#w*ncest shippers don't interact

[mulderscully]

SUPERNATURAL | 1.01

[chocolatecakecas]

why are you hiding the answers you don't like on a poll 😭

okay so

1) i'm not hiding any of the answers on my poll. i don't even think you can physically do that?

2) if you're referring to me discussing my annoyance/disgust about w*ncest shippers and even j*hn/dean shippers interacting and leaving tags on my poll....well yeah. i have zero tolerance for *ncest.

so once again. any *ncest shippers/supporters, unfollow me immediately.

[jinkieswouldyoulookatthis]

Tags from a post...

#i feel like we shouldve explored that sam and dean were soullmates more #bc what is the narrative trying to tell us about soullmates in this world #w*ncest shippers dni

First off, fucking just type wincest, what the ever loving fuck is up with the goddamn asterisk??? Are you that immature that you can't write out the actual word that is bothering you? This isn't a platform that censors like Twitter or Facebook or TikTok or whatever. People here use the actual words to blacklist and block things they don't want to see and if y'all don't use the actual word then those features do not fucking work.

Second, HOW ARE YOU GONNA HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT SAM AND DEAN BEING SOULMATES IF YOU EXCLUDE THE FOLKS WHO MOST ACKNOWLEDGE THEY ARE SOULMATES???

Third, this one is petty af but, it is spelled soulmates. One L, not two.

Finally, yes, I ship wincest, but I am completely capable of having a fucking conversation about them being soulmates without making it any weirder than the show does on its own. In canon, Sam and Dean are soulmates who happen to be brothers which makes the relationship platonic... that's a huge part of the weird beautiful tragedy that is Supernatural. Because it's this deep intense thing that is not romantic or sexual and that's awesome.

But, apparently, I'm not allowed to participate in the conversation because I understand the flexible, malleable nature of fiction and transformative works.

tldr: If you can't type the actual word then you shouldn't type the fucking word. Learn how to tag in a way that allows those of us that you don't want to interact with to block your posts.

[marlborodean]

supernatural + faceless

2x02 "Everybody Loves a Clown"

[divorcedcastiel]

the actual not a joke autisticandroids callout

w*ncest and pr*shipper content + sexual assault (fictional) under the cut. all images already have descriptions.

im not going to formally speak to everyone bc i dont care to. i will also not be nice because i dont care to.

this is not about an "accidentally liked" (no evidence it was accidental btw <3) post. this is about aa running in the satanisnotapogostick - openpolarsea circle, both of whom are open proshippers. there are other things as well but the main thing to say here is aa, at the very least, tolerates and befriends people who are openly okay with wincest or people who actively are proshippers.

this was the main point of both original posts - to tell mutuals and followers about it, and make sure people can curate their own online experience. as the posts spread to people who had less information on why they were made, people began thinking this was a witch hunt because neither post contained proof, because that wasn't their function. neither were callouts. because of the reaction to those posts i figured, uhhh, fuck it, ill bite the bullet and make their dreams a reality. this post is a callout.

if you want the aa callout over them fetishizing male pregnancy, or if you want the callout over aa saying dean being a serial killer was a gay allegory, then you'll have to find someone else lol this is tiring as is.

to know why the aa stuff is so bad you have to know about both other people mentioned above.

openpolarsea/savoryoatmeal:

openpolarsea and savoryoatmeal are accounts by the same person. they have, as late as november of 2021, posted links to their adam/sam fics, the links to which have since been deleted on tumblr but still remain visible on their ao3, savoryoatmeal:

these fics are not "exploring dark topics" they are romantic exchanges between brothers, under the excuse that "the cage fucked them up so bad they fell in love with each other." this ao3 is completely separated from their main ao3, goodbyechunkylemonmilk, and the ao3 that contains these fics was not listed on their account anywhere before today or yesterday.

aa is openly friendly with this person despite their recent obvious proshipper content.

satanisnotapogostick:

satanisnotapogostick may be a url you know from the "wincest press release" post pictured here with notes:

if being "neutral-positive" on wincest is not enough for you then that's on you i guess. there is no ambiguity about this. satanisnotapogostick is a proshipper and people who interact with them know and tolerate this.

satanisnotapogostick is mutuals with openpolarsea and approves of their incest fics.

they also agree with an anon they got that anti proshippers (who are a group consisting of mainly survivors!!) are somehow worse for survivors than wincest shippers:

autisticandroids:

autisticandroids has not made many of their own original posts on the subject but the big indication of the tolerance of w* was this:

this post has been called out front to back already for being very weird and w* adjacent but it was never retracted or deleted.

aa's main interaction with this stuff is in the notes of other peoples posts. they are seen often in the notes of satanisnotapogostick, including all of their posts being positive about wincest and proshipping content, like the image above, where they state theyre "not an adjacent [to wincest], but [they're] not NOT an adjacent" which is a pretty loud outing of being w* adjacent (and look! there's openpolarsea/savoryoatmeal). there is no ambiguity! why else like a post, or reblog a post, or reply to a post with a positive reaction if you don't agree with the post? why continue to follow someone who says they're tolerant of or positive towards incestual relationships if you disagree with it?

conclusion:

to reiterate: this isn't about liking a post, and this isn't about respectful portrayals of real life horror. this is about these people happily creating and consuming content that is romanticizing it. and this is about aa actively participating in that and then not even giving a shit about the things they're accused of.

if the reaction to the original posts had been something along the lines of "oh, if i've given anyone the indication i'm pro wincest, please let me know the accusations, and i'll clear that up." or even the more aggressive "i hate wincest and proshippers why is someone saying this about me" it would have been different. the actual reaction and flippant dismissal of everything makes it clear they don't care about proship content being wrong and ACTUALLY harmful, and don't care much to clear anything up.

as one of the original collectors of proof that spurred both original posts, and as a survivor, and as someone who was groomed using proship content, and as a person who actually knows how to respectfully tackle dark themes in media, none of you care about survivors beyond cherry picking one or two who agree with you. your performative "but this takes away from survivors!!" stuff is a common proshipper dogwhistle and means absolutely nothing besides trying to excuse your own behavior. you are disrespecting us. you are mocking us and you are sexualizing and romanticizing what we went through. you are normalizing our trauma. if you actually gave a shit about survivors you'd apologize.

[youchoseeachother]

This is on the last post where someone said "Fuck whoever tagged this as W*ncest"

Just, ugh, people who say shit like that honestly bother me.

Because I know if it were any other character combo with an "acceptable" ship people wouldn't even bat their eyes at it being tagged with that ship.

I also feel like nowadays (not that it was ever particularly "accepted" but it's definitely been worse lately) people legitimately fully misunderstand the nuances of Wincest as a ship. For one, I think they completely disregard that "gencest" is contained within wincest. Which means all of those brotherly moments are still a part of the ship. Just because the moments are read as "solely brotherly" by non-wincest shippers doesn't mean that those moments don't directly apply to the ship wincest. It's like saying "You're not allowed to see Castiel's love confession as Destiel because I only see the two of them as friends." Like, whether or not you are reading a scene a certain way does not mean that that ship has not FULLY ACCEPTED that moment as part of its cannon. Like just because you wouldn't tag a moment as a ship, does not mean that those people who ship it aren't allowed to.

I think it's gotten to the point where even ACKNOWLEDGING that those brothers are fucked up over each other, even in a non-sexual way, has become so frowned upon that even Gencest (which used to actually be a legitimately popular form of content for people who liked the idea of codependent brothers but didn't like the idea of outright incest) is no longer acceptable. I spend so much time on tiktok watching edits that could CLEARLY be read as Wincest by a shipper being tagged as "this isn't wincest, ew" or "I hope that this isn't a wincest edit" as if people are extrapolating content out of ether instead of literally copying and pasting scenes that show the brothers in a more "gencest" light.

Anyways, sorry for the rant, I've just spent too much time on the internet at this point and honestly people can be so frustrating.

Yeah i completely agree! It's absurd to be so obsessed with how other people interpret a post to the point where you won't interact with it if someone else sees it in a way you don't like. Like - so many people refuse to reblog gifsets of canon scenes if they're tagged as wincest, and it doesn't make any sense at all! If you like the gifset who cares if someone else is appreciating it for different reasons?

(Obviously the actual reason is that they'd be immediately ostracized by their mutuals if they dared to reblog something like that and wow that sounds so healthy and not stressing at all)

[rapidhighway]

Hey there! Love your art, Marysia! Can I ask you a question about your DNIs? "cas n dean / wincesties dni"... does that mean shippers of those two particular ships shouldn't look at or reblog your work? Or do you mean *any* shipper, since you don't ship? I'd love to share your work, but I'm not sure I should? Have a great weekend, any which way! ~Cris

I'm uncomfortable with w*ncest and I'd rather people who ship it don't interact with me.

The other part is just that I don't ship d*stiel and dont make any content for this ship. It's there just to let people know what to expect from me. And so maybe some of them don't tag my platonic stuff as ship cause it's really disheartening to see. I guess it's weirdly written in my bio

[toxicevilgayshit]

happy pride month dean is trans

- don't repost, reblogs are encouraged - *ncest shippers (that includes w*nkline) don't fucking interact - click for good quality

@rogue-cas-whore @heller-sam-leahy @casmick-consequences @floral-cas i hope it's alright to tag you all!

[peachrote]

anyway, i added a rule which i thought i already had in place: i don't want anybody who considers themself a "pro/shipper", as in someone who thinks romanticization of adult/minor stuff and *ncest (including adopted family!!) is totally OK and should never be criticized, interacting with me. to be clear, this is not about exploration of darker topics overall, it is about the clear portrayal of such things as desirable/romantic/sexy in any way. i don't care if you give a warning beforehand, i don't want it anywhere near me. this also includes aging up minor characters who are ONLY minors in canon to do lewd things with them or ship them with a canon adult.

on top of that, i personally prefer not to see nsfw of drv3 characters (who are high school aged with no distinct canon ages) and twewy characters who were originally underage. that's only for my personal preference, and as long as you put it under a readmore, i'm hardly going to pass judgment on you. it's literally just because, to me personally, they're still kids (even if v3 tends to be rly gross about fanservice w them)

[pankratz]

laughing my ass off at this person in their mid-to-late 50's who's an incest shipper and on tumblr, harassing minors. and yet i'm the jackass, huh?

i don't think they realize that tumblr has a filtering system where you can block tags you don't want to see, which is why i tagged my post with the uncensored w//ncest one.

there's also the fact that i've posted this:

as well as saying that i don't want w//ncest shippers on my account, and yet they still interact. that person interacted on the post where i said the latter. they also said "dean haters not welcome" then go out of their way to interact with me, as well as block me.

for a nearly 60 year old, this bitch really needs to learn how to read.

[caswlw]

nobody here hates sam. never seen it happen, if anything people just don't care about him much.

it's jared stans & wincesties that makes people not want to interact with sam content.

can't count how many times I wanted to post or reblog something sam related but decided not to because getting dumbass messages for the next 3 weeks just wasn't worth it. it's almost always someone with a Jared padalecki icon, just saying 🤷‍♀️

SEE THATS EXACTLY IT!!!!

like. why is it that So many of them are toxic ?? we don’t hate sam it’s just that many of us can’t rb sam content unless it’s from a trusted lesbian sam url !! i’ve come across so many pro shippers and straight up w!ncests that are producing sam content that i can’t rb from under good conscience 😔

and like. sus that so many of the worst fandom members are all shaking hands. like w!ncest shippers, j*red stans, conservatives, straight dean truthers, misha haters. like why is that venn diagram a circle

[lampgate]

holy shit. i didn't think i'd have to make this post because it's 2021 and i didn't think v*ltron blogs still existed but like. if ur a sh*ith shipper then get fuck out of here????????? like no?????????? why would u think i would interact with u if i don't want to interact w/ w*ncest shippers???? u are the same breed of fucked up get OFF my blog lmao

[cramenjoyer]

how come you reblog stuff made by w*ncest shippers if you don't want them to interact with you?

if you’re a normal person: please send me the posts i relogged from wincest shippers and i’ll delete them. i never do it knowingly and i avoid it but it’s fucking everywhere in this fandom. i try to check but i can’t go thru the whole reblog chain of every post i reblog because that’s genuinely unreasonable but i always check before i follow; i’m still able to fuck up though. thanks for letting me know i did tho

if you’re a winc*stie asking why i reblogged ur post but i’m being an anti or whatever the fuck: get your hands off my blog and get therapy. i will personally invert your digestive system.

[orionsangel86]

So, after a long conversation with super-powerful-queen-slaynna, whom you can thank for me sending this message, so like... if you like it good, if you don't blame them, I do want to apologize for assuming you were saying people can't talk about Destiel, its shippers and how much they dislike it in their group chats. That's what the post came off to me, as if you were policing what people could and couldn't say in these GC about Destiel. Slaynna made me realiza that you meant your post as a 1/2

warning to Destiel shippers who might wander into them. I understand this, because whenever a Destiel shipper follows me, I make it a point to warn them my blog might not be a positive space for them precisely to avoid this sort of unplesant interactions. It also came off as you were invalidating and dismissing the bad experiences people might have had with misbehaving Destiel shippers, which I'm sure you're nice enough NOT to do. My beef is really not with you, or Tink, or any other Destiel 2/?

meta writer, my beef is with shippers who are genuinely hateful and do hateful things. You simply came off as you didn't believe there are Destiel shippers who do these things at all. That say, I won't apologize for venting to like-minded people about my utter dislike for the ship, because we do in fact do that. But I don't think it's fair you walked in on us at that point and extrapolated that's all we do. BTW there is in fact an Anti-Destiel GC and the irony is, if you had walked into that 3/4

one 24hrs earlier, you would have in fact found people gushing about Megstiel and Sastiel, LMAO. 4/4

...

Okay, I’ll give you pointers for being bold enough to come explain this in my ask box, and I commend @super-powerful-queen-slayyna for reaching out to try to calm the stormy seas. I am most likely not going to make any further comments on that post anyway because it has blown out of control and has escalated into a full blown ship war post which I never wanted when I sent it. It’s now Destiel shippers and my friends trying to defend me or people blatantly calling me names and using unnecessary language which I am not even going to acknowledge or give the time of day as I don’t go in for that sort of childish name calling (unless you count my use of the word bronly but some things I think even we can agree are a necessary evil).

My post was a response to my own hurt and irritation at coming across two GCs, one for Sastiel, and one for Megstiel, which were both recommended to me by Tumblr, which were not tagged as anti-Destiel that I could see, that appeared on the surface to simply be places for people to discuss and squee over those ships. In both GCs I saw nothing but hate and lies and other upsetting comments about Destiel and Destiel shippers. It was extremely disheartening to see that in what on the surface appeared to be safe spaces. Because here’s the thing, these shipper GCs should be safe spaces. I have friends that are multishippers, that like Sastiel (and even the odd few who like Megstiel even though admittedly I don’t anymore.) There are plenty of other people out there in fandom that might like all three ships (I’d imagine those people simply want Cas to have all the love in which case SAME). 

To get one point very clear, I don’t actually care if people hate Destiel. I’m not going to preach to anyone about Destiel unless someone comes to me directly or comes scrolling my blog. I always tag Destiel so anyone who uses Tumblr blacklist should be able to avoid my blog completely. I would never intentionally go looking in an anti Destiel chat group. I’ve seen it all before anyway and it’s the same old arguments that really don’t affect my shipping preferences or my beliefs. 

What annoyed me was that those GCs were not anti Destiel chats. They were Megstiel and Sastiel chats. They were places where impressionable young Megstiel and Sastiel shippers could come across, who have zero feelings towards Destiel, and find themselves being told a bunch of lies and nasty crap about Destiel shippers and the ship. They are places where Destiel shippers who like to ship those other ships too might come across and suddenly find themselves isolated and alienated, which only perpetuates retaliation from those Destiel shippers and potentially causes the hate that you stress is so virulent among Destiel shippers to begin with.

My post was a warning for multishippers who are also Destiel shippers or at least Destiel friendly, that those GCs were being used to spread hate about Destiel. It was also an FYI to the people in those GCs that their hatred was very much public, in case they weren’t aware. I tagged the ships because I wanted people who ship Megstiel and Sastiel to see it, especially if they are Destiel friendly, because yeah, I’d want them to avoid those GCs.

Yes I then got snarky. I claimed that this does kinda prove a point because no Destiel GC that I’ve seen includes a bunch of hate and nastiness aimed at other ships. Sure, there is a high chance that there are hateful Destiel shippers out there. There are certainly a lot of bitter people on Twitter who piss me off when they scream queerbaiting at the writers so yes, of course there are bad eggs. I was shocked that from what I saw, there was no squee or shared theories or excitement about the ships, just page after page of hate aimed at Destiel shippers. So yes, perhaps I happened upon both convos right when those topics cropped up (which would be rather coincidental) and perhaps I had just missed the topics that I was interested in checking out - the theories, the meta, the spec... That’s what I was interested in. Since these GCs are a way to keep a finger on the pulse of what the fandom might be thinking in terms of the show and shipping and I was curious. Believe it or not I actually like to keep an open mind even though Megstiel is something that gives me a bad taste in my mouth ever since I sat myself down and truly thought about it. 

I generalised. I know I shouldn’t have done that, but those GC convos pissed me off. I don’t know a single Destiel shipper who would spend hours of their day just ranting about how awful Megstiel shippers are and how much they hate the pairing. I HAVE debated with friends about the suspected infiltration of the Megstiel ship by Bronlies who are using Meg to get Cas out of the way and to be spiteful towards Destiel shippers. This IS something that has been happening in recent years and I think even you admitted that in one of your replies to my post.

I also wasn’t trying to invalidate your experience with hate. I would never do that. The one thing I will say about anon hate in particular is that you don’t know who it is coming from. I occasionally get anon hate but I certainly don’t immediately assume it’s a w*ncest shipper just because I can’t stand w*ncest. Getting a message in your ask box that says “go kill yourself” is horrible, believe me, I know. But if that’s all it is, you can’t assume the sender was a shipper at all. Unless the message was “I ship Destiel and you can go kill yourself” you just can’t assume. If you have had actual Destiel shippers come and attack and threaten you and send you those messages directly then 1. I am so so sorry because no one deserves that kind of abuse, and 2. I hope you exposed them if you could. Because if there is one thing I have learnt about the Destiel shippers in MY circles, it’s that we find that kind of behaviour completely unacceptable and we WILL call it out from our own side if we see it. 

The reason I have such a high opinion of Destiel shippers being the “nice” people in fandom is simply because I have never seen that kind of behaviour from them. I interact with a lot of people. I have seen Destiel shippers get overly passionate, I have seen them get upset and angry when people lash out at them. I have seen them turn bitter and negative and go off on rants about the show. I have seen them dog pile on an anti’s post to provide evidence against a false claim “Kripke said he’s straight” and I thought it was a bit much... but it wasn’t hate. It was a reaction to years and years and years of being laughed at, called delusional, mocked and ridiculed by all other sides within the fandom. Destiel shippers are desperate for validation. They are desperate to disprove the lies. If people actually listened to us, or read the countless posts that have been written clearly providing evidence and sources to disprove every lie and false claim against Destiel perhaps we wouldn’t be so defensive. That’s what happens when you’ve been gaslighted for 11 years. 

But regardless, I’m not here to get involved in shipping wars. You’ll continue going on hating Destiel, and I will continue going on and, well, not hating, but very much disliking Megstiel in canon (though I have read some very sweet Destiel fics where Meg is Cas’s best friend and enjoyed the characterisations there.) 

My post was never to gatekeep and stop you from ranting about Destiel. Rant away to your hearts content. As I said above I really don’t care if people hate it. All I ask, is that you keep that kind of content in places that are clearly labelled as anti Destiel. So that should a Destiel shipper want to check out a Sastiel or a Megstiel GC, they can do, without feeling completely unwelcome and hated on just for enjoying Dean and Cas’s relationship as well. I really don’t think that’s too much to ask. All it takes is one tag right? Create your Megstiel GC and by all means rant about Destiel in it, but please just tag it as Anti Destiel.

Thank you for reaching out to me and explaining your side of things. I do appreciate it. 

[heartsbreaking-migrated]

okay i was gonna make an entirely separate post about an entirely different topic, but WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH PEOPLE SHIPPING W*NCEST IN THE YEAR 2022 NEARLY 2023?

why are sam/dean shippers coming out of the woodwork and finding my blogs? why are they still around???

i do see how it may come off as hypocritical considering i write in the asoiaf rpc but if it's not fucking obvious IF YOU SHIP W*NCEST DO NOT FOLLOW ME, DO NOT INTERACT WITH MY POSTS AND IF YOU DO FOLLOW ME PLEASE LEAVE.

i'm not entirely opposed to writing taboo topics or people being allowed to write whatever the fuck they wanna write. i'm not a puritan, do it on your own time on your own blog.

but don't follow me and expect that i'm gonna go along with it.

good fucking night.

ps. if you do ship it, do not interact with/reply to this post. i don't wanna hear it. just go elsewhere.

[thatfandomradfemuhate]

callout culture

the s*pn fandom has an issue with callout culture because it's big and popular, and the show and fandom are full of cancellable topics

the big one that regularly whips up an anti mob is "supporting incest" because the bush-era fandom made w*ncest (shipping the brothers together) a thing, and unfortunately it never faded away. like any callout culture issue, the group that is targeted for incest-related cancellation is much larger than the group of actual shippers

recently i've been thinking how i could talk about all the nasty and unhealthy ways the fandom preoccupation with hunting and purging "adjacents" is for all parties, but i couldn't point out the exact same points are true for "terfs" without very unwelcome scrutiny. so i'll do some of it here

callout culture doesn't care for evidence and encourages readers not to either. you are being told someone is a bad person with triggering posts and opinions (whether problematic ship taste or feminist beliefs). why would you go check instead of "block and stay safe"?

when evidence is provided it's often carefully removed from context to look worse. this can be talking about an incest ship (specifically to look at unhealthy and twisted dynamics) or making a vague and generally disparaging comment about transwomen (specifically referring to the article in the blog's previous post about a trans-identified rapist)

there's an uncomfortable amount of focus on identifying people's connections and judging their acceptability. you don't have to participate in the bad thing. you can and will get targeted for being "adjacent" and tolerating / being somehow crypto about it

the process of crafting a callout (assuming it is based on evidence, however loosely) sounds immensely triggering and unhealthy to the author, who is so bothered by the topic but spends extensive time hunting for it anyway. i'm thinking a lot about trans people who believe "terfs" are bigots who want them dead and think it's traumatizing to interact with them, but will deep dive notes and reblogs to find and screenshot someone's tenuous connections to terfs

callout targets often get anon hate, and because it's the internet harassment is often vicious and sexualized. in fandom and feminist cases, the targets are usually young females

watching this sort of parallel experience play out also really drives home how you need to watch your own side's tactics, because while i disagree with fandom antis and terf hunting, there are plenty of queer blogs who will speak out against fandom callout culture and then immediately reblog a "terf" one. don't participate in or ignore online tactics you disagree with just because you find the target acceptable

(one queer blog notably wrote a whole essay on how anti culture was fueled by evangelical christian beliefs and an offshoot of similar terf rhetoric, which was a trip to read as a radfem leaning gender crit who can trace a clear line of censorship based on thoughtcrimes as part of my criticism of antis, religion, and gender)