#this post is about jon snow if it wasn't clear

[gildeddlily]

I'm genuinely going crazy because of jon snow. I haven't been able to think about anything else for the last two weeks, when I watched the fourth season of got- now I finished it and everything is worse!!! I have thirty tabs on chrome of fics about jon snow. I'm writing a fic about jon snow. I impulsively ordered the first two books because everyone says book jon is even better and I'll go get them tomorrow cause I need to consume more content about jon snow I need to absorb him like cream on skin. I've watched every jon snow edit ever made, even the ones with the ugly music and the fifty seconds intro and the ugliest phosphorescent fonts and four likes. I can't think about anything that isn't my doomed by the narrative boy jon snow. I had like two second to breath a little when I had my three days jamie phase but now nothing can distract me from jon snow. not hotd second season, not cregan stark's beautiful face JUST SEEING HIM MADE ME THINK ABOUT JON not jace's beautiful crying face not emma d'arcy breathtaking acting. just jon snow. and this isn't a cry for help is a send me every good jon snow fic you have please!!!! doomed by the narrative jon snow has full control over me.

[crimsoncold]

Hello fellow Jonsa fans + Jon Snow Fans in general...

I'm pretty confident in saying that the treatment/characterization in later seasons (as well as the overall show ending) for the Starks- specifically for Jon Snow- was in a number of ways a massive disappointment for many fans.

And over the years I've waffled back and forth between hope and pessimism on how accurate the show ending of several characters is for predicting what will/would happen to them in the books ...

So to organize my thoughts (and try to come to some conclusion) I've tried my best to formulate possible attitudes, reasonings, justifications, and supporting evidence for why fans might be anything from strongly opposed to the idea that the endings will be the same, to willing to believe the two endings may generally resemble one another, or for thinking/being resigned to the idea that they will essentially be the same in all the core aspects...

So I am curious, after having a couple years to ruminate on how the show handled its characters ...

What are your thoughts on Jon Snow's show character arc and ending, specifically on how it would (or will) compare to his book arc and ending?

... and which of the following opinions/attitudes on the subject do you identity with or agree with the most?

(Warning this post is kinda rambling and long - and im sure other people have phrased their thoughts on this issue much more eloquently/with more supporting evidence/or at least while being less admittedly biased- I really tried my best to be open minded and be non-critical for all the options but I think I failed for the last one lol - but its kinda cluttering up my head and I wanted to put it into words to clear things out a bit

...but I'm also curious about how others feel about this issue so I'll post this write up as is and then I will post a more succint follow up in the form of a poll to see how fans in general are leaning on this issue in a few days....)

Starting out strong with...

ATTITUDE #1: they will NOT be the same because the show choices and ending don't actually fucking make any sense?

His name being ... aegon?...because he is "the prince that was promised"?....ummmm Rheagar already had a child that was his "prince aegon"...who (other than the showrunners) would think it a good choice to name the next son the same thing...also why would Lyanna who has been kept from her family and left to bleed out alone after childbirth give a shit about "Targaryen" prophecy nonsense and choose this name? Her father and eldest brother have been murdered, she presumably wasn't allowed to contact or leave to go back to her family, and she was left by the prince to endure pregnancy and childbirth with improper care, and as a result she is now bleeding to death without knowing what will become of her son... but sure if she names her son something it would be Aegon and not after her deceased father or brother or just literally any other a name that is not from house Targaryen (you know the people responsible for her family's brutal deaths and her own likely impending death).

And if despite book! Lyanna's apparent wisdom shown in her appraisal of Robert's flaws we are supposed to accept uncritically the show idea that she went willingly (or at least that she stayed willingly) with a prince who was being unfaithful to his wife and had abandoned his children in kingslanding and who ran and left his mad King father behind in power who would then go on to gruesomely murder her family... even if we ignore this and the fact that she should rightfully hate Rheagar at this point (or at least see this prophecy nonsense as Rheagar's own brand of madness) why would she choose this name if she needs her son to be protected (i.e. be hidden by his uncle from everyone who would like to wipe out all remaining Targaryens)?

Furthermore....

(Tyrion = known kin slayer/presumed king slayer/a fucking lannister the house who had been complicit in invading and slaughtering nobles and peasants alike in the north and riverlands in support of their rule through a false king/accomplice to a Targaryen lead invasion and the mass slaughter of KL= righteous dude and new Hand to the King?)

(Jaime Lannister= sworn member of the kingsguard/infamously breaks his vows and murders the mad king/his reputation is permanently ruined/for years never tells anyone his motive for killing the king was to prevent him from wiping out the entirety of kingslanding with wildfire/yet still gets to maintain his position and isn't executed or sent to the wall or even stripped of his position because his dad is scary, his family is powerful, and now they have direct ties to the new King?)

(Jon Snow= is a stark both through his mother and the man who raised him as a father/ from a house that is respected even loved in the north- the family that is the heart of the story/he works to make peace with former enemies and band people together against a massive threat beyond the wall that could kill everyone in westeros/kills a known violent and a mass murdering invader who had control over a creature that is the narrative equivalent of a weapon of mass destruction/consequently a queen slayer and kin slayer/is related to both the new King of Westeros and the QITN who were raised with him and presumably love him and want to protect him = is punished for his actions through exile to the Night's watch?

... which doesnt even have a purpose anymore now that wall is destroyed, the dead have been destroyed, and the north has since allied with their former enemies who they were previously using the wall and the Night's Watch to defend against

... and this is upheld in the north and by his family despite the fact that the stark kids held the fervent desire/wish to return to their home but more importantly to be reunited with their remaining family in any way possible... despite the fact that the north is independent and should give absolutely no fucks what the rulings and demands are from armies and lords who previously were you know fucking invading them, fighting against them, or at least were in no way the north's supportive allies?)

This does not track at all... terrible and inconsistent writing/world building..."one million years dungeon" to whoever thought this would be well recieved or an impressive ending... book end and arc for Jon will not be like this at all.

ATTITUDE #2: Not the same (*beyond perhaps a few superficial aspects*) because narratively and thematically it doesn't make for an effective or engrossing story?

Jon's identity, his desire to know who his mother was, his deep underlying wish to live up to the expectations of his father and be the type of son that through his actions reflects well on his father rather than one who brings shame simply through his birth, the curiosity secrets and rumours surrounding his mother and birth that that are shown to reach far beyond the borders and nobles of the north, and the truth around his biological mother and father.... All of these things should have more of an impact emotionally for the character as well as more consequences and impact plot-wise or politically speaking than it ever did in the show!!!

e.g. Jon's identity issues have generally centered around the desire to know about his mother and a desire to be a son that makes his father proud/reflects well on Ned Stark's memory despite his bastard status... an "oooh look at his Trueborn Targaryen Prince name" moment is not a satisfying closure to this question/conflict... yes knowing the identity of his mother is important to him... but so will the fact that Ned (his uncle/foster father) chose to raise him as his own to protect him... and chose to name him Jon after the man who fostered Ned, loved Ned like a son, and who revolted against a king when he called for Jon to execute his two wards Ned and Robert... emotionally speaking it's Jon's stark half (and the fact that Ned isnt his bio father) that should matter to him the most to jon... far more than the "Secret Targaryen prince" thing... there is little catharsis available for Jon in his Targaryen ancetry-with the exception perhaps of what it might mean for his future/his dreams of marriage and children (more on this later)...

Jon's internal conflict should matter (his dreams of being a father/husband and recreating the family he has lost, his desire for lordship over winterfell, his devotion and love of his trueborn siblings, his shame around his birth and the ambitious dreams that he rejects but still holds, his struggle against all these in taking the black/rejecting the offer of lordship of winterfell/and supporting his "sister's" claim, the potential issues caused by the conflict between Jon's determination to protect the rights of his trueborn "siblings", Robb's will that goes against this wish, and the question of who the Notheners will wish to crown when Jon reunites with Sansa or perhaps one of his surviving "brothers", these things need to be adressed with nuance rather than written off as if they never existed like they did in the show

The Stark kids deserve better, they are essentially the heart of the story, they are constantly thinking about/ longing for their dead kin as well as their lost but surviving siblings, some (i.e. Jon and Sansa) are both literally dreaming about recreating their lost family through their own potential marriages...so all of their reunions need to be important emotionally for the characters and should be more meaningful in terms of narrative... anything rather than the nonsensical, unnecessary, and poorly justified or resolved conflict and mistrust the show gave us between the stark kids....anything other than all the Starks (willingly) being separated once again at the end (which writers thought this made for a powerful or emotional end for the starks...and what on earth is wrong with you?)

The many parallels, shared dreams, and increasingly apparent foreshadowing that point towards Jonsa/a Jon and Sansa marriage in the books (too numerous for me to list here) will need to pay off - (Arguably even the show hinted towards a Jonsa romance with the tension, intimacy, longing stares, jealousy and love triangle-esque framing in later seasons. All of this takes more than just actor chemistry... as in writing directing setting framing lighting etc.) and GRRM won't chicken out over some foster sibling/cousin incest like (presumably) the showrunners did.

The book (and show even) established clearly that people who choose to burn other people alive during battle/as a method of execution/or for human sacrifice purposes are being set up as distinct flavour of villain in the story (Stannis and Melisandre, Tyrion and Cersei, Aerys and Daenerys)... Jon himself is shown to unequivocally be against using this sort of inhumane execution on ones enemies in both the book and the show (i.e. recall his plotline with Mance Rayder/Mance Rayder's son) ... why on earth would he ever trust or be emotionally or willingly romantically involved with someone who does this at a large scale (and who comes from a family that previously murdered his own kin in this horrific manner)... this makes no sense for his character or his arc.

While overall the story certainly makes for a remarkably dark/gritty fantasy tale...to end the entire series by just once again hammering home the idea that nothing we do matters, people dont get what they deserve, there are no happy endings in reality, etc. would leave things on a sour note and not be a particularly meaningful or thematically or emotionally satisfying end ...hell A dream of spring (Formerly A Time For Wolves !!!??!!!) implies a hopeful (though given the series perhaps a bittersweet) end that the show ending (particularly the Stark ending) absolutely did not deliver on

So ultimately to be a satisfying story the character arc/book ending for Jon Snow must, by default, be significantly different than that of the show.

ATTITUDE #3: the endings will not be very similar simply because the show already changed too much storywise/characterwise for it to match what happens/will happen in the books

(Almost too many examples to list for this so I'll only mention a couple of the more grevious ones)

They've written off too many hugely impactful characters (remember lady stoneheart?!!?!!!)

and changed plotlines in too many profound ways (e.g. remember when Dorne and House Martell characters mattered, made sense, were consistent? How Jeyne Poole's narrative was simply given to Sansa?? WTF!!!!! Absolutely the most grevious thing the Showrunners inflicted on her that had NO basis on her material from the novel)

or in general just handled plotlines just too poorly (The long night/invading dead gets a lot of build up- multiple books and seasons- and should be handled more effectively than they did in the show- where it was written off resolved rather quickly to get back to the dragons i mean political intrigue...There is no easily defeated big bad in the books... show!Night King does not have a counterpart or exist in the books!)

and they reduced, white washed, or generally dumbed down characters too much (look what they did to Varys and Tyrion... but also look at Jon!!!!!!

Jon Snow of the books is young but smart, he is sneakier and sassier, and under the right circumstances less beholden to "honour" and much more ruthless than Ned or his own show counterpart (ALSO he is notably against people who execute their enemies via burning alive -just putting that out there again)... so we shouldn't expect Book!Jon to have the exact same behavior/choices of show!jon.

... hell even show jon of early seasons was vastly different- more interesting and thought out and still you know treated as a main character- rather than a kowtowing 1 dimensional man they tried turning him into in order to prop up the Dragon Daenerys plotline)

.... and showrunners just made too many narratively unsupported choices (Bron as Lord Paramount of the Reach. Why? Are ALL the Tyrells dead? Are all other noble houses in the reach dead? What is even happening here?)

Based on all we know from comparing the completed show to the published books in an albeit unfinished series... and how obviously they have already been proven to differ significantly... as fans we shouldn't expect or resign ourselves to the idea that show ending = novel ending... because from what we know for a fact happens in the books has already shown to be massively changed in the tv series.

ATTITUDE #4 & #5:

The books will be similar to some (but not all) aspects of show Jon's later seasons plotlines/his overall ending...

OR

the book will be similar to most aspects of later seasons of the tv seasons -in terms of Jon's arc and his overall ending...

BUT!!!!! crucially these things will be handled better or at least with far more nuance than the show

The showrunners had a general outline so one has to accept that at least some (or even all) of the major aspects of plot and character arcs will be consistent .... they will just be better built up to and justified through better writing and the sheer aspect of getting to read and understand a character's thought process rather than trying to decipher meaning through the scowls/stares/and increasingly poorly written dialog of later GOT seasons.

Specifically, for Jon's later seasons narratives... well perhaps he would be willing to work with people who are violent, unhinged, or dangerous in order to fight against the white walkers, he absolutely is willing to make allies with long standing enemies of the north in the interest of saving the north/all of westeros from the dead (i.e. the free folk), he definitely would be willing to lie to them about his loyalty and respond to their romantic or sexual advances if they pushed him... simply in order to stay alive and to fulfill whatever his mission is amongst his people's enemies (refer to his past interactions with Ygritte and the free folk), he is definitely ultimately willing to "betray" said "allies" and "lover" when their intentions and actions violate his own moral principles or are a threat to his people.

He would definitely sacrifice his own honour (through breaking vows, kinslaying, or queen-slaying) if it meant protecting his family and you know protecting the entire population of westeros from an invader pushed over the edge... who has just committed mass murder of innocent civilians (just look what he is willing to do/what vows he is willing to forsake for the saftey of his sisters/cousins in both book and tv show)...

So some of the show canon/plot/and choices would hold up in the books... so long as they are done with better motives/and while being able to look into Jon's thought process (political!Jon theorists rise! this is the only way this plotline makes sense without assassinating his character).

As for the the Stark/Jon Snow ending (Bran ruling the south, an independent North ruled by Sansa, Jon exiled beyond to wall, and Arya leaving westeros and her family behind)... well I can find satisfaction with and confidently stand by the idea of some of the general outcomes holding true (i.e. an independent north, Sansa reclaiming the north and her identity as a Stark, and that of Bran as king).

... Arya's and Jon's endings are perhaps harder to support ...so maybe they will be different in the books?

Having the freedom to explore and go on adventures seems a long held dream of Arya's, and after the very traumatic and dangerous way this dream of her's came true perhaps her once again experiencing freedom from the expectations put on noble born girls and feeling actual inspiration to travel and discover new places (rather than it being based in necessity) will be a satisfying end... so long as it's not a permanent separation from her home and siblings.

As for Jon's exile... well it's perhaps the hardest to support? but it could potentially stand in the books as well- it could fit a more bittersweet tone that could suit the end of the series that was often quite dark...

Also there are potentially some supporting narrative paralells for Jon say marrying or having a child with Sansa before they are ultimately separated (e.g. Bael the bard, King-Beyond-the-Wall having a child with Lord Brandon Stark's only heir and daughter; or perhaps a reversed version of the historical Jonnel and Sansa Stark marriage... in this case a male relative marrying a female heir to protect her claim rather than to steal it... and this time its the wife who remains and keep rulership of winterfell after "losing" their spouse, instead of the reverse happening)... so this could unfold in a manner that simultaneously fulfills the heavy jonsa marriage + children foreshadowing while still in a way corresponding to the general jon snow ending of the show of exile/leaving with the free folk...

On the other hand if Jon and Arya's endings are the same in the book format perhaps these less satisfying fates could still serve to at least provide interesting narrative parallels to the previous stark generation

(Brandon & Lyanna-Robb & Rickon... beloved siblings who died tragically and live on through the love and terrible grief of their siblings,

Ned - Sansa... inheriting what would have gone to their older brother... but are left alone to carry the burden of ruling winterfell/the north and the only surving stark who will marry and have children to carry on the family line

Ned - Sansa & Bran... who survived a war that killed many family members, going on to inherit rulership (in some form) that would otherwise never have been theirs, and perhaps the most lonely aspect they are ultimately separated from their family by duty, vows, or the choices from their surviving sibling(s)....

Benjen- Arya & Jon, surviving non heir/non ruling starks? who ultimately - perhaps through some combination of grief over their losses, desire to find their own purpose beyond what is offered to them as a non heir member of a noble house, or due to vows they have sworn in the past- leave their surviving family and home behind to make their way in life somewhere else, returning to winterfell/their ruling siblings and surviving family only rarely (if at all), thus making for a slightly more bitter than sweet end for the starks who survived the would be annihilation of their house...

So for these reasons I believe some of these (or even all of these) perhaps controversial and unsatisfying show choices, plot points, and endings around the Starks or Jon Snow could also occur in the books... they will just be presented better.... more in character, with more thought out build up and justification, with more emotional nuance, and in a manner that does address or correspond with the foreshadowing in the books.

ATTITUDE #6: I have come to terms that it makes sense that book ending and show ending will essentially be the same for... various reasons?

...ummm because it just makes sense to me? i don't find it an unlikely or unsatisfying end so I'm fine with it and feel certain it will be the same in the books?

Or because the show ending was admittedly a trainwreck but since I am pessimistic I dont expect a happy or even simply a narratively or thematically satisfying ending to the book series at this point, so yes they will be the same?

....because I think that the showrunners despite how crappy they handled the plot/characters in the later seasons (or occasionally through out the entire series) have to be in the know about major plotpoints and overall series ending so fans must just accept that show ending (for the most part) = book ending?

... breaking the format here but im not sure why else Jon or Jonsa fans would feel this way?...

but I am genuinely curious though so i guess please feel free to share any compelling foreshadowing/hints/justifications in the novel series you've found that either

a. supports showrunners choices regarding both some of the questionable show!Jon Snow's actions...

Choosing to go to dragon stone himself to negotiate with an invader rather than sending a representative, bending the knee without better negotiation, clearer threats against his family, or without even listening to the advice of his northern advisors or family,

Willfully ignoring potential allies available to him (e.g. the vale) Instead of you know finding ways to negotiate and make use of them when he needs to or it is necessary for his survival and then choosing later on how to handle the people who are not strictly speaking trustworthy or are ultimately still an enemy (you know like he did in the past?)

Letting himself be crowned KITN without any meaningful internal struggle or backlash and without requiring much persuasion from his family or advisors...despite this occuring in the presence of one of his trueborn "siblings" - you know Sansa (anyone else remember Jon saying that winterfell belongs to her when he rejects Stannis' offer of ruling the winterfell? That feels like its significant)...and despite the fact that he loves and remained loyal to his trueborn "siblings" and had previously defended his "sister"'s claim to winterfell and the north at the expense of his own opportunity to gain rule over winterfell.

Lending support/men to a Targaryen invader with a checkered past regarding her ... -having kept slaves and/or profiting off of slavery -utlizing "former" child soldier/slaves for her army or servants

(Recall slavery being a big no-no in westeros and particularly the north? Like execution or exile levels of bad?)

-her incredibly controversial and destructive past weilding of her weapons of mass destruction dragons and her questionable ability to control her child eating beasts

Or

b. Supports Jon Snow's ultimate fate (of a sort of tragic hero, banished by his cousin/foster brother for doing what was right and necessary ... just because it went against the restrictive and high standards regarding the proper and honourable treatment of royalty and ones kin ....and because letting him free would upset the handful of allies that said late (and im sure so highly venerated) mass murdering invader/would be dictator had by the end of the story,

And Him not being given refuge in the independent north, by the people who supported/elected him king, or by the express invitation the cousin/foster sister who loves him and has both authority equivalent to that of her brother king while also not being beholden to said king's rulings... and instead being essentially in exile from both the southern kingdoms of westeros and from an independent north and thus the entirety of his surviving family.

Yes I'm totally against show Jon Snow's ending and much of his characterization/plotline in later seasons...and generally find it difficult to swallow/believe the idea that book!Jon's arc/end would be the exact same as that of the show!jon

...but i dont actually intend to just be judgemental of/argue with/try to disprove Stark/Jon fans who believe that what happens with book!Jon will be the same as what happend to show!jon.... I may personally find it hard to accept (both emotionally but also based on the ample available evidence of the significant changes the show had already made from the available published source material)

....but I am genuinely curious about how people feel about this idea if they do truly believe things will be the same for book! jon as it was for show!jon (Satisfaction? Happiness? Anger? Disappointment? Resignation? Acceptance? Indifference?)

.... and also about what evidence/foreshadowing they have found in the books that has persuaded them (and is maybe not discussed seriously enough by fandom) and could have rightfully been included in my reasonings for why people believe that the book ending and character arc for Jon Snow will/would be the same of that of the show.

So my closing thoughts...

Have i missed any notable reasons or evidence that you think would sway someone to one attitude/opinion or another?

... have you, like me, also occasionally been on the fence about how closely what happens in the books will resemble what happened in the show?

... has anything in this post (or another fandom post) changed your mind? Or served to further solidify your position/opinion on this topic?

...do you feel more or less certain about your own stance on the comparison between show and book Jon Snow's overall arc/ending?

... is anyone feeling less resigned/pessimistic about what will happen regarding Jon/Jonsa in the books now? (Because that was sort of my goal here in this thought exercise... thinking through arguments that either support or go against the idea that Jon- and Jonsa- will have a happier or more fulfilling arc and ending in the books than they did in the show... and hopefully finding and summarizing enough evidence to persuade myself- and other fans- that the book outcome will be a more positive one than the show, for characters and fans alike!)

- Crimson Cold

[a-song-of-art-and-fire]

The Assassination of Jon Snow by the Coward Bowen Marsh

"And in their hands, the daggers."

The painting was fairly straightforward, lots of my classic Night's Watch black, plus heavier snow weathering than usual as this is as far into winter as we've seen in the series. The blood was the main feature here - I'm not usually a 'blood for the blood god' guy, but you can't have someone getting Caesared without a bit of gore! The blood is mostly UV resin with a red wash, making it vivid and slightly translucent. The hanging drips were done with clear fishing line and letting UV resin drip down before setting it.

Following on from last weeks post, we have the full Ides of Marsh. Every time I think about the long wait for TWoW (ie. Often), I think about the idea that poor Jon has been face down in a snow bank for... coming up on longer than he's been alive! Jon Snow's arc in ADwD is probably my favourite single story arc in all the books, and the assassination is the perfect culmination to it. The classic fantasy hero rallying his troops and allies to save his sister from a flaying rapist, charging off and... immediately getting shanked by a middle manager worried he hasn't considered the overheads.

I lucked out with how many of the standard Night's Watch minis are dual wielding sword and dagger, making it easy to snip off the swords and get a good "daggers in the dark" look. (I know Wick dropped his knife and Bowen left it in Jon, but two empty handed guys doesn't work visually to say "this is a murder").

The left mini is a good chubby Watchman who I always felt had a good Bowen Marsh look, I think in some ways I prefer this mini to my main Bowen Marsh. The middle mini is actually meant to be Benjen Stark, which would be a real twist! I used him because that knife down look is just too perfect to pass up, and the tall and skinny look made me think of Wick Whittlestick, described as gangling. The third is Ser Genericus, as I was surprised to reread and see how brief the description of the assassination is, and we don't actually know the other conspirators! Seems wrong that an event can weigh on my mind for over a decade and only be half a page long.

I had a devil of a time finding a Jon mini that wasn't in a combat action pose, this one is actually meant to be Satin! I'm very sad not to be painting one of my favourite underrated characters, but he's perfect for a more vulnerable looking Jon that reminds you he's just a kid, and the pose was bang on for fumbling for Longclaw/staunching a bleeding wound.

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

I agree completely about Arya. She's a child slave, not some employer.

I hope I'm not getting out of topic by adding that I also disagree with that post's description of Jon ( I promise if someone reads my post until the end, I actually connect it to Arya as well)

Jon Snow is made to clean toilets during his training period in the Night's Watch. As the son of Ned Stark, he thinks he's too good for that shit and this attitude wins him no friends among his peers.

Ok, this is the part I agree with

After the little lecture from the blacksmith, he makes a monumental effort to pull his head from his ass, but still throws a hissy fit over being made Lord Commander's personal steward instead of a ranger like he's supposed to be.

Jon is rightfully angry when he's not made a ranger because it's obvious that among all his peers, he's the most skillful with the sword (aka the most suited to become a ranger). That's not only his personal opinion, even his fellow trainees are shocked he wasn't made a ranger. All his previous life he was denied things his siblings got, not because he was less worthy than them but because of his bastard status. So when he's denied to become a ranger despite being the most skilled of the lot, the unfairness hits hard bc it's not the first time he finds himself a victim of unfairness. So it's deeper than "Jon is still a snob who doesn't want to clear toilets"

As Commander himself, he never cleans a toilet, but is obsessed with their supply of toilet paper.

Between the time Jon threw "a hissy fit" and him becoming Lord Commander, he actually cleared Old Bear's toilet (among his other steward duties). Considering that Commander Mormont was happy with Jon being his steward, he probably did a good job with the task he was given. He has cleared more toilets than he average westerosi noble and he has complained less than the 95% POV characters would do in his place.

The last sentance also applies to Arya. So it makes me wonder, why make jokes about the only two Starks who have actually done labor in their lives?

If your take on many of the characters in the asoiaf series is based on the metaphor of toilet cleaning, with a few jabs thrown in that does nothing but reinforce the same lame ass take that you and your fellow people in the fandom circle agree on, then that in fact is no more clever than a brick resting on a dirt mound.

Now this is a funny post I guess. A clever post, OP thinks for sure. They preface it by saying that the best metric to judge someone is by finding out how, they feel about toilet cleaning. And of course, they say, since Asoiaf is about a bunch of noble borns, their aversion to toilet cleaning shines through in immaculate detail. The few exceptions out of those nobles are included in op's post, but the final conclusion is that all but one of them is normal about toilet cleaning.

And I absolutely have no qualms with Op's conclusion. To each their own after all. But since, in their very own style, the post has the same old flavour of insinuating that Arya Stark only plays at being disadvantaged after Ned Stark's death, I felt like I should impart some more flavour to balance it out.

As we see in the above excerpt of Op's toilet cleaning adventures, it is implied that the problem Arya has is with the toilet cleaning in itself. For those who are still confused, the metaphor of toilet cleaning references the manual labor that goes in running a castle- scrubbing floors, fetching water, delivering messages etc. So the way of life a lowborn is forced to live in Westeros. I can't help but see how even when op uses the word "slave" in reference to Arya's position in Harrenhal, it never really got translated in their understanding of what slavery means. Being a slave/prisoner of war in Harrenhal meant that this wasn't an employment. This was the complete ownership of Arya by those who instructed her and thus by those, who had the command of the castle. Pretty sure that slavery which has been the running theme of Grrm's books is said to be unbearable even when the slave is wearing the golden collar in place of chains (remember Daenerys?). In my understanding, Arya hates herself and everyone involved less for the toilet cleaning and more for the fact that this toilet cleaning is forced on every single prisoner of war, and they can't say no because saying no leads to death. Like pretty sure she witnessed a girl getting raped every night and when the girl finally said no by attacking her rapist, she was promptly cut down. I also have this passage that details what led up to Arya's toilet cleaning slavery at Harrenhal. Let's have a look shall we?

Their captors permitted no chatter. A broken lip taught Arya to hold her tongue. Others never learned at all. One boy of three would not stop calling for his father, so they smashed his face in with a spiked mace. Then the boy's mother started screaming and Raff the Sweetling killed her as well.

Arya watched them die and did nothing. What good did it do you to be brave? One of the women picked for questioning had tried to be brave, but she had died screaming like all the rest. There were no brave people on that march, only scared and hungry ones. Most were women and children. The few men were very old or very young; the rest had been chained to that gibbet and left for the wolves and the crows. Gendry was only spared because he'd admitted to forging the horned helm himself; smiths, even apprentice smiths, were too valuable to kill.

They were being taken to serve Lord Tywin Lannister at Harrenhal, the Mountain told them. "You're traitors and rebels, so thank your gods that Lord Tywin's giving you this chance. It's more than you'd get from the outlaws. Obey, serve, and live

Obey, serve and live. That's the toilet cleaning op of the excerpt references to. And then there comes the topic of Arya mellowing out to the toilet cleaning (slavery) after her very own "murder-by-proxy spree". Now I don't mean to assume, but it feels like op has gone down the same drain of Arya the murder baby trope, where it is believed that murdering people is just another way for Arya Stark to decompress after a stressful week at work. When a slave is forced to slavery, and gets the means by which they can attack the slaver to strike down their chains- I am pretty sure it is natural that they would feel some type of way about it. They would feel that now they have some control and is no more the toilet cleaning mouse. The regaining of agency is the difference between the mouse and the wolf. It is less about toilet cleaning and more about agency since, Arya "the once toilet cleaning mouse" seemed to voluntarily want to be a part of the crew onboard of a ship. Now idk much about sailing, but this I can say, being on a ship earning your keep involves a looooot of toilet cleaning for sure.

I have no more energy to dissect the last throwaway statement but I am happy it is finally being recognized that the death cult is truly a way to cope, when half of your family is dead and you can't do anything about it because the people in power have caused that death. Hopefully it would soon translate into seeing the list as a coping mechanism too and no more bullshit about being a mindless murder baby

[captaingondolin]

i see the people who watched got, inbox me if you want to have very loud feelings about a certain pairing, you know which one i mean

also if you have good fic recs, i don’t know anyone in this fandom, where should i start

[ladywinterwitch]

Game Of Thrones (Headcanon) - Crushing/Jealousy

Y'all I really hope this doesn't suck because the tumblr page literally refreshed as I was almost done writing so it saved NOTHING and I had to re-write every single word so. Ngl I might've shed a tear but we're not gonna talk about that :). I mixed the 'Them having a crush in you' and the 'Jealousy trope' for this one. Also. I don't know how many of these Headcanons I'll write but regardless even if I do switch up the characters or format for the posts every now and then, don't panic lmfao If I stopped I would tell you. Apologizing for any eventual errors! They'll be fixed.

Warnings: mentions of sex but nothing explicitly nsfw (okay maybe be aware for Oberyn idk), cursing, nothing much really

*I will try to keep the gender descriptions vague, just like the time periods and avoid subplots unlike the other two parts simply because I wouldn't want to make it seem like mini series or something that you kinda have to 'catch up on', I hope that makes sense.

Main masterlist and other headcanons

Lmk what you think if you feel like it :'D

ROBB STARK

Robb is painfully smitten with you from the beginning. This in the very first times made him almost quite shy, but once he gained some confidence and some desire made its way along with the platonic feelings, well. He could be very sweet one second, and make you blush on purpose the moment after. With the whole Winterfell heir/oldest Stark kid thing he never lacked much in the confidence department and it was clear in more ways than one. He is the literal defintion of prince charming. Probably the embodiement of those brave and handsome heroes his sister Sansa liked to read so much about.

Depending on the time of his life in which he met you, he would be more or less careful of showing his feelings. If he were still in Winterfell, with his family and friends around, he would allow himself to be a little more carefree, especially if his father was still the lord of the castle. Catelyn would be a mixture of anxiety and excitement, Robb being her first born and having his first actual experience with love. Ned on the other hand would be just heart warmed by seeing his son being such a good and caring young man, like he raised him to be. Arya would probably either be quite uninterested or befriend you, depending on how much she could relate to you. The same thing is worth for Sansa, even though she would still be quite interested in how things played out between you two. Theon would be annoyingly teasing him about his crush, meanwhile Jon would be more of a listener and give his support to his half brother (cousin).

Depending on how things would've gone with the whole Robert thing, you would've been probably left alone without too much talk of a strategic wedding.

If, on the other hand, we were talking about a slighlty older and king in the North Robb, the situation would probably be more difficult. Regardless, you wouldn't have been the right choice for him to marry, not necessarily for your rank, but because your family wouldn't be strategically strong enough to have important advantages in the war of the five kings. Which is what he needed, but not wanted. Catelyn knew it, he knew it and you knew it.

This Robb would've flirted in the same way more or less, just probably more on the intense and desire filled side than the 'sweet boy' one. And definetly more subtle, for war reasons but mainly because he wanted to keep you safe. Speaking of keeping you safe, he wasn't an overly jealous man by nature, especially if he knew that he was in no position to give you something better than endless pining. But if a man, or another person, were to offend you, or make you feel unsafe, he would definetly pay a little visit in a more appropriate time to the fool in question with his werewolf. He knew better than to not take precautions with the people that he cared about. And after a little scare, he would go to see you and make sure you were alright.

JON SNOW

If Jon has one issue, is how stupidly stubborn he is. Especially when he's younger. This man would rather pin over you for the rest of his life than be honest about his feelings. And you kinda hate him for it sometimes. Regardless of him being in Winterfell as the lord's bastard or a memeber of the Night's Watch, his brooding never changes. Obviously the bigger issue in the second case would be that he literally swore to not take wife or father no children, which made the whole 'being hopelessly in love with you' thing a tad more difficult. In any scenario, he would have that one person close to him to whom he just couldn't lie to. Wheter it was Robb or Sam, he knew that every time you came up in the conversation he could either blush and get out of the topic, or just blurt out his feelings.

Younger Jon would definetly be more awkward and less obvious than Robb, especially because he was nowhere near having the same confidence. He would still be very caring and sweet, just in a more subtle way. If Robb was the kind of guy that would ask you to dance with him or bring you flowers openly, Jon would offer you his fur coat if you were cold or help you get up and down a horse.

He also really enjoys people who kind of understand him as he is and don't try to pressure him that much into acting in a way that it's not himself, and this is honestly one of the things that makes him go crazy for you. He loves how interesting and funny and genuinely caring about him you are. He thinks about you all the time. But gods forbid if he was caught actually having feelings that weren't angsty. He didn't like people that much, but he liked you. Very much so.

You could see through him though, so while you didn't want to pressure him to say more than he wanted, you could get irritated about how stubborn he was sometimes. It happened more than once that other people flirted with you or apparently so, and Jon was never thrilled about that, at all. If you looked around hard enough you could probably spot him in a corner of the room, watching you from afar, brooding as usual. That made you quite sad at times, because you didn't fully understand why he just wouldn't let himself go completely with you. You sometimes played a bit into it, just a tiny bit, to get him riled up. But in the end, you were always going back to him, making sure that you would actually never betray him. He knew that, deep down.

But again, he didn't trust people much, and could get quite protective if he sensed that something wasn't quite right with someone. Before doing anything though, he would often keep an eye on them, and after that if his worries actually were proven somehow to be true, it wouldn't take him much to use a few tricks up his sleeve to scare people off.

Older Jon would be more straightforward, both in personal relationships and with the whole confronting thing. Young Jon liked the shadows, older Jon wasn't afraid to put himself on the spot if he had to.

OBERYN MARTELL

Oberyn having actual romantic feelings was news to him. Many times, especially when he was younger he had questioned himself, 'Am I just horny, or do I care?' and no, the answer is no. He thinks that he got really close at times, but mostly he ended up having great fuck-buddies and occasional dinner companions. Most times he wasn't even interested in actual non-married people, so it's not that it could've gone that far anyway unless he was ready to start an affair. But he didn't care enough for it, way too many problems.

With you though, it was new. You weren't much younger and definetly not completely inexperienced, so it's not long after that you met that you actually had sex. You seemed fine with just having this type of 'fun' relationship, so it was really just him finding himself wanting to spend time with you in other ways. Your relationships had blurred lines for a while to be honest. He was the rich spoiled prince with whom you had occasional sex with, and you were one of the lucky people to get into the prince of Dorne's graces.

Knowing his reputation and generally his personality, it took you a while to actually start to believe that he could be in love with you. Riding horses, dining and drinking together, having sex, spending time together and even painting for fun, to you only seemed the behaviour of a rich prince that had a new 'favorite' of the season. Things started to get a different tone when you noticed how possessive he could be. Not in a properly toxic way, but he did like to get you absolutely flustered in the most inappropriate places, to not so secretly show you off while dressing you with the most beautiful and expensive garments in the realm, putting you at his side at important events and even saying that he wanted you to be just his. Not that you were in the position nor desire to actually sleep around, but that statement definetly put a more defined label on your relationship.

Oberyn usually wouldn't get jealous, but he would be even more confident and showy when he wanted to warn someone off. And then usually get you in a dark spot of the palace and fuck you while he told you you were his. And if someone had some snarky things to say about you, he made sure they didn't do it ever again.

JAIME LANNISTER

Confused, insecure, protective, closed off, romantic, intense, quite jealous, vulnerable

Jaime is complicated. He just is. There's also very little chance that he could've managed to look at someone other than Cersei in his younger years, because their separation was very brief, and the immediate failure of her and Robert's marriage gave them the perfect opportunity to keep going with their toxic relationship. As soon as he gets away from her, and loses his hand in the process, he also starts to struggle with his own thoughts about who he is and who he wants to be.

When he meets you, he didn't even thought about your meeting twice. He observed you, as he always does with people, but thought nothing more of you except your beauty probably. The first time you actually talked though, he did think about it a little harder. It was news to him that someone would actually address him in a normal and respectful way, without being fake that is. He had roughed up during the years, especially since people had started to call him Kingslayer, traitor, backstabber. Any kind of degrading name. No one actually even bothered to make their own opinions or listen to his side. Robert and Ned and the whole lot of other people of the court chose a biased version and went with it.

You didn't. Wiredly enough it left him feeling quite wired, and definetly interested in you. If anything, he was curious to see if you were going to ever speak to him again, and you did. You made sure to acknowledge him every time that you saw him, even at the cost of getting the stink eye from whoever was accompanying you. Jaime started to get more interested, and wanting to know you better. Either of you had any malice in this whole thing. You were both genuinely curious to listen to what the other had to say. And slowly, Jaime started to get more and more distanced from his sister. It's like he was blind, or willingly chose not to see, what she really was. The difference was obvious when he interacted with you.

You did create a genuinely nice connections, and you didn't miss to stop and talk or even walk together when you had the chance. The real turning point for him was when he started to actually think about you. He felt confused and quite scared, to be honest. He was afraid of many things; of the fact that he could actually feel something that wasn't so wrong like what he felt for Cersei, of how worthy someone like him could be of you. These thoughts remained quite abstract, even in his own mind, until he actually felt like he was punched in the gut when you started to get courted by another person.

Now, that, was quite the wake up call. Before you actually became a thing, his general reaction to his own jealousy was sadness and self loathing. So when you got together, knowing that he could actually allow himself to be close to you, his love language definetly became touch. He just loved to touch you, whether it was in an innocnt way or not. It's like he needed it. He would also be quite affectionate and funny, definetly the cockly Lannister in him. Fortunately enough there weren't many times in which he became jealous, but when he did, he usually just fucked it right out of you both, to put it lightly. On the other way, if any type of harm should come your way, now in that case his Tywin genes would definetly come through.

TYRION LANNISTER

Insecure, not overly jealous but anxious about your well being, trusting, sweet, funny, has your back

Tyrion has trauma. He really fucking does. Love? Trust? not his forte, either of them. So was he scared when he realized that he could be falling for you? Shitless. Just the mere fact that he met you in King's Landing made him think the craziest possible scenarios of how either his father or sister could've just come to you and say 'Trick that stupid little monster again, he deserves it'. He lowkey knew that it would've been insane, and he was being paranoid but at the same time you never know with those people.

You definetly made fun of people at court together. You also liked to actually argue about some topics, too. You weren't particularly fond of sewing when you were little, so your father made sure that you were at least well spoken, and honestly you didn't mind reading at all. On that you two would relate a lot.

You actually spent so much time together, and he loved how similiar you were. Mentally, that is. He would never even imagine to compare himself with something that he considered as beautiful as you. And even after making sure that you gained his trust, that remained a big issue for him. When he did actually get a grip and you got exclusive, or at least with each other, your relationship didn't change that much, except the sex and the teasing obviously. Tyrion's version of jealousy was more similiar to Jaime's. He wasn't actually jealous, per se, but he doubted himself and what he could give you more than anything.

You never, ever, gave him reason to, though. In that sense, you probably took more care of him than he did, and he really really appreciated you for that. He would've gladly ran away with you, but you both knew better than be reckless in a place full of backstabbers like King's Landing. You kind of had each other's back, and this understanding between you two allowed you to actually live your relationship peacefully.

Now, if Tyrion did feel that someone on his reach could actually try to do any harm to your or your relationship, Bronn would've taken care of it pretty quickly for him.

[arabian-bloodstream]

About Laenor... I have a theory

So I’m posting this here. (I had previously only linked it.) Now I had actually written this post up before seeing this episode as I had heard about the very real possibility that this was happening. I want to add some further thought to this now.

Call me crazy, but I have a theory about why the show decided to go in such a massive change of direction with regard to Laenor's death. Before I go into the theory itself, I want to talk a bit about Laenor's "death" and what the faking of it means.

There is the obvious avoidance of the dreaded "burying the gay" trope. Yes, this is a good thing. However, House of the Dragon is not written out of thin air. It is not mined from the imagination of the showrunners, even with whatever changes they make. Ryan Condal and Miguel Sapochnik (for season 01) had the Fire & Blood novel from which to take their cues. And in Fire & Blood, Laenor died. He was murdered. Period. It wasn't Condal, Sapochnik, and HOTD deciding to kill the gays. It was from the source material. In choosing to see a way out of that by faking Laenor's death (and his lover's), yes, the show succeeded in undoing that "burying the gay" trope that was in Fire & Blood...

However, and this is quite a big however in un-killing Laenor, it invalidates Daemon and Rhaenyra's marriage. And that, my friends, is MASSIVE. Because by invalidating Daemon and Rhaenyra's marriage it also makes their children bastards just as much as it made her children with Harwin bastards. And making Daemon and Rhaenyra's children's bastards is BEYOND MASSIVE because it is one of their children who sits on the Iron Throne and which the Targaryen bloodline continues...

All the way to Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow. Uh huh.

So, when Condal and Sapochnik (along with George R.R. Martin perhaps) decided to save Laenor, they had to come up with a way to preserve the validity of Daemon and Rhaenyra's marriage. They had to work overtime, twist the story a bit into knots, adding more layers, more scenes to make it clear that, yes, Daemon and Rhaenyra's marriage is valid. This had to be done, otherwise, nearly two hundred years down the road neither Daenerys nor Jon (nor any Targaryen in-between) has a valid claim to the Iron Throne because again every Targaryen that comes after this current bunch comes through Viserys, Daemon and Rhaenyra's son.

So, yeah, making this change is freaking massive.

And here is where I am adding to my post-episode thoughts. There was nothing added that made any indication that Daemon and Rhaenyra are not actually married since they both know that Laenor is NOT THE DEAD!  Now, I do expect this to come up down the road. It simply has to. I mean...it SIMPLY HAS TO because, otherwise, yeah, it invalidates Daemon and Rhaenyra’s (BEAUTEOUS, JOYOUS, MAGICAL) marriage. And more importantly it makes THEIR chlldren bastards. But, hey...

Maybe that doesn’t matter. Maybe that was the whole point of the Corlys and Rhaenys scene. History doesn’t remember bloodlines (or unsaid in this scene the actual truth of marriages real or not). History remembers the name. And history will know and remember that Laenor is dead. That Daemon and Rhaenyra were married. That their children were legitimate. So, maybe, just maybe it doesn’t matter after all.

Still, still, still... to even go there. To even invalidate Daemon and Rhaenyra’s marriage is a lot, the legitimacy of their marriage. Perhaps then that was it, the why of adding that scene with Corlys and Rhaenys--if the intention was to express/explain why it didn’t matter the invalidity because history will remember what it knows--perhaps that was indeed what I wrote above:

They had to work overtime, twist the story a bit into knots, adding more layers, more scenes to make it clear that, yes, Daemon and Rhaenyra's marriage is valid.

So, I asked myself then, why? Why go to such an extreme to save Laenor? In the scheme of things, he's a minor character. He fathers no children of importance, he's a blip in the story, and holds no emotional or narrative weight. I'm sorry to this man, but it is true. And, yes, the 'bury the gays' trope is awful, and we hate to see it, but that's not on Condal and Sapochnik. It's based on the book, and saving Laenor, again, really mucks things up not only for THIS era, but literally for the entire Targaryen line and history as we know it all the way through to Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow.

Again, it's THAT massive. So, why?

And here is where my theory comes into play. The faking of Laenor's death is being presented NOW in season 01 so that viewers are aware of this possibility, see it in action, know that it can be used, how it can be used and that it works. Why? So that come the end of the Dance of the Dragons when Aegon the Elder tells Septon Eustace to write in his journal that he killed Rhaenyra with his dragon, Sunfyre, and that his nephew, her son, watched it happen, that is what history believes.

Aha! (And, yes, I totes wrote that above line before I watched the episode, ya’ll!) History believes, remembers what it is told. Not just names, but what what is written down. It doesn’t remember blood, it doesn’t remember the events as they happen, but what is written down. It’s like the old saying, history is written by the victors. Which brings me back to my oft repeated mantra: Fire & Blood is an inaccurate historical retelling based on biased accounts collated a century after the fact by another (admitted) biased account. It is not the true story.

We are getting the true story now. History remembers not the truth, but what those who were there tell us was the truth. And we know that story one hundred years later because the archmaester who gave us that history in Fire & Blood knew that from the journals, and from Aegon's retelling.

And we knew that Daemon died because of stories told, but it was rumored that he might have lived. Supposedly to run off with Nettles (hah).

So... perhaps, Rhaenyra and Daemon do live in the end. They both make their way to Dragonstone, but are captured by Aegon the Elder. In exchange for their lives, and the life of their son who will be the safest Targaryen of all as heir to the Iron Throne, they leave Westeros, believed to be dead. Just as Laenor does. Rhaenyra has only this one child left (she believes as no one knew that Viserys still lived). To fight further could risk his life. To fight for the throne would put his life at risk. But *this* would keep him safe.

Even after Aegon the Elder died, and Aegon was named King, to come back would put his life in jeopardy because there would be fighting over the throne from different lords and vassals, and Rhaenyra nor Daemon (one would presume) wouldn’t fight against their child. And so in Essos, they would live, believed to be dead by all in Westeros. Their son gaining the Iron Throne, their bloodline carrying on the Targaryen dynasty.

It would explain the saving of Laenor. And it would also tie into how the show has very been clearly setting up Daemon and Rhaenyra as THE OTP love story of this show. And, boy, oh, boy, did this episode further that narrative like WHOAH!!! Sure, many of us online are aware of how the story ends. Those who have read Fire & Blood are aware. However, there are many who don't know.

Frankly, I find it hard to believe that the showrunners would have gone so far out of their way from scene one to set Daemon and Rhaenyra up as this TRUE LOVE story -- with what happened with Jon and Daenerys on Game of Thrones -- knowing how it ends and how it would greatly upset all of those who would have no clue of their ending.

So, yeah, that is my theory. The Laenor "death fake" is a set-up for a Daemyra "death fake" when their time comes.

One final detail: It was Rhaenyra who gave the opening voiceover in the first episode AFTER the events of the Dance of Dragons. Uh huh.

[erithel]

They were just tone deaf w Keith's character writing and the half-galra schtick. You can tell they operated by the rule of cool when they tried to pull the whole "oooo~ summation of your character from a ghostly incarnation" trope and they went with "you're a great leader because it's your galran blood" for what Keith's entire character was supposed to represent. The carelessness was only beaten out by them saying Lance's character is only good because he's dating Allura, which is upsetting.

Keith being half Galra was so fascinating to me when it first showed up in the show. I thought "this is great. There's so much potential here for character development – not just for Keith, but for the rest of the team, as well as any potential worlds they try to ally with in the future!"

And then it just kindof…wasn't a thing. There was a moment of Allura hating him – until suddenly she didn't, and everything was fine after that. There was that brief conversation of Hunk being…not so delicate with the subject, let's say – and then it was never talked about again. But we never saw Shiro's reaction to it. We never heard if Pidge had any thoughts about it. We never got to see how Lance reacted to that news.

We never got to see Keith tell the team. We never got to see how he dealt with the news, himself, because there was no conflict surrounding it, except for the tiny moment with Allura. And then it became clear they had only added that detail in because…what, a Galra is meant to lead Voltron, and that's why Keith became the leader?? Keith wasn't a leader. He's like Jon Snow. Both are great warriors. Both will fight and get the job done and go above and beyond in protecting the things they love. But that's not a leader's job. It's not just about giving inspiring speeches, and having a battle plan. It's about being the one to defuse a conflict between teammates and allies and enemies, alike. It's about going to councils and meetings and political summits and being able to speak calmly and clearly. It's about delegating and standing away from the action sometimes so as to better see the bigger picture. We never got to see Keith learn how to be a leader. We never got to see him grow in that role. We only got to see him struggle with it because it wasn't what he wanted. It wasn't him. And then we got to see him return and suddenly just be the leader he was expected to be. And, like you said, the reason for that was just because he had Galra blood. And that, my friends, is not how to handle issues as potentially deep and conflicting as racism, prejudice, and self growth. (I'm not touching on the Lance's worth subject here because that deserves its own post).

[geek-gem]

Let's talk about Hilda's dad

As you've seen from my latest posts. I've made stuff concerning Hilda's dad and I've mentioned him before. But now I'm speaking more about him. Especially after finding out he does exist in canon.

Many minutes ago or so I got a message from someone by the name of @smol-maru55 who I was nervous to speak to because I worried I might of bothered people with my posts. But Smol was very polite and actually offered me information that literally Luke Pearson himself answered in a review. I thank Smol for sharing me this because this changes quite some stuff.

Especially what's amazing this was before the show aired on Netflix. Including I think this is where the wiki on the show got this information. Luke talks about other stuff but he talk about Hilda's dad. If you guys don't mind I'm gonna share what he said. But I'm gonna keep the link to the interview to show where it came from. Especially he said other other interesting things too.

Luke Pearson: "There are too many stories about absent/crappy fathers turning a new leaf and showing everyone that they were always a good guy really. It's not something I'm interested in getting into. Hilda's dad's never been there for her, and his absence doesn't define her or her mum in any way, so I don't see him as an important character. I may touch on what his deal is eventually, but he's not going to get to swoop in and take up a lot of panel space."

That's what the main man himself said. Including like I said it changes my mind on some things. But I understand where he's coming from.

Related to the topic and I have spoke of this before. I do have head canon on Hilda's dad and it was around the early days of when I was in the fandom and they still are relevant.

Basically I had this idea for why Hilda's dad wasn't around was because of some reasons. Yet it's honestly like I joked about what the fandom would think would be quite depressing. Even for a show like Hilda. While it has it's serious moments. This would of been a bit much.

The idea I had for Hilda's dad is at first he did love his family, he loved Johanna, and he loves Hilda. But over time as Hilda grew up and became more adventurous, something changed.

Hilda's dad never liked the supernatural and how it was so normalized it was. Especially his daughter was embracing it and her attitude actually annoyed him. You have things like Twig living with them, Woodman visiting without permission. Including other things out there.

So I decided I guess at a point and reading a Johanna X Reader story(Yeah I'm saying that I'm not saying where) featured Hilda's dad and he left the family when Hilda was 5.

Basically he left her at a young age, told Johanna he just couldn't handle the stuff that was going on. He wanted a normal life. The guy left to go somewhere else most likely join the military. Which was something I wonder if I should make a thing but it's official I put him as a SAS which is kind of ridiculous.

He literally left because he didn't wanna deal with Hilda's adventurous attitude and other things. Which kind of says something....if the guy can handle one of the most harsh training for one of the toughest special forces in history, and he passes with flying colors....

But he can't handle Woodman and he almost tries to kill him with an axe. Which I joked about with @simonxriley that Hilda's dad wanted to kill Woodman at one point but Johanna got to stop him(because she even knows that's wrong and Hilda wouldn't want that). Especially it didn't phase Woodman and that freaked Hilda's dad out. Also Hilda found out later when Johanna told her.

The story for him I had was he would go to Trolberg after Woodman told him what happened. He visits them and it be this arc of how he wants to do better and be with his family again because he realized he was selfish. But it doesn't go that Luke talks about. This is part of the depressing part.

So the idea of the story of Hilda's dad trying to get together with his family is showcasing after years without them. He tried change but he can't. Because he thought everything would of been normal now in a city but Hilda didn't change and it's some what worse in Trolberg when he finds out the adventures Hilda has been in.

Especially Hilda's dad revealing to Hilda he actually left because of her. Because he didn't want a daughter who embraced the supernatural and all that around her. He has this prejudice against that stuff because it bothers him.

With the lesson being sometimes dad's aren't always as they seem. Even after they left they sometimes won't change and you have to move on from them. Because if they can't change why should you have them back in your life if they won't change for the better.

Basically with Hilda doubting herself that her own father abandoned her because of her personalities. But because of her friends and Johanna she learns it's okay and it's her dad's fault.

Hilda's dad was supposed to be an antagonist in a way. But not a villain despite he's a SAS ex one or not that's scary. He's a guy who can't mature and change, and just appreciate his daughter of who she is.

I wanna make this clear not every dad is shitty, their have been bad ones. But not every dad is bad I want to be clear on that. It was the concept of Hilda and Johanna moving on from him because he couldn't mature and be at peace with everyone. Especially how his daughter grew up.

Thinking in the end he just leaves, tells them goodbye and realizes this never worked. But seriously that sounds depressing like maybe that he does love them but he can't handle it, yet he can handle being an SAS.

Honestly thinking on this I definitely see why Luke didn't wanna do something like this. Even with my intentions being a different outcome. It's just a bit much unless the show takes on more serious subjects if Luke wants to or not.

In fact I even predict and think I could of made something like a reaction to Hilda's dad is that everyone if you love Johanna, if you ship Johanna X The Librarian, or if you love the show a whole lot and every character. The whole fandom just bands together to hate Hilda's dad because why the hell would you abandonded her own daughter because she loves flying on Woff's and she loves wilderness and everything it has to offer? Hilda is literally the best thing ever and a child that's a blessing.

I do think or yeah I remember. Their was an idea I had for an extra character. A younger male who would be a babysitter if Johanna wasn't around, and has a crush on Johanna and it's sort of like a child having a crush on a teenager at first. But basically it turns out that babysitter this guy that really cares for Hilda and her friends is basically the dad she always wanted and the kind of man Johanna always wanted because he actually cares despite he's weird, he tries his hardest.

I'm sorry for rambling, but again I totally get Luke on why he doesn't on go into detail of Hilda's dad. Especially the fact he admits it never had such a huge affect on Hilda and Johanna's life and they aren't defined by it. God I love he actually said mum but he is British.

Still would of been funny if well I originally wanted Craig Fairbrass as Hilda's dad but I want Kit Harington now so I can see all the stupid but funny headlines of how Jon Snow is in Hilda and people getting into the show and I'm like, "Me and a whole bunch of other fans were here first" it be this funny thing.

Also the younger babysitter guy would be voiced by Tom Holland or KJ Apa.

Really I would like to hear what was Hilda's dad's deal of why he's not with his family anymore. It's probably not gonna be like this but I keep thinking he and Johanna weren't a good match and he's actually a good guy. But still that's the thing Luke doesn't like.

I want him to be a good guy now voiced by Kit Harington because my God if a character like that existed on Hilda, he would probably be the worst character because he's more of a selfish jerk than other jerks like Trevor or the Marra. Especially Trevor is just a kid but still though, hope he develops in season 2. Especially the Marra are the Marra, their jerks, but they just want to cause nightmares for folks. Even though Kelly seemed to be alright because Frida showing some kindness towards her after giving Kelly her bunny back. Which might of well not fully changed but had Kelly appreciate Frida more.

Also Victoria Van Gale just kidnapped a baby weather spirit which was shitty. But considering her place was destroyed. She probably learned her lesson.

An asshole dad who left his daughter because he didn't like how she was is a bit too much even for me or....something.

Anyway I wanted to share that. I'm sorry this got long and me rambling.

[sheikah]

Seen what GRRM said about Beric Dondarrion? He said he's a fire wight. So Jon having been resurrected in the same way, by a R'hllor's priest too is a fire wight himself (he's not ice and wasn't revived in ice in spite of what D&D have been trying to push). He's undead. Beric and LSH don't need to eat and don't feel cold. They're undead and so is Jon How can he have a sex drive and be able to get it up and produce kids? Another one of D&D's own inventions that make no narrative sense.

So Beric and Jon died and were resurrected by R'hllorthrough a fire priest. It’s canon that Beric is a fire wight, unbeating heart,blood doesn’t flow, doesn’t eat, drink, sleep. He’s an undead. So how comeneither Jon’s body nor his personality has been affected by his death? Hedidn’t even warg into Ghost to keep his soul intact on the show. Yet anothercase of D&D flunking it, making something pointless. It’s a cop out. Howcan he be fertile and his dick even work when he’s an undead?

Jon is an undead, confirmed by GRRM. He can nolonger feel love, his organs don’t function, he doesn’t have sexual needs, hecan’t impregnate a woman. He’s a wight revived in fire. He’s ice and fire. Ice(Starks, The North, The Wall) and Fire (Targaryens, fire resurrection,R'hllor’s champion).

Okay, so I am going toanswer all three of you wet blankets with one anon so I don’t spam my followers haha.

1.   First thing I am going to address is the ideathat since Beric and LSH are fire wights, Jon must be one. This is notnecessarily true. In show!canon we have already seen, as you three eagerly point out, that likeBeric and LSH, Jon was revived by a priestess of R’hllor. So that being thecase, why doesn’t GRRM mention Jon in this interview when he is discussing firewights? If anyone resurrected by R’hlloris a fire wight, shouldn’t Jon be one too? But GRRM doesn’t mention Jon.Because anyone paying close attention can see that that isn’t the case. When Beric is resurrected numerous times by Thoros, no sacrifice is requiredfor this to take place. It is an almost commonplace occurrence. But Jon’s resurrectionis different. We know from Mirri Maz Duur that “death pays for life.” Thatbeing the case, Shireen’s death paid for Jon Snow’s life. We see her executedwith fire by Melisandre/Stannis and then we see that R’hllor offers nothing toStannis or his army for this sacrifice. Melisandre’s reward for that act isthe ability to restore life to Jon. Even Carice van Houten has confirmed that Shireen’s sacrifice is what broughtJon back. She mentioned in an interview that she believes that fandom hasforgiven Melisandre for the horrific act of killing Shireen because it allowedher to bring Jon back. And death pays for life,suggesting that Jon is alive.

2.   Jon shares none of these symptoms of undeaththat you all mention. If fire wights don’t eat, drink, or sleep, can you pleaseexplain to me why we see Jon sharing a pint with sis?

Or why would he be eating the Night’s Watchfood, the food that is apparently disgusting (since Sansa stares at itsuspiciously and Edd apologizes for the quality)? Jon isn’t eating for fun orto put on a show for anyone. These are his closest friends and allies. He’seating because he has to. Because he’s not undead.

Additionally, if none of Jon’s organs arefunctioning, how is he healing? We know that Beric’s eye doesn’t heal, that LSH’shorrible neck gash doesn’t go away. But Jon’s facial scar heals.

Check out this progression from the momentof resurrection through season 6.

^Episode 6.02

^Episode 6.04

^Episode 6.10

Below is a shot of Jon in the “Long Walk” promo for season 7. You’ll notice his scar is healed considerably, almost gone.

And below is another season 7 promo still of Jon. Scar is faded drastically from early season 6.

So it’s clear Jon’s body is functioning.

As to the claim that Jon, “can’t feel love,”I absolutely don’t believe that either, and there is plenty of evidence to thecontrary.

Would a man who can’t feel love give long,lingering hugs to his sister?

Would he gallop across a battlefield aloneto save his doomed little brother?

No. No, he wouldn’t. But Jon does boththose things because he’s still Jon. He’s still the man we know and love. He’snot some zombie.

3.   Jon is the Prince that Was Promised. There is alot of evidence of this in book andshow and this post is more about why Jon is not a zombie fire wight than it is aboutTPTWP so I won’t go into too much detail but if you believe that Jon isTPTWP (which I do) then it follows that he is a magical sort of being who isobviously more than a simple fire wight, and who would be an exception to anyof the normal rules of resurrection. Melisandre believes he is TPTWP and she isthe one who was able to revive him. This matters. And let’s say just to be fair to you that Jon is some sort of fire wight. We know that there are exceptions towight rules and rules about the undead in general. All ice wights we have seenare pretty much just zombies, completely enslaved to the will of the NightKing. All except one—Benjen. So if Benjen is able to be a sentient ice wightwho follows none of the rules of ice wights, then Jon, our main character, canbe resurrected in the mode of fire wights and still absolutely be a living,breathing man who is still capable of sex and love.

Thanks for the asks!

P.S. @mudinyourlungs I saw someone asking your about this and @oadara I’m sure you’ll get similar asks so maybe my thoughts would be of interest to your guys :)