#timeline: evanuris.

[blightworn]

[ passing confidence ]  –  for the sender’s muse brush their fingers against the receiver’s muse’s hand, too scared to hold their hand. ( from june! )

@juneforged | the intimacy of hands: always accepting!

being so close to june was intoxicating; dirthamen tried to avoid it as much as they could, but they had a sneaking suspicion he was aware of this effort and took every opportunity he could to come within close range. though he never got close enough. shoulders stiffen slightly as june goes over the intricacies of his latest invention, mechanical fingers tracing over the smooth wood and dirthamen can only imagine it is their face.

june pauses, ever-changing eyes appraising them, and dirthamen feels like a lamb led to slaughter for a moment, realization again dawning on them that they are, in fact, corporeal. the feeling passes quickly as it came when fingers graze against their own-- eyes snap to his and the moment has been over for a second now and dirthamen still can't breathe--.

" it's... it's beautiful, as always, fenorain. "

[suranamellblackwood]

okay but why DOES solas have naked statues of ghilan'nain holding hands with andruil

taash has apparently determined that he's not smuggling it to fund the rebellion

[0alix0]

Overusage of Lore

a lot of people tend to say that bioware put little to no lore into Veilguard, and i might be on a minority on this to me it's way too much and way too shallow

The entire game feels like writers just scream at you "Look at all the magical thing we have!! So we have Titans! And Evanuris! And Illuminati Those Across the See! And-- are you listening? You better listen cuz there are more! We have Shadow Dragons! We have Griffons! We--"

OMG calm down it's not a fucking Warcraft

the best thing in DA was the way it beautifully showed real life issues through the lens of medieval fantasy world.

The dalish weren't so fascinating because they had an entire language made for them and pretty tattoos. They were fascinating because they were enslaved, fought for freedom, then got their land taken away YET STILL continued to fight for survival, for their cultural identity, their children and their children's children, for freedom. Literally combination of native american's and jewish history. Because despite having one goal they all had different approach and opinion about other of their kin: city elves (those disconnected from their culture) and half-elves ("can they be considered elves?" "should they be allowed to be a part of dalish?").

The city elf origin wasn't so memorable because every npc had a backstory with a length of bible. It was memorable because it was the most obvious analogy on racial oppression, segregation, colonialism and fetishism in the entire franchise. Because it had the guts to actually show in details the horrors of these things.

Broodmothers weren't so horrifying because it's a female mixture of jubba hutt and a fucking pudge from dota with a detailed explanation their anatomy. They were horrifying because they were paralleling a very real misogyny, mistreatment, the way how women in some countries are seen as nothing but a walking uteruses, where the only thing they're good for is to give birth

AND bioware doubled it while doing the same thing with Orzammar, cast system & Rica!

The Circles weren't so interesting because we've got dozens of pages in WoT explaining their hierarchy/fraternities. No, they were interesting because it was literally a bunch of medieval GULAGs with a function of a mental hospital, it showed what mistreatments happen there, the abuse, child abduction and enforcement of religion.... And from the side of templars it was a discussion about professional deformation, addictions and the way high ranking people abuse those to control their underlings.

..... And you know, if we were back in origins, griffons, for example, would've probably been used as a parallel on irl eco terrorism. it might've been about how Wardens despite their good nature unintentionally bonded the general association of the entire animal species to their order and abused this connection to the point when the species was beyond preservation!

and btw, then that decision in davrin's quest would actually had any meaning, instead of throwing wardens into mud (again) and turning isseya into a villain for no fkn reason.

lore is only good as long as it's used for purpose, when it has things to discuss, not just exist

i don't fucking care about titans/evanuris/and other shit because they're just a 30 pages long article in codex and WoT trying to explain magic and write DA timeline almost to a fucking mesozoic era. it's BORING. Get me emotionally invested, then i'll care

[hoboblaidd]

Elvhenan Timeline according to the Chantry's records

Someone on twitter pointed to a section on the keep that i never knew about, a timeline of the world state. The Chantry acknowledges that this is a loose timeline because the date is so far removed from history that it's difficult to pin down. They also think that elven immortality wasn't real, which we know to be false.

Arlathan would likely have been founded as the war with the Titans was going on, but likely not at the beginning of the war. The Firstborn elves were logically still finding their feet (pun sort of intended?) before the war truly exploded and defining what their place in the world meant. We don't know how long it was between elves taking bodies and the war breaking out, but given how Solas said each time the elves took a body the earth shook, I think pretty soon after. We have no idea when the war ended and the Evanuris declared themselves gods. Their apotheosis was not as immediate as Veilguard makes it out to be. I prefer Solas' explanation in Trespasser: after the war, generals became respected elders, then kings, then finally gods.

Then we have that elven immortality ends almost 3000 years ago. The info is a little squishy about how long it took the Veil to truly disintegrate what the elves had, but I don't think it took long at all. The obvious immediate destructions are places like the Vir Dirthara. Stories we find around Arlathan, the Crossroads, and a little in the Lighthouse document the confusion and changes people feel after the Veil goes up. I think it's safe to say elven immortality ended very near the time the Veil went up, give or take the years it would take the elves to realize that they were dying like anyone else.

All this to say, based on the Chantry's admittedly lacking timeline - Solas truly is around 10,000 years old (and just counting when he had a body), with 2000-3000 years of that spent in uthenera after he raised the Veil. If elven immortality ended very soon after the Veil went up, that means that Solas' rebellion lasted literal millennia. Solas says he led a rebellion for "a hundred generations of your lifetime." With the estimate of ~5000 years between the founding of Arlathan and the end of elven immortality, the most conservative estimate I can think of is 2000 years of rebellion.

The truth is probably far longer, but this is all we have, and I think it's fascinating. He had a mere 12 years or so in modern Thedas at the time of his ritual. Changing the mind of a being that old and devoted to his goal for that long is almost impossible.

[mythalism]

there is a bit of a discourse on twitter about whether Mythal was a slave owner. What is your take on this? I’ve seen arguments that her vallaslin was a mark of honour and she “protected her people”. But also if that was the case, why would Solas remove his marks and propose to do the same to Lavellan?

I wonder if that’s another evidence of her character being sanitised in DAV compared to lore, revealed in DAI

it has genuinely never occurred to me that mythal would not be a slave owner. we know the evanuris practiced slavery. we know the only one who did not was fen'harel, as a result there is no fen'harel vallaslin. there is however a mythal vallaslin both presently and anciently, worn by felassan, abelas, and all of the temple sentinels at the least, and by solas himself once if you assume that is the meaning of cole's comment about him burning her off his face, which i do make that assumption. solas says mythal "was the best" of the evanuris, but that is an extremely low bar. we also now know that she was a driving force behind the war with the titans and their tranquilization and the destruction of the dwarven empire, and she admits to using solas as a weapon of war. i am not sure why any of these things would lead anyone to believe that she is morally above enslaving people. we have literally met the people she enslaved. whether or not they were "devoted" or "willing" (ew) is irrelevant in the context of her power as an evanuris.

i think perhaps dragon age was gearing up pre-veilguard to explore the vallaslin much more in depth however it ended up erasing it completely so we will never know. its possible that vallaslin had multiple meanings, and did not always denote enslavement but could denote enslavement depending on the circumstances. my own understanding pre-vg was that the vallaslin probably interacted with other factors, such as class/wealth, power, and personal favoritism, to varying degrees of personal and political agency so that not every person with mythal's vallaslin would have the same exact experience. solas's experience clearly was unique and we see that in the way that their relationship is presented in his murals, and how they continue to have a relationship even after he has removed his own (assuming thats the timeline and not that they just completely retconned him having vallaslin in the first place lol). but just because solas sees mythal in a forgiving light (sometimes, he goes back and forth, which does make sense considering his complex feelings about her) does not mean mythal was, objectively, that way. its pretty heavily implied that he had major rose colored glasses on for her, and its likely he only saw a certain side of her. we can probably assume that elgar'nan saw a very different one. we have a lot of different perceptions of her from different sources, and different literal fragments of her personality. we also know she changed quite drastically overtime and was corrupted from benevolence into retribution. it is difficult to say with certainty what she was like because the game does not tell us.

however enslavement is enslavement and i think we should be frank about it even if veilguard isnt interested in touching on it. "but she was a good slave-owner!" is a dangerous sentiment reflective of real life, anti-abolition arguments during the american civil war that revisionist racists and white supremacists still use today and i think people should take great care not to espouse the same, even in the context of a fantasy world.

[roarrrgame]

I read Tevinter Nights and found that Solas said “you are free” when he freed a wisp in there, too. I realised Solas said “you are free” to Lavellan after removing her Vallaslin, as well as to the ancient slaves he freed and removed Vallaslin for.

Removing Lavellan’s Vallaslin was perhaps the first time he’d done so since he woke up. I wonder what he was thinking at that moment. What feeling did it bring up?

Because this time, it’s not someone who'd been enslaved, it’s his lover, whose Vallaslin is now removed because he avoided the real issue. It’s another of his failures, along with the failure to stop the Evanuris from reaching godhood, which led to his People being enslaved.

His vhenan’s existance is also a consequence of his failure, one he wouldn’t regret much, but it probably reminds him of his present duty nevertheless.

Lavellan, to him, is not free, if she continues to be with him. He cannot subject her to what he’s been putting himself through. Lavellan is also not free, because she’s not living the life elves should be living. She’s only a shadow of what she could and should be, even though she’s already enough for him.

That's the tragedy of it, is they are both what they want, but to him, that's not it because of what could have been. The present universe is not the universe he thinks he should be in, because he made decisions he still regrets far back on the timeline. That means he cannot have what he wants in this universe, because it’s not the “real” universe, and he's going to amend that by forcefully bringing the two timelines together.

Even though he has someone, who’s all that he desires, right here.

When he said “you are free” to each and every one of the creatures that had been enslaved, did he wish that he was the one being freed?

It’d be sad if he said “you are free” to Lavellan out of muscle memory because removing Vallaslin and saying “you are free” is what he resorted to after chickening out of telling the truth the last second. It’s baked into his reflexes since he'd been doing that for centuries. He kept doing that because he allowed the injustices to happen. He woke up and immediately started fixing things again, old and new and newer problems caused by his mistakes.

[vigilskeep]

compelled by the Davrin/Sol/Lucanis dynamic you've been gesturing towards, would love to hear more on that relationship dynamic & how it officially came about

davrin is the ultimate fake idgafer whose correct enrichment is being so deeply long-suffering about whatever he loves in a way that makes it abundantly clear he cares so, so, so much all the time, just by the extent of what he is putting up with. if i want to maximise correct enrichment then giving him two idiot crow partners becomes not only possible but in fact inevitable

i’m hypothesising it as a gradual post-canon development. sol and lucanis are in love. sol and davrin are emotionally hitched together for life. god knows what the boys are doing but i’m pretty sure it’s flirting. these are the bare facts of the matter and at some point it is no longer in my hands whether or not they are also kissing. i didn’t choose this they’re just doing that

i like the idea of sweet and slow buildup that might be more awkward if they didn’t all know and like each other so much. sol and lucanis talk about it so they’re on the same page but theyre sort of fluttering about anxiously. davrin is a little bit uncertain about what the future of this whole thing would be, frankly not accustomed to expecting anything long term let alone with two people let alone these two people, but he is definitely aware of the effect he has and does let them suffer a little bit. Deserved. he should make them work for it actually. there is a lot of cooking happening (lucanis) and a lot of shiny gifts crow style (sol). as long as he doesn’t let them get too out of hand in their offers to kill for him i think he can sit back and enjoy this one for a minute. the others all catch him smiling about it though. NOT slick

i have a lot of stupid bits to do in this timeline. a favourite: sol and lucanis have had a shared room above the lighthouse dining room (affectionately nicknamed the crows’ nest) for ages, and one day the lighthouse decides to helpfully provide what its inhabitants want, as it always does, and moves the whole room above davrin’s. you’ve never been so uncertain how sol achieved anything against the evanuris until you’ve heard the desperation in their voice as they commit to saying, “it’s because we love. assan. so much. it’s probably reacting to how much closer we want to be to. you know. assan.” while lucanis chimes in with a “yes.” then reviews his contribution to sol’s efforts, decides this was inadequate, and adds, “exactly.”

we possibly need lucanis to get his head together and quit first talon before anything actually happens. davrin voice i’m not fixing that man he’ll fix himself if he knows what’s good for him. i have another take in my head lately about how that goes down so there is a sequence of events in my mind but you’ll have to give me a minute to flesh it out

[the-northern-continent]

I am smoking up Skyhold’s entire elfroot supply with this one, but:

Are the Executors… save-scumming?

To be clear, I’m not convinced true time travel is possible in Thedas. I tend to think In Hushed Whispers was the illusion of time travel rather than real time travel. The Fade has access to everyone’s dreams, it could create a pretty detailed prediction of the future (or rendering of the past) from all that information.

But for now, let’s polish up our shiniest tinfoil hats and assume IHW was real time travel. That would sort of imply that you could just… do that, prior to the Veil’s creation. If so, why wasn’t it happening constantly? For example, why fight the titans rather than reversing the action that pissed them off?

Presumably, the ritual to perform a large time reversal would be long, difficult and easy to interrupt. Maybe things are kept mostly stable because multiple powerful mages can cancel each other out. The evanuris seem to have benefited from the war with the titans, so they’d be actively canceling out any attempts to reverse it.

Until they got imprisoned. At which point, someone who regretted the war might eventually attempt a rewind. Except that the magic went wild and the Veil extended to cover the whole world, conveniently blocking that from happening. If the Executors also had access to time magic pre-Veil (+ post-Veil if it gets torn down in the future), they could adjust their actions such that they’re never directly interfering with people’s choices, but by a string of “coincidences” they get exactly the result they want. Reloading the timeline until the butterfly flaps its wings at exactly the right moment. A complex ritual, already prone to going wrong, would be a good place to disguise that kind of influence.

Anyway I keep thinking about that lore drop that Solas knows more about the executors than any other living being, and he’s crossed paths with them prior to Tevinter Nights. Why has he, specifically, seen more of them than the other evanuris have?

And since he knows they’re watching, is he doing anything to try to trick them in Veilguard? Are we sure we know the motivation behind all his choices, or is some of it a performance aimed at fooling the Executors?

Also, why is it so interesting to him that Sera experiences déjà vu?

[smitten-miqitten]

Thinking about the little Crossroads adventures during Solas's rebellion and also about the Lyrium Dagger, and sort of mulling over timelines and what happens why and when:

I think they can be a bit hard to place, timeline-wise, which is understandable given that the rebellion took place over the span of at least a thousand years or whatever . The Ghilan'nain one is obviously near the early stages of the rebellion, Pre-Ghilly Godhood and thus Pre-Mythal Murder.

The Disruption Spirit/Citadel Assault one though is interesting because I think it's after Mythal's murder. And though it isn't stated outright, I'm pretty sure the relic Solas is trying to retrieve is the Lyrium Dagger. He says it has the power to imprison a god, and that the Evanuris "overreached", so I think it's meant to be implied that it's the dagger. Solas is also especially vicious here, which could just be depicting his descent into being an overly pragmatic leader but I also think it's plausibly him acting rashly and cruelly out of recent grief. It's interesting too how shocked Felassan is, so if this is near the tail end of the rebellion then Solas was more noble in his actions for longer than I initially expected.

The timeline/ownership of the dagger I'm pretty sure is roughly:

Mythal tasks Solas with making it ->

Mythal + the other Evanuris or Mythal + Solas use the dagger to dice the Titans dreams (I know Solas creates it but I'm unsure if it specifies who actually physically uses it to do the deed. I kinda assume the Evanuris+Mythal, since they have it after to mercc her with.) ->

The dagger remains in the possession of the Evanuris and/or Mythal (I would assume the other Evanuris, given what it does next) ->

The Evanuris murder Mythal with the dagger when she confronts them about the Blight ->

Solas assaults Elgar'nan's Citadel with Disruption Spirits while his sneaky peeps steal the dagger back ->

Solas takes the fragment of Mythal that clung to the dagger from it, and squirrels her away in a section of the Crossroads ->

Solas uses the dagger in the ritual he devised to seal away the Evanuris ->

???? Lyrium Idol ->

Veilguard and stuff

It's interesting to me to think that for most of his rebellion, which seems to have also been a fair portion of his pre-veil, body-having life given how quickly (relatively) the Evanuris decide to call themselves Gods, he actually doesn't seem to have been in possession of the Lyrium Dagger. It's the "Wolf's Fang", but between making it and using it to imprison the Evanuris it doesn't sound like he actually owned it. I wonder how long a time span it was between reacquiring it and the Veil ritual, for it to gain that moniker 🤔

Also the fact that nobody seems to be calling for this extremely powerful and dangerous artifact, which like its creator has done basically nothing but cause problems since it was brought into being, to be destroyed or locked away at the end of Veilguard is wild to me. The genocide knife is a menace.

[sibylance]

Ancient Arlathan au doodle comic with Felassan and Mio

Still trying to figure out their timeline but they def met before the evanuris declared themselves gods. Mio was already pledged in service to Elgar’nan and loyally followed him into the charge against the titans

[blightworn]

it's a work of art. ( from june! )

@juneforged | sentence starters: always accepting!

' high praise, coming from you, ' dirthamen remarks at the other's appraisal of his work, lips curved into something akin to a smile.

a 'raven' is perched on june's forearm, looking between the two of them inquisitively. ' i tired of losing my ravens to watchful eyes, so i created my own, ' dirthamen explains before cooing to the bird. it hops over to his arm and he pets it lightly.

the creature looks and acts exactly like a raven, though with a wave of dirthamen's hand, the bird transforms into a wisp. it floats up between the two. ' wisps are quite amenable to my work. '

[broodwoof]

timeline: post Regrets questline

Mythal & Solas: No Gods, No Monsters; No Good, No Evil

Just started Act 3. As of this point, I certainly do not see Solas as evil, but I also don't see Mythal as evil. But before I dig into my reasoning for that, I need to touch on my theories around spirits(/demons).

In-game, the delineation between spirits and demons is strict, and begun by a member of the Chantry. In truth, I think the line is much fuzzier, and that the implied safe vs. dangerous discrepency is false. Or rather, I think it's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, but not one that reflects on the inherent, intrinsic, and unalienable nature of spirits(/demons).

Wisdom is a spirit. Perceived as a positive force. Yet, the pursuit of wisdom can make one callous, disrespectful, demanding, obsessive... at the same time, it can make one balanced, responsible, considerate. Thus, Wisdom is not a positive or a negative force. But the nature of spirits is such that they pick up on how people interpret them, and are more often perceived as gentle beings.

In a similar vein, Rage, perceived as a negative/threatening demon, is simply an emotion. Rage can be fury at injustice, a driving force, an energy; it can also be widely destructive, careless, impulsive.

All this to say: Wisdom is not Purely Good, and Pride is not Purely Evil; Benevolence is not Purely Good, and Retribution (iirc) is not Purely Evil.

With that in mind...

We see that Mythal (Benevolence) asks that Solas (Wisdom) leave the Fade and join her. He protests, but ultimately concedes. To me, this is a choice. There's no coercion or force, simply that he is willing to follow Mythal, even to do things he does not agree with. She was the one asking, but he was the one who said yes.

Mythal wants help to control Elgar'nan (I have theories about what his Aspects are, but that's another post). This is why she turns to Solas, someone she trusts, and someone who specifically embodies wisdom. On top of the trust, it is logical to recruit Wisdom, because she needs his, well, wisdom. But the problem with wisdom - especially with Solas' wisdom - is that it has always been at a remove. It is an academic wisdom, that of a distant observer. Even when he is inexorably involved, he does not understand how to sway the Evanuris, he cannot fulfill what Mythal would have him do.

The longer all the Evanuris are existing in physical bodies outside of the Fade, the more they change. Elgar'nan, whatever he might have been originally, becomes tyrannical, obsessed not just with receiving worship, but with receiving love. Being a respected general was not enough for him. Being a god-king was not enough. He always needed more.

Mythal, as Benevolence, sought to protect her people. That was the role she had taken on, the reason she had taken flesh in the first place, a means of cooling Elgar'nan's temper. But the longer she is in court, the more politicized she becomes, the more cunning, and with what is required and expected of her constantly shifting, the more she begins to feel that the worship might be right. Elgar'nan desires control and love; Mythal, in contrast, believes that the Elvhen need guidance. Where Elgar'nan's rule is rooted in tyranny and self-fulfillment, Mythal's is rooted in a firm maternalism.

Solas protests as Wisdom would. Is their power and respect not enough? How dare they work for the Elvhen only to turn around and rule them? But by this point, both Elgar'nan and Mythal were committed to their course... just as Solas was to his.

So, Solas becomes Fen'Harel. The Dread Wolf.

Cunning, manipulative, a warrior and a general.

Mythal's corruption was absolute power corrupting absolutely, coupled with her need to continue being an Evanuris, since she was the only truly stabilizing force (presumably).

Solas' corruption was the ends justifying the means, because they had to, because he had no option but to use every possible method at his disposal. You do not win against would-be gods by playing by the rules.

To me, they mirror each other. Were their positions reversed - were it Wisdom who stood beside Elgar'nan, were it Benevolence who begged them to lay down their godhood - I think it might have gone similarly. At the core, they are very similar spirits, very similar people. But the specifics of their circumstances shaped them, changed them... and given their nature, that change spiraled into centuries, reaffirming itself and branching off.

So this whole essay is just to say... I don't think Mythal is the evil villain any more than Solas is. I think they are both deeply flawed people, whose circumstances have led to a narrowing of their perspective and an insistence that their respective courses were the right ones.

And of course, "beginning with good intentions" does not mean someone cannot become a villain... I just think that's not really what either of them are. Because, for all her flaws, Mythal tried until the very end. And then past that end. She kept trying. Yes, her focus was limited; yes, she did horrible things to the Titans (things I still don't have full context for, and maybe nobody does, but things that are very, very hard to consider ever being justified. But it is possible to consider that it might feel necessary.)

But it's also worth noting that, whatever she did in the past, Mythal - specifically Flemythal - tried to convince Solas to accept modern elves in the present. Which was not something I expected. But her time in the world has changed her; I imagine her joining with a mortal woman has also changed her. So Mythal, for all her past mistakes, was really on team Inquisition and Veilguard in the end. Trying to preserve the current world, rather than permit Solas to change - to restore - the world to what it had once been, what he destroyed in his genuine attempt to seal away the Evanuris before they destroyed everything.

But for Wisdom, for Pride, to tolerate having caused exactly what he was working to prevent... it's no wonder that Solas is so incredibly dedicated to repairing this, to alleviating this particular regret, out of all his many, many regrets. The world changed because of what he did. So many died. It was not the destruction the Evanuris sought to wreak, but could it truly appear any better when you wake up countless years later to a world that feels like a pale imitation of what it once was, and know that you're the cause?

Wisdom is an academic. Lonely, isolated, insular. Theoretical and abstract. Pride is a force, a momentum, an energy and drive and conviction. Together, in one person, driven by the deepest sorrows and regrets, his history lined with horrible actions to prevent worse actions, only to get still worse actions as a response...

Solas wanted to alleviate suffering. Mythal did, too. But the situation was such that neither of them could do so without getting dirty.

[headachecat]

As someone who hasn't read the books but wants more information, what kind of Regrets™ would Falessan present? Would Solas finally see the elves not as pawns and easily disposable? (That's all I really got from the game/vague posts)

THANK YOU FOR ASKING!!

Felassan is present in Veilguard as one of Solas’ friends and Agents during the rebellion against the Evanuris. He grows concerned over Solas’ increasing ruthlessness that eventually leads to their victory, but remains loyal to the very end.

Now, we know that after the creation of the Veil, Solas went missing, as the ritual weakened him so much he went into slumber for literal millennia. During that time, Felassan remained so painfully loyal to Solas, that he went looking for him. For years.

This causes a significant rift between who they were as people, as Solas slept through the years, unchanged in his views, Felassan has grown, adapted and came to care for the people he was surrounded with. Even if over time the Dalish twisted the stories and held the Evanuris as their rightful gods and Fen’harel as the antagonistic, cursed god, Felassan has spent his time adapting to the change gradually. He had no other choice.

Thus, when Solas finally woke up and got hit with the absolutely devastating reality of his actions, he turned to direct his anger at the Dalish and the modern elves for who they were.

In the Inquisition, it is revealed through Solas’ convo with Cole, that Solas murdered Felassan. Because he viewed the mortals around him as people. As friends. Most likely also because he tried to sway Solas to accept who the elves now were, but we know that the spirit of Pride can take over Solas’ actions more than he wishes.

Technically, the game also suggests that Felassan was killed partially because he refused to give Solas the passphrase to activate the Eluvians. Because he tried to protect the world as it is now. And Solas could not take it.

He woke up alone, weak, powerless, chained to a doomed purpose. He’s a broken spirit in a world that despises him, and there is nothing left for him anymore. Imagine seeing your only remaining friend after literally MILLENIA, and he’s just okay with the way the world is. The world that YOU broke. The world that DESPISES you. The world that sings praises to the people that ABUSED you AND your people.

Now, from Felassan’s perspective - imagine searching for your leader, a friend, the only remaining ancient elf for millennia. When he finally awakes, you find him, and he’s just raging. He wants to take away the world he’s so afraid of. The world that you’ve grown to love, to nurture, to exist in. The PAIN that inflicts upon you. But you don’t give up - you try to talk sense into him, you do your best to stop him. But there’s nothing you can do, and you give your life in an attempt.

Felassan’s spirit appears in the Veilguard as one of the mini bosses. It’s literally called The Betrayal of Felassan and it’s voice line refer to being stabbed in the back and also cries about an „unfinished story”.

Felassan’s spirit is tormented in the Fade because he was killed by his friend, betrayed and finally forgotten. Even by the game, ironically. All there is left for the player to do is to kill his blighted remains.

SO, I do believe that Mythal would represent the regrets of Solas’ youth that we’ve seen in the game itself.

Felassan represents Solas’ own betrayal regrets and is successive in the timeline to Mythal. The regrets of not being able to control his own spirit. The regrets of losing a friend (ANOTHER ONE!!) The regrets of doing whatever it takes to repair the world. The regrets of being twisted against his own nature. He’s the spirit of wisdom, for gods’ sake!

And finally, Inquisitor, well- we all know that one. It links to betrayal, but also takes us on a full circle back to Mythal. In romance especially, Solas is the one leaving Inquisitor who is begging him to not go, as he disappeared to the fate unknown in Trespasser. The same happened when Mythal left Solas to talk to the Evanuris, even though Solas begged her not to go. Even further, Inquisitor also links to Felassan - trying to make Solas see the people as who they are - real beings, worthy of life. And again, after Trespasser, Inquisitor spends years looking for Solas.

I mean come on.

[scribeofmorpheus]

Qunari Origins and the Forgotten Ones[?]

I'm making a rough-thoughts-about-Qunari-dogma-and-origins post because I must store the thoughts somewhere before I can dissect them further but...

I'm very interested in the phrasing of this codex entry in DA2 (especially after the confirmations/revelations of the ancient elves' origins in dav):

[Not really] spoilers [but lore speculations] below!

note: this is definitely me putting too much emphasis on the extent of foreshadowing a series can be accredited with, and absolutely stretches the written intention too far for what could possibly be considered "traditional analysis". There's every chance this codex is written this way stylistically, but alas, I want to work on something constructive and interesting in the dragon age lore to find that joy again!

Qunari view themselves as a part of a "whole"--similar to how dwarves are part of a larger whole as well (the Titans). You could accredit this reading to being one of a "pack" mentality. Or how dragons can often "conjure/call" their wyverns/dragonlings to come to their aid or follow an instruction.

They also have a spirit outside of their "body"--their military. So, like the ancient elves that built themselves from lyrium they are a duality of solid with spiritual essence "hidden" from the face of southern Thedas.

We know the Qunari came from across the Boeric Ocean, Par Vollen is not their native homeland. There's lore about them having horns because of dragon blood (supposedly mages back in the day trying to make more powerful warriors)--this leads way to my thought process of the Qunari being bound to a genesis that is, essentially: military experiment (the way Tevinter breeds Altus mages, they would endeavour to make a race of unmatched conquering power).

However, that's too reductive and too cheap (i feel) an explanation for how that origin could also explain their dogmatic religion and their culture's "iron-grip" on expressions of individuality outside the Qun. There's too much precision in their structure to simply bind it under the tagline of: "we're like this to tame the dragon blood and keep the fires in check--lest they consume us like they do the talvaashoth or the deserters".

So now I'm thinking, there must have been a trigger that forced their society to rely so heavily on the dogmatic rigidity of the Qun--a set way of being, of having a role and understanding of where you stand in the larger scheme of things. Which had me wondering about what the Forgotten Ones did that was so bad that the Evanuris themselves took time off the Titan War to war with them! (presumably, the timeline is insane--and the Evanuris war lasted at LEAST 1000 years according to Solas).

So here's my very flimsy, very-not-at-all possible interpretation. Anaris and the Forgotten Ones could have done many things to brand them "worst of the worst" but only one idea seems to track with the possible theme of a "perfect vessel" that is strewn across their stories:

Formless One's first appearance as a dragon, one they feel is limited and not a true representation of their essence--and the haunting narrative of seeking a true body

Anaris, obviously, everything with his arc linked in Bellara's story, wearing a mask, and then turning to dramatic goop on the floor.

Gaxkang (arcane horror demon) having "Unbound" in their name, if we consider spirits in bodily vessels "bound", this could be a "refutation" kind of title. Like if John Snow's title was John the Wise (in jest).

Imshael, he can shift "between the forms of fear, rage and pride demons" [and in the concept art Imshael had a female persona, so I do think having an 'identity'/'prime body' is intertwined in his/hers/their ethos too].

all except maybe Xebenkeck have a loose thread to this "perfect vessel" tapestry my brain is weaving--but she was first, I think, and she is also a desire demon, whom Qunari share a resemblance with horns-wise [Mythal too, but that's more because of "dragon" effigies in her statues and headpiece]. Xeb is possibly their most 'shallow' entry to the Forgotten One's lore--or equally the most cohesive, since desires are changing, and make of people malleable subjects--deals with the ability to mould or cause chaos.

Loose note: Xenon the Antiquarian, I know it's probably the "X" of it all, and they're probably named after the gas "Xenon", but their wanting of "immortality" and then the collection of rare and powerful tomes/trinkets, being tricked by Yavana or another Witch of the Wilds to be a withered, frail thing in a husk? He's definitely related to the Executors--at least! And they're most likely the lingering influence of the Forgotten Ones (possibly).

[Imshael's letter in the Fade; datv]

From the wiki on Xebenkeck (sidenote: girl how do you pronounce your name? is it like Xoloitzcuintle?! is it Ch-eben-kek? or is it a mandrin X like SH-eben-kek?):

"“The first of the magus cast themselves deep in the Fade in search of answers and power, always power. They found the forbidden ones—Xebenkeck, Imshael, Gaxkang the Unbound, and The Formless One. Many conversations were had and much of the fabric of the world revealed. And thus the magic of blood was born.” ―unknown mage[1]"

the dao codex entry makes it sound like the Forbidden/Forgotten Ones discovered blood magic, but I don't think that's right, considering ancient elves used blood magic neutrally (it's only seen as an 'evil' art in modern thedas--because of the side-effect of having mages be oppressed and locked away in religious tower blocks). I think they possibly taught modern humans/elves/mages about blood magic again, and modern humans were to blame for it being used mostly in a negative/desperate light.

Now binding a spirit is usually what turns them into a demon. It corrupts their purpose and is also a great theft of autonomy from the spirit's side. Dragons are ancient, possibly the oldest "physical flesh" form besides Titans. Considering the ancient elves were losing the war with the titans because they were possibly few in number and not nearly as strong physically, I'm inclined to believe that maybe the Forbidden One's became twisted into the versions we know today because they committed great sacrilege against the Elvhen, the dragons and the Titans in one big gesture: creating the qunari as a form of making the ultimate form.

In my head, I can see them as researchers, which leads well to them toying with humans mainly out of interest to see the results unfold: to orchestrate chaos (this will play in the rigid qun structure later).

To make the ultimate form, they'd need spirits, lyrium and dragon's blood--and I'm willing to bet none of the participants in this "research" were entirely willing.

And then what if red lyrium is like a cyst from these experiments? Dragon's blood from the experiments that tainted the Titans somehow, gave them that "fire"; that "rage"; that "inflammation"? Which could also explain how Imshael knew how to cure red lyrium poisoning.

So they forcibly pull other spirits out of the Fade (maybe luring them out with the "unbound" of them, or with desire?--or the illusion of choice or fear or rage), binding them to a lyrium body instilled or infused with dragon's blood (maybe creating red lyrium as we know it) and then forging the qunari (but they were possibly defective? possibly hunted down by "mythal/another dragon effigy-linked woman" that made them flee their home the first time?).

So if the Forbidden Ones represent chaos, it makes sense that the surviving twisted spirits left confused in their new bodies would crave structure, and why their minds would build a dogma that leashed their chaotic structures with enforced rigidity, and it would also explain the Qun's inbuilt fear of "unchecked" power; of magic and the Fade.

As Solas said "Chaos breeds a desire for simplicity." Or something like that.

Also the firebreathing, heightened sense of smell, but also Bull's odd reaction to the Fade in Trespasser (we know he sees it differently than both elves and humans--but it's discordant, confused, almost like how trauma warps/frames understanding).

Very on the nose also: Taash. From Ataashi. A Little Dragon from Dragons. That's all for now folks.

TLDR: Forgotten Ones possibly wanted to make an "ultimate weapon form" for themselves by using unwilling spirits (mind and soul) to fill the lyrium flesh (to make arms, legs, ears...) but the blood is sourced from dragons (fire).

[thebaldursmouthgazette]

I’ve read your Solavellan post, and while I agree with it, I can’t help but feel that the way the Solavellan ending sits within the larger narrative is kind of hilarious. The prerequisite of his “walk into the Fade on his own” ending is getting Mythal’s essence, so Lavellan doesn’t only come across as delusional but also inconsequential in the larger story. It seems like the narrative doesn’t care about this supposedly epic love story, even though it would have been relatively easy to write something different.

I’m sorry but the answer is that with how the world and characters they’ve set up works, a solas romancing Lavellan kinda is delusional and inconsequential, and there wasn’t really any way of making her NOT come across that way with how they already established things.

Like Solas is unimaginably old. We say thousands of years in the plural, which is already really fucking old, but I think the true answer lies closer to at least ten thousand, possibly tens of thousands. The blight was formed by the tortured souls of the titans manifesting their pain physically, and we know that ages past between their defeat and the blight starting, then we know they trapped it, then we know enough time passed for the other evanuris to forget how serious it was, rediscover it, be convinced it was bad, then forget again and change their mind and then be consumed by it.

The ancient elves took decades to make decisions, spent centuries to cast spells. They existed on a time frame unimaginably slow to us, and the series of events from the sundering of the titans took place over what THEY considered to be a long time. And then, on top of that, there’s the time before the titans were sundered, and the time after Solas created the veil. He is truly truly ancient.

Lavellans age is obviously dependent on the player, but generally they seem to be about 25-40 years old. Inquisition took place over the course of a year, Solas and Lavellan are together for a maximum of like, 6 months of that, and he spends most of that time not seeing her as a real person.

Like Lavellan is truly a blip on this man’s timeline. She’s barely been around for the length of time it would have taken him to make a simple decision in ancient times. It’s wild that she has this much of an influence on Solas’ life. From his perspective she’s basically a baby he kissed once. It would be nearly impossible to actually make that an epic love story that makes sense, so trying to do that while still being truthful to his character just makes it come off really weird.

If they wanted it to not come off as weird, I feel like they’d have to have been together for a lot longer, like at least a couple of years, but that just doesn’t work with the timeline of the game, since solas fucks off the moment there’s nothing in it for him. The solas romance was added fairly last minute, I think just for the potential angst of it. So I don’t think they really thought through the implications of it or how it would work long term.

[mythalism]

So i've heard one FFXIV expansion was the perfect exact Solas story blueprint the writer definitely played and should have followed step by step for great success. I see you say cyberpunk was the perfect exact Solas story blueprint the writer definitely played and should have followed step by step for great success.

Both statements are pretty intriguing !! I don't know either so I'm wondering, is it the same story in a different setting or are they developping different...subthemes... if that's even possible

Thanks :D have a nice time over there

yesss i have heard the same about mr. emet selch. ffxiv is on my list!

as for cyberpunk its basically exactly what veilguard tried to be but far better executed. its actually nearly the exact same premise and i am absolutely positive that they took heavy inspiration from it considering the timeline of cyberpunk's release matches up with when veilguard was beginning its development (~2020)

basically, your character (V) gets this guy (johnny silverhand)'s consciousness stuck in their head when a mission goes wrong via the sci-fi version of fade-jail blood magic (a computer chip in ur head). johnny also happens to have blown up a building 50ish years ago with a nuke and killed like 15,000 people in pursuit of vengeance for the death of someone he loved, and is remembered as a terrorist. you can't take him out of your brain, or you will die. you have to get him out of your brain though, because you will also die if he stays. your entire quest is you trying to get him the fuck out of your head without dying. however he's not just someone you go pray to and chat with (4) times in an empty, disconnected realm. he is a near-constant presence as you go about the game. you see him visually in the world in front of you. he pops up constantly, he sees through your eyes, he feels everything you feel and he comments on all of it. he is heavily involved in main quests, often providing commentary and giving important exposition as you track down people he used to know when he was alive & embodied. but he also is regularly present in side quests, whether that is being a dick to you, ranting about the evils of capitalism, or lecturing you to have empathy for a guy who is grieving the loss of his pet tortoise. you also experience his memories visually. not as an outsider, but literally AS HIM, in person. these are entire gameplay sequences where you play AS HIM. including fucking his ex girlfriend who is voiced by alix wilton reagan. anyway. im sure i dont have to go into further detail on how mechanically this is everything that the solas/rook relationship needed to be to be compelling, to connect the new protagonist to the stakes of the blight and the evanuris, and to flesh out solas's ending with the narrative weight it deserved by letting him actually EXIST WITHIN THE WORLD... anyway. its fine.

i am actually only like 24 hours in, so i actually have no clue how the game ends or how any of this wraps up, so i cannot say if it is the perfect blueprint for his story. but on a gameplay level of how solas should have been integrated into the game world? yeah. its insane that they had this right in front of them and just... decided to keep him in fade time-out for the entire game.

if you are interested in learning more i would refer you to meryl @elf-trash and @scaryanneee who are the foremost scholars on johnny silverhand studies and the reason i finally played the game after it sat in my steam library for a year. xoxo