#veilguard negative

[baejax-the-great]

[agirlking]

I can't wait for the blight to destroy the entirety of Southern Thedas therefore killing all of the characters we know and love as this RPG chooses to confirm a canon, making all choices in the prior three games pointless.

[kurosmind]

Another thing I'm finding really annoying about the game writing is

How they flattened all the conflict and lore from the previous game. Slavery in Tevinter? Barely mentioned. Racism tensions between elves and humans? Where are they? Invading qunari forces are just a separatist factions now.

But more about the elves. Hate how everyone and every Dalish is aware that their "gods" were evil and corrupt mages. Like, what, the Inquisitor went on a continent wide information spread about it? And the Dalish just accepted it? Finding it hard to believe, especially if Inky is not elf.

In Inquisition/trespasser one of the plot points for a Dalish inquisitor was possibly clinging to their pantheon even in the face of being an Andrastian idol AND seeing their faith shattered in trespasser. And now all Dalish are like "lol our gods were fucked up LMFAO"

Also less of a retcon and more of a pet peeve: the way the writers decided to smother any kind of interesting party conflict before it happened (speaking of the amount of time spent reiterating how Culturally Sensitive the Lords of Fortune are when Bellara confronts Taash about stealing elven artifacts). And man knowing that it's possibly some kind of reaction to purity culture that wants to erase any kind of meaningful discussion in stories angers me (yes I'm talking about the people hating that Dorian had that arc about slavery)

[orinthered]

i give dos2 and bg3 passes where i wouldnt give them to veilguard because at least the prior two games haven't set the precedent that its worldbuilding is very morally grey and textured — they're incredibly low stakes in comparison to what dragon age has been building up towards the better part of 20 years. not that they don't play with nuance, but they don't exactly demand the audience has an opinion on the sociopolitical conflicts that dragon age sprinkles throughout their worldbuilding, not in the same way. aka, the reasons why dragon age as a series is so beloved in the first place

also, i just really really really appreciate an rpg that doesnt force me to use dogshit dialogue wheels lol . i even think that larian's origin system is proof that dialogue wheels are earnestly detrimental to the rpg experience, EVEN in the instances where you are playing the dev's original character and not your own (because that is what Rook is).

tldr i miss dark urge badly

[breaking-circles]

Probably a bad sign of how I feel about Veilguard that I'm more looking forward to reading how other people would have handled the plot than actually, yknow, finishing the game

[wardenofthefade]

NGL been shifting through a lot of various dragon age opinions lately between blogs, youtube, etc, and I keep seeing the same thing over and over again; somebody dares to say something about being disappointed over something revealed from Veilguard and about twenty die-hards jump down their throat to explain that they aren't REAL fans, they clearly just played Origins one time and they need to get over it because it was fifteen years ago and OBVIOUSLY dragon age has changed EVERY TIME so also you're an IDIOT if you didn't notice and a FAKE FAN if you didn't like it and FUCK OFF with your negativity and--- Like. Y'all. Can we calm our tits please. I've seen a lot of things bandied about that claim that the TRUE dragon age fans have no critique of the new game and that anyone who does is just a fan of Origins. And I think this is.... so incredibly reductive and unnecessary? Like I get that hate can be exhausting. And there are definitely a TON of 'gamerz' who are downvoting dragon age stuff for culture war reasons rather than because they are fans of DA and unhappy with the game's direction. But there are legitimate complaints and concerns as well, and I get extremely irritated to see folks claim that the only fans are the ones who are unapologetic Yes Men.

[ra-scheln]

bitching about veilguard and plagiarism ahead

One thing that REALLY pisses me off and that I haven't seen anyone mention yet, is how much Veilguard has ripped off from basically every other video game. case in point, Emmrich. You can't tell me they didn't heavily draw on Peter Cushing's face for inspiration:

you know. like fucking Blood and Wine did for Regis. The other vaguely grave-vibes guy with old man rizz.

[stygiusfic]

dragon age: the veilguard is like being put into a race car that could break the sound barrier but then they only drive it at a speed appropriate for a school zone

it's like being put on a great sea voyage and told fearsome tales of the kraken and then one day the kraken comes out of the water and it just waves hi at your ship and then leaves

it's chekhov's gun on the wall in act 1 but it's never fired, and since the lack of gunshots does make you lose your fear of the gun, they tell you: but wait!! there's a bigger badder gun out there!! (and that won't be fired either. not in any way that matters. if it's ever fired it will be so late in the story that it's impossible to give a shit anymore)

there is so much wasted potential and so many times they say "no" to the world they're supposedly playing in, it makes me feel insane

[apostaterogue]

Veilguard post game thoughts. Largely negative, to be honest, but some positives.

Things I liked:

I want to be clear that there were so many things I very much enjoyed about this game.

- Of course everyone knows it was beautiful. The scenery, the HAIR PHYSICS, the animations, the monsters, the combat. Everything was beautiful and for the most part, incredibly fluid. I have 3,000 screenshots. I really did enjoy it.

- The companions (but I do have something to say about that later) were amazing. I loved how diverse and dynamic they all were, I love how (most) of their personal stories went. I loved that finishing all of their stories did actually impact and tie into your ending in an important and cohesive way.

- The factions, although I definitely wish we had more content with them, were so much fun to explore and learn about and be a part of (sort of).

- I actually really enjoyed the aspect of the story that was the blight, the blight changing/being destroyed. It really felt like a salute to this looming threat we've been fighting for the last fourteen years since we were first given Origins.

Now.

The things I didn't like.

- The clothes. There was like no diversity in the clothes, everything kind of looked the same but in different colors? There were a few really good ones I stuck with the rest of the game once I unlocked them. And the hair options, I don't understand how there's so many but again they all just sort of look the same but at different lengths. !!! Hello?

- Bioware, do you know what a fat person is? Because you told me I could make a fat person. You fucking lied.

- Let's talk about the elves. Because bioware really didn't, other than completely shifting the blame to this race that they have scapegoated throughout their entire franchise. They have treated the elves terribly, they've made sure WE knew the elves were treated terribly, and even have some flagrantly bland comments in regards to it from your party members. I played as an elf, as I'm used to them making that one of the most impactful storylines, and although my rook has a lot of feelings about everything that has happened/is happening to elves… nothing happens here. Nobody says anything about the way elves are treated other than yourself and a few passing comments from both Bellara and Davrin. So now the Dalish are just being replaced with the veil jumpers? Also why are the veil jumpers the only faction that don't have their own codex category? They just fall under ‘elves’ even though anyone apparently can be a veil jumper? So not only do you treat your elves terribly, from sexual assault in the first ten minutes of the first game to making sure your Lavellan knows every five minutes nobody trusts you because you're an elf- Not only an elf, but a Dalish elf- Which, right, they're not around anymore there's just the evolving and curiously learning accepted everywhere veil jumpers that can be any race. Got it.

- The crows. The crows. The crows. Okay fine. Institutions change over time. People change over time. Maybe this picture-esque little happy family changed everything for the crows. Did they change it so much that all the abuse Zevran said happened just… stopped? Why are the crows suddenly seen as good guys… by comparison… to the threads, I guess?? Why was it made so black and white when it was always so muddled and gray, and for good reason? They had slaves. They had a LOT of slaves. Why was none of that discussed? Why did we just erase the history of one of the token poc companions? Huh?

- Speaking of token companions and erasing history and slavery, why are we in Tevinter and *nobody talks about the slavery* except for in passing, flippant comments or brushing it off as no big deal? Fenris’ entire story was about escaping from a Tevinter mage/slaver and we not only don't talk about that, but this would have been a good opportunity to have him come back. And even if you didn't do that, to just not address any of it at all while we are literally in this mystical country/continent we've been told is The Worst Place™ is callus and lazy writing.

- The companions again. They were all so half baked, and they had so much potential. I genuinely do love all of them, I feel like they're so great. I loved (almost) all of their stories. Neve ended up being my romance, the slow build of trust for having chosen Treviso over Minrathous and the angst between her and Rook was excellent. But, it fell flat in so many ways. You get all of four scenes with your love interest, and that's it. You can't talk to them outside of scenes, they just stare at you. Somehow I don't feel like I really know any of them. There was not this same getting to know each other that bioware is known for and you could see whispers of it in some interactions because some of them were SO good and then it all just falls so unbelievably flat. All of them feel like they were cut in half and unfinished. The romances were all so boring at the end of the day, and I say that wishing there was more! I really did love them and they all had such strong moments that I'm still struggling to understand where exactly something just feels *empty*.

- Taash, specifically. Anyone that knows me knows how fucking excited I was to have a nonbinary companion. What I wasn't expecting was for that to be their entire story. Their *entire* story is about their gender. And when they have that conversation with their mother, who offers insight in the only way she knows how because qunari already have words for transness, Taash gets… mad? Like are we mad because you don't understand your own culture (which is valid, and what I WISH they would have leaned more into)? Because what you say and imply is that it's… about the pronouns? It's such a weird and awkward interaction. Their entire story didn't need to be about their gender. It could have been secondary, it could have just been a thing like it was with Krem and not had their entire story literally revolve around only these conversations. Even their relationship commitment conversation is about their gender. It's so awkward and it comes off as a cis person writing their idea of what transness is like. And got it wrong. Wrong wrong. Also, why does Taash come off as so childish? Why are they always saying such mean things to the companions? I don't get any of that. I can't tell if it's bad writing or? I don't even know.

- The inquisitor. If not having enough options for cc was bad enough, I can even begin to say how gutted I was at every interaction I had with inky. That was not my inky. It was worse than what they did to Hawke, especially, *especially* as a Sollavellan shipper. I want to be very clear here- my Lavellan was ready to kill Solas. She would have done what she needed to do because she is practical enough to know that some things just have to be. Of course, you can choose to have Solas go without her. But it frames it in this - way. That she has been pining for him, that she has been wasting away and is nothing without him and has been longing for him for the last ten years. My own headcanons about her polyamory aside, that just isn't healthy? Why again is bioware reducing a woman down to a man and his choices/regrets/destiny? And to follow that, she can just. Go with him into the fade prison. He says nothing about it, he is just like yeah sure cool this is fine babe. She has virtually no autonomy or voice at all, her sole purpose exists as some limb to Solas and his overarching theme of redemption.

- The elves again. And the dwarves. So we take two races: one being the race we've been told over and over is horribly mistreated, enslaved, and oppressed. The other being a race you've given us virtually little lore on at all and have all but ignored really in everything except origins. You pit these two races against each other. You make the one who has experienced thousands of years of tyranny ultimately responsible for the dwarves being cut off from dreams/magic/the fade. Fuck. You. Bioware.

- Choosing between Harding and Davrin: this was also such a cheap shot at shock value. If a companion had to die, we should have been able to pick any of them first of all. But of course you chose the dwarf and the black man. Of course! Of course you did, bioware. The only exceptions due to your second choice and the end would have been maybe Neve, Bellara, or Lucanis. But even then, really only Lucanis should have been cut off from that choice IF THEY had to kill someone that was (which I don't think they should have).

- Speaking of cheap deaths, I hated that Taash’s mom died. I hated that Bellara's brother died. Both made me cry but they felt so cheap after what had happened and it really didn't feel like it was building good story, it felt like it was just supposed to be a shocking gut punch both times.

- Varric. Are you fucking kidding me? First of all, if he had to die, it should have just.. happened. Not only do I not think that based on the Solas they showed us throughout inquisition that he wouldn't keep up that charade, he would give into his guilt imo, but also nobody says… anything. Neve and Harding never ask Rook if they're okay, they were there. The Inquisitor, Dorian, Isabela, Morrigan. All people that knew him. Hello? The bones of okay writing for the twist were there but it was a shitty, cheap twist and a slap in the face to anyone who ever loved that character.

- The end. What the fuck was that ending? First of all, it's like five lines of dialogue with Solas. Now, as a romanced Lavellan- I actually did like that Lavellan couldn't talk him out of it on her own and it took him seeing Mythal/her freeing him from her/forgiving him to help him move on. I hated that after that Lavellan just. Sacrificed her entire life and goes with him, this man she knew for six months and then chased for ten years. That's fine if that's your headcanon, but that's not how I see love. And frankly, it would have been cool if (since apparently they insisted on setting up for a sequel, which I'll get to) the veil DID come down and the world be permanently changed/figuring that out. But no, instead, we got the secret ending.

- And fuck the secret ending.

- And what the fuck was that epilogue? Where was the slideshow??? Hello?

I'm sure I have more to say but this is almost 1800 words so slsksks. I had such high hopes for this game. I was so positive about it, I ate up all the trailers and teasers, I held out on forming opinions, strong ones, until I was about halfway through it and by the end I felt so deflated. It started out so strong, and I was so excited. By the end of it, I just don't feel the same way about this that I do the others. To me, it feels like bioware's whitewashed and sanitized version of everything that came before and it doesn't feel like a dragon age game at all. They picked apart and backtracked on their own lore, they blatantly ignored and threw out characters we have loved for years, and to boot one of the things we did get in the epilogue is a big fuck you to all past players: Thedas is on fire guys, it was a nice journey, we're moving on now :)

Genuinely and wholeheartedly, I have never been so mad at a game. It wasn't even that my expectations were through the roof, bioware had set the bar for themselves and they fell so unbelievably short.

Okay. Done

😮‍💨

[alisadraws]

The cursed Mythal bathwater choice doesn't exist because it contradicts THE DEVS story.

At the end of this crap, if your inquisitor romanced Solas she cries for him to stop, he doesn't listen, Morrigan swoops in to fart Mythal's ghosts, Solas listens to her and he fucks off into the horizon to live happily ever after with the inquisitor hand in hand.

That's it, that is the solavellan ending they were able to imagine, that's why we can't import any choices: it would contradict the lame ass 5th grader fanfiction these people wanted to tell.

Screaming into the void about Veilguard. Spoilers!

I have this written somewhere else, but I might as well put it here.

It feels so shallow. None of the places we visit feel like they're even on the same planet as how they're described in the original 3 games, and there's no current politics or set world-state as you can't transfer over choices/saves from past games.

I was surprised when we didn't see an intense scene about slavery or the horrors that regularly occur in Tevinter when Dorian paints such a detailed picture of his home in DAI.

Elves have been turned into humans basically, Dalish no longer exist or feel like they have culture. No longer are they suspicious of outsiders. Hey, join the veil-jumpers and get your grubby shem fingers all over ancient artifacts! Essentially Jesus Christ has come back to earth and none of them seem that bothered about it. It should be chaos among the Dalish as they're so hardcore in their beliefs, established by lavellan and Solas' encounters with them in DAI.

The factions just feel like filler that all have the same feel and milquetoast goody-two shoes goal.

Everyone's accents are all over the place. I heard maybe 1 guy sound Tevene in Tevinter, everyone else was American/Dwarven-esque or Fereldan. It's like Andromeda all over again. They just don't care about the details.

No true arguments or bashing of heads, no characters have a strong opinion one way of politics/beliefs that could be seen as morally wrong. No one feels real.

Not even to mention (SPOILERS!)

Solas for some reason 'abhors' blood magic, when in DAI he was willing to teach you if he knew it.

They butchered Solas' character. They're acting as though he's always been cold and evil, out for revenge, and even in his memories during his rebellious days he sacrificed tons of spirits to get what he wanted, which couldn't be further from his character. They also forgot about the implied elven uprising that was growing at the end of Trespasser. Not once does the game mention an agent, or does he have any followers.

There's an ending that says every big choice in past games (Loghain's betrayal, corypheus going into the golden city) was orchestrated by a secret no-name organization that is basically the illuminati, destroying all agency of past characters.

I haven't finished the game, but I hear the titans are never truly touched on other than Lace's powers.

The crows who torture and kill innocents are seen as this group that helps keep the streets safe...?

Why was solas so against the grey wardens killing archdemons if nothing bad happens when you kill them and they're just creatures assigned to each of the elven pantheon? In DAI he acted as though killing Archdemons was a dangerous thing and would worsen the world.

What ever happened to the soul of the old god that Mythal took from Morrigan's child, then Solas took from Mythal? Is that ever touched on?

What about the well of sorrows!?

I should've steeled myself against this game being bad. I knew it was coming. But man, I love the other three dragon age games so it's still horrible to see it happen. I think solas' character assassination was one of the worst things this game did as he's one of the most interestingly written villains IMO (In inquisition).

[unveiling-unguarding]

"People hated DA2 and Inquisition when they launched but love them now. The same thing will happen to DA:TV"

Like hell it will. Veilguard gives empty answers to empty questions with empty characters. There is nothing deeper to sustain it.

[leliwardens]

(Article I want to bitch about on my own blog and not put it in the tags.)

I suspected that the devs were super chronically online for various reasons and choices but this basically confirms it. Like oh my fucking god I'm being so genuine and real but they really, REALLY need to log off. You cannot approach any piece of media trying to appease all of the fans, it will never, ever work. Fandom is not a monolith, fans are not a monolith, people will bad faith read your story for fun, or good faith read it, and still come away with an entirely different take than you intention. "Death of an author" is a real and true concept.

"Wipe out a Dalish clan in all three games" is a CHOICE. In Origins it is considered the evil option of the three endings for the quest, you have to encourage the werewolves to want to kill them. In DA2 you're defending the person that the clan has been told is a pariah among the clan AND is now blamed for getting their keeper killed. In Inquisition it is a rather convoluted war table mission, but there are ways to resolve it with no death. But these are choices! The game doesn't give you a gun and leave you no room to avoid it. Taking the choice out isn't a win! It's bad game design for a roleplaying game!

"None of the Dalish would take the side of the evil gods" is not the "win" you think it is (also I guess city elves get shafted again but that's expected) because it flattens any sort of nuance, motivations, messy interactions, or just flaws? In general flaws? Going from one extreme to another in terms of "good" and "bad" is not the "win" you think it is!!! All you've done is removed character agency!!!!

I can't suspend my disbelief enough to accept the entire build up of Inquisition to Trespasser with elves leaving their homes to join Solas only for the reason they're not running around being "oh he'll end the world". Like, how could their lives get worse in that case? Sure, the extremely powerful being claiming to be right out of the mythos said his plan will cause thousands of deaths and the world as you might know it but I'll just head back to my home in the alienage where humans can do whatever they want to me like burn down my home or kill my family with no repercussions. Or I guess since the city elves are practically nonexistent, that was never considered lmfao. Or hell just, elves wanting a grab at power? For selfish reasons? Or well-intentioned reasons? You know, nuance??? Like, fuck dude.

[breaking-circles]

Might be a tad out of my lane to say but one of the aspects of Taash's writing that rubs me the wrong way is being forced to encourage them to be more Qunari or more Rivani. Like they threw away the perfect chance to have a character that was part of two cultures in favor of... having Rook tell them which "side" to embrace

I haven't finished the game yet, so maybe there'll be some more nuanced writing ahead, but I'm not overly optimistic

[afistfulofbees]

Yes to all of this. I actually don't like that it was boiled down to good vs evil. Nothing is black and white and I really enjoy when good fiction can reflect this. That's one of the main reasons why I love the dragon age series so much, because historically they've done a fantastic job of showing grey morals and that's so compelling to me. The veil coming down was important to solas for more than just mythal and I believe his cause was righteous. I wanted to help him. And veilguard took all of that nuance and depth away

I wish I could get past this because there’s a lot to enjoy in this game but I really keeping going back to it. The Veil was an unnatural magical ritual that separated part of the world from itself. Both material and spiritual beings suffered because they were cut off from a part of their world. The core purposes of Solas' mission in tearing down the Veil was to rectify this. And Veilguard just… decided to basically ignore all of this. Which I'm still trying to get my head around.

This being ommited is beyond disappointing for me for two reasons. First the lost potential. I was so excited for this storyline. A choice-based RPG where the villain has an ethical reason for bringing on the apocalypse. It puts the DA4 protagonist in such an interesting position. I've always remained undecided as to whether the Veil should come down and was expecting this game to let me explore that? But no not even a little? I can understand wanting to take it into a simpler direction of good vs evil (this is a video game after all) but removing this element from the story? That's just such a wasted opportunity.

The second reason is ommiting this completely changes who Solas is. From my reading of Inquisition/Trespasser- he viewed the Veil as his mistake- it was causing suffering by remaining in place and it was his duty to undo the wound he inflicted on the world. He is still leading a rebellion to free the people- only the oppressive agent is the veil. And he has a point- which is what was going to make him such a brillitant antagonist. But without that point- by changing the fact that the Veil causes harm- honestly his entire character falls apart for me. Or rather he just seems a different character entirely- I still enjoyed moments from that character but he’s just not same Solas from Inquisition.

[amadelii]

Relationship status: year 10 of an awkward situationship that could have ramifications for the fate of the world because the gods she used to follow might actually be horrible (aka It's Complicated)

I can't wait for the new game - I'm very fond of this desperate, tortured, wet cat of a man. Bonus points if Lavellan can swoop in and save him from his own delusional chaos for Peak Drama 🙏🙏🙏

[whereismywarden]

"We wanted to make the game accessible to new players."

It's not though. Not entirely. The plot is a direct follow-up to Trespasser. And romantic or not, the relationship between Solas and the Inquisitor will apparently play a pivotal role. By definition, you're already including content that could make new players feel like they're missing parts of the story (which they are).

Also, you could easily have a default worldstate with next to no references to the older games while still giving returning players the opportunity to input a few additional choices that could crop up if relevant in codex entries or background dialogue. I forgot which game it was, but I remember playing a game once that asked you at the start whether or not you wanted to see past events be referenced during the story. It really could have been that simple.

But by choosing to remove past choices from the game entirely, not only are you not really making the game more accessible to new players, but you might end up alienating half your existing player base.