#this isn't me being against Sol as a character but rather trying to say that I think his emotions are his undoing

[scarymovies]

Sol struggling to tell Mae and Osha apart being contrasted by Qimir instantly knowing which is which in every single encounter speaks volumes about how the two men view the Aniseya twins. Sol's desire to have an apprentice is selfish whereas Qimir's desire to have an acolyte feels like a pure desire to not be alone in the galaxy. It, in many ways, comes across as possessiveness being compared to merely desiring companionship.

Bottom line is that Qimir, at least so far, appears to acknowledge and respect Osha's agency more than Sol was willing to and I think that is very important.

[buttercuparry]

Now that I have slept on it, I feel like I can talk about Ming. I don't really have anything new to say that others haven't said before, but this is just me assembling my thoughts. So it is kind of long

Ming has issues. He has issues that he has never worked on and it manifests in the worst possible way, especially when he feels jealousy. He is used to throwing money at people and them complying to his wishes- he had someone prepare a separate van for him during the ad shoot, people on crew seem to comply to his wishes regardless of what it would mean for the project, he is sure that he can make the new guy act as an escort for him- so you know the usual entitled rich guy stuff but now notched up higher.

Like I said, Ming as a person hasn't changed. And the show isn't trying to have an argument against that either. Rather everything that's happened in the "after" scenes reiterates that while his affections have found a new home, there has been no personal growth. There won't be any redemption- it is what it is.

There also won't be an escalation to Ming being a full on sadist. He isn't a character from Strangers From Hell, he isn't Hannibal. There is nothing of that sort. If anything, he is just like every other abusive and overbearing partner in a relationship. Only in shows like Marry my husband, we get to see the female lead overcoming them, but here we have our protagonist get back with Ming, because something works by the end I guess. It is a standard BL and it will stick to its format and people who are enjoying this show, know all of this and watching it for what it is.

So I don't have a problem with all the "romantic" scenes. I don't think the show is deliberately trying to make you feel sorry for Ming- it is going only as far as it needs to get Joe back into accepting him. So it is more for Joe, the character than about the audience.

Now in the storyline this means that we have Ming who is very reserved around other people, talking only as far as to give an order and that's it. I don't think most characters see the worst of him and it is because he just isn't bothered about anyone outside of those he considers important. So he will be considerate and kind to May. He will give Tong the respect of a brother in law as per the culture that's common to so many Asian countries and he will be his most hateful self with Joe.

I think Ming does suspect that both these people are the same person. We have seen the preview and even this episode starts with an interrogation about the date of the accident and if Joe dreams about anyone. So in Ming's head there is something going on that's no less than a plot of an action movie. Maybe memory loss and plastic surgery...really who knows, anything except for the soul transmigration.

So we see the Ming who locked Joe up in jealousy and the Ming who would have forced himself on Joe out of jealousy. This remains the same. The only difference here is Joe, and he is done with Ming's bullshit. He is done with Ming questioning him about Tharn. He is done with Ming questioning him about working with Sol and what not. The contract Joe entered was about having sex with Ming, which is why he said " I am your dog, aren't I. Come on ask me for the paw then" So basically you bought me for sex, force yourself on me then, I can't do anything about it. But not this...he didn't sign up for this jealousy when he thinks he is once again a Tong stand in.

I will be honest. I do not empathize or sympathize with Ming. I cannot get behind the rhetoric of him being a hurt, broken boy. He drove his lover to death because of his jealousy ( he accepts this), mourns this but then does something horrible to the guy he suspects having some connection to his dead boyfriend because of jealousy.

My question is when the truth is revealed- what happens then? Because Ming wouldn't suddenly turn into a new leaf. So would they be having a conversation? Or would this be something hanging uncertainty over the relationship for eternity.

Or

Would Joe be into it, if he realizes that all of this has been for him and not Tong...

( I know, I know, no need to boo at me for the last line- I am just thinking out loud here).

[silver-wield]

Stygian pisses me off. Along people like her who say wishy washy stuff like "at most he probably thought she attractive he not blind, probably has fleeting feelings but those are bland compared to his feelings for tifa" where? Where are those?! Some talk about bro code but even before the whole Zack thing, he's already so mean in costa del sol. He's already Disgusted at the idea of a "couple gondola event". He's already mean in Remake even after that Cursed resolution. In fact it was after the whole Zack bit that he started trying to be kinder and more tolerating. It's No bro code, that concept was Never a thing he thought of. Do you know what he thought of? He DIDN'T think "oh zack gf, i should back away" , rather it was "oh zack gf, I should be more kinder because everything Zack cares about I care about as well". I bet he was super guilty and saddened about not remembering Zack and not telling his parents what's up. He Loves Zack third to Tifa and Claudia. aerith isn't even close enough to the list, heck he was more cool with barret and yuffie. He hit it off with yuffie so easily and they just met!, she can even understand his perverted tendencies about Tifa. Something not all of them see. Actually it might just be her who knows lol.

Anyway, these Statements Don't hold up and will contradict because it's Not canon. I just don't understand how they see these things that Never existed? Did they play the game? Did we play the same game? I don't understand why even entertain this? Do they Not understand the material given to them? Why are they even here? There is so much about FF7, and "ltd" Doesn't even exist. It's all in their head that Only loves to argue but stray away from canon and factual evidences.

Every time i hear them talk about him and his pov about aerith, it just makes me get turned off of him and want to Never support ct. Heck, I'd be the #1 to fight against it. I'm starting to wonder if they even like tifa, cloud or even this IP. Nojima didn't write him this way for them to downgrade and water down his character and his story and feelings about tifa.

This guy NEVER wavered. And while I think aerith was only saying what she said in her resolution as a sign she Never understood him at all (creepy date was Very Clear he Doesn't see Nor will ever see her that way, yet she missed this lol) and was indeed only talking to herself. All these so called "attraction/ fleeting feelings" some think AREN'T REAL, IT'S NEVER THERE. It's all in your imagination and you have to ask if they even enjoy FF7, tifa, cloud and ct to begin with. Or do they wanna hop onto c /a's train that if zack and tifa didn't exist this that wtvr despite Nojima writing about how these characters are Totally Incompatible in ALL levels.

Srry for the rant. I'm just so Sick of this wishy washy attitude. I think FF7 fans are so lucky to have so much material to fight against these but some ignore them. If this was a real debate, they've lost immediately. You deal with evidence and canon as support. Not use essays, what ifs , and half assed assertions such as those. It just sounds like they're afraid of being wrong. But foolishly they already are. Credibility goes down Immediately.

I understand that frustration when clotis make Aerith apologist comments that encourage dumbasses because they'll use it as a talking point to say "even clotis think Cloud was attracted to her!!!!" which is why I take myself away from those kinds of discussions because it's bullshit and I don't wanna argue with moots.

Before we had the material ulti plus scene showing that Cloud literally didn't recognise Aerith in her red dress a lot of us went "well he's male and she's dressed up 🤷" but then we got the scenario and the script that showed he literally didn't know it was even her and he was just surprised some random woman is walking towards him with a red carpet being rolled out and shit.

And then with the swimsuits, he isn't even looking at Aerith. He glances at her face then immediately checks out Tifa and we get that in the first person pov, so we see exactly where he's looking. Then he gets all shy and stammers, and they flirt. But, even when Aerith also matches he doesn't reply to her saying she needs help with the sunscreen, so he avoids her flirtation. He also constantly shows and tells her that he isn't happy with her yanking him around and calling everything a date.

So, given the literal evidence, no cloti should still be going around saying he finds her attractive. He clearly doesn't.

And idky we must have Cloud seeing her as attractive or being attracted just because she's a woman. She ain't pretty. That's not just me saying it. That's literally what we've been told throughout the games. She was called homely in wall market, Zack said she's only pretty from certain angles, nobody compliments her looks or style, and yet we're supposed to believe that the man who is panting after Tifa Lockhart, who is literally described as a bombshell, would also find someone subpar attractive and be interested in that because he's a man.

That's a pretty shitty way to view Cloud.