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kaypeace21 · 4 years ago

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Lets talk about how these spotify songs confirm byler’s endgame.

Will’s songs

Don’t you forget about me: illustrates Will’s feelings after Mike says they won’t be together for the rest of their lives (but have to get gfs). Love’s “strange” (stranger things). And Will fears change will pull them apart- and as it rains he hopes Mike won’t forget about him/ and questions if Mike will ‘ever love him’. And Mike in the rain (instead of “walking on by?”) calls his name.

“Tell me your troubles and doubts.Giving me everything inside and out and Love’s strange so real in the dark. Think of the tender things that we were working on…Slow change may pull us apart.Don’t you, forget about me.Don’t, don’t, don’t, don’t.Don’t you, forget about me.Will you stand above me?Look my way, never love me?Rain keeps falling, rain keeps falling.Down, down, down.Will you recognize me?Call my name or walk on by? rain keeps falling, rain keeps falling. “

“Don’t you try and pretend. It’s my feeling we’ll win in the end.I won’t harm you or touch your defenses-Vanity and security.Don’t you forget about meI’ll be alone, dancing you know it baby .Going to take you apart.I’ll put us back together at heart, baby Don’t you, forget about me.”

( Will physically took them ‘apart’ -from the photo. But in the end it’s also Mike who fears Will will forget about him too. And Will doesn’t harm Mike by picking at his insecurities - like lack of ‘security' in their relationship. But just says the truth that it’s “not possible” to replace him (after he moves). And of course deep down they know they’ll be together in the end. )

upsidedown: Just Will saying he loves Mike and he turns Will ‘insideout” (like the previous song) and “upsidedown”. And he loves him but he’s “crazy’ (cough ‘crazy together’) to think Mike is all his. But no matter what he’ll always love Mike.

“I said, “Upside down, you’re turning me.You’re giving love instinctively.Boy, you turn me inside out .And ‘round and 'round-Upside down…Instinctively, you give to me the love that I need.I cherish the moments with you… no one makes me feel like you do…I know you got charm and appeal.You always play the field.I’m crazy to think you’re all mine.As long as the sun continues to shine.There’s a place in my heart for you, that’s the bottom line.”

here i go again: Will saying he’s “not going to fall in love” ever (like he said in s3) cause he doesn’t want to waste time on Mike. But he keeps backpedalling on the idea and desiring to love Mike for ‘the rest of his days’. Like how Will said he thought they’d never get gfs but play games for the rest of their lives.

“ (verse 3)And here I go again on my own.Goin’ down the only road I’ve ever known…Like a drifter, I was born to walk alone.And I’ve made up my mind.I ain’t wasting no more time . (verse 4)Just another heart in need of rescue- waiting on love’s sweet charity.I’m gonna hold on for the rest of my days'Cause I know what it means to walk along the lonely street of dreams (verse 5) And here I go again on my own .Goin’ down the only road I’ve ever known.Like a drifter, I was born to walk alone.And I’ve made up my mind I ain’t wasting no more time.BUT here I go again.Here I go again.Here I go again.Ooh baby, ooh yeah.”

Take my breath away: This excerpt speaks for itself that byler is real/endgame after Will moves/s4 and 5. XD

Mike’s songs

Will’s canon Spotify playlist. He ALSO has the song “I’m still standing” by Elton John (who is gay)? Aka cause Mike has a ‘romantic comeback’ with Will XD

I’m still standing’ is a guy bragging about a breakup and now feeling like a kid -lol Mike saying he feels like a 7 y old after the breakup . And moving on -lol it’s mileven). The album is from “to be continued...” I MEAN, C’mon. That’s , very on the nose for s4 byler happening after mileven XD

‘Your blood, like winter, freezes just like ice” (when El broke up with Mike , “cold as ice” played).”I got a taste of love in a simple way.And if you need to know why I’m still standing.You just fade away.Don’t you know I’m still standing better than I ever did?Looking like a true survivor, feeling like a little kid.And I’m still standing after all this time.Picking up the pieces of my life without you on my mind.”

‘Baby I lied’, also reminds me of the byler fight where Mike insults Will/talks about El and then says to Will “ But, we’re not kids anymore. I mean, what did you think, REALLY? That we’d never get girlfriends? Sit in my basement and play games for the rest of our lives?” Causing Will to storm off crying- thinking Mike doesn’t even imagine Will being there for the rest of his life (in favor of a girlfriend).And then Mike (although already knowing of his feelings for Will) realizing that it wasn’t a temporary crush/phase- but that he was in love with Will. And only realizing he can’t live without him when Will left. Making it sink it to Mike that he was lying to Will during their fight.

“Did I say that I’d be okay if you said good-bye? And did I promise you I could take it if we were through? And forget about these feelings inside? Baby I lied when I told you I could walk away .Baby I lied…And did I ever tell myself I could always find someone else? Did I say if you left today it’d be no surprise? Did I ever leave any doubt I could hold up if you walked out? I know I told you that I could survive. Baby I lied…And now that I can see you walking out of my life . Saying good-bye, I realize….”

also ‘Love is a battlefield’ (could be recontextualized/interpreted through a que*r lens given the time period-typical hom*phobia) . Love would be considered a ‘battlefield’. ( The song could be. about 2 people refusing to state their feelings/ holding back from doing anything romantic. Despite both people in the song secretly knowing the other secretly reciprocates mutual romantic feelings) . But they fear pursuing anything cause society says their love would be ‘wrong’. It also reminds me of s3 byler fight . Both ‘standing’ secretly in ‘heartache’. One character in the song(Mike) being mean to the singer who’s angry and wants to go home (Will). Then after that (Mike/song character) begs the singer (Will) to stay but then is mean to the singer again . So in response (Will/singer) gets annoyed and then asks ‘am I in your way? or am I the ‘best thing’ you have?(s2 byler ref). And the singer could internally question if they made a move on the Mike (/song character) would they be rejected? And like that singer ,Will, also throws Mike’s words in his face by saying he actually did think they’d be together for the rest of their lives without girlfriends (cause he may suspects Mike is full of shit?). The singer pretty much says-when it becomes impossible to ignore your romantic feelings for me - you’ll realize you’ll need me ! The song also emphasizes they’re “young” (kids) and Will/the singer questions if their love will get “old” , but quickly decides their love can’t get ‘old’ or die (despite Mike’s lies stating the contrary) * Also saying “no promises” could be a ref to show it’s the opposite of mileven who have the promise line.*Seems like the song is from Will’s pov.

“We are young.(Heartache to heartache) We stand. No promises(No demands)…We are strong. No one can tell us we’re wrong. Searching our hearts for so long. Both of us knowing, love is a battlefield. You’re begging me to go. Then making me stay. Why do you hurt me so bad? It would help me to know : Do I stand in your way?Or am I the ‘best thing’ you have?When I’m losing control.Will you turn me away? And when all this gets old,will it still feel the same?There’s no way this will die. But if we get much closer.I could lose control.And if your heart surrenders-you’ll need me to hold.”

‘Kiss off’ could also be seen through a queer lens aka Mike trying to deny he’s gay but realizing at the end of s3 it’s not a phase. And hopefully learning to accept it in s4.

“I need someone, a person to talk to. Someone who’d care to love. Could it be you?could it be you?Situation gets rough. Then I start to panic. It’s not enough!it’s just a habit! Hey, kid your sick. Well, darling this is it! You can all just kiss off into the air!Behind my back I can see them stare.They’ll hurt me bad . But I won’t mind. They’ll hurt me bad, they do it all the time.”

El’s songs

The power of Love is the 1st song that shows El desire to learn about love despite it scaring her and not really understanding her relationship with Mike. (it’s a very heteronormative idea- “I’m your man /i’m your women” so we’ll fall in love). It also shows her more questionable behavior like spying on Mike. (The later songs illustrate mileven falling apart.)

“Even though there may be times it seems I'm far away. Never wonder where I am'.Cause I am always by your side.'Cause I am your lady.And you are my man...We're heading for something.Somewhere I've never been.Sometimes I am frightened.But I'm ready to learn of the Power Of Love.”

(The second song)Another one bites the dust is about a dysfunctional romantic relationship.

Girls just want to have fun illustrates El’s annoyance with both Hopper controlling her, and Mike (like Hopper trying to control her) and keep her away from the outside world. And just preferring hanging out with Max and not having a romantic relationship.

“ (verse 2)My father yells, "What you gonna do with your life?".Oh daddy dear, you know you're still number one.But girls, they wanna have fun... (verse 4) Some boys take a beautiful girl and hide her away from the rest of the world.I want to be the one to walks in the sun.Oh girls, they wanna have fun.Oh girls just wanna have.That's all they really want. Some fun.”

Don’t tell me lies - (El in s4) saying they’re whole relationship is a lie and she was ‘naive’ to think otherwise.But now she knows her Mike will be with someone else and their relationship was always based on a lie. And she’s ok on her own. “Every move you made before was never meant for real.Over my naivety is this how I should feel?...they'll never ever be another one.Don't tell me lies.Don't tell me lies.Looking back I realize it's always been this way.We must note what has gone and never turn away...Broken loose from indecision.Now I'm alright on my own...I guess I'm alright on my own.”

I feel like i’ve talked the lying aspect to death but it’s an important element to their relationship.

Mike while apologizing to El at the grocery store never apologizes for lying -despite it being the cause of the breakup . He never apologized for lying cause the love is the lie- like Max said “boyfriends lie ALL THE TIME”. And it’s why the camera panned to Will when Lucas asked why Mike lied to her. And he never answers El’s question of ‘why do you lie?!’ (he just looks up silent and guilt ridden). In s2, Mike says “i never gave up on you (to El). “ When moments earlier he says to Max “it took her just like it took Bob.” HE’S LYING AGAIN . He thought she was d*ad.Plus he also fought with Hopper in s2 (’about El’) in Will’s room too. He wasn’t actually calling Hopper the liar he was calling himself “a stupid disgusting liar”out of self hate . That scene was foreshadowing his lying to El in s3 (about his feelings for her). He blamed Hopper for his feelings for Will cause he told himself it wouldn’t have escalated if El had been around to ‘fix him’ . “I BLAME YOU! NOTHING ABOUT THIS IS OK! NOTHING ABOUT THIS IS OK. YOU STUPID DISGUSTING liar, liar, liar, liar”.starts crying.

In s3, mike (in Will’s room) did not reciprocate El’s kiss/ or say ‘i love you ‘ back and had his eyes open while the same exact song plays that robin came out to: called ‘the first i love you’. These are the only times the song plays in s3. The ‘first i love you’ also sounds like ‘the first lie’ - that song played when jancy said they were just friends. it sounds the same cause jancy lied about it not being romantic while mileven lied by saying it was.

Ugh- why are the tags not working? I guess , please, reblog if the tags continue to act up or else no one will see this.XD

#byler #mike wheeler #will byers #el hopper #byeler

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erectionsandtea · 4 years ago

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OKaY GuYS, listen, I'm sorry to do this but I need to get this out bc I can't sleep bc it's bugging me so much, okay?

I want to say a few things to people who claim that mileven is fake/not in love/toxic in ST3 (and I don't mean byler/byeler fans specifically, jsyk), things that have probably been said before but I'm going to say them again anywah

Sorry in advance

1) I DON'T CARE if you think 14 year olds can't be in love. I'm not watching ST for its realism, I just want my babies to be happy

2) "mike and eleven's break up was so colorful and upbeat, so clearly they don't love each other" pREpARE tO BE TOLd

Eleven knows next to nothing about relationships, and most of what she DOES know (if not everything) she learns from max in those moments when max is convincing her to dump mike. Max tells el that she's dumped lucas like five (5) times, and he has always come crawling back. With how little el knows, she's probably thinking that's what will happen with Mike, she will dump him and he will come crawling back and all will good and whatever

"mike doesn't love el cos he didn't cry when she dumped him, also he just sits around in the basement eating cheetos and burping at lucas" while true, it could very be because MaYBE This dumping came out of NOwHERE, literally nowhere. They hadn't fought (yet), everything was fine (or so mike thinks), and then out of nowhere he just gets dumped?? Maybe he was just so shocked and confused that he wasn't registering it at first, mAYbE he was in denial, idk!!

Also I'm sure mike doesn't love el bc he doesn't spend the entire rest of the season trying to figure what he did wrong ,what's wrong with her, and trying to win her back, oh and also caring for and about her even tho they are still broken up Oh WAiT-

3) "mike doesn't love el, he loves will bc" etc, other stuff in s3 -> are we just ignoring that fact that mike is literally ignoring will a lot of the time bc he's stuck on el, I'm sorry but of our boy loved will maybe he would have stopped to play dnd with him

4) pleaSE zTOP comparing mileven's breakup to mike and Will's fight outside castle byers in the rain. They are not the same and shouldn't be compared like they are (and I am NOT saying that mike doesn't care about will at all or anything bC OFC He DoES)

5) mike literally does that cliche movie trope thing where he blurts out his feelings for el without even thinking or before he realizes what he's doing "I love her and I can't lose her again!" You can see the shock on his face after he says it, that shit isn't planned, it was spontaneous which often (THO NoT AlwayS I AdmIT) means it's true/real in tv and movies

6) "if mike loves el, why doesn't he say it back at the end of the season?"

*ahem* fIRST of all, because he already said it! SeCOnD of all, when she says it, she says "I love you too". You don't say it back to the person who is saying it back after you already said it once. It would just sound awkward. It doesn't matter that they both said it at different days/times, they can still both mean it

7) "why does mike avoid saying his feelings when el confronts him at the end?"

Picture this: you blurted out your feelings to the world, and then you find out mAYBE the person for whom you feel has heard it, but you don't know for sure, and they don't say it back. Then that person confronts you about saying it. AND you're a fuckin teenager!! You're probably going to be awkward and weird about it, and you might try to pretend you have no idea what they're talking about bc maybe if they don't feel the same way, you can just brush the whole thing off as a joke or pretend it never happened

8) "mileven's relationship is toxic/unhealthy, all they do is make out" -> they. Are. Teenagers. They're probly horny as fuck, aLSO who's to say they didn't talk and get to know each other over the MaNY mONthS separating seasons 2 and 3? You can't say, I can't say, we don't know, not to mention they did get to know each other (EVEN IF JuST A liTTLE bIT) during season 1, remember? You honestly expect me to believe that horny teens won't be all over each other at every fuckin opportunity?? Please

"well max and lucas weren't making out all the time" well max and lucas could be at a different stage of their relationship, couldn't they, they haven't know each other QUITE as long, haven't been through QUITE as much trauma together...see what I'm saying?

"neither mike or el spend any time with anyone else, their relationship is so unhealthy" um yes they do, after they break up their time together gets quite limited okay, and I will agree with you that I think they needed some of that

9) and maybe, MayBE mileven won't be endgame, okay, it is possible, but I will not sit here and pretend that the reason they are not endgame is because they don't care about and love each other

EDIT: 10) "el isn't ready for a relationship" maybe so but y'all think will is?? (Okay this one may be directed at byler/byeler)

Will basically went from pre-pubescent to puberty without properly transitioning between the two, because he was either missing, possessed, or suffering from ptsd for like two years!! And when he's finally okay (mostly), all he wants to do is pretend things are how they used to be. He's not interested in relationships or love or whatever, poor boy just wants to play dnd and not worry or think about stupid grown-up stuff

The last thing he needs (imo) is MORE drama from a relationship. What he needs is someone to just be there for him.

I know, I'm a bitch, byeler/byler shippers will hate me (if they don't already) or maybe everyone hates me

But

I'm just tired

You can't just claim a ship is real or not but at the sAME TIMe ignore crucial details or facts okay ? (I mean okay, I guess you can, but like why??)

I am going to bed now, of I think of anything else to say, I will add it in the morning, and I am ready for the hate

❤️

#stranger things #mileven #once again will not tag byler/byeler #im not that fuckin cruel to push it in their faces like that or something #ship who you want #im just trying to say you cant ignore details and then claim truth #also i need to rewatch s3 so lmk if i got anything wrong #❤️#goodnight #are watching the same show i feel like we're not #st3 #me trying to counterpoint every single pro-byler argument i see lol #im terrible

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kaypeace21 · 5 years ago

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El is NOT ‘in love’ with Mike

Mileven-shippers be bugging - apparently I’m ‘misogynisitc’ to think Mike Wheeler is gay, cause I’m not taking into consideration how ‘in love’ El is and am therefore enjoying her suffering (despite the fact I’ve said multiple times I don’t think El is in love with him either). So I’m just doing a rebuttal. Not going to even mention the milevens who lap-up the ‘Will is gay and pinning over straight-Mike for the rest of his life’-narrative. But,besides all the s4 movies having the long distance couple break up and admit in at least 4-6 movies that they both knew all along “it would never work out” and that they never loved each other. And El’s character even being happy for byler .The show hints at the fact (pretty heavily) El isn’t ‘in love’ with Mike. But is simply confused (given her lack of proper socialization). I’ve mentioned it before but just some obvious points people like to ignore...

For some inexplicable reason...We’re supposed to believe in s1 a traumatized girl (with no proper socialization with adults or peers) who doesn’t even know what a friend is - is supposed to know the nuances of romantic, platonic, and familial love (or just the distinctions between physical attraction, crushes ,or romantic love)? Really?!

- in s1 El knew Mike for 4 days, but we’re supposed to believe they ‘fell in love at first sight’? Even when the official ST-twitter ‘st writers’ said they don’t believe in ‘love at first sight’.

- El is mixing up familial love with romantic love. Before he asks her out , El asks in regards to the status of their relationship “will you be like my brother?” And she is confused and upset when Mike says “no”- and proceeds to ask , “Why?” their relationship would be different than siblings. And Mike says “I don’t know, I guess it’s not.”

Then Mike accidentally implies the only difference between friends/siblings/ gfs is that you kiss them. Mike pretty much says it’s different simply for the fact that it would be weird to go to a dance with someone who is like a sister - then kisses her.

And then In s2, Mike tries to emulate his ‘non jealous’ friend, Dustin, who is happy for lumax (despite his own romantic feelings). So Mike tries to act like Dustin, and forces Will to dance with a girl (who’s wearing a rainbow hair clip). And right after this we see Dustin look sad about Max/Lucas dancing and Mike (next to Dustin) look sadly at Will/girl dancing in the same exact frame as Max/Lucas. As they switch between these 2 shots to emphasize their sadness/jealousy.

Then they both sit down (mirroring each other) on the verge of tears before Nancy and El show up to comfort them and distract them. As El once again (presumably) wears Nancy dress.

The parallels continue as Nancy (who has no romantic feelings for Dustin but more of a sibling-esque bond) teaches him how to dance, similar to how Mike teaches El to do the same. Indicating it’s not romantic for either pairings (despite the kiss). Mike :” you don’t go to dances with your sister?/ no?/ i mean you can but it’d be really weird.”

*In s2 they even make a direct parallel to Luke &Leia (who were siblings who had a weird romantic relationship/kiss before realizing they were related). Mike (as Leia) saying “it’s a trap” to El (Luke).

And Leia (Mike) eventually gets with Han (Will) the one she had the real romantic tension with all along, and who she tried to make jealous by using Luke (El). Specifically, by kissing Luke (El) in front of Han (Will). Doing this by kissing El at the dance where Will could see.

They’re also compared to cousins.

And most damming is how Mike/El is compared to mileven. Cause El is confusing familial love for Mike with romantic.

* In s1 Lucas even compares El to Mike’s sister Holly, while the decoration of a heart being propelled by a rainbow hangs above him. Which echos what happened in s2 as well.In s2 , Erica forces He-man and barbie to make out. And Lucas angrily separates the two. And then this discussion happens.

Erica: “Hey , They’re in love!”Lucas (livid- and standing right next to a rainbow): “No, actually, they’re not. They don’t even exist on the same planet.”

Cue El and mike being compared to ET and Eliot (by the Duffers in multiple interviews and in the pilot script, shown above ) . And El watching he-man in s1- while Dustin in s2 has he-man and et next to eachother to show they were in fact Lucas was talking about mileven. Mike even calls El “yoda” in s1. We also see El compared to ET on multiple occasions in s1 (the bike scene, reese’s pieces vs eggos, et/el both having a the barbie like makeover and dressing as a ghost etc). And then there’s the old euphemism of “girls come from Venus, and boys come from Mars”. So El telling mike he should ‘stick with his own species’ (aka boys). And the Duffers saying mileven isn’t in love cause they’re not from the same planet -is just them telling us , Mike is gay and El doesn’t love him either. Will even says to Mike “welcome to my world”. In s3 we see Mike’s gotten rid of the sign that has a heart being propelled by a rainbow (symbolizing how he’s trying to hide/get rid of his feelings for Will) . But in El’s room while mileven makes-out we see a drawing of a heart being propelled by a rainbow (similar to the sign in s1 )- emphasizing the fact that no matter how much he makes out with El, and tries to hide the truth... he’s still gay. Like Max said in her rebuttal to El’s comment of “friends don’t lie”. “Yeah, but boyfriends lie ALL THE TIME”. Cause the relationship on Mike’s end was always a farce.

- And before their first kiss , after asking if she’d be like his sis, she asks if he’s asking her to the snow ball as “a friend?” And he says “it’s different”. But El again asks “how?”. And Mike (similar to El’s sibling question) once again can’t explain the difference of how friends and romantic partners are different to her, before they kiss. And just a few days earlier she asked the gang “what is friend?”. Yet we’re supposed to believe she knows she has a crush on Mike?

El constantly says in reference to Mike “friends don’t lie” (even in s3). Her instincts are telling her she doesn’t have romantic feelings for him ... which is why in a span of 3 minutes she says she thinks of him as both a “brother” and a “friend” when he tries to make it romantic in s1.

This whole ‘romantic confession’ of Mike’s in s1, echos his ‘love confession’ in s3. With Mike making it romantic and El once again not understanding his words or reciprocating her understanding of ‘feeling like she’s in love with him’.

Mike, before his love confession, apologizes for everything BUT LYING (the thing that broke them up in the first place). Aka because the love confession itself, was yet another lie Mike was telling. Which is why he never says “I love you” (to her face) but instead says *blank/it* instead of “love” .Saying “It makes you crazy…blank makes you crazy.

In s1 Flo says “ only love makes you crazy and that damn stupid”. Re-contextualizing the “crazy together” scene between Mike and Will as romantic (since Mike & Flo both equate love to making you ‘crazy’ ) .

When Mike tries to confess his “love” to El , he says “Well , they do say it makes you crazy”… much to El’s confusion as she says “what makes you crazy”? But when Mike asks Will, “We’ll go crazy together, right? Will immediately responds back “yeah, crazy together.”As they smile at each other.

Then there’s the fact that in s2 El’s new catchphrase was “not stupid”.She even says this line right before going to visit Mike. Right before Mike says he loves El, Nancy even comments that “El’s not stupid”. And in s3 El says “there’s more to life than STUPID boys.”And in s3 during the byler fight, Mike says “El’s not stupid.” As opposed to Will who right after this, runs to castle byers, looks at the Halloween pic where they both said they’d go ‘crazy together’, and cries and calls himself “stupid” (4x).

(x)(x)

The show says El is neither stupid nor crazy for Mike, meaning she DOES NOT (romantically) LOVE MIKE! The only one who is “crazy” and “stupid” for Mike is Will. Therefore, Will is the only one in love with Mike! . She even ignored his confession for 3 months and lied about hearing it- that doesn’t scream ‘in love’ .

- El mimicks Erica Kane and pretends to be with a fictional Mike Roy, while watching ‘all my children’ (Mike and Erica aren’t endgame btw) . Which parallels mileven to Karen/ Billy. Before she meets him she’s reading a romance book that has a guy that resembles Billy on the cover. The Duffers even mentioned they changed the cover to show the resemblance between Billy and the fictional book character. And we see Karen reading the sequel in s3 before Billy appears. Both El and Karen don’t/didn’t love Mike or Billy- they just projected onto them fictional characters they were infatuated with. She knew Mike for 4 days- saw a rushed romance on tv with a character named Mike- and simply wanted to emulate it with the only Mike she knew.

-She latched on to Mike more than the others since he was the first boy her age who took care of her. If Dustin did everything Mike did, she would of assumed she was in love with him too! El through her limited knowledge (given to her by Mike) essentially assumes boyfriends (who you are in love with) are boys who you think of as “friends, cousins, or brothers” who you kiss. Since Mike accidentally implied that feelings for brothers/ friends are the same as romantic crushes (in s1 saying about the difference “I don’t know I guess there isn’t”, and she is later taught while in isolation that kissing=romantic love (by soap operas). And then projects Mike roy (who she’s actually crushing on) onto our Mike wheeler. And then she proceeds to mimic what she sees on screen. Similar to how she copies Max’s words in s3. El says “I love you too”, cause (similar to mimicking Max and soap operas) she assumes mimicking him is what she’s supposed to do! Not cause she's actually in love with him!

(X)

Not to mention the episode of the soap opera episode she’s mimicking is about a women and a man (named Michael) who rush into a relationship despite barely knowing each other, because of traumatic circumstances . And who are not endgame! She’s mimicking the female character who (has romantic feelings for a guy named Mike). Just like Mike projects Will on to El. El does the same projecting qualities of soap-opera Mike Roy onto our Mike Wheeler.

- For El’s entire life she has known only 4 boys and 1 girl her age (her dating options are pathetically puny). She knew 4 boys for less then then a week, then immediately jumped into dating the first one who kissed her (and the only one who visited her for her 6 months in isolation at the cabin...interacting with her only romantic option, Mike).She’s never had a normal social-life like most kids who interact with a large number of boys and girls. So she could never see if what she had for Mike was romantic (or more than a simple crush) cause she has nothing to compare it to.

In s3

- Dustin compares stancy to Mileven stating it’s “bullshit”. And in s1 mileven is compared to Karen/Ted, as El sits and enjoys Ted’s laz-eboy chair. Similar to how Steve and Ted both eat chicken as their female partners storm away upset, and both men do nothing to help. Nancy states the only reason Karen and Ted got married was because they were young and that getting together was the more ‘socially acceptable/logical choice’ and saying “I don’t think my parents ever loved each other.” John says Nancy was repeating her mom’s mistakes by getting with the jock (Steve) , similar to how her mom got with a wealthy man (Ted). And now Mike is repeating Nancy and Karen’s mistakes getting with a girl cause it’s the logical choice (instead of being with the boy he loves).It’s mutual though (just like the Wheeler parents, mileven never loved each other).

- In s3 El even says “How do I know what I like?” In reference to clothes and Max says she has to figure that out on her own without letting Mike or Hopper influence her. Associating mileven with El’s lack of understanding of knowing what she likes. This poor girl doesn’t even know how to interpret what objects she likes but we’re supposed to believe , before this she knew with certainty she liked Mike romantically?!

Later Max even asks her “Is Mike a good kisser?” And she similarly answers “I don’t know, he’s my first boyfriend”. While staring at a pic of the karate-kid ( right after she dumped Mike). Implying subconsciously she’s thinking of other boys , who are not Mike in the future. Which is actually very similar to the soap opera character who went on to have many marriages after being “in love with” Michael. Plus, despite making out with him everyday for 6 months straight- she doesn’t feel strongly , and is neutral/confused about how kissing him makes her feel (similar to clothes).

This is also in direct opposition to Will, who said he expected him and Mike to never get girlfriends and spend the rest of their lives together, and who later cries while looking at a picture of Mike. Unlike El who is happy and swooning over a pic of a random male celeb. They even have El (after breaking up with Mike) happily read comics books with Max, while Will (right before his breaks down) throws his comic on the floor, frustrated he can’t get his mind off of his fight with Mike.

- Also if she’s ‘so in love with him’ as people claim, her laughing right after breaking up with him and having a party with Max makes little to no sense. And if you say she simply ‘doesn’t understand how breakups work’... you’re just proving my point that she’s too naive and not emotionally-mature enough to be in a romantic-relationship in the first place. The breakup between Mileven was comedic, while Byler’s fight was serious, cause byler’s fight is more important to the writers .Mike’s drastically different expressions after the fight. The dramatic framing in the rain vs the casual comedic after-math at the mall. One fight being in front of a crowd, while byler’s fight was something private and just between them. El smiling vs Will’s heartbreak. It just highlights once again Will loves Mike, and El doesn’t!

- After Mike says to El (in the pool shed) she’s “the most important thing in the world “, to him. She ignores his proclamation, and agrees with Hopper that they’re spending too much time together, and tells him they both need to spend time with their own species. Which is contrasted with Mike’s confession in the Byers-shed (in s2) where Mike says, asking Will to be his friend was the ‘best thing he’s ever done’ . And those words were what helped break Will from his possession.

The framing of this mileven scene was not cinematic or heartfelt, and neither was the delivery from Mike.We as the audience are supposed to take his words as seriously as El- aka , not at all. Because the scene and his words were meant to feel empty. He’s not crying, trying to reach her with proclamations of his genuine feelings. There’s no narrative importance to this scene (unlike byler’s). And there’s no dramatic music, framing, lighting or shot composition (and the pool-scene was also incredibly short).

Then, juxtapose this to the MUCH longer byler scene. A literal single tear falls down Mike’s cheek, as he recounts the first day they met. This whole monologue is only of tight shots of just their faces (their bodies aren’t shown like in the pool shed scene). This is a personal moment between them and them alone- and the fact we zoom in on their faces (expresses this to be important emotionally) . And when we see Will’s reaction to Mike saying “it was the best thing I’ve ever done”. We just see Will’s face only- no music is playing and all we hear is Will’s whimpers and Mike crying in the background. They even have an added layer to this because earlier in the season Will assumes John only hangs out with him because he has no friends. But then Mike (despite all the hardships with the demogorgan and Mindflayer) still tells Will that asking him to be his friend was still the best thing he’s ever done. And those words are what helps Will begin to break from his possession .

-When Max makes fun of how Mike talks to much, El agrees and laughs. And similarly when Max says Mike is wrong and it isn’t just “a break” El once again chuckles. This is not the behavior of someone who’s deeply in love with a person.

Canonically El isn’t even into Mike’s real personality traits or his interests. Not only making fun of how he talks too much, but walking away and ignoring him when he excitedly talked about dinosaurs or makes jokes with the cpr dummy. She’s not into ‘nerds’. She only swooned for him in s3 when he was acting like a ‘bad-boy’ who was disrespectful to Hopper and his friends. Probably, because that’s what the tv has conditioned her to like.

-Robin who had feelings for a girl also points out that Steve “didn’t even like her” despite all the attention Tammy gave him (similar to Mike with El). Tammy is a someone who sucks at singing but does it all the time (COUGH insert mike’s singing in s3 as El cuts him off as a parallel XD) . And Robin annoyed also call’s Steve’s hair “stupid” like how Will called El “stupid”. Implying similar to Steve who didn’t like Tammy (who his gay friend was crushing on) ... EL doesn’t like Mike (Who Will is in love with).

- She also never apologizes for spying on Mike-despite it clearly upsetting him. But to be fair Mike NEVER apologized for lying either (the cause of their breakup). It’s just so obvious they’re not compatible on any level. They can’t even agree to respect each others’ core principles; C’mon guys!

-Her whole arc in s2 was about leaving the cabin and learning more about herself and gaining independence from men controlling her autonomy (aka hopper and brenner). She went from wanting to see her friends and leave the cabin that she was forced to remain in because of Hopper. To in s3 , ignoring her friends and choosing to seclude herself in the cabin even when (unlike s2 ) she was allowed out of the house! All because she was dating mike.She directly went against her own mantra of “friends don’t lie” from s2 , lying to her friends to return to the cabin and kiss mike- limiting her much needed social interaction which she obtained by escaping the cabin in s2. Dating Mike caused her character to regress as a character NOT PROGRESS.

But also... El had no issues lying to her friends to ditch them and kiss mike (compromising her mantra of “friends don’t lie”. Just like Mike who lied to El despite him teaching her the saying in the first place- and how when together he stops being the group leader. They literally bring out the worst in each other! Lucas even says “ they’re lying”. Before Dustin says their relationship is “bullshit”. But then when Mike lied to her, that’s when she dumps him? And of course El pretends she didn’t hear the “I love her” (a form of lying). This is a stereotypical-childish-middle school-romance that falls apart easily based on petty reasons, cause it lacks a strong foundation. XD

-Then we’re supposed to believe she loves Mike-despite ignoring his love confession for 3 months?! Only saying she “loves” him (and‘making-up’ with him) right before she is about to move, and despite knowing about it for so long? To be fair she had other things to deal with (moving in with the Byers and losing Hopper). But it’s also suspicious it happens right after Mike helps her grab the teddy bear she can’t reach. This is because she used 2 different stuffed bears (Hopper and Terry’s in s2) as a comfort objects (and in s3 Will’s). In s2, she’d snuggle with them when she felt abandoned or at her lowest emotionally. And even the (romantic) ‘golden-teddy bear gift’ Mike was going to give her , was an empty gesture- that would of meant less than simply apologizing. She even wears Hopper’s shirt at the end of s3 which in s2 she snuggled with when homesick. Her using teddy bears like s2, wearing Hopper’s shirt from s2 (and undoing the s3 makeover where Max said to dress what felt like her and NOT Mike & Hopper), and kissing Mike again, symbolizes all her character development was undone from s3- it’s symbolic of her CHARACTER REGRESSION. Just like how in s3 she stayed in the cabin and lied to her friends (when she started to date Mike)- undoing her character arc from s2 which was in direct opposition to her s2 character arc. Mileven’s kissing at the end of s3 shows it’s a bad for El’s growth and inhibits it- that’s what season 3 was saying!

El feels vulnerable because she’s moving away and still hasn’t gotten her powers back. But then Mike comes in and gives her, her comfort object (which she couldn’t retrieve by herself, when she tried to use her telekenesis. That’s when El (conveniently) decides to proclaim she’s in love with him too. While in Will’s room, holding Will’s old teddy bear, as the teddybear comes between Mike and El (as they kiss). It’s obvious (unlike Will) she doesn’t love him , but has just formed a co-dependency to him- and is looking for stability given all the new changes in her life. Like Hopper’s letter said “I don’t want things to change.” She preferred life when Hopper was still around and she had this fake fantasy that Mike was a good boyfriend- before s3.

-And again the very last shot we see of El and Will shows once again El doesn’t love Mike, the way Will does. (Image by @tsugarubecker)

She’s not as distraught or crying like Will is. She’s smiling with light over 1/2 her face because even if El struggles in a new environment she’ll be fine without her friends/Mike who she knew for 9 months. Honestly, other than Mike, she only knew the others for 3 months (since El never went out and only hung out with Mike). She’s hopeful . Will won’t be - because he actually loves Mike and won’t be able to have a new party , and will be a mess without his support system of friends, that he’s had for years! (Why jonathan looks at him concerned- when he’s just crying. With absolutely no hope in his face- covered in shadow , the opposite of El).

So again I say- EL IS NOT IN LOVE WITH MIKE! And, she will not be ‘heartbroken’ or devastated when they breakup. Frankly, her being away from Mike and gaining independence from Hawkins, and meeting new people is the best thing the writers could do for her character growth.

#byler #byeler #anti mileven #anti-mileven

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kaypeace21 · 5 years ago

Note

i LOVE your analysis especially byler ones so please don't take this as hate, it's the last thing i want to do. but while i love the byler theories do you actually think the duffers are smart enough to realize the potential/brave enough to follow through on the relationship. bc tbh i think our viewpoint is skewed i don't think anyone but byler shippers see the canon possibility. and also it really seems like m/leven is going to be endgame? just wanted to know more of your thought process

Even if byler never happens- I’m 100% sure mileven won’t be endgame XD. Regardless of byler, Mike and El are just not going to happen. (Even if they’re ‘dating’ in s4). I could try to explain the reasons why I think byler will be endgame though. I’ll give the cliffnotes version. This will probably be a mess- because focusing on all the reasons isn’t as good as analyzing , each reason as it’s own separate post, in depth).

Why mileven isn’t endgame

- The duffers said, while filming ST, El was supposed to die in s1 (glad that didn’t happen). And this was also their plan when pitching their show ‘Montauk’ (later retitled ST), saying that the hypothetical s2 sequel would be about the boys returning to their town 10 years later. Mileven was never ‘planned end-game’. They also describe mileven kissing but never mention the word ‘love’ like how Jancy was described in the Montauk pitch. Nancy’s bio says “ she will experience love for the first time.” But when they describe mileven, they say, “If Mike is the Elliot of our show, Eleven is our “E.T.” Like that’s … not romantic, Duffers. And if it was supposed to be … WTF did you guys watch the same film? 0-O

- In the byler centric s2, the Duffers kept mileven separated. And the mileven kiss wasn’t written in the show. Millie pretty much said “they had to do it.” Much to Matt’s confusion but then the Duffers agreed. And used ‘every breath you take’ (a song about divorce), and just by coincidence their 2nd back-up song was also a song about a divorce? Nah, they were trolling.

- Most of the women (Nancy & Max) in the show critique Mileven saying Mike treats her as if she’s stupid, can’t take care of herself, or as she is a possession.

-in the first ep of s3 almost all the guys (who had/have gfs) Hopper, Lucas, and Dustin all criticize the mileven relationship and think it’s unhealthy.

Hopper says “ They’re spending entirely too much time together… It is constant.It is constant! Okay? That is not normal, that is not healthy! ”

Lucas mocks Mike, saying “ Oh El, I wish we could make out forever and never hang out with any of our friends.”

Dustin says when they flake on him, “It’s bullshit, I just got home!” (insert Nancy calling Stancy ‘bullshit’)

and before this Dustin talks about Romeo & Juliet (while mileven is out of frame). R&J is all about the dangers of not knowing the difference between love and infatuation. Juliet after Romeo is banished just complains about how in love/sad she is but never pursues looking for him (sound familiar)? R&J claimed that they were in love with each other after knowing each for a few days and deciding to get married-sabotaging the closest relationships they had with their friends/family (all in the name of ‘true love’) . Similarly Mileven thought they were in love after only a week of knowing each other, and the second they are reunited they start dating and spend all their time with each other. El is allowed out of the house (and her friends are allowed to visit), but El hasn’t interacted with Max nor Will? They spend almost everyday in her room just making out. Mike puts very little effort into integrating her into his life or as part of the group. The only time they go out- is for Mike to show off El to Dustin like a possession- then before El can even do the boding activity with the group (with the radio tower)- Mike convinces her to leave to make out. They are both complicit in this and they both bring out the worst in each other and they make each other blinded to their loved ones’ feelings.

- El literally asks Max “How do I know what I like?” Do I have to explain why this could be problematic? She even says “I don’t know”, when Max asks if Mike is a good kisser.You can call me ‘ableist’ my abused-autistic ass will disagree. But El is not ready for a romantic relationship! it makes perfect sense for El to be confused by the distinctions of romantic, platonic, and familial love- when the first 12 years of her life she didn’t receive any form of love , PERIOD! And she is not like normal abuse victims (she has never had proper socialization with peers her own age or even adults).All she had was television. She latches herself on to anyone who is kind to her (something I used to do). Without Mike she used Max as a replacement almost immediately, and even starts repeating/mirroring the things she says (specifically coping phrases from her …over 6 times!). She’s also susceptible to doing what others say or want her to do, “dumping his ass” (with Max’s validation and encouragement). El might love Mike but I don’t think it’s romantic, she latched on to the first person that was kind to her. Before their first kiss she asked Mike “Will you be like my brother?” And she’s hurt when he says “no”, asking “Why not?”. He then kisses her (she watches a lot of soap operas and she assumes it must be ‘romantic love’). You’re telling me that if she was ‘in love’ with Mike she would have been that happy over dumping him? I’m not saying El is dumb for not being able to discern these things (I think people without such backgrounds may still struggle with this concept). But it makes perfect sense for El to be confused by the distinctions of various loves or even the differences between ‘crushes’ , ‘physical attraction’ and ‘romantic love’

- In the last ep El asks about what he said at the cabin to Max, specifying “you talked about your feelings?”. He says and I QUOTE “Oh! Oh, yeah that.Man, that was so long ago. Um…” and starts to scratch his head. Then he excuses what he said at the cabin, saying it was “in the heat of the moment stuff and we were arguing… I don’t actually remember. What did I say exactly?”

Now either he legitimately forgot! Or he lied! You know the thing that broke them up in the first place! The one thing that El holds as her most important value in life- honesty. And he lied- about something as important as his romantic feelings?! Make up any excuse (about being shy/character flaws all you want), but this isn’t real life- it’s fiction (everything is done for a narrative purpose). That wasn’t an accident ( mileven wasn’t “written out of character”- like milevens claim, the duffers were criticizing the ship on purpose) .And the fact he lied again! Wouldn’t bode well for a long term relation with each other. The whole season, criticized their romantic relationship ! That wasn’t a coincidence neither was the fact he looked confused by her confession, and kept his eyes open the whole time and didn’t kiss her back .

And as she smiled and walked away, he looked confused. That wasn’t a directing mistake, like so many milevens are claiming! You really think they wouldn’t make sure their ‘fav ship’ didn’t have a good final kiss?

Especially since it was right after a romantic Jancy scene (which was directed amazingly)- where Nancy even mentions Mileven- to make us compare the 2 pairings romantic scenes even more.

* I know I sound like an assh*le but I’m just annoyed. I’ve always censored my byler posts trying not to offend/criticize mileven. I never cross tagged my byler meta with the hashtag mileven (never will, cause it’s rude). But (without sounding pompous) my byler posts generally gets reblogged a lot- and now the milevens have seen my posts (and are sending lots of hate my way) and worst of all they’ve invaded the byler tag. Today I saw 2 posts in the byler tag saying. “We’re delusional” and “stupid”- and also in the same posts they say they “feel attacked” by us.Um… there’s a difference between byler shippers privately criticizing a ship without bothering mileven shippers (and only tagging it byler) . Versus Mileven shippers tagging things byler (and ranting about the ship and it’s shippers). Loved the comment about how Mike can’t be bi cause “he loves El too much”.I think Mike is probably gay and in denial. But, um that’s not how being bi works- didn’t know bi people love women and men ½ as much as the gays/straights. Thanks for informing me (rolls eyes for eternity).So kid-gloves off, nothing left to lose! Time to compare the ships.

‘The breakup’ vs ‘fight’ parallel

comedic vs dramatic! The casual sunny day vs the dramatic framing of the storm (a romantic trope) . The ‘break-up’ being a scene with multiple onlookers vs the fight being with Will and Mike only (making it more personal/intimate). ‘Cold as ice’ playing after the mileven breakup vs the sad instrumentals playing during the byler fight. The comedic after-math at the mall. El and Max laughing, and another joke being made as the bus leaves.El’s happiness vs Will’s heartbreak.

Mike’s drastically different expressions after their fights. He looks regretful with Will, and almost annoyed with El dumping him. The fact Mike apologized right away more than once to Will, and ran into a storm to apologize a 2nd time. But with El he just lies to cover up the first lie, and then after the break-up he just complains/lounges on the couch (not taking any responsibility). He literally says about El “Why is she treating me this way? What did I do to deserve this? What did I do wrong?”.( He lied and made her feel “like garbage”!) Then he burps and laughs about chips- and makes sexist comments. Neither EL nor Mike are heartbroken by the breakup.

But when he angers Will (by him trying to finish the game early), he immediately tries to de-escalate saying softly “I was just joking- c’mon, let’s finish the game”. But when Will just yells back (much to Mike’s confusion) he doesn’t dismiss his feelings as irrational (like he wrongfully did to El) but chases him to the garage- and begs him to stay since it’s raining.

In the garage, Mike immediately apologizes saying “I said I was sorry, alright. It was a cool campaign.” But after this, they fight and Mike runs into a storm to apologize a second time , and says to Will’s door “ WILL! I’m sorry I was being an asshole. Can you just come outside and we’ll talk? WILL!” He immediately takes responsibility and apologizes. And he’s desperate to resolve things. And when they find him outside castle Byers he just asks (Mike’s catchphrase) “Will, Are you ok?”

Shed scene ( “best thing I’ve ever done” vs “the most important thing in the world to me”) parallel

When Mike says to El “you’re most important thing to me” in the pool shed. El doesn’t even acknowledge the comment (and neither should the audience- cause the words were empty). She completely ignores his words, and responds by asking him about his previous comments. Asking whether Hopper was right about them spending too much time together.

I didn’t edit (or delete any scene after his proclamation) this is how fast it was delivered ! The framing of this mileven scene was not cinematic or heartfelt, and neither was the delivery from Mike. He’s not crying, trying to reach her with proclamations of his genuine feelings. There’s no dramatic music, framing, lighting or shot composition. And El just responds and cuts his supposed ‘true feelings’ off- only to agree with Hopper and says “ she should spend time with her own species.” And if this ‘romantic moment’ wasn’t already undermined enough. This is when Mike realizes she was spying on him , and feels wrongfully violated (something she doesn’t apologize for, saying “I make my own rules” . He even brings this up in a later episode (this clearly bothered him)!

Juxtaposed to the MUCH longer byler scene. A literal single tear falling down his cheek as Mike , recounts the first day they met. Mike being in the back drop of darkness only his face being illuminated (having him appear like a guiding light to Will). Saying “ I felt so alone and so scared… but you were alone too” (alone together/crazy together) . He then talks about asking Will to be his friend, and then he pauses and breaks eye contact , before looking him in the eye and smiling (lost in the memory) saying softly “you said yes, you said yes.” (cough like saying yes at a wedding).

So, after he says “you said yes, you said yes.” It’s important to mention that he takes a deep breath and breaks eye contact again, (looking down and to the side) as he says this line. Subconsciously, I believe he knows this line is romantic and he’s too afraid to say it to his face. Only flicking his eyes up to look at Will after he finishes the entire sentence, and to gauge Will’s reaction.

This whole monologue is only of tight shots of just their faces (their bodies aren’t shown like in the pool shed scene). This is a personal moment between them and them alone- and the fact we zoom in on their faces (expresses this to be important emotionally) . And when we see Will’s reaction to Mike saying “it was the best thing I’ve ever done”. We just see Will’s face only- no music is playing and all we hear is Will’s whimpers and Mike crying in the background.

“ Blank makes you Crazy” vs “ Crazy Together parallel

When Mike tries to confess his “love” to El he says “Well they do say it makes you crazy”… much to El’s confusion.He has to try to explain it a second time to El- who just gets even more confused, by his ‘confession’. Saying “you never heard that expression? Like blank makes you crazy … like the word (love)?”

But when Mike says he “feels like he’s going crazy” Will immediately responds with “Me too”. Mike even smiles at the comment. So that moment in s2 means more than we think, when Mike (with tears in his eyes) smiles at Will’s comment and asks them to go “crazy together”.And when Will responds back “yeah, crazy together” (who also has tears in his eyes). They even linger on the moment as they just smile and stare at each other.

Mike is in denial, and may not even realize he loves Will, but he knows subconsciously that he does. He heard the phrase “love makes you crazy and that damn stupid”, 100′s of times and that’s why he said that phrase to Will. And why it made him so happy when Will reciprocated , by saying “ yeah. crazy together.” In addition to why we see them both go from happy, to immediately upset over the conversation.The scene was already romantically coded in s2 (but the scene in s3 re-contextualizes the whole thing) . Mike thinks “love makes you crazy” , and he asked Will to go ‘crazy together’ with him. And When Will is at castle byers looking at the Halloween pic of the 2 the day Mike said that, Will cries and calls himself “stupid” (4x). Can’t get more obvious… Like look what the duffers did!

El and Will’s opinions on Mike (Parallels)

-When asked if Mike was a good kisser, she just said “I don’t know he’s my 1st boyfriend.” (implying she’s thinking, at least subconsciously, of having other boyfriends ,who are not Mike in the future). But when Mike pretty much asks’ if Will thought they’d never get girlfriends, and spend the rest of their lives with each other’.Will just sadly responds “yeah, I guess I did. I really did!” Unlike, El, Will always saw Mike as his future, his forever.

-And when Mike says “it’s just a break” , Max says “No it’s not!”, and we see El laugh along with Max’s comment. She is not heartbroken at the idea of never getting back together with him, romantically. Right after they break up she was laughing, reading comics, and playing games with Max.

But Will is devastated over the fight! And out of all the memories in Castle Byers it’s the Ghostbusters photo from Halloween that causes Will to pick up the bat and start destroying everything. That was the night that Mike agreed to go “crazy together” with him. He tears it in ½ right in the center where Mike and Will are. He was so stupid to think it meant anything. The “crazy together” scene, that Mike initiated in s2 was always meant to be romantic. Not only because of Will’s reaction to the photo in s3, but because Mike in s3 says “They do say it makes you crazy…blank makes you crazy.” Which is exactly what happens to Will, as he has his breakdown.Castle byers was built on a rainy night , the same day Will’s dad left, when Will was 5 (the same age he met Mike). And lonnie called him a “queer” and a “f*g” and forced him to do “normal things” like baseball to have him “be more of a man”. And then on a rainy night, after Mike says “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls”… what does Will destroy castle byers with? A baseball bat! The fact Will has a baseball bat (despite in s1 saying he does not like baseball) in Castle Byers, surrounded by things he loves: drawings, d&d, art supplies, a microscope, comics- just shows what an impact Lonnie’s problematic conditioning and abandonment had on him. He used a baseball bat to destroy something he loves -castle Byers, and symbolically he was trying to reject his feelings for Mike using Lonnie’s old tactics of fixing him.

- Also, El doesn’t even seem to appreciate when Mike acts like his true self (goofy/like a kid). She laughs when Max complains he talks too much. Rolls his at his jokes with the cpr-dummy, covers his mouth and tells him to stop when he tries to joke and sing, ignores him when he gets excited about talking about dinosaurs. Which relates to my next point

The only characters who’s character bios focus on ‘escaping’ through d&d is Mike and Will.

Will in the Montauk pitch was described as having “sexual identity issues… LIKE MIKE , Will ESCAPES through fantasy gaming where he can be himself, uninhibited.” Like what is Mike escaping from… being a nerd? Because they could of said ‘like his friends’. And no it’s not because they’re best friends- they even specifIed in Lucas bio he’s “ Mike’s best friend” (which was even mentioned in s1).

.In Mike’s character description it says “ bullying and near-crippling insecurity. He has never had a first kiss, much less a girlfriend.He ESCAPES his insecurities through reading fantasy novels … retreating into his own vivid imagination. The Dungeon Master of his Dungeons and Dragons group, he writes sprawling adventures with fantastical monsters.When he finds himself on a real adventure, facing real monsters, he will discover a courage he didn’t know he had. By the end, he will even kiss a girl.”

*Interesting that Mike uses D&D to escape his insecurities about not having a gf (retreating into his imagination). While Will (who is somewhat aware of his sexuality) uses d&d to escape and be himself uninhibited. They’re foils in a sense- using d&d for opposing reasons.

So the s3 fight about d&d games has a lot more meaning

Mike equates heterosexual romance with ‘growing up’ and his feeling for Will as something childish he has to grow out of.When they fight over d&d. Mike says “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls!”, then he tries to ½ apologize only to say, “I’m not trying to be a jerk. Ok? But We’re not kids anymore.” He pretty much explains, this is just the way things are-boys fall in love with girls, get girlfriends, and that’s just a part of growing up (heteronormativity). And tells Will “I mean, what did you think, really? That we were never gonna get girlfriends? We were just gonna sit in my basement all day and play games for the rest of our lives?” And poor Will who is probably more aware of his feelings just responds. “Yeah. I guess I did. I really did.” And after this Mike rushes to Will’s house and apologizes saying he was an “asshole.”When he tries to say he loves El . It was very forced. He can’t even use the world love or explain his feelings, “A feeling … yeah, like, something… like OLD PEOPLE say it sometimes”.

He can’t even describe love and what his “feelings” entail for El , he then says “Yeah, like something , like old people say it some times. He doesn’t even say it back in the last ep, when she confesses. It’s all talk, but no feeling, it’s just a part of becoming an adult in Mike’s mind.

In the last ep before the mileven kiss, he even invites both El and Will over for Christmas saying “ And Will too… we could all have new presents to play with and… *scoffs* Sorry, that made me sound like a 7 year old... ”

And it’s implied in the last ep (before the mileven kiss), because of the 3 month breakup Mike is back to liking d &d. When Mike sees Will put his own d&d book in the donation box he stops him.

Mike: “WHOA, dude that’s the donation box.”

Will: “ I know, I’ll just use yours, when I come back. (pause) if WE still want to play?”

So then Mike asks, shyly …

Mike : “Yeah, but what if you want to join another party?” (cough- girls , the other ‘species’, or just someone else: girl, guy or otherwise)

Will: “Not possible.” (Will will always love Mike- insert Mikes immediate heart-eye reaction to this comment).

I think people don’t notice what the subtext is here- regardless of his intentions, Mike broke Will’s heart. He made him feel “stupid” for ever thinking he ever had a chance with Mike. He always saw Mike as his forever, but Mike shot any hopes of that down in the garage. Will doesn’t trust his own instincts. Mike could straight up flirt with him in s4/5- and Will would dismiss it as his imagination. He essentially said ‘he’ll always love Mike- but if something is going to happen. It’s up to Mike to initiate it’.

Mike was queer coded since ep 1 (and he’s more queer coded than Will)!

I LITERALLY thought (in s1) Mike was queer before Will!

- 3 rainbow references. Mike in s1 in his basement has a red heart being propelled by a rainbow sign. We see this again in s3 as a drawing. Mike also stands next to Will behind a rainbow apple poster in s2. Forbidden fruit + rainbow = queer forbidden romance. Also the apple poster was in the AV Club and at that time the rainbow apple-mac sign was suspected to be in reference to for Alan Turning (the gay ‘father of computers’).

In s1:

- 4 separate characters said El looked like a boy, but Mike doesn’t care! Even one of the men thought El might be the missing ‘Byers boy’. When El loses her wig , Troy said “she doesn’t even look like a girl” to the cops. But Mike just calls her “really pretty”

-Nancy says “I thought you were acting weird, but I thought it was because of Will” And Mike responds “I thought you were acting weird too I thought it was because of Steve … Do you like Jonathan now”?” Nancy: “No, do you like Eleven?”. They literally compared the explicit love triangle between Steve/Nancy/Jonathan to the Will-Mike-El dynamic!

- Mike literally uses gender inclusive pronouns when talking about crushes using the word “someone” (3 times), and embarrassing himself because he can’t articulate the difference between friendship and romance. When he could of simply given the 80s heteronormative answer of ‘when a boy likes a girl’.

Mike: “ you go to school dances with someone.

You know someone that you like”

El: “a friend?”

Mike: ‘not a friend uh … uh someone like a” (gives up and kisses her)

-Mike’s mom said “ What’s been going on with Will, I can’t imagine what it’s been like for you. I just … want you to feel like you can talk to me. I never want you to feel like you have to HIDE anything from me” (she even emphasizes the word ‘hide” (which is heavily queer coded)

- when Will ‘dies’, “we can be heroes” by David bowie (a bisexual singer) plays, “And we kiss as though nothing could fall and the shame” is the lyric that plays when Mike returns to his house and cries in his mother’s arms over the ‘death’ of Will. Do I have to explain how ‘kissing and shame’ are queer-coded . And how such a lyric is oddly romantic- if we’re supposed to see their bond as nothing but platonic XD

-his dad jokes “Absolutely not” *turns to wife* “our son with a girl?”.

- when Lucas makes fun of his crush on EL, Lucas gets down on one knee and says “ I love you so much, will you marry me?” and literally 1s later, we’re introduced to the bullies and the idea (for the first time) that Will is ‘gay’, and Mike is in the forefront of the scene and unlike his friends he is THE ONLY ONE physically assaulted as they cause him to fall face first into a rock (like a gay-bashing) . They leave Lucas and Dustin unharmed. Even though Lucas just proposed to another guy- which should have gotten him a beating by the homophobic bullies.

It’s supposed to subconsciously hint Mike is queer like Will, and likes Will. The first interaction with the bullies, they mention Will being ‘gay’ right after they mention Mike’s crush on androgynous El and have a guy propose to Mike. Mike says to “ignore them” ( the homophobic remarks) but is assaulted anyways. And when asked what happed he doesn’t want to tell El the details cause he’s ashamed .

2nd time the bullies talk about Will, Mike is once again in the forefront, unlike his straight friends who are in the background . But this time Mike initiates the confrontation), as the bullies say Will is “flying in fairyland with all the other little fairies. All happy and gay”. Mike was literally on the verge or tears at this comment (despite being happy a few moments earlier , telling the others to ‘act sad’ because they’d look suspicious other wise). But this is the comment where Mike snaps and pushes Troy back (because he took it personally/wanted to defend Will).

The framing of Mike once again being in the front and snapping at the homophobic remarks ( gifs don’t do it justice, just rewatch the scene -Mike eyes water at the remarks). Then the last time the bullies appear , Mike jumps off the cliff and “flies like a fairy” (like Troy said) thanks to El . Troy at the police station even uses the word “fly” not levitate.

-Mike sneaking out to find Will, as Steve sneaks in to Nancy’s. They both even make eye contact (and pretend not to have seen each other).

- they share dinosaur toys , in s1 and 2 they appear to be the only ones with dinosaur toys.

- The s1 mom hug scene where Mike feels he lost Will is paralleled in s3 - signifying how he lost him a 2nd time.

- Mike in the 1st ep being the one to insist on looking for Will in the rain (callback to s3). But he never went looking for El when he saw her through his window? Even when Mike saw Will’s dead body, the second he heard his voice he convinced his friends to help rescue him!

- You remember the binder (from s1) that Mike keeps, filled with 100s of Will’s drawings, and how he caresses the drawing after thinking Will was dead. That’s totes platonic.

- Mike in s1 proclaiming “I’m the only one who cares about Will!” Seems like something a kid with a crush might say ( because obviously his other friends care about Will). But he thinks he cares the most. He was even the first to worry about Will not showing up to school, the first to suggest looking for him while speaking to Hopper, and when Hopper and his parents say ‘no’ he sneaks out anyway (and is the first to suggest forming a search party). The first to believe he was alive after seeing his dead body.The only boy to have a scene dedicated solely to him mourning Will. Mike being the only boy to stay awake at the hospital, and the first boy to see and hug Will. The only one to have a private one on one talk before Will goes missing. The only one who was literally given 100s of Will’s drawings. And yet Dustin says Lucas’ is Mike’s best friend? So what does that make Mike and Will?

In s2:

- Will in all 3 seasons identifies as a wizard. But in s2 Mike (the paladin) says Will is a cleric. Meaning this reflects how Mike actually feels about Will. In d&d, they have similar moral values, powers, and generally need and depend on each other in the lore of d&d. Paladins have similar healing powers to clerics, but clerics have stronger healing abilities - which is interesting since Mike has always been viewed as the protector. But to Mike Will has helped him (maybe deal with the loss of El and other trauma) , just by being there. And if Mike says Will is a cleric,despite Will still identifying as a wizard in s3, it shows how deeply Mike actually feels about Will. It shows he views Will as one of the only people who understands him and views him as a healing presence and his moral compass.

“ strength of conviction gave many paladins a sense of common fellowship but did not always endear them to others. In many cases, paladins did not get along quite as well with other non-paladin adventurers, with the exception of clerics with similar beliefs.”

“A Paladin tries to hold to the highest standards of conduct, but even the most virtuous Paladin is fallible. Sometimes the heat of emotion causes a Paladin to transgress his or her oath (of honesty, courage, compassion, honor ,and duty). A paladin who has broken a vow typically seeks absolution from a cleric who shares his or her faith or from another paladin of the same order. After a rite of confession and forgiveness, the paladin starts fresh.”

This proves Mike knows he treats Will special/different than his other friends- and unlike a relationship with El (they are still individuals who are not dependent on each other). And Mike thinks being with Will quite literally makes him a better person. Juxtaposed with how him being in a romantic relationship with El made him blind and apathetic to those closest to him .

- All the mileven s1 parallels vs byler s2 parallels were ALL initiated by Mike. If the parallels were meant to show a one sided love triangle (on Mike’s end). They would of made Will the instigator not Mike! Parallels can be watched here , start at 6:50)

-Mike initiated the “crazy together’ line- and in s3 he said ‘blank makes you crazy’. So subconsciously he knew the line had romantic connotations.

-Mike initiating the hand hold (with a zoom in shot) and in the show this is only done for romantic pairings. Also Mike being the one to initiate the ‘arm thing’ which is generally romantic. But in s3 , Lucas also does this, saying “I am spending quality time with my girlfriend’

-Mike saying, asking him to be his friend was the “best thing I’ve ever done”

-Mike constantly following Will around, asking if he’s okay or biking to his house to check on him in s2 . In s3 running out to chase Will to the garage and apologizing, and running into a storm to apologize a 2nd time.

YOU SEE A PATTERN! Mike is whipped! And is the one constantly chasing and pursuing Will, not the other way around! Before s3, people always portrayed Will as the (stereotypical- problematic trope of a) sad-pinning-gay in a one sided love with Mike. It’s like people didn’t even watch the show (and just assigned tropes/stereotypes they wanted, that weren’t actually there). Will (probably too shy or scared to- because of homophobic taunts) never initiated a single byler moment- it was ALWAYS Mike!!! If people were actually objective, they would of thought it was Mike who was the one pinning!

- Which brings me to Mike literally pinning! Mike forcing Will to dance with a girl (who has a rainbow hairclip), but you literally see Mike’s shocked expression like ‘what,why’d I do that ?’ And after this, they show Dustin looking sad about Max/Lucas dancing and then they have Mike get into the frame (next to Dustin) and look sad when Will/girl are dancing in the same exact frame as Max/Lucas. As they switch between these last 2 shots.

the cannon Spotify playlists-called ‘Mike’s basement beats’- These are character playlists that Spotify and St worked on together after s2.

-his first song is “small town boy” an 80s LGBT anthem about living in a small town and being queer and bullied. Every band member was openly gay.

-his 11th song is ‘don’t you want me’ from a “celebrate your gay pride” album

* But queer people are “delusional” for thinking Mike isn’t straight? And are told to “open your eyes and watch the show” (that was an actual quote in the byler tag). Ok? Take your own advice, then! XD

One of the Duffers cited inspirations for ST is SUPER GAY (and what they based the byler dynamic off of).

In the Will comic, Will throws an old 1970s book called “house of stairs” at the demorgorgan. And in a later chapter Mike and Will just read together at the library (just silently reading together, enjoying each others’ company-totally not a romantic cliche).And Mike warns Will the book ‘could have spoilers’ for the d&d campaign. Also look at this byler-centric cover :)

Peter (Will) is shy, quiet ,initially a pushover, and gay-coded. And as a coping mechanism he has psychological-breaks with reality where he thinks of his best friend from the orphanage, Jasper (Mike) . Another kidnapped boy, named Oliver (who looks just like Jasper/Mike) is also queer-coded (but a violent-sociopath). And, unlike Jasper who actually wanted to protect/take care of Peter -Oliver starts to gets a sick thrill out of making Peter dependent on him (which Peter catches on to pretty quickly). Oliver was insistent on being the only one to ‘wake’ Peter from his episodes (just like how Mike did for Will, in s2), except Oliver calls him pet-names like “sweetheart, baby, etc.”

And again to prove it’s queer-coded I’ll read some of the (shortened) quotes, in the order they were written. These are quotes from Peter (Will’s) pov talking about his childhood best-friend Jasper (Mike) .

-“his room. His and jaspers room. Jasper looking up from his desk, smiling glad to see him. Jasper saying . Something very important. The most important message, the secret message. He couldn’t hear him . But jasper keeps smiling , keeps talking . What was the message, jasper? What was the message? The dream had been beautiful at the beginning, terrible at the end, but he longed to be in it again. If only he hadn’t awakened.”

-“Jasper sitting on the bed and taking off his shoes ,smiling, ‘you’re okay pete, you’re better than a hundered of those slobs put together. Tomorrow I’ll tell them so myself‘ jasper’s strong, hard body as he got into bed ,so different from peter’s. Strong, to protect him to take care of him. Jasper, who always took care of him”.

-“He wanted to think about oliver it it was like having Jasper back again. It would disturb him to see Oliver go off with Abigail… the rejection quite painful. It had never been like that with Jasper…jasper.

-The room they shared with rainbow colors, murmuring comforting words to him , enclosing and protecting him. He let himself drift into it, the rainbow hues dimness.”

-“No one ever depended on him. It was he who always depended on others, on Jasper. jasper, who had always taken care of him. Jasper…”

later he admits his feelings for Jasper to Lola/el. Lola and Pete are plantonic soulmates. The only reason why they survive and don’t succumb to their dark and violent urges/psychological brainwashing is because of each other. Lola has brown hair and eyes and has a buzzcut and is heavily implied to be a lesbian (as she is the only girl in the group who is not fooled by Oliver’s ‘nice guy act’. Which makes the other girls ‘suspicious’ and alienate her). Also this was written in the 70s… she has a buzzcut and is said to “look like a boy”. It’s not that subtle! There was a reason that the author whose first name was WILLIAM (was suspected to be gay/bi when he was alive)! XD

-Peter says “ he was my friend we were always together . Jasper his name was jasper .in the dream he’s taking care of me’. Now he was beginning to cry, his throat constricting and tears welling up in his eyes .’taking care of me … he always took care of me… taking care of me, and , and … and loving me’. ‘”It was the best time in your life’ she murmured’. ‘Yes’ “

* cough protective childhood friend, rainbows, ‘best time of your life = best thing I ever did.

S3 ending (byler centric ending)

When we first see Mike during the Hopper mologue, the moving truck leaves. “Like you’re pulling away from me or something. I miss playing board games every night (d &d)”… (the last thing they talked about was Will visiting to play d&d and their fight this season started because of a disagreement about d&d.)

Then Mike looks back at the Byers house (just lingers there and looks back as his friends leave) like how Will did seeing Mike hold hands with El and leave . “But I know you’re getting older, growing, changing. I guess, if I’m being really honest, that’s what scares me. I don’t want things to change.”Mike , like Will “doesn’t want things things to change”. He doesn’t want his his feelings of friendship to become romantic in regards to Will, it “scares” him (especially in rural 80s Indiana). Right after Will cries, it immediately switches to Mike hugging his mom- to mirror the time he thought Will died in s1 “So I think maybe that’s why I came in here, to try and maybe stop that change. To turn back the clock. To make things go back to how they were.” He goes back to his mother for comfort, like he did the 1st time he lost Will. But also to reverse back time, to s1, before he realized his feelings for Will were romantic. When things were simpler.

“But I know that’s naive. It’s just not how life works. It’s moving, always moving, whether you like it or not. And yeah, sometimes it’s painful. Sometimes it’s sad. And sometimes, it’s surprising. Happy.” (byler endgame)

Will (in s2) even says everyone treats him like ‘freak/ that something is wrong with him’ (purposely leaving out Mike from the discussion). And then when Will disparages himself as a freak,and Jonathan agrees but asks Will, ‘who would he rather be friends with- David Bowie (who was openly bi since the 70s) or Kenny Rogers’? And when Will says Bowie, Jonathan agrees saying “see, it’s no contest”.

So, it’s just another coincidence that when Will ‘dies’ (in s1) a David Bowie song (‘we can be heroes’) plays. And as Mike hugs his mom, mourning Will - a romantic lyric from the song plays during the hug?“And we kiss, as though nothing could fall. And the shame” (which is heavily queer coded)?

And then in the last ep (in s3) Mike mirrors this scene in s1, hugging his mom, since he feels like he’s losing Will all over again. And right after the hug (‘we can be heroes’) plays again!? I’m not saying byler is endgame. But- WAIT THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT I’M SAYING! XD

These men literally invented ‘hetero-baiting’ (with Robin & Steve) and you think they’re going to queer bait?!

Also, if Will was a girl named ‘Willow” no one would call byler ‘delusional’ ! Even the most casual viewer would say it’s obvious they’d end up together in the end!

If the witness said about El in s1 , “ same height… it could be the Byers girl”, instead of ‘boy’ (pointing out the resemblance). Mike only meeting El cause he was looking for Willow. Proclaiming “i’m the only one who cares about Willow!” . Mike getting into fights and getting upset (almost crying) about the bullies insulting Willow. Mike only getting angry at El when he thinks she lied about Willow being alive. Mike being the only boy who has a scene dedicated to his loss of her (with the same romantic lyrics playing). Mike having a whole binder of her drawings and caressing one of the drawings, after he thinks she died. Mike being the only one of her friends to stay awake at the hospital, waiting for her to wake up- so he can see her and hug her first. People probably would of started shipping it the second Willow stared at him and was the only one who didn’t lie to him, in the first ep! Another parallel to El!

If Will was Willow, the majority of the fandom would be byler shippers. Think about it! . Mike having s2 byler scenes that are identical to s1 mileven scenes, and then additional unique byler scenes. Mike staying by Willow’s side 24 hours a day for several days (not even changing clothes), carrying her out of the hospital, grabbing her hand (with a zoom in shot),constantly asking her if she’s okay at least 5-7 times, putting his arm around her twice, being the only one who could tell something was off with her (and it wasn’t her normal type of quiet). Calling and running all the way to her house and banging on the door to check on her, desperate. Watching her sleep cause he’s so worried. That shed scene reminiscing about how they first met in perfect detail, saying “I asked, I asked if you wanted to be my friend. You said yes, you said yes. It was the best thing I’ve ever done. (like a marriage proposal)” The “crazy together” scene. Them being close since they were 5 vs the girl he knew for a week (but is somehow in love with?). In s2 if Mike sadly watched Willow dance with another guy , while Dustin does the same to Max. Forget it- everyone would already know mileven would be doomed to fail.

And again think about s3 if Will was a girl.They parallel the (comedic) mileven breakup vs (the sad/serious) byler breakup. Then Mike just complains and burps on the couch vs apologizing to Willlow multiple times/even going into a storm to apologize a 2nd time (and to ‘talk’). Willow having a breakdown over the fight vs El laughing and high five-ing Max after.The shed vs the pool shed scene- “best thing I’ve ever done” vs “you’re the most important thing in the world to me”, “blank makes you crazy’ (as El stares confused) vs “crazy together’ (where Willow says ‘yeah, crazy together’). Mike going on ‘movie dates with Willlow all the time’ right after making out with El. The last mileven kiss where Mike has his eyes open the whole time, and doesn’t kiss back. And saying he doesn’t remember saying “I love” you to El (and doesn’t say ‘I love you’ back). Right after having a talk with Willow about playing games when she comes back (the crux of their fight). Mike getting excited that he’ll be able to visit El and Willow on Thanksgiving and them visiting him on Christmas (those are holidays where family usually introduces their S.O.) Having the last scene of Mike, be him looking back at Willow’s house, and have that whole monologue about “feelings changing”, and then he goes to hug his mom like the s1 byler scene where he thought Willow was dead, signifying he lost her again. And that’s not even all the scenes- and every time byler won by a landslide. If Will was a girl, we wouldn’t be ‘delusional’! It would be obvious writing on the wall, that Mike would eventually choose Willow over El by the end of the series.

But since they are 2 boys, we’re delusional, because queer kids don’t exist … apparently.

*S3-I’m not repeating my literal essays but they’re probably better than this post so here are the links to pretty much all my s3 byler meta. (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x)

gif credit: 1st few have the name stark in the gifs, 2nd byler gif (found on wheheart.com- user dream_daisy, not sure if they also have a Tumblr , 3rd livelovecaliforniadreams, 4th &10th Cath-avery, 5& 6th unknown, 7-9 eggogorgon . Tell me if you know the unknown one so I can give credit , please.

#byler #byeler

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