#this is the only persephone myth re-imagining ever actually

[erodingsinner]

I'm sorry but, have we met before? I don't think so. It's just, I'm pretty good with faces and you seem so familiar. I do? Very much.

THE FARE ( 2019 )

[illumiera]

Thehehe

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

from the fanfic writer director's cut asks—feel free to send one in or reblog so I can ask you!

thank you so much, anon!! 💖

⭐the opening lines of i fear no fate—"Laat Dovahkiin wears flowers in her hair. This is the thing that throws Miraak, above all."—were the first lines I ever wrote for this story. I had this very clear image of how Apocrypha might as well be a realm of the dead, an Underworld populated with those who've long since forgotten their mortal lives, and then Miraak is absolutely taken aback by the sudden appearance of Elentari who, by contrast, is riotously, colourfully alive.

⭐ speaking of Elentari and her flowers... this is where my long-lasting love of all things Persephone jumps out. in myth, Persephone has a dual nature as both goddess of spring and Queen of the Underworld so feared and so respected that in many texts, she's referred to only by epithet. I borrowed a little from that with Ellie, who speaks softly and gently, wears flowers in her hair, and excels at Restoration magic—but as her mastery in Destruction will tell you, she's capable of being downright devastating when she wants to be, too.

(it's also not all that often she's called by name, in-universe. it is known around Skyrim, but as Miraak notices, it isn't included in any of the books written about her. those familiar with her will call her "Elentari", or "Ellie" if they're Lucien, but most address her as "Dragonborn", "Dragonslayer", "Flameheart", "Arch-Mage", or "Ysmir".)

⭐but that's not to say that the flowers don't have a lot of symbolism in-universe, too! I like to imagine that Ellie would have started wearing them a while after her resurrection, after she emerged from a months-long haze of grief: a symbol of her new life.

her choice to wear blue mountain flowers in her hair was also very pointed, I think. I've long since envisioned her going to Sovngarde wearing those same flowers, so I like to think that whatever meaning they actually have, she was using them to say something like, "hey, Miraak, whoever you are, I beat the World-Eater, and I'll beat you, too."

(cue Luke Skywalker voice saying, "This is not going to go the way you think...")

⭐ I'm a big fan of sprinkling references to fairy tales and mythology about (in case the entire paragraph I just spent rambling about Persephone didn't already tip you off...), and I intended a certain part of the fourth chapter to be something of a callback to Orpheus and Eurydice. my idea this time was, “what if Orpheus didn’t fail? what if the answer is to walk through the dark, clutching your beloved’s hand, and turn to them and see all that they are and only that way will you be able to bring them back?”

⭐ here's an eyebrow-raising one for you, or for me, at least: in the third chapter, Ellie finds herself dreaming of Labyrinthian, then Bromjunaar, which was ruled by Morokei at the time. since by intervening there, she's rewriting time so that whatever she did was always going to happen, I wonder if Morokei ever felt anything of her while he was alive? magic leaves an echo, after all.

I like to think some part of him—whatever remained behind in his lich—recognised something in the Ellie who came to Labyrinthian shortly before becoming to Arch-Mage, even though the events of i fear no fate hadn't yet started. that's why he defaulted to Dovahzul, expecting an answer, only to switch to Tamrielic when he received no response.

one thing's for sure, she'll soon be very glad she re-killed him...

[onewomancitadel]

@lareanzo said:

Of course, Give me some credit XD. Even I can tell it would be cringy as all hell if she called him that for REAL. But Mercury, now that there's no risk of being charbroiled, would ABSOLUTELY do that to her. 'Yes, I'm sure, this is how people flirt.' And yes I absolutely love the RWBI villains as well. They're so damn adorable. I like the Hades/Persephone myth, at least the versions I've seen. Poor guy needed some warm Spring goddess love.

Lareanzo thinks Cinder should call Jaune Lovedaddy unironically :( Sad!

Right okay the conceit of the fic is Cinder's bumbling extremely wrong overtures of flirting. Lovedaddy can be one element

Am I supposed to write this? is this expected of me? Fic tagged Miscommuncation, Unironic Romcom Trope, Cinder's Sad Backstory

And yes I love the villains in RWBI they're so cute and silly, like my favourite thing ever is heroes and villains not really 'fighting' but playing/being really over the top about it and everybody always failing in some way. It's why I love that Bowser goes go-karting with Mario and Peach or plays tennis. I take the Mario spinoff games as completely canon

I really love overblown dramatic bad guys who are ultimately harmless, Jaune tucking Cinder into bed telling her she's very evil and everybody is afraid of her *kiss on the forehead* Lol

Hades/Persephone is one of those topics that within a near radius everybody has a different opinion on and it's ultimately something I should probably avoid bringing up because I'll step on somebody's toes lol. There are re-renderings of it in modern pop culture that (feminist or unfeminist) are wrong and I don't like, and I don't agree with the idea that Greek religion, because of the way it was added to in oral traditions, is naturally extended into pop culture that is 'as legitimate' as the Greek texts. It's not imo.

On the other side of it though circling around the Greek context and looking at the texts is really fun and that should be for everybody, and I'm not resistant to the idea of adopting and repurposing myth, religion etc. where appropriate. That's not my criticism of it, it's acting like their interpretation of Hades/Persephone is 'more correct' - e.g. Hades is simply a violent rapist; Persephone was actually making a very feminist choice to go with him - when it's more complicated than that. Particularly in say the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, where Demeter is the perspective figure, there's a lot going on there that's more than just about what Hades and Persephone are doing (or 'choosing' to do).

...

I did this to myself

but yes, I agree. I like me some Death and the Maiden loving.

... sorry everybody. I imagine you are the only person reading this so you can have my opinion.

I also think it's at the forefront of my mind because the author who did The Song of Achilles and Circe is now doing Persephone and I dread it. I really truly dread it. It's not the retellings I have a problem with, it's the way she does them. In particular.

Anyway yay Knightfall. More positive note. I hope I don't come off like a bitter bitch lol.

Have you watched RWBY Chibi? I was watching a chibi Cinder compilation and she's just too precious at times. Also, there's a clip of her saying

~Well hello, Lovedaddy~

And although she meant Taiyang now I've got the image of someone (probably Yang or Mercury) convincing her to say it to Jaune, and him becoming a stuttering mess until he realizes what happened.

ALSO also, there's a clip where she sorta-kidnaps Ren and Jaune and Jaune saves them by annoying her until she kicks them out of the car. Kinda reminded me of your fic! The one that turns out incredibly steamy. Loved it, btw.

Oh yeah, I directly referenced that Chibi skit in The One Known by Many Names. Smushing together the dark one absconding with the sweet one AKA mild Death and the Maiden slash Hades and Persephone elements with a cracky, non-canon skit show is like exactly my brand.

I love R/WBY Chibi lol, defanged villains being silly are my favourite thing ever. Jaune is so cute in it.

I also made posts about the... ahem... kidnapping here (I think my case was Knightfall) and here back in August lol.

Because there's stuff that RWBI (they should call it that, that's cute, it's just a typo though) foreshadowed as a joke, like talking Grimm (the Hound), I maintain that Cinder's going to kidnap Jaune and it's going to be le epic. And they'll give me Knightfall

A girl can dream

Ok nvm I'm going to repost those screencaps

Her mischievous little face and his happy little smile, I hate adore them

The joke here is that he's really enthusiastic about his kidnapping and Cinder didn't expect it. Please make this happen in canon

For that matter, the Explicit-rated version of his enthusiasm is in The One Known by Many Names.

I would be very happy if Cinder never, ever called Jaune Lovedaddy. Please don't do that to me (okay, unless it's a total setup on Mercury's part like you say, and then Jaune figures out later she was trying to flirt with him... I might be able to take that).

Hope you are having a good day. (o:

[madsigano]

Because you Love to Hate me- Book review

Warning: May contain spoilers!

Because you Love to Hate me was a book I had been dying to get a hold of ever since a few of my favourite Booktubers mentioned this collaboration. 

The book contains 13 short stories of villains, each author paired with a Booktuber to give them a prompt for said short story. I have to admit, some stories I absolutely loved... others I either had a neutral or slightly negative opinion of. Let’s go through them:

The Blood of Imuriv by Renee Ahdieh, prompt by Christine Riccio:

This short story prompt was “The Grandson of an Evil, Matriarchal Dictator who tried to rule over the universe wants to follow in her footsteps and accidentally loses his temper, killing his sibling in a game of chess”. Wow, Christine. That’s a prompt and a half. 

The thing about this story was that although it was very good, there was too much content for the reader to fully grasp the storyline itself. This would make for a good book, but the shortened version left my head thinking the story lacked, simply from the amount of information that had to be thrown at the reader for the story to make sense. Christine- although I love her- could have maybe made the prompt a little easier for Renee to write something readers would appreciate more. That said, if this short was made into a novel, I can guarantee I would enjoy it more. 

3/5 stars.

Jack by Ameriie, prompt by Tina Burke:

The prompt given for this story was “Jack and the Beanstalk meets Phalaris of Agrigento”. One of the more well thought out ideas for a prompt, I’ll give you that, Tina.

However this was one of the stories I didn’t enjoy as much. Don’t get me wrong, I love a good “take a childhood classic and remake it”... but this just didn’t grab me. I rarely find a book I struggle to read through, but this was one. The character to me didn’t feel villain-y, and I also struggled to connect with her. 

The friendship between man and giant didn’t really feel like that, which is probably why the ending didn’t shock me as much as I think Ameriie was intending. 

It shocked me, but only in the way that there was no build up. Had I been given hints to this happening it may have affected me, but I personally felt it was a bit hit-and-miss.

2/5 stars.

Gwen and Art and Lance by Soman Chainani, prompt by Samantha Lane:

The prompt for this story was “A modern-day mash-up of the King Arthur Legend and Persephone-Hades Myth”. As someone who avidly loves all things myth and legend, I had high hopes for this one, Samantha.

However, this didn’t feel evil. I loved the context and the layout of text-style storytelling, I thought this was pretty creative actually. But this didn’t fit with the book for me. I was expecting one of the boys to act more like Hades and be cunning in his pursuit of Gwen, or for Gwen herself to feel a bit more villain-y. But I just got that High School not even the meanest of mean girl vibe.

2/5 stars.

Shirley and Jim by Susan Dennard, prompt by Sasha Alsberg:

“A young Moriarty”. Many things to be done with that prompt. I maybe would have expected the story to just be about Moriarty and his psychopathic ways coming to the surface, like a true origin story. But I got a gender-bent Sherlock and John. As teenage girls swooning over teenage-hottie-new-guy Jim Moriarty. 

Okay... I was actually surprised at how much I ended up liking this one. Sherlock is one of my favourite shows, and yes I am one of those people who ship Johnlock and/or Jimlock. So for Moriarty and Shirley to be a kind-of couple warmed my little shipper heart. 

But the end. It was so well done. The twists and the explanations just... Ah! 

4/5 stars.

The Blessing of Little Wants by Sarah Enni, prompt by Sophia Lee:

The author’s prompt for this story was “ A Dark Sorcerer’s motives for seeking immortality or Omnipotence”. First thing you think is, “Voldemort!” right? (If you haven’t figured already I skipped to the prompt before reading the story itself). But alas, no Tom Riddle for us.

I got serious Magneto vibes instead, and I’m not complaining. I was confused to the extreme; WAS HE REAL?! I thought he was part of her imagination but then her reaction confused me even further. Definitely well written on Sarah’s part. This seriously needs to be a book just so I can find out answers.

4/5 stars.

The Sea Witch by Marissa Meyer, prompt by Zoe Herdt:

Zoe’s prompt was “What if the Sea Witch had previously been in the Little Mermaid’s shoes but decided to kill the love interest and turn back into a mermaid instead?”. Let me just start by saying that “what if...” is my favourite prompt for any book. Every scenario in my head is a what if of book characters. 

This story was one of my favourites in this book, simply because it was this kind of origin story I had been expecting and waiting for. The plot of an outcast mermaid who has a serious fangirl crush (let’s be real- who doesn’t have an unhealthy crush on someone famous?), gets rejected in the most awful way, gets bullied by him and his slimy girlfriend, tries to kill herself, falls in love again with a human, becomes human for him, only to get betrayed by him, then (my favourite part) lets him enjoy his wedding day until she slits his throat. Good on you girl. Promptly returning to the sea, she becomes the sea witch we all know and love to hate.

5/5 stars.

Beautiful Venom by Cindy Pon, prompt by Benjamin Alderson:

Warning: mentions of rape.

When I read the prompt “Medusa, Go!” I was not expecting to read such an amazing story. Medusa was one of my all-time favourite legends from history when I was younger, so when I say I had high expectations, I mean really high.

And I was not let down. This story features easily the most evil villain in this book, and I don’t mean Mei Du/ Jia Mei Feng. This Medusa tale has an Asian twist to it, placing the well known Greek Mythology Gods into this culture instead. Jia Mei Feng is one of the lucky girls to be chosen to be the Emperor’s new wife, but the at-first dashing Hai Xin unexpectedly comes into her life and will not leave her alone. Her path twists violently into a dark path when Hai Xin kidnaps Mei, and rapes her when she says No.

I cried so much at this story, as it truly represents victim blaming as well as the rape culture, and the Goddess of Purity (Goddess of Bitchiness as far as I’m concerned) blames Mei, asking “did you say no?” and “Did you refuse him during his first visit?”. The Goddess curses Mei to look as ugly as a serpent, becoming Medusa, for something that was not her fault.

The power this story holds is incredible, showing that we must not ignore these issues and unite against victim blaming and rape culture. It is not ok.

5/5 stars.

Death Knell by Victoria Schwab, prompt by Jesse George:

The prompt for this story was “Hades waked up after being unconscious at the bottom of a well in Ireland”. The lyrical, beautiful writing from Victoria in this story was extraordinary and had me hooked from the start.

The relationship that blossoms between Death and Grace is short and quick, which is normally something I don’t particularly like, but I found myself enjoying the rapid romance between the living girl and the boy tasked with transporting her to death. 

Although this story was very predictable- you knew as soon as she avoided him the first time that she was going to escape death at any cost. And you knew as soon as they were near the well that she wasn’t going in. Yet I wasn’t disappointed. 

4/5 stars.

Marigold by Samantha Shannon, prompt by Regan Perusse:

I have to admit, I had to re-read this one when writing my notes because I had completely forgotten about it. an “Era-Queen retelling in Nineteenth-Century London” was a very good prompt, and I’m a sucker for historical retellings. 

Yet I couldn’t remember it. And then when I read it I understood why. Nothing about this story grabbed me. Which surprises me given my previous statement about how much I love historical retellings. It wasn’t that I thought it was particularly bad, it was actually very well written, but it just didn’t grab me.

3/5 stars.

You, You, It’s all about You by Adam Silvera, prompt by Catriona Feeney:

This story’s prompt by Catriona was “A female teen crime lord concealed by a mask”.

The immediate aspect that spiked my interest was the second person point of view. Second person is always guaranteed to interest me as the character is you, which brings you even deeper into the story. The main character herself was definitely one of the most twisted villains in this book; wearing a mask made of the flesh of her abusive father. That was very disturbingly creative on Adam’s part. The storyline of the drugs being made by this crime lord was incredibly creative, not just using illegal drugs we already know about, but using the drugs to make the character even more disturbing.

4/5 stars.

Julian breaks every rule by Andrew Smith, prompt by Raeleen Lemay: 

The prompt “A psychopath in a futuristic setting” really excited me, as I have a worrying love of psychopaths. 

Andrew did not disappoint, making me laugh out loud earning strange looks from people near me, and just overall writing a very good story. 

I do want to know what Andrew has planned for Julian though, as that cliffhanger left me aching for more.

4/5 stars.

Indigo and Shade by April Genevieve Tucholke, prompt by Whitney Atkinson:

“Beauty and the Beast: Suitor’s revenge” does actually sound like the dark sequel to the classic tale, but this story strayed from the darkness it could have been. 

To be honest, I find the Beauty and the Beast story to be overused right now, as the Cinderella one was for a time. This story I’m afraid to say does slot into the overused category. The story was good, don’t get me wrong, but it was the bad side of predictable.

3/5 stars.

Sera by Nicola Yoon, prompt by Steph Sinclair and Kat Kennedy:

Congratulations Nicola, Steph and Kat- you made my favourite story in this book! Talk about saving the best for last. As previously stated, I love all things myth and legend. So the prompt “Gender-flipped God of War” is so far up my street it’s in my back garden.

I could go on forever about this short story, but I’ll dial it down as much as I can.

The writing style from Nicola was amazing; a diary documentation kind of layout, watching Sera grow and seeing from her mother’s eyes what was happening. It did make me laugh a few times throughout; especially when little Sera put up finger guns to the murderer and said “bang bang”. I thought that was just a very funny image. 

The best part of this story was the POV flip at the end. We’d seen from Sera’s mother’s third person POV that Sera had been extremely ill, and then it had jumped to Kareena watching Callie being burned alive by Sera.

But the POV flip to Sera’s POV creates a reallllllly condensed version of the last 15 or so pages, showing the reader how she felt this entire time. She changed her appearance dramatically by dying her hair and wearing contacts because she wanted her mother to love her, and the “light” she was feeling was something she knew was dangerous so she tried to conceal it, making her ill. 

And then we find out that her sister tried to kill her while their mother stood and watched, hence why Sera killed her sister. This moment had my mouth nearly to the floor. Beautiful writing from Nicola and a perfect prompt from Steph and Kat.

5/5 stars.

If you didn’t agree with my review please feel free to comment, but please don’t write anything offensive! 

Likewise if you did agree, or enjoyed this, or want to add a bit more then please feel free to comment or message me!

[newmayhem]

Rereading ITFOTN

Some notes from my rereading of In the Forests of the Night. I’ll be using this as a guide for the re-write and will add links as I address some of the notes in separate posts.

The Good

I like that it’s so concise. Seriously, not a single word is wasted and there’s no weird purple prose. In the span of only a hundred or so pages, it achieves exactly what it set out to be- a very focused character study that serves as a compelling introduction to a larger world.

We learn a lot about this world very quickly. While ‘Show, don’t tell’ is the general rule, it isn’t always the best choice.

The back and forth between past and present is very well done. Each section leads seamlessly into the next and it’s arranged in a way that builds tension and keeps the pace up. It’s so tightly woven, that I can’t even imagine how I’d ever be able to make any change to it without having to change 3-5 other things.

Having it all be in first person was really clever in that it let the readers get to know Risika while keeping her solitary. I also enjoyed her narrative voice. You get the sense that she’s so done with everything. She’s no longer the ‘ingenue’ that we typically see in YA vampire lit, it’s like she’s a deconstruction of that (or she would be if this had been published recently).

Most of all, I really loved that this is a YA vampire book about a female vampire and that it lets her be cynical and monstrous. The story is completely about her getting revenge and learning to accept herself as she is, it doesn’t revolve around a love interest. In so many ways, it was not only ahead of its time, it’s ahead of current/recent YA vampire lit.

The Not-so-good

Even though I liked how concise the book was, it still left something to be desired. Even with the book being focused on Risika and told from her pov, I still feel like the intricacies of her personality could’ve been pushed further. It goes by so fast that we don’t actually see the character development that got Risika from being afraid of Aubrey to brazenly challenging him.

Upon rereading, I realized that the main reason why it goes by so quickly is that there wasn’t actually much of a plot- it’s missing a second act. The story is mostly lots of exposition and then the final showdown. In fact, most of it is told in flashbacks, which, because it dovetails so well with the present-day parts of the story, kind of distracts from the fact that there isn’t that much that happens between Risika finding the rose and her fight with Aubrey.

While this is clearly a story about Risika getting her revenge, I kind of feel like there’s no real driving force. Even with how she even got into this situation of having to confront Aubrey just felt like an accident.

A general criticism that I have about the series is that so much of the information we get about it is Word of God and not in the actual text. I would really like to see more of the world in the text through showing and not just Risika telling us about everything. I also noticed a few moments where the first person narration oversteps. Like, Risika would be telling the reader all these things that would make more sense coming from an omniscient narrator.

There were definitely a few cringe moments befitting a debut novel written by a teenager. These include:

That whole mirror trick for having characters describe what they look like.

Alexander’s notes to Risika being soaked in tears.

Risika giving herself chunky highlights as a symbol of remembrance and defiance.

Risika burning Aubrey’s note and leaving the ashes on his territory as a ‘Take that!’ while also consciously avoiding hunting there is also really lame.

I don’t really like some of the names.

They’re fun for what they are, but I’ll probably leave them out of my rewrite.

This is probably nit picky, but there are also some weird sudden changes in verb tense.

Plot holes

The original text implies that Risika’s been in Concord for the entire 300 years she’s been a vampire. I find this very unlikely.

That said, if she only recently returned, what prompted her? This sounds like it could be an opening to expand the story with a bigger plot line that affects/reflects the state of the vampire world.

Why did Alexander wait 300 years to come find Risika? What ultimately caused him to go in search of her? I feel like it’s very unlikely that he just had no idea where she was and coincidentally never bumped into her. If he wanted to find her, and he knew where she would be (in order to send her the that last note at the zoo), why didn’t he just stick around a little longer to talk to her in person?

Word of God says that Aubrey was the one who convinced Ather to change Risika and that all of his interactions with Risika were to help her, but that still doesn't answer the question as to why he would do all that in the first place.

How did Risika not know that she was on Aubrey’s land (especially if she had spent the past few centuries actively avoiding him)? Risika said that she’s hunted in the area before but hasn’t experienced any trouble. If Aubrey’s so powerful and influential, why did it take so long for him to realize that she had been trespassing? If he did realize before, why did he wait to warn her off?

Did Ather and/or Aubrey know about Risika’s true heritage and what became of her mother? Did anyone? If so, how does she still not know? Did Alexander find out? If Lila lives in New Mayhem (according to Word of God), how has she never run into Risika? If no one knows about this...how?

All in all, it’s a very good starting point, but there’s so much room to expand.

Things that could be expanded upon

Risika’s relationships - I get that she’s really solitary and the whole point is that she’s sequestered herself away from vampire society, but I do think there’s still a way to do that without cutting her off from all contact completely. And also, the other characters are really interesting and would offer additional insight into the world.

Aubrey - I think everything would make a little more sense if they had interacted more than three times. There’s also that ambiguity about his motivations regarding Risika that’s really interesting.

Alexander - I think we should go more in depth with how much of a dick he is. I really want to see the signs that their relationship isn’t actually so great and to see that deterioration because there are a lot of moments even in the flashbacks that could be taken as tension points between them.

Ather - I just want to see what Ather’s up to these days and also to challenge everyone’s dismissal of her as being someone weak who tries to sire much stronger fledglings in the hopes that they’ll protect her.

Jager - He’s really interesting in that he comes across as the only sane man, the flaneur old timer who’s amused by what all these youngins are doing, but at the same time you can’t help but suspect that he might have a hidden agenda.

Lynette - I’m cool with her not having a big part in the story, but I think it would be a better use of her character to have her serve as a foil for Risika and also to highlight Risika’s sense of alienation even while she was human.

Peter - Again, he can stay a side character, but Word of God says that he knew about the twins’ heritage and I really want to explore that angle and what kind of tension might exist between him and his children.

Lila - So much of her story is Word of God, which kind of sucks because it adds such a different dimension to Risika’s story.

Risika’s coming of age story - This is mostly a revenge tale, but I also see it as a story of Risika coming to terms with who she is.

The world - Like I said before, some of the plot holes relating to why the story even started in the first place leave an opening for us to see some of the larger political or societal conflicts of nyeusigrube.

I’ve been debating switching the first person narration to third person. I might end up going with third person narration because it’ll force me to actually rewrite and not just edit. But if I stay with first person narration, it would be cool to play with the idea of Risika as an unreliable narrator (probably by bringing in first person povs from other characters).

It's a little too monochromatic for my taste (and needlessly so). I’d really like to find a way to add some melanin here.

I also noticed some parallels with the Persephone myth, which might be worth exploring.

Also, wouldn’t it be cool if Risika’s witch powers had also manifested while she was human?

[joannalannister]

I don't think it's in your area of expertise but... what are your thoughts on the Jojenpaste theory? How do you think Jojen will meet his end?

I don’t believe in the Jojen Paste theory. @nobodysuspectsthebutterfly and @poorquentyn already covered this quite nicely so I’m just gonna let them do the dirty work for me:

if you’re trying to log on to the Weirwood Net, logically you’d use something made from weirwood

the paste is red because weirwood sap is red

although the show and the books are completely separate, jojen dying on the show when he did probably confirms that he was not made into paste

and @poorquentyn points out that weirwood paste seems related to shade of the evening, suggesting that Bran ate a plant

With all that out of the way, I can spend my time talking about more important things, aka ASOIAF themes. Because thematically, this passage has never suggested cannibalism to me:

It had a bitter taste, though not so bitter as acorn paste. The first spoonful was the hardest to get down. He almost retched it right back up. The second tasted better. The third was almost sweet. The rest he spooned up eagerly. Why had he thought that it was bitter? It tasted of honey, of new-fallen snow, of pepper and cinnamon and the last kiss his mother ever gave him.

What would you give for a magic potion that let’s you revisit your beloved dead? To see their faces as you did in life? To hear their voices, not a recording but their actual voices? To see them smile again, and perhaps even get the message through to them that you love them? I don’t know about you, but I would give quite a lot. 

But “it does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live” (JKR). In GRRM’s own words, “Bright and many-colored are the webs the dream-spiders weave. […] Sometimes […] the wrongness of it all hits me, and I know I’ve dwelt with dreams too long. Yet the dreams are often better than the waking, the stories so much finer than the lives.” (Why won’t y’all read Dreamsongs?)

The weirwood paste is (literally) bittersweet. It’s a sweet, beautiful thing to be able to visit the past and see your family again, but it’s dangerous too. “Bitterness is a signal of potential toxicity” [x]. I don’t believe weirwood paste is literally toxic, but it’s dangerous in so many ways. What will Bran see that was better left unseen? What happens if Bran can change events in the past? What about Hodor? Is it possible to become addicted to the weirwood paste? 

“Bright and man-colored are the webs the dream-spiders weave…” The weirwood paste offers something bright and beautiful, “silver and scarlet, indigo and azure,” but Bran must be careful not to become caught in its deadly trap. Especially when the cave falls under siege, which I predicted years before the show did that. 

The horror of weirwood sap doesn’t come from cannibalism. The horror comes from touching the divine and gaining these godlike powers of peering through time and even influencing events. It’s wondrous, to be sure (hence the sweet taste) but it’s horrible too. So often in fantasy, becoming this messiah-figure, holding communion the divine, is something lonely and sad and ... well, bitter. 

And symbolically, in my opinion, eating such transcendent fairytale food in Bloodraven’s underworld / liminal space / non-human realm is suggestive of Persephone, who was a resident of two worlds, in a perpetual cycle of death and rebirth. (Literally, Bran is eating “weirwood seeds” and red weirwood sap while Persephone ate red pomegranate seeds.)

The Greeks believed that eating ritual food was communion, a participation with the gods and their powers. […] The ‘seeds of death’ which consummate the marriage of Kore and Hades are part of a complex and powerful symbol. The pomegranate’s many seeds make it an obvious symbol of fertility and it was used both in marriage rites and at funerals in Greece, thus linking the two and underscoring again the motif of ‘fertile death’. It also reveals twin mythological themes of vital import to ancient Greeks and found still among some Greeks in rural areas today: marriage as death and death as a marriage. [x]

I would say that Bran shares this symbolism of “fertile death” - literally summer in the midst of endless winter. 

And the color of the weirwood has a lot of symbolism too. The Greeks believed that red, the color of the pomegranate, “red, the blood–color, was also sacred to the dead” [x] That’s why I think GRRM wrote that the weirwood paste “looked remarkably like blood,” to emphasize the mystical connection to the past, allowing Bran to have all of his visions. 

“Another link [between pomegranates and] the realm of the Dead was the belief among the ancients that souls nibbled at the pomegranate seeds laid on their graves.” [x] So to me the weirwood paste is a connection to all the greenseers who have come before, who have gone “into the trees” and become a part of the weirwood net. 

This is talking about Persephone, but it feels like a summary of Bran’s story to me:

“You will go back again to the secret places of the earth and dwell there a third part of the seasons of the year and two parts among men and the other gods. When the earth blooms with sweet–smelling spring flowers of all kinds, then up from the misty darkness you will come again, a wonder to gods and to all mortal men.” […]

The […] connection of the [Persephone] myth with the cyclicity of nature is far more than an explanation of how the seasons came about. It expresses […] the human hunger for participation and meaning, inspiration and hope. To 'feel into’ the season of winter: to take into one’s self the barrenness, the dormancy, the separation from and seeming cessation of life; to experience it all as if it were the loss of the Kore child, vibrant and cherished; to draw it even deeper into one’s own life, experience the bitterness, the grieving, the raging over all of the places where life spirals downward, appears to be lost: this is the start of initiation. But to follow Persephone on this path, to see her in Nature, is also to experience return. For at the darkest point of winter, the solstice point, the light returns, and life begins to stir again, breaking forth from its hiddenness under the earth, re–emerging in the miracle, the utterly dependable sequel to death: the season of spring. She returns and, with her, the dead are reborn, blossoming forth like flowers and grain: the initiation is complete, the vision fulfilled— only to begin and repeat the whole cycle again. [x]

“to take into one’s self the barrenness, the dormancy” // “Yet to Bran it felt as if they had all died while he had slept … or perhaps Bran had died”

“the separation from and seeming cessation of life” // “It was not dead, just broken. Like me, he thought. I’m not dead either.”

“the loss of the Kore child, vibrant and cherished” // “He was my special boy.”

“the bitterness, the grieving, the raging over all of the places where life spirals downward, appears to be lost: this is the start of initiation.” // “You will never walk again, but you will fly.”

“also to experience return” // A Dream of Spring

“only to begin and repeat the whole cycle again.” // “The war has been waged since time began, and before it is done, all men must choose where they will stand.”

Regarding Jojen’s death … I’m not sure. Probably something heroic, during the Battle for the Cave. I’m not the best at predicting anything North of the Neck, so instead let’s look at how beautiful and heartbreaking this is:

“It tasted of honey, of new-fallen snow, of pepper and cinnamon and the last kiss his mother ever gave him.”

It’s got that ache and that longing which I love in GRRM’s writing. Imagine how painful Jojen’s death will be, if GRRM can do this much when he’s only writing about food, and nasty weirwood paste food at that. 

(Honestly tho, more analysis needs to be done about food in ASOIAF, because there’s so much more to all the food than we give GRRM credit for, with all the fairytale / fantasy symbolism he uses.)

(I still haven’t gotten over what GRRM wrote about ice cream, friends.)

But yeah … the paste isn’t Jojen. 

[scriptmyth]

Persephone, Kore, and the Brides of Hades

Persephone and Hades, and their relationship, is a story told and re-told. You might have heard that Persephone went willingly with Hades, or that she came to love him, or that she died, or that her name was originally Kore.

There are many versions of the story, and it’s hard to pin down the “original” version. So while the following version (and subsequent interpretations) may not be from the version you’re familiar with, it is based on the common elements of the ancient sources (such as Homeric hymns, Hesiod, and Ovid).

Who is Kore and how did she become Persephone?

Kore (also spelled Core) was a goddess of spring, growth, and bounty. Her name meant “maiden.” She was worshiped alongside her mother, Demeter, in the Eleusinian Mysteries. It is only after she has eaten the pomegranate seeds (which mean she must return to the Underworld) and emerged back into the land of the living that her name changed to Persephone (which means “she who brings doom” or “the chaos bringer” depending on who you talk to).

In most translations, and even many ancient sources, she is only ever referred to as Persephone. In the case of translations, it is likely that this is to reduce confusion. In ancient sources, it’s interesting that only some of them call her Kore prior to her abduction. This could be a case of two distinct goddesses with similar stories or domains of influence being combined into a single one, or it could simply be that by the time of the Homeric Hymn of Demeter (for example), the name of Kore had fallen out of common usage, leaving only her transformed name--Persephone.

Did Persephone go willingly with Hades?

While it makes for a more romantic story to envision Persephone running away with Hades, this appears to be a later variant. In Myths of the Underworld Journey: Plato, Aristophanes, and the Orphic Gold Tablets (by Radcliffe G. Edmonds, III) Persephone is reported to be a guardian of the Underworld/challenger of those attempting to gain entrance to the Underworld; she completes this function without Hades. There are also further references to her being the sole (or supreme) ruler of the Underworld and though I have no original sources for it, there is a version in which Persephone wanders willingly down to the Underworld and becomes its Queen because of the pity she feels for the abandoned souls there. Again, with no mention of Hades.

Dating these versions is difficult. The ones reported by Edmonds are linked to the Eleusinian Mysteries (which would have come after the Hades/Persephone version), but that doesn’t mean they weren’t based on proto-versions of the myth, or even adopted from another culture with a similar story of how the goddess of the Underworld came to her position.

Did Persephone come to love Hades?

Once more, it is romantic to assume that Persephone and Hades came to have a mutually loving relationship, but the sad reality is that the pair are very rarely shown interacting with one another. In myths, such as that of Orpheus, they may appear together, but only interact with the hero of the myth.

It’s interesting to note that in southern Italy, their version claimed Persephone refused to leave the Underworld (as reported by Edmonds [see above], though no mention of Hades or her relationship to him).

Women at that time did not marry for love. Nor was it something that was expected to “blossom over time.” Marriage was a relationship of utility, specifically meant to increase the status, power, and wealth of the families of the two getting married. (A little silver lining, there are recovered love letters between husbands and wives, so that proves at least some of the couples in antiquity loved one another)

And right in the Hymn to Demeter, Demeter slams Hades directly to Persephone, calling him loathsome. Though it isn’t stated explicitly, I imagine such Hades-bashing would occur every time Persephone returned from the Underworld.

Metaphor for the Seasons

Most people can recognize that the myth is explaining why the seasons change. For a third of the year, Persephone is in the Underworld and nothing grows upon the earth. She returns and brings with her spring.

Interestingly, the Eleusinian Mysteries were broken into two parts. The Lesser Mysteries took place in the spring and purified participants for the September Greater Mysteries. Initiates were sworn to secrecy on the pain of death, so even though this appears to have been a ritual many aspired to take part in, there is little that is known about the specific ritual. We know that the Greater Mystery starts with initiates (aka the participants) walking from Athens to Eleusis, calling for Kore, before resting beside the well that Demeter supposedly paused at. They would rest by the well, fasting, until they drank a special beverage called kykeon (some scholars think it was psychotropic).

After, the initiates would descend into an underground theatre and the secret ritual took place. Scholars theorize that it may have involved a (symbolic) re-enactment of Persephone’s death and rebirth. One of my professors in university thought it might have involved watching a maiden lose her virginity, though given that some ‘testimonials’ from ancient sources (like Plato and Plutarch), it seems that initiates may have participated in the ritual (instead of simply watching)--which makes the logistics of my professor’s theory unpleasant.

But that the Greater Mysteries took place in September, rather than in the spring suggests a different way of looking at the cycle of seasons. It could be a promise that the coming winter will end, or it could be a promise that even in death people will be cared for (many people left with a changed world-view and no fear of death), or it could even be a celebration of the coming winter. We just don’t know for sure.

Metaphor for Marriage

Beneath the obvious metaphor for the seasons, is a metaphor for marriage.

It was a tradition for young maidens in ancient Greece to be ‘kidnapped’ prior to their wedding. It was a rite known as “hand on wrist” and was a symbolic kidnapping--part of the transfer of power from a maiden’s father to her husband. It primarily consisted of the groom taking the bride by the wrist and leading her to her new home.

Then there is the tradition of the stephane--a crown made of metal or flowers that maidens wore on their wedding day. And Persephone is almost always described as gathering flowers prior to the abduction.

While many flowers are named, I find it interesting that almost all of them are purple (with the only exceptions being a rose and a narcissus). The wedding dress of women were purple gowns, trimmed in gold, with a red veil covering their face. The colours of the flowers she was gathering.

Further, in ancient Greece, women had no say in who they married. A maiden’s kyrios (guardian, generally their father) would make the agreement with the husband-to-be (or his guardian if, for some reason, the betrothal was being made between two under-age people). The Hymn to Demeter (the primary source of this myth) states repeatedly that Zeus had given his permission to Hades. It was, as far as ancient Greeks would have been concerned, a completely legal marriage arrangement.

Now, there are several marriage rites that are not observed according to the Hymn to Demeter, such as Persephone dedicating a lock of hair, clothes, and toys to Artemis; or the ritual bathing the morning of the marriage; or her mother/mother-in-law carrying a torch as she’s escorted to her new home--though Demeter does wander around with lit torches after she can’t find Persephone--but the Hymn to Demeter doesn’t dwell on Persephone again until Zeus commands Hades to return Persephone.

And many of the other parts of the marriage rites involved symbolic deaths (and actual deaths...there were a lot of sacrifices). The connection between death and marriage was strong, and cannot be ignored when considering the story of Persephone and Hades.

Metaphor for Death

Finally, there is the strong possibility that the story is a metaphor for Persephone’s death. The Eleusinian Mysteries (as far as can be determined) culminate in a re-enactment of the death and rebirth of Persephone after all.

In ancient Greece, if a maiden died before marriage, her family would still observe many of the marriage rituals. She would be ritually bathed, dressed in clothes reminiscent of wedding attire, and proclaimed to be a ‘bride of Hades.’

Though unwed maidens were called ‘brides of Hades’ they were not expected or believed to supplant Persephone. For women at this time, their purpose in life was to marry and have children, thus by claiming the title of ‘bride of Hades,’ even those girls who died young would have achieved at least part of their life’s purpose. This was a narrative meant to ease the pain of losing a daughter.

So it would have been understood by ancient Greeks that Persephone being carried off to be the bride of Hades was an allusion to all the young women who died before they could marry.

And let’s not forget that whatever secret ritual was part of the Eleusinian Mysteries, initiates left with no fear of death. Plutarch (an initiate) wrote to his wife after his daughter’s death and declared “because of those sacred and faithful promises given in the mysteries...we hold it firmly for an undoubted truth that our soul is incorruptible and immortal. Let us behave ourselves accordingly" [source] which supports the idea that the story of Persephone was understood on some level to be the story of a maiden dying.

Final Thoughts

While there are many versions of this myth, and it continues to be a common one to be re-interpreted for the sake of a story, it’s good to know the origins and allusions. Understanding the original themes and motivations for a myth allows you to better adapt it to your writing/story needs.