#we could be discussing Marlene v. Kathleen in greater detail

[jomiddlemarch]

“The showrunners have explicitly confirmed that if the Fireflies killed Ellie, the vaccine created from her brain would have cured the Cordyceps pandemic. TV-Joel knows even less about the previous vaccine trials and errors than Game-Joel, but makes the same decision.”

Um, the showrunners may have said that in a podcast or something, but it is NOT explicitly stated in the show-- Marlene makes some kind of assertion about it, but that isn’t scientific proof and there is no way to know if a vaccine is effective UNTIL YOU MAKE AND USE ONE. Before that, you have A HYPOTHESIS. 

There is no explanation as to why they need ALL her brain tissue in order to make this vaccine-- it makes more sense to keep her alive and continue to get more samples to create more vaccines, whether they are just sampling spinal fluid or just trying to get bits of her brain. And wouldn’t it be even more agonizing if the deal was to keep her alive to harvest, slowly destroying her identity/self?

“But there was no time for all that when Joel started methodically blasting his way through that hospital floor by floor, room by room. Okay, there’s the rationale that those Fireflies were armed and shooting at Joel, too. But the doctor that was starting to work on Ellie, the only person known to be working for a world-saving cure, was decidedly unarmed.”

The doctor had three other people assisting him, which could have included nurses/doctors/scientists. Joel didn’t kill them. And let’s be clear “starting to work” means operating on a patient who DID NOT CONSENT TO TREATMENT. That’s assault. And what’s worse is that Ellie probably would have consented (assent based on her age, but whatever) and the Fireflies never gave her that option. And let’s remember, when Joel and Ellie were trying to join the Fireflies, the Fireflies welcomed them by attacking them and basically kidnapping Ellie and preparing to kill her.

“But Joel should’ve let Ellie decide her fate. He stole that choice from her and left her with an unfair emotional burden as he projects his own fears onto her.”

MARLENE STOLE HER CHOICE AS WELL. First, really, in a way that made it pretty impossible for Joel to give it back. It’s all well and good to say Ellie wanted to do whatever it took-- that’s not how informed consent works. Would Ellie have consented to sacrifice herself? Probably? Maybe. She doesn’t get a chance to pull a Spock in Wrath of Khan.