#timeline: evanuris.

[blightworn]

[ passing confidence ]  –  for the sender’s muse brush their fingers against the receiver’s muse’s hand, too scared to hold their hand. ( from june! )

@juneforged | the intimacy of hands: always accepting!

being so close to june was intoxicating; dirthamen tried to avoid it as much as they could, but they had a sneaking suspicion he was aware of this effort and took every opportunity he could to come within close range. though he never got close enough. shoulders stiffen slightly as june goes over the intricacies of his latest invention, mechanical fingers tracing over the smooth wood and dirthamen can only imagine it is their face.

june pauses, ever-changing eyes appraising them, and dirthamen feels like a lamb led to slaughter for a moment, realization again dawning on them that they are, in fact, corporeal. the feeling passes quickly as it came when fingers graze against their own-- eyes snap to his and the moment has been over for a second now and dirthamen still can't breathe--.

" it's... it's beautiful, as always, fenorain. "

[suranamellblackwood]

okay but why DOES solas have naked statues of ghilan'nain holding hands with andruil

taash has apparently determined that he's not smuggling it to fund the rebellion

[lavellaned]

Still sad about how all of the ancient lore and mysteries that we have been teased and have speculated about since fucking 2009 were primed to be connected or expanded on in veilguard and instead of doing any of that it was all just retconned

[hoboblaidd]

this is still making me laugh five minutes later so it's coming out of the replies

[theodosiani]

Bunny just being this waifish 20 year old but also being the wise woman leading the chasind stand against the 6th blight in the south and learning how to kill people in their sleep? Good shit. Very ‘look into my eyes’ living up to her big brothers legacy. Gotta get her a cool hat.

[0alix0]

Overusage of Lore

a lot of people tend to say that bioware put little to no lore into Veilguard, and i might be on a minority on this to me it's way too much and way too shallow

The entire game feels like writers just scream at you "Look at all the magical thing we have!! So we have Titans! And Evanuris! And Illuminati Those Across the See! And-- are you listening? You better listen cuz there are more! We have Shadow Dragons! We have Griffons! We--"

OMG calm down it's not a fucking Warcraft

the best thing in DA was the way it beautifully showed real life issues through the lens of medieval fantasy world.

The dalish weren't so fascinating because they had an entire language made for them and pretty tattoos. They were fascinating because they were enslaved, fought for freedom, then got their land taken away YET STILL continued to fight for survival, for their cultural identity, their children and their children's children, for freedom. Literally combination of native american's and jewish history. Because despite having one goal they all had different approach and opinion about other of their kin: city elves (those disconnected from their culture) and half-elves ("can they be considered elves?" "should they be allowed to be a part of dalish?").

The city elf origin wasn't so memorable because every npc had a backstory with a length of bible. It was memorable because it was the most obvious analogy on racial oppression, segregation, colonialism and fetishism in the entire franchise. Because it had the guts to actually show in details the horrors of these things.

Broodmothers weren't so horrifying because it's a female mixture of jubba hutt and a fucking pudge from dota with a detailed explanation their anatomy. They were horrifying because they were paralleling a very real misogyny, mistreatment, the way how women in some countries are seen as nothing but a walking uteruses, where the only thing they're good for is to give birth

AND bioware doubled it while doing the same thing with Orzammar, cast system & Rica!

The Circles weren't so interesting because we've got dozens of pages in WoT explaining their hierarchy/fraternities. No, they were interesting because it was literally a bunch of medieval GULAGs with a function of a mental hospital, it showed what mistreatments happen there, the abuse, child abduction and enforcement of religion.... And from the side of templars it was a discussion about professional deformation, addictions and the way high ranking people abuse those to control their underlings.

..... And you know, if we were back in origins, griffons, for example, would've probably been used as a parallel on irl eco terrorism. it might've been about how Wardens despite their good nature unintentionally bonded the general association of the entire animal species to their order and abused this connection to the point when the species was beyond preservation!

and btw, then that decision in davrin's quest would actually had any meaning, instead of throwing wardens into mud (again) and turning isseya into a villain for no fkn reason.

lore is only good as long as it's used for purpose, when it has things to discuss, not just exist

i don't fucking care about titans/evanuris/and other shit because they're just a 30 pages long article in codex and WoT trying to explain magic and write DA timeline almost to a fucking mesozoic era. it's BORING. Get me emotionally invested, then i'll care

[thebaldursmouthgazette]

Andraste, The Chant and The Maker

So this is a full overview of my theories and opinions on the life of Andraste, and the identity of the entity known as “The Maker”. It’s kinda long but I’ve tried to arrange things in a clear way.

The general gist is that Andraste was a half dwarven OGB with the soul of Dumat, who connected with a titan.

I unfortunately can’t post screenshots of all my sources as I’m on mobile and have a 10 image limit, but much of it comes from both volumes of World of Thedas and the rest can be found on the wiki if you read up on the relevant topic.

According to World of Thedas, Andraste was born in -203 ancient, to a Ciriane woman named Brona, and Elderath, who was a chieftain of a large tribe in northern Ferelden. She had a half sister on her father’s side named Halliserre, who died under mysterious circumstances. She had visions and dreams throughout her life of an entity she called The Maker, and later met an entity she believed to be this Maker, sometime before calling an exalted march on tevinter at the age of 23. Around ten years into the war with Tevinter, her husband betrayed her to Tevinter and they burned her at the stake. Her ashes were collected and taken back to Ferelden, where they were kept in a mountain with a very high concentration of lyrium.

The first part of this theory concerns Andraste’s mother, Brona, whose shade we meet in origins. Brona was a member of the Ciriane tribe, who lived in what is now Orlais. The Ciriane tribe were a huge part of the forces gathered by the grey wardens to fight Dumat in the Battle of the Silent Plains where he was finally defeated in -203 ancient, the same year Andraste was born. We don’t have any information about whether Brona took part in this battle herself, but we know she was a warrior, as Andraste gifted her sword to Shartan, so I would say it’s definitely possible and maybe even likely, as Dumat had been terrorising the world for nearly 200 years at this point and I feel like probably most if not all warriors of the Ciriane were helping in at least some way. The World of Thedas timeline places Andraste’s birth after the death of Dumat.

The timelines could very easily align for Brona to be in the early stages of pregnancy at the battle to defeat Dumat, and potentially near him when he died. The warden who sacrificed their life to kill Dumat was never identified, as he killed several wardens in his death throes. So it’s entirely possible for none of them to have died absorbing his soul and for the fetal Andraste to have absorbed it instead. Not to mention, when Morrigan tells us about the ritual, she heavily implies that what she is suggesting has been done before. Now, I don’t think that Brona did a ritual to capture Dumats soul, but I think it’s possible for circumstances to have completely coincidentally aligned perfectly to allow the same effect. In this way, the origins ritual was only so complicated because it was a deliberate recreation and certain variables had to be controlled.

If this is the case, then we can look to Kieran to know what effect this would have had on Andraste. Old god Kieran is a strange child, who has strange knowledge of the world’s secrets and understanding of truths of the universe, and talks of dreams that are implied to have some significance. Andraste also behaved strangely, going into trance like states and talking of strange auras. She also had visions from an early age, which she believed to be of an entity she referred to as the maker. This does sound an awful lot like Kieran, except without Morrigan to help make sense of things.

This, I believe, is where a lot of the parts of the chant we now know to be mistellings of elven history come from. The soul of Dumat is a fragment of one of the Evanuris, likely Dirthamen according to Bellara’s notes, and we know these fragments can carry memories. The visions Andraste had from an early age were fragments of memories of the evanuris, the “Maker” in these visions a melding of several evanuris and their actions. The Canticle of Threnodies tells of the makers creation of the spirits, who he calls his “firstborn”, and the building of a beautiful golden city for them to live in. It then tells of him making his second born (physical people), with the fades “living flesh”. It also tells of spirits growing jealous of the physical people, and wanting to rule over Earth as gods (the tevinter old gods, to be precise) and being cast into the earth as a result.

The canticle of Threnodies we know comes from transcribed retellings of Andraste’s visions.

Knowing all this, we can easily see these verses being fragments of Dumats memories being filtered through Andraste’s interpretation, and then several retellings and translations. In these visions, “The Maker” is not one entity, but rather all of the evanuris and potentially any other powerful elven mage. Andraste had fragmented visions of some of the key events of elven history, the taking of physical form, the building of glorious cities, the desire to become like gods, the imprisonment in the earth, and the separation of veil and unchanging world and interpreted them as being the actions of one supreme god.

Another fun section of the chant of light is the canticle of Exaltations, which relays a prophecy of the makers return given to the founder of Orlais, Kordillus Drakon (also of the Ciriane, though unclear if that’s significant), supposedly by Andraste. The prophecy itself outlines several portents of the makers return, each seeming to align with events in the games since origins, with the final part outlining the Maker returning in tevinter, with proclamations eerily similar to Elgar’nans dialogue at the end of veilguard (and andraste wielding a shining sword). It’s unclear exactly where this prophecy came from, but it’s clearly from a source that knew what it was talking about and in my mind it further cements this idea that the visions of the Maker were in fact visions of several prominent elves, in this case Elgar’nan.

Later in life, Andraste meets an entity identified as “the maker” and speaks to him. She can’t be speaking to any of the evanuris (except Mythal, and while it is a popular theory that Mythal is who she spoke to I don’t actually believe this anymore. For several reasons, including that it would have come up by now and also I don’t see why Mythal would present herself as a man) so she cannot be speaking with any of the individuals responsible for events she previously attributed to the maker, but she clearly speaks with something. I believe that something to be a titan, and I believe that Andraste has significant dwarven heritage.

Which brings me on to her father, Elderath. We know Elderath was a chieftain of a tribe in northern Ferelden (likely the Clayne). We know he had a daughter with his alchemy advisor, and that was Andraste’s half sister Hallissere. We don’t meet his shade in origins, and thus, have no idea what he looks like.

Halliserre, Elderaths daughter with the unnamed alchemy advisor, died young under interesting circumstances. Andraste was the only witness, and all we know is that it was violent, and Hallisere was found in a burned clearing, with “wounds beyond weapons”. This seems pretty obviously an accidental magical discharge by an untrained mage. It calls to mind the stories various mages in the series tell of how they discovered their powers. It seems extremely obvious that either Andraste or Hallissere was a mage and that caused Hallisseres death. Except that nobody at the time believed that to be the case. The Ciriane blamed spirits, the Alamarri blamed rival tribes. Why would they not suspect one of the girls? Could there perhaps have been a reason why nobody would have suspected either girl of being a mage? Like, for example, their father being a dwarf, or half dwarven, and therefore they themselves being part dwarven? We don’t really know how the dwarven lack of magic works in individuals who are part dwarven and part human or elven, but one would assume that the more dwarven ancestry someone has, the less likely they are to be a mage.

There’s plenty of precedent for members of Alamarri tribes to have dwarven heritage. In fact, Andraste is the only historical Alamarri figure who neither marries a dwarf nor has explicit dwarven heritage. Tyrdda Bright-Axe marries the dwarven prince Hendir, and their descendant Morrighan’an has a child with Luthias Dwarfson of the Clayne tribe, who is himself married to a dwarven princess and also likely has dwarven heritage himself, given his name and short stature. It would not have been unusual for an Alamarri chieftain to have significant dwarven heritage, and if Andraste and Halliserre were significantly part dwarven that would explain why nobody suspected them of being mages. And Andraste being an OGB of Dumat would explain why she had magic anyway, and also why she later blamed Hallisseres death on the tevinter old gods.

The chant of light has an awful lot of references to mountains, wellsprings and songs. All of which are associated with the titans. The passages which describe Andraste’s meeting with the maker are particularly suspect. Andraste meets with the maker while on a mountain, after he answered her call (a beautiful song, according to chantry lore). The maker is described as “greater than mountains” and as “the wellspring of all” (there are two other uses of the word wellspring in the series: the location of the titans heart in the descent, and a line said by the slaughter of the pillars revenant in veilguard), and he takes Andraste to a pool deep beneath the ground and describes it as “the abyss, the well of all souls.” We now know these locations to be structures present deep within in the heart of a titan. In fact the abyss itself is deep within a titan, it is the other sky that dwarves are scared of falling into.

In this meeting he says the following to andraste:

"None now remember.

Long have they turned to idols and tales

Away from My Light, in darkness unbroken

The last of My children, shrouded in night."

At first glance, with the context of the chantry, this seems to be about the people of Thedas being metaphorically hidden from the makers light. But this all applies to the dwarves and their relationship with the titans.

The dwarves do not remember the titans. They have turned to idols (paragons) and tales (stories of the stone, divorced from their true meaning). They live in the deep roads, in darkness unbroken and shrouded in night, after fleeing to tunnels beneath the earth after the titans were sundered. The slaughter of the pillars revenant in veilguard has the line “in darkness long lamenting”. This is not a creator god sad he is no longer worshipped, this is a titan grieving the loss of connection with the dwarves, its children.

So, Andraste was part dwarven and had the soul of Dumat, gained by her mother being near Dumat when he died while pregnant with Andraste. This gave her visions of the past she did not fully understand, and interpreted the monumental events as being the actions of a singular deity. Later in life she communicated with a titan, who she perceived to be this singular deity, as such a powerful entity was completely unknown to society at the time, and what else could it have been but the god she thought she had seen visions of her whole life. This made her belief she was the voice of the maker, and caused her to declare war on tevinter, which ultimately led to her betrayal by Maferath, and her execution.

After her execution her ashes are gathered and taken back to Ferelden. Where they are interred in a cavern full of lyrium. Her final resting place is deep within the body of a titan. And she may or may not get reincarnated as a dragon I’m not entirely sure what’s up with that.

[mythalism]

there is a bit of a discourse on twitter about whether Mythal was a slave owner. What is your take on this? I’ve seen arguments that her vallaslin was a mark of honour and she “protected her people”. But also if that was the case, why would Solas remove his marks and propose to do the same to Lavellan?

I wonder if that’s another evidence of her character being sanitised in DAV compared to lore, revealed in DAI

it has genuinely never occurred to me that mythal would not be a slave owner. we know the evanuris practiced slavery. we know the only one who did not was fen'harel, as a result there is no fen'harel vallaslin. there is however a mythal vallaslin both presently and anciently, worn by felassan, abelas, and all of the temple sentinels at the least, and by solas himself once if you assume that is the meaning of cole's comment about him burning her off his face, which i do make that assumption. solas says mythal "was the best" of the evanuris, but that is an extremely low bar. we also now know that she was a driving force behind the war with the titans and their tranquilization and the destruction of the dwarven empire, and she admits to using solas as a weapon of war. i am not sure why any of these things would lead anyone to believe that she is morally above enslaving people. we have literally met the people she enslaved. whether or not they were "devoted" or "willing" (ew) is irrelevant in the context of her power as an evanuris.

i think perhaps dragon age was gearing up pre-veilguard to explore the vallaslin much more in depth however it ended up erasing it completely so we will never know. its possible that vallaslin had multiple meanings, and did not always denote enslavement but could denote enslavement depending on the circumstances. my own understanding pre-vg was that the vallaslin probably interacted with other factors, such as class/wealth, power, and personal favoritism, to varying degrees of personal and political agency so that not every person with mythal's vallaslin would have the same exact experience. solas's experience clearly was unique and we see that in the way that their relationship is presented in his murals, and how they continue to have a relationship even after he has removed his own (assuming thats the timeline and not that they just completely retconned him having vallaslin in the first place lol). but just because solas sees mythal in a forgiving light (sometimes, he goes back and forth, which does make sense considering his complex feelings about her) does not mean mythal was, objectively, that way. its pretty heavily implied that he had major rose colored glasses on for her, and its likely he only saw a certain side of her. we can probably assume that elgar'nan saw a very different one. we have a lot of different perceptions of her from different sources, and different literal fragments of her personality. we also know she changed quite drastically overtime and was corrupted from benevolence into retribution. it is difficult to say with certainty what she was like because the game does not tell us.

however enslavement is enslavement and i think we should be frank about it even if veilguard isnt interested in touching on it. "but she was a good slave-owner!" is a dangerous sentiment reflective of real life, anti-abolition arguments during the american civil war that revisionist racists and white supremacists still use today and i think people should take great care not to espouse the same, even in the context of a fantasy world.

[broodwoof]

Inquisition's "Bad Future" and its Relationship to Solas' POV

please do not add hate to this post, bring up the art book, or bring up the books/comics. thank you!

if you decide to recruit the mages to help seal the breach, then the inquisitor and dorian will be plunged into a "bad future", going forward a year

there is no way to proceed without "resetting" the timeline, without putting it back to the moment that they were flung into the future. but during the bad future, leliana says - accurately - that while dorian and the inquisitor see this almost as a bad dream, a thing to be undone, that it was real. their hurt was real. their joy was real. they existed in that year

and we as players are made complicit in erasing the entirety of that existence

this puts us in solas' position! this shows us his fundamental perspective!

he woke a year before the events of inquisiton, to a world that he, too, felt needed to be "reset". like the inquisitor and dorian, he saw the current state of the world as an intolerable deviation from what should be, and was willing to sacrifice people - as the inquisitor and dorian did - in order to put it back on the right path

granted, the world was in great peril in this bad future. the inquisition itself was destroyed. maybe many of those in southern ferelden would have welcomed the chance to have this all "undone"...

but what of those beyond? somewhere, a child was born in that year, and then erased. not killed, to be remembered, but fully erased from the course of history, made into something that never existed. somewhere in the world, someone did something that meant a great deal to them or to others in that year: again, that action was erased. they cannot be remembered, it cannot be remembered, it is gone

so, did the world need to be reset? i mean... that was probably the safest bet, if you want the world itself/the cultures as a whole/the people as a whole to have the best chance of survival

which, again, is kinda solas' thing. he's not out here just mercilessly killing for its own sake. he openly resents having to kill anybody, even enemies, although resenting it has certainly not stayed his hand

solas thought it would be necessary, which is something i've talked about before:

Solas and Veilfall: Why it Was Necessary... Until it Wasn't

Solas and Veilfall; Not a Hero, Not a Selfish Monster

"People are always dying. It is what they do." (contains an analysis of this bad future timeline as well!)

and what he was doing was necessary - perhaps not all of it (was tearing down the veil necessary or desired? it's unclear!) - but certainly dealing with the evanuris was necessary. even flemythal, who discouraged him from tearing down the veil, admitted that dealing with the "gods" was a necessary action. even the veilguard believe that what solas did in the time of arlathan was just and right

in the bad magic future, we are solas. we are waking to a world rendered horrible, a miserable experience compared to that which we knew. but, really, what all do we see? redcliffe castle. we hear about more, but it's just hearsay. in-game, it clearly doesn't take more than a day to erase that year in its entirety

what if the corruption was contained? what if there was an effort being mounted against it, one which might have been successful? what if all that remained of ferelden and orlais had joined forces? what if the dwarves had regained their ancestral magic somehow? what if spirits freely interacted with the world outside of this area of prime corruption?

hell, put all that aside: what if the corruption was false? what if everything we experience in that bad future was the work of a demon, or of alexius himself? what if having the inquisitor and dorian "undo" what he had done was his final effort to save felix? what if he created a horrific showpiece that presented a nightmare as reality and forced them to change it back?

is any of that likely? probably not! but the thing is: the inquisitor and dorian do not and cannot know

just as solas did not and could not know... in the beginning!

had his initial plan succeeded, he would have been as willing as the inquisitor and dorian to take that step. as confident that, even with the costs, it was right, it was just, it was necessary

i'm pretty sure more people do the mage route than the templar route. but whatever the analytics may say, certainly many people have done the mage route and have played through this entire narrative, up to and including erasing it and then continuing on with the game

and, narratively, it prepares us for solas' announcement. and it draws a comparison between the inquisitor and dorian and solas himself

and the thing is... the inquisitor and dorian remember that. as two individuals opposed to solas in some manner in canon, they also have to carry forward the knowledge that, in somewhat similar circumstances, they made the choice that solas tried to make. it is entirely likely that they bury this awareness, that they cover it, that they try to forget... but their actions remain, and the unknown cost remains, even though it has been erased

[roarrrgame]

I read Tevinter Nights and found that Solas said “you are free” when he freed a wisp in there, too. I realised Solas said “you are free” to Lavellan after removing her Vallaslin, as well as to the ancient slaves he freed and removed Vallaslin for.

Removing Lavellan’s Vallaslin was perhaps the first time he’d done so since he woke up. I wonder what he was thinking at that moment. What feeling did it bring up?

Because this time, it’s not someone who'd been enslaved, it’s his lover, whose Vallaslin is now removed because he avoided the real issue. It’s another of his failures, along with the failure to stop the Evanuris from reaching godhood, which led to his People being enslaved.

His vhenan’s existance is also a consequence of his failure, one he wouldn’t regret much, but it probably reminds him of his present duty nevertheless.

Lavellan, to him, is not free, if she continues to be with him. He cannot subject her to what he’s been putting himself through. Lavellan is also not free, because she’s not living the life elves should be living. She’s only a shadow of what she could and should be, even though she’s already enough for him.

That's the tragedy of it, is they are both what they want, but to him, that's not it because of what could have been. The present universe is not the universe he thinks he should be in, because he made decisions he still regrets far back on the timeline. That means he cannot have what he wants in this universe, because it’s not the “real” universe, and he's going to amend that by forcefully bringing the two timelines together.

Even though he has someone, who’s all that he desires, right here.

When he said “you are free” to each and every one of the creatures that had been enslaved, did he wish that he was the one being freed?

It’d be sad if he said “you are free” to Lavellan out of muscle memory because removing Vallaslin and saying “you are free” is what he resorted to after chickening out of telling the truth the last second. It’s baked into his reflexes since he'd been doing that for centuries. He kept doing that because he allowed the injustices to happen. He woke up and immediately started fixing things again, old and new and newer problems caused by his mistakes.

[blightworn]

it's a work of art. ( from june! )

@juneforged | sentence starters: always accepting!

' high praise, coming from you, ' dirthamen remarks at the other's appraisal of his work, lips curved into something akin to a smile.

a 'raven' is perched on june's forearm, looking between the two of them inquisitively. ' i tired of losing my ravens to watchful eyes, so i created my own, ' dirthamen explains before cooing to the bird. it hops over to his arm and he pets it lightly.

the creature looks and acts exactly like a raven, though with a wave of dirthamen's hand, the bird transforms into a wisp. it floats up between the two. ' wisps are quite amenable to my work. '

[stonesense]

compelled by the Davrin/Sol/Lucanis dynamic you've been gesturing towards, would love to hear more on that relationship dynamic & how it officially came about

davrin is the ultimate fake idgafer whose correct enrichment is being so deeply long-suffering about whatever he loves in a way that makes it abundantly clear he cares so, so, so much all the time, just by the extent of what he is putting up with. if i want to maximise correct enrichment then giving him two idiot crow partners becomes not only possible but in fact inevitable

i’m hypothesising it as a gradual post-canon development. sol and lucanis are in love. sol and davrin are emotionally hitched together for life. god knows what the boys are doing but i’m pretty sure it’s flirting. these are the bare facts of the matter and at some point it is no longer in my hands whether or not they are also kissing. i didn’t choose this they’re just doing that

i like the idea of sweet and slow buildup that might be more awkward if they didn’t all know and like each other so much. sol and lucanis talk about it so they’re on the same page but theyre sort of fluttering about anxiously. davrin is a little bit uncertain about what the future of this whole thing would be, frankly not accustomed to expecting anything long term let alone with two people let alone these two people, but he is definitely aware of the effect he has and does let them suffer a little bit. Deserved. he should make them work for it actually. there is a lot of cooking happening (lucanis) and a lot of shiny gifts crow style (sol). as long as he doesn’t let them get too out of hand in their offers to kill for him i think he can sit back and enjoy this one for a minute. the others all catch him smiling about it though. NOT slick

i have a lot of stupid bits to do in this timeline. a favourite: sol and lucanis have had a shared room above the lighthouse dining room (affectionately nicknamed the crows’ nest) for ages, and one day the lighthouse decides to helpfully provide what its inhabitants want, as it always does, and moves the whole room above davrin’s. you’ve never been so uncertain how sol achieved anything against the evanuris until you’ve heard the desperation in their voice as they commit to saying, “it’s because we love. assan. so much. it’s probably reacting to how much closer we want to be to. you know. assan.” while lucanis chimes in with a “yes.” then reviews his contribution to sol’s efforts, decides this was inadequate, and adds, “exactly.”

we possibly need lucanis to get his head together and quit first talon before anything actually happens. davrin voice i’m not fixing that man he’ll fix himself if he knows what’s good for him. i have another take in my head lately about how that goes down so there is a sequence of events in my mind but you’ll have to give me a minute to flesh it out

[the-northern-continent]

I am smoking up Skyhold’s entire elfroot supply with this one, but:

Are the Executors… save-scumming?

To be clear, I’m not convinced true time travel is possible in Thedas. I tend to think In Hushed Whispers was the illusion of time travel rather than real time travel. The Fade has access to everyone’s dreams, it could create a pretty detailed prediction of the future (or rendering of the past) from all that information.

But for now, let’s polish up our shiniest tinfoil hats and assume IHW was real time travel. That would sort of imply that you could just… do that, prior to the Veil’s creation. If so, why wasn’t it happening constantly? For example, why fight the titans rather than reversing the action that pissed them off?

Presumably, the ritual to perform a large time reversal would be long, difficult and easy to interrupt. Maybe things are kept mostly stable because multiple powerful mages can cancel each other out. The evanuris seem to have benefited from the war with the titans, so they’d be actively canceling out any attempts to reverse it.

Until they got imprisoned. At which point, someone who regretted the war might eventually attempt a rewind. Except that the magic went wild and the Veil extended to cover the whole world, conveniently blocking that from happening. If the Executors also had access to time magic pre-Veil (+ post-Veil if it gets torn down in the future), they could adjust their actions such that they’re never directly interfering with people’s choices, but by a string of “coincidences” they get exactly the result they want. Reloading the timeline until the butterfly flaps its wings at exactly the right moment. A complex ritual, already prone to going wrong, would be a good place to disguise that kind of influence.

Anyway I keep thinking about that lore drop that Solas knows more about the executors than any other living being, and he’s crossed paths with them prior to Tevinter Nights. Why has he, specifically, seen more of them than the other evanuris have?

And since he knows they’re watching, is he doing anything to try to trick them in Veilguard? Are we sure we know the motivation behind all his choices, or is some of it a performance aimed at fooling the Executors?

Also, why is it so interesting to him that Sera experiences déjà vu?

[hoboblaidd]

Elvhenan Timeline according to the Chantry's records

Someone on twitter pointed to a section on the keep that i never knew about, a timeline of the world state. The Chantry acknowledges that this is a loose timeline because the date is so far removed from history that it's difficult to pin down. They also think that elven immortality wasn't real, which we know to be false.

Arlathan would likely have been founded as the war with the Titans was going on, but likely not at the beginning of the war. The Firstborn elves were logically still finding their feet (pun sort of intended?) before the war truly exploded and defining what their place in the world meant. We don't know how long it was between elves taking bodies and the war breaking out, but given how Solas said each time the elves took a body the earth shook, I think pretty soon after. We have no idea when the war ended and the Evanuris declared themselves gods. Their apotheosis was not as immediate as Veilguard makes it out to be. I prefer Solas' explanation in Trespasser: after the war, generals became respected elders, then kings, then finally gods.

Then we have that elven immortality ends almost 3000 years ago. The info is a little squishy about how long it took the Veil to truly disintegrate what the elves had, but I don't think it took long at all. The obvious immediate destructions are places like the Vir Dirthara. Stories we find around Arlathan, the Crossroads, and a little in the Lighthouse document the confusion and changes people feel after the Veil goes up. I think it's safe to say elven immortality ended very near the time the Veil went up, give or take the years it would take the elves to realize that they were dying like anyone else.

All this to say, based on the Chantry's admittedly lacking timeline - Solas truly is around 10,000 years old (and just counting when he had a body), with 2000-3000 years of that spent in uthenera after he raised the Veil. If elven immortality ended very soon after the Veil went up, that means that Solas' rebellion lasted literal millennia. Solas says he led a rebellion for "a hundred generations of your lifetime." With the estimate of ~5000 years between the founding of Arlathan and the end of elven immortality, the most conservative estimate I can think of is 2000 years of rebellion.

The truth is probably far longer, but this is all we have, and I think it's fascinating. He had a mere 12 years or so in modern Thedas at the time of his ritual. Changing the mind of a being that old and devoted to his goal for that long is almost impossible.

[godofliestreacheryandrebellion]

Timeline of Elvhenan?

so I noticed that there's a discrepency with the timeline of Elvhenan.

In general, the timeline runs like this:

spirits use lyrium to manifest as the first elvhen -> titans get mad and attack them -> the titan war -> solas and mythal tranquilise the titans and imprison the blight -> the evanuris rise as generals (of the titan war), then as leaders, then as respected elders, then finally as "gods" -> solas begins his rebellion against the evanuris -> mythal is murdered -> solas creates the veil and imprisons the evanuris.

However, there is an issue regarding something Solas says in Veilguard.

In the meeting post-Weisshaupt, Solas mentions that he led his rebellion for "a hundred of your lifetimes".

A lifetime = average lifespan. There isn't really a guide for average lifespans in Thedas. The irl modern lifespan is roughly 80 years. Thedosian attitudes towards age seems.. inconsistent.

Anora was criticised for failing to have children by 29, Isolde was considered an older mother for having Connor at 32, Wynne was treated as elderly at 47, Eamon is a year younger than Wynne at 46 - but Divine Rosamund died at 74, Grand Cleric Elthina at 76, Gaspard was 67 in dai and Florianne was 54 but neither was treated as elderly, several Nevarran kings lived into their 100s (although, with some suspicion of necormancy).

so, for arguments sake, let's use the irl one, 80 years x 100 = 8000 years.

so Solas' rebellion lasted roughly 8000 years.

with this information, it can be caluclated that since the Veil was created before or around 4500 FA or -3100 Ancient, the end of Solas' rebellion. and Arlathan was founded in 1 FA or -7600 Ancient. then Solas' rebellion began before Arlathan was founded, and therefore the evanuris had to have been governing Elvhenan as Gods pre-Arlathan too. which also means that the Titan War began before that, as that was what led to them becoming Generals, then Gods.

However, previous information contradicts that.

the elvhen had to have met the Dwarves during the Titan War, which as above had to be before the evanuris and the rebellion. they are supposedly first encountered by the elvhen around the year 3000 FA or -4600 Ancient.

which.. clearly contradicts the "hundred lifetimes" statement.

so maybe the average lifetime was much shorter, perhaps because every other example has been priviledged (arls, divines, atc) or protected/provided for (mages). medieval lifespans were more like 30 years - so 3000 years = Solas' rebellion beginning around 1500 FA or -6100 Ancient.

Which would mean that Arlathan was around for 1500 years pre rebellion, but still contradicts the Dwarves and Titans turning up in 3000 FA or -4600 Ancient since Solas' rebellion would still pre-date the Titan War and the Evanuris rising to godhood.

So either,

Solas was greatly exaggerating

the info about the dwarves meeting the elves is non-canon somehow

[basedonconjecture]

ship sleep dynamics

thank you for the tag @introvertedfangrl!! this was such a fun way to get out some fluffy/cute/low stakes headcanons and just what i needed 🫶 so i will gently pass this tag onto @mythals-whore, @thesummerstorms, @gingervitus, @haedia, @khomabrutalist, @skullypettibone & anyone else who sees this and wants to do it! feel free to tag me in it :3

As it turns out, I have a lot more thoughts on this subject than I thought. So answers are below the cut~

How often do they sleep together?

As often as they can but the actual frequency changes depending on what point in the timeline they’re in. For the first few weeks after defeating the Evanuris, they continue to operate as they had been up to that point and spend most of their nights together while things are getting sorted out. Even though they should have gotten a vacation, they really don’t get long at all before the work begins. Lucanis returns to Treviso first and they didn’t see each other at all so you can guess how well either of them slept :’)

I have a headcanon that Lucanis—and Spite—used the insomnia hours to write her letters while she’s still in Minrathous. Not even terribly romantic ones, mostly updates and gripes, the occasional interjection from Spite, and the like. Beyond a line or two, I imagine any that veered too far into Feelings™ got scrapped before they ever got sent tbh. Selora was terrible about responding to them, at any rate, both because she is a spotty correspondent in general and also because putting her feelings on paper for anyone to see? No thanks :D but they’re very precious to her. They’re proof! Proof someone misses her and is waiting for her! How does this relate to sleep headcanons? WELL. Because she usually fell asleep re-reading them like a dope. This habit will continue whenever they’re apart in the future but she does eventually develop a cipher of sorts so they’re a bit more private. 

After she returns to Treviso herself, there’s still the Antaam to deal with as well as her decision to defect from House de Riva and what that means for both her future etc etc etc. They don’t end up living together again for awhile, but they’re together most nights they aren’t working, so the frequency is a few times a week up until Rook moves into the Villa’s guest house. At that point, they’re then only at the mercy of their schedules, but they’re sharing the same space so it’s more often than not. For most of their relationship, it remains like that. If they’re in the same location, and don’t have other obligations, they’re most likely spending their nights together. 

Where do they sleep?

Wherever is most convenient and/or comfortable, tbh. Until she moves in, it’s primarily Selora’s room at the Diamond once she returned to Treviso and refused to move into Viago’s place OR Lucanis’ but there was…nowhere else to go. Sometimes, Lucanis’ room at the Dellamorte villa, if he’s been there for one of Caterina’s mandatory dinners or some other reason. It takes Lucanis a while to get used to being there again, for real, especially with Illario also living there and things remaining unresolved for awhile. Moving into the guest house allows for the illusion of distance and privacy (particularly wrt Spite) but any opportunity to not be there is seized upon for a good bit. Lucanis’ bed and general accommodations are way better than Sel’s though so sometimes that’s taken into consideration as well as what’s on the books for them as to where they do actually sleep. 

How do they prepare to sleep?

It kind of depends on the events of the day, who needs more attention, etc etc, but they’re Certified Yappers™ so their night routines usually also involve debriefing about their respective days if they spent it apart or something that’s bothering them, etc. It could be about anything on either of their minds, honestly, but Crow business generally gets left at the door. It’s not a hard rule per se, but if one of them starts, they won’t rest so it gets squashed. After the yapping, there’s usually an additional wind down window where either Sel reads and Lucanis knits or Lucanis reads while Sel plays with his hair or something. Her own hobbies are not relaxing in quite the same way, her jewelry designing has similarly been banned, but she needs something to do with her hands so….Luc gets braids until she gets too sleepy. Most of the time she can put him to sleep first with scalp scritches. 

What do they wear to sleep?

I have said this elsewhere before, but Sel usually sleeps in the nude unless there’s a need for modesty. In which case, she’ll sleep in her small clothes or one of Lucanis’ shirts. She’ll use a dressing gown until she’s actually physically in bed lol. I do think she’ll eventually graduate to some kind of pajama situation, but don’t ask me what that is, I do not know. It’s not like she’s really opposed to pajamas/night wear, it’s only that the concept of clothes specifically to sleep in feels like a waste to her. It doesn’t naturally occur to her as a practice, tbh, but I think she could be brought around to it by, uh, adjacent means. Lucanis, on the other hand, I feel like… his practicality means he usually wears something. In my heart of hearts, I believe his favored type of sleepwear would be like really plain night shirts that are somehow exorbitantly expensive for reasons only he could explain. Somewhere I gave him a really plush expensive dressing gown/ smoking jacket situation and I’m torn on whether it was a gift or his rich guy streak at work, alas. 

Do they cuddle?

Yeth :3 Due to their work, they don’t get to spend a whole lot of time together, overall, much less alone time together so they gotta get in all the gross affection when they can. It’s necessary for their health. (Actually, this is true. There’s a period of time where they’re too busy and not balancing things very well and, boy howdy, does it take a toll. A cuddle a day keeps the horrors at bay.) It was such A Time working up to even that level of physical connection and then, whoops, accidentally made a load-bearing feature. 

How easy do they fall asleep?

Depends on the day, I think? They’re not quick to sleep by any means, hence all the routines, but I’d say it’s usually Lucanis first. Selora tends to be more vigilant, out of habit, but if she’s overly tired, sick, or injured, she can zonk right out in Lucanis’ arms. The kind of sleep that’s as close to being dead as possible without actually being dead and there’s no use trying to wake her up until she’s had a minimum of ten to twelve hours. Probably the scared the fuck out him the first time they realized that was a thing. Which would have likely been after the battle in Minrathous. She really did collapse when it was all over. Outside of those times, she usually tries to wait until Lucanis gets some uninterrupted sleep in. After some growing pains, Spite’s usually pretty good about not bothering him but it’s touch and go for a bit.

Do they toss and turn a lot?

Hmmmm, no, not really I don’t think. Selora has always tended to fall asleep in one position and not move until she wakes up again. This was only reinforced when it became obvious that Lucanis was such a light sleeper that too much movement was going to wake him up. If they move at all in their sleep, it’s mostly when they’re already close to waking up anyway. If they’re tossing and turning, they’re not sleeping at all and something else needs to happen to cut that out. 

Do they snore?

Selora snores when she’s congested/has a cold or goes to bed after drinking too much, but otherwise no. Lucanis doesn’t either but! He does breathe really heavily, like really heavy, and that’s how she knows he’s really asleep most of the time. Also, he talks in his sleep on occasion. Like when’s out out, he’ll murmur mostly nonsense. It’s rare enough, the first time it happened with Sel around, she thought it was Spite, but no. It was just him. The nonsense usually falls into 1 of 3 categories: reciting lists, one-side arguments, or something cooking related. The last one is usually an indicator she’ll find him in the kitchen either in the middle of the night or way too fucking early. It is hypothesized that these occurrences are stress-related, for the most part. Well, it’s Selora’s hypothesis. Lucanis denies any sleep talking by claiming he’s definitely awake. Sel did test this once by bringing up an argument he had about storing onions in hosiery and he had no idea what she was talking about. So. But no, neither of them snore on the regular. 

Who hogs the blanket?

Selora runs hot so she doesn’t really use more than a sheet anyway, especially in the summer time, so blankets typically get kicked off or pushed to her feet. Winter might be a little different depending on how warm the room is kept, but she’s more likely just to snuggle up to Lucanis instead. Unfortunately, her chronically cold feet are not a metaphor (or not only a metaphor) for her crash out. She hates it when they’re cold actually, she’ll be completely uncovered and her feet will still be wrapped up in blankets or tucked under Lucanis. I can’t really picture him…as…a blanket hog tbh. Spite, yes, but, hmmm, I think for Lucanis it would depend on season and whether he was feeling ill or something, but Sel doesn’t care as long as her feet stay warm. So they don’t really have any issues that way. When she sticks her icy toes on his legs because she forgot to put on socks or something, I’m sure he’s struggling to remember how much he missed her while she was locked in the regret prison and presumed gone forever. Insert something sappy about how he accepts his fate because the alternative is worse here. 

What do they dream about?

Setting aside the nightmares, Sel rarely dreams of much she can remember. Every so often she’ll wind up visiting Spite in the Fade and they hang out there—she does usually remember those—but everything else is like fragments, if she remembers them at all. There are points where she dreams of her mother more often and she does have one recurrent dream where she’s laying in a field stargazing and that’s it. Nothing else happens. Lucanis is probably sharpening knives in his drives, lbh, or like having one of those cartoon dreams where food is dancing over his head but it’s different pastas and desserts. The occasional stress dream as mentioned before. I do envision Lucanis also has a recurrent stress dream where he’s got too many dishes going and they’re all boiling over or on the verge of burning and people keep asking him questions or criticizing his technique until he loses it and wakes himself up. 

How easily do they wake up?

They’re both light sleepers, so pretty easily, tbh. Selora’s usually awake first most of the time, though, but Lucanis wakes/gets up and down more often than she does. They’re both batting -100 on consistent continuous sleep of the proper amount. 

How awake they are afterwards?

Selora needs all of five minutes and some cold water and she’s set, barring extenuating circumstances. I shan’t saddle her with being a morning person per se but she is the type to just Be Awake after waking up regardless of how much sleep she had or if she’s still tired. Lucanis can and will fall back asleep and waking up too soon often results in extra Brood. Don’t talk to him or expect any answers to any questions until he’s had at least one cup of coffee.