#this is far from ideal but i couldnt find the better angle i had in mind lol hope u like it tho

[delicatepointofview]

LOUIS TOMLINSON Victorious Festival (August 23rd, 2024)

[gotgifsandmusings]

the way you guys handled the racism part of the podcast was just. awful i couldnt even finish the rest of the podcast bc i was so offput. expected better from you :/

I’m so sorry to hear that, seriously.

I don’t want to hide behind excuses; if our tone or words were hurtful, that’s the way of it, and all I can do is apologize for it and learn why. It was not our intent, and as we said at the start of it, we’re more than open to a dialogue.

I’ve received positive and negative feedback for pretty much every portion of the podcast, however (it’s not like “oh yay, person X agrees so we’re fine!” or anything, of course), and I do think there’s some value in digging into that.

Julia and I tend to be more forgiving of Martin, not that we’re asking anyone else to be. And given the virulence with which we go after D&D, I understand how hypocritical this can come across as, and how frustrating this can be too. But the reason we are is basically two-fold:

One is that we believe there’s a value to his books. Now, there’s also a value to the political discussion on Bill Maher’s show, for example, but yet amazingly, decent political commentary shouldn’t come with a side-serving of Islamophobia. I don’t watch his show, so why should I accept and praise books that don’t handle race well? That don’t handle female sexuality that amazingly, particularly in the cause of wlw scenes? That oftentimes do feel like the sexual violence could be easily toned down, or it’s unnecessarily gendered, or it does fall into unfortunate patterns with things like dead mothers?

The answer to that ties into the second reason, which is that his pattern is getting better. FeastDance felt more thoughtful, felt like there was more of an emphasis on female and other marginalized voices, and it felt like there was great intentionality on Martin’s part to do so. I haven’t read all his interviews; I can’t guess at what’s in his head beyond what his body of work shows us. But you can bet that if he was coming across as someone who was unwilling to reflect and engage with his own shortcomings, I wouldn’t be as invested.

I could be wrong about him. I’ve said this a lot before, but I could be really, really wrong. For now, he has my benefit of the doubt. I’m not asking you to bestow yours.

Back to the problems at hand though, and the value of his books. No, they’re not perfect at all. There’s a lot of issues, and these are issues that a more intersectional author likely wouldn’t have. To be perfectly honest, I think we’re starting to have a tendency of expecting perfection in every area from our media now. While I love that we’re finally in a place where our cultural dialogue is pushing for the change we want, and that storytellers are actually listening (look at like, Clexacon’s mere existence, for instance), I think this can easily become a double edged sword, where you’ve got the fandom raising pitchforks about Steven Universe not doing well with butch representation.

ASOIAF is no SU. It’s a book series written by a white dude in his 60s that spans twenty years. Which is why Julia and I put so much stock into the pattern and direction the books seem to be headed, because our social dialogue shifts so much. Well, depressingly not as much as it should, but I think it’s hard to deny that there is far less tolerance for bullshit in our media, and far more expectations of representational media that are not just once again glorifying the white male lens. 

I don’t believe the book series simplistically does that at all. I find there to be feminist takeaways in Martin’s critique of the patriarchy, and in the way Martin holds up a lens to the bullshit assumptions by this society, which is one uncomfortably reflective of our own history (though certainly not highly accurately so). I wouldn’t say my willingness is to forgive the issues in the books, but more like say, “these are here, these are problems, but I still find this text valuable. I still find the close-POV different and worthwhile.”

I can’t speak for Julia, but I can at least say this is what we had hoped to convey in the podcast. I believe we failed spectacularly. I think our tendency not to plan or overly structure our episodes went heavily against us here. Everything we were saying was in a larger context of “and this is a problem,” but wow we really didn’t make that clear.

What we did was basically raise the problems in turn, talk about what we think his intent was and what its function in the story has been, and then conclude on “this could have been better,” which after you know…like ten minutes of what probably sounds like rationalizations was not exactly going to come across as particularly meaningful. Had we structured more, I think we could have been clearer about “and it did not land.”

Showing Dany as completely unable to comprehend the political situation she was in, and being over her head with the complexity, did *not* require a lack of Essosi POVs, even if we suspect that’s partially why Martin made that choice, for instance.

But of course that didn’t come across, especially when there were some downright flippant things said that we also didn’t clarify. Like Julia mentioning she didn’t want a Dothraki POV, probably because it’d be very close to one as distressingly violent and patriarchal as Vic, which is simply unpleasant to read (and I’m also not sure I agree; I would have loved Dany eating the heart from a POV of someone in the Dosh Khaleen, for instance).

We know each other well, and we know the intent and place we’re coming from when we’re saying something, so I think that led to us not explicating stuff that absolutely needed to be explicated. Again, there’s no excuse. I wish we had planned  and presented everything differently, and it seems pretty obvious now how badly we needed to do that. I’ve learned a lot just in the past day, and all I can do is try to be better.

However, I will say…I suspect there’s also going to be content disagreements in the conclusions Julia and I land on. I’ve seen this with the fandom dialogue about the issues of sexism in the books before, and we’ve often received criticism for defending how he writes the patriarchy and women. Or for how women in the past basically are these pure, idealized victims, or they’re forgotten. We believe that’s to a point most of the time, that being one that provides a fuller picture of Westeros’s bullshit patriarchy (unnammed Mama Martell as an exception because there’s no reason for that at all), but we know it’s a point that doesn’t land.

Then there’s stuff like Arianne’s ‘hypersexuality’, which I simply don’t agree with. In my view, and something Gretchen and I were just discussing, Cersei is far more sexualized (she just tends to view sex from a manipulative standpoint always, instead of deriving pleasure from it, Jaime aside which is clearly unhealthy), and the degree to which this is a problem for a Dornish POV to have these traits (which I think is played up in the fandom) is one where I part ways with a lot of people. I can’t answer how I’d feel about it if I weren’t white, so I do my best to acknowledge that lens whenever I can. But in general, from what I can tell, my lens is also just a bit less Doylist than where some land.

And that’s fine, too. We’re all just engaging with the books how we like to do, and taking from it what’s there for us. There’s no objective takeaways, and not to belabor the point, but I could be so wrong about these books.

Why am I all Doylist with D&D? Because Watsonian analysis is useless in GoT, sure, but because they’ve violated my trust and my benefit of the doubt so thoroughly. I’m not there with Martin, and maybe that’s a problem. I suspect I might even be too Watsonian for my own good because of how engaged I find myself with certain aspects. Half of why we recorded that podcast was to kind of slap ourselves in the face with some Doylist realities, but I do now think the tone ended up being too dismissive, and I don’t feel good about it.

Anyway, this is just a super long-winded apology, as well as a meek explanation I suppose. Certainly not an excuse. This episode was requested a lot for us, probably because of how defensive of the books we get, and I feel like in our attempt to talk every angle of the issue, we ended up just coming across as doubling down on that defense. Moving forward you can bet your ass I’m going to be far more cognizant of this.

What’s funny is, feeling defensive actually wasn’t my experience at all recording it. Hell, even just pulling your asks for it, I was like, “wow this all really sucks,” and found myself getting a good deal more nervous for TWOW coming out. Because…god…I think I might be wrong. I’m back in that place I was in during season 5 where I was wondering if Sansa was going to get raped by LF (obviously a different context than the show), or if we’re not supposed to see Tyrion’s misogyny.

I’m not ready to give up on Martin yet, but I’m sure as hell not asking anyone else to forgive him. And if nothing else, I know now that at least a few takeaways we had were certainly not his intent, but the result of our own engagement and projections onto the media. I think I might be wrong (and where’s TWOW).

[hawberries]

anons

some of these are from like… 2 whole week ago and im Very Sorry. im trying to get better at replying to anons so please send me your question again if you would still like me to answer it!!

(if you just sent me a nice message, i probably read it 8 times and held my face and im very, very grateful and thank you)

Would you be opposed to receiving a fan letter? It would just be a letter addressed to you plus maybe some fan art/gifts!!             

i would actually be super flattered and honoured wft?!?! i do have a PO box if anyone wants to like, send me a postcard i guess!! I’ll do my best to dutifully reply to everyone!

Leonie Li PO Box 3707 Marsfield NSW 2122 Australia

i was gonna ask about where to print coin purses/pencil cases/glass cleaner cloths from when you did haikyuu merch? i couldnt find anything in the faq ;A;

artscow when they have a sale!

It was amazing seeing you today at supanova, you're just as nice in person as I thought you'd be!

Aaaa I bought a bookmark from you on Saturday and it's really pretty! You did a really good job!! ><

thank you so much! i hope you guys enjoyed the conventions <333 thanks for helping to make my experience so great!

Your art is so SWEEET and adorable. I feel so calm whenever I see it idk but  awesome job on all the work you've put into art! It's really inspiring.

I'm sure you hear this all the time but dear, I think you and your art is amazing and beautiful ^w^            

T_____T thank you s much!! that really means a lot to me that people can feel a Good Emotion looking at my art, and i’m super grateful that you took the time to tell me about it! even if it took me. SO LONG. to get back to you. im so sorr

Damen's dimple! I can't believe i never notice before . It's perfect.

i’ve always drawn him with a dimple so when pacat #confirmed it i felt like all of my dreams had been realised…

just wondering why you can't make cp charms? people have before and yours look awesome!

ah it’s like… a small/individual IP so i wanted to clear it with her before i made stuff like charms. she’s just checking rn!

hi i know pacat is unsure about if you can sell capri merch, so i was wondering if - when/if you do get confirmation, you'll sell the charms and art on your site? i love your art so much and id love prints of it, so would you sell them if you got permission? and the charms too? 

please i’ve already got SO much capri merch DRAWN AND READY TO GO, the very instant pacat says she’s okay with it i’m gonna start selling! i’ve got five charm designs and postcard ideals and i really, really want to make a zine!! my fingers are crossed!

im not too optimistic because she said she’d ask her agent and almost all fan merch is Technically Illegal (just some creators are okay with/unaffected by it), but since tcp is a book series with no visual element to the IP it’s possible that selling visuals will be… okay?? WE CAN HOPE. it’s possible that i’ll make the zine anyway and just sell it at cost or something lmao.

is it bad that i want to marry your (or actually damen's) laurent? he is so beautiful *happy sigh*

laurent is perfect from every angle and everyone wants to marry him

Different anon: there's a lot of things I wouldn't consider nsfw myself, but it was explained to me that nsfw is things a parent would freak out about if seen on their kids computer. And like, it doesn't look nsfw to me but I could see where a parent wouldn't be willing to listen to the explanation.

hey my dude! nsfw is less about what is explicit sexual content and more about what someone would get in trouble for viewing at work or wouldn't want minors to see. you're totally free to feel one way or another about the freedom of the human body and depicting it through art is your prerogative, but tagging nsfw is just courteous. 

ok so like… i understand that nsfw is a vague AF term and could mean anything. i do personally use it only to tag artwork that is sexual in nature because of tumblr’s filtering systems. the thing is, i don’t believe kissy fanart is more likely to get someone fired than any other kind of fanart, if viewed at work where you shouldn’t look at fanart. and i guess i just don’t think a drawing of two men cuddling in bed is particularly damaging to kids? i suppose you can read a sexual implication but i honestly only intend to illustrate some tender affection, and it’s not meant to be at all sexual or erotic.

i’m feeling a bit lectured to because i have a separate blog for R18 drawings that is appropriately flagged and VERY thoroughly tagged, and i am dutifully tagging for nudity, so it’s not like i’m being irresponsible or discourteous. and I can’t shake the feeling that if I was drawing a heterosexual relationship with the same level of intimacy, i wouldn’t be getting these admonishments.

that said, i will definitely try to consider more thoroughly how other people might see my work in the future, and maybe be a little more discerning about which works get put on this blog. i’m trying to keep this blog 15+, so i don’t intend to put ANY works that require a nsfw tag here at all, but i do get that the kind of intimacy i’m putting out might ping the same squicks that actual sex does.

Your art is so beautiful and I've seen a lot of thing for 'Captive Prince' but I've never heard of it before, may I ask what that is.

what's captain prince?

it’s an extremely R18 fantasy-historical romance trilogy by queer australian author c. s. pacat! it’s got some heavy themes (the handling of it ranges from good to tolerable, imo – for a point of reference, it does not get worse than Game of Thrones and is far less indulgent) and it definitely won’t be to everyone’s tastes, but i really enjoyed the romance in it so much. damen and laurent are in love