#veilguard negative

[baejax-the-great]

Massive Veilguard spoilers ahead, but this post I made in June now just... baffles me.

It's a reference to the start of the game where Varric points out correctly that people are dying, and Solas says, "That's what they do."

And I assumed, along with, oh, around 5k people on tumblr i guess, that this was Solas's doublespeak. He is tearing down the Veil because people are dying--he lost them their immortality thousands of years ago and he is trying to restore it. People dying right now is an ongoing crisis that he is trying to solve, but ultimately unimportant to the end result of people being immortal again, when they will stop dying.

Except... we get to the end of the game, and that isn't his motivation anymore. Doesn't even mention it. Doesn't mention any of the benefits of getting rid of the Veil. Just says the world is wrong and it's not how it was when Mythal was alive.

So this brilliant doublespeak at the beginning of the game laying out his motivation that we know from Trespasser is... not that. It's nothing. Were the writers misleading us about what this game was going to be? Did they forget they retconned the shit out of Solas and forgot to make this line make sense? Is Solas just supposed to be a callous murderous asshole now?

????????

Varric: People are dying!!

Solas, who invented people being able to die and is currently trying to uninvent that: Yeah, man. Glad we can agree on this.

[insufferablewarden]

I want to talk about this take from my main blog because I want to double down on it.

I truly think that Veilguard is a bad Dragon Age game.

I don’t mean to sound like a bitch, but I really hate that people feel like this is a good Dragon Age game. I hate that people use the excuse that Dragon Age reinvents itself every game in its defense. I hate that people think that this is what a Dragon Age game is. And I’ve been hearing that this is “still a Dragon Age game” even from some critical reviews.

My rebuttal, if I was being flippant, is that the vibe is simply off. It doesn’t feel right.

If I have to put my disappointment and anger into words, I would say:

No, the heart of the games has never changed. The idea that your worldview is shaped by your past and that you can be a hero or a villain depending on who tells the story has never changed. Navigating complex and sometimes race/class-based politics has never changed. The ability for you to earn approval and disapproval based on personality-defining dialogue choices and/or meaningful choices hadn’t changed. Being able to go up and talk to characters (companions most of all) to learn about who they are and how Thedas has shaped them has never changed. Companions not solely based on tropes and nebulous ideas of what makes a cute relationship used to exist. Lore reveals were handled with care and sprinkled throughout the game rather than thrown at you one after the other. Gameplay never used to insult your intelligence by handing you an explanation to everything within seconds of being presented with a problem. This series of roleplaying games used to let you roleplay even if it was just respecting what tone you wanted to use.

Or, something like that.

When people tell me that this is a good Dragon Age game, it feels like they’re comparing this legacy of games to one of those Marvel movies or remakes that doesn’t need to exist, but does because it has a built in audience and will make them money. It feels devoid of what made the old games special to me. I know that the other games aren’t perfect. Not even in all of the respects I mentioned earlier, but I felt like BioWare gave a shit? Even Dragon Age: II with all of its flaws has this beautiful cast of characters and (narratively) fleshed out city and Dragon Age: Inquisition with all of its fetch quests had some of the most complex characters, interesting quest mechanics, and this highly ambitious (if flawed) setting design. This game is so half-baked that I barely understand what it’s about or who it’s really for.

In fact, after I finished the game, it took me a few days to get over feeling negatively about the entire series. I was terrified that Veilguard had ruined this series that I’d loved for half my life for me. I felt stupid. I hate that I care so much when I’m not certain that they do. Or, being more charitable, I’m not certain that BioWare is capable of making a product with care under EA.

I don’t know. Maybe this is a Dragon Age game, but if it is, I’m not sure I want another one.

[breaking-circles]

Probably a bad sign of how I feel about Veilguard that I'm more looking forward to reading how other people would have handled the plot than actually, yknow, finishing the game

[agirlking]

I can't wait for the blight to destroy the entirety of Southern Thedas therefore killing all of the characters we know and love as this RPG chooses to confirm a canon, making all choices in the prior three games pointless.

[kurosmind]

Another thing I'm finding really annoying about the game writing is

How they flattened all the conflict and lore from the previous game. Slavery in Tevinter? Barely mentioned. Racism tensions between elves and humans? Where are they? Invading qunari forces are just a separatist factions now.

But more about the elves. Hate how everyone and every Dalish is aware that their "gods" were evil and corrupt mages. Like, what, the Inquisitor went on a continent wide information spread about it? And the Dalish just accepted it? Finding it hard to believe, especially if Inky is not elf.

In Inquisition/trespasser one of the plot points for a Dalish inquisitor was possibly clinging to their pantheon even in the face of being an Andrastian idol AND seeing their faith shattered in trespasser. And now all Dalish are like "lol our gods were fucked up LMFAO"

Also less of a retcon and more of a pet peeve: the way the writers decided to smother any kind of interesting party conflict before it happened (speaking of the amount of time spent reiterating how Culturally Sensitive the Lords of Fortune are when Bellara confronts Taash about stealing elven artifacts). And man knowing that it's possibly some kind of reaction to purity culture that wants to erase any kind of meaningful discussion in stories angers me (yes I'm talking about the people hating that Dorian had that arc about slavery)

[orinthered]

i give dos2 and bg3 passes where i wouldnt give them to veilguard because at least the prior two games haven't set the precedent that its worldbuilding is very morally grey and textured — they're incredibly low stakes in comparison to what dragon age has been building up towards the better part of 20 years. not that they don't play with nuance, but they don't exactly demand the audience has an opinion on the sociopolitical conflicts that dragon age sprinkles throughout their worldbuilding, not in the same way. aka, the reasons why dragon age as a series is so beloved in the first place

also, i just really really really appreciate an rpg that doesnt force me to use dogshit dialogue wheels lol . i even think that larian's origin system is proof that dialogue wheels are earnestly detrimental to the rpg experience, EVEN in the instances where you are playing the dev's original character and not your own (because that is what Rook is).

tldr i miss dark urge badly

[ra-scheln]

bitching about veilguard and plagiarism ahead

One thing that REALLY pisses me off and that I haven't seen anyone mention yet, is how much Veilguard has ripped off from basically every other video game. case in point, Emmrich. You can't tell me they didn't heavily draw on Peter Cushing's face for inspiration:

you know. like fucking Blood and Wine did for Regis. The other vaguely grave-vibes guy with old man rizz.

[wardenofthefade]

NGL been shifting through a lot of various dragon age opinions lately between blogs, youtube, etc, and I keep seeing the same thing over and over again; somebody dares to say something about being disappointed over something revealed from Veilguard and about twenty die-hards jump down their throat to explain that they aren't REAL fans, they clearly just played Origins one time and they need to get over it because it was fifteen years ago and OBVIOUSLY dragon age has changed EVERY TIME so also you're an IDIOT if you didn't notice and a FAKE FAN if you didn't like it and FUCK OFF with your negativity and--- Like. Y'all. Can we calm our tits please. I've seen a lot of things bandied about that claim that the TRUE dragon age fans have no critique of the new game and that anyone who does is just a fan of Origins. And I think this is.... so incredibly reductive and unnecessary? Like I get that hate can be exhausting. And there are definitely a TON of 'gamerz' who are downvoting dragon age stuff for culture war reasons rather than because they are fans of DA and unhappy with the game's direction. But there are legitimate complaints and concerns as well, and I get extremely irritated to see folks claim that the only fans are the ones who are unapologetic Yes Men.

[tacticalgrandma]

Was looking at the ama and 1) “we didn’t want to force roleplaying” why do they think I’m playing an rpg 2) repeatedly saying that a global threat made everyone put aside their prejudices and work together makes this the least timely game of all time

[apostaterogue]

Veilguard post game thoughts. Largely negative, to be honest, but some positives.

Things I liked:

I want to be clear that there were so many things I very much enjoyed about this game.

- Of course everyone knows it was beautiful. The scenery, the HAIR PHYSICS, the animations, the monsters, the combat. Everything was beautiful and for the most part, incredibly fluid. I have 3,000 screenshots. I really did enjoy it.

- The companions (but I do have something to say about that later) were amazing. I loved how diverse and dynamic they all were, I love how (most) of their personal stories went. I loved that finishing all of their stories did actually impact and tie into your ending in an important and cohesive way.

- The factions, although I definitely wish we had more content with them, were so much fun to explore and learn about and be a part of (sort of).

- I actually really enjoyed the aspect of the story that was the blight, the blight changing/being destroyed. It really felt like a salute to this looming threat we've been fighting for the last fourteen years since we were first given Origins.

Now.

The things I didn't like.

- The clothes. There was like no diversity in the clothes, everything kind of looked the same but in different colors? There were a few really good ones I stuck with the rest of the game once I unlocked them. And the hair options, I don't understand how there's so many but again they all just sort of look the same but at different lengths. !!! Hello?

- Bioware, do you know what a fat person is? Because you told me I could make a fat person. You fucking lied.

- Let's talk about the elves. Because bioware really didn't, other than completely shifting the blame to this race that they have scapegoated throughout their entire franchise. They have treated the elves terribly, they've made sure WE knew the elves were treated terribly, and even have some flagrantly bland comments in regards to it from your party members. I played as an elf, as I'm used to them making that one of the most impactful storylines, and although my rook has a lot of feelings about everything that has happened/is happening to elves… nothing happens here. Nobody says anything about the way elves are treated other than yourself and a few passing comments from both Bellara and Davrin. So now the Dalish are just being replaced with the veil jumpers? Also why are the veil jumpers the only faction that don't have their own codex category? They just fall under ‘elves’ even though anyone apparently can be a veil jumper? So not only do you treat your elves terribly, from sexual assault in the first ten minutes of the first game to making sure your Lavellan knows every five minutes nobody trusts you because you're an elf- Not only an elf, but a Dalish elf- Which, right, they're not around anymore there's just the evolving and curiously learning accepted everywhere veil jumpers that can be any race. Got it.

- The crows. The crows. The crows. Okay fine. Institutions change over time. People change over time. Maybe this picture-esque little happy family changed everything for the crows. Did they change it so much that all the abuse Zevran said happened just… stopped? Why are the crows suddenly seen as good guys… by comparison… to the threads, I guess?? Why was it made so black and white when it was always so muddled and gray, and for good reason? They had slaves. They had a LOT of slaves. Why was none of that discussed? Why did we just erase the history of one of the token poc companions? Huh?

- Speaking of token companions and erasing history and slavery, why are we in Tevinter and *nobody talks about the slavery* except for in passing, flippant comments or brushing it off as no big deal? Fenris’ entire story was about escaping from a Tevinter mage/slaver and we not only don't talk about that, but this would have been a good opportunity to have him come back. And even if you didn't do that, to just not address any of it at all while we are literally in this mystical country/continent we've been told is The Worst Place™ is callus and lazy writing.

- The companions again. They were all so half baked, and they had so much potential. I genuinely do love all of them, I feel like they're so great. I loved (almost) all of their stories. Neve ended up being my romance, the slow build of trust for having chosen Treviso over Minrathous and the angst between her and Rook was excellent. But, it fell flat in so many ways. You get all of four scenes with your love interest, and that's it. You can't talk to them outside of scenes, they just stare at you. Somehow I don't feel like I really know any of them. There was not this same getting to know each other that bioware is known for and you could see whispers of it in some interactions because some of them were SO good and then it all just falls so unbelievably flat. All of them feel like they were cut in half and unfinished. The romances were all so boring at the end of the day, and I say that wishing there was more! I really did love them and they all had such strong moments that I'm still struggling to understand where exactly something just feels *empty*.

- Taash, specifically. Anyone that knows me knows how fucking excited I was to have a nonbinary companion. What I wasn't expecting was for that to be their entire story. Their *entire* story is about their gender. And when they have that conversation with their mother, who offers insight in the only way she knows how because qunari already have words for transness, Taash gets… mad? Like are we mad because you don't understand your own culture (which is valid, and what I WISH they would have leaned more into)? Because what you say and imply is that it's… about the pronouns? It's such a weird and awkward interaction. Their entire story didn't need to be about their gender. It could have been secondary, it could have just been a thing like it was with Krem and not had their entire story literally revolve around only these conversations. Even their relationship commitment conversation is about their gender. It's so awkward and it comes off as a cis person writing their idea of what transness is like. And got it wrong. Wrong wrong. Also, why does Taash come off as so childish? Why are they always saying such mean things to the companions? I don't get any of that. I can't tell if it's bad writing or? I don't even know.

- The inquisitor. If not having enough options for cc was bad enough, I can even begin to say how gutted I was at every interaction I had with inky. That was not my inky. It was worse than what they did to Hawke, especially, *especially* as a Sollavellan shipper. I want to be very clear here- my Lavellan was ready to kill Solas. She would have done what she needed to do because she is practical enough to know that some things just have to be. Of course, you can choose to have Solas go without her. But it frames it in this - way. That she has been pining for him, that she has been wasting away and is nothing without him and has been longing for him for the last ten years. My own headcanons about her polyamory aside, that just isn't healthy? Why again is bioware reducing a woman down to a man and his choices/regrets/destiny? And to follow that, she can just. Go with him into the fade prison. He says nothing about it, he is just like yeah sure cool this is fine babe. She has virtually no autonomy or voice at all, her sole purpose exists as some limb to Solas and his overarching theme of redemption.

- The elves again. And the dwarves. So we take two races: one being the race we've been told over and over is horribly mistreated, enslaved, and oppressed. The other being a race you've given us virtually little lore on at all and have all but ignored really in everything except origins. You pit these two races against each other. You make the one who has experienced thousands of years of tyranny ultimately responsible for the dwarves being cut off from dreams/magic/the fade. Fuck. You. Bioware.

- Choosing between Harding and Davrin: this was also such a cheap shot at shock value. If a companion had to die, we should have been able to pick any of them first of all. But of course you chose the dwarf and the black man. Of course! Of course you did, bioware. The only exceptions due to your second choice and the end would have been maybe Neve, Bellara, or Lucanis. But even then, really only Lucanis should have been cut off from that choice IF THEY had to kill someone that was (which I don't think they should have).

- Speaking of cheap deaths, I hated that Taash’s mom died. I hated that Bellara's brother died. Both made me cry but they felt so cheap after what had happened and it really didn't feel like it was building good story, it felt like it was just supposed to be a shocking gut punch both times.

- Varric. Are you fucking kidding me? First of all, if he had to die, it should have just.. happened. Not only do I not think that based on the Solas they showed us throughout inquisition that he wouldn't keep up that charade, he would give into his guilt imo, but also nobody says… anything. Neve and Harding never ask Rook if they're okay, they were there. The Inquisitor, Dorian, Isabela, Morrigan. All people that knew him. Hello? The bones of okay writing for the twist were there but it was a shitty, cheap twist and a slap in the face to anyone who ever loved that character.

- The end. What the fuck was that ending? First of all, it's like five lines of dialogue with Solas. Now, as a romanced Lavellan- I actually did like that Lavellan couldn't talk him out of it on her own and it took him seeing Mythal/her freeing him from her/forgiving him to help him move on. I hated that after that Lavellan just. Sacrificed her entire life and goes with him, this man she knew for six months and then chased for ten years. That's fine if that's your headcanon, but that's not how I see love. And frankly, it would have been cool if (since apparently they insisted on setting up for a sequel, which I'll get to) the veil DID come down and the world be permanently changed/figuring that out. But no, instead, we got the secret ending.

- And fuck the secret ending.

- And what the fuck was that epilogue? Where was the slideshow??? Hello?

I'm sure I have more to say but this is almost 1800 words so slsksks. I had such high hopes for this game. I was so positive about it, I ate up all the trailers and teasers, I held out on forming opinions, strong ones, until I was about halfway through it and by the end I felt so deflated. It started out so strong, and I was so excited. By the end of it, I just don't feel the same way about this that I do the others. To me, it feels like bioware's whitewashed and sanitized version of everything that came before and it doesn't feel like a dragon age game at all. They picked apart and backtracked on their own lore, they blatantly ignored and threw out characters we have loved for years, and to boot one of the things we did get in the epilogue is a big fuck you to all past players: Thedas is on fire guys, it was a nice journey, we're moving on now :)

Genuinely and wholeheartedly, I have never been so mad at a game. It wasn't even that my expectations were through the roof, bioware had set the bar for themselves and they fell so unbelievably short.

Okay. Done

😮‍💨

[baejax-the-great]

[snarkspawn]

did I doodle this mostly so I had an excuse to draw this spite reaction image?

(YES HAHAHA YES!!!)

[breaking-circles]

Might be a tad out of my lane to say but one of the aspects of Taash's writing that rubs me the wrong way is being forced to encourage them to be more Qunari or more Rivani. Like they threw away the perfect chance to have a character that was part of two cultures in favor of... having Rook tell them which "side" to embrace

I haven't finished the game yet, so maybe there'll be some more nuanced writing ahead, but I'm not overly optimistic

[alisadraws]

The cursed Mythal bathwater choice doesn't exist because it contradicts THE DEVS story.

At the end of this crap, if your inquisitor romanced Solas she cries for him to stop, he doesn't listen, Morrigan swoops in to fart Mythal's ghosts, Solas listens to her and he fucks off into the horizon to live happily ever after with the inquisitor hand in hand.

That's it, that is the solavellan ending they were able to imagine, that's why we can't import any choices: it would contradict the lame ass 5th grader fanfiction these people wanted to tell.

Screaming into the void about Veilguard. Spoilers!

I have this written somewhere else, but I might as well put it here.

It feels so shallow. None of the places we visit feel like they're even on the same planet as how they're described in the original 3 games, and there's no current politics or set world-state as you can't transfer over choices/saves from past games.

I was surprised when we didn't see an intense scene about slavery or the horrors that regularly occur in Tevinter when Dorian paints such a detailed picture of his home in DAI.

Elves have been turned into humans basically, Dalish no longer exist or feel like they have culture. No longer are they suspicious of outsiders. Hey, join the veil-jumpers and get your grubby shem fingers all over ancient artifacts! Essentially Jesus Christ has come back to earth and none of them seem that bothered about it. It should be chaos among the Dalish as they're so hardcore in their beliefs, established by lavellan and Solas' encounters with them in DAI.

The factions just feel like filler that all have the same feel and milquetoast goody-two shoes goal.

Everyone's accents are all over the place. I heard maybe 1 guy sound Tevene in Tevinter, everyone else was American/Dwarven-esque or Fereldan. It's like Andromeda all over again. They just don't care about the details.

No true arguments or bashing of heads, no characters have a strong opinion one way of politics/beliefs that could be seen as morally wrong. No one feels real.

Not even to mention (SPOILERS!)

Solas for some reason 'abhors' blood magic, when in DAI he was willing to teach you if he knew it.

They butchered Solas' character. They're acting as though he's always been cold and evil, out for revenge, and even in his memories during his rebellious days he sacrificed tons of spirits to get what he wanted, which couldn't be further from his character. They also forgot about the implied elven uprising that was growing at the end of Trespasser. Not once does the game mention an agent, or does he have any followers.

There's an ending that says every big choice in past games (Loghain's betrayal, corypheus going into the golden city) was orchestrated by a secret no-name organization that is basically the illuminati, destroying all agency of past characters.

I haven't finished the game, but I hear the titans are never truly touched on other than Lace's powers.

The crows who torture and kill innocents are seen as this group that helps keep the streets safe...?

Why was solas so against the grey wardens killing archdemons if nothing bad happens when you kill them and they're just creatures assigned to each of the elven pantheon? In DAI he acted as though killing Archdemons was a dangerous thing and would worsen the world.

What ever happened to the soul of the old god that Mythal took from Morrigan's child, then Solas took from Mythal? Is that ever touched on?

What about the well of sorrows!?

I should've steeled myself against this game being bad. I knew it was coming. But man, I love the other three dragon age games so it's still horrible to see it happen. I think solas' character assassination was one of the worst things this game did as he's one of the most interestingly written villains IMO (In inquisition).

[unveiling-unguarding]

"People hated DA2 and Inquisition when they launched but love them now. The same thing will happen to DA:TV"

Like hell it will. Veilguard gives empty answers to empty questions with empty characters. There is nothing deeper to sustain it.

[amadelii]

Relationship status: year 10 of an awkward situationship that could have ramifications for the fate of the world because the gods she used to follow might actually be horrible (aka It's Complicated)

I can't wait for the new game - I'm very fond of this desperate, tortured, wet cat of a man. Bonus points if Lavellan can swoop in and save him from his own delusional chaos for Peak Drama 🙏🙏��