#topic.lams essay controversy

[hamiltonconfessions-but-better]

ahaha okay let’s do this then! let’s do the evidence game you bitter fuck!

(and know that it’s people just like you that people are talking about when the talk about unbearable lams fans. you’re exactly the type of person people can’t stand and will swerve fandoms to avoid. you ruin it for the good ones, baby girl.)

i never said just trust me, but this is a confession blog, not a paper, but since you think you can just pop on here and “basically say it’s real bc trust me guys!” then we can actually give reasons.

all of this “evidence” comes from the fact that you all take poetic, flowery, common language used regularly in the 18th century as romantic when affection language was SUCH a historically inappropriate thing to “use as proof.” it’s speculation PURELY. you can make no definitive claims of a homosexual relationship between them, but you CAN about hetero relationships for both of them. but let’s go back to the language thing. it was the culture at the time and the absolute hallmark of male friendships (knot, sarah. sensibility and the american revolution. university of north carolina press, 2009.) and these expressions were seen as “noble and heroic and something to be celebrated” having dear friends like that was seen as virtuous which is why there’s absolutely no public record of laurens or hamilton being questioned about sodomy (which, i can tell you don’t know much, so let me inform you that sodomy was socially, civilly, religiously, and legally seen as horrible.) yet no one ONCE caught wind of something being off besides the typical political slander that came for everyone. because this behavior was normal. (Rotundo, E. Anthony. American Manhood: Transformations in Masculinity from the Revolution to the Modern Era. Basic Books, 1993.)

Thomas Foster, Gregory Massey, Joanne Freeman, Michael Newton. These are just a few historical scholars that agree that taking the leap that “LAMS IS TOTALLY REAL GUYS!1!1!1!” is an ignorant leap to take and based completely on modern understandings. i will GLADLY send you their academic papers and books on the subject if you wish, but i doubt that you’ll care about any of that will you?

now name one historian with credentials that confirms without a doubt that your little fujoshi ship was real life and not just your private time jerk material. show me these well-informed scholars because right now i’m just laughing in your goddamn face. and notice how you said CONTEMPORARY CONTEXTS which is the same lens i said had to be applied to see it, but i think you’ve read so much yaoi smut that it’s rotted your brain. no reputable scholar will say that, without a doubt, they were together BECAUSE LETTERS LIKE THAT ARE NOT HARD EVIDENCE. i’m going to go by what actual educated people say than some weirdo on tumblr.

and who the fuck do you think you’re talking to like that? you rude bitch. i wasnt trying to “disprove” anything. i was trying to say you annoying ass bitches have no right to harass other people when your evidence is ZILCH. maybe i’m just an undergrad, but it appears you can’t read very well, beloved. bc that was not the point of my post at ALL. i’m stating facts. you cannot call it canon. it is NOT confirmed.

and i’m a proudly educated queer so i do know better than some little bitch on tumblr <3 and i care more about actual lgbtq+ history than some half-baked, often times disrespectful depiction of historical homosexuality. i BEG you to read something other than ao3 and tumblr. take your head out of your ass and return to the real world for us, love.

confessions referenced: 1

[hamiltonconfessions-but-better]

why r u guys writing a big ass paragraph about shipps lmaoooo ain't nobody gaf 😭🙏

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[hamiltonconfessions-but-better]

holy shit that response with citations is a lot but it's also the most alexander hamilton-coded crash out i've seen on this account yet 😭 like yessss queen cite those sources for us while calling us goddamn stupid bitches

confessions referenced: 1

[hamiltonconfessions-but-better]

you guys might fight me for this one, but the lams letters were 1. very historically typical for how males spoke to each other in that time period and 2. mostly just them being misogynistic to the point it came off as gay. i major in history and i'm also a part of the lgbtq+ community so trust me when i say, i'm not just saying this to bash you all. i love lams as much as the next guy, and i hate to break this to you guys. yet it's simply not as confirming as you think it is. it's fine to read it as queer through modern context and fiction, but please, for the love of any god you believe in, do not run off on other ships because your's is "canon." it is not canon in the musical and more than likely not canon in real life. we're all just having fun here.

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[hamiltonconfessions-but-better]

well to the anon who asked for controversy I hope you're happy now lmao... watching these guys (gender neutral) argue with popcorn in hand

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[hamiltonconfessions-but-better]

This whole lams essay controversy seems so strange to me but i mostly agree w/ the person who wrote it.

Like, listen guys, we can't confirm that lams were real, neither we can't disapprove it.

If they had something romantic between them, the most of hints were probably destroyed.

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[hamiltonconfessions-but-better]

i never equated queer and sodomy and that completely misrepresents my argument. but sodomy laws very much effected queer relationships at the time so it is very relevant to the conversation at hand. the historical context of that matters. those are the laws that would have effected them. how is it a “sodomy mindset” when it’s… literally historical fact? and sharing information that is academically sourced after you were the one who challenged me isn’t exactly what i would call “condescending.” and i have over and over again said that fictional and other interpretations of lams is cool and i actually like that. my main point was that people cannot harass other people and call lams canon bc that is not fact. you might not have been talking about proof or evidence, but that was literally all my initial post was about. so maybe you should go back and reread it. and don't talk about me being condescending when you were the one who came after me first. if you snark at me, i'm going to snark back. but sure. let's focus on semantics instead of the fact that you started an argument you can't possibly win because, frankly, you're wrong.

confessions referenced: 1

[hamiltonconfessions-but-better]

To the bro who posted a whole essay on why lams sucks:

Bro do you need to unpack anything I’m so fr right now I am genuinely concerned about you please speak to someone if you aren’t feeling well or are having anger issues

confessions referenced: 1

[hamiltonconfessions-but-better]

lol i’m pedantic and presumptuous? when they’re the person who is using undergrad as an insult and saying that i didn’t have evidence and was “just saying stuff?” and being patronizing by calling me baby girl? i gave them my proof bc they questioned my character and acted like i was just claiming to know everything bc i said i was queer. i’m not going to sit back while someone insults me like that. i gave them what they said i didn’t have, which is reasoning. maybe you haven’t read the other posts or are their friend, but they came for me first being disrespectful and rude for no reason.

confessions referenced: 1

[hamiltonconfessions-but-better]

ngl the citations and stuff was hilarious, and all of y'all who are mad about it are exactly why they did it which makes it better. also, you guys are just proving the point that lams shippers ruin it with their gross behavior

anyways, like we said, lams is boring can we argue about something else now?

confessions referenced: 1

[hamiltonconfessions-but-better]

not the person who sent the initial ask or the essay one, but to be fair, the person who wrote the essay was being polite in the first confession and then they were just defending themself. i wouldn’t call it a pedestal really. but i don’t know half the words you guys are using so maybe i’m not meant to speak in this argument

confessions referenced: 1

[hamiltonconfessions-but-better]

Okay undergrad babygirl <3 I was going to spend some more time arguing with you but it seems that you're stuck in the "queer" = "sodomy" mindset and that's just Ugh, so. Thank you so much for downsplaining to me about sentimental 18th century language and I'm sorry that you are not open to interpretations that other scholars have given of the same texts suggesting (did I say "proof"? nope) that there is basis for a queer reading. Also here for your elucidation is the definition of the word "contemporary" - "Belonging to the same era or period as another person, thing, or event" (obviouslyyyyy from the context I meant "contemporary to the period being discussed" not "right now, today" lmao). Best of luck!!

confessions referenced: 1

[hamiltonconfessions-but-better]

LMAO @ undergrad history major disproving historical lams because... I dunno, "trust me, guys"?? While multiple books and journals published by well-informed scholars argue that there's something there (giving all the contemporary context and appropriate caveats). But no bbygirl you're LGBTQ so obvi you know better <3 <3 <3

confessions referenced: 1

[hamiltonconfessions-but-better]

Pedantic. And presumptuous. I'm not even the person that ask was aimed for but holy shit dude get out of the pedestal

confessions referenced: 1

[hamiltonconfessions-but-better]

topics

topic.amrev discourse topic.fanfiction topic.“get a job” controversy topic.headcanon anon controversy topic.incest topic.lams essay controversy topic.noncon topic.self-harm topic.ship wars topic.straight john laurens controversy topic.suggestive topic.the issue of the two philips topic.the search for the pedophile topic.🍂 anon controversy topic.epic versus hamilton topic.caps topic.nsfw jeffmads artist controversy topic.the synesthetes of the hamilton fandom