

Deo101

Yeah, its just weird when i have like. 1000 readers on tapas and get 0 comments i guess? I do kinda feel like my comic is very.... Its very linear its character driven and people can onky say "aw cute ^^" so much so idk what they would say

Like its legit .1%

keii4ii

hides the bloody knife

Deo101

ITS IN THE FLOWER POT!!!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I was getting about 1k daily views right after I joined SF but now it’s back down to about 100 a day, so shrugs

keii4ii

Views though, it's natural they spike like that even if you retain 100% of the people who checked out your comic!

because typically, people only go through the old pages once

so they give you more views upon first visit

Deo101

^^^

keii4ii

But I 100% understand the worry of "why do people check out my comic and decide not to read it... is there something wrong with my work"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

On webtoons I think I have relatively good engagement for Eryl considering my low sub number. I have about 350-some subs and get an average of 1-2 unique comments per page, though that number goes up when a character dies. (edited)

That’s true! They do get kinda ‘falsely’ inflated when people binge-read archives

Deo101

Most comments i ever got is when I said "tell me your pet names"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Lmao, I should try that

Deo101

And then outside of that when luzio and sage do something cute is the most I get like, organically just frim my content

Amas are second most comments which are again, me starting the discussion

Maybe alk my authors comments should be like "tell me about your fave color" that'll inflate my stats

keii4ii

One person told me they don't comment because everything seems so obvious, and they don't wanna be captain obvious. Which I can respect. But I don't think everything is that obvious if the most common comment I get is "I'm lost"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Hmmmm

Deo101

Hahahahhahahahah

Like "NO PLEASE SHARE THESE THINGS"

keii4ii

IKR

Deo101

Help everyone else out!!!

keii4ii

There is a term in Korean comment section culture

"Konan" (from Detective Konan)

It's a term for commenters who explain obtuse stuff for other readers

Sometimes you'll even see comments like "Hurry up, Konans! I'm too tired to think! Spoonfeed me what happened in this update!"

Deo101

Me reading every comic ever

keii4ii

I NEED A KONAN IN MY COMMENT SECTION

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Honestly I wish western readers did that, but they either get attacked for being ‘Captain Obvious’ or people scream SPOILER!!!! at them

Deo101

I really wish people woukd expkain for me too because then i know some people get it, but ALSO i dont want to explain things i didn't show, accidentally.

snuffysam

one thing i've found that helps with engagement is making sure to include something on the page for people to talk about, no matter how relevant it is. like a while back i had a (in my opinion) fairly boring scene where it's basically "where do we gotta go" "i'm not telling" "please" "ok you gotta go here" so to give readers something to talk about i had one of the characters take a hotdog out of a pokeball and eat it.

keii4ii

There was also this incredibly, incredibly obtuse comic. It had a fascinating hook but then became almost impossible to follow. You'd see comments like "so this is the Forbidden Realm that even Konans cannot enter."

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Hahaha

Deo101

I try to make every page have something, i usually have 3 goals i want a page to accomplish but it's not very... Fun i guess? Its just kibda like "yes this happened"

keii4ii

It's also kinda sad when you DO put something important to you, and nobody says anything (or worse, says "so when is it gonna get interesting???")

Deo101

Yeah...

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So once I spun this theory on a comic by picking it up from context clues. And I was like ‘Hey guys, what if X character is the dragon???’ and everyone was like ‘WELL DUH IT’S IN THE HOVER TEXT.’ I read comics on mobile where hover text doesn’t always work, and after getting sneered at for something ‘everyone knew already’ I was put off of ever being a Konan type again.

Deo101

:(

I never read the hover text unless its by accident I just dont think t

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah. And it wasn’t obvious from reading without the hover text so I was really proud of myself for figuring it out. But it just goes to show how rude commenters can scare away well-intentioned ones.(edited)

keii4ii

aaaugh D:

snuffysam

tbh i'm not sure why an author would put something important in the hover text where mobile readers can't see it. or tbh in blogs, side stories, etc. if it's important to understanding the main story, it should be in the comic.

Deo101

Yeah that's what im thinking... Hover text should be for puns

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It was revealed later that chapter in the main comic, but apparently it wasn’t a ‘secret’ like I thought it was.

keii4ii

Bleeeh, sorry that happened to you. >_< This is why we can't have nice things

Where is the nearest Konans R Us, I want to order one for each of our comics.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah... I’m very socially anxious / awkward so I’ve been scared away from quite a few comment sections. I still read the comics and buy them if they go to print, but a negative commenting experience usually discourages me from ever participating in the discussion.

keii4ii

100% understandable

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Which is why I feel it’s super important for the creators to moderate their comments (or hire a good moderator if they don’t have the time). A lot of comment sections get toxic if the author is lax about fostering a positive discussion environment.

Deo101

That makes me feel much better about the times ive asked people to cut Something out or deleted comments.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I appreciate that effort very much.

Deo101

I worry that its "disengenuous" or something and if someone has a negative opinion I don't want to be like "nope you're ONLY allowed to be nice to me!!!" But it's not good, i don't think, to let people feel safe being mean In my comments.

keii4ii

Yeah, there is being critical, and there is being mean

Deo101

So I rarely do it but I have and I don't feel any guilt over the times i have

Right

keii4ii

Sometimes a comment can tread the fine line between the two and it's really annoying that it's not Obviously, Blatantly Mean

Deo101

Yeah hahahahahhaha

keii4ii

But I try to remember that I too have walked that line unintentionally and obliviously, back when I was younger

Deo101

Right. I have too

I was like "oh man I am so smart and im about ti IMPART MY KNOWLEDGE ON YOU!!!" *Is a jerk *

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

That one comic I was talking about earlier: the author had a hard time keeping up with moderating and eventually took comments off the main site. It was 100% not her fault and she was herself getting emotionally distressed from the amount of negativity in the comments. Especially since the comic itself is really thoughtful and has a lot of messages of acceptance.

Deo101

:(

keii4ii

>_<

Deo101

Uhh but yeah! Does .1% feel like about what y'all get as far as comments:readers goes?

.1-.2

I feel like i have no actual gague for this lol

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It varies from comic to comic (for no quantifiable reason, usually) but that is about right. 99% of readers are lurkers.

Deo101

Dope, I was worried I had like super low numbers when talking with some people and it got me worried about my content

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Plus subs don’t necessarily translate to active readers. A lot of people just never clean out their library after they stop reading something / subbed it to read later and never got around to it or left the site entirely.

Deo101

But I've also just got a lot of anxiety about what im producing and how it's percieved in general

Yeah ik

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I can see people binging my archives from my stats but maybe 1 in 100 or less leaves any comments.

snuffysam

on average, each subscriber to my comic has posted about 45 comments total (which is like 0.07 comments per subscriber per page) if someone clicks on a page (subscriber or not), there is a 0.5% chance of that person leaving a comment.

Deo101

See for me its like. 1 in 1000 leaves a comment...

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

(It’s okay I get anxiety over it, too)

Deo101

Yeah i was gonna say uhhh whats it called

Shoot i lost mt train of thought.

Right. I feel like the longer a comic goes on tbe less frequently people engage

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, I’ve noticed that in my comics, too.

Deo101

Like less readers will have made it to the end, more will be inactive, etc

snuffysam

i've found that my active commenters take a jump in early march (i.e. right after the comic's anniversary), and any time a book ends (since, i guess people like seeing how all the stuff that's happened in the book culminates)

Deo101

Oh that's an interesting note

snuffysam

i suppose that's some other advice on increasing engagement - give a reason for even caught-up readers to leave comments. one thing i've been doing is redrawing old pages and releasing the redraws on anniversaries, which gives reason for people to re-read.

and for end of book stuff, i suppose people are more willing to predict how something is going to end when it's close to ending

Deo101

Hmmmm

I'm taking notes

twothirty

seeking validation through comments is my downfall, because i just dont seem to write a comic that has the type of readership who is into that. What helped was just looking at google analytics and being like "oh right, of course people read this, its clearly here in this data" haha.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

twothirty, same. It's kinda hard to get out of that mindset.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Raises hand I need constant reader validation and get depressed easily when there isn’t. It’s not healthy, but it’s really hard to break out of that mindset.

Deo101

Im not seeking validation through comments, but when i have thousands of readers and get only like 5 it does make me look twice and start wondering if there's something I'm doing wrong.

And yeah it's hard to break out of the mindset

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Me constantly atm haha

Deo101

Especially if you've bee. Hurt in the past and you feel like people secretly hate your work because... In the oast they have

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I wonder if it's actually...a change in how people interact with media nowadays?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oh yeah, definitely, Deo. I got so much negative feedback when I first started posting webcomics and it still sticks with me today.

Deo101

Yeah I've been lucky where people have been mostly nice to me or otherwise just indifferent which makes it so I don't have a super negative experience that my anxieties latch onto

And its STILL hard

Because words of affirmation is my love language lol

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Partly I think it was because I was creating a lot of gender-nonconforming characters in an era when that wasn’t well-accepted in Western comics (reminder that I was surrounded by a veeeery conservative environment at the time), and partly because my skills were just not what they are now. There were a lot of nasty comments from both strangers and people I knew, and it was really tough to work through. I think if I hadn’t had the Tomgeeks forum to hang out in, I probably would have given up.

(For you young’uns, Tomgeeks was a webcomic list site and we had a really tight group in the forums. A lot of that old crowd are now in Spider Forest).

Kabocha

(Sorry, saw the tomgeeks mention! I remember aspiring to be in that group one day, but I was a lil' too much of a noob back in the day.) A lot of media is kind of... Sometimes you need to put a call to action to be like, "HEY LEAVE A COMMENT!" or something - else, they forget in a lot of cases, but ofc that's no guarantee.

keii4ii

Re: people being less willing to engage the longer a comic has been going on, that is definitely a thing

I think it's called archive burn or something

and I feel it too sometimes, as a reader. I feel like I'm not "allowed" to start reading a comic unless I can find a big enough chunk of free time to finish the archive in one session

It's 100% irrational but... it is a thing

I've found that I don't experience it IRL, with physical books. The end of each volume is a really good stopping place

snuffysam

then i suppose a problem is that webcomics don't really have stopping points you can physically see like physical books like when you're reading a book series, you know where one book ends, but when you read a comic you don't really unless you check how many pages each chapter has

and even then it's hard to keep that in mind when it isn't physical

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I definitely understand that feel. It's kept me from doing a lot of the book club comics because I'm like "I got ten pages in, but that's not enough to comment" T_T

snuffysam

maybe someone could program a widget for comic sites that works similarly to the page indicators in ebooks. like "you're 40% of the way through the chapter, and at your current reading speed you have 10 minutes left"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Comic Rocket!

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Does Archive Binge also have a feature like that?

I feel like they might... I don't use those kind of readers so I'm not super familiar with them.

snuffysam

archive binge lists what page you're on and how many pages the comic has, but there's no reading speed thing no

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don't know. I'm technically on Archive binge, but didn't get any subs there so I didn't look into it past creating my listing. I don't use those services myself because I like a nice long archive to work through, but I know that comic Rocket shows you how much of an archive you've read.

snuffysam

also, the thing i'm talking about would be for chapters as well as the whole comic. because if there is a big archive, people like to know how long they have before a good stopping point

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I'm on Archive Binge. I don't think I have any subs either but definitely get traffic regularly as if I did. How even does internet work ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

snuffysam

i guess recently updated?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I usually check out the archive page of a comic to get a good idea of chapter length, myself. So I know if I'm in for 10 pages chapters or 100 page chapters. Plus, idk, I have no problem stopping anywhere and picking it up again later, but I may be a pretty atypical reader.

Lmao, I have no idea how the internet works. I was one of the first people to list on Archive Binge and I have never gotten a single click from it. I get a steady number from Comic Rocket, though.

keii4ii

I wonder if it'd be worth experimenting with chapter numbers? Like, re-number existing chapters like "Season 2, chapter 2 of 15" instead of "chapter 20" ?

Deo101

^ thats a good idea

seeing "chapter 20" makes me as a reader go like, oh god, theres so many,,

snuffysam

^ that's one of the major reasons i label things "book X chapter Y" instead of just counting up chapters forever though adding "out of" is an interesting addition...

keii4ii

I'm nearing the end of season/ book/ whatever 2. I should give this a try

Cronaj

Lol, my books are going to be 3 chapters long each, so I don't think it would make much sense for me XD

keii4ii

Yeah, my chapters are short but numerous, so this might have a different effect than comics with longer but fewer chapters

Deo101

I'd be afraid of saying "out of" cause... well, i dont know how many heheh...

it all gets wacky when it comes time to actually make the thing

snuffysam

i mean, could add 'em retroactively as each "season" finishes

Deo101

oh thats true!

keii4ii

I would probably do "Chapter x out of [REDACTED]" (not that but something similar) when I start posting book 3

Cronaj

Yeah, my chapters are around 35-50 pages, so they're pretty long'

snuffysam

listing how many chapters are in book 3 would kinda spoil a twist lol, so i'll probably only do it retroactively

same lol

and some are 80 pages

book 3's going to have one 120 page chapter which is wild

Cronaj

I was thinking about printing 4-5 chapter books, make it more like a manga-length

keii4ii

You know, some comics (Korean comics do this a lot) do like... Chapter 10: Happy Day, followed by Chapter 11: Happy Day (2), followed by Chapter 12: Happy Day (3)

Cronaj

but full color printing is expensive

keii4ii

Dividing what might have been a single chapter into digestible chunks

snuffysam

i've split "arcs" into multiple chapters before, but unfortunately there aren't really any solid split areas in the chapter in question

Cronaj

and I doubt anybody wants to shell out $25+ on a 200 page comic

This is of course, a consideration for the future, as I don't even have the first chapter finished yet, but ya know

Come next year, I'll have some big decisions to make

@keii4ii Is that a webtoon thing? I've noticed that webtoons have shortish chapters

snuffysam

webtoons an entire chapter is posted at once

keii4ii

It's a Korean thing, which means Webtoons gets some of it

Cronaj

I mean, technically I post my comic in scrolling format, so I consider it a webtoon, but it's definitely drawn for print

@snuffysam, I mean the length of the chapters. The chapters (or episodes) are usually somewhere between 50-100 panels long, which is anywhere between 10-20 pages of a traditional comic

keii4ii

(Tangent, but as a Korean speaker I'm very weirded out by the word "webtoon" in English contexts. Over there every webcomic regardless of format is called a webtoon; I guess it's like anime/manga in Japanese? That in Japan, every animated show is anime, and every cartoon thingie is manga?)

Cronaj

Yeah, that makes sense

In the english speaking world, originally there were comics and webcomics, with little difference between except that one was posted online

but when Korean webtoons entered the English-speaking market, the naming conventions changed

The major difference being the prevalence of scrolling-format webtoons, which made people think that the difference between webtoons and webcomics is the format

but really, it's just a naming thing

You can call a comic a manga, and people expect a black and white comic in a specific style, but really, it's just a comic in Japanese

keii4ii

Yeah

Deo101

I usually just say "scroll style comic" or "page format comic" because im putting pages up on webtoons so it feels... weird to me

keii4ii

That too

IT'S A PICTURE STORY THINGIE WITH SPEECH BALLOONS

Deo101

hahahaha

Cronaj

In the end we are all just children XD

kayotics

this is really late, but i've been getting a lot more comments on my main site lately and I have no idea what I did to encourage that.

Deo101

people caught on

kayotics

That's probably all it is, but it's really surprising that my main site is the one getting more comments, since I wouldn't say it's necessarily a well built comment system? It's the native CMS comment system, and I require the first comment to be moderated

keii4ii

Does this mean I can claim I started reading Ingress before it got famous 8)

kayotics

yes

BUT, I'd say that the estimation of 1% of readers (or whatever the number was) is still accurate.

Deo101

.1% ish

kayotics

I have the most eyes on my comic over on Tapas, and while I do get a handful of comments there, it still equates to less than 1% of the total people subscribed. I'm sure there's a lot of reasons for that (like subscribers who aren't regular readers, people who quit the app, etc), but even the ratio of views to comments is pretty low.

Deo101

yeah I've been noticing that too

I have the most eyes on webtoons but I still have like. a good chunk on tapas and I think those are just more... casual sites

kayotics

yeah absolutely

Deo101

like on comicFury I have way higher engagement rates and i think that's pretty typical cause most of that audience there is also creators

kayotics

I'm sure there's some people who are pretty dedicated on Tapas, but I'd guess that there's more dedicated readers on my self-hosted site, just because they have to specifically seek out the content.

Deo101

^that makes a lot of sense to me

I know a lot of people who follow me on tapas are following 100+ other comics

and i know for SURE I wouldnt be able to take the time/effort to comment on like 10+ comics a day, assuming theyre even keeping up with all thsoe

wow yeah I just checked my list this person has over 6,000 comics theyre subscribed to, and a few have over 500

just on the first page of my readers(edited)

sooooo yeah it makes sense why engagement would be low if people are regularly reading that mant...

keii4ii

I actually rambled about this on twitter recently!

Deo101

and also makes me feel a little bit less bad when people are confused hahahahaha

keii4ii

How I thought I'd get a very small readership who are into what I'm making, but I ended up getting that very small readership PLUS a huge number of people who are just casually reading it

That first expectation was mostly based on my experience with my previous webcomic, but things were different back then. Big platforms weren't a thing, so casual readers were less common.

Deo101

yeah that's really neat

since I've only been making millennium for like... a little over 2 years and it's my first comic, I kinda just started with like 5 mirrors and was like "alright well, lets see how this goes I guess"

I had only ever read one webcomic before i literally have no idea how or why i got so convinced into making a comic

but since I was like 12 years old I was like "hm... I am going to make a comic i think." I just never did any research or tried til recently

or read any. I dont know how this happened

keii4ii

Casual readers vastly outnumbering the dedicated ones used to make me feel like I was doing something wrong, but I think that's just how the times are.

Deo101

Yeah :/ it's hard NOT to notice and feel like you're doing something wrong though.

when its like "okay i have 7,000 subs and got 5 comments" it's like ??? what am i doing WRONG

even though... its nothing wrong

it just be that way

hard to match those two ideas up though

almost went to continue this thought in an entirely different channel.

I think there is also something to be said for people not wanting to repeat a comment

like "oh someone already said what I thought so I'll just give it a thumbs up"

keii4ii

That's what upvoting is for!!!

Deo101

yup!

keii4ii

though, tfw highest voted comments are like "I have no idea wtf is going on lol"

Deo101

YEAH.

also do you ever comment on your own pages?

like not replying to people

keii4ii

I think I did once or twice, back when I actualy had relevant info and didn't have enough room in author's notes or something

Deo101

I've done it a few times, but it's usually kind of to ask questions where I can get replies

keii4ii

I have also seen a pro Korean creator post "first" on their own comic because they were tired of seeing so many of those

Deo101

I did that once LMAO

it's funny when people comment on my comic "FIRST!!!" cause i'm like. dude i get like 10 comments it's not that special to be first

but i'm happy theyre there and theyre excited its kinda cute i guess

keii4ii

Yeah, it's harmless

Deo101

and it's also nice to have people think that they have to race to be first

even though they don't

so it's kind of a nice comment to get even if it's not commenting on my work at all

keii4ii

It's kinda like hitting the like/heart button, just with more HURRY POINTS

Deo101

yeah hehe

oh i do 100% like all my own pages though

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I actually get the most commenters on Webtoons but I’m (fairly?) sure I have more readers on my website.

Deo101

on webtoons, I don't do it on tapas cause you can see i did it LOL

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I think I only ever got one First! comment and that was the only comment on that page.

keii4ii

Hey no shame in being your own #1 fan

Deo101

the one time I said "first!" was cause it had no comments on it for like a year and a hal

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oh no, I don’t like my own pages. For some weird reason I feel like it’s cheating.

Deo101

and hell YEAH! I'm my number one fan so much that i'm making a dang comic for how much I like these characters ;D

keii4ii

I don't feel bad about liking my own pages, but I rarely do it because I wait a bit before even looking at the post

Deo101

inflate your own stats its cool. all the cool kids are doing it

keii4ii

And by the time I look at it, I forget about liking

Deo101

I only do it on webtoons cause I have to manually post there anyways

so i post and its like "heres the page!" and im like :) good job me :)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I might start doing it. XD I get an average of 5-10 likes per page so why not.(edited)

Deo101

I also rate myself 10* or whatever the max is wherever I can

keii4ii

Yeah, and TBH one like isn't gonna give you an unfair advantage anyway

Deo101

^

keii4ii

If you're making a dozen alt accounts to give yourself more likes, now that's a bit questionable

Deo101

yeah that would be not so good

but you're a real account who likes your work so why not!

keii4ii

Yeah!

Deo101

I also honestly kinda like to sub to my own stuff and like my pages partially to make sure it's all working right

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I should probably rate myself 10* bc both my comics got ratings-bombed at one point for really dumb reasons.

Deo101

like to see when the page goes up and everything

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

The ratings have slowly crawled back up a ways, but it’s always disheartening when people attack my comics for stupid things.

keii4ii

Oh, to go back to an earlier point about asking questions to readers to encourage commenting, I might straight up ask next week if my comic is making any sense.

Deo101

ohhhhh man i dont like swingin at that hive lol

keii4ii

I'll have to word it well because I do not want it to be a pity party

Deo101

but i mean it might encourage the people who do get it to go "yup!"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I do straight up ask every now and then. Sometimes I’ll get a pity comment when I do and sometimes it’s still crickets.

Deo101

also I feel really lucky that I havent had anyone be like, mean to my about my work.

I feel like trolls have really gone down in popularity

keii4ii

like even right now I feel like nobody's getting it (except maybe <10 people) so..... I don't think the answers could make me feel worse

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I meant I straight up ask for comments, ugh, I misread Keiiii’s post.

I GET IT, KEIIII

I LOVE UR BABIES

Deo101

oh man, I could never just ask for comments. if I'm feeling really down I usually send it to my friends like "can i have smth nice please" I just get really anxious asking people for things

not that asking is necessarily bad I just, as a person could never do that

also keiiii I havent read it yet but it's on my list cause the way you talk about your work and what I do know of it... seems like it would really jive right with me

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I usually do it along the lines of: ‘If you enjoy this comic, don’t forget to leave a comment! Getting feedback motivates me to keep drawing!’

Deo101

oh okay thats not so bad

oh my god how are the eyes moving

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’m shameless, you can say it

Deo101

I have too much shame probably

keii4ii

It is my anxiety moving the eyeballs

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Give me sone of your shame, it’ll even us out

Deo101

please take it

keii4ii

(anxiety with Nitro powers)

Deo101

NOOO dont be anxious im gonna love it

god that eyes shaking emoji is so great

keii4ii

ikr!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So fun fact- my real face eyes do that

keii4ii

I think Tatsumaki wants to see you do it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It’s called nystagmus and it’s super trippy if you’ve never seen it before!

keii4ii

OH, I knew someone with that condition!

I never noticed anything about their eyes (only heard about them having the condition from talking), because I never met them while wearing my glasses X'D;;

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My eyes just RANDOMLY do it a lot and it really freaks people out XD

Desnik

I've found that comments don't matter too much, but getting a boost from someone with a big following does

and the only comments I take seriously are from people I trust, although I get it: chasing the internet numbers is fun

snuffysam

what do you mean by "comments don't matter" you mean, like, in terms of garnering popularity?

Desnik

yeah, and as validation they can be a bit fluffy too

my perspective changed when I started printing out my work as zines and got people to buy them irl, it was very eye-opening

very few people commented on them online but in person I've found out they're not bad? And one of them got me a lettering job

keii4ii

Eh, I think it's okay to have different goals. To some people, good comments mean the world, and that's totally valid to want that.

Desnik

I know, just stating my pov

keii4ii

I mean that to some people, a good comment is not just an "internet number."

Desnik

fair enough

I believe I allowed for 'good comments' as being from someone I trust

keii4ii

Me, I treasure insightful comments from anyone who's invested in my story. To each their own

FeatherNotes

I have a book that I write them down to give me a lil boost to morale when I need it! i def appreciate the time it took for someone to write something thoughtful

keii4ii

Yeah!

Capitania do Azar

Oh comments are like.. What I like the most! (not all comments are the same tho). The reason I put my story out there is so I can share it and discuss it with people and the fact that a few take some time off their day to actively tell me what they think it's what keeps me moving

eli [a winged tale]

I really enjoy comments too. I always respond to my Instagram ones but not the comic ones mostly because of platform difficulties

Glowbat (Aloe)

I love reading through all the comments- they really motivate me when I'm having a low point and need a pick me up to get goin on pages. I just wish I was better at knowing how to respond instead of just liking the comment and hoping they recieve my telepathic brainwaves of gratitude

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Replying to comments is very hard and I always have the anxiety of "ruining" it haha ;; whatever it is (the person's enjoyment of my work?? who knows)

Glowbat (Aloe)

I feel that- part of me is always nervous I'm gonna say somethin to off put them or smthn.

Though I do try my best to curate comment sections if things are looking like they're gonna get rowdy

keii4ii

YEAH, and/or sometimes you're like "this comment is Awesome and deserves an Equally Awesome reply... HOW DO I DO THAT" and get stuck in a loop

Glowbat (Aloe)

yesss exactly that

I'm not that clever and I require lots of time to come up with anything I'm confident in lol

and by the time I have something cool to say back its been like a week

keii4ii

I made a Discord icon to express my internal response in a visual form to such Awesome comments, but I can only use those on Discord

This one:

Glowbat (Aloe)

Hehe

cuteee

and also a mood

keii4ii

Sparkling tears of happiness

Capitania do Azar

I believe them

Cronaj

Man... I will admit, I barely respond to comments

And that probably sounds terrible

But I honestly don't have time to respond to every comment

As well as the anxiety of not know what to say

It does depend on platform tho

keii4ii

I mean, as a reader I don't expect a reply if my comment is like "ooo nice!"

Cronaj

Generally, I respond more readily to comments on Tapas than on Webtoons, because I only have like 2 commenters at most on Tapas

And usually it's readers who ALWAYS comment, so I almost feel like they deserve a response, even if it's just a smiley face or a "thank you"

keii4ii

But if I've written a long ass essay comment, it would be nice to have some kind of engagement with that. Don't get me wrong, the creator doesn't owe me a reply but it's like... should I ever do this again with this comic. Or is my reply-writing time better spent on another comic

Cronaj

True

keii4ii

I def respect that not every creator has time to read all of the comments, regardless of how many comments they typically get

Cronaj

On Webtoons, I have way more engagement, but most of it is thirst for my characters or talking about the art style

keii4ii

and that not every creator may even aim to get comments

Cronaj

So I don't usually know how to respond to stuff like that

keii4ii

But if that is the case........ I would rather know before committing myself to multiple essay-length comments

Yeah, that is understandable!

Cronaj

I read every comment, but I don't want to respond to all of them

keii4ii

I'm 100% cool with "thicc" comments on my MC's butt or on my tiger dude's legs, but I can't necessarily think of productive replies to those

Cronaj

The only comments I respond to on Webtoons are either a) incredibly funny, b) meaningful and noticing more than the art, or c) a genuine question

Like if someone asks about my update schedule

Or if someone wants to know which programs I use

I had one comment about how good my grammar in the dialogue/thoughts is, and I felt so honored that someone else noticed

Usually I get comments about the art (which is also nice), but I prefer comments about the story or subtleties

keii4ii

It's the best thing when people notice the things that you put a lot of thought and love into

Cronaj

For several years in high school, I played around with the idea of getting a writing degree, so grammar and literary language have a special place in my heart

sssfrs

I respond to every single comment... I get one comment a month pretty much though

When friends or readers say nice things about my comic on any platform I save a screenshot and read them if I start to feel like nobody likes what I’m making

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I do the exact same

FeatherNotes

Its a good practice when things are kind of slow! Or just for that lip morale boost too

[jimlingss]

I can't believe you ended chp 16 of Jp like that...i want to fight 😭

if you fight me, i’m guaranteed to be hospitalized ((look at these noodle arms)) and then who will post the next chapter on Monday? uh huuuh, that’s what I thought. Think twice before you wanna square up. (ง •̀_•́)ง

I am now answering spoiler-y messages below, so beware....

[SPOILER ALERT] 

*SPOILER ALERT**SPOILER ALERT**!SPOILER ALERT!*

Massive spoilers to come, please do not read if you have not yet read Jungle Park Chapter 16. Or go ahead and read if you’re chaotic like that.

Anonymous said: ok but what if oc and Hoseok were actually engaged....

I’m an idiot, anon - I accidentally deleted your ask before I copied it correctly lol oops, but ding ding ding! correct! you’re a winner!! i believe you sent me this message like 2 chapters ago and honestly you freaked me out by how accurate you were. dammit, I might’ve been too predictable, but you catch on quick. sorry i couldn’t answer sooner hahaha i couldn’t risk other people jumping on the same theory. you’re a genius tho, i’ll give you props for it.

Anonymous said: DATED!FOR 4 YEARS! ENGAGED! Omg wow shit really hit the fan like there is no coming back omg Wowoowoeoeoeooew I’m SHOOK like I never expected that like NEVER!!!

Anonymous said:I KNEW IT!!! i had a feeling it was either a really long relationship or they were engaged at one point. TURNS OUT IT WAS BOTH omg gahdhsjxbjsjs I'm so excited to see this all just unravel omgomgomgomg

kawaii-ing said: FhbsjshJuxYhUgrnziVJgdjsbdud JUNGLE PARK CHAPTER 16 JUST WRECKED ME YO 😱😱😱😱😱 HE KNOWS AND SHE DOESNT KNOW HE KNOWS IM SO CURIOUS FOR WHATS GONNA HAPPEN NOW Btw lovvvveeee your writing, thanks for all your hard work boo xxx💜💜

ASDFGHJKL I SAID SHIT WOULD HIT THE FAN AND I FOLLOWED THROUGH, RIGHT?? AREN’T YOU PROUD! THERE’S NO CLICKBAIT ON THIS BLOG HAHAHA 

Anonymous said: omgg 4 years? ENGAGED?? I’m ??? jut WHAT happened

:O :O

Anonymous said: BROOOOOOO! THEY WERE ENGAGED :o *insert Pikachu meme*

pikachu meme?? hahaha is that a sarcastic surprise? so you weren’t actually? lolololol :O

Anonymous said: Ahh I loved jungle park 16!! I'm so excited for the angst to come 👀 is hoseok's car accident related to oc at all?

hmm guess you’ll have to wait and see ((but also just putting it out there that if it was related that would be pretty makjang and lol im not about that life with this series))

Anonymous said: (1)oh holy hell Kina,,,my head’s hurting bcs of JP:16. ENGAGED what?? huh. now its one of my fav chapters, like 4-6 (ah those innocent cute baby steps in hoseok’s&oc’s relationship,,,not THIS). but freaking FINALLY someone spilled the beans. i love this kind of scenes, THE truth revelation. chang’s unaware of storm hes causing with his words, hoseok’s world’s simply crushing, oc doesnt know yet whats happening&dae is helplessly watching from sidelines trying to stop the catastrophe&failing

Anonymous said:(2)thats sad. i kinda can imagine what hoseoks feeling now, plagued w question that almost no one’s willing to answer, that drive him crazy.what happened? why did oc hide the truth? what did i do, how bad did we hurt each other? why can’t i remember any of it fuck. its a perfect opportunity for insecurities&ugly thoughts&inner demons to poison his mind. and oc...her house of cards collapsed revealing things she was trying hard to escape. will she feign ignorance again or will she finally face it

Anonymous said:(3)i just hope that in the end after this storm theyll reach their own peace, whatever the outcome will be. past stays in past, but only if every issue is resolved. otherwise it might return later&be worse than before. it was a great chapter. thank you — chem

THE BEANS HAVE BEEN SPILLED!!! honestly the universe is in chaos right now lol Hoseok’s like the fuck....and oc doesn’t even know lol but yeah it’s definitely a sad situation for almost all parties. there’s still more to be revealed tho, like the actual details of what the fuck went on haha anyways, i’m glad you’re enjoying it!

Anonymous said: AAHHHHH ITS FINALLY HERE!! Thank you 💞💞. Wow it was truly a lot and honestly, I feel kinda scared for Hoseok... it’s crazy that he really doesn’t remember anything and learning all this new information is like being in another word. If this story wasn’t one about love and fluff, it could’ve totally turned into a horror story lol. Thank you again and I’m very excited to see where the story goes!!

a horror? can’t say im very good at the genre but that’s definitely an interesting concept....the more i think about it....like for someone to go through something suppper traumatic and not remember at all and someone appears in their life but it turns out that someone was actually the serial killer? dammmmn that would be really interesting. i digress, thank you for enjoying it. definitely Hoseok is lost, scared, confused.

Anonymous said: SHIT’S 🗣 HITTING 🗣 THE 🗣 FAN 🗣 omg *insert “she’s meditating” “she’s dead” meme* and the fact that this is just the beginning??? how?? what?? i’m honestly so skek for the next chapter like i dont think hoseok’s gonna go apeshit on yn but you never know now do you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ superb chapter for reals!!!! like, all of your writing is great but this chapter?? *chef’s kiss* didnt even know i was an angst fan until this chapter lol sending all my love to you!!! - chanting anon

hahhahahahhahaha there’s a lot more to unravel. now the puzzle has been exposed, we gotta start looking at the details. thank you for the message *throws chef’s kiss back* also welcome to the angst realm lol

Anonymous said: finals starts at the 20th and school ends in the 24th and we're still at chap 1 on our research. Due to stress, i thought, hey, might as well read the latest chapter bUT WHO KNEW IT WOULD BRING ME MORE STRESS. FOUR YEARS?! ENGAGED?! i feel like hoseok right now. You make such awesome stories and worlds. It affects me in so many good ways i cant even. i dont always give you my thoughts per chapter but i want you to know that i scream at every single one of them. have a nice day! - anon h.a.n.d.

oh my goodness!!! good luck on your exams!! hahah im sorry the chapter isn’t very much comfort food and kind of more wild but still happy you enjoyed it! 

Anonymous said: PT. 15 & 16?! WHAT. I COME BACK TO TWO CHAPTERS. HOLY COW. but really, like now that I know what I know, I’m so sad. I wonder what their relationship was like. That’s a lot of time to invest in someone and for it to fall apart like that... I couldn’t imagine what OC had to go through. I’m sad BUT THE DEVELOPMENT IS MAKING ME SO FREAKIN EXCITED. THANK YOU FOR GIVING US SOME ANSWERS ABOUT THE PAST. I CANT WAIT TO SEE HOW MUCH ELSE HE FINDS OUT.

I KNOW RIGHT?? LIKE FOUR YEARS IS A FUCKING LONG TIME. then again that was like 8 years ago. but yeah, it’s sad for both oc and Hoseok, y’know? I’M GLAD YOU’RE EXCITED!!!

Anonymous said: Great Jungle Park chapter! I'm pissed because SOMEONE SPOILED IT and i saw they were engaged before i could even click on the 'read more',,, but great chapter! I wish i could've read it without knowing, it kinda made me sad and it was not as great as it could have been.. @people spoiling, fuck off >:(( @you you're the best writer ily u nice keep going!! Can't wait to have Hoseok's full mind process over how crazy it is he doesn't remember 4 YEARS and an ENGAGEMENT (and only 2 dates huhu)

haha chill, anon. did you actually know that spoilers can make someone enjoy a story more? it’s actually a really interesting thing to google and find out more about. the chapter’s still the same whether you had an inkling of what was going on or not. you still enjoyed it too, right?  :D 

Anonymous said: CRAP OK, well, we knew it was something more than two days, but HONESTLY lol I love how you wrote y/n trying to keep it together. I could feel her fear as she lost control of the situation when Hoseok showed up. Do you think in her mind she even slightly expected him to show up? I'm assuming she's very internal w/ her thoughts/feelings seeing as she doesn't talk to anyone about what happened between her & Hobi all those years ago nor has she dealt w/ it, mostly just avoided it, would you say?

oh yeah oc was on the verge of a mental breakdown when he showed up rofl, damn near scared her. he was basically like a jumpscare LOL. but yeah for sure she didn’t expect him to come. i mean she basically told him and he was like ‘ok whatever’ and didn’t express interest and it’s not like he got an invite so she didn’t know he would actually go out of his way to show up. and yeah i agree, oc’s very internal with her feelings, or at least what happened all those years ago. it’s sensitive issues anyway that she’s left behind. or at least tried to.

tofugguk said: BROOO i LITERALLY— LITERALLY LOST IT. WHEN CHANGSUB DROPPED THEM BEING TOGETHER FOR LIKE FOUR YEARS THEN THE- “You guys even got engaged.” PART I SCREAMED. YOOOOO I CANTTT HANDLE THIS

Changsub isn’t the dumbass that we wanted. But the dumbass we needed.

((don’t you love how oc tried so hard to keep it a secret for like 16 chapters aka like near a year and some idiot comes trapezing in and in his first scene he just spills all the beans??? hahahha))

[fiendfremd]

Okay I'm going to post my thoughts on this last year, upcoming year and upcoming 10th year anniversary of making games behind the cut. I want to be as honest as possible so it might be kinda sad down there. You have been warned.

2022 was a weird year for me. I started off strong and things just slowly got worse over time.

I was invited to the Tiny Games Bundle and had a blast making Tomorrow for Mar for that. I'm ultimately sad about what happened to the bundle bc I still think it's a fantastic idea, it just wasn't in the cards.

Next was nano and starting work on Butterblue. At the time this felt like a mistake, I was coming straight off the back of finishing Tomorrow for Mar and I was exhausted and I knew I couldn't finish it in time and was aiming for a demo.

In hindsight, this was one of the best things I could have done. Honestly, I just really really want to make farming sims crossed with VNs and I knew if I pushed that off any longer I'd be dying. So even though I only finished a demo and the response was pretty lukewarm, I'm glad I finally started on the projects I've been wanting to make for so long.

After nano I had a month off which was good because I then jumped into Otomejam with a team!

Aaannddd this is why this is behind a read more on my secret personal blog lol.

The jam ended with me having a mental breakdown as I sat crying on my garage floor sobbing unable to move as my neighbors were drunk karaoke-ing Country Roads.

I did not have a good time with this jam. It started fine but then took a bad turn for the worse at the tail end of development. I was told "its okay to ask for help!" And then when I asked for help I was ripped into. The whole process was extremely mercenary-esque and that just... isn't really what I was looking for.

I'm in a lot of pain and whatever it is I'm looking for with my creative passions, I'm not getting it from working in groups in gamejams.

I like making games. I like making bad games. I like expressing myself.

I'm not able to make games on a professional level. I am not a professional gamedev, despite the fact that I work on them like 3 hours a day.

This has continuously clashed with a lot of the gamedev spheres I've been in. So many people have approached me and its later come out that they saw me as a "charity case". That if I "just marketed myself more, polished off all these edges and be normal for one day" I would be a Viral Hit.

Uh. I can't be "normal" for one day. The stuff that makes my work so unique is also what fucks it up from finding any sort of mainstream success. And sometimes I'm okay with that. But a lot of times I'm sad not bc im sad about not being "successful" but because so many people see me as that "Charity Case".

If I ever work with a group again for a gamejam I will be ultra clear that at the end of it we will have: 1 finished game, 3 comments, and maybe 20 notes across the social media landscape. That's it. That's what is going to be made. And expecting more than that will make you disappointed and I sure hope you don't end up blaming me!! 💦💦💦

After otomejam I just. Imploded. I worked on butterblue but at a much slower pace. It was good to work on something just to keep my mind off of everything.

It's been hard this year. Coming into 2022 I thought I had a great lineup for the year, and I was able to finish all my projects (with butterblue pending) but it was extremely painful getting there.

Not only was "online gamedev activities" painful this year but "offline gamedev activities" was the worst yet.

I tried to restart my local gamedev club and during one of the meetings there was this guy just GLARING at me the whole time. I had to physically bring the textbooks I was cited in to get any sort of foothold in the room. These meetups aren't for creatives finding like minded creatives. It's for entrepreneurial tech bros to have dick measuring contests.

I once read that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. People show you who they are. My biggest flaw is that I don't believe people when they show me who they are. I think "they can't possibly be that bad...." or "well I did say something stupid, that's why they yelled at me". I keep choosing to go to these same gamedev groups and finding the same people who are the same type of dismissive toward me and I keep surprised pikachu meme-ing. At this point, I've been through 4 different state wide gamedev groups that share roughly the same handful of people.

There's no place for me in the community that exists.

It's hard and I've been fighting it, thinking "well certainly one of these has to work". But it's been 10 years since I first started making games, and 6 years since I started attending local gamedev clubs in my area. I have searched high and low. Through valley and mountain. There is no place for me.

Maybe that's a death sentence. I certainly felt that way the last few years and was so desperate to make anything work. But I'm still alive, aren't I? I'm still here making games.

Maybe it's a death sentence. But it's not a quick death. It's a slow death, carried out over the years by progressive isolation.

But maybe that's also just life.

So as of now, I've stopped trying. I dropped out of all the gamedev clubs I've ever been in. (Save for one I'm waiting until after magfest to leave) Next year... idk. I don't know what my plans are, outside of finishing butterblue and working on a friend's game.

I want to chase things that bring me joy. If everything else is fucked beyond recognition, I at least want to have fun doing it.

I love making art and creative works. I love farming sims and I love strategy games. And there isn't a place for me at any of the "gamedev" tables but I'll make do anyway.

[readbythestarlight]

c2e36

So this will be 10 episodes since the one where we lost Molly. Just throwing that out there.

Also it’s apparently my 9 (NEIN) month anniversary for being subbed to G&S which means it’s also my 9 month anniversary for watching CR and also the show has been going for 9 months as of the 11th so. That’s cool.

I like that jacket, Sam.

Broadway advert lol

“Andrew Loyd Website”

“I could have backed up all night” and “I’ve grown accustomed to her encryption” I’m dead

Okay that was hands down Sam’s best ad he’s so goddamn creative

NEW YORK NEW YORK I’m so excited I loved the last live show

A SLEEVES ARE BULLSHIT SHIRT?!

I need it

Oh wait it doesn’t actually say sleeves are bullshit

I still love the shirt tho and I want one

And the bumper sticker

“It makes it sound bad when you say it like that” guys it WAS bad xD

Poor Caduceus is having an Experience

Cad: “You keep leaving”

Y: “They keep finding me”

Cad: “I think you might have the right idea”

THE FUCK? NO

guys you need to convince Caduceus to sTAY

HE’S ALIVE?!

HE HAS AN AXE IN HIS HEAD

Oh no don’t get Cad he’s sad and tired right now

I mean y’all almost left him behind which was crummy

Caleb really wanted to yank that axe out

Also how does healing work? Like does the guy have permanent brain damage in the are where the axe wrecked now? If it had hit somewhere vital to like, say, memory, would his memory be gone? Enquiring minds want to know.

When Caleb tries to be intimidating it both makes me laugh but also freaks me out a little

I LOVE when Matt has cool props

So does Travis lol

J: “Have you heard of THE Traveler”

Galen: “….Oh no not another one”

Nott and Jester building up Galen like “no no you’re totally special!!!”

“Missed all the major organs” sAM xD

“The Mist…ake” I’m crying

lol promoting this guy to first mate I’m crying

“We got a new pet!”

“Let’s call him Professor Thadeus the second!”

They forgot they had someone tied to the mast too what nerds

They cut up his nice shirt xD

I adore that Travis has totally got the islands and shit memorized so he can be super in-character

Also Cad is being too quiet it’s making me sad

Caleb The Navigator

Captain Fjord

First Mate Galen

Oh oh oh they should have a guest to come aboard and sail with them

Oh noooo they left the magic invisible cart

YES THANK YOU MATT y’all need to talk to Caduceus thank you Matt for pointing out that poor Taliesin has been silent for 30 minutes

Oh no have they somehow fucked over Cad’s mission?

I’m curious about this. Because obviously Taliesin knew this was exactly how the M9 were, so I can’t believe that he would have made Cad to be wholly incompatible with them.

He’s feeling really low and lost I think it’s time for a group hug

Him almost dying really freaked him out (and I think it really freaked Taliesin out too)

I’M HAVING A LOT OF FEELINGS RIGHT NOW WITH JESTER AND CADUCEUS YOU GUYS

Caduceus is the ship’s cook

Mmm Beau is starting to feel like Caleb is trying too hard to excuse the bad things they do

I think the dock thing was a disaster for sure but I don’t think it was necessarily that they REALLY did anything wrong?

I’m not sure what exactly Beau is feeling bad about? Like freeing the genie wasn’t wrong, the boat thing was a mistake built on bad choice but it wasn’t them being inherently bad, and they didn’t kill Algar, so?

Ah, she’s feeling like she didn’t leave Nicodranus better than she found it

I like this whole “why didn’t we try to talk it out first” thing because it’s nice that two of them are having some moral conflicts. I also like what it says about Fjord and Beau as far as character development.

I mean I don’t think boiling it down to “like we were justified in our actions” really covers what Caleb said. He did say they could have handled things a lot better, but that they did what they had to to survive a situation they could have but didn’t handle better.

“I don’t want to drive you guys away” BEAUUUU my heart

Yasha staring off south “looking for a storm”

Caduceus cooking for the group is literally just my favorite thing. They totally needed a group member who could like make them slow down and eat and just like… take care of themselves, even just for the length of the meal.

Beau went from “I’m sorry for killing these guys” to “fuck those guys they’re dead anyway let’s smear their name”

We should not split up

There’s no way any of this could go wrong

Awwww Caleb showing Nott the stars and planets so sweet

SEE Caleb understands that things went horribly wrong. I honestly think he’s just trying to keep their spirits’ up.

Nott honey you don’t have to be okay with him using suggestion, I understand you both admire and need him but you can be mad at him

“Nott is a one-earther”

Have I mentioned how much I love Caduceus?

Fjord’s just like “please tell me you mean you talk to alive grieving people and not the dead people”

Oh no

They’re coming for them

You should NOT go back

Sam is like “why the fuck are we going back” and I agree so hard

Fjord should not stay on the ship Nott is right

N: “Oh, oh, what other languages do you speak?!”

J: “I speak Infernal”

Everyone cracks up

Oh this is going to be another disaster

Although I guess the guard guys wouldn’t be expecting them to immediately come back?? Maybe??

“YOU’RE THE SAILOR GUY THIS IS YOUR WHOLE EPISODE” lol sam

“I’m gonna bake, fuck it” I LOVE CAD

“I look like Captain Crunch btw” I’m crying can’t breathe omg

Except isn’t the captain dead lol

“Unknown do-gooders” well that wasn’t the reputation I expected

UH HEY I HOPE MARION DIDN’T HEAR ABOUT THE BLUE SKINNED TIEFLING KILLING HERSELF

These lies are getting more and more ridiculous

“The little devil girl who drowned a hundred years ago” Taliesin and the idea of a ghost story is just… so perfect.

Beau stop xD

If this ghost story isn’t in campaign 3 someday I’m gonna cry

I’m so glad that Orli is coming along

They hired the tortle! :D

Nott is really being adorable with the “we are a team and you are important” thing. Obvious, but adorable.

Taliesin wanted ghost stories and now we’re getting islands people avoid because strange ancient unnatural stuff

Okay quick aside but this conversation with Yasha and Caduceus makes me think — I love how there’s this group of people who seemingly should have nothing in common, but in a lot of ways they have things they can understand about each other. Struggles they can related to. It’s really nice.

Jester and her multiple message spells lol

I’ll miss you Marion!

Oooo a glow in the water?

Awww Matt that’s really pretty!

“Sometimes the things that are the most beautiful are the things that can hurt you the worst” that’s very profound, Jester.

I’m gonna cry I don’t want Jester to be sad don’t be sad (Laura needs to stop looking like she’s gonna cry because it’s gonna make me cry)

And the way she does this little laugh like she’s trying to brush off how sad she is like STOP IT IM EMOTIONAL.

Marion was gonna leave with Jester’s dad but then he didn’t come back and I’m thinking at some point they had better kick the Gentleman’s ass for abandoning her

The way Fjord is so sweet and soft with Jester is so cute I can’t decide if I ship them or if I just want them to be soft and close but not romantic I think I’d be happy either way but my god Fjord’s being so gentle with her is killing me

“There are vegetarian options as well”

Marius: “Thank you, thank you, it’s very good—they’re crazy aren’t they?”

Cad: “Oh yeah, they’re completely crazy.”

I desperately hope they get attacked by a sea monster at some point

“Captain Tusktooth”

Tiny elf-owl Frumpkin omg

He’s loaning her tiny owl Frumpkin for a week I cry

M: “I poke him to see if he bites me”

Tr: “He’s dead”

“I’m gonna probably start talking to fish at some point in the near future” Caduceus Doolittle

When Nott is sincere like when she’s talking to Caduceus right now is so sweet

I take it back it’s too soon to talk about Molly Sam

“Between you and me, Jester’s a really bad cleric, so…” and Laura almost spits out her drink lol

I want to meet the rest of the Clays someday I hope some of them are still alive

“A sign that there could be, for all of us, another chapter” Nott is getting me in my feelings tonight

Matt: “You get the sense that the fish would be happy to”

Cad/Tal: “I’m a lunatic aren’t I?”

M: “Yeah.”

C/T: “I’m sorry.”

M: “Yeah, no, it’s great! :D”

The fish: “sure, sure, suresuresuresure sure”

Oh godddd sky monster?

Bird?

WHAT IS IT

“Professor Thadeus…?”

Oh. Fuck. Creepy flying humanoid thing.

lol Beau making sure it’s not Yasha

Oh jeez poor Yasha

…Okay Matt that wasn’t cool because it’s past midnight and the windows are open and I’m feeling weirdly paranoid now

HERE WE GO

Harpies omggggg

Caleb’s really not gonna be able to use fire for this without risking the ship

Oh fuck don’t get the deck hands

Okay the sail isn’t that big a deal Jester can probably mend it, so save the deck hand first

Harpies are not sirens that shouldn’t be allowed to do anything

Oh poor Nott

SAVE THE CREW PERSON FIRST BEAU

I love Cad’s beetles

“Snack time” Cad you’re so creepy sometimes xD

15pts of beetle damage hell yeah

Okay I take it back Beau might have done the best thing saving the sail.

Okay this is too easy of a fight tho what’s coming that’s worse

Oh daaaaamn snapped her neck with the sail rope

Caleb Nott this isn’t nice xD

“We saved his life with the power of friendship” I’m crying

F: “How do we prevent further heart episodes?”

N: “MORE FRIENDSHP. MORE FRIENDSHIP.”

Awkward friend hugs are best hugs

Nott please don’t eat harpy meat

Cad’s gonna compost the harpy

Beau is keeping Frumpkin in her pocket of course she is

Poor Travis just like “I DIDN’T KNOW ID ACTUALLY HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO CAPTAIN A SHIP” poor guy

Oh god the ship is gonna sink

They’re gonna end up stranded on the cursed island just watch

Gonna try and block the hole…. with a mattress

I’m shocked they managed to patch it bless Galen for that Nat20

Caleb being clever to save the ship with his magic bubble

I hope they don’t get Orli killed

They gonna get sunk

Oh wait

Does Caleb have to stay inside the bubble?? I hope it doesn’t start to fill too much

YAAAAAS what a good episode!

SO MUCH SAILING PIRATE-Y FUN

Oh please wear pirate outfits I’m begging

I’m so excited for next week