#vaticine church of the prophets

[disgruntledexplainer]

7th Sea's approach to magic is interesting. You have several varients of magic, each with it's own rules. Porte lets you rip portals in reality to teleport yourself or objects you own, Sorte lets you alter fate, El Fuego Ardento allows you to control fire, Zerstorung allows you to speed up time to corrode materials rapidly, and Mirage allows you to see through and hide in mirrors. (I'm not going to talk about Faith, Shamanism, or the Old Ways, since they kinda undermine my point a bit).

Each of these forms of magic are extremely useful, but extremely dangerous. The most obvious case for both is Porte. Porte in the setting is used for navigation (allowing sailors to calculate longitude by looking at a clock at home), and to transfer messages rapidly between army divisions, but it is used for other purposes as well. Ever been late for work and thought "I wish I could just teleport there"? Ever lost your keys and thought "I wish I could teleport them into my hand"? You have the power, and it's just so easy to use it. It may be frivolous, but just once...

but there are problems. Porte is a magic that wants to be used. it twists the mind, increasing avarice and sloth in it's user the longer it is used. I want this, it's mine, I can take it whenever. I don't need to move, I can grab it from here. It twists the soul by virtue of existing.

and further, the use of Porte sorcery produces a kind of polution, for lack of a better word. holes that you open in reality close up after you release them, but the scars of those holes remain. every portal you open weakens the fabric. Larger portals are more dangerous; though it is rare, sometimes things escape through them. insectenoid demons from a time before humanity. sure, one portal probably won't let them in, but if you keep making them you will inevitably start attracting them. and if you open a permanent portal... yeah, that's a problem.

but it's so useful, it's so convenient. and because of that, despite the danger to humanity and to reality itself, it keeps being used endlessly.

all the Bargainer Sorceries are like this. Sorte is used by the ambitious and vindictive to get ahead in life, or to inflict misery on their enemies. Have you ever wanted to have just a little more? to have a little more money to pay off a debt, to have a little more influence when dealing with a lawsuit, to have a little more charisma and confidence when asking your crush out on a date? Sorte has you covered. Have you ever wished ill upon your neighbor? not wanted to kill them or anything, just mildly inconvenience them? make them trip on a crack, lose a bet, have their glasses crack a little? sorte can do that too.

A few twisted strands of fate won't do any harm, but an entire city full of Fate Witches each pursuing wealth and power and petty grudges can spell doom for the world. Every strand pulled to increase power increases the power of the whole city, so that anything that goes on there affects everyone else. And because of that, the vindictive curses, the "bad luck", spreads like a cancer across the city, and then across the nation, and across the continent and the world.

the others are like that too. Bargainer Sorcery is evil in 7th Sea not because of who grants it (though the fact that it came from demonic entities should raise some eyebrows), but rather because it encourages vice, harms society, and ultimately pollutes the world with dangerous mystical fallout. when the Vaticine Church of the Prophets say that it is evil, it is not mere dogma, it is a verifiable fact, simply by looking at the fallout of it's use on the nations that use it. it's users don't go to hell simply because they used it, but because using it corrupts them and turns them to evil (or because they opened their eyes while walking through a porte portal and got dragged into the abyss by the creatures within, but that's beside the point).

sorcery in 7th Sea is about what would actually happen if humans got there hands on magic, or super powers. some would use it for good, certainly; it is possible for a player character to play a heroic sorcerer and save the world with clever uses of magic. in fact, it is almost expected that any given party will have at least one sorcerer in it. but society as a whole would suffer under the weight of unearned power, the world being ruled by the exact kinds of people who should never be in power.

anyways, those are my thoughts.

[disgruntledexplainer]

Reminds me of an adventure seed in the Die Kreuzritter sourcebook for 7th Sea where the Black Crosses (a paramilitary secret society embedded in and funded by the Vaticine Church of the Prophets who oppose the machinations of a composite eldritch horror known as Legion) are investigating a Legion (Satanic) Cult called The Cauldron, which was actually a front organization for the Inquisition (an out-of-control investigative arm of the Vaticine Church original meant to root out the demonic sorcery that feeds legion and track down predatory cults but has recently become obsessed with murdering scientists affiliated with the Vaticine Church and executing anyone who criticizes them), who is actively trying to prove that the Black Crosses use shadow sorcery (which they do, but mostly use it to hunt other sorcerers).

An FBI Agent goes undercover in a cult only to realise that all the members are undercover agents from different branches

[gardenofkore]

The town of Lilybaeum dignifies the Lilybaean tomb of the Sibyl. 

In Ancient Greece, Sibyls were women who prophesied under divine possession (usually Apollo’s) and for this reason they had to remain virgins. Among the various Sibyls, most famous was certainly the one who vaticinated in the Temple of Apollo in Delphi, the Pythia. 

Lilibeo Cape (also called Boeo Cape) is the extreme western point of Sicily. In 397 BC, Dionysius I, tyrant of Syracuse, attacked and destroyed the Phoenician colony situated on the isle of Motya. The survivors then founded on the mainland Lilýbaion (lat. Lilybaeum, nowadays Marsala) ”the town that looks on Libya” since from there the Tunisian coast in only 141 km far.

In the outskirt of Marsala, surrounded by the countryside, it can be found the church of San Giovanni al Boeo, built by the Jesuits in XVI century. Previously, the Basilian monastery of Santa Maria della Grotta (lit. St. Mary of the Cave), built in the XI century, once stood in the same area. The small church stands above the so-called Sibyll’s lair. The cave is nowadays around 4,8 meters deep, while in the past it might have been just 1,5 meters deep. It consists of a round principal room, connected to another two, one oriented to the North, while the other one to the West. The main room is partly dug into the rock and covered with a brick dome. A skylight connects it with the Church’s floor. The subterranean room’s floor is decorated with mosaics depicting sealife and most probably realized by African artists between II-III century AD. The fragments of frescoes on the walls (depicting symbolic subjects like a red seashell and at its sides two baskets of fruits, below two doves and bouquets of red roses or leaping fishes and lilies) are contemporary and might have been realized by the nascent Christian community of Lilybaeum. Both in the principal room and the one oriented to the North (equally covered with a dome), two wells pour into two basins. In the Western room, a cavity in the wall gave rise to the legend that it was the Sibyl’s bed. 

According to the tradition, in this cave, the Lilybaetan Sibyl lived and did her divinations. The presence of the wells might suggest her predictions involved the use of water (Cryptae illius aqua vaticinandi vim libantibantibus praebere creditur). By drinking the sacred waters, the prophetess was able to divine. The skylight was said to have been used by the worshippers to drop the offerings in the cave to receive in exchange a divine answer to their queries.

This cave was described among many by Diodorus Siculus in Bibliotheca Historica, XIII, 54 (I century BC); Gaius Iulius Solinus in Collectanea Rerum Memorabilium V, 2 (III century AD); Florentine poet Fazio degli Uberti in Dittamondo, III, 14 (1346); Sicilian Dominican friar Tommaso Fazello in  De Rebus Siculis Decades Duae (1574 -although he refers to her as the Cuman Sibyl); Dutch philologist and historian Jacques Philippe D’Orville in Sicula, quibus Siciliae veteris rudera, additis antiquitatum tabulis, illustrantur (1764 -he too talks about “Sibyllae Cumanae antrum & sepulcrum”); and French artist Jean-Pierre Houël realized a watercolor of it, which he included in his work Voyage pittoresque des isles de Sicile, de Malta et de Lipari[...] (1782).

Nevertheless, no mention is present in Cicero (who visited Marsala during the investigation against the former governor of Sicily, Gaius Verres) and no archaeological matches attest the concrete existence of this particular cult. It is possible although that the legend might be actually rooted in proto-historic rituals concerning a feminine prophet/healer deity (incidentally in the same area once stood a sanctuary dedicated in II century AD to Egyptian goddess Isis and her temples typically included underground tanks filled with sacred water) that would later merge with the figure of the Greek Sibyl. Indeed, water has always been a crucial point in healing and purification rituals in most religions and cults.

The advent of Christianity caused the disappearance of pagan sacred areas and traditions or their conversion into Christian ones. In this particular case, the water basins of the Sibyl’s lair ended up being used as baptismal fonts, the figure of the pagan prophetess substituted by St. John the Baptist (whose statue was later added in the underground room, placed on a stone altar), who of course has a strong relationship with water. Even the idea that those waters were somehow sacred or at least that they possessed peculiar virtues (specifically, healing ones) was preserved. Famous Sicilian folklorist Giuseppe Pitrè wrote in his book about Sicilian patronal festivals (Feste patronali in Sicilia, 1900) that for many centuries people kept visiting the underground sanctuary to be baptised or drink the holy water hoping to be purified or healed. Especially on St. John’s Eve (the night between 23-24 June), young unmarried women visited the ancient crypt and listened to the water (the so-called ritual of the scutu, listening) to find out if they would get married, while already married women wanted to know whether their husbands had been faithful or not. Also in this occasion, sick people immersed themselves three times (in Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost) in the water to get better. Giuseppe Pitrè also wrote St. John’s Day was chosen to perform bloodlettings and that during the day they could exceed the number of 400.

[keptin-indy]

7th Sea: The New World 21

Last time, the crew decided they’d had enough of the ATC’s villainy and took the fight straight to Fort Freedom.  They snuck into the administrative tower at night only to be stopped by the head of the Seahorses, the mysterious Mesquite.  Mesquite implied that they were a god and that taking down the ATC would interfere with their plans, but Ansgar promised to bring their case to the Vendel Guilds and try to get the Seahorses incorporated as the Couriers Guild.  Mesquite agreed and warned them of ominous research happening in the Snowflake Fort, told them the ATC’s CFO might help them, and then walked off the tower into the night.

Previous installments

Since they were at the top of the tower, the group decided to work their way down, hoping the guards would be taken unawares by an assault from that direction.  The uppermost apartment had two guards in the antechamber who managed to pull an alarm bell before they were battered with Ansgar’s lantern and Mariandl’s oddly heavy, metallic-sounding Book of the Prophets.  Misha stayed back by the stairwell to take care of any reinforcements trying to fight their way up.  The door to the inner chambers opened and a tall man who looked like he’d slept in his chain shirt and practical clothes stepped out.  Brandt politely asked him if he happened to be George Rourke, as he looked just like his pictures and Asngar said he didn’t approve of his business practices and then pummeled him with the heavy lantern.  The others all joined in, overwhelming Rourke until Brandt flourished his sword flashily and told him he was disappointed, as he’d heard Rourke had some kind of divine powers.  Rourke abruptly threw down his sword and told them in a Vodacce accent that this wasn’t worth his life.  Brandt asked if he was a body double and where the real Rourke was.  The Vodacce said he had no idea, he was just paid to sleep there sometimes.  Ansgar chained him up just in case while the others searched the apartment, yielding non-functional Syrneth artifacts, art objects no doubt stolen from the Ruhuri, and the business books, which were immediately turned over to Ansgar for examination.

Brandt wanted to split up to catch anyone trying to escape out the bottom of the tower, so Misha held on to him like a giant rescued damsel as the two of them rappelled down the tower on Brandt’s grappling hook.  The others stepped around the large pile of unconscious reinforcements Misha had left at the top of the stairs and continued downward to what was evidently the quarters of the chief slaver, Fleming Rudd.  The man himself didn’t appear to be in, but a quick search revealed him hiding under the altar cloth of his personal shrine.  Incensed at the man’s perversions of the Vaticine faith, she slammed his head between the altar and her metal-laced Book of the Prophets, yelling at him that his so-called faith wouldn’t save him.  Concerned for her, Etienne asked if she was alright, but she waved him off in favour of looking for any of Rudd’s writings justifying his belief in slavery and forced conversion for the “good” of the native Atabeans.  She privately struggled with the desire to just throw Rudd out the tower window, but recognized that her hatred of the man was mixing with her own  ongoing crisis of faith and realization that the Vaticine Church was not consistently a force for good.  Instead she gave the terrified man last rites to say that he was dead to her and the church and stole his religious texts to burn later.  Ansgar, an Objectionist, took a sturdy cross from the altar and smashed it into the lintel to leave an impression and a reminder.

At the base of the tower, Brandt and Misha set up camp outside the main entrance.  A group of guards arranged like an escort opened the door, saw them, and immediately closed it again.  Misha broke through the door after them while Brandt ran around to the servants entrance to cut them off.  However, before he got there, he caught sight of a mousy woman with tanned skin crawling out a window a couple stories up.  He stopped underneath to catch her when she inevitably fell because that’s what heroes in stories do, and was gratified when that’s exactly what happened (because she was startled by seeing him waiting for her).  Brandt asked if she was Annie Goldenflower and she unconvincingly insisted that he had the wrong person.  He played along anyway and put her down, asking why she was crawling out the window.  She pointed out that the tower was under attack and he gallantly offered to stay with her and protect her.  The two continued around to the servants entrance while Goldenflower obviously tried to find an opportunity to slip her escort.  Instead, they found Misha beating the tar out of a group of guards and body doubles.  Brandt pretended to be scandalized by Misha doing what he always does and asked the big Ussuran if he’d found Miss Goldenflower and to remember they had orders not to hurt her.  Misha was understandably confused and looked between Brandt and the woman who matched the description Mesquite had given them.  Goldenflower asked hesitantly why they weren’t supposed to her her and Brandt said they’d been told she wasn’t irredeemably corrupt like most of the rest of the ATC leadership.  Goldenflower told him he could drop the oblivious act but Brandt still acted surprised that she was the woman he’d been looking for, so Misha whapped him with an unconscious guard.  As the evidently more sensible of the two, Goldenflower asked Misha was what going on and he told her matter-of-factly that the ATC was evil and they were taking it down, but that Mesquite had told them she was a better person.

The others made their way down the tower and met up with the three of them.  Ansgar introduced himself to Goldenflower and said they were going to set up Mesquite with the Vendel League, but she wasn’t at all happy about this.  Ansgar wanted to know what her objections were but Brandt interjected that they’d heard Rourke was trying to turn himself into some sort of god and did she know anything about that?  Goldenflower was shocked and said the only thing she knew was that she’d been told to send a lot of funds to the Snowflake and Rourke had been spending most of his time there recently.  To Ansgar, she said the Vendel coming in would ruin all her plans: she’d been feeding the Ruhuri insider information so they could take over the trading business, but the organized League taking over instead would make that much harder.  She asked if they’d killed Rudd (no) and were going to kill Security Chief Ulriksdottir and Rourke (probably) and asked them to leave her tied up for plausible deniability’s sake so she could take over the company later and hand it to the Ruhuri (yes).  Brandt asked her for any information she had on the Snowflake and she told them she knew Rourke had hired some kind of sorcerers, but she didn’t know what magic they practiced.  She also told them about a passage under the outer wall but not into the fort itself and sketched them a rough map of the place.  

The officers left her tied up as requested and headed to the fort, which was obviously on high alert and heavily guarded.  They took the tunnel through the outer wall and discussed the best way to get inside while they were still safely underground.  Terrifyingly, the best idea ended up being for Brandt and Ansgar to cobble their gadgets together into a high-powered winch/slingshot and fling the group over the wall onto the fort’s roof.  No one else thought this was at all a sane plan, but they had little choice.

[disgruntledexplainer]

not to be a total nerd, but this reminds me of a little bit of text from the 7th Sea Game Master's Guide, regarding the Reformed Vaticine Church of the Prophets (a fictionalized merging of Roman Catholicism and Reformed Judaism). it was going over the beliefs of the church, and it had some interesting things to say about sin:

[...]

there is more, but the general gist of the text is that Theus (that world's version of God) does not declare things sins arbitrarily; anything that is sinful is so for a very good reason, a reason which can be easily enough determined from a simple analysis of the sin and the repercussions of committing it on those around you. gluttony is a sin because it harms your body and deprives food from those who need it, lust spreads disease, rots the mind, and tears apart families, greed is a drug that causes you to horde wealth and power but derive no pleasure from it, and as a result deprive others of what they need to live, and so on.

in other words, prohibition against sin is similar in nature to a mother telling a child not to touch the stove while she is cooking pasta; he could burn himself badly, or worse knock the pot over and scald both himself and his sister. or when a father tells his kids not to chase their ball into the street; it's not because he hates fun, or doesn't want his kid to have the ball, but rather because he doesn't want him to get run over. it is not random or arbitrary; it is purposeful and full of concern for his child's wellbeing.

[disgruntledexplainer]

John Wick doesn't understand Gnosticism, thank Theus

something I find rather amusing is that the author John Wick (not to be confused with the movie assassin), who wrote the TTRPGs Legend of the Five Rings and 7th Sea, has an incredible grasp of the history and behavior of a variety of religious a cultural groups, to the point where he can create compelling and nuanced fictional religions which I could very well see actually existing in the real world.

but his understanding of the associated terminology is essentially non-existent.

the most egregious case of this is the Reformed Vaticine Church of the Prophets from the 7th Sea setting. He describes it as if "the Catholic Church took a more gnostic approach to faith". except his interpretation of gnosticism is so vastly different than historical gnosticism that it is practically a complete inversion of it.

which is great, because gnosticism was some of the most incoherent elitism refuse to ever exist.

gnosticism, in all of it's variations, was a belief that man is saved by secret knowledge. this is as opposed to the Catholic belief that man is saved by faith through works. A Gnostic would believe in a secret scripture which provides the true path to salvation, and only those who comprehend this revelation could achieve salvation, or transcendence, or whatever else the particular sect desired. in effect, salvation was essentially restricted to the elite, literate, academic class, and of them only those who had that particular book. on top of that, the message of the book was deliberately obscured so only the worthy could obtain it, with the worthy being those of sufficient education.

gnosticism flew in the face of the Christian belief that God wants everyone, especially the poor and the simple, to be saved by His Grace. Gnosticism ultimately died because of it's bizarre mean-spirited nature and it's deliberate exclusivity appealed only to the ancient equivalent of the modern basement-dwelling neckbeard.

if you want a good example of what the Gnostics actually did, look at the Borborites. or don't, because they were rather vile in a way that makes those edgy atheists at the Satanic Temple look tame.

now, how exactly is the Reformed Vaticine Church of the Prophets, a supposed fictional "gnostic" faith, the inverse of this elitist pattern. while it puts a very large emphasis on learning and education, it COMPLETELY DROPS the exclusivity aspect of gnosticism. The Vaticine Church of the Prophets does EVERYTHING IN IT'S (rather considerable) POWER TO ENSURE THAT THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE POSSIBLE KNOW IT'S "SECRET" KNOWLEDGE. among other things, this means free education for everyone who seeks it, spreading literacy and scientific learning as far as possible.

further, it also drops the idea that knowledge alone saves, adopting a more Catholic perspective of the integration of faith and works. effectively, a member of the Vaticine faithful must not just KNOW the truth to be saved, but also act on it.

the reason for this is simple: John Wick, in his efforts to make Gnosticism make sense for an organized religion, inadvertantly MADE GNOSTICISM MAKE SENSE. he rationalized WHY secret knowledge would save someone, a sort of spiritual mechanic which does not really exist in true gnosticism.

the simple explanation of the Vaticine Church's beliefs on salvation is that everyone is saved by default (as opposed to real world christian and muslim belief that damnation is the default), allowing them to go to a heavenly realm of enlightenment upon death, but that a person's actions in life add a kind of "weight" to their soul which will ultimately drag them down to the Abyss. The Vaticine Church of the Prophets holds knowledge of WHICH ACTIONS SEND ONE TO THE ABYSS, WHICH THEY NOTABLY TRY TO MAKE PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE EVEN TO PEOPLE WITHOUT AN EDUCATION TO SPEAK OF. the Vaticine Church is also equiped with Sacraments to aid in the lifting of this weight where it already exists.

in short, they are anti-elitist.

all other seeking of knowledge for the Vaticines is a sort of bonus enlightenment. they believe that their God, Theus, literally created the world for the express purpose of allowing humans to understand it; as such the highest form of worship is philosophical and scientific investigation.

this is explicitly opposed to typically gnostic focus on knowledge which is essentially useless outside of the gnostic's desire to achieve salvation or transcendence; Vaticine knowledge ACTIVELY IMPROVED THE WORLD AROUND THE PRACTITIONER IN EXTREMELY PRACTICAL WAYS. Vaticine philosophy has resulted in a very egalitarian society in countries where their philosophy is the strongest, such as Castille, Eisen, and mainland Vodacce (though notably not the islands of Vodacce which are riddled by a horrifically inverted version of the faith). Vaticine science resulted in medical advances which actually HALTED THAT WORLD'S VERSION OF THE BLACK DEATH. in other words, where gnostics were simultaeneously elitist and useless, Vaticines are egalitarian and BADASS.

finally, theologically speaking the Vaticines have MUCH more in common with Reform Judaism than gnosticism. read the actual text of the core rulebooks to see what I mean. and of course structurally and behaviorally they are pretty much identical to the Catholic Church. there is not a true Gnostic feature to be seen, thank Theus.

Anyways, all that to say thank you John Wick for not understanding Gnosticism, it actually improved your fantasy world.

[euphoniouspandemonium]

Ok it's called Carrionmouth and it's a little hard to explain because there's like five povs but !! The gist of it:

I got interested in medieval european cities, which were built in such a way where they were almost self destructive — giant stone walls that trapped illnesses and fires inside, as well as people themselves. So I took that and ran with it !! and finally realised how fun world building truly is . lmao.

The city of Carrionmouth is obsessed with and built around death and decay and every building is full of taxidermy and, like, bones and stuff. It has its own micro religion with a fucked up culty church run for generations by the same family. It's told that the land it's built on was once the home of a giant magic bird that was supposedly heroically killed (... well.). It's run by both guilds and a noble family, and at the centre of Carrionmouth is the Vaticinator, a prophet and magician who's kind of its nucleus. It can't exist without him. It's also very hard to . leave. there's this sort of constant awareness that real life exists somehow completely outside of the city because Carrionmouth has always been dying, always been mouldy and brutal. So of course the common goal of the grand total of five MCs is to leave Carrionmouth for their own specific reasons !!!

Kes is the quiet playwright taken in by the noble family after his parents' deaths, commissioned by the duke's adventurous younger son, Hyacinth, to write a play about his life, in exchange for making Kes his travelling companion. Hyacinth is actually one of the few who regularly leave Carrionmouth for long periods of time and his character design and tastes are much more colourful than the rest of the setting, which is more so made up of red, black, white and grayish colours. Kes is in a very toxic relationship with Hyacinth's brother Flint, and is obsessed with both the outside world and Hyacinth, who is the closest he *can* come to seeing the outside world and represents the hedonistic lavishness and freedom he yearns for, yet is in a way as distant as that world. They make me cry every day. I ❤️ making myself unwell.

Two other players are Falcon, a very reckless knight, and her lover Codlet, the newest in the line of priests <3 codependent lesbians, we love that. Codlet has been pushed into giving up everything they love by their family and is dealing with a lot of religious trauma and they struggle with wanting anything, with autonomy. Fal on the other hand doesn't care about anyone's feelings, she'll do anything she desires, and what she desires *most* is to. keep Codlet safe. she wants leave Carrionmouth with them and construct a life with them somewhere far away. But, I mean, how easy is it to steal away a priest, right?

And remember the dead giant magic bird? The duke orders Carn, a young automaton maker, to "revive" it by making a functional automaton out of its bones, which are kept in a very secret chamber, though even Carn doesn't actually know *why* and what the bird is for. :3 They're less developed than the rest of the cast to be honest but they're very autism and they love making intricate little gifts for their friends. ALSO Hyacinth has a younger sister too, who is besties with Kes, she keeps finding sick animals and nursing them back to health and she's constantly kind of haunted. Such a mood fr.

And it all DOES tie together I promise. I also left out some darker details for everyone's sake but things get gorey and traumatic and depressing.

another thing is that I've taken inspiration from Venice carnival masks because they're cool & awesome

ok that's it bye

WHO wants to hear about my weird little fantasy WIP