#typologyposting

[enneamage]

Have you read john luckovich's book/articles about the instinctual variants?

I just went through a couple of his online articles, I'll keep an eye on this guy. He seems a bit woo, but most of the enneagram writing is. I get itchy when things start to advance in a culty direction, though, and having just peeped the blog and a few of the linked websites my hairs are kinda raised. 

It's a concept that on its face is kind of impossible to disprove, the idea that we are driven to one-on-one connection, broader social belonging and self-preservation to some degree. I think that's why I pulled back from it a bit at first, the idea with leading / being weak with "one of the drives" seemed a bit too reductive at first, especially when people really go literal on the idea of a 'sexual' instinct.

He did interesting things with the sx instinct in his writing so far. The desire to be a tropical bird that can cultivate interest and spice in life does ring true for the people who I would have slotted under that umbrella, but I think he gave a little bit too much of its domain over to the Social instinct in the name of being literal over being right (comes off too self-focused.)

I think I've been getting half-into the idea of instinctual variants because some type descriptions can make it look / sound like some types just don't care about certain things at all, which on an individuality level just can't be true, so seeing descriptions get specific enough to include stuff back in is nice.

[enneamage]

incomprehensible post time: I've been looking more at instinctual variants, and my relationship to them has shifted to "they're not as real / as important as the core stuff, and they're useful for splitting hairs." I've been using them to suss out more details and specifics to make types fit better, but I still don't buy into every part of the way it's 'supposed to' work.

[enneamage]

idk if you talked about this but i was curious about how depression might affect someones enneagram (or perception of it)

This one is going to vary a lot by both type and by what a person's depressive symptoms are. A person might express more of their negative type-typical habits, experience type disintegration (acting more like the type you go to under stress rather than the core one) or act 'out of character' for both of those, depending on the situation.

Someone could be more cautious or more reckless depending how it affects impulse control and motivation. If someone would theoretically be 'more outgoing' on average but finds themselves low energy or afraid of other people, that would change things too. 

I tend to assume that these questions come from people trying to find their type, but it occurred to me that you didn't say that specifically so I could go a lot of different places with this. This topic is huge so I would have to narrow it down more to give anything useful, would you mind going into what you would like to know a bit more?

[enneamage]

hi, apologies if this has already been answered on your blog, but what do you think of the MBTI personality model?

Every time someone checks in with this question I feel an added layer of guilt because I say I'm going to look into MBTI and then I just never do. These are my flaws, I don't start from zero unless that's the way my fickle attention is already going.

I tend to stick within the Enneagram because it works for me, almost creepily well, so I got lazy with the other systems. I've been leaning into it a bit more lately because I'm back to consuming more non-streamer media and sometimes the MBTI is a bit more likely to capture the differences in the thinking of characters (one function of difference vs a wholeass number) but I'm nowhere near as 'good' or familiar with it.

[enneamage]

Random question you’ve probably gotten before (but I have scrolled down your page for a bit and didn’t see anything about it).

Do you have any specific recommendations of enneagram test websites? I’ve taken a couple, but have gotten mixed results. I got 8 the first site , then 1 on the second site… (tbh your account is really the first exposure I’ve gotten to enneagram stuff, so I’m quite clueless).

They all have their own flaws, but this one was my personal favorite for a while because of the question structure. It has been a long time since I looked up new ones, though.

I feel like I've been under-mentioning that websites will also have pages that help people untangle one type from another if they need. Here's a page for One mistypes and here's a page for Eight, hopefully between the two of them you'll be able to get a vibe of what you're looking for.

[enneamage]

i keep seeing people mention the word “fix” in online enneagram communities but idk what it means and google wasn’t giving me an answer last time i looked. do you know what it means? (for example, i just saw someone say they are a “sx7 with a so4 fix” what does that mean?)

"Fix" is used in relation to the idea of instinctual subtypes (which I have mixed feeligns on), and the "fix" is short for fixation, meaning the strongest one. I'm not quite sure what the person you're talking about would be saying (maybe trying to do Trytype and instinctual subtype at the same time?) but the longer version of it would be “Seven with the strongest instinct being the Sexual Subtype + Four with the strongest instinct being the Social Subtype.”

Tangentially related, but I finally looked into some of the origins of the modern enneagram system and damn if a lot of things that bug me about the literature didn't start to make sense when I saw the Gnosticism connections-- the idea that the world is an oopsie and we need to go back to being pure thought/energy whathaveyou. The idea that personality is a mistake of the world and the only Good™️ thing you can do is push against it is a great way to make an enemy of your own brain forever so I personally like to keep it to a minimum. Some of the literature is obsessed with turning every pattern into a problem to work against when sometimes that’s just how it be.

[enneamage]

Not sure exactly how to ask this question but I'm going to try anyway so i apologize if this is completely incoherent. So a big part of type 4 is the obsession with identity, because of this 4s will often create a fantasy self image. My question is: does this idealistic version of themselves align with a different personality type (i.e. a 4 that wants to be a 7) and can this get in the way of typing someone accurately? I guess this question also applies to 3s as well in terms of how they may falsely present themselves to others

Makes sense to me, trying to figure out if there’s a type that Fours tend to admire more than others and want to emulate.

I would say that it’s going to depend a lot on what they’ve chosen to personally value—there’s a desire to not just be unique, but to be unique from other Fours as well, so they likely try to fill different niches depending on what they admire and respect. Other than taking cues from other fours in terms of ‘getting’ them, I could see a Four attaching to any of the types depending on what examples they had in their lives/culture. Most people model themselves on other people to at least some degree so it’s probably going to come down to individual people over a given Type.

Fours may attempt imitation in terms of style and some content, but I see it less in traits, if that makes sense. Let’s take the really glaring aesthetic example of going goth, you get the clothes and the music and the subcultural niche, but aside from maybe leaning into some of the pre-existing gloom through the art associated with the scene, the traits of the Four stay intact. They can value the personality traits that other people have and want to embody them, but the underlying Four traits tend to show through even as they’re doing them so it’s not as confusing as it could be. On the other hand, there can also be an envy piece where they get down on themselves for feeling like they lack traits that they admire in others, overlooking some of their own natural strengths instead.

I gave this specific problem a google and found this article—it deals with instinctual subtypes which I haven’t talked about but it also helps tease out a specific Four subtype from a specific Seven subtype, so if that’s been an issue it’s got some questions to help tease out the details.

[enneamage]

not really related to any ccs, but do you have a better explanation of the whole stress arrows thing? was thinking back on my own past and the 5 integration to 8 thing feels relevant -🎋

For some unknown reason it works out that the little shape (“The Enneagram” itself) that represents the personality types as a set has a flow line between the points. Rather than the nine types just sitting in a circle where only their wings are connected, the tangle of lines between them work as integration and disintegration points.

(The “arrows” integrate in this direction, 3->6->9->3, 1->7->5->8->2->4->1)

There’s a lot of narrative around why it is that types have these dynamic points that they go between, but honestly I don’t believe enough of it to repeat it. For whatever reason it works out that when a given type is under stress and their usual style of behavior isn’t working, they’ll take traits of the type they disintegrate to, and when they’re doing well and moving into aspects of themselves that they aren’t always in touch with they integrate to the type ‘in front’ of them. The story of what each type tends to disown or deny themselves is different, so there’s as many different ‘paths to integration’ as there are types.

Sometimes the integration points are considered behaviors that people started off with in early life but were distanced from over time, as though life didn’t have room for those traits. They sometimes get the nickname “soul children” because of this, which I find goofy, but it also kind of resonates because I was a surprisingly Eight-y child and sometimes it feels like I can go back to that.

Eight integration is fun. I’m biased, but I think we got a good deal. I think integration and disintegration look a little different for everyone-- since not all Fives are the same, it makes sense that not all fives going to Eight are the same either. If you want to understand Eight integration a little more you could look into descriptions of healthy Eights and see what resonates, as well as some of the info on this page about integration.

[enneamage]

what do you think the most balanced/entertaining content group would be based on enneagram?

>content group

Often a deadly premise, to be honest. I’m a believer in the group channel curse, been hurt too many times. It’s somewhere between running a business, a show, and a group marriage, there’s a lot of room for breaking points to come up, but if we’re talking people who happen to make content together rather than people who are all innately connected we’ve got a little more wiggle room. 

I’ve seen friend groups of the most unlikely sort have a good time together, so I’ll default out to the weasel answer of “any couple group of types can work out with the right self awareness and communication skills.” The questions of can they do the job, what job are they doing and how do they mesh together as people & talents are also huge variables that are hard to predict by type alone. I feel like the point I keep making about how compatibility can be about bad habits as well as good ones might be relevant to content creation as well, with anything I could say about a given types ‘usual habits’ that might work for the job possibly going dark in other circumstances. “Workaholic” “creative” and “outgoing” are traits that it would be easy to think to look for in a content creation situation, but those can turn sour or get overdone without balance. It's hard to predict stability just from type, since it’s usually the self-awareness and self-control of the individual that makes things durable, not just rigid instincts.

From an individual point of view, I think I’ve watched and enjoyed the content of at least one of every type, so if we’re looking at entertainment value I think that each type is capable of bringing unique talent and value to a video. Nothing is guaranteed but nothing is ruled out by default, the unusual concentration of Nines in streaming spaces is a great example of people being surprisingly good at something that you wouldn’t expect from description alone, even though the skill itself boils down to the individual. If the definition of content creation is just “making stuff and posting it online” I could see people of any type bringing something fun to the table if they’re the right person and want to give it a go.  

(Out of curiosity I fed this question to an AI and it spat out a short list as well as a disclaimer about type being a generalisation, so the robots are truly coming for my job. Apparently a Nine, a Two and a Seven would be a good trio. I’m not sure I innately agree but now I want to meet this mysterious content group myself.)

[enneamage]

what enneagram types would you say are most compatible with 9s? (<- sneakily asking if you have a read on tubbo’s bf) (but also genuinely curious since i’m a 9 as well)

Through vibe reading and incidental Knowing Things On Accident I would say that Tubbo’s BF is a 6w5, but when it comes to matchups it can really come down to the individual who tends to be “best.” A lot of books and webpages on the subject are a bit shy about admitting that some matches on average have better outcomes than others, even though technically anything is possible.

Since you probably want a short list and not a lecture about individuality, I generally see (in my life anyway) Three, Six, Two and other Nines the most, which gives me both good and bad data points. I’ve talked before about the kind of mundane danger of compatibility, where sometimes two people stick together because their bad habits feed into each other as well as their good ones, so it comes down to the people if a matchup is good or somewhat toxic. If I could give you a totally safe bet I absolutely would but unfortunately life wants to be harder than that.

Just as a fun thought experiment I would recommend going down a type list or compatibility list like a shopping list and seeing which types and descriptions personally appeal to you more. Sometimes people tend to have “a type” that they gravitate to time and time again that they don’t even realise—I’ve freaked out a couple people by pointing out that a lot of their faves and crushes follow the same pattern. There’s no guarantee that your favorites will be smooth sailing, but if you’re looking for a tool to figure out how to follow your heart that can be a step.

[enneamage]

how do you find out your own enneagram & how did you find out all the information you know today? i am very indecisive so i cannot find out what i am for the life of me; tritype is frustrating to no end

In the very very beginning I just took a standard test and found that the answer suited me well enough. That won’t always work for everyone, but it’s a place to get started and get some best-guesses. The thing that really got me hooked was reading around the profiles and abruptly finding descriptions that made some very confusing people in my life suddenly make a lot of sense—I really fell down the rabbit hole from there.

I think I’ve gotten to where I am because I’ve been in a feedback loop with the world. I would know a lot less about how Sixes act and think, for example, if I only read info and profiles and didn’t observe them in the wild; Tommyinnit must be seen to be believed. There are a lot of resources online, both on websites and forums, and switching between observing people and checking reference materials got me to where I am today. It isn’t constant and sometimes I go for a long time without thinking of it at all, but it’s still lingering at the back of my mind for when I need it.

I tend to not do tritype, I understand why people want to do it but I tend to not think of it as useful as nailing down your core type. I’m even starting to get a bit sceptical of wing with the number of people who have a hard time relating to one exclusively over the other, although having an idea of the different flavors that exist within a type is still useful since the core type descriptions tend to miss nuances. I talk a bit more about hunting down type here, in case that helps.

I was repeating this a lot in the beginning, but the disclaimer has dropped off a bit since then-- people are still individuals with unique personalities above anything else. I really like this system because I’ve found it very helpful, but in the end individuality wins out over type and abstract patterns. Sometimes profiles can feel reductive if you’re expecting a perfect match and not finding it, so don’t worry if it doesn’t feel 100% as long as you’re pretty sure. Sometimes. Unless you’re wrong, but that can be hard to avoid without a second opinion >_>;. I think reading through more detailed versions of the personality profiles can help narrow it down from there.

Overall, you can find a lot just from googling around. I don’t think I’ve ever come across a book or website that managed to nail everything about this system that I think works well, but there’s a whole host of random websites out there that you can puzzle together info with.

[enneamage]

i was wonder if you had any thoughts on type 1s vs type 5s? because i recently starting delving into enneagram stuff and when i took the test i got type 1 with type 5 following closely behind. do you have any advice as to how to figure out which one i am? thank you ^_^

One vs. Five In a fight? A One could take me out easily, I wouldn’t stand a chance /j

This page has some good info about the difference between the two types, which might help break the tie. (Here’s a shorter one too.) Type One is still kind of a blindspot for me in the sense that I get it but I feel like the way I get it is too shallow to be able to speak on it well. There’s a lot of quirks to it that exist outside of the ‘perfectionist’ stereotype, and I haven’t been able to get a good read on what the mechanics are that underly them. I’ve also known some Fives to have a perfectionist edge to them so the question ‘are you a perfectionist’ won’t cut it.

Another thing to keep an eye on is the Growth / Disintegration arrows—Five goes to Seven under stress and Eight when integrating, while One goes to Four under stress and Seven while integrating. That sounds like a whole lot of nothing to most people, but a different way to put it is One moving to unplanned positive stimulus-seeking is a good time and a sign of growth, for Fives it can be a bit of a nervous impulse and a sign that something is going out of control. (It’s not that enjoying things is bad for Fives, Eight integration can give a lot of focused or spontaneous passion, it’s embodying the frantic escapism of the Seven where things get sketchy.) Basically being more like a Seven is positive in the case of Ones but a red flag in Fives.

[enneamage]

have you ever been thrown off by a person's type based on the vibes you got from them? has there ever been a time where you trusted your own reading more than a person's self-identified/test-provided enneagram?

I don’t think I’ve been thrown off super hard recently, but back when I was still learning simpler stuff I would get misguided hunches based on gender performance, like not noticing the tells for male Twos who tend to bury their affectionate streak under their workaholism more. Usually I don’t get to cross-check people since the awkwardness around trying to get someone to take a test is Friend Activity and I can’t spring it on the public at random, but by the time I know them as a friend there’s less cold-reading and more of a relationship there. 

In practice Eight and Six tend to feel very different just based on vibes, but Sixes who are really argumentative or deep into counterphobia tend to mis-test as Eights. It’s gotten to the point where I can tell if someone were to take a test if it would come up as an Eight false-positive ahead of time because it’s such a consistent thing among people who identify with defiance and bravery. That one tends to be my most frequent “that ain’t right” when I’m out in the world. 

[enneamage]

what do you think the differences between a 7w8 and a 9w8 would be?

The Eight wing part of this question is interesting, it implies a scrappy / defensive stance in either one. 7w8 would be quicker to get into conflict, and might even do it for fun, but a 9w8 will push back on things and finish arguments if provoked (or if someone disturbs their 'peace') so it's a close call. 

As a rule I would say when breaking a tie between any other type and Nine, try to give extra weight to Nine because they're the hardest to tell apart from other types, as opposed to the other eight which tend to be a bit more obvious (the mix-ups tend to be one-way.) 

Keep an eye on integration vs disintegration-- A Nine will integrate to Three and disintegrate to Six, while a Seven goes to Five when they're doing well and One when they're not. I think when under stress a 7w8 going to One would be really critical and reactive with their environment, while a 9w8 would repress and have bigger but less frequent bursts of anger.

[enneamage]

I've taken a few enneagram tests and I've gotten 4 on some and 6 on some. I relate to both very strongly, and I'm not sure which one I am, so I'm wondering if there's a specific difference between 4 and 6? Also, is it a common thing for 4s and 6s to mistype as each other? Because to me at least, they sound kind of similar

I think this is a good source for picking them apart-- I can see where the theme of distinction and identity would come in with counterphobic Six vs Four, so they do get mixed up sometimes. It's not super frequent but it's not super rare either, good luck on sorting 'em out.

[enneamage]

any fellow 8 lurkers here?