#wby 8

[onewomancitadel]

'You guys would fail the Omelas test' is a really good tag. Making myself laugh

[d0d0-b0i]

i am an nnd shipper not out of desire but out of /necessity/. if i think about them too much my brain starts overheating in agony over whether the writers knew what they were doing or not

[lunaefall]

The Red Flags of Ruby's Suicidality Throughout The Volume

It should be obvious, but this short essay will cover heavy subjects of suicide, so if you're uncomfortable with this subject matter please don't read this.

The first red flag was in episode 4, where Ruby contemplated erasing her current self due to her failures, after talking to her 'past self'.

This gets reinforced by the lyrics of Trapdoor, which is about how worthless and unneeded Ruby feels.

One common mindset among suicidal people is this: what if I'm useless? What if my friends don't need me anymore? What if they don't care about me? What if I'll keep ruining everything? Would the world be better without me?

Suicidal people are usually full of self-loathing and blame.

Even in the episode 7 fight Ruby felt useless after seeing C-PTSD red flags (they're not Neo hallucinations because she didn't see the Schnee manor grounds struggle with hacked Penny). In her eyes, the others are fighting well without her, so she's useless.

Another set of red flags is snapping at your loved ones, pushing them away and driving yourself into isolation. We see ALL these in episodes 7 and 8, with Ruby snapping at her friends and running away, and even pushing Little away.

And on top of it she feels like her friends don't care, the world is against her, etc. which is YET another red flag.

(Massive disclaimer that this is NOT anti WBY and they, especially Yang, tried to reach out to her throughout the volume.)

I'd like to mention that if your loved one attempts and you tried to help but couldn't do it, it is NOT your fault. We're not all experts and we try our best, so do not ever blame yourself for these things.

It's not uncommon for suicidal people to refuse help, and on top of it Ruby has always been selfless to self destructive levels.

And the last thing, her self blame over her loved ones dying. While Penny and Pyrrha were apparitions, they still reflected her self blame. And Little dying? The final straw.

So her suicide attempt in the end was being built up all volume.

All I can say is that I hope Ruby somehow gets rescued and also recovers from her mental health problems because JESUS CHRIST.

This was a bit hard for me to write, especially as someone with BPD and frequent suicidal tendencies. This topic hits hard for me. However, I'm not an expert and this post shouldn't be taken as gospel. There may be details even I missed, so feel free to add your own observations.

And remember that if you are suicidal as well, you're not alone. You'll always have people who care about you, and resources to help out.

[ironwoodprotectionsquad]

While I’d love to hear six hours of discussion, perhaps we can hear your top 10 reasons you like Ironwood? Don’t want you to lose your voice after all my fellow Dadmiral friendo

Look I stream for 6 hours straight some days but that’s beside the point lolz. Also sorry this took so long. Life has been a thing.

1. James feels…human. I know the point of characters in stories is to make them feel alive and to immerse you into the world I know. But stay with me there are just little details like James adjusting his tie and little laughs at R/WBY’s antics that just make him feel more real.

2. James is strong. And not just in the physical sense but the emotional one. Between him in volume 3 holding it together despite the world falling apart around him and him taking on all of Atlas and Mantles hatred and vitriol while trying to protect them is incredible. Everyone hates him despite him trying his best and it’s both incredible and heartbreaking to see.

3. James is compassionate. I am not even slightly referring to volume 8 that bullshit is not canon at all just no. After watching Yang with his own eyes break (who he thought) was an innocent students leg unprovoked after the match ended and his aura was down, he believed her when she said she saw him attack first. He assumed the best of her even when all evidence showed that she was being malicious. Or in volume 4 when Weiss accidentally summoned a Grimm that attacked someone, he stood up for her or after Ruby failed to stop Cinder in volume 3 (? Or 2 can’t remember for sure) and he told her she did well and she took action which is what huntresses do. He is strict but he shows kindness to people.

4. He’s kind of silly sometimes. He’s normally very strict so it makes his funny moments stand out more. Like when he laughs when the girls admit they stole an airship or when he grins at Winters comment about how he couldn’t pay her to smile for the cameras.

5. He’s not a good public speaker. Now I can hear you say “but wait, he speaks publically all the time and while yes he does, he also does the equivalent of error 404 when things don’t go exactly as he mentally prepared beforehand and we see this in volume 7.

When the girls don’t react at all to his announcement that they’re all huntresses now he just freezes because this man needs to preplan everything and he did not have a plan b prepared and panics and it’s so relatable I adore it so much.

6. He’s awkward. While similar to the last point, people can suck at public speaking and still be able to converse well with people in a smaller setting but sometimes James seems to even be a little awkward even in less formal moments.

7. In early volumes he was allowed to make mistakes and still be a good person. I like it when characters are allowed to make a mistake and still be seen as a good guy. People make mistakes and screw up but that doesn’t make said person evil. Sometimes we can’t fix something or stop a bad thing from happening or even make a decision that winds up causing more problems. But the intention of the decision is the important thing. James wanted to protect people in volumes 2 and 3 so he brought his army because he had a feeling Salem was up to something. Cinder used said army to cause even more chaos but at the time the narrative refused to demonize him for this and allowed people to understand what his intentions were. That’s way more compelling than the narrative twisting itself to try and somehow prove the mains are always correct and never make mistakes. Learning and growing make stories interesting.

8. James is willing to make the tough decisions. Time and time again we see James making really difficult calls to try and navigate a war that most people don’t even know they’re fighting. He makes the plans to transfer Ambers Aura to keep it from Cinder. He pulled his armies from the other kingdoms to try and maintain peace, he decided to focus on Amity instead of the wall to try and restore global communication, he decided to try and save who he could when he was put between a rock and a hard place. He made the tough calls and stuck by his decision and that is admirable.

9. James trusts people. After James’s talk with Glynda she took his advice to heart and was more open and honest with people. When Winter tells him something is going on at Haven, he takes her word for it. When Ruby and co lie to his face he trusts their word. He trusts Yang when she says she saw Mercury attack her first during the Vytal Festival. (Despite what the narrative tries to tell us) James gives people the benefit of the doubt and is willing to trust people.

10. James is an incredible fighter even without a typical offensive Aura. Pretty self explanatory but James is able to go toe to toe with some dangerous adversaries and hold his own despite not having a special “super power” like everyone else does. Or even a special weapon really he kicks ass with just a pair of guns and that is so badass of him lolz.

And a bonus more meta point because I want to talk about this so there. But one thing I loved about Ruby and James’s volume 7 fallout is that we can see exactly how and why each of them made the decision they did during that breakdown. On one had we have Ruby who is full of hope still and sees the best in the world. She lost her friends and is still dealing with the trauma of that and doesn’t want to ever lose anyone else again or let people suffer a loss like she did during the fall of Beacon. On the other we have James who is equally traumatized from Beacon but in a very different way. He did his best to fight back against Salem and it was in the end used against him and caused even more pain and suffering. He’s terrified of going toe to toe against Salem again and wants to protect what he knows he can until he knows they are able to take on Salem. It’s realistic and painful and neither side is really a perfect option. It’s a bad situation and we can see how the characters respond to it and it feels in character and real and I wish that we got to see that writing continue into volume 9.

Sorry again for how long this one took! As I said life’s been all over the place and chaotic and it still is but I got a burst of motivation so I decided to finally type this out.

[yinyangofnevermore]

YYON’s favorite parts of V9

1) THE BEES (just like EVERYTHING Bumbleby this volume--cuz they would take up like 5 spots--but ESPECIALLY the confession and KISS)

2) SUFFERING WEISS

3) Super Saiyan Yang “Bitch Fight Me” Xiao Long!

4) WINGS

5) “Then maybe that girl is enough.” my imposter syndrome really needed to hear this one

6) “Mature”

7) Whatever this Sailor Planet Power attack looking thing was

8) LITTLE

9) Shrinking WBY

10) “THE CAT”

(These are sort of in a legit order and yet also kinda not)

[blueskyportrait]

WBY+ Jaune reacting to Ruby minecrafting herself Vol 9 episode 8

[animebw]

Something I’ve noticed about RWDE and the asshole side of RWBY criticism is just how bad they are at reading anything into the things they don’t like beyond their initial dislike of them. They never say “I think X was done poorly, the writers were probably trying to accomplish Y but they fell short because Z and it hurts the show because ABC.” It’s always “X SUCKS AND THE WRITERS ARE AWFUL PEOPLE WHO HATE WRITING.”

Like, perfect example: I’ve seen a lot of people complaining about the pacing in the most recent RWBY episode, and I agree with a lot of their complaints. We weren’t given any time to see WBY’s reactions to Ruby’s choice in episode 8, how it affected them and what they thought about it before finding her at the tree. Hell, the way the start of the episode is written it basically feels like everyone forgets they exist so they can deal with Jaune’s trauma; nobody even really acts like Ruby just, you know, Did That. I get that WBY knows by now ascension isn’t death and Ruby’s probably not gone for good, but it’s still a hell of a sight to witness. And there needed to be, like, two more minutes dealing with that fallout before connecting it to Jaune’s catharsis and their mutual understanding that the people they care for aren’t gone forever. I know RWBY doesn’t have unlimited money to throw around, but it really feels like a critical scene was just cut out wholesome.

But there is a stark difference between how regular fans and RWDE voice these complaints. On one side, you’ve got normal people saying “Yeah, that was rushed, it needed a scene of WBY processing what just happened and it feels kind of callous for them to seemingly get over it so fast.” And on the other side, you’ve got the usual asshats going “OMG YANG HATES HER SISTER AND MILES AND KERRY ARE JERKING OFF JAUNE CAUSE HE’S MILES’ SELF-INSERT AND THEY HATE RUBY AND THEY HATE WOMEN ARGLABARLG.” No, you insufferable nimrods, it’s a very simple writing error, nothing more, nothing less. And you really don’t have to expend much brainpower to take that failure in context and move on. It doesn’t ruin the episode, it doesn’t take away from Yang’s scene with Ruby’s tree form, and unless you’re either stupid or deliberately arguing in bad faith, it’s not hard to take it on its own terms without blowing it out of proportion.

Despite what RWDE would have you believe, RWBY fans are fine with criticism. The reasonable, measured complaints I’ve seen from fans about this episode are proof of that. We have no problem discussing the issues with this show. But the bad-faith, poorly-researched, bias-driven, self-serving drivel that spills from these so-called critics’ mouths has no business sharing the same space as actual analysis. And we’re not going to insult our own intelligence pretending otherwise.

In short: RWBY fans have no problem with reasonable critiques. Maybe all these “critics” should try actually, you know, making some one of these days.

[hadesisqueer]

Just remembered team FNKI (who were still students, not even licensed Huntsmen) was drafted by the Atlas Military to fight in volume 8.

That or they volunteered to fight because being honest, they would do that: Neon and Flynt were among the few students who fought willingly at The Battle of Beacon, instead of running away like most other students did. I mean, they're probably WBY's age, maybe even older, so technically they're legally adults and if they stayed to defend a kingdom that wasn't theirs, I can see them and their teammates volunteering to defend Atlas too tbh. But if they were drafted-- that is beyond fucked. How many other students did Ironwood draft?

Anyway, is team FNKI alive or not I need answers

[bestworstcase]

Do you get the feeling WBY are just dead weight at this point? It feels like they sped through their arcs too quickly and don’t know what to do with them anymore.

i mean this in the most neutral possible way but you know the social phenomenon where people perceive women as dominating the conversation if they’re contributing more than about a third of the actual talking? because we’re constantly inundated by cultural messaging that devalues what women have to say and consequently develop subconscious biases that distort our perceptions because our brains are horrible buggy meat computers?

and you know the thing where if you’re, say, really hungry you suddenly see advertisements for restaurants everywhere, again because our brains are horrible buggy meat computers and we, in a very literal sense, see what we look for?

and you know inattentional blindness?

horrible. buggy. meat. computers.

anyway, the point is this:

rwby v1-8 is structured, narratively, around ruby rose being cast into a role—the hero, the ideal huntress, the silver-eyed warrior, the beacon of hope—and then stagnating there for, again, eight entire volumes of slow boil as the pressure built up bit by bit. and nobody noticed, because ruby had been put on a pedestal and ruby was also really good at acting the part, right up until she wasn’t and the pressure cooker exploded in v9.

meanwhile, ruby’s teammates spent v1-8 undertaking monumental journeys of personal growth and self-discovery across those eight entire volumes while ruby stagnated on her pedestal. and then for the first half of v9, they kept on keeping on and looked back on how far they’d come and affirmed their senses of identity and glanced nervously at the clusterfuck of fears and failures waiting for them back on remnant and then the ticking time bomb of ruby rose exploded in their faces with almost zero warning.

their character arcs in v9 weren’t wrapped up so much as they were unfurled to achieve maximum shredding by the narrative shrapnel of ruby abruptly having, like, eight entire volumes worth of repressed character arc erupt like fucking krakatoa. it only feels like wby getting shelved because it subverts the narrative expectation developed in v1-8, wherein ruby was fairly static (because all of her character development was happening down, not forward) in juxtaposition to the dramatic changes her teammates underwent. v9 is ruby catching up to wby and wby running full tilt face-first into the brick wall of oh shit ruby is not okay.

this is one of the major components of the narrative turning point; all of team rwby is on a more or less level plane now as far as where they’re at in their character arcs, and importantly wby have been made to confront their reliance on ruby and consequent harm. the path ahead is about figuring out the new normal and dealing with all the things that were NOT dealt with in the ever after—namely oobleck’s question (no, that is what you do! i want to know why you do it!) which was evoked but pointedly not answered during the mountain glenn reprise in 9.4.

and speaking of the mountain glenn reprise—to drive this home—remember how such a particular point is made of highlighting that ruby doesn’t get questioned on why she wants to be a huntress? and how she’s consequently left out of wby’s talk about what being a huntress means to them and the gap between their expectations and reality? this divide is echoed in 9.4, of course, through ruby’s inability to articulate what she is or what she wants to be. but there’s a second, more important character beat for ruby that also gets reprised in 9.4

what does a huntress do, the herbalist asks, and ruby says “fight… monsters, i guess?”

i want to be a huntress, says ruby in the very first episode, and ozpin replies, clarifies that, defines it as, “you want to slay monsters?”

and then it took eight entire volumes for somebody to confront ruby with the idea that she’s allowed to be more than that.

[nottoxicfr]

So…

*steeples fingers*

FFXIII Rosegarden. I must know the inspiration aside from FFXIII being AMAZING (and my childhood) and also RWBY for the same reasons.

Scratch that, I must know everything. This is a crossover I never knew I needed.

I’m sorry this took so long! Seriously, my bad. If you have any questions, please tell me. I promise I won't take three months to answer this time

This will be long.

For inspiration, the short story is that I have a lot of Final Fantasy-RWBY AUs, for basically all the Final Fantasy games I think of regularly (7, 8, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16) and even in the scope of Final Fantasy 13, I have a 13-1 and a 13-2 and a 13-3LR AU. I also have a KH AU I've been working on.

This'll just be the Final Fantasy 13-1 AU, though I’ll link the other story details when I post them.

Just to run through a few things, just to set a baseline of how the world works. This is a Remnant where the world increasingly reveals elements from Final Fantasy 13, rather than a true crossover.

For example, the l’Cie and the Fal’Cie are the same idea in concept. The l’Cie are branded servants of the Fal’Cie, mechanical deities serving the Gods themselves. However, in this story, the l’Cie are a fairy tale to even Ozma, which means he only has a strange idea of what they actually are. Only l’Cie really knows what being a l’Cie entails.

A l’Cie is:

Someone who has been branded with a tattoo by a Fal’Cie, essentially the sign that they’ve been given a quest and a vision (a Focus) of what they have to accomplish

The tattoo slowly grows, setting a time limit for their quest. As it grows, the l’Cie also gains the ability to harness magic

However, if they fail to accomplish their task in time, they will be transformed into a monster, a Ci’eth

Someone who is branded naturally attracts Grimm to them, which makes traveling more difficult

Oscar is aged up here a bit, just a year younger than Ruby, and this takes place during a pseudo-Beacon Arc time period.

Oscar is the first l’Cie of the story. His brand is on his neck, under his bandage wraps. His Focus, his quest, is to awaken the slumbering Fal’Cie hidden around Remnant. They were put to sleep when the Brothers left Remnant and, for some reason, they’ve judged it time for them to awaken.

Outside of being a L’cie, he’s just a regular guy at this point and that makes it hard for him to get where he needs to go. For this reason, he hires Ruby to help him get to Forever Fall Forest, which is where he thinks the Fal’Cie he needs to awaken is.

The first arc takes place in Vale, where Oscar’s tremendous bad luck causes a trip that should only take a few hours take several days, which pushes him up the edge of his time limit. Naturally, this puts him in a bad mood, which makes him and Ruby have some friction between them. The situation is somewhat smoothed over when Oscar shows Ruby some magic and he vaguely explains that he needs to get to Forever Fall soon or he’ll die a miserable death.

Ruby distracts him for a little while by talking to him about her Team and asking him about his life. He worked on a farm for most of his life, his aunt died recently, and he’s always wanted to see the world. They fight several packs of Grimm as they hike and Ruby contemplates calling in reinforcements because, for some reason, Oscar insists he’s on a time limit.

They arrive in Beacon where they meet up with WBY and Team JNPR briefly, only to hop on a wagon heading to Forever Fall. Oscar is, at this point, seemingly kind of sketchy. To be fair to him, he’s basically dying.

The arc resolves when Oscar and Ruby plummet down into a sinkhole and find the sleep Fal’Cie of Forever Fall, Behemoth, who brands Ruby simply for being nearby. Now, aside from being paid, Ruby has been dragged into this race to awaken the Fal’Cie, much to the frustration of Oscar. He doesn’t feel comfortable with that, but there’s not a lot he can do but beg an uncaring Fal’Cie to unbrand her.

On the upside, Oscar is given an extension of his time limit and a new vision. He needs to go to the floating city in the sky (Atlas) next, which is where he needs to find the twin Fal’Cie sleeping there.

Ruby is branded as the second l’Cie. She has a brand at her collarbone, hidden under her shirt. Her Focus is to awaken the slumbering Fal’Cie as well, although she also catches further glimpses into the future that put an emphasis on encroaching darkness.

This starts the second arc, Atlas, or the journey to Atlas.

It kicks off when Ruby essentially runs away without telling anyone, under the assumption that once Oscar and her finish their quest, she’ll come back and explain everything. It’s not a very good plan, but she’s understandably occupied by everything that’s going on with her life right now. Ruby and Oscar try and fail to rent a car because they’re both underage. Following this, Ruby tries to buy them tickets directly to Atlas, which doesn’t work because travel to Atlas has suddenly jammed up. Instead, they have to take an indirect route from Anima (the Mistal continent) to Mantle, which takes a few more days but that’s fine.

Yang is, understandably, incredibly distressed that her sister seems to have given up her dreams of being a Huntress to chase after a boy she met three days ago. She reports this to Qrow, who tells Ozpin, who tries to get an understanding of what happened. Yang tells Ozpin about the weird stuff that she heard Oscar and Ruby talking about before, which entails something about Fal’Cie and l’Cie and the Kingdom of Atlas. 

She suspects Ruby has joined a cult and is, again, incredibly distressed.

As stated before, the words l’Cie and fal’Cie are like myths to Ozma. They’re messengers of the Gods and assistants to their angels and, most importantly, they’re almost synonymous with great change. Not good or bad, just big changes in the world. This rings alarm bells in Ozpin’s mind, though not to the point of overreaction.

Ozpin asks Yang to take Team WBY and go after her sister, just to make sure she’s alright and to try and bring her and Oscar back. Ozpin wants to speak with both of them over this supposed l’Cie business. Qrow says he’ll do some scouting ahead to search for them, hopefully, to wrap this whole thing up quickly. He’s not too fond of the idea that some kid swept Ruby away from Beacon.

Ozpin informs his inner circle about all of this, just to keep them updated. It seems like Ruby and Oscar are headed to Anima and then to Atlas, they’re talking about l’Cie stuff which is crazy because, etc…etc… He wants Leonardo to investigate Oscar Pine, he wants Ironwood to try and bring them both in and most importantly, Ozpin just wants to talk.

The lack of details makes Ironwood have a bit of an overreaction. The l’Cie are agents of change in the world and, with the Vital Festival on the horizon, it seems more likely to him that these “l’Cie” are probably going to cause a negative effect. He mobilizes some of his elite forces to capture Ruby and Oscar, as well as putting out wanted posters on Scrolls that these two people are wanted for questioning. It’s a bit of an overreaction, but in his mind, it’s better to be cautious when it comes to mysterious things that haven’t been heard of since Ozma was a child.

Leonardo reports this to Salem soon after, having defected to her not that long ago. Just as troubled by this reappearance of a fairy tale from her childhood as Oz was, she tells Cinder to go find them. She can kill one of them, but she needs the other one to question about what’s going on.

To summarize:

Yang, Blake, and Weiss are chasing after Ruby and Oscar from Vale. Qrow is also looking for them as a bird.

Ironwood told Winter and some of her troops to go to Mistral and cut them off. He also made wanted posters for them.

Salem told Cinder to go find Oscar, who told Roman to spread the word and find them.

Meanwhile, Ruby and Oscar’s air ferry to the port crash lands because, apparently, l’Cie magic disagrees with technology. They have no idea they’re being chased until Ruby sees a wanted poster on her Scroll, detailing that Oscar is a potential terrorist and Ruby is either an accomplice or a hostage. This causes Ruby to freak out and summon her Eidolon, essentially a summoned spirit meant to assist a l’Cie in the quest. She and Oscar have to subdue it before it attacks the people on the crashed ferry, because a freshly summoned Eidolon is naturally berserk.

Her Eidolon is Carbuncle, which basically takes the form of a giant wolf-cat when it is going berserk and is much smaller after being tamed. It has the ability to produce elemental dust from a gemstone in its forehead and is, generally, more of a support Eidolon.

They have to run now because Carbuncle managed to destroy a hefty part of the ferry while it was attacking them, which upgrades them from potential terrorists to probable terrorists, even if it’s only on accident.

This is as far as I’ve written properly because I’ve also been writing a dozen other things. As I said before, I have a lot of Final Fantasy AUs. However, I do have vague details on how things progress from there.

Ruby and Oscar run into Yang, Blake, and Weiss just as they arrive in the port town where they have to board a boat. They end up getting into a fight, Ruby verbally and Oscar physically, because of the miscommunications involved. It’s hard to explain being a l’Cie to someone who doesn’t have the context of apparently sleeping Gods under Remnant. For the most part, Oscar’s part of the fighting ends up being running away and casting magic, which baffles all three of the Huntresses (because of genuine magic) and ends up casting a Thunder (Thundara) spell too close to Blake. This knocks her out.

They board the boat, just barely managing to escape from Ruby’s teammates and there’s a climactic moment where Yang has to watch the boat depart without being able to chase after them. WBY makes plans to keep up the pursuit as soon as they can, with Qrow flying ahead to Mistral.

When Ruby and Oscar get to Mistral, where they’ll board another ferry to go to the north and then get on a boat, there’s a scene that plays out similarly to when Snow rescues Lighting and Hope in FF13.

Winter corners Ruby and Oscar in a plaza with her troops, putting handcuffs on Ruby, only for Yang to show up on a motorcycle and rescue both of them. Blake and Weiss provide supporting fire and they all escape to the rooftops to get away. This puts Mistral on high alert, which shuts down the air ferry, complicating matters significantly. Still, Ruby and Oscar are grateful they weren’t captured. At this point, Ruby’s brand is halfway developed.

They all talk things over and, although WBY don’t necessarily believe everything they’re saying, they decide to help them get to Atlas. Yang also frets over Ruby’s tattoo-brand, which feels relaxingly normal to the group.

While all of that is going on, Cinder begins to make moves towards Atlas, planning to take advantage of the chaos the l’Cie are causing to damage Atlas and capture them. Salem is contemplating what to do about the awakening Fal’Cie, who is purging the overpopulation of Grimm in the world.

Oscar summons his Eidolon, Pegasus, which can turn into a motorbike with wings.

Ruby falls off of Atlas, but is saved by Oscar in a Bullhead.

When they get to Atlas and awaken one of the Fal’Cie there, WBY gets branded as l’Cie. It’s kind of like a spreading curse, and eventually, it will reach JNPR too. That comes later on though.

One of the Fal’Cie is located under Mantle, Vulcan, and the other one is located on the under side of the island of Atlas, Venus. WBY is entirely branded by Vulcan, and Winter and Penny are branded by Venus (though this isn’t something RWBYO is aware of).

There’s only one more Fal’Cie to awaken after this, which is located in Vacuo.

-Oscar awakened the Mistral one

Ruby and Oscar awakened the Vale one

Ruby, Oscar, Yang, Blake, and Weiss awaken Vulcan, which awakens Venus

The last one is in Vacuo. JNPR and Oscar will end up awakening it by falling into a ravine (Woo!)

The final stage of the story reveals that the Fal’Cie want to harvest the collected souls of Humanity so they can use that power to evolve into a God themselves and follow after their creators. They despise Humanity and resent having to serve the inferior creations of the Brothers. Everyone takes a stance on what to do about that, though the main characters decide to fight that. This goes against their final vision, which tells them they are meant to assist in harvesting the souls of Humanity. This is called Humanity's Fall!

Pyrrha does get stabbed in the process and possibly dies, which relates to the RWBY x Final Fantasy 13-2 AU. I love interconnecting these things.

I love talking. If you have any questions or ideas about anything, please ask. Please. Again, my bad. It's been a rough few months.

[tumblezwei]

Are we sure Ruby is going to be more open with her team in V10, or is she just going to brush off her feelings again until she has another breakdown?

Given her characterization in the JL movie, I think the direction they're going with her is someone more open and willing to talk about her feelings who frequently falls back into her bad habits.

Ruby confronted herself and gained new confidence, but it's impossible to completely work out deep-seated issues like that within a few days. So we get a Ruby that has her hope back, but still doesn't know how to slow down.

What's really changed is WBY's understanding of her, and Ruby's willingness to open up to them. They're able to catch on to her behaviors a lot easier and frequently brought up their concerns, yang especially. And while she initially dismissed their concerns, Ruby did listen to Yang and was able to accept her worries and respond to them.

So like, she's not gonna have another volume 8 breakdown, but a single triumphant moment isn't going to erase the past 17 years of her life.

[aspoonofsugar]

Hey Spoon, as someone with highly detailed, well-thought-out metas about RWBY, I would like to ask for your thoughts about two recent trends I have seen about Volume 9. Specifically, about Ruby and her breakdown.

First, there seems to be discussion about Ruby being a huntress as a bad thing? That the hunter system is toxic because it put Ruby in this situation in the first place, with a burden and stress on her shoulders? I don't agree, especially when WBY all triumphantly stated they were Huntress' to their past selves.

Second of all, people seem to have it out for the pep talks that Ruby has been given over the series? That the support and encouragement that Ruby has received over the series has done nothing but make her want to hide her trauma and bottle up her emotions, because people gave her pep talks, instead of directly saying 'Yeah its fine to feel bad'? Like, some of the comments they make is intriguing. Such as Ozpin's statement to Ruby - and from her to Jaune - about how a leader must always be their best self and put their teammates first basically, leading to them eventually breaking down as they are...

But its a bit unfair to say that every attempt to support and encourage Ruby over the show up until this point was worthless and meaningless, isn't it?

Note: I wrote half of this answer before episode 8. I honestly think this still all applies, so I have not changed it. Still, consider I am not discussing that much what happens there. That will have its own meta.

Hi!

Personally, I agree with your thoughts. I understand these takes and tbh I think several people are expressing them in different ways, framings and degrees.

That said, in this answer I am gonna consider them in their most extreme and simplistic form :)

Before I address them, though, here comes a short introduction on character arcs. Skip it if you already know these ideas.

CHARACTER ARCS AND THEME

There are different ways to discuss characters and their arcs. Here I am looking at them specifically from a narrative lens by using theme to classify and analyze them.

Many of these ideas come from @septembercfawkes great posts. Here they are if you wanna read more on the topic:

In short, there are 2 types of character arcs:

The character makes a 180 degree change when it comes to the theme > change arc

The character doesn't change idea about the theme > steadfast arc

If the theme the character believes in by the end of the story is the narrative truth, then the arc is positive, while if it isn't then it's negative.

Some examples:

Ilia starts the story by believing violence is the only way for Faunus to gain freedom, but ends her personal arc by learning this isn't true. "Hate is not the answer". > This is the theme the story supports hence Ilia went through a positive change arc.

Adam starts the story by believing the violence done to him justifies his own violence on others. Blake keeps telling him this is wrong and gives him the chance to change. He refuses and keeps believing the false thematic statement. This is why he is defeated by Blake and Yang, who know trauma and violence do not define who you are (the true thematic statement). > Adam is a steadfast negative character.

Ironwood starts the Atlas Arc by wanting to trust (true thematic statement), but he ends it by giving in to control (false thematic statement). Similarly, he has a good heart and believes in humans, but by the end he refuses his own humanity. > He goes through a negative change arc

Pyrrha starts the story by believing destiny is one's final goal. She thinks hers is to become a hero. She ends her personal arc by dying a hero and choosing her own destiny. > The thematic statement she believes in is the one the story supports hence Pyrrha is a positive steadfast character.

This is the short version >

If you believe something false in the beginning, you have a positive arc only if you change.

If you believe something true in the beginning, you have a positive arc if you hold on to that truth.

This means the narrative is gonna challenge the change characters and steadfast characters in opposite ways:

If you need to change, the story is gonna test you to see if you can change and will punish you, if you don't

If you need to be steadfast, the story is gonna test you to see if you can keep believing into something even when everything goes wrong

Now, guess which kind of character Ruby is?

RUBY IS A STEADFAST CHARACTER

Ruby believes the true thematic statement since the beginning:

"The world can be dark, but there is beauty in it and people should fight to protect it and make it better"

I don't think there is any doubt about this being true in the show. After all, the other MCs grow positively by starting to embrace this viewpoint.

What about Ruby, then?

She is steadfast, so for her the challenge is to keep believing in it even when everything goes wrong. Like at Beacon. Like in Atlas.

But wait! Ruby's viewpoint is flawed and she is breaking because of her unhealthy coping mechanism!

Yes, but this doesn't mean she isn't steadfast. Steadfast characters actually do grow a lot. Sometimes even moreso than change arc characters.

Do you remember Simba from the Liong King? Well, he is a steadfast character.

The Lion King's main theme is the Circle of Life > everyone has a role to play in this cycle

Simba believes this in the beginning and can't wait to be king!

Simba believes Mufasa is dead because of him, so he runs away and gives up the theme. He starts living with Timon and Pumba, 2 outcasts and he even eats insects (aka goes against nature) > he stops believing in the Circle of Life

Nala, Rafiki and Mufasa's ghost remind Simba of his role, so Simba starts believing in the true theme again

Simba defeats Scar and becomes King taking his place in the Circle of Life

As you can see, Simba grows a lot, but he is still steadfast because he knows the true theme since the beginning. It is just that he loses sight of it and needs to re-learn it.

This isn't all, though. What Simba does is more than just remember the theme. By the end he acquires a stronger understanding of it. This is because of 2 reasons:

He adheres to it despite all the obstacles, which makes the theme stronger and deeper.

He has a change arc when it comes to a secondary theme > responsibility.

Simba is initially irresponsible, but by the end he becomes responsible. This secondary theme feeds the main one > Simba's role in the Circle of Life is to be King, but this doesn't mean he will be able to do whatever he wants. Quite the opposite, being King means you have responsibilities. Simba learns this and so he gets to understand the Circle and his role in it better.

Well, something similar is going to happen with our Little Red Riding Hood.

BEING A HUNTRESS

Ruby used to be the embodyment of a Huntress:

Yang: I'm not like Ruby, she's always wanted to be a Huntress. It's like she said, ever since she was a kid, she'd dreamt about being the heroes in the books. Helping people and saving the day, and never asking for anything else in return.

Still, she has right now forgotten what being a Huntress means:

Ruby: Fight… monsters, I guess? I’m sorry, I don’t understand why this matters.

Being a Huntress means to help others, but Ruby answers Herb confusely and mentions "killing monsters" instead. Now, it is not that Ruby doesn't know what being a true Huntress means, but rather it is she has forgotten it.

Why is that so?

It is because the Shadows have slowly been eating at her to the point she can't ignore them anymore. All the stress, the horrors and the grief Ruby has been repressing have engulfed her. She literally can't see anything else anymore. She is so focused on Salem, on how monstruous and scary she is, she can't really see the witch is just a person. Not only that, she is forgetting that the point isn't to destroy Salem, but rather to protect lives:

Blake: Huntresses are heroes. We protect those who can’t protect themselves.

If she stays in the shadows she is gonna turn like Ozpin, like Ironwood and like Salem herself (symbolically). Still, how can she come out?

I think that when it comes to Ruby, she has to learn a secondary theme:

Maria: Interesting… Perhaps there was something that you just weren't seeing?

SILVER EYES - IDEALISM AND EMPATHY

Ruby's main attribute is her Silver Eyes, which are metaphors for themes and inner attributes. So far, I think the Silver Eyes mean 2 things:

Idealism > Ever heard of Wide Eyed Idealists? Yep, those are the Silver Eyed Warriors in a nutshell. The way the eyes work is literally that they reflect the light of the world (like the Moon mirrors the Sun). The SEW can use them only if they believe life is beautiful and worth protecting. This is why the way things are now Ruby is gonna have a hard time using them again.

Empathy > Ever heard of looking at the world through shades of gray? Maybe shades of silver is more accurate here :P But yeah, the Silver Eyes are probably gonna reveal new power and strength once the theme of empathy is gonna be explored more. After all, what does it mean to see the light in the darkness, if not to look at the most monstruous people and realize they are well... people? Isn't it like seeing the person (light) behind the monster (darkness)?

Let's highlight idealism and empathy are 2 secondary themes linked to Atlas (Creation > the Shallow Sea) and Vacuo (Destruction > the Judgement of the Faunus).

Atlas explores trust, which is a declination of faith (Trust Love)

Vacuo is set up to explore empathy - Shade references the shadow, Coco needs to take off her shades to see others properly and Vacuan students throws shades at the Beacon/Haven newcomers

What does it mean for Ruby?

Ruby has been using her eyes by relying on her child-like optimism and hopeful self. Still, this mechanism can't keep on working forever. It is too psychological vexing and simplistic. I honestly think the way forward for her is to develop a new found idealism, which is more rooted into a more mature empathy.

You don't need to ignore the shadows to see the light. Rather, the light found in shadows is brighter than ever.

This is the secondary theme Ruby needs to learn in order to gain a deeper understanding on the main one she already knows, but has forgotten. This is where she needs to go if she wants to re-affirm the main theme.

OTHERS HELPING RUBY

Well, I think the topic is already addressed this last episode:

Weiss: Maybe she didn't feel like she could... Ruby has always been the one to get us through the hard times. We say things like "We believe in you!" "We can count on you!" I know we mean well, but..."

I don't think what Weiss says in the episode means all the encouragement they have offered Ruby was wrong to begin with tbh. It is just that the right words for a specific situation might be wrong for another.

Ruby has been helped and loved by her teammates. Weiss's encouragement helped her becoming a good leader. Yang's love supported her. Blake and Jaune's admiration and loyalty helped her push through in difficult times. It is just that the Ruby right now doesn't need it anymore.

Her own coping mechanism is not functional anymore, which means she needs to develop another one and others need to realize it.

Which leads us to some generic thoughts on coping mechanisms...

COPING MECHANISMS

Coping mechanisms are neither good nor bad really. They are simply mechanisms we come up with in order to survive and push through. They can be functional or dysfunctional. Even better... they can be functional for a while and then they can start not fitting anymore.

RWBY as a story makes full use of this to the point characters' main flaws turn out to be their major strengths and vice versa. This is pretty well conveyed through semblances:

Weiss's semblance initially represents her dependance on her family name. As she grows, though, it becomes symbolic of her own individuality:

And right now, she has discovered a new found strength in her family (team RWBY plus her siblings). The idea that Weiss's strength comes from her bonds with others was never wrong, but initially it is applied in a dysfunctional way. As she grows, she gains a deeper understanding of this part of herself and she gets to shine.

2 Blake's semblance represents her tendency to tun away. Still, as she grows, she realizes that it also represents her ability not to break despite the abuse and the violence:

Not only that, but even her own coping mechanism to run away from an abuser is re-framed. She did the right thing by running away from Adam... it is just she should not let this tendency of hers to control her life completely. Sometimes running is fine, while other times it is better to stand your ground and fight.

3 Yang's semblance represents her tendency to use her losses, her wounds and defeats to grow stronger. It also represents her recklessness and her self-sacrificial tendencies. This is why its use is toned down, as she grows. In exchange, she gains a better understanding of what growing up despite one's losses means:

Yang: No. My losses, my failures. Those more than anything are what have shaped me into who I am, showed me how I need to grow.

It is also probable we will see this new-found wisdom reflected into her semblance eventually:

Ruby is the same... it is just we see her strengths rather than her flaws initially:

She is fast, so fast she even skips grades. She is smart and a quick-thinker.

She is flexible and resourceful and pushes through obstacles.

She is a leader able to carry everyone else...

And yet, she is also running away from her feelings...

And she is also spreading herself too thin for others...

Until she can't anymore...

Ruby, like everybody, is a mix of positive and negative traits. Not only that, but her most positive traits are her flaws and her weakness is her strengths.

She needs to do what the others have done with her help. She needs to gain a deeper understanding of herself and of who she wants to become. Only in this way she can re-affirm herself with a deeper awareness, so not to break down again.

[bushidonce]

Just want to express my disappointment and anger today for a little moment about the episode.

It's about Jaune.

I'M SO ANGRYYY THEY MADE HIM FALL WITH THE TEAM I HATE IT.

My fear at the end of volume 8 when he falls down was "fuck I really wanted the team to be just the four of them. Like this they can reallyyyyy talk to each other and spend time together" but nooooo somehow they had to make Jaune fall with them and I was finally going to accept it because at first it was just "Well yeah he's here to deal with his own problems and trauma"

BUT

Then we get the episode where everyone goes to comfort him over Ruby and I got frustrated but it was still useful to the plot sooo yeah OK I guess.

BUT THE LATEST EPISODE??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

Ruby just ""died"" in front her team. Her partner. HER SISTER. They quickly say "yeah that's how it is. It's up to Ruby now." BUT WE GET A WHOLE ASS SCENE OF WBY COMFORTING JAUNE??? AGAIN??? AFTER WHAT HAPPENED???

That's so annoying.

They don't even really talk about what happened. Or even how messed up it was.

So yeah I'm so pissed they gave so much time and care to Jaune because it's hurting the development we could do with team RWBY.

Also while I do love Weiss. (She's my fav) I think they messed up BIG with her character for this volume.

Her scenes are mostly fun or you can see how she's the one trying to be understanding of everyone's feelings. But they completely forget about her in a sense?? I don't know if it makes sense but I really thought that it could have been a great time for her to speak or confront several things.

1. She lost Atlas

2. She lost her partner (which is very important because your partner is supposed to be for life)

3. She faced death 2 times. And the first one was never mentioned again and that's just weird to me idk.

Anyway, she never talks about these things or just does it vaguely.

I'll stop for today, because overall this volume is incredible and I love itttt, but I just wanted to speak about some of my impressions.

[thesefleetingthoughts]

I think it’s a pretty sad takeaway from V9 but sensible one. While Penny was good friends with everyone by the end of V8 (and I’m a big advocate of Penny having friends other than Ruby), their friendship was too fresh and shallow for everyone else to feel really sorry about this loss, aside from Ruby.

JN_R had proper moments of mourning, and also discussed Pyrrha when Jaune was at a low point in V6 in front of the statue. But they were all relatively close to her before her death, she was a teammate, a student at Beacon, they shared classes everyday and a dorm bedroom. The loss affects the whole team and their bond evolves with it.

Put that in perspective with Ruby mourning Penny and WBY saying almost nothing to her. There was an attempt to reach out and bring Penny up by Weiss but that went nowhere as deep as Jaune’s discussion of Pyrrha with Nora and Ren. Ruby is mourning Penny alone, and the only one feeling as sorry as her is Jaune, precisely because he knows how deep Penny’s connection to Ruby was. When Ruby gives her eulogy while holding Penny’s blade, WBY seem surprised more than anything. They didn’t realize how much this girl represented to Ruby.

I’m not blaming WBY and the rest of the gang for Penny not being close enough to them, I’m mostly blaming the environment she was put in V7-8. In V7 during the truck scene, she admits to Ruby that Ironwood tells her she doesn’t have time for friends. During the montage sequence, we only see Penny when she wakes RWBY up, talking enthusiastically with Ruby. It’s easy to assume Penny had 0 allowed free time and the only occasions where she could bond with others were when she was on duty. Heck, Ruby uses her day off to go see Penny at the rally, presumably because she was on duty with Marrow while everyone else her age were allowed a day off.

Then shit went down and nobody had time to hang out for the next volume and a half. She wasn’t given the chance to bond with the gang beyond a surface-level, at all. The narrative was against her. We see her interact a bit with Yang and Nora in V7, and slightly more in V8 with the whole gang comforting her post virus. One could argue Nora trully started to care about her during this volume and frankly I wanted to see more of that friendship myself. But aside from Ruby and her, there wasn’t a lot of developped interactions.

And now, we’re in the ever after. No Pietro, no Nora, just WBY and a very different Jaune. Ruby’s alone to mourn her dearest friend.

[ironwoodprotectionsquad]

In a better written show, I'd honestly be down for a villain song that sounds totally heroic. It could work really well for a fallen hero or a villain who thinks they're a hero, and the noble lyrics being ultimately at odds with the character and their actions could be well done irony. But... RWBY is not well written. In fact, it's so badly written, that I genuinely can't tell if Hero was meant to be a villain song or not. Are the lyrics about saving people meant to be ironic, considering his later actions like trying to bomb Mantel? Or is it meant to be genuinely heroic since, like you said, Ironwood hadn't actually gone through his fallen hero "arc" yet (And some of James's more over-the-top villainy in V8 very well might not have even been planned at that point)?

So, like so much of RWBY, it's a potentially neat idea that either it wasn't well done or was just wasted, and it mostly just makes me think of ideas for a more interesting story.

In certain circumstances I could really see an ironic hero song really working either via misdirect with the lyrics or outright lying in the lyrics. But I need to emphasize under certain circumstances as even if R/WBY was a better written show…I don’t see something like that working.

For R/WBY this kind of song with double meaning lyrics or misdirect or even lying wouldn’t work because the nature of the songs in R/WBY is…complicated. Take for example bmblb. This song was released for the volume 4 soundtrack and fans got really excited thinking it meant the bees romance was canon. The writers came out and threw Jeff under the bus saying he was just trying out a different style of song and that it wasn’t based on anything or canon. Then volume 9 came out and then bmblb part 2 came out implying that bmblb was in fact canon all along. 

Not only that but what the songs well are is also constantly shifting like The Truth from volume 8 is more generally describing Cinders life while other songs are said to be what characters are thinking internally. Regardless even if the R/WBY songs were consistent in what they are narratively I still don’t think this kind of song trying to trick the audience would work since the characters aren’t even singing the songs. At least not in something like R/WBY. 

A character not singing a song meant to manipulate the audience doesn’t work in most things because it’s just the authors messing with the audience which is frustrating and pulls you out of the story and leaves a sense that the writers just are not competent writers since they have to resort to lying to the audience directly to make their story work and leave the audience unsure what even is canon or not. That’s not fun I most stories. However in stories where the audience is known by the characters to exist is when this type of manipulation works wonderfully. 

Take Doki Doki Literature Club, Monika not only knows about the players existence, but she is actively trying to earn their affection and make them fall in love with her. Her either singing a song or playing a song like this to manipulate the player themselves makes sense because she the character knows she’s in a game and knows there is a player watching her. Her being the one to manipulate the player is different because rather than it being the writers taking a lazy approach to trick the audience, there is a valid story reason for it to happen.

But using a heroic song to trick other characters in a musical I’d argue is also a valid approach. Having characters use double meaning to trick the character (and yes for a time the audience if we’re exclusively following the journey of the main character) into thinking they are good and when the truth is revealed the double meanings and the lies in the early song come to light is also a good way to do it. 

Frozen almost pulls this off with Love is an Open Door wherein it’s later revealed Hans was using Anna to steal the throne. I say almost because the writers use cheap tricks to lie only to the audience to sell it rather than just not showing us his POV and us trusting him like Anna. The scene I’m talking about is this scene in particular. 

There is no one here to see him besides the audience. The only people this smile is for us for the audience to trick the audience and make them think he is genuinely a good guy. If the scene had just cut away the second he fell in the water it wouldn’t be lying to the audience but because this moment exists the writers have gone from characters manipulating another character to the writers lying to the audience to make the betrayal more shocking later, when him just being awkward and nervous around Anna would have been fine because again it’s a character manipulating a character. Cut out this one little shot and “Love is an Open Door” works as a hidden villain song disguised as a love song. 

Sorry that was a long tangent about another almost works scenario so let’s play around with an example that could work hypothetically. Let’s pretend that Wreck it Ralph is a musical. And say King Candy sang to his subjects about how he “built the perfect kingdom” or something like that. We think initially it’s just him being over the top theatrical but then when the twist is revealed we know he really did rebuild Sugar Rush to be his perfect kingdom so he could always be the favorite racer.

Okay it’s not a perfect example I’m just mostly trying to get the point across as I am not aware of a movie that pulls this kind of trick off well so there isn’t a good example to show. Regardless Hero just doesn’t work.

To your question about what Hero is supposed to be. From my understanding of the writing it was supposed to always be a heroic song. The writers said initially that the ending of volume 7 was supposed to be vague with no real right or wrong side and that it was supposed to be unclear. They also said that James’s writing in volume 8 was changed and made more intense mid 2020. This is notable because volume 7 finished airing early 2020 so they would realistically know what fans were thinking and whose side they were leaning towards. Hero would have long since been written at this point which is why it makes sense it started off genuinely as a heroic song and once the writers didn’t like how many people where siding with James so they changed his arc in volume 8, the fans scrambled to try and somehow justify this radical shift in characterization. 

Maybe it would be less frustrating and I could roll with the double meaning theory about Hero if James’s arc in volume 8 was actually a well done fallen hero arc but it wasn’t. It was a rush job to try and make the mains look better that turned into an extremely ableist and harmful arc that butchered a well written character to prop up their poorly written mains.

But really even in a better written show their just isn’t any lines with actual double meanings that work for a fallen hero arc. Some people argue:

There’s no sacrifice that I won’t make

Is supposed to be about James’s willingness to sacrifice Mantle to stop Salem but….at the end of the gravity fight we see James willingly sacrifice his other arm to stop Watts. We see the payoff from that line immediately after the song ends with James literally searing the flesh off of his own arm.

Another section I see used sometimes is

I will fight

For you no matter how I am despised

Portrayed as cruel and heartless, I am might

I am power, I'm due process, I will smite

Our enemies destroy

Mettle I'll deploy

But generally it’s parts taking out of context to the narrative these lines are painting. I’ve seen people argue the part:

I am might

I am power, I'm due process, I will smite

Our enemies destroy

Mettle I'll deploy

Is James talking about enjoying destroying people ignoring again the context and the logical reading of some of the lines. The lines start off by talking about how he’ll fight for you, no matter how much people hate him and think he’s a monster. The line “I am power, I’m Due Process, I will smite” is likely a. Playing off of the name of James’s weapon (due process” and B. Trying to find a rhyme for “might”. But playing devil's advocate for a second here, even with the reading of James is ready to smite his enemies….saying he is ready to smite the seemingly endless army of soulless man eating monsters…well I struggle to see it as pure evil given said soulless nature of man eating monsters driven to destroy humanity. 

I also see people argue that “Our enemies destroy” is James thinking he would destroy his enemies which doesn’t make sense with how that line is, to me it reads as “our enemies destroy everything important to us” and the next line “Mettle I’ll deploy” is in response to their enemies destroying. 

Sorry this ask got insanely long I just had a lot to say hehe.

[citadelofmythoughts]

Had a thought a little while ago about Ruby lashing out at WBY+J. 

I mean, some of it was her just exploding because she had to let all the feelings she’d been suppressing out but when you look at the conversation she had with Little in Ch 8....

I think part of it was deliberately pushing her friends away so she just wouldn’t be responsible if something happened to them.

When you consider that, it makes a LOT of sense why Ruby went for their most vulnerable points.