#to want to enter a romantic relationship during the point of the love triangle or when he initially met vania (at least in canon events)

[mantaraysss]

i don't really like the popular fanon interpretation that cole is a super slick and flirty casanova when it comes to romance and anything of that nature. dude genuinely is just a goofy sweetheart who cares deeply for his friends, family, and those he considers family. he gets in his head a lot and honestly doesn't seem like the type to be fiending for a romantic connection, let alone being super flirty and forward in a romantic sense. i do however hc him as very lonely though, but not in a way where he'd be desperate to have a partner.

i feel like it'd be very rare for him to develop a genuine crush, and if he did, it would take a longgg time of knowing a person and going through a lot with them. i doubt he'd even realize his romantic feelings at first or even know/want to act on them, and when he eventually did, he would be extremely sweet, respectful, and reserved about it and the other person's boundaries.

[whateverisbeautiful]

Part of the epic reunion in TWOL was driven by after almost 8 years apart, Rick nor Michonne moved on and the yearning for their soulmate persisted despite all the barriers. Are there scenarios that you could imagine where both experiment with intimacy or a different type of connection and still find their way back to one another? I’m not imagining a love triangle but something like Siddiq and Michonne having a brief moment (instead of what played out with him and Rosita) deeper than great friendship ? Other thoughts?

Thank you for asking. 😊 While I think there isn't much that could stop Rick and Michonne from finding their way back to each other, I can't imagine a scenario where they try to briefly experiment with intimacy with other people. And I am super super glad that they didn’t enter into anything romantic with anyone else. To me, Rick and Michonne not moving on with anyone else in any way was the absolute right choice for those characters.

By spending all those years yearning only for each other, it really hammered home how profound Rick and Michonne’s connection is. To the point that even when they had to seriously consider that they may never see each other again they still wanted to spend the rest of their life committed to and in love with one another. I love that they both waited for each other for years and operated every day like they were still actively married.  

It also feels so full circle that both of them stayed so loyal to each other after their experiences with their past partners. They were let down immensely by Mike and Lori while they were away for a far briefer time. Michonne went on a run and Mike couldn’t keep their son alive when she was away. And Rick was in a coma for a few months and Lori had already fallen for and got pregnant by Shane. So it means a lot that now, even with their prolonged distance, Rick and Michonne get to see just how special they are to their partner and how loyal their partner wants to be to them, even when the time spent apart is not just a run or a few months, but nearly a decade.

I have pictured a scenario where during the post-Rick era of TWD, Judith asks Michonne if she’d ever date or let a new man in and she basically tells Judith that the few years with her dad were better than a lifetime with anyone else. I feel like that was both Rick and Michonne’s mentality. 

But while I would not have wanted to watch either Rick or Michonne explore new romantic relationships even if brief, it would have been interesting to see others take an interest in them. Because as beautiful as they are inside and out it’s just realistic that people would be interested in them, even tho they'd all get turned down. I think more men should have and would have tried to pursue Michonne during those six or seven years. And I just know that around the CRM, Rick was known as the hot man who doesn't talk to anybody. In TOWL, I did want to see how both Michonne and Rick would react to some guy in the CRM hitting on Dana.

Overall tho I’m just really grateful for how TOWL confirmed that what Richonne has is no ordinary love. I think they both knew any connection with someone new would greatly pale in comparison to what they found with each other because Rick and Michonne’s irreplaceable connection really is the epitome of deeply intertwined soulmates.

[thekatebridgerton]

here me out-

season 1 au…Kate is in England and gets to see Anthony in his sideburns

Ohh we need to talk about this. Ironically enough I do think that if Kate and Anthony had met during his fukboi era they would have actually been sort of reluctant friends.

Picture Kate training Edwina for her debut next year, sees this absolute mess of a man trying to marry off Daphne. And both despises him for doing that to his sister but also feels sorry for him because the man is obviously floundering. She basically marches up to him and tells him to get his act together. Then goes back to shepherd Edwina around. Because Edwina is not out in society yet and is making friends with Francesca and Eloise. But their big brother is a walking red flag.

So every once in a while Kate shows up at Anthony's house with her sister and her dog, and while Edwina is playing with Francesca, Eloise and Penelope. Kate indulges in her favorite pastime of roasting Anthony. Which means Daphne likes her a lot too. And invites Kate over even more often just to hear Kate call Anthony a clown.

I imagine there would be a love triangle at one point with Sienna, but more in the sense that Anthony would end up blurting out his relationship troubles to Kate in a moment of weakness and Kate would be like ' Wow, just wow, all this time I've been making fun of you, but turns out you're capable of getting hurt, man, I owe you an apology ' and Kate ends up listening to Anthony's whole story with Sienna and offering whatever comfort and advice she can give. Because she may not like him, and he's a misogynistic jerk, but darn, his mistress does seem to have him tied up in knots.

And Anthony gains a grudging respect for Kate, which people mention to Sienna who in turn gets jealous and tells Anthony he should be marrying someone like Miss Sharma, who comes from the gentry and is accepted in society, especially by his family.

Meanwhile Kate still suffers from an inferiority complex and refuses to admit she likes Anthony, especially after meeting Sienna in a ball, because Sienna is so beautiful and already Anthony's mistress and Kate refuses to like a man who keeps a mistress. Cue Anthony feeling like he's being torn between two women

The thing is that Kate actually does become his friend by the time Anthony finds Simon kissing Daphne and demands a duel. And it's Kate who's trying to talk him out of it and it's also Kate the person he goes to confide in when Simon agrees to marry Daphne. Because at least she already thinks the worst of him anyway and won't ask him to be something he's not... she can make fun of him, he'll even welcome it. And she does, Kate calls him an idiot and an ass anytime she gets a chance, especially for almost ruining Daphne's life. It's almost comforting how she doesn't care about his feelings.

Not even his mother would dare do that. And then at one point after Daphne is safely married and Anthony realizes that things with Sienna were not meant to work out. He keeps going back to visit the Sharmas, keeps promenading with Kate + the gaggle of little sisters she's managed to aquire, trying to extract a measure of respect from her. Which he never can manage

And at the end of s1 it just clicks that he doesn't want Kate to leave for the countryside and return next season. He wants her to stay... with him. So when Simon and Daphne tease Anthony about finding himself a wife and doing the family duty Anthony immediately thinks of his arch nemesis turned friend. And realizes that's the solution, he needs to marry Kate!

Time for a makeover and a personality clean up.

Enter Season 2 Anthony, reformed with his sideburns shaved ready to give chase to the sister of the diamond of the season. And Kate being both elated but also baffled by his romantic attention and super scared he's going to change his mind.

Meanwhile people think he's trying to court Edwina. And we come full circle.

[picklepie888]

How Final Space Handled the Love Triangle Trope Better Than Any Other TV Show

Love triangles- we've all seen them. They're the go-to for many writers when they want to add some romantic tension to a story. It's a trope that provides a quick and easy way to invoke drama in the plotline. And throughout the history of fiction, the love triangle trope has been executed in varying degrees of quality. And I mean a BIG variety of quality. If you ask me personally, I do not care for this trope. It's often been used cheaply, its scarcely executed the way it should be, it almost always calls for some kind of character assassination, and as of late, its just a widely overused (and misused) trope. However in recent years, there has been one (1) show that has done the love triangle trope in such a way that didn't make me want to gouge out my ear drums. And that would be a little adult animated sci-fi epic called Final Space.

Now to you readers who don't know anything about Final Space, it is a cancelled adult animated sci-fi dramedy show created by Olan Rogers for TBS and Adult Swim. The show is serialized with an ongoing story stretching three seasons, and follows the adventures of protagonist Gary Goodspeed and his crew of loveable misfits who venture across the galaxy in an attempt to save the universe from an evil cosmic horror known as Invictus. This show has all the good stuff that comes with an epic space opera: space travel, time travel, dimension hopping, planet exploration, alien encounters, and absurdly advanced fictional technology. But the heart of this show lies in the relationships amongst the main cast of characters. Throughout the series, Gary gains many new friends and allies whom he shares a deep mutual bond with and are willing to help him in his life threatening and seemingly impossible goal. Naturally, one of these characters is his love interest, Quinn Ergon, a former space captain who had a rocky start but gradually fell in love with Gary.

Now Gary and Quinn's relationship was at first one-sided. Gary fell for Quinn instantly, and decided from the moment he first met her that he would always dedicate himself to her. Quinn, who is a hardened soldier trained to always focus on the bigger picture, does not desire starting close relationships with many people due to the trauma of losing her sister during a battle. She was also put off by Gary's clinginess and apparent incompetence as a leader. However, by the end of season 1, she learns to open up to him more, and he learns to be a more reliable person to her. By the end of the season, they officially enter a romantic relationship.

Throughout the entire series run, Gary shows extreme devotion and loyalty to Quinn. Seeing as how hopelessly in love with her he is, it's pretty hard to imagine anyone else could cause their relationship to waiver. However, in the middle of the show's first season, Nightfall entered the picture. Nightfall is Quinn from an alternate timeline where her Gary had sacrificed himself for the greater good. Without her true love, Nightfall had fallen into a deep depression, until a cosmic entity named Bolo had granted her the ability to travel to other timelines. She then spends twenty years traveling to hundreds of different timelines in the hope of finding one where Gary survives, and lo and behold, that happened to be the timeline the main story is set. Although Nightfall is a variant of Quinn, the show's narrative treats them as two seperate characters. The two of them have distinctly different personalities, and differing relationships with Gary.

When Nightfall reveals herself to Gary, he is instantly attracted to her, and makes little attempt to hide it. In turn, she regularly expresses her own attraction to him. However, whenever these expressions start to get a little too physical, Gary will deny her. Telling her that he's only interested in Quinn. Although Nightfall points out that she is also Quinn, Gary rebukes that he only has eyes for his Quinn. This complication in Gary and Nightfall's relationship is brought to a head in the show's second season.

During the second season of Final Space, Quinn is trapped in another dimension, and Gary and the remaining members of his crew have to venture all across the galaxy in search of Dimensional Keys in order to make their way across dimensions and rescue her. In the episode "The First Times They Met", Nightfall once again attempts to make advances with Gary, only to be denied. Crestfallen by Gary's rejection of her, Nightfall retreats to the spaceship's 'Virtualasium', a full-scale virtual reality room that can download her memories so she can relive them in real time and replicate a digital version of the Gary she had lost.

Although the virtualasium requires all the ship's power to register Nightfall's memories, trapping her and Gary within the room and putting the whole crew at risk, Nightfall is still unwilling to let go of the love she had lost twenty years prior. It takes the pleas of the real and current Gary to disable the virtualasium, and delete the digital replica of the man she loved.

The episode concludes with Gary comforting the heartbroken Nightfall. Although Gary apologizes for hurting her, she assures him that there is no reason for him to apologize for loving someone else.

Now this. THIS RIGHT HERE. Is where so many love triangle subplots go wrong. Typically, the endgame for a love triangle is that the character recieving the romantic affection from two or more suitors has to eventually pick one, and reject the other(s), and enter a steady monogomous relationship with whomever they end up choosing. Then the character and their chosen suitor can then focus on their romantic relationship...but that still leaves the character's relationship with their rejected suitor(s) up in the air. Many different shows had tried to resolve this in a variety of ways. Sometimes the rejected suitor will remain friends with the character they loved, but the writers will often cut corners by not addressing or acknowledging the suitor's complex feelings of heartbreak while attempting to continue a friendship with the person who rejected them. Even worse, is that some stories tend to put the rejected suitors to the sidelines, having them sparingly be a part of the main character's life while they continue their relationship with the suitor they chose. Realistically, maintaining a friendship with a person you were romantically interested in that rejected you is extremely difficult, because those romantic feelings don't disappear overnight.

One other thing that love triangle plots tend to get wrong is having a character commit a detestable act that takes away any likeability for the audience. For instance, the MC may enter a romantic relationship with Suitor A, but cheat on them with Suitor B behind their back. Or Suitor A may attempt to say or do something to make Suitor B seem less desirable compared to them, be it lying or invading Suitor B's privacy to expose some secret. Or whenever MC rejects one suitor in favor of another, the rejected suitor may lash out, blame MC for their heartbreak, or try to guilt/emotionally manipulate MC into going out with them. Final Space manages to avoid all these mistakes.

After the events of "The First Times They Met", Nightfall sticks around with Gary and the main cast. The narrative makes it clear that she still has feelings for Gary, but from now on she respects his boundaries, no longer makes advances towards him, and comes to value him as a trusted friend. From here on, Nightfall has found a new motivation for staying with Gary: to reunite him with the woman he loves, so that he may not have to suffer the heartbreak she had faced when she had lost her love all those years ago. With this newfound selfless outlook that Nightfall had developed, this shows that the writers had actually found a way to use the love triangle trope to strengthen Gary's relationship with both Nightfall and Quinn, rather then hindering either relationship. It is through this romantic arc that Gary realizes that he truly does love Quinn, and his loyalty to her can never be wavered. And Nightfall learns to move on from the love she had lost and had desperately clung to for twenty years, deteriorating her mental health in the process.

In conclusion, the relationship between Gary and the suitor he rejected became stronger after they had confronted their complex feelings for one another. And the writers managed to do this without making any of the characters involved play dirty in order to invoke pointless drama. There was no lying. No cheating. No backstabbing. Just three characters ecperiencing complicated feelings that needed to be addressed in order for the air to be cleared. Other animated shows like Star vs the Forces of Evil, Unicorn: Warriors Eternal, or even *shudders* Miraculous Ladybug could learn a thing or two from Final Space. And I have yet to see any other show execute this trope in a better way.

[sugarcubetikki]

I’m going to analyse all three characters involved in the love triangle based on their personal needs and wants as well as their relationship dynamics linked to some of the themes of the show to prove that byler is the best endgame narrative.

will - his personal arc has always focused on acceptance and gaining love. his sexuality has always been a huge part of the show too and we can see how it makes him feel like he’s different, a mistake, how he’s  social outcast in a way just because he likes different things to other people and how he’s had to undergo so much homophobic bullying from school and pressures to conform mainly from his dad (a lot of his childhood trauma starts from the way Lonnie treating him and made him feel like an outcast for not liking socially normative things). a big part of his arc has always been finding people in his life who accept him for who he is and people who make him feel loved - it’s key for him to stay strong and overcome his trauma and that’s why support systems are so important for will’s character which is why he felt so isolated and heartbroken when he felt neglected in s3. his love for mike also has always been there as a layer under all his character intentions okay and it’s so deep. he loves mike to the point he’d sacrifice his own feelings for mike and el’s happiness even if it’s hurting him. also the fact that he’s thought about having a future with mike through “wanting to play d&d with him for the rest of his life” and it’s also a canonical fact that will needs mike only because he loves him too (not that el needs mike as it’s will’s truth) and that mike makes will feel better for who he is thus he makes him feel safe and that he’s always given will the strength and courage to fight on. will’s love for mike/beautiful bond with mike is beneficial for his character arc as it makes him feel safe, comfortable and accepted. when finn said, will’s love for mike is beautiful he wasn’t lying, it is beautiful. i can’t even comprehend why they’d build it up like this so much if they were only going to have will get rejected or not do byler it would be pointless buildup and focusing so much over will’s feelings towards mike and his heartache to the point they focused on will over milkvan this season is just so insane they intentionally wanted the audience to feel and root for will. if he doesn’t a happy ending, it would be dreadful and all this buildup being thrown away would be pointless especially when his love for mike/bond with mike complements with his arc so perfectly. 

el - her arc is about becoming her own person: discovering her own needs and wants, finding strength in herself to stand up to those who try to control her, ultimately it’s about el embracing her own personal freedom. it’s also about el finding a home, finding family and finding people who’ll love el for who she is and let her be herself instead (similar to will).. a lot of her relationships are the ones that line up with her arc and contribute to her character growth as her arc is focused on people loving el for who she is and enabling her to grow as a character by offering her that personal freedom. at the start, mike and el’s arcs did align and mike truly did make el feel safe and loved for the first time in her life after how much brenner controlled and abused her in the past it was refreshing for el to receive that kind of love. mike is an important person in el’s life but he’s also the first person to make el feel loved and el still had no idea what she wanted then and no idea what love was so she was entering a romantic relationship way too quickly at that point. during the time of the kiss she’s surprised and a bit confused as she is with everything she’s not wrapped her head around it she was asking him whether they were like brother and sister. as the show progresses el builds bonds with more people and so many more people are important in el’s life in addition to that milkvan’s romantic relationship is just a disaster and it’s just not working out. furthermore, it becomes clearer as the show goes on that her attachment to mike weakens as more people enter her life and when talking about mike romantically she’s very unsure about the state/the future of their relationship. when she’s with max she seems interested in the prospect of having other boyfriends/liking other boys and she calls mike her “first boyfriend” too. there’s not a sense of forever established like it is with will. it’s never been implied not even once that el can see a future with her and mike - I do think it’s largely because el’s figuring out who she is and hasn’t come to terms with that yet so seeing a future can be difficult for her but she definitely does express that desire of dating more people in the future and that she doesn’t see mike as the one for her anything like that. I mean she is a bit upset when max calls mike her ex boyfriend but I think that term just alludes to the fact she’s afraid of losing mike in general. el can see herself in other romantic relationships in the future but she’s afraid because she feels that not being in a relationship with mike means that they won’t need and love each other anymore so they’ll lose each other. she wants mike in her life and doesn’t want to lose him but at that point she was in that position where she felt like she had to be in a romantic relationship with mike for him to love and need her (same with mike) when in reality they’ll still love and need each other even if it’s not romantically they won’t lose each other. I think el realises that more this season as her arc is more about self-growth, finding love and strength from within herself. she’s definitely pulled away from mike romantically at least in my eyes she’s realising that she needs and wants him in her life but not romantically because when they’re in a romantic relationship they don’t work out. she feels like she has to live up to a standard for him and she lies to do that even though she hates it and she feels like mike’s not offering her the love she wants/needs at the start of the season (because he’s going through his own thing) so she feels unloved by him and she doesn’t tell him things because she feels like he doesn’t understand her too. el wants to be loved by mike but she won’t be in a romantic relationship with him if she’s not getting the love she wants like this. it’s better off for her to escape a relationship that’s making her unhappy and like. el loves mike but not romantically she doesn’t need him romantically and the show has established it too - them breaking up is a better move for her ac.

mike - he’s a difficult one but his arc has always been focused around his desire to be being needed. his saviour complex is his way of expressing that need and proving his worth. a lot of that seems to root from his insecurities about being unwanted as he seems to feel unworthy and not special and just like some random nerd as he put it. he loves being a nerd and loves playing d&d of course but I feel like he thinks that it’s nothing special and maybe that’s all there is to him and that he isn’t good enough for anyone thus he wants to be needed and wants to prove himself worthy. he also hates being alone and he’s afraid of losing people in his life. I think that fear has been strengthened throughout the course of the show due to traumatically losing both el and will because of the ud and therefore there’s a lot of focus around his relationships with those two mainly (as well as the love triangle aspect). like I mentioned with el, in s1/2 before they started dating their relationship worked well together and it was satisfying both their character needs/wants. when mike lost will, he was clearly having a hard time coping, and he did not want to accept that will was gone, he always had hope that will was out there somewhere and that he was going to find him. mike’s not the best with introspecting his own emotions and he doesn’t really reflect back on them he seems to be type of person who projects everything he’s feeling onto action, onto doing other things and onto other people. when el came into his life, he’d lost will, and el needed someone as mike himself put it so mike became that person el needed and was one of the first people to show her compassion and make her feel special for who she was instead of an experiment in a lab (these are mike’s words too and they’re truer than that entire monologue because they can be backed up!). the truth of the matter is mike needed el in that moment too, he needed someone to impress as Finn would put it and he just needed someone to need him because will wasn’t there anymore. will not being there is important because will has always been there for mike and will was mike’s first friend and he has always made mike feel less alone. as mike would put it, asking will to be his friend was the best thing he’s ever done. hawkins isn’t the same without will to mike even to this day as will has always made mike feel needed and loved and wanted (he’s singled out from max, lucas and dustin too). with will gone, mike had an empty hole in his heart and mike was trying to fill that in through finding will and also caring for el or impressing el. I’m not saying mike didn’t truly care for el or anything definitely not all I’m saying is that during the time of s1 el and mike needed each other for very particular reasons and it doesn’t stay true throughout the seasons. el gains her own autonomy and more people become important to her and make her feel special other than mike and mike feels distanced/disconnected from el throughout her entire journey. at the time of s4, there’s a disconnection between them because mike’s still connected to the el from s1 that needed someone back in those woods he found her in but the truth and reality of the situation is that el has grown and changed as a person so much that she’s not the same person who needs mike in that way anymore. as el grew as a person, she felt unreachable to mike (her lying in those letters about her fake glorified life didn’t help) and that’s why he feels like she doesn’t need him anymore and he’s right. his insecurities come in here about being afraid of losing her due to the fact that she doesn’t need him anymore. I think like I mentioned for el, mike believes that not being in a romantic relationship with el means that he’ll lose her entirely and they won’t love and need each other anymore when that’s simply not the case. you can see the effect that heteronormativity has on the perception of their relationship and I think that’s also the reason mike perceived their bond in s1 as romantic because if we take my reading that mike was somewhat subconsciously filling the empty hole in his heart that will left through el then he’s sorta piggybacked his romantic feelings for will onto el but he didn’t really realise he was doing that because of heteronormativity. for me it’s still unclear if he truly liked el or not I believe it’s possible that maybe he did like her like maybe it was a puppy crush as the duffers put it but I still believe his deeper romantic feelings were piggybacked. it’s funny because it could be a stretch but he’s still doing it in s4 to this day it’s just gotten clearer that monologue is just him piggybacking off of will’s coded confession. I think at this point and stage though el doesn’t need mike like that and never did and the reason why mike feels like he has to pretend around her and keep pretending is because he can’t be natural around her. their romantic relationship is full of lies, facades and superficiality is because mike can’t be natural around el, he has to pretend and he’s trying to fit a framework that he can’t fit. mike in s3 was just him trying to be a good boyfriend and failing because of how staged and unnatural it was. he was going off being a good boyfriend very logically like he was taking advice from lucas and trying to follow rulebook instead of just being himself. however that’s the problem he can’t be himself because he doesn’t love el romantically and didn’t want to confront that. since it’s not addressed in s3, that patterns of behaviour continues in s4 into the airport scene where he’s still wearing a facade and still trying to be a good boyfriend, but he’s gotten even more cold and disconnected. their fight when el points out how mike never says it and never writes it is because he can’t he just can’t because he doesn’t love her in that way. when that fight happens, he’s back at will’s side, and his relationship with will is such a contrast to how he is with el. he can open up to will and be himself around him. will is one of the only people mike is vulnerable around. will makes mike feel comfortable and safe enough to do that and we know that the feeling is mutual. the coded confession getting through to mike is important because we as an audience know that those are will’s feelings and everything he’s saying resonates with mike so so much because it’s exactly what he wants. he’s looking for it in el but he can’t find it in her because they don’t romantically love each other in ways that the other desires. they don’t speak the same love languages and hold the same romantic priorities but mike and will do. however it’s like mike thinks those are el’s feelings so he’s responding to them and feeling them during the monologue it’s another piggybacked situation here where he thinks he loves el but it’s will instead. I think throughout the course of this season or maybe the hiatus between s3 and 4 - his feelings for will have started to dawn on him (because there is no other explanation for his strange behaviour). I feel like he’s in a similar position to nancy in s2 with steve and jonathan. st*ncy and milkvan are the safe options that parallel ted and karen wheeler (arranged loveless marriage) that mike and nancy feel like they needed to conform to - they saw them as the ideal relationships they grasped onto and refused to let go of because they’re the safe options and they try to convince themselves that they do love steve/el despite knowing deep down in their hearts that they don’t they love someone else. this got very long but mike needs and loves el just not romantically but he keeps trying to convince himself he does and it always come out so unnatural because of that as he’s trying to conform to something he isn’t. in a show about embracing yourself for who you are and being social outcasts let’s say maybe he shouldn’t be in the relationship that he’s not himself in. when he’s with will, it’s the opposite, he can truly be himself around will and everything with will is so natural. will makes him feel less alone and his desire to be needed is effortless around will because he doesn’t have to live up to certain standard to appease will he doesn’t have to impress will he can just be himself around will and will would need mike in any shape or form because it’s clear that will loves him for who he is. 

in conclusion, to fit the show’s theme of defying forced conformity and loving people for who they are, byler endgame would make the most sense because mike and will can be themselves around each other, they love one and other for who they are and milkvan is also just a product of heteronormativity - an example of forced conformity and a restraint in mike and el’s arcs so them being endgame when their relationship is so unnatural would go against all the themes of the show. 

[teklarn]

𝔂𝓸𝓾'𝓻𝓮 𝓷𝓸𝓽 𝓶𝔂 𝓫𝓸𝔂𝓯𝓻𝓲𝓮𝓷𝓭 - 𝓴. 𝓫𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓰𝓸𝓾

character(s): katuski bakugou x gn!reader 

a/n : y’all this was gonna be for kirishima bc i love possessive kiri but like it works so well with bakugou. first part will be from third pov, following parts will be from second pov (reblogs are greatly appreciated !! <3)

summary: bakugou x gn!reader. they have feelings for one another but have no idea how to express them, however y/n has someone pining for their attention. 

genre: uhh idk a lil bit teeny-weeny dash of angst i guess 

warnings: mild cursing, possessive bakugou, mutual pining, jealousy, aged-up to third year, possessive y/n, love triangle (square?), implied manga spoilers but not directly stated, tiny bitta tokage slander (sorry lol), slow burn romance (like SLOWWW SLOW BURN), lowkey enemies to lovers, like a lotta tension between bakugou and y/n 

word count: 3k

UNEDITED w/ minimal or no typos. i shoved it into grammarly’s ass and prayed for the best okay 

here’s pt 2 loves <3

- - - 

y/n was used to picking and their skin, irritated at the girls fawning over bakugou. they were always on the sidelines, watching from afar, jealousy warping their heart. could these stupid girls not see that bakugou didn’t even care for their attention? 

this time it was setsuna tokage who was begging for his eyes on her. y/n assumed it started in their first year when they’d been put against one another when the classes still had a clashing rivalry. (they still did, much more tame now, however.) 

she leaned forwards, tugging on his short sleeve. bakugou’s uniform jacket was slung over one shoulder. he’d lost a lot of his angry demeanor from when he was younger, however it was easy to tell when he was pissed. it was inevitable he wasn’t going to lose his temper entirely. 

it was easy to ignore the girls—most of the time, at least. what was ticking y/n off the most was the fact that bakugou didn’t seem pissed at all. his face was neutral, almost like the perfect mirror of todoroki on a daily basis. his eyes were not fired up in his usual ‘get the hell off of me’ manner. he was relaxed. 

it didn’t seem like he reciprocated tokage’s feelings, however he wasn’t doing anything to get her off him and it was pissing y/n off to no end. 

her sensuous lips were pushed into a slight pucker as she spoke, arching her back in a manner that made it appear much more provocative than she probably intended. 

bakugou stood there, eyes flicking from her grasp on his sleeve and back up to her eyes. he didn’t say anything, didn’t move, only kept looking her up and down. not in a romantic way, of course. right? 

y/n scoffed at themselves. they swallowed the lump in their throat, shoving down the pinging envy in their chest with it. why wasn’t he reacting? 

heat rushed to y/n’s cheeks. why do i care? 

tokage was nearing his face. she didn’t have any intent to press her lips to his, which y/n was more than glad for. 

y/n had come to the conclusion they had feelings for the explosive boy weeks ago. perhaps they always had, but now that they were fully conscious of them... gosh, it was frustrating. 

“you’re staring again.” 

y/n turned to see kirishima, the only other person who knew about their feelings for bakugou. he’d lost the twinkle in his eyes after first year. he’d picked up a dominating sneer and a withering glare reserved for anyone who desired to cross his friends. everyone at UA had after what went down. it was a shock most of them survived anything. 

“so?” y/n snapped, shoving their hands away and kicking a pebble before them. kirishima and y/n continued their walk through the courtyard. 

“so it makes you look creepy.” 

“no, it doesn’t. he didn’t even notice me.” 

kirishima snapped his fingers. “partially my point here. that’s bakugou katsuki, you really think he’s going to notice you?” 

“excuse me?” 

kirishima pursed his lips, twiddling his thumbs. “i didn’t mean it like that, y/n. it’s just...well, he has so much to work for.” 

y/n raised a brow, questioning his nervous antics. 

he continued. “bakugou works hard. probably the hardest worker in UA aside from midoriya. and it’s bakugou. he doesn’t really see a point in relationships. you know that.” 

“it’s not like i’m looking for anything with him, though. gosh, kirishima, you’re acting like this is some school girl crush.” 

he tilted his head, giving y/n a look that screamed, are you really sure it’s not though? 

y/n huffed out a breath, crossing their arms. they’d already vomited up their feelings, why all of a sudden call it a crush? sure, it was a tiny crush that was no larger than the brain of a dinosaur. 

“i can swear that it isn’t, kirishima. you’re looking too deep into things,” y/n defended once again. 

the red-head held his hands up in surrender, sucking his lips in to avoid another snarky comment slipping out. 

the two looked up at the towering building that had been home to them for the past three years: Heights Alliance. 

during their second year, the teachers had settled with having the dorms set up in a way that allowed the students’ rooms to be set up in a gender-neutral fashion. they’d been able to select new dorms beside whomever they wished. rooming next to kirishima was a blast, but the only person bakugou wanted to room next to was him. 

mina had moved in next to you, and kaminari to her right, and sero right across from y/n. 

y/n had no issue being squished between a group notorious for their goofiness and ability to never take anything seriously, however (especially on weekends) they were exceptionally loud to the point they were sure China could hear the blaring music. 

friday was finally going to be over in a few hours. y/n felt a giddiness well up inside them, anticipating the weekend. it’d been a rough few days, for everyone, not just them. 

class 1A had been bombarded with assignments and pop quizzes. y/n was lucky they finished it all in class. some of the homework was finished when they’d sacrificed their precious free time to get it done, but in the end, it was worth it all. 

y/n let their bag sag down their arms as they entered Heights Alliance. 

- 

bakugou had just been asked out on a date. for the third time. first time, he’d denied. second time, he had to shove tokage off him. third time, he’d calmly accepted her offer, and she’d skipped away with more than a smile. 

she’d squeezed his bicep, gave him a wink and an unnecessary peck on the cheek that bakugou had wiped off the moment she turned her back. he was now in his bathroom and, despite her not wearing any lipstick, he was scrubbing his cheek raw so that the skin was a blotchy red. 

the date was tonight, and he found himself wanting to go, and questioning why he accepted in the first place. 

bakugou forgot about tokage the second he won that match his first year and tossed her in the cage. he only noticed her when she and her group of friends giggled and passed by. (it was mostly her chortling, but whatever.) 

he continued rubbing his cheek aggressively with a scratchy towel. he was repulsed by how he had stood there without bothering to snap at her to leave him alone for the third time. 

instead, bakugou’s mind had buffered, and if he was in a video game, he had surely glitched. he should probably just tell tokage he didn’t want to go anymore. in fact, he never wanted to go in the first place and wants to jump out his window and escape. 

it was almost comedic. the thought of him going out on a date? goodness, he wanted to throw up. 

as he continued scrubbing the cloth along his cheek, bakugou found himself more than grateful for how much his quirk made him sweat. if it wasn’t for the nitroglycerin-like substance he produced, his skin would be scratched and dried up. 

a knock sounded at his door. silence came, until the knock found its way to his ears. a set of three knocks, then five, then it was a needy banging. 

whoever was on the other side heard his audible groan and shuffling feet dragging across the floor, because they knocked a lot harder. 

he swung the door open, hinges crying out. 

bakugou’s upper lip curled in disgust. tokage twirled her hair around a finger, eyelashes sticking together with mascara. “katsuki,’ she greeted. 

his eyes narrowed on her. “don’t call me that.” 

“what should I be calling you, then? baby? or honey?” 

oh yes, bakugou wanted to vomit. what even was her name again? whatever, it didn’t matter. “lizard teeth, listen. i-” 

“lizard teeth? why would you address me like that?” 

“because i don’t know your damn name, alright? i don’t-” 

“tokage. need me to spell it out for you?” 

“no. shut up. i need to-” 

“you should remember it, because i was one of the few who got in through recommendations, remember?” 

“and yet here you are in class 1B. can you shut the hell up now?” 

“well, you’re just being shitty.” 

“why are you here, tokage.” more of a demand than a question, as bakugou’s questions always came across if he ever bothered to ask them. 

“because, for our date tonight, I need to pick up some things and I really hope you’re up for coming with me.” 

“no.” 

“please?” 

“no. stop pushing. and I don’t want to-” 

“come on, grouchy.” tokage activated her quirk, one scale slipping into his dorm and pushing him towards her. she gripped the collar of his shirt and grinned. “come with me for a short bit, and I’ll count that as our date, m’kay?” 

bakugou opened his mouth once more to protest, but tokage silenced him by pressing one slender finger to his lips. 

“I’m fully aware you don’t want to go on this date with me.” 

he relaxed, shoulders slumping. if bakugou was younger, if he was even just a little bit more stubborn as he had been before, perhaps he’d be out of this mess already, or never in it in the first place. 

tokage let her hand fall back to her side—both of them. the scale returned to her lower calf; the jet-black leggings she wore now had a perfect hole in them.

“do you think i’m dense, bakugou?” 

“then why ask me out?” bakugou felt himself leaning back. 

“because if i can get under the skin of that stupid little...what do you like to call them? stupid little extras? yeah, that stupid extra who can’t stop fluttering googly-eyes at you every minute, then i’ll be perfectly content.” 

“who the hell are you talking about?” 

“alright, so you are oblivious.” tokage took a step back and crossed her arms. “are you both unaware of how you’ve both been pining for each other’s attention? y/n, that classmate of yours.” 

“...y/n?” 

“do you know their name or do i have to describe in excruciating detail what they look like?” 

“no, no i know who you’re talking about. but you’ve got to be shitting me, alright? there’s nothing there.” 

“i’m from 1B, and if there’s something going on in 1A, monoma is going to tell us.” 

“shithead, get out of my face.” 

“you still have to go out with me.” 

“why the f-” 

“because, bakugou. if you don’t, i’ll be sure to make sure y/n knows about your feelings, whether they’re real or not.” 

“why would they care? more importantly, why would you care?” 

- 

y/n kicked their feet up and down, a lollipop in their left hand, phone in their other. kirishima was in his bathroom while y/n was playing a game on their phone. they’d stashed away a bunch of candy back in their dorm and had snatched a handful for the two of them to share while hanging out in kirishima’s. 

he was currently combing a hand through his hair, and then proceeded to rummage through his cabinets. 

kirishima emerged with his lips puckered. “want to come to the  drug mart with me?” he stuck a thumb to his door. 

“what for?” y/n didn’t take a glance away from their phone. 

“this.” he chuckled softly. when y/n looked up, kirishima had two fingers parting his hair. the roots were a jet black, just growing long enough to become the slightest bit visible. 

“you’re going to fry your hair.” they were already shoving their phone away and tossing their sucker into the trash bin. 

“it’s a monthly tradition to do this, y/n. it would be fried by now if i was bad at it,” he joked, tapping his roots once more. 

y/n laughed alongside him as they exited the room. 

-

it was late, and the lights made everything feel like it was set in a world of backrooms. when the rest of the world is sleeping, it is more than quiet, and nothing feels real―possibly in the best ways. 

kirishima scratched at his chin, staring intensely at the hair-dye boxes lined neatly on the shelf before them. 

y/n tapped their foot, not out of impatience, but because of the creep staring at them through the aisle. yes, through. 

between the boxes of hair dye and scattered makeup products, the beady eyes of setsuna tokage could be seen. she smirked when she tugged her hostage closer. 

bakugou’s height had shot up to around six feet in the past two years, so all that was visible was his chest and the black sweatshirt loosely hanging off it, however his grumbling and stream of colorful language was unmistakable. it was him. 

“you okay?” 

y/n’s head snapped to their friend. “what?” 

“you seem on edge. is something wrong?” 

“nothing. nothing is wrong.” 

“you sure? if you need to talk, i’m here.” 

“yeah, yeah, i’m okay. don’t worry.” 

“alright.” kirishima held up a box, wiggling it in one hand. “got it.” he gave y/n a toothy grin. 

“good.” y/n snatched his arm up and dragged him along. 

“woah,” kirishima released a breathy chuckle, tugging his arm back. “what’s got you in a hurry?” 

“nothing,” y/n said, shrugging. “just wanna get home.” 

gosh, kirishima knew them too well. his eyes squinted just a bit, and there was that playful grin lingering on his lips, just ghosting over his face, barely visible to anyone who didn’t know him. instead of pointing out the obvious, which was standing just a few aisles behind, kirishima decided to play around. “goodness, honey, the kids are going to be fine back home.” 

heat raced to y/n’s face. “what?” 

kirishima winked. “it’s nice that you care about them, but care about me a little, would’ya? i miss you, too,” he said a tad louder. 

this caught bakugou’s attention. his eyes clashed with y/n’s, and he didn’t look away until y/n did. even a few seconds after, y/n still felt the blaring heat of his gaze upon them.

kirishima slung an arm around his friend, enjoying their flustered image. of course, he would never even think about pushing boundaries. the thought never crossed his mind, but he knew they’d let him know if they were uncomfortable. 

when y/n looked back as kirishima led them away, bakugou’s jaw was clenched, and his eyes were alight with jealousy. 

of course, y/n didn’t notice the emotion flaring. 

tokage smirked, clutching his loose sleeve. 

y/n looked back to their friend, and kirishima flashed them another knowing smile. bakugou was getting antsy with his best friends’ hands all over y/n. well, not all over, but a tap on the shoulder was enough. 

despite the way kirishima’s face dropped, y/n swiped his arm away and wandered over to tokage a bit more angrily than intended. they glanced up to bakugou, who was reaching up to retrieve something for tokage. 

“what brings you guys here? didn’t expect to see you.” inside, y/n was screaming. gosh, their heart was angry. 

“just running errands together.” 

bakugou? going for errands? with tokage? 

“cool, cool,” y/n said, nodding. “i was doing the same with kirishima.” they paused, awkward silence filling the space. 

impatient as ever, bakugou tossed the item into tokage’s basket and clicked his tongue. 

y/n didn’t know why. why were they being so stubborn? despite their protesting thoughts and their entire body screaming to hold back, y/n wrapped their fingers around bakugou’s wrist. 

“actually, bakugou, i have something to ask you. i need your opinion on it. you’re smart, right?” y/n’s voice lifted at the end. although they couldn’t see the, what the hell are you doing face kirishima was making behind them as subtly as possible, they could definitely feel the glare burning into their back. 

“tch, of course i’m smart, shithead.” 

“good.” 

“we’re actually kind of in a rush,” tokage spat out, snappier than usual. 

“do you think i fight okay? i need someone  with a perspective like yours to know if i do.” 

“what kind of question is that, dumbass? i don’t care if you can fight well or not, just so long as i can beat the shit outta ya.” 

tokage let out a low growl. 

y/n smirked, hand still around bakugou’s wrist. “i’d like to know if i can beat you, then, so you can tell me if i’m good or not.” 

ohgoshohgoshohgosh where was this coming from? 

bakugou squinted. he leaned in closer, like he didn’t hear them. “speak up.” 

y/n knew he heard them correctly, but he got awfully close. 

feeling a little sneaky themselves, y/n ghosted their fingers over his strong jaw, tilting his head closer so they could speak clearly into his ear. “let’s train together,” y/n said, staring tokage dead in the eyes. 

it was a stupid rivalry, really. they’d both been accepted through recommendations. they’d been friends all throughout middle school, and yet when y/n made it into 1A, tokage felt it a necessity to excel at everything and rub it in their face. no way was y/n letting them get away with this. 

“i want to see how strong i am.” y/n let their voice drop just a bit. “you’re strong, right?” 

“are you taunting me?” bakugou said, voice nearly a whisper. he still hadn’t moved from leaning down and hadn’t bothered to move y/n’s fingertips from his jaw. 

“absolutely not.” y/n sent a small grin in the direction of their rival. “let’s just see who can beat who. we’ve never been against one another like this.” 

tokage huffed, tugging bakugou back. his eyes were softened when they met y/n’s, and there was simmering, small grin on his face. 

tokage, however, looked less intrigued. “he’s not your boyfriend.” 

y/n shrugged, already backing away. they spread their arms in a mockery of surrender. “he’s not yours, either.” 

[uweiy]

I'm intrigued by Love is Science? but know nothing about it. Can you give me a run down on what kind of thing to expect and who it might appeal to? Thank you!! 😁

Ooooo boi *gremlin smile* I'm glad you asked. You've entered the dragon's den, broken the dam and thus this post turned out to be a monster so I'm gonna link here another post from @accidentallyadramablog which imo gives a nice (and short) overview.

That said let's get into

Love is Science?

Summary :

Yan Fei is a the CEO of the Love is Science marriage agency, that matches people based on scientific data. Hsuan Yu, 8 years younger than her, is a promising young hairstylist who has been in love with her thoughout their entire childhood when she has only ever seen him like a little brother.

Unexpectedly they meet again. Between the way they've each built their lives and how Yong Yan Fei's ex husband still looms over Yan Fei's life, how will their relationship develop this time around ?

Now,

just reading that summary I know what you're thinking.

Indeed, if you have some experience with dramas, you might recognize some TYPICAL TYPICAL tropes – let's get them out of the way :

love triangle (though we all know who she is going to end up with don't we)

childhood friends

'noona romance'

And they are every bit as present and as trope-ey as you would expect.

However, as they say, the devil is in the details.

And particularly, in the side characters. Let me give you a quick rundown of the lot of them :

As such, we follow the stories of multiple relationships that develop parallel to one another.

The relationships

• Yan Fei/ Hsuan Yu : Not much needs to be added I think. Their storyline might be the most predictable but they are pretty sweet and heartwarming. pining for like 12 years though poor Hsuan Yu. Anyway you can enjoy it or find it boring or but you can't hate it.

• Mark/Ouwen : Noooow we're getting to it. Their dynamic is so... Refreshing and unique. Confident gay with a soft heart and dumb disaster bisexual I mean *chef kiss*👌delicious

After the disasters of their first meetings, it's a cat and dog relationship where Ouwen is the hsssssss don't touch me– cat and Mark is the golden retriever trailing after him not really realizing the rampage he's creating in Ouwen's heart. while Ouwen is like "Remind me why the FUCK I caught feelings again ?".

IDK it just has everything 'Enemies' to friends to lovers, (not actually) unrequited love, pining, sweet moments, jealousy, feelings realization, snarky banter... What more could one want.

• Cho Nai Hui / You Fu : they are. So. So sweet. Both are older and have experience, and as such they are not so naive or stupid as the youngsters. Them sharing their life experiences and going on dates like typically teenagers (in movies or TV shows anyway) would is refreshing to see and really really heartwarming.

• Liu Sheng Ying/ ??? Her ex ? : The show hinted at a wlw storyline and this arc seems to have JUST begun. Basically Sheng Ying's ex comes to Love is Science as a client and requests Sheng Ying as an advisor, while Sheng Ying still seems heartbroken over her. I can't WAIT to see how it develops.

The friendships :

Something I greatly appreciate is that both the romantic relationships AND the friendships have a great importance in the drama.

• Joanna and Yan Fei : Jo, queen Jo 👑. She's just here to gossip, get all the gossip and be the voice of reason and we love her for it. You can see how comfortable they are around each other and how they were there for each other during tough times and still are. Kudos to the actresses because I believed the characters were besties in a heartbeat.

• Hsuan Yu and Mark : they are honestly... Such polar opposites you kinda wonder how they became friends but they are and it works perfectly.

Hsuan Yu still hasn't gotten he maybe shouldn't take Mark's advice, and Mark still hasn't gotten that he, definitely should take Hsuan Yu's. It also enables to develop a more playful and mischievous side to Hsuan Yu, giving him more depth?

• Ouwen and Sheng Ying: rivalry to reluctant solidarity to friends-but-i-will-deny-it-if-asked to just friends. IT'S GREAT

I also ejoy the fact that these multiple storylines are allowed to coexist. The romantic ones, the friendships, older, younger, m/f m/m and f/f like take your pick !! And tbh a WLW storyline ?????? These are so scarce I will take anything.

The recurring themes :

The show more or less subtly touches on some topics/issues, to which the dating aspect contributes to.

A non exhaustive list would be

Divorce, and how divorced women can be viewed as failures for some reason

How successful men over 30 are sought after but successful women after 30 are somehow deemed undatable

Preconceived notions and homophobia

And beyond the topics, there's just things like... Joanna not being interested in long term relationships nor wanting to get married, reporting sexual harassment, older people going on dates.... I'm not saying it's a groundbreaking activist drama –which is not really what I was looking for– I just appreciate the fact that it is a pretty mainstream drama and that these things are there.

Mad respect if you've made it up to here ! but we're not quite done yet.

The cast and crew :

The other element that made this drama stand out for me besides the side characters is the cast.

It might be weird that such a meta thing impacts the appreciation of the show but it did, for me at least.

📣📣TMI WARNING 📣📣

For me what happened is I stumbled onto Mark and Ouwen cuts on YouTube, then somehow onto the behind the scenes. They weren't subbed at the time so I could barely understand a word of what they were saying, thus I'm not sure what but something about how the rest of the actors, the director and the crew were interacting just told me it was a show worth watching or at least checking out.

📣📣END OF TMI📣📣

The cast honestly seems to have a blast and to have, how to say it, come together really well. It seems like most of them have become genuinely friends, or despite differences in personality have truly enjoyed working with one another and with the rest of the crew, and it shows.

Where it's lacking

In my opinion the show does have some aspects where it underperforms.

As previously mentioned, the main plot is kinda tropey, furthermore, in a drama typical fashion when something is about to get resolved, immediately something else happens. Nothing unexpected from a drama though.

The pacing : Some moments of the main plot especially dragged on, so I admit I skipped through some parts.

Because I feel so strongly about all the characters though, I don't really mind the previously mentioned points. I just think it's a shame because I feel like if it had been crafted a little bit better it could have made the show go from an 8/10 good drama to an 11/10 friggin amazing drama easy.

Lastly, there is a pretty unequal time distribution so Yan Fei and Hsuan Yu do tend to occupy the most part of an episode. However some episodes are more centered on some pairings (like ep 11 that will probably have an important Mark/Ouwen part).

Overall

it's a drama that warms my heart, as simple as that. It's not that deep, it's pretty funny, the acting ranges from good to excellent and I have taken a liking to a lot of the characters, which is what I think fuels my interest for the drama.

And I feel like it managed to attract a wide range of audiences because the romances and relationships are so diverse. Whether you watch the show for its entirety or for one aspect/storyline/character is entirely up to you and I feel like the creators of the drama are aware of it as well : and you can easily find subbed compilations about each specific pairing on Settv's official YouTube channel.

Take that aspect that you like–if you find one of course–and enjoy it, that is all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What's left to say besides.... 🎉🎊 Congratulations for making it to the end of this lengthy post !

[greensaplinggrace]

What Is There To Celebrate About the Darkling? (Part 3)

1 2 3 4

His shadow powers are so badass, literally how could you not celebrate him for that alone?

Villain wears black trope REPRESENT.

The way his cloak billows dramatically in episode one before Alina enters the Fold.

The way his cloak billows in general.

His little face in the background after his and Alina’s first kiss as he tries to compose himself.

Him knocking on the table in episode five when he gets back to see Alina. My mans was so hopeful that he’d finally get to third base with the love of his life. RIP.

Large hands. Very tall.

The way he literally cannot tear his eyes away from Alina during the entire scene where Alina dresses him and they have their first kiss.

The softest looking hair I’ve ever seen. I can’t believe Alina got to run her hands through it and she still left him.

How he urgently looks around for Alina outside after she leaves in episode five, right before he confronts Baghra. He’s very frantic and panting and clearly concerned and not being subtle at all about his emotions.

Also the way he walks when he’s leaving Baghra, with his hands stuck out to the side and his fists clenching and unclenching as his form grows smaller in the distance. He looks like a tiny penguin waddling away.

Son’s evil dastardly bastard plans once again thwarted by own mother. Can you imagine living for an eternity and never being free of your parents? Fuck all that other shit, no wonder he went darkside.

“She is all that matters now, not me. She is the future. She is the one-” SIMP

His little smile before he goes to answer the door after they kiss. The way his hold on her lingers as if he can’t bear to part with her. Forehead touch. They are giggling.

The way he runs back in for another kiss. This man is so gone it’s not even funny.

He calls her to him in the books and she spends the entire time agonizing over how upset he’s going to be. The man literally just wants to ask her about her day.

Defends Alina to Baghra after he witnesses her getting harassed. Defends himself to Baghra after she treats him like shit. Love that for him.

“I made something.” / “Let me make a mark on this world before I leave it.” / “It’s my own name I’m afraid of forgetting.” / “He understood then. The Grisha lived as shadows, passing over the surface of the world, touching nothing. Forced to change their shapes and hide in corners, driven by fear as shadows were driven by the sun. No safe place. No haven.” / “There will be, he promised the darkness, words written upon his heart. I will make one.”

Him offering Alina his kvas. They drink from the same glass.

Sasha “no thoughts head empty only Alina” Morozova having to look away and calm himself when Alina licks her lips after drinking his kvas.

Literally his entire confrontation with Kaz. Absolutely hilarious. Local centuries old Black Heretic gets bested by a teenager with one (1) flash grenade.

“I never intended for it to be the blight it’s become.” - Genuine regret. A+++.

Asks Mal what Alina’s favorite flowers are and then gives them to her. Was it manipulative? Yes. Was it awful? Absolutely. Was it the funniest and smoothest shit I’ve ever seen? 100%. I laughed my ass off.

Alina: *enters the fete dressed in the black kefta* *Darkling.exe has stopped working*

This man takes one look at her lack of guards and goes: what’s more important than how beautiful the wifey looks? her safety. *protective bf mode initiated*

He admires how pretty he appears in the mirror of his room with absolutely zero shame and 100% pride. We stan a vain icon in this house💕. Also the mirror is in front of the bed?!?! 👀👀👀

His knife ring.

“You looked like you needed saving,” as fire plays across his features and he looks at Alina with an expression that makes my soul want to splinter into pieces. The implications, the pain.

Will display his complete and utter adoration for Alina in front of the entire Court including the King and Queen despite the fact that that is the worst thing he could possibly do in the political environment.

“No ordinary tracker. No ordinary girl. Orphans of Keramzin reunited. AdOrAbLe.” - How do you say you have issues without saying you have issues?

The way he eclipses Alina when he’s stepping down from the dais. The inherent romantic symbolism of the eclipse and what that means for him.

Him getting excited about the stag to the point where he’s eagerly rummaging through the maps on his table and urgently asking Mal tons of questions.

The five second delay in his thoughts as he processes that Mal isn’t cooperating. Poor guy really thought that everything was finally coming up Sasha for once.

He constantly uplifts Alina after Baghra’s emotional abuse. He constantly helps her with her self esteem and reassures her that she’s doing well and that she just needs more time.

“Yeah I don’t know what Baghra’s summoning ability is,” he said, like a liar.

Even after Baghra suggests that Alina left he doesn’t believe it. He has to hear it from Kaz after searching for ages before he finally begins to believe it.

“You smuggle Grisha out of MY PALACE!”

Titty grab during the kiss scene.

He lifts her up onto the table!!

Local whipped dark overlord gets excited that Fedyor has found Alina and has to suffer through the embarrassment of acting like a lovesick fool when he learns it’s just about Nina.

His relationship with Nikolai.

The fact that Alina’s scarf blows past him before they even meet.

The way he nods with such an understanding expression when the Conductor is lying his ass off as if he sympathizes with everything the other man is saying and isn’t secretly planning his elaborate murder.

Puppy dog eyes all the time.

Every time his smile is forced and ingenuine and he looks like he’s about to stab someone.

Every time his smile is genuine and he looks super soft and loving.

“You have no chance, ShAdoW mAn.” Literally how is he ever going to recover from this.

His hands motions when he summons. I just think they’re neat.

He kills the Conductor. Hated that guy. And he looked sexy as fuck doing it.

He hates the Druskelle, he hates the Ravkan monarchy. I can relate.

He’s NOT a bootlicker, unlike some.

Dad mode gets activated when David raises his hand. Aleksander just goes along with it like an exasperated father.

Ben Barnes nose scronch.

He begs for Luda’s life.

“Merzost feeds on us. I forbid it!” two seconds later *frantic rummaging through notes on the merzost* *reading the Forbidden Knowledge™ without any hesitation* *Immediate Disaster Occurs*

“Mom look what I made!” “Your art is atrocious and you’re no longer my son.”

His history was written by the victors. The tale of the Black Heretic is straight up propaganda by the corrupt monarchy.

Immortal old man caught in a young adult love triangle: I read your letters. Malyen “what the fuck is happening on this here day” Oretsev: ??!?!?!!! who even are you??

Aleksander admitting he needs Alina.

Darklina hand holds.

He did not have to make that episode eight hand-hold on the skiff so sensual but he did it anyways.

The way he hides under his cloak like a turtle when Jesper shoots at him.

He looks so awkward and isolated at the fete surrounded by all of those colorful nobles.

He’s always ready to murder a bitch and honestly I respect that.

Would kill for his gf.

That entire scene where he kisses Alina in the snow in the books like the most awkward motherfucker and then goes “wtf just happened?! Darkling out” before fleeing the scene of the Emotion.

He’s eternally confused by his feelings for Alina and it’s hilarious.

“Looking for trouble, and if I cannot find it I will create it.”

He’s basically just a moth attracted to a fatal light. RIP.

The way he throws open double doors like a man on a mission.

“Follow.”

He’s utterly precious and I would die for him. 🖤

[kingwuko]

Wuko in the comics

Welcome to my first post discussing Wuko in the LoK comic books!

This first post will be discussing Turf Wars- which unfortunately does not feature Wu. But there are lots of excellent Mako moments, and there are some major plot points that carry over into the next comic trilogy.

Turf Wars is the first LoK comic trilogy released after the finale. Though it was released two and half years after the finale aired, it picks up right where we left off. While the creators confirmed after the finale aired that Korrasami was canon, the last moments of the animated series were a little ambiguous (on purpose, since this was a time when queer representation was just not considered "acceptable" in children's media-it was truly the only way they could get away with it). The comics definitively remove all ambiguity. Turf Wars features multiple frames of Korra and Asami kissing, holding hands, and coming out to their friends and family. 

The overarching plot of Turf Wars is a conflict over the land upon which the new spirit portal sets. There is also conflict between rival Triad gangs, the Triple Threats and the Creeping Crystals, over turf in Republic City following the chaos of Kuvira's invasion. These two sets of turf wars overlap when a business tycoon hires the Triple Threats to secure the spirit portal for him by driving others off. The new Leader of the Triple Threats, Tokuga, is attacked by a spirit defending the portal, causing him to gain a dragon-like appearance and a new agenda-seizing control of all Republic City. In the midst of all this there is a refugee crisis, a presidential election, and Korra and Asami trying to navigate their new relationship once they return to the real world with all their responsibilities.

Notable plot points and character developments:

Korra and Asami canon is confirmed (repeatedly)-They come out to family and their friends

Business owner Wonyong Keum, who owns the land upon which the new portal sits, demands everyone vacate so he can turn it into a tourist attraction for profit-prompting Korra to enter the Avatar state to temporarily drive him away.

An unhappy spirit requests Korra closes the portal to prevent exploitation of the spirit world.

Bolin joins Mako as his rookie detective partner.

Zhu Li is running efforts to care for refugees who lost their homes during Kuvira’s attack and teams up with Asami to begin rebuilding homes for everyone displaced.

Tokuga is introduced as the leader of the Triple Threats, fighting for control of the streets with Jargala, the leader of the Creeping Crystals.

Kya reveals she is queer and gives us a history lesson on the context of LGBTQ+ history in the world.

Tokuga is attacked by the afore-mentioned spirit and his right arm and half his face become dragon-esque.

Raiko is a colossal idiot. He is way too focused on getting reelected and making his decisions based on what his campaign advisor suggests, rather than just, you know, governing his city. He calls the military to occupy the portal, prompting the Airbenders to peacefully protest.

Zhu Li runs against Raiko for the presidency. She rallies more protesters to protect the spirit portal while her husband films her for his newest project- a “docu-mover” which he presumably uses to influence the election. 

Asami and Keum are kidnapped by Tokuga and forced to make a poison gas device bring the city under Tokuga’s control.

The Krew manages to save the day of course, thanks to Asami’s wit, Korra’s unstoppable stubbornness, and back-up from Bolin and Mako. Except Mako, bless him, says he’ll “take care of Tokuga”, and then promptly loses him.

Tokuga mysteriously disappears into the spirit world.

Zhu Li wins the presidency.

Korra and Asami share a lovely, romantic moment where they exchange their first “I love you”s at the conclusion of the comic.

Mako scenes

There is no Wu in the Turf Wars comics (Unless you count one line of dialogue where it is mentioned that the Earth Kingdom is sending supplies to help the refugee situation) - however, there is plenty of Mako! Mako’s primary role in this series is as a detective trying to find and stop the Triads from waging their turf war in the city.

Our first scenes with Mako shows him back to being a detective- and his brother is his partner. He doesn’t seem super thrilled to be working with Bolin, but I think it’s just because he knows how his brother is- not that he doesn’t want to spend time with him. They are trying to track down the new leader of the triple threats and control gang activity. Mako’s arm is still in a sling, he’s got his usual brooding grumpy facial expression, and his hair is spiky again! He and Bolin arrest two-toed Ping and try to interrogate him. Two-toed Ping is weirdly proud of Mako and Bolin for rising up from being “nobodies” to a couple of “bigtime cops”.

They catch up with Korra and Asami, and the four of them are alerted by Jinora that the Triple threats are attacking the Airbenders that were meditating at the portal. Asami gets hurt in the battle and she and Korra share a kiss in front of everyone:

Look at Opal’s sweet face. She looks like she’s barely containing her excitement and is maybe squealing a bit, and she’s looking directly at Bolin which I think is a sweet moment to show their relationship. Bolin calls dibs on the first double date.

Mako probably needs time to process the information....

Mako and Bolin do some detective work to try and find Tokuga. There is an interesting scene where they are questioning Scoochy (We saw him in the first season, he’s the kid that told Korra and Mako the Bolin went to do some work for the triple threats before getting captured by equalists) Bolin tells Mako they should do “good cop, bad cop”, with Bolin being the good cop. Mako gets annoyed, and Bolin asks if he’s grumpy because his exes are dating. Mako insists he’s cool with it- though he’s got a distressed look on his face. They catch up to Scoochy and Bolin actually loses his temper and is rather menacing. Mako pulls Bolin back and genuinely connects with Scoochy- relating to his past, pushing him to do the right thing and help others. I really liked this moment because it shows how much character growth he’s had when you compare the way he treated Kai in season 3. (They are ultimately unsuccessful and Scoochy’s tip leads them to a room rigged with explosives- but I don’t think Scoochy knew that, I think he was fed false info).

There’s another touching scene, after Asami is kidnapped, where Mako notices how upset Korra seems as everyone is trying to form a plan to stop Tokuga. He steps aside to check in and see how she’s feeling. He comforts her’ empathizes with her, and reassures her that they are going to find Asami. At this point he seems to have fully processed that they are together and seems to fully accept it and is very supportive. Not easy considering the awkward position he’s in as both their exes. In this scene, Mako also informs Korra that he can’t firebend with his injured arm.

Mako and Bolin helps Korra to find Asami by requesting help from Jargala- in spite of the fact that Chief Beifong told them not to… They show up for Korra and Asami even if it means risking their jobs. They team up and fight the bad guys together, just like the old days.

We see many examples of how bad the damage is from Mako’s injury in the Colossus. He can’t bend with his left arm, it’s in a sling almost the whole comic, and he really doesn’t seem to be at the top of his game. He told Bolin he would take care of catching Tokuga, but apparently couldn’t and lost him. Mako’s injury is pretty bad and it’s probably really frustrating.

At the end, Bolin decides to quit the force (surprise. The guy loves to hop from calling to calling!). He makes a big dramatic speech to Mako, talking about how it’s time they go their separate ways. Mako is like “Um I’m going to see you at home in like two hours”, so it sounds like they are living together.

What all this might mean for Wuko

So now I’m going to try to tie things back into how all this affects the potential of Wuko- whether that’s for headcanons or fics or whatever- and just try to give you an idea of what this comic means for Wuko shippers.

Wu is governing in the Earth Kingdom right now. It is mentioned by Zhu Li that the Earth Kingdom sent supplies, so one can assume Wu has taken his place on the throne and the Earth Kingdom is in a stable enough position to be sending supplies to aid another nation. Nothing is mentioned about efforts to transform the Earth Kingdom into a democratic nation (we’ll get to that in the Ruins of the Empire comics).

Mako’s primary relationships that are explored are with his brother and with Korra. His relationship with Bolin is just as it always is. He loves his brother even if he is a little exhausted by his upbeat, enthusiastic attitude. We build up on his final interaction with Korra from the animated series and continue to firmly establish them as friends and amicable exes. Interestingly, we don’t get any meaningful Mako and Asami interactions. When he is comforting Korra, he relates to her by remembering how worried he was when Korra was kidnapped by Amon. He doesn't try to say “Yeah I’m really worried about Asami too”, which, to me is bizarre because he and Asami are friends too, right? I don’t know if we should read too much into it though- most likely it was just a writing choice that we aren’t meant to psycho-analyze- but it could also mean he is being careful with his words so that Korra doesn’t wonder if he still has feelings for Asami. The love triangle is completely resolved and Mako is out of the picture romantically with either of them and has no lingering romantic feelings. In other words, he is 100% ready available for a relationship with someone else.

The scene where Kya gives us a history lesson establishes how LGBTQ+ people are viewed in the world of LoK. In short, Korra and Asami are fully supported by their friends and family, and even their enemies acknowledge their relationship without any homophobic tones. The closest we get to homophobia is Korra's father, who, after expressing his happiness at their relationship, warns Korra to be cautious going forward because not everyone will be as understanding. Kya gives us a quick lesson on how same-gender relationships are viewed across the nations: The water tribe, being a patriarchal culture, expects discretion. The Earth Kingdom is not particularly accepting-Kya says that Avatar Kyoshi was bisexual but couldn't affect "real change" and that the earth kingdom is the slowest to accept change and is also militarily repressive (full disclosure I have not read the Kyoshi comics, maybe there is additional insight in those?). And in the fire nation, Sozin made same-gender relationships illegal when he took power (I hope Zuko undid all that when he became Firelord). The air nation is the only one that seems truly accepting-Kya paints a picture of total acceptance and says that Aang was supportive when she herself came out. Korra is worried that maybe her father was right, but Asami points out that a lot has changed over the years and everyone seems accepting, especially in Republic City. 

I think what we can take away from this as far as Wuko goes- is that in Republic City, same-gender relationships are not much of an issue, while in the Earth Kingdom it could be viewed negatively. One could make a case that Wu might have cause to be closeted, while Mako might not. (Feel free to reject this history canon and substitute your own. I’d just as soon say that no one in the avatar-verse cares if you aren’t cis or het).

In conclusion. Mako is just a guy trying very hard to be a good, supportive friend to his exes who are now dating each other. He loves them (platonically) he loves his brother, he’s kind and has matured a lot, but he still always has a grumpy look on his face so it’s time for him to move on and get together with Wu.

Well, that’s Turf Wars. I did cram the plot of three comic books into one post, so I certainly did not hit all the details. If you feel I missed something crucial, feel free to reblog with your own takes. Next I’ll discuss Ruins of the Empire, in which we get lots of Wu and potential Wuko moments, a sizable helping of angst and even some Wu & Korra friendship! RotE is a really fun comic trilogy and I’ll be breaking it down into multiple posts. Thanks for reading everyone!

Wuko In RotE part 1

Wuko in RotE part 2

[seqka711]

Ranking the six main boy/girl ships in Yu-Gi-Oh from best to worst!

Not all main girl ships are created equally, I'm afraid. Let's take a look at each ship and see what's up! (Except Sevens because as I mentioned in a previous post, I am way too far behind to comment on anything in that show.)

First up is Anzu and Yugi! And YES I do ship them! However, I don't ship Atem and Anzu. Anzu was friends with Yugi, and started to see him in a different light when Atem started showing up. However, those changing feelings also started to influence her feelings about Yugi as well. We saw that in Duelist Kingdom. Then in season 2 when she realizes they're two separate people, she gets really confused! Anzu doesn't know how to feel anymore! Then Atem and Yugi are both playing wingman for each other, so that's not helping matters. I don't really ship Atem and Anzu because Atem just doesn't seem super interested in their date. I know he had other things on his mind, but if they wanted me to ship it, now was the time to show off some chemistry and they didn't.

We saw in GX that Yugi grows up to look just like Atem and he also grows more confident over the course of the series. After the end of Duel Monsters, I think they're both too hurt by Atem's passing to be digging on each other. But, distance makes the heart grow fonder, and I feel like she's gonna come back from the states and have some heart-pounding feelings when she sees him again. And Yugi's feelings didn't change, they were just put on the back burner. So hopefully when they meet back up, sparks are gonna fly! At least, I hope so. <3

~

Next up is Asuka and Judai! When I watched their first duel, I was 100% on board with this ship. They were cute, they had great banter, it was a fair fight. I loved it! But over the course of the series, I started losing interest in their relationship, fast. By the end of season 2 I was pretty convinced they had abandoned Asuka x Judai for Asuka x Manjoume, and honestly, I was 100% on board with that, I love a good romcom couple and those two have dysfunctional romcom energy. Plus they had evil power couple vibes when they were running the Society of Light together, so I thought for sure they were gonna have Manjoume and Asuka be better friends post possession.

Then season 3 came a long and I was like "woah, they DID do that on purpose! I was right!" when we saw the Judai x Johan x Yubel love triangle they spent the entire season on. Asuka and Manjoume were of course relegated to background characters, as was everyone who wasn't a transfer student. And then the series ended with a pretty definitive Judai x Yubel ending and I was like "cool I like it".

But then season 4 made me question everything by making it clear that Asuka was still crushing on Judai?!?! Uhhh.... what? You haven't mentioned this crush in OVER TWO YEARS ASUKA. You've both changed so much! I thought the whole point was "she had a fleeting crush on him in year 1, but people change and so do our feelings"! I thought they had her fall out of love with him on purpose!! You're telling me the writers just wanted us to ASSUME she was still in love with him this whole time?!

I honestly love the whole "had a crush on him, now that I know him better, he's an amazing friend but I don't like him that way anymore" dynamic and they RUINED IT so bad. And for what? To say "well they fought the whole time, but now look! They can tag duel together!" Well, jokes on them, because a few episodes later Judai and Johan will show off some of the tightest teamwork in the show and I'll have to throw Asuka x Judai in the trash. </3`

~

Yusei x Aki!!!!!! AHHHHHH I LOVE THEM. Their first duel is very romantic in my opinion. Yusei lives to help people, and it's actually a flaw of his that he'll help people no matter the cost. Usually that's sort of a "who cares" flaw in a protagonist, but for Yusei, it adds a lot of depth to his character. The reason he helps people even at the cost of himself is because he feels enormously guilty due to his parents' involvement in Zero Reverse, and he feels like he owes the world (but especially Satellite) everything. Yusei tried to go to jail in Kiryu's stead, but failed, and I think that only compounded his guilt even more.

Then, when Yusei sees the chance to help Aki, he does it. He's scared of her, but he rallies his courage to face her so that he can help her. And it's only natural that Aki would fall hopelessly in love with him after he continually put himself at risk over and over again JUST to help her. I love the episode where she rescues him from being kidnapped and then accompanies him on a riding duel. I think it hits me harder because it reminds me of how much I want to drive a motorcycle but can't because of reasons I won't go into. But part of her desire to learn to riding duel is because she wants to feel the same things Yusei feels. And that's so cute!

Unfortunately, I do have a certain headcanon that gets in the way of my shipping desires. I won't get into the whole headcanon, but I think Yusei might have ended up time travelling back in time to fix Zero Reverse and prevent Zone's future. And Aki wouldn't have come with him because we see her in the flashforward. Yusei is still giving her strength though. And I like to think that maybe a much older Yusei was able to help a much younger Aki control her powers and not enter a cult in the new timeline. And if my headcanon isn't true, then GET MARRIED AND HAVE BABIES GUYS. <3

~

On the one hand, I love Kotori x Yuma. They’re so adorable! Not only is Kotori surprisingly self-aware of her crush (usually the YGO girls love to deny it) but Yuma clearly treats her differently from the rest of his friends, even though he doesn’t know why (yet). Kotori’s confession at the end of the show is SO CUTE AND ADORABLE and Yuma accepts and I love it!

But… I can’t love it as much as I WANT to love it. Kotori’s character, especially in Zexal II is kind of boring. I liked her a lot in Zexal I actually. I thought it was fine to have a character not duel as long as she was doing something else. In season 1 she occasionally gets shit done. Or she’s there for comic relief like when she’s riding the duel coaster. Or arguing with Orbital 7. It wasn’t much, but it was something. In season 2, she’s a total non-entity. I thought the duel where she gets possessed was very funny, but I almost wish that her getting possessed by a Barian was played for drama rather than laughs.

I think what could have been cool is either a) after she can hear Astral, her and Astral team up for a duel or b) when watching Yuma she started to memorize his strategies. Or both. Or neither, just get this girl something to do BESIDES watch Yuma! In the end, my love for how adorable these two are is always somewhat soured by Kotori’s squandered potential. <3

~

Speaking of squandered potential, Yuzu and Yuya are next on the list. I love these two A TON! I’ll be perfectly honest and admit my biases here, I am NOT the biggest fan of Arc-V. The show had a lot of problems, and I’m harsher on it than most.

But one thing I really did like about the beginning of the show was Yuzu! She was independent, driven and her dueling was getting better as the show progressed. Just like Kotori, she became a non-entity in the latter seasons. However, I ship Yuya x Yuzu more than I ship Yuma x Kotori because Yuya was always keeping Yuzu in mind during the latter seasons. So it still felt like the ship was in focus, whereas with Kotori x Yuma, the ship kind of disappeared since more important things were going on. For Yuya, nothing was more important than getting Yuzu back, so really I had no choice BUT to ship it. How could I not? It was so sweet! She was his whole world! I wish we got more scenes with the two of them together though. Them never tag dueling is a crime against humanity. Also its total BS that only Yuya and Yuzu got to come back, but whatever, I guess. I was happy that the two of them reunited and even HAPPIER that the show was finally over. <3

~

Last and basically least, Yusaku x Aoi. Or Playmaker x Blue Maiden. I’ll be honest, I don’t ship this at all. The show doesn’t go through any effort to get us invested in their so-called “relationship” and if I had watched this show on its own, unaware of the series’ tropes, I wouldn’t have assumed they were a “ship” at all. With Judai x Asuka, I actually liked the fake out (at least until S4 when I wondered whether or not the fake out was actually on purpose or if the writers are just morons) but with Yusaku x Aoi I get frustrated because it wouldn’t have been that hard to GIVE them some chemistry. They’re both interesting characters, and I think Aoi and Yusaku could have had an interesting dynamic if Aoi had learned Playmaker’s identity a lot sooner.

What I think the show should have done was have Aoi discover Playmaker and Soulburner’s identity at the same time they discovered each other. Then have Aqua come into the fold a lot earlier. Trios are popular in fiction for a reason, and I think Yusaku, Takeru and Aoi would have been an excellent trio. Specifically, with both Yusaku and Aoi being so reserved, their relationship would be very understated. But that’s not a bad thing. It just means that the writers would have to put more focus on the little things. Like, maybe after a while of being friends, Yusaku sits next to her in class. That would be a small thing for other people, but for those two, that’s huge! I could also see there being a fun episode where Ai tries to trick them into going on a date but fails spectacularly. The two of them end up spending time together to foil the plan. That could be really cute! LITERALLY ANYTHING is better than NOTHING.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I don’t ship this because the writers thought they could get me to ship it just by having boy meets girl and then having them shake hands over a hundred episodes later. And no. I refuse. I need a LITTLE more than that, please and thank you. </3

~

That was a very long post! All in all, 4/6 ain’t bad at all! Or maybe it’s more like a 3.5 since I only gave Kotori and Yuma a small heart? It doesn’t really matter, I’m a multishipper. At my heart and soul, I’ll ship anything. Like I said I don’t ship Judai and Asuka, but I totally have shippy fanart of them on my phone, lol. It’s more like… which of these ships would I defend in court and which ships do I only like because I’m trash that’ll ship anything?

Oh, I guess I did title this as a ranking... Well, I'm sure you can figure out my most and least favourites by how much I used caps lock, so it should be fine.

Give me ANY Yu-Gi-Oh ship (straight, gay or in between) and I’ll dissect it like I did these six.

[artemisdesari-blog]

Why I Find Tauriel Problematic; An Essay On My Thoughts, Feelings, And Why Ambivalence Has Turned Into Frustration and Distaste

Although I have only been back on the fanfiction horse for about two years, and what a wonderful two years those have been, my brief stint writing fanfiction for The Hobbit has shown me a great deal about the fandom, and one of those things is that Tauriel is something like Marmite. For those unfamiliar with Marmite, it is a British salty yeast extract spread that is either utterly delicious or utterly vile depending on the tastes of the one eating it. The marketing slogan for it is “You either love it or hate it”, so even the manufacturers are aware that enjoyment of their product is a very subjective thing. Tauriel seems to polarise the fandom almost as much as said yeast extract, although there is a little more mid range ambivalence towards her as well. For me, personally, I prefer to pretend that she never existed in the movies at all, something that I will get into at a later date. That ambivalence has, sadly, shifted to distaste.

It is no secret that in popular literature and culture there is a very glaring absence of strong female characters. To the extent that when your Captain Janeways, Samantha Carters, Natasha Romanovs and so on pop up they become worth commenting on. Tolkien, of course, is no saint where this is concerned. It is glaringly obvious that for every Lúthien, Galadriel, Arwen and Eowyn there are dozens of male characters who play far greater roles in the saving of the world. In fact, The Hobbit is without strong female characters entirely, being a novel completely dominated by the male Company of Thorin Oakenshield, including the title character. Considering who Tolkien is supposed to have originally written the tale for, the source myths that he referenced and prevailing attitudes of the time, it is unsurprising. In fact, that characters like Eowyn and Galadriel pop up at all, not discounting Lúthien whose romance with Beren was said to have some inspiration from Tolkien’s own marriage, is impressive all things considered. 

With that in mind, let us consider the matter of Tauriel. She was not in the book, and while I can see why the studio wanted her added to the film they later made decisions about her which sat, and still do sit, very poorly with me. Generally speaking, as a writer, I prefer to try ignoring the fact that she exists in the movies, even if I reference the movie appearances of the dwarves to avoid writing about too many bearded males with white or blue or blond hair. If I do reference her it is usually in passing and with no intention to do anything further with her other than acknowledge that she was added to the cast. Frequently, however, I get asked the questions “Will Kíli and Tauriel be forming an attachment?”. “How do you plan to handle the romance between Kíli and Tauriel given the relationship you’ve been building with X character?”, “Why do you dislike her so much?”. I’ve even been accused of disliking her from the misogynistic view point of “the evil female who corrupts the helpless males,” which is frankly offensive and not at all the case.

To the first two questions: she is not book canon, I do not need to address the so-called romance because there is nothing in Tolkien’s canon to support her existence and thus the romance. To the last question… well, that one is a little more complicated and requires an in depth examination of her introduction, actions and interactions with Kíli, as well as his personality as established over the course of the films since we have precious little to go on in the books.

First, let us look at Kíli. He is a flirt. We know that, we see him flirting with various elves during dinner in Rivendell. Beyond that, however, we see very little of his tastes or preferences, although it is probably fair to assume that he is probably something of a romantic as well. As much as he is a main character, he is still more of a background character compared to Bilbo and Thorin. It is, after all, about the hobbit of the piece. He is young, either just about to turn 77 or not long having done so and that makes him young enough that we get the impression that he and Fíli both are still of an age where it is perfectly natural to idolise their uncle and be desperate for his approval. We see that the few times he is dressed down he feels it very keenly. We also see that he is playful and open, perhaps the most playful and open of all of them except, maybe, Bofur. He is curious, perfectly capable of giving his all when it comes to a fight and Gandalf refers to him as one of Thorin’s best alongside his brother and Dwalin. 

We also see him flip from open and loving, though perhaps infatuated is a better word, to cold and murderous in a moment, so we can probably include passionate in all things in that as well.

Now, let us look at Tauriel. Unlike Kíli, we have no set age for her. We know that she is young for an elf, but the ages given range from somewhere around 600 to 1,400. There is one quote placing her at 1,347 but it is in a sea of conflicting information. Regardless, she is young, she is idealistic and curious. She has never left Mirkwood and has dedicated much of the last few decades to attempting to curb the influx of giant spiders which are spreading from Dol Guldur while arguing with Thranduil; who wants his borders kept clear but refuses to deal with the source of the threat. An attitude not unfamiliar to many of us, sadly. She has the friendship of a prince of Mirkwood but is declared not good enough for him. Also, not an uncommon attitude in those who could be thought of as nobility.

She, like any being that has literally had hundreds of years to practice, is incredibly good with her weapons and pings and flips around like the others of her kind. Given her youth and position we can conclude that she is considered unusually skilled for her age but she still has the advantage of living forever, unless she tires of life or is killed, to keep improving her skills.

Finally, let us look at the history between elves and dwarves. It is not a pretty one. They come together for the sake of occasional trade, or to face the threat of Morgoth, and later Sauron, and their armies, but otherwise they keep to themselves. The dislike is clear on both sides and occurs well before the day Smaug arrived in Erebor, during the First Age in fact. So it will be difficult for this young pair to overcome millennia of bad feeling between their people, some of whom actually remember the events that set the dislike in stone. Legolas and Gimli are later understood to be among only a very, very, few who become close enough to be considered great friends. Much of fandom would probably cheerfully have them be a great deal more given Legolas snuck his dwarf into Valinor after Aragorn’s death.

To the shoe-horned in romance, and I do mean that in the literal sense. Evangeline Lily has been heard in interviews to say that she was wary about the fan reception of Tauriel from the start and that she signed on under the explicit understanding that there would be no romance or love triangle. And at the end of the initial shoot there was not. When they came back for studio shoots and reshoots, however, she was presented with a list of scenes that had been added and some that needed to be reshot to accommodate, you guessed it, a love triangle. She was signed in, she had taken the money, done the work and was boxed into a corner. The love triangle went in and it became the part of the films that polarises the fans the most. Besides, if we want to ship something, we do not need to have it spoon fed to us. Bagginshield is the most popular ship in the fandom and we only get the odd hint towards it here and there. Then look at the multitude of other ships. We did not need to be given something we can make up for ourselves.

That out of the way, let us look at their meeting:

The Company is beset by giant spiders, destined to be dinner, confused and disorientated and more than a little desperate, weakened due to lack of food and the weird miasma of Mirkwood which has been playing havoc with their minds. None of them are in good shape but, as they do, they fight on anyway. They need to survive and reach the mountain so that they can take back their home. Enter the elves, arrows whistling, blades crunching into thick spider exoskeletons, performing all manner of acrobatic leaps and twists to avoid getting bitten or killed. It is impressive, eye-catching even to the older dwarves, and would likely be even more so to a pair of young dwarves like Fíli and Kíli. We do not see Fíli’s reaction, he is too busy frantically looking for his missing brother who has been cornered by a spider. 

Enter Tauriel, who refuses to give him a knife to defend himself with and help her deal with the stragglers because she believes he may well be an enemy. She is, in fact, somewhat derogatory towards him. I would not say that Kíli is charmed, although he is certainly impressed, because were he charmed I do not believe he would have such a massively discontent expression on his face as she takes him back to the others. I suspect that, much like in Rivendell, he would have put more effort into turning on the charm. 

As the dwarves are led away, we get the first indication that Tauriel has noticed him; she comments that he is not entirely unattractive for a dwarf due to his lack of beard and the fact that he is tall for one of their kind. Legolas is unimpressed, but we expect that.

Once they reach the cells we see the dwarves desperately attempting to avoid being locked up. Most of them are attempting to force their way free, Fíli appears to be in the process of having yet more knives removed from his person while he huffs and sulks, and Kíli is watching as he is taken to a cell of his own. A solitary one at that. Fíli and Kíli, it could be argued, are a little bit co-dependant. Not horrendously, but they have been watching out for one another over all the rest from the start, they are brothers after all, and in the life of a dwarf five years is not all that much of an age gap. So we can assume that Kíli does not really want to be locked up on his own, he is a social person regardless it would seem and I suspect that being alone would be a special kind of torture for him. He tries stalling. 

“Aren’t you going to check me? I could have anything down my trousers.”

I’ll give Tauriel this, she is quick witted and this is possibly one of my favourite exchanges of the films. Her reply; “Or nothing” is cool, a little bit cutting and gives no indication of any sort of interest at all. If anything, she seems a little exasperated with all the fuss the lot of them are creating and she simply wants to be done with it. Away Kíli goes and off she goes to report to her king.

Who proceeds to compliment her on her good handling of things so far, order her to make it better faster, reject her proposal for exterminating the source rather than simply dealing with the fallout and then tell her that no matter what else she has done, she is not good enough for his son. Oof. She hesitates before replying, stumbles her way through a response and seems genuinely upset about it. Regardless of whether her feelings for Legolas are of friendship or if she had been hoping for a little more as well, being told something like that had to hurt.

We next see Tauriel patrolling the cells. Some of the dwarves are making noise, most seem pretty resigned, Kíli is fiddling with his promise stone. Which he promptly drops and loses through the bars, only for it to be stopped by Tauriel who demands to know what it is. As you do. Kíli, as you do, replies that it is a curse stone and any who is not a dwarf who looks upon it will suffer greatly. I forget the exact quote, I could look it up but I’m not feeling quite that dedicated to making my point here. Tauriel hesitates. I will not say that she is alarmed, she seems to take his words with a pinch of salt, but she is definitely wary and we have to remember that she is a very young elf who has spent all of her life in Mirkwood. She has not interacted with dwarves, has no reason to have done so and so she has no idea if what he is saying is true or not. And we have no idea how many of the old stories about elves and dwarves she has heard, although we know it is enough for her to have a generally low opinion of them. Her hesitation is enough to cause Kíli to come clean, perhaps fearing that she will take this precious memento of his mother from him. You can see the moment that Tauriel decides to return it, the flicker of surprise that a dwarf would mention a parent with such apparent fondness and it makes me wonder what stories she has been told about dwarves and their emotions. Regardless, she gives it back and the two begin a conversation which starts with Kíli’s opinion on starlight and moves on to become centred around Kíli’s travels. 

It is a good, safe, sensible conversation which would ring no alarm bells. In fact, the only thing that hints towards the idea that we should be looking for a romantic angle is the shot of Legolas looking down upon them with a disgusted sneer. 

This is where I began to feel uneasy with the direction the story was taking. Legolas is clearly jealous, Tauriel has clearly been hurt by the callous words of Thranduil and there was, perhaps, a little bit of flirting going on between the bars. This is Kíli after all. One thing we forget, however, is that she is his jailor. She is in a position of significant power over him. Let us flip the genders. The one behind bars is female, the one who holds the keys and is showing a marked interest in her is male. This is a familiar trope, and one which many of us shudder back from due to the power divide and the vulnerability of the female character, no matter how kind the male one seems. Why, then, do so many of us ignore the reverse scenario? Why is it alright for a woman, or elleth, in a position of power over a male, and especially a young one who might well be looking for a way out and a way to keep his friends and family safe, to pay such marked attention to a male captive?

The answer, of course, is that it is very much not alright, but we let it slide because it is not the reverse and society seems to have this thing for women in power seducing helpless males.

So, they have got their flirt on, spent an unspecified length of time languishing in the cells and now it is time to escape. The book would have us believe that they spent a month or so in the cells and rode their barrels out with relative ease. No gates, orcs, arrows or chases through the rapids. I can understand the movies needing something a little more dramatic. It would have been a dull escape otherwise, but we can already see the shift in Tauriel when the dwarves escape, even though she has known them at most a month, and the film makes it seem like they have only been in there a day or two which is what makes her actions later make even less sense than they would had she known Kíli a month. She hesitates. Her prisoners have escaped, her king is going to be very displeased, and still she hesitates.

I refuse to get into the thing with the morgul arrow, I find it very hard to believe that Sauron would have allowed the use of those and thus tipped others who were not Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel and Elrond off to the fact that he was on the move. I am not even entirely sure they were a thing in book canon which is neither here nor there. It is believable that Kíli would have been hurt, that is a risk in every combat situation, and I will leave it at that.

The dwarves escape and head to Lake Town with Kíli in increasingly poor shape, Tauriel and Legolas take an orc to Thranduil for questioning which results in the elf king ordering the gates sealed. He wants nothing to do with whatever quarrel is between the orcs and dwarves. I hardly blame him. Legolas and Tauriel both object at different times and get shut down, and Legolas goes to obey his father’s orders, only to realise that Tauriel has already run off after this bloke she hardly knows.

I love Kíli, I do, but at this point he holds about as much of a permanent place in her life as the bloke I started to play Dungeons and Dragons with three months ago does in mine. And she probably knows him about as well as I do that guy.

She is idealistic, young, desperate to see the world. I get that. It is as good a reason as any to want to go out there and save it given that she is, to borrow from Guardians of the Galaxy, one of the idiots who lives in it. But saving the world, or that corner of it, was not what set her off in Thranduil’s throne room. Being told that Kíli was going to die slowly and painfully was. As much as the scene argues that she is going out there to save the world because she believes that they have a responsibility to do so, she has also already shown that Kíli is one of her primary reasons.

Four years ago, my then four year old, looked at this whole mess and said “But Elsa says you can’t marry a man you just met”. Where she got the idea Tauriel wanted to marry Kíli, I do not know, but that observation stuck with me. 

Anyway, because this is getting rambling, stuff happens, the dwarves have a feast, Kíli gets left in Lake Town with Fíli while the rest go on to Erebor and Tauriel fights her way into Bard’s in time to get some athelas to heal Kíli, although not without a little bit of dithering about before hand as she tries to work out what, if anything, she can do to help him. It is not the first time we see the calm, collected and confident character we were introduced to take a backseat before she pulls herself together but it is quite prominent. Kíli, while being healed, spouts off some romantic gibberish about him and Tauriel being worlds apart from one another and wondering if she could have loved him. 

It is very sweet. It is also delirious ramblings. I have said some things while feverish and sick that have had my Significant Other raising his eyebrows at me. It is not meant to be taken really seriously. For all we know, five minutes before he might have proposed marriage to Óin or been hallucinating a fight with Smaug. It is sweet and romantic, as we might believe Kíli to be, but can it be considered a true declaration?

Incidentally, this part is one of the changes that makes me really quite angry. Fíli and Kíli were always supposed to be at Thorin’s side when they entered Erebor. He leaves Kíli, and therefore Fíli, behind with barely a twitch, and callously does so after making him struggle his way to the dock and the waiting boat in front of the population of Lake Town who are waiting to see them off. It raises questions about whether the gold obsession that plagues the line of Durin had already started to set in, but I think it was a decision made to give a greater sense of peril to the scenes in Lake Town when Smaug is razing the place. 

Either way, I do not like it. 

The morning after the night before dawns, Kíli seems none the worse for wear after his near brush with death, though we know that Frodo was heavily weakened after his own such encounter in sixty/eighty years, depending on if you book or film timeline it. He is saying goodbye to Tauriel and effectively tells her he loves her by calling her “amrâlimê” which most of us here know means something to the effect of “my love”. Watch Fíli behind him, rolling his eyes and shaking his head as though this is not the first time he has seen his brother act like this. Fíli is the Darcy to Kíli’s Bingley, except maybe this time it really is not love at all and Fíli is right to be wary and frustrated. It is also the time we see Kíli go from adoring puppy to murder hound in about 0.6 seconds with the arrival of Legolas. This time he is clearly infatuated, but I would still hesitate to say “in love” for a couple of reasons. The first is that they really hardly know each other, and while love at first sight is a wonderful idea it is not necessarily the strongest foundation for a relationship. Especially one with such incredibly strong Romeo and Juliet vibes. The second is that she has saved his life twice at this point. It is a known phenomenon that when someone does such a thing gratitude can be mistaken for powerful love.

In fact, Aidan and Evangeline have both reported to have said that had Kíli survived the pair of them would have very rapidly recognised that this is not love at all. It is gratitude and infatuation and not something which could withstand the judgement of both of their peoples.

Here, they separate, and neither mentions the other at all. Tauriel is cast out of Mirkwood, Legolas vows he will not return without her which is a whole other host of problems on its own, and they go forth to Gundabad to see what the orcs are up to. 

It is bad news, but then these things usually are.

Things go horribly wrong in Erebor, words and Arkenstones are exchanged, hobbits are nearly flung from very high places and battle commences while Dwalin attempts to knock some sense into a gold consumed Thorin. You can see why Kíli will not have had time to think about Tauriel at all.

With the battle joined, it is fight or die. Kíli is unaware that Tauriel is anywhere on the field, or that there is a trap waiting for him in that bloody tower and Tauriel… well she panics. Seeing that Thranduil is intending on withdrawing for the good of his people she stands before him and pulls a weapon on her king demanding that he stay and fight and help the dwarves. If not for the fact that Legolas comes and takes her toward Ravenhill I think Thranduil probably would have crossed a line into kinslaying right there and then. There is only so much disobedience and, frankly, treason one can endure from a subject before something more permanent needs to be done about them.

They get to the tower, Fíli is already dead and Kíli is desperately trying to hold his own against an ambush so that he can avenge his brother. And Tauriel, for some unfathomable reason, races through a tower full of orcs screaming his name. That… that is not how you do these things. At all. By doing that you draw the attention of every creature that is currently free to track you down and kill you. 

Moving on.

Watch them fight against Bolg together. They do not do it well. Kíli is fabulous next to Fíli, and probably Thorin and Dwalin and any other dwarf for that matter. He probably would not do too badly with one of the Men beside him but the elvish style of combat and the dwarf style are very different and it does not mesh well for these two who barely really know each other. Legolas and Gimli fight in many of the same battles, but rarely side by side and they are certainly more in tune with one another than these two are. In this case, Tauriel is definitely panicking and I wonder if she would have done the same if it had been Legolas she was fighting with. 

Somehow I doubt it.

Anyway, eventually they are overwhelmed, longing looks are exchanged and Kíli is killed. Tauriel breaks down to Thranduil who declares that it was clearly real love.

I just, there is so much wrong with this I hardly know where to start. 

A lot of time is dedicated to this addition. It drives a wedge between Thranduil and Legolas that we had no reason to suspect existed, it deprives him of one of his loyal guards and it does absolutely nothing at all to affect the outcome of the quest for Erebor in a positive way. It adds nothing to Kili’s death, it does not make it any more of a tragedy than it is in the book. In fact, if anything I think it takes away from it a little bit. For those not in the know, in the book Thorin is felled on the field, fatally wounded by Bolg who is then crushed to death by Beorn. Fíli and Kíli, who do not wish to see their uncle’s body taken and desecrated, and likely hoping that there was some small chance he could be saved, fight over him as guards until they are overwhelmed and die side by side before help can come. It is, ultimately, a terrible waste of their lives. Thorin lives long enough to apologise to Bilbo in one of the healing tents, much as he does on the side of the mountain in the film, and then he dies. 

So Tauriel has made no positive impact upon the outcome, it could be argued that her moment of hesitating to threaten Thranduil could have been the moments where she and Legolas might have reached the tower fast enough to save possibly Kíli, perhaps even Fíli, we will never know. What we do know is that the addition of the love triangle added extra time which could have been given to any of the rest of the Company, most of whom were given very little at all to do other than carry on in the background. We could have spent more time with Bilbo, who got shunted aside for the Legend of Legolas parts and, of course, the love triangle additions. We did not even get the funeral in the theatrical release!

It seemed to primarily be, well, filler. And the studio’s bizarre opinion that they were not going to get female viewers if they did not stick some form of romance in there. It seemed to almost be an attempt to mirror the Arwen, Aragorn, Eowyn triangle from the Lord of the Rings, except they missed the mark there spectacularly. Arwen knew very well what she was giving up in marrying Aragorn, and she ultimately made the same choice that her uncle had made thousands of years before as had her very nearly ultimate grandmother (bar Melian) before that. Tauriel could have had no concept at all of what she might have been tying herself to. And that does not even get into the political ramifications of it had Kíli survived, or if he and any one or both of Fíli and Thorin survived. 

This next is, of course, speculation, because we have no real way of knowing. 

Tauriel has sacrificed everything, her home and position for some dwarf she hardly knew. They think it is love, but in the coming weeks with Kíli dedicated to the mountain, whether alone as king or with his uncle and/or brother, distance begins to grow. Tauriel is an elf, she may have fought in the battle but she is still not completely trusted. Rumours from those who might have seen her interaction with Thranduil during the battle start to surface. Kíli might overlook them for himself, but could Thorin or Fíli? If they were to send Kíli to do something that Tauriel would not like, could they trust her not to do the same to them as she did to Thranduil? She owes them even less loyalty than she did him and she threw it all to one side in a heartbeat. If Kíli is the only one of the younger two who survived, where does that leave the succession? If he and Tauriel cannot have children together the throne is not secure, even if they could with all the millennia of bad blood between elf and dwarf will the general populace really accept a half elf on the throne? Especially one who might live forever. The answer there is very likely to be no, which will cause more problems further on and puts Dáin and later Thorin III Stonehelm on the throne again. So there was no point saving Kíli if the original timeline would come to pass anyway, if with a few more hurdles and a heap more unrest thrown in. In other words, it would cause a lot more contention than it would solve.

If they did grow apart, as the actors have stated they would, I think Tauriel would have come to resent Kíli for his role in her decisions, even though she was a grown elleth and perfectly capable of reasoning out possible consequences for herself. Evangeline says that Tauriel went back to Mirkwood after the battle and I suspect Thranduil forgave her out of pity and because he knew she had learnt a terrible lesson. I doubt, though, that she ever regained his trust, and I very much doubt she ever rose to any real position within the kingdom again. If Kíli had not died, I suspect her reception would have been less forgiving and more in the nature of “well if it isn’t the consequences of your actions” before being thrown from her home in disgrace.

Either ending is unhappy for her.

This whole diatribe actually makes it sound like I quite like the character, and there are some small parts of her that I do like. The film needed a strong female character, and this is perhaps one of the reasons that one of the more popular genderbends in the fandom is female Bilbo. Because either way, the story still works. And all the initial stuff with Tauriel worked. Her early interactions with Kíli, that snappy comeback which is actually a favourite because as a response to someone intending on unsettling her it is perfect, even that little bit of wanderlust that she lets seep out. Where it falls apart, and where my dislike stems, is the introduction of the love triangle, the huge power imbalance between them when it begins in the dungeons of Mirkwood, the fact that gratitude and love are allowed to blur over the line with no one questioning it. Except, perhaps, Fíli, who is the long suffering older sibling accustomed to his brother becoming infatuated with this or that pretty face or great warrior.

Had it been left at the wanderlust and the whole bit with the delirious confession been done away with, she could have still been great. Had she kept her head a bit better upon seeing Kíli fighting Bolg or even had a material effect on things for good I could possibly, possibly have overlooked how it all began. But that moment in the cells set my squick metre off and coloured my opinion of it from there. And even repeat watching has not helped me to see it in a positive light. It was filler, time wasting, and I find it hard to like a character who was introduced as someone that girls could look up to, and who became, instead, every cliché female love interest that I feared she would. They set her up, let her and us down, and as a result I prefer to pretend she never existed, or gloss over her entirely. 

And because people are always asking me what my problem with her is I’ve grown to despise her. 

Kíli is a grown dwarf, he is perfectly capable of making his own decisions and thinking for himself. Tauriel does not manipulate him into having feelings for her, she seems to be made uncomfortable by the confession in fact, but just as he is capable of thinking for himself, so is she. And I question every decision she made from the moment she locked him behind those bars, because that is where the Tauriel that Kíli met in the spider’s nest begins to vanish. 

She could have been a great character and she did not need a love interest, or to become one, for that to happen. The studio handled her poorly, and that is why I would prefer to ignore the fact that she, and that stupid love triangle, ever existed.

[tothebookishatheart]

When Calls the Heart: Season 8 Triangle Analysis (With A Bookish Lens)

The In-Love Experience vs. Real Love

        In Gary Chapman’s book, The 5 Love Languages, he identifies how a romantic relationship can change after a couple gets married. Love is essential to any romantic relationship, but Chapman makes a distinction between two types of love a person might feel in a relationship. There’s the “in-love experience,” and then there’s real, true love (p. 36). Although Chapman illustrates how both of these types of love can be experienced in the same relationship, I think Elizabeth’s romantic relationships with Lucas and Nathan each embody one of these types of loves specifically; as a result, one relationship is truly the foil to the other.

 The In-Love Experience:

          In Chapman’s book, the in-love experience is described as “a temporary emotional high” (p. 41). It is idealistic, euphoric, and is separated from reality. Viewers witness all three of these aspects between Elizabeth and Lucas in their dates and interactions.

          On their picnic date in episode 6, there’s a clear example of how the idealism of the in-love experience affects Lucas and Elizabeth’s relationship. During the episode, Lucas says, “Well, since our first date did not go as planned, I thought I need to try to make it up to her.” As a reminder, Lucas and Elizabeth’s first date was moved to Elizabeth’s backyard to stay close to Little Jack because he was missing her. Still, their first date had no shortage of romance (objectively speaking) with candles, compliments, a nice meal, and both admitting to a sense of happiness. They were also able to dismiss reality and be in the moment when Lucas made mention of Gustave coming to pick up their dishes the next day.

         For all intents and purposes, their first date was ideal, but, according to Lucas’s own words, it was something that required a redo. It wasn’t perfect. Why not? The only thing that prevented it from “going as planned” was the intrusion of reality, i.e., accommodating Little Jack’s needs and moving the location of their date. Now, I’m not pointing this out to imply Lucas is anti-Little Jack, but to say Lucas and Elizabeth are more in pursuit of the “temporary emotional high” of the in-love experience, not real love. When people are in that state, they are happy and content to be caught up in the romance of love – and, subsequently, there is a disassociation from reality.  

          Another example of the in-love experience is in episode 8, when Lucas is accused by Christopher of being responsible for Henry’s health scare and Elizabeth goes to his office to comfort him. In that instance, Elizabeth offers to stay so they can talk, but instead of talking they prioritize the euphoric feeling of physical touch with close proximity and a kiss on the hand. Again, Elizabeth and Lucas deflect reality by not discussing their thoughts and sharing their concerns on a serious matter.

            Furthermore, in episode 9, when reality finally enters their relationship, they still manage to avoid in-depth conversation. In this episode, Lucas and Elizabeth discuss Nathan’s Fort Clay revelation and Elizabeth’s reaction to Nathan’s second profession of love. In each scenario, one of them is emotionally impacted. However, they only talk about what happened, they don’t process their feelings together. In fact, they both prefer to do so individually. A similar occurrence happens in episode 7, when Lucas quotes “Every man has his secret sorrows which the world knows not.” Again, Lucas and Elizabeth talk about discussing and sharing secret sorrows, but they never actually share their secret sorrows. Alternatively, the quote signifies the start to them showing a physical display of affection.

          Truly, in the height of their relationship, Lucas and Elizabeth value and pursue the euphoric feelings associated with romance. Now, the in-love experience isn’t bad, it just doesn’t last. Basically, its emphasis is on feelings. But that’s not real love. True love. So, what is the difference between the two?

 Real Love:

            In episode 2, a heavy dose of reality enters Elizabeth and Nathan’s relationship when Elizabeth tells Nathan, “You want more than I can give you. It would just hurt too much if I lost you the way I lost Jack.” Later, in the conversation, Nathan professes his love for Elizabeth – and, in response, she runs away. I’m recapping all of this to say that reality is actually an essential element in maturing a relationship into real love. Reality needs to be acknowledged, accepted and worked through for true love to ever be attained. This is why Chapman describes real love as “a love that unites reason and emotion… (it) requires effort and energy. It is intentional and it is a choice” (p. 41-42).

            In episode 9, Nathan’s intentionality is on full display when he talks to Elizabeth about why he didn’t tell her about Fort Clay and his connection to Jack sooner. During the conversation, Nathan says, “When I found myself…when I found myself falling in love with you, I felt like I was betraying Jack and his memory.” In this sentence, Nathan pauses before repeating himself and declaring his love for Elizabeth again – and I find this very telling. In this pause alone, Nathan is making a choice. He’s been here before and the memory of professing his love only to be met with rejection is very real and present in his mind. Yet Nathan willingly makes himself vulnerable to her again. He makes a choice to love her and make his love known to her – even being aware that rejection could be waiting on the other side.

           Nathan continues, “I fell in love with you, and I think love is always worth fighting for.” Again, Nathan’s words emulate the true meaning of real love by Chapman’s definition. The first part of this sentence shows his emotion, but the second part emphasizes his choice. Nathan is choosing to love Elizabeth through everything - in spite of the less-than-ideal circumstances, his hurt and rejection. He’s not giving up on her and this commitment “requires effort and energy” (p. 42).

           Additionally, in Chapman’s book, real love is also described as something that “involves an act of will and requires discipline, and it recognizes the need for personal growth” (p. 41). This is amazingly reflected in episode 6, when Nathan has his “I’m not giving up” speech with Carson, in reference to Elizabeth. This is the point in the season where Nathan decides to pursue real, true love with Elizabeth. This is a choice that can only be made in the aftermath of reality. As Chapman puts it, “true love cannot begin until the in-love experience has run its course” (p. 42). (Yes, Nathan and Elizabeth have their own in-love experience, but more on this later.) From this point moving forward, Nathan has the resolve not to give up on Elizabeth, the discipline to persevere despite all the obstacles and external factors that try to push them apart, and a recognition that for their relationship to truly succeed, he has to be more open and vulnerable with her so she can truly know him. Nathan literally checks every single box, proving that his love for Elizabeth has matured into something deeper than it was before.

         This insight into real love, references back to episode 1, when Lee profoundly says, “Love isn’t just a feeling or an emotion. It’s a choice.” I believe this truly is the theme for Nathan and Elizabeth’s relationship as we see Nathan pressing forward into real, true love. But the question arises, what about Elizabeth? Where does she emotionally stand, now and moving forward? To fully answer that question and understand the dynamics at play in Elizabeth and Nathan’s relationship, we have to start at the beginning of their relationship.

 Elizabeth’s Struggle to Accept Real Love

           As I mentioned earlier in this article, Chapman states the in-love experience and real love can generally occur in the same relationship – it’s just a matter of maturing from one to the other when reality enters the relationship. This means Nathan and Elizabeth had their own in-love experience when they were falling in love. And yes, they fell in love in season 6 and 7. It might look differently from Elizabeth and Lucas’s in-love experience, but they definitely did fall in love. With every sincere compliment, word of encouragement, gift from the heart, show of support, moment of vulnerability, and deep conversation – they have fallen in love. And no, they did not need a single date to do it.

          I’m insistent on this because of Elizabeth’s reaction when reality comes into their relationship. In season 7 episode 10, the town is on high alert when a Mountie has been shot and it’s immediately presumed that it was Nathan who was killed. Elizabeth is distraught until she sees Nathan walking towards her – and overcome with emotion, with love, she runs to him and embraces him. This is the moment when Elizabeth realizes she loves Nathan; this is also the moment when reality first pushes into their relationship and Elizabeth’s fear is first realized.

          Logically, Elizabeth knew that Nathan was a Mountie, but it had never hindered their relationship before now. Until this moment, her focus was on her feelings for Nathan, wanting to be near him, and wanting him to be in her life. But when reality presses in, things get personal. Suddenly, Elizabeth is aware that she could lose Nathan, just like she lost Jack, and then have to endure the pain, grief and heartbreak of losing someone she loves all over again.

          In answer to this, her solution is simple: avoid her feelings. In season 8 episode 1, Elizabeth admits to this in her journal entry in the beginning of the episode. However, the more present Nathan is in her life and the more intentional he is in pursuing a relationship with her, the more evident it becomes to her that she needs to distance herself from him entirely. That’s why in episode 2, Elizabeth doesn’t want to discuss her decision with Nathan or engage with him emotionally, even if she can’t deny feeling the same way he does. She really just wants to leave and not process her feelings more than she already has.

        From this point, Elizabeth makes a very interesting choice. She doesn’t press into real love, like Nathan decides to do. Instead, Elizabeth emotionally regresses; she seeks out the “temporary emotional high” of the in-love experience with another man, Lucas. Now, there are two reasons why I’m defining the in-love experience between Lucas and Elizabeth as a temporary romance and not them falling in love.

         Firstly, Elizabeth’s feelings for Nathan never change. In his book, Chapman is clear that reality enters every romantic relationship, but sometimes instead of doing “the hard work of learning to love each other without the euphoria” couples “fall out of love” leading them to “withdraw, separate, divorce, and set off in search of a new in-love experience” (p. 41-42). It’s true, Elizabeth and Nathan separate from each other in episode 2 and Elizabeth starts a “new in-love experience” with Lucas in episode 4, but Elizabeth never falls out of love with Nathan. In episode 9, when Nathan tells her he loves her again, Elizabeth doesn’t respond – she just leaves, like in episode 2. But the second time Nathan professes his love, things have most certainly changed. Elizabeth is in a relationship with Lucas; they’ve been on dates, picnics and have been holding hands. If her feelings for Nathan have changed and she was now in love with Lucas, this would have been the time to say so. Instead, Elizabeth flees from Nathan just like in episode 2, and the strongest emotion motivating Elizabeth to run away in that conversation was her fear. Fear to love Nathan. Fear to lose Nathan. And, even 7 episodes later, her feelings have not changed. This fact cannot be minimized and this information even displeases Lucas when Elizabeth recalls the event to him in the same episode. It’s very telling.

          Secondly, Elizabeth never truly confronts reality. At the end of episode 2, when Elizabeth flees from Nathan, she is obviously emotionally distressed and, at the very least, she needs to give herself time to process her feelings. However, Elizabeth decides to pursue a romantic relationship with Lucas a relatively short time after. The timing suggests Elizabeth never really processed her feelings for Nathan, her fears, and residual grief over losing Jack. Instead, it implies that Elizabeth’s relationship with Lucas is a band-aid solution to avoid her feelings for Nathan.

         Additionally, Elizabeth’s fight with Rosemary in episode 9 makes it clear these things were not properly addressed. In her fight with Rosemary, Elizabeth says, “I never asked him to be noble. I never asked him to fall in love with me.” Now, it’s true the Fort Clay revelation stirred up Elizabeth’s grief over losing Jack prematurely, but it’s evident that Elizabeth is taking Nathan’s words personally. She’s defensive and bitter. She tries to blame Rosemary for encouraging Nathan because she’s terrified of her own feelings and Nathan’s feelings for her. In this conversation, all of the issues Elizabeth has put on the back burner are suddenly pushed to forefront and because she never properly addressed her feelings, Elizabeth’s instinctive response is to lash out.

           Moving forward from this point, Elizabeth has to process her feelings, decide to accept real love and choose to love Nathan in return. It’s clear her solution isn’t working. She’s hurting herself and those around her – and things can’t keep going on like this. But this is When Calls the Heart. Eventually, Elizabeth will follow her heart, pursue real love and “be with the person she’s meant to be with.”

 Cited Sources:

Chapman, Gary. The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love that Lasts. Northfield Publishing, 2015.

[dahlia-coccinea]

I reread Patsy Stoneman’s essay, “Catherine Earnshaw's Journey to Her Home among the Dead: Fresh Thoughts on Wuthering Heights and 'Epipsychidion,” and my feelings towards it pretty similar to how I feel about J. Hillis Miller’s essays. I enjoyed reading it but I don’t agree with 85% of it. I haven’t reread any of Miller’s takes (since there are a plethora of metaphysical interpretations it would be so repetitive) and that probably allows for me to still appreciate his essays as much as I do...I think rereading Stoneman’s essay was a bad idea because reading it a second time made it much less enjoyable and I read it much more critically.

There are a lot of similarities between the metaphysical and Romantic love narratives, and they also share a lot of the same failings. They tend to be very selective about what scenes are analyzed and they aren’t put into a larger context, and they tend to be the most poetic scenes. Typically these arguments cannot place the meaning of the 2nd generation into the context of the novel either. I’ve already said quite a bit about the metaphysical arguments, so I’m going to try and discuss just the points in this specific essay. Sorry parts may be a little repetitive because critics often bring up the same quotes and ideas again and again. And this will be very long.

First, Stoneman identifies that there are two popular theories about Catherine and Heathcliff’s relationship: “One is the myth of star-crossed lovers, who are cheated of marriage by social forces,” and then the metaphysical argument which, “presents Catherine and Heathcliff’s love as of a kind which is in itself incapable of social consummation.” She then volunteers a third option that is based on concepts of free love and/or “twin love” that can found in Romantic literature.

It is interesting, but I’m pretty sure Catherine also thinks she betrayed her own heart? She does tell Nelly she knows in her heart and soul she shouldn’t marry Edgar, and on her deathbed, she says “If I’ve done wrong, I’m dying for it.” I know some take it to mean she thinks that she didn’t do what was wrong to her, but she does add “You left me too” so I think she does agree with Heathcliff that she, in a way, left him. 

There is ample room in the novel to compare Heathcliff and Edgar as there are few similarities between them. The society in which they live is violent and hierarchical and that never seems to be questioned by any character - I think that is an important backdrop and allows for commentary on class, race, and gender. I don’t think this particularly has to do with how we view exclusive relationships. And based on the reasons Catherine gives for why she would marry one and not the other, I think Catherine understands she is limited by this society. Her reasons for marrying Edgar are all very practical.

Instead of any fulfillment, from the start, Nelly says Catherine struggled and had an “objection to her two friends meeting at all.” Catherine is aware they dislike each other from the start and this makes things more difficult for her as Hindley wants her to marry Edgar, Heathcliff is more and more remote, and the two of them are stuck suffering Hindley’s cruelty. Nelly even says during this time, “I’ve had many a laugh at her perplexities and untold troubles, which she vainly strove to hide from my mockery.” If what Stoneman says is true she would have to be beyond naive, if not utterly foolish, to think that a relationship with both Edgar and Heathcliff would be desirable for spiritual fulfillment after Heathcliff’s treatment at the Grange, or his throwing applesauce on Edgar (which this scene brings her to tears and she blames Edgar for Heathcliff’s resulting punishment). 

Stoneman does attempt to reconcile the Catherine confiding in Nelly that she knows in her heart and soul she is wrong to accept Linton’s proposal - she says this statement is negated by her insistence of never being parted from Heathcliff and that therefore means her love for him must simply be different and Romantic, rather than romantic/marriage-oriented. I’ve written a lot about this already but so I’ll just say that is pretty selective of the whole conversation with Nelly. 

Stoneman says, that from this scene and how we see Catherine greet Heathcliff this shows, “No sense of tragic irony seems to enter into her consciousness, nor any foreboding of difficulties.”? Seems to be a bit of an overstatement when you consider that Edgar’s proposal brings Catherine to tears because she feels she isn’t meant to be with him. She doesn’t excitedly tell Nelly that she loves them both, and she doesn’t seem very optimistic when she says Edgar, “must shake off his antipathy, and tolerate him, at least.” While idealistic in thinking Edgar would help Heathcliff she is still pragmatic in understanding how few options she has. She fears Heathcliff listening to this conversation and will be hurt by this, or him finding out how much she loves him. Is her "delirious” joy upon Heathcliff’s return really a sign of her lack of conformity and utter loss at understanding their jealously? Or is it more likely because she thought he might be dead for those three years? She also tirelessly spends the next 3 months balancing Heathcliff’s dislike of Edgar (which I believe also spurs her to continue concealing her feelings towards him), Edgar’s jealously, and a new fun problem: Isabella’s infatuation with Heathcliff. 

I won’t go into too much detail in this because it’s so similar to the metaphysical argument, but Stoneman notes that in Shelley’s ‘Epipsychidion’ there isn’t just the concept of free love but of “twin love” between 2 of the 3 person triangle, so it assumes that Catherine/Heathcliff could more platonic or at least asexual. 

In this interpretation Catherine “revises the traditional masculinity” of the “Romantic lover:” 

“Shelly’s experiment depended on women’s readiness to be generous and co-operative, and Catherine’s similar plan founders on the combative notion of masculinity endorsed by our culture. Attempting to ‘divide’ her love between men who seem to her too different to be rivals, she finds them transformed into the ‘chained friend’ and ‘jealous foe’ of convention.”

I don’t agree with the idea that Catherine sees them as too different to be rivals? She does compare them which casts them as two men vying for the position of her husband. Also, she based her decision to marry one and not the other on socioeconomic advantage, not who she loves more, or how they differ as people and might give her different kinds of love, although she points out her changing/more superficial and limited love for Edgar compared to the love she has for Heathcliff which are like the “eternal rocks beneath.”

Her love for Edgar is full of stipulations - she would “only pity him—hate him, perhaps, if he were ugly, and a clown.” Heathcliff’s degraded state does nothing to change her love, which is why I say her love for them is unequal. I honestly think saying she loves them equally yet differently, or that she is totally unaware of their jealousies is so preposterous based on the text, I don’t understand how so many critics, that have written extensively on the book all parrot it? Yet Stoneman continues to assert Catherine is “innocent” and “baffled” by their jealously. With almost everything she says about Catherine I find myself thinking, “well yes, but no?” For example, with this idea: 

“Catherine’s apparent self-destruction has to be seen, not as willful egotism, but as a despairing response to her two lovers’ failure to love her enough to share her attention”

I do think this is mostly true. It is not willful egotism, and she is upset that they can’t tolerate each other - but Catherine’s illness is a long-running problem that is closely associated with her relationship with Heathcliff and his absence that began after he first runs away. Through the next three years, she says she “endured very, very bitter misery.” I’d say it has nothing to do with her feelings towards Edgar who she has been making herself distant during this whole time while telling Heathcliff (in spirit since he isn’t actually in the room): “If I dare you now, will you venture? If you do, I’ll keep you.”

Again I do somewhat agree with Stoneman’s interpretation of Catherine telling Heathcliff, “you and Edgar have broken my heart,” which Stoneman says, “can only be explained if we accept that while Catherine still relates to both her lovers, Edgar and Heathcliff have broken her heart by defining love as exclusive.” I think they do break her heart by their selfishness over her, and I think she never intends to hurt either of them. She has at different times suffered to protect one or the other. But this still doesn’t change her stronger, unconditional, yet socially unacceptable and thwarted love for Heathcliff. Her issue isn’t the loss of Edgar, they broke her heart by both behaving in a way that cast Heathcliff from her company. Divorce was not really an option for her - the most dysfunctional couple in the novel, Heathcliff and Isabella, never legally separate even. So why wouldn’t she try to keep the peace between them to be near Heathcliff? The Romantic love interpretation is difficult to reconcile with her rejection of Edgar which happens on a few occasions and most apparent when she tells him, “What you touch at present you may have; but my soul will be on that hill top before you lay hands on me again. I don’t want you, Edgar: I’m past wanting you. Return to your books. I’m glad you possess a consolation, for all you had in me is gone.” 

As the essay went on I felt it got weaker. Stoneman says Catherine’s haunting of Heathcliff must be read as an “appeal against his failures of generosity.” Not because she wishes she was never parted from him, as Catherine herself said? Catherine doesn’t seem to die with any animosity towards Heathcliff - she forgives him for leaving her, asks for forgiveness, and tells him, “You never harmed me in your life.” 

**** EDIT *** I just meant that he goal isn’t to punish Heathcliff, since before her death she makes it clear she doesn’t want to parted from him. I do prefer the theory that she she haunts him in part to call him off his revenge and harming those she loves and to bring him back to her. I don’t think her ghost is static or simply a “reward” for Heathcliff despite all the wrong he did. I think she does become “incomparably above and beyond” them all and remains a force as she was in her life. Or she could be not a ghost at all and he encounters with could be proof of Heathcliff’s madness and later becomes a simple old folktale and superstition. (I’ll admit I like to view the ghosts are real and I think there number of references to them by other characters do suggest that we are meant to read them that way). ***

After Catherine’s death, Stoneman says, “There is, after all, something in the haunting which the usual readings of the novel fail to explain. If the ghost of Catherine wails to be let in, and Heathcliff begs her to return, what is it that keeps them apart?” I think we’d have to all agree that what Lockwood saw was actually a ghost, and I have seen this interpreted a million times? Stoneman says it is Heathcliff’s own “implacable obsession with revenge, which effectively shuts her out of his consciousness.” Which I could agree if we are reading it assuming the ghosts are real...but then she says that Heathcliff reaches his heaven only as he abandons his revenge against Edgar and “at last he ‘comprehends in his person’ the preposterous simultaneity of her loves.” This made no sense to me. I don’t see any reason for thinking he begins to accept Catherine’s love for Edgar, which he kind of already had? He tells Nelly that he doesn’t physically hurt him for that reason, he just also believes she loves him more. And I would say he does defeat Edgar and Hindley? Just because he can’t also destroy Hareton and Cathy II doesn’t negate that in his lifetime he outlives his enemies and has control of everything and everyone at Wuthering Heights and Thrushcross Grange (which he never shows signs of regretting his actions). It might not have gone as far as he originally planned, but I would say he does sort of win. And his abandonment of revenge isn’t ever associated with Edgar? Heathcliff does give some insight to what causes him to lose interest in his plot, an aspect of it being the connection to Hareton. In a discussion between him and Nelly he tells her she may think he’s insane “if I try to describe the thousand forms of past associations and ideas he (Hareton) awakens or embodies.” It is because of this intense association with him that he says, “his society is no benefit; rather an aggravation of the constant torment I suffer: and it partly contributes to render me regardless how he and his cousin go on together. I can give them no attention any more.” I believe the last time Heathcliff mentions Edgar is right after his death and he tells Nelly that, “I wish he’d been soldered in lead,” and goes on to describe yet another plot against Edgar by having his and Catherine’s graves opened on the side nearest each other so that they don’t have any barriers between them and then, "by the time Linton gets to us he’ll not know which is which!” So the idea he softens towards Edgar or becomes more willing to share Catherine in any way is...improbable to me. 

The theory also suffers (like so many others), in ignoring the ending when forming the narrative. Stoneman mentions the three graves and says that the people seeing Heathcliff and Catherine’s ghosts are basically country folk who are inclined to sympathize with “Heathcliff's final possession of his 'woman’” and also most readers fall into these same “hegemonic constructions” by not considering that the "the sleepers in that quiet earth” are at peace together. I agree with @princesssarisa that it doesn’t quite fit into the fact that many of the people that see the ghosts didn’t support or even know of Heathcliff and Catherine’s relationship - the young shepherd boy doesn’t seem to know who Catherine even is. To also say that the reader is projecting their desired ending doesn’t feel right because the ending is something that Heathcliff and Catherine have been foreshadowing through the whole book. Catherine says, “I’ll not lie there by myself: they may bury me twelve feet deep, and throw the church down over me, but I won’t rest till you are with me. I never will!” She doesn’t refer to Edgar, who she says can be buried anywhere, it doesn’t matter to her (poor Edgar). She also tells Heathcliff, “I shall not be at peace,” and “I only wish us never to be parted,” as well as other similar quotes implying that she will be waiting for Heathcliff to come to her. I don’t like the view that Catherine is so lacking agency in her relationship with Heathcliff either - I’ve never thought that he “possesses” her. She’s the one who makes the demand that he leave the world behind and join her - the end does seem to be him finally following her, as she says he always does. 

And then, what of Cathy and Hareton? How do we reconcile the narrative with the features of the second generation? It would seem, if we assume Catherine has a differing yet equal love of the two men, and wished for a relationship where they can be peaceful together, and then the only scene we have of them together is in their graves, it feels pessimistic. Our one Shelleyan model is dead and buried with two people incapable of overcoming their jealousies and possessiveness. When considering the ending with Hareton and Cathy, would we have to conclude this a cautionary tale of Catherine’s naivety? Stoneman does make almost this suggestion and says it could also be because Emily had watched Branwell and Charlotte get hurt by love married people, so it could be showing what tragedy befalls if love is selfish and possessive. Though there is nothing to suggest that Hareton and Cathy love isn’t any of those things? 

I must be terribly boring because I think the easiest way of describing Catherine and Heathcliff is that they are, “star-crossed lovers, who are cheated of marriage by social forces.” Obviously, that is simplistic and glosses over their more spiritual aspects and certainly, they are not how the 1939 film interpreted them, which Stoneman rightly says, “recasts the novel in class terms as 'the story of the stable-boy and the lady’” - but I still think its closer than saying they are models of Freudian psychology, siblings, celestial beings, or Shelleyan. There certainly is spirituality and complexities in their love, and throughout the plot, as well as other characters, but it is still very much possible to read too deeply into double meanings and what is left unsaid.

My end take - some lyricism of Epipsychidion is echoed in quotations from Catherine and I would have much preferred to compare and contrast the two works rather than the attempt to shoehorn the rest of the story into a similar narrative. I think if you made a comparison to just the part after Heathcliff returns, a really interesting and strong argument could be made about how Catherine does try to create a similar relationship as described in Shelley’s work. I don’t think the situation was ever her ideal, but she certainly has no desire to be cunning or vampish - that’s not in her nature, and her relationship with Heathcliff doesn’t necessitate them having sex. She does try to put into practice a semi-Romantic love triangle but I don’t think she harbors any delusions of Edgar’s and Heathcliff’s animosity. Rather than a bohemian approach, it is her forcefulness and controlling that keep them both at bay. Tellingly she tells Nelly, “I believe I might kill him (Edgar), and he wouldn’t wish to retaliate.” She feels confident in her sway over him to get what she wants and she wants to be able to continue her relationship with Heathcliff in any way she can. It’s not necessary to revise and add new narratives to situations in the novel that are clearly able to be discerned from the text - such as Heathcliff’s failing desire for revenge or people seeing their ghosts at the end. I don’t think Epipsychidion is a terribly good lens to read Catherine through as her love can also be jealous, selfish, and possessive. There are too many aspects of Catherine’s character that conflict with the ideas Epipsychidion expresses.

[goblinconceivable]

All The Feels

Random bulletpoints of Annie/Jeff analysis because I am overcome with shippiness.  :D  Also more like bullet-lengthy-paragraphs.  You tried, self, you tried.

Pascal’s Triangle (PT) is not a love triangle.  

Sure, look at the top two rows and you’ve got a binary split, ie, choice between two women.  But PT is row based, your current row based on the one above.  It’s complex.  Look below the binary surface of choice to row 3, where it actually becomes PT, where the complexity begins (and Community is about complexity.)  1, 2, 1, a total of 4. The 2 is the merging of the two 1s from row two - Ie, two women who get lumped together.  And beyond them is a 1 that springs out of nowhere - Annie.  Surprise!

Kiss at the end of S1

Jeff’s major deal is being afraid of expressing caring/vulnerability, while desperately craving/needing it.  Britta and Slater were both saying they loved him, and he does want to take that, but runs scared because they are  challenging him to admit his feelings in public, which no one who really knows and cares about him would do.  His scene with Annie is private. And she isn’t asking him FOR anything, she’s just asking what’s up, because she cares about the answer.  He feels safe, he opens up, it’s intimacy, which is both giving and taking.  Notably he admits he’s glad she’s staying after his share, this is him saying he cares about her too.

His explanation of the situation is a perceived choice between being the New Year’s guy (who he wants to be) and the Three Weeks Later guy (who he is.)  But the thing about New Year’s is the initial momentum always fades, and you have to put in the work, which Slater doesn’t help him with.  And he WON’T be able to sustain it on is own.  The guy he IS isn’t who he wants to be, it’s just giving up, rather than striving, even if imperfectly, to reach those goals.  Annie falls into the sweet spot: she understands what his default is, but shows him that he CAN be the man he wants to be, shows him what those steps ARE, encourages him to take the steps to be that person, and rewards him when he succeeds.  Which he does, with her behind him.  

And she kisses him first.  Which is an offering similar to Britta and Slater’s public announcements, but through action, not words.  Jeff uses words as shield and weapon, as did the other two.  Bypassing this essentially shortcircuits his brain.  His brain will warp and analyze and question, but she kisses him gently, an invitation not a demand.  He’s already put aside his sword and shield during their talk, and doesn’t feel the need to pick them up because he feels safe and cared for and is okay accepting and reciprocating that.

Play

Jeff is all adult and aloof and beyond such petty childish pursuits such as play, which is the scoffed at domain of Annie/Troy/Abed.  But he actually really wants it.  It likely stems in part from his loss of a proper childhood, but it’s also just who he is.  Imagination isn’t just for the young, the loss of the ability to play is an oft-bemoaned feature of adulthood, one the learned remind us we ought recapture.  (And a joy of parenthood is getting to do that through your children.)  But look, he literally was playacting being a lawyer.  It’s how he engages with the world.  He just justified that as a means to an end and did it for power and profit, rather than for enjoyment.

We see this, I argue, when responding to Annie’s playacting they were married. Annie anticipates a bad reaction, but he doesn’t give one.  No judgment.  He then establishes it’s not a deeper issue (”do I have to worry about this” ie, is this real/insanity).  When he says “I can tell you one thing your fantasy got wrong...” he’s not challenging her, or even taking offense, and while he’s not entering into her fantasy world (which is over anyway), he’s offering fodder.  He’s involving himself in the narrative process for her benefit.  And in the couched language of daydream he’s reassuring her -if- it was true, he would be devoted.  IF is a super important word in play, because you don’t have to believe, for example, you ARE a pirate.  You just need to act as IF you were a pirate.

Also cute, I take as justified fanon the deleted scene where he orders her appletini.  He was whining to her about it but it was relaxed because they both know he’d do it anyway.  And when the bartender turns out to be a believer in Annie’s created fantasy world, Jeff stops himself from correcting him and destroying the world.  Instead, he lets it persist just far enough to let himself glance at Annie as if it was true, and in that moment he sees her through the eyes of fantasy, and sees a beautiful woman, rather than all the complexity of their relationship.

Then there’s basically all the giant Greendale instances of play.  Which one way or the other, he gets roped into and ends up jumping into with abandon.  (Paintball, lava etc.)  And they’re often paired, because he enjoys playing with her, and the “if this” acts as license for them to explore their compatibility.  And their capers, when they pair up in the “real world”, is really just a sophisticated form of play.  As brought up pointedly when they were searching for the ASB, there’s a dual nature here.  They aren’t just buddies, like Troy and Abed, who are also very fantasy oriented (cardboard submarine!).  There’s a level of daydream beneath the fantasy world where they can set aside the complexities of their relationship, and say “if we’re solving this crime, then we can live in this bubble and just be together.”

I also really love the whole Professor Professorson episode because of course the layers are just so intricate and delightful when they unfold.  He tackles her which was total overreaction, he’s in a heightened world and committed to it.  They plot out this crazy intricate play to teach the Dean a lesson together, where they involve real emotions.  Many of which are Annie’s, but that means they’re creating a world in which it is safe to amplify her feelings which they are both aware of but are usually repressed, especially by Jeff.  And he praises her for that later (she went off book and deceived like a master) rather than being uncomfortable.  They exit play safely because they trust each other while playing and can leave that permissive world as an if.  And it ends with the blanket fort collapsing and cocooning them.  It is a play space literally being broken, begging the question of how much impact our play can have on our real selves.

Season 6

So basically I think I missed fandom the first time around and just binged on meta and there’s (fanon?) that Jeff spent the season looking for her attention, but Annie had pulled back?  I zipped through a bunch of scenes they were in together, and heartily agree.  Also I think I went a little nutty but What I see:

Annie doesn’t ignore him or anything, but where she might have previously inserted herself in his life, she starts to let him fend for himself while she diverts her attention to other relationships, and treats him more like she does the others.  I don’t think she really does anything like taking his class so she can evaluate his teaching and bludgeon him into being better?  But when they’re in a situation, like City College’s ad, she stands up to him as normal, challenging him to be better and do the right thing, as she always has.  Rewards him with approval when he does, and his whispered “thank you” is the cutest thing ever because it’s an intimate choice in a rather boisterous exchange.

Meanwhile Jeff does seem to spend a lot of time and energy trying to get back to a place where he’s first in her eyes.  There are a lot of shots in S6 a the Table and group scenes that involve him looking at her disproportionately, first, last, or only when speaking, esp when they’re all at the table.  When I went back and tried to do the same to S5 those scenes are set up a bit differently and I saw less of it but I think there’s just fewer group scenes in general though?.  In S6, he often ends a comment directed at the group (non table) by looking at Annie, indicating he wants her response, and thus her attention and engagement.  And often, she is the next person to speak.  Which is her personality as a leader, which supports the idea that while he’s seeking her out, she isn’t necessarily responding to that but just being her. 

Finale

I’ve sort of run myself dry thinking through other things.  And great analysis is plentiful and most recent.  So not even bullet points just ramble But:

Oh3, so when Garrett proposed and Abed noted Jeff had a funny look, he’s been daydreaming marrying Annie for that lone plus longer?  That took me a long time to put together as an actual literal thing.

Oh2, it’s all canon that he has issues with prolonged eye contact because he doesn’t want people to see him broken and he doesn’t break eye contact through any of this.  He knows she knows he’s broken already and is quietly fine with her seeing everything and this is a moment for *sobs*

Oh wait hey, so callback to that bit where she’s like “your words don’t mean anything” and he’s like “That’s what conversation is, people saying things to get stuff.”  Because he’s 100% not trying to get anything by telling her he’s let her go.  And he means a lot by saying it.  And if he said “I love you” there’s an implied sense of obligation to say it back and since he means romantically he can’t do that.  So this is just him letting her know, no pressure, no expectation, that he loves her and has loved her but it’s okay because she’s free and he wants her to be free because he loves her.  And he means it so hard when she says “kiss me goodbye” he’s all “you don’t owe me anything.”

But she does love him too, except she knows she’s in a different place emotionally and professionally.  And it’s sweet and a gift because she doesn’t make this about her but about him and his feelings.  So she preempts his regrets because she knows he WON’T kiss her goodbye unless she invites him to.  There’s something I’m reaching for and can’t find here.  She doesn’t admit to anything because there’s no point?  It would just hurt him either way?  Sharing her feelings through action rather than words?

And so much squee thinking how far everyone’s come for this scene to be a thing which could happen.

Callback to Annie’s marriage fantasy when Jeff has his own.  Hers was external, by her personality (esp at the time of her maturation) and thus public and psychologically working out a reasonable feeling of abandonment as she gave their fictional selves marital difficulties.  His is very internal, and occurs after Abed, always so reliable as a gateway to fantasy, turns the tables on him.  He’s experiencing reasonable feelings of abandonment, and while he runs, it’s to a safe space of “what if,” a coping mechanism he has learned, and which allows for working out of psychological issues.  

It’s dual: in that the larger issue is his need for a sense of stability.  Though he’s staring at the table the scene doesn’t involve Greendale at all, he already had that fantasy.  This is about wanting a life outside of the safe zone of the college.  And while he suggests a dog as an option he imagined a kid because having one represents stability for him - it was his father who left, and he won’t leave.  If there’s a kid, this is a life, Annie can’t leave.  But he offers her imaginary self complete editing powers, because all he really wants is to be able to love and be loved.  It’s indulgence, a desperate grasp at balm because while he let her go, he can’t let her -go.-  He was okay with being close friends, they do love each other as friends.  See his pitch.  But faced with losing that, he’s stripped bare.  He indulges in his supressed hearts desire and is faced with the reality of what he already knows: it’s not in the cards.

And he’s stripped down to insecurities that aren’t limited to Annie.  It’s cute how they jive over Marvel, though it’s weird to me and takes up more time and weird dramatic looking around that doesn’t feel playful enough to be justified.  The tone of their voices is too serious, it’s a mismatch.  I like how he admits the huge thing that he let her go as far as he has control, and suddenly a time pressure is on their alone time.  Everything is immediate right now, everything happening fast.  I wonder what Annie would have said if not for the text.  But that’s the thing, it’s the wrong time for them and this is a goodbye.  It’s too late but just under the wire all at once.

In this chapter at least.  In the safety of the group Annie brings up a season 7, which we all know could happen years down the line.  Would have been more fitting if she said movie though.  Still, he takes that as the comfort in which it was intended.

WTF with his all coed season 7?  Yes, we cut to it so it totally isn’t happening, but has he put his issues to rest and is just fantasizing crap or what?  It makes no sense to me.

I love that he not only puts her first after she invites him to kiss her goodbye by asking “what about you,” but is -asking for consent.-  He doesn’t even move towards her until he gets it, he’s literally just standing back.  What’s up with the penis thing?  Meta reference to shortcut arguments that it’s not true love but lust?  Is it Jeff acknowledging his own cynicism and how he’s dropped it?  Since he’s so clearly not in a lust mode here.  Is he adding a tiny bit of his usual pointed add ins to his speeches?

I guess it’s like...  this is one of his speeches, but it feels out of place because of his delivery?  Which is beautifully subdued and resigned and honest and just defeated, but defeated in the sense that he defeated all the barriers he still keeps around himself.  

and goodbye hug and kiss at the airport.

[albatris]

is there romance in atdao or is it all just found famiy vibes? if there is romance im real curious about how peeps would express those kinda feelings

hello hi hello this took me AGES I’m very sorry I kept getting distracted by things such as being asleep

anyway yes thank you for the question! romance? yes, we’ve got some of this going on, sure, though I would count the romance as within the found family c:

I don’t know if you wanted a Ramble™ but this is a topic I can ramble about and I’m in a bit of a rambling mood so you can have a ramble, free of charge, just take it up to the register and have them enter the code “logan this is not what I ordered”

but yeah, your question? about eight vaguely relevant tangents immediately spring to mind! also spoilers?? spoilers after the cut

I really should have formatted this response in a way that puts the super spoiler heavy part at the end but since when have I ever ever in my life made things easy for my dear sweet followers

y’all know what I’m like with spoilers by now 

but yeah, to set the scene, there’s two main romantic......................... situations going on in the story, the first being between Noa and Alice, and the second being between Kai, Tris and Shara. so, the former I would describe as “a legitimate romantic subplot” and the latter I would describe as a character tripping and falling into it by sheer chance and just being like “oh whoops well I guess this is what I’m doing now” which is also extremely valid

Noa and Alice end up not being, like, Confirmed Endgame by the end of the story even though much of the plot looks like it’s heading in that direction, and like...... yeah, in my head, they do end up in a romantic relationship at some point post-story, but I’m not sure on what sort of timeline

during the story itself, it’s established that they do share mutual feelings for each other and this is likely heading towards a romantic relationship, but I think since much of the story sees Noa still trying to find her feet in just, like....... having friends at all, and trusting those friends, and knowing who she is in relation to others on any sort of level, I think near the end of the story she decides that she’s not at a place where she wants to try and figure out a romantic relationship just yet

it’s not a hard no, it’s just a “hey not right now” and a “let’s see what happens later down the track, for now it’s just nice to be around friends” ‘cause even that is just super new territory for her

which I worry will make people feel cheated, but also, I think it’s the ending for this subplot that would make the most sense for where the characters are at and would be the most fitting c:

and secondly there’s like

hm. ok

well, there WAS a vaguely jokey post I made yonks back where I pitched the idea of an ATDAO polyamory ending being just like. Alice who’s dating Noa who’s dating Shara who’s dating Kai who’s dating Tris. and I stand by this being solid as hell. but also, given the ending to Noa’s subplot with Alice, it doesn’t really work in the story canon, n though I think Noa and Shara is a dynamic I really enjoy, it would likely not actually play out in reality :P

which leaves the trio of Shara, Kai and Tris, a trio I’ve always vibed with and had vaguely on my radar as a valid poly ending but for some reason didn’t twig that I could just, like, make it canon and no one can stop me LMAO

but yeah, this one, like I said, it’s not so much aHD whole big subplot, it’s just something that falls into place super casually and is never really brought up beyond “oh is this a thing that’s happening?” “yeah” “cool ok”

I think there’s a brief window as a reader where you might be like “ugh this is gonna be a stupid love triangle or some weird jealousy thing” but then it just ends up being a complete non-issue. there’s basically zero romantic drama for this plotline, Tris and Shara are bros and Kai is dating both of them

n as for your question itself, it depends on whether you mean, like.......... how they would go about expressing to someone else that they have romantic feelings or, like, how they express their affections in a romantic scenario

‘cause for the former, the answer for both Tris and Noa is just.... they don’t

Noa because at the start of the story she views her crush on Alice as a huge fucking inconvenience that’s going to make things messy and complicated, so she just tries to ignore her romantic feelings as hard as she can (obviously this doesn’t last hahaha). but yeah, she’s just very pissed off that she has a crush and doesn’t want to acknowledge it :P she also has no idea how to respond when Alice expresses romantic interest in her, this is all extremely new territory

and Tris because he doesn’t realise he’s even experiencing romantic feelings in the first place?? like. the boy has so much baseline anxiety jitteriness that stuff like, idk, feeling your heart pick up pace, butterflies in the stomach, any kinda social nerves you get around the people you like, etc, he experiences this with Kai and is automatically just like “great now you’re here and I’m having a panic attack can you please leave”

just slaps a label of Bad Vibes onto it then later is like Wait A Minute

but yeah, I think neither of them would be super comfy actually expressing their feelings out loud or making that first move, Noa because she’s super fuckin petty and stubborn and Tris because he’s waaaaaaaay too fuckin socially anxious for that shit are you kidding

in terms of how they express their affections though??

so like. I have to reiterate that I’m aro and ace and I have a lot of difficulty in articulating what makes a romance A Romance, like??? I have relationships that are friendships and relationships that are romantic, but I myself don’t really experience romantic attraction in the way other people do

as such, the way I write characters in their romantic expressions tends to be just an extension of how they act in their friendships? which I think is a pretty ok thing to base a romance off anyway, but like, yeah, romance, this is a mystery to me for the most part, do I look like I know what a romance is

anyway I think once Alice and Noa get a little closer there’s a lot of good-natured ribbing and friendly insults, n since they already had a bit of a rivalry going on beforehand I would imagine this competitive streak doesn’t disappear :P Noa is generally uncomfy with being Openly affectionate and soft with others, so I think there would be a lot of more “indirect” ways she shows this care. I think they have the kind of relationship where from an outside perspective you don’t really get how it’s warm and affectionate, but it’s just ‘cause you don’t know the lingo, right

Tris is just the cheerleader type in all friendly relationships I think, lots of encouragement and hype and compliments and enthusiasm, he’s very excitable and very easily impressed hahahaha. though I think it takes people a while to click that he’s legitimately being 100% earnest and genuine, the constant deadpan does not work super well in his favour

anyway I’m gonna hop back up for a sec so I can cover Shara and Kai real quick

these two are............ a bit more direct with actually verbalising their feelings to people? Shara is a socially anxious type, but also not someone who enjoys beating around the bush, n she generally likes to just speak what’s on her mind and be direct with others whenever she can. Kai just kinda........ I mean, I don’t think they consider romantic affections to be a super big deal? at least in theory? I say in theory ‘cause, like, I think they give the impression that this kind of conversation is just super smooth and easy for them, and on the inside they’re like “it’s really not a big deal it’s just feelings it’s whatever” but they’re still anxious about it and had to hype themself up for like a week before going through with it lmao

but ye, in terms of how they express their affections, they’re both fairly similar. you suddenly will just Not Be Able To Get Rid Of Them, they’ll constantly be hanging around in the same space or dragging you into whatever shenanigans they’ve got going on, I think for both of them their favourite expression of love is just sharing in experiences or sharing the same space, just Being Involved And Around 

a “hey come help me run errands” type or a “I’m gonna hang off the back of your sofa while you’re studying and sometimes slingshot balls of paper at you with a rubber band” type :P

and now I have to go on Another Tangent just ‘cause the subject matter is vaguely relevant and idk where else I’m gonna go on this tangent

there is definitely some part of me that’s still super super fond of the idea of Kai being aro??? and I initially did write them as such, but for the moment this is not something that’s remained canon in text ‘cause I’m a little bitch ‘cause like

Kai would be aro in very much the same way I am, which is to say, they’re a person who is extremely full of love and who has difficulty in differentiating what the step is supposed to be between friendship feelings and romantic feelings, so, someone who may not necessarily “get” what makes a romance a romance or experience any feelings different from a strong friendship, but who is still open to being in a romantic relationship

(the difference between us being that Kai Really Really Likes People and enjoys being close with others as much as possible, where I’m more the awkward standoffish hermit type lmao)

but yeah, I was kinda like. well. despite being a perfectly valid aro person in a romantic relationship myself, if I were a fictional character people would probably call me bad rep HAHAHA. like “yeah they’re apparently aro but they don’t really ACT aro and the author put them in a romantic relationship ://”

and while I think there’s value to be had in fiction in exploring the different ways a person can be aro, I just, like................... thought about the hypothetical future discourse and was just like UGH. I cannot be fucking BOTHERED

I get enough people in real life being like “ok but you’re not REALLY aro like why do you even bother having that label it’s not like it matters in your context” even though I’m the goddamn expert on my own experiences you bastards

lmao

but yeah I think aro Kai is canon in my heart hahahaha. and they may end up articulating some of the same feelings, maybe just not with the label applied, who knows

anyway that’s my rambles done I think! thanks for reading n have a nice night c:

[silent-era-of-cinema]

John Gilbert (born John Cecil Pringle; July 10, 1897 – January 9, 1936) was an American actor, screenwriter and director. He rose to fame during the silent film era and became a popular leading man known as "The Great Lover". His legendary breakthrough came in 1925 with his starring roles in The Merry Widow and The Big Parade. At the height of his career, Gilbert rivaled Rudolph Valentino as a box office draw.

Gilbert's career declined precipitously when silent pictures gave way to talkies. Though Gilbert was often cited as one of the high-profile examples of an actor who was unsuccessful in making the transition to sound films, his decline as a star had far more to do with studio politics and money than with the sound of his screen voice, which was rich and distinctive.

Born John Cecil Pringle in Logan, Utah, to stock-company actor parents, John Pringle (1865–1929) and Ida Apperly Gilbert (1877–1913), he struggled through a childhood of abuse and neglect, with his family moving frequently and young "Jack" having to attend assorted schools throughout the United States. When his family finally settled in California, he attended Hitchcock Military Academy in San Rafael. After he left school, Gilbert worked as a rubber goods salesman in San Francisco, then performed with the Baker Stock Company in Portland, Oregon, in 1914. He subsequently found work the following year as a stage manager in another stock company in Spokane, Washington, but he soon lost that job when the company went out of business.

After losing his stage job in 1915, Gilbert decided to try screen acting, and he quickly gained work as a film extra through Herschell Mayall. Gilbert first appeared in The Mother Instinct (1915), a short directed by Wilfred Lucas. He then found work as an extra with the Thomas Ince Studios in productions such as The Coward (1915), Aloha Oe (1915), Civilization (1915), The Last Act (1916), and William Hart's Hell's Hinges (1916).

During his initial years in films, Gilbert also performed in releases by Kay-Bee Company such as Matrimony (1915), The Corner (1915), Eye of the Night (1916), and Bullets and Brown Eyes (1916). His first major costarring role was as Willie Hudson in The Apostle of Vengeance, also with William S. Hart.[6] Viewed by studio executives as a promising but still "juvenile" actor at this stage of his career, Gilbert's contract salary was $40 a week ($940 today), fairly ample pay for most American workers in the early 1900s.[7] Gilbert continued to get more substantial parts at Kay-Bee, which billed him as "Jack Gilbert" in The Aryan (1916), The Phantom (1916), Shell 43 (1916), The Sin Ye Do (1917), The Weaker Sex (1917), and The Bride of Hate (1917). His first true leading role was in Princess of the Dark (1917) with Enid Bennett, but the film was not a big success and he went back to supporting roles in The Dark Road (1917), Happiness (1917), The Millionaire Vagrant (1917), and The Hater of Men (1917).

Gilbert went over to Triangle Films where he was in The Mother Instinct (1917), Golden Rule Kate (1917), The Devil Dodger (1917) (second billed), Up or Down? (1917), and Nancy Comes Home (1918). For Paralta Plays, Gilbert did Shackled (1918), One Dollar Bid (1918), and Wedlock (1918) and More Trouble (1918) for Anderson, but the company went bankrupt.[7] He also was cast in Doing Their Bit (1918) at Fox and then returned to Triangle for The Mask (1918). Gilbert also did Three X Gordon (1918) for Jesse Hampton, The Dawn of Understanding (1918), The White Heather (1919) for Maurice Tourneur, The Busher (1919) for Thomas Ince, The Man Beneath for Haworth, A Little Brother of the Rich (1919) for Universal, The Red Viper (1919) for Tyrad, For a Woman's Honor (1919) for Jess Hampton, Widow by Proxy (1919) for Paramount, Heart o' the Hills (1919) for Mary Pickford, and Should a Woman Tell? (1919) for Screen Classics.

Maurice Tourneur signed him to a contract to both write and act in films. Gilbert performed in and co-wrote The White Circle (1920), The Great Redeemer (1921), and Deep Waters (1921). As a writer only, he worked on The Bait (1921), which starred and was produced by Hope Hampton. For Hampton, Gilbert wrote and directed as well, but he did not appear in Love's Penalty (1921).

In 1921, Gilbert signed a three-year contract with Fox Film Corporation, which subsequently cast him in romantic leading roles and promoted him now as "John Gilbert". The actor's first starring part for the studio was in Shame (1921).[10] He followed it with leading roles in Arabian Love (1922), Gleam O'Dawn (1922), The Yellow Stain (1922), Honor First (1922), Monte Cristo (1922), Calvert's Valley (1922), The Love Gambler (1922), and A California Romance (1922). Many of the scenarios for these films were written by Jules Furthman.

Gilbert returned temporarily to Tourneur to costar with Lon Chaney in While Paris Sleeps (1923). Back at Fox, he starred in Truxton King (1923), Madness of Youth (1923), St. Elmo (1923), and The Exiles (1923). The same year he starred in Cameo Kirby (1923), directed by John Ford, co starring Jean Arthur. He went into The Wolf Man (1923) with Norma Shearer, not a horror film, but the story of a man who believes he murdered his fiancée's brother while drunk. Gilbert also performed in his last films for Fox in 1924, including Just Off Broadway, A Man's Mate, The Lone Chance, and Romance Ranch.

Under the auspices of movie producer Irving Thalberg, Gilbert obtained a release from his Fox contract and moved to MGM, where he became a full-fledged star cast in major productions. First starring in His Hour (1924) directed by King Vidor and written by Elinor Glyn his film career entered its ascendancy. He followed this success with He Who Gets Slapped (1924) co-starring Chaney and Shearer and directed by Victor Sjöström; The Snob (1924) with Shearer; The Wife of the Centaur (1924) for Vidor.

The next year, Gilbert would star in two of MGM's most critically acclaimed and popular film productions of the silent era: Erich von Stroheim's The Merry Widow and King Vidor's The Big Parade.

Gilbert was assigned to star in Erich von Stroheim's The Merry Widow by Irving Thalberg, over the objections of the Austrian-American director. Von Stroheim expressed his displeasure bluntly to his leading man: "Gilbert, I am forced to use you in my picture. I do not want you, but the decision was not in my hands. I assure you I will do everything in my power to make you comfortable." Gilbert, mortified, soon stalked off the set in a rage, tearing off his costume. Von Stroheim followed him to his dressing room and apologized. The two agreed to share a drink. Then Gilbert apologized and they had another drink. The tempest subsided and was resolved amicably. According to Gilbert, the contretemps served to "cement a relationship which for my part will never end."

The public adulation that Gilbert experienced with his growing celebrity astounded him: "Everywhere I hear whispers and gasps in acknowledgment of my presence... he whole thing became too fantastic for me to comprehend. Acting, the very thing I had been fighting and ridiculing for seven years, had brought me success, riches and renown. I was a great motion picture artist. Well, I’ll be damned!"

Gilbert was next cast by Thalberg to star in the King Vidor's war-romance The Big Parade (1925), which became the second-highest grossing silent film and the most profitable film of the silent era. Gilbert's "inspired performance" as an American doughboy in France during World War I was the high point of his acting career. He fully immersed himself in the role of Jim Apperson, a Southern gentleman who, with two working class comrades, experiences the horrors of trench warfare. Gilbert declared: "No love has ever enthralled me as did the making of this picture...All that has followed is balderdash."

The following year, Vidor reunited Gilbert with two of his co-stars from that picture, Renée Adorée and Karl Dane, for the film La Bohème (1926) which also starred Lillian Gish. He then did another with Vidor, Bardelys the Magnificent (1926).

In 1926, Gilbert made Flesh and the Devil (1926), his first film with Greta Garbo. Gilbert first encountered Garbo on the set during filming of the railway station scene, and the chemistry between the two was evidently instantaneous. Director Clarence Brown remarked approvingly that he "had a love affair going for me that you couldn’t beat, any way you tried." Garbo and Gilbert soon began a highly publicized romance, much to the delight of their fans and to MGM.

He made The Show (1927) with Adoree for Tod Browning then did Twelve Miles Out (1927) with Joan Crawford and Man, Woman and Sin (1927) with Jeanne Eagels.

Gilbert was reunited with Garbo in a modern adaptation of Tolstoy's 19th-century novel, Anna Karenina. The title was changed to Love (1927) to capitalize on the real life love affair of the stars and advertised by MGM as "Garbo and Gilbert in Love."

Gilbert made The Cossacks (1928) with Adoree; Four Walls (1928) with Crawford; Show People (1928) with Marion Davies for Vidor, in which Gilbert only had a cameo; and The Masks of the Devil (1928) for Victor Sjöström.

Though officially directed by Edmund Goulding, Gilbert, though uncredited, was responsible for directing the love scenes involving Garbo. He was perhaps the only person in the industry whose "artistic judgment" she fully respected. As such, MGM approved of this arrangement.

Gilbert and Garbo were teamed for a third time in A Woman of Affairs (1928). His last silent film was Desert Nights (1929).

With the coming of sound, Gilbert's vocal talents made a good first impression, though the studio had failed to conduct a voice test. The conventional wisdom of the day dictated that actors in the new talkies should emulate "correct stage diction". Gilbert's strict adherence to this method produced an affected delivery that made audiences giggle, and not due to any particularity in Gilbert's natural speech. Indeed, the "quality of his voice compared well with that of co-star Conrad Nagel, regarded as having one of the best voices for sound."

Gilbert signed an immensely lucrative multi-picture contract with MGM in 1928 that totaled $1,500,000. The terms of the agreement positioned MGM executives Irving Thalberg and Nicholas Schenck, both sympathetic to the star, to supervise his career. Gilbert, however, frequently clashed with studio head Louis B. Mayer over creative, social and financial matters. A confrontation between the two men, one that became physical, occurred at the planned double-wedding of Garbo and Gilbert and director King Vidor and actress Eleanor Boardman. Mayer reportedly made a crude remark to Gilbert about Garbo, and Gilbert reacted by knocking Mayer to the floor with his fist.[24] While this story has been disputed or dismissed as hearsay by some historians, Vidor's bride Eleanor Boardman insisted that she actually witnessed the altercation.

In the all-star musical comedy The Hollywood Revue of 1929 (1929), Gilbert and Norma Shearer played the balcony scene from Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, first as written, then followed with a slang rendition of the scene. The comic effect served to "dispell the bad impression" produced by Gilbert's original "mincing" delivery.

Audiences awaited further romantic roles from Gilbert on the talking screen. The next vehicle was the Ruritanian romance His Glorious Night (1929), directed by Lionel Barrymore. According to reviewers, audiences laughed nervously at Gilbert's performance. The offense was not Gilbert's voice, but the awkward scenario along with the overly ardent love scenes. In one, Gilbert keeps kissing his leading lady, (Catherine Dale Owen), while saying "I love you" over and over again. (The scene was parodied in the MGM musical Singin' in the Rain (1952) in which a preview of the fictional The Dueling Cavalier flops disastrously.)

Director King Vidor speculated that the late Rudolph Valentino, Gilbert's main rival for romantic leads in the silent era, probably would have suffered the same fate in the talkie era had he lived. Gilbert's inept phrasing, his "dreadful enunciation" and the "inane" script as the genuine sources of his poor performance, that drew "titters" from audiences.

The persistent myth that John Gilbert had a "squeaky voice" that doomed his career in sound films first emerged from his performance in 1929 with His Glorious Night. It was even rumored that Louis B. Mayer ordered Gilbert's voice to be gelded by manipulating the sound track to give it a higher, less masculine pitch. Later, after analyzing the film's sound track, British film historian Kevin Brownlow found that the timbre and frequency of Gilbert's speaking scenes in His Glorious Night were no different than in his subsequent talkies. Brownlow also reported from that analysis that Gilbert's voice, overall, was "quite low". With regard to the alleged manipulation of Gilbert's footage by Mayer or by anyone else, television technicians in the 1960s determined that the actor's voice was consistent with those of other performers on the same print, casting doubt that any targeted "sabotaging" of Gilbert's voice occurred.

Film critic John Baxter described Gilbert as having "a light speaking voice", a minor defect that both MGM and the star "magnified into an obsession." Despite any conflicting opinions or myths surrounding the actor's voice, Mayer's lingering resentment and hostility toward Gilbert remained apparent, especially after MGM's star signed a new contract for six pictures at $250,000 each. Those ill feelings fueled additional speculation that Mayer deliberately assigned Gilbert bad scripts and ineffective directors in an effort to void the contract.

Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer cast Gilbert in a film adaption of The Living Corpse by Tolstoy re-titled as Redemption (1929). The bleak atmosphere and maudlin dialogue presaged the disaster looming in the stars’ personal life and career. Gilbert's confident screen presence had vanished, while his use of the exaggerated stage diction that elicited laughs from the audience persisted. In one scene Gilbert declares ominously "I’m going to kill myself to let the whole world know what it has lost."[34]

MGM put him in a more rugged film, Way for a Sailor (1930) with Wallace Beery. He followed it with Gentleman's Fate (1931). Gilbert became increasingly depressed by progressively inferior films and idle stretches between productions. Despite efforts by studio executives at MGM to cancel his contract, Gilbert resolved to thwart Louis B. Mayer and see the six-picture ordeal through to the end.

Gilbert's fortunes were temporarily restored when MGM's production chief Irving Thalberg gave him two projects that were character studies, giving Gilbert an excellent showcase for his versatility. The Phantom of Paris (1931), originally intended for Lon Chaney (who died from cancer in 1930), cast Gilbert as a debonair magician and showman who is falsely accused of murder and uses his mastery of disguise to unmask the real killer.

Downstairs (1932) was based on Gilbert's original story, with the actor playing against type as a scheming, blackmailing chauffeur. The films were well received by critics and fans but failed to revive his career. In between, he appeared in West of Broadway (1931). Shortly after making Downstairs, he married co-star Virginia Bruce; the couple divorced in 1934.

Gilbert fulfilled his contract with MGM with a perfunctory "B" picture – Fast Workers (1933) directed by Browning. He left the studio in 1933, terminating his $10,000 a week contract.

Exhausted and demoralized by his humiliations at MGM and his declining success at the box office, Gilbert began to drink heavily, contributing to his declining physical and mental health.

Gilbert announced his retirement from acting and was working at Fox as an "honorary" director when, in August 1933, Gilbert announced he had signed a seven-year contract with MGM at $75–100,000 a picture. The reason was Greta Garbo insisted that Gilbert return to MGM to play her leading man in Queen Christina (1933), directed by Rouben Mamoulian. Garbo was top-billed, with Gilbert's name beneath the title. Queen Christina, though a critical success, did not revive Gilbert's poor self-image or his career. Garbo was reported to have dropped the young Laurence Olivier scheduled to play the part, but director Rouben Mamoulian recalled that Olivier's screen tests had already eliminated him from consideration.

Columbia Pictures gave Gilbert what would be his final chance for a comeback in The Captain Hates the Sea (1934) in which he gave a capable performance as "a dissipated, bitter [and] cynical" playwright. But the off-screen cast of heavy drinkers encouraged his alcoholism. It was his last film.

Biographer Kevin Brownlow's eulogy to John Gilbert considers the destruction of both the man and his career:

"The career of John Gilbert indicates that the star, and the person playing the star, were regarded by producers as separate entities, subject to totally different attitudes. Gilbert, as an ordinary human being, had no legal right to the stardom that was the sole property of the studio. When Gilbert, as an employee, tried to seize control of the future of Gilbert the star, the studios decided to save their investment from falling into the hands of rivals, [so] they had to wreck their property. Other properties – books, films, sets – could be destroyed with impunity. But the destruction of a star carried with it the destruction of a person…it seems somewhat abhorrent that it took such tragedies as that of John Gilbert to bring us our entertainment."

Gilbert was married four times. His first marriage, on August 26, 1918, was to Olivia Burwell, a native of Mississippi whom Gilbert had met after her family moved to California. They separated the following year and Burwell returned to Mississippi for a while. She filed for divorce in Los Angeles in 1921.

In February 1921, Gilbert announced his engagement to actress Leatrice Joy. They married in Tijuana in November 1921.[44] As Gilbert had failed to secure a divorce from his first wife and the legality of Gilbert and Joy's Mexican marriage was questionable, the couple separated and had the marriage annulled to avoid a scandal. They remarried on March 3, 1922. The marriage was tumultuous and, in June 1923, Joy filed for legal separation after she claimed that Gilbert slapped her face after a night of heavy drinking. They reconciled several months later. In August 1924, Joy, who was pregnant with the couple's daughter, filed for divorce. Joy later said she left Gilbert after discovering he was having an affair with actress Laurette Taylor.[47] Joy also claimed that Gilbert had conducted affairs with Barbara La Marr (with whom he had a romance before his marriage to Joy), Lila Lee and Bebe Daniels. Gilbert and Joy had a daughter, Leatrice Gilbert (later Fountain; 4 September 1924 – 20 January 2015). Joy was granted a divorce in May 1925.

In 1929, Gilbert eloped with actress Ina Claire to Las Vegas. They separated in February 1931 and divorced six months later. Gilbert's fourth and final marriage was on August 10, 1932, to actress Virginia Bruce, who had recently costarred with him on the MGM film Downstairs. The entertainment trade paper The Film Daily reported that their "quick" wedding was held in Gilbert's dressing room on the MGM lot while Bruce was working on another studio production, Kongo. Among the people attending the small ceremony were the head of MGM production Irving Thalberg, who served as Gilbert's best man; screenwriter Donald Ogden Stewart, whose wife Beatrice acted as Bruce's matron of honor; MGM art director and set designer Cedric Gibbons; and his wife, actress Dolores del Río. Bruce retired briefly from acting following the birth of their daughter Susan Ann; however, she resumed her career after her divorce from Gilbert in May 1934.

Before his death, Gilbert dated actress Marlene Dietrich as well as Greta Garbo. When he died, he had recently been slated to play a prominent supporting role in Dietrich's film Desire.

By 1934, alcoholism had severely damaged Gilbert's health. He suffered a serious heart attack in December 1935, which left him in poor health. Gilbert suffered a second heart attack at his Bel Air home on January 9, 1936, which was fatal.

A private funeral was held on January 11 at the B.E. Mortuary in Beverly Hills. Among the mourners were Gilbert's two ex-wives, Leatrice Joy and Virginia Bruce, his two daughters, and stars Marlene Dietrich, Gary Cooper, Myrna Loy, and Raquel Torres.

Gilbert was cremated and his ashes were interred at Forest Lawn Memorial Park, Glendale in Glendale, California.

Gilbert left the bulk of his estate, valued at $363,494 (equivalent to $6.7 million in 2019), to his last ex-wife Virginia Bruce and their daughter, Susan Ann. He left $10,000 to his eldest daughter Leatrice, and other amounts to friends, relatives and his servants.

For his contribution to the motion picture industry, Gilbert has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame at 1755 Vine Street. In 1994, he was honored with his image on a United States postage stamp designed by caricaturist Al Hirschfeld.