#togashi just. he did that!

[mayxo-hxh]

Unlike the anime, Hisoka changes his outfit multiple times in the election arc manga version.

He switches his outfit discreetly throughout the day(s) to match Illumi's! By the end of the arc, his last appearance had him matching outfits with Illumi fully minus the shoes. UNTIL....................

When Hisoka went to assassinate teradein, he changed his heels to flat shoes. Makes sense, right? He should be quiet after all. But wait a second. why do these shoes look familiar-

Oh.

OH.

OH.

THEY SWITCHED SHOES.

ILLUMIS OUT THERE WALKING WITH HEELS IN THE WILD WHILE WAITING FOR HISOKA TO FINISH THE JOB. INSANELY GAY.

Here's more side by side comparisons for the outfit changes;

hehe gay husbands

[monosanimegenericzone]

Hunter x Hunter: crazy theory guys. hear me out.

adjusts tie. fixes notes.

me, delusional: togashi is leaving bono up on tier one alone so that he can get an encounter with kurapika and we get an actual explanation of what happened leading up to the kurta massacre from the troupe's perspective.

me, still delusional: because bono is apparently very talkative since thats one of the activating conditions for metamorphosen and since there's no chrollo to stop him, bro yaps.

me, 10000% delusional: and we finally get some kind of answers involving tserreidnich because we know his tattoo artist was involved in meteor city crime so there is a loose connection there but like i am desperate-

me, also delusional: or we get the reveal that spider number 10 has been swapped out more than once and bono joined after the massacre.

which would be the most underwhelming plot twist in the century but i'll take it.

my boy. my lad even. is popping off.

im having thoughts.

[worldend]

my opinion on hxh has been kind of weird for a while but i still think about kurapika pretty often. this volume cover is so transgender

[your-favourite-plague]

I wanted to check when the Kalluto debut chapter was released and apparently it was on my birthday??? huh??? what???

[llycaons]

the littlest boys are watching hxh! second brother cannot remember anyone's name but third brother loves killua <3 and dislikes leorio LMAO I think we have the same taste in a lot of things actually, this is the one who loves mp100 and who watched cql with me

[fruiteggsaladit]

Every week or so I'll think about Urameshi "ACAB and that includes me" Yusuke potential.

[lunar-k4t]

isn’t it messed up that in togashi’s perfect ending gon’s legacy is being an absent father like his dad

[i-heart-hxh]

So, a few days ago I found this post on Reddit from 2 years ago (that sadly barely got any attention at the time) that sheds a ton of light on the separation scene between Gon and Killua, and my mind is blown! I've known for years that there was some sort of Togashi "coding" in the dialogue and it was always like I could get halfway to understanding, but this post gives the rest of the puzzle pieces that I was missing, and ties into other scenes that I was uncertain about the meaning of as well. It's heartbreaking, but also hopeful for their future! I had to share it with you all. Please read it!

The original Reddit post has been deleted, but here is a link to the author's Reddit profile. (I received permission from the original author to post this here.)

In-Depth analysis on the Hidden Reasons behind Gon & Killua's separation scene (ep 147) Why Gon is 'Number 2'

The translations across the separation scene in both manga (chp 338) and the anime (ep 147, 2011) have some shortfalls. These dialogues are vital for understanding even the first layer of reasons behind this separation.

REASONS FOR KILLUA'S DELICATELY PLANNED SEPARATION 

1. WHEN -

There are very important reasons why Killua picked a specific timing to tell Gon about Alluka. It was Killua's plan all along, to only tell Gon at a moment's notice, to make sure Gon won’t get time to ask any DETAILS. He is deliberately downplaying the seriousness of everything he’s been through to heal Gon, so it will have less impact on Gon, and at the same time, avoid Gon asking details. Prior to healing Gon, Killua specifically asked Morel and Leorio to promise not to tell Gon that he saved him. After Gon was healed, there was a scene in the anime (ep 148) which showed the three spent a night together before reaching the World Tree. During that time, Killua still haven't said anything. It wasn't until the moment when they were literally saying the last goodbye, Killua casually brought up:

“Oh, by the way, this guy healed you."

I want to emphasis the word Killua used to address Alluka was “こいつ”. This is a very light and overly casual word used to address someone you know, and usually a playful guy friend (e.g. “This guy used to be my neighbour.” type of feeling). The manga and anime translation, “She’s the one that healed you,” did not clearly depict the intentional casualness.

2. WHAT was SAID -

If Killua just doesn’t want to burden Gon with guilt and responsibility, then why not just keep his mouth shut and say nothing? That’s because Killua found a better option than not telling Gon anything. Killua shifted the “priority of reasons” a bit, so the VERSION OF EVENTS he told Gon, was PRIORITIZED on Alluka’s rescue rather than healing Gon. This way, they will also get to THANK Gon, and put an emphasis on thanking Gon because Killua make it SEEMED like it was more important to rescue Alluka, that the INITIAL REASON for Killua to go home, was to rescue Alluka. Only AFTER Alluka was freed, they came to the hospital to heal Gon, out of convenience, since only Alluka has the ability to do so, and since she’s now outside. The MAIN motive for these past events has been delicately swapped around by Killua, so the focus switched to the rescue of Alluka, rather than healing Gon. Hence Alluka is “No. 1”, Gon is “No. 2”. Downplaying it so healing Gon was just a bonus convenience (ep 147, 19:12 to 19:51).

Killua then goes on another level to make this version of events seem even more realistic, by saying “….You owe me a lot now,” in a teasing and playful tone of voice. This is to again, downplay the seriousness of everything he’s been through, to comfort Gon that "Yes you owe me one now, but don’t you worry! I will make sure you pay it back okay?! Hehe!”

3. WHY -

The fight with Pitou allowed Killua to witness Gon's ultimately immature mind set when it comes to “repaying someone, and redeeming himself.” Kite lost an arm and his life to protect him. So Gon gave his life and was even more happy when Pitou took his arm too. Gon will always want to “match” what was sacrificed by another, by throwing away AT LEAST the same. Not “sacrificing”, but THROWING AWAY. It’s so immature, so dangerous, no one will be able to keep up with him. Killua was very confident with how much he could take, but even Killua himself is at limit. This ultimate baka!! (ep 136, 17:50 - 20:17)

If this is how far Gon will go for Kite, he can only imagine what Gon would go recklessly into if he knew the DETAILS. This is when Killua decided on a way to part with Gon the way they did, and to PROVIDE him a particular REASON.

“I’m prepared to spent the rest of my life protecting her.” 

This is the reason Killua wants Gon to know, but NOT what he actually wants to do with his life. Although it’s true he feels responsible and genuinely wish to protect Alluka and Nanika, but it’s not what he ultimately WANTS to do. He NEEDS to protect Alluka, but he WANTS to spent his entire life by the side of a certain baka…

After the previous events, Killua was traumatized, especially when he saw Gon's twisted decaying arm. That was a breaking point for him, after that, the only thing that matters THE MOST for him is for Gon to be safe. He also realized that in order to protect this baka... it’s better if he keeps a distance for now, until he finds a solution to keep Alluka safe from Illumi and his family.

4. THE PARTING -

By planning this parting with Gon, Killua hopes Gon will become detached from him. And that time and distance will slowly render him less important to Gon. So if he was to die... (because Illumi is hunting them down) he did for Alluka, he did it for the vow to protect Alluka, not Gon. We knew Killua always plans ahead, and here, he plants this reason for Gon in the future so he won’t need to feel responsible if he was to die protecting Alluka (or die with Alluka while Illumi is hunting them). This is what’s going through Killua’s head:

“If I die, you’re not responsible for anything. You don’t owe me anything, so NEVER throw your life away again. My only one wish, is for you to be safe. So here I am. I’m parting ways with you... Because I SAID you are only ... No. 2 ... I SAID you are not the most important to me.. So don’t think of me as the most important to you too….”

This, is Killua’s eternal Devotion. 

5. THE RESULT -

As a result of this deliberate planning by Killua,

Gon was made to believe:

While I was recovering in hospital Killua had to go home and rescue his sister 

Alluka is such a cute sister and she can grant Killua any wish?!!! Wow…that’s one cool sister…

Well… no wonder Killua thinks his cool sister is more important than me, it’s only natural. 

Looks like Killua finally found what he wants to do. He will enjoy traveling the world with such a cool sister, it will be so much fun. I should be happy for him, I can’t hold him here... I have to let him go…

VS

The DETAILS omitted:

Gon was not recovering at all in the hospital. Killua RESORTED to USE Alluka in order to heal Gon. 

Alluka’s blood stained dark past and the risks and uncertainty that still involves.

Baka Gon is always No. 1 !

Killua and Alluka are desperately trying to find a way to out of Illumi’s grasp. Illumi is hunting them down and trying to make Killua his puppet again. And this time it's not going to be just a needle in the head... Killua can feel it. And if things doesn’t work out, he will just kill Alluka.

These Reasons are the core of the separation. We have a song named “Reason”… aren’t the lyrics shedding a new layer of light now?

6. IMPORTANT WORDS ALLUKA USED TO FACILITATE A BETTER RELATIONSHIP AFTER REUNION -

Killua promised to “always be together” with Alluka.

But to this promise, Alluka’s response was always silent (episode 145, 3:32 to 4:19). She looked at Killua with deep thought. Because even in such a short amount of time, she realized Killua is doing all this to ALSO or MORE SO protect Gon. It was never just for her, it will never be just for her, and there will never be anyone more important than Gon for Killua. She’s moved by Killua’s devotion and resolve, and she can also feel his sadness…   

If, the situation was different, if Gon was never there to begin with, and Killua just happened to solely come to Alluka’s rescue, and then make a promise to stay together with her forever, Alluka’s natural reaction will be melting with happiness, she’d be crying tears of joy, and hugging Killua. But in this instance, she was composed, she sensed her brother’s deep seriousness and sadness. That’s why later on, she reassured the two at parting, that they will see each other again, without disclosing Killua’s true REASONS. 

The Exacted words Alluka used (Manga chpt 338, 2011 anime epi 147)

a. Manga translation: “I’m going to HUG my brother for a while and then I will LET HIM GO.”  

b. Better translation: “I’m going to have my brother all to myself for a while and then I will let him free.”                            

c. The exacted phrase: “I’m going to Monopolise my brother Exclusively for a period of time, then I will Release him.”

���り占 (Monopolise Exclusively) 

Very strong characters with Explicit meaning. Have it all to oneself. Same characters and meaning used in Chinese as well. （独占）

解放 (Release) 

This is much more formal and serious than “let go”. It implies the subject was initially bound/locked/restricted. Also the same characters and meaning used in Chinese.

Alluka employed these words to imply a forceful lead in this “deal” of owning Killua exclusively. These words have an underlying tone of enslavement. 

Why? Because Alluka knows, the harder she IMPOSES herself on Killua during their time together, the more effective it would be on the easing of Killua’s own guilt. 

Killua felt immensely guilty.

No one will enjoy a relationship bound by guilt. 

Alluka knows clearly that part of her brother’s promise, was formed with guilt, from using her and Nanika, that he was having fun with Gon while Alluka was literally forgotten. Although it's true that this was largely due to Illumi's manipulation, but the fact that he did just left her in the basement all this time was both unacceptable and unforgivable to Killua himself (episode 138, 13:28).

Therefore apart from protecting Gon, this was the other important reason for this separation. Almost as if Killua has accepted this as a befitting price to pay in order to redeem himself as a brother.

Alluka and Nanika have no condition nor demand in return for Killua’s requests. But Killua imposed a price on himself for having Gon healed. Out of guilt. Alluka knows, Nanika knows. That’s why Alluka used the word 解放 (release), because it will make Killua feel better, that he has complied with her ‘enslavement’, so when the time comes, Killua will be able to release HIMSELF from guilt, and go back to Gon, properly. Alluka loves her brother, and she’s prepared to help him towards a better relationship with Gon in the future, by helping him to eliminating this chain of guilt.

lol Alluka totally ships Gon and Killua ! XD

Thank you for reading.

[justxtalking]

all the times gon showed affection, interest, care and basically relied on killua

Did I search all the times Gon explicitively expressed his affection to Killua? Yes, yes I did. Do I regret it? No, no I don't.

I decided to choose the manga since it's what Togashi wrote. However, it is important to note that there are a lot of more times if we add both versions of the anime and the movies. In addition to this, I chose the most explicit times in which Gon expressed himself so there is no misunderstanding. (Though I do think it's basically the whole manga.)

This post is hella long and had to be divided into parts, so bear with me. This is just the beginning. (Edit: Here's the link of the full post.)

Hunter Exam arc

When they first met and Gon was impressed by Killua's trick.

2. Gon happy to be with Killua and to explore with him.

3. Gon's interest in Killua's family, and surprising Killua in the process.

4. Gon being impressed by Killua's technique, curious about it and expressing "Killua is an amazing guy."

5. Gon defending Killua against Illumi and seeing right through the situation.

6. Gon swearing to take Killua away from Illumi.

Zoldyck Family arc

7. Gon's refusal for the Zoldyck's intent on separating themselves from the rest of the world and more than ready to climb the wall if it is to reach Killua.

8. Gon's phonecall with Gotoh.

9. Gon's intent on climbing up the wall to reach Killua.

10. Gon accepts to train if it means he will reach Killua.

11. Gon getting hit over and over again if it means he will reach Killua.

12. Gon playing against Gotoh while waiting for Killua.

13. Gon happy to see Killua again.

14. Gon impressed by Killua's ability to know other's strenghts, and embarrassing Killua in the process.

Heavens Arena arc

15. Gon relying on Killua's advice to win.

16. Gon happy because Killua wanted to go to his house.

(+)

Click here for the full post.

[cafejulii]

Kurapika being deemed by the hxh fandom as one of, if not the most, aesthetically pleasing character in all of hxh is ironically hilarious to me.

While I agree with this sentiment to an extent, as someone who is very keen to elements that make up an inherent sense of asethetic, canonically speaking; it should be expected that Kurapika has almost everything that would go against having a cohesive one. If anything, I am in firm belief that the main reason why he holds such a title is due to the manga covers along with the elegantly crafted filler added in hxh 1999 in which depicts the suffering intertwined with the discovery of his nen ability in such an artistic manner, which then created the baseline aesthetic for the lovely artists of this fandom to further expand upon.

But outside of this? Even so, many hxh fans still agree that he holds a sense of aestheticism to him. It truly does not matter that his color palette is all over the place, or that he would absolutely not care for style, and that, when not his cultural attire or a suit; he dresses as though he had walked into each of his friends closet's, picked out one item from each one, and wore them all together and called it fashion. (They absolutely do not match at all and Killua would absolutely have a stroke at the sheer sight of such grievous combinations).

Specifically talking about these 2011 official arts in which he is one step away from becoming Armin Artlert. (Even complete with the seagull)

Either that, or he dresses like a recently divorced wine mom. Or a butch lesbian. Not to feminize him in any way of course. It’s just the observed truth. It’s just the, pure, unavoidable reality when you dress in those particular color combinations, wear flannel or an oversized sweater, and have that oh so particular “fuck ass bob.”

Specifically talking about these 1999 official arts. A friend of mine had pointed out to me that the one on the right reminded them of Major Hughes’s wife from FMA and I couldn’t stop laughing. Poor 1999 official art Kurapika they did him so wrong.

Though there also many instances in the 1999 official arts in which he does a complete 180, and dresses as though he were the most insufferable character in a shitty 90’s mafia movie. While yes, in the manga, he is technically a mob boss as of now, I genuinely could not fathom watching the absolute mess of succession war unfold with a straight face if he dressed like this.

Yet even still, we have a multitude of artists making the most breathtaking artworks that depict him in agony while holding the eyes of his people almost as if he were some sort of sacrilegious patron, a lot of which are usually inspired Catholic/ Orthodox paintings. (I love these types of arts so much)

Now thinking about it, I suppose, maybe he is so aesthetically appealing because he is an androgynous presenting man with heavy backstory that has many symbolic ties to Christianity as he is representative of Lucifer in juxtaposition to Chrollo who is seen as this twisted version of Jesus Christ. And as we know, it was Lucifer who was considered to be the most “ beautiful of all the angels.”

But anyway, I digress. Bro is just ethereal. Congratulations togashi for creating a character so intentionally-unintentionally aesthetic.

(also this is very much a shitpost please I beg don’t take this seriously at all)

[silverhypnos]

I could be 100% wrong, but I just think it's funny that Chrollo is casually in the background.

It's interesting too, because if this is what Togashi intended that means when Uvo was fighting Kurapika, he left the base to explore alone??? Obviously, at that point, the Mafia did not have his face photographed so he was safe to do so, but it's still interesting.

If you want to see it yourself, it's in Chapter 81

[skrunksthatwunk]

so sensui was bad DID rep but i will say that at least it wasnt the DID that made him a bad guy. it was a (human, in character) trauma response and there wasnt any like,, evil alter behind everything. like nah thats not the problem the whole system is down to end humanity. group project

[ragde890]

Hunter x Hunter 405 is probably the best chapter of this batch so far.

(commentary incoming)

The whole Hisoka monologue is just so good. It also reinforces Hisoka's actual obsession. A lot of people seem to misinterpret Hisoka as someone with a "fetish for powerful people". This is not completely wrong, but it is inaccurate. Hisoka's actual fetish comes from a power fantasy. It's not powerful people what turns him on: it is the fact that he will be stronger, he will defeat them. And not only that, he will destroy them. He has to come at top. That's why, when he fights Kastro, he isn't satisfied by only beating him: he has to break his mind down, killing him mentally before he kills him physically. It is also something "romantic" in his mind. He doesn't just fight these people: he forms a bond of them before destroying them. He was very fond of Gon, Machi and Chrollo, and not just on a "they're strong; I wanna destroy them" level. That's also why he killed Shalnark and Kortopi after Chrollo beat him. His ego-driven power fantasy was shattered. His bruised ego made him petty, because he is a deeply childish person.

Also, fun fact. The thing Hisoka's dancing with looks like the weird toy/trap/magical beast seen in chapter 4. Likely a coincidence as it is just a very simple design.

Then we get the confirmation of the "Bonolenov is Hisoka" theory, which I did not expect. I talked a lot about this theory and people always treated me like crazy (although I must admit that I believed the "Chrollo is Hisoka" more than this one).

The "another fake?" line is weird, though. Is it a mistranslation or is he actually implying that this second Hisoka isn't Hisoka either? It doesn't seem realistic. Although imagine we had a situation where Bonolenov and Illumi are both transformed into Hisoka and Hisoka is transformed into Illumi. Very contrived. But it'd be hilarious.

Just as a fun fact, I know Bonolenov's abilities might look inconsistent, but they're not. In the Chimera Ant Arc, his hatsu allows him to summon a small replica of the planet Jupiter to crash his opponent. Now, he can transform with it. That's because Metamorphose is a reference to Ovid's Metamorphosis!

Then we get to the Lisnorth scene.

This guy is actually the same dude that was responsible of Sarasa's death.

We can now confirm that they did get revenge. It seems that Togashi's put this here to create a parallelism between the Troupe's revenge against Lisnorth back then and their revenge against Hisoka in the present.

We also got more Heil-Ly and The Troupe in this chapter, and Morena's "Joker" is mentioned.

So hyped for whatever Togashi is cooking with this.

[mayxo-hxh]

okay 2 questions....

do you think its more likely that illumi kills hisoka or hisoka kills illumi and how do you think it will go down?

what would you WANT to happen with one of their actual deaths?

You're not really going to like my answer here because it completely negates both questions.

I don't think either of them will die or kill each other.

I think it's natural to think so considering the current setting of the arc and what was revealed and their characters, but how I see it, their relationship has proven to be very nonsituational. As in, they aren't really hanging out and helping each other just because they happen to need each other here and there. They hang out and help each other because they unironically see each other as friends.

Illumi had no reason to help Hisoka out in the hunter exam, yet he did anyways. And they stayed together most of the time. Illumi had no reason to help Hisoka out during the yorknew dilemma, yet he did anyways. It's not even in his area of work to just disguise as people for a few hours before leaving. He's an assassin. Hisoka didn't have to help Illumi out during the election arc, Illumi was more than capable of finishing this entire mission alone. And yet he did anyways.

Goes without saying that Hisoka constantly calls Illumi his friend behind his back and also did so in front of him, and Illumi made no move to correct him.

So I can't really imagine, with all this said and done, that they'd actually have a reason to hunt and kill each other on the black whale. I understand the doubts with the stuff Illumi said in their marriage chapter but im still much more inclined to believe theyre working together against the troupe, as that would make much more sense. They've done nothing but work together against everyone in the entire anime and both Illumi and Kalluto worked against the troupe with Hisoka in yorknew after all.

I also feel like this is a general Hisoka misconception but-- Hisoka doesn't want to die. I feel like people think he hired Illumi to "hunt him down" because he wants Illumi to actually kill him and I have to disagree. Yes, it does speak volumes about what Hisoka thinks of Illumi, as in he truly is capable of killing him because theyre equals. But does Hisoka actually want Illumi to kill him right now? Negative.

Some people even say Hisoka has always wanted to go out in a huge fight or whatever-- I genuinely have no idea where tf they get that from lol. Hisoka brought himself back to life for a reason. He wants to live. He never planned on dying against Chrollo. He never ever plans on dying against people he fights. If Illumi and Hisoka were to ever truly fight, Hisoka would never let Illumi kill him without giving it his all. He WILL fight for his life.

And the same goes for Illumi. Illumi doesn't want to die and has no reason to want to actually die by Hisoka's hand. He has duties and responsibilities as a Zoldyck eldest and he's not going to throw it away in the name of... twisted love? lol

And I think lots of people find all of this hard to believe because theyre very used to villains getting bad endings or getting "what they deserve" in anime which is completely fair but let me, no, ALLOW ME to point you to one of my favorite villain groups in hxh that had a good ending despite being complete pieces of shit that would've deserved worse than death.

Genthru and the bomber team.

Genuine shitty people that scammed lied massacred people. They only cared about each other a lot but saw everyone else around them as lower than useless scum. They would've deserved to be left for dead. And yet, what happened? They were healed and they lived. They went on with their lives. Togashi could've very much made Gon just kill genthru to show how powerful he is and his sense of justice blablabla but that just isn't what the anime is about. Everyone in hxh is morally grey. At the end of the day Gon, Killua, and Bisky just wanted the cards from genthru and his friends and moved on.

A lot of people fail to realize this when it also comes to Hisoka and Illumi. They can just get a good ending like that. Do they deserve it? No. Does it matter whether they deserve it or not? Nope! This is hunter x hunter. And as far as I see it, its an anime about the power of platonic and romantic love. And Hisoillu are a specific type of love that is going to get a happy ending despite not even remotely deserving it. We got the meruem and komugi sad love ending. And we're getting the gay version of it except theyre unredeemable and horrible and they still get to be happy. Those are my thoughts.

Also in general I just genuinely cannot see Togashi continuing the anime without his favorite babygirl Hisoka being alive. Like even when he killed him off he revived him like 2 pages later in the same chapter he can't stand the idea of even letting his death marinate for a single chapter lmfaoooooooooo

[subdee]

The more I think Phantom Troupe thoughts, the more I become convinced that "actually the phantom troupe wasn't responsible for the Kurta Clan massacre" is the funniest twist the manga could take, BTW.

Not in a "the Phantom Troupe did nothing wrong" kind of way (bleugh), but in a "they are a group of thieves and mass murderers but THIS PARTICULAR mass murder was someone else" kind of way.

Partially because Kurapika starts the manga SO SURE it was them, and instead of asking what evidence he had we all just accepted it.

Partially because it would be in character for what we know about Uvo for him to lie about committing mass murder to Kurapika just for the purpose of motivating him and making it a better fight.**

Partially because FOR YEARS the fandom has interpreted Chrollo's cryptic remarks when Kurapika kidnaps him and interrogates him in the car as evidence of his solipsism or his sociopathy... But what if he's being cryptic because he doesn't want to tell the truth about what happened (that the phantom troupe didn't do it), for whatever reason*** but he also knows someone on Kurapika's team can tell if he's lying? So he just says something technically true, and let's Kurapika draw his own conclusions...

But mostly because it would make some parts of the fandom real Big Mad. Haha.

Anyway, I'm going to like ...convince myself this is true if I keep this up, so just to be clear, I don't have any evidence that they didn't do it. I DO think that would be a massively funny (read: interesting, unexpected) turn for the manga to take.

**The 1999 anime actually has a similar plot point with Killua during the Hunter Exam... It's been a while but I FROM WHAT I REMEMBER Killua takes credit for killing this girl's father and fights her even though it was Illumi who killed him, just because karmically he is guilty of killing a lot of people so it's not like he's innocent in general, even if he didn't kill this particular person. And because avengers trying to get him is such a common thing that he doesn't even bother trying to explain himself to them... it's episode 11 of the 1999 anime btw if someone wants to check that I'm not totally misremembering this.

***Why would Chrollo not simply say they didn't do it, if they didn't do it? Maybe they were paid to take the blame. Maybe they have accepted blame for 10 years to bolster their rep as mass murderers and it would be weird to back out now. Maybe he doesn't think Kurapika would believe him - Melody or not - if he said they didn't do it, and he doesn't have evidence they didn't do it, so he finds it pointless to argue. There could be many reasons. But those lines in the car have been weird for a long time, I would love an explanation from Togashi for why Chrollo was such a weirdo in that scene.

[nynyhaha]

Spider Themes: Partial empathy and the effects of utilitarianism

A huge Spider centric philosophy rant where I’ll digress many times(sorry)

The Phantom troupe is an embodiment of the Robinhood troupe as much as it is a deconstruction and subversion of it. https://www.tumblr.com/nynyhaha/761225991501873152/phantom-troupe-failed-robinhoods

They don’t do what they do for fame or money,but when it comes to using horrible means for noble ends,they also fail. After years of pondering the Spider’s purpose,I’ve found that seeing them as a warped version of heroes makes the most sense. Ex-child soldiers,running rampant after they’ve outlived the anticipated period of self appointed service.

After Sarasa’s death Chrollo clearly states that he sees no possibility for achieving his goals peacefully, in his eyes they never had a chance to accomplish anything while staying the good guys.

Of course he couldn’t succeed if he didn’t even try! But why didn’t he,and why is there so little stopping a person as caring,responsible and community-minded as him from turning around and betraying humanity at large,detaching himself from all the good he could’ve caused?

I love that Togashi let the not yet Spiders as well as us,the audience,see this typical hero cartoon for children where the good always wins because of the magical purity of their hearts. Where if they just believe hard enough,it will be fine.

In reality..all Chrollo can do is bring flowers to honour the graves.

It means there was always a separation between fiction and reality for him,despite being eager to watch and dub the power-cleaners story,Chrollo never believed it. Or maybe he did before he found Sarasa,after which all the illusions he might’ve had shattered.

The knows it takes a sacrifice to make great change,not just of his life but of his morals.

Chrollo shows an unusual level of self awareness for a child. In the following panel he announces he’s going to become a villain. Not a rebel with a cause,or a noble avenger,a VILLAIN. His view is so pessimistic,that it must take a villain to defeat villains. There’s no way to keep his “pure heart” and all this talk about ✨faith✨ was bullshit. To me this is a very interesting summery of Chrollo’s view of his role. It’s how he assesses it before he actually does anything,which makes it all the more fascinating since we don’t know how much his outlook changed once he actually started his plans. Or do we?

Why utilitarianism? Isn’t the regret he shows here in advance indicative of deontology?

If I was tasked with defending the Spiders and presenting them in a more favourable light,I’d pull up with the combo of

-“us vs them” -> they were defending their very marginalised community that the world turned its back on,against such horrible organisations as the mafia. Their initial mission is self defense. One might also look at it the way aot fans do,where being mistreated by outsiders justifies crimes against them.

-utilitarian principles-> even if innocent people were hurt in the process,it’s worth it in the end because a greater number of innocents are saved.

Chrollo however,simply says he’s going to kill a lot of people,not specifying if

-he will kill more people than he’ll save

-he will kill more innocent people than he’ll save

-he will only kill bad people

-he will kill outsiders for the sake of meteorians

But I assume he’s going to kill those whose lives he still values,why else would he feel bad about it? In that moment we see a person who is torn between two extremes,and chooses one whole acknowledging the other.

Chrollo in that instance does NOT believe that killing evil outsiders is a righteous quest he’ll embark on,neither does he believe that killing many,even for the sake of saving many,is justified. He still decides to do it,just not as a hero,but as a villain.

Sarasa wouldn’t want it because she didn’t live long enough to experience loss and hate,altho she did experience extreme pain so who’s really to say she wouldn’t have wanted revenge? Either way,it seems Chrollo isn’t just talking about going against Sarasa’s principles,he’s talking about abandoning his own,that the two of them shared until she died together with his naivety and innocence.

The last three speech bubbles are the most puzzling for me. Unless by “repenting” he means being held accountable and paying for their crimes,this opens up crazy ideas about those kinds of people actually feeling bad about their crimes.And the notion that legal systems are powerful enough to cause such changes in a person.

This raises the question whether Chrollo will ever repent for his crimes.The answer is yes,he did already…Before he even committed anything.💀💀

Since this post is a HxH analysis mixed with philosophy,let’s look at honouring vs promoting values.

Honouring the value of human life would mean never ever taking it(Sarasa’s alleged view)

Promoting its value in this case would mean fighting for the recognition of meteorian lives by the world and stopping the mafia from killing more kids,even if for that you’d need to kill (Chrollo’s path)

In short,kid Chrollo holds values he’s willing to break and about to abandon.

The Spider ends up operating on the two principles mentioned above,valuing the whole over individuals and acting in favour of Meteor City at the cost of outsiders.

When I say “utilitarianism” I don’t mean maximising good or happiness,but acting in favour of the goal/organisation above all else

Inheriting values:One for all and all for one

The Elder here promotes the value of life of his people,he’s willing to sacrifice 31 of them to do so. Mathematically this seems stupid at first:killing 30 more people than the one originally harmed? Couldn’t more lives be saved by inaction? Couldn’t Chrollo keep his friends rather than losing four more over the death of one?

But,consider how this incident paints Meteor City,how actually standing up for themselves in such a brutal way does a great deal of inflicting fear on the world,likely preventing it from wronging Meteor City again. 31 people may die for the message,but spreading the message will help the sum of people living in Ryuseigai. Well,it’s supposed to help,and for the sake of argument let’s say it does.

Similarly 13 people giving up their lives can help the community as a whole. Will I ever shut up about the Spiders breaking the mafia deal? No.Because by doing so,they accept the responsibility of protecting their home from any threats AND getting the necessary money(haha,it can never be enough)

If just 13 people will commit enough crime to gather whatever the mafia was previously paying the city,there won’t be any need for human trafficking AND they’ll commit the crimes on their own terms! ✨Independence✨ through 🕸Spider Scapegoats🐐

Basically,the Phantom Troupe can be the sole solution to many problems,even if they’ll never solve the core of them. That,and the immense pressure that lies on them,might lead to nihilism and loss of any motivation which drove them to start what they do in the first place.

The loss of empathy

Chrollo’s definiting character trait is his relationship with humanity and his connection/disconnection from it. He’s speaking as if he’s not human himself,and in the fight vs Hisoka he displays just how deep he’s sunk on his journey.

He uses bodies as instruments(for utility),specifically the bodies of the audience(people who might not be “innocent”but have very little to do with him). He couldn’t care less about them. The Elder used the bodies of his own comarades,but how much did he care about them if he was capable of such a thing?

The Elders remain enigmatic but my impression of them is that of a powerful but inefficient council of people whose task is so enormous it numbed them to minor things such as necessary deaths. Much like the Spiders,the Elders have to use horrible means for an end too big to achieve. They don’t even have an end,they just run the worlds biggest orphanage and homeless shelter,a “safe” oasis for anyone abandoned and wronged by the world. They’re supposed to be fixing whatever injustice there is,they’re peak philanthropists and altruists,so much so that they’re willing to kill and arguably sell out (traffic) a number of residents for the sake of the whole of them.

It’s a matter of scale for them. Or maybe not even,it might not be about efficiency anymore.

They’re not unlike normal politicians,arguing about semantics instead of taking action. At least in that way the Spiders are better,and since “nothing has changed” the chapter illustrates exactly why the Spider is needed,the Elders have apparently always held this outlook.

Yes,because they actually go deal with the problem and figure out if the transformed residents can turn back. When they can’t,we see them expressing sadness about it

We even got Fei looking sad. Sad.FEITAN.Am I hallucinating?

Once Phinks figures out a way around feeling too bad about killing their fellow citizens,the other Spiders also regain their confidence,now knowing what to do. I’m grateful for the manga because the anime wasn’t as expressive with their expressions,lol.

We clearly see them concerned for people outside the troupe,and while Phinks hates feeling pity because he sees it as dishonourable for the ones turned,it’s obvious that that’s what he experiences.

Speaking of Chrollo..Wasn’t Phinks the one arguing against going to save him?

Self dehumanising/Cog in the machine

While the strong bons between members humanise them to no end and create the cognitive dissonance (how can this silly friend group commit such atrocities?) they actually show quite well just how much they have to put on line to live as they do.

If the Spiders didn’t care as much for each other we wouldn’t care as much for them either,and we wouldn’t see what the Spider-set up takes from them.

Firstly we have Shal causally determining someone’s worth by their ability ✨😀

Next we have Shizuku calmly speaking of her death as if she’s talking about the weather

This moment especially shows how much Chrollo’s cold,tactical approach can hurt,cause I was pretty annoyed at him at that moment. He’s only being reasonable tho,wanting to avoid more deaths while Nobunaga is being emotional. Still,his friend just died and while not letting that death influence them to the point of losing more people makes sense,the way Chrollo phrases it “you were willing to die,so Uvo was ok dying but those other members are crucial so they need to live” is very cynical. We know Chrollo is far from accepting Uvo’s death and his way of coping through the requiem can only do so much,however when he needs to,he shuts his emotions off completely.

Judging each other’s worth based on ability and how strategically useful they are to the Spider runs contrary to the notion of friendship,it forces them to see themselves and each other as instruments,as mere cogs in the machine. While some Spiders hold those principles more strongly,the whole organisation operates this way.

Chrollo designed it that way,since they all went into it ready to give up their lives,he made the organisation a priority but not the individual. Still,when the time finally comes to out his ideas to the test,only several members stay true to his principles.

This is the same Phinks who acted like a girly girl with a crush,worrying about Chrollo,unable to wait. Ok,maybe losing Pakunoda and seeing Chrollo through her eyes changed him,but I don’t think that’s likely. Phinks cares about Chrollo but he cares about the Spider more.

Feitan will also break rules of negotiation and risk Chrollo’s life to find out more information. He seems to see no obligation whatsoever to play fair and obey the enemy’s rules,I also don’t believe he has a concept of 🕸honour among thieves🕸but he did max out on loyalty.

While Phinks’ and Feitan’s actions seem to just stir up trouble,once we understand their pov it all makes sense.

If you put the Spider first,why would you NOT go above and beyond to ensure you have all knowledge you could possibly get and secure the most advantageous position? He’s not doing that because he’s a sneaky little shit but because he’s operating on the principle of maximising the Spider’s strategic advantage!(im such a good advocate for my boys)

We also can’t forget that the well-being of the Spider as a whole overlaps with the well-being of the majority of its legs,which means choosing the spider in practice is synonymous with playing it safe and protecting the remaining members

As harsh and damaging their approach may be,in some way it’s inevitable. There was no right choice in this dilema,and there was also very little certainty so it was a matter of trust.

-Kurapika might play dirty and actually control Pakunoda as far as they know

-Its Chrollo’s death vs a guaranteed but unspecified number of Spider deaths

-preventing further deaths is good both for the whole and the individual members

Also Chrollo being “worthless as a hostage” might just mean he’s on a democratic standing with the rest and isn’t more important than them. He likely made this rule to prevent others dying for him just because he’s Danchou (and failed)

Conclusion: An organisation such as the troupe HAS to operate on utilitarianism if it

-serves an important purpose (guard dog of Meteor City)

-is valuable by itself and most concerned with persisting

No matter how you look at it, whether the Troupe selflessly performs acts of necessary evil for their people,or if it’s a cult/collective entity that exists without any clear reason,it’s survival is more important than the survival of its individual members. Which is a shame,because it poisons the very bonds that were formed while they fought for their cause side by side.