#this is hektor coming out

[littlesparklight]

Hektor is forced to linger without being able to go into the Underworld for twelve days.

Is haunting (like Patroklos did to Achilles in coming to him in his dream) always voluntary? And even so, would not Hektor maybe want to reach out, the longer he's stuck lingering, watching the grief around him?

And what if some of the haunting isn't even voluntary?

What if Hektor unintentionally haunted a couple of his family during those twelve days... did people see his spirit in the corridors and rooms? in the stables? Standing by Astyanax's bed?

And then the possible intentional hauntings, born from love and grief and wanting to assure even when there's nothing that can be done;

Does Andromache wake from dreams with her husband's ghostly touch on her cheek, but not having been able to embrace him? How many times? Both Andromache and Hektor yearning, and Hektor keeps reaching out, but they still can't touch.

Grieving parents waking up from dreams where Hektor assures them it doesn't matter if they will be able to bury him or not.

Paris waking up from a dream where Hektor assures him they'll have their talk, but it better not be any time soon (even a ghost can have foolish, useless hopes).

[ditoob]

Odysseus and Achilles are much more similar than I think many people give them credit for. Of course, Achilles is primarily known for his strength while Odysseus is known for his intellect, but many of their primary actions come from the exact same source: love and pride. Achilles goes to war due to his pride, while Odysseus doesn’t want to go to war due to his love for his family. However, it is that deep love that makes the two so alike. When Patroklos dies, Achilles loses everything, and gets rid of all sense of morality due to a suicidal rage that, after avenging his lover, will reunite the two of them. Odysseus goes through something very similar, though to a lesser extent. His “Death of Patroklos” moment occurs the second he sails to Troy. In a way, Odysseus loses everything the moment he leaves Ithaka, and strips himself of his morality in order to return as quickly as he possibly can.

Odysseus’ rage is not all-encompassing or out of control like Achilles’ it is careful, quiet, and hidden just as he is. His rage, however, much like Achilles’ takes over him once he sees the suitors to his wife (I suppose we could say that the suitors would be the “Hektor” in Odysseus’ case). One could say Odysseus’ rage is more of a slow burn while Achilles’ is a flame that quickly burns out its source. Regardless, the two protagonists of Homer's epics are far more similar than they seem.

[wordsmithic]

Hi, sorry if this comes out as a ramble, but your Troy ask made me rewatch the movie (for the umpteenth time, lol), and it brought a lot of old feelings back, both good and bad. The good is how much I adored the Iliad as a child and that's something that still thrives today—since I was a kid, I loved Greek mythology in general, partly because I'm Palestinian/a fellow Eastern Mediterranean, so there is a lot of overlap in our histories, cultures, customs and myths, but the Iliad has always been a favorite. Hektor is my favorite character (and I love him and Andromache), but I also have an immense soft spot for Briseis... and now to get to the bad, rewatching Troy reminded me how a lot of people erase her and her role—and her romance—to Achilles in modern retellings. Now, I'm not going to argue which Achilles ship is the best (especially because that man is a hoe, if we're being honest), I don't care. My problem is the modern erasure of Briseis and the other women in Achilles's life that are romantically entangled with him being reduced to, "He's gay, actually." It reads biphobic if you believe him queer (Patroclus too, who had many named women concubines/slaves), first off, misogynist second. He has a son with his foster "sister," Deidamia, and in some versions even married. In the Iliad especially, Patroclus tells Briseis Achilles will marry her and Achilles himself refers to her as his wife/bride, stopping a whole war when she's taken, and she's even allowed to aid in Patroclus's funeral rights. In some versions, Achilles falls for Polyxena, and tries to make peace with Troy so he can marry her. In the afterlife, Achilles chooses Helen as his wife for some reason. Just... all these women, with complex situations and feelings, are all reduced or erased in modern tellings (and usually for a man/Patroclus), and it makes me want to scream. People use the excuse of, "We don't like the romantic situation they're in," but then claim to "better" it by... erasing or reducing these women and their complex roles and feelings from the story overall? Brieseis, for example, mutually loved Achilles and saw him as a husband... he also killed her first husband and brothers, and you can argue part of her love is out of the need for survival. Yet, she greatly mourned him when he was killed, too. And if exploring this complexity is still not your yum, what about Polyxena? Wouldn't she fit the girlboss archetype of using Achilles' affections to gain his trust, before stabbing him in the back (literally)? Or Deidamia, who's young and left at home, bereft of her husband and son? Heck, try and fill in the gaps how Achilles x Hellen happened, if you must. All these women have an important role in the story, and to Achilles, that could be explored—but people don't because they dismiss what's already there or don't know anything about The Iliad outside modern retellings (mainly The Song of Achilles). So, we get people claiming things that are untrue ("Achilles and Patroclus are exclusively gay!"... in some myths, they're actually relatives/distant cousins, fun fact 😭), and acting like they fixed something by "adding" onto "flat female characters" in a way that reads inauthentic and ignorant to the source material. I get wanting to prop up one's chosen ship, it's just the hypocrisy of promising to be more progressive in one area, but diminishing the progressiveness of another, that kills me. Anyway! Sorry for the rant, I just have a lot of feelings I wanted to share because of the movie and I know you've talked about all this before—it's just something hard to discuss on the internet without people coming down your throat 🥲. Anyhow, justice for Briseis, is my rallying cry, I love her so much, queen made a whole war stop for her and managed to escape from Agamemnon unscathed. Queen who launched a thousand ships to my heart 🫶🏻.

I'm glad you re-watched it! It's a beloved of many Greeks since the movie is quite epic and makes you understand some of the original's glory. Hector, Andromache and Briseis are some of my fave characters in the movie, and it made me also look out for those characters when they appear in the text.

Btw, I would love to know a Palestinian's pov on our shared traditions and myths, how do you guys learn the Greek myths, what parts of them have had perhaps an affect on your heritage and since when, etc! 😍

Briseis' situation is complicated one because many people won't catch the nuance of her living in a patriarchal society as a war captive and thus developing a strange co-dependence to her captors. In addition, the Homeric Epics are a work changed by time in the Greek society, as people added and altered stuff, so many storylines have been affected by other layers of patriarchal societies. So of course the notion of "slave girl mourning her captor's friend" would seem natural, because they probably don't consider a slave woman's POV. Or perhaps she was in the mourning because she had to be there as a woman "belonging" to the Greeks, and the text does not mention it explicitly because it a given for the era. (I don't recall the whole relevant text sorry)

I am not sure if the average author - judging by what is published in the Anglophone market - can handle the complexity of Briseis and other women in the Trojan war. For Briseis one could go for a romance there but they'd have to depict all of her psychosynthesis properly, so it doesn't come off as "Achilles killed my family but he is hot so I love him". To be fair, it is a challenging task but I am still sad that I haven't heard retellings that do this well. Such a retelling done well would be chef's kiss!

As you said, unfortunately, the writers for now focus on the couple Achilles x Patroclus which, ok, let's accept it since it's a ship and there is some background to it (although those guys are most likely 1) cousins 2) very close to each other like brethren in a way westerners misinterpret). I've enjoyed Song of Achilles and I am surely not against such works, but you are right that the female heroines are reduced to flat characters. A fandom full of women manages to be misogynistic - again. We shouldn't be surprised because misogynistic influences are very strong in our societies still, although many don't see it 😕

[cupidlovesastro]

𝚊𝚜𝚝𝚎𝚛𝚘𝚒𝚍𝚜 𝚊𝚗𝚍 𝚝𝚑𝚎𝚒𝚛 𝚖𝚎𝚊𝚗𝚒𝚗𝚐𝚜 #𝟻

bateman(21399)- things that were based on your fate, wanting others to feel your pain, engineer, social sciences

bless(92891)- blessings that could happen to you, ways that you are blessed

hektor(624)- bravery, bullying

induna(176)- fresh starts, high expectations, youthfulness, rejuvenation, fertility, beauty, how you give people their youthful side

hercules(5143)- physical strength, power, ruining things witg your strength, having passion that is out of control

kida(5140)- children, things relating to children

imelda(34919)- odd obsessions, hoarding, being careless, devotion that is distorted, passive aggressiveness

laverna(2103)- stealing, thievery, imposters, property that is stolen

rhiannon(16912)- accusations, running away, disappearances, escaping, fugitives, abduction

mallory(6824)- adventuring, recklessness, traveling, misfortune, being unprepared, de*th

medea(212)- scheming, plotting, love hate relationships, witchcraft, occult things, intense emotions or emotions not felt, dislike for men or male figures, cosmetics

volk(6189)- democracy, what the people want

jokaste(899)- doing a bad thing without meaning to, something that is bad but true, being harmed by someone you love

syrinx(3360)- how you deal with rejection, disappointment, despair, high expectations, finding what you were seeking

tortali(2687)- something coming to light, being outed, being open/ honest about something

sewell(22815)- something taking a bad turn, going downhill

aten(2062)- forcing beliefs on someone, dogmatism

champion(8732)- being a champion, winning, what ways you could win

actor(12238)- being an actor, taking action

echo(60)- being talkative, being gossipy, following someone without realizing, to stand by someone, repeating/ repetition

[suns-out-sleeps-in]

Listen I like Traum(a) actually for all it's flaws and frustrating battles but why was Mandricardo not included? He's part of the paladins story and it would have been great to see Besto Friendo's dynamic with everyone as our buddy.

Mandri being cautious and protective of Ritsuka while Kadoc is around

Mandri comparing his ruling style to Vlad, Konstantinos, and Charlemagne + being an adventurer like Don Quixote which brings out ALL of his insecurities which could lead to a heartwarming moment of comforting him like Atlantis!Mandricardo did for us so they parallel each other (I'm insane I know shut up)

Someone BESIDES Mash actually being worried about us getting kidnapped like to the point of trying to run off and 'storm the castle' as it were.

I know it's brought up but Astolfo and Roland actually seeing for themselves just how different Mandri acts with us. Seeing the meeker, softer Mandricardo than the little terror that they knew and teasing him about his feelings for us making him a better person than he used to be. Very 'old friends telling embarrassing stories to their friends' crush' kinda vibes (delulu I know but let me have my Mandri/Ritsuka moment)

Mandri and Bradamante angst PLZ that would have been so good.

OMG Mandri and Roland Angst! Especially after Roland sacrifices himself and maybe Mandri is given Durendal as a result of the sacrifice? Like Roland magically gifts Mandri Durendal like Hektor did in Atlantis?! And maybe Mandri is all confused like "why do I feel like something was lost to get this?" And UGH NO I WANNA CRY 😭 THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN WAY TOO MUCH

To bring things back up we could have a sweet moment when Vlad stuns himself and telling Mandri to look after '(Y)our Master' before collapsing. I can't tell if it would be sweeter to include himself in 'our' because Ritsuka is still his Master and considers Ritsuka closer to his child than his leader or if he emphasizes the 'your' because he doesn't know if he'll survive Kazliki Bey on his own body so he focuses on Mandri because he KNOWS Mandri will do whatever it takes to keep Ritsuka safe no matter what so that could give Mandri some extra worry and responsibility because of their promise to each other, man to man, pseudo father to pseudo son in law. (Yes I KNOW I'm delulu shush)

Mandri and Charlie having a moment post reveal of knowing they would do anything to help Ritsuka as Ultimate Friend Energy

Extra EXTRA delusional but maybe Mandri being with us when we face Kreimhild and seeing Siegfried have his romantic moment with her and we get Kadoc's disgust with Mandri's VEHEMENT embarrassment because he knows himself well enough that he would do the exact same thing if it was him and Ritsuka and just *dies* thinking of him and Ritsuka being married. (God I feel like @mako-neexu with how insane he makes me feel and that's coming from an edguda shipper but mandriguda is like my 2nd fave)

WAIT NO I'M SO INSANE ABOUT THIS but as Siegfried is rizzing up Kreimhild and explains to Kadoc and Mandri that Ritsuka knew if Kreimhild didn't immediately die Siegfried would fight with her against them, Mandri questions Ritsuka about it and a dialogue option could be 'wouldn't you do the same for the one you loved?' which insta-kills Mandri's sanity because he imagines Ritsuka(either F or M) in wedding attire (new mystic code maybe? hahaha jk not really) ((Habetrot Bride Senses LOCKED IN)) which spirals into domestic married life with Ritsuka until he finally gets triple-killed at the idea of Ritsuka saying 'i love you'.

It would be infinitely funnier if in the ensuing battle if you choose Mandri as a support or use your own that he has a 1 turn stun debuff of Charm until he kicks into gear in the 2nd turn and gets an unremovable strength buff for the rest of the fight. He could even have a little battle banner thing that basically says "Sorry Master! I got distracted! I'm good to go now!" before he dispels the charm stun and gains the strength buff for even more delusional hilarity.

The whole thing with Holmes and Moriarty at the end and maybe seeing Angry Mandri? Like he knows how much Holmes means to Ritsuka and Mash and once Holmes falls he turns to Moriarty and just full on rages at him. Oh I'd cry but it'd be so cathartic and good.

Also I know Moriarty is basically dying at the point but having someone besides Mash as a servant when we are at the bunker and basically just silently (or not 🤭) seething at Moriarty. Like literally a 'one wrong move and I kill you' kinda Angry Mandri idk if that's too ooc but God I would kill for that.

Funny thing is I started writing this as a confession to @grandorderconfessions before realizing I had too many thoughts about it so it's become it's own post. Like I said at the beginning I still enjoyed Traum for what it is but it did confuse me why it was focused on the paladins but Mandricardo was only briefly mentioned by Roland and Astolfo during the gala scene.

Just one girl's bonkers delusions of potential romance between the last hope for humanity and a sopping wet cat of a servant (affectionate).

[menelaiad]

maybe an odd question maybe one you've answered before, but are agamemnon and menelaus favoured by any gods during the war? i can't remember the gods ever stepping in to help or protect either of them but it has Been A While . and if so i just think it's neat

agamemnon isn't supported by any gods, i think. and he doesn't have any epithets that link him to the gods either. if anything, zeus fucks with him and sends him a nightmare/false vision think about the trojans. and then zeus tells hektor to leave agamemnon alone when he's going BUCKWILD in book 11. so it's kinda impressive that he does what he does and survives the war ,,,, when none of the gods give a shit about him. I MEAN, he has the gods who are like .... preferring the greeks over the trojans, but he doesn't have any personal divine help.

menelaus has two divine related epithets. he is 'beloved by ares' and 'cherished by zeus'. i THINK the zeus one comes from the fact that he is zeus' son-in-law ... and nothing else LMAO. the ares one is interesting! you can say that he was in ares' sight because menelaus was 'responsible' for the trojan war. but then like. at troy. menelaus isn't .... bloodthirsty. he's not feral or like actively going wild in the war. so ares abandons him for the trojans. so that can explain that. IN REGARDS TO OTHERS, athena has a moment were she helps out menelaus. the arrow from pandarus is probably gonna kill menelaus but she bats it away from him and it only gets his thigh. it's interesting that it's described akin to a mother batting a fly away from her child. so, menelaus has this maternal kinda angle to his protection which i can go FERAL about. (u can also argue that menelaus is supported by hera, and she's like,,,,,,,,,,,, a mother figure. BUT he is only a means to an end to her as she just wants troy to fall ... AGAIN i can go INSANE).

[therainbowwillow]

EPIC / Odyssey / Aeneid crossover plot that has been bouncing around in my head for like a week:

So I really want an AU crossover of the Odyssey (with Epic canon mixed in) and the Aeneid in which Aeneas actually catches up to Odysseus by mistake rather than just trailing him endlessly as they both wander around the Aegean and they’re forced to get along to escape some Peril™️.

The way I’ve currently got this mapped out is that Odysseus fails to throw baby Astyanax off the walls of Troy despite the prophecy that he’ll grow up to (apparently…) ruin Odysseus’s life (AU-ing Epic canon). Somehow, they both manage to survive up through arriving on Calypso’s island (except I cannot conceive of a way in which the only person who survives out of Odysseus’s entire capable, adult crew is a three-year-old, so I guess this is also a Some People Live AU.) Anyway, they get there, Calypso’s got them trapped, it’s been a number of years, maybe there’s some horny crew member who spares Odysseus from Calypso’s advances by having *consensual* relations with her, etc.

Meanwhile, Aeneas has also been wandering around (in search of future-Rome) but as in the Aeneid, he’s taking forever because the gods are kind of unclear with their initial instructions (and also he keeps getting distracted… cough cough Dido). Hera, still needlessly furious with Aeneas for the crime of being Trojan, gets him blown off course again, except this time, he and his whole fleet wind up on Calypso’s island, the “no one leaves, no one comes” rule only broken because it was divine intervention that got him there in the first place. Initially, he’s ready to throw hands with Odysseus (and what remains of his crew), but Astyanax who is like 9 or 10 by this point and is aware of his Trojan heritage (the gods *did* say they’d make it known either way—Odysseus tells him to spare him the pain) figures out what’s going on and gets them to stand down, mostly just because all the Trojan survivors are so stunned that he’s still alive, apparently being treated well, and really does look a whole lot like Hektor that they give up on fighting for a moment. Odysseus and Aeneas forget the spears and have a brief yelling match in which Odysseus is accused of kidnapping and defends himself by begrudgingly telling Aeneas about the prophecy, which earns him some respect from the Trojans. It takes courage (and maybe some stupidity) to take the risk Odysseus is taking.

Aeneas (& crew) being stuck in the island with Odysseus (& crew) doesn’t really make anything all that much better for anyone because they’re still very much stuck on an island. Astyanax befriends Aeneas’s son Iulius (who is a few years older than he is) and learns a little more about Troy and his own biological parents. Calypso is very pleased that she has more boy toys than ever (and also hot women I guess because Aeneas’ crew isn’t all male—they’ve also canonically got female Trojan refugees with them, although a bunch of the ladies do decide to stay behind on an earlier stop on the journey).

Athena still hasn’t made contact with Odysseus for like 9 years, but has started helping Telemachus ward off the suitors. I think I’d probably give Telemachus a mix of his Epic & Odyssey characterizations: he’s very concerned about protecting his mom but also kind of weird & angsty about his dad, who he sort of believes is dead but can’t quite commit to that belief. Athena starts feeling kind of bad about not doing anything to bring Odysseus home (because even if he is a hubristic dumbass sometimes, Telemachus deserves to get to know his dad!)

Meanwhile, Aeneas’s divine patron (and mother) Aphrodite does *not* suddenly abandon him (even though their relationship is consistently kind of weird). She shows up, learns that her son (and also a whole bunch of Greeks??) are stuck on an island, and discovers that Calypso is very resistant to the idea of letting them go. While she tries to work out a way to get her kid out of Calypso’s clutches, she also starts to feel a little bad for Odysseus who may be the lying bastard who sacked Troy but is also stunningly loyal to his loved ones and as the goddess of love, she’s gotta respect that.

And so begins the unexpected friendship (maybe more like business partnership…) of the century! Aphrodite and Athena (who finally goes to check on her ex-friend) take inspiration from their favorite mortals and strike up a truce. With some shenanigans (specifics unclear), they manage to get everybody off the island.

Aeneas agrees to follow Odysseus to Ithaca because his fleet will need to restock to continue their wandering towards future-Rome (and also because even though Odysseus is the lying bastard who sacked Troy AND got Aeneas’s wife killed, he’s been good to Astyanax and having known the kid’s biological father personally, Aeneas thinks Hektor would want him to repay the good deed somehow.

There are probably some shenanigans in here about the fact that now that they’re traveling together, they have to deal with the wrath of Poseidon (incurred by Odysseus) AND the wrath of Hera (“incurred” by Aeneas) on their way to Ithaca. They make it (perhaps down a few more crew members) after making a brief stop in Phaiakia.

There’s no disguising the landing an entire fleet of ships on Ithaca, so while Odysseus would’ve liked to have some tact while dealing with the suitors (who Athena and probably also Aphrodite have informed him of), there isn’t much hope of attempting to sneak around… it’s just all out war.

I’m not entirely sure what I’d do about the (Epic canon) Astyanax prophecy, but here’s what I’ve got: Astyanax (and Iulius?) are left behind on the ships for their own safety while the suitors are slaughtered but manage to sneak off to try to help. Neither one of them is familiar with the palace, so Astyanax is carrying a torch to navigate the halls (in which Odysseus has extinguished all the existing torches to catch the suitors by surprise). They only manage to get inside and get their bearings by the very end of the fight. They’re attacked by the final remaining suitor, some guy who managed to escape the initial attack. Terrified and furious, Astyanax drops his torch and draws a sword he stole from the ship. He manages to kill the bastard using the fighting skills Odysseus taught him in their mostly for fun ‘family bonding activity’ sparring matches while they were stuck on the island. The dropped torch starts a fire which burns up a small portion of the throne room—including the throne itself—before one of the adult combatants swoops in to put it out.

So… “[Astyanax] will grow from a boy to an avenger” is true because he avenges his adoptive father’s honor by killing one of the suitors (the prophecy never says *who* he has to avenge). He’s “fumed by rage” at what he’s overheard of Odysseus talking about the suitors. He burns Odysseus’ house and throne, albeit by accident. And the biggest stretch… leaves Odysseus with no one left to save because by killing the final suitor, he takes the final action toward “saving” Penelope and Telemachus before Odysseus can. I’m not sure what to do with the saying goodbye to Penelope and Telemachus bit though. Perhaps in this AU, refusing to obey the gods’ order to kill Astyanax is at least partially behind Odysseus winding up stuck at sea for ten years so he has to “say goodbye” to them—at least for a while—“because of” Astyanax? Odysseus still gets to choose whose blood is on his hands: the suitors’. (If anybody has better ideas for thwarting the prophecy… do tell.)

(Also! I think Tiresias would rehash the Astyanax prophecy to Odysseus in equally vague terms. Something about the palace on fire and a boy come to fulfill his gods-given fate? I see your palace, flickering with flames…)

Anyway, Odysseus & family get their happily ever after (except Odysseus has a lot more explaining to do—gotta explain to his wife how he picked up an extra son along the way while remaining loyal and why half the survivors of the opposing force from the war that separated them in the first place are now staying in their home for a few days. And why the throne room is in desperate need of repair due to fire damage…)

Aeneas & crew eventually find future-Rome (and since they’ve struck up a semi-friendship with war goddess Athena, the war against Turnus & gang winds up being a lot easier. Maybe Pallas gets to not die tragically and Aeneas actually manages to fulfill the “sparing the conquered” bit of Roman Mission as it was laid out to him in the underworld by not murdering the defeated Turnus in cold blood!)

There you go, Homer and Vergil (and Jorge). Now (almost) everybody gets to be happy! Yay!

[sophsicle]

i've come here to talk to you about my undying love for hektor because i think you would both appreciate and understand me....

like he is so special and so charming and so so so "gentle" in the midst of so many terrible things. obviously he is a killer but he has such humanity, like im reading multiple translations of the iliad for my grad class and i cant believe how that kindness is carried over in so many of the translations they don't leave it out, ever

AND ANDROMACHE! when she says "you've been a father to me and my mother and my brother because they all have been killed" i FEEL SO BROKEN

Yeah I am very obsessed with Hector I am actually obsessed in general with the way that the iliad does not follow the narrative structure that the western novel later develops, i would argue that is at least partially due to the influence of Christianity and the desire to have cut and dry "good" and "bad" characters

the Trojans are not the bad guys in the iliad, even tho technically it is being written from the greek perspective, arguably Agamemnon is the bad guy, or at least the least likeable character, imo, so it is not a case of good guys v. bad guys.

and achilles is our hero, and patroclus is his humanity, and is beloved by everyone, and Hector. Hector who is not a bad guy. Hector who is a very good man, actually. very loyal, decent, honourable, hector kills him. which is like. ugh. brutal. and patroclus is achillles' everything. and he is torn apart by grief and so are you, as the reader, and you want revenge but like, on who? on who? because hector is not a bad guy. he was not even in the wrong for killing patroclus (whomst he thought was achilles) but he did kill him. he did. and that hurts.

so you get the climatic fight scene. but that fight scene is not between the good guy and the bad guy like we're used to seeing today. it is between a very good guy. and a very heart broken guy. and you feel for them both. you understand them both. you root for them both.

and so achilles kills hector. and it isn't really satisfying. or heroic. it is shameful actually. and it doesn't make him feel any better. and it doesn't bring patroclus back.

in fact the real peace, comes not from the battle, from the killing, but from Priam. Hector's father. who comes to Achilles, alone, and unarmed and begs for his son. and the two bond over their shared grief.

it is so human, right? like, there are no heroes or villains in this story. there are just people, fighting a war, not a war for good or evil, just a war for land. and power. and hearts are broken and lives are ruined and there is no real purpose.

but the story bleeds.

it bleeds with the love of sons. and fathers. and brothers. and lovers. and it just-

i love that hector is such a likeable guy, because it would be so much less beautiful a story if he wasn't. it would be too easy and too simple.

[littlesparklight]

The year Hektor, as well as Paris, got married.

(I, too, wanted to do a lineup of the main Trojan royal family/the children of Priam and Hecuba. So, here it is! Nineteen sons as the Iliad decreed, plus a handful of daughters. Everyone's loosely grouped (or not) according to in which set of multiples they were born. Lore and secrets under the cut.)

I've tried to only use names that either explicitly are called offspring of Priam and Hecuba, or implicitly so by the Iliad saying they're legitimate. The only exception being Chromios and Echemmon, of whom the Iliad doesn't say either way and who in later sources are named as sons of some mother(s) not Hecuba. I've ignored this, prioritising the Iliad's non-specificity. Partly because I'd long since decided they were sons of Priam and Hecuba when I realized that other sources made them not so. Of course, the Iliad doesn't name enough sons, so the rest come (mostly, exception Idaios) from Hyginus' list via cross-referencing with the Bibliotheke, to assure I picked names from the former the latter didn't say were illegitimate.

Everybody's ages and the timeline used does rely on ~5 extra years between Paris coming back with Helen and the Achaeans landing at Troy.

Ilione and Laodike are both already married by this point. I don't think we actually know how Bronze Age proto-Thracians were dressed, so I just tried to deck her out in something a little different from the rest.

Paris gets a white leopard pelt to make it a little more ~extra. The half-wrap sort of thing he's wearing about the hips technically come from a few hundred years later, I think (if I remember correctly), from the neo-Hittite era, but shh.

Eurydike is Aeneas' wife in the Kypria (so, she's equivalent to Kreusa), and though we don't know whether this Eurydike was a daughter of Priam and Hecuba, but I'm going with that she was (as Creusa was made so as well).

I've gone back and forth on how old Polyxena is supposed to be, and initially she has been a twin with Polydoros (mostly because I liked the matching names), but for my latest iteration I went with making her part of another mortal-demigod twin pair with Troilos as often happens, because of how her story intersects with both Troilos and Achilles. You can really see who Troilos' father is. :)

The number of daughters in addition to the Iliad-given nineteen sons have been decided by going by who has been given as Priam and Hecuba's daughter in some source, and then adding on Eurydike to that list.

I do have an alternate arrangement for ages/births (basically to be used in versions of fics that use the funeral games as background for how Paris gets reunified with the rest (when he's 16 instead), which is one where Kassandra would be old enough to have been cursed by Apollo right before Paris comes back, though this one gives the ages for the last year of the war: Hektor, 40 Ilione, Laodike, Antiphos, 38 Helenos and Kassandra, 36.5 Paris, 35 Deiphobos [Kreusa/Eurydike, Pammon and Polites], 34.5 This would also work out to have Deiphobos younger than Helenos, as some versions note as he is a strike against him in his fight over Helen with Helenos, who is said to be older.

[deathlessathanasia]

"When we next see Hektor in the middle of the book, it is alongside Apollo who “found Hektor, the glorious son of god-fearing Priam / seated–he was no longer stretched out, but he was regaining his spirit again / he recognized the companions around him, and his gasping and sweating / was relenting, since the mind of aegis-bearing Zeus was awakening him” (15.239-242).

The phrase “the mind [noos] of Zeus” does not occur frequently in Homer, but it seems to indicate either a part of Zeus’ general plan or his intention in the moment. Consider 16.103 where the narrative says that Ajax did not remain because “the mind of Zeus and the proud Trojans hurling [weapons] over came him” (16.103) or later in book 16 when the narrator laments Patroklos ignoring Achilles’ warnings and provides the proverbial sounding judgment “the mind of Zeus is always stronger than men” (688), a phrase repeated by Hektor when speaking to Glaukos in book 17 (176). Indeed, it appears that these references do seem to correlate to moments where the overall plan of Zeus is being enforced.

One of the most important parts of book 15 comes after Zeus awakens and summons Hera. As he upbraids her, he outlines the plot for the rest of the epic. Homer, Iliad 15. 63-68 “[The Greeks] will fall among the many-benched ships of Peleian Achilles, after they flee there. He will send out his friend Patroklos. Shining Hektor will kill him with a spear In ground of Troy after he has killed many other strong men Among them will be my own son, glorious Sarpedon. In a rage over him, glorious Achilles will kill Hektor.”

Some Alexandrian editors marked this passage as questionable (athetizing up to 20 lines of this speech). “because [the poet] needlessly repeats about the events that will immediately proceed and the verses inside are simplistic in their composition” (Schol. A ad 15.56a). Within the scholia as well, however, is the proposal that this device is “foreshadowing” (προανακεφαλαίωσις) as when “Odysseus outlines to Telemachus the murder of the suitors”. The primary point here is that there is an overlap between Zeus’ function as a divine figure and his control over narrative devices. In the Iliad his plan is one of the most important ‘maps’ for the epic’s plot. One way to think of his speech in book 15 is as a corrective measure, pulling things back into line and pointing them back on course…. But we also can’t lose sight of the numinous impact of his speech. Zeus’ noos–his thought about the plot–is so potent that merely by articulating the future, he sets it into action. Hektor does not need healing because as soon as Zeus has articulated what will happen next, Hektor becomes what he needs to be to serve Zeus’ plan. It is almost as if the world itself at this moment of the Iliad is a story unfolding in Zeus’ mind, a dream corrected or altered upon waking."

- The Powerful Mind of Zeus. Revitalizing Hektor and the Iliad's Plot by Joel Christensen

[tngmpersonal]

Bottom-Tier major villains of various video game franchises

Super Mario: In terms of platformers, Wart. In terms of RPGs, King Olly. In the series as a whole, one of the villains from the sports spin-offs for the Switch. Donkey Kong: Ghastly King. Tiki Tong and Lord Fredrik might just be recycled ideas, but at least they have story presence. Ghastly King comes from a game with no plot or build-up. Legend of Zelda: Onox from Oracle of Seasons. Doesn't get much screentime as his contemporary Veran. And at the end of the day, he's just a hired gun for Twinrova. Metroid: MB from Other M. Either that or Master Brain from Federation Force. Kirby: Dark Nebula from Squeak Squad. Which is even more embarrassing when it possessing Daroach was a harder fight than its true form. Star Fox: Anglar Emperor from Command. General Scales at least had story and presentation down, but no actual boss fight because Rare was rushed to finish the game. Pokémon: Rocket Executive Archer from the Johto games in terms of mainline RPGs. He's only met at the very end of the Team Rocket subplot. As for the multiple spin-off titles, who knows? Fire Emblem: Garon from Fates because I keep hearing those two games were rushed. Njörðr from Heroes could contest him since he remains unfought in his Book. Kid Icarus: Orcos from Of Myths and Monsters. By virtue of not appearing in Uprising to get fleshed out. Wario: Golden Diva from Land 4, since she's never encountered outside of her boss fight. Demon Head from Virtual Boy at least is forced to guide Wario in an amusing hard mode ending. Street Fighter: Holy heck, did Street Fighter V's awful story did Necalli dirty. M. Bison and F.A.N.G insisted on controlling the plot. Crash Bandicoot: The Viscount from Boom Bang. Willie Wumpacheeks from Tag Team Racing at least had an argument if the narrative meant anything. Spyro the Dragon: If it's just the Classic series, Gnasty Gnorc in the original game. If the Skylanders games are included, probably Hektore from the first 3DS game. Jak & Daxter: Gol and Maia Acheron from The Precursor Legacy. Sonic the Hedgehog: Witchcart or Great Battle Kukku XV, both are Classic-era villains of the Tails spin-offs. As for Dreamcast or Modern-eras, who knows?

[liestookmydoubts]

II. Bedside conversations.

Menelaus could feel it as they returned to the Achaean camp; their hopeful, fervoured eyes. Their hateful, censorious gazes. The night, which seemed to slowly fade away, had plunged into the waves, from which the next dawn emerged from the same waters. But there was her gaze, too, Helen's, and it was like a dagger sinking in between his ribs. She didn't blame him for the destruction that had been caused, and he didn't blame her for the many sleepless nights. He could tell she wanted to return the bright and blinding smiles, but her own were muted and controlled in comparison. He'd tried to soothe her, kissing the tension in her brows as she ached. As they both ached, it seemed.

He couldn't ease the frown off her face as the wretched son of Achilles rampaged the lands that had so readily defended her honor. There was no reasoning with that kid, lest one was willing to risk a spear through the narrow space between their ribs- and so his Helen could only watch as the role of concubine was thrust upon the still grieving wife of Hektor.

Neoptolemus was little more than a weapon, one refined and sharpened to infinitesimal precision; a sword bred for war. He sought only one thing; revenge. And yet- he didn't even seem to know what it was he ought to avenge; he hadn't known his father, the young prodigy that had willingly joined this entire mess of a war. All he had were the often exaggerated stories the men passed around; perhaps his mother had shared some of her own experiences, but somehow Menelaus had a hard time imagining Deidameia had alot of good to say about Achilles. Cleaving Achilles. The bitter taste abandonment left on your tongue wasn't so easily washed away with honeyed words- Menelaus would know, he mused

Back in Sparta these thoughts persisted, even as a flash of curly blond entering his chambers caught his eye. A familiar warmth embraced him from behind, and silent tears wet the fabric of his chiton and clung to his shoulders.

More and more often she'd come to him crying. When prompted for a reason, she merely shook her head and kissed him- it was a much too effective distraction for Menelaus to bother trying to raise the question again. Not when his tongue counted those faint few freckles on her thighs that usually showed more in the summer, and not when the calloused pads of his fingers trace over each vertebrae of Helen her spine as if trying to count them. And especially not when his mind starts to drift, and suddenly the plush skin of her thigh has a scar wrapping around-

Even when they returned to Sparta, she would come to his room with tears streaming down her beautiful face.

Until one night, about 3 months since their return, as they lay in silence on his bed, merely gazing at eachother, does she finally speak.

"Menelaus," she says,

"Darling," he automatically replies.

And for a moment, whatever it is she has to say seems too much for her to bear- and her eyelashes flutter gently. She leans in to kiss him, but this time Menelaus ushers her back. "My love," he calls out once more, admittedly firmer. He knows Helen's weaknesses, and the tricks she deploys to cover for them. He won't let her hold back this time. "If there's something you must say, then please just say it. I fought a war for you- won't you, if even just this once, humor me?"

Something within his words made it so her eyebrows met just a little closer on her forehead. Her hand touches upon his collarbone, searching. "You have a soft heart," Her hand is placed on the left side of his chest, as if to touch this softness with her own hands. He wondered if she could feel the way it pounded as if trying to break out from his ribcage- "I don't know what you mean."

"You don't have to."

Menelaus had taken the opportunity to kiss her the way he had been itching to. It wasn't the most eloquent response, but it was the one he decided upon. "I want to," he spoke into her open mouth, "I want to understand you, Helen."

And moreso, he wants to understand why his thoughts keep drifting to a rugged land, too cramped for driving horses though it is hardly poor, under Mount Neion's windblown robe of leaves.

"And what would you do with understanding?" Helen asked, her voice a soft murmur, tinged with something Menelaus could not quite place. Was it resignation? Hope? Helen cupped his face in her hands, her touch so light it could have been the wind. For a moment, she was still, her fingers tracing the hollow of his throat. Then she closed her eyes, as if summoning courage. “Do you?” she asked softly. “Do you truly want to understand me, Menelaus? Or are you hoping to bury the war beneath layers of affection and pretend we can be as we once were?”

Her words were not an accusation, but a plea—a raw, unfiltered truth that caught him off guard. Menelaus exhaled deeply, his thumb brushing away a tear that escaped down her cheek. “I fought a war for you,” he repeated, “but I never expected to come out of it unscarred—inside or out. I don’t want to bury anything, Helen. I just want us to find peace.”

Helen leaned her forehead against his, golden hair spilling over his shoulders. “Peace,” she echoed, as if testing the word’s weight on her tongue. “You make it sound so simple.”

“It’s not,” Menelaus admitted. “But nothing worth having ever is.”

[sfaira]

A wonderful commission by @sardolutra to draw a scene from out rp story! Klara and Hektor are not very moved by accusations coming at them, mostly the one about him marrying her only for her money.

[menelaiad]

can I prompt you to talk about Menelaus sparing Helen I'm just like :chinhands: about everything u say about the house of atreus

hey, if you're willing to listen, i'm more than happy to talk - thank you!

so. again. we got Big Three versions.

menelaus says 'guys it's chill i'll kill her at home. let's all cool our jets' (this is the version in euripides)

menelaus goes to kill her himself. helen shows her boobs. menelaus suddenly very chill (this is also implied by euripides)

menelaus gets men to kill her. helen shows her boobs. men suddenly very chill (stesichorus)

CAN YOU GUESS WHICH TWO I DESPISE? no. fr. the last two (the boob two) are far too dependent on helen being vain. and helen .... almost not feeling any guilt or shame from what's happened. and we know that's not true from the iliad. these two, to me, are classic. THIS IS JUST HOW HOT HELEN WAS propaganda. cause yknow. ur a greek/roman/ancient dude and you hear that helen of sparta showed you her boobs like 'damn bro i wouldn't kill her either ahahahaha pass the wine, maximus'.

but helen was never vain. she was never arrogant. she was confident and self-assured. but it's pretty much everyone AROUND helen that comments on her beauty and stuff. she never really does herself? which is another fascinating element of her character tbh. so her doing THIS as a means to be spared? doesn't suit me. do i think helen wanted to die/was willing to die? no. but i think she would have gone about pleading for her life a different way, y'know? also i hate the whole 'her tits got her into this mess they'll get her out of it' like shut UP. menelaus is not 12. he's fucking 60 odd at this point. he is tired. he is wounded. he is so beyond mentally well. give him some respect. he wouldn't have been blind sided by this.

but i don't think menelaus EVER planned to kill her. i can accept euripudes' version cause i think there would have been a lot of greek men that would have wanted to see helen dead. it makes sense yknow? they dont see the full narrative. the big picture. as far as they're concerned helen ran away. loads of people died. and now she's gonna get away with it. they're not narrative aware enough to see all the cogs of fate and the gods and all this. so i can respect that some greeks would have wanted her to suffer and menelaus would have risked a fuckin riot if he outright said 'nah lads she's fine lets crack on' so the whole 'wait til we get home' narrative is a good way for him to save time. to buy him and helen some time to come up with a plan, a story. to hear each other out. to work through stuff. they don't get back to sparta for like. 10 more years. they can EASILY have come up with some reason why she's not been killed yet. or why he's not gonna go through with it/why it's all worked out.

in regards to menelaus never wanting to kill her, i believe that because of how menelaus behaves in the iliad. menelaus is constantly lamenting the deaths of the greeks. the needless death and suffering. how these men are working and sacrificing to get helen back. to bring her HOME. what would killing her do? another senseless death. all the sacrifice for naught because menelaus doesnt get his wife back. he goes back to sparta alone. as if he never even went to fucking troy and tried to get her back?????

and also because menelaus loves her. despite everything he loves her and he never stopped. it's why i really like his portrayal in IOA even if he is a giant ass clown. he's a man desperate to get his wife back. and he's under the impression they're just gonna go to troy and get her back. simple as. two months tops. he's frantic and desperate and willing to try anything to get her back (yo bro kill ur daughter for me kthx). and i don't think that desire to get her back changes. menelaus grows more subdued and quiet. and has less fire. but he's still trying. he goes toe to toe with paris, is willing to take on hektor. menelaus is very much: 'i am dying at troy or i am leaving with my wife' and how is that not love? it's literally. he is going to get her back or die trying.

(also idk how much people value to fall of troy texts that are around but like. menelaus kills deiphobus in those. when dei is with helen. the man is insane in those moments he could easily have took helen out too in his madness. but he doesn't. also also. when he's in the horse and he hears helen, he's said to 'groan' when he remembers her and given the context of the other men weeping and stuff. this is like. a groan of pain. hearing helen's voice after so long and remembering her. HURTS him. he's missed her so much.)

menelaus and helen loved each other. you see it in odyssey 4. the healing they must have gone through in those 10 years. is so admirable and powerful. and they did it because they wanted to. because they were gonna see this out. they were gonna make this work. and even zeus acknowledges it. because he lets menelaus into elysium just to be with helen (his own DAUGHTER) for eternity. even though menelaus has LITERALLY no elysium qualities. not even zeus cant bear to separate these two.

they're just so fucking powerful.

[evilgabe29]

chapter 1 of working title

A boy ran through the streets of Artagan. His grey coat flapping in the wind a little too fast as if the air just wasn't ready for him yet and scrambled to keep up. Once he got to his destination he just barely stopped himself from planting his pace into the solid brick wall of the job centre. He entered the small building a bit winded.

The centre wasn't big, no building in Artagan was. Some felt that it made the place feel suffocating. Although those people got jobs on only their tenth visit or less, most took comfort in the cramped space. This was the boy’s hundredth or so visit to the centre despite people supposedly being in need of any Kenek they could get, bloody liars.

The boy walked over to the ticket dispenser and removed the small piece of paper from the slot, which was immediately replaced with another one. The ticket had the number one written on it meaning he got here first this time, which also meant he gets first pick on any jobs that get brought in. The boy then sat down in the lone foldable chair in the middle of the room, for a new visitor it would look out of place as if it was fulfilling a quota for having seating in public areas, but long time visitors found it as with most things exactly where it needs to be. 

The boy woke up to a voice, and a sharp pain to his head.

“Oi, Vik wake up i can't have you holding up the line” said the voice that he’d determined to belong to Hektor the caretaker of this job centre, he was a relatively big man, that's relative to Vik though who was only eleven half-feet tall and skinnier than a keno wire, Hektor on the other hand was approximately 13 half-feet by Vik’s approximation with enough mussel to make a heaver go bankrupt trying to lift him. 

“Owww” Vik groaned standing up “do ya really have to hit me?” 

“You got the first ticket, no one else can go until you do dumbass, there might actually be something for you this time,” Hektor said, dragging him to the terminal. Hektor was not only the caretaker of the centre he also delivered new jobs to the terminal every week.

Vik perked up at his words, would today be the day he actually got a job? Of course he didn't let himself get too hopeful but he was still very excited.

After plopping him down in front of the job terminal Hektor turned it on, making all the rotating letter plates whir to life, at this point Vik finally took stock of his surroundings and all the people that were standing in line. Intellectually he knew the reason, there had been a record number of ships that arrived to port this week and ships tended to hire personnel when they came to port, he still jumped at the sheer amount of people present.

The terminal made a final loud Click indicating that it was finished setting up, Vik turned to it and inserted his ticket into the terminal, it then did some more whirring as it accepted the small paper, then it clicked once again signifying that it was done with its operations and was ready for use.

Vik gingerly put his magenta tipped fingers on the keyboard, with each keypress making the terminal jump to life. he pressed the enter key with a finality that made him worry if he might have accidentally broken it, but the command he put in to filter the jobs by ones that were looking for dashers went through and he took a relieved sigh and took a step back to looking at all the rotating letters plates, once they stopped his heart did too, after his hundred visits, almost a year coming here once a week, finally, finally something popped up.

-~very cool line break, this is still the same chapter just a bit latter~-

Vik walked to the port, canvas bag slung across his shoulder, right hand resting on his Ring Spike tied to his belt and the left clutching the job printout with all his strength as if it was gonna run away from him. He didn't even want to dash with the fear of losing the paper. Vik was still half convinced that he would be turned away, maybe it was a mistake, maybe they meant to look for a dodger and wrote dasher instead but the other half of his brain noted that he did have the paper, there was proof that he accepted the job and even if they didn't need a dasher most ships found the increased speed they provide to be very useful.

Vik had intended to have one last look at his home, he did feel a fondness for the slum like city Artagan had become in the last hundred years, even if he also resented it for taking his parents from him. He reasoned that the government and companies of a city isn't necessarily the city itself but logic and reason could only do so much.

It wasn't long before he reached the port he entered, anxious that guards would appear out of nowhere and arrest him but none did, he walked over to landing pad twenty-seven which was indicated on the print out.

Two men stood on the landing pad, one clad in a yellow shirt under a thick fake leather coat and leaning his back on the railing, while the other one had on a blue dress shirt that was too clean to be from any of the slums. He stood straight backed with his hands clasped behind him. They seemed to be looking out for people. Vik reflexively took his hand off of his Ring Spike and hid it under his coat. He wasn't supposed to have one, normal people weren't supposed to have one. But he'd swiped one off a visiting ring scout intending on selling it since it was heavy enough to be worth a chunk or two but then he'd realised it was made of Keno from Armanis and worth way more to him as a battery then just some spare change.

Vik walked up to the two men incredibly nervous, possibly the most nervous he'd ever been. Vik proffered the paper to the two men though as he'd expected the blue clad man took it with gloved hands. He unfolded the crumpled piece of paper that he’d unconsciously been gripping as if his life depended on it. The man visibly relaxed as he started reading through the paper. The yellow clad man though he looked at Vik’s fingers, his eyes sparkled as he saw the deep colour of the Athos stains on them. his lips curved up slightly at the corners.

“Okay so you're the dasher eh?” Vik snapped to attention at the sound of blue shirt’s voice. It was quite relaxed, not at all how he'd expected someone who looked like he'd had a drain pipe shoved up his ass to sound.

“YES!..uhh yes that's me,yes,” Vik responded still a bit nervous

“a bit jumpy ain't aren't they Lan?” yellow shirt said nugging blue, his voice was gruffer than blue’s but was equally more energetic

“Hektor mentioned that there haven't been many requests for dashers going through his circles. So they probably think were gonna scam them or something” he muttered reading through the print out 

Once he was done he folded it up as neatly as he could given its state and put it in the back pocket of his dress pants 

“Alright everything looks to be in order Vik, Nell mind showing the new kid around? we’re still waiting on a heaver so get them all set up while i wait.”

“Sure, come with me shortstuff” yellow shirt turning to the scout ship behind him and gesturing for Vik to follow him, Nell if he wasn't mistaken. 

Vik hesitated at first but they seemed pretty trustworthy and he wasn't likely to get another opportunity like this any time soon. so he followed Nell.

-~cool lil line break just because i want to, what are you gonna do? Sue me?~-

The ship wasn't pretty well at least it wasn't in the conventional sense it had very clearly seen better days there were several patches of metal that had been welded or bolted on often both. not only that but various pieces of the ship were almost certainly mismatched. despite this or maybe because of it Vik absolutely adored the ship. 

“We call her Theo after one of the very very old myths” Nell said, running his gloved fingers through his light brown hair. 

“I haven't heard of any myths like that, what’s it about?” Vik asked, genuinely curious.

“No idea.”Nell announced proudly.

“What? Why would you name it after something you don't even know about?”

“Oh I don't know anything about it but my brother over there could give you a four and a half hour lecture on the name alone” Nell said gesturing with his thumb towards Lan “multiply it ten-fold if he ends up going on about philosophy, which he usually does”

They finally got to the ship’s entrance, it was a white rectangular metal door with four rectangular indentations like something you’d find in a house. Trials it probably was an interior door, how did all the air not escape the moment they took off?

“How do you have that as the door to your ship?” Vik said with no small measure of awe, it fit the aesthetic of the ship so well after all, even if he had no idea how it functioned they clearly had made it here so it must work somehow.

Nell chuckled as he turned the knob and swung open the door, revealing an oddly open interior, of course the ship was big on the outside but he had expected the small cramped quarters of military ships, although those also tended to use non Athos driven forms of propulsion and tended to have had much bigger crews.

Vik entered the craft stepping over the rubber lining where the door had been, this must be how they kept air from escaping, there was no way that was safe.

The ship’s interior had five rooms, four he assumed were for crew and then the last must be for the washroom? But where would the engine go? Then he saw it, a giant hunk of Keno glowing a beautiful yellow suspended by six metal spokes with a seventh going directly downwards made of a whitish-silvery material. 

“Whoa!” Vik said in awe.

“Yeah, she’s a beauty ain't she.” Nell said, still standing outside “you're free to take any of the quarters that don't have a name on the door yet, once the heaver arrives we’ll explain to you both on how to operate Theo here. In the meantime, get yourself comfortable.” He then left the ship to join his brother out on the landing pad.

Vik opened the first door he saw that didn't have a name on it, and was beholden to the ship’s washroom, it was quite…functional, it contained only a toilet and sink and they both were not the prettiest even by Vik’s odd standards. He closed the door and kept looking; he didn't need to use it right now and his bag was starting to weigh on him a little bit. There were two unmarked doors next to the washroom, he chose the one furthest away from it and opened the metal door. 

The quarters were what some would call cramped but just like the job centre he found it cosy instead, the room contained a simple bed and desk. Vik put his bag on the desk and collapsed onto the bed. When was the last time he’d actually slept on a bed? It was so comfortable. Vik Then passed out.

tagging mutuals:

@ohnoitsslime @caligusabs @beloveddawn-blog

@illarian-rambling @theeccentricraven @kaylinalexanderbooks

and per request:

@mr-orion

[kob131]

Do you think mordred is smart?

Like, i dont think she is some genius or anything but staging a rebellion againts your king while being barely ten years old or so definitely needs some braincells

I think she is smart but is also very impulsive and emotional, maybe?

Oh definitely.

To be fair, the rebellion was only successful in that it killed Arturia. It also got Mordred killed and destroyed Camelot. So it wasn't entirely successful but the fact that Mordred knew how to appeal to people despite how inexperienced she is in general shows that she is smart.

That's not the only time though. In the London chapter (specifically in the chapter they meet Anderson but before they do in it), Mordred makes an insight about the enemies they are fighting and how the summoning of Heroic Spirits was being used. It's to the point both Ritsuka and Mash are surprised and a bit confused by what she is saying. This isn't a one off thing from a subpar chapter- In Enkidu's Interlude, Mordred is capable of recognizing the magic that was used to make Humbra is the same magecraft used to make her. It's safe to say that Mordred is actually well versed in magecraft. Which makes sense since the London chapter gives a subtle implication that she knows it from her time with Morgan.

And this isn't the only time either. In that same interlude, Mordred figures out Enkidu was questioning her because she's a homonculus and tells him that he can't give them answers or meaning, they have to do it themselves. In the finale of Arcade's story, Mordred acknowledges the ephemeral nature of humanity and how destructive they are while reaffirming that they're still worth fighting for. This also coinsides with her talk with Sieg in Apocrypha. With Sieg asking if humanity os worth fight for and Mordred suprisingly tells him that she can't answer that for him.

And in the first Grail Front story, Mordred is asked whether Chaldea should focus on long or short term warfare and she responds with a quick but effective comment about their lack of supply lines and how they should focus on gurellia warfare and targeting weakness (which matches with how Chaldea fights). It's so insightful that everyone is stunned for a moment hearing it for a moment. Everyone being Iskander, Hektor, Altera and Cu. All of whom are experienced warriors and at least three of which (excluding Cu) are noteworthy commanders.

So Mordred isn't just knowledgeable about just magecraft- she's also fairly insightful on philosophy and warfare.

The only indications that we have that Mordred's dumb is that Merlin thinks she's the idiot of the Round Table and Mordred favors brute force in her fights. And Merlin's view isn't fully objective- he doesn't like being around Mordred because she apparently 'smells' like her mother and he could be talking about her impulsiveness. And Mordred's a person who loves to fight; she's basically an adrenaline junkie. No shit she isn't gonna come up with big plans-She wants to fight for the sake of it.

So yes- Mordred is smart. It's just that, again, she's still very young and lacks many things that make a person stable like a healthy family...and self esteem...and any kind of self image.