#this is not necessarily good! this is why he gets talked into invading jotunheim by someone he sees no reason not to trust

[nostalgia-tblr]

The dark world thought. Loki keeps calling thor brother (mostly to annoy him) in the movie. idk why but i was hoping at least once thor would scream at him and say "STOP CALLING ME THAT"

Note to self: watch Thor 2: The Dark World. See, I think it's the other way round, and my answer involves thoughts I had about the thorki fic I inisist I will never write so fair warning for that BUT of the two it's Loki who's far more likely to insist they're not really brothers and shouldn't call each other that. A thought I had from the first film and then failed to post (I don't post ALL my thoughts on tumblr! Just most of them!) was that the 'worthy' aspect of Mjolnir is very vague and Loki would spend hours and hours trying to pin down 'what does worthy mean,' and utterly convinced that even if he isn't going to fit the criteria there must be a loophole somewhere in the wording that he can use. Whereas Thor probably hasn't spent much time worrying about that - either you're worthy or you're not and the magic hammer just knows which it is. Somehow.

Similarly I don't think Thor cares much about whether he and Loki were technically born to the same parents or even if they're the same species, because they are brothers, they've always been brothers, how can they not be brothers? Meanwhile Loki's upended life largely revolves around the fact that pedantically, legally, whateverly, they aren't really brothers and they never were. Which is why he's open to things getting incestuous now while Thor is still repulsed by his own unbrotherly yearnings. Don't be daft, Thor, we're obviously not brothers, stop calling me that it's not true you're just repeating someone else's lie! But what else would Thor call his brother? It may have been a lie to begin with, and it still might be a lie to other people, but having spent centuries thinking they were brothers and acting like they were then how is that relationship not them being brothers? Had Loki actually been his brother by blood it wouldn't have made a difference so in practical terms how are they suddenly not brothers just because Loki turned out to be a Frost Giant?

Thor wants Loki to stop causing problems and to stop being a dick, but he doesn't want him to stop being his brother (were such a thing even possible in his mind). Whereas Loki's life of crime or even just life on the run would be a lot easier if he didn't have a brother to worry about and who insists on worrying about him.

tl;dr: I got lost about halfway through my answer, sorry. I have more thoughts on this matter than my usually flippant comments might suggest D: D:

[foundlingmother]

*cracks knuckles* Do you know what you’re about to witness, people? You’re about to see a certified Loki stan go full Thor stan on your asses. Buckle up, buckaroos.

Thor in Thor is misunderstood.

Actually, I have no idea if my interpretation is widely considered canon or not. The way I usually see people talk about Thor on this site, he’s either a beautiful, golden space prince(ss), or he’s THE DEVIL and does nothing but abuse poor, misunderstood Loki. I might see brief snippets of nuanced discussion in metas that are more about Loki than Thor, but not a lot on its own. Specifically in regards to Thor, I usually see his character development summarized as “He was kind of an arrogant ass, but he spent a few days on Midgard (and met a girl, and we all know how that changes a man), and then space princess levels of perfection were achieved, and we all agree that the swift transformation was kind of silly, but it was absolute redemption!”

I’m here to offer a slightly different perspective. So, without further ado...

A Comprehensive (But Not Necessarily Comprehensible) Analysis of Odin’s A+ Parenting and Its Impact on Thor in Thor (and Beyond)

For the sake of time and sanity, I’m going to begin from the assumption that Thor is Odin’s favorite. I could waste paragraphs proving this, pointing to Odin pitting Thor and Loki against each other and ultimately choosing Thor, mentioning what Loki says to Odin when he’s breaking down, and bringing in pages from the comics (which are applicable due to the principle of intertextuality... thank you @philosopherking1887 for writing that post), but you’ve probably seen it all before. Either you agree, or you don’t. However, my argument isn’t that Thor was Odin’s favorite, therefore he was an amazing parent to Thor. The way Odin parented Thor, his favorite, was different than how he parented Loki, but different does not equal better.

Where Odin’s parenting of Loki could be classified as neglectful, disinterested, and/or irresponsible, his parenting of Thor could be described as demanding and authoritarian. Thor is the heir, and Loki is the spare. There are advantages and disadvantages to both roles. Loki didn’t have his father’s support, but certain expectations weren’t demanded of him. He was allowed to pursue his interests. At no point are we lead believe that Odin vocally disapproved of or forbade Frigga teaching Loki her magic. Loki becomes insecure due to societal contempt for his interests and skills, and a lack of paternal (and, to a lesser degree, fraternal) respect and attention. Meanwhile, Thor, as the favorite/heir, has to meet all the expectations society places on a man, a warrior, a prince, and a king, with little to no regard given to what he actually wants. Prior to Thor, he seems pleased with his role, but that doesn’t mean his emotional well-being has been addressed. He just happened to enjoy the interests he was expected to cultivate. We know that his feelings aren’t part of the equation because of this little bit of A+ parenting:

Odin: I’m telling you this not as the Allfather, but as your father. You are ready. The time has come for you to take the throne. Embrace and celebrate what you’ve won. Join your warriors. Eat and drink. Revel in their celebration. At least pretend to enjoy yourself.

Pretend to enjoy yourself... *screams* Yes, that’s a thing that happens in the films, and I still see people defend Odin’s parenting. It boggles the mind.

There’s a lot expected of Thor. Failure would be public and disastrous (and it’s really not an option when your expectations are that you’ll take a hereditary position). Considering that, it’s not surprising that Thor is insecure.

Alright! Settle down! I’m going to prove it. Keep your pants on (unless you’d prefer not to... I don’t judge).

Arrogance is a massive red flag for insecurity. People with true self-confidence do not require their ego to be fed. When Thor enters his coronation, he showboats. He eats up the attention. It’s made clear in the script that he was not meant to enter like this, and that he often showboats.

We’re also shown Thor putting Loki in his place, even when it’s clear Loki’s speaking sense. Obsession with position and authority over another, and inability to heed their advice, indicate insecurity. For Thor, it’s also a learned behavior. Odin asserts his position over Thor and shuts down what Thor says when they enter the vaults together after the failed coronation. Odin criticizes him, which makes Thor stubbornly convinced he’s right, but visibly shaken that his father has not agreed with him. That stubbornness indicates insecurity (we’ll speak on this a bit more in a bit).

Thor’s very nearly convinced to leave Jotunheim, but then he’s insulted by a frost giant. Based on Loki immediately knowing how Thor will react, I imagine it’s not the first time Thor’s become violent when mocked. People with a high opinion of themselves are not easily ruffled by insults. I speak from experience. We should also take note of what the insult is. Thor’s masculinity is mocked. I wish I’d remembered this when I wrote about sexism in Asgardian society.

By the end of the movie, Thor’s in the same position we’ve seen Loki in the entire movie. He too wants to make Odin proud. Despite witnessing Odin do nothing to save Loki, Thor still admires his greatness as both a king and a father, and hopes for his approval. Odin grants it this once, but it doesn’t last (again, we’ll explore that in a bit).

There is also the deleted scene with Frigga, which chronologically comes after the “give us a kiss” scene, and prior to the coronation. It’s confirmed that Thor is nervous. He does not seem confident that he’s ready to be king. In private, that insecurity overwhelms him. Then he makes his grand entrance.

More than anything, it’s this insecurity that gets him banished.

Odin doesn’t care a fig for frost giants. I’ve already discussed in detail in other meta how keeping the Casket from them lead to a deterioration of their planet. Odin doesn’t seem concerned by that. He’s a big old racist that compares humans to goats. He never discouraged Thor from speaking about frost giants like they were monsters to slaughter. That’s the popular perception of them in Asgard. Lady Sif and the Warrior’s Three do not care about Thor’s crimes on Jotunheim. They’re quick to try and convince Loki that he should speak to the Allfather after they discover that Loki had the guard go to Odin. That doesn’t change anything about what Thor did (going to another Realm against the orders of his king and attacking), so the fact that they don’t care about any of that is the only conclusion. In TDW, when Frigga speaks to Loki, she only mentions the lives he took on Midgard. No one cares about frost giants. That’s not why Odin banishes Thor. It’s not about punishing him for his crimes on Jotunheim.

Odin decides to banish Thor after Thor says this:

Thor: And you are an old man and a fool!

(Also, Loki seems 100% aware that Thor’s just made things 1000% worse, so I’m willing to believe insulting Odin has historically been a way to get your ass turned to grass.)

What leads Thor to say this to his father, a man he idolizes? Thor’s feeling pretty badass on Jotunheim, even while Loki, Sif, and the Warriors Three run away, Fandral bleeding. When he kills the Jotunheim beast, there’s a moment he realizes that he’s gotten the people he loves killed by bringing them here. His face, full of pride and the thrill of battle, crumples. That’s the moment Thor realizes he’s made a mistake. Then Odin arrives. He embarrasses Thor in front of Laufey (calls him a child). They return to Asgard, and Odin continues to admonish him. An insecure person, confronted by criticism of mistakes they make (or even just the mistakes themselves), will double down. I spoke of how Thor stubbornly convinces himself he’s right when he’s put down by Odin. Here we see it happen again. Thor lashes out. Odin banishes him for disobedience and insolence.

It’s not that three days on Midgard teaches Thor humility and ultimate morality, it’s that Thor’s artificially inflated self-confidence implodes when he can’t lift Mjolnir (Odin finds him unworthy). Loki sticks the nail in the coffin when he lies about their mother refusing to let Thor return to Asgard. It doesn’t turn Thor from an asshole prince into a hero. Thor’s a friendly, good person under his arrogance. Even when he wants to invade Jotunheim, a significant part of his motivation is fear for the safety of Asgard and its people. There’s the desire for glory, too, since Asgard’s like that. Just like Loki, Thor’s motivations are multifaceted. When the arrogance is stripped away, he’s just friendly and good. He’s still misguided due to a millennium of racism. In Avengers, he’s still very aware of Asgardian superiority (willing to take Loki back with open arms even after he’s killed humans, mocks them under the influence of the mind stone). He’s not learned to love frost giants, he’s just learned to listen to Odin. Odin didn’t want to actively murder all of the frost giants (he just wanted them to slowly die out because he’s a monster), so Thor doesn’t want Loki to do that.

Odin gets the obedient Thor he wanted. That’s why he tells Thor he’s proud of him. Thor follows his example, saves them the embarrassment of being responsible for genocide, and the resources it takes to wage war. Thor’s obedience doesn’t last, and neither does Odin’s pride. Thor associated his friendliness, heroism, and self-sacrifice with Mjolnir returning to him, and those traits allow him to develop a sense of security in himself. When Odin’s willing to sacrifice Asgardian lives unnecessarily, Thor takes issue with that, and is able to betray Odin. However, Thor attributes developing those traits and discovering that sense of identity to Odin, since it was Odin’s punishment that helped him grow. The obedience he exhibits is a result of idolizing Odin. He’s probably idolized Odin all his life, but now it’s even more pronounced. He submits himself to Odin’s judgement at the end of TDW. He’s expecting for Odin for find him unworthy and take Mjolnir. He still respects Odin’s leadership ability. In fact, he believes the traits he most values in himself are incompatible with great leadership. The perfect image of Odin cracked a little in TDW, but not to a significant degree. When “Odin” praises Thor and allows him to leave with Mjolnir and an implied blessing, Thor’s love for Odin swells. He smiles receiving that praise from his “father”. The crack heals.