#was treating them like a queerbait I guess

[shurup-overt]

the terukane development still blows off my mind because what do you mean akane considers himself telling teru to go away while he's on a date with aoi an ooc thing. I grew up in a time when "hearing sorry from you is creepy" was legit his most normal and calmest response

ashamed to admit but I'm still there. my mind is still there. and then I watch in pure horror how akane caresses teru's back

[fvckw4d]

The concept of queerbaiting annoys me. I was told that it refers to a work of fiction pretending to cater to a queer audience but then pulling back from it to avoid alienating homophobes, which is an incredibly specific thing. But a lot of people seem to think that it instead means "any time there's any gay subtex, metaphor, or ambiguity" or "whenever something from 1995-2012 was being a normal amount of homophobic for the era."

[killing-hannibals-body]

This may seem controversial:

Agatha All Along ISN’T queerbaiting.

Look. I’m 31. I’m old by tumblr standards. I’ve been through fandom after fandom.

As a lesbian, I’ve chased many shows hoping for gay representation only to be treated like an idiot. “How dare you see something that isn’t there?” “You’re delusional and perverted.”

I was burned by SwanQueen where they established clear sexual tension, advertised it as such then ridiculed you for seeing it that way.

I was obsessed with Rizzoli and Isles, only for them both to end up with men, and, once again, ridiculed for seeing anything but a platonic, heterosexual friendship:

I adored Killing Eve, but for the first couple seasons, they denied and tried to subvert any expectations that there was any sort of lesbianism going on.

Agatha All Along isn’t that. Sure, we didn’t get a kiss. Sucks, but the season isn’t even half way over. We’re not being mocked or chastised for “seeing something that isn’t there”. It’s there. We see it. The creators see it. How far it’ll go is anyone’s guess, but to treat it like bait is to forget what actual bait is.

Not to sound old and jaded, but you guys don’t know queerbaiting. Amazing for you! But don’t accuse a show that’s doing something special and controversial as being bait because you don’t see tongue.

[scarefox]

Haven't watched anything KristSingto recently but he's right

You can think of fanservice what you want. But the moment you want to police or censor it, it turns into something really problematic. And this stance comes from 2 or even 3 different oppinioned sides but they ironically melt into the same outcome.

But at the end of the day most people forget / ignore, regardless of anything, fanservice still helps normalising public queer affection. And let's be real, most of the stuff in those stage and event shows are that... a show or even a performance! Do you protest at your local theater when they have queer characters kissing? Do you notice how this sounds in a sentence? Yes actors are real people and not characters but especially BL actors & idols still perform stage shows and kind of have a public enertainer persona. You notice how different they are on stage vs. in their personal live streams + nowadays most actors are even very honest about just doing fs for show & fun and often genuine (platonic) affection towards their acting partner but don't pretend to be actual dating (and the ones who do will most likely not lightheartedly come out with it like that... apparently there are exceptions but I have not enough insight on them to judge). You should watch some serious interviews or live stream (translations) of your favs now and then maybe to learn more about them and the industry, they are more than just pretty faces... Actors in just my bubble who talked open about the fanservice topic as far as legally possible at least: JamesSu, Perth Nakhun and I guess we can count Pavel and Nut as well.

What fans make out of it is a whole different story.... and one of the reasons people want to shut down fanservice as a whole. But imagine how lighthearted, fun and easy going this whole thing could be if we didn't had all these toxic naive fans who think every interaction is proof of actors dating (or worse: cheating) in RL. That mindset of "we are BL fans of course we are delulu" is not a joke anymore among some of them. They srsly take pride in that... babes you are part of the problem, stop encouraging it!

Then on the other side, being critical of some of the practices of the industry is one thing but it should not lead into backwards queer censoring... but that's what some are swaying to with their "real people queerbait" agenda or getting the cringes when (samesex) people interact romantically or erotically during live events (that's a bit of a you thing my dears. not necessarily in a queerphobic way but in a purity / shy way and that is a you problem to deal with not anyone elses problem)....

And a lot of people don't even understand or get what most people criticise about fanservice and just jump onto the ban-fanservice train. Without understanding the nuances nor the actual industry circumstances. Like one main argument here isn't even true. Lot of people assume actors get forced into fs. Which is not true (source: one of Perth Nakhuns Q&A vids, the 2. vid i think). BL actors usually know what they get into by entering the industry, decide with eo how much they want to do. Now that can still cause internal personal conflicts like one going over board or not playing enough but that's human miscommunication. Or companies can still be bastards but it's unfair to generalise it over the whole industry when we nowadays have companies who give their actors that freedom.

There are still some points to criticise, definitely. Like I personally dislike how MCs and sponsors sometimes treat actors during events or how fans scream at every little move or glance like crazy.... But the topic is a bit more nuanced (as always in this world) than how most people look at it. I just mean it really always sticks out when you talk with people about their reasons why they are anti fanservice that they just repeat after another with no sources or without actual up to date information or only look at it from one side.

I personally am in the middle. I only like fs when the actors have fun with it and are transparent about it. In the end it comes down to actors consent what they want to give to the audience (reason why it annoys me when people write "i feel like i am interrupting something here / am intuding their privacy" the actors consented! they want you to watch if you want to see it! consent babes! it is fine)

(when i see someone coming in with "but Krist is a homophobe" I will bite you. I am not even his fan and already researched what happened back then when I first saw those accusations when I got into BL 2021ish. It is really not that hard to look up the source and reports of people who were live pressent at the time to understand what went down back then. Ya know instead of believing rumors that twist and lie for rage bait)

[styrofauxm]

So you know that thing that's floating around about Vivziepop not wanting to ruin people's fun by confirming Alastor's romantic orientation?

I was going to make a venty (untagged) post about how that's kinda queerbait-y* and arophobic. But then I was like "you know what, I should check the source because I don't remember the exact quote."

And it turns out I never actually saw the exact quote. Nor did anyone talking about it bother to include the context. And while I don't think either removes the queerbait-y* or arophobic aspects of the statement, they certainly make it better than it initially seemed to me.

Here's the stream (linked to the proper place): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5ONxBZoR0A&t=3793s

And here's a loose transcript (it cuts out some less relevant statements in-between but loses almost no context as far as I could tell): https://www.reddit.com/r/HazbinHotel/comments/mle06e/alastors_sexual_orientation_aromanticasexual/

*I am keeping the actual word on the shelf, I just don't know a better one to use here. I think what she said is SIMILAR to queerbaiting but is NOT queerbaiting.

With the queerbait-y stuff, it still maintains the "aromantic people, tune in, this character may or may not be aromantic. We'll tell you eventually, just keep watching!"

With the arophobia, it still maintains the prioritization of shipping over representation, and treats aromanticism as a subsect of asexuality at best, and as flat out not an orientation at worst.

I don't think either is as bad as my original perception, but they certainly aren't good. And keep in mind, this was 3 years ago, any number of things about her beliefs could have changed in any which way since then.

But what gets me is that Vivziepop absolutely did not say that everyone should just let everyone else have their fun. What she said was to have fun and be respectful of his orientation and the people that are represented by him. She says that multiple times.

I'm not feeling this generous, but I guess you could say the fandom had some kind of Mandela Effect over what she actually said.

I think it's more likely that a few people, maliciously or not, spread the incorrect paraphrase without context, and the rest of the fandom, reasonably, believed them.

Anyway the lesson here is check your sources before you contribute to misinformation on the internet.

[straightbaittournament]

(shaking, through tears) may the best bait win! propaganda under the cut:

mulder and scully:

Infamously treated and teased by showrunners + writers like how a gay couple would be baited and like a gay couple in general, although eventually they do kiss and have a son (although that falls through and they become kind of divorced)

during the entire original run of the show i'm pretty sure chris carter would have said they never had a romantic relationship (they had a baby without ever having had sex!) however in the revival their sort of ambiguous What Are We deal was made a lot more explicit so feel free to veto based on these grounds LITERALLY INVENTED 'SHIPPING'. YOU'RE WELCOME

while i'm... pretty sure they get together eventually (i've only watched a bit of the x-files), from what i've heard they invented the term "shipping" because of people arguing over whether they would/should be romantically involved, so i think they should be included, for fandom history reasons if nothing else

they are a man and a woman who don't get together until ridiculously late but are hilariously devoted to one another, clingy, self-sacrifice-y, and also Forehead Kisses

They’re together but they’re not they love each other but barely know each other

clara and twelve:

their relationship is heavily romantic coded, but is never explicitly confirmed as romantic or not. the queerbait thing of teasing them on socials but never paying them off in canon applies here! also secret love confessions by way of double entendre or omission

they "arent romantic" but obviously they are

They are a man (I guess?) and a woman never get together but physical contact is filmed with such tension, there's jealousy with one member's significant other, "do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference," "I'm changing history to save Clara," "run you clever boy and be a Doctor," "people like you and me, we should say things to one another," "I'll be the judge of time," "If you love me in any way..." okay these all have context but trust me it's Insane

They never get to be together and in their last episode together, Clara presumably confesses her love to him and WE DONT EVEN SEE IT. like immediately after he gets his memory wiped.

[edwin-paynes-bowtie]

I have so many wonderful things to say about XO Kitty season 2. And I will say them. All my underlying complaints really stem back to a single issue, but I feel like right now I have to word-vomit the Problem because it's, like, tickling my brain.

I do not like the way queer characters, plotlines, and concepts were handled in XO Kitty season 2. At all.

To be clear - this show is not queerbaiting. It is about a bisexual girl (Kitty) who ends up with a boy who is a perfect match for her (Minho).

What does bother me is that after the Kitty/Yuri kiss and its fallout, Kitty's queerness is never addressed again. Not even in passing! Praveena declares she's no longer interested in her, and we never hear anything about girls or bisexuality surrounding Kitty again.

I also really do not appreciate the way that Yuri was treated. Yuri, a main character and a main love interest in season one, underwent some insane character assassination this season. All of her sharp personality traits were immediately gone, and she was made a very flat side character right off the bat. But the nail in the coffin was her cheating on Juliana with Kitty. What the fuck? Juliana was her every thought last season. She was miserable without her. She went to great lengths to talk to her and to get her back to KISS. But the second Juliana is back, and their relationship is generally good!!! ...She cheats on Juliana, her girlfriend of a year, with Kitty? And for what!? She gets completely sidelined after that! She and Kitty are hardly even friends anymore! So they broke Yuri and Juliana up for nothing, and ruined Yuri's character for nothing.

Also, it SUCKS that Yuri has no friends, no girlfriend, and now her family's being sued and she lost her money. The show just kept beating her down. It was lowkey ridiculous.

The only good thing I'll say about that kissing whole situation is that Kitty wasn't exclusive with Praveena. I don't really think Kitty did anything morally awful, and we narrowly avoided the cheating bisexual trope - even if I didn't love it.

I also want to talk about Juliana. She was one of my favorite characters in the season, and the way that she just totally dropped off the grid was mad. She and Yuri broke up, we saw her like three more times, and at the end she's in a weird pair the spares relationship with Praveena. It gave the vibes of "hey.... they're both lesbians.... they should know each other." Not great.

I also personally really did not like Q's new love interest. He was juvenile and a complete and utter asshole. He underwent very little character growth. He and Florian both suck and Q could do better, but he's been the quintessential GBF trope since day 1 and I guess can't branch out into his own character.

I have to wonder what the fuck the writers were thinking when they botched every queer storyline this badly.

My theory is that the writers saw Netflix cancel tons of top-performing queer shows (like my beloved Dead Boy Detectives) and panicked. Then they just removed all traces of queerness as much as they could to avoid cancelation.

But, whether or not that's true, it's very annoying and feels like a massive L for me as a bi woman.

[p0uncivall]

Moominvalley season 4 spoilers!!!

Okay ignoring what was pretty much queerbaiting and the weird lack of Snufkin

I literally couldn’t be happier about Joxter as a character. I’m so bummed about him and Snufkin not meeting, especially when they were teasing that the whole episode, but I loved everything else about him for every moment he was on screen.

I love that he wasn’t just sleepy Snufkin. He had this proper stoner thing going on which genuinely feels like appealing to the amount of weed jokes the fandom makes lmao. This dude is the guy supplying the hattifattiners what they need for their dubstep con raves.

His design has so many cool unique elements, with the darker nose and his more cat shaped eyes. And I love the new details like the patches on his coat.

And the songs he sang? Oh my god. The fact he wrote a song about mymble. Made me think of that one animatic with the song I love you too much.

I like that little my wasn’t made to have a moment where she forgave her mother or everything was sorted out, she’s never made to think that how her mother treats her isn’t unfair.

I said I was going to ignore the queerbaiting but I find it very funny that the first closest thing to an explicit gay relationship in modern moomin was Sniff and Stinky and Mrs Fillyjonk and Mymble. As much as I like Snufmin I never actually thought they’d make it canon as much as it would be nice, I just hoped we’d get more resolution with how Snufkin and Moomin’s relationship was progressing, even just as friends.

It felt like they still very much had the issue of Moomin being too clingy and not understanding Snufkin’s boundaries, and Snufkin trying to push Moomintroll away in response. They just kinda left it there with that. It’s like they feel they got enough Moomin and Snufkin last season so now it’s time to ignore them.

I very much liked how much Snork was included and that they continued to show his neurodivergent traits without it becoming his whole character.

This is a very out of order rant because I’m tired but going back to Joxter and Snufkin not meeting, and Little My basically figuring it out. It’s at least nice to know they’re not just completely ignoring the family thing, and that all of them just had no idea. And I imagine their plan is to keep things like that for future series. The thing about Moominvalley is that one of the things drawing viewers back is the inclusion of references and the returns of old characters. And the Moomin franchise is so huge that they’re sure to make another show that they can save those moments and characters for.

I guess my take away is it’s not all it could have been, but that very well could be on purpose, and I’m not afraid that we’ll never have a chance to see these things again.

Implied aromantic Mrs fillyjonk was also wonderful

[absolutebl]

Do you feel like shows that deal with idols not being allowed to date or actors having to hide queerness are a critique of that, or are they using it as a plot device because it’s a handy obstacle for love stories?

To me it reads as a critique because it seems so cruel and unfair to performers. But maybe it’s kind of a *shrug that’s the way it is* to folks actually in Thailand/Korea/Japan.

I have a similar feeling when I see unreasonable parents who expect their offspring to obey no matter what. Are the shows interrogating a cultural norm of unquestioning filial obedience or just using it as a plot point because it’s super relatable to audiences? Probably a bit of both, I guess…

Happy Pride!

Let's rehash BLs and QUEERNESS!!!

I think it depends on the point of view of the show and the perspective of the writer(s) and director(s). Those that have a queer lens are often having a dialogue with the audience on these subjects. Those that don't have any intentionality to their queerness are often using such things as performative plot devices, heart string manipulation, and for the vicarious titillation of a (mostly) straight audience.

So yeah, grey area.

I do have a bunch of stuff on this topic here (quite a bit is older before the big queer-up of the BL genre that has been happening over the last few years - see top trend of 2022) (and here's me talking about normalization in anticipation of this trend).

[tubbytarchia]

Apparently despite the length I somehow did not make my point clear. Nor was it "hatemail" as that other person stated, but I already predicted that given given the double standards of tone interpretation I see here. This is unrelated, but sometimes seeing how you but especially your followers talk about things I disagree with makes me completely reexamine the things I do agree with, and if theyre equally as unflattering an interpretation of other people's opinions and words. If I've also ever used "can't someone have an opinion" as a way to dismiss other opinions.

I wasn't criticizing you for having criticism, or telling you not to analyze things deeper. Nor did I say anything about whether you maintag or not? I follow you for other things I'm not a Lizzie stan who dug too deep and hate you for having your own opinions. I did acknowledge that there are and always will be people who examine things much more shallowly than you or I and so there will always be some work out there that your critique applies to wholeheartedly, because it would be disingenuous not to. There's always going to be people who don't examine the ideas they like too closely. Usually, personally, I find those are people who also heavily project onto the characters so I find myself not nearly as comfortable casually lumping the misogyny card onto them with mcyt, because its their personal passions and experiences projected onto a character that is already much more closely tied to a cc's personal experiences and choices, and for me it falls into a similar vein as how you can't say a real person living their real life is queerbaiting. There's a level of personability and depth, due to, ultimately, being the persona of a real person, to these characters that your critique often ignores where you treat things like theyre a problem of their writing rather than a feature of their character, and the fanworks that incorperate those things.

I was saying that Lizzie does not get boiled down to one note as often as you portray, to where it deserves to be the only thing about her talked about rather than actually talking about her. and that her relationship with Jimmy is not based in misogyny or flattening of her character into "big sister", as their relationship gets boiled down to within these critiques. That the people who complain about such fail to go on to create anything to fill the gaps they supposedly see from their once yearly skim in her tags after a big event that involved not just her, to instead simply complain about thoughts and works that exist not existing. And the way you talk about it feeling dismissive of all of the care and thoughtfulness and fanworks that are more numerous than you portray as existing when talking about her. Your critique feels shallow, is what I mean, viewing things in isolation with no context and premade assumptions about others thoughts and feelings.

I also am not particularly happy with how you talk about the subject of seablings being an empires 1 topic, either, mainly because you talk about it in the exact way that is what I am talking about as hypocritical. Many things are elaborations based on events of previous series incorperated into a larger narrative and dismissal of the way their narratives are connected in secret life as misogyny and a detriment to their characters is picking and choosing that this specific history between these two characters is outdated and not as relevant even while utilizing events and dynamics that happened in tandem without question.

You can have your opinions and critiques, I'm not trying to take that away from you and I know it won't change your mind so I'm not trying to I guess. Especially not while surrounded by people who dismiss other opinions and critiques as hatemail and not as smart and feeding into the idea that someone who disagrees just hates critique in their happy fandom space. I just want to talk aboit my own opinions and how your critique makes me feel, which is that you don't really talk about Lizzie at all except to complain that other people who feel passionately enough about her to create and think about her character don't do so in the way you like. Which I suppose is entirely within your right to do, but you do it so dismissively of any other takes with an entourage of anons declaring your opinion correct and laughing at any other opinion, it's downright frustrating.

I guess this is probably getting too long to be coherent again...

I don't condone what that anon said as although they were undoubtedly referring to you, whose input I don't regard as hatemail, I have tended to receive blatant hate of no substance and didn't think anything of it when replying to it in a casual manner. I would appreciate if there weren't in-fighting between anons for lack of a better word and maybe I should have left that ask unanswered

For that much I'm sorry as I feel like your response has been fuelled by it and you're being very defensive and dismissive. You continue to both make assumptions about me and accuse me, just as you accused me of policing people, which is the only reason I brought up maintagging and reasoned with you why that's not the case. My opinions on my blog are very clearly stated to be just that, and filterable. I can understand that you are genuinely frustrated, which is why I want to give you the time of day and respond to you honestly, as this is the type of engagement I encourage. But if it is genuine criticism or discussion you wish to have, then frankly speaking, you accusing me of being a fake fan because of how you assume I absorb, interpret and create for media, in a way that goes against your belief of doing so correctly (in order to be able to call oneself a fan), which is incredibly subjective, has no place in this conversation and I would hope you have it in you to agree

Additionally, you fault me for levying criticism on the fandom for how they treat a character, because those same fandom goers imprint on those characters. And you don't draw total distinction between character and creator, but I do. I understand people do imprint on characters and especially creators, but please understand that that is not my problem. I think it's absurd to alleviate something of criticism just because of its nature or because of what it means to someone, if that were the case, we should be letting people get away with just about anything including genuinely harmful beliefs and practises, and I don't see why you or anyone else should be able to draw a line in the sand as to what can be criticized and what cannot. Even so, I have done nothing to go out of my way to police these people. If they see and are hurt by the way I speak, as are you, you have all the tools at hand to filter and block me. The same way you might be frustrated by the fact that I do not draw connections between characters and creators - we are inherently different in our interpretation in that, so please just block me if you don't like it instead of trying to explain to me how I'm doing it wrong as opposed to you. The same way you are frustrated that I, as many others in the fandom, don't view Seablings as having relevance outside of ESMP1. It is incredibly invalidating of you to call that train of thought shallow and prop up your own as somehow righteous

I've remained clear about my stances whilst also remaining respectful and as in depth as I think the subject matter warrants. I'm not going to continue to reason with you as to why I think one or the other because I know that you will continue to disagree, and my opinion will remain unchanged. I understand your frustration and I wanted to try and cap this off politely. If you read this as being dismissive or bullying, then I don't know what you expect of me. To reiterate: we are going to have to disagree, and I'm not going to hear you out any longer

[bbgianstan]

omg your reply about how ian and anthony were one of the only duos that never really much into the whole "queerbaiting thing" like other youtubers, it's so true. Like a lot of people say that now they do but honestly is still very like not that much compared to how it was in the 2010s with other youtubers. I also always saw that tension with ian and anthony and anthony has admitted that he wasn't that affectionate because they knew each other since hey were 12 so he was always reluctant to be affectionate with Ian because he had learned to keep his distance because of how middle school was for them. What I do think it's interesting is that Ian actually seemed a bit taken back by that answer, he said that he just felt weird holding hands with anyone wether it was boy/girl he didn't care, it wasn't about gender it was just that Ian felt that, holding hands wasn't platonic at all. Idk it's interesting, I guess a lot of that weird tension but also just them having personal issues.

Right? They were always more the "no homo" type of friends, like you say, Anthony saying it always felt weird to do something as innocent as holding Ian's hand, in particular, is really telling to me. And let's not say they don't play into the gay act. They do. But with other people. Iancorn anyone? Ian/any other man that isn't Anthony? Anthony/Joven? And that tension between them only got more evident as time passed, affecting even the relationships with the other's gfs at one point. So whenever they do something considered gay now, I go a bit crazier, because it doesn't feel like an act. It feels like they are slowly feeling more and more comfortable to show each other an affection that they always sort of held back from, but secretly always wanted to give each other. Like Anthony baby talking Ian, for example. It comes out so naturally now that it gives me impression that he always wanted to do it. I feel like they always wanted to treat each other more affectionately, but again, that weird tension, which is the real reason I ship them, held them back.

[olderthannetfic]

So, a creator for a canon whose fandom I am begrudgingly in - I stick to fic and avoid people-intense places due to some toxicity issues - recently clarified that as he modeled a character's behaviors on an aroace, not-interested-in-sex friend of his, he views them as aroace (with the same non-interest in sex).

Fandom is unable to be normal about queer rep. You can guess what followed: accusations of queerbaiting. This drives me nuts for a number of reasons. One, the show is done and was done over a decade ago. It's not baiting anyone to tune in. It's over. Two, this was not said to boost merch or get cred with the fandom or something. Someone asked why the character never got a love interest or references to past romances. The creator answered. And three, perhaps most importantly, queerbaiting is when the queerness is not canonical. You can absolutely see the queerness in the character and how they're written, to the point where even conservative dickweeds in the fandom can't find anything that contradicts the character being aroace.

Hence my ultimate question here, which is why are people mad at this? I'm aroace and I'm thrilled. This character has a whole happy, contented life where no one treats him like a freak or like he needs sex and romance to be happy. He's got character development, he's got an arc, he has best friends - the writers didn't treat him differently than any other character. To me that seems ideal. He was written as well as everyone else. He has as much of a rich interior life as everyone else. And we didn't have to see any jackassery from other people pushing him to be "normal".

I know fandom getting mad at queer rep has always been a thing but I don't get it. But since you're very well-versed in fandom's behaviors and I'm not, maybe you can shed some light on this? I see some people going "but this isn't every ace's lived experience!", which is true, it's just... he never said it was? He just showed a single character's lived experience, no one ever said, "this is the epitome of what it is to be aroace!"

I don't know when this idea sprung up that rep that doesn't show all possible ways a person can be a queer identity is bad but I don't think it's productive. Instead of being happy for what we have fandom just gets angry. What's the point of it all?

--

Oh, come now: I think you know what most of the objections are really about if you think about it:

And, in general, the less minority rep there is for a given minority, the more people nitpick what does exist to death.

[forevertrueblue]

Speaking of the Loki fandom...a few comments.

Let me preface this first point by saying I love this ship and support people shipping it. But that said...if you actually thought Lokius would be explicitly canon then you were playing yourself. Last season they said it wasn't romantic, and same with at the beginning of this season; they weren't queerbaiting you like a lot of other creators tend to when a ship like this gets popular. Yet somehow, some people were legitimately convinced it was gonna happen in a "big twist". (I feel like I hear a lot about this in fandoms with non-canon M/M ships but has that ever actually happened? I guess in Supernatural, kind of?)

I don't like ship wars or pushing the idea of them or whatever but I wasn't expecting Lokius fans to come out of this more satisfied than Sylki fans, on the whole. I was legitimately worried Mobius would be sidelined this season in favor of a giant Sylvie/Sylki-fest (more on that ship in a minute) but I'm pretty sure he got the second most amount of screentime (he was third last season) and he seemed to have more of an arc and impact on the story than she did.

Another preface: I love Sylvie and Sylki. Them being together at the end wasn't make or break for me, but I am annoyed their romance wasn't directly discussed by either of them and makes me kind of annoyed at all the effort I put in at the conclusion of Season 1 to understand and appreciate the ship (because from the interviews I just kind of assumed it was a fact of life that they'd be endgame and wanted to be able to embrace it best I could). THAT SAID this season proved to me that my theory from last season, that the Sylki shippers only looked "good" compared to the Lokius shippers because they were the ones getting what they wanted, was absolutely correct. I'm annoyed people, especially a certain writer, egged that shipping on so much via social media because it felt kind of like baiting (I may talk to him about this, idk yet) but I'm seeing some pretty vitriolic comments towards him and the other creators and that's just not cool. I hate to say "it's just a show" because I get very upset when people say that sort of thing to me...but I'm not spreading that kind of hate towards REAL PEOPLE sooooo

The vast majority of Loki fans seem to be either hyperfocused on shipping or Kang. Little to no in between. And that makes it hard to have actual conversations about the series with most people.

And finally, I'm sick of certain fans calling myself and others dumb for our feelings on how things played out. No, I wasn't just waiting for a happily ever after, I was open to a lot of things. Really, I think I've been very mature about the whole thing and I don't appreciate people treating me like I'm stupid over this. I'm already hurting and you're making it worse.

[epickiya722]

Random ask....Do you think anime like Free, Sk8, Jeweler Richard and Yuri on Ice are queerbaiting or at least have semi canon couples? I mean I love those anime series and my fav otps are from those series, but what do you think? Also, why do you think shounen series like bnha, haikyuu, and naruto has the largest shipping fandom compare to canon romantic BL series?

Hmmm...

Okay, off bat, I'll say that "queerbaiting" is a lose term to me. People use it so much that most of the time I feel like they say it just to say it. (Not directed at you, Anon.)

And I actually never watched Jeweler Richard. I've heard of it, but I didn't watch it... because I forgot about it. I also, never watched all of Free!

Now to answer the first bit... I'm leaning towards "no" here.

Queerbaiting to me is if the promise of some queer rep happening is marketed just to draw in the audience and then the people who made said show switches it up at the end like "oops sorry, actually these characters are totally straight and they're dating people of the opposite sex" and erase all that rep or just never touched on it.

Yuri On Ice, I wouldn't consider it queerbaiting because we get some same-sex romance. It happened. Even if the gay romance in there was used in marketing, it still happened. Sure, it did lure in the audience, but promises were not broken. Yuri and Viktor are a thing.

Same for SK8, I don't consider it queerbaiting either.

BONES never promised us that Reki and Langa were going to be a thing by the end of season 1. We also gotta remember that SK8 isn't a strictly romance. It's a SPORTS anime just like YOI. So the show focused more on skateboarding and the purpose of it for the characters than actual romance because it's not necessary.

It's why I really disliked how some people treated the ending as if it was the worse thing in the world. Maybe it's just me, but I didn't get mad at it because I just wanted my boys happy and skating together again.

Just because Reki and Langa didn't kiss, it didn't mean that we were queerbaited. They weren't promised to be a couple. Surely implied, maybe yeah, but explicitly promised? No.

Also, just because a couple doesn't kiss at the end doesn't mean they're not canon. A ship doesn't have to kiss to be canon!

Kida and Milo didn't kiss at the end of Atlantis: the Lost Empire, but guess what? People were aware they're a couple by the end of it. They held hands and that was it.

Kissing isn't the only romantic gesture. There's hugging, cuddling, holding hands, words and even jumping in front of someone to protect them.

And just like how all that can be romantic, it also can be platonic, too. It depends on the context of how that action or those words are being used to show romance or just platonic feelings.

We really don't know if a relationship is a canon romantic one unless it's confirmed.

Back to SK8, at best, the relationship between Reki and Langa is an explicit close one. They trust each other, they want to skate together, they're comfortable around each other, they are friends.

And with a season 2 apparently coming, Reki and Langa may just happen. It was probably built up the way it was for a chance to make it canon, just in case they could do a second season. But just in case they couldn't, they ended it on a safe note, let the audience interpret how Reki and Langa feel about each other but made it clear that they are indeed close.

Now for the second part!

I think those animes have the largest shipping fandoms over BL series because they are some of the most popular animes. A lot of romantic series slide over the radar because series like BNHA and Naruto have a wider reach. There's games, cons where the VAs show up, movies, collabs, etc. They're also the "less risky" series.

People wouldn't clutch their pearls if someone says "Oh this anime is about superheroes" or "this anime is about ninjas".

However, if you say "Oh, this is about a romance between two boys", you're probably going to get someone homophobic.

I also figure because even without gender or sexuality involved, people don't care for an actual romance anime. With a romance, it's like... because it is a romance you know who is going to be with who. You can be happy with the choices, but maybe the thrill isn't there. You know the clichés and whatnot. The characters are the same characters you see in any romance.

However, let's say with BNHA. There's a thrill to shipping... I'll take DabiHawks off the shelf for this. There's a thrill because DabiHawks, it's a variety to it. You don't get the "boy next door" or "the better guy but not the choice". You get two enemies that fans turn into lovers in their fics. People dig the enemies to lovers trope and characters like Hawks and Dabi have fans drawn into the series. They're "cooler" than the male love interest of a romance.

And fanworks are there to create something that you can't possibly get in canon.

Some people may feel this: what's the point of writing a fic of a ship that is already canon?

[dervampireprince]

Have you ever thought about doing Sherlock? A bit taboo i know, old fandom and such, but I feel like you’d be brilliant at it. Just a suggestion from having some nostalgia here, non the less hope your having a wonderful day.

TW: homophobia, racism, albeism (specifically against autistic people), transphobia, mention of jokes about rape

if you don't want to read this entire answer because the TWs are uncomfortable for you, then tldr no because the show contains bigotry and the main cast are gross/have said gross things. i don't want any arguments about the show, i don't think you're a bad person if you like the show, i just personally am very uncomfortable with it and with the lead actors so i will not make any fan content of it and would ask for no one to request this fandom again. i can not like the show and you can like it and we can get along these things can coexist.

all of this post is /nm , i am not angry at you anon, i am just explaining why i have the feelings i have about the show which you do not have to read if you do not want too, no hard feelings.

full answer under the cut, read at your own discretion:

i assume you mean bbc sherlock since you said taboo? and if so, the answer is no. and i don't think it's appropriate to call sexism and homophobic 'taboo' like it's a guilty pleasure. i'm not going to voice for a show that is at worst bigoted and at best a really bad adaption of sherlock holmes as a character.

this isn't meant as a mean attack towards you. when i watched the show when it came out i was a young teen and didn't see the bad in the show. and then when i was older and i got more familiar with the writers and uncomfortable with them i looked back on the show and realised how terrible it was. and look it's fine if you like it as an adaption of sherlock or like certain scenes of the cinematography or acting performances that's all fine. but.

but. hey maybe you're saying 'taboo' because you just think the show is cringe because of how the fandom acted or because of superwholock so sorry to burst anyone's bubble but this show and the people associated makes me so uncomfortable and angry so sorry you opened a can of worms.

irene adler's story is adapted terribly. in the books she's the only person to best sherlock. in the show? she doesn't. she loses. and then is a damsel in distress. oh and also is treat with such lesbophobia as the male writers have her be gay, literally say she's gay, but then falls in love with sherlock cos i guess she just hadn't met the right guy yet. that's such a gross narrative. and the queerbaiting. i know that word gets thrown around a lot. let me remind people of what it actually means. when a work of fiction purposely baits that characters will be queer while knowing they will never make the characters queer. so many people make comments within the show about john and sherlock being boyfriends, john being gay, etc, etc, while the writers knew they were never going to make them gay.

also the actor who plays has said disgusting things about autistic people, the actor who plays john has a consistent history of making racist and sexist jokes as well as joking about rape, and his ex wife who played his wife mary watson on the show is a terf. so. i mean she's claiming she's not a terf but she's following so many terf accounts and you don't do that by accident, said she supports 'legitimate trans people' which is a transphobic phrase as theres no such thing as an unlegitimate trans person, and doesn't think trans women are women. so. and the head writer, also has a history of sexist comments but when i searched to see if i was right they're mostly old so maybe he's grown up since then idk i don't follow him and don't want too.

anyway if someone is interest in a critique of sherlock in terms of how it works as an adaption hbomberguy has a video called 'sherlock is garbage and here's why'. it doesn't talk about the actors and what they've done or said, it's purely pulling the show's writing apart and how it adapts the characters and while the title sounds click baiting it's a really informative and well made video essay.

this is not meant to be me saying if you like sherlock you're a bad person, because i don't believe that. this is me sharing my stance on the show, as someone who as a teen was a big fan but then grew up and reflected and more stuff came out about the people involved. if you can still find things to enjoy about the show despite what i've said, go ahead. doesn't bother me. but don't ask me to make fan content for the show.

[cblgblog]

Hello, hello 🤗

For the violence ask game could you please do: 6,8,16,18. 😊

My friend is back, yay!!!

which ship fans are the most annoying?

As a whole? Stuckies, oh my god. I know there’s a couple outliers here, on this blog, who might see this and Stucky’s your jam, and if you’re still here that means you probably mind your own business and quietly roll your eyes at most of my shipping content. Not talking to you guys. Talking to Stuckies who have entirely fanon dynamics/interpretations of Steve and Bucky and their relationship, but treat that as canon. Talking to the ones who hate on female characters for…existing, I guess. The ones who call you homophobic if you don’t share their ship, and especially the ones who have no fucking clue what actual queerbaiting is.

common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

Iron Man 3. The Mandarin twist (sounds like a cocktail name) was brilliant, fight me.

you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

Pretty much everything to do with fanon! Bucky and canon! Tony. Just, everything. The whole thing. Both of them. All of it.

It’s absolutely criminal that the fandom has been sleeping on…

Stegginelli (Steve Rogers/Peggy Carter/Angie Martinelli). But of course I’m gonna say that because I want more content for my specific fixation that like 2.5 other people care about. So get on that, someone, please.