#vaatu is probably the tlok villain whom i feel like was done the most dirty

[wilcze-kudly]

I read about your thoughts regarding Avatar Bolin and it honestly made me very curious as to the potential of what Vaatu could’ve been and then shifted to more questions. What would a Chaos Avatar be like? What would being a Chaos Avatar mean, and/or what would their roles be? How can that work alongside yet still clash with the Balance Avatar (aka the Avatar we know) & benefit the world in the same way balance and harmony does?

Well, that depends how much credit we give Vaatu.

I personally always felt more compelled to see the potential positive of Vaatu. He is described as the Spirit of Darkness and Chaos, but these traits aren't necessarily bad things.

The term 'Darkness' is prerty vague, but assuming it, for example, means darker urges or aspects of personality, that doesn't automatically mean "evil". Darker, negative emotions, reactions and urges are natural and useful in a lot of situations. We just need to know how to keep them in check and when to allow them to thrive.

Take the Spirits for example. One of the effects Vaatu has on them is that they turn "dark". But they also turn dark when they feel threatened, as a method of self defence. Which can definitely relate to how humans need more negative emotions to do things like defend ourselves both physically and emotionally, to set boundaries, etc.

I also theorise that Hei Bai from Atla was also in his "dark" form, due to his grief surrounding the destruction of his forest and lashing out at random people.

"Chaos" is also a term that doesn't have to be negative. Because chaos is sort of just the way of the world. We see it everywhere, in nature, in our everyday lives, in our history and probably in our future. We can try to micromanage every minute little detail of our lives, we can try to never leave anything to chance, but we still are subject to the rng of life.

And that probably can scare a lot of people, so it's no wonder we attribute chaos to the "bad spirit". It's also how irl humans dealt with the randomness of life.

While Raava is the spirit of Light and Peace/Order, which, while sounding very nice on paper can also be negative. Ever heard of "too much of a good thing"? "Good" traits like happiness can become toxic positivity, peacefulness can become passivity and indifference, order can become oppressive.

So it would be quite easy to see Vaatu as less of a Spirit of bad things and more of a spirit of things that humans don't really like. Things and concepts shunned and rejected by society or by humans.

So, where would that leave us with a potential Vaatu based Avatar?

Well, I'm not sure. While the Raava Avatar does have the very vague role of "keeping balance", they don't seem to have a set way of doing so, adapting more to their time period and environment, as well as their own personality.

Like there is a world of difference between Tax Boy Sheto and Aang the Reluctant Child Soldier y'know?

But if I had to guess that the Dark Avatar's goal would be more along the lines of "pushing the world to change and evolve"?

Be it by helping out rebels with a cause that seems just to them, or by working with some type of scientist, or by leading a military, heloing explore new lands... whatever can be described as pioneering, discovering, restructuring, changing, that's where they're at.

So while the Raava Avatar would try to mitigate a conflict completely, the Vaatu Avatar would make a judgement call based more on what they believe would be a more positive change to the world.

Of course, once again, this will probably vary from Avatar to Avatar. Since Raava Avatars have changed the world, by trying ro acheive balance, after all. These concepts will probably mix and vary depending on the individual Avatar's understanding of the concepts.

And whether they work together with or go up against the Raava Avatar depends on both the Avatars too. Their history together, their personalities, the time period they're in and the situation they're dealing with. While they might have diametrically opposed reasons for doing what they do, they still are individuals and they are fulfilling a rather nebulous concept so anything goes ig.

I can also see the Vaatu Avatar being treated with much more disdain and fear than the Raava Avatar, since they are still meant to be the embodiment of darkness and chaos and I think a lot of people would naturally not wanna hang out with you then.

With could kinda tie into their potential relationships with their "better halves". Like "why is the colour our eyes glow such a big deal why does everyone hate me and love you we are both 12 years old and have done nothing to deserve either except harbour spirits within us" or smth.

I can see the White Lotus for example trying to just keep the Vaatu Avatar on lockdown and not let them out ever, because they believe they would throw the world out of balance.

But I think that in this AU, the lack of a Vaatu Avatar could cause society and the world to stagnate and begin to rot as old, outdated ideologies, concepts systems remain rooted into the world, refusing to grow as humans and the world grow.

[shadelorde]

okay so after my ten empty reblogs I’d LOVE to potentially add on to the part about dark spirits and why Vaatu’s influence turns them dark. (I’m normal about Vaatu I promise <-liar of all time, I’m known as that Vaatu fan person in many spaces)

So, there’s really three? Main scenes where we see this happen. Beginnings Part 2, on the Air Lion Turtle, same episode when the humans burn down the forest, and Darkness Falls/Light in the Dark where dark spirits circle around an imprisoned Vaatu.

I think that Vaatu tends to amplify grief and anger in other spirits, or use existing grief to ‘turn them dark’ (Raava comments on this, though I do take issue with how it’s presented), but I ALSO think him turning other spirits is an extension of his own grief and anger.

For the first part, I think on the air lion turtle, he creates a sort of feedback loop. He uses some of his influence to turn spirits dark, and then uses the fear and upset that creates to gain a stronger hold on them. This time, we see him use it to gain strength and power - however, I’d note, compared to the destructive wrath of the spirits the second time he does this, they’re still relatively weak and can be fought off easily. To me, this indicates that their (and Vaatu’s) existing negative emotions aren’t that strong.

The second time, the spirits are already angry and grieving the loss of their forest. Vaatu shows up, and Raava talks about how he’s using their anger to turn them to his side. Personally, I don’t like the idea that Vaatu is only using their anger for his gain or that dark spirits automatically fall under Vaatu’s influence (demonstrably false), but we do see him amplify their grief. They’re far more destructive this time, with Vaatu implying that they killed all of the humans while Wan was unconscious - the spirits were more distressed this time, but I think Vaatu was angrier as well. He is the spirit of chaos, and we see him form a connection with nature and plant life (with the spirit wilds he creates that refuse to be damaged), so I think he’d also be upset to see a forest burnt.

But the third time, when he’s imprisoned/just freed, he still has a grip on dark spirits, with them circling around him and attacking the main characters. But they had not previously been angry or upset. When turned light, they behave quite calmly.

I think this time, it was fully an extension of Vaatu’s distress. And the show supports it! In ‘A New Spiritual Age’ (I believe) Iroh says that Korra’s emotions affect the world around her. She has the power to turn spirits dark too, and he additionally notes that because she’s the avatar, her influence is particularly powerful.

So I think that Vaatu was grieving HEAVILY, all the years he had lost and the injustice and the anger, so he extended that to other spirits. (And I think he was still very distressed while as the dark avatar, but that goes into a theory about unalaq and vaatu’s relationship I won’t explain right now). Like you said, as a method of self defense, spirits become dark.

Anyways, amazing analysis!

I read about your thoughts regarding Avatar Bolin and it honestly made me very curious as to the potential of what Vaatu could’ve been and then shifted to more questions. What would a Chaos Avatar be like? What would being a Chaos Avatar mean, and/or what would their roles be? How can that work alongside yet still clash with the Balance Avatar (aka the Avatar we know) & benefit the world in the same way balance and harmony does?

Well, that depends how much credit we give Vaatu.

I personally always felt more compelled to see the potential positive of Vaatu. He is described as the Spirit of Darkness and Chaos, but these traits aren't necessarily bad things.

The term 'Darkness' is prerty vague, but assuming it, for example, means darker urges or aspects of personality, that doesn't automatically mean "evil". Darker, negative emotions, reactions and urges are natural and useful in a lot of situations. We just need to know how to keep them in check and when to allow them to thrive.

Take the Spirits for example. One of the effects Vaatu has on them is that they turn "dark". But they also turn dark when they feel threatened, as a method of self defence. Which can definitely relate to how humans need more negative emotions to do things like defend ourselves both physically and emotionally, to set boundaries, etc.

I also theorise that Hei Bai from Atla was also in his "dark" form, due to his grief surrounding the destruction of his forest and lashing out at random people.

"Chaos" is also a term that doesn't have to be negative. Because chaos is sort of just the way of the world. We see it everywhere, in nature, in our everyday lives, in our history and probably in our future. We can try to micromanage every minute little detail of our lives, we can try to never leave anything to chance, but we still are subject to the rng of life.

And that probably can scare a lot of people, so it's no wonder we attribute chaos to the "bad spirit". It's also how irl humans dealt with the randomness of life.

While Raava is the spirit of Light and Peace/Order, which, while sounding very nice on paper can also be negative. Ever heard of "too much of a good thing"? "Good" traits like happiness can become toxic positivity, peacefulness can become passivity and indifference, order can become oppressive.

So it would be quite easy to see Vaatu as less of a Spirit of bad things and more of a spirit of things that humans don't really like. Things and concepts shunned and rejected by society or by humans.

So, where would that leave us with a potential Vaatu based Avatar?

Well, I'm not sure. While the Raava Avatar does have the very vague role of "keeping balance", they don't seem to have a set way of doing so, adapting more to their time period and environment, as well as their own personality.

Like there is a world of difference between Tax Boy Sheto and Aang the Reluctant Child Soldier y'know?

But if I had to guess that the Dark Avatar's goal would be more along the lines of "pushing the world to change and evolve"?

Be it by helping out rebels with a cause that seems just to them, or by working with some type of scientist, or by leading a military, heloing explore new lands... whatever can be described as pioneering, discovering, restructuring, changing, that's where they're at.

So while the Raava Avatar would try to mitigate a conflict completely, the Vaatu Avatar would make a judgement call based more on what they believe would be a more positive change to the world.

Of course, once again, this will probably vary from Avatar to Avatar. Since Raava Avatars have changed the world, by trying ro acheive balance, after all. These concepts will probably mix and vary depending on the individual Avatar's understanding of the concepts.

And whether they work together with or go up against the Raava Avatar depends on both the Avatars too. Their history together, their personalities, the time period they're in and the situation they're dealing with. While they might have diametrically opposed reasons for doing what they do, they still are individuals and they are fulfilling a rather nebulous concept so anything goes ig.

I can also see the Vaatu Avatar being treated with much more disdain and fear than the Raava Avatar, since they are still meant to be the embodiment of darkness and chaos and I think a lot of people would naturally not wanna hang out with you then.

With could kinda tie into their potential relationships with their "better halves". Like "why is the colour our eyes glow such a big deal why does everyone hate me and love you we are both 12 years old and have done nothing to deserve either except harbour spirits within us" or smth.

I can see the White Lotus for example trying to just keep the Vaatu Avatar on lockdown and not let them out ever, because they believe they would throw the world out of balance.

But I think that in this AU, the lack of a Vaatu Avatar could cause society and the world to stagnate and begin to rot as old, outdated ideologies, concepts systems remain rooted into the world, refusing to grow as humans and the world grow.