#to be fair i GUESS the silm takes place “before” the hobbit????

[inkskinned]

sometimes we just need someone to pay enough attention.

for the longest time i had been trying to read The Lord of The Rings. everyone had sung the praises for it, over and over. i'd seen clips of the movie and it seemed like it could be fun, but actually reading it was fucking horrible.

my parents had the omnibus - all the books squished into one big tome - and in the 4th grade i started sort of an annual tradition: i would start trying to read TLR and get frustrated after about a month and put it back down. at first i figured i was just too young for it, and that it would eventually make sense.

but every time i came back to it, i would find myself having the exact same experience: it was confusing, weird, and dry as a fucking bone. i couldn't figure it out. how had everyone else on earth read this book and enjoyed it? how had they made movies out of this thing? it was, like, barely coherent. i would see it on "classics" list and on every fantasy/sci-fi list and everyone said i should read it; but i figured that it was like my opinion of great expectations - just because it's a classic doesn't mean i'm going to like experiencing it.

at 20, i began the process of forcing myself through it. if i had to treat the experience like a self-inflicted textbook, i would - but i was going to read it.

my mom came across me taking notes at our kitchen table. i was on the last few pages of the first book in the omnibus, and i was dreading moving on to the next. she smiled down at me. only you would take notes on creative writing. then she sat down and her brow wrinkled. wait. why are you taking notes on this?

i said the thing i always said - it's boring, and i forget what's happening in it because it's so weird, and dense. and strange.

she nodded a little, and started to stand up. and then sat back down and said - wait, will you show me the book?

i was happy to hand it over, annoyed with the fact i'd barely made a dent in the monster of a thing. she pulled it to herself, pushing her glasses up so she could read the tiny writing. for a moment, she was silent, and then she let out a cackle. she wouldn't stop laughing. oh my god. i cannot wait to tell your father.

i was immediately defensive. okay, maybe i'm stupid but i've been trying to read this since the 4th grade and -

she shook her head. raquel, this is the Silmarillion. you've been reading the Silmarillion, not the lord of the rings.

anyway, it turns out that the hobbit and lord of the rings series are all super good and i understand why they're recommended reading. but good lord (of the rings), i wish somebody had just asked - wait. this kind of thing is right up your alley. you love fantasy. it sounds like something might be wrong. why do you think it's so boring?

[arofili]

fic writer tag game!!

i was tagged by @meztliel, thanks so much!!

AO3 name: starlightwalking

Fandoms: mostly Tolkien, my current main WIPs are Hobbit and LOTR fics, but i’m definitely mostly writing for the Silm these days, just lots of oneshots. i also dabble in Les Mis (at least once a year for Barricade Day!) and TAZ :)

Number of fics: 179??? how??? and i’m only gonna have more!! i’m not even done with B2MeM20 yet!!

Fic I spent the most time on: oh geez. that’s a tough one. this fic that i just posted, a Measse/Thuringwethil oneshot, i started in 2015?? but i left it sitting for 5 years, so i don’t think that counts. and i guess this drabble comp would be the next candidate, i started it in May 2016 and i last updated it in December 2019, but it’s...a drabble compilation, not an actual fic. so i think i actually spent the most time on my current WIPs, “Moonlight” and “Roads Go On,” both originally posted in May 2018 (jesus i was still in HIGH SCHOOL) and updated.....last year...... really i just haven’t had time to work on them, rip, though i think about them constantly. that’s what happens when you’re not in high school anymore i suppose....

Fic I spent the least time on: i mean, something from that drabble comp, probably. Or a B2MeM ficlet. probably this Glorfindel fic? I only remember writing it because I know it was written in a hurry at like 2am and my friend Moth @thishazeleyeddemon loved it and I was like “wow weird considering how little effort I put into it!”

Longest fic: Currently my post-BotFA Tauriel fic “Beneath the Stars” coming in at 49k! RGO and Moonlight both promise to be longer, but that would require me actually finishing either of them... but I love BtS so much that I’m glad it’s up there, it was a real labor of love <3

Shortest fic: “The Lay of Nienor” which I just wrote this past month! it’s only 238 words long - but it’s in verse, so that’s pretty respectable!

Most hits: My first BotFA fix it fic, “A Merrier Place,” with 5544 hits - to no one’s surprise by my chagrin. That was one of my first forays into Hobbit fic and I wrote it shortly after the movie came out, when people were most in need of a fix it AU. So I don’t blame them, really - but as I’m sort of setting out to rewrite my thoughts on what actually would’ve happened in an Everyone Lives AU in my current fic “Moonlight,” I wish people would pay more attention to that...

Most kudos: My TRSB19 Gigolas fic, “Love and Fear,” coming in with 155 kudos! this fic features art from @ginogollum and honestly, it deserves that love! (though, I think it does say a lot about what fandom wants that my only romo!gigolas fic has the most kudos of anything i’ve written, and all my qp!gigolas fics are much lower down the list... though perhaps I’m being unfair, considering my qp!Domadry fic “Wedding Blues” has the second-most kudos at 147.)

Most comment threads: My other TRSB19 fic, the Feanorian Redemption/Rebirth story “ATATYA” - that’s 71 comment threads and 147 total comments including replies!!! :) that makes me very very happy, because I wrote the 45,000 words of that fic in like...two weeks, about? it was INTENSE. and i’m very proud of that story, it’s got a lot of headcanons that I stand by, and I reference it frequently!

Most bookmarks: I added this category bc it felt weird it wasn’t here. Again, this prize goes to “Love and Fear” with 43 bookmarks!! woah :o second place is “A Merrier Place” with 35, and then the first fic I haven’t already mentioned is “The Naming Dame,” a HTTYD book fic with 30 bookmarks! I really should go back and update that fic, considering I wrote it before the last book came out and there’s new relevant information...

Total word count: I also added this one because I wanna brag!! I currently have 739,961 words archived on AO3 - holy shit!! adding the ~253k words I didn’t transfer over from FFN, that’s nearly a million words of fic! by the time i finish B2MeM I might push past that threshhold!!!!! that’s so exciting!!!! (fun fact about me: before Tolkien, my main fandom was...warrior cats...roughly 215k of that fic I left to gather dust on FFN is WC fic........)

Favourite fic I wrote: This isn’t fair, I can’t choose just one!! Ugh...well, if I must, I think it has to be “ATATYA”? This is subject to change, and “Beneath the Stars” is a close second, but “ATATYA” is my first real Silm longfic and I’m very proud of what I accomplished there, especially in such a short amount of time. Bonus: my favorite oneshot / favorite non-Tolkien fic is “and Love,” the aro Magnus fic I wrote for ASAW last year!

Fic you want to rewrite/expand on: I mean, I already talked about how “Moonlight” is kind of a rewrite of “A Merrier Place,” so...hm. Well, earlier today in an ask game I mentioned my fic “fell and fey” which is the Eol-living-in-a-fairy-tale fic I wrote just this past month. I started writing a longer, more poetic version of that fic that I’d like to return to and expand on someday, but I wanted to get that idea out of my head and B2MeM was a great excuse to do it, so I went with the shorter version instead - for now!

Share a bit of a WIP or a story idea you’re planning on:

I’ve got a couple WIPs right now... here’s a snippet of ch8 of “Roads Go On” (which i PROMISE i will have up soon...i know i’ve been saying that for more than year but i MEAN IT this time...)

“What do you mean we can’t take the freeway?” Boromir snapped.

“My way or the highway, he means,” Gimli quipped. “And, uh...not the highway, I guess.”

Mithrandir shot Gimli a withering glare. Though he only smiled, some part of him shriveled up inside. A wizard’s evil eye was nothing to mess with.

I think I’ve already shared that snippet in a different tag game, so here’s one more for the road - this one’s from “Cause and Consequence,” my Halenthir baby OC fic. This snippet comes from a chapter that won’t be out for awhile (and might undergo some serious revamping before then), and it’s set right after the Nirnaeth, with my OC (Ryndil) about to confront their dad.

“This is no place for mortals,” Maglor said flatly. “You do know who we are, don’t you, Rýndil of Brethil?”

A shiver ran down their spine. Seven tall elf-lords, gaunt and scarred and bloody in the aftermath of a disastrous battle. Maedhros, the eldest, was a shell of the glorious figure he’d been on the battlefield; they weren’t sure if he was even awake, his eyes were so glassy and unfocused. Grief, they supposed. They’d heard the rumors about him and the High King, after all.

Maglor, leading in his place, trembling despite the firmness in his golden voice. Celegorm, bitter and angry and mean despite his fair features. Curufin, his dark shadow, flint in his eyes and venom on his tongue. Amrod and Amras, mirroring each other in their distrustful glares. And yet despite the blood and dirt and pain, a light shone from each of them. These were men to be feared, men to be worshipped.

And then there was him. Caranthir the Dark. Rýndil’s father, the blood flowing through their veins, the reason they were here in the first place. Gaunt and red-faced, the weary host of his defeated brothers, he had scarcely stopped moving about and making room for them since they arrived.

As much as Rýndil was of the Haladin, as much as they were the child of Haleth, they were bound to this family and people also.

there’s a lot of grief-stricken angry feanorian banter that comes after this (including some Maedhros characterization that i’m Very Proud Of), and honestly? i might just go ahead and post the whole excerpt if anyone wants to read it (it’s about 1.3k words) since I’m fairly sure I will be changing a lot of it anyway, even if it’s only for tone.

~

looking at these stats, i’m both kind of sad and kind of proud. like, i’m proud of myself for what i’ve written, and proud of the relationships i’ve forged with readers and writers on AO3, but i know lots and lots of folks who have waaayyy higher stats than me. i know considering i write a lot of gen and aro fic that i’ll never be a Big Name Fan, but that doesn’t stop me from being jealous... sigh...

anyway, this was very very fun!!! i tag @buffintruder @himrings @mushroomwriter @zealouswerewolfcollector @hennethgalad @absynthe--minded @stormxpadme @morifiinwe @raisingcain-onceagain annnd any other writer who sees this and wants to do it!! no pressure of course, only do it if you want to :)

(and LMK in replies if you’re interested in seeing more of that Ryndil snippet!!)

[doegred-main]

If you could possess one single object that appears in the Silm/hobbit/Lotr/HoME, which one would it be? Here I am torn: on one hand I’d love to have the Palantìr to comunicate with others and see ahead during travels. On the other hand: the Silmaril would be an awesome energy source and scientific conundrum. Probably I would “settle” for a Silmaril. There are a lot of things you can do with a black body, even though I fear I would not like the “moral radar” placed on it by Varda at all.

As a mortal man arriving in Beleriand during the first age, would you have trusted the Eldar? I would have been incredibly fascinated and probably I would have given an arm and a leg to learn their technology, still I would have been very wary of their cultural perspective. At least of the one of the “very good guys”. I would have guessed that all the Noldor and Northern Sindar, were serious about defeating Melkor, but even in the best case scenario I would have seen a lot of possible problems arising from the afterward of a victory. A well respected vassal is still a vassal, especially when it is substituting its culture for the one of a more powerful people that claims to have seen and know more than any of my people could ever experience in their lifetime. I would have probably advocated for lending help to the Noldor in the war against Morgoth, quite vehemently once seen the situation in Beleriand and the Amlach scheme, but beyond that I would have guessed that even a victory would have meant an uncertain future for my kind and kept rather wary of them all. 

You are on a long errand and eventually find yourself in Lothlorien. Before you leave, you are given to choose between Miruvor or lambas bread. Which one do you take with you? Miruvoir, naturally! Even uncooked root vegetables taste better if you wash them out with great booze! 

Any opinion about the “petty-dwarves” and the way they were treated in Beleriand? The Petty Dwarves are a people that I feel a lot of sympathy for; they are the lowest of the low, the ones anyone feels entitled and justified to mistreat, thus I cannot help being rather fond of them despite their glaringly obvious flaws. I think that their position shows the ugly side of Khazad society. The dwarves are secretive and clannish, which leaves their exiled individuals (wether they are scapegoats or have definitely earned their punishment) without any help in the outside world, especially a feudal world like Beleriand. I think the history of the petty dwarves is very poignant because it is the story of the oppressed that aren’t “perfect” and “blameless”, it is the history of “guilty” people punished horribly and persecuted, left to be used by anyone as the convenient “victim”, to the point that the punishment itself ended up making them much worse than they were. Which only makes the petty dwarves more realistic and all the more worthy of a sympathy they will never be given in a world of moral absolutes like Tolkien’s. To feel for the “innocent lamb” is not praise-worthy, it is normal, what gives the measure of a person is how much they can see the injustice perpetrated on the ones who have committed their fair share of crimes. Sadly in Beleriand there is almost none that quite rises to this standard, except for (and even here: only up to a point) Tùrin.

What did you like the most the first time you read The Silmarillion? Wow.. it was so long ago! I was 15. I think the thing that I liked the most was the enormous scope of the story, the fact it was a history book of an inexistent world. I was positively overwhelmed by the multitude of people and histories, the glimpses of different cultures and their complexities. 

Do you think a Sauron-Smaug partnership could have been possible if the dragon hadn’t been destroyed? Any opinion about it? Possible? Yes, but depending on its goal and its scope. I do not doubt Sauron would have tried to make use of the dragon, after all Sauron is SMART, to the point that the only way he is beaten is by concocting a plan that relies on “providence” rather than tactics. Stiil, exactly because Sauron is smart, I do not think he would have honoured his agreement with the dragon to the bitter end if he had thought it too “limiting” of his own power; Sauron is not keen on loosing control. As for Smaug he would have undoubtedly seen the possible advantages in allying with Sauron, but he might also have seen the possible drawbacks thus he might not have thrown all of his lot with the Maia. I think an alliance could have been indeed possible, but its scope might have been limited, both because Smaug is an indolent slob, and because Sauron would not have liked to promise too much to the dragon knowing of its greed. Likely the dragon would have been “used” to completely vanquish the Khazad and people of Dale, but not much more. As a trump card Sauron already had the Witch King, who was of comparable power and completely under his control: a much safer bet.

Should we talk about the portrayal we get of Finrod in the debate with Andreth? Absolutely! Everything should be talked about XD. All jokes aside, I think that analysing his positions in the Antrabeth is paramount to understanding Finrod. I do not like them at all, but it is exactly because of them and a few other details that make his character definitely much more gray than the author probably intended, that I find Finrod interesting. To be completely frank I find the idea of ”St. Finrod the wandering hippie” absolutely boring and a disservice to a character that canonically has a side that doesn’t appear, in my opinion, as flatly cardboard-cut likeable or accepting of others as it might seem at first glance. Tolkien to me is all more fascinating and engaging because I do not share many his values on a fundamental level and seeing them exposed and argued for helped me grow as a person. I considered the position he presented, thought about it, and, no matter the conclusions I reached, I think my inner life was richer for it.

Can you share one headcanon about Celebrimbor and Narvi’s friendship? I ship them with the brightness of a thousand burning swan-ships. Despite really liking each other they are more often than not challenging each other’s abilities and theories. Even as they worked together they were adamant about having each their own lab and started their own private “underground war” by snaeking in each other’s work space and leaving “corrections” on each other’s notes. Which quickly escalated in the forged being used to craft new and better locks to protect their doors. The fight ended when Narvi found Tyelpe knelling on the floor in front of his new lock, desperately trying to pick it. Sadly his triumph was short-lived as he realised that even his own key was NOT getting the door open. Two hours passed like that: with Tyelpe insisting that his colleague had just made a lock impossible to open, and Narvi replying that Tyelpe had just “messed it up with his butcher-like attempts at finesse”, until they both capitulated and ended up getting roaring drunk together and taking turns axing down the door with Narvi’s ceremonial weapon after a solemn promise of never invading each other’s work-space anymore. Narvi gifted Tyelpe with the lock they recovered from the splinters as a “sign of peace” and to “prove the elf that you are never too old to be wrong”. Years and years after Narvi’s death, in the time when Annatar was becoming more and more shady even in his own eyes,  Tyelpe was playing around with the lock out of sheer nervousness and ended up dropping it. The impact dislodged a tiny piece of metal that had broken from Tyelpe’s lock-pick, unbeknownst to the elf. The lock opened immediately. Narvi adopted his young, brightest, dwarven apprentice and Tyelpe was adamant about “getting to be dad n.2 know the kid and be involved in his life”

Any thought about the idea of Maedhros wearing the dragon-helm? Why giving it to Fingon if it had already been given to him? Isn’t it rude? Is it even a good gift-idea? Here I’m biased.. XD Let’s say I do not think it was rude, but a sign of both friendship and a reminder to the Western Noldor that Himring had very important allies that knew how to make fire-proof armours, which the westerners had not and sorely needed. Smarmy gift, not exactly rude...

According to you, in The Silmarillion, which action is the most meaningful(/heartbreaking) token of loyalty? Bòr’s children and their people fighting to the end by the side of the Fëanorians.

If you could be fluent in one single tongue of Arda, and be clueless about all other languages, which one would you choose? (pick the age you prefer) I am already very much bothered by the fact I only know three languages and a half rather than “all of them”... Knowing only one would probably drive me to insanity. Yet: fair is fair,  I have to answer. I would like to be a Noldorin Quenya speaker that got accidentally shut in the scientific section of Formenos’ library. Imagine all the books, project, technology, and ideas that could be found there!

tagged by @atariince (thank you so much! <3) 

My stupid questions:

What do you think of Hurin and Huor’s last stand? 

Thoughts on Maeglin going missing for so long and then being just allowed in  with no questions asked?

Considering the events that ended WWII, Tolkien’s words in his preface to LOTR, and his “scientists on the slippery slope”:  do you feel any sympathy for Saruman?

If you were an Hobbit of the Shire would you have voted for Sam as a major? Why?

If you could visit one and only one location in Beleriand which one would it be? Explain

How much do you think Gondolin’s nostalgia for Tirion influenced the depiction of the Exiles as eager for a chance to go back to Valinor?

If you could either be Galadriel or Elrond which one would you choose? Would Celebrian like that? 

What do you think would have happened if “the Noldor had won the day” in the Nirnaeth?

First thought of Thorondor as Maedhros and then Fingolfin bled all over his plumage. 

Your favourite Caranthir’s moment, can either be your head-canon or canon.

Would you like to have the Gaffer Gamgee as your father in law? Why? 

tagging: @feanoriel, @eldochflamma, @hwarang, , @morgholoth @gultgull and whoever is interested and has not been tagged yet! 

[atariince]

Tagged by @vanimore​ (thanks :3)

1) Replace Beren with….?

Hm. Despite my pervasive dissatisfaction with the treatment of Beren and Luthien, I wouldn’t change Beren as a character. The tale would lose all significance. To me, the problem relies more on the (biased) way the characters are depicted, their unreal flawless behaviours, the readers’ blindness around it all, and the nonsensical aspects of the narrative. It’s not the tale itself, or the characters, that irks me , but the global approach.

2) Open your front door to see what realm of Middle-earth? 

That would greatly depend on the timeline! East Beleriand before the breaking of siege seems like a lovely place. Ossiriand, perhaps?  

3) Silmarillion series? Yay or Nay?

As an adaptation? Nay. Definitely NAY. (I’m still sore about the Amazon thing).

4) Sauron was…what he was, but would he actually have been pretty successful as a world ruler, had the War of the Ring gone the other way?

Good question… if by successful you mean being the tyrannical ruler of a kingdom of slaves, then yes, he would have, for a while at least. I cannot help thinking that he would eventually be consumed by the ring, if not physically (clearly, he doesn’t exactly need a body), at least spiritually. If Melkor was diminished by the fact that he spread his power through the matter of Arda, then I don’t see why it wouldn’t be the same for Sauron. It would take more time of course, the ring being considerably smaller, but I daresay it would eventually happen. Besides, I believe that an empire relying on one single oligarch, no matter how powerful they can be, is ultimately doomed to fall (Aren’t all empires doomed to fall?). Plus, Sauron’s distrust in his own servants and his lingering paranoia would not help, and even though his servants would not dare betray him, there would eventually be much unrest among the mortals (if not among the orcs). Would he end up exterminating every single slave? That’s a possibility. Would he end up as the king of an empty kingdom? Lol. I can totally see it. Perhaps in his eyes, that would be a form of success…. The extermination of “the swine”, “purging” the world (as many tyrants did), or something of the like. Anyway, it might take a long time, but I‘m convinced his empire would eventually fall (Look at the decadence of the Roman empire and its last emperors). And if he doesn’t destroy the ring by himself in his folly, I guess he would just become a sort of wraith himself, still powerful but unable to efficiently use his power.  

5) Rescue just one character from the Silmarillion - who and why? 

Curufin. Several reasons, but just imagine the Eregion events if Curufin had been alive (and eventually returned beside his son). Just imagine it. 

6) After the War of the Ring, one assumes Aragorn would have exterminated all the orcs he could find. Do you look on it as genocide or as in destroying vermin? 

That’s a very interesting question! I daresay it depends on what you do with Myths Transformed. In the case the orcs being “beasts of humanized shape” with no fëa, and with “just as much independence as have, say, dogs or horses…”, you may deduce that the utter destruction of the species would be more or less equivalent of the destruction, if not of vermin, at least of an entire animal species - which could be seen as morally blameworthy..  

Then we have this other draft in which orcs are said to be “capable of speech and craft” which ultimately place them out of the spectrum of simple “beasts”. On the other hand, they also tend to “bred and multiplied rapidly”, which may (from of a human perspective after the War of the Ring) require some sort of regulation? Especially if they are “so corrupted that they were pitiless, and there was no cruelty or wickedness that they would not commit […] doing evil deeds unbidden for their own sports” (that is, cruelty became a part of their very nature). Yet, let’s not forget that they are said to be “within the law”, which includes that “they must not be dealt with in their own terms of cruelty and treachery”. So, I think it unlikely for Aragron to attempt to exterminate the whole species.

I think the question would be to know if there could be, after the end of Sauron, a sort or non-aggressive cohabitation between human and orcs (which in the end would be impossible because there is no unified group of orcs)

In any case, I would be very cautious about these notions and to be fair, I’d rather not emit any conclusion, although it remains a fascinating thing to think about :3 the only conclusion that can be made is that it is a question of morals; can a powerful ruler exterminate a potential threat in the name of the “precautionary principle”, even if it includes bloodshed?

7) Do you think, honestly, that had you been alive then, that, if Sauron had offered you one of the Nine Rings you would have refused? 

Hm. Although it would have been difficult to convince me because I’m naturally distrustful and suspicious and I particularly don’t believe in uninterested altruism and generosity, I must admit that the offer of being “immortal” (lol) and powerful would have been very tempting. So, if Sauron was determined enough, I would have eventually accepted. 

8) As an Quendi, remain in Cuiviénen or go West?

The West would have been tempting. I’m curious. But as I said, I’m also very suspicious about people offering me stuff, be they Vala or not. :3 I guess I would have remained behind? I don’t know for sure.

9) Did you find the Silmarillion hard to read when you first read it?

Only the first chapters. This first reading was enchanting and fascinating, but I struggled a bit. After the theft of the Silmarils it became much easier. Then I cried.

10) One sentence from Maedhros after Fingon rescued him from Thangorodhrim

“Why?”

11) One thought from Mairon when Melkor returned to Angband with the Silmarils 

“Why?”

My questions:

If you could possess one single object that appears in the Silm/hobbit/Lotr/HoME, which one would it be? 

As a mortal man arriving in Beleriand during the first age, would you have trusted the Eldar?

You are on a long errand and eventually find yourself in Lothlorien. Before you leave, you are given to choose between Miruvor or lambas bread. Which one do you take with you?

Any opinion about the “petty-dwarves” and the way they were treated in Beleriand?

What did you like the most the first time you read The Silmarillion?

Do you think a Sauron-Smaug partnership could have been possible if the dragon hadn’t been destroyed? Any opinion about it?

Should we talk about the portrayal we get of Finrod in the debate with Andreth?

 Can you share one headcanon about Celebrimbor and Narvi’s friendship?

Any thought about the idea of Maedhros wearing the dragon-helm? Why giving it to Fingon if it had already been given to him? Isn’t it rude? Is it even a good gift-idea?

According to you, in The Silmarillion, which action is the most meaningful (/heartbreaking) token of loyalty?

If you could be fluent in one single tongue of Arda, and be clueless about all other languages, which one would you choose? (pick the age you prefer)

Tagging: @silverartisan @doegred-main @curufinwefeanaro @nihthelm  @putrid-tongue @the-mirador

[vardasvapors]

@berrysphase replied to your post:                   berrysphase replied to your post:                ...                

   So, perhaps oddly, I agree with your statement about the wholesale stuff as concerns the greater legendarium, but not LOTR?  In LOTR, considered within its own boundaries, I come away with the deeply uncomfortable sense that the restoration of Gondor’s kingship, the mystic strength in the true line of Elendil, the high and fading virtues of Numenor (transmitted in the germline), are all unquestioned good.  

   but in the greater legendarium all these things are complicated and much more nuanced, especially the colonialism issue re Numenor.  

   eventually there are topics I just can’t think too hard about (especially in-world Valar-related morality questions and the infernal question of Numenor and how far its colonialism is ‘justified’) or it all falls apart and I have to go lie down – I mean, there’s a lot of quicksand    

   I guess what I am saying is *hands* it would be very illuminating and interesting to hear about one of your lines! because to me they are either not clear, or only clear if I carefully avoid looking at them    

OH YEAH THAT IS A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE. I think that would definitely qualify as a line -- in my opinion, LOTR is undermined as a story if Aragorn’s reign is Actually A Bad Thing, because the alternative-subplot that springs into existence under that reading is....uh....I guess “boring pointlessness tacked onto to a story that’s actually about Frodo etc” is a good way of putting it. But otoh the, like, Actual Lines of Dialogue The Characters Say in support of said Aragorn subplot are also.....what’s a better way of saying ‘irredeemably racist’? So it’s not like just “ignore it! it’s fantasy!” or some shit, but it IS one of those things that for me (though other people might feel totally differently) is much more satisfying to reconcile, rather than wholesale resist or overturn.

Anyway this might be making a mountain out of a molehill-sized solution, but I’m too tired to edit myself down in length so:

(uh.....before the cut....heads up i wrote this at top speed without testing for argumentative rigorousness/accuracy so.....fair warning)

Actually I think this is a much more easily fanwankable problem than some? Mostly because, imo, Aragorn’s character arc and the moral worth of his arc already HAS two alternative justifications right in canon! One is prophetic, and essentially is a 90%-blind prediction of the sequence of events that makes up the plot of LOTR. “either you will become greater than any of your ancestors since Elendil or fall into darkness with all your kin,” says Ivorwen and Elrond and Gandalf. The other is the whole Heir of Isildur renewal of the ~pure bloodline of kings bullshit, which doesn’t lend a single whit to the legitimacy of Aragorn as a person or to the readers opinion of him -- but it matters a lot to the in-universe Dunedain characters of Arnor and Gondor, including Aragorn himself. It’s the whole justification for them ushering him through the loophole and onto the throne. So I’d say, if you want to read Aragorn’s reign and arc as worthwhile - which I do too, because otherwise that subplot of LOTR is a vastly inferior and duller story at best, if not a complete and utter waste of time at worst - one could always go for the idea that the reason it has worth doesn’t need to be the same reason - the True Numenorean King stuff - that the characters of LOTR think it has worth.

Like, the first step is, LOTR’s timespan is so short. REALLY short. Substantively, one could just..pick another 6 month timespan in the legendarium, any 6 month timespan that overlaps a major political shift. or a 120 year timespan too, if you’re thinking Aragorn’s whole reign, in the Silmarillion. in the Akallabeth. in the unfinished tales. LOTR is a blip, time-wise -- it’s a personal story that intersects with the Silm-tier stuff for a brief, if pivotal, skip of time, and incorporates the brief, hindsight-less impressions of the people alive at that moment of time right into the reader’s POV, in a way that the Silm doesn’t do.

So when taking into account how limited the timeline and POV of LOTR characters are, comparatively speaking, I think of Aragorn’s crowning and the restoration of the line as not “inherently good,” but good because it happened to be the right thing at that one period of time.

I definitely think that...even the text, not just my headcanon, very strongly implies that the reason Aragorn’s king bid turned out successfully is because he lived most of his adult life with that prophecy over his head, and therefore practiced all his life to become an actually genuinely good king -- the whole bloodline/heirship stuff is just kind of...justification, in terms of personal/family/numenorean honor, and political plausible deniability -- Aragorn’s sincerely-felt path and reasoning to get there that isn’t just “either you’ll become king or everyone is doomed, because the future says so!” + “here’s a legal loophole to become king!”

And, I think, the in-universe reason the people of Gondor supported Aragorn becoming king is partly because coincidentally Denethor and Boromir were dead and Faramir didn’t reject him; partly because he had the bloodline loophole excuse; and partly (mostly) because everyone was so impressed with how he helped save the world.

But the reason Aragorn managed to wind up in a position to help save the world, and make the right choices to help save the world, is mostly that he was the type of brave and selfless and sincere person who would sacrifice his dream in order to rescue Merry and Pippin, or sacrifice his life to get Sauron to attack him and disregard Frodo and Sam. The sort of person who understands how much worth his people have, who knows what is deckchair-rearranging and what is a beam of true hope be it ever so slender, who accepts the sheer smallness and simplicity of what he needs to do for the greater good, and who respects and can influence his people enough to insist that they accept and understand all of this as well. Which are, like, actually good qualities in a king!

And the whole reason he became such a good person is....because he strove to be so, and because the people around him believed in him and helped him become so, and because of his and their own personal desire to restore the kingship and glory of his people. Uh. sorry. I already just said that.

It’s a circular thing. The myopic tribal hereditary reasons the characters/narrative assigns bloodline-related worth and authority to Aragorn have jack shit to do with the actual reasons he has real moral worth and earned authority, but his own priorities and desires that led to him developing that worth and authority are myopic and tribal and hereditary too.

So I think this specifically isn’t a case of “either Aragorn’s kingship is good because it is a restoration of the line of Elendil, or it isn’t good because the restoration of the line of Elendil is a morally vacuous cause.” It’s a case of causal connections that are really important but are far more circumstantial than the characters (or the narrative) acknowledges -- people interpret the restoration of the kingship as something Racially And Normatively Appropriate and Special And Right, which...is a) lmao plz, but also b) the Numenoreans and the line of Isildur specifically DO have evidence-based racially-based advantages. It’s just that those advantages don’t confer any inherent worth of any kind --- Aragorn’s bloodline just happened, in this case, to be SUPER USEFUL, because it’s ancient fairy-tale magic that lets him do SUPER USEFUL things in the context of weaponizing Middle Earth’s lingering scraps of fairy tale magic against Middle Earth’s lingering scrap of fairy tale horror. It lets him troll Sauron with a palantir that he could properly use -- due the fact that the Palantir DOES operate on ridiculous ancient morally vacuous bloodline-magic. Or lets him make the oathbreaker ghosts help him out with the corsairs, because the oathbreaker ghosts too, are ancient lingering equally morally vacuous Soulbinding Promise Magic. The whole concept of the Restoration of the Line of Elendil IS, of course, a morally vacuous cause on its own, as anything other than an in-universe stamp of political legitimacy -- but it appears to also have been an essential in-universe motivation and tool for getting the characters into the places they needed to be, in order for the intricately-woven web of events that make up LOTR to come out in the wash the way it did.

For the in-universe characters, saying that there’s something Inherently Good about the renewal of the line of kings and stuff is actually just....it’s only important to them. It’s this stopgap period, post-Ring-Destruction: re-righting the boat and kind of having this adjustment period of fairy-tale magic to kind of ease people from the pre-ring destruction world where there are dark lords and elves, to the post-ring-destruction world. Everyone in-universe goes “rah rah this isn’t just good because circumstances lined up in such a way so that it was good, as prophesied, it’s Totally Also Inherently Good independent of circumstances.” And it isn’t. At all. But it makes sense why they think that, and want to think that, and why the real explanation would not be sufficient for them. The idea that Aragorn’s one and only world-saving action was distracting Sauron from his destroyers, and that the only reason Sauron was destroyed was because of three hobbits and a mixed handful of coincidence and grace swirling together in an Augustinian whirlpool, is not a super crowdpleasing national myth.

And then, the period after he becomes king DOES imo involve like, a bunch of colonial-reminiscent shit that kind of plays into the people’s expectations and view of themselves -- the racial superiority and suggestions of imperialism-flavored actions regarding all the vague mentions throughout the early 4th age timeline of quelling rebellions in various corners of the world (though imo these are not as conclusive or devoid of wiggle-room as some people interpret them). And I REALLY DISLIKE THIS PART because I’m perennially like...yo, what a massive wasted opportunity there Tolkien...because the irony of Aragorn the hereditary king in exile being restored in such a roundabout way that has so little to do with his heirship is a plotline that would be SO MUCH BETTER to acknowledge and focus on than the bald OMG Heir Of Isildur The True King With Pure Ancestry Has Come!!! thing that happens in canon with only a tiny bit of wink-winking about how much dumb luck it actually was. It would have made a really wonderful story!

In fact, I occasionally do wonder -- from the Appendices and the Prologue of LOTR, the supposed “real” “historical” book which the in-universe character of “JRR Tolkien: Not An Author, Only A Translator” translated, is purported to be a copy of a copy of the Red Book of Westmarch that was edited and translated by the scribe Findegil of Gondor, as copied from Pippin’s copy, of Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam’s copy. And one can imagine it’s not too big a stretch that Frodo and Sam might have been more on-the-money regarding Aragorn and the whole kingship restoration plotline in their original story, but Findegil obscured their insights a bit -- even just from good-faith well-intended biased interpretation due to his understanding of Gondor’s renewal histories.

But still....even with all the undertones and overtones of the restoration of old colonial stuff -- does that mean restoration of old colonial shit in perpetuity? I don’t think THAT’S a necessary extrapolation. For one, imo there’s no testament of proportionality. Elements of recurrences of old colonial shit seem to have been present! -- but for how long, how impactful or destructive, compared to how much tables-turning revolutionary awesome genuine improvement stuff, given everything Sauron had been doing? I mean could be shittier than anything like is often is IRL, but this is as outsode of RL as you get. So. A drop amid a flood? Could be. Who knows? Not much is specified, but not much is precluded either. You can fill in that 120 year gap with almost anything. If someone wanted to fill it with some fantasy of a historical-fiction Realpolitik aesthetic, instead of actually making up something new from the unlimited amount of creative potential conferred by an ahistorical post-dark-lord fantasy setting, that’s legit, but it’s still just conjecture.

Going back up 5 paragraphs to when I thought this was going to be a short answer (LOL) -- 120 years is both very long AND very short -- i.e., 120 years is a nose-to-the-ground view vis-a-vis Silmarillion times, but otoh vis-a-vis RL timelines, there’s just so much TIME and room for....i mean 120 years ago today was 1897? Before World War I? How vastly has world and domestic policy has changed since then? Or like...pick from your choice of other 120 year periods in pre-modern history too, if that’s not a good comparison. Even if there isn’t much concrete reliable evidence, there’s still a lot of room, even before Aragorn’s death - but even more room after it! - for the people of the Reunited Kingdom to potentially, if you so choose, have their day in the sun comforting themselves about how great they are and how their ancestral royal line is restored, and then just slowly move on, change, grow, progress, decide some of their earlier ideas were dumb, reverse themselves in various political and foreign policy arenas (like they had already started to do in some cases during the LOTR timeline), quietly purge themselves of their racist bullshit  -- over the course of a few generations, as is the way of mortal realms. And most importantly, to finally let go of the past, because they’ve been able to taste the satisfaction of a fairy tale, and have come through it, and their children’s children have now lived to see a time where they don’t need it.

(This assumes that The New Shadow is non-canon. Which. HELL YES. It is  fucking non-canon, because it’s stupid and even Tolkien thought it was depressing and mean-spirited, which is seriously saying something.)