#this is from the charioteer by mary renault

[feltmagic]

gonna throw up i think

[terpia]

I love this exchange lmao

[renaultphile]

Laurie:

If one were killed, thought Laurie, it wouldn't be good to go twisted up like this in a personal hate. Andrew wouldn't like it if he knew. Andrew would say you should get free of yourself and try to understand. For example: Bunny had gone to a good deal of trouble, which only made sense if one assumed that he was much fonder of Ralph than he seemed. It was true that his methods had not been aristocratic; but he had probably had a very unhappy childhood, or something. Very likely he tormented himself in ways that didn't show, like Sandy.

Andrew:

"I want you to know it is true if he says that when I hit him it wasn't even self-defence."

[telltaleangelina]

“In the dream there had always been a pause in which he had looked up and said, “Next time you go away, I’m going with you”; and Ralph, who hadn’t had a first name in those days, had looked down all the same and answered, “Of course.””

[gayskogul]

Poster boys

[muggleriddle]

This re-reading of the Charioteer is being brutal

[alovelywaytospendanevening]

"Dominated by Compulsion" by Siegfried Mandel (1959)

(Mr. Mandel, on the British faculty of Brooklyn Polytechnic Institute, is a critic of modern fiction from both sides of the Atlantic.)

Readers who became acquainted only recently with Mary Renault through her magnificent historical novel, "The King Must Die," may be surprised to learn that she has seven earlier works of fiction to her credit. Since the Thirties, she has had a large English audience for what might be called "psychological romances" placed in contemporary settings. "Middle Mist," for instance, concerns itself with three young ladies in Cornwall who slowly work out their personal problems; "Return to Night" features a plaintive duet between a small-town lady doctor and a would-be actor; "North Face" allows two strangers to solve their marital difficulties while mountain climbing. In all these novels, Miss Renault masters a lyrical style, meticulous and probing, and introduces us into a world of emotions so delicate and private that the reader often feels like an intruder. Much the same can be said for "The Charioteer," an early Renault novel which pictures the subtleties and crudities that mark a subterranean fraternity of homosexuals in wartime England. Since Miss Renault deliberately refrains from sitting in judgment on her characters and offers no hashed-over sociological explanations, the entire novel hinges on the effective portrayal of Laurie Odell. We must infer that because Laurie never really knew his father, he was disposed to seek a masculine image and ideal among his surroundings. At prep school (which in fiction seems to be a breeding place for taboo relationships) Laurie "was lifted into a kind of exalted dream, part loyalty, part hero-worship, all romance. Half-remembered images moved in it, the tents of Troy, the columns of Athens, David waiting in an olive grove for the sound of Jonathan's bow." In answer to this dream comes Ralph Lanyon, a campus hero, who symbolically offers Laurie a copy of Plato's "Phaedrus," a discourse on love. Later their lives become more firmly entwined when Ralph saves Laurie at Dunkirk. While recovering from a kneecap wound, Laurie meets other members of Ralph's fraternity - chillingly etched by the author. Some of them carry their inclinations to excess, and in distress Laurie turns to a mild-mannered hospital orderly for understanding. This relationship is doomed because Laurie is so completely dominated by compulsion and instinct that he has no choice but to commit himself to Ralph permanently. As if to illustrate Laurie's expressed regrets that he was not born in ancient Athens where bisexuality was permissive, where he could have had a family and a lover, too, Miss Renault wrote a sequel, "The Last of the Wine," a novel set in the times of Plato. Viewed from a historic distance the subject becomes less unpalatable. While working against the inevitable odds of deviational material, the author has a breadth of insight that rarely permits "The Charioteer" to falter. At times Miss Renault echoes the demonic tone of Proust's "Cities of the Plain" and adopts the outspokenness of such related contemporary novels as Charles Jackson's "The Fall of Valor."

Originally published in the September 1959 issue of Mattachine Review magazine.

[novemberhush]

Tag game for people I’d like to get to know better/catch up with.

Thanks for tagging me, @littleblackraincloudofcourse !❤️

Five ships I love - Ooh, let me see…

1) Leo Hölzer x Adam Schürk from Tatort Saarbrücken (because it’s nearly that time of year again! 🎉🎉🎉)

2) Benton Fraser x Ray Vecchio from Due South

3) Sherlock Holmes x John Watson (be it in the original ACD stories, the Granada television version, the BBC version, etc.)

4) Mike Ross x Harvey Specter from Suits

5) Thomas Barrow x Andy Parker from Downton Abbey (you give them the same surnames as Bonnie and Clyde, arguably the most famous criminal couple in history, and then you don’t put them together?? WTF, Julian Fellowes??)

First ship ever - Showing my age here, but I think it’s between David Addison x Maddie Hayes from Moonlighting, Anne Shirley x Gilbert Blythe from the series of Anne of Green Gables television adaptations that were out in the 1980s, and James Dempsey x Harriet ‘Harry’ Makepeace from Dempsey and Makepeace. The shows were all out around roughly the same time so I don’t remember which was first, but there’s not much between any of them, I’d say.

Last song you heard - Sandpaper by Zach Bryan (feat. Bruce Springsteen)

Favourite childhood book - I don’t have any one particular favourite that stands heads and shoulders above the rest, but Red Sky in the Morning by Elizabeth Laird and Children on the Oregon Trail by A. Rutgers Van Der Loeff are two that I remember having an effect on me. I was also a big fan of all the Enid Blyton mystery books, such as the Famous Five and the Secret Seven and the Five Find-Outers and Dog, as well as other children’s mysteries like Alfred Hitchcock and The Three Investigators, The Hardy Boys and, of course, Nancy Drew. I also had a Rupert the Bear annual and a Winnie the Pooh book I enjoyed a great deal, as well a big book of fairytales, complete with illustrations, that I loved.

Currently reading - I’m (slowly!) reading a physical copy of All the Colours of the Dark by Chris Whitaker, which is very good so far (but also very long!), and on the kindle app I’ve finally got around to reading The Charioteer by Mary Renault, which I’m absolutely flying through.

Currently watching - Mainly Grantchester and reruns of Wire in the Blood (no, I don’t have a thing for Robson Green!) and Law and Order: SVU (although I’m pretty much always watching reruns of SVU.).

Currently consuming - I’m making my way through a packet of Fruit Salad Chewits (chewy sweets, for anyone who doesn’t know what Chewits are).

Currently craving - Some more of the absolutely delicious potato gratin I had for dinner on Friday night. It was sooooooooooo good. My mouth’s watering just thinking about it.

I tag @tkandbuck @smowkie @katries @oneawkwardcookie @dontcallpanic @sofancydancy @chaoticfandomgirly @backgroundnoisewithaview @kinkykinard and anyone else who wants to share. No pressure on anyone who doesn’t!😘

[a-kind-of-merry-war]

'I must say, Spud, you're remarkably well balanced for the offspring of divorce. Quite often being queer is the least of it.'

Deeply relatable quote from The Charioteer (Mary Renault)

[gabriestat]

i bought my copy of the charioteer by mary renault about 2 years ago to a middle aged lady on the internet on a resale app for 3€ and i had to meet her for that and she had me meet her at the entrance of a church from a somewhat posh neighborhood after she attended mass service there. she really sold me soldiers love triangle and sexuality vs love yaoi novel in front of her husband and kid in a church

[oatflatwhite]

tagged by @leothil to share my fav reads from 2024 <3

the green man of eshwood hall by jacob kerr - gorgeous world, lyrical prose, so spooky and beautiful and ethereal. my first 5 star read of the year!

the sunshine court by nora sakavic - i mean, of course this was a fav. i've been WAITIN for this one! turn it up! loved the jeremy jean dual pov, all the little hints towards particularly jeremy's past, i love outsider pov neil my beloved little cockroach. this book series has its critics but i am not one of them amen.

in memoriam by alice winn - books made specifically for tumblr user oatflatwhite tbh. read it in one night, covered it in sticky notes and highlighter for uni, felt forever changed by the experience. honestly the only thing i didn't like about it was how fucking british it was lmao but i suffered through it for the war and also the romance <3

the charioteer by mary renault - a reread, a forever favourite. i could go on and on about this book and indeed i have. for god's sake don't just stand there like st sebastian full of arrows full of your own bloody principles! you know.

our wives under the sea by julia armfield - as a typically non-audiobook person i can't recommend the audiobook for this enough. spooky, sapphic, wonderful, wonderful. as a self-professed deep ocean hater i also still loved it which says a lot about how good it was.

the mars house by natasha pulley - not my favourite of hers but by god do i just adore her writing style. the premise of this book was so outrageous but she managed to carry it off like she always does with it only feeling a little bit ridiculous. i mean, mammoths in space, what more could you want!

tagging @eliever @ifapromise @ww2yaoi @shadowquill17 and @pegasusdrawnchariots <3

[formerstingray]

what research (texts, websites, books, etc) did you do/read to write abt Odysseus and Penelope? I want to begin writing but want to be accurate in clothing, customs, wording, and more so what kind of research did you do?

So, disclaimer, I studied classics and Greek at university which really helped haha, the attempts toward accuracy in the fic are the accumulated product of years.

Re. wording: I think the hardest thing to get right in retelling (Homer fic counts as retelling) is the way of simulating a kind of archaic tone without actually using one and putting off your readers. Too modern sounds ridiculous, and too old-fashioned sounds even more ridiculous. For me, a writer that pulls this off astoundingly well is Mary Renault, so read some of her books if you want to get a sense of how to balance a timeless sense of tone/narrative voice without coming off as silly or just foolishly out of place. I also recommend Mendelsohn's translations of the remarkably talented modern Greek poet C.P. Cavafy.

Re. Clothing and customs: Most of my inspo came from Homer himself. Remember, Homer is technically writing about the Bronze Age (and occasionally adds Bronze Age details like certain helmets or chariots), but he knew virtually nothing about it. So, the values and customs practiced by the characters in the Iliad and Odyssey are far more reflective of the Iron Age he lived in. This gives you, as a reteller, creative license to draw upon both ages. I took inspiration from a wide range of sources spanning from roughly 1300 - 800 BC. Some beginner friendly sources are:

The Cambridge Companion to the Aegean Bronze Age

Bettany Hughes' Helen of Troy (relating ofc to Helen but also Bronze age women)

Bettany Hughes' doc on Minoan culture (available on youtube)

Judith Barringer's Ancient Greek Art and Archeology has an invaluable section on Mycenaean stuff (I have the textbook so if you want pics on anything specific feel free to ask). Because our written records from the time are limited to economic documents, most of Mycenaean life can be gleaned from the physical artefacts, frescoes, and remains of fortified palatial complexes.

https://textileranger.com/2014/10/25/mycenaean-textile-history/ on Bronze age textiles

Body, Dress and Identity in Ancient Greece by Mireille M. Lee

There are endless websites online that are helpful for inspiration. The main thing to keep in mind is that accuracy is something to aim for, but not a rulebook, because even Homer himself was not 'accurate' about the period he was writing about. Good luck, I cannot wait to read what you come up with!

[renaultphile]

What Charm school did Ralph go to?

Been speculating for a while about how Ralph got so skilled with the ladies whilst also researching his religious background.

I wonder if he was roped in to 'recruiting' converts as a child/young man?

For some reason this snippet from 'Father and Son' by Edmund Gosse, describing the origins of his father's Plymouth Brethren chapter, made me think of Ralph:

"A few years before we came, a crew of Cornish fishermen, quite unknown to the villagers, were driven by stress of weather into the haven under the cliff. They landed, and, instead of going to a public-house, they looked about for a room where they could hold a prayer- meeting. They were devout Wesleyans; they had come from the open sea, they were far from home, and they had been starved by lack of their customary religious privileges. As they stood about in the street before their meeting, they challenged the respectable girls who came out to stare at them, with the question, 'Do you love the Lord Jesus, my maid?' Receiving dubious answers, they pressed the inhabitants to come in and pray with them, which several did......They were finely-built young men, with black beards and shining eyes, and I do not question that some flash of sex unconsciously mingled with the curious episode, although their behaviour was in all respects discreet. It was, perhaps, not wholly a coincidence that almost all those particular girls remained unmarried to the end of their lives. After two or three days, the fishermen went off to sea again. They prayed and sailed away, and the girls, who had not even asked their names, never heard of them again. But several of the young women were definitely converted."

[renaultphile]

I find it amazing how relevant those bits are to modern times - more relevant than ever! I also noticed that they have this 'argument' about Laurie getting rescued by Ralph who was in the forces, but the irony is that at Dunkirk, the rescues were done by all kinds of people, ordinary citizens and the military, and during the war the Quakers would have saved many lives! I think it's so clever that Mary has them focus on this rather than finding a way to reconcile Ralph and Andrew's contributions.

“‘Machine’ is journalese....Inexact terms like that are part of the war psychosis. People are never machines, even when they want to be. You have to start somewhere.”

andrew raynes you will always be an anti war king to me, idc what anyone else (ralph) says you will always be famous

[river-gale]

2, 6, 14, and 24 for the reading asks?

HI BLUEJAY!!

2. Did you reread anything? What?

yes. absolutely. i am a serial rereader. as a matter of fact when i really like a book, i express this by reading it twice (or more times) in a row! so please don't ask how many times i've read the mars house and the bacchae this year, the answer to both is 'many'

but what i think this question is really asking is 'did you reread any books this year that you first read in OTHER years, instead of feverishly yesterday afternoon' and the answer to that is also yes! i reread the charioteer, the goblin emperor, and winter's orbit, among others!!

6. Was there anything you meant to read, but never got to?

ugh yes. i just let a hold lapse on navigational entanglements by aliette de bodard, which i was genuinely really looking forward to, i was just never in the right mood :')

14. What books do you want to finish before the year is over?

IT IS TIME for my annual winter solstice the dark is rising reread!! fun and seasonal!! also i have dyke (geology) by sabrina imbler out from the library and i really want to finish it

24. Did you DNF anything? Why?

also yes :') w/me it's usually a right book wrong time situation!! i didn't finish mary renault's the king must die or ann leckie's ancillary justice. i'll give both another shot in 2025, maybe!

[muggleriddle]

Every time my sister goes to the UK, I ask her to bring me a book and that’s how my collection of Mary Renault’s novels is coming together