#unshallow feelings

[unshallow-feelings]

I keep forgetting people don't ship things in the same way I do because every time I see someone ask who in Ivantill tops my asexual self is sitting there like, y'all are in this for sex????

[ivanttakethis]

For context, this a follow up to @crustyfloor’s great addition to my post about wanting Ivan to live for Ivan and not just for the sake of IvanTill.

My response just got so long, I thought it’d be better to make it a separate post so here we are!

“‘I wish Ivan lived for Till’ His relationships aren't all there is to him.”

THIS. RIGHT. HERE.

There is so much more to Ivan and it pains me that people don't see it or don't care.

And I get it, like @rockwgooglyeyes said there is a fair amount of focus on shipping in fandoms, and relationships are an integral part of the larger narrative of Alien Stage, but there's more to these characters than that.

Ironically enough, even Ivan views himself as nothing more than someone in service of Till. Ivan doesn't think he's much of anything without him.

Having Ivan live and be rescued by the rebels is the perfect opportunity to change all of that.

He would be completely cut off from his previous life (the aliens, Alien Stage, Till, etc.) and forced to reckon with who he is as a person when nothing is demanded of him anymore.

Let him finally drop the mask and get more comfortable showing his true personality.

Let him get his hands dirty with the rebellion, build his self-esteem from the ground up, and grow to live for himself.

Let him reconnect with Mizi! Have him realize that there are people who care about him and would miss him if he was gone. That there can be more to his life than always chasing, endlessly giving, and never receiving.

I would LOVE to see him have an arc of character development like Mizi. I’d pay for it, even.

This is probably controversial for me to say, but one of my main criticisms of Ivan canon-wise is that he doesn't grow much as a character, if at all.

From the beginning to where we are now, Ivan has always been laser focused on Till. Everything we learn about Ivan is tied to Till in some way. Even in the comics or art we get involving him, they almost always include Till.

I was joking before with my tags about Ivan not thinking about anything other than Till. But what do we know about Ivan that doesn't have anything to do with Till?

We learned that he's the only character that wasn't bred and lived his early years on the streets as a stray, but nothing beyond that???

Like that's such an interesting story idea to include and we know next to nothing about it!

And then Ivan sacrifices himself for Till. Something he would've done at any point in the story.

Nothing changed. His arc is flat. His character is static.

(And to be honest I kind of feel like this was done just as a means to further Till's character development—*runs away*)

There's still a chance to show people who Ivan is.

Not Ivan Unsha. Not "Till's lover boy".

Ivan.

I hope we get to see him.

Shoutout to everyone in the notes of the original post, your takes are all incredibly based! @unshallow-feelings @nottoonedin @paradisedisconcert @atrophiedemotion @m1zisua @hoisinblackcat

[jacuzziwaters]

I did it.

It's not done but it's getting there and I'm impatient.

New Side Blog @unshallow-feelings

[bikelock28]

Bill and Fleur?

Now you’re talking! The best couple everrrrrr. Of course I ship.

What made you ship it?

All of the reasons below. I came quite late to Bleur. It’s only in the last few years I’ve realised how awesome they are (ngl I came late to all HP couples that aren’t Romione).

What are your favourite things about the ship?

Fleur especially has a very specific characterisation. But we see little of Bleur’s relationship on-page. That’s the ideal combo- lots of characterisation to grasp, lots of missing moments to explore.

Hospital. Wing. It’s romantic AF. It’s a shock for the characters and, let’s be honest here, the reader, that Fleur is so unshallow and committed to bill. Obviously I love Molly but I also love how much of a dressing-down Fleur gives her and how accurate her assessment is of what Molly thought of her.

A wedding is always a good setpiece.

I mentioned in the Hinny answer that Hinny lack conflict. It’s possible to argue the same with Bleur, but I think the war, the Weasleys, The French Thing, and the fact that they’re not at school, create plenty of interesting situations of conflict

Their relationship throws light on other couples (Romione, Remadora, Hinny a bit, maybe Mr & Mrs W?) as it so contrasts them so much (Bleur are actually a, you know, couple- something 3 of the ships I just mentioned have trouble with), AND THEN they have a wedding- one big event where ideas/relationships can A. Feel intensified, B. Be developed and explored. E.g in Bleur’s wedding you’ve got loads of Romione stuff (he asks her to dance! He’s never done anything like that before! He tells her she “looks great”, they both meet Krum, they’re mistaken for an item), Harry thinking over his breakup with/still being possessive over Ginny, Lupin stressing about how he’s going to get through this bloody day when Tonks only recently told him she’s preggers. Imagine being any of those characters in those situations, while in the romance-filled, happy, celebration of a wedding. Especially of such a soppy, horny, demonstrative couple!

Absolute gangstas, the pair of ‘em.

Absolute lookers, the pair of ‘em.

Listeners of the Binge Mode podcast will remember Jason’s discussions of how horny Bleur were- thinking about it makes me giggle to this day. 

Nice to see a happy, long-term relationship which develops during canon era.

Yo Fleur, you see that cute guy hanging around after your peer has just DIED in the 3rd task? Go get him babe.

I love Bill being the coolest big bro who lands the hot wife. And I love that to him it probably doesn’t seem as simple at that sounds!

I just love Fleur so much, I could talk about her all day (ask if you want more of my thoughts!).

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

Well they’re not a very popular ship are they? Not unpopular, just generally quite overlooked/ambivalent. So my unpopular opinion is that they should be more loved and there should be lots more fanfic/fanart about them!

More weird than unpopular- I really struggle to realistically visualise Fleur, in my head she often ends up looking like Princess Elsa.

[ivanttakethis]

Damn, they grinkled me 😔

@billwasnot @shakingparadigm @unshallow-feelings @hoisinblackcat @vesper-leroy @atrophiedemotion get grinkled

[uchihadumpsterfire]

It... actually really bothers me that Itachi’s torture via Tsukuyomi of his seven year old brother is... kind of rewarded by the narrative by having Sasuke’s trauma manifest in exactly the way that Itachi wanted and planned for? In that Sasuke was intensely motivated to come find him and kill him, and had the drive to seek the skills to do that? I mean, if you disregard all of the ways it didn’t go to plan, what with Sasuke leaving the village and not being in a position to be labeled a hero, but he doesn’t seem to care about Sasuke’s mental wellbeing beyond ‘alive’, and he has a back up plan to literally brainwash the brother he loves into working for the canonically corrupt village if he turns against it, so that’s not an issue. But if Orochimaru never bit Sasuke and put the curse mark on him, it could be argued that Itachi’s plan may have worked to a T.

And trauma... doesn’t work that way? People react to it in different ways and you can’t predict at the outset how it’s going to go? Honestly if somebody told me that it was canon that Itachi added an element of suggestion or outright brainwashing to his Tsukuyomi to make his brother act in the way he thought was best for him, I would not be surprised and consider it in character. I suppose there’s the argument that he knew that Sasuke would react that way because of the Curse of Hatred, but even if I didn’t hate the CoH for reminding me too much of those bigots who use “science” to prove another groups inferiority, I would hate it from a writing stand point because it actively makes the situation LESS nuanced and the writing weaker.

And then the few people who find out what he did are like “wow,,, what a tragic and noble hero” and Kishimoto goes OUT OF HIS WAY to convince us (via informing us that Itachi was fit to be Hokage as a fricken toddler or something, which, NO) that every part of Itachi’s plan was literally the only thing he could have done in that situation and there’s not a single person in my memory who tells Sasuke that no matter what his intentions were, Itachi was in the wrong for hurting him. Or even that Itachi was put in a difficult situation but it still sucked that Sasuke went through that much pain and suffering.

(And look;;; I KNOW that Sasuke is a controversial character. I know what people think of his canon self and sometimes I even agree. Sometimes I feel like Kishimoto completely destroyed his character after Itachi’s retraumatization-no-jutsu, sometimes I feel like his character makes sense when I look at in from an in-universe perspective, and that Kishimoto just did a bad job conveying his grief and trauma in a completely unshallow way. BUT. Even in the interpretation that Sasuke is trash and completely irredeemable after he leaves the village, THAT STILL DOESN’T MEAN THE LITERAL SEVEN YEAR OLD DESERVED WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM. The fact that his trauma doesn’t excuse the fact that Sasuke hurt other people doesn’t mean that Itachi’s actions were any way right or good).

And... it makes me want SO MANY FIC where Itachi’s terrible, controlling, traumatizing plan was destroyed before it could get off the ground JUST by... Sasuke having a different reaction to trauma than the one he wanted. There are so many ways you could go:

-Sasuke becomes depressed and washes out of the academy! Trauma can effect you executive functions, and having Sasuke just... not be able to keep up with his training and school work, not even being able to get out of bed some days. Being the last Uchiha and the council seeing themselves as entitled to his powers and his loyalty, they try to find ways to push him but ultimately they can’t justify passing him when he won’t be useful in the field. All that potential stagnating because he had a response to trauma many real people have. (This Sasuke is super in danger from Danzo because you really think he’s just going to let him lay around as a civilian?)

-Sasuke passes, but even though he was ok fighting with other kids back at the academy, when he gets in a real fight he has flashbacks and panic attacks. If it doesn’t straight up get him killed in battle, it almost does, and they are eventually forced to bench him when it becomes clear the problem isn’t going away. (Hey,,, maybe in this world they’ll realize that he needs some mental treatment and give him some instead of leaving him to waste away in the Uchiha compound? ...unlikely)

-Instead of becoming obsessed with vengeance, Sasuke becomes obsessed with the idea that a) you cannot trust anyone, no matter how kind they seem, and b) Sasuke is a danger to everyone around him and cannot let himself get close to anyone who is ACTUALLY good because if he does then Itachi will come back and kill them. This Sasuke still comes across as an arrogant loner, and still wants to get stronger, but in this case the motivation is explicitly to protect people or at least not be a danger to them. He’s terrified of letting anyone in but when he finally gets close to his team or something his Nindo is to protect them even at the cost of his own life. There’s a case to be made that a lot of these aspects are present in pre retraumatization-no-jutsu Sasuke, but here it’s the main focus, and he puts their lives over potential vengeance, etc.

-Some actual post traumatic growth? IDK, i don’t know how likely it’d be given that the village sent him back to the place of his trauma and left him to live there for years completely isolated from the rest of the village, but I guess it’s possible.

And in all of them, Itachi having to confront that HE DID A BAD and him hurting his brother was not something necessary for the greater good but a cruel attempt at controlling him that didn’t even work. Because... it REALLY bugs me that it DID, in a fashion, work.

[unshallow-feelings]

Thought too hard about Ivantill while listening to Are We Still Friends by Tyler The Creator

100 dead, 500 injured

[ivanttakethis]

List 5 things that make you happy, then put this in the askbox for the last 10 people who reblogged something from you! get to know your mutuals and followers!!!!

Another five things that make me happy!

Good naps

Home-cooked meals

Playing The Sims

Fall/Wintertime

Looking up at the night sky (the moon and the stars)

More tags (no pressure): @rockwgooglyeyes @unshallow-feelings @atrophiedemotion @crustyfloor @vesper-leroy @4listr @nottoonedin @paradisedisconcert @am-cogitoergosum @billwasnot

[rockwgooglyeyes]

@unshallow-feelings's tags ^

To be honest I think his obsession with Till would lessen because his attention would be dispersed between multiple people who he cares about as well as things he's devoting his attention to rather than just one person- he's not really comfortable and he's not allowed to rest on his laurels while he's in the rebellion, at least not those first few years. I think that his obsession overall lessens to something that is closer to just passion rather than "staring at you really close like you are a bug" obsession. He's not more normal, necessarily, just a little bit more mellowed out because he has been given the space to kind of sit with himself and introspect without the expectation of it being used for anything transactional.

It's not a interview, it's not forced, he's realizing things about himself because someone makes a comment about his looks and he realizes he really doesn't care, or he wins a game of cards with Hyuna, Dewey and Isaac and realizes that he's competitive, or something like that. He's given the chance to actually be a kid rather than the latest freak at the freak show or the prettiest boy at the ball who nobody gets to touch because then they'll get fingerprints on the glass. That's kind of the whole point of this AU, if that makes any sense, it's about Ivan and Mizi being given a place to be themselves outside of the person that they've defined themself by for so long.

It's about a devotee being given a chance to be away from their god and see if that god is really worth believing in.

concept based on the “what if?” of “what if Ivan didn’t go back with Till when they ran away and instead ended up with the rebellion?”

(also based on this post from @alalnsted)

note: this is going off of the assumption that they were in their early teens during their escape attempt (~13-14)

While watching Till run back to the garden despite being given a chance at freedom, Ivan comes to the conclusion that nothing he can ever give Till will be enough. If nothing Ivan could ever offer Till would compare to Mizi, and he only annoys Till, then he has no real reason to stay. Ivan believes that Till will be happier without him around bothering him constantly and he will be forced to watch Till be in love with Mizi, as well, so he chooses to leave instead. He thinks of it as a selfish decision, leaving his friends and his beloved behind, but he also thinks that they will be better off without him, so it’s not that hard of a pill to swallow.

After leaving, Ivan kind of just drifts for a while before crossing paths with Hyuna, who he recognizes from the Garden. Hyuna recognizes him too and scoops him up off of the street because he reminds her of Luka and if she can take care of Ivan, and he turns out fine, then maybe that will mean that she didn’t fail Luka (and that she didn’t fail Hyun-Woo, by extension)

Taken under Hyuna’s wing, Ivan grows up into someone a little more crass and brusque than his charming persona in canon- as Para (@shakingparadigm) said, his child self is actually really close to his real self, and his child self is blunt, quiet and stoic- and I think that if Hyuna, Dewey and Isaac were some of the figures he was growing up around as a teenager, he would end up presenting more authentically insofar as he would kind of lean into that more brutally-honest side that we can see when he's a little kid. He might be a little more sarcastic and outright rude but he would still have some of his more playful nature we see in his canon adult self (after all, Hyuna’s definitely easygoing and witty, and she, Dewey and Isaac definitely seem like they enjoy just fooling around and shootin' the shit together)

Ivan becomes the rebellion’s bookkeeper! He would still be able to fight and go on missions himself but he would mostly make sure that the money and the documents are in order, allowing the rebellion to execute more covert missions and stay on budget. I just think he’s more of a strategist/planner than someone on the front lines.

At his canon age of ~22 (I think), the new ALNST contestants are announced and he realizes that Sua, Mizi and Till are part of that group, I think he would probably panic. The human rebellion in and of itself seems like it is focused on dismantling ALNST as an institution anyways so having a mission surrounding the upcoming season makes sense but Ivan initially removes himself from it, because it’s personal and he doesn’t want that kind of attachment to cloud his judgment. Hyuna drags him into it, either right before Round 1 or after Sua dies (I really don’t know if I want to keep Sua dying in or not because as much fun as it would be to have Sua, the whole point of this AU is kind of to have Ivan and Mizi both grow on their own, separate from their partners. Ivan would get to do that pre-ALNST and Mizi would do it afterwards). Ultimately, they save Mizi. She and Ivan have a tearful reunion. Though she isn’t happy with him for making her think he was dead, she forgives him.

Eventually they save Till, too, but that’s actually less important tbh. I mean. Ivan and Till have a reunion and Till is glad to see that Ivan is still alive and that Mizi is still alive and he has to work through his own guilt and Ivan is kind of just . . . tired because he might still be in love with Till but at the same time, he came to terms with the fact that Till would never love him back a long, long time ago and he’s way past hoping for something like that

I'm thinking of writing something with this idea but if anyone has any notes or ideas in regards to this AU please let me know! I have some doodles for it that I'm probably gonna post later today or tomorrow . . . who knows though haha

[kmp78]

I don’t know what I’ll do if T doesn’t come back. I might be prematurely panicking, but it really won’t be the same without him. Honestly when I first started listening to the band, I was all about T. This pic was at the height of my crush on him. I loved that beard lol and I thought it was very cool that he was classically trained and he just seemed like such an unshallow chill person. And the friendship between him and S was adorable. I was never really into J other than the fact that he’s nice to look at.

***

justamarsgrrl - Speaking for myself, I´m extremely “meh” about this.

Yes it would be a bummer if TM left, but if I´m being totally honest here...

TM isn´t really doing much for Mars lately.

That is NOT his fault, however. Blame belongs on JL´s doorstep.

But be that as it may, TM still has been in the shadows for so long now, I don´t really feel any different if he is or is not on that stage.

Also I have to say that I think my Getafe experience does weigh in on this. I mean, I have already seen 20 Seconds to Mars on stage once before, as have many others out there. For us who belong to that constantly growing club, this is like... been there, seen that!

Now we just have a different cast of characters making up 20 Seconds to Mars, but that really is the only difference in the end.

(Disclaimer and rules)

[simptasia]

3

“list your fandoms and one character from each that you identify with”

oh fuck

okay so i’m not listing EVERY SINGLE FANDOM i’m in because that’s fucking ridiculous so i’ll just go for ones i can think of, ya know, the big ones

for obvious reasons, i may be repetitive. like, i’m listing characters who remind me of me in some way. so expect a lot of ND and/or sweetheart characters

community: abed nadir. for being the best, well written portrayal of an autistic character that i’ve ever seen. of course, every autistic person is different and i’m not exactly like abed (i’m moody and expressionate) but like, he’s so well done. and his main special interest is my main special interest: fiction. we’re both basically living tvtropes.org. i love it. and most autistic characters on tv get spec interests like maths or detective stuff. which is great but What About Me

lost: hurley. of all the lost characters, hurley is def the one most like me (i’m mostly a hurley/jack fusion. yeah.) like, he has this positive aura that causes other people to be better people. but also people don’t always take him seriously or they find him frustrating at times. and how he wants to make everybody around him happy, whilst also struggling deeply with his mental illnesses. the whole sad clown/stepford smiler thing. if i was a fictional character, i feel like i’d be like him, like… he’s a character who comes across like he should just be comic relief, but he’s so. much. more. oh my fucking gosh, i love hurley

ghostbusters: ray stantz. RAY IS ME IF I WAS A GHOSTBUSTER. heart of the ghostbusters so legit autistic

x-men: charles xavier. all x-men characters are relatable by default due to the whole outsider thing (and the allegories, so many allegories) but charles is definitely the one i most see myself in. i’m, of course, referring to the movieverse version, because the comic versions of charles have some issues with morality. movie!charles is far more kinder and good of heart in a very genuine way. also the mcavoy one is the one that’s the most #me. like, here’s this character defined by hope and empathy. like, it’s been made clear to me that i’m empathic to the point of being in pain. and boy, if that ain’t charles. these traits are his greatest strength but also his greatest weakness. basically… first class/apoc for when i’m up, dofp for when i’m down. like, charles is like me, because he’s somebody who has absolutely faith in the basic goodness of people, despite knowing different. he has the information to be a realist but he’s an absolute idealist. also how he’s on the verging of breaking at any given moment 

(i’m aware that everything i’ve said here also applies to nightcrawler, who is my absolute fave, but charles also has a lot of relatable behaviours on top of all that, which puts him firmly in the slot of “most me x-men character”)

lord of the rings: samwise gamgee. of all the hobbits sam is the one who’s most like me. and, like, i’ve never properly been able to explain why i say that. i guess i can attribute it to him being made of love and also he’s an incorruptible being? also he just wants to stay home and have a family

disney animated features: belle. she probs reminds me so much of me because this was formative movie for me. anyways, like, listen to all the stuff the townsfolk are singing about her in the song “belle” and that pretty much sums up why i find her relatable. also she’s an unshallow nerd. hello, point of the movie

pacific rim: newton geiszler. oh my fucking gosh. newt, oh gosh, newt, how do i even explain this. newt… is me. he’s an emotional raw nerve. he’s a landmark of neurodivergent relatability in media. he’s obsessive, self-absorbed and enthusiastic. like that charlie day screeching info dumping kinda way. on that note, i also find charlie kelly from always sunny disturbingly relatable. the best way i can phrase it is that: charlie = me as a kid, newt = teen to now. yeah, try to wrap around your head around that concept. anyways, the absolute lovable instability. also newt is somebody who loves his spec interest (and everything he’s into), like, all the way. no holding back. not a hint of detached irony. newt is the physical manifestation of going really fucking hard on ur special interest(s)

there’s definately a lot more but those are the ones i felt like doing

basically i relate to nerds/geeks, outsiders, socially weird people, anybody neurodivergent, people who scream/cry a lot and people with loving & idealistic/hopeful dispositions. also i find it amusing that one person (me) can find both charles xavier and newton geiszler equally and passionately relatable

people are complex creatures

[carnage-scissors]

HI!

This was made from me thinking again (I think about it A LOT, and I remembered it today) about a version of the story of Orpheus leaving the Underworld with Eurydice ( this ). The singing while they leave together to tell each other they're there, specifically, spoke to me when thinking of this.

If I must suffer, I'm taking people down with me. ^^

You're right though in the "Ivan disappeared from his life when he finally looked at him" though. That's part of it. I'm so glad you understand my vision. Put these two together. I'm so sorry. (No, I am not.)

[ Image 1 Description: A screenshot of tags that read "# OP I hate you so much for this # I need so many people to see this post # I had to set my phone down out of sorrow # good lord # because in the moment Till truly looked at Ivan that's when he disappeared from Till's life # OP I HOPE THOSE PILLOWS ARE WARM TONIGHT # ivantill # unshallow feelings # alnst angst # alnst au # greek mythology au". End Image description]

[Image 2 Description: A transparent PNG of the "1 More" attack pop up from Persona 5. End Image description]

Eurydice Ivan and Orpheus Till. Do you see my vision? Do you understand? The haunting? Please someone has GOT to understand.

[datingadviceonreddit]

I think we all know that we tend to choose long-term partners based on desirable characteristics no matter how "unshallow" we are. We prefer good-looking, healthy, and successful long-term partners. I think it goes back to evolutionary instincts. We know that such partners possess "positive" genes which can be passed on to your offspring.And then there goes ADHD. It is a negative or not bad enough to be driven to extinction. While I do have ADHD (a negative), I do have other positives so I am not at the bottom of the barrel. I do think it is a bad thing though and makes you lose in the dating game. Given all things were equal, you won't pick a partner with a mental disorder to have kids with. You don't want your kids to have a mental disorder. Men who are serious about having kids will hence probably not pick me. At least the ones who have really desirably characteristics will not pick me.So I can't help but think that my ADHD will force me to marry "down" for other aspects, simply because my ADHD will make me less of a catch. Nobody will think of someone with a mental disorder as a catch. Of course, good-looking people such as Zooey Deschanel and David Beckham have mental disorders, but their extremely nice appearance "compensated" for that and still made them a catch. via /r/dating_advice

[unshallow-feelings]

Somebody needs to make an Ivantill animatic using Park's cover of Heather post haste

[unshallow-feelings]

CURE [ALIEN STAGE] | mizisua + ivantill / group version.

Why are y'all so depressed actually 😭

[danielsarmand]

#One thing I love about this chapter is how unambiguous it is.#I feel like Anne Rice knew this was the kind of thing people would be twisting themselves in knots to explain away and misconstrue.#and miss rice said no!!! you will see my vision in explicit detail!!! you will not deny me!!!#Daniel saw a monsterous creature responsible for death innumerable disguised as a soft-spoken gentle beautiful boy#and he fell in love BECAUSE of the evil! not despite of it!#THAT'S why he's the king monsterfucker!#Armand could look like the Cryptkeeper and as long as he fed Daniel blood and killed people daily he would still love him.#And AMC is gonna show us that Armand is equally as unshallow when he turns a 70 year old man into a willing c*md*mpster! (@wizardpink)

tumblr user klausbens is a daniel molloy kinnie confirmed because i don't think i have ever related this much to anything ever in my life