#trimax meta

[versaphile]

Another bit of Trigun meta about Vash and Knives. I’m plowing through TriMax and I got to the Ark section, and Knives sticking Vash in a cage for 7 months??? (What the hell Knives, also what the hell happened during all that time?? There’s no way shit didn’t go down. Must find fic. There must be fic.) Also sticking every other plant in a cage but. 

Back to TriStamp and Knives’ messed up plan there. On the one hand, clearly a superior plan to make all other plants Independents instead of making them all himself (though to a degree it really is the same plan, he is also trying to make all other plants himself, mirrors of himself, perfect in the way he considers himself perfect, untouchable, needing no one and nothing, superior to all other life). 

On the other hand, the method he has for achieving this plan is to literally turn Vash into a Dependent plant. Trapped in a tank and unable to act for himself, entirely vulnerable, used for what can be taken from him, used for what he can make. And Knives still sees this as purifying and protecting Vash. Turning him into the very thing that Knives fears and detests, something weak and helpless and completely exploited. 

He is so angry at Vash. Just astronomical levels of anger and hurt. With the attempted genocide and all, it’s easy to get distracted by his anger at humanity, but his anger at Vash is so much more personal and bigger. He feels utterly betrayed by every choice Vash has ever made since they were born, every way Vash was not his mirror image, every way Vash mirrored humans (Rem) instead of plants. Knives’ anger is so much because he sees Vash as a part of himself, but Vash keeps pulling away from him, keeps being something Knives doesn’t want a part of himself to be. 

But also Knives still loves Vash completely and Knives is furious about the fact that <em>Vash doesn’t love himself</em>. Vash will do absolutely anything but love and protect himself, this part of Knives that Knives can’t control. Every time Vash hurts himself for the sake of humans, it’s Vash hurting Knives, it’s Vash saying through his actions that he and Knives are not worth a single human life, that it’s right for humans to exploit all plants including Vash himself and by proxy Knives as well.

I also got to the big TriMax flashbacks to Tesla and Conrad and Vash’s childhood suicide attempt. I really hope they include some of this in TriStamp season 2, because it’s so powerful and explains so much about Vash. His desperation for clinging to life and joy even in the darkest moments, and things get so absolutely dark. His near-inability to love himself or let others genuinely love him, let their love into him. He fights so hard in defiance of his own grief and pain, in defiance of the fear and despair that almost destroyed him and Rem and Knives in one fell swoop. 

And how awful that it was Knives who trusted and loved humans more than Vash as children in TriMax. I think that’s why the trauma of Tesla consumed him. Vash was already afraid and came very, very close to letting that trauma consume him too, only for Rem to pull him back with her love. Knives felt safe and secure and then had all that ripped away in an instant, and because of his coma during Vash’s ordeal, he never had any reconciliation or healing from Rem. Not in the deep, life-changing way Vash did. And in fact, Vash’s closer connection to Rem after Tesla probably felt like an incomprehensible betrayal to Knives, the first in a long line. How could Vash love humans more than Knives, after Tesla? It was all wrong. Vash was wrong and he had to be saved from himself and from whatever the humans might do to them next.

But Rem saving Vash’s life, that made Rem a part of Vash even more than being their adoptive mother. And losing her not long after they had this life-changing experience together. It must have felt like Knives killed a part of Vash in the Big Fall. And ripping Rem away in that formative time, it made Vash this torn live wire, needing to put all that love into something to ground him, and where else but every other human? Into the survivors, people who Knives hurt just like him. People (he hoped) would be just like Rem, that would keep Rem alive in some way. 

I do think it might happen in TriStamp season 2 because there’s clear indications that Conrad was awake at some point on Ship 5. He recognizes Knives when they reunite on Noman’s Land, and he might also be the reason why Vash and Nai have secret plant profiles in the computer, since it’s unlikely that Rem would have put the data in when she’s trying to pass them off as humans.

Reading through TriMax, it’s been really fascinating to see all the pieces that were pulled out and remixed for TriStamp. Like Vash and Knives’ ridiculous conversation about running away from humans and coming back again! Almost word for word from the Ark fight. I’m so incredibly curious for what they’ll do for season 2. I still have several volumes left to read but TriStamp really plows through the themes and major plot points and character moments even in those scant 12 episodes of season 1. It makes the world feel so rich even though we only get glimpses of so many things.

Also, I kept waiting for it to be revealed that Legato has Vash’s arm but apparently that concept was created for the 98 anime?? I am honestly surprised. It’s such a fantastic idea and I really hope that’s what they’re doing with Legato in TriMax, it does feel like they’re hinting at his arm being important. And it gives me a reason to tolerate Legato, lol.

I am starting to have a better appreciation for the contributions of the 98 anime to the Trigun canon. It’s obviously much more lighthearted overall, more emphasis on the western worldbuilding while TriMax really just goes hard on the giant battles and SF as it goes on. I still find 98 a bit too goofy in places, especially the rather tedious “horny Vash” stuff (ugh). I’m rewatching now that I have more context, which helps a lot, as the back half of 98 felt like quite an abrupt shift and left me quite confused in places. 

[pepplemint]

Ok I got it - Ideologically, Vash and Knives are kinda like two people arguing about if they should exterminate all the wolves in the area because they keep killing their sheep and dogs. One thinks they should, because they destroy so much, and it's only a matter of time before they will attack a human (they are angry about what has happened, but also afraid of what might happen if they just stand by and watch). The other thinks they shouldn't, because the wolves also deserve to live and they are just doing their best to survive, even if that means humans will loose animals and maybe get hurt (they see that it will be harder and possibly bring them misery, but they don't believe they have the right to make such a decision just to make their own life easier). Neither of them think they are "superior" to the wolves, nor do they think they too are wolves. Ironically, they are just very human.

There's no right answer, and realistically the best option would probably be somewhere in-between.

[chaoticandrogynous]

Oh man, I love this, specifically as it relates to Vash seemingly gaining the ability to read Wolfwood's thoughts. He's trusting someone more and more, and as that relationship deepens a psychic bond forms like between members of a Plant collective. Wolfwood is becoming his *family*. Obviously since Wolfwood is human it can't go as deep or as... two-way, I guess... as between Plants, but wow. A little developing collective of two.

Of course that makes it all hurt more, yadda yadda, we know we can't have nice things... but maybe it also means that someday down the road Vash has his own little collective-family again, now that he knows he wants it and could have it, a little. Profoundly unalone, finally.

On Plants, Selfhood, and Seeking a Collective

[Image ID: Crop of several panels from TriMax volume 11 chapter 8. In this scene Chronica is interfacing with the used entity that consumed Domina. Chronica observes the mass and says "We as a species naturally do not have a concept of self, and therefor instead have a deep shared consciousness. That is why these plants are able to use without major difficulties." Then we see Chronica reach her hand toward one of the plants within and appear to gain information from her. End ID]

I told myself I was going to hold onto my Trigun thoughts until book club finished the series because I keep falling behind. Then I saw these panels and started chewing on a thought and since it's not really meta and more speculation I figured I'd write a quick little thing about Independent plants and selfhood.

Here we see Chronica interacting with the fused entity Knives made that was left behind/still attached to Domina. Chronica's comment about "We as a species naturally do not have a concept of self, and therefor instead have a deep shared consciousness." has really stuck with me and I've been trying to suss out possible implications for this, because she doesn't seem to be talking just about the dependent plants here. It's 'WE as a species', no distinction is made between different kinds of plants. Maybe it's nothing but the thought won't leave me alone SO:

I've been trying to look back at Vash and Knives through this lens to see if there's anything to glean there. Independents clearly do have a sense of self, and understand themselves to be unique individuals. They don't seem attached to any kind of hive mind the way dependent plants are, though they do have some minor telepathic powers and can communicate with dependent plants.

Mostly I was wondering if Independent plants have some instinct/predispositions toward certain needs or behaviors they cannot meet or fulfill as Independents?

(Subtopic: Does this mean there are therapists that specialize in Independent mental health, if they have specific needs/pressures that are different enough from humans?)

Knives and Vash suffered similar trauma when they discovered Tesla, and both felt sudden and violent isolation from everyone else on that ship, albeit in different ways. As adults they both isolate themselves in different ways: Knives keeps others at arms length so as to not disrupt his worldview, where as Vash's wandering lifestyle and danger-magnet-ness generally keeps him from forming lasting relationships.

Humans are social creatures and we'll generally pack-bond with anything, and it's hard to tell if it's similar for plants. Do they feel the same need to socialize/form bonds, or are Independents seeking out a collective/hivemind they instinctively seek but can never find? They clearly can feel lonely and isolated, but does it feel different for them? Does that pain come from a different place for a plant than a human?

Then there's this spread in the same chapter as the above panels:

[Image ID: A two page spread from TriMax volume 11 chapter 8. It's a closeup of Vash, bleeding from every hole in his head, his eyes wide. He lays near the edge of a huge drop-off, and far below him is pitch darkness lit with lights like a city at night as seen from above. It is unclear if the lights below are the plants, from the human city, or something else. End ID]

Since this is in the same chapter which opens with Chronica saying the line above, I was wondering if these two moments were connected somehow. Does the reminder that there are people who depend on him, a collective who needs him? He seems surprised when Brad, Meryl, and Milly made their diversion to stop the military. He generally seems to struggle with the idea that other people want to help him. Something something Vash both is and isn't part of the human society he lives in???

To what degree does Vash see himself as a person versus something that belongs to a collective, whether that collective is humans, plants, or both? Does an inborn need/desire to serve a collective predispose him to self-destructive behavior? Same with Knives, did the trauma of losing a perceived collective (discovering Tesla and losing the sense of belonging with humans) fuel his future hate and fear of humans in a way that he wouldn't have felt if he weren't an Independent?

Maybe there's something in the next volumes I don't remember that address this somehow. Part of what's fun about this reread is rediscovering things or connections I missed the first time, and all the meta people write pointing out things I might have missed entirely on my own! (Blows a kiss to everyone who posts meta on Tumblr ya'll are great and smart and thank you for sharing!)

Like I said, there's no real conclusion I'm making here, just kicking around an idea to see if it fits. Not sure it does, but putting it out there to get it out of my head and see what other people think.

[revenantghost]

Man, I think the best and worst part of Knives’s character is just how compelling he is*

I get it. You get it. We all understand exactly how and why he is the way he is. So many people have put this idea into better words than I could. He witnessed an unspeakable horror at an incredibly young age. He knew he was different, that he was other, and a worry set deeply into his bones that humanity would reject him for being born who he is. 

And he was right. It was so much worse than he could have ever realized. He was born to be an object for humanity to use as they see fit. All he wanted was love and peace for himself and his brother. And after seeing that? What they did so mercilessly to Tesla? Who can blame him for not believing in any future with humanity in it. Who can imagine a future without unbelievable strife and prejudice when you’re outnumbered and are seen as an item to dissect and toy with as you see fit

And yet

And yet

In his fear, in his need to control and correct, the cycle continues. The abused becomes the abuser. He assaults his brother multiple times. He takes away Vash’s autonomy and manipulates his body without his consent. Hell he happily experiments with/tests and uses Vash’s body while unconscious. He says he loves Vash while refusing to hear a word coming out of his mouth. Because, if he has a moment of doubt, any hint of weakness, all of that anger slips away and he becomes that boy again--afraid and weak and alone

In his fear, he takes plants. He strips them of their independence and will, denying them their souls. Again, he uses the bodies of his siblings against their will. He displays their corpses to keep him angry instead of putting them to rest. He kills and breaks apart the body of his sister so that he doesn’t have to die, so that he can be reborn. He willfully denies the thoughts, dreams, and pains of his sisters and instead absorbs them, impregnates them, tries to kill them in the “right” way

In his fear, he drove humanity into hurting his kind more. He forced their hand into injuring and killing more plants than they’d ever dreamed of harming. He’s the one that put Vash into a constant position where he’s gaining mountains of scars. (His brother who, on the opposite end of the spectrum, has let the cycle of abuse continue while using himself as a shield instead of breaking free from the pattern.) He uses and discards the humans near him no matter the kindness and devotion they shows him

The same behavior Knives shows everybody and everything else

He’s awful. Absolutely sick and perverted and so stuck in his own mind that all he does is hurt and hurt and hurt

And yet

I get it. I’ve been traumatized to the point where all I want to do is cause pain in return. To feel that justice can exist and will come to pass, no matter the cost. To be so afraid that anger is the only safe emotion you can cling to. It’s what makes him one of the most compelling antagonists I’ve ever seen. Kudos to Nightow for fucking me up about Knives and his pain more by the day, honestly

*Except for ‘98 Knives lmao, that man is fabulously unhinged and overly dramatic about everything and I love him for it

[h4venpha]

me when baby knives who had just as shiny, sparkly, big ol downturned eyes as vash. so full of wonder and joy and curiosity!!!

poor baby :((( pls look at his gentle eyes and little sheepish smile

[firethekitty]

thinking about how knives’ last interaction (not only with a human but literally ANYONE) is with this cute little kid in awe of his apple tree who just treats knives like a totally normal guy, not like a freak or a god to worship

you’d assume for someone who hates humans so much that knives would eventually die in a blaze of glory like shot down by the military or something. but the real beauty of his death is how in willingly creating the tree with the last of his powers, he ensures not only the survival of vash, not only the survival of these two humans, but the survival of ALL humans. and at this point, knives has finally accepted the fact that humans are inherently good and he’s confident in leaving vash with them. he TRUSTS them to save him.

i especially love that the kid asks if knives told vash he was leaving. just like a very basic indication that you care about someone. and knives kinda takes that as his cue to finally let go and leave vash on his own

[syeniites]

I’ve seen a few people comment on the fandom’s overall tendency to understate Trimax!Wolfwood’s fear of Vash’s power/nature and perhaps exaggerate the quasi-religious devotion aspect of their dynamic, and I find it very interesting because from my perspective, all of that is heavily dependent on when in the manga timeline you’re looking at.

Because it doesn’t take Wolfwood that long to start believing in Vash’s good intentions (“A true gunman who only looks on the bright side of life?” - TM #3), but it takes far longer for him to trust that Vash can remain in control of his powers when faced with Knives (“You know what kind of guy he is, but he’s also the trigger to a power that could end the world” - TM #6).

The concern here is twofold: that Vash might ‘go off’ in a moment of extreme emotional distress, as he nearly did at Dragon’s Nest, and that he might be used as a weapon by Knives, like at July and Fifth Moon.

Despite acutely recalling the terror he felt on Ship 5 with the whole crying-blood thing (“That behemoth will splatter us like insects” - TM #2), Wolfwood seems primarily worried about the latter by the time they reach the Ark (“Is it that easy to eliminate half the threat?” - TM #6).

But then three things happen:

Knives tries to absorb Vash and is almost consumed himself instead, demonstrating that Vash’s power is the stronger of the two.

Wolfwood prays to God during the fight with Chapel (“Can murderers only be murderers?… Am I wrong?” - TM #8), and Vash is the one who answers while in full wingèd protector mode (“You are not wrong, Wolfwood!!”).

Vash deliberately activates his Angel Arm and then chooses not to set it off, thus reclaiming his bodily autonomy and freeing himself and Wolfwood from the Ark.

This is a huge turning point in their relationship! Wolfwood “bet his life on” Vash despite “fear[ing] death twice as much as others,” and Vash proved that he was right to do so. Which is why, in Wolfwood’s final confrontation with Chapel and LR, we get The speech of all time:

“Shall I tell you my hope? In this era, especially because of the era we live in, he will be able to do something. His unmatched earnestness… I believe in it. Are you scared? He has never forsaken anything” (TM #10).

Truly nothing in Trimax makes me more feral than those last two lines: the way Wolfwood invokes that fear again, but this time, he himself is exempt from it. Chapel is the one who should fear Vash, precisely because Vash would never forsake Wolfwood as Chapel suggests he did. Not when Wolfwood is one of Vash’s own.

Fear on the one side, faith on the other. Wolfwood has moved from the former to the latter.

TL;DR - In a Wolfwood Lives AU or really any scene set after they escape the Ark, it makes sense for Wolfwood not to show any particular fear of Vash’s inhuman nature and even to display signs of that sense of awe in the face of Vash’s goodness, whereas earlier in the story, it would be odd for Wolfwood to be entirely calm and accepting when Vash goes into Angel Mode™️.

[iwritenarrativesandstuff]

it could be that I’m just missing the subsection of the fandom that likes to play around with this concept, but I’m a little surprised I haven’t seen more people pulling at Vash’s fear and confusion at his own body and its transformations for angst material

it’s really unique to me, in the way that usually body angst and physical changing is accompanied by self-hatred of the body itself - but Vash doesn’t actually hate his body. He doesn’t hate that he’s a Plant. His self-hatred comes from the actions he is forced or stressed into performing when he no longer has any control over himself; when control is wrest away from him, often violently - and this is all signified by physical changes in his body; literally being shaped into a gun to be fired

and here’s the thing. Wolfwood is so special to me because he has to learn who Vash is and remind himself several times of his character in the face of his fear and of being in the presence of a being incomprehensibly more powerful than him. but Vash is scared too.

he didn’t understand what was happening to him in July. his own plantness is just as much a mystery to him as it is to most humans. he had no guide. he has no mother.

vash and wolfwood spend much of their journey in mutual fear - wolfwood for having no control, and vash for having already seen the consequences of losing it. because it really is about control in the end - and the way that Vash constantly has his stripped from him, the way that his scars (which he doesn’t hate either btw!) are the only proof he had for the longest time that his choices were his own, the way Vash cannot confront his brother for as long as his own body is the linchpin of Knives’ control over him.

and that’s why it’s significant that Vash’s triumph over his body was not an overcoming of self-hatred for being a plant (this was never an issue), but actually his ability to take control over his own transformation - to assert himself with a goal much stronger than resisting another’s influence, or preserving the memory of the dead - that Vash and Wolfwood overcome their mutual fear in volume 8 in order to save each other is the pinnacle of their shared development before the end, and there is so much more I could say to elaborate on this godDAMN

But yeah. The way Vash’s body transformations are a mystery to himself and symbolic of his lack of control is absolutely one of my favourite things about this manga

[duncanor]

'Saw some folks discussing the wedding imagery of Wolfwood death on Twitter today. And one take was about Vash rejecting Wolfwood and pretty much leaving him at the altar because he couldn't give him the smile Wolfwood wanted and even cut him off.

And honestly, I think it's the opposite.

Vash is the one who proposed to him. Asking him to share his tomorrows with him.

The quote both a demand and an implied confirmation that it's two-sided.

However, Wolfwood is the one who ends up leaving Vash at the altar as he dies. The metaphorical wedding ring coming off as he expire. (as pointed out by @Jeneorarock earlier today)

In a way, I get why Vash reaction in this scene comes off as a rejection. But it isn't a rejection of Wolfwood himself,

It's a rejection of a future without him by his side. It's impossible for him to execute Wolfwood last wish as much as it is impossible for God to grant him what he begs for.

In conclusion, they truly do have the worst wedding of all time.

[redinthesea]

You're telling me a Plant fried this rice?

[the-nysh]

Rewatching Trigun's 98anime (subs this time, being used to the eng dub) since I was curious to note the characters' shifting pronoun usage.

For reference, Stampede Vash always uses the softer, more humble, modest, boyish 'boku' - as expected (like Trimax Vash), even after his glow up in ep12, he still regards himself the same way. While Knives (Nai) exclusively uses the harder, more assertive, masculine 'ore'...ever since he was a little baby, which immediately differentiates them apart, but is...extremely (lmao) edgy of him.

But in the 98anime? Oh my god, it's all flipped around and completely different! Which quite interestingly reveals a lot of contextual nuances to many characters, and quite frankly rewatching in Japanese trying to catch all these things only thoroughly kicked my ass throwing in so many difficult-to-understand, unexpected curveballs; I'm both shook and humbled by what I've heard!

Because 98 Knives refers to himself as 'boku' O____O;; even during his most 'villainous' lines yelling at Vash too. Him having that casual but 'polite' poised dissonance in his voice comes off extremely unnerving;;; when he speaks of horrible things thru such an 'innocent' self-perception like that. (Even Legato uses 'boku' like him! Same in Stampede.) Damn I'm disturbed. He and Vash notably both used 'boku' when they were kids, but Knives in particular never really stopped saying that from their childhoods, so that says a lot about him. (His "did you just shoot me [boku]!?" comes off very uncannily childlike. No wonder Vash freaked out in guilt.)

But 98 Vash? Whoa, he requires a whole damn essay flips around ALL the time, interchangeably using BOTH! :O Often switching pronouns between 'ore' & 'boku' within the same episode, or even as quickly as every other sentence, even towards the same person. Depending on the immediate context/topic of what he's saying and the emphasis on how he's saying it. Via all his posturing, which 'persona' he switches into, his familiarity/humbleness/honesty/trust--even hostility towards certain people, and his mood's silly vs seriousness levels. Often reflective of how determined/confrontational/casual he is vs being walled off (masking) to openly repentant, lost or distressed too - but not always! It's Extremely inconsistent fascinating but confusing!!! Because there's no....fixed 'rules' to his usage. For ex he'll often use 'ore' casually within his own internal monologues to his more bombastic public self-introductions, or even when he's at his most serious in private moments about grave matters, like settling his past during his scar scene with Meryl. Even Eriks!Vash still uses 'ore' when confessing his guilt to Wolfwood about the Fifth Moon! So there feels to be a general preference for using 'ore' when he (internally and externally, both in casual and serious contexts) needs to show his 'determination' - aka being the man (the ideal 'Vash'?) he wants to become.

But then he'll flip around using 'boku' for some of his most exasperatingly fake ✨playful✨ bits when he's kidding and messing around in mock courtesy (bonus: he even uses 'watashi' as a joke for his ridiculously long 'formal' name introduction to Wolfwood).....AND 'boku' will be used for his most sincere humble (polite) conversations back with family members he knows at Home, and when he connects back to his childhood with Rem in his dreams. The Diablo ep is a good example: he uses 'ore' throughout the ep until he reverts to 'boku' after speaking to Rem deciding not to kill, and that humbling shift, like to that of a lost younger boy, makes so much sense. The shift happens again when Eriks!Vash thinks about Rem feeling just as lost: "what should I [boku] do?" And after the tragic incident at Home when he's depressed and masking himself behind his glasses, while quietly reflecting to Wolfwood with a reproachful, "Everyone who touches me [boku] dies." ...Before immediately changing back to 'ore' in the next sentence firming his resolve to face Knives.

But in general it really depends and you have to listen hard (pay close attention) to hear how much contextual teasing, sincerity, irony, genuine respect, or...humbling self-reproach and self-depreciation he uses. Indicative towards how much (or how poorly) he internally regards himself and how he externally presents himself to others, because it changes. All the time. His personal pronouns aren't fixed! ...Basically, I'm just as confused as Meryl (and it really makes narrative sense why she's so confused by him), not knowing which 'persona' is the real him! x'D

...Oh but a really good moment, in ep24 when Meryl pleads at him to be honest with her for once about all the tragedies, he uses 'boku' explaining everything to her about Knives. That's....really good. :O Like umm...him using 'ore' before with her (in the scar scene) kind of erected a subtle barrier when he refused to elaborate further, but using 'boku' so sincerely for her request.....like it..extends her the same humble level of courtesy/trust he'd use towards the 'family' he loves back at Home (+Rem)....but it's so loaded, cause he's being honest but still...distant telling her why he's better off alone. :')) Man...(the aaangst) Oooooh, but then ep25 is very telling too, cause he's mentally lost for the whole ep, always using 'boku' so anguished and self-deprecatingly....until Meryl saves him and he gives her his softest genuine 'boku' yet, after he recovers back to himself donning the red coat again, thanking and assuring her he'll be alright. :'D (Hooray~) Before internally switching back to 'ore' on his final quest setting out alone for Knives. Ep26: he still keeps that distinct assertive 'ore' in front of Knives "I [ore] will survive!" and 'boku' for Rem: "I [boku] will continue to believe in you, but will look to my own [jibun] words for guidance." :')) (Bonus: 'jibun' is added when he philosophically thinks in terms of 'oneself'/'myself' from now on.)

Bonus nuance: while younger Vash may have dependently followed Knives' lead around--back when they both used 'boku' together, older (current) Vash--using 'ore' with him, feels like he's grown to assume the role as the more independent, responsible older brother now, when he finally understands how to put Rem's last words to 'take care of Knives' into practice. :'))

So tl;dr: Vash tends to have a casual leaning preference for using 'ore' in most situations both private and public, but especially for whenever he asserts his determination involving Knives with a confrontational edge. 'Boku' is used exclusively (politely, with genuine deference & care) towards extended family members he loves (like Rem, Brad, Doc, and eventually.....Meryl; using the softest 'boku' towards her I've ever heard. ;.;) And for whenever he humbles himself in distress, feeling lost in turmoil or self-reproach. But it's not set in stone! Since both pronouns can be used sincerely or ironically in jest, for whenever he's feeling silly or playing a bit (donning a mask), easily switching depending on presentation or context too. 98 Vash simply does what he wants! While Meryl screams in confused exasperation!

As for 98 Meryl, she often uses the book-standard, more formal/professional 'watashi' when introducing herself (Stampede Meryl too), and her speech patterns are typically very polite and pleasant to listen to (with many lovely 'desu-wa' sentence finishers.) ...Until she changes to the informal, more feminine 'atashi.' Ex: when screaming at Milly to let her go (to Vash) as the city blew up during the Fifth Moon incident. The raw sincerity in her voice for that change is so...🥺 of her. Note, cause most other girls - from Rem, Milly, younger kids like Lina, to older (but youthful) grandma characters all informally use 'atashi.' So for Meryl to drop her usual formalities when her honest feelings come out ("I [atashi] need to go there!" - to the epicenter where Vash is) means a lot. :')) ...Ah! Cause she slips to 'atashi' again in ep25, in front of Vash (while he uses 'boku' at his most mentally lost and openly wounded state) at his bedside. o///o Oh my... Using 'atashi' again while crying to Milly in regret that she couldn't confess anything yet to Vash on his sendoff. So yes, Meryl's feminine 'atashi' side shows whenever she expresses her honest feelings. :'3

Now 98 Wolfwood is a special case, cause he speaks primarily in Kansai dialect, which is extremely hard for me to understand what he's saying in modified/shortened slang all the time. (Compared to say, Meryl who speaks very cleanly and polite.) I've heard him use 'ore' when offering kids food, the more rural/casual form 'oira' when confessing his turmoil to Milly at his most vulnerable, 'uchi' when talking about 'our orphanage,' 'washi' (the 'old man' form of watashi) when speaking in more formal/aged terms of 'God', to the slang form 'wai' (he casually prefers this one a lot, and Stampede Wolfwood uses 'wai' too, esp when introducing himself to new people, for most of the few eps he's even in, and it makes him sound like...way older than he actually is?) to even 'jibun' when talking about himself with distance in flashbacks. The impression he gives off is like that of someone who's come from a rural/street kid (orphan) background...but who speaks like a chill elder now?? who's aged far too soon for his years. That's my best interpretation of what's happening. (His slang 'wai' even slurs to sound like 'oira,' almost like 'wai-ra' sometimes; gah it's really hard for me to discern, I'm sorry.) Bonus: he teasingly calls Milly 'my honey' in english, while she playfully answers him back with the pronounced 'a-na-ta' (dear), so they def have an inside thing going on. Bottom line, he's very complicated *bangs head on desk* and his accent is too unfamiliar/beyond my meager course level to fully grasp! :'D

To sum up (to the best of my hearing comprehension):

Stampede Vash: always boku, modest and unassuming towards everyone 98 Vash: BOTH ore & boku; not fixed. Casual preference for ore vs more humble courtesy using boku, but it's extremely context/mood/persona dependent, since he can mask & switch for jokes. Has a serious confrontational/determined edge using ore vs Knives--as if Vash becomes the older brother here, but always reserves the softer boku towards Rem and the found family he loves Stampede Knives: always ore, ever since he was a baby; so much edge 98 Knives: boku, coming off unnervingly childlike vs Vash's ore Meryl (both): watashi, but changes to atashi (98) when her honest feelings towards Vash show Wolfwood (both, Kansai dialect): primarily wai, but can use many other forms Legato (both): boku Roberto: ore Milly: atashi, but can mask using watashi when she's not fine Rem: atashi (98) & watashi (Stampede) Stampede Luida: watashi, but atashi when casual with teen Vash Brad (both): ore Dr. Conrad: watashi Stampede Elendira: watashi Stampede Zazie: boku

Now besides the animes, since Trimax is a whole other overwhelming complicated beast, and since I don't have access to check (nor would I even be able to easily read/understand) the Japanese raws, I'd be VERY interested in someone's investigation and breakdown into the manga's pronouns, especially for Trimax Vash, since I've heard that beyond 'boku,' he shifts and evolves throughout his journey too, possibly ending on a very soft wizened, matured 'watashi' that I'd love to hear more!

[vashs-ass]

My biggest pet peeve is when I make a silly little ship post using a canon interaction and there’s always one person who HAS to come in and spoil the fun with “actually this is [character] doing this for [insert plot reason].” Or my favorite is “actually I saw this as brotherly” okay! Great! I don’t care! This is clearly a ship post go somewhere else. I think you are rude

[angelarmsfactory]

Sometimes I drive myself nuts thinking about the similarities between Vash and Milly. Like it's very obvious they are cut from the same cloth, they are so similar. But the thing is, Milly is like Vash if he didn't keep trying to keep his emotions to himself. I feel like that's made abundantly clear by her reaction to Wolfwood's death in comparison to Vash. They both cried but she cried openly around Meryl who could comfort her and Vash had to turn his back away from Wolfwood to even allow himself to cry. And isn't that the fundamental difference between them? That at the end of the day, Milly has her family who she sends letters to all the time, and Vash has lost his family? Vash turns his back away from comfort because he has not had anyone to turn to in a very long time. I wonder if he ever feels, looking at Milly, that he is looking into a mirror of his life in which he got to keep Rem and Knives.

[revenantghost]

Tristamp Wolfwood is a bit different than his counterparts, yeah? And I don’t mean that in a bad way, Orange is going somewhere with it, but it’s very different from what they’ve done with Vash and Meryl imo. With them, I feel like we got a glimpse of pre-canon. With Wolfwood... Orange is up to something, and it goddamn terrifies me. I love him dearly, he has some many moments that make me smile and go, “Yeah, that’s Wolfwood, my beloved asshole.” But it’s different. Oh so very different.

I’m just gonna point out a few examples of things I think are different enough to note here (drawing comparisons from Trimax since that was the source for Tristamp, but I’ll try not to spoil much--just don’t Google names you don’t recognize), and then go a little off the rails with a couple theories (spoilers there, click the read more at your own peril). This is DEFINITELY not everything, and maybe my takes are a bit off, idk. If there’s something you’ve picked up on, definitely feel free to add it!

Well, here goes:

My dude is a mess. Wolfwood is typically put together and some would call him smooth (he’s a mess inside always, though) in his other incarnations. Orange pointed out at Sakuracon that the characters are supposed to look younger and more immature in Tristamp, and Wolfwood specifically is supposed to look like he can’t dress himself (lmao). They said they have their reasons but just didn’t have time to explore them in canon. So, I can make assumptions, but I’ll wait to see what comes in the future.

Another one that staff talked about in a recent interview is that Wolfwood is technically a priest according to his contract, but he calls himself an undertaker. Yeah, yeah, edgelord Tristamp Wolfwood and all that, but I’ve seen people call back to how, in the manga, it’s Vash that always takes the time to bury the dead. Wolfwood even chews him out a bit for this. But it’s literally in our introduction to him in this version. He carries the weight of the dead with him enough to make it part of his title, and that’s different for him.

I could be misremembering with this one. But I distinctly remember being surprised when I read Trimax because Wolfwood going into the Eye of Michael seemed more of his own choice than it is in Tristamp (not that a literal child could consent to, you know, torture and abuse)? But either way Wolfwood loathes the Eye of Michael from the get-go here, he doesn’t stay by choice and actively tries to escape. Just like all these choices he makes in Tristamp (which is MASSIVELY different in general), he does it for someone else. He can’t try to escape again, because they have Livio.

Speaking of! Livio!!! This was another thing that caught me by surprise going from Tristamp to Trimax, their relationship is so much different here, so much softer and it hurts in a beautiful way. I feel like less is more here to avoid spoilers, but this introduction pre-Trimax-canon and any future conflict with this backstory... is very different.

Holy hell, a moment like this happening so early?! Vash and Wolfwood having ideological differences and not understanding each other takes up so much time in Trimax. But over the course of three episodes, we go from Wolfwood killing someone that Vash wanted to save (props to Tristamp for making that gutpunch even more personal, ouch--though points deducted for not having the, “Shoot,” moment there), to Vash seeing how very similar they are and getting a grasp of why Wolfwood is the way he is. Wolfwood is so much softer in Tristamp. He’s way more emotional, he cares so deeply for things outside of himself, and he doesn’t have that apathetic bitterness. Staff have said that our main characters will be a lot more recognizable post-timeskip, so some shit is gonna happen to this man, but this is a fundamental shift in the early days of their relationship.

AGAIN!!! Wolfwood is doing this whole mission, betraying Vash, to save the orphanage. He didn’t have to listen to Vash trying to save the sandsteamer. It doesn’t matter if Vash is pissy if Wolfwood blew up the ship to save the orphanage, because that’s his end goal. He has a giant laser that just blew through an entire giant worm, this ship is nothing. Wolfwood’s trying to cling to the monster that he sees himself as, trying to stay the Punisher, but he’s not. He already has enough faith in Vash to trust him with everything he cares about. This takes a lot of development time for Wolfwood to trust Vash like this in Trimax--and even in the very end, he still doesn’t trust Vash with this. (If you know, you know.)

AGAIN!!!!! Wolfwood cares!!! He does not need to question if Vash is sure, if he thinks he can make up with or convince Knives or whatever, in fact he shouldn’t. He should give Vash no reason to question getting to July. But Wolfwood, be careful, your feelings are showing. Wolfwood’s getting worried about Vash. Even though all he needs to do is keep his head down and get this dork to July.

This was never Trimax Wolfwood’s motivation. Whatever drove him left him hollow and empty, he did not care. Even when he saw things starting to go south and he wanted out, Vash ended up being right: he was too much of a coward to do anything about it. (If you know, you know.) I had wondered, after Legato tried to bulldoze everything he loved, why the hell didn’t Wolfwood just desert the mission and team up with the gang. He already has such a deep connection with them. But this would be why.

WOLFWOOD IS NO LONGER CONTRACTED BY THE EYE OF MICHAEL AT THE END OF THE SEASON??? Some people say that Wolfwood still works for them, but tbh for what reason? They’re about to end the world. And then what about this line? He wouldn’t exactly have a choice, would he? I do think we’re gonna meet Chapel (right before Livio shoots himself, you’ll hear a voice and see a silhouette (not Razlo, though he’s there too) that seems to be a “new” character), and Wolfwood might end up working under him for some fucked up reason... But if not, this changes everything. It already changes everything considering how big Wolfwood escorting Vash to Knives is. But that’s done now. And because Vash saw right through him the first time, if Wolfwood comes back to do the same thing again, it might feel cheap and a little silly.

MERYL!!! Trimax is basically the Vash and Wolfwood show, right? The girls are around, but mainly their interactions are with Vash. But he and Meryl interact so much just over the course of twelve episodes. They even have that adorable group shot. She matters enough that he came back to rescue her, and the two of them worry about Vash together in the finale. Who knows what happened post-finale, but Wolfwood’s self isolation is already shot to hell. He’s more big brother Nico than he’d had the chance to be in awhile, he has so many people to care for.

So the danger has passed, Vash’s roots are back inside of him, the orphanage should be fine. But Wolfwood comes back for them. Yeah, yeah, the stupid cigarette excuse, but this is Wolfwood, not Vash. He didn’t come back because of the cigarette debt and we all know it. (Also kinda hoping that him saying what he does about fighting Knives being crazy is foreshadowing for some ridiculous 1v1 fight between them, had to throw that in there)

Now, theories Trimax spoiler time bby (I’ll also post any corrections under the cut):

EDIT 1: I was bonkers wrong on the Tristamp timeline (it takes place from May 25th to July 21st, not including the epilogue), so I just deleted that bit from the og post. I cannot remember where I got that number in my brain.

They are doing something with this man and I hate it as much as I love it. Every other character can go off and follow similar paths but they just nuked the entirety of Wolfwood’s storyline by having him be finished getting Vash to Knives and him choosing to trust Vash so goddamn early. And in less than a week of canon time!!! ORANGE WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!!!

They’ve knocked everything out of the park so far, I had so many concerns about what they were doing while watching, and they squashed most of them. So I choose to have faith that Orange has a brilliant plan that will crush my emotions in mind. It will probably eviscerate us just like Trimax did. But I have two theories as to how this could go:

First: And by far the most likely: all roads lead to that goddamned couch. They changed a ton of things, but just to make it all hurt in a new and exciting way. Don’t get me wrong, this was the final straw in making Trimax one of my favorite manga ever--Wolfwood’s character arc is one of the most satisfying things I’ve ever read. I’m a bit nervous because we’ve already shifted that arc so much, but there’s a lot of room to fuck us all up in this one. I imagine the final confrontation will still be between the two brothers, but I imagine the context will be different.

Wolfwood’s already chosen to spare Livio, so that won’t be the clincher, but there are so many things that Wolfwood wants to fight for now to use against him. Something in the timeskip will probably firm up his ideals to be the opposite of Vash’s in a different way than before, but I imagine we’ll get at least a season of them being goofy and learning how to live and regain their humanity together before they’re couched. :’) And now the girls are going to be a bigger part of it to make the grief all that greater :’))) Thanks in advance, Orange :’))))))

Second: No couch??? I know, then what would be the point? He’s doomed in every universe, how will it be as powerful if they don’t do that here??? And I agree, I think this is way less likely. But Wolfwood has already accepted the power of anime Jesus friendship into his life, and that’s a huge part of what lead to his death. Not that I don’t think it’s still likely for Tristamp Wolfwood to think it’s too much to ask Vash to step away from the conflict with Knives for whatever his personal struggles are, but... man that sandsteamer incident is foreshadowing something and I’m afraid. It shifted so much in a way that is so significant, I feel like I’m not doing it justice with my words.

Speaking of possible foreshadowing: Wolfwood isn’t the product of random experimenting like he was in Trimax, he’s the product of plant experimentation. And Vash can heal plants. Again, that’s a big ol’ stretch, as I think that they made the Gung Ho Guns a product of plant experimentation to try and explain the magic powers they all have, and it’s a very smooth idea imo. But it haunts me. Also, given that Conrad has probably been kept alive through fucked up plant methods and how long Rollo remained the same, and Conrad said the only flaw in his experiments were that they had to eat and drink... does Wolfwood and Gung Ho Gun friends have an extended lifespan??? Okay, getting off topic, sorry :’D

Basically, Wolfwood has already made huge leaps and bounds in trusting Vash, even listening to Meryl, and growing a heart for humanity. To the point I was half-afraid this guy was going to die in the finale, because we’ve already seen so much of his character arc. (It would have been a poor choice and I’m happy it didn’t happen EVEN IF I’M STILL AFRAID). And he’s based off of Trimax Wolfwood quite heavily! You can see it in the core of his personality still!!! WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO WITH HIM???

I doubt either of these ideas are going to be quite right, watch as Orange works in a secret, third thing that I can’t even imagine lmao. But this has been driving me absolutely bonkers and I had to share. This is still Wolfwood, and I have a feeling he’s only going to be more and more of the lovable asshole from here on out. But I have no idea where we’re going with it.

Holy hell, this was a long post. If you made it to the end of my insane ramblings well, uh... congrats??? I hope it was somewhat worth the read???? I’m so sorry?????? Thank you??????????

[collieii]

a lil detail in trimax i like is how it shows meryl and wolfwood grappling with vash's inhumanity. wolfwood sees vash's power, what he's capable of, before he really gets to know who vash is as a person (they met for a lil on the bus ofc but that was pretty brief). he sees him blow a hole in the moon right after meeting him. of course he's heard rumors about vash, but then he sees him and knives up close and personal, sees the angel arm, and he can't believe vash is an ordinary man anymore. he's confused, shocked, and scared, because he barely understands what's happening. but he can clearly see that vash is dangerous and inhuman. so a lot of his arc is him struggling to reconcile his knowledge of that power with his relationship with vash. ultimately, he ends up with an understanding of who vash is, what he values, and he comes to share those values and beliefs. he learns to let himself trust and believe in vash, despite the implications of his powers.

and meryl, ofc, knows vash as a man and as a friend before she learns what he's capable of. then it isn't until the midvalley/hoppered arc that she's not only told explicitly by zazie what vash is, she sees it for herself in a pretty violent way when he loses control and goes bird mode (what do i call feathery vash lol). not only that but she's shown his memories of july, probably the most brutal and visceral expression of his power there is. that experience traumatizes her, but she makes an effort to overcome that instinctive fear of what vash is because she knows she can trust him, and that almost everything he does is for the good of humanity. and he deserves to be treated like a good person, a good friend, because he is one! he's not just his powers of biblical proportions. all this is to say i like how trimax lets us see two people who are close to vash come to terms with his plantness in different ways, because it's not something people can just shrug off, it's something they need to process.

[firethekitty]

i really love these panels of some of the last times we see vash and wolfwood together (before That Part) because you can see just how much wolfwood genuinely cares about vash far beyond his “job” and how badly he doesn’t want vash to worry about him, especially during such a high-stakes mission

and how wolfwood doesn’t even bother trying to hide how much he himself is worrying about vash’s safety. and vash can see this and it’s obvious he appreciates it, but he also knows that acknowledging wolfwood’s concern would most likely cause him to get embarrassed, so he’s very gentle in his reassurance, doesn’t make a big deal out of it, kind of deflects his worry

wolfwood immediately moving to follow vash only to get blocked by elendira. he looks so uncomfortable here, like he desperately wants to protect him or say something or do literally anything but let him go off on his own...

also the way wolfwood specifies feeling a sense of dread and oppression from knives, not vash, even though he can clearly see feathers on his face

this really stands out to me because wolfwood was fucking terrified of vash at first. he also knows that knives has the ability to make vash lose control, and a part of him will probably always be scared of that, but that doesn't mean he's scared of vash. because despite everything, wolfwood trusts vash more than anyone else on the planet